1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: today's best minds and Glenn Youngkin won't be able to 4 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: turn Virginia into Florida. We have such an interesting show 5 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:17,760 Speaker 1: for you today, the Atlantics. 6 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 2: Ron Brownstein stops. 7 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: By for a late night post election analysis to talk 8 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: DEM's big wins. Then we'll talk to Bloomberg Opinions Tim 9 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 1: O'Brien about Trump's inability to behave himself in the courtroom. 10 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: But first we have Washington Post columnist George Conway. Welcome 11 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 1: back to Fast Politics. 12 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 3: Gimme a pee, gimme a gi, me a one. 13 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: Three early morning for George Conway and I and poor Jesse. 14 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,840 Speaker 1: So yesterday, Donald Trump, or as I like to think 15 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: of him, the former guy. 16 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 3: I CALLO one one three, five, eight h nine. 17 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 2: He was in core. He was on the stand. 18 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: If that were your client, how would you feel to die? 19 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 3: I would feel relieved that he didn't, you know, commit 20 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:12,639 Speaker 3: Harry carry on the stand? 21 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 2: He kind of did that. 22 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,919 Speaker 3: Sounded like he was very very well behaved for Donald Trump. 23 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 3: He only screamed a few times at the judge and 24 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 3: ranted and raved only for a few hours, so you know, 25 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:27,559 Speaker 3: I think he was relatively well behaved because we're gonna 26 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 3: see a lot worse for him. Explain, Well, he's got 27 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 3: ninety one counts to deal with and we have a campaign, 28 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 3: and he cannot take criticism at all, and he certainly 29 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 3: can't take criticism that deep down he knows to be true. 30 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 3: He is not as smart, not as rich, now you're 31 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 3: as truthful, not as anything as he purports to be, 32 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 3: and that is causes him deep psychological distress in a 33 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 3: way that you know, all of us are sensitive to 34 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 3: certain things and we get touchy about certain things, but 35 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 3: a narcissist, the particular, an extreme related narcissist, really has 36 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 3: no ability to shake any of that off. And the 37 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 3: way they do it is by fighting back. That's why 38 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 3: you hear you see these news stories about him. He 39 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 3: wants to seek revenge and he's going to use the 40 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 3: arms of the government to do that. And those are 41 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 3: the two reasons why, I mean, the reason why he's 42 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 3: running fundamentally for president is he wants to stay out 43 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 3: of jail. But part of the big struggle when you 44 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 3: are this kind of character, this kind of evil character, 45 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 3: like a Putin or a Hitler or you know, is 46 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 3: that you believe that you must destroy or be destroyed. 47 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 4: That is his aim. 48 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,679 Speaker 3: His aim is to avoid destruction and then reak destruction 49 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 3: on everyone else. And that is why he is among others. 50 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 3: I mean, that's really the principal reason why he's so dangerous, 51 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 3: because he really could. You know, I don't think he 52 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 3: would succeed in throwing Bill Barr. I mean, if you 53 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 3: saw the Washington Post yes article yesterday where it said 54 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 3: that he was seeking he was telling his cohorts down 55 00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 3: in Laura Alago that he wants to investigate Bill Barr, 56 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 3: investigate his ex lawyer, Ty Cobb. And I'm sure I'm 57 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 3: on the this somewhere, but I didn't get mentioned because 58 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 3: it's going to be a very very long list. 59 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 2: We're going to be in Getmo together, right. 60 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 3: No, I've been making Getmo jokes for all evil. That's 61 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 3: what he wants to do, because that's just his nature. 62 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 3: I don't think he would succeed in throwing all those 63 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 3: people in. 64 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 1: Jail, I hope, which is a great comfort to me. 65 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: Let me, just as the people who would be thrown, 66 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: we're happy, right. 67 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 3: I do think he why and I think it would 68 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 3: be like these protests in Israel, butor and prior to 69 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 3: the Hamas, the protests about net and Yahoo's judicial reform. 70 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 3: I think we would see a great deal of civil 71 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 3: unrest at some of the things he would try. I 72 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 3: think the country would become essentially in government. I believe 73 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 3: that if he were reelected, had been re elected in 74 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 3: twenty twenty, I thought, and I said at the time, 75 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 3: that the country would become ungovernable. And I think it's 76 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 3: doubly so now because I think he is in a 77 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 3: much worse psychological state. And also he understands there are 78 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 3: a few guardrails left by twenty twenty, by the end 79 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 3: of twenty twenty on him, but they were still and 80 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 3: all these guys at the Justice departman who basically threatened 81 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 3: to resign on loss. There was a White House counsel. 82 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 3: There were a lot of people around him who said no, no, 83 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 3: you know, who are trying to act as a break 84 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 3: or restraint on him. They kept him from going to Capitol. 85 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 3: He'll even the Secret Service. I do not think those 86 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 3: people will be around next time. So he is, you know, 87 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 3: he's a great danger to the republic, even though he 88 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 3: has only I think, notwithstanding these polls, I think he's 89 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:25,359 Speaker 3: only got a ten or twenty percent chance of winning. 90 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:27,919 Speaker 3: It's like a ten and twenty chance of bringing polonium 91 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 3: tea for rest. 92 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 1: So right, right, a lot at stake. It's not a 93 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: normal election. It's not a choice between you know, you 94 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: may not love Nikki Haley, but you at least know 95 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 1: that she is not going to destroy the country. So 96 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: let's talk about this civil trial though for a minute, 97 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 1: because it's an interesting trial in the fact that it's 98 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 1: kind of this we're really in the penalty phase here, 99 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 1: Like the judge already ruled. 100 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 3: Yes and no. I mean, there are counts that he 101 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 3: granted summary judgment on and the issue there will be 102 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 3: the relief, but there are a bunch of other counts 103 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 3: that they have to find intention some kind of intentional fraud. 104 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 3: If he were to win on everything, he'd still be 105 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 3: out of business based upon the court's ruling thus far. 106 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,359 Speaker 3: But there are still these other counts like conspiracy to 107 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 3: conspiracy to issue a false financial statement, issuing a false 108 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 3: financial statement, conspiracy to I forget what they are, and 109 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 3: those require additional factual showings. The biggest piece of those 110 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 3: claims are that the financial statements were false, and that 111 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 3: the judge has already ruled at the end of the day, 112 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 3: because the burden of proof is not the criminal beyond 113 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 3: the reasonable doubt Perry Mason level of proof, the preponderance 114 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 3: of the events regular civil case, which means. 115 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 2: That right, it's a lower level of proof. 116 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 4: Yeah. 117 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 3: All you have to do is find it just ever 118 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 3: so slightly more likely than not defendant did something bad 119 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 3: or did whatever it is, or the plane if is 120 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 3: trying to prove so it's fifty point zero zero zero 121 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 3: zero one percent. If you find that likelihood based upon 122 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 3: the facts, even based on that substantial uncertainty, you can 123 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 3: you can hold him liable. This judge is going to 124 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 3: find that, and I think there's going to be based 125 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 3: upon what we're seeing in the press sports I haven't 126 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 3: read the transfer, there is just more than sufficient basis 127 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 3: for him to find these people were lying their asses 128 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 3: off about what they intended. And in fact, there are 129 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 3: a number of concessions apparently in the record, including by 130 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 3: Trump yesterday, and there's no way he can really deny it. 131 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 3: It's the question is did you intend for the banks 132 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 3: to rely on your financial statements? And every time you 133 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 3: sign one of these, you sign these loan papers and 134 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 3: the low paper say I understand that the banks are 135 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 3: relying on this. They pointed that out to him and 136 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 3: he conceded it. You know, he still has these bullshit 137 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 3: arguments about how every financial statement was was slapped with 138 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 3: a disclaimer saying don't believe this, or you're a. 139 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 2: Fool, session don't believe what we tell you. 140 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,359 Speaker 3: I joked yesterday on Twitter that again I'd like to 141 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 3: prepare a disclaimer that he could wear around his neck. 142 00:06:58,640 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 4: I am a liar. 143 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 3: That's not going to help him. Is a legal that. 144 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 3: I mean, this judge is going to write an opinion 145 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 3: that is going to I mean, that's the big problem too, 146 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 3: is he he doesn't have a jury there. I guess 147 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 3: for some reason, Alina Habba did not ask for a jury. 148 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 2: It's a bizarre right. 149 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, he's the finder of fact. And when you have 150 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 3: a pellet review of findings a fact, whether they be 151 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 3: by a jury or a judge, those are entitled to deference. 152 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 3: And if there is basically any evidence in the record 153 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 3: from which a reasonable try or of fact be that 154 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 3: the jury or the judge can could have made the 155 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 3: finding the finding stands, and the Pellet Division, the Pellet 156 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 3: Court cannot overturn that. And what's worse for Trump is, 157 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 3: unlike a jury, the judge gets to write his own grief. Here, 158 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 3: he's going to write an opinion and he's going to 159 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 3: cite all this evidence, and there is no way that 160 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 3: they are these factual findings are going to kill and 161 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 3: there's no going to be no way that they'll be 162 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 3: able to overturn them. That's the reason they're engaging in 163 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 3: this program to bait the judge, either to bait him 164 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 3: into doing something so extreme that he could get reversed, 165 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 3: or just that leads to tartish proceedings in in the 166 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 3: public route. But the fact is, you know, clurishing the 167 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 3: proceedings in the public realm might help him politically, but 168 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 3: it's not going to help him legally. I mean, he 169 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 3: really this goes to the reason why he's showing up 170 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 3: every day, is that this goes to his essence of 171 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 3: being a billionaire and businessman. He's out of business at 172 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 3: some point after this judgment can sfirmed. Now that may 173 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 3: take it here or too. He seems he's toast. You know, 174 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 3: he won't need do is anymore because he'll be getting free. 175 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 3: Ward Cursey of the United States Bureau of Prisons, do 176 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 3: you really. 177 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 2: Believe in your heart of hearts that Donald Trump will 178 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 2: end up in jail? 179 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 4: Yes, I have believed five years. 180 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 3: I told people, you know, in twenty eighteen and twenty nineteen. 181 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 3: I won't say who, but I told people like, this 182 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 3: man up in jail, Okay. 183 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I just feel like it seems so unlikely 184 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: that they would put him with Secret Service guys in jail. 185 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 2: But why do you think that that will be inevitable? 186 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,079 Speaker 3: Because he's guilty, and he's guilty six ways of Sunday, 187 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 3: and I think after he goes through these trials, I 188 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 3: just don't see anyway you can let him off. I 189 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 3: just don't see that's happening. And I think the fact 190 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 3: that he is Secret Service protection, I think that can 191 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,439 Speaker 3: be managed. I think they can manage that in a 192 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 3: good prison system, like the federal system has a lot 193 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 3: of facilities that it can use, and the Secret Service 194 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 3: will have less to do in to protect him because 195 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 3: it's going to be traveling around all over the place. 196 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 4: It'll be cheaper for the tax bank. 197 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 2: Right, Well, that is an argument I haven't heard before. 198 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 3: I do think it's true, Like, okay, you're guarding you know, 199 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 3: even a minimum security prison. You already got the place guarded. 200 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 3: It's like being in a secure facility to start with. 201 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 3: You know, you'd only have to protect them from the 202 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 3: people who are in the air. 203 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: Aren't you worried about the larger political reverberations of putting 204 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: someone like Donald Trump, who is a leader of a movement. 205 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 3: I'm worried about the larger political reverberations of not doing 206 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 3: That's the big danger, that's the big public dis basically 207 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 3: say that you can. You can be president, and you 208 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 3: could try to disregard the Constitution and try to stay 209 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 3: on after your term and try to basically say a 210 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 3: guy who says he wants to suspend the Constitution and 211 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 3: actually did try to do it in January of twenty 212 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 3: twenty one, to say that that man walks free, that's 213 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 3: to me, that's the death knill of. 214 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 2: Our republic, right right, No, for sure, either. 215 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 3: Way, it's you know, you have to take your medicine. 216 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 3: But the medicine I'd rather take is the one that 217 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 3: promotes the rule of law and that protects the rule 218 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 3: of law. If he gets away with the things he's 219 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 3: gotten away with. How can you put anybody in jail 220 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 3: for stealing, classify doctors for this or that. 221 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 2: If you can't, it set such a terrible example. 222 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 1: I mean, what is interesting is the way we got 223 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: here was by Trump getting away with things again and 224 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: again and again. 225 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 3: His life has been He's managed to get away with things. 226 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 3: And there's a lot of reasons why he was able 227 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 3: to do that. The fact that he has married Trump 228 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 3: really well described. If he's basically've been coddled and protected 229 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 3: by a sphere of people of enablers his entire light 230 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 3: and buy his money and buy his wealth, and by 231 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 3: the fact that he believes people and makes it not 232 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 3: worth them tangling with him. He's gotten away with that 233 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 3: his entire life. And and that's you know, soonil later, 234 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 3: that comes to an end. And I believe in karma, 235 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 3: and I think that's going to come to an end, 236 00:10:57,800 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 3: and I think he's going to end up dying in prison. 237 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 3: Set back, and I will again, it. 238 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 1: Does feel like he's really had his way with the 239 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:08,959 Speaker 1: American legal system in a way I think a lot 240 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: of us did not see coming. 241 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 3: I don't agree with that, I just I don't agree 242 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 3: with that, because I don't think when you get right 243 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 3: down to legal proceedings. 244 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 2: Right, they've just taken a long time. 245 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 3: They just take a long time. It takes a long 246 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 3: time publicated, he loses all the time. I can't think 247 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 3: the cases that he actually wins. Basically, the only thing 248 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:30,319 Speaker 3: I can think about the top of the head is 249 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 3: he got some lawsuit with the Stormy Daniels he wore. 250 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 3: You know, he lost the sixty three odd cases for 251 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:40,319 Speaker 3: the election cases. He lost two big cases of the 252 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 3: Supreme Court when he was trying to stop the congressional 253 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 3: investigation of his taxes, and when he was trying to 254 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 3: stop the Manhattan DA investigation the Grand Jurian suboenas. He 255 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 3: lost that he lost in the Supreme Court in January 256 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 3: twenty twenty one or December twenty twenty, whenever that was. 257 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,599 Speaker 3: And he's getting killed in the courts today, is just 258 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 3: getting absolutely killed. They've had enough of him. And the 259 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 3: only place he has any success and has only marginal 260 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 3: successes with this judge in Florida. But I don't think 261 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 3: at the end of the day, I think she can 262 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 3: delay the case of she's if that's what she's intending 263 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 3: to do. And she can take slapes of the government 264 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:17,599 Speaker 3: along the way. But I think at the end of 265 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 3: the day, the evidence in that case is just air tight. 266 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 3: I will see how any jury could acquit him, and 267 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 3: how he may manage to get a hung jury somehow. 268 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 4: If a maga person is seef, I do it. 269 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 2: But they'll get retried, right, That's kind of amazing. 270 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 3: That's the point. To go back to the original point 271 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 3: I made. The reason why he's running is to stop 272 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 3: all this, and constitutionally that is correct. Even though man 273 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,079 Speaker 3: doesn't deserve the protection of the Constitution because he doesn't 274 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 3: expect the constitution, I do think that he would have 275 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 3: a strong, if not air tight. I think a compelling 276 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,839 Speaker 3: argument that Article two would prevent him from being not prosecuted, 277 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 3: but incarcerated during his time in office. He's reelected, and 278 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 3: that the only course to get him out would be impeachment, 279 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 3: which we've seed doesn't really work. 280 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 1: Right. 281 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 2: No, it's true. I shouldn't laugh. 282 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 3: The framers did not foresee the right of political parties, 283 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 3: where that a political party would adhere to the whims 284 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 3: of a criminal before following the constitutional obligation side. 285 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 2: American democracy was not ready for Trump. 286 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 3: The problem is that American democracy created. There's those a 287 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 3: lot of things in hindsight that led to him just 288 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,439 Speaker 3: this anti government further the Tea Party, you know, I 289 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 3: mean the Tea Party started off okay and then went 290 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 3: off the rails. 291 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 4: Yeah. 292 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 3: I just think a lot of things been tast size 293 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 3: and ways that I didn't foresee. I mean, it's it's 294 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 3: not an illegitimate thing to think that the government overreaches. Often, 295 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 3: it is not an illegit think that the government taxes 296 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 3: people too much, that the government is too involved in 297 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 3: people's lives. And for liberals who say, oh, Eric goes again, 298 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 3: it's like, do you really want that? Kind of the 299 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 3: problem with the reason why here government is because some 300 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:56,199 Speaker 3: lunatic might end up running it. 301 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 2: Okay, Well that is true. 302 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 3: You know, the very smart liberals I talked to lot, 303 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 3: they get that I have a lot more respect for 304 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 3: where they're coming from, and they have more respect from 305 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 3: where I came from, precisely because it's like, Okay, we're 306 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 3: actually fighting the same fight in different ways. Concentration of abuse, 307 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 3: of the ability to abuse power. And I think that 308 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 3: you know, for liberals, they tend to think that the 309 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 3: private sector is the bigger danger. They're not wrong in 310 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 3: a lot of cases, but to me, it's like the 311 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 3: concentration of government power is a big danger age. 312 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 4: And we focus on the different things. 313 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 3: I focus on economics. They may focus on physical privacy, 314 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 3: even though I don't disagree with them on that, and 315 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 3: they may not disagree wholly with me on my views. 316 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 3: We just have different embassies. At the end of the day, 317 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 3: there's more that unites us than divides us. I think 318 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 3: that's the thing that we have to remember. 319 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, George Conway, thank you so much. Ron Brownstein is 320 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: a senior editor at The Atlantic. Welcome back to Fast Politics, 321 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: Ron Brownstein, Hey, busy nights. So excited to have you 322 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: to talk about these results. I can't think of anyone 323 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,479 Speaker 1: I would rather talk through this with, because. 324 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 4: You know, a lot of stuff we try. 325 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: I mean, the things that I saw that look like 326 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: good look like a good night so far for Democrats 327 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: is the fact that we can have this conversation right now, so. 328 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 5: Far, and things could change in the final hours. This 329 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 5: looks a lot like twenty twenty two. Yeah, where you 330 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:33,359 Speaker 5: have we have multiple polls showing that voters are disenchanted 331 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 5: with President Biden's performance, their sour on the economy, they 332 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 5: give Republicans lead in polls on who you think can 333 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 5: handle the economy, all of the conditions that should be 334 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 5: there for the party out of the White House to 335 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 5: be racking up victories and posting very good nights, But 336 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 5: instead the opposite, as in twenty twenty two, is happening, 337 00:15:55,440 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 5: that Republicans are underperforming what you would expect giving these 338 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 5: attitudes about, you know, the way things are going in 339 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 5: the country, And what it says is that there are 340 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 5: clearly a lot of voters, particularly in the major metros, 341 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 5: that is a thread running through all of these races who, 342 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 5: whatever they think about the way things are going in 343 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 5: the country, whatever they think about Joe Biden's performance, they 344 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 5: are still reluctant to entrust Republicans with power. And we 345 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 5: are seeing that in the Kentucky governorship where Andy Basheer 346 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 5: is winning by I think a fairly astonishingly wide margin, 347 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 5: much more than. 348 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 2: Last time, right because last time was five thousand votes. 349 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, or that people expected. The Pennsylvania State Supreme Court 350 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 5: election looks pretty one sided at the moment. It may 351 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 5: get tighter, but it may not. The Ohio ballot Initiative 352 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 5: is you know, coming in right where the polling said 353 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 5: sixty percent of the state pretty much voting to overturn 354 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 5: the six week abortion ban. And the latest indications as 355 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 5: we you know, converse here that despite this enormous effort 356 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 5: by Glenn Youngkin, Democrats are on track to maintain the 357 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 5: state Senate and possibly take the state House in Virginia. 358 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:15,479 Speaker 2: You know, millions of dominions. 359 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 5: Why the vlerating is forty percent, right, I mean, that's 360 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 5: these set of things should not be able to happen, 361 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 5: and it is I think a very significant result because 362 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 5: it says that, yes. 363 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 4: Voters aren't happy with the way things are going in 364 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 4: the country. But Democrats have. 365 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 5: Shown the ability in many key states that when they 366 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 5: can focus a campaign and a spotlight on the Republican agenda, 367 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 5: it can significantly offset those doubts about the Democratic performance. 368 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: But it's also I mean, Republicans aren't running on something right, 369 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: They're just running on sort of trump Ism, autocracy, beating 370 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 1: up trans kids. 371 00:17:57,800 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 2: I mean, when we look. 372 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 1: At that bscher, uh, the Andy Buscher election, we see 373 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 1: he ran on keeping choice, he ran on you know, 374 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: overturning the LGBTQ bans. 375 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 2: I mean he vetoed that ban. 376 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean there is a certain sent in 377 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: which like you're either being offered like dystopia or normal. 378 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 2: You're going to pick normal. 379 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 5: The you know, the general trend of our politics was 380 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 5: established before Trump, where one of the key trends was 381 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,919 Speaker 5: this geographic polarization where the Republicans getting stronger in small 382 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 5: town and rural America and Democrats really consolidating an advantage 383 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 5: in the largest, most economically productive metros everywhere, which tend 384 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 5: to be culturally liberal places on issues like abortion and 385 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:55,439 Speaker 5: LGBTQ rights. And this trend took one notch up under Trump, 386 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 5: it ratcheted up under Trump, and it has significantly ratcheted 387 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 5: up again since the Supreme Court overturned the constitutional right 388 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,640 Speaker 5: to abortion. And if you look across the country tonight, 389 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 5: and you know, there's only so many races. This is 390 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 5: not a midterm We're not examining everywhere, but whether we're 391 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 5: talking about Louisville and Lexington, or Philadelphia in Pittsburgh, Columbus, 392 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 5: Cincinnati and Cleveland, or the suburbs of Richmond and Northern Virginia, 393 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 5: which both delivered probably the decisive results in the last 394 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 5: few minutes to allow Democrats to hold the States Senate. 395 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 5: In all of these places, you are seeing the same 396 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 5: thing that even if voters are dissatisfied with the economy, 397 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 5: they are voting to block this MAGA cultural agenda and 398 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 5: democratic democratic backsliding. And that is just remarkably consistent across 399 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 5: I mean, you know, you can look at these little 400 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 5: maps that Politico or the New York Times will put up, 401 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 5: and you will that Democrats are waning, like all of 402 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 5: the counties that cast the most votes in all of 403 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 5: these states, and that is the dynamic that is allowing 404 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 5: them to survive as we started conditions that are usually 405 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 5: really bad for the. 406 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:17,880 Speaker 4: Party in the White House. 407 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 5: I mean, you know, like if you have only forty 408 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 5: percent approving of a president, his party usually does not 409 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 5: have the kind of results the Democrats are seeing tonight, 410 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 5: or even even with the loss of the House, the 411 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 5: kind of results that they posted in twenty twenty two. 412 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: I'm going to reduce something from Dave Wasserman, who is like, 413 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 1: this is his night, right, I'm looking at these numbers, 414 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: pretty evident Kentucky Republicans had a turnout enthusiasm problem today. 415 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:47,360 Speaker 2: Talk to me about that. 416 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean that that was a little you know 417 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 5: that David and I used to share a wall, you know, 418 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 5: in the back to Jason offices in the National Journal Atlantic, 419 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 5: you know, global media conglomerate. That's a little surprising, right, 420 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 5: I mean, because the Trump era Republican Party's great strength 421 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 5: has been turning out its base, and the problem has 422 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 5: been losing the softer side of their the software under 423 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 5: their coalition among independents who usually lean Republicans. We'll see 424 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 5: Republicans nominated a black attorney general in Kentucky, right, So, 425 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 5: I don't know how that affected the willingness of that 426 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 5: may have Who knows if that affected the willingness of 427 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 5: small town you know, Republicans to turn to turn out. 428 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 5: But you know, Basher, Basher is kind of an interesting 429 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 5: candidate because you know, he hasn't, as you pointed out, 430 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 5: he hasn't really uh a, you know, surrendered to the 431 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 5: right on cultural issues. He has focused as much as 432 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,640 Speaker 5: he can on economic uplift. That's certainly what Democrats are 433 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 5: trying to do in in Mississippi. And look, abortion, as 434 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 5: we talked about many times, did not work for Democrats everywhere. 435 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 5: It worked in swing states very powerfully. In twenty two 436 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 5: and apparently very powerfully again in twenty twenty three, it 437 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,159 Speaker 5: was not enough to ome yeah right, but well, in 438 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 5: Ohio when a vote directly out abortion sixty percent, you know, 439 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 5: voted to maintain abortion rights, that wasn't enough to cause 440 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,400 Speaker 5: Republican voters not to vote for Mike DeWine last year, 441 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 5: who signed the van in the first place. 442 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 4: And that was the difference, right, I mean, in the. 443 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 5: Red states like Texas, Iowa, Florida, Tennessee, Ohio that actually 444 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 5: restricted abortion, this single issue wasn't enough to cause ordinarily 445 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 5: Republican voters to cross over to Democrats who they think 446 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,400 Speaker 5: are going to open the border and you know, let 447 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 5: loose climb and go crazy in the schools. 448 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 4: But the Virginia results again and the Pennsylvania, the likely 449 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 4: Pennsylvania results, and even the results in Kentucky just continue 450 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 4: to say that there is a tremendous metro suburban resistance 451 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 4: to banning abortions specifically and more broadly to this Republican 452 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 4: cultural agenda, you know, and all of this like, you know, 453 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 4: I would not you could not argue that these kind 454 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 4: of results erase all the warning signs that are out there, 455 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 4: you know, for Leiden but they do show that when 456 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 4: there is an actual campaign and Democrats can have the 457 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 4: can can shine a light on what the Republican agenda is, 458 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 4: that it can offset many of these, you know, expressions 459 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,919 Speaker 4: of unease about the way things are going in the country. 460 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,959 Speaker 4: So like it doesn't this doesn't guarantee that Biden is 461 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 4: going to win four, but it does show you that 462 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 4: there is a pathway for him to do better, much 463 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 4: better than he's doing right now, because the comparison can 464 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:59,360 Speaker 4: be drawn more sharply, as these elections show than it is, 465 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 4: you know, in a poll a year before election. 466 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: I mean, can we also say that there's some possibilities 467 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 1: since the polls have been wrong in twenty sixteen, twenty 468 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: and twenty two and now twenty three, perhaps these polls 469 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: are just not right. 470 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 6: I mean, isn't there Well, no, look, I guess I 471 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 6: guess I'm not in that camp because here's what I think. 472 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 4: I think that polling on the. 473 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:34,640 Speaker 5: Horse racing year before the election is historically not usually valuable. 474 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 5: I also think, as I just said, that Trump's vulnerabilities 475 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 5: are somewhat suppressed now because people he's not really in 476 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 5: people's face the way he was as president. But may 477 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 5: I would say that the expressions of unease about Biden 478 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 5: are real. I mean those are those are the feeling 479 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 5: that he may be too old to do this for 480 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 5: another four years, and the belief that his agenda has 481 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 5: not made me better off. 482 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 4: Those are real problems. And you can't just inflation as 483 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 4: a way. 484 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 2: I mean, inflation is inflation. 485 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 5: Inflation is causing that, right, yeah, you know, uh the 486 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 5: uh you know. But but again, like what we're seeing 487 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 5: tonight is what we saw in twenty twenty two. Everything 488 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 5: I just said was also present in twenty twenty two. 489 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 5: That you know, people a majority disapproved of Biden. Three 490 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 5: quarters or more were negative on the economy. Most people 491 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 5: said they didn't want him to run again. And yet 492 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 5: Republicans underperformed in the House, only won it very narrowly and. 493 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: Gave the big right and Democrats really gave them those 494 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: seats by messing up I mean New York, those New 495 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 1: York five seeds should not have I mean they were 496 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: really that was just screw up after screw up. Screw up. 497 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 5: Yeah right, Well, I think I think, like the big 498 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:58,680 Speaker 5: story from tonight continues to be that whatever people think 499 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 5: about what is going on in the country. 500 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 4: There is still a critical slice of voters, overwhelmingly situated 501 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:12,199 Speaker 4: in major metros, who are rejecting the Maga era Republican 502 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 4: agenda as a threat to their rights and values. 503 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 5: That that that is like kind of the through line 504 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 5: in these you know, in these races. And again, like 505 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 5: it's no guarantee for Biden in twenty twenty four, but 506 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 5: it is a reminder that like when the choice is 507 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 5: posed as you know, as starkly as it is in 508 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 5: the campaign, you know, there there there's more to the 509 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 5: story than just people being unhappy about inflation and how 510 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 5: much things are costing. They are happy about how much 511 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 5: things costing at the grocery store, and they don't think 512 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 5: you know, their initial reaction is not, yes, Joe Biden 513 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 5: is ready to do four more years at age eighty 514 00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:01,199 Speaker 5: or eighty one. But but you see in these elections 515 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 5: the power of forcing the choice, right, I mean, that's. 516 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: So abortion as a ballot initiative in every I mean, 517 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,120 Speaker 1: if you're a Democrat, this shows that people still care 518 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:15,880 Speaker 1: about bodily autonomy. 519 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,199 Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely, and it shows that they are not you know, 520 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 5: as Cylinda Lake said to me, a Democratic poster said 521 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 5: to me last week. It's not like people are learning 522 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 5: to live with this. The status quo is unacceptable to 523 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 5: the majority. 524 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean the. 525 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 5: Bigger challenge look, yes, I mean I think you know, 526 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 5: abortion initiatives to secure abortion rights have now passed in 527 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,680 Speaker 5: every place they've been put on the ballot, and red 528 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 5: states as well as blue states, and the consistent pattern, 529 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 5: as I've written, is that they run up the score 530 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 5: in all of the biggest communities, right, I mean, that's essentially, 531 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 5: you know, we're watching this kind of cultural divide between 532 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 5: Metro and non Metro America plan although you know, in 533 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,679 Speaker 5: Ohio it's there's a lot of smaller places that are 534 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 5: voting to overturn this as well. The challenge, I mean, 535 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,719 Speaker 5: I think that the precedent is that these things are 536 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 5: going to keep passing. The challenge for Democrats is going 537 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 5: to be to convince voters that their ballots for the House, 538 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:20,679 Speaker 5: the Senate, and the presidency will also affect their you know, 539 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 5: the likelihood of their having kind of continued access to 540 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 5: abortion rights, because you know, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin in 541 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 5: particular have gone to great lengths in the last couple 542 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 5: elections to try to ensure that abortion rights remain legal 543 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 5: through the election of governors and state Supreme Court justices 544 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 5: and ballot initiatives. And the risk that unified Republican control 545 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 5: would revoke that kind of come in from above and 546 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 5: overturn that decision by banning it on some sort of 547 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 5: national basis is probably, in my mind, the last the 548 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 5: best asset that Biden has in those states against any 549 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 5: Republican nominee, but especially Trump. 550 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 2: And Democrats have held the Virginia Senate. 551 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 5: Yes, Democrats have held the Virginias and you know, look 552 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 5: they held it in the same way that I mean, 553 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 5: like we're watching the same thing unfold in state after 554 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 5: state after state, right, and that is like, you know, 555 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 5: you know, this is these are these are local elections 556 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 5: or idiosyncratic factors, but the consistent thread is that in 557 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 5: these big population centers, you know, in the suburbs of 558 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 5: Richmond and in even the outer suburbs of d C, 559 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 5: you are seeing you know, Glenn Youngkin wanted, you know, 560 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 5: he forced this race to be to pivot on whether 561 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 5: voters would accept a fifteen week abortion ban, and not 562 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 5: enough did. I mean, it's just pretty clear, especially in 563 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 5: those big population centers, and look at those numbers seventy 564 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 5: five percent or more voting for repeal of the ban 565 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 5: in Ohio, in the county centered on since and Atti, 566 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 5: Columbus and Cleveland and the surrounding suburbs of all of them, 567 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 5: including a lot of places that Donald Trump ran well, 568 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 5: are also voting against this. This is not a cultural 569 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 5: agenda outside of you know, some core and core red states, 570 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 5: although even in there, you know, whether it's Texas or Iowa, 571 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 5: the biggest places, the kind of diverse, well educated, info 572 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 5: age metros are just rejecting this agenda, even at a 573 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 5: moment where they're broadly unhappy with the economy. I mean, 574 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 5: that's was so striking about all this, By the way, 575 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 5: in the one last point, because I do have to 576 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 5: run one last point about Virginia, is that Virginia seems 577 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 5: to me to embody kind of the national set of 578 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 5: ingredients the most precisely of any of these elections. Because 579 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 5: you know, in that Washington Post George Mason University poll 580 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 5: from the other day, Republicans led by double digits, and 581 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 5: who could handle the economy and who could handle crime? 582 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 5: Youngkin's approval was fifty and Biden's is now under fifty. 583 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 4: Even though he won the state by ten points, and. 584 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 5: It did not It didn't pull them over because because 585 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 5: because voters did not want to give him the free 586 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 5: hand to ban abortion in fifteen weeks and as well 587 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 5: as by the way, the Democratic candidates didn't only run 588 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 5: an abortion, they ran on other rights. 589 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 4: They ran on book bands right and voting rights and 590 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 4: the idea. 591 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 5: You know, the way I say it, the way I 592 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 5: wrote it today again is what is allowing Democrats to 593 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 5: win these races is that there is a critical slice 594 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 5: of voters who believe that Democrats have not delivered for 595 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 5: their interests, but are still voting for them anyway because 596 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 5: they view Republicans as a threat to their rights and values. 597 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 5: And that was true in twenty two. That was the 598 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 5: big story in the big swing states, and I think 599 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 5: it is again the big story tonight. 600 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much, Thank you Ron. 601 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 4: All Right, guys, good luck. 602 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: Tim o'bri ian is the editor of Bloomberg Opinion. Welcome 603 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,800 Speaker 1: back to Fast Politics, Tim O'Brien. 604 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 4: Hey, Mike here. 605 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: We are so happy to have you. You know, you 606 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: write on a lot of stuff. You're an expert on 607 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: Trump's legal problems and Trump. I'm sorry to tell you, 608 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: but you've also been doing this a long time. Yesterday 609 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff went down. There were these insane 610 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: New York Times polls that started the day, and the 611 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: day ended with Donald Trump screaming at a federal judge. 612 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 1: And in the middle we had Joe Biden going to 613 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 1: an Amtrak station in Delaware announcing sixteen billion dollars of infrastructure, 614 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: which I would not have known had I not been 615 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: listening to c Span discuss well and Joe. 616 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 4: Biden doing the things that we want politicians to do. 617 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 4: Whether or not you agree with whether or not Amtrak 618 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 4: should get sixteen billion more dollar, it's a policy move. 619 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 4: It's about trying to purpose we do stuff for the 620 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 4: American people, as opposed to turning a man in courtroom 621 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 4: into vaudeville, which is what Trump has done it. You know, 622 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 4: I think there's a long learne you can trace from 623 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 4: the celebrification of the US presidency. If that's even a word. 624 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: It's for our purposes, it is, yeah, Yeah, begin with JFK, right, 625 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: like going directly to the people going around the party, 626 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: and there's a lot of virtues of that. 627 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 4: JFK did it with TV, and Trump has done it 628 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 4: with social but JFK was a rational, talented human being. 629 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 4: Donald Trump is an unhinged, dangerous person, but he is 630 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 4: very plugged into what triggers people's emotions, and an important 631 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 4: part of politicking is emotion. It's not policy. We want, 632 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 4: you know, that great wedded kind of thing of someone 633 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 4: who's great on policy and also really good at campaigning 634 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 4: like Obama was, I think, and whether or not you 635 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 4: agree with them, Reagan was right FDR one and Trump 636 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 4: has no interest in policy. Trump has an interest in 637 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 4: his burning the house down on the altar of his 638 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 4: own mediums every single day till there's no thing lot. 639 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. 640 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: So one of the things that Trump did, and actually 641 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 1: Judge accused him of doing this and I think it 642 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,840 Speaker 1: was very much right, was that he used this moment 643 00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: being on the witness stand to politic and his politic 644 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 1: thing is largely this idea that people are after him 645 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 1: and so he needs to get back at them. And 646 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: this is what the American people want. I understand the 647 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:31,279 Speaker 1: Republican primary base has been charmed and somehow they have 648 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: decided that Trump is our guy. But I just have 649 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 1: trouble seeing this as a message that will reverberate with 650 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:39,840 Speaker 1: swingstate voters. 651 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 4: I agree with you, Molly. I think you're right about that, 652 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 4: and I don't think the polls are capturing the meat 653 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 4: of that particular election. I think the people in each 654 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 4: party that come out in the primaries are the most 655 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 4: passionate voters, and I think the people that respond to 656 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 4: poles are the most passionate voter. So you've got the 657 00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 4: most passionate people saying, yeah, Biden bad on cross immigration 658 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,440 Speaker 4: or impulsing the ecodomy. And now we weren't Trump. But 659 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 4: I think that you know, in those six there's maybe 660 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,359 Speaker 4: seven swing states, but I think there's just six of them, 661 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 4: and I think the voters in those states are grossed 662 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,799 Speaker 4: out by Donald Trump's shredding of civic norms and his 663 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 4: underlining of institutions. And I think these courtroom dramas that 664 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,359 Speaker 4: Trump worked his straight because he you know, and he's 665 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 4: doing it particularly in this case, and he's going after 666 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,479 Speaker 4: Arthur and go around the judge in the civil's broad 667 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 4: case because he's already lost that case on legal grounds, 668 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 4: so he got nothing to lose by spoofing the whole thing. 669 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 4: He got everything to gain because it does get traction 670 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:39,799 Speaker 4: with his core folks but I think I think when 671 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,239 Speaker 4: push comes to shove and those swing states, you're going 672 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 4: to see it. I think a different response than some 673 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 4: of the polls may be capturing. But I qualified, I 674 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 4: would like to be wrong, right, And I. 675 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 1: Mean, it is one of the things when you look 676 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:53,440 Speaker 1: at those polls and if you were to do a 677 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,320 Speaker 1: deep dive, and again I sort of take them with 678 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,800 Speaker 1: the grain of salt. But they say that Biden seems 679 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,320 Speaker 1: older than Trump, even though Biden is two and a 680 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,439 Speaker 1: half years older than Trump, so or three years older 681 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,439 Speaker 1: than Trump. But you could see that there have been 682 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,239 Speaker 1: so many pieces written both in the right wing media 683 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: and in the mainstream media, right like the but her 684 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 1: email's kind of phenomenon when it comes to his age, 685 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: and there have been hundreds of pieces written about like 686 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: is Joe Biden too old? And there have been almost 687 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 1: no muss written about is Donald Trump too old? 688 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,839 Speaker 4: Well, I think because Joe Biden has the gummiest nonlinear 689 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 4: way of speaking. He seems so overtly adult in the 690 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,279 Speaker 4: way that he speaks, and Trump is like always on 691 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,160 Speaker 4: red ball. You know, it's like it's amazing at this 692 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,920 Speaker 4: guy who eats bird steak and fried food and doesn't exercise. 693 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,360 Speaker 4: Is still this force of nature, but that's starting, I 694 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,319 Speaker 4: think to change as well. You know, we've had this 695 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 4: series of events where he doesn't know what state he's in, 696 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,439 Speaker 4: and he doesn't know who he's campaigned again, and he's 697 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 4: mashing his sentences, and there's been some coverage of that. 698 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:58,319 Speaker 4: There's reason to worry about acuity because of the way 699 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 4: he speaks publicly. But again, and I would qualify that 700 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,439 Speaker 4: by saying, I think he's surrounded himself the first rate team, 701 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,759 Speaker 4: and they've executed on a number of things very well, 702 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 4: and running on. Remember when Obama gave him that like 703 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:11,839 Speaker 4: what was meant to be to be a brief Rose 704 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 4: Garden speech when he said he wouldn't run against Hillary, right, 705 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 4: but he was still Obama's vice president, and it was 706 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:19,919 Speaker 4: supposed to be like an afternoon ebop of like four 707 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 4: to five minutes, and twenty five minutes later he was 708 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 4: going on and on about his vision to the American 709 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 4: dream and everything, and he's never been able to help himself. 710 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 4: But I do think he sounded gummier and a little 711 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,760 Speaker 4: more aduled now than getting the packs. 712 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: It's funny, though, because I was listening to his speech 713 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:41,400 Speaker 1: in Delaware at that Amtrak station or wherever it was, 714 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:45,560 Speaker 1: and he actually he sounded pretty good. And I mean, again, 715 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: it's reading a teleprompter, but I'm listening at one and 716 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 1: a half as again, he's not running against the almighty right, 717 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 1: He's running against Trump. And I think that was something 718 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,600 Speaker 1: I was thinking a lot about with this primary contest, 719 00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,799 Speaker 1: which is theoretically still going, is that if you had 720 00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 1: a Joe Biden running against someone like a Ron De 721 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: Santis who's forty five years old, that's a different story. 722 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 2: But you don't. 723 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:09,439 Speaker 4: I think that's right. I think he's a little more 724 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 4: fuzzy than he was in twenty twenty. But I think 725 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,480 Speaker 4: the reasons that people voted for him in twenty He 726 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 4: wasn't an ideal candidate in twenty twenty for a lot 727 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,719 Speaker 4: of people, but he was somebody who had spent his 728 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,880 Speaker 4: entire life in public service. He is not militia. He 729 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,360 Speaker 4: wants good things for people, and he's not a maniac 730 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 4: at the steering wheel who's going to drive the car 731 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 4: off the exit, wrap down into the canyon and blow 732 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 4: the car up with you in the backseat. And Trump 733 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,240 Speaker 4: is all those other things. He needs such a wild 734 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:40,480 Speaker 4: card of unknown proportion that age alone and coherency allows 735 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,799 Speaker 4: aren't to me the reasons you vote for against that guy. 736 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:44,400 Speaker 2: True. 737 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:49,440 Speaker 1: Now we have in the House a House speaker, Mike Johnson. 738 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:54,880 Speaker 1: He was in leadership sort of. He's been in Congress 739 00:38:54,880 --> 00:39:01,000 Speaker 1: since twenty sixteen, so not very long. He is very religious. 740 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 1: His first sort of shot across the bow was this 741 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:10,880 Speaker 1: Israel funding emergency aid package with of sets that included 742 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,000 Speaker 1: cutting the irs and growing the deficit. What do you think, 743 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 1: where does this go? Is this too crazy? I mean 744 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:19,840 Speaker 1: still has a one person motion to vacate. 745 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,120 Speaker 4: Also, remember he supported the big line that the twenty 746 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 4: twenty election unfairly stolen. To me, what you need signifies 747 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:28,919 Speaker 4: in a big way is that trump Ism is now 748 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,120 Speaker 4: fully rooted beyond Donald Trump. The fact that the entire 749 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,720 Speaker 4: party came behind Johnson because they thought it was better 750 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:40,200 Speaker 4: to get an extraordinarily out there person at the helm 751 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 4: for a sign of fake unity. I guess at the 752 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,640 Speaker 4: expense of actually trying to steer the party away from 753 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:52,240 Speaker 4: the worst forms of trump Ism, which is irrationality, anti institutional, timetra, 754 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,880 Speaker 4: factual counter expertise. And I think he's just an example 755 00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:58,960 Speaker 4: of the degree to which trump Ism. 756 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:03,640 Speaker 7: Now has institutional half beyond Trump themselves, and that there 757 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:09,279 Speaker 7: aren't moderate Republicans or traditional Republicans who are willing to 758 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,520 Speaker 7: band together with Democrats say to just steer things in 759 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:14,120 Speaker 7: a new direction. 760 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,200 Speaker 4: They just can't stomach that. I think they believe their 761 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,760 Speaker 4: own voters won't forgive them for collaborating with the dark side, 762 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 4: you know, I eed, the Democrat And that may be true. 763 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,960 Speaker 1: Actually, it's so interesting because one of the problems Republicans 764 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,840 Speaker 1: have in the House is that trump Ism does not 765 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:34,920 Speaker 1: make allowances for the district you got elected in. For example, 766 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,800 Speaker 1: someone like Mike Lawler, who is sitting in a Biden 767 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:42,240 Speaker 1: plus three district running for re election against Mondir Jones, 768 00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 1: who happens to be a good friend of mine, but 769 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,719 Speaker 1: also more importantly a Democrat and what should be a 770 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:53,840 Speaker 1: Democratic seat theoretically, anyway, he had to vote for Mike Johnson. 771 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 1: That in itself is sort of disqualifying, I would think. 772 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 2: I mean, he seems like such is zalot. 773 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,359 Speaker 4: Well, I think he is a zealot. What shade of 774 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:07,640 Speaker 4: difference is he from some of the other loonies who 775 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,359 Speaker 4: threw their hats into the ring. Jim Jordan, like, where 776 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 4: where on the spectrum do Johnson and Jordan depart? And 777 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,120 Speaker 4: everyone felt right out of the gates that Jim Jordan 778 00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:18,239 Speaker 4: was in no way yeah, that this was a guy 779 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,320 Speaker 4: who had never passed legislation, that he was a complete 780 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,400 Speaker 4: flame thrower, and that, like many others in his party, 781 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,720 Speaker 4: had made a name for himself by you know, pandering 782 00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:29,000 Speaker 4: to Fox and social media and not doing things for 783 00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:32,160 Speaker 4: his constituent. And then after all the infighting, everyone just 784 00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 4: throws them the tonnel and says yes Johnson, and I 785 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:37,319 Speaker 4: think what you just cited is the perfect kind of 786 00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:42,280 Speaker 4: granular example of how that affects people in more moderate 787 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,880 Speaker 4: district The party's going to have to wrestle with this, right, Like, 788 00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:49,479 Speaker 4: if the Republican Party believes that Trump is makes sense 789 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,160 Speaker 4: for that beyond Trump himself, then we're going to wrestle 790 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,640 Speaker 4: with this as a country for a much longer time 791 00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,239 Speaker 4: regards what happens to Trump in this next selection. I 792 00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,320 Speaker 4: think if Trump gets re elected, it's going to get 793 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 4: Trump is some greater traction and tether within that party 794 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,120 Speaker 4: and in the American light than it has now. I 795 00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,799 Speaker 4: think if he doesn't, there will still be people who 796 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,120 Speaker 4: want to come across any sake Trump, you know, whether 797 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,880 Speaker 4: that's Roder Santis or Mike Chahson. 798 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 1: That is the problem we saw in the Republican primary, 799 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,040 Speaker 1: which theoretically is still going on, and there's a debate 800 00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,920 Speaker 1: on the day that this podcast publishes Wednesday night, but 801 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 1: no one will watch it because the front runner is 802 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,759 Speaker 1: not in it. There was no one who offered of 803 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,440 Speaker 1: all the people who are running, the real people who 804 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,680 Speaker 1: are running, you know, Chris Christy and Asa Hutchinson weren't really. 805 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:39,799 Speaker 1: I mean maybe Asa thought he was running, but Chris 806 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,319 Speaker 1: Christie knew he was never going to get the nomination, right, 807 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 1: I mean, there's no way, no. 808 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:45,560 Speaker 4: I think he thought he was there to just say 809 00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:47,360 Speaker 4: either one will say the thing about Trump that no 810 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:48,719 Speaker 4: one else will, right, But. 811 00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:52,120 Speaker 1: Of course so undermined by the fact that he had 812 00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,520 Speaker 1: gotten COVID from Trump, he worked in the Trump administration. 813 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,560 Speaker 1: It does seem to me that nobody who was a 814 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,560 Speaker 1: front runner Ronda santa just didn't have a bold vision. 815 00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:05,400 Speaker 1: He just had deluded Trumpism without the charisma quote unquote. 816 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:09,760 Speaker 4: And actually the failure of the Santas's national candidacy shows 817 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,719 Speaker 4: do you just can't take this buy anti woke agenda 818 00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:18,000 Speaker 4: that targets corporate America and libraries and school and people 819 00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,560 Speaker 4: of color and basically say that if you're interested in 820 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,920 Speaker 4: the yesterday's people of color and he actually think libraation 821 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,279 Speaker 4: of different kinds of books on the shelf, that means 822 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,200 Speaker 4: you're kind of a woke maniac and a threat to America. 823 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,799 Speaker 4: That didn't sell nationally, and that's a healthy that's a 824 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:33,759 Speaker 4: good thing. And I think that comes back to our 825 00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:35,959 Speaker 4: discussion about where the polls are right now and Trump 826 00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:37,960 Speaker 4: and what might happen to the vote. You know, Ron 827 00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:41,440 Speaker 4: Desantist was expected to come out on fire in this 828 00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,080 Speaker 4: primary season, and part of it is that he's a 829 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:48,319 Speaker 4: weird guy himself. He's not a good campaign right. But 830 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,040 Speaker 4: also I can't just think that that like, you know, 831 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:54,719 Speaker 4: woke agenda garbage didn't sell. You know, Nikki Hayley is 832 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,040 Speaker 4: really interested in me in this context. I think she 833 00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:59,759 Speaker 4: wants to be serious about policy. I think she does 834 00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,440 Speaker 4: a lot he bakes her up policy, but she is 835 00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:06,040 Speaker 4: not an irrational plank thrower like some of the others. 836 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:07,880 Speaker 4: You know, she has now started to break out of 837 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:09,719 Speaker 4: the pack a little bit. I think, you know, in 838 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,840 Speaker 4: a field of also ran. He's running better than the others, 839 00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:14,520 Speaker 4: but she's still and also ran herself. 840 00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:18,640 Speaker 1: It does seem to me that Nikki Haley, which she 841 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:23,000 Speaker 1: is operating in North one, which many of those Republican 842 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,480 Speaker 1: candidates are not. So what I think is interesting is like, 843 00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:30,560 Speaker 1: if you look back on the twenty twenty election, the 844 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,880 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen in Democratic primary field, there was a moment 845 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,040 Speaker 1: when Democrats said, Okay, Biden is the guy. You may 846 00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:39,719 Speaker 1: not love him, but we think he's got the best shot. 847 00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,520 Speaker 1: And people sort of started to get around Biden and 848 00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:46,160 Speaker 1: they dropped out, even if they weren't thrilled about it, 849 00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:49,160 Speaker 1: they dropped out because they said defeating Trump is more important. 850 00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:51,279 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it was really a very sort 851 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,200 Speaker 1: of quick thing where people kind of got in line 852 00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,120 Speaker 1: behind the person they thought was most likely to be 853 00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:58,960 Speaker 1: able to win. And you know, he picked up a 854 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,760 Speaker 1: lot of progressive and he got Bernie involved in the budget. 855 00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,279 Speaker 1: I mean, he did the things he needed to do 856 00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,840 Speaker 1: to pay back those choices of people made from here's 857 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,759 Speaker 1: the question, So why were Republicans. I mean, if Republicans 858 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,200 Speaker 1: had all dropped out and said Nikki Haley is our 859 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:17,560 Speaker 1: answer to Trump is and we are going to support her. 860 00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:19,440 Speaker 2: She would have had a shot. 861 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,960 Speaker 4: We're in an age of remarkable political powered it. There 862 00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:25,560 Speaker 4: are very few people in the GOP who are just 863 00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:27,400 Speaker 4: willing to say we should do this thing or the 864 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,399 Speaker 4: right thing, and Trump is a plague and we need 865 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,560 Speaker 4: to get rid of the plague if we're going to 866 00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,719 Speaker 4: be a purposeful party. Like Mitt Romney says that Mitt 867 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,480 Speaker 4: Romney's leaving the Senate, other people in the GOP said 868 00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,479 Speaker 4: that have like they been on their way out the door, 869 00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:44,239 Speaker 4: and some of the ones who still said it in 870 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,600 Speaker 4: office turned around on and die when the consequences saying 871 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,839 Speaker 4: that kind of stuff threatened their careers. Kevin McCarthy Mitch 872 00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:55,279 Speaker 4: McConnell are two examples. Are after January six, thing, you know, 873 00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,000 Speaker 4: we will drive Trumps for what it was and incendiary 874 00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:01,680 Speaker 4: and dangerous dema god within week, that's it out. Maybe 875 00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:06,120 Speaker 4: not because they're terrified of the emotive powering as with 876 00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:09,760 Speaker 4: his base combined with the media presence, and how quickly 877 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,279 Speaker 4: that can shred their career. In the euro room right 878 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:17,319 Speaker 4: now where people are baked in in media cauldrons, and 879 00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:20,480 Speaker 4: you wind up with lunatics like Marjorie Taylor Green and 880 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:21,480 Speaker 4: Lauren Bobert. 881 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, and that's where we are right now. 882 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,680 Speaker 1: Tim O'Brien, thank you so much for joining us from Singapore. 883 00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,560 Speaker 4: It is always fun being our ound. Thank you. Problem lable. 884 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:39,719 Speaker 8: Moment Jesse Canon, Molly Jong Fast. Let's count up some 885 00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:44,600 Speaker 8: wins tonight. Glenn Youngkin, He's wanted to have a big 886 00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:48,040 Speaker 8: win tonight. He did not get it at all. What 887 00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:48,839 Speaker 8: else did you see? 888 00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:54,360 Speaker 1: Andy Bscher has gotten reelected, maybe by a larger margin 889 00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:59,240 Speaker 1: than he did in his first term. We also saw 890 00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:07,359 Speaker 1: Ohio the ballot initiative codifying row past sixty plus percent. Well, 891 00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,520 Speaker 1: where we're really seeing some fuckeray is in the great 892 00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:14,040 Speaker 1: state of Mississippi. And this is how you know things 893 00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:19,120 Speaker 1: are not going well. At eight fifteen pm, Brandon Presley says, 894 00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,000 Speaker 1: if you're in line, stay in line. 895 00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:22,880 Speaker 2: You have a right to cast your ballot. 896 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,640 Speaker 1: Something went wrong in the state of Mississippi, and that 897 00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:31,960 Speaker 1: is our moment of fuckerray. That's it for this episode 898 00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:35,600 Speaker 1: of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday 899 00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,360 Speaker 1: to hear the best minds in politics makes sense of 900 00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,080 Speaker 1: all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, please 901 00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:44,680 Speaker 1: send it to a friend and keep the conversation going. 902 00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:46,720 Speaker 1: And again thanks for listening.