Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production of I Heart Radios,
Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with
Speaker 1: How Stuff Works and I heart Radio and I love
Speaker 1: all things tech. And today we're gonna tackle a topic
Speaker 1: that has become sort of an annual tradition in tech
Speaker 1: journalism in general and video game journalism in particular, and
Speaker 1: that is to discuss E three the Electronic Entertainment Expo
Speaker 1: and whether or not there's still a place for E three,
Speaker 1: Is it still relevant, and to really get an idea
Speaker 1: of why we have this conversation, and we've been having
Speaker 1: it over and over. I mean, the earliest article I
Speaker 1: found with that sort of title was from two thousand twelve,
Speaker 1: and I have no doubt that there are even earlier versions.
Speaker 1: But to understand why we're asking that question, it would
Speaker 1: behoove us to know more about the history of E three.
Speaker 1: So back in several video game publishers came together to
Speaker 1: create what was called the Interactive Digital Software Association or
Speaker 1: i d s A. This is what would eventually become
Speaker 1: the E s A, and that is the organization that
Speaker 1: oversees e three, but in the original days it was
Speaker 1: the I D s A. And the purpose was to
Speaker 1: form a group that could create industry standards for rating
Speaker 1: video games, in other words, to indicate whether or not
Speaker 1: the game was appropriate for certain age groups, so very
Speaker 1: similar to the m p A, a rating system for movies.
Speaker 1: So if you've ever picked up a video game and
Speaker 1: you've seen the rating system on there, that's from this organization.
Speaker 1: And this was in response to the threat of the
Speaker 1: United States government stepping in and regulating the industry itself.
Speaker 1: Joe Lieberman had proposed the Video Games Rating Act, so
Speaker 1: to get ahead of this and to make sure that
Speaker 1: the industry could remain in control of its own destiny, publishers,
Speaker 1: lots of the major video game publishers got together and
Speaker 1: created the I D s A and the ratings system.
Speaker 1: And the I D s A didn't just stop with
Speaker 1: the rating system. That was its primary purpose for coming
Speaker 1: into being, but they came up with another idea in
Speaker 1: addition to that, and that was to hold a trade
Speaker 1: show exclusively for console and computer games. And this was
Speaker 1: to address two big challenges. The first was a practical
Speaker 1: challenge for I D essay itself. They needed to have
Speaker 1: some way to fund this organization. If it was going
Speaker 1: to exist to give out these ratings, it had to
Speaker 1: have enough money to operate. So how could the organization
Speaker 1: generate money on in that instance? And and the trade
Speaker 1: show was tried and true method, so that was reason one,
Speaker 1: a practical reason just to keep the I d s
Speaker 1: A going, But reason too to do with visibility. Previously,
Speaker 1: game companies would exhibit at shows like the Consumer Electronics
Speaker 1: Show or ce S in the United States, but that's
Speaker 1: an enormous show of all consumer electronics as a broad
Speaker 1: approach to electronics, and video games would get lost in
Speaker 1: the shuffle. They were often pushed off to a remote location,
Speaker 1: far from the main traffic of the floor. Sometimes they'd
Speaker 1: be put in environments that were really unsuitable for showing
Speaker 1: off hardware. There's a famous story that Sega was determined
Speaker 1: not to go back to c e S after being
Speaker 1: put in a tent in a parking lot and during
Speaker 1: a rainstorm, that tent proved to be less than waterproof,
Speaker 1: and so water was leaking down on video game consoles
Speaker 1: and that was unacceptable. So video game developers and publishers
Speaker 1: found it really difficult to meet with retailers and press
Speaker 1: in order to get their products into stores and to
Speaker 1: promote their products. In other words, they were spending a
Speaker 1: lot of money going to these trade shows and they
Speaker 1: weren't getting much out of it. And back in those days,
Speaker 1: which would be the early to mid nineteen nineties, video
Speaker 1: games were more of a niche product. Even the best
Speaker 1: selling video game of nine, which was at least according
Speaker 1: to most sources, Mortal Kombat three. Even that could be
Speaker 1: measured in the hundreds of thousands of copies sold. That's
Speaker 1: not bad, but today when you look at best selling games,
Speaker 1: those can hit several million copies sold. So it seemed
Speaker 1: like a good idea to organize an industry focused event
Speaker 1: just for video and computer games. Companies would get an
Speaker 1: opportunity to showcase new hardware and new video game titles
Speaker 1: to retailers and to the press, and not have to
Speaker 1: worry about being shoved off in a tent in a
Speaker 1: parking lot far from the main show floor of an
Speaker 1: event like C E S Now. At first, the I
Speaker 1: D SAY approached Gary Shapiro, that's the head hauncho of
Speaker 1: the C E S Trade show in those days, and
Speaker 1: the I D S a reps made their case to them.
Speaker 1: They actually were first saying, can we get better, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, better consideration at c S. Can we get
Speaker 1: a better arrangement? But Shapiro's response was fairly dismissive. He
Speaker 1: essentially said, you guys aren't making quote unquote real consumer electronics,
Speaker 1: so they're not going to get a prime spot for
Speaker 1: the show. And word of this meeting between the I
Speaker 1: D s A and Shapiro got back to a guy
Speaker 1: named Pat Farrell, and Pat Farrell was in charge of
Speaker 1: the Game Pro magazine and it was also at that
Speaker 1: time part of a media conglomerate I d G, and
Speaker 1: I d G already had experience running big industry events.
Speaker 1: I d G would run mac World. So Farrell expressed
Speaker 1: interest to the I D S essay for pitching a
Speaker 1: trade show idea to them. But then that information got
Speaker 1: back to Shapiro, you know, the guy running C E S.
Speaker 1: And when he heard that, he had a sudden change
Speaker 1: of heart, or more likely he since the opportunity to
Speaker 1: make some real cash, and he announced that C E
Speaker 1: S intended to launch its own games only trade show,
Speaker 1: and the I D s A was kind of delighted
Speaker 1: because now they had two different parties that were eager
Speaker 1: to do this thing that they wanted to do, and
Speaker 1: so they invited both parties to pitch their ideas to them,
Speaker 1: and the two pitches were about as different as night
Speaker 1: and day. Shapiro's team was citing facts and figures and
Speaker 1: arguing that the prestige of c E s could raise
Speaker 1: the profile of the video games industry in general. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Pat Ferrell's pitch was from the point of view of
Speaker 1: video game companies, and more importantly, it included an offer
Speaker 1: of partial ownership in the trade show itself. The I
Speaker 1: D s A would get around a five percent take
Speaker 1: of the gross revenue generated by the trade show. Shapiro,
Speaker 1: on the other hand, pretty much was demanding full ownership
Speaker 1: of the trade show, so it was kind of a
Speaker 1: no brainer. The I D s A chose to side
Speaker 1: with the I D G slash Ferrell approach. Now that's
Speaker 1: not to say that all the companies in the video
Speaker 1: game industry were totally on board. Nintendo and Microsoft, for example,
Speaker 1: two big names. Though Microsoft had yet to launch its
Speaker 1: own video game console, it was still very much involved
Speaker 1: in the video game world. Both of those companies chose
Speaker 1: to continue exhibiting with the c e S approach. In fact,
Speaker 1: they said, well, we'll go with the c e S
Speaker 1: backed video game trade show. At least at first, that's
Speaker 1: what they've said. Now that would change pretty quickly, but
Speaker 1: it did show how in the early days there was
Speaker 1: a lot of doubt about this endeavor and whether I
Speaker 1: d G could pull it off. Farrell came up with
Speaker 1: the name Electronic Entertainment Expo, and he would call it
Speaker 1: e CUBED for short, but everybody else called it E
Speaker 1: three and that name stuck. The original plan was to
Speaker 1: hold the event in Las Vegas, and it was going
Speaker 1: to be in mid summer. However, Shapiro planned the alternative
Speaker 1: games focused show, the ce S backed version, and that
Speaker 1: was going to happen in Philadelphia in mid May, so
Speaker 1: he was setting a show that would predate Farrell's show.
Speaker 1: He felt like he was being out maneuvered. Farrell that
Speaker 1: it is, and he was worried that if companies would
Speaker 1: commit to going to Shapiro's show, no one would commit
Speaker 1: to E three. So Farrel did something fairly crazy. He
Speaker 1: called up the Los Angeles Convention Center and he asked
Speaker 1: if they had the availability for the exact same dates
Speaker 1: as Shapiro's Philadelphia show, and it just so happened to
Speaker 1: have those dates available. So that's when Farrell decided he
Speaker 1: was not going to hold the event in Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: and it would not be in Midsummer. Instead, it would
Speaker 1: be in mid May in Los Angeles, which he thought
Speaker 1: would be really attractive for Japanese companies because it would
Speaker 1: be just a single flight into l a X, as
Speaker 1: opposed to having to land in l a X and
Speaker 1: then transfer to a different flight to fly all the
Speaker 1: way over to Philadelphia. And then he got on the
Speaker 1: horn and started to invite as many companies as possible
Speaker 1: to exhibit at E three, and he figured there's no
Speaker 1: way that these companies would be able to have a
Speaker 1: presence at two shows simultaneously. They would have to pick
Speaker 1: either E three or the C E S backed games
Speaker 1: only show. Now, Microsoft and Nintendo continued to hold out.
Speaker 1: They continued to back the C E S side, but
Speaker 1: he got lots of other companies on board, and Shapiro
Speaker 1: meanwhile found that it was getting harder and harder to
Speaker 1: fill his show with companies. He had Microsoft and Nintendo
Speaker 1: on board, but everybody else was signing with E three,
Speaker 1: and he couldn't fill out the entire convention hall with
Speaker 1: just two companies, so ultimately he decided that he had
Speaker 1: to cancel this Philadelphia exhibition, and he reportedly called up
Speaker 1: Farrell and said you won, and then hung up, And
Speaker 1: so E three became the only game in town, so
Speaker 1: to speak, pun intended, and that's when Microsoft and Nintendo
Speaker 1: finally came over, because they really had no other alternative
Speaker 1: at that point. Now, once it became the only game
Speaker 1: trade show in the United States, E three suddenly had
Speaker 1: no problem selling exhibition space in general. In fact, it
Speaker 1: ran out of show floor space at the Convention Center
Speaker 1: pretty quickly, and then they began to reserve hotel ballrooms
Speaker 1: in nearby hotels, so it began to expand beyond just
Speaker 1: the convention Center. Sega and Sony were both really big
Speaker 1: presences at the At the show, they took up most
Speaker 1: of one of the two main halls at the convention Center,
Speaker 1: and they were both showing off new video game consoles,
Speaker 1: the Saturn and the PlayStation. Nintendo showed off a very
Speaker 1: early prototype of what would become the Nintendo sixty four,
Speaker 1: but was mostly focus son S E S games at
Speaker 1: that At that particular show, also they launched a beloved
Speaker 1: platform called the Virtual Boy. And yes I'm being tongue
Speaker 1: in cheek there. The Virtual Boy is one of the
Speaker 1: famous flops from Nintendo, but they showed that off at
Speaker 1: that first E three and you can actually see what
Speaker 1: the first E three looked like. A guy named Anthony
Speaker 1: Parisi uploaded more than three hours of video footage that
Speaker 1: he shot during that show and it's available on YouTube. Uh.
Speaker 1: He has footage of several press events which at that
Speaker 1: time were much more business like in their presentation. I
Speaker 1: mean think like power point presentations and guys in suits
Speaker 1: speaking in monotone to a crowd, not very dynamic. And
Speaker 1: later on those would obviously become much bigger budget showcases
Speaker 1: for companies and have a lot of theater wrapped up
Speaker 1: in it. But early in the E three history it
Speaker 1: was much more business oriented. Many booths, once you were
Speaker 1: on the show floor, would actually have a sort of
Speaker 1: stage show to kind of attract people to the various
Speaker 1: booths and and show off the games. And of course,
Speaker 1: even at the very first E three there were the
Speaker 1: so called booth babes, women who had been hired as
Speaker 1: spokesmodels for those companies. The official estimate of attendees for
Speaker 1: that first E three was at fifty five thousand people,
Speaker 1: although Farrell says that the number was probably more than that.
Speaker 1: It was enough to capture the attention of the mainstream media,
Speaker 1: and thus it elevated the trade show in the eyes
Speaker 1: of many, and it achieved one of the big goals
Speaker 1: that the I D. S A had set in the
Speaker 1: first place. The I D s A eventually would be
Speaker 1: able to buy out I D G and become the
Speaker 1: sole owner of the E three trade show, so the
Speaker 1: show would grow, though there were some problems. Not every
Speaker 1: year was a huge success. The third and fourth E
Speaker 1: three had to move to a different venue. It ended
Speaker 1: up moving here in Atlanta. That was because there were
Speaker 1: scheduling conflicts with the Los Angeles Convention Center that had
Speaker 1: already been booked for different events during the dates for
Speaker 1: E three and UH the Atlanta shows were not as
Speaker 1: well attended. It was only a temporary move. It kind
Speaker 1: of bums me out because if it had all worked out,
Speaker 1: I may be able to visit E three and still
Speaker 1: sleep in my own bed each night, but that's not
Speaker 1: how things turned out. The booths would slowly get more
Speaker 1: elaborate over the years, becoming more immersive experiences. So instead
Speaker 1: of it just being you know, a couple of polls
Speaker 1: and some curtains to divide one booth from another, now
Speaker 1: they have booths that are made to look like the
Speaker 1: environments that were inspired by various games like sky Rim
Speaker 1: or Fallout or whatever. Booth babes would continue to be
Speaker 1: a thing, and the show got bigger and more elaborate
Speaker 1: and more audacious each year, becoming more like a party
Speaker 1: like atmosphere until two thousand seven. At that point, the
Speaker 1: e essay, of course, was what the I D. S
Speaker 1: A evolved into re evaluated the show, and the reason
Speaker 1: they did that was because companies were starting to raise
Speaker 1: concerns about the expense around securing and building out a
Speaker 1: booth space at E three, because now it was costing
Speaker 1: millions of dollars to do it, and there was a
Speaker 1: growing number of attendees from smaller outlets like blogs, and
Speaker 1: they were making the show floor really crowded, and more importantly,
Speaker 1: they demonstrated a very small return on investment. That if
Speaker 1: companies were catering to these bloggers, but the bloggers had
Speaker 1: just a few or relatively few number of readers, then
Speaker 1: that was not a great return on the investment of
Speaker 1: time and effort on the part of the publishers, and
Speaker 1: it was making really hard for industry attendees like retailers
Speaker 1: and larger media outlets to actually get their jobs done
Speaker 1: because of these crowds. And there were several companies that
Speaker 1: were considering withdrawing from the show entirely, and that could
Speaker 1: have caused a cascade effect with more companies pulling out,
Speaker 1: like if the big companies pull out, then there's a
Speaker 1: chance that the medium sized companies will pull out, and
Speaker 1: then a chance that the smaller ones will pull out.
Speaker 1: As such, the e s A decided to pare down
Speaker 1: the two thousand seven and two thousand eight E three
Speaker 1: events to kind of prevent this from happening and to
Speaker 1: make it more manageable, and so two thousand seven it
Speaker 1: would become the E three Media and Business Summit. And
Speaker 1: it sounded like it wasn't much fun. It sounds like
Speaker 1: it really wasn't like it was very much business oriented
Speaker 1: and and uh also decentralized. It was spread out among
Speaker 1: a host of hotels and meeting spaces in Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: It wasn't in a centralized convention center. It was also
Speaker 1: invitation only. There was an attendance of just ten thousand
Speaker 1: people for those shows, and it was all trying to
Speaker 1: meet these concerns, but the approach backfired. People began to
Speaker 1: question whether or not E three really meant anything. They
Speaker 1: felt that it wasn't raising the profile of the video
Speaker 1: games anymore. So in two thousand nine, three would expand
Speaker 1: back again, opening up for a much larger attendance, although
Speaker 1: they still limited it. They capped it at forty or
Speaker 1: fifty thousand really now since then the event has grown,
Speaker 1: but some companies have withdrawn from E three. Nintendo no
Speaker 1: longer holds live press events at E three. They elect
Speaker 1: instead to do a video presentation called Nintendo Direct. The
Speaker 1: company does still maintain a presence on the show floor itself, however,
Speaker 1: Starting in two thousand fifteen, the EESA began to release
Speaker 1: a limited number of tickets for the general public for
Speaker 1: E three, and in two thousand seventeen that would blossom
Speaker 1: into the policy of selling several thousand public passes to
Speaker 1: average video gamers. That has prompted some people like me
Speaker 1: to really dread going to the show because the added
Speaker 1: crowds make it super hard to get work done. I
Speaker 1: don't begrudge anyone having a good time. It's just hard
Speaker 1: to cover stuff if you can't get to any of it.
Speaker 1: And it's a similar concern that led to the E
Speaker 1: s A making that big drastic change in two thousand seven.
Speaker 1: But so far it doesn't look like it's going to
Speaker 1: repeat that now this past E three. The two thousand
Speaker 1: nineteen E three saw Sony abstain from attending. That was
Speaker 1: a big blow to the conference in general. I mean,
Speaker 1: having a major console and games publisher, UH decide not
Speaker 1: to go to your trade show is not great. Although
Speaker 1: there were plenty of publishers that were showing off games
Speaker 1: that would play on Sony PlayStations, Sony itself wasn't there.
Speaker 1: Other big names like e A have also opted to
Speaker 1: hold their own press events on their own terms rather
Speaker 1: than run a press conference at E three itself. Moreover,
Speaker 1: companies like Blizzard have been holding their own events for
Speaker 1: several years, and there are other big conventions like Packs
Speaker 1: that are designed from the start to be events where
Speaker 1: video game enthusiasts get a chance to try out games
Speaker 1: before they come out, and it gives game publishers the
Speaker 1: chance to connect with their fan bases. So all of
Speaker 1: this leads us to ask the question, is E three
Speaker 1: still relevant with all of these changes that have happened.
Speaker 1: The original intent was to create a space where the
Speaker 1: relatively niche hobby of video games could be in the spotlight.
Speaker 1: But today the video game industry is enormous and its mainstream.
Speaker 1: It's no longer the relatively obscure business that was the
Speaker 1: laughing stock of the consumer electronics industry back in According
Speaker 1: to the market analysis company new Zoo, the industry the
Speaker 1: video game industry in general, earned just shy of one
Speaker 1: thirty five billion dollars in revenue in two thousand eighteen.
Speaker 1: That's about three times as much revenue as the film industry,
Speaker 1: So video games are making three times as much money
Speaker 1: per year as movies. That's major in the Internet age,
Speaker 1: when it is relatively easy and less expensive to produce
Speaker 1: a video or do a live stream and to reach
Speaker 1: a huge audience on your own schedule, and where there
Speaker 1: are already other events to cater to touching base with gamers,
Speaker 1: does it make sense to keep holding E three or
Speaker 1: should something change? Well, when we come back, I'll be
Speaker 1: talking with Shannon Morse, who attended E three two thousand,
Speaker 1: nineteen to get her perspective on the event and its future.
Speaker 1: But first, let's take a quick break al right, guys,
Speaker 1: joining me on this episode is a dear friend of mine,
Speaker 1: a superstar when it comes to the world of reporting
Speaker 1: on technology, hacker extraordinaire, and just an incredible person. One
Speaker 1: of the most friendly people in tech I've ever had
Speaker 1: the pleasure of meeting, Shannon Morse. Shannon, welcome back to
Speaker 1: the show. Hi, Jonathan, thank you for having me back on.
Speaker 1: It's super exciting to be here. I love whenever we
Speaker 1: have you on. You always have great insight. And uh
Speaker 1: and I'm not joking, folks. She's like, they're like a
Speaker 1: couple of people on a short list of people in
Speaker 1: tech who have been consistently awesome. Shannon's on that list.
Speaker 1: Tom Merritt is on that list. There are very few
Speaker 1: and far between, so you are a treasure. Shannon tom Merritt's.
Speaker 1: Tom Merritt is one of my mentors, so I definitely
Speaker 1: look up to him and I will thank you. That
Speaker 1: was really really sweet of you to say absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's all true, so it's easy. But
Speaker 1: more importantly, for the purposes of this show. We are
Speaker 1: going to talk to Shannon about her experience at E
Speaker 1: three nineteen, because, as I've already explained, I did not
Speaker 1: go to that show. But Shannon, you did attend E
Speaker 1: three twenty nineteen. Can you tell us what you were
Speaker 1: there doing and you know what was your experience like
Speaker 1: this past year? Yeah? Sure, So I have been to
Speaker 1: E three in the past, back in like twenty fourteen,
Speaker 1: so this was my second time going to E three
Speaker 1: as a video host slash producer. So this time I
Speaker 1: was there with n Video g Force. They have their
Speaker 1: own YouTube channel, and I was just doing a bunch
Speaker 1: of interviews with a bunch of game developers. Uh So
Speaker 1: I was specifically with them for one day before the
Speaker 1: show floor opened up to the public, and then the
Speaker 1: second day I asked them if I could just stay
Speaker 1: an extra day and I ran around on my own
Speaker 1: to get my own vlogs for my personal channel, which
Speaker 1: is YouTube dot com slash Shannon Morris. I hope you
Speaker 1: don't mind that I promote at all, but yeah, but
Speaker 1: the second day it did open up to the public
Speaker 1: after I believe it was one PM, So I got
Speaker 1: to experience both sides, one being it just for you know,
Speaker 1: trade workers, people that are in the game developer trade
Speaker 1: or there as press. And then I also got to
Speaker 1: see it opened up to the public, so it was
Speaker 1: kind of interesting seeing it from both perspectives and being
Speaker 1: on the show floor to watch that happen. Uh. And
Speaker 1: that was the first time that it was open to
Speaker 1: the public, since it wasn't originally when I when I
Speaker 1: first went to E three. Yeah, yeah, when the last
Speaker 1: time I went to E three, I think it was
Speaker 1: the second year that they started selling tickets to the public.
Speaker 1: You know, as you say, for years, it was industry
Speaker 1: only and you were only going in if you were
Speaker 1: a developer, publisher, if you were a retailer or an
Speaker 1: analyst in the industry, or you were pressed. That was
Speaker 1: essentially the group. And then press got real lucy goosey. Uh,
Speaker 1: just like at C E S where we have everything
Speaker 1: from the big outlets, you know, the big the really
Speaker 1: big established media companies too, you know mom and pop
Speaker 1: blogs that are run by you know, Joe or Jane
Speaker 1: video gamer extraordinaire. And that's the only reason why I
Speaker 1: was ever able to go. So I'm not I'm not
Speaker 1: denigrated to get it by any means, but it was
Speaker 1: a very different experience when I saw that too, like
Speaker 1: the idea that opening it up and having a very
Speaker 1: enthusiastic gaming public come in. What was your perception of
Speaker 1: how that was received? Because I have my own thoughts,
Speaker 1: but I don't want to I don't want to color
Speaker 1: your perception with mine. I'd rather hear what you thought
Speaker 1: first and then we can talk about it. I Well,
Speaker 1: my perception is that I honestly felt like this year's
Speaker 1: E three was smaller, And it might have been because
Speaker 1: some major game manuf brands like Microsoft, for example, Xbox,
Speaker 1: they weren't there on the show floor. Neither was Sony,
Speaker 1: and that was really really big news before the convention
Speaker 1: even happened. And even so, when a lot of people
Speaker 1: came in as the public at one pm, uh, the
Speaker 1: lines were super long. They were crazy, crazy long, and
Speaker 1: it just it felt a little bit disappointing in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways. Uh, just because the show floor felt
Speaker 1: really small. It felt like it was a little overcrowded
Speaker 1: when the public came in, and there were hours and
Speaker 1: hours long lines. So when I was there just on
Speaker 1: my own without the end video crew, it was almost
Speaker 1: impossible for me to play any games because the lines,
Speaker 1: like at the Nintino booth were four hours long. So honestly,
Speaker 1: I was I was a little bit disappointed that it
Speaker 1: was open to the public, and I think that if
Speaker 1: they had planned it differently like a lot of other
Speaker 1: expos do, like Games Calm and things like that, then
Speaker 1: it could have gone a lot more smoother with the
Speaker 1: public entering, uh, and then be a lot easier to
Speaker 1: get your job done if you are in the industry
Speaker 1: and still have a really good time. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: even when I go to video game conferences as public,
Speaker 1: because I don't always go as pressed because I like
Speaker 1: to play video games too. I really like it whenever
Speaker 1: I can either you know, set up a meeting or
Speaker 1: set up a time that I can go to a
Speaker 1: booth and play a video game, or the lines are
Speaker 1: are set up so that everything goes really smoothly, like
Speaker 1: they have a whole bunch of different people playing games
Speaker 1: so that like at different times, so that the line
Speaker 1: just keeps on moving and it doesn't feel like you're
Speaker 1: sitting there for four hours. So that was kind of unfortunate,
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I feel like maybe they should
Speaker 1: move to a new venue. I have so many thoughts
Speaker 1: about this. I have so many thoughts. Yeah, I so
Speaker 1: my my beliefs. By the way, that's if you can
Speaker 1: hear Shannon's kitty cat in the background. And I no, no no,
Speaker 1: I'm fully in favor of having kitty cats on tech stuff.
Speaker 1: If I were allowed to bring cats into the office,
Speaker 1: we would have them. But no, I was gonna say
Speaker 1: that my perception is very much the same as yours,
Speaker 1: and that from from a press perspective, it is frustrating
Speaker 1: because it makes your job harder to do. And I
Speaker 1: don't want to say that, you know, other people shouldn't
Speaker 1: have a good time so that I can do my
Speaker 1: job and that I get to have all the fun
Speaker 1: and no one else does. That's not what I mean.
Speaker 1: But I do mean that things where you might have
Speaker 1: been able to cover maybe a dozen stories in a
Speaker 1: day if you were really booking it, you're down to
Speaker 1: maybe three in a in a typical day. And that's
Speaker 1: even booking the meetings with the different publishers. And then
Speaker 1: as a I had four meetings booked the first day
Speaker 1: and that's it. That's all we were able to get
Speaker 1: in for just because it was so overcrowding. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And then, like if I were there as a ticket holder,
Speaker 1: let's say that I'm there as general public, so no
Speaker 1: longer wearing the press hat, I would have a very
Speaker 1: frustrating experience. As you already alluded to this problem of
Speaker 1: standing in line for a very long time to play
Speaker 1: a maybe a ten minute slice of a video game,
Speaker 1: because your perception of what you're you have going into
Speaker 1: it is that you're going to have a chance to
Speaker 1: play a game before anyone else does. So it puts
Speaker 1: you in an elite group. And there's there's already an
Speaker 1: attraction to being part of an elite group, right you
Speaker 1: are part of a special few that were able to
Speaker 1: experience something before anyone else did. That's something that we
Speaker 1: all kind of crave at one time or another. I'm
Speaker 1: sure there have been times where you've had chance to
Speaker 1: get your hands on certain technology or go to see
Speaker 1: a movie before anyone else, and it's impossible to deny
Speaker 1: there is this sense of being special by being part
Speaker 1: of that group. And you know, in the grand scheme,
Speaker 1: you take a big step back, you think, oh, that
Speaker 1: might seem a little petty. I'm saying that someone who
Speaker 1: experiences that whenever it happens to me, I I am
Speaker 1: not so big that I don't still feel like who
Speaker 1: I get a chance to do something special? So I
Speaker 1: get the appeal, but the problem is the reality is
Speaker 1: the capacity is limited. There's usually a handful of titles
Speaker 1: that everyone really wants to check out, which means that
Speaker 1: those areas are completely slammed. Nintendo, just as a brand,
Speaker 1: is always in that group. I remember waiting in line
Speaker 1: to get a chance to try out the three D
Speaker 1: three D S when it first came out, and I
Speaker 1: remember Brian tong of seen that passing me by and
Speaker 1: he's like, strickling, why are you in this line. I'm like,
Speaker 1: because I don't have a pass like you do for this.
Speaker 1: And this was before the general public was allowed in,
Speaker 1: so I was there was no general public that year,
Speaker 1: and so Tom's like, well, I'm just gonna go up
Speaker 1: to the front. I'm like, yeah, you worn't for seen it.
Speaker 1: Of course you're going to go up to the front.
Speaker 1: I don't get to do that. So he even belonged
Speaker 1: to an even more elite group. Uh. But but this
Speaker 1: is the sort of frustration you can experience, and it
Speaker 1: makes me question about the wisdom of laying the general
Speaker 1: public in not because it makes my job harder, but
Speaker 1: because I wonder if it does more harm than good,
Speaker 1: because I can't imagine it's a very positive experience for
Speaker 1: your average attendee. No, it can't be. And I even
Speaker 1: looked at the day of prices for tickets as general public,
Speaker 1: and they were over nine dollars if you decided to
Speaker 1: purchase the day of. The reasoning on E three's website
Speaker 1: was to you know, keep it from getting too overcrowded.
Speaker 1: So on their website they said something along the line
Speaker 1: of to prevent overcrowdedness. Day of tickets purchased at the
Speaker 1: convention floor over nine and I was like, that's insane.
Speaker 1: So it feels like to me, this is purely my opinion,
Speaker 1: but it feels like E three is trying to make
Speaker 1: people online happy by introducing a public time that people
Speaker 1: can come in no matter who you are. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, they're not growing out the venue space,
Speaker 1: they're not growing out the abilities for the boosts to
Speaker 1: get bigger or anything like that. To help with that
Speaker 1: huge change. They're trying to turn it into a convention,
Speaker 1: but it's still an expo for industry, and they're treating
Speaker 1: it like it's still industry even though they're allowing all
Speaker 1: this all the public in. I love going to public conventions.
Speaker 1: That's one of my favorite things to do. I love cosplay,
Speaker 1: I love playing video games like that is my life.
Speaker 1: I am a congoer for life. But going to this
Speaker 1: convention feels kind of confusing because they're dressing it to
Speaker 1: very business e but for the public persona, what they're
Speaker 1: telling people online is we're still relevant. You should come
Speaker 1: to this convention. And it's not a convention, it's an
Speaker 1: industry expo. It's just weird. It's like it would be
Speaker 1: like opening up c e s to the general public,
Speaker 1: which I don't even want to mention a nightmare, nightmare scenario,
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's It's one of those things where I
Speaker 1: agree that this this this mishmash of approaches where something
Speaker 1: that works for one type of event doesn't necessarily work
Speaker 1: for another, and you're you're getting you're not getting the
Speaker 1: best of both worlds, You're kind of getting the worst
Speaker 1: of both worlds, where it's getting very frustrating. I can't
Speaker 1: I don't know how developers feel about this, or publishers.
Speaker 1: I don't know if they find it frustrating with this experience.
Speaker 1: I am very curious about their opinions, but honestly, I've
Speaker 1: never been able to talk with them about what is
Speaker 1: your perspective this the way that the event has changed.
Speaker 1: Does that is that something that you view as a
Speaker 1: positive or is it something that ultimately you worry about,
Speaker 1: Because obviously, if the general public has a bad experience
Speaker 1: at E three, and it may have nothing to do
Speaker 1: with the actual quality of the game, it may reflect
Speaker 1: poorly on the games that are there, and then you
Speaker 1: get bad early buzz for a game that can kill
Speaker 1: a game before it even comes out, so that that
Speaker 1: has to be a worry too. Alright. Well, and there's
Speaker 1: still a lot of games that do introduce news at
Speaker 1: E three as opposed to doing their own personal show
Speaker 1: or introduction or promoting it at games Com. So E
Speaker 1: three still is the place where a lot of news happens.
Speaker 1: It's just not treating itself like that. Well that that
Speaker 1: seguys really nicely into this discussion that comes up every year.
Speaker 1: I remember I did a search, just sort of a
Speaker 1: cursory search of is E three relevant? And you know,
Speaker 1: there's no shortage of articles that pop up, and one
Speaker 1: of the earliest ones came from two thousand twelve, long
Speaker 1: before they opened it up to the public, so this
Speaker 1: has clearly been been an ongoing annual exercise. I think
Speaker 1: I think we we have the the life cycle of
Speaker 1: E three each year is here's the hype before the show,
Speaker 1: here's all the rumors, here are all the guesses of
Speaker 1: what's going to be shown off, who's going to come
Speaker 1: out with a new console. Then you have the initial
Speaker 1: announcements that pre date E three, and people say, well,
Speaker 1: what's left to say at E three now that these
Speaker 1: other things have been announced. Then you have E three itself,
Speaker 1: and you have the endless amount of analysis that comes
Speaker 1: out of that. Then post E three, after everyone's got
Speaker 1: that sort of the concrude, they're like, hey, is there
Speaker 1: any reason to even have this thing anymore? That seems
Speaker 1: to be every year, So Shannon, is there any reason
Speaker 1: to have this thing anymore? I think it still holds
Speaker 1: a little bit of a place in my heart as
Speaker 1: well a lot of other people who like to go
Speaker 1: there and be the first person to play a video game,
Speaker 1: So in that sense, like it's still really fun to
Speaker 1: do so, but in the grand scheme of things, you
Speaker 1: don't really need a big convention like E three. That's
Speaker 1: for industry professional but but as inviting the public. I
Speaker 1: feel like, and a lot of people feel this way
Speaker 1: about C E S two. You can stay at home
Speaker 1: now and get all the news that you need, and
Speaker 1: you can pre order the games and still get early
Speaker 1: access to whatever you want. So in the day and
Speaker 1: age of social media, and in the day and age
Speaker 1: of being able to contact a lot of these brands directly,
Speaker 1: you might not need this kind of industry event anymore. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I see that the Internet has really enabled companies to
Speaker 1: reach out to their their fan base directly and you
Speaker 1: can circumvent the need for the big centralized event. It
Speaker 1: also means that if you take that approach, then you
Speaker 1: can announce things on your schedule as opposed to a
Speaker 1: centralized schedule. We've seen this with C E S. I
Speaker 1: mean my first year of going to C E S
Speaker 1: I believe was the final year that Microsoft was there,
Speaker 1: and then Microsoft pulled out the following year, and the
Speaker 1: justification was, well, why should we have an annual event
Speaker 1: that's not under our own control where we're expected to
Speaker 1: announce all the things we plan to do that year.
Speaker 1: We would much rather do that on our own schedule.
Speaker 1: This is of course something that Apple had been doing
Speaker 1: for years and would continue to do so over the
Speaker 1: following years, and you're starting to see that with game
Speaker 1: companies to Nintendo holds Nintendo directs on a fairly regular basis,
Speaker 1: not just around E three, but also at other times
Speaker 1: of the year. PlayStation has their events that they're doing.
Speaker 1: E A has held their own events, So we're not
Speaker 1: just seeing it from console makers, we're seeing it from
Speaker 1: publishers as well. And whether you're holding an actual event,
Speaker 1: like a physical location where people are coming and they're
Speaker 1: playing the games, or you're more like Nintendo where you
Speaker 1: produce a video ahead of time, which helps you really
Speaker 1: cut down on those cringeworthy segments because you can edit
Speaker 1: those after you've shot them. Very Yeah, we missed the
Speaker 1: cringe worthy segments because that's something for us to talk about,
Speaker 1: but it's it works better for the company. Uh. But
Speaker 1: the fact that you can do that now removes a
Speaker 1: lot of the the arguments you would use to attend
Speaker 1: something like E three, And in fact, I would think
Speaker 1: that that's part of why Sony is like, yeah, let's
Speaker 1: just skip this one. We don't have a console to announce.
Speaker 1: We're not ready to talk about it yet. If we do,
Speaker 1: we can do it on our own time, and we
Speaker 1: can get all the headlines instead of fighting for the headlines.
Speaker 1: That's the other aspect, right, you don't get lost in
Speaker 1: the shuffle. Hey there, it's Jonathan from post interview with
Speaker 1: Shannon Morris. Shannon and I have a lot more to
Speaker 1: say about the E three experience and its relevance, but
Speaker 1: before we get to that, it's time to take another
Speaker 1: quick break. Hey, it's me again. We're going to rejoin
Speaker 1: the interview I did with Shannon Morris, and we're gonna
Speaker 1: pick up where we left off. She picks up about
Speaker 1: the merits of attending an event like E three. I
Speaker 1: would rather companies like that focus that insane budget that
Speaker 1: you have. You you would normally have to pay E
Speaker 1: three to even get a booth, and put it towards
Speaker 1: your developers, or put it to towards the people, the
Speaker 1: artists that are working on the game. Like I would
Speaker 1: much rather than focus all of that money on the
Speaker 1: video game, not going to this industry event just to
Speaker 1: show off the game at at this one convention. Maybe
Speaker 1: maybe create a production cycle for the game in a
Speaker 1: way where you try to avoid the awful crunch time
Speaker 1: as much as possible, so people aren't working, you know,
Speaker 1: weeks and slowly dying or rapidly dying because we hear
Speaker 1: those stories all the time too. I agree with you
Speaker 1: on that as well. So what I think there, I
Speaker 1: think I'm with you. I think the E three still
Speaker 1: has a place. I think it almost needs to turn
Speaker 1: into something more akin to what you see with packs right,
Speaker 1: Like the Penny Arcade Expo is a totally fan focused
Speaker 1: It is not industry. It's a place where video game
Speaker 1: developers frequently will uh showcase games that are that are
Speaker 1: not yet released and give people the chance to play them.
Speaker 1: And the fact that it was designed first and foremost
Speaker 1: as a fan facing event means that it runs more
Speaker 1: smoothly in that context than E three would. So seeing
Speaker 1: E three transformed like that might be useful. Um. I
Speaker 1: think that a lot. The way the three goes now,
Speaker 1: the way it continues, it almost seems like it's an
Speaker 1: argument to keep the E s a relevant uh, which
Speaker 1: that's the organization that throws E three, that the organizes
Speaker 1: E three. The fact that they opened it up to
Speaker 1: public tells me a lot about that. There's also been
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of like rumors and and
Speaker 1: nasty news coming out like fighting within the EESA over
Speaker 1: the last couple of years, that it doesn't make headlines
Speaker 1: for most video game journals. I mean, there's some up there.
Speaker 1: Polygon will always cover that kind of stuff, but a
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of industry magazines haven't really covered it.
Speaker 1: But the fact that there's been a lot of internal
Speaker 1: drama at the organization that throws this also brings up
Speaker 1: the question of relevance, or at least how healthy is
Speaker 1: the event. Um. I would like to see it kind
Speaker 1: of skew away from the trade side. The only thing
Speaker 1: that makes me nervous about that is there are some developers,
Speaker 1: some publishers, especially the Independence, that are pretty small and
Speaker 1: they depend on E three for discovery. Uh. It tends
Speaker 1: to be the stuff that doesn't necessarily make the big
Speaker 1: stage at any of the press events, but people will
Speaker 1: discover it on the floor and then it will generate. Uh.
Speaker 1: The one I think about that I had not heard
Speaker 1: about at all until I encountered it on the show
Speaker 1: floor was Octo Dad, which was such a bizarre game,
Speaker 1: such a weird game, and such a challenging and fun
Speaker 1: concept and uh so different from everything else you were seeing.
Speaker 1: It wasn't a shooter, it wasn't a racing game, it
Speaker 1: wasn't a sports game. You were an octopus posing as
Speaker 1: a human being who had pulled the wall over your
Speaker 1: family's eyes, and you had to try and maneuver these
Speaker 1: crazy limbs of yours. There's a phenomenal concept that I
Speaker 1: don't think would have ever gotten the notice that it
Speaker 1: did without its presence at E three. So in those
Speaker 1: cases I get a little nervous because there's some actual
Speaker 1: great work that otherwise wouldn't be discovered without E three.
Speaker 1: The problem I see is that for all the other
Speaker 1: bigger names out there, why not just have your own
Speaker 1: event or have your own internet like based event where
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily people coming to play the game, but
Speaker 1: at least they get to see what the announcements are
Speaker 1: um and it frees you up to not having to
Speaker 1: worry about having this this external schedule where you may
Speaker 1: or may not have anything to show, you know, and
Speaker 1: it means that maybe Bethesda would get a break for
Speaker 1: not having more Skyrim stuff to show off. For example,
Speaker 1: you know the Elder Scroll stuff. Um, Yeah, everyone starts
Speaker 1: yelling at companies when they have teased something and then
Speaker 1: like a year goes by and you don't get an update.
Speaker 1: And that's because the development cycle for video games has
Speaker 1: grown to be longer than for a feature length film. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's a very long time. And one one thing that
Speaker 1: I did see from a lot of the companies that
Speaker 1: I interviewed at E three was they did not have
Speaker 1: news for us, Like they didn't announce anything new. They
Speaker 1: were just giving us a few little updates here and there,
Speaker 1: or talking to us about the technology and the game
Speaker 1: like just sneezed. But as as it goes for you know,
Speaker 1: release dates and when they're going to introduce ray tracing
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, a lot of the companies just
Speaker 1: couldn't share that information with us. So at those points,
Speaker 1: I would much prefer that they just have their own
Speaker 1: press event and share their event or share their news
Speaker 1: at that event, as opposed to feeling, you know, kind
Speaker 1: of stressed about E three or feeling like they're forced
Speaker 1: to go through there, because I feel like some may
Speaker 1: not necessarily be ready, and it would be a lot
Speaker 1: more beneficial for those game developers to just you know,
Speaker 1: do their announcements on their own terms as opposed to
Speaker 1: having to do it at E three. But you make
Speaker 1: a really really valid point when it comes to independence
Speaker 1: independent games game manufacturers. You see this at like g
Speaker 1: DC as well, Like they really really value those events
Speaker 1: quite a bit because those are the only times that
Speaker 1: you see a lot of press and journalists go out
Speaker 1: and check out all these interesting things that they can
Speaker 1: find on the show floor. You see the same thing
Speaker 1: at CS to like some of the biggest hits are
Speaker 1: just the worst, random and weirdest things. But indie game
Speaker 1: manufacturing definitely does rely on those kind of events. So
Speaker 1: maybe E three, instead of trying to focus on trying
Speaker 1: to get this middle ground of we're going to be
Speaker 1: a public conference as well as E three expo for industry,
Speaker 1: do one or the other, like do g d C
Speaker 1: or do games Com slash packs, but stop trying to
Speaker 1: confuse everybody and stick them both into the same venue
Speaker 1: space which is way too small for everybody. Yeah, or
Speaker 1: if you're gonna be E three, then focus, maybe change
Speaker 1: your focus to be on things like the smaller developers,
Speaker 1: the independent developers, so that those are the focus, because again,
Speaker 1: the big companies they're pulling out anyway. So if they're
Speaker 1: pulling out anyway, then change the thrust of your show. Two.
Speaker 1: Put these other ones on a pestle, even if they
Speaker 1: were too, to separate out the event more where you
Speaker 1: have kind of like C e S where you have
Speaker 1: the press days before the actual show floor opens. Now, granted,
Speaker 1: on those days you're not typically touring the show floor
Speaker 1: because those booths are still rapidly being put the duct
Speaker 1: tape and spit and everything. If you've ever been to
Speaker 1: c S before the show floor officially opened, you've seen
Speaker 1: people just frantically trying to get a booth in shape.
Speaker 1: Um all everything happens all the way up to and
Speaker 1: including when the doors open on that first day, so
Speaker 1: there's not much for you to be able to actually do.
Speaker 1: But if they were to divide up the show so
Speaker 1: that they said, all right, let's say it's gonna be
Speaker 1: a three day event, and day one is going to
Speaker 1: be treated like it's a full open day, but it's
Speaker 1: just press. It's just press an industry, and that's it.
Speaker 1: So one day you get the normal sort of pre
Speaker 1: public E three experience, and then after that you make
Speaker 1: it the public event. It's still hard to do because
Speaker 1: you still are working within the same facility, So it's
Speaker 1: not like you can magically make the booths, you know,
Speaker 1: change in modular form. Yeah, they don't get larger, better
Speaker 1: traffic flow, but at the at the very least you
Speaker 1: can at you can, which they sort of did this
Speaker 1: past year. It sounds like with the the one o'clock
Speaker 1: opening time, you at least got the first half of
Speaker 1: the day, but still that's that's limited. Um. I remember
Speaker 1: one year I went to E three and I was
Speaker 1: waiting in line with everybody else to get in because,
Speaker 1: as far as I could tell, my badge just allowed
Speaker 1: me in normal hours. But the person, one of the
Speaker 1: security people working the line walked up and saw my
Speaker 1: badge and they said, you know, you can go in
Speaker 1: right now. I said what, The show floor doesn't open
Speaker 1: for another like fifteen minutes. Said oh no, no, your
Speaker 1: badge allows you to go in right now. All right,
Speaker 1: So I walk in, but no one was no one
Speaker 1: was ready to show anything. So it didn't like if
Speaker 1: I had had an appointment, it would have been fine,
Speaker 1: but I didn't have an appointment, so really I just
Speaker 1: felt like I was an extra person in a giant convention.
Speaker 1: Hall that looked lost because that who what I was.
Speaker 1: I couldn't I couldn't actually do it. There weren't any
Speaker 1: games to play or anything yet everyone was hurriedly setting
Speaker 1: up their booths. So I do like that. I do
Speaker 1: like that E three has the press hours or the
Speaker 1: industry hours before the public comes in. UM. But it's
Speaker 1: it feels like they the location in the physical space
Speaker 1: is just big enough for industry. It doesn't feel like
Speaker 1: it's big enough to be inviting the public in as
Speaker 1: well as you know, regular attendees. UM. So I think
Speaker 1: that it would be a lot better if they moved
Speaker 1: to a larger venue to introduce a lot more people,
Speaker 1: and to allow the boothmakers as well, to broaden how
Speaker 1: large their boots are and how many games they're allowed
Speaker 1: to you know, set up there. Yeah, my cats sitting
Speaker 1: in a box. If it fits it sits Yes. I
Speaker 1: remember I remember a year at E three where um,
Speaker 1: I think it was it was probably which company was it.
Speaker 1: I remember that there was one year where it was
Speaker 1: this enormous booth and it looked amazing from the outside,
Speaker 1: but it was also invitation only, and I did not
Speaker 1: have an invitation, and so that was one of those
Speaker 1: experiences too that gets frustrating, and that still happens as well,
Speaker 1: where you have certain exhibitors who they do appointment only
Speaker 1: uh showings, so you can't just walk up and play stuff.
Speaker 1: So there's also that experience which can be a negative one.
Speaker 1: If you bought a ticket to go and then you're like, well,
Speaker 1: I can't even play everything that's on here because I'm
Speaker 1: not even allowed into that space. That ends up getting
Speaker 1: across message across signal as well, right, because you're thinking
Speaker 1: I bought a pass and now you're telling me that
Speaker 1: the past is not good for what I want to do.
Speaker 1: It feels like it almost feels like a bait and switch,
Speaker 1: even though for those of us who have covered E
Speaker 1: three for years, we know that's just the way certain
Speaker 1: things work. That certain developers they're like, yeah, we we
Speaker 1: will arrange ahead of time when you can come and
Speaker 1: tour the booth, play the games, talk to developers. But
Speaker 1: otherwise if you haven't done that, you're out of luck
Speaker 1: because there's no walk ups. So that's also a challenge.
Speaker 1: I agree with you, I think that really if they
Speaker 1: want to have this public facing approach, which I understand
Speaker 1: their reasoning, for doing so, they need to move to
Speaker 1: a different venue. Uh, the I'm not sure that there
Speaker 1: is one in Los Angeles that would really fit the bill.
Speaker 1: The convention center is pretty big, but it's not big
Speaker 1: enough for what they want to do. You would pretty
Speaker 1: much have to go to someplace like Orlando, which has
Speaker 1: enormous convention centers, or of course Las Vegas, known for
Speaker 1: c e S. Even c e S has way outgrown
Speaker 1: the convention center. They have the complete Sands Expo Center
Speaker 1: is filled as well as the Las Vegas Convention Center.
Speaker 1: And then there are plenty of hotels that host their
Speaker 1: own booths and officially and otherwise that are connected to
Speaker 1: c e S. So it's it's I don't know what
Speaker 1: the solution is for them to go forward to this approach.
Speaker 1: If I had my druthers, they would go straight to
Speaker 1: the just trade industry route and say, let's scale it down.
Speaker 1: Scaling down is not necessarily a bad thing if we
Speaker 1: do it in the right way. They tried scaling down
Speaker 1: a few years ago, but that was like a disaster
Speaker 1: because it was kind of a such a drastic change
Speaker 1: that nearly killed the event for all time. That's when
Speaker 1: they turned it into kind of like it's all in
Speaker 1: business suits and we're just going to talk code and
Speaker 1: oh yeah, they took all the personality out. I mean, granted,
Speaker 1: it had gotten to the point where it becomes sort
Speaker 1: of a party con and it was hard to do business,
Speaker 1: but they overcorrected when they tried to address it. Sounds
Speaker 1: like it sounds like the separation between def Con and
Speaker 1: black Hat. Def Con is the party con for hackers
Speaker 1: while black Hat is the suits and tie convention for hackers. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's not a not a bad way of compared ring it.
Speaker 1: It was one of those things where it was just
Speaker 1: kind of getting out outrageous with things like booth babes
Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff, like the ridiculous over
Speaker 1: the top trying to attract anyone into any booth that
Speaker 1: they could switching over to well let's make this serious
Speaker 1: because we're we're an industry event um, and then trying
Speaker 1: to find some middle ground after that, which they did
Speaker 1: for a while. Then the opening up to the public
Speaker 1: change things again. So I think we both agree that
Speaker 1: E three probably still has a place, but in its
Speaker 1: current incarnation it is not fitting in well either as
Speaker 1: an outreach to gamers or as an industry event for
Speaker 1: people who are potentially going to carry games and stores,
Speaker 1: although who the heck does that anymore? Or the press
Speaker 1: covering it. Um, everything's online now digital now. So any
Speaker 1: other observations you made this year at E three, anything
Speaker 1: that particularly stood out to you before we conclude this
Speaker 1: part of our episode. What was your about covered everything?
Speaker 1: What was your favorite? Uh, definitely not the booth babes.
Speaker 1: There were both babes there at a like some kind
Speaker 1: of energy drink booth, which was very very unfortunate and
Speaker 1: disappointing that they were there. Yeah, my favorite thing was
Speaker 1: probably getting to play Borderlands too, and I did stand
Speaker 1: in line for two hours to play that game. Uh
Speaker 1: the blog day that I spent or Borderlands three. Yes,
Speaker 1: Borderlands three, and it was incredible and so fun, and
Speaker 1: they definitely made it worth it. They like had a
Speaker 1: swag bag at the end of it, and they did
Speaker 1: let you watch like a thirty minute demo of some
Speaker 1: of the new characters and the new maps, so they
Speaker 1: really made it something that was enjoyable. They even had
Speaker 1: like streamers set up in little glass boxes along the
Speaker 1: line so you could watch people streaming the game like
Speaker 1: a bunch of twitch streamers while you're walking down the line,
Speaker 1: so you can see, like, if you're a big fan
Speaker 1: of twitch streamers, you could see some of your like
Speaker 1: favorite celebs in these little glass boxes as if they
Speaker 1: were like in a little human zoo playing twitch games.
Speaker 1: So that was pretty cool. Well, I really like their booth.
Speaker 1: It was fun the twitch streamers. I know, being put
Speaker 1: into a zoo is not is not inappropriate, but these
Speaker 1: are things of mine. So I'm going to be a
Speaker 1: twitch streamer. I'm going to be a twitch streamer one
Speaker 1: of these days. So I think I would be perfectly
Speaker 1: fine if somebody stuck me in one of those little
Speaker 1: class boxes and told me to play a video game
Speaker 1: for two hours. Yeah, I was watching. I was watching
Speaker 1: some of those twitch streams at the time too, and yeah,
Speaker 1: and it was always interesting to see the the the
Speaker 1: different approaches to that. Also, it's it's nice because you
Speaker 1: see the agree, even the tacit agreement between publishers and
Speaker 1: streamers about how that relationship is valuable to both parties.
Speaker 1: Right that the streamers would not have a career where
Speaker 1: it not for these games, and the games get an
Speaker 1: incredible amount of uh publicity and support through the marketing
Speaker 1: that's done by these streamers. I mean, you could argue
Speaker 1: that games like Fortnite wouldn't be nearly the success that
Speaker 1: they were without the streaming community. So it's nice to
Speaker 1: see that that's one of those elements that has come
Speaker 1: up since I started going to E three that I
Speaker 1: think is um a positive. That's something that is also
Speaker 1: kind of bridging that gap between industry and fan outreach.
Speaker 1: But it is maybe they do just need to move
Speaker 1: more towards that that route and just say, let's take
Speaker 1: a more convention stance to this, but let's design it
Speaker 1: like a convention. Maybe bring some people over who have
Speaker 1: run those kind of events to redesign how E three works. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that would be amazing. Well, Shannon, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for joining us and telling us sort of your perspective
Speaker 1: on E three. It was useful to talk to somebody
Speaker 1: who actually went through it, and it was nice that
Speaker 1: you've got a chance to compare it to the earlier
Speaker 1: time when you went, when there was no public uh
Speaker 1: entry into the convention at all, so you had a
Speaker 1: chance to see it in both formats and kind of
Speaker 1: weigh them against each other. That's useful tell people where
Speaker 1: they can find all your stuffs. You can find all
Speaker 1: of my stuffs. You can follow me on Twitter, that's
Speaker 1: where I am most active. I am at snubs s
Speaker 1: and U b s and I just started uploading a
Speaker 1: ton of videos at my YouTube channel YouTube dot com
Speaker 1: slash Shannon Morse, which is just my full name, really
Speaker 1: easy to spell, which is where you can get tons
Speaker 1: of tech vlogs and travel well tech reviews and travel vlogs.
Speaker 1: That's what I should have said. So I do have
Speaker 1: a bunch of videos going out over there. Um, I've
Speaker 1: been very very active as well, so I really appreciate
Speaker 1: the support that everybody has been showing by subscribing. Yep,
Speaker 1: and uh, like I said, Shannon's awesome. You don't have
Speaker 1: to take my word for it. Just go check out
Speaker 1: her stuff and you'll you'll come to the same conclusion.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, the evidence is all there. And you
Speaker 1: can actually see my cat on the videos sometimes because
Speaker 1: she does annoyingly like to come on set, even though
Speaker 1: she was adorable. I I understand entirely. This is why
Speaker 1: I can no longer record at home, because my dog
Speaker 1: Tibolt would insert himself into He would yodel in the
Speaker 1: background of every recording, because if I'm talking and it's
Speaker 1: not to him, he is personally offended. So, Shannon, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for joining the show. I can't wait
Speaker 1: to have you back on. Thank you, Jonathan. It was
Speaker 1: a pleasure as always, and I really appreciate it. Once again,
Speaker 1: I want to thank Shannon for joining the show. And
Speaker 1: that's our look at E three and whether or not
Speaker 1: it's still relevant. I think you could come down on
Speaker 1: either side of that debate. But I also think that
Speaker 1: just about everyone would say that the event needs to
Speaker 1: evolve a bit in order for it to meet whatever
Speaker 1: goals it has set out for itself. It also needs
Speaker 1: to define those goals. What is the purpose of E three.
Speaker 1: It needs to be clear about that and to really
Speaker 1: make certain that the execution of the plan is done
Speaker 1: with those goals in mind, because as it stands right now,
Speaker 1: it's not entirely clear what E three is supposed to be,
Speaker 1: and therefore it's hard to say whether or not it's
Speaker 1: being successful. Lots of people are going to it, but
Speaker 1: is it actually achieving any goals. It's hard to say
Speaker 1: if you don't know what the goals are. Well, we'll
Speaker 1: see how this continues. I mean, there's no doubt that
Speaker 1: E three will come back again. They've already secured the
Speaker 1: Los Angeles Convention Center for twenty so I'm sure we
Speaker 1: will have another one to talk about in that year.
Speaker 1: But I do hope that the E s A is
Speaker 1: is putting some real genuine thought into what E three
Speaker 1: is and what it should be. And if that is
Speaker 1: a fan centric event, that's fine, it just needs to
Speaker 1: be designed like one. In the meantime, if you guys
Speaker 1: have any suggestions for future episodes of tech Stuff, let
Speaker 1: me know. You can send an email the addresses tech
Speaker 1: Stuff at how stuff works dot com or pop on
Speaker 1: by tech stuff podcast dot com. That's our website where
Speaker 1: we have an archive of all of our previous episodes,
Speaker 1: plus links to our social media accounts and to the
Speaker 1: online store, where every purchase you make goes to help
Speaker 1: the show and we greatly appreciate it, and I'll talk
Speaker 1: to you again really soon. Y. Tech Stuff is a
Speaker 1: production of i Heeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more
Speaker 1: podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.