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Speaker 1: The first time around, and actually during his campaign, this

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Speaker 1: moniker of fake news was so corrosive.

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Speaker 2: I really think that was one of the biggest catalysts

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Speaker 2: to kind of where we are today, because when you

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Speaker 2: can't trust the news, when you can't trust what you're

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Speaker 2: reading or what you're watching anymore, or even if you

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Speaker 2: do trust it, but there is just a little birdy

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Speaker 2: in the back of your head that says, maybe this

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Speaker 2: isn't fully right or fully accurate, because Donald Trump says

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Speaker 2: it's not.

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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric, and this is next question.

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Speaker 1: Hi everyone. Well, if you're not already, you may soon

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Speaker 1: become one of the nearly six million followers of Aaron Parness,

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Speaker 1: a viral news aggregator his words in the substack slash

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Speaker 1: TikTok universe. And by the way, I've recently joined the

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Speaker 1: substack universe myself, so you might want to check that out.

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Speaker 1: Aaron's school is to take on legacy media. But the

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Speaker 1: question is how and why? So here to tell me

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Speaker 1: all about that is Aaron Parnis himself.

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Speaker 3: Hi erin, Hi, how are you good? How are you

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Speaker 3: so nice to meet you?

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Speaker 2: Like Wise, likewise super excited for this.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I know you already, Erin, just because

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Speaker 1: I watch you all the time, and I'm like, oh, hi, Eron,

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Speaker 1: do you feel like that with people online too?

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Speaker 2: I do. It's very weird. It's like you wrote these

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Speaker 2: parasocial relationships and then you meet them in person or

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Speaker 2: over zoom, and it's like it's like you've known them

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Speaker 2: for years.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really fun. Well, I'm excited to talk to you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for doing this, Thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for having me absolutely well. I wanted to start by

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Speaker 1: asking you a little bit about yourself. Erin for tim like,

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Speaker 1: we're having coffee, we've never met before. Tell me your

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Speaker 1: story because you're a brainiac, and you have been since

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Speaker 1: you were very young, right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I've had a very unique kind of upbringing.

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Speaker 2: My story really starts actually back when I was twelve

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Speaker 2: years old. At the time, I wanted to be a lawyer,

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Speaker 2: and I didn't know what being a lawyer really meant.

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Speaker 2: So my dad actually sat me down in front of

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Speaker 2: the TV and told me to watch at the time,

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Speaker 2: the case Cy Anthony Trial, which was blowing up all

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Speaker 2: over Florida and.

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Speaker 3: Really lovely content for a twelve year old.

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Speaker 2: By the way, you would think, right. I mean, I

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Speaker 2: grew up in a Ukrainian household, so parenting, that's parenting.

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Speaker 2: But so anyway, so she sat me down and he

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Speaker 2: was like, just watch opening statements and you may like this.

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Speaker 2: I ended up sitting myself for thirty one days watching

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Speaker 2: start to finish the entire trial and kind of fell

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Speaker 2: in love with the way the attorneys moved around the

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Speaker 2: courtroom and advocated for either her side. And that moment

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Speaker 2: there made me want to go to law school and

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Speaker 2: made me want to go in an expedited fashion.

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Speaker 1: So yes, I'll say expedited. You went to college at fourteen? Right,

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Speaker 1: This is, by the way, growing up in Boca Raton, Florida.

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Speaker 3: Did you have siblings?

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Speaker 2: By the way, I have six siblings. Oh my god,

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Speaker 2: I know it. Yes, I am the oldest. I have

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Speaker 2: younger siblings who I love very close to. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I grew up in Bokertone. Started college when I was

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Speaker 2: fourteen in this like dual enrollment hybrid program.

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Speaker 3: Where was that? By the way, it's.

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Speaker 2: Called Florida Atlantic University.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I've heard of that because I used to

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Speaker 3: live in Miami.

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Speaker 2: Oh amazing. Yeah, So it's about one hundred kids do

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Speaker 2: it a year. We instead of taking high school classes,

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Speaker 2: you take college classes with college students, and it kind

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Speaker 2: of counts for both high school and college credit. And

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Speaker 2: so I kind of overloaded. Graduated with my BA when

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Speaker 2: I was eighteen, actually a week before technically graduating high school.

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Speaker 2: And I always knew I wanted to be a lawyer

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Speaker 2: and wanted to go to law school, and so I

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Speaker 2: went straight to George Washington University in Washington, DC, graduated

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Speaker 2: three years later, and then quit practicing law a few

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Speaker 2: years after that.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about that pivot for you professionally. Why

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Speaker 1: did you decide after watching the Casey Anthony Trail for

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Speaker 1: thirty one days and graduating from GW Law School at

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Speaker 1: the tender age of twenty one, what changed your mind?

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Speaker 1: Why did you decide suddenly I don't really want to

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Speaker 1: be a lawyer.

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Speaker 2: Well, so I realized that being a lawyer wasn't necessarily

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Speaker 2: being in a court room every day. I think everyone

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Speaker 2: on TV really makes it like this glamorous lifestyle where

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Speaker 2: you're fighting for these big issues and you're in front

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Speaker 2: of the Supreme Court or you're in front of a

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Speaker 2: jury every day. And yeah, I had my fair share

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Speaker 2: of time in court, but it wasn't an everyday kind

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Speaker 2: of experience. I mean, my dream, truly was to be

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Speaker 2: a public defender for the rest of my life and

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Speaker 2: just do that. But public defenders, unfortunately in our country,

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Speaker 2: just don't make a livable wage in many areas, and

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Speaker 2: I believe at the time in Miami, public defenders were

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Speaker 2: making about thirty six thousand dollars a year to start,

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Speaker 2: and in Miami you can't live off of that. You

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Speaker 2: just truly can't. So I had to go and I

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Speaker 2: had massive student debt, so I had to go into

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Speaker 2: private practice, and it just wasn't the lifestyle that I

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Speaker 2: wanted to live. And so it wasn't necessarily that I

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Speaker 2: didn't want to be a lawyer. It's just that I

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Speaker 2: found a different avenue to advocate for the issues and

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Speaker 2: the people that I believe in.

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Speaker 1: You really had this, I guess, dramatic or significant life change.

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Speaker 1: Let's go back to twenty sixteen. You're volunteering for the

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Speaker 1: Trump campaign. Back then, how old were you then? My

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Speaker 1: maths is not good, Aaron.

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Speaker 2: So at sixteen seventeen years old?

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Speaker 3: So what appealed to you about Donald Trump at the time?

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Speaker 2: So I think it was just different. And I tell

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Speaker 2: everyone my first experience, my first foray into politics was

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump. Just like many people my age, I don't

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Speaker 2: remember the Obama years, I don't remember the Bush years.

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Speaker 2: I remember the twenty fifteen twenty sixteen election cycle. And

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Speaker 2: during that election cycle, I really knew nothing different other

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Speaker 2: than Donald Trump. My dad had known him in the past,

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Speaker 2: being in the same circles in Miami, and I think

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Speaker 2: I believe he actually worked for Donald Trump's dad in

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Speaker 2: New York as one of his first jobs. And so

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Speaker 2: I just what appealed to me was that he was

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Speaker 2: just a different kind of beast in this political realm,

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Speaker 2: and he just kind of told it like it was

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Speaker 2: and he was just interesting. And so I personally, I

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Speaker 2: volunteered very kind of haphazardly, like I was still in

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Speaker 2: school and like really wasn't doing much for the campaign,

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Speaker 2: if anything at all, maybe knocked a door to but

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Speaker 2: ultimately didn't really realize what it was like or what

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Speaker 2: it meant to be a quote unquote Trump supporter or

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Speaker 2: even a Republican until love. Yeah, so I always identified

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Speaker 2: at the time. I was like, yeah, I'm a Republican,

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Speaker 2: but I didn't know what Republicans stood for.

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Speaker 1: And as such a smart kid, I'm surprised that you

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Speaker 1: sort of blindly followed him because he was different or

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Speaker 1: charismatic or unfiltered. That just doesn't sound like the Aaron

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Speaker 1: Parness I've come to know in the last five minutes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you're right. But when you grow up

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Speaker 2: in a house and all that's hon is Fox News,

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Speaker 2: and that's all you're watching, and that's all you're kind

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Speaker 2: of absorbing, And then when you're talking in family discussions,

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Speaker 2: all you're absorbing is Donald Trump, and when you're with

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Speaker 2: family friends, all you're absorbing is Donald Trump, you don't

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Speaker 2: know any better. And I never really had something about

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Speaker 2: me that people have come to realize that I'm a

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Speaker 2: very stubborn person. So when people kind of pushed back

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Speaker 2: on me in college, when my friends were like, hey,

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Speaker 2: what are you doing? What are you thinking? Every time

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Speaker 2: they did that, I kind of dugged my heels in

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Speaker 2: further as just being stubborn myself. So it really was

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Speaker 2: a fault of mine for not really kind of doing

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Speaker 2: my own research and understanding really what was happening. And

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Speaker 2: at the time, I mean, when you think about it,

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Speaker 2: when you look back at the twenty sixteen campaign and

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Speaker 2: you look from start to finish Donald Trump's campaign, I

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Speaker 2: don't know that you can really tell me a policy

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Speaker 2: proposal or two that he really had. He just kind

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Speaker 2: of throughout these big ideas that he's going to make

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Speaker 2: America great again and he's going to do all these

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Speaker 2: great things for the country, and that resonated, I guess

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Speaker 2: with my sixteen year old self. But when I really

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Speaker 2: learned about his policy agenda when he became president kind

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Speaker 2: of shifted dramatically.

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Speaker 1: And well before we talk about that shift, I'm curious

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Speaker 1: what was it like being involved in the Trump campaign. Adriana,

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Speaker 1: who produced this interview, had an interesting question about sort

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Speaker 1: of the bro culture, I guess, the nascent manosphere, if

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Speaker 1: you will, that was starting to bubble up I think

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Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen. Can you talk about that and what

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Speaker 1: some of your fellow volunteers were like and why they

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Speaker 1: were attracted to Donald Trump.

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Speaker 2: That was a long time ago. I mean, like I said,

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Speaker 2: truth be told, I don't really remember much from that time,

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Speaker 2: but b I didn't really I wasn't really ingrained in

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Speaker 2: the campaign that much. I think there was one article

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Speaker 2: that was written that I was a volunteer on the campaign,

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Speaker 2: but that just meant like I knocked a few doors.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you weren't really that invested, but you liked him,

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Speaker 1: and you liked you preferred him to Hillary Clinton. And

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Speaker 1: you say it's really because Fox News was playing twenty

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Speaker 1: four to seven in your house and your dad, who

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Speaker 1: I'll talk about with you in a moment. But what

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Speaker 1: did you have against Hillary Clinton?

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Speaker 2: I had nothing against Hillary Clinton. It wasn't an anti Hillary.

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Speaker 2: It was more of a pro Trump, right. I had

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Speaker 2: nothing against her, And looking back on it, if my

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Speaker 2: political personal views definitely aligned with her is a lot

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Speaker 2: more so, it was nothing against her at all.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about your dad. So your dad had a

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Speaker 1: huge influence on you, and God, talk about a fascinating backstory.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about him and what happened to him and

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Speaker 1: how it contributed to your political ideological transformation. That sounded

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Speaker 1: very aeradite, didn't it?

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Speaker 2: I little, but it makes sense. I mean, so, my

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Speaker 2: dad wasn't really ever involved in politics growing up. I

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Speaker 2: remember the first time we ever went to a political

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Speaker 2: event was the twenty twelve election night party, and my

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Speaker 2: dad and my family were red for a Republican for

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Speaker 2: Mitt Romney, and you had to wear the wear the

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Speaker 2: colors of either red or blue. I ended up choosing

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Speaker 2: to wear orange because I didn't want to identify with

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Speaker 2: either side. But other than that, we didn't really do

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Speaker 2: politics at all, and it wasn't until Trump announced in

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Speaker 2: twenty fifteen. About a month or so later, he had

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Speaker 2: a rally in Durell, Florida, and my dad took me

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Speaker 2: there and was able to I don't know how, but

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Speaker 2: we got some kind of pass and we met Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump and kind of one of those step and repeat

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Speaker 2: photo lines, and about one hundred of us met him,

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Speaker 2: and then we went to the rally, and then I

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Speaker 2: thought that was the end of it, But then Fox

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Speaker 2: News continued to play in the house. Then my dad

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Speaker 2: continued to kind of get closer and closer to the

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Speaker 2: Trump orbit. He became buddy buddy with Rudy Giuliani. He

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Speaker 2: ended up, I believe, co hosting or helping host some

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Speaker 2: type of fundraiser for Donald Trump after the Access Hollywood

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Speaker 2: tape came out in South Florida, and just became very

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Speaker 2: very close to the craziness within MAGA. But I don't

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Speaker 2: even to this day know the true extent of it all.

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Speaker 1: And wasn't he involved in trying to dig up dirt

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Speaker 1: about Hunter Biden and Ukraine.

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Speaker 2: He was, but that was post Trump's victory, that really

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Speaker 2: whole effort from what I understand, Like I said, I

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Speaker 2: don't know everything, but from what I understand, that didn't

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Speaker 2: really start happening until twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, when he

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Speaker 2: and Rudy became closer. But during the twenty sixteen campaign,

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Speaker 2: I don't think they were discussing that up.

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Speaker 1: But after they became close. During Trump's first term, there

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Speaker 1: were a lot of illegal shenanigans going on right.

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Speaker 2: Erin from what I can see, there were a lot

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Speaker 2: of shenanigans.

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Speaker 3: Going on that I mean, he eventually went to prison

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Speaker 3: your father, right.

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Speaker 2: He did, But he went to prison. It was unrelated

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Speaker 2: to anything related to the Rudy Hunter Biden stuff.

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Speaker 3: What did he go to prison for?

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Speaker 2: So he went to prison for defrauding a number of

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Speaker 2: investors in a personal company that he was running, and

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Speaker 2: then also for he was convicted of funneling about a

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Speaker 2: half a million dollars from this Russian man into a

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Speaker 2: US superPAC But that was during the twenty sixteen campaign.

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Speaker 2: I believe I don't really know that the true detail

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Speaker 2: clip them.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so this is fascinating to me, Aaron, You're so smart,

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Speaker 1: You've got a law degree. Your dad gets in trouble,

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Speaker 1: he goes to prison, and yet you're kind of fuzzy

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Speaker 1: on the details.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because I between you and me, I mean, I

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Speaker 2: think anyone who goes through something like that, I mean,

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Speaker 2: I say, October ten, twenty nineteen, the day he was arrested,

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Speaker 2: was one of the worst days in my life because

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Speaker 2: it truly was. It's a time period where I have

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Speaker 2: worked my hardest to kind of black out in a

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Speaker 2: way as a coping mechanism. It fractured my family, It

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Speaker 2: changed my life completely, and really we felt the weight

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Speaker 2: of the federal government on our shoulders for several months

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Speaker 2: over a year, and it was a very difficult time. So, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it is very clumsy, and it's intentionally fuzzy because I

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Speaker 2: don't want to take myself back there if I don't

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Speaker 2: have to.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting, and I think, on a lot of levels,

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Speaker 1: very understandable. So what is your relationship like with your

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Speaker 1: dad today?

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Speaker 2: We have a good relationship, I mean, like a father

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Speaker 2: and a son. I mean, it's definitely not as close

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Speaker 2: as it used to be. I think we have went

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Speaker 2: through our own trials and tribulations and it's been tough.

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Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, he's my dad

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Speaker 2: and I love him for being my dad, and that's

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Speaker 2: what I want him to be, just a regular playing dad.

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Speaker 1: And I'm putting a button on this because it sounds

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Speaker 1: like this is not easy to talk about and dredges

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Speaker 1: up a lot of painful memories for you. But how

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Speaker 1: does he feel about Rudy Giuliani and Donald Trump and

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Speaker 1: the whole MAGA movement given what he's been through? Obviously,

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Speaker 1: you said his prison time was not related to that,

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Speaker 1: but I'm sure there was a lot of negative fallout

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Speaker 1: from his political dealings. So where is he right now

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Speaker 1: in his head about all of this?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think he really felt like they

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Speaker 2: turned their backs on him, right that he did all

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Speaker 2: this stuff for them, He helped them with the Hunter

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Speaker 2: Biden stuff. He went out of his way and put

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Speaker 2: his neck out on the line for them, and then

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Speaker 2: the moment that he got in trouble, they kind of

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Speaker 2: turned their back on him, and I think he really

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Speaker 2: took it personally He's someone who's very kind of emotionally emotional,

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Speaker 2: and so the moment they kind of turned against him

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Speaker 2: was I remember about twelve days after he was arrested,

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Speaker 2: he kind of called and he was like, I'm done,

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Speaker 2: Like I'm not going back, Like I'm not letting them

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Speaker 2: drag me back into that world.

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Speaker 3: Hi.

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Speaker 1: Everyone, it's Katie Couric. You know I'm always on the

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Speaker 1: go between running my media company, hosting my podcast, and

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Speaker 1: of course covering the news, and I know that to

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Speaker 1: keep doing what I love, I need to start caring

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Speaker 1: for what gets.

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Speaker 3: Me there, my feet.

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Speaker 1: That's why I decided to try the Good Feet stores

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Speaker 1: So you witnessed all this, how did it feed into

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Speaker 1: your change of heart about Donald Trump being kind of

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Speaker 1: cool and different and speaking his mind to Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: might not be so good for the country. And how

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Speaker 1: much was it influenced by what your dad experienced, or

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Speaker 1: simply by you becoming a more informed citizen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's interesting. A lot of people think that

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Speaker 2: my dad got arrested and I switched parties a day after.

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Speaker 2: That's not how it happened. I actually was in law

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Speaker 2: school at the time, in my third year, but over

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Speaker 2: the first two years prior, I really started to shift personally.

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Speaker 2: I saw thing I really kind of experienced a political

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Speaker 2: awakening by going through day to day life, Like for example,

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Speaker 2: I had a friend who was doing a Mericorp in

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Speaker 2: Miami when I was a summer associate there, and I

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Speaker 2: went to her school and just saw the disparities between

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Speaker 2: what the children in her school had and what I

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Speaker 2: had growing up. And in that moment, I was like, well,

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Speaker 2: one party wants to make sure these kids have equal

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Speaker 2: access to education. The other party doesn't. Right. So I

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Speaker 2: had lived experiences like those, completely unrelated to my dad

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Speaker 2: that really began to move me away from Donald Trump,

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Speaker 2: and truth be told, being in those circles made me uncomfortable.

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Speaker 2: I just never really fit in to the quote unquote

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Speaker 2: maga circles. I never talked like them, I never acted

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Speaker 2: like them. I just I didn't enjoy being in those rooms.

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Speaker 2: And so while I stood by my dad while he

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Speaker 2: was in those circles and just kind of kept quiet

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Speaker 2: because I wanted to be a lawyer, right and I

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Speaker 2: didn't really want to be in this political circle. I'd

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Speaker 2: be in that shift a long time before he was arrested.

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Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about being in those circles.

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Speaker 1: What was it that made you uncomfortable?

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Speaker 2: Aeron seem like a lot of people in those circles.

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Speaker 2: Number One, what really got me uncomfortable was the language

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Speaker 2: they used. I just I don't want to say I'm

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Speaker 2: like more proper, but like I don't curse in my

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Speaker 2: day to day life, like I don't demonize women, and

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Speaker 2: a lot of like the older men would do that,

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Speaker 2: and it was very uncomfortable, just very like I didn't

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Speaker 2: like it felt like kind of gross. Sometimes walking out

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Speaker 2: of those rooms, everything was very heavy on, like drinking

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Speaker 2: or smoking cigars. It was very like bro I felt

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Speaker 2: like I was in a frat house with people over

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Speaker 2: the age of fifty, and that to me, just like

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Speaker 2: never vibed. I just I didn't like it at all.

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Speaker 1: So you witnessed sexism, did you hear much racism in

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Speaker 1: those circles. I'm just curious.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I never heard like blatant racism, but there

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Speaker 2: are plenty of microaggressions. I mean, you can tell the

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Speaker 2: underlying thoughts and beliefs of a number of these people

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Speaker 2: for sure.

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Speaker 1: Well, you have a fascinating backstory. Thank you for spending

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Speaker 1: some time sharing it with me. So you decided to

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Speaker 1: not be a lawyer, and that you couldn't really earn

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Speaker 1: a living in some of these jobs. So what flipped

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Speaker 1: the switch for you to say, I want to help

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Speaker 1: people understand the world. I want to be a communicator.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So it was actually February of twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 2: I was about a year and a half out of

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Speaker 2: law school at the time, and when in Russia and

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Speaker 2: nade the Ukraine, and at the time I had family

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Speaker 2: in Ukraine and Kiev on the ground. I had an uncle,

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Speaker 2: a cousin, and an aunt, and I would hear from

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Speaker 2: them what they would be seeing outside of their front window.

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Speaker 2: Right they'd see tanks rolling down the streets, planes overhead.

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Speaker 2: And then I'd watch mainstream media or cable news here

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Speaker 2: in the United States, and I really saw a disparity

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Speaker 2: in the coverage and mainly in just how fast cable

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Speaker 2: news got the news to us here in the United States.

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Speaker 2: I would hear things from my uncle and then an

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Speaker 2: hour and a half later, I'd hear it on CNN,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, well, I think there's a vacuum

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Speaker 2: here that could be filled. I think that what cable

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Speaker 2: news is doing isn't necessarily as good of a job

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Speaker 2: as it should be. And so I just pulled out

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Speaker 2: my phone and just started sharing on TikTok what my

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Speaker 2: uncle and my family was sharing with me on the ground.

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Speaker 2: And within about a week I had a million followers

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Speaker 2: who were now interested in what was happening in Ukraine

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Speaker 2: and didn't many of them didn't even know where Ukraine

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Speaker 2: was on a map, but they were interested in what

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Speaker 2: was happening on the ground. And I think in that

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Speaker 2: moment I realized, Hey, there's something here. I can do

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Speaker 2: this not just about Ukraine, but I can really start

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Speaker 2: kind of educating folks about other topics as well. And

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Speaker 2: that didn't really happen until later on, but I spent

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Speaker 2: about six months every day posting ten to fifteen times

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Speaker 2: about Ukraine and what was happening when Russia was invading.

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Speaker 1: Did you ever feel any trepidation earon that as much

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Speaker 1: as your uncle was experiencing something firsthand. You know, as

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Speaker 1: an old school journalist, of course, there are things like

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Speaker 1: you know, vetting, double sourcing, making sh sure what you're

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Speaker 1: sharing with consumers is accurate. Did you ever feel like, Gosh,

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Speaker 1: I may need to understand the situation more than simply

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Speaker 1: my uncle's eyewitness account.

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Speaker 2: For sure. And I think, especially at the beginning, there

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Speaker 2: were times where I would actually hear something from on

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Speaker 2: the ground, like, for example, I remember hearing that President

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Speaker 2: Zelenski there was a story where President Zelensky was either

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Speaker 2: asked to leave Kiev out of fears for his safety

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Speaker 2: or something like that. It was like a bombshell story,

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Speaker 2: and I heard it because Ukrainian media were kind of

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Speaker 2: talking about it from family. And then I was like, well,

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Speaker 2: I can't necessarily report this. This kind of seems like

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Speaker 2: a crazy story to talk about without any corroboration. An

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Speaker 2: hour later, CNN reported and then I reported it. But

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Speaker 2: I think over time I grew more comfortable in kind

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Speaker 2: of doing my own kind of due diligence and doing

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Speaker 2: my own research and doing my own bedding, and it

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Speaker 2: got to the point where I've kind of established my

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Speaker 2: own kind of set of ethics that I have for

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Speaker 2: anything that I put out was or that. As a lawyer,

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Speaker 2: I would never rely in a brief to a federal

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Speaker 2: to a judge, I would get disbarred. I would never

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Speaker 2: put something out on my social media that could get

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Speaker 2: me disbarred in a court room. So it's not necessarily

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Speaker 2: the traditional journalistic ethics, but kind of take those legal

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Speaker 2: ethics and really apply them to what I do.

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Speaker 1: And there's transparency in terms of telling your audience if

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Speaker 1: something hasn't been corroborated yet. I mean, you're very honest

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Speaker 1: about that, and so they understand that something may need

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Speaker 1: to be re reported or adjusted to events that may occur.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, for sure. And there are definitely times where

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Speaker 2: I get things wrong, and there have been, and there

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Speaker 2: are times where stories have had to be kind of

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Speaker 2: not necessarily edited but recanted and I repost and I say, listen,

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Speaker 2: this was wrong and here's why it was wrong. And

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Speaker 2: I think that all builds to kind of the authenticity

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Speaker 2: of the platform that I built. I'm not afraid to

437
00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 2: say when I'm wrong or when a news report that

438
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,560
Speaker 2: I kind of share ends up being recantid for example,

439
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,159
Speaker 2: which has happened a number of times.

440
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,120
Speaker 1: Right, Well, let's talk about this transition a little bit

441
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,479
Speaker 1: more and about legacy media, because I know you go

442
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,639
Speaker 1: on a tear about legacy media and it sometimes hurts

443
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,119
Speaker 1: my feelings. I'm totally getting, but I think there's a

444
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 1: lot of things wrong with legacy media myself. But I

445
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:24,719
Speaker 1: want to ask you about something you wrote on your substack.

446
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 1: You said, for years, legacy media outlets have painted Donald

447
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 1: Trump as a threat to our way of life. But

448
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 1: once he won, they changed their tunes. Suddenly he wasn't

449
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,639
Speaker 1: a danger to democracy anymore. It was as if a

450
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:41,120
Speaker 1: switch flipped and legacy media became concerned about Trump's potential

451
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:45,280
Speaker 1: to impact their financial interests. And that's exactly why my

452
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 1: platform has seen such rapid growth since the election. All Right,

453
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,159
Speaker 1: So let's take a look at what you said that

454
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 1: and investigated.

455
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 3: A little bit further.

456
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 1: Tell me a little more about what you mean and

457
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,440
Speaker 1: why you think legacy media has really lost the room,

458
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 1: so to speak.

459
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,600
Speaker 2: Well, I think legacy media or media generally, has lost

460
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:10,199
Speaker 2: started losing the room the moment they started putting money first.

461
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 2: And I think it goes back to a long time ago.

462
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,360
Speaker 2: It's not recent. It's when the Washington Post first went

463
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 2: from a free paper to one that you have to

464
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,440
Speaker 2: pay ten cents for and then thirty cents for. Now

465
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 2: you have to pay several dollars a month for. When

466
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,719
Speaker 2: you put money above the stories and you put stories

467
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,120
Speaker 2: behind a paywall, and you look to your bottom kind

468
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 2: of line more than you do to what you're reporting,

469
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,159
Speaker 2: I think you lose trust in the viewers and the

470
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 2: viewers that you're kind of trying to reach.

471
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,639
Speaker 1: But newspapers have charged for a very long time, errand

472
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:45,479
Speaker 1: and they did maintain the trust of their readers, and

473
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 1: broadcast news really maintained the trust of their viewers. I mean,

474
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 1: they do have to pay their employees, and journalists have

475
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,719
Speaker 1: to make a living, and they can't necessarily do it

476
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 1: through advertising alone. I feel like something more significant and

477
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: nefarious has happened actually in recent weeks in terms of

478
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,440
Speaker 1: the trust factor. So you're saying news should be free,

479
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 1: which is a very difficult model. I have to be

480
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,120
Speaker 1: honest and not really tenable.

481
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 2: I tend to agree with you, and I think there

482
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 2: needs to be a solution. I mean, my dream is

483
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 2: for all news to be free. I realize that that's

484
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 2: not necessarily always realistic, but I do take your point

485
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 2: in that, especially recently, especially over the past I guess

486
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 2: since November, but really since twenty sixteen, since Trump first ran,

487
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 2: I mean, the moment he started attacking the press as

488
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 2: the enemy of the people. I really think we have

489
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 2: seen kind of a change in the tune of the press.

490
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 2: But it really wasn't until I guess the past six

491
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 2: months where he actually went after the press legally that

492
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 2: we've really seen a dramatic shift.

493
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,640
Speaker 1: I think talk about those two phases erin because I'm

494
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: so fascinated by this as well. I think that earworm

495
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: that he incorporated early in his administration, the first time around,

496
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 1: and actually during his campaign, this moniker of fake news, yeah,

497
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:10,120
Speaker 1: was so corrosive to media because it instilled this lack

498
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 1: of trustworthiness and this dismissiveness of anything that was reported

499
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: about Donald Trump that was negative. But it was incredibly effective,

500
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: wasn't it.

501
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 2: It was? It was I mean, it turned a large

502
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 2: swath of people away from cable news, away from even

503
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 2: reading anymore, and it really hurt our democracy tremendously. I

504
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 2: really think that was one of the biggest catalysts to

505
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 2: kind of where we are today, because when you can't

506
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 2: trust the news, when you can't trust what you're reading

507
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 2: or what you're watching anymore, or even if you do

508
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 2: trust it, but there is just a little bird in

509
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 2: the back of your head that says, maybe this isn't

510
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 2: fully right or fully accurate, because Donald Trump says it's not.

511
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,679
Speaker 1: And I think that's also contributed to the rise of

512
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: right wing media, because he only says the journalists he

513
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 1: claims are enemies of the people, or the news that

514
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: he claims is fake is only content that is critical

515
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 1: of him, So people get an extremely warped perspective. And

516
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: the way he's taken on journalists and these sort of

517
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,640
Speaker 1: oval office gaggles, whether you're talking about Caitlin Collins and

518
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 1: insulting her Peter Alexander, I couldn't believe how he unleashed

519
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 1: on Peter Alexander, who's not only an incredibly nice person

520
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 1: but a really experienced, intelligent reporter, was just honestly appalling

521
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: to me. And so I think he has really instilled

522
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 1: this disdain, honestly for media that is not lauding him

523
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 1: or celebrating him. And then, as you mentioned, Phase two

524
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,640
Speaker 1: was a whole new level where he was actually suing

525
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: these media outlets for quote unquote offenses that most experts

526
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 1: say could have been defended in a court of law,

527
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 1: starting with ABC News and George Stephanopolis and then moving

528
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: on to other news organizations and most recently CBS Paramount

529
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:16,199
Speaker 1: in sixty minutes. So, talk about that and how you

530
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: felt as a lawyer. I'm not a lawyer. My late

531
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: husband was a lawyer, so I used to talk to

532
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: him about all this stuff. But how you have felt

533
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: about this new level that we're seeing Donald Trump unleash

534
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 1: on traditional journalism.

535
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean listen as a lawyer, and it's not

536
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 2: just traditional journalism, it's on law firms as well well.

537
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 3: Yes, of course, right.

538
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 2: And as a lawyer in law school and just in practice,

539
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 2: you're taught to kind of be a zealous advocate for

540
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 2: your client, for the issues that you're fighting for. If

541
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 2: these cable news shows, these legacy media companies don't fight

542
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 2: back and don't have lawyers who are willing to fight back,

543
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 2: what does that say for when you're going to need

544
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 2: someone to fight for you. It's slowly kind of eroding

545
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 2: at the trust of the legal profession. In my opinion,

546
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 2: it's slowly eroding at the trust of the media apparatus

547
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 2: in our country. And I will say it's a very

548
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 2: dangerous path that we're on. I tell everyone that Donald

549
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 2: Trump two point zero is so much more dangerous than

550
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 2: Donald Trump one point oh for the simple reason that

551
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 2: he's not facing reelection. He has complete immunity for any

552
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 2: official acts by the Supreme Court. He doesn't need to

553
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 2: win another race in four years. He doesn't really care

554
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 2: what happens on a day to day, and he's willing

555
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 2: to push kind of the bounds of the United States Constitution,

556
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 2: the bounds of the law, to see what he can do,

557
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 2: how far he really can go. And when you capitulate

558
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 2: to that, when you will allow him to win in

559
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,719
Speaker 2: a case that probably is winnable for yourself. I mean,

560
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 2: ABC News could have won that case, CBS News can

561
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 2: win this case. If they capitulate to him, it just

562
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 2: gives him permission to do it again and even worse.

563
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 2: And I think that is a dangerous part. Every time

564
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 2: someone folds and doesn't fight back, he's emboldened to do more.

565
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 2: And we're seeing it time and time again.

566
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: And clearly with the CBS situation. It is a quid

567
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 1: pro quo for the Paramount Skydance merger, and it's really

568
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: all about money and people not wanting to stop this merger,

569
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: specifically Sherry Redstone. And there used to be such a

570
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: strong division between these corporations who own these media companies.

571
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: When I was at NBC, I would never listen to

572
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 1: someone at GE who owned us at the time, telling

573
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: me what to do or how to do an interview

574
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: or criticizing something I did. I mean, I was in

575
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 1: a position of power because I was on a very

576
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: successful show, and I basically told them to pound sand

577
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 1: and stay in their lane, I mean, which is not

578
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: necessarily a position a lot of journalists might find themselves in.

579
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: So now you have a lot of anticipatory obedience on

580
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: the part of these journalists who are afraid to come

581
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 1: down too hard. And indeed, we've seen ABC used executives

582
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: telling the people on the view to tone it down.

583
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: We've seen other examples of executives, corporate executives telling their

584
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 1: journalists to take it easy. W NET I read took

585
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: out a part of a documentary where somebody was very

586
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 1: critical of Donald Trump. Do you think people appreciate how

587
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: fed up and dangerous this is.

588
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 2: No, I don't. I don't think people, especially people my age,

589
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 2: don't realize it because we've never lived through something like this.

590
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 2: A lot of I guess my parents' generation may appreciate

591
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,959
Speaker 2: it a little more because they're coming from My parents

592
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 2: immigrated over from the Soviet Union, right, This was more

593
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 2: common in Russia. This isn't common in the United States

594
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 2: of America. People my age don't appreciate it, and they

595
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 2: won't appreciate it until it packs them directly. And I

596
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 2: think that's a very dangerous part in all of this.

597
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 1: Do you think a lot of Americans don't understand basic civics?

598
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 2: I do, and it's not their fault. I think it's

599
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 2: the fault of our education system. I think the fact

600
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 2: that we don't have mandatory Civics education in every school

601
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,959
Speaker 2: across the country is a problem. I think that we

602
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 2: need a baseline Civics curriculum. But the fact is, the

603
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,239
Speaker 2: fact of the matter is we're in a situation now

604
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 2: where Oklahoma is teaching is forcing its students to learn

605
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 2: about election denihalism in the twenty twenty election, and that's

606
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 2: to them, that's civics to them, and that is dangerous.

607
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 2: So if we don't have that baseline curriculum, it's it's

608
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 2: going to be bad.

609
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: Hi everyone, it's me Kittie Couric. You know, if you've

610
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: been following me on social media, you know I love

611
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: to cook, or at least try, especially alongside some of

612
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Speaker 1: my favorite chefs and foodies like Bennie Blanco, Jake Cohen

613
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: and Lighty Hoyke, Alison Roman and Ininagarten. So I started

614
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Speaker 1: a free newsletter called good Taste to share recipes, tips

615
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Speaker 1: and kitchen mustaves. Just sign up at Katie Couric dot

616
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Speaker 1: com slash good Taste. That's k A t I E

617
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: C O U r I c dot com slash good Taste.

618
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: I promised your taste buds will be happy you did.

619
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about a recent tear you

620
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 1: went on Aaron about Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson's book,

621
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: accusing them of being part of a coordinated effort to

622
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 1: smear Joe Biden. Why don't you think that's a legitimate

623
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: news story? And you know I interviewed Jake and Alex.

624
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: I've known Jake Tapper for a long time. You know,

625
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: we're kind of contemporaries, and I'm curious why you didn't

626
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: think that was a subject worth exploring.

627
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 2: I never said that it wasn't a subject worth exploring.

628
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 2: I think it was a subject worth exploring. I think

629
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 2: how it's gone about in terms of presenting to the

630
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 2: public is the problem a couple things. Number One, I

631
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 2: think if you have all this evidence and you're learning

632
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 2: all this information about President Biden's allegedimental decline during the

633
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four election, as a journalist, to responsibility to

634
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 2: release it when you have it and when you vet it,

635
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 2: and that's during the election, so that the public is aware.

636
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 2: That's number one. And a number of facts came out afterwards,

637
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 2: I know, but there were a number of facts that

638
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 2: they learned of on the campaign trip. So that's number one.

639
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 2: I think Number two is the way it's being presented now.

640
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 2: President Biden is no longer president. He is not the

641
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 2: commander in chief. He is not making decisions. You can

642
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 2: go and sell your book all you want. I have

643
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 2: no issues of Tapper and Thompson doing that, But when

644
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 2: you turn CNN into Tapper's book agent every night, and

645
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 2: every single interview asks about Tapper's book. That to me

646
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 2: is a problem because that seems like CNN is just

647
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 2: trying to sell the book of one of their biggest hosts,

648
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,959
Speaker 2: not necessarily kind of doing honest and honest journalism. And

649
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 2: so that's my biggest critique, and I think that the

650
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 2: way it's kind of been presented publicly is this kind

651
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 2: of US versus them mentality of like, we want to

652
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,959
Speaker 2: push this narrative that every Democrat running in twenty twenty

653
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 2: eight needs to answer what they thought about President Biden

654
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four, when that's not where we are

655
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 2: as a country. That's not what everyday Americans care about.

656
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 2: They care about who's in office right now and what

657
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 2: the person in office is doing, and if your coverage

658
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 2: isn't focused on that, then that's a problem in my opinion.

659
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: Well, I agree with you on a number of points,

660
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: but just as my personal rebuttal, I think you're right.

661
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 1: I think they were obligated to divulge any information they've

662
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: discovered during the campaign. They would say, ninety percent of

663
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 1: what we learned that was going on behind the scenes

664
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: we learned after he dropped out and after the election.

665
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: I also think that the should have divulged it at

666
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: the time. I agree with you wholeheartedly. There was something

667
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: gross and unseemly about the way Jake was hawking his

668
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: book every day on his show and holding it up

669
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 1: and telling people to buy it and using it as

670
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: a platform to sell books. I thought was really yucky.

671
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 1: I do think that he has aggressively covered Donald Trump,

672
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 1: so I don't think it's an either or situation. And

673
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 1: I guess finally, many people would argue Joe Biden and

674
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: his inner circle of enablers, and by the way, I

675
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,280
Speaker 1: know Joe Biden. I like Joe Biden, but they actually

676
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 1: are the reason we have Donald Trump, because had he

677
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: dropped out earlier and allowed a primary process to go forward,

678
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: the best candidate would have emerged to beat Donald Trump.

679
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,439
Speaker 1: And leaving Kamala Harris as the heir apparent with only

680
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: one hundred and seven days to campaign was just not

681
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 1: an adequate amount of time to introduce her to the

682
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: American people. And that the judgment he and his inner

683
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: circle showed got us in this situation where democracy is

684
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: so much in peril.

685
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 3: So that's what I would say to you about that.

686
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 2: I mean, you might be right. Hindsight is obviously twenty twenty.

687
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 2: But at the same time, I have my own kind

688
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 2: of small rebuttal to that and.

689
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,240
Speaker 3: Your move, sir, Yeah.

690
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 2: I mean listen, My rebuttal to that is, Kamala Harris

691
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 2: didn't lose this election. Donald Trump won the election. And

692
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,359
Speaker 2: I truly, personally, I don't know a Democrat that would

693
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 2: have beaten Donald Trump in twenty twenty four. Whether Biden

694
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 2: dropped out six months earlier, a year earlier, the political

695
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 2: headwinds were so strong against any Democratic nominee, whether it

696
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 2: was Vice President Harris or Governor Newsom or Governor Whitmer,

697
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 2: and arguably more so strongly against someone who is not

698
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 2: Biden or Harris, because they're just not as well known

699
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 2: to the country.

700
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they would have had time to introduce themselves,

701
00:36:57,719 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: and I mean you're right, could have, would have, should have.

702
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 1: Hindsight is twenty twenty, but there is I think a

703
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 1: pretty powerful argument to be made that things might have

704
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: and will never know, turned out differently if Joe Biden

705
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: had stepped down earlier, as he said during his campaign

706
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 1: that he was going to be a bridge to the

707
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: next generation. Flanked by Corey Booker, Gretchen Whitmer, and Kamala

708
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:24,919
Speaker 1: Harris and then he reneged on that.

709
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, and listen, I'm not defending President Biden. I'm not

710
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 2: saying that he should have stayed in the race as

711
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,439
Speaker 2: long as he did. I don't know, and truth be told,

712
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 2: maybe it would have been better. But at the end

713
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 2: of the day, hindsight is twenty twenty, what happened happened.

714
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 2: And now I think it's important to look forward because

715
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 2: Democratic Party isn't unning against Donald Trump anymore. It's not

716
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 2: running against necessarily the MAGA movement. It's going to be

717
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 2: running against a completely different form of Republicanism come twenty

718
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 2: twenty eight, and I think that the party needs to

719
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 2: look forward, not backwards.

720
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,479
Speaker 1: Okay, let me ask you about legacy media a little

721
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: bit more, because I know you say Earn News aggregator

722
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 1: that you're not an investigated journalist, and a lot of

723
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 1: your videos are regurgitating breaking news headlines, giving them context

724
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,879
Speaker 1: and perspective, granted, and your take on them. But isn't

725
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 1: the work you do made possible by legacy media and

726
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: all the reporters out in the field, And don't you

727
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 1: have to be careful about disparaging their work too much?

728
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 1: Because without them, you wouldn't have a job.

729
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 2: Well, so I'll push back a little bit. About fifty

730
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 2: to sixty percent of the stories that I cover are

731
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 2: actually stories that I source myself. It's not necessarily aggregating

732
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 2: other breaking news headlines. I have notifications on for every

733
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 2: single member of Congress, every single world leader. When Donald

734
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 2: Trump posts something on truth social I read it and

735
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:46,839
Speaker 2: I report on it. I don't wait for the New

736
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 2: York Times to read it, report on it, and report

737
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 2: on what the time said. Right. I watch c Span religiously.

738
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 2: When I see something on c Span, I kind of

739
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 2: throw it out there. I get tips to my email

740
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 2: inbox daily from federal employees for sending me memos and

741
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 2: any information that I cover as well. So that's about

742
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 2: half the work. The other half the work is made

743
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 2: possible by legacy media, for sure, and.

744
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:12,760
Speaker 1: By investigating and you know, investigative reporters who spend weeks,

745
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 1: if not months, digging in, you know, filing Foyer requests,

746
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera.

747
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 2: One hundred percent, and I will I would never degrade

748
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 2: the work that they're doing, especially the work that local

749
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 2: journalists are doing. The ABC affiliates, the NBC affiliates on

750
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 2: the ground, and I have top time and time again

751
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 2: about the amazing work that they do and how they

752
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 2: need to be uplifted. I think where my gripe with

753
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 2: legacy media is I guess maybe framed wrong in the

754
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 2: sense of my gripe is with cable news media and

755
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 2: the hosts that are on it and the way news

756
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 2: is portrayed on television rather than an individual reporter. I

757
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 2: think the Washington Post has some brilliant reporters, but I

758
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 2: have a problem with the Posts as a brand because

759
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 2: of the influence that its owner has. Right, So I

760
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 2: have I have a problem with kind of the overall

761
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,720
Speaker 2: media apparatus rather than any individual reporter.

762
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 3: Right.

763
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: And what is your beef, particularly with cable news. Is

764
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 1: it that it's the way information is framed or putting context?

765
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,800
Speaker 1: And do you have a beef with all cable news

766
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 1: or do you have a beef primarily with Fox News?

767
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 2: So my primary beef comes from CNNMSNBC and Fox those

768
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 2: kind of the big three in a way not necessarily

769
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 2: like there's some great like David Muher does great work,

770
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 2: Like there's some really good kind of cable news hosts.

771
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 2: But I think when I'm watching CNN at the ten

772
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 2: pm hour and it's Abby Phillips Show. And Abby is great.

773
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 2: I think she's amazing. But when it's a roundtable discussion

774
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 2: of politics rather than just giving me what I need

775
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 2: to know from the day, that to me upsets me

776
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 2: because it's no longer fact based journalism. It's an opinion

777
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,760
Speaker 2: talk show hosts. It's the view, but just at ten pm.

778
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 2: And I'm not watching CNN at ten pm personally to

779
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 2: get opinions from Scott Jennings or on the left. I'm

780
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,840
Speaker 2: watching CNNA ten pm to get information about what I

781
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 2: missed during the day, and I just don't get that anymore.

782
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, and what about Fox the way they frame everything?

783
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: I mean, to me, it's fascinating to watch MSNBC. And

784
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 1: by the way, a very small audience is watching all

785
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: of these cable news networks at this point. But I'd

786
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: like to see how a story's framed by MSNBC versus Fox.

787
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,800
Speaker 1: Now I'm more aligned with the way MSNBC is framing

788
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: the story. But Fox, I remember when the stock market

789
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: was crashing, they took down the ticker. You don't hear

790
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: about a lot of things that Donald Trump is doing

791
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 1: on Fox News, and if you do, it's framed in

792
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 1: a very positive way and not sort of a holistic

793
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: look at whatever action has been taken.

794
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 2: Oh for sure. I mean I think I remember when

795
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 2: the birthright Citizenship Executive Order was struck down the first time.

796
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 2: Instead of talking about that, they were talking about plastic

797
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 2: straws for fifteen minutes. And I was watching that and

798
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 2: I was like, this is just you're doing a disservice

799
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 2: to the people that are watching your channel. Just be

800
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 2: honest with what's happening in our country and what the

801
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 2: courts are saying and what the president is doing, and

802
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 2: let them decide for themselves whether or not they agree

803
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 2: with it or not.

804
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 1: Well, their motto used to be, we report, you decide,

805
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: but I don't think I always say it's like we retort,

806
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 1: we deride.

807
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:26,399
Speaker 2: No, you're you're right. I mean, it's bad how they've

808
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 2: kind of framed it. And I mean, I don't think

809
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 2: at least anymore they pretend to be, at least at

810
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 2: night with like the Hannities of the World and Laura

811
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 2: Ingram I don't think they pretend to be a new

812
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 2: show as much as they pretend to be kind.

813
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 3: Of they're a talk radio on TV.

814
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:40,280
Speaker 2: Really, that's really what it is at this point.

815
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 3: Does your family still watch Fox News?

816
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 2: No, they do not, not from what I'm aware of.

817
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 2: I haven't been down there in a little while, but

818
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 2: probably not.

819
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 1: Let me ask you a little bit about your process.

820
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: You post twelve to fifteen tiktoks a day, Aaron, you

821
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 1: post five to six times a day on substack. How

822
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 1: much time are you spending on social media and following

823
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 1: the news every day? And how do you unplug? If ever?

824
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 2: I don't unplug work life balance doesn't exist for me.

825
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 2: I'm twenty six years old. I feel like I can

826
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 2: work as much as I can until I start having kids,

827
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 2: and then I'll have to slow down a little bit.

828
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 2: I am online, truthfully all the time, unless it's Friday

829
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 2: nights for Shabbat, I try to unplug and kind of

830
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 2: be off my phone for several hours if possible, But

831
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,359
Speaker 2: otherwise I'm monitoring at twenty four to seven. Like I said,

832
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 2: I have notifications on for every time a member of

833
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 2: Congress tweets, so have I wake up to two thousand

834
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,400
Speaker 2: notifications every morning that I score grew to see what

835
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 2: I'm like missing, So I'm always online.

836
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about Ukraine because of your

837
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,280
Speaker 1: family connections there. I mean, there's so many news events

838
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: I'd like to talk to you about, but let me

839
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: just do run down a few right now. Do you

840
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 1: think people understand how strange it is that Donald Trump

841
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: did a complete about face on behalf of the United

842
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 1: States of America when it comes to support swarding Ukraine

843
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 1: versus Vladimir Putin? And how do you, as someone with

844
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: such close ties, how do you make sense of it?

845
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 2: I don't. I mean, I don't want to speculate, right like,

846
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 2: there are so many people out there speculating that Trump

847
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 2: is in Putin's pocket. There was even like a TikTok

848
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:22,800
Speaker 2: trend people talking about how Trump was being a Kremlin agent,

849
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 2: and I think all that's BS. Like, I don't buy

850
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,800
Speaker 2: into the conspiracy theories or the speculation. I think truth

851
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 2: be told. I don't know that this is as much

852
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 2: Trump as it is about Vance and those around him,

853
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 2: and this kind of America first mentality of trying to

854
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:42,359
Speaker 2: abandon anyone overseas. It's not just Ukraine, right, We're seeing

855
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 2: them pull foreign aid from countries across the world, and

856
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 2: America's soft power has been weakened tremendously.

857
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,320
Speaker 3: Since the jsaid right exactly.

858
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:53,839
Speaker 2: So I don't know that it's just Ukraine. I think

859
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,359
Speaker 2: Ukraine is just a hot button issue because it's the

860
00:44:56,440 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 2: war where American dollars have been spent on. But I

861
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 2: don't know. I don't know how to reconcile it. It's

862
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:08,719
Speaker 2: very scary. And maybe, I mean, listen, maybe Trump is

863
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:11,240
Speaker 2: coming around to the idea that Putin doesn't want peace.

864
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 2: He's been Putin crazy lately and.

865
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 1: Saying now he's actually acting like a petulant, jilted teenager

866
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 1: on truth social talking about Putin now and how disappointed

867
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: he is and how he's crazy. But it strikes me

868
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: as like just reeking of naivete.

869
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 2: It is, I mean it is. I think really Trump

870
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 2: tried to portray himself as someone who could come in

871
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 2: as a deal maker and really end this war, and

872
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 2: Joe Biden couldn't do it. So Trump is going to

873
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 2: do it. And I think with each passing day he

874
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 2: gets more and more frustrated that he's realizing, hey, one

875
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 2: side to this doesn't actually want to end the.

876
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: War, and maybe foreign policy is a little more complicated

877
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: than he thought. Maybe maybe let me ask you about

878
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,799
Speaker 1: the big beautiful bill. I know that I believe you

879
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:03,319
Speaker 1: or somebody I read so much to Aaron, I kind

880
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: of get mixed up at some point. But someone said,

881
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 1: I think maybe you did how it was going to

882
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 1: basically turbo charge income inequality in this country, exacerbate it

883
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: as never before. Maybe that was someone else, was that

884
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 1: you erin I may have said something. Anyway, do you

885
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 1: think people understand truly what is in this bill and

886
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,799
Speaker 1: how will impact the least fortunate Americans?

887
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 2: No, not at all, I mean, and I think the

888
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 2: reason why is because the messaging just isn't there. I mean,

889
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:36,799
Speaker 2: I could say the Congressional Budget Office, the non part

890
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 2: is in Congressional Budget Office says the bottom ten percent

891
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 2: will suffer the most, in the top ten percent will

892
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 2: suffer the least, or will benefit the most. But ultimately,

893
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 2: this bill is hundreds of pages in length. Your average

894
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 2: American is not reading it. Your average American doesn't know

895
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 2: that on page five hundred and sixty two there's a

896
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,840
Speaker 2: paragraph that limits a federal court's ability to enforce contemp

897
00:46:55,840 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 2: proceedings against the administration. Right like the average doesn't really

898
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 2: understand what Medicaid cuts mean, what work requirements for Medicaid

899
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 2: are and how that can be implemented in states around

900
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 2: the country. So the impacts of it won't be felt,

901
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 2: truthfully for a while, for several years. Maybe that's what

902
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 2: they want because by that point, if you look at

903
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 2: the bill, many of the cuts and the work requirements

904
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 2: don't start until after the midterm election, So the impacts

905
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 2: really won't be felt for a lot of people until

906
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 2: twenty twenty seven, and by then Republicans could run on

907
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:32,720
Speaker 2: the fact that they just cut a bunch of taxes

908
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 2: and look, Medicaid's still fine, everything's fine. And then January first,

909
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 2: twenty twenty seven comes around and thirteen point seven million

910
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 2: Americans are without healthcare.

911
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 1: So what do you think of the fact that RFK,

912
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 1: Junior and HHS and the CDC and basically are saying

913
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 1: that pregnant women and children no longer need to get

914
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:57,240
Speaker 1: the COVID vaccine. I mean, that has been so politicized,

915
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 1: and medical news was never sized in this way.

916
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 2: It's unfortunate. I mean, here's the thing. If that is

917
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 2: what doctors believe, and if that's what the research suggests,

918
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 2: then great, go forward with it. Remove it off the

919
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,359
Speaker 2: communization schedule for pregnant women and healthy children. But it's

920
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 2: gotten to the point where anything RFK Junior says is

921
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 2: distrusted by a majority of the American public because of

922
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:23,800
Speaker 2: the things that he had said in the past about

923
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:28,280
Speaker 2: this vaccine. So it's an unfortunate situation where medical decisions

924
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 2: are now politicized, where the Secretary of Health and Human Services.

925
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:36,280
Speaker 2: If you ask the average American who was the HHS

926
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 2: secretary under Biden or under Obama or even under Trump won,

927
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:42,400
Speaker 2: no one would know. Maybe one percent of one percent

928
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 2: would know. A lot of people know who RFK Junior is.

929
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 2: And that's a problem.

930
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 1: If you want to get smarter every morning with a

931
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and

932
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 1: wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter,

933
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 1: Wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com.

934
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:16,479
Speaker 3: Aaron, how do you book guests?

935
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 1: Because you recently napped an interview with Corey Booker after

936
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 1: his twenty five hour filibuster. Do you just reach out

937
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 1: to their teams? Do they know who you are? You know,

938
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,759
Speaker 1: I'm lucky because I've been doing this for a long time,

939
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 1: a lot longer than you have, and so I was

940
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 1: able to establish a name for myself before the media

941
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 1: landscape was so fragmented. But for you, you're relatively new

942
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 1: to the game. How hard is it for you to

943
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 1: secure these interviews with people like Corey Booker.

944
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:49,320
Speaker 2: It's hard, but I really hustle. I mean, I DM people,

945
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 2: I cold email them, I cold text them, I try

946
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 2: to get information wherever I can people's contact information, and

947
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 2: I just kind of I bug them indeceptively until they

948
00:49:59,280 --> 00:49:59,799
Speaker 2: say yes.

949
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:02,560
Speaker 1: And I'm sure now that they know about your reach,

950
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 1: the fact that you are the number one news and

951
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 1: politics substack in the world, and I've just joined substack,

952
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:11,359
Speaker 1: so we'll have to do some conversations like that on

953
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,800
Speaker 1: that platform. But you know they must be like, oh, yeah,

954
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 1: I know Aaron Parness. I'd be happy to talk to him.

955
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: And you're reaching this audience of much younger voters who

956
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 1: are really turned off by a lot of other news sources.

957
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. And I think it's gotten to the

958
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 2: point where, like I now have a personal relationship with

959
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 2: like senat or a book like you build relationships with

960
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,919
Speaker 2: not just their staff, but they're the member themselves as well.

961
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 2: When you speak to them on numerous occasions and you

962
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:40,319
Speaker 2: talk them off the record and on the record, and

963
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 2: you kind of just develop those relationships and it's it's

964
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:45,359
Speaker 2: been great. I mean now I get messages every day

965
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 2: from members wanting to come on.

966
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:50,320
Speaker 1: Oh that's well, they're calling you instead of you reaching

967
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 1: out to them. That's a very enviable place to be.

968
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 1: I wanted to know, how do you make money eron

969
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 1: because you don't charge for any of your content And

970
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:04,840
Speaker 1: my parents always told me it was impolite to discuss

971
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:07,360
Speaker 1: money with people, But how do you earn a living?

972
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 2: Erin? So I don't charge for any of the content,

973
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 2: but I earn a full time living from people who

974
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,799
Speaker 2: just want to become paid subscribers and support the work

975
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 2: even though it's all free. So make a complete, full

976
00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 2: time living on Substack and also the platform TikTok YouTube.

977
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 2: The platforms themselves pay out through creativity funds that they

978
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 2: build out for creators, so they pay out through that

979
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:31,360
Speaker 2: as well, and that's kind of how I make a living.

980
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 2: But people are willing to pay for even free news

981
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:36,959
Speaker 2: because they support me and the work that I'm doing.

982
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:37,720
Speaker 3: That's great.

983
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 2: You know.

984
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:40,120
Speaker 1: It seems to me that there's been a lot of

985
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:43,319
Speaker 1: conversation about right wing media and how powerful it is.

986
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 1: I interviewed Michael Tomaski. He's the editor of The New Republic,

987
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 1: and he wrote in a piece quote, once upon a time,

988
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 1: the mainstream media was a beach ball and the right

989
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 1: wing media was a golf ball. Today, the mainstream media

990
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 1: is the size of a volleyball, and the right wing

991
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 1: media is the size of a basketball, which, in case

992
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 1: you're wondering, is bigger. Twenty twenty four was the year

993
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 1: in which it became obvious that the right wing media

994
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 1: has more power than the mainstream media. It's not just

995
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 1: that it's bigger, it's that it speaks with one voice,

996
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 1: and that voice says Democrats and liberals are treason as

997
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 1: elitists who hate you, and Republicans and conservatives love God

998
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 1: and country and are your last line of defense against

999
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 1: your son coming home from school as your daughter. Why

1000
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 1: do you think the right wing media has been so effective?

1001
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 1: And do you see this surge of media on the

1002
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:42,280
Speaker 1: other side that is starting slowly but surely to counter

1003
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 1: some of the messaging right wing media is spewing on

1004
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 1: a regular daily, if not minute by minute basis.

1005
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:52,759
Speaker 2: Well, I think to the first point is because they

1006
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:54,959
Speaker 2: got it right, like they know how to do. They

1007
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 2: know how to play the game right. So you'll have

1008
00:52:57,000 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 2: someone will put out a tweet saying that mister Potato

1009
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 2: has is actually transgender. That'll be the tweet that comes out.

1010
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:05,799
Speaker 2: It'll get blown up on Twitter because Elon musk Quote

1011
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 2: tweets it. Then we'll Chamberlain on Fox News. We'll feature

1012
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 2: it during the day, then Laura Ingram and Sean Hannity

1013
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:13,840
Speaker 2: will talk about it at night. Then it'll be on

1014
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 2: Ben Shapiro's podcast and Megan Kelly's podcast the next day.

1015
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,879
Speaker 2: They will talk about the same talking point across whether

1016
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,839
Speaker 2: you are one follower or ten million followers, and they'll

1017
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:24,759
Speaker 2: beat it as much as they can do.

1018
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:27,840
Speaker 1: They have this big editorial god who's sending them like

1019
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 1: talking points every day because Roger Ales used to do

1020
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:34,399
Speaker 1: that at Fox News and they probably still do.

1021
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 2: Probably, I mean, but they are so coordinated when it

1022
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:39,479
Speaker 2: comes to messaging. If they want to talk about Hunter

1023
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 2: Biden's laptop, that's all you'll hear for days from everyone.

1024
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:45,239
Speaker 2: And I think that's where they get it right. As

1025
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 2: far as whether it's kind of building on the left,

1026
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 2: it isn't it isn't right. I think that there are

1027
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:55,399
Speaker 2: definitely media kind of companies and media personalities that might

1028
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 2: as touched, for example, that are really doing great work

1029
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 2: on the left and they are building something really big there,

1030
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 2: But outside of them, I think where the left gets

1031
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 2: it wrong is that they're just looking to replicate what

1032
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 2: the right does. But you can't do that because the

1033
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 2: messaging isn't the same. Because on the left, if you

1034
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 2: say talk about reproductive rights, and everyone talks about reproductive rights,

1035
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:19,840
Speaker 2: you're not going to get everyone to talk about that.

1036
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:21,759
Speaker 2: Someone's going to talk about climates, someone's going to talk

1037
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 2: about small businesses, someone's going to talk about like criminal justice.

1038
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:27,360
Speaker 2: You're going to be all over the place. And until

1039
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:30,400
Speaker 2: you fix messaging, it doesn't matter whether you have one

1040
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 2: hundred million followers or a million followers or one follower,

1041
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:36,279
Speaker 2: you're just not going to get anything across. So they

1042
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 2: are building I just think that they may be building it.

1043
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:43,239
Speaker 1: Wrong, building it wrong because they are not sticking to

1044
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:44,319
Speaker 1: one message.

1045
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:49,800
Speaker 2: It's about messaging because they don't have a good message.

1046
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:51,840
Speaker 2: Not necessarily sticking to one message, they don't have a

1047
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:54,399
Speaker 2: good message that resonates with voters right now, So.

1048
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:55,560
Speaker 3: What should their message be.

1049
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, I am not in the

1050
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 2: position yeah make that decision.

1051
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:06,960
Speaker 1: That's above your pay grade. Well we don't know that,

1052
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 1: but it is above.

1053
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:13,439
Speaker 2: My pay grade. And I think that where I tell everyone,

1054
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:16,799
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four was not a bloodbath. It was not

1055
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:19,759
Speaker 2: an election landslide the way some on the right had

1056
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:21,279
Speaker 2: painted it out to be. It was two hundred and

1057
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:23,880
Speaker 2: ten thousand votes in three swing states. That was the election,

1058
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 2: And ultimately, if the election were held a month later,

1059
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 2: it could have swum. If election were held two months earlier,

1060
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 2: it could have swam. I don't know. And I think

1061
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 2: to say that there is such a disparity between the

1062
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,839
Speaker 2: right and the left right now in America, it's not

1063
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:41,280
Speaker 2: fully accurate.

1064
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:44,600
Speaker 1: It just as there's sort of this massive swath of

1065
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 1: people in the middle too.

1066
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 2: And there are a lot of young people who we

1067
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 2: need the left needs to get better at talking.

1068
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:54,800
Speaker 1: To, and also people need to help them understand the issues.

1069
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:57,239
Speaker 1: Someone wrote in I know the rage gets clicks, but

1070
00:55:57,280 --> 00:55:59,959
Speaker 1: I'd like to see the Dems move forward with the plan.

1071
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: You know, we're talking about sort of progressive media, but

1072
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:06,799
Speaker 1: what about the Democratic Party in general? I mean, I

1073
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 1: know you're not a Democratic strategist, and I think it's

1074
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:13,160
Speaker 1: important to delineate what you do and what sort of

1075
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:17,040
Speaker 1: people who are coming up with, you know, talking points

1076
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:19,800
Speaker 1: and sort of the ethos and the future ethos of

1077
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:20,840
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party.

1078
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 3: But what would you like.

1079
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:26,239
Speaker 1: To see more of come from Democrats and not just

1080
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:27,439
Speaker 1: the people covering them.

1081
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 2: Well, I'd like there to be a leader, right Like

1082
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:33,360
Speaker 2: I'd like the Democrats to find a leader to unify around.

1083
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 2: That's number one. And whether that's someone like Pete Budhjed

1084
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:38,719
Speaker 2: or Hakeem Jeffries, whoever it is, I'd like to them

1085
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,680
Speaker 2: to find someone who has that voice that speaks for

1086
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 2: the party, because I don't think the DNC should ever

1087
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:46,839
Speaker 2: be speaking for the party. It's more of just kind

1088
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:50,960
Speaker 2: of inner party minutia that they decide. So I think

1089
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party needs a leader number one, and then

1090
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:56,960
Speaker 2: number two. I think once they have a leader, what

1091
00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 2: I would like to see is just like ordinated message

1092
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 2: on a few main issues. We shouldn't be hitting Donald

1093
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 2: Trump on everything he does, because he does so much

1094
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:10,320
Speaker 2: stuff that if you're just hitting him on everything, you're

1095
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:11,839
Speaker 2: never going to be able to put forth your own

1096
00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:15,840
Speaker 2: message on things. And so I think we need to

1097
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:19,800
Speaker 2: find coordinated messaging on key issues, whether it be immigration

1098
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 2: or form, reproductive justice, whatever it is. I mean, figure

1099
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:24,560
Speaker 2: it out, figure out what polls well, I don't care,

1100
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:27,439
Speaker 2: and just start hitting those and put forth your own

1101
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 2: agenda rather than just this we don't like Trump agenda.

1102
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 1: Well it's interesting because I do see a lot more

1103
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 1: Democrats showing up on social media, talking straight to camera,

1104
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 1: telling people what's going on. But it seems to me

1105
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:43,560
Speaker 1: there should be somebody who says, Okay, everybody today on

1106
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 1: social media, let's focus on this so in aggregate they

1107
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:52,640
Speaker 1: could communicate their message and really get it across. Before

1108
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:54,760
Speaker 1: we go, I wanted to ask you about the MPR

1109
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 1: lawsuit against Donald Trump and everything that good Lord is

1110
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 1: happening at heart. You know, as a lawyer, how do

1111
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 1: you see all of this kind of shaking out? And

1112
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:08,880
Speaker 1: do you think the judiciary is going to stand up

1113
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 1: for NPR and Harvard And if they do, do you

1114
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 1: think it will have any impact on what the administration does,

1115
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 1: because so far they don't seem to be paying a

1116
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:19,480
Speaker 1: lot of attention to judges.

1117
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do, I mean, I really do trust our judiciary.

1118
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:24,440
Speaker 2: I clerked for a federal judge who has confirmed one

1119
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 2: hundred to zero. Back when federal judges were confirmed unanimously

1120
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 2: and I saw the judiciary from the inside out, I

1121
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:33,160
Speaker 2: really do have a lot of faith in the judicial process.

1122
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 2: It's slow, it's mainly focused on gridlock really and obstruction within,

1123
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 2: but that's mainly what the system is meant to do

1124
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,120
Speaker 2: and meant to be, and it protects the American people.

1125
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 2: And I think when it comes to NPR, when it

1126
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 2: comes to Harvard, when it comes to these lawsuits, I

1127
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 2: think the judiciary will rule in accordance with the law,

1128
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 2: and yeah, well, Trump will win on some grounds in

1129
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:55,200
Speaker 2: some cases. I'm not saying he's going to lose every

1130
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:58,120
Speaker 2: single case, but they will uphold the law. And I

1131
00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:00,760
Speaker 2: think that's ultimately what needs to happen. Trump is right

1132
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 2: or whether he is wrong, the law needs to be upheld.

1133
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 2: And if they uphold the law and Trump chooses not

1134
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 2: to follow the law and play fast and loose with

1135
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 2: the law, then I think where the new judiciary needs

1136
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 2: to go is it needs to be more explicit. Donald Trump,

1137
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:19,840
Speaker 2: with this whole Abrago Garcia Supreme Court debacle, the Supreme

1138
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:22,439
Speaker 2: Court said you need to facilitate his return. They never

1139
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:25,720
Speaker 2: said you need to get Kilmore back. They were very

1140
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:30,040
Speaker 2: intentionally vague in the word choice of facilitate, because facilitate

1141
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 2: could mean a number of things. And Trump is now saying,

1142
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 2: you know what, I am facilitating it. I am maybe

1143
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:38,480
Speaker 2: we asked behind the scenes the government of l Salvador

1144
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:39,920
Speaker 2: to bring him back or whatever.

1145
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 3: And they're refusing, you know, yeah.

1146
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:44,680
Speaker 2: Exactly that. But that is facilitating in his mind. And

1147
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:47,920
Speaker 2: by being intentionally vague, the last thing judges want to

1148
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:51,680
Speaker 2: do is make precedent. I've learned that, and so they

1149
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:54,960
Speaker 2: are intentionally vague to kind of allow for these legal maneuvers.

1150
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 2: And I think the judiciary needs to become more explicit

1151
00:59:57,320 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 2: in its rulings to prevent what happened with Killmore Brayogarcia

1152
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 2: from happening to NPR or Harvard or any of these

1153
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:04,600
Speaker 2: other institutions.

1154
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 1: Well, Aaron Parness, I have kept you over an hour

1155
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 1: and you've got a lot of news to cover, so

1156
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:13,120
Speaker 1: I'm going to let you go. It's such a pleasure

1157
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 1: to meet you, Erin. I really appreciate your time, and

1158
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 1: keep up the good work, and thank you so so

1159
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 1: much for talking with me.

1160
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. This is amazing.

1161
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me,

1162
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 1: a subject you want us to cover, or you want

1163
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:34,920
Speaker 1: to share your thoughts about how you navigate this crazy world,

1164
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 1: reach out send me a DM on Instagram. I would

1165
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:41,600
Speaker 1: love to hear from you. Next Question is a production

1166
01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:46,200
Speaker 1: of iHeartMedia and Katie Kuric Media. The executive producers are Me,

1167
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:51,160
Speaker 1: Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz,

1168
01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:56,520
Speaker 1: and our producers are Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian

1169
01:00:56,560 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 1: Weller composed our theme music for Morning. For about today's episode,

1170
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:04,240
Speaker 1: or to sign up for my newsletter, wake Up Call,

1171
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 1: go to the description in the podcast app or visit

1172
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:10,880
Speaker 1: us at Katiecuric dot com. You can also find me

1173
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:14,680
Speaker 1: on Instagram and all my social media channels. For more

1174
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1175
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:25,200
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hi everyone, it's

1176
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:28,160
Speaker 1: Katie Couric. You know I'm always on the go between

1177
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 1: running my media company, hosting my podcast, and of course

1178
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 1: covering the news, and I know that to keep doing

1179
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:37,760
Speaker 1: what I love I need to start caring for what

1180
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 1: gets me there, my feet. That's why I decided to

1181
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Speaker 1: try the Good feet stores personalized arch support system. I

1182
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Speaker 1: met with a Good Feet arch support specialist and after

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Speaker 1: a personalized fitting, I left the store with my three

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1185
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