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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group, or if.

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Speaker 2: You've had experience with manipulation or abusive power that you'd

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Speaker 2: like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight, or.

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Speaker 1: Shoot us an email at trust Me pod at gmail

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Speaker 1: dot com.

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Speaker 3: Trust me, Trust trust Me.

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Speaker 4: I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 3: I've never lived to you, and we never have a live.

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Speaker 2: If you think that one person has all the answers, don't.

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Speaker 5: Welcome to Trust Me.

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Speaker 2: The podcast about cults, extreme belief and manipulation from two

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Speaker 2: trolls who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 5: I am Lola.

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Speaker 3: Blanc and I'm making Elizabeth.

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Speaker 5: We're not really trolls, you guys.

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Speaker 3: Kind of today we're so sick, we're a.

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Speaker 2: Little bit well, we're trolling you with our sniffles.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Today, our guest is filmmaker and my pal Josh Lobo,

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Speaker 2: who's going to tell us about his experiences with a

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Speaker 2: militant smalltown religious group in Wyoming. He will tell us

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Speaker 2: about how it all began with some good old fashion

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Speaker 2: early Facebook trolling, which escalated over time until many members

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Speaker 2: in the group sought revenge on him for his behavior,

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Speaker 2: and he'll.

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Speaker 6: Tell us about how it ended in his car being

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Speaker 6: shot full of bullet holes, the legal action he had

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Speaker 6: to take to get them to leave him alone, and

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Speaker 6: whether he regrets his trolling behavior.

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Speaker 5: Now, that's right.

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Speaker 2: It's a fascinating story change of pace for us, and

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Speaker 2: we will get into all of that in a minute.

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Speaker 2: And before that, I wanted to know, Megan, what's your

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Speaker 2: cultiest thing of the week?

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Speaker 6: Ooh, okay, this is somebody I actually really want to

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Speaker 6: have on the show.

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Speaker 3: Her name is Ashley Boder.

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Speaker 6: She's a ballerina in the New York City Ballet and

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Speaker 6: she was just asked not to perform in one of

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Speaker 6: her last performances in which she was the main character

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Speaker 6: because they said she gained a few pounds, so she

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Speaker 6: was sat out told to kind of lie about it.

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Speaker 6: And wow, Yeah, the dance world has these unwritten rules

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Speaker 6: and laws. And she's thirty eight years old. This is

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Speaker 6: one of her last performances.

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Speaker 3: She won.

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Speaker 6: I'm not finding it exactly, but she's won the like

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Speaker 6: version of the Ballerina Oscars essentially, so she's one of

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Speaker 6: the best. And she gained three pounds, so she couldn't

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Speaker 6: perform and that.

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Speaker 5: Is it really three pounds?

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Speaker 3: It's something ridiculous like that.

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Speaker 5: I mean, that is so crazy. The ballet world.

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Speaker 2: The other Megan in my life has talked a little

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Speaker 2: bit about that, growing up doing ballet as a kid.

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Speaker 2: How it's just like the weight shaming is next level,

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Speaker 2: especially when it's also what they consider fat is like,

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Speaker 2: so not that at all, but even if it were,

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Speaker 2: it's still not justified in any way.

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Speaker 5: Like it's yeah, it's like it's up there with modeling.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but it has that you know, history and that.

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Speaker 6: But this is the way that it is, and this

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Speaker 6: is what's beautiful, and yeah, it's not easy.

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Speaker 3: So if you want to do it, then you have

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Speaker 3: to be this and.

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Speaker 6: So then it gets in your head and yeah, it

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Speaker 6: really ruins people's lives.

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Speaker 3: It's very sad.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to be skinny and white and you know,

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Speaker 2: the aryan ideal of a tiny woman.

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Speaker 5: It's yeah, it's.

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Speaker 6: Luckily that's changing a little bit, but unfortunately, I mean

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Speaker 6: those girls are just going to face the same body shame.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, i mean historically that was how it was. Yeah, yes, yes,

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Speaker 2: yeah that's messed up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what about you.

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Speaker 5: First of all, I just.

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Speaker 2: Want to say that, like the amount of like the

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Speaker 2: spiking and hate toward the LGBTQ community has been unbelievable

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Speaker 2: and really just horrendous. I don't even know where it's

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Speaker 2: coming from. There's this weird like drag queen panic. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that makes it makes no sense to me, Like why,

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Speaker 2: first of all, why do you care if someone is

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Speaker 2: doing drag?

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Speaker 5: What do you think is going to happen? It's fine.

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Speaker 2: Also, it's fun and amazing, and I love drag queens,

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Speaker 2: and I fucking love when they do drag to my songs.

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Speaker 5: It's amazing.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, there's this weird like uptick in homophobia, transphobia,

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Speaker 2: and somehow this doesn't make any sense to me. But

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Speaker 2: the Mormon Church, who is traditionally extremely not in favor

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Speaker 2: of LGBTQ rights, like they were the ones really funding

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Speaker 2: Prop eight in California to try to get it, you know,

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Speaker 2: same sex marriage to be not legal now have come

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Speaker 2: out for a bill that actually recognizes same sex marriage,

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Speaker 2: which is very unexpected, especially given the culture that's happening

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Speaker 2: right now in conservative communities of this like LGBTQ banic,

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Speaker 2: you know, church doctrine still supports only man woman marriage,

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Speaker 2: but they're still they're like loosening their language on it,

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Speaker 2: and they're saying, well, if people want to have the

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Speaker 2: same sex marriage, they shouldn't be they should have some

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Speaker 2: rights basically, which is like huge, that's awesome for this community.

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Speaker 2: It's still not good enough because because the shit that

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Speaker 2: people have been through in this church over the years

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Speaker 2: is like, you know, unspeakable pain that people have experienced,

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Speaker 2: being shunned by their families, being you know, their children

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Speaker 2: aren't allowed to get baptized, that kind of thing. A

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Speaker 2: lot of that is now starting to shift, which is

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Speaker 2: just surprising because I feel like generally I think of Mormonism,

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Speaker 2: you know, Mormonism sort of represents a lot of these

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Speaker 2: conservative social ideals, and it would be the last church

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Speaker 2: I would expect to be kind of like becoming a

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Speaker 2: little just a tiny bit, not a lot, but a

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Speaker 2: tiny bit more progressive. So I think it's progress. It's

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Speaker 2: not there yet, but like it is progress for sure.

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Speaker 2: So that's a little uncultiness is going.

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Speaker 6: On, uplifting cultiness. I would say, yeah, thank you for

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Speaker 6: sharing that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so that's my thing of the week.

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Speaker 4: Woo.

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Speaker 2: All right, let's talk to Josh. This show is sponsored

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Speaker 2: by Better Help.

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Speaker 6: The holidays can be very exciting, but they can also

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Speaker 6: be challenging for some of us, and having someone to

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Speaker 6: talk to about how you're feeling can truly make all

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Speaker 6: the difference. So give a gift to yourself this holiday

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Speaker 6: season with better Help.

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Speaker 2: I gotta say, I don't know what I would do

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Speaker 2: without therapy. Most of my friends are in therapy. If

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Speaker 2: you're not in therapy, you should be in therapy. That's

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Speaker 2: my personal opinion. I just think like having someone to

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Speaker 2: talk to about what's going on with you who you

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Speaker 2: don't have to feel guilty about eating up all of

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Speaker 2: especially if you're struggling right now, which many of us

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Speaker 2: are and have been, especially in the last few years.

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Speaker 5: So I think therapy is great, y'all.

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Speaker 6: Better Help h e LP dot com slash trust.

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Speaker 2: Welcome Josh Lobo, mine friend to the show.

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Speaker 4: How's it going.

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Speaker 2: Josh is a filmmaker. We might be doing a project together.

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Speaker 2: It's very exciting.

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Speaker 5: I mean, dare I say we will be doing a

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Speaker 5: project together? Very exciting?

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Speaker 4: You put that in the energy end of the world,

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Speaker 4: then it's like cool. Now it's now it's official, because yeah, spoken.

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Speaker 5: About we shall be doing a project together.

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Speaker 2: But Josh is here with us today because Josh has

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Speaker 2: a very unique cult experience, a bit different from the

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Speaker 2: type of guests we normally have on because typically we'll

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Speaker 2: talk to people who are victims from the inside, and

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Speaker 2: Josh was a bit of a victim from the outside

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Speaker 2: of a cult. So I don't want to name them

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Speaker 2: because they are scary, so we'll just call them the cult.

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Speaker 4: Even like an hour ago, I was like, I don't

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Speaker 4: know if I want to talk about this because it's

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Speaker 4: terrified of these people. I mean, you guys probably understand,

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Speaker 4: you know that it's like, yeah, you start like loooking

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Speaker 4: around with these people and in any capacity, and you know,

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Speaker 4: it really sort of starts to take like an ugly,

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Speaker 4: ugly light.

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Speaker 2: The people who are in the depths of extreme belief

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Speaker 2: are capable of lots of things. So start us at

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Speaker 2: the beginning. Where are you living? How do you meet

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Speaker 2: this group?

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Speaker 4: Okay, I live in Wyoming, born and raised here. You know,

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Speaker 4: I left to go to college and I lived in

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Speaker 4: la for seven or eight years and then I eventually

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Speaker 4: just came back to my family's here. And I have

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Speaker 4: a pretty small family, so it's not like there's a

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Speaker 4: lot of people to take care of people, so it's

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Speaker 4: very insular. But yeah, when I when I was in

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Speaker 4: high school where I live, there is a fundamentalist group.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, the word cult is Yeah, that's fair.

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Speaker 4: It's so interesting because it's you know, the connotation with

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Speaker 4: that is like.

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Speaker 2: Jonestown, Like it's such a specific thing that people contra

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Speaker 2: up in their heads, and it's meaning various depending on

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Speaker 2: who you're talking to.

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Speaker 4: I feel like, yeah, you know, when I sort of

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Speaker 4: think back on my experiences with my incident, which I

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Speaker 4: mean went on for like several years, I really kind

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Speaker 4: of had to think about whether or not this was cult.

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Speaker 4: Like where I'm from, you know, the Midwest. You know,

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Speaker 4: anyone's familiar with sort of this area of the United States,

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Speaker 4: it's very very religious, very republican, very religious worldview. You know.

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Speaker 4: With that, there are offsets, you know. I mean, I

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Speaker 4: was raised in a religious family. You know, I'm not

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Speaker 4: personally religious, but a lot of my family members are.

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Speaker 4: But there are where I live, there are these sort

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Speaker 4: of so this group they are really range sort of

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Speaker 4: sub section of I'm not even totally sure what their

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Speaker 4: religion is, but they really operate like a gang.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, what do you mean?

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Speaker 6: Like they beat each other up to initiate each other and.

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Speaker 5: So tell us why it's gang, Mike.

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Speaker 4: There was like a three to four year period when

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Speaker 4: I was a teenager where I sort of I grew

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Speaker 4: up in like a very distinct time period where like

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Speaker 4: Facebook was the be all and all for like communication. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and through some like Facebook interactions with these people, I

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Speaker 4: basically like had this entire church like weaponized against me,

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Speaker 4: which like accumulated in them like gangs of people like

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Speaker 4: coming to my house, like night after nights, coming into

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Speaker 4: my porch, and it sort of erupted in this point

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Speaker 4: where they like brought some guns to my house and

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Speaker 4: like shot up my car.

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Speaker 5: Okay, so tell us how I got to that point though.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, let's start on Facebook.

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Speaker 6: They like had a Facebook group I'm imagining, and you

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Speaker 6: saw some posts and were like, lol, this was.

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Speaker 4: Sort of like in like twenty eleven. You know, I

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Speaker 4: was like seventeen eighteen at the time. You know, Facebook

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Speaker 4: Marketplace was real, was a real like vibe in place,

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Speaker 4: Like people would just get on there and you know,

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Speaker 4: you'd see any number of things and people were fighting

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Speaker 4: with each other.

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Speaker 5: And I guess book Marketplace existed in twenty eleven.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there, or there was like the unofficial versions of it.

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Speaker 4: We had, like we're in the small town that I

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Speaker 4: live in, you know, we had our like a private

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Speaker 4: one that was like a Facebook group where everybody in

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Speaker 4: the town I think, I think there's like eighteen thousand

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Speaker 4: people that live where I live would kind of buy

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Speaker 4: and sell and trade stuff and then and periodically it

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Speaker 4: would you know, people would just sort of throw like

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Speaker 4: hail Mary's into this group. You know, they would you know,

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Speaker 4: they would just say things, and my first like interaction

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Speaker 4: with these people came in the form of like a

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Speaker 4: post where like again like unprompted, one of a son

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Speaker 4: with one of the families basically posted that like they

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Speaker 4: should just like rally up all of the gay people

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Speaker 4: and cut them into kindling to enlightenment.

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Speaker 5: Oh my god.

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Speaker 4: Yeah yeah so it was. It was real. Yeah, light

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Speaker 4: them into kindling and like use them. I'll always remember it.

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Speaker 4: Just use them, use them as kindling in a fire price. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: so you know, we're really really lighting up a Facebook marketplace.

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Speaker 4: And uh, I at the time was I would say,

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Speaker 4: pretty combative, Yeah, and very very sort of staunch and like,

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Speaker 4: you know, my belief set, you mean, to.

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Speaker 5: Your belief set that gay people should not be.

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Speaker 4: Burned burned to death?

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Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, crazy mindset. Okay, Yeah, you.

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Speaker 4: Know I acted with less tact than I probably should

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Speaker 4: have as a as a as an angry at political

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Speaker 4: eighteen year old. So basically, you know, I get into

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Speaker 4: a Facebook fight with this person who to me at

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Speaker 4: the time was just a person, and only later found

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Speaker 4: out what was part of this religion because sort of

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Speaker 4: very very quickly I found that kind of just like

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Speaker 4: having an argument with this one person, it quickly became

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Speaker 4: that I was like sort of deadlocked in like a

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Speaker 4: fight with like their pretty much their entire church.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so you get into a Facebook fight with this

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Speaker 2: guy who said something incredibly offensive, and so you're like,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to troll this guy, and it was just

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Speaker 2: it was just in the Facebook group at first, like

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Speaker 2: on a thread.

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Speaker 4: Again, eighteen years old, real combatitive, and they fucking pissed

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Speaker 4: me off. So it was like, you know, I was

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Speaker 4: not going to let it fly, and you know I

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Speaker 4: should have let it fly. But yeah, very quickly, so

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Speaker 4: we get in this Facebook fight, and very quickly, like

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Speaker 4: within a matter of days, I just found that like

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Speaker 4: I had sort of like put a target on my back.

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Speaker 2: Were there a bunch of other people responding in the thread?

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Speaker 2: Like were was it kind of like this pileon on

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Speaker 2: people responding to you?

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Speaker 4: Or yes? Yeah, I mean there was like, you know,

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Speaker 4: dozens and dozens and sort of the way it works

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Speaker 4: is it's a very insular. You know, I still don't

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Speaker 4: know a lot of it, but like they're very prominent

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Speaker 4: where I live, and so you know, you kind of

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Speaker 4: hear bits and pieces. You know, from what I understand,

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Speaker 4: the women have very very few rights. They are not

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Speaker 4: allowed to wear jeans dresses. You know, their kids start

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Speaker 4: smoking cigarettes at age like ten or eleven. They pretty

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Speaker 4: much only drink soda.

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Speaker 5: Ooh, what an interesting combination.

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Speaker 3: This religion is.

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Speaker 6: Like my yeah, I'm so confused. Do they all live

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Speaker 6: in the same place like the homage.

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Speaker 4: To kind of kind of? So they live in they

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Speaker 4: live in the town that I live in, and I'm

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Speaker 4: not really sure. I'm not really sure how far this

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Speaker 4: sort of goes outside of my town. But you know,

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Speaker 4: there's a pretty significant population of them here.

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Speaker 2: So how many how many people in the town are

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Speaker 2: members of the group?

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Speaker 5: And like how big is the group? Would you say?

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Speaker 4: There's probably a hundred of them? Okay, okay, So I

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Speaker 4: mean they form a significant portion of the population, and

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Speaker 4: it's like.

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Speaker 5: A fixture of the town.

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Speaker 2: Like you go out and you see them, they're like, yes,

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Speaker 2: walking around in their dresses and stuff.

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Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, so me, yeah, I'm fundamentally very fundamentalis one

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Speaker 4: of the interesting things about you know them, is that

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Speaker 4: they are they're only allowed to have jobs, like manual

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Speaker 4: labor jobs, so they can really only like they can

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Speaker 4: only do trades. Interesting, Okay, it's like Amish without like

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Speaker 4: any sort of aversion to technology. Like they go to

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Speaker 4: school with, you know, everybody, but they really close themselves

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Speaker 4: off from people, especially sort of the older they get.

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Speaker 4: You know, they're they're just like a people that you

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Speaker 4: were very like living here, you're very aware of growing up.

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Speaker 4: You know, I knew I knew a lot of them,

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Speaker 4: just had friends. But sort of the older they got,

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Speaker 4: you know, through you know, grade school and middle school

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Speaker 4: into high school, you know, they they sort of start

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Speaker 4: to push you know, the others out a bit, and

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Speaker 4: it becomes basically like they only interact with each other

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Speaker 4: and sort of date each other. So it's a lot

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Speaker 4: of like you know, it's a lot of like first

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Speaker 4: and second nerd like maybe not first, but like second

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Speaker 4: and third cousin marriages and stuff. So it is very

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Speaker 4: much kept within sort of like the religion is kept

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Speaker 4: within the religion. There's very few kind of outsiders that

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Speaker 4: are brought in.

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Speaker 2: Right, So, you had had interactions with this group before

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Speaker 2: that were like fine and pleasant.

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Speaker 5: It wasn't like they like just hated.

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Speaker 2: You prior to this incident, or like you hated them

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Speaker 2: or anything, Right, it was just like, yeah, this kind

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Speaker 2: of Facebook controversy triggered this whole thing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean Facebook is Facebook's pretty poisonous. I I

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Speaker 4: stand by that, especially, you know, especially back in like,

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Speaker 4: you know, the early aughts.

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Speaker 2: Facebook groups were like a very cool thing.

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Speaker 5: In the beginning. It was the first time I felt

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Speaker 5: like I really.

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Speaker 2: Had that specific of kinds of community online. I feel like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: because I wasn't a Reddit girl, and like Tumblr wasn't

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Speaker 2: that communal, and my Space wasn't that communal. So Facebook

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Speaker 2: was more like really tailoring your interests. Ah, we are

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Speaker 2: the women in Los Angeles who are somewhat associated with

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Speaker 2: the comedy scene, you know, or whatever it is.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was just it was just so interesting. I

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Speaker 4: mean I find myself like even now, like every day

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Speaker 4: I get like a reminder it's like, here are your

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Speaker 4: memories reaching back to two thousand and eight, and it's

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Speaker 4: like I do like a quick skim of everything that

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Speaker 4: I posted May. Most of it was like, you know,

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Speaker 4: twenty eleven, twelve, and thirteen. It's like a delete, delete, delete.

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Speaker 4: This period where I felt like everyone needed to post

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Speaker 4: everything that they thought on and it's not even like

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Speaker 4: it wasn't even like conversational like Twitter or something like that,

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Speaker 4: where you know, they're sort of chiming in. It was

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Speaker 4: just sort of like you would just like post something

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Speaker 4: and then it would just you know, it wouldn't garner

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Speaker 4: any reaction. But yeah, yeah, you know I was. I

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Speaker 4: was a pretty like volatile teenager too, Like I really like,

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Speaker 4: you know, being what how what I consider to be

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Speaker 4: like a fairly like left wing art kid in you know,

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Speaker 4: like suburban Wyoming was probably not you know right, and

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Speaker 4: like a real like a real like bone to pick

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Speaker 4: with people. So like any anyway, anytime someone would say

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Speaker 4: something like that, I would sort of like retaliate, and

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Speaker 4: you know it was you know, sort of how it was,

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Speaker 4: but it kind of quickly, like coming back to it,

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Speaker 4: it kind of quickly escalated the point where you know,

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Speaker 4: I spent you know, three to four years just being

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Speaker 4: terrorized by sort of the religion at large.

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Speaker 5: Wow, So walk us through the steps.

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Speaker 2: Walk us through how like it goes from this post

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Speaker 2: to like such extreme behavior, Like how how does it

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Speaker 2: kind of start spreading?

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Speaker 4: Well, okay, so going back to the beginning. So there's

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Speaker 4: this Facebook post and I basically yeah, they're talking about

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Speaker 4: like butchering gay people and using them as you know,

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Speaker 4: kindling of fires and stuff like that. So I get

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Speaker 4: on and call them in bread and which immediately sets

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Speaker 4: off a chain of events where there's like just tons

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Speaker 4: of people just dming me, just telling me they're going

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Speaker 4: to kill me and stuff. And I like, at this

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Speaker 4: point in time, I am not capable of backing down.

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Speaker 4: But I'm not, like, you know, I'm not like an

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Speaker 4: intimidating presence. So so the only way I can, uh,

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Speaker 4: the only way I can get back at them is

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Speaker 4: to just sort of like hit on them. Okay, what

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Speaker 4: do you mean, like like like you said, like trolling them.

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Speaker 4: It would it would be sort of like they would

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Speaker 4: be telling me they were they were going to kill me,

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Speaker 4: and I would just like like their Facebook pictures and

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Speaker 4: just like comment that they were they were like cute

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Speaker 4: and they like really liked their outfits and things like that.

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Speaker 5: And is it men? Isn't men doing it only? Or

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Speaker 5: is it the other women too?

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Speaker 4: They're all they're all but I but but I'm pretty

404
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Speaker 4: much like you know, I'm I'm like, I'm pretty much

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Speaker 4: just fighting with the men. It wasn't it wasn't even

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Speaker 4: like a fight, you know, I really like I don't

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Speaker 4: at this time, I just like didn't really realize what

408
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Speaker 4: I was doing because I remember very clearly like sitting,

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Speaker 4: you know, at my mom's house with like my high

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Speaker 4: school friends, like on my computer, like you know, like

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Speaker 4: having there's people messaging me and they're like, you know,

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Speaker 4: we're gonna kill you. And I'm you know, like commenting

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Speaker 4: on like the color of their lips and things, right

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Speaker 4: and yeah, and it so I'm I don't know if

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Speaker 4: you could tell, like I'm very I'm even now, like

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Speaker 4: it's been like ten years, I'm still very uncomfortable talking

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Speaker 4: about it because it like I like was sort of

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Speaker 4: egging them on, yeah, and I didn't necessarily like understand

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Speaker 4: like how severe that it was going to get. But

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Speaker 4: it uh yeah, so you know, for a couple of weeks,

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Speaker 4: like you know, and it continues, this continues for weeks,

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Speaker 4: but nobody, like a few of my high school friends know,

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Speaker 4: but like nobody, my family doesn't really know. Nobody really

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Speaker 4: uh nobody is really like privy to any of this.

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Speaker 4: And I'm sort of doing it in private, and it

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Speaker 4: starts escalating to the point where like, yeah, I'm getting

427
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Speaker 4: you know, I'm getting phone calls at like two am

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Speaker 4: from like ten to fifteen different numbers that are yeah,

429
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Speaker 4: that are like telling me that again, I'm sixteen, seventeen.

430
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Speaker 4: I would get phone calls, you know, at like two

431
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Speaker 4: three in the morning from these people basically telling me,

432
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Speaker 4: you know, that they just wanted to talk to me.

433
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Speaker 4: I should leave my house and go to a there's

434
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Speaker 4: a there's a sort of a well known park around here,

435
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:19,960
Speaker 4: but I should just go to this park and talk

436
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:21,680
Speaker 4: to them in the middle of the night. They won't

437
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,800
Speaker 4: hurt me, but I should not tell anybody that I'm

438
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Speaker 4: going there.

439
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Speaker 5: Oh my god.

440
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Speaker 4: Yeah, so like be right there, yes, exactly. So like

441
00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,760
Speaker 4: as as like a seventeen year old who was like

442
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,280
Speaker 4: figured myself, you know, like smarter than the average bear,

443
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,159
Speaker 4: I would I would just sort of say, okay, I

444
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:40,760
Speaker 4: say I'll be there in a minute, and then I

445
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,400
Speaker 4: just wouldn't show up, you know, an hour later, two

446
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,960
Speaker 4: hours later, they would you know, they would continue to

447
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,240
Speaker 4: call me, ask me where I was, at which point

448
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:49,640
Speaker 4: I'd be like, oh, I'm so sorry, I got caught

449
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:51,160
Speaker 4: up doing something. I'll be there in a minute.

450
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,720
Speaker 2: Wait what makes them think you I would have any

451
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:55,400
Speaker 2: motivation to go to this.

452
00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:59,920
Speaker 4: Place exactly again, like exactly, but like you know, they

453
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,200
Speaker 4: really like there was no like I just keep getting

454
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,320
Speaker 4: calls from just done tons of numbers, tons of you know,

455
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,280
Speaker 4: tons of different people like calling me just being like

456
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,200
Speaker 4: where are you at, And it's like, well, I'm you know,

457
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 4: I'm on my way. Sorry, it's just taking a little

458
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,320
Speaker 4: bit longer. I got lost or something like that, and

459
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 4: you know, and uh, obviously I'd never show up. I'd wait,

460
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,040
Speaker 4: you know, go to bed. Like my girlfriend at the

461
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,360
Speaker 4: time is terrified, yeah, because.

462
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 3: There was no idea. She's just like night night, like.

463
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly, so you know, and but but the thing is,

464
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,080
Speaker 7: like there's no there was like very little self awareness

465
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,639
Speaker 7: on their part because like I really was just like

466
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:36,960
Speaker 7: a teenager sort of egging eight you know, and like.

467
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:40,359
Speaker 4: I was just egging the situation on. But like you

468
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 4: have seven to eight people calling me asking me why

469
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 4: I'm not going to the park in the middle of

470
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,400
Speaker 4: the night or right you know, hours later, and they're

471
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 4: wondering why I'm there. So this this proceeds to continue

472
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,199
Speaker 4: for you know, probably six months, you know, just and

473
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,359
Speaker 4: it kind of it kind of went and ebb and flow,

474
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,639
Speaker 4: where like, you know, one week, I wouldn't hear anything

475
00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 4: from them the next week. You know, my phone would

476
00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:01,680
Speaker 4: be blowing up all the time, and I.

477
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,959
Speaker 2: Am still actively trolling them throughout that entire period or

478
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:06,680
Speaker 2: are they kind of just going after you on their own?

479
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 4: Now at this point, they're just sort of like going

480
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 4: after me on their own, you know, beyond this one

481
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 4: sort of Facebook interaction, I haven't had anything. And it

482
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 4: just sort of like when I when they would when

483
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 4: they would interact with me, I would sort of interact back,

484
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 4: you know, as far as like when they'd call me

485
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 4: or things like that, you know, I would I would

486
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,240
Speaker 4: do you know that I would like, Okay, I'll be

487
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 4: there in a minute, and then just never show up.

488
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 4: Or so then it starts. I remember so specifically I

489
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 4: went to go see I had just gotten a puppy,

490
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,879
Speaker 4: or my mom had just got a puppy, this Australian

491
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:39,919
Speaker 4: shepherd dog. And at this point I had sort of

492
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 4: thought it was over with, but just gotten this Australian

493
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 4: shepherd puppy, and she had, uh, she had wanted to

494
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 4: go see the movie The Gray, the William Niese and

495
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 4: Wolf movie, and but we but we couldn't leave the

496
00:22:55,040 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 4: puppy alone. So and at this point I think, yeah,

497
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 4: I must have. I must have been like seventeen or

498
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,199
Speaker 4: eighteen or something something like that is in twenty eleven.

499
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 4: So we couldn't leave the puppy alone. So we had

500
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 4: a like a family friend of ours's daughter who I

501
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 4: think was maybe like eleven or twelve, like just babysitting age,

502
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,719
Speaker 4: you know, uh, you know, she got paid a little bit,

503
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 4: she got to watch the dog. So I go to

504
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,639
Speaker 4: the movies of my mom, and when I get out

505
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 4: of the theater, my mom's phone just has like dozens

506
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 4: and dozens of messages, and uh so I at this

507
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,879
Speaker 4: point am like I have a really bad feeling, and

508
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:37,760
Speaker 4: my mom is like, my mom is like what is

509
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,640
Speaker 4: what if? Why I why to have all these messages?

510
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:44,880
Speaker 4: So she calls and the girl who's watching her dogs,

511
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 4: it's her mother who's like, hey, uh, what's going on.

512
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 4: But there, I guess, you know, something like like fifteen

513
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 4: to twenty individuals with like pipes and chains just like

514
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 4: filed into my mom's porch and like surrounded my house

515
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 4: like looking for me.

516
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

517
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, and uh in just like being terrified that

518
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 4: like little girl had like told them that I was

519
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 4: at the movie theater. At which point, like my mom,

520
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 4: I'm watching her be like like very concerned, like very quickly,

521
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 4: and uh, you know, I because I've sort of been

522
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 4: like harboring the secret that I've been like sort of

523
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,400
Speaker 4: egging on, egging on a you know, an entire religion,

524
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,879
Speaker 4: I guess, for for a couple of months. So uh,

525
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 4: Basically she gets off the phone and she's like what

526
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,199
Speaker 4: the fuck, Like there are people, you know, there are

527
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 4: people you know, surrounding our house, Like what is going on?

528
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 4: At which point, someone from the movie theater because it's like,

529
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 4: you know, it's like a hometown movie theater, Like it's

530
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 4: a lot of teenagers come comes and tells me like

531
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 4: asking is like, hey are you are you Josh Lobo?

532
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 4: At which point I'm like and they're like, like lock

533
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 4: the movie theater doors because like like dozens of these

534
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 4: people showed up. Look, Wow.

535
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 5: That sounds fake, Josh, how is that feel?

536
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 4: No? I swear to God. Yeah. Yeah. So I had

537
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 4: like finally dish on I finally dish on the goings,

538
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 4: on which point my mom is like horrified. You know,

539
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 4: She's like so terrified now because like these people they

540
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 4: started like showing up to our house, like you know,

541
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 4: they like drive by and like ring the doorbell like

542
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 4: two am, and like, you.

543
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 3: Know, did you get the police involved at the movie?

544
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: Yeah?

545
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah for sure. No, Like so so get I

546
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 4: get the police involved, but the police are kind of

547
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 4: like we can't really like what are we gonna do? Yeah,

548
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 4: in a very typical police fashion, they could not do anything.

549
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 5: You know, it's just sort of like they'd actually attacked

550
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 5: you or something.

551
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, they killed me. The police could do something, but

552
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 4: at this point, no, they can't. But so get we

553
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,919
Speaker 4: get the police involved, and you know they sort of

554
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 4: like warm, it's like they can't do anything, but they

555
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 4: warn them that they need to leave me alone.

556
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 5: So you see, do you see them there?

557
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 4: Then?

558
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 2: Like are you is it like a standoff where you're

559
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 2: there and the group is there?

560
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 5: Also where at the.

561
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 4: No No No, I was sort of just told by

562
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 4: like employees that they had to like lock the doors

563
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 4: and like boost them out and like threaten to call

564
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 4: the cops because you know, a bunch of people like

565
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,679
Speaker 4: fucking show up with pipes and chains and uh, you

566
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 4: know are are looking to find somebody, you know, at

567
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 4: least at least at least like the movie theater teeners

568
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 4: had like the presence of mind to be like oh

569
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 4: no problem, yeah, probably not mmmm yeah. At this point,

570
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 4: like everyone around me is just like horrified and like

571
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 4: you know, my mom, My mom has a lawyer and

572
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,479
Speaker 4: so he's like trying to get a restraining order. But

573
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 4: that you know is you know doesn't really pan out

574
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 4: because they can't really do anything. So it dies. It

575
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 4: dies down for a little while, you know, because they

576
00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 4: blew their proverbial load showing up everywhere to like everyone

577
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:02,439
Speaker 4: the way everyone all these people like sort of described

578
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 4: it as like the Warriors. They just like showed up

579
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 4: like a gang, like you know, like r U O

580
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 4: over Facebook and woul.

581
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 2: Did you ever find out like how old the people

582
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 2: that came were, Like was it a group of teenage

583
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 2: boys or like men?

584
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 4: It was like it was like a family event. They

585
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,719
Speaker 4: like brought like children from like the age of like

586
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 4: eleven to like board to like forty. So it's like

587
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,199
Speaker 4: the full gamut of like and you know there's you know,

588
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 4: they're real, Like I remember I remember the one I

589
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 4: was like instigating. Yeah, and also like you know, i'd

590
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 4: say that you know, they were dumb. I also probably

591
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 4: was not like you know because the one that I

592
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 4: was like instigating with was his his Facebook uh his

593
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 4: Facebook picture. I remember. I remember I was him with

594
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 4: a gun and like like the barrel is like pointed in.

595
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,360
Speaker 5: Oh my god. Yeah, so yeah, smart.

596
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 4: Smart obviously obviously the one that you should, you know,

597
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 4: call cute. And yeah, they're they're they're probably they're probably

598
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 4: gonna find the humor in that. But yeah, so so

599
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 4: everything kind of dies down for a little while and

600
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 4: then but like I still periodically see them and they

601
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 4: are I mean it really is, like honestly, like I would,

602
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 4: I would almost compare them more to like skinheads. Yeah,

603
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:22,360
Speaker 4: like they really they really are, Like I don't think

604
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 4: that's you know, being disingenuous at all. I think they

605
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 4: really are sort of like the skinheads of like of

606
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 4: like Christian Yeah.

607
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, totally.

608
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds like a hate group that happens to

609
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 2: go to church.

610
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 5: Almost.

611
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 4: Yes, that's totally. And they're very superior. I mean I

612
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,719
Speaker 4: still you know, to this day, you know, I have

613
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 4: a restaurant bar uh and they come in all the

614
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 4: time now ten years later, so I sort of deal

615
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 4: with them on the on the regular and they're just

616
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 4: horrible to all my employees and everything.

617
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 2: So like a biker gang, Like what if a men

618
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 2: dressed like is there is there a particular style of

619
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 2: that the men have.

620
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 4: The best way if you think like easter clothing, like

621
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 4: like like flannel shirts, kakis and like vands. That's sort

622
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 4: of like it's like everybody they always just look like

623
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 4: they're going out like Easter brunch.

624
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 5: It's like fascinating.

625
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like a mixture of like Easter brunch, but

626
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 4: also like you know, race war kind of.

627
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 3: Do they have tattoos?

628
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 4: No, no, no, no tattoos, No tattoos. I don't think

629
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 4: they're allowed to drink caffeine. Well no, I guess because

630
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 4: they drink mountain dew. They can't drink booze at all.

631
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 4: But they come into Yeah, but they also we also

632
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 4: have food, so you know they eat.

633
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 2: So can you describe visually what they kind of look

634
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 2: like and why is evokes gang and not just religion?

635
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 4: Well, I mean yeah, yeah, so really like because they

636
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 4: are like a subsection of Christianity. But I mean, like

637
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 4: you know, today there's so many different kinds. It's not

638
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 4: like this is not like your mom's Christianity. Like I

639
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 4: mean really like I think you said earlier, they're like

640
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 4: like skinhead like Mennonites, you know, very like sort of classical.

641
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 4: You know again like women always wear dresses there, always

642
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 4: always wear sweaters, are always very they're completely covered up.

643
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 4: The men they look very militant, you know, they look

644
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 4: like at any point, I mean, they just sort of

645
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 4: look like criminals.

646
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 2: And is there and do they have a criminal history

647
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 2: outside of this experience with you, like have you do

648
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 2: know about like criminal goings on, like is it a gang?

649
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 4: Yeah? I mean even tho when we're talking about cults,

650
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 4: I'm like, I don't know, Like to me, I think,

651
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 4: like you know, identifiers, I'm like, yes, this is very

652
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 4: obviously a cult. But yeah, you know, I mean after

653
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 4: everything that sort of transpired, I would get periodic calls

654
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 4: from my lawyer just sort of like heads up because

655
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 4: they were like I sort of greatly underestimated like how

656
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 4: severe this was. And so you know, I'd get calls

657
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 4: from my lawyer being like, you know, and so there

658
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 4: is on the lamb. You know, they they've thought, you know,

659
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 4: he killed somebody on the Indian reservation and you know,

660
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 4: so just watch out or like you know, this one

661
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 4: was dishonorably discharged and from the military and is like

662
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 4: around so like you know, stay the fuck off Facebook,

663
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 4: so like yeah, I mean you know, and like being

664
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 4: updated about that, you know, for a couple of years,

665
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 4: like it really like I think, honestly it kind of

666
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 4: pretty much died off about twenty fourteen. So but I

667
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 4: mean from twenty eleven to twenty fourteen, it's like a

668
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 4: three year stint where like, you know, my lawyer has

669
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 4: to call me to tell me that someone murdered somebody

670
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 4: and is on the lamb and I should walk out

671
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 4: because so this.

672
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 2: Is like a legitimately like violent I mean maybe not,

673
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 2: maybe not everyone in the group is violent, but at

674
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 2: least this like section of in your town that these

675
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 2: particular sets of family are like there is a history

676
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 2: of violence there. It's not just yes or like yeah,

677
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 2: randomly terrorizing you only yeah.

678
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 4: Yeah or again like I said, it's like probably probably

679
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 4: not all of them. I'm sure they're a night just

680
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 4: like you know, everything is gray. I'm sure there's like

681
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 4: very nice ones honestly, like probably I've met, but like

682
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 4: more of them than I know are kind of air

683
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 4: on the side of like you know this again, like

684
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 4: you don't just you know, you don't just like rally

685
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 4: together like you know, twenty five people, you know to

686
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 4: you know, if if my friend called me and told

687
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 4: me he needed to beat somebody up, I probably would decline,

688
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 4: you know, like let let alone like go and like

689
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 4: on somebody dow or try to up on somebody down

690
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 4: from like their house to like their last known location.

691
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 4: So you know, obviously there's something there. But so everything

692
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 4: kind of kind of dies down for a little while.

693
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 4: And then, uh, my girlfriend at the time was two

694
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 4: years younger than me, so I had just graduated. I

695
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 4: had just graduated high school, so she was like a

696
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 4: junior or something like that, and she was a swimmer,

697
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 4: and so I, uh, before I moved to LA it

698
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 4: was sort of in that interim period. I don't know

699
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 4: if you just took any like gap time between college

700
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 4: or whatever, but it took like a couple months before

701
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 4: I went to college, and I was just sort of

702
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 4: around and my girlfriend was a swimmer, and I would

703
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 4: so I would go to a lot of her swim meets, uh,

704
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 4: and so they would travel all over the state. And

705
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 4: I had gone to one of her meets and and

706
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 4: came back a little early and I went I went

707
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 4: to a store like our Target to buy some flowers,

708
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 4: and I ended up running in like I was, I

709
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 4: was shopping, and you know I people were just fucking

710
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 4: yelling at me. And yeah, that day that was a

711
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 4: big thing too. It is like anywhere you go in public,

712
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 4: are just like yelling, but there's so many of them everywhere,

713
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 4: and it sort of like traveled. It really did. It

714
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 4: felt like it was crazy. It felt like almost like

715
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 4: Stepford Wives, because like even though I had only pissed off,

716
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 4: I had pissed off one family, but like it had

717
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 4: sort of traveled through all of the other families. So

718
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 4: anywhere anywhere I would go, I could see like family B, C, D. E.

719
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 4: And they would look at me like I was like

720
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 4: public enemy number one. And like we became very conscious

721
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 4: of it, especially my mom who was just terrified all

722
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 4: the time, you know, because we had a like gosh,

723
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 4: I mean, she had dogs and was terrified they were

724
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:08,800
Speaker 4: gonna come kill all of our dogs.

725
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 2: We would have quick warning to our listeners, there's about

726
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 2: to be a description of graphic animal abuse. So go

727
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 2: ahead and skip ahead a couple of minutes if you

728
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 2: want to skip that part.

729
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, no. I mean, like I had talked to one

730
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 4: of the things I talked to Lolo about is or

731
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 4: before I I before I had a luck of them

732
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 4: or run a foul of them. I guess they I

733
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 4: was at a party at high school and at one

734
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 4: of their houses without knowing it, and they as like

735
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 4: a as like a joke. They like buried a cat

736
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 4: up to its neck and the dirt and like ran

737
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 4: over it with a lawnmower.

738
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:50,839
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, did you see this happen? Yeah, And

739
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 2: no one was like, hey, don't do that.

740
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 4: I don't think anyone really. I don't think people really

741
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 4: like expect you to do that. You know, Like it's

742
00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 4: like like it's like a thing that when.

743
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 5: It's mouth is still open, it's.

744
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:09,720
Speaker 4: Just like severe PTSD. Like talking about this is crazy.

745
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 4: Like even just sort of like speaking about it in

746
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 4: like a serious ways I find. Yeah, it's pretty honestly

747
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 4: pretty frightening. It was. It was very it was pretty frightening.

748
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 3: That's so dark. That's so awful. They would kill your

749
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 3: dogs obviously of course.

750
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's fucking horrible. Like let's just say that,

751
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 2: like that is awful. I can't That's the height of cruelty.

752
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,320
Speaker 5: I don't. I don't know why anyone would do that.

753
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, let alone in public like where people can see

754
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 2: you do that, like you want people to know that

755
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 2: you do that.

756
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, they don't give it. Yeah. I don't want to

757
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 4: compare them to Mormonism at all, because like I actually

758
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 4: know like a lot of Mormons that I really like.

759
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 4: I think that there's this really interesting and like actually

760
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,080
Speaker 4: like it's just like this part of Mormonism that I've

761
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 4: always always like very fascinating, very cool, where like you

762
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 4: basically like if one person is sick, everyone chips in

763
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:06,439
Speaker 4: to help them out.

764
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very communal. It's very help your neighbor.

765
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 4: Based, yeah, which I which I think is like really

766
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 4: positive thing that I actually funny enough. I actually just

767
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 4: think that like regular people could like learn a lot

768
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 4: from that totally. But I think I think these guys

769
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 4: have that sort of thing, but in sort of the

770
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 4: opposite way, like they cover up for each other and

771
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 4: ship all the time, and you know. But yeah, so

772
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 4: you know, I go to the store to you know,

773
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 4: back to go to the store by my girlfriends and

774
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 4: flowers and immediately to hear people screaming at me, and

775
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 4: I know exactly what's going on, and I turn around

776
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,320
Speaker 4: there's just a bunch of them. There's like five or six.

777
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 4: And at those points, like I had known like a

778
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 4: lot of their names and then things, and so they

779
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 4: they you know, they're in Walmart and they're fucking getting

780
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 4: in my face and yelling at me, and I, you know,

781
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 4: immediately just defaulted what I had default to do before,

782
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 4: where like I just like was just like calling them

783
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 4: cute and like com you're not.

784
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 5: De Escalation is not your strong suit at this point.

785
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,359
Speaker 4: In your yeah, which like you.

786
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 3: Know, how can you escalate that?

787
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,359
Speaker 6: Though, Like if you're like I'm sorry, then they're like,

788
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 6: oh weakness, Now we're going to kill you.

789
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 2: Like I don't know, No, I mean you don't have

790
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 2: but like taunting them probably isn't the thing.

791
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, I would just run you walk away.

792
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, you run, you live and you learn. And like I,

793
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 4: you know, as a teenager, I don't think you have

794
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 4: a lot of you know, I don't think you have

795
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 4: a lot of like presence of mind to be like

796
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 4: I should probably let you know, like this is probably

797
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 4: gonna make this worse, but uh yeah, so you know,

798
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 4: I just sort of default, like calling them cute and

799
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 4: like I mean really like it was just sort of

800
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 4: like haunting them in a very yeah I'm controlling trolling them, yeah,

801
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 4: even in person. And it's I've always had kind of

802
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 4: a dry sense of humor, and so it's like I

803
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 4: would just I thought that was funny, and they did not,

804
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 4: And so they're they're getting real upset and they're like

805
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 4: pushing stuff off the shelves and they're telling me they're

806
00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:59,399
Speaker 4: gonna kill me, and that they you know, they're gonna

807
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 4: come to my house. And and you weren't.

808
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 2: Scared at that point, like or you were scared, and

809
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 2: it just like kind of your instinct is coatrol and

810
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 2: it just kicked in and you weren't thinking much about

811
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:10,959
Speaker 2: it either way.

812
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 4: I like wasn't scared as a thing, and like as

813
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:18,879
Speaker 4: an adult now, I'm like, fuck, like I this is horrifying,

814
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 4: and like everyone around me was terrified, like my family,

815
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,760
Speaker 4: everybody like it would just it just became like real

816
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 4: like they were all but I just wasn't, And I

817
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,439
Speaker 4: just thought that it was funny to continue to sort

818
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 4: of like prod them because they were just like overreacting

819
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 4: in such like a crazy way that it was like

820
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 4: you know that it was just like hah, like whatever,

821
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 4: like and I I was, yeah, so you know, they're

822
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 4: they're they're you know, hipping stuff over on the shelves,

823
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 4: and immediately some old guy comes and you know, it's

824
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 4: like kids need to fuck off, like you know, at

825
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 4: which point, like they sort of just like turn there.

826
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,879
Speaker 4: It's like the ridicual shifts from me to this old

827
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 4: man who is like telling him to fuck off, and

828
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 4: they like start like you know, like pushing him over

829
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 4: and like pushing his card over and they're yelling at

830
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 4: each other. And at which point I just am like

831
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 4: all right and like I leave, uh you know, I

832
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 4: just I was just like, okay, this is is the

833
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 4: time to make my exit.

834
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, and he's the old man. Honestly, well, when.

835
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 4: I say old man, like at a time, like this

836
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:21,720
Speaker 4: guy's probably like in his forties. Like at the time,

837
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 4: I was like, this guy's old guy.

838
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 2: Like whatever, Like he he was not like a seventy

839
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 2: year old man in a wheelchair.

840
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 5: You're like, fuck you.

841
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 4: It's like some suburban dad who like was just like

842
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 4: hey you kids, like get out here, like stop sucking

843
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 4: you know. Uh So yeah, so I basically just like, well,

844
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 4: let the parents deal with this, like I'll just go, well,

845
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 4: I leave and you know, they're yelling at me, and

846
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 4: I go to the parking lot and get in my

847
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 4: car and you know, they're screaming, and there's just they're

848
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 4: just everywhere. They're just all over the place because they

849
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 4: travel in like a pack. They really like they traveling

850
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 4: like a pack. And that evening, yeah, I just kept

851
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 4: I finally sort of was like I should probably just

852
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,359
Speaker 4: stop like interacting with in any way, shape or form,

853
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 4: because like they were, they were they really like they

854
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 4: were really like in my face, and uh yeah they

855
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:11,320
Speaker 4: uh yeah. So I'm I'm I'm talking to my mom

856
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 4: and then I just start we just like it's like

857
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:16,399
Speaker 4: one or so in the morning. I've been getting phone

858
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,839
Speaker 4: calls and like I just am like not gonna, you know,

859
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 4: take her down this. My mom is like I can

860
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 4: like watch my mom like going gray like and I'm

861
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 4: just like I'm not gonna bother her with this right now.

862
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,879
Speaker 4: And uh so, like one or two in the morning, Uh,

863
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 4: all of a sudden, there's just like like banging like

864
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 4: ton like like banging banging, banging, and it's I mean

865
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 4: it is like I live I live in like the suburbs.

866
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 4: So like it's very you know, I mean, yeah, it's

867
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,800
Speaker 4: gone fire. It's gone fire. So like I we we

868
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 4: run outside and we're like what the fuck. My car

869
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,720
Speaker 4: is just like absolutely like just total.

870
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 5: So they've shot up your car.

871
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:57,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, They've shot up my car and like like attacked

872
00:40:57,719 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 4: it with tire irons and so I mean my car

873
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 4: is like just like throy there's glass everywhere, like are

874
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 4: going off, like people's fucking lights are going on, and

875
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 4: you know, they like bullet holes in the side of

876
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 4: the car they shot with like they shot like a

877
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 4: shotgun and you know.

878
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,280
Speaker 5: Just stuff Jesus Christ.

879
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 4: So at which point, like obviously there's like gunfire, uh

880
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 4: in like a suburban area, so immediately the police department

881
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 4: is called, but like they deploy. They're like they're like

882
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 4: the like task force, you know, so like people in

883
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 4: bullet you know, like whoa proof gear like, So within

884
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 4: like moments there's like cars and cars and cars and

885
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 4: cars like sort of descending on my street, at which

886
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 4: point they think that like my mom and I have

887
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 4: like done this, yeah, but my mom is like who

888
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 4: has just like had enough? So like these guys like

889
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 4: have like ar fifteens, you know, because like this this

890
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 4: from all intent's purpose. This could be you know, a shooting,

891
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 4: could be anything. So like I am just like terrified

892
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 4: and I get on the get on the ground, and

893
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 4: these police officers like get on the ground. My mom

894
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:05,800
Speaker 4: is like, it's the coolest thing ever. Maybe I respect

895
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 4: my mom to know end because my mom is a

896
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 4: my mom uh is like standing like like pointing at

897
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 4: like police officers wearing like riot gear being like fuck

898
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:20,359
Speaker 4: you no, be like this is my fucking house. And

899
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:21,839
Speaker 4: I'm just like, mom, just like get on the ground.

900
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 4: They're gonna kill you.

901
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 5: Like, oh my god.

902
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 4: So yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, it was like

903
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 4: a big deal. So like obviously my shit is I

904
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 4: it has just like escalated to like a new level.

905
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,359
Speaker 4: And it gets now the cops are involved. They're trying

906
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 4: to find these people because again, like they cannot prove it.

907
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 4: So I get like a like a for life I

908
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 4: essentially have to go through the courts to get like

909
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 4: a for life restraining order against them, and then I

910
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 4: end up having to go to court with them.

911
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:53,280
Speaker 2: That is the fucked up thing about getting a restraining

912
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 2: order is that you have to then face the person

913
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,240
Speaker 2: who's been stalking you in person?

914
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 5: Like why does that? How does that make anybody?

915
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 6: The stocking people we were talking to you said, stalkers

916
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 6: want you to get a restraining order on them sometimes

917
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 6: so they can see you.

918
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like the it's like literally the only thing

919
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 4: that like could happen. I remember, just it's like, no,

920
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 4: there's no like repercussions or anything for any of this.

921
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 4: But it's like they can't they can't prove it. And

922
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 4: you know, it was still like again like early in

923
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 4: the aughts, so it's like there's no, there's not like

924
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 4: video footage like today, you know, everyone in their camera

925
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 4: like there's you know, so it wasn't wasn't like that then.

926
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:31,439
Speaker 4: So no, they had no they had no idea. So yeah,

927
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 4: I eventually have to go to court with them, and

928
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 4: I remember like having to go into uh the courthouse

929
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 4: and uh like the like plead to the judge and

930
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 4: be like, hey, people are gonna kill me. But like

931
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 4: the the funny part was like like on my side

932
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 4: of the court, it was like like me, my mom

933
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 4: and my lawyer and nobody else. And then like but

934
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 4: they decided to like bring the entire not literally but

935
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 4: like you know, so like their side is just packed.

936
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 4: There's like and dozens of people everyone. I mean, they

937
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,240
Speaker 4: could have been going for church, and the thing is like, yeah,

938
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 4: they all sort of look similar, so it is. It's

939
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 4: just like it could have it could so easily just

940
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 4: be like a comedy skit because it was. It was

941
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 4: just like filled with people like dressed in like their

942
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 4: Sunday bests that are like having to like get up

943
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:22,359
Speaker 4: in front of the judge and be like why sir,

944
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 4: I would never do anything like this, you know, and

945
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 4: they're doing that, and the judge is just like shut

946
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 4: the fuck up, like I know you did this, Like

947
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 4: you know, we can't prove it, but like I know

948
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 4: you all did this, and like this fucking shit is

949
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:36,919
Speaker 4: not you know, this is not fooling anybody. At which point,

950
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 4: like you know, you got like I mean literally like

951
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 4: it could have been like the you know, the past

952
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 4: of green room. You know, just like tons of skinheads

953
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 4: and they and a lot of them are like they

954
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 4: actually are that's they are you know balden?

955
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 5: Oh they are yeah.

956
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, so like they do look like they do look

957
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:54,720
Speaker 4: like skinning.

958
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 5: Are they all bald? Is that like part of the style?

959
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 4: No, no, I just think that they so I again

960
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 4: to sort of keep keep the religion insular, they marry

961
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 4: a lot of their like like second and third cousins

962
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 4: or there's like a lot there's a lot of family crossover,

963
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 4: which is obviously why fucking as a teenager just you know,

964
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 4: defaulted calling him inbred. But they just you know, so

965
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 4: it's all so the people sort of look similar and

966
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 4: and and so I think they have a lot of like,

967
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 4: you know, the same genes. So maybe if you know

968
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 4: that hair isn't strong in their gene, cool, they don't

969
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 4: have a lot of hair.

970
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, okay, but.

971
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 4: But yeah, so I mean, you know, I have to

972
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 4: go through the whole legal process to like try to

973
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 4: get these fucking people away from me, uh which which

974
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 4: took you know another year. Basically basically it stopped because

975
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 4: I moved to LA. Which it was like the joke

976
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 4: around Christmas of that year that like everything was good

977
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,240
Speaker 4: because I move to LA and could like stop being

978
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 4: like terrorized by uh wow.

979
00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 2: So then when you moved back, one of the InterACT's

980
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:01,840
Speaker 2: been like yeah.

981
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 4: It's like moving back you know, like obviously like I

982
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 4: am an adult and uh am less sort of eager

983
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 4: to uh, you know, instigate, so really like there isn't

984
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 4: a lot of you know there, like I don't I

985
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:17,319
Speaker 4: don't interact with them. I see them you know all

986
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 4: the time, like sort of can't not and I hear

987
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 4: about things, you know, they sort of do this ship

988
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 4: to other people too, but like my my experience sort

989
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 4: of ended ended there, which yeah, yeah, yeah, I genuinely

990
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 4: believe that, like now, like looking back at it as

991
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 4: an adult, I genuinely believe that, like I probably there

992
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 4: was like a good chance that I probably would you know,

993
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:45,879
Speaker 4: be severely heard about kid not killed like yeah, especially too,

994
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 4: because they really like they really were anti like anti gay,

995
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:51,879
Speaker 4: and like you know, I you know, I'm I'm not gay,

996
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 4: but like I have no I have no problems sort

997
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 4: of like you know what I mean, Like I don't.

998
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 5: You're you're anti hate? It sounds like.

999
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 4: Like yes, And I had no problem, like you know,

1000
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:05,399
Speaker 4: because I thought it was funny. I like I saw

1001
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 4: that these people were so anti anti gay that it

1002
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 4: was like for me, I was like it would be

1003
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 4: funny if I like what would be funny is if

1004
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 4: I like hit on them, like it like it doesn't

1005
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 4: bother me to do but to do that, but like,

1006
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,399
Speaker 4: you know, sort of even doing that, I'm like, oh,

1007
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:20,879
Speaker 4: you know, they like could have killed me because they

1008
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 4: like genuinely hate these people, which is crazy to me.

1009
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 5: And right, so thinking, so did they think that you

1010
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 5: were gay? Did they think it was like genuine.

1011
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 4: I have no idea. I have no idea. Like, you know,

1012
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 4: I'm like a I'm like a skinny, blonde haired like

1013
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 4: kid who's like into art, so like by Midwest standards

1014
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 4: like probably you know, yeah, yeah, you know, it's pretty

1015
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 4: you know, black and white here, but but yeah, I

1016
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 4: mean really like it was like a really like frightening

1017
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 4: period of time, and you know, I didn't really think

1018
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 4: about it until sort of, you know, like moving on

1019
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 4: from that, like you know, I sort of start to

1020
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 4: have like a fascination with cults, and you know, I

1021
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 4: read a lot of you know, read a lot of

1022
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 4: like Waco, you know, things on Waco and you know,

1023
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 4: like Heaven's Gate and things like that. It was like,

1024
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 4: oh shit, okay, like this they really do have like

1025
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 4: a lot of similarities to that, and especially they're sort

1026
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:18,839
Speaker 4: of like they're like mobilization right right, like being you know,

1027
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 4: being able to get like thirty, you know, thirty people

1028
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 4: together to do that. It's crazy quickly too.

1029
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1030
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, when people are when their whole identity is like

1031
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 2: connected to a group and a part of a group,

1032
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:35,279
Speaker 2: then you know, people will go to great lengths to

1033
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 2: defend that group and to kind of keep each other

1034
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 2: safe in their minds. Probably, but you know, obviously that

1035
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 2: can turn very dark. You said something about how like

1036
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 2: after they shot up your car, you like posted it

1037
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 2: on Facebook, tagging all of them.

1038
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, I guess when I've been trying to get

1039
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 4: to this entire time is uh, I was very stupid

1040
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 4: as a teenager, and yeah, you know, I don't I

1041
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 4: don't know. I I remember very clearly, like getting on

1042
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:12,760
Speaker 4: because I was just in shock and there's like police everywhere,

1043
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 4: there's like glass and broken the breeze everywhere, and like

1044
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 4: taking a bunch of pictures with it, and I just

1045
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,359
Speaker 4: could not believe. I could not believe this, and and

1046
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 4: like was so angry. So yeah, I mean, like I

1047
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 4: I like took a bunch of pictures of them, like

1048
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 4: my destroyed vehicle, and like post them on Facebook, and

1049
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 4: like a like an album called like Chris Christmas came early,

1050
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 4: and then I just like decided for some reason to

1051
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:36,399
Speaker 4: tag them in it.

1052
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 2: Which is basically like how to escalate a conflict.

1053
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 4: And continued to escalate it. Yeah, I mean my mom,

1054
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 4: like my mom in like moments of which I like,

1055
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:48,479
Speaker 4: I like, I obviously took it down. It's not there

1056
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 4: like with the moments of doing it. My mom is

1057
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:53,360
Speaker 4: like alerted and like physically hit she like physically hit me,

1058
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 4: and it's like, are you stupid, like you know, with

1059
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 4: which retrospect is like, yeah, it's pretty pretty stupid. I

1060
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 4: mean I think I think, like, damn it, like really,

1061
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 4: I mean really like no, I do not believe like

1062
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 4: any of this is warranted, and I think it's like

1063
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 4: a pretty frightening situation. But like I just wish, as

1064
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 4: like a teenager, I could have just shut the fuck up,

1065
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 4: which is like my my big takeaway is that like

1066
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 4: I should have just shut the fuck up because I really, like,

1067
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:22,839
Speaker 4: I like did not see like what was going on,

1068
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 4: and I really like just kept feeding it, which you know,

1069
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:29,280
Speaker 4: they were obviously for what to me was like funny

1070
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 4: joke that like me and my me and my high

1071
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:33,879
Speaker 4: school buddies like thought was you know, like these people

1072
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 4: were reacting like obviously they were really like very serious

1073
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 4: about you know, everything that I was I was doing.

1074
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 2: How do you now conceive of that kind of trolling behavior?

1075
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:48,399
Speaker 2: Like what do you think that it was achieving for you?

1076
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 2: Besides being funny and like and like do you how

1077
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,399
Speaker 2: do you would you ever do that again? Like how

1078
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 2: do you see it now?

1079
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:58,800
Speaker 4: I mean like personality wise, I sort of gravitate towards

1080
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,320
Speaker 4: I gravitate towards people that sort of like push buttons,

1081
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 4: you know, like give me your filmmaker too, so like

1082
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 4: speak to you in filmmaking terms that like you know,

1083
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 4: I like one of my you know, my favorite filmmakers,

1084
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 4: Like I love like large On Treer and people like that,

1085
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 4: people that just like egg things on and sort of

1086
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:17,799
Speaker 4: like you know, like see how far they could they

1087
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 4: can push things? And I at the time I thought

1088
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:22,360
Speaker 4: it was very funny, and I, you know, I really

1089
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 4: was like, you know, just seeing how far it's It's

1090
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:26,839
Speaker 4: sort of like I don't know, when you ever were

1091
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:28,959
Speaker 4: in elementary school, if you like knew that one kid

1092
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 4: who had like anger managed by problems, and if you

1093
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 4: ever like watched there would like be people that would

1094
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 4: maybe like sort of purposely do something to like get

1095
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 4: a rise out of somebody. I liked doing that, but

1096
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 4: not I liked doing it to bullies specifically. So for me,

1097
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 4: it was like, you know, these people were obviously fucking

1098
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 4: shitty and they were saying shitty things. And twenty ten

1099
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:53,799
Speaker 4: and eleven were like a time period where, you know,

1100
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:56,359
Speaker 4: if I were to come out today and I were

1101
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 4: to just be like somebody in the Midwest and be

1102
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:04,359
Speaker 4: like I gay, I think that maybe, you know, some

1103
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:08,239
Speaker 4: people would probably talk behind my back a little bit,

1104
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 4: but it wouldn't be all that crazy ten years ago.

1105
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 4: It would ten years ago, I would it would genuinely

1106
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 4: be a big deal. And same same as far as like,

1107
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,759
Speaker 4: you know, any any sort of you know what I mean,

1108
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:22,919
Speaker 4: Like it is, it's kind of crazy how the last

1109
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 4: ten years have transpired. But I really, I really at

1110
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 4: the time, like you know, it was like a kind

1111
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 4: of an angry high school kid who is like, had

1112
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 4: like very strong beliefs and it was just like, you know,

1113
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 4: fuck you guys, like you're saying this horrible shit like

1114
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 4: and so for me, it was like it was very

1115
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 4: satisfying to try to like egg them on, which you know,

1116
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:40,240
Speaker 4: retrospect probably not good.

1117
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:43,440
Speaker 2: So you almost think you're like being a defender, like

1118
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 2: in a sort of funny edge lord way, being like

1119
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 2: a defender of the good team or something.

1120
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,920
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, which you know, obviously we noted how that

1121
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 4: turn how that turns out, but like it was, Yeah,

1122
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 4: it was like, you know, you know, these guys are

1123
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,360
Speaker 4: obviously what they're saying is some like pretty like inflammatory stuff,

1124
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 4: and like, you know, I was gonna like I was

1125
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 4: going to get the last laugh on them, and I

1126
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 4: was going to make them look like assholes in a

1127
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,239
Speaker 4: way that wasn't like I wasn't just like popping on

1128
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 4: Facebook and being like fuck you guys. You know. It

1129
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 4: was more like like I was basically like turning it

1130
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:15,879
Speaker 4: into a joke, which to them was not a joke.

1131
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's interesting. I like my mom and

1132
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 2: her dissertation. She talks about humiliation and the emotion of

1133
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 2: humiliation and how it can be very like connected to

1134
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 2: violence when when people feel humiliated, and I think in

1135
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:34,880
Speaker 2: particular men at least in our you know, in American culture,

1136
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:38,280
Speaker 2: humiliation can be one of the primary drivers for violence.

1137
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:40,759
Speaker 2: So I think about, like, you know, there's like if

1138
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,359
Speaker 2: you're doing just like a regular kind of aggression that's

1139
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 2: sort of a different It almost like doesn't cut as

1140
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:49,240
Speaker 2: deep as like making them feel ashamed or humiliated, which

1141
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:53,279
Speaker 2: totally I feel like that is kind of more what

1142
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 2: that approach was was doing. When you see like internet trolls, now,

1143
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 2: do you does any part of you relate to them?

1144
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 4: Nope? No, No. I also just think it's it's evolved

1145
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 4: way more, you know, in the last ten years. I mean,

1146
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 4: like I think I think trolling was such like a

1147
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 4: was such like a like a it was like so

1148
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:15,759
Speaker 4: much idiot's like infancy and like yeah, I mean I

1149
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 4: know the Internet it's like going on sort of thirty

1150
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 4: years old or so, but like you know, in twenty ten,

1151
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 4: like memes had just sort of started to come about,

1152
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 4: and like you know, the idea of like getting a

1153
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,279
Speaker 4: rise out of somebody over the Internet, and sort of

1154
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:30,399
Speaker 4: like because it was it's such like a public it's

1155
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:32,839
Speaker 4: like such a public domain that you get on and

1156
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:34,960
Speaker 4: you know these people are like talking about how they're

1157
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:36,759
Speaker 4: like try to kill gay people. It was just like

1158
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:38,759
Speaker 4: you know, it's like ha ha, like I'll get on

1159
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 4: here and fucking make you look like an asshole without

1160
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:45,240
Speaker 4: like just like sitting and fighting that was funny. Now

1161
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 4: it's like, especially in like a post Donald Trump world,

1162
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,319
Speaker 4: I just think it's exhausting. It's exhausting and like I

1163
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:53,879
Speaker 4: don't really understand what people are getting out of it,

1164
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 4: and it feels like everyone is so desensitized so that

1165
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 4: like the things that are edgy are now just like

1166
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:05,200
Speaker 4: incredibly hateful and racist, and you know what I mean.

1167
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 4: It's not like like before being edgy was just sort

1168
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 4: of saying something you know, off color. Now I mean

1169
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 4: like literally it's just you know.

1170
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 5: It's just being a neo nazi.

1171
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:18,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like yeah, the day Musk took over Twitter, it

1172
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 4: was like I just saw like an article about how

1173
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:23,240
Speaker 4: like the N word like surged by like five hundred

1174
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 4: million tweets. It was just like, Okay, like it's not

1175
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:28,279
Speaker 4: it's not you know what I mean. It's like it's

1176
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:30,520
Speaker 4: been around, so I think it's honestly just sort of

1177
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:31,719
Speaker 4: more pathetic now.

1178
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:32,560
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1179
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:34,920
Speaker 2: Well, and also I mean it's one thing to to

1180
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 2: do it to like troll people who are hateful, and

1181
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 2: it's another thing to just be hateful those are animals.

1182
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:46,880
Speaker 4: It just doesn't like it just didn't like solve anything,

1183
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, Like like at the end

1184
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:52,720
Speaker 4: of the day, like my family was terrified, uh lost

1185
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 4: a car and nothing happened, you know what I mean.

1186
00:55:56,200 --> 00:56:00,240
Speaker 4: I wasn't like I wasn't being like some you know, savior.

1187
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 2: Sort of just like, yeah, well, I think that's a

1188
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 2: really good point, because, you know, people send me a

1189
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 2: lot of freaking like tiktoks talking about like there's.

1190
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 5: A cult in my area and they did this fucked.

1191
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,279
Speaker 2: Up thing or whatever, and I get and I've said

1192
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:18,440
Speaker 2: this before, but I get a little uncomfy sometimes when

1193
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:19,919
Speaker 2: people send that to me, because I'm like.

1194
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:23,080
Speaker 5: What is y'all, what is the goal here? Like, are

1195
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 5: you trying to get people out of it? Because if so,

1196
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 5: the way to do it is to actually.

1197
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:32,279
Speaker 2: Like form a genuine connection with them, or are you

1198
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 2: just trying to like stigmatize them, further humiliate them, like

1199
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:40,880
Speaker 2: potentially lead them to you know, escalating behavior. I'm just like,

1200
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:44,840
Speaker 2: I don't get what that is doing other than like,

1201
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:48,239
Speaker 2: you know, kind of making yourself get a lot of

1202
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 2: like likes because you you got to talk about something

1203
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 2: that's like furtive and exciting or whatever. Anyway, So all

1204
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:57,400
Speaker 2: I'm saying is like, yeah, what would you say maybe

1205
00:56:57,440 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 2: to someone like that who's like, ooh, there's a cult

1206
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:01,400
Speaker 2: in my area and they are fucked up and violent.

1207
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 4: I don't know, purely because like I sort of believe that,

1208
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:08,160
Speaker 4: like the word cult is sort of like thrown around

1209
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:09,880
Speaker 4: a lot, and you know, I mean, it really is

1210
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 4: so popularized, and you know, like I'm writing a movie

1211
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 4: with a cult in it. You know, like everybody I

1212
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 4: know is writing a movie with a cult in it.

1213
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 4: Because I think it is like it is very easy

1214
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 4: to sort of like drink kool aid. But I also

1215
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 4: think that it's just around and everyone wants it to

1216
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:26,480
Speaker 4: be like much more than like again, like if people

1217
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 4: aren't like these people aren't like you know, hanging out

1218
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 4: in robes and stuff. Yeah, so I don't. I don't really,

1219
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 4: I don't really know. It's like it's just been popularized

1220
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 4: in a way that like.

1221
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, would you say trolling them though accomplishes anything?

1222
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 4: No, No, not at all. No. I mean just like

1223
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 4: like like I said, I like watch my mom like

1224
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 4: go gray and fucking real time.

1225
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:48,200
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1226
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 4: Like, looking looking back on it now, I'm like, man,

1227
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 4: I'm so happy I like wasn't like maimed, you know

1228
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:56,520
Speaker 4: what I mean, like killed, which I just I just

1229
00:57:56,560 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 4: think it is more frightening than anything. I don't think

1230
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:00,440
Speaker 4: it's cool. I don't really think it's you know, for

1231
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 4: a while I thought it was funny. Now I just

1232
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 4: find it, you know, like my hand my hands are

1233
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 4: sweaty now because I'm like, this is this is really

1234
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 4: like I like, really dogitable, really dogitable.

1235
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, you did. Yeah.

1236
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 2: So if some if someone is committing violence, reported to

1237
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:19,480
Speaker 2: the authorities, and if not, maybe don't go out of

1238
00:58:19,480 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 2: your way to troll Facebook.

1239
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 4: Facebook.

1240
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:24,960
Speaker 3: No problem for most of us.

1241
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 5: Obviously.

1242
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 2: The story is crazy and scary and all of those things,

1243
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 2: and I'm very sorry that that happened to you. I

1244
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 2: also want to just acknowledge those people are probably largely

1245
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 2: very indoctrinated. I don't know if they have a leader

1246
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:41,640
Speaker 2: who is sort of directing this, or if this is

1247
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:44,480
Speaker 2: just sort of like part of the culture or whatever.

1248
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 2: But you know, generally, like we try to take a

1249
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:50,920
Speaker 2: very empathetic view towards people who do have extreme beliefs.

1250
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, when you run over a cat with a lawnmower,

1251
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 6: you to know, I.

1252
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:57,040
Speaker 2: Know, but but I would imagine those are a few

1253
00:58:57,080 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 2: specific families in the group, and not everyone is doing that.

1254
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 2: You know what I mean, Like, so I don't want

1255
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 2: to make it sound like everyone in this group is

1256
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:06,000
Speaker 2: a cat murderer, you know, like I just want to

1257
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 2: name that, just say that, because yeah, within every group,

1258
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:11,680
Speaker 2: there are people who are questioning, there are people who

1259
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:14,600
Speaker 2: don't agree with the most extreme behaviors. Yeah, and there

1260
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:16,840
Speaker 2: are people who are just fully brainwashed. So I just

1261
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 2: wanted to say that out loud.

1262
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:22,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I definitely, like I do interact with these people, like,

1263
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 4: you know, like I write, I write movies, and I

1264
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 4: do movies like that is like my career, but like

1265
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:29,200
Speaker 4: my my might day job is in you know, the

1266
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:32,040
Speaker 4: restaurant industry. So I like I'm sort of like like

1267
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 4: a director of operations, like I helped run a bunch

1268
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 4: of businesses and so like I do deal with them,

1269
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:38,480
Speaker 4: and I do deal with some of these people that

1270
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 4: are I wouldn't say nice, that's not really the right word,

1271
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:45,040
Speaker 4: but like, you know, they're not like openly hostile. I guess,

1272
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 4: like the best way to put it is like pac mentality,

1273
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 4: where it really was like I like did wrong by one,

1274
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 4: which like quickly transpired to like a whole bunch of

1275
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 4: people coming, you know, like a bunch of people I've

1276
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 4: never met or interacted with in any way, shape or form.

1277
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 2: Like that's so fall Mom will probably come back on

1278
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 2: to talk about it at some point. I won't go

1279
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 2: into details right now, but like, the dangers of extreme

1280
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:08,160
Speaker 2: belief are far reaching, that is for sure.

1281
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:12,320
Speaker 4: It's just bizarre and like, uh, sort of because because

1282
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 4: I mean again, I guess like a lot of people

1283
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:16,920
Speaker 4: I know around me, I have like known about this

1284
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:18,840
Speaker 4: for years and it's just sort of something like I mean,

1285
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 4: every holiday people you know, people make jokes about it

1286
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:24,120
Speaker 4: and stuff. It's just it's just odd, not odd, but

1287
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 4: it's it's just interesting to talk about it with people

1288
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:29,920
Speaker 4: that like sort of have no you know, no connection,

1289
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:32,440
Speaker 4: like you guys are like outside parties.

1290
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 2: So yeah, oh this is a freaking crazy story, Josh.

1291
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 2: When you first told me some of these, like some

1292
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:41,400
Speaker 2: of what happened, I was like, what, how is this real?

1293
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:44,520
Speaker 2: But yeah, I I thank you for sharing. I thanks

1294
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 2: for letting us be the you know, place for you

1295
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 2: to come out.

1296
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:52,920
Speaker 4: It also isn't helped by the fact that like asshole

1297
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 4: is a teenager and so like I didn't Yeah, I

1298
01:00:56,080 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 4: guess I just like would instigate this. I mean obviously,

1299
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:00,800
Speaker 4: like I do not believe, like objectively, I do not

1300
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:03,720
Speaker 4: believe that, like I asked for any of like what transpired,

1301
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:06,480
Speaker 4: but like I definitely could have done more to maybe

1302
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 4: like not egg the situation on.

1303
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean it, But shooting up a car

1304
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 2: is slightly extreme as well as like.

1305
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 4: Showing people's houses and stuff.

1306
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:19,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it sounds incredibly scary. And yes, and

1307
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:21,920
Speaker 2: I hope that behavior is a thing of the past

1308
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 2: and not something that continues in the group.

1309
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 5: And I can't wait to get trolled by them after this.

1310
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:30,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, thank you.

1311
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 2: And Josh, just real quick, tell us about your films

1312
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:36,400
Speaker 2: and where people can find you.

1313
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:39,240
Speaker 4: See, I'm a I'm a writer director. I made a

1314
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:41,080
Speaker 4: like a thriller movie a couple of years back called

1315
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:44,040
Speaker 4: I Trapped the Devil, which was it's not really a

1316
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:45,880
Speaker 4: horror movie. It's it's more of like a mystery movie.

1317
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 4: It's a Christmas movie. So if you want to watch

1318
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:52,040
Speaker 4: like a sort of bleak mystery movie said at Christmass like,

1319
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:54,640
Speaker 4: it's the perfect time. But you can rent it on iTunes.

1320
01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:56,760
Speaker 4: And then as far as other projects, you know, we're

1321
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:59,440
Speaker 4: working on other things, like you said at the beginning, Lola,

1322
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:01,920
Speaker 4: like you and I are working on something with some

1323
01:02:01,920 --> 01:02:04,760
Speaker 4: friends of ours and yeah, so hopefully there's more to

1324
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:05,600
Speaker 4: talk about soon.

1325
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:10,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, Josh Lobo, thank you so much for joining us.

1326
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:12,320
Speaker 5: Thank you, Josh Okay.

1327
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:16,000
Speaker 2: Megan, Yes, Lola, I'm guessing you probably would not join

1328
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:19,160
Speaker 2: this group, especially just some of the similarities to your

1329
01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 2: own childhood. But I'm wondering do you think that you

1330
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 2: would troll them if you saw a post like that?

1331
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:29,040
Speaker 6: Probably, especially in high school, I would get in some

1332
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:33,680
Speaker 6: pretty ridiculous online fights with people, and the more crazy

1333
01:02:33,680 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 6: they would act, the more I would double down. So

1334
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:38,800
Speaker 6: I could very easily see myself in this unfortunate predicament.

1335
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think I would definitely like address

1336
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:44,880
Speaker 2: the comment because that's an incredibly like terrifying, hateful comment

1337
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 2: and awful. I mean even now I would I would

1338
01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:51,600
Speaker 2: respond to that comment, but you know, then going on

1339
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:54,720
Speaker 2: all of their profiles and like, yeah, shrolling them individually,

1340
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 2: probably I would not.

1341
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:58,680
Speaker 5: You know, adult us probably would not do that part.

1342
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:01,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it is it's hard because, like you see

1343
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:05,840
Speaker 2: someone saying shit online that's like awful just to seeing

1344
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:10,520
Speaker 2: other people as human, and it's hard not to say something,

1345
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:13,400
Speaker 2: And then there is also the like, will is this

1346
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:16,840
Speaker 2: going to achieve anything? Arguing with people on the internet

1347
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:20,680
Speaker 2: like usually not? Sometimes yes, but usually when it's done

1348
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 2: in a more like conversational way as opposed to like

1349
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:25,240
Speaker 2: two people attacking each other. So it's hard to know

1350
01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 2: when to speak up and when to not and I

1351
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 2: know how to do it in the right way, and like,

1352
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:31,880
Speaker 2: is it even gonna achieve anything? I definitely like went

1353
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 2: down my rabbit holes circa twenty sixteen of like yelling

1354
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:37,640
Speaker 2: at people online, and I don't think you did anything

1355
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 2: fun though very fun, no, actually completely emotionally draining and

1356
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:44,920
Speaker 2: made me want to die. Anyway, We're just trying to

1357
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 2: figure out what the right thing is and.

1358
01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:47,960
Speaker 5: It's hard to know.

1359
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:50,560
Speaker 2: And sometimes you got a troll a cult, I guess,

1360
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:52,040
Speaker 2: but maybe don't do what Josh did.

1361
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 6: Maybe not maybe do We'll just say, well, thank you

1362
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 6: so much for joining us this week. We can't wait

1363
01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:00,280
Speaker 6: to see you again here next week. As always, remember

1364
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:02,640
Speaker 6: to follow your gut, watch out for red flags, and

1365
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:05,240
Speaker 6: never ever trust me.

1366
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 5: Bye trust me.

1367
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:14,280
Speaker 2: As produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp, and Steve Delemator.

1368
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:15,760
Speaker 1: With special thanks to Stacy para.

1369
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 5: And our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

1370
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:21,200
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,

1371
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me Cult Pod, or on TikTok at

1372
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:26,480
Speaker 1: trust Me Cult Podcast.

1373
01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:30,000
Speaker 2: I'm Oola Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

1374
01:04:29,720 --> 01:04:33,280
Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Babraham

1375
01:04:33,480 --> 01:04:34,520
Speaker 1: Hicks on Twitter.

1376
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:36,959
Speaker 5: Remember to rate and review and spread the word.