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Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production of I Heart Radios,

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Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with

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Speaker 1: How Stuff Works and I heart Radio and I love

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Speaker 1: all things tech. And today we're gonna tackle a topic

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Speaker 1: that has become sort of an annual tradition in tech

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Speaker 1: journalism in general and video game journalism in particular, and

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Speaker 1: that is to discuss E three the Electronic Entertainment Expo

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Speaker 1: and whether or not there's still a place for E three,

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Speaker 1: Is it still relevant, and to really get an idea

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Speaker 1: of why we have this conversation, and we've been having

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Speaker 1: it over and over. I mean, the earliest article I

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Speaker 1: found with that sort of title was from two thousand twelve,

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Speaker 1: and I have no doubt that there are even earlier versions.

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Speaker 1: But to understand why we're asking that question, it would

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Speaker 1: behoove us to know more about the history of E three.

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Speaker 1: So back in several video game publishers came together to

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Speaker 1: create what was called the Interactive Digital Software Association or

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Speaker 1: i d s A. This is what would eventually become

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Speaker 1: the E s A, and that is the organization that

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Speaker 1: oversees e three, but in the original days it was

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Speaker 1: the I D s A. And the purpose was to

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Speaker 1: form a group that could create industry standards for rating

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Speaker 1: video games, in other words, to indicate whether or not

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Speaker 1: the game was appropriate for certain age groups, so very

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Speaker 1: similar to the m p A, a rating system for movies.

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Speaker 1: So if you've ever picked up a video game and

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Speaker 1: you've seen the rating system on there, that's from this organization.

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Speaker 1: And this was in response to the threat of the

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Speaker 1: United States government stepping in and regulating the industry itself.

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Speaker 1: Joe Lieberman had proposed the Video Games Rating Act, so

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Speaker 1: to get ahead of this and to make sure that

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Speaker 1: the industry could remain in control of its own destiny, publishers,

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Speaker 1: lots of the major video game publishers got together and

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Speaker 1: created the I D s A and the ratings system.

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Speaker 1: And the I D s A didn't just stop with

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Speaker 1: the rating system. That was its primary purpose for coming

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Speaker 1: into being, but they came up with another idea in

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Speaker 1: addition to that, and that was to hold a trade

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Speaker 1: show exclusively for console and computer games. And this was

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Speaker 1: to address two big challenges. The first was a practical

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Speaker 1: challenge for I D essay itself. They needed to have

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Speaker 1: some way to fund this organization. If it was going

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Speaker 1: to exist to give out these ratings, it had to

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Speaker 1: have enough money to operate. So how could the organization

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Speaker 1: generate money on in that instance? And and the trade

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Speaker 1: show was tried and true method, so that was reason one,

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Speaker 1: a practical reason just to keep the I d s

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Speaker 1: A going, But reason too to do with visibility. Previously,

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Speaker 1: game companies would exhibit at shows like the Consumer Electronics

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Speaker 1: Show or ce S in the United States, but that's

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Speaker 1: an enormous show of all consumer electronics as a broad

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Speaker 1: approach to electronics, and video games would get lost in

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Speaker 1: the shuffle. They were often pushed off to a remote location,

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Speaker 1: far from the main traffic of the floor. Sometimes they'd

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Speaker 1: be put in environments that were really unsuitable for showing

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Speaker 1: off hardware. There's a famous story that Sega was determined

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Speaker 1: not to go back to c e S after being

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Speaker 1: put in a tent in a parking lot and during

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Speaker 1: a rainstorm, that tent proved to be less than waterproof,

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Speaker 1: and so water was leaking down on video game consoles

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Speaker 1: and that was unacceptable. So video game developers and publishers

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Speaker 1: found it really difficult to meet with retailers and press

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Speaker 1: in order to get their products into stores and to

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Speaker 1: promote their products. In other words, they were spending a

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Speaker 1: lot of money going to these trade shows and they

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Speaker 1: weren't getting much out of it. And back in those days,

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Speaker 1: which would be the early to mid nineteen nineties, video

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Speaker 1: games were more of a niche product. Even the best

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Speaker 1: selling video game of nine, which was at least according

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Speaker 1: to most sources, Mortal Kombat three. Even that could be

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Speaker 1: measured in the hundreds of thousands of copies sold. That's

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Speaker 1: not bad, but today when you look at best selling games,

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Speaker 1: those can hit several million copies sold. So it seemed

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Speaker 1: like a good idea to organize an industry focused event

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Speaker 1: just for video and computer games. Companies would get an

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Speaker 1: opportunity to showcase new hardware and new video game titles

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Speaker 1: to retailers and to the press, and not have to

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Speaker 1: worry about being shoved off in a tent in a

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Speaker 1: parking lot far from the main show floor of an

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Speaker 1: event like C E S Now. At first, the I

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Speaker 1: D SAY approached Gary Shapiro, that's the head hauncho of

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Speaker 1: the C E S Trade show in those days, and

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Speaker 1: the I D S a reps made their case to them.

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Speaker 1: They actually were first saying, can we get better, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, better consideration at c S. Can we get

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Speaker 1: a better arrangement? But Shapiro's response was fairly dismissive. He

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Speaker 1: essentially said, you guys aren't making quote unquote real consumer electronics,

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Speaker 1: so they're not going to get a prime spot for

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Speaker 1: the show. And word of this meeting between the I

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Speaker 1: D s A and Shapiro got back to a guy

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Speaker 1: named Pat Farrell, and Pat Farrell was in charge of

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Speaker 1: the Game Pro magazine and it was also at that

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Speaker 1: time part of a media conglomerate I d G, and

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Speaker 1: I d G already had experience running big industry events.

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Speaker 1: I d G would run mac World. So Farrell expressed

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Speaker 1: interest to the I D S essay for pitching a

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Speaker 1: trade show idea to them. But then that information got

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Speaker 1: back to Shapiro, you know, the guy running C E S.

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Speaker 1: And when he heard that, he had a sudden change

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Speaker 1: of heart, or more likely he since the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: make some real cash, and he announced that C E

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Speaker 1: S intended to launch its own games only trade show,

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Speaker 1: and the I D s A was kind of delighted

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Speaker 1: because now they had two different parties that were eager

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Speaker 1: to do this thing that they wanted to do, and

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Speaker 1: so they invited both parties to pitch their ideas to them,

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Speaker 1: and the two pitches were about as different as night

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Speaker 1: and day. Shapiro's team was citing facts and figures and

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Speaker 1: arguing that the prestige of c E s could raise

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Speaker 1: the profile of the video games industry in general. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: Pat Ferrell's pitch was from the point of view of

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Speaker 1: video game companies, and more importantly, it included an offer

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Speaker 1: of partial ownership in the trade show itself. The I

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Speaker 1: D s A would get around a five percent take

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Speaker 1: of the gross revenue generated by the trade show. Shapiro,

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Speaker 1: on the other hand, pretty much was demanding full ownership

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Speaker 1: of the trade show, so it was kind of a

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Speaker 1: no brainer. The I D s A chose to side

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Speaker 1: with the I D G slash Ferrell approach. Now that's

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Speaker 1: not to say that all the companies in the video

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Speaker 1: game industry were totally on board. Nintendo and Microsoft, for example,

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Speaker 1: two big names. Though Microsoft had yet to launch its

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Speaker 1: own video game console, it was still very much involved

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Speaker 1: in the video game world. Both of those companies chose

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Speaker 1: to continue exhibiting with the c e S approach. In fact,

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Speaker 1: they said, well, we'll go with the c e S

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Speaker 1: backed video game trade show. At least at first, that's

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Speaker 1: what they've said. Now that would change pretty quickly, but

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Speaker 1: it did show how in the early days there was

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Speaker 1: a lot of doubt about this endeavor and whether I

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Speaker 1: d G could pull it off. Farrell came up with

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Speaker 1: the name Electronic Entertainment Expo, and he would call it

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Speaker 1: e CUBED for short, but everybody else called it E

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Speaker 1: three and that name stuck. The original plan was to

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Speaker 1: hold the event in Las Vegas, and it was going

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Speaker 1: to be in mid summer. However, Shapiro planned the alternative

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Speaker 1: games focused show, the ce S backed version, and that

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Speaker 1: was going to happen in Philadelphia in mid May, so

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Speaker 1: he was setting a show that would predate Farrell's show.

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Speaker 1: He felt like he was being out maneuvered. Farrell that

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Speaker 1: it is, and he was worried that if companies would

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Speaker 1: commit to going to Shapiro's show, no one would commit

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Speaker 1: to E three. So Farrel did something fairly crazy. He

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Speaker 1: called up the Los Angeles Convention Center and he asked

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Speaker 1: if they had the availability for the exact same dates

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Speaker 1: as Shapiro's Philadelphia show, and it just so happened to

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Speaker 1: have those dates available. So that's when Farrell decided he

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Speaker 1: was not going to hold the event in Las Vegas,

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Speaker 1: and it would not be in Midsummer. Instead, it would

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Speaker 1: be in mid May in Los Angeles, which he thought

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Speaker 1: would be really attractive for Japanese companies because it would

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Speaker 1: be just a single flight into l a X, as

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Speaker 1: opposed to having to land in l a X and

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Speaker 1: then transfer to a different flight to fly all the

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Speaker 1: way over to Philadelphia. And then he got on the

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Speaker 1: horn and started to invite as many companies as possible

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Speaker 1: to exhibit at E three, and he figured there's no

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Speaker 1: way that these companies would be able to have a

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Speaker 1: presence at two shows simultaneously. They would have to pick

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Speaker 1: either E three or the C E S backed games

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Speaker 1: only show. Now, Microsoft and Nintendo continued to hold out.

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Speaker 1: They continued to back the C E S side, but

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Speaker 1: he got lots of other companies on board, and Shapiro

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Speaker 1: meanwhile found that it was getting harder and harder to

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Speaker 1: fill his show with companies. He had Microsoft and Nintendo

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Speaker 1: on board, but everybody else was signing with E three,

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Speaker 1: and he couldn't fill out the entire convention hall with

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Speaker 1: just two companies, so ultimately he decided that he had

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Speaker 1: to cancel this Philadelphia exhibition, and he reportedly called up

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Speaker 1: Farrell and said you won, and then hung up, And

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Speaker 1: so E three became the only game in town, so

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Speaker 1: to speak, pun intended, and that's when Microsoft and Nintendo

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Speaker 1: finally came over, because they really had no other alternative

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Speaker 1: at that point. Now, once it became the only game

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Speaker 1: trade show in the United States, E three suddenly had

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Speaker 1: no problem selling exhibition space in general. In fact, it

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Speaker 1: ran out of show floor space at the Convention Center

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Speaker 1: pretty quickly, and then they began to reserve hotel ballrooms

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Speaker 1: in nearby hotels, so it began to expand beyond just

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Speaker 1: the convention Center. Sega and Sony were both really big

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Speaker 1: presences at the At the show, they took up most

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Speaker 1: of one of the two main halls at the convention Center,

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Speaker 1: and they were both showing off new video game consoles,

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Speaker 1: the Saturn and the PlayStation. Nintendo showed off a very

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Speaker 1: early prototype of what would become the Nintendo sixty four,

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Speaker 1: but was mostly focus son S E S games at

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Speaker 1: that At that particular show, also they launched a beloved

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Speaker 1: platform called the Virtual Boy. And yes I'm being tongue

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Speaker 1: in cheek there. The Virtual Boy is one of the

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Speaker 1: famous flops from Nintendo, but they showed that off at

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Speaker 1: that first E three and you can actually see what

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Speaker 1: the first E three looked like. A guy named Anthony

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Speaker 1: Parisi uploaded more than three hours of video footage that

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Speaker 1: he shot during that show and it's available on YouTube. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He has footage of several press events which at that

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Speaker 1: time were much more business like in their presentation. I

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Speaker 1: mean think like power point presentations and guys in suits

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Speaker 1: speaking in monotone to a crowd, not very dynamic. And

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Speaker 1: later on those would obviously become much bigger budget showcases

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Speaker 1: for companies and have a lot of theater wrapped up

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Speaker 1: in it. But early in the E three history it

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Speaker 1: was much more business oriented. Many booths, once you were

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Speaker 1: on the show floor, would actually have a sort of

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Speaker 1: stage show to kind of attract people to the various

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Speaker 1: booths and and show off the games. And of course,

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Speaker 1: even at the very first E three there were the

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Speaker 1: so called booth babes, women who had been hired as

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Speaker 1: spokesmodels for those companies. The official estimate of attendees for

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Speaker 1: that first E three was at fifty five thousand people,

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Speaker 1: although Farrell says that the number was probably more than that.

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Speaker 1: It was enough to capture the attention of the mainstream media,

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Speaker 1: and thus it elevated the trade show in the eyes

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Speaker 1: of many, and it achieved one of the big goals

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Speaker 1: that the I D. S A had set in the

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Speaker 1: first place. The I D s A eventually would be

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Speaker 1: able to buy out I D G and become the

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Speaker 1: sole owner of the E three trade show, so the

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Speaker 1: show would grow, though there were some problems. Not every

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Speaker 1: year was a huge success. The third and fourth E

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Speaker 1: three had to move to a different venue. It ended

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Speaker 1: up moving here in Atlanta. That was because there were

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Speaker 1: scheduling conflicts with the Los Angeles Convention Center that had

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Speaker 1: already been booked for different events during the dates for

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Speaker 1: E three and UH the Atlanta shows were not as

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Speaker 1: well attended. It was only a temporary move. It kind

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Speaker 1: of bums me out because if it had all worked out,

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Speaker 1: I may be able to visit E three and still

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Speaker 1: sleep in my own bed each night, but that's not

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Speaker 1: how things turned out. The booths would slowly get more

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Speaker 1: elaborate over the years, becoming more immersive experiences. So instead

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Speaker 1: of it just being you know, a couple of polls

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Speaker 1: and some curtains to divide one booth from another, now

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Speaker 1: they have booths that are made to look like the

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Speaker 1: environments that were inspired by various games like sky Rim

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Speaker 1: or Fallout or whatever. Booth babes would continue to be

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Speaker 1: a thing, and the show got bigger and more elaborate

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Speaker 1: and more audacious each year, becoming more like a party

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Speaker 1: like atmosphere until two thousand seven. At that point, the

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Speaker 1: e essay, of course, was what the I D. S

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Speaker 1: A evolved into re evaluated the show, and the reason

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Speaker 1: they did that was because companies were starting to raise

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Speaker 1: concerns about the expense around securing and building out a

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Speaker 1: booth space at E three, because now it was costing

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Speaker 1: millions of dollars to do it, and there was a

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Speaker 1: growing number of attendees from smaller outlets like blogs, and

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Speaker 1: they were making the show floor really crowded, and more importantly,

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Speaker 1: they demonstrated a very small return on investment. That if

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Speaker 1: companies were catering to these bloggers, but the bloggers had

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Speaker 1: just a few or relatively few number of readers, then

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Speaker 1: that was not a great return on the investment of

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Speaker 1: time and effort on the part of the publishers, and

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Speaker 1: it was making really hard for industry attendees like retailers

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Speaker 1: and larger media outlets to actually get their jobs done

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Speaker 1: because of these crowds. And there were several companies that

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Speaker 1: were considering withdrawing from the show entirely, and that could

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Speaker 1: have caused a cascade effect with more companies pulling out,

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Speaker 1: like if the big companies pull out, then there's a

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Speaker 1: chance that the medium sized companies will pull out, and

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Speaker 1: then a chance that the smaller ones will pull out.

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Speaker 1: As such, the e s A decided to pare down

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Speaker 1: the two thousand seven and two thousand eight E three

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Speaker 1: events to kind of prevent this from happening and to

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Speaker 1: make it more manageable, and so two thousand seven it

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Speaker 1: would become the E three Media and Business Summit. And

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Speaker 1: it sounded like it wasn't much fun. It sounds like

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Speaker 1: it really wasn't like it was very much business oriented

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Speaker 1: and and uh also decentralized. It was spread out among

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Speaker 1: a host of hotels and meeting spaces in Los Angeles.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't in a centralized convention center. It was also

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Speaker 1: invitation only. There was an attendance of just ten thousand

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Speaker 1: people for those shows, and it was all trying to

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Speaker 1: meet these concerns, but the approach backfired. People began to

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Speaker 1: question whether or not E three really meant anything. They

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Speaker 1: felt that it wasn't raising the profile of the video

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Speaker 1: games anymore. So in two thousand nine, three would expand

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Speaker 1: back again, opening up for a much larger attendance, although

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Speaker 1: they still limited it. They capped it at forty or

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand really now since then the event has grown,

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Speaker 1: but some companies have withdrawn from E three. Nintendo no

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Speaker 1: longer holds live press events at E three. They elect

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Speaker 1: instead to do a video presentation called Nintendo Direct. The

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Speaker 1: company does still maintain a presence on the show floor itself, however,

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Speaker 1: Starting in two thousand fifteen, the EESA began to release

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Speaker 1: a limited number of tickets for the general public for

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Speaker 1: E three, and in two thousand seventeen that would blossom

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Speaker 1: into the policy of selling several thousand public passes to

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Speaker 1: average video gamers. That has prompted some people like me

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Speaker 1: to really dread going to the show because the added

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Speaker 1: crowds make it super hard to get work done. I

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Speaker 1: don't begrudge anyone having a good time. It's just hard

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Speaker 1: to cover stuff if you can't get to any of it.

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Speaker 1: And it's a similar concern that led to the E

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Speaker 1: s A making that big drastic change in two thousand seven.

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Speaker 1: But so far it doesn't look like it's going to

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Speaker 1: repeat that now this past E three. The two thousand

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Speaker 1: nineteen E three saw Sony abstain from attending. That was

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Speaker 1: a big blow to the conference in general. I mean,

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Speaker 1: having a major console and games publisher, UH decide not

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Speaker 1: to go to your trade show is not great. Although

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Speaker 1: there were plenty of publishers that were showing off games

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Speaker 1: that would play on Sony PlayStations, Sony itself wasn't there.

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Speaker 1: Other big names like e A have also opted to

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Speaker 1: hold their own press events on their own terms rather

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Speaker 1: than run a press conference at E three itself. Moreover,

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Speaker 1: companies like Blizzard have been holding their own events for

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Speaker 1: several years, and there are other big conventions like Packs

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Speaker 1: that are designed from the start to be events where

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Speaker 1: video game enthusiasts get a chance to try out games

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Speaker 1: before they come out, and it gives game publishers the

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Speaker 1: chance to connect with their fan bases. So all of

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Speaker 1: this leads us to ask the question, is E three

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Speaker 1: still relevant with all of these changes that have happened.

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Speaker 1: The original intent was to create a space where the

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Speaker 1: relatively niche hobby of video games could be in the spotlight.

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Speaker 1: But today the video game industry is enormous and its mainstream.

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Speaker 1: It's no longer the relatively obscure business that was the

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Speaker 1: laughing stock of the consumer electronics industry back in According

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Speaker 1: to the market analysis company new Zoo, the industry the

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Speaker 1: video game industry in general, earned just shy of one

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Speaker 1: thirty five billion dollars in revenue in two thousand eighteen.

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Speaker 1: That's about three times as much revenue as the film industry,

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Speaker 1: So video games are making three times as much money

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Speaker 1: per year as movies. That's major in the Internet age,

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Speaker 1: when it is relatively easy and less expensive to produce

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Speaker 1: a video or do a live stream and to reach

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Speaker 1: a huge audience on your own schedule, and where there

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Speaker 1: are already other events to cater to touching base with gamers,

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Speaker 1: does it make sense to keep holding E three or

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Speaker 1: should something change? Well, when we come back, I'll be

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Speaker 1: talking with Shannon Morse, who attended E three two thousand,

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Speaker 1: nineteen to get her perspective on the event and its future.

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Speaker 1: But first, let's take a quick break al right, guys,

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Speaker 1: joining me on this episode is a dear friend of mine,

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Speaker 1: a superstar when it comes to the world of reporting

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Speaker 1: on technology, hacker extraordinaire, and just an incredible person. One

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Speaker 1: of the most friendly people in tech I've ever had

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Speaker 1: the pleasure of meeting, Shannon Morse. Shannon, welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the show. Hi, Jonathan, thank you for having me back on.

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Speaker 1: It's super exciting to be here. I love whenever we

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Speaker 1: have you on. You always have great insight. And uh

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Speaker 1: and I'm not joking, folks. She's like, they're like a

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Speaker 1: couple of people on a short list of people in

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Speaker 1: tech who have been consistently awesome. Shannon's on that list.

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Speaker 1: Tom Merritt is on that list. There are very few

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Speaker 1: and far between, so you are a treasure. Shannon tom Merritt's.

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Speaker 1: Tom Merritt is one of my mentors, so I definitely

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Speaker 1: look up to him and I will thank you. That

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Speaker 1: was really really sweet of you to say absolutely absolutely.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's all true, so it's easy. But

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Speaker 1: more importantly, for the purposes of this show. We are

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Speaker 1: going to talk to Shannon about her experience at E

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Speaker 1: three nineteen, because, as I've already explained, I did not

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Speaker 1: go to that show. But Shannon, you did attend E

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Speaker 1: three twenty nineteen. Can you tell us what you were

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Speaker 1: there doing and you know what was your experience like

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Speaker 1: this past year? Yeah? Sure, So I have been to

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Speaker 1: E three in the past, back in like twenty fourteen,

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Speaker 1: so this was my second time going to E three

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Speaker 1: as a video host slash producer. So this time I

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Speaker 1: was there with n Video g Force. They have their

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Speaker 1: own YouTube channel, and I was just doing a bunch

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Speaker 1: of interviews with a bunch of game developers. Uh So

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Speaker 1: I was specifically with them for one day before the

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Speaker 1: show floor opened up to the public, and then the

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Speaker 1: second day I asked them if I could just stay

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Speaker 1: an extra day and I ran around on my own

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Speaker 1: to get my own vlogs for my personal channel, which

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Speaker 1: is YouTube dot com slash Shannon Morris. I hope you

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Speaker 1: don't mind that I promote at all, but yeah, but

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Speaker 1: the second day it did open up to the public

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Speaker 1: after I believe it was one PM, So I got

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Speaker 1: to experience both sides, one being it just for you know,

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Speaker 1: trade workers, people that are in the game developer trade

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Speaker 1: or there as press. And then I also got to

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Speaker 1: see it opened up to the public, so it was

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Speaker 1: kind of interesting seeing it from both perspectives and being

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Speaker 1: on the show floor to watch that happen. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: that was the first time that it was open to

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Speaker 1: the public, since it wasn't originally when I when I

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Speaker 1: first went to E three. Yeah, yeah, when the last

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Speaker 1: time I went to E three, I think it was

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Speaker 1: the second year that they started selling tickets to the public.

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Speaker 1: You know, as you say, for years, it was industry

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Speaker 1: only and you were only going in if you were

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Speaker 1: a developer, publisher, if you were a retailer or an

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Speaker 1: analyst in the industry, or you were pressed. That was

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Speaker 1: essentially the group. And then press got real lucy goosey. Uh,

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Speaker 1: just like at C E S where we have everything

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Speaker 1: from the big outlets, you know, the big the really

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Speaker 1: big established media companies too, you know mom and pop

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Speaker 1: blogs that are run by you know, Joe or Jane

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Speaker 1: video gamer extraordinaire. And that's the only reason why I

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Speaker 1: was ever able to go. So I'm not I'm not

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Speaker 1: denigrated to get it by any means, but it was

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Speaker 1: a very different experience when I saw that too, like

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Speaker 1: the idea that opening it up and having a very

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Speaker 1: enthusiastic gaming public come in. What was your perception of

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Speaker 1: how that was received? Because I have my own thoughts,

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Speaker 1: but I don't want to I don't want to color

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Speaker 1: your perception with mine. I'd rather hear what you thought

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Speaker 1: first and then we can talk about it. I Well,

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Speaker 1: my perception is that I honestly felt like this year's

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Speaker 1: E three was smaller, And it might have been because

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Speaker 1: some major game manuf brands like Microsoft, for example, Xbox,

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Speaker 1: they weren't there on the show floor. Neither was Sony,

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Speaker 1: and that was really really big news before the convention

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Speaker 1: even happened. And even so, when a lot of people

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Speaker 1: came in as the public at one pm, uh, the

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Speaker 1: lines were super long. They were crazy, crazy long, and

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Speaker 1: it just it felt a little bit disappointing in a

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Speaker 1: lot of ways. Uh, just because the show floor felt

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Speaker 1: really small. It felt like it was a little overcrowded

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Speaker 1: when the public came in, and there were hours and

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Speaker 1: hours long lines. So when I was there just on

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Speaker 1: my own without the end video crew, it was almost

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Speaker 1: impossible for me to play any games because the lines,

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Speaker 1: like at the Nintino booth were four hours long. So honestly,

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Speaker 1: I was I was a little bit disappointed that it

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Speaker 1: was open to the public, and I think that if

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Speaker 1: they had planned it differently like a lot of other

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Speaker 1: expos do, like Games Calm and things like that, then

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Speaker 1: it could have gone a lot more smoother with the

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Speaker 1: public entering, uh, and then be a lot easier to

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Speaker 1: get your job done if you are in the industry

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Speaker 1: and still have a really good time. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: even when I go to video game conferences as public,

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Speaker 1: because I don't always go as pressed because I like

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Speaker 1: to play video games too. I really like it whenever

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Speaker 1: I can either you know, set up a meeting or

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Speaker 1: set up a time that I can go to a

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Speaker 1: booth and play a video game, or the lines are

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Speaker 1: are set up so that everything goes really smoothly, like

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Speaker 1: they have a whole bunch of different people playing games

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Speaker 1: so that like at different times, so that the line

436
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 1: just keeps on moving and it doesn't feel like you're

437
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 1: sitting there for four hours. So that was kind of unfortunate,

438
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I feel like maybe they should

439
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: move to a new venue. I have so many thoughts

440
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: about this. I have so many thoughts. Yeah, I so

441
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 1: my my beliefs. By the way, that's if you can

442
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 1: hear Shannon's kitty cat in the background. And I no, no no,

443
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: I'm fully in favor of having kitty cats on tech stuff.

444
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 1: If I were allowed to bring cats into the office,

445
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,640
Speaker 1: we would have them. But no, I was gonna say

446
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 1: that my perception is very much the same as yours,

447
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 1: and that from from a press perspective, it is frustrating

448
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: because it makes your job harder to do. And I

449
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,640
Speaker 1: don't want to say that, you know, other people shouldn't

450
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 1: have a good time so that I can do my

451
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 1: job and that I get to have all the fun

452
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 1: and no one else does. That's not what I mean.

453
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 1: But I do mean that things where you might have

454
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 1: been able to cover maybe a dozen stories in a

455
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: day if you were really booking it, you're down to

456
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 1: maybe three in a in a typical day. And that's

457
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: even booking the meetings with the different publishers. And then

458
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 1: as a I had four meetings booked the first day

459
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: and that's it. That's all we were able to get

460
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 1: in for just because it was so overcrowding. Yeah, yeah,

461
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: And then, like if I were there as a ticket holder,

462
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 1: let's say that I'm there as general public, so no

463
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 1: longer wearing the press hat, I would have a very

464
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 1: frustrating experience. As you already alluded to this problem of

465
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 1: standing in line for a very long time to play

466
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 1: a maybe a ten minute slice of a video game,

467
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 1: because your perception of what you're you have going into

468
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 1: it is that you're going to have a chance to

469
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 1: play a game before anyone else does. So it puts

470
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: you in an elite group. And there's there's already an

471
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: attraction to being part of an elite group, right you

472
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: are part of a special few that were able to

473
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 1: experience something before anyone else did. That's something that we

474
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: all kind of crave at one time or another. I'm

475
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 1: sure there have been times where you've had chance to

476
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: get your hands on certain technology or go to see

477
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: a movie before anyone else, and it's impossible to deny

478
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 1: there is this sense of being special by being part

479
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: of that group. And you know, in the grand scheme,

480
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: you take a big step back, you think, oh, that

481
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 1: might seem a little petty. I'm saying that someone who

482
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: experiences that whenever it happens to me, I I am

483
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 1: not so big that I don't still feel like who

484
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 1: I get a chance to do something special? So I

485
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 1: get the appeal, but the problem is the reality is

486
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 1: the capacity is limited. There's usually a handful of titles

487
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: that everyone really wants to check out, which means that

488
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 1: those areas are completely slammed. Nintendo, just as a brand,

489
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: is always in that group. I remember waiting in line

490
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: to get a chance to try out the three D

491
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 1: three D S when it first came out, and I

492
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: remember Brian tong of seen that passing me by and

493
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 1: he's like, strickling, why are you in this line. I'm like,

494
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: because I don't have a pass like you do for this.

495
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 1: And this was before the general public was allowed in,

496
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 1: so I was there was no general public that year,

497
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 1: and so Tom's like, well, I'm just gonna go up

498
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: to the front. I'm like, yeah, you worn't for seen it.

499
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 1: Of course you're going to go up to the front.

500
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 1: I don't get to do that. So he even belonged

501
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,400
Speaker 1: to an even more elite group. Uh. But but this

502
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 1: is the sort of frustration you can experience, and it

503
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: makes me question about the wisdom of laying the general

504
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: public in not because it makes my job harder, but

505
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 1: because I wonder if it does more harm than good,

506
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: because I can't imagine it's a very positive experience for

507
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 1: your average attendee. No, it can't be. And I even

508
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: looked at the day of prices for tickets as general public,

509
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 1: and they were over nine dollars if you decided to

510
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 1: purchase the day of. The reasoning on E three's website

511
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: was to you know, keep it from getting too overcrowded.

512
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: So on their website they said something along the line

513
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: of to prevent overcrowdedness. Day of tickets purchased at the

514
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 1: convention floor over nine and I was like, that's insane.

515
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: So it feels like to me, this is purely my opinion,

516
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 1: but it feels like E three is trying to make

517
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: people online happy by introducing a public time that people

518
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: can come in no matter who you are. But at

519
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: the same time, they're not growing out the venue space,

520
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: they're not growing out the abilities for the boosts to

521
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: get bigger or anything like that. To help with that

522
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 1: huge change. They're trying to turn it into a convention,

523
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: but it's still an expo for industry, and they're treating

524
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: it like it's still industry even though they're allowing all

525
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: this all the public in. I love going to public conventions.

526
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: That's one of my favorite things to do. I love cosplay,

527
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 1: I love playing video games like that is my life.

528
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: I am a congoer for life. But going to this

529
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: convention feels kind of confusing because they're dressing it to

530
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: very business e but for the public persona, what they're

531
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: telling people online is we're still relevant. You should come

532
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: to this convention. And it's not a convention, it's an

533
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: industry expo. It's just weird. It's like it would be

534
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: like opening up c e s to the general public,

535
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: which I don't even want to mention a nightmare, nightmare scenario,

536
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's It's one of those things where I

537
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: agree that this this this mishmash of approaches where something

538
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: that works for one type of event doesn't necessarily work

539
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 1: for another, and you're you're getting you're not getting the

540
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: best of both worlds, You're kind of getting the worst

541
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: of both worlds, where it's getting very frustrating. I can't

542
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: I don't know how developers feel about this, or publishers.

543
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if they find it frustrating with this experience.

544
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 1: I am very curious about their opinions, but honestly, I've

545
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: never been able to talk with them about what is

546
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: your perspective this the way that the event has changed.

547
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 1: Does that is that something that you view as a

548
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: positive or is it something that ultimately you worry about,

549
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: Because obviously, if the general public has a bad experience

550
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: at E three, and it may have nothing to do

551
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: with the actual quality of the game, it may reflect

552
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: poorly on the games that are there, and then you

553
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: get bad early buzz for a game that can kill

554
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: a game before it even comes out, so that that

555
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 1: has to be a worry too. Alright. Well, and there's

556
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: still a lot of games that do introduce news at

557
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: E three as opposed to doing their own personal show

558
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: or introduction or promoting it at games Com. So E

559
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: three still is the place where a lot of news happens.

560
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: It's just not treating itself like that. Well that that

561
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: seguys really nicely into this discussion that comes up every year.

562
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: I remember I did a search, just sort of a

563
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: cursory search of is E three relevant? And you know,

564
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: there's no shortage of articles that pop up, and one

565
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 1: of the earliest ones came from two thousand twelve, long

566
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: before they opened it up to the public, so this

567
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: has clearly been been an ongoing annual exercise. I think

568
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: I think we we have the the life cycle of

569
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 1: E three each year is here's the hype before the show,

570
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,239
Speaker 1: here's all the rumors, here are all the guesses of

571
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:20,959
Speaker 1: what's going to be shown off, who's going to come

572
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: out with a new console. Then you have the initial

573
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: announcements that pre date E three, and people say, well,

574
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: what's left to say at E three now that these

575
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: other things have been announced. Then you have E three itself,

576
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: and you have the endless amount of analysis that comes

577
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 1: out of that. Then post E three, after everyone's got

578
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 1: that sort of the concrude, they're like, hey, is there

579
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: any reason to even have this thing anymore? That seems

580
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 1: to be every year, So Shannon, is there any reason

581
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 1: to have this thing anymore? I think it still holds

582
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: a little bit of a place in my heart as

583
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 1: well a lot of other people who like to go

584
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 1: there and be the first person to play a video game,

585
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: So in that sense, like it's still really fun to

586
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: do so, but in the grand scheme of things, you

587
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: don't really need a big convention like E three. That's

588
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: for industry professional but but as inviting the public. I

589
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: feel like, and a lot of people feel this way

590
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 1: about C E S two. You can stay at home

591
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: now and get all the news that you need, and

592
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: you can pre order the games and still get early

593
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: access to whatever you want. So in the day and

594
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: age of social media, and in the day and age

595
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 1: of being able to contact a lot of these brands directly,

596
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: you might not need this kind of industry event anymore. Yeah,

597
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: I see that the Internet has really enabled companies to

598
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,959
Speaker 1: reach out to their their fan base directly and you

599
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: can circumvent the need for the big centralized event. It

600
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: also means that if you take that approach, then you

601
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: can announce things on your schedule as opposed to a

602
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: centralized schedule. We've seen this with C E S. I

603
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: mean my first year of going to C E S

604
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 1: I believe was the final year that Microsoft was there,

605
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: and then Microsoft pulled out the following year, and the

606
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:10,760
Speaker 1: justification was, well, why should we have an annual event

607
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: that's not under our own control where we're expected to

608
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: announce all the things we plan to do that year.

609
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: We would much rather do that on our own schedule.

610
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: This is of course something that Apple had been doing

611
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: for years and would continue to do so over the

612
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,479
Speaker 1: following years, and you're starting to see that with game

613
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,800
Speaker 1: companies to Nintendo holds Nintendo directs on a fairly regular basis,

614
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,760
Speaker 1: not just around E three, but also at other times

615
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: of the year. PlayStation has their events that they're doing.

616
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 1: E A has held their own events, So we're not

617
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 1: just seeing it from console makers, we're seeing it from

618
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:46,760
Speaker 1: publishers as well. And whether you're holding an actual event,

619
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 1: like a physical location where people are coming and they're

620
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 1: playing the games, or you're more like Nintendo where you

621
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:54,879
Speaker 1: produce a video ahead of time, which helps you really

622
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 1: cut down on those cringeworthy segments because you can edit

623
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 1: those after you've shot them. Very Yeah, we missed the

624
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: cringe worthy segments because that's something for us to talk about,

625
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 1: but it's it works better for the company. Uh. But

626
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: the fact that you can do that now removes a

627
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: lot of the the arguments you would use to attend

628
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 1: something like E three, And in fact, I would think

629
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:21,959
Speaker 1: that that's part of why Sony is like, yeah, let's

630
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: just skip this one. We don't have a console to announce.

631
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 1: We're not ready to talk about it yet. If we do,

632
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: we can do it on our own time, and we

633
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 1: can get all the headlines instead of fighting for the headlines.

634
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: That's the other aspect, right, you don't get lost in

635
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 1: the shuffle. Hey there, it's Jonathan from post interview with

636
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: Shannon Morris. Shannon and I have a lot more to

637
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 1: say about the E three experience and its relevance, but

638
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,280
Speaker 1: before we get to that, it's time to take another

639
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: quick break. Hey, it's me again. We're going to rejoin

640
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,240
Speaker 1: the interview I did with Shannon Morris, and we're gonna

641
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: pick up where we left off. She picks up about

642
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 1: the merits of attending an event like E three. I

643
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: would rather companies like that focus that insane budget that

644
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 1: you have. You you would normally have to pay E

645
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: three to even get a booth, and put it towards

646
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: your developers, or put it to towards the people, the

647
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: artists that are working on the game. Like I would

648
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 1: much rather than focus all of that money on the

649
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 1: video game, not going to this industry event just to

650
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 1: show off the game at at this one convention. Maybe

651
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:37,839
Speaker 1: maybe create a production cycle for the game in a

652
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,879
Speaker 1: way where you try to avoid the awful crunch time

653
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 1: as much as possible, so people aren't working, you know,

654
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 1: weeks and slowly dying or rapidly dying because we hear

655
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 1: those stories all the time too. I agree with you

656
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 1: on that as well. So what I think there, I

657
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:00,879
Speaker 1: think I'm with you. I think the E three still

658
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 1: has a place. I think it almost needs to turn

659
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,439
Speaker 1: into something more akin to what you see with packs right,

660
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: Like the Penny Arcade Expo is a totally fan focused

661
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 1: It is not industry. It's a place where video game

662
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 1: developers frequently will uh showcase games that are that are

663
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,439
Speaker 1: not yet released and give people the chance to play them.

664
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: And the fact that it was designed first and foremost

665
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 1: as a fan facing event means that it runs more

666
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: smoothly in that context than E three would. So seeing

667
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 1: E three transformed like that might be useful. Um. I

668
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: think that a lot. The way the three goes now,

669
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 1: the way it continues, it almost seems like it's an

670
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 1: argument to keep the E s a relevant uh, which

671
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 1: that's the organization that throws E three, that the organizes

672
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 1: E three. The fact that they opened it up to

673
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 1: public tells me a lot about that. There's also been

674
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of like rumors and and

675
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: nasty news coming out like fighting within the EESA over

676
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,839
Speaker 1: the last couple of years, that it doesn't make headlines

677
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 1: for most video game journals. I mean, there's some up there.

678
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: Polygon will always cover that kind of stuff, but a

679
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of industry magazines haven't really covered it.

680
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 1: But the fact that there's been a lot of internal

681
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,839
Speaker 1: drama at the organization that throws this also brings up

682
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 1: the question of relevance, or at least how healthy is

683
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: the event. Um. I would like to see it kind

684
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 1: of skew away from the trade side. The only thing

685
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:41,359
Speaker 1: that makes me nervous about that is there are some developers,

686
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 1: some publishers, especially the Independence, that are pretty small and

687
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 1: they depend on E three for discovery. Uh. It tends

688
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: to be the stuff that doesn't necessarily make the big

689
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: stage at any of the press events, but people will

690
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 1: discover it on the floor and then it will generate. Uh.

691
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: The one I think about that I had not heard

692
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 1: about at all until I encountered it on the show

693
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 1: floor was Octo Dad, which was such a bizarre game,

694
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 1: such a weird game, and such a challenging and fun

695
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: concept and uh so different from everything else you were seeing.

696
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 1: It wasn't a shooter, it wasn't a racing game, it

697
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,879
Speaker 1: wasn't a sports game. You were an octopus posing as

698
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: a human being who had pulled the wall over your

699
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: family's eyes, and you had to try and maneuver these

700
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 1: crazy limbs of yours. There's a phenomenal concept that I

701
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 1: don't think would have ever gotten the notice that it

702
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: did without its presence at E three. So in those

703
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 1: cases I get a little nervous because there's some actual

704
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 1: great work that otherwise wouldn't be discovered without E three.

705
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: The problem I see is that for all the other

706
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: bigger names out there, why not just have your own

707
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: event or have your own internet like based event where

708
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily people coming to play the game, but

709
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: at least they get to see what the announcements are

710
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: um and it frees you up to not having to

711
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,879
Speaker 1: worry about having this this external schedule where you may

712
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,319
Speaker 1: or may not have anything to show, you know, and

713
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 1: it means that maybe Bethesda would get a break for

714
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: not having more Skyrim stuff to show off. For example,

715
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 1: you know the Elder Scroll stuff. Um, Yeah, everyone starts

716
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 1: yelling at companies when they have teased something and then

717
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 1: like a year goes by and you don't get an update.

718
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,839
Speaker 1: And that's because the development cycle for video games has

719
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 1: grown to be longer than for a feature length film. Yes,

720
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 1: it's a very long time. And one one thing that

721
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 1: I did see from a lot of the companies that

722
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,399
Speaker 1: I interviewed at E three was they did not have

723
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 1: news for us, Like they didn't announce anything new. They

724
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 1: were just giving us a few little updates here and there,

725
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,760
Speaker 1: or talking to us about the technology and the game

726
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 1: like just sneezed. But as as it goes for you know,

727
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 1: release dates and when they're going to introduce ray tracing

728
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, a lot of the companies just

729
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,240
Speaker 1: couldn't share that information with us. So at those points,

730
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 1: I would much prefer that they just have their own

731
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: press event and share their event or share their news

732
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,399
Speaker 1: at that event, as opposed to feeling, you know, kind

733
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 1: of stressed about E three or feeling like they're forced

734
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: to go through there, because I feel like some may

735
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 1: not necessarily be ready, and it would be a lot

736
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,839
Speaker 1: more beneficial for those game developers to just you know,

737
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 1: do their announcements on their own terms as opposed to

738
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 1: having to do it at E three. But you make

739
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,800
Speaker 1: a really really valid point when it comes to independence

740
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 1: independent games game manufacturers. You see this at like g

741
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 1: DC as well, Like they really really value those events

742
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 1: quite a bit because those are the only times that

743
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,399
Speaker 1: you see a lot of press and journalists go out

744
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: and check out all these interesting things that they can

745
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 1: find on the show floor. You see the same thing

746
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 1: at CS to like some of the biggest hits are

747
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 1: just the worst, random and weirdest things. But indie game

748
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 1: manufacturing definitely does rely on those kind of events. So

749
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 1: maybe E three, instead of trying to focus on trying

750
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: to get this middle ground of we're going to be

751
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: a public conference as well as E three expo for industry,

752
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: do one or the other, like do g d C

753
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,959
Speaker 1: or do games Com slash packs, but stop trying to

754
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: confuse everybody and stick them both into the same venue

755
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:33,439
Speaker 1: space which is way too small for everybody. Yeah, or

756
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 1: if you're gonna be E three, then focus, maybe change

757
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 1: your focus to be on things like the smaller developers,

758
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: the independent developers, so that those are the focus, because again,

759
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 1: the big companies they're pulling out anyway. So if they're

760
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: pulling out anyway, then change the thrust of your show. Two.

761
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 1: Put these other ones on a pestle, even if they

762
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 1: were too, to separate out the event more where you

763
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 1: have kind of like C e S where you have

764
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: the press days before the actual show floor opens. Now, granted,

765
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: on those days you're not typically touring the show floor

766
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 1: because those booths are still rapidly being put the duct

767
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: tape and spit and everything. If you've ever been to

768
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 1: c S before the show floor officially opened, you've seen

769
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:25,360
Speaker 1: people just frantically trying to get a booth in shape.

770
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: Um all everything happens all the way up to and

771
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 1: including when the doors open on that first day, so

772
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: there's not much for you to be able to actually do.

773
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: But if they were to divide up the show so

774
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: that they said, all right, let's say it's gonna be

775
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 1: a three day event, and day one is going to

776
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,919
Speaker 1: be treated like it's a full open day, but it's

777
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 1: just press. It's just press an industry, and that's it.

778
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: So one day you get the normal sort of pre

779
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 1: public E three experience, and then after that you make

780
00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 1: it the public event. It's still hard to do because

781
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 1: you still are working within the same facility, So it's

782
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 1: not like you can magically make the booths, you know,

783
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 1: change in modular form. Yeah, they don't get larger, better

784
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 1: traffic flow, but at the at the very least you

785
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 1: can at you can, which they sort of did this

786
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:17,720
Speaker 1: past year. It sounds like with the the one o'clock

787
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: opening time, you at least got the first half of

788
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 1: the day, but still that's that's limited. Um. I remember

789
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 1: one year I went to E three and I was

790
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 1: waiting in line with everybody else to get in because,

791
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 1: as far as I could tell, my badge just allowed

792
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: me in normal hours. But the person, one of the

793
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,360
Speaker 1: security people working the line walked up and saw my

794
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: badge and they said, you know, you can go in

795
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: right now. I said what, The show floor doesn't open

796
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: for another like fifteen minutes. Said oh no, no, your

797
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: badge allows you to go in right now. All right,

798
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 1: So I walk in, but no one was no one

799
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,839
Speaker 1: was ready to show anything. So it didn't like if

800
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:51,800
Speaker 1: I had had an appointment, it would have been fine,

801
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 1: but I didn't have an appointment, so really I just

802
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 1: felt like I was an extra person in a giant convention.

803
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: Hall that looked lost because that who what I was.

804
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 1: I couldn't I couldn't actually do it. There weren't any

805
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 1: games to play or anything yet everyone was hurriedly setting

806
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: up their booths. So I do like that. I do

807
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 1: like that E three has the press hours or the

808
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 1: industry hours before the public comes in. UM. But it's

809
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: it feels like they the location in the physical space

810
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 1: is just big enough for industry. It doesn't feel like

811
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: it's big enough to be inviting the public in as

812
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 1: well as you know, regular attendees. UM. So I think

813
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 1: that it would be a lot better if they moved

814
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 1: to a larger venue to introduce a lot more people,

815
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: and to allow the boothmakers as well, to broaden how

816
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: large their boots are and how many games they're allowed

817
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 1: to you know, set up there. Yeah, my cats sitting

818
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 1: in a box. If it fits it sits Yes. I

819
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:55,240
Speaker 1: remember I remember a year at E three where um,

820
00:45:55,880 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 1: I think it was it was probably which company was it.

821
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: I remember that there was one year where it was

822
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 1: this enormous booth and it looked amazing from the outside,

823
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 1: but it was also invitation only, and I did not

824
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 1: have an invitation, and so that was one of those

825
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: experiences too that gets frustrating, and that still happens as well,

826
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 1: where you have certain exhibitors who they do appointment only

827
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:23,840
Speaker 1: uh showings, so you can't just walk up and play stuff.

828
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: So there's also that experience which can be a negative one.

829
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:30,920
Speaker 1: If you bought a ticket to go and then you're like, well,

830
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 1: I can't even play everything that's on here because I'm

831
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 1: not even allowed into that space. That ends up getting

832
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 1: across message across signal as well, right, because you're thinking

833
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,879
Speaker 1: I bought a pass and now you're telling me that

834
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: the past is not good for what I want to do.

835
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 1: It feels like it almost feels like a bait and switch,

836
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 1: even though for those of us who have covered E

837
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 1: three for years, we know that's just the way certain

838
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: things work. That certain developers they're like, yeah, we we

839
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 1: will arrange ahead of time when you can come and

840
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: tour the booth, play the games, talk to developers. But

841
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: otherwise if you haven't done that, you're out of luck

842
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:10,720
Speaker 1: because there's no walk ups. So that's also a challenge.

843
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 1: I agree with you, I think that really if they

844
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:17,360
Speaker 1: want to have this public facing approach, which I understand

845
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: their reasoning, for doing so, they need to move to

846
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 1: a different venue. Uh, the I'm not sure that there

847
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,359
Speaker 1: is one in Los Angeles that would really fit the bill.

848
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 1: The convention center is pretty big, but it's not big

849
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: enough for what they want to do. You would pretty

850
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 1: much have to go to someplace like Orlando, which has

851
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 1: enormous convention centers, or of course Las Vegas, known for

852
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 1: c e S. Even c e S has way outgrown

853
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 1: the convention center. They have the complete Sands Expo Center

854
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 1: is filled as well as the Las Vegas Convention Center.

855
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,439
Speaker 1: And then there are plenty of hotels that host their

856
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 1: own booths and officially and otherwise that are connected to

857
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: c e S. So it's it's I don't know what

858
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 1: the solution is for them to go forward to this approach.

859
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: If I had my druthers, they would go straight to

860
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 1: the just trade industry route and say, let's scale it down.

861
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: Scaling down is not necessarily a bad thing if we

862
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:17,879
Speaker 1: do it in the right way. They tried scaling down

863
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:19,840
Speaker 1: a few years ago, but that was like a disaster

864
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 1: because it was kind of a such a drastic change

865
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 1: that nearly killed the event for all time. That's when

866
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 1: they turned it into kind of like it's all in

867
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 1: business suits and we're just going to talk code and

868
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 1: oh yeah, they took all the personality out. I mean, granted,

869
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 1: it had gotten to the point where it becomes sort

870
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 1: of a party con and it was hard to do business,

871
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 1: but they overcorrected when they tried to address it. Sounds

872
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:48,080
Speaker 1: like it sounds like the separation between def Con and

873
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:51,760
Speaker 1: black Hat. Def Con is the party con for hackers

874
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 1: while black Hat is the suits and tie convention for hackers. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

875
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:00,439
Speaker 1: that's not a not a bad way of compared ring it.

876
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 1: It was one of those things where it was just

877
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 1: kind of getting out outrageous with things like booth babes

878
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:07,919
Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff, like the ridiculous over

879
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 1: the top trying to attract anyone into any booth that

880
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 1: they could switching over to well let's make this serious

881
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 1: because we're we're an industry event um, and then trying

882
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: to find some middle ground after that, which they did

883
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 1: for a while. Then the opening up to the public

884
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 1: change things again. So I think we both agree that

885
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 1: E three probably still has a place, but in its

886
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:38,359
Speaker 1: current incarnation it is not fitting in well either as

887
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:43,319
Speaker 1: an outreach to gamers or as an industry event for

888
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:47,240
Speaker 1: people who are potentially going to carry games and stores,

889
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 1: although who the heck does that anymore? Or the press

890
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:55,879
Speaker 1: covering it. Um, everything's online now digital now. So any

891
00:49:55,880 --> 00:50:00,320
Speaker 1: other observations you made this year at E three, anything

892
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 1: that particularly stood out to you before we conclude this

893
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 1: part of our episode. What was your about covered everything?

894
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:13,240
Speaker 1: What was your favorite? Uh, definitely not the booth babes.

895
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 1: There were both babes there at a like some kind

896
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 1: of energy drink booth, which was very very unfortunate and

897
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 1: disappointing that they were there. Yeah, my favorite thing was

898
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 1: probably getting to play Borderlands too, and I did stand

899
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 1: in line for two hours to play that game. Uh

900
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 1: the blog day that I spent or Borderlands three. Yes,

901
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 1: Borderlands three, and it was incredible and so fun, and

902
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,440
Speaker 1: they definitely made it worth it. They like had a

903
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 1: swag bag at the end of it, and they did

904
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:49,840
Speaker 1: let you watch like a thirty minute demo of some

905
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 1: of the new characters and the new maps, so they

906
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 1: really made it something that was enjoyable. They even had

907
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 1: like streamers set up in little glass boxes along the

908
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:03,000
Speaker 1: line so you could watch people streaming the game like

909
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:06,400
Speaker 1: a bunch of twitch streamers while you're walking down the line,

910
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 1: so you can see, like, if you're a big fan

911
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 1: of twitch streamers, you could see some of your like

912
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 1: favorite celebs in these little glass boxes as if they

913
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,320
Speaker 1: were like in a little human zoo playing twitch games.

914
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 1: So that was pretty cool. Well, I really like their booth.

915
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:25,919
Speaker 1: It was fun the twitch streamers. I know, being put

916
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 1: into a zoo is not is not inappropriate, but these

917
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 1: are things of mine. So I'm going to be a

918
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:37,400
Speaker 1: twitch streamer. I'm going to be a twitch streamer one

919
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:40,240
Speaker 1: of these days. So I think I would be perfectly

920
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 1: fine if somebody stuck me in one of those little

921
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 1: class boxes and told me to play a video game

922
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 1: for two hours. Yeah, I was watching. I was watching

923
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 1: some of those twitch streams at the time too, and yeah,

924
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 1: and it was always interesting to see the the the

925
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 1: different approaches to that. Also, it's it's nice because you

926
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 1: see the agree, even the tacit agreement between publishers and

927
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 1: streamers about how that relationship is valuable to both parties.

928
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 1: Right that the streamers would not have a career where

929
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 1: it not for these games, and the games get an

930
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:17,400
Speaker 1: incredible amount of uh publicity and support through the marketing

931
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:19,760
Speaker 1: that's done by these streamers. I mean, you could argue

932
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:23,759
Speaker 1: that games like Fortnite wouldn't be nearly the success that

933
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: they were without the streaming community. So it's nice to

934
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 1: see that that's one of those elements that has come

935
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 1: up since I started going to E three that I

936
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 1: think is um a positive. That's something that is also

937
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:41,280
Speaker 1: kind of bridging that gap between industry and fan outreach.

938
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:44,919
Speaker 1: But it is maybe they do just need to move

939
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:48,479
Speaker 1: more towards that that route and just say, let's take

940
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 1: a more convention stance to this, but let's design it

941
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:54,759
Speaker 1: like a convention. Maybe bring some people over who have

942
00:52:55,000 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 1: run those kind of events to redesign how E three works. Yeah,

943
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 1: that would be amazing. Well, Shannon, thank you so much

944
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:08,880
Speaker 1: for joining us and telling us sort of your perspective

945
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 1: on E three. It was useful to talk to somebody

946
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 1: who actually went through it, and it was nice that

947
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:16,400
Speaker 1: you've got a chance to compare it to the earlier

948
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:20,800
Speaker 1: time when you went, when there was no public uh

949
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 1: entry into the convention at all, so you had a

950
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 1: chance to see it in both formats and kind of

951
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:30,359
Speaker 1: weigh them against each other. That's useful tell people where

952
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 1: they can find all your stuffs. You can find all

953
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 1: of my stuffs. You can follow me on Twitter, that's

954
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 1: where I am most active. I am at snubs s

955
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 1: and U b s and I just started uploading a

956
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 1: ton of videos at my YouTube channel YouTube dot com

957
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 1: slash Shannon Morse, which is just my full name, really

958
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,840
Speaker 1: easy to spell, which is where you can get tons

959
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 1: of tech vlogs and travel well tech reviews and travel vlogs.

960
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:01,319
Speaker 1: That's what I should have said. So I do have

961
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 1: a bunch of videos going out over there. Um, I've

962
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:06,800
Speaker 1: been very very active as well, so I really appreciate

963
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 1: the support that everybody has been showing by subscribing. Yep,

964
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 1: and uh, like I said, Shannon's awesome. You don't have

965
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:14,719
Speaker 1: to take my word for it. Just go check out

966
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 1: her stuff and you'll you'll come to the same conclusion.

967
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:19,719
Speaker 1: I mean, like, the evidence is all there. And you

968
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:22,800
Speaker 1: can actually see my cat on the videos sometimes because

969
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:25,480
Speaker 1: she does annoyingly like to come on set, even though

970
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,799
Speaker 1: she was adorable. I I understand entirely. This is why

971
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:30,879
Speaker 1: I can no longer record at home, because my dog

972
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 1: Tibolt would insert himself into He would yodel in the

973
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 1: background of every recording, because if I'm talking and it's

974
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 1: not to him, he is personally offended. So, Shannon, thank

975
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:43,439
Speaker 1: you so much for joining the show. I can't wait

976
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 1: to have you back on. Thank you, Jonathan. It was

977
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,759
Speaker 1: a pleasure as always, and I really appreciate it. Once again,

978
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:51,359
Speaker 1: I want to thank Shannon for joining the show. And

979
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 1: that's our look at E three and whether or not

980
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 1: it's still relevant. I think you could come down on

981
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 1: either side of that debate. But I also think that

982
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:03,719
Speaker 1: just about everyone would say that the event needs to

983
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 1: evolve a bit in order for it to meet whatever

984
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:09,120
Speaker 1: goals it has set out for itself. It also needs

985
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 1: to define those goals. What is the purpose of E three.

986
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:15,840
Speaker 1: It needs to be clear about that and to really

987
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:21,240
Speaker 1: make certain that the execution of the plan is done

988
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 1: with those goals in mind, because as it stands right now,

989
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 1: it's not entirely clear what E three is supposed to be,

990
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 1: and therefore it's hard to say whether or not it's

991
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 1: being successful. Lots of people are going to it, but

992
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:37,399
Speaker 1: is it actually achieving any goals. It's hard to say

993
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 1: if you don't know what the goals are. Well, we'll

994
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:43,279
Speaker 1: see how this continues. I mean, there's no doubt that

995
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:45,880
Speaker 1: E three will come back again. They've already secured the

996
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 1: Los Angeles Convention Center for twenty so I'm sure we

997
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:52,959
Speaker 1: will have another one to talk about in that year.

998
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 1: But I do hope that the E s A is

999
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:01,359
Speaker 1: is putting some real genuine thought into what E three

1000
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 1: is and what it should be. And if that is

1001
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:07,920
Speaker 1: a fan centric event, that's fine, it just needs to

1002
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:11,400
Speaker 1: be designed like one. In the meantime, if you guys

1003
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 1: have any suggestions for future episodes of tech Stuff, let

1004
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:17,440
Speaker 1: me know. You can send an email the addresses tech

1005
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 1: Stuff at how stuff works dot com or pop on

1006
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 1: by tech stuff podcast dot com. That's our website where

1007
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:26,240
Speaker 1: we have an archive of all of our previous episodes,

1008
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 1: plus links to our social media accounts and to the

1009
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: online store, where every purchase you make goes to help

1010
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 1: the show and we greatly appreciate it, and I'll talk

1011
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 1: to you again really soon. Y. Tech Stuff is a

1012
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:46,439
Speaker 1: production of i Heeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more

1013
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:49,920
Speaker 1: podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,

1014
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.