1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:01,599
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

2
00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:05,200
Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

3
00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:07,840
Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for

4
00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:08,720
Speaker 2: the future of the show.

5
00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:10,760
Speaker 1: This is the only place where you can find honest

6
00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,280
Speaker 1: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does

7
00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:14,680
Speaker 1: not exist anywhere else.

8
00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,080
Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please

9
00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,599
Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and

10
00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,800
Speaker 2: you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free,

11
00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,600
Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

12
00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:27,560
Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent

13
00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:29,920
Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints

14
00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:36,400
Speaker 1: dot com. Turning now to my hometown, Brian, Texas, literally

15
00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:38,560
Speaker 1: where I was born, but for our purposes let's put

16
00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:40,880
Speaker 1: this up here on the screen. It is the scene

17
00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,200
Speaker 1: of a true mystery where Glaine Maxwell is currently being

18
00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,479
Speaker 1: kept in a federal prison camp despite Bureau of Prisons

19
00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:51,120
Speaker 1: regulations that say sex offenders shouldn't be at minimum security prisons.

20
00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,240
Speaker 1: And in this investigation from The Wall Street Journal, they

21
00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:58,040
Speaker 1: describe lockdowns in a mysterious meeting a quiet Texas prison

22
00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,480
Speaker 1: adapts to life with Glaine Maxwell, and they say that

23
00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:05,440
Speaker 1: some two months ago. In mid August, hundreds of inmates

24
00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,399
Speaker 1: at a minimum security prison in Brian were locked down

25
00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,880
Speaker 1: during their usual time for strolling the grassy campus and

26
00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:16,000
Speaker 1: visiting with family and friends. All but one, Gallaine Maxwell,

27
00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:20,840
Speaker 1: while her fellows inmates were confined to their dormitories after breakfast.

28
00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:25,240
Speaker 1: Maxwell Maxwell met with several visitors in the Federal Prison

29
00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:29,040
Speaker 1: Camp Chapel. Less than three weeks earlier, the Justice Department

30
00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,000
Speaker 1: had moved her to the Federal Prison Camp Brian from

31
00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:36,360
Speaker 1: that higher security facility in Tallahassee. That interview followed that

32
00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,640
Speaker 1: transfer was followed with an interview with the Justice Department

33
00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,000
Speaker 1: senior official Todd Blanche during that whole transcript that they

34
00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,800
Speaker 1: released from the Department of Justice, where we learned absolutely

35
00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,600
Speaker 1: nothing and she actually told multiple verifiable falsehoods. They say

36
00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:53,280
Speaker 1: her unexpected arrival has upset the camps usually relaxed atmosphere,

37
00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,960
Speaker 1: leading to more frequent lockdowns. The addition of armed guards,

38
00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,559
Speaker 1: current and former inmates set in interviews that she appeared

39
00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:04,320
Speaker 1: to receive quote unusually favorable treatment at times, sparking resentment

40
00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,800
Speaker 1: and other inmates. Some prisons prisoners heard that the lockdown

41
00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:13,200
Speaker 1: was needed to accommodate important visitors, including some including her lawyers.

42
00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:17,600
Speaker 1: But what other important visitors were there? And you know,

43
00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:21,160
Speaker 1: one inmate recalled seeing her return to the dormitory that

44
00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:23,680
Speaker 1: day with a smile on her face. When they asked

45
00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:25,640
Speaker 1: her about the meeting, she said it went really well,

46
00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:30,480
Speaker 1: but shared no other information. So what was so important

47
00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,000
Speaker 1: to lock down the entire prison so that she could

48
00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,600
Speaker 1: have a meeting in club? All right, this is club fed.

49
00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:39,960
Speaker 1: They're supposed to be able to just do whatever they want.

50
00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:44,040
Speaker 1: Lockdowns are apparently very rare in these facilities because people

51
00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,160
Speaker 1: aren't stabbing and killing each other. Those people are over

52
00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,680
Speaker 1: at maximum security prison. So what's going on, Well, you

53
00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:51,920
Speaker 1: get a whole lockdown. She has this meeting with an

54
00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,160
Speaker 1: important figure, she's got a smile on her face. This

55
00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,560
Speaker 1: is around the same time of the interview. What's happening. Yeah,

56
00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,200
Speaker 1: we don't know, We don't know anything her.

57
00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,840
Speaker 2: This is someone who should not be in this particular

58
00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,519
Speaker 2: prison to begin with. And there's been upset among the

59
00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,640
Speaker 2: other inmates there and other sex offenders around the country

60
00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,200
Speaker 2: who are like, hey, we aren't supposed to get these perks.

61
00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:18,280
Speaker 2: So just her being in that facility is already preferential treatment.

62
00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:22,520
Speaker 2: Then what this article also documents is that she's allowed

63
00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:24,720
Speaker 2: to go and shower by herself. After all, then she's

64
00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,200
Speaker 2: got her own room, whereas most of the inmates.

65
00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:27,320
Speaker 3: Have to share.

66
00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,480
Speaker 2: She gets, you know, all sorts of special perks. They've

67
00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:36,840
Speaker 2: stationed additional officers around the facility. She's gotten special treatment.

68
00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:39,200
Speaker 4: Why why?

69
00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:41,440
Speaker 2: And then you've got this meeting where you know, they

70
00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,040
Speaker 2: have locked down the entire facility, so none of the

71
00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,400
Speaker 2: other inmates who normally during that time would be able

72
00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:48,760
Speaker 2: to walk around the grounds. This was also the time

73
00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:50,760
Speaker 2: when they can normally have visitors and visit with family

74
00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,840
Speaker 2: and friends. That all stops so that Glaine can have

75
00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:56,240
Speaker 2: her special little meeting, Like, what the hell is going

76
00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,400
Speaker 2: on here? They also mentioned that there's been an absolute

77
00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:03,760
Speaker 2: ban on any of the other prisoners talking to the press,

78
00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,280
Speaker 2: and there have been punishments meted out because of them

79
00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,560
Speaker 2: talking to reporters. They've been transferred. You know, it's considered

80
00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,080
Speaker 2: a big perk to be at this facility. So there

81
00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:15,880
Speaker 2: was one instance that they documented where this individual talked

82
00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,480
Speaker 2: to the press and then they were moved out of

83
00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:22,200
Speaker 2: this facility to a higher security prison. So, you know,

84
00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,880
Speaker 2: as a consequence, it appears as punishment for daring to

85
00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:28,560
Speaker 2: speak to the press about Galaine's treatment and what life

86
00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,160
Speaker 2: is like on the inside. There was also another incident

87
00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:35,200
Speaker 2: that they mentioned here which was sort of sketchy, where

88
00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:39,640
Speaker 2: there were gun shots right near the facility, and again,

89
00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:41,680
Speaker 2: you know, they came in the middle of the night,

90
00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,440
Speaker 2: and you know, they secured Glaine first and foremost, and

91
00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,279
Speaker 2: then what the official story was was, oh, this was

92
00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,599
Speaker 2: some sort of shots fired, like away from the facility,

93
00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:53,720
Speaker 2: like in the direction away from the facility, had some

94
00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,039
Speaker 2: sort of gang activity. There were no injuries reported, and

95
00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,760
Speaker 2: inmates were very skeptical of that story that the official

96
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,760
Speaker 2: or it was actually what happened there. So just really

97
00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:07,400
Speaker 2: insightful about the way she's getting all of this incredible,

98
00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:12,320
Speaker 2: incredible preferential treatment. Again, why this is a convicted sex offender,

99
00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:14,800
Speaker 2: Why is she getting all the special treatment? What is

100
00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,040
Speaker 2: going on there? Why does the government want to coddle

101
00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,119
Speaker 2: this lady. Great question that you know, I think people

102
00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,760
Speaker 2: can can ponder. And then the specifics of this secret

103
00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:25,359
Speaker 2: meeting and whatever the hell.

104
00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,559
Speaker 1: Went down there, nobody knows. That's all. Like, as you said,

105
00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,600
Speaker 1: there's some very sketchy stuff they have. She has special protection.

106
00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:35,920
Speaker 1: She apparently is you know, guests being ordered to lock

107
00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:40,240
Speaker 1: down returning to their bunks. She gets treatment extra security.

108
00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:43,680
Speaker 1: You have people who in the facility who spoke to

109
00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,719
Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal reporters getting transferred within an hour of

110
00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,240
Speaker 1: the phone call, a single hour of phone call to

111
00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:50,920
Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal, and they got transferred to a

112
00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,080
Speaker 1: higher security facility for what for talking to a reporter

113
00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,640
Speaker 1: about the special treatment that Gallene maxwell. So they are

114
00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:01,960
Speaker 1: going to extraordinary links right now to make her life comfortable,

115
00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,440
Speaker 1: to get her everything that she needs. She gets to

116
00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:06,719
Speaker 1: pick and choose who her you know, the people in

117
00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:08,599
Speaker 1: her room are. I mean, this is not normal for

118
00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,040
Speaker 1: anybody who's in one of these prisons, even though it's

119
00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,760
Speaker 1: club fed like it's still prison or it's supposed to be.

120
00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:16,640
Speaker 1: And man, this is as good as it gets. At

121
00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,480
Speaker 1: the same time, we've got CBS News out with a

122
00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,680
Speaker 1: new Honestly, I want to give them credit. They've been

123
00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,280
Speaker 1: late to it, but give them credit. They showed up

124
00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:29,000
Speaker 1: big time on the suicide investigation of Epstein's cell. I

125
00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:30,760
Speaker 1: know you guys talked about it a little bit, but

126
00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:34,120
Speaker 1: they talked specifically about how the crime scene was not preserved.

127
00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,719
Speaker 1: There was no proper investigation into this in the way

128
00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,919
Speaker 1: that a murder or suicide investigation should be conducted. So

129
00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,400
Speaker 1: here's Scott McFarlane. He's a journalist over there. Let's take

130
00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:43,760
Speaker 1: a listen.

131
00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,680
Speaker 5: CBS News has spent years investigating what happened in that

132
00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,279
Speaker 5: cell where Epstein died in New York in twenty nineteen,

133
00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:55,599
Speaker 5: and a series of ninety photos from the scene obtained

134
00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,719
Speaker 5: by sixty Minutes and CBS News do raise questions about

135
00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,200
Speaker 5: the initial handling of the scene and the initial wave

136
00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:06,320
Speaker 5: of the response. The photos show at least they indicate

137
00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,640
Speaker 5: items having been moved around. Some of the items from

138
00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:13,480
Speaker 5: the cell, the mattress Jeffrey Epstein's body had been moved

139
00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:18,240
Speaker 5: before FBI investigators were able to respond. A former NYPD detective,

140
00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:22,480
Speaker 5: a private investigator who spoke with CBS News says that

141
00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,800
Speaker 5: does complicate things that it appears this was handled as

142
00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:29,680
Speaker 5: if it were a suicide scene and not necessarily a

143
00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:35,120
Speaker 5: possible crime scene or murder scene. Also noted lack of

144
00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:40,240
Speaker 5: evidence markers in the photos. The former NYPD detective said,

145
00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,600
Speaker 5: not the clumsiness, but the lack of thoroughness with the

146
00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:48,400
Speaker 5: photo taking itself is an issue that there seems to

147
00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:54,080
Speaker 5: be a failure to follow some basic or traditional forensic

148
00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:59,320
Speaker 5: tests and exams. All of that can complicate an investigation

149
00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,280
Speaker 5: and questions. You know, our investigation does not contradict the

150
00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:07,640
Speaker 5: official determination of suicide, but it does seem that there

151
00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,360
Speaker 5: were some insufficiencies through the process. And all of that

152
00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,880
Speaker 5: means that now we are six years later, six years

153
00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,560
Speaker 5: after the fact, it's going to add potential fuel as

154
00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:22,800
Speaker 5: there's more considerations of broadening the investigation of Epstein case files,

155
00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,200
Speaker 5: releasing more documents, and as Maxwell is poised to sit

156
00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,600
Speaker 5: down with congressional investigators soon.

157
00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,280
Speaker 1: Props of Scott did a good job with that report.

158
00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,160
Speaker 1: They continue not to drop it. And look, there's still

159
00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,200
Speaker 1: a lot more out there, and I know it's frustrating. Drip, drip, drip,

160
00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,480
Speaker 1: but I remain hopeful though we'll get there eventually. Let's

161
00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:41,400
Speaker 1: get to Kamala, shall we?

162
00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:47,439
Speaker 2: Failed presidential candidate Kamala Harris has been on her book

163
00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:49,920
Speaker 2: tour and we got a couple of I guess we'll

164
00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,720
Speaker 2: call them highlights for you. She had a guest appearance

165
00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:56,120
Speaker 2: from Hillary Clinton, also took some protesters on Let's go

166
00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:56,920
Speaker 2: Ahead and take a lism.

167
00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,680
Speaker 6: You debated him once, he wouldn't debate you again.

168
00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,760
Speaker 1: We beat him four times. Do you think we're the

169
00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,000
Speaker 1: reason he is so unhinged today?

170
00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:10,080
Speaker 7: Oh?

171
00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,360
Speaker 6: They basically say to me, we didn't tell you, but

172
00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:19,760
Speaker 6: she's been talking about people eating cats and dogs. And

173
00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:24,200
Speaker 6: I was like what, And they said, we think we

174
00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:27,880
Speaker 6: need to tell you because his propensity is to say

175
00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:33,520
Speaker 6: the last thing he heard. And sure enough, on the

176
00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:34,960
Speaker 6: debate stage he said it.

177
00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:43,080
Speaker 8: Your You know what, I am not president of the

178
00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:48,400
Speaker 8: United States.

179
00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:50,520
Speaker 1: I'm not president.

180
00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,200
Speaker 6: And if you want to talk about legacy, let's talk

181
00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,320
Speaker 6: about the legacy of mass importation.

182
00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:02,839
Speaker 1: People.

183
00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:11,800
Speaker 2: Nasty portations, and people not voting. I mean, there's I

184
00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,520
Speaker 2: guess we'll start with Hillary. You know, the cope of

185
00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:16,360
Speaker 2: we beat him four times in a bay. Well, dud

186
00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,599
Speaker 2: did such a great job. Why why did not the president.

187
00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:23,080
Speaker 1: Seeing these two ladies and who were able to apparently

188
00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,319
Speaker 1: lose to Trump? Yeah, I don't know. I'm curious for

189
00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:29,880
Speaker 1: your I mean, this is a crystallizing things.

190
00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,120
Speaker 2: I don't know why. So her response there, she's got

191
00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:36,040
Speaker 2: two parts of her response. Number one, she says, well,

192
00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,880
Speaker 2: I'm not president, go talk to the guy who is

193
00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:43,280
Speaker 2: as if there hasn't been protests of the Trump administration

194
00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:47,719
Speaker 2: for their progenocide policy. I mean, he was confronted by

195
00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,160
Speaker 2: protesters just down the street here when he was eating

196
00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,280
Speaker 2: dinner actually in a pretty pretty wild failure of the

197
00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,720
Speaker 2: Secret Service, frankly, and how close these protesters protesters were

198
00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,800
Speaker 2: able to get. But there's this mythology that as soon

199
00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,000
Speaker 2: as Trump came into offer, people stop caring about Palestine,

200
00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:04,960
Speaker 2: and that's just insane. I mean, I will say I

201
00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,280
Speaker 2: think for a variety of reasons, the protests were not

202
00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,240
Speaker 2: as heightened as they were, you know, while she and

203
00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:13,640
Speaker 2: Biden were in office. I think number one, because there

204
00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:15,439
Speaker 2: was a sense like these are people that we may

205
00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,679
Speaker 2: be able to actually influence, were part of their theoretical coalition.

206
00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,120
Speaker 2: Number Two, you have a level of fatigue. And number three,

207
00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,800
Speaker 2: this government has been very authoritarian and cracking down on

208
00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,439
Speaker 2: protesters and increasing the cost of actually going out there

209
00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,720
Speaker 2: and exercising your First Amendment rights. So that's number one,

210
00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,240
Speaker 2: this fiction and this lie and this insinuation that low

211
00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,440
Speaker 2: key people, if you were pro Palestine, you actually wanted

212
00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,600
Speaker 2: Donald Trump to win, and then you're happy with the

213
00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:44,000
Speaker 2: mass deportations which she name checks here, you know that

214
00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:47,439
Speaker 2: she's like blaming them for number like the other piece

215
00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,679
Speaker 2: here that just of course discuss me and drives me absolutely.

216
00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:55,760
Speaker 2: Baddy is blaming the voters who didn't vote for her,

217
00:11:56,120 --> 00:12:00,560
Speaker 2: who had and those specifically who had a moral objection

218
00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:05,079
Speaker 2: and a red line around a literal genocide and could

219
00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:09,720
Speaker 2: not bring themselves to vote for someone who was actively

220
00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,040
Speaker 2: supporting and complicit in and refused to separate herself from

221
00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:17,599
Speaker 2: even like this in the smallest level from the execution

222
00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:22,200
Speaker 2: of that genocide. She's laming them rather than taking any

223
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:27,040
Speaker 2: responsibility for the active choices she herself made, including I

224
00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,120
Speaker 2: mean just there were such small things that people were

225
00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:33,439
Speaker 2: asking for, just to let someone who's Palestinian Americans speak

226
00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:35,960
Speaker 2: at the DNC, even that was a bridge too far.

227
00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:40,160
Speaker 2: A glaring problem in her campaign, very clear from the beginning,

228
00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,880
Speaker 2: was Joe Biden's unpopular how are you going to separate yourself?

229
00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,160
Speaker 2: This was the obvious place to do it, and she

230
00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:50,280
Speaker 2: never ever did it. So for her, Hillary did her

231
00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,640
Speaker 2: own version of this after she lost, Like it's always

232
00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:55,800
Speaker 2: someone else's fault, It's always the voter's fault.

233
00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:57,280
Speaker 4: The voters are too stupid or.

234
00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,640
Speaker 2: Make the wrong choices or immoral it's never them. They

235
00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,880
Speaker 2: never take responsibility for themselves. And last thing, I don't

236
00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:06,320
Speaker 2: get you get away and like, I'm not like, I

237
00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:08,839
Speaker 2: think Kamalo's delt a very difficult hand here, right, coming

238
00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:12,600
Speaker 2: in late and saddled with the unpopular presidency and you know,

239
00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:15,480
Speaker 2: all of those things like cost of living being very high.

240
00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,120
Speaker 2: I think it was very difficult for even a great

241
00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,320
Speaker 2: candidate to come into that situation. So I'm not saying

242
00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:25,760
Speaker 2: everything that happened was on her shoulders, but there is

243
00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:31,120
Speaker 2: no doubt that she made some critical errors, one of

244
00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:36,080
Speaker 2: them being that she refused to separate herself from an

245
00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:40,679
Speaker 2: ongoing genocide and show even a shred of moral principle

246
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,000
Speaker 2: around that. So that's my thoughts on this.

247
00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:47,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, let's let's really break it down. She you said,

248
00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,440
Speaker 1: it's not entirely her fault, and that's true. It is

249
00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:53,040
Speaker 1: almost mostly Joe Biden's fault. Let's let's start with that.

250
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,560
Speaker 1: He is the chief villain, as Daryl Cooper said, you know,

251
00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,320
Speaker 1: the chief villain of the twenty twenty four election. He

252
00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,480
Speaker 1: is a chief villain. He's one of the great narsis

253
00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:04,880
Speaker 1: in American history. However, However, and this is where it

254
00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,280
Speaker 1: starts to fall on kamalaw, Nobody forced you to go

255
00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,480
Speaker 1: on the view and say, Nobody forced you to listen

256
00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:13,400
Speaker 1: to Biden. He was a dead literate maybe functionally like

257
00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,079
Speaker 1: dead president right at that time. No one forced you

258
00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:17,720
Speaker 1: to go on the on the View and listen to

259
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,520
Speaker 1: his phone call about no daylight Kid. All you had

260
00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:22,120
Speaker 1: to say is, there's a lot of things I would

261
00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,720
Speaker 1: do different from Joe Biden to actually inject some energy.

262
00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:29,280
Speaker 1: Nobody forced you to, you know, repeatedly not distance yourself

263
00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,680
Speaker 1: from the administration. Nobody forced you to listen to him

264
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:33,640
Speaker 1: from the point of which you are the candidate. And

265
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,040
Speaker 1: but this also gets to me about the weakness of

266
00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,520
Speaker 1: the process, and in a way, maybe one of her

267
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:42,200
Speaker 1: great errors was immediately accepting the nomination and not at

268
00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,160
Speaker 1: least trying to make it a seem as if people

269
00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,560
Speaker 1: could jump in and that there would be some process,

270
00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:49,840
Speaker 1: because you know, if we think back to it, do

271
00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:51,400
Speaker 1: you want to be handed something or do you want

272
00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,280
Speaker 1: to earn it? Like you know, there's there's a lot

273
00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,400
Speaker 1: of theory behind that about the satisfaction and the you know,

274
00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:59,280
Speaker 1: you know, the confidence that you get in something I

275
00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,880
Speaker 1: mean I could say, even from us starting this business, right,

276
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,160
Speaker 1: I feel confident in some of my judgment that I

277
00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:05,880
Speaker 1: would not have previously in the past when we were

278
00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,320
Speaker 1: just w two employees, because you took a bet and

279
00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:10,600
Speaker 1: it worked out and through your own work and all that.

280
00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,440
Speaker 1: They're bumpy and stuff along the way, but you could

281
00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:15,520
Speaker 1: prove your decision making and it kind of gives you

282
00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,800
Speaker 1: a confidence in your ability to try and sell something,

283
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,280
Speaker 1: to do something, and to take risks. She never had

284
00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:23,600
Speaker 1: that because she was handed it. I think she shouldn't

285
00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,440
Speaker 1: have done that. But on the Gaza things specifically, and

286
00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:28,520
Speaker 1: this gets to the voter. I just can't be in

287
00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,720
Speaker 1: a situation where I blame the voters. Now we can

288
00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:32,400
Speaker 1: talk to the voters and I will say, if you

289
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,160
Speaker 1: voted for Trump because you were anti I mean, I

290
00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,480
Speaker 1: guess Israel, like, you're honestly a fucking idiot. And I

291
00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:39,360
Speaker 1: think I said that at the time. I was like,

292
00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:41,880
Speaker 1: do you remember, I'm pretty sure I did that. Monogue.

293
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,520
Speaker 1: I was like, listen, if you're pro if your one

294
00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:46,680
Speaker 1: issue is Israel, I was like, you should vote for Kambla.

295
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,720
Speaker 1: You honestly should, you would honestly being dumb.

296
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:51,800
Speaker 2: People who voted for Trump. She's saying people who just

297
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:52,360
Speaker 2: didn't vote.

298
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:56,440
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, yeah, see, I'm not in that because if

299
00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:58,720
Speaker 1: that was your number one issue, you kind of made

300
00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:00,840
Speaker 1: the right call because at the end of the day,

301
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,920
Speaker 1: both would have probably kept the war going. To be honest,

302
00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:06,680
Speaker 1: I'm not sure we get this ceasepire under a Kama

303
00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:10,000
Speaker 1: administration because you know, I never saw the backbone and

304
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,000
Speaker 1: all of that behind that. They probably would have been

305
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,240
Speaker 1: more rhetorical about un and all of that, But like,

306
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,160
Speaker 1: I don't I'm not so sure we end up here

307
00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,480
Speaker 1: without somebody like Trump just going full retard and be like, hey,

308
00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,680
Speaker 1: actually it's over. I never saw Kama or Biden with

309
00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:26,080
Speaker 1: that ability. Maybe you know, it's unfalsifiable at this point,

310
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,160
Speaker 1: but the point really gets to this whole you didn't vote.

311
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,000
Speaker 1: Let's go back to Hillary. We cover this extensively at

312
00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,400
Speaker 1: the time. If the same number of black people vote

313
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,520
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen that voted in two thousand and eight

314
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,800
Speaker 1: and twenty twelve, Hillary wins the election. And what did

315
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,480
Speaker 1: the Democrats say, Instead of why didn't these people come

316
00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,920
Speaker 1: out to vote? It was how dare you not come

317
00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:48,640
Speaker 1: out to vote? It's your fault. Well, why let's do

318
00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,080
Speaker 1: some analysis. Why do they not come out to vote?

319
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,440
Speaker 1: They thought by voting for Obama and for twice that

320
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,360
Speaker 1: their lives would get a lot better, and they didn't,

321
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,560
Speaker 1: And they didn't think that Hillary would do much about it.

322
00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,520
Speaker 1: Whose fault is that? To me, it's Hillary's fault. For Kamala,

323
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:03,480
Speaker 1: it's the same thing. I mean, if you look at

324
00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,639
Speaker 1: some of the stats, if you drive out let's say

325
00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,280
Speaker 1: you're talking about Israel, if you drive out you young people,

326
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,280
Speaker 1: she lost young men, remember that. I mean, that's a

327
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,280
Speaker 1: huge deal. Gen Z, a lot of new voters. They

328
00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:16,920
Speaker 1: swung to Trump. That is a systematic failure of the

329
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,359
Speaker 1: Democratic Party and of Kamala Harris despite all the coconut

330
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,880
Speaker 1: memes and all this other bullshit turned out to be fake.

331
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,959
Speaker 1: So I just you know, we can't absolve these people

332
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,240
Speaker 1: of responsibility. And like you said about go protest Trump,

333
00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,400
Speaker 1: it's like, first of all, anyone who's like rabidly pro

334
00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,840
Speaker 1: Palestine is not pro Trump at this point, it doesn't exist.

335
00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,200
Speaker 1: So it's like calling out a coalition which is entirely fake.

336
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,000
Speaker 1: And then also to put this whole legacy of if

337
00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,920
Speaker 1: you think it's so bad well, I mean you also

338
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,720
Speaker 1: didn't give them the path or at the very least

339
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,199
Speaker 1: make a convincing argument, because the argument and all of this,

340
00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:54,440
Speaker 1: you know, we debated to hear a million times about

341
00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,639
Speaker 1: leading up to Trump, about what the legacy of all

342
00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:58,800
Speaker 1: that would look like. I think you were a lot

343
00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:00,359
Speaker 1: more clearer than a lot of other shit heads on

344
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:01,919
Speaker 1: the left, frankly, who are like, oh, it will be

345
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:03,840
Speaker 1: all that bad. I'm like, no, from your perspective, it's

346
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:05,800
Speaker 1: going to be fucking hell, let's be honest, And it

347
00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,480
Speaker 1: is from their perspective, which is kind of what a

348
00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:10,399
Speaker 1: lot of people in the right vote for. But that's

349
00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,320
Speaker 1: my point though, is that there was an entire ecosystem

350
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,840
Speaker 1: of people who wanted to convince them that Trump was

351
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:19,639
Speaker 1: going to be the one who was going to be

352
00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,320
Speaker 1: anti israela pro palaesign or whatever. And I think those

353
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,320
Speaker 1: people can be condemned. But to say not voting, like

354
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,680
Speaker 1: at least from a pro pales sign perspective, to say

355
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,920
Speaker 1: not voting should be condemned is preposterous. It's just absolutely

356
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:36,560
Speaker 1: absolves all the responsibilities and the systematic failures going back

357
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,720
Speaker 1: like thirty years inside the Democratic Party. So I need

358
00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:41,840
Speaker 1: to see somebody grapple with that, and I don't see

359
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,560
Speaker 1: a single person. That's what I don't get about the Democrats.

360
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:48,080
Speaker 1: You're so pathetic and weak. You're nothing.

361
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,600
Speaker 2: And here's the thing, is like a couple things on

362
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:57,680
Speaker 2: that there is such a deep psychological helplessness to these people. Yeah,

363
00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:01,159
Speaker 2: like nothing's ever in their control, nothing ever in their power.

364
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,600
Speaker 2: And the upside of that is if nothing's ever in

365
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 2: your control or in your power, then nothing's ever your fault.

366
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,840
Speaker 2: And so you know, there's always you know from the

367
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,960
Speaker 2: Obama administration, all the excuses about why the Affordable Care

368
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:14,840
Speaker 2: Act really kind of sucks, you know, I mean the

369
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,399
Speaker 2: whole fight over a corpor and I talk to Corbin

370
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:18,440
Speaker 2: Truent yesterday.

371
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:20,560
Speaker 4: He used to work with AOC and he was saying.

372
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:22,560
Speaker 2: We really need to internalize that the whole fight that

373
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,639
Speaker 2: Democrats are picking over the shutdown is like we can't

374
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,760
Speaker 2: let normal Obamacare come back, Like we have to keep

375
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:34,280
Speaker 2: these subsidies going, because normal Obamacare is so insanely unaffordable, like.

376
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:35,440
Speaker 4: It is unacceptable.

377
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,480
Speaker 2: That's the fight that they take, so all sorts of

378
00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,760
Speaker 2: excuses around why that was the best thing they could

379
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,359
Speaker 2: and get a public option was impossible and by administration

380
00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:44,320
Speaker 2: and all kinds of excuse, we can't get minimum ways

381
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,879
Speaker 2: of parliamentary and this and that, like there's always some

382
00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:51,080
Speaker 2: either villain within the Democratic Party or the Republicans, even

383
00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,560
Speaker 2: when they're out of power and the opposition they're just

384
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:57,840
Speaker 2: so powerful, can't possibly overcome them. And there's all this

385
00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:02,960
Speaker 2: learned helplessness. And I think I genuinely think that the

386
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:08,240
Speaker 2: reason why they choose to take that mental tactic of

387
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:10,800
Speaker 2: pretending like everything is out of their control and out

388
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,200
Speaker 2: of their hands, even when you know, you're the president

389
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,199
Speaker 2: of the United States and you control the set of

390
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,000
Speaker 2: the House or whatever, it's because they don't want to

391
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,560
Speaker 2: have any responsibility for their actions. And this is, you know,

392
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,000
Speaker 2: to go even one layer deeper, it's kind of a

393
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:27,240
Speaker 2: core ideology of neoliberalism actually, of which both parties have

394
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:31,440
Speaker 2: been you know, we're very involved with supporting because what

395
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,920
Speaker 2: neoliberalism is at bottom is outsourcing your thinking to the markets.

396
00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:37,600
Speaker 2: So you now ever have to make a decision, it's just, oh, well,

397
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,520
Speaker 2: the markets did their thing and this is what they want,

398
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:40,040
Speaker 2: and that's just.

399
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:40,520
Speaker 4: How it went.

400
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,640
Speaker 2: So I think it's very deeply ingrained in the psychology

401
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:46,439
Speaker 2: but I've also been thinking about the other thing that

402
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:51,400
Speaker 2: you just said, Soccer, which is part of why Democrats

403
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,520
Speaker 2: have even in Trump two point zero now that they're

404
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,240
Speaker 2: you know, they aren't the ones who are sending the

405
00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,560
Speaker 2: bombs directly, and many of them are still voting for it.

406
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,680
Speaker 2: But why they've had such a hard time separating from

407
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,199
Speaker 2: Israel and calling it a genocide and saying this is

408
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,959
Speaker 2: unacceptable and we have to stop it and forcefully resisting

409
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,199
Speaker 2: it is because they know that they were complicit and

410
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,200
Speaker 2: they don't want to take responsibility for that. They don't

411
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:15,960
Speaker 2: want to have to go back and say, you know what,

412
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,080
Speaker 2: we fucked up, and you guys like you guys who

413
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,280
Speaker 2: were protesting us, you were actually right, you were correct.

414
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,200
Speaker 4: That I think would go so far.

415
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,320
Speaker 2: I actually think it would be so like powerful for

416
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:32,440
Speaker 2: people to see genuine accountability, genuine reckoning with what they

417
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 2: were complicit in. I think it would do so much

418
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,880
Speaker 2: to see that. And they're just thoroughly incapable of acknowledging

419
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,960
Speaker 2: that there was any error there. And so now you

420
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,479
Speaker 2: have a situation where you know, we're in a cesfar.

421
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,320
Speaker 2: We'll see whether it lasts or not. A lot of

422
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,440
Speaker 2: questions about that. There was you know, hostage exchange which

423
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 2: all the Israeli hostages are now released. Palestinians got two

424
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,640
Speaker 2: thousand of their hostages back from the Israelis. And you've

425
00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 2: missed your moment really to be able to have that right.

426
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,200
Speaker 2: You've missed your moment to be able to really take

427
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,359
Speaker 2: a moral high ground over you know, what the Trump

428
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 2: administration has done here. Maybe it would have been concluded

429
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,159
Speaker 2: more quickly Underkammala. Maybe it would have been maybe they

430
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 2: wouldn't have had the complete starvation. We know the Biden

431
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 2: administration did push and you know, maintain some higher level

432
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:20,640
Speaker 2: of aid than was maintained under the Trump administration, where

433
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 2: you didn't have the total and complete starvation.

434
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 4: We'll never know.

435
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 2: And you never took the time you Kamala, Harris and

436
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,400
Speaker 2: you know others in the Democratic Party, but specifically, you

437
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 2: never came out and said, I object to this thing

438
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,119
Speaker 2: that the Trump administration is doing in Gaza. Here's what

439
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 2: I if I was president, Here's what I would have

440
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,679
Speaker 2: done differently. You never did that, so we have nothing

441
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 2: to go on that you would have been different or

442
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 2: better in any way.

443
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, if you want pitch perfect proof

444
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,879
Speaker 1: of all this Obama and Mark Maren from Mark Maroon's

445
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,199
Speaker 1: last podcast, Let's take a listen, and.

446
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,360
Speaker 7: As you get older, I'm gonna show up my joke

447
00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:04,200
Speaker 7: about this, no matter how much you want to pretend otherwise.

448
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 7: You're starting to get a little out of touch. You're

449
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 7: not completely you know, plugged into the zeitgeys. It happens naturally,

450
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 7: It just happens. Yeah, I mean, look, I don't My

451
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 7: brain doesn't register TikTok. Yeah, mine either, the same way

452
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 7: that it does my sixteen year old niece, right right,

453
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 7: You got to get a guy to do it for you.

454
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:37,919
Speaker 7: It's not just the technology itself. It's that I'm not

455
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 7: plugged in. I'm not relating to the cultural you know,

456
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 7: stream in the same way that somebody who's twenty or

457
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,159
Speaker 7: twenty five or even thirty five is.

458
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 9: But the brains have been you know broken, you know,

459
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 9: through exploiting grievance and anger. And you know, in talking

460
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 9: about the left, that the fact that so many decided

461
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 9: to not vote out of protest because they didn't feel

462
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:10,880
Speaker 9: that the situation in Israel, the ethnic cleansing of Gaza

463
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 9: and whatnot, was not going to be dealt with by

464
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 9: Kamala or however that goes. So you get this protest

465
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,400
Speaker 9: vote of people not willing to make a compromise for

466
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 9: what you used to talk about is the incremental progress.

467
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:27,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, the incremental I got an email recently said, you

468
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: seem very worried about the destruction of norms, yet you

469
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: always talk about how during that time period you talked

470
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: about how those norms are bad. And that's why, because

471
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 1: I lived through this shit George W. Bush and Obama

472
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: who lectured me about the norms as the whole. Meanwhile,

473
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:51,640
Speaker 1: what was happening. The entire apparatus of American life collapsed

474
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 1: around us. We sacrificed our empire abroad for what for Iraq?

475
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,640
Speaker 1: We sacrificed our economy in two thousand and eight for

476
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,159
Speaker 1: the bankers, and that entire time we captive give him.

477
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: We said, please save us. We're gonna vote for you.

478
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 1: This said, Oh, don't worry, We're gonna pass the Affordable

479
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: Care Act. I love your point. We can't let Obamacare

480
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: return to normal Obamacare because that will fuck people over.

481
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 1: What does that tell you about OBAMACA? You know, we

482
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: voted for the homeowners. What happened? We voted for prosecution.

483
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: What happened. We voted for more regulation, we got fucking

484
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 1: DoD Frank And now look at our economy right now.

485
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 1: Same with getting out of Iraq. So that they're high

486
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: minded liberalism or they're high minded conservatism destroyed this country.

487
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 1: And that's why I'm like, as bad, yes, I've become

488
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 1: an acceleration, as as scary, and all these things may seem,

489
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. For me, I still have some faith

490
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 1: that will turn on the other side because I lived

491
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: twenty five years under their regime. You know, I was

492
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: born under Bill Clinton. Consider the progress of the United

493
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: States economy and a US foreign policy since that time

494
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 1: that I was born in nineteen ninety two. How can

495
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 1: you still worship at the altar of these norms? You cannot.

496
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: And so we can argue about what the norms and

497
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 1: new norms and all that right should be. But I

498
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: cannot live in a world or have this motherfucker lecturing

499
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 1: at me with his chin up again about how fine

500
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: things are and about the better angels of our nature

501
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: while shit just continues to get worse every single year.

502
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 2: That is the thing that is very jarring. I listened

503
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 2: to this whole conversation and I wanted to pull that

504
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 2: TikTok point he made about how he's out of touch

505
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 2: because I thought it was very I mean, it was

506
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 2: one of the more honest parts of the podcast.

507
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 4: He's like, I don't really get it that. I'm like,

508
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 4: I'm kind of on a touch.

509
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 2: So that's why I don't say that much about politics

510
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 2: because I don't really I'm not really in touch with

511
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,120
Speaker 2: what people are thinking anymore. And I was like, wow,

512
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 2: that that's actually interesting level of self awareness. But I

513
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 2: also want to say, I think being out of touch,

514
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 2: like that's a choice, you know, like you could go

515
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 2: It's not like TikTok is not that hard to understand.

516
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 2: You could go on TikTok, you would understand.

517
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: I'm not on TikTok, and I fully am understanding what's

518
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 1: going on. It's not.

519
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, And also, you know, you choose who you interact with,

520
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 2: like you sir on it yourself with a bunch of

521
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 2: like celebrities and rich people, and so yeah, you're gonna

522
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 2: be on a touch. I mean that that is a

523
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 2: choice that you have made. So that was that was

524
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,159
Speaker 2: one piece, and then the other part. It's very jarring

525
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 2: to see him still doing like a twenty twelve style

526
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 2: of politics while the world is burning around you.

527
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 4: You know, you said, his vibe is like, oh, everything's.

528
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 2: Fine, and well, you know, we'll all compromise and we'll

529
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 2: take the high road when they take the low road.

530
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 2: It's like that shit is so far we are so

531
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 2: far past that. So yeah, it felt like listening to

532
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 2: him talk, it really did feel like a relic from

533
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 2: another era. And I know we joke about like, let's

534
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 2: say they got rid of termlaments and you get the

535
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 2: Trump Obama matchup, and you know, we've always said like

536
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 2: Obama would crush him, and I think Obama would.

537
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 4: Have beat him in twenty sixteen.

538
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 2: I'm not so sure anymore because watching that, he just

539
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 2: felt so so far removed from the actual energy and

540
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 2: the concern that people have. You know, this thing that

541
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 2: he's always been accused of, which has always been true

542
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 2: of sort of like standing aloof that's what's an observing

543
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 2: society from afar and not really feeling like he has

544
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 2: a stake in it. That was one thing in twenty twelve.

545
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 2: It's another one right now. Like when the shit is

546
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 2: hitting the fan and you know, kids are being autistic,

547
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 2: kids are being stolen from their parents on the streets

548
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 2: of Chicago and apartment building rated and we just oversaw

549
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 2: a genocide, like in the moment of right now to

550
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 2: do your just remove I'm above it all and I'm

551
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 2: just going to tell you from on high where things

552
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 2: have gone astray, especially when you are a significant part

553
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 2: of the reason that things went on this track because

554
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 2: you promised a hopeful a different politics and you didn't

555
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 2: deliver for people in the way that people thought that

556
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 2: you would. Yeah, I don't know how that would go

557
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 2: over with the American people at this point.

558
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 4: I'm not so sure.

559
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: Look, that was from a left perspective. From the right,

560
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: it's like, who flouted this country? Obama? You all right,

561
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: you're the one who chose all like basically cultural politics.

562
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: He is literally the everything that went wrong. He was

563
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 1: elected on a class anti war message and he turned

564
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: it to become the cultural war president. That's who he was.

565
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: That's ultimately his only real legacy is like DHAKA, the

566
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 1: Affordable Care Act, Oh, fantastic little contribution that you did there,

567
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: and the woke era it began under him in twenty fourteen.

568
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 1: It was a disaster. Now again, there's a lot of

569
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: blame and all that stuff to go around, but you

570
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: did not fulfill those core promises, and so the latter

571
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: stage of your administration that set up the Trump victory

572
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: is ultimately like those problems were not solved under your administration.

573
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: You could have headed off a lot of this. And

574
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: so I think you're right. I don't think he would

575
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: be Trump today in twenty twenty four. I don't think

576
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: there's a chance that he could actually come because.

577
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 2: Because Trump is a creature of the moment exactly, and

578
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 2: he's a monster, in my opinion, monster of the moment,

579
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,479
Speaker 2: but he is. He is a creature of the moment,

580
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 2: and Obama is the relic of the past.

581
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: Obama is a symptom and a relic of a time

582
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: when we still had hope. If you're young, you actually

583
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: don't remember that, you know. I was talking to a

584
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: journalism class recently. These kids are like nineteen, right, They

585
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: didn't know what the Mueller investigation was, Crystal. They literally

586
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: didn't even remember Mueller. So that was eight years ago.

587
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: So imagine trying to talk to them about Obama in

588
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight. Literally ancient history. They have no

589
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 1: memory of a time when we still had actual faith

590
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 1: in our political institutions. And it's because of him that

591
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: I don't personally between Bush and him, I said, this

592
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: shit is rigged, it is fake. There is nothing redeeming

593
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: left inside of these people, the Washington establishment or any

594
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 1: of that. Now, yeah, I think there's a lot of

595
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: criticism and stuff to go around, but like you really

596
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 1: have to remember how much faith everybody put in withdrawing

597
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: from Iraq and two thousand and eight and how things

598
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: would go to where we ended up in what is

599
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: it January of twenty seventeen when Obama left office. If

600
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,239
Speaker 1: you didn't live through that, you can't understand how we

601
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: actually got to where we are right.

602
00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 2: Well, and this is again where the neoliberal impulse words

603
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 2: zero responsibility and helplessness comes in, because like you can't

604
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 2: help but look, your two terms in office were followed

605
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 2: by Donald Trump, So you did you know you were

606
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 2: somewhat now part of it. I do think there was

607
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 2: like a you know, mass racial backlash to him, Like

608
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 2: I do think that was part of what fueled the fire,

609
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 2: and Trump was part of that, right with the Birtherism

610
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 2: conspiracy and all of that. But that doesn't absolve you

611
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 2: of like there was clearly there were a lot of

612
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 2: exits off the highway of where we were headed to now,

613
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 2: and one of the biggest ones was two thousand and eight.

614
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 2: And then and then also he you know, he has

615
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 2: stuck his hands back in our politics at strategic points

616
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 2: to also make sure that the Democratic Party doesn't become

617
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 2: a party of the now like creatures of the now,

618
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 2: to make sure that the specifically the Burnie wing of

619
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 2: the party is blocked. Whether it was his intervention in

620
00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 2: the DNC race obviously intervened extraordinarily in twenty twenty. He

621
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 2: also is a big part of the reason why he's

622
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 2: the one who anointed Hillary Clinton for twenty sixteen like

623
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 2: she was his choice. So his fingerprints are all over

624
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 2: the present day Democratic Party, which is such a failure.

625
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 4: And there's there's no reckoning.

626
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: Not who presided over the largest loss in black wealth ever,

627
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: first black president. I mean, nobody ever grapples with that one.

628
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: You know, you talked about racial backlash. Sure, a lot

629
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: of white people in twenty twelve voted for him in Ohio.

630
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: A lot of the white people all over America, you know,

631
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: a lot of Red states today put their faith in

632
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: Barack Husain Obama after four years. Okay, no one forced

633
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: you man to do this. Man wanted to go to Hio. Yeah,

634
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: that's why everyone always talks about that race thing.

635
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 4: I go.

636
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe in Alabama and all these places. She still

637
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: won a lot of red states today and even in

638
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: twenty twelve, you know, before all this happened. So like,

639
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: let's like, these people have agency, and they could have

640
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: done a lot of stuff if they wanted to to

641
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 1: actually fix the country. So anyway, this is a long

642
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 1: way of saying a lot of it Obama as well.

643
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: You can see why eight her so much. All right,

644
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: let's get to Ken Vogel.

645
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 2: Very lucky to be joined in the studio this morning

646
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 2: by Ken Vogel. He is a phenomenal reporter for the

647
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 2: New York Times and also author of this new book

648
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 2: right here. It is called Devil's Advocate, The Hidden story

649
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 2: of Rudy Giuliani, Hunter Biden, and the Washington Insiders on

650
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 2: the payrolls of corrupt foreign interest. So something that we

651
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,719
Speaker 2: are certainly very interested in here can We've relied on

652
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 2: your reporting so much on the show over the course

653
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 2: of the year, So thank you so much.

654
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 4: It's great to have you in studio.

655
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 3: Yes, you're to be with you. I'm a big fan

656
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 3: of the show.

657
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: Thank you.

658
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 4: It means a lot.

659
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 2: Well, we had an abundance of examples of foreign influence

660
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:37,959
Speaker 2: just sort of out in the open. I mean, this

661
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 2: is one thing about Trump two point zero. We always

662
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 2: already covered the comments he made about Mary Maddelson, like, hey,

663
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 2: this lady, you know, gave me a bunch of money

664
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 2: and then I did the stuff that she wanted me

665
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 2: to do. So he tends to wear it on his

666
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 2: sleeve a bit more. And we have another example of this.

667
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,959
Speaker 2: We can put this up on the screen. So this

668
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 2: was from you know, his recent trip in Egypt, and

669
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 2: you can see him here with the Indonesian president who

670
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 2: asked him if he can meet with his son Eric

671
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 2: in particular. Now Eric is not a member of the administration.

672
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 2: Eric is running the Trump organization, or is among those

673
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 2: running the Trump organization. Trump says, yeah, sure, Eric's such

674
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 2: a good boy. I'll have him give you a call.

675
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 2: What did you make of this particular moment and the

676
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 2: import here, Yeah, I mean it.

677
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 10: Really shows the degree to which Trump and the folks

678
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 10: around him have kind of dropped the pretense. They are

679
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,879
Speaker 10: openly blowing the line between their foreign policy, US foreign

680
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 10: policy and their business interests. And you know, there was

681
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 10: a telling quote that Eric Trump gave one of my

682
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 10: colleagues Ben Protests at the beginning of the administration. He said,

683
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 10: in the first term, we did everything imaginable to avoid

684
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 10: any appearance of impropriety, and frankly, we got crushed anyway,

685
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 10: and said that we had lost an absolute fortune.

686
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 3: Quote, we can't just sit out in perpetuity, and I won't.

687
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 10: I'm not in government, I'm in private industry. And he

688
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 10: is again he's wearing it on his sleeve. He's admitting,

689
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 10: like this is what we're doing. And you can see

690
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 10: why someone like the president of Indonesia or any other

691
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 10: foreign leader or interest would want to do business with

692
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 10: the Trump you know, with the Trump family, with the

693
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 10: various crypto interests, with the real estate business, because there

694
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,359
Speaker 10: is this thinking that it is going to get you

695
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 10: at the front of the line in terms of your

696
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,720
Speaker 10: asks on foreign policy, that is, being able to shape

697
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 10: the US government by doing business with Trump or the

698
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 10: people around it.

699
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 1: If anything, this is a language they speak. Well, They're

700
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: like pay off the guy's son easy, you know, like

701
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: we do that here all the time. You know, we

702
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 1: set up shell companies or any of that. That's like

703
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: a natural way. But one of the things I've always

704
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 1: appreciated about your reporting is that you dive into the

705
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 1: way that it sneaks its way through Washington. So some

706
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,280
Speaker 1: of the examples that you find here in the book

707
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 1: are paying off of these various lobbyist shell companies and

708
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 1: other things that will funnel around in order to obfuscate

709
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,839
Speaker 1: possibly what that influence is. Throughout your reporting, what did

710
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: you find as the countries which are the best at

711
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: their foreign influence operations?

712
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 10: I mean it is to your point, soccer is like

713
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 10: this mindset that you see in the developing world and

714
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 10: parts of like the post communist world in the Middle

715
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 10: East where they have this. You know, this is the

716
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 10: way that politics works. If you want something from government,

717
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 10: you pay the people in the government or the people

718
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 10: around them.

719
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 3: They're gatekeepers.

720
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 10: And so we've always sort of had this conceit in

721
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 10: the US said oh no, no, no.

722
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 3: We're different, we don't do that.

723
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 10: We have all these ethics rules and disclosure rules and

724
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 10: campaign finance rules and lobbying disclosure requirements that essentially are

725
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 10: the firewall that prevents that type of activity from happening here.

726
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 10: And what I found is I reported the book that no, actually,

727
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 10: we're not that different, and it's not just the Trump

728
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 10: administration and the Trump family. It goes back to democratic

729
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 10: administration's past and Republican administration's past, and the places in the.

730
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 3: World that are best at it are those that have

731
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 3: that mindset. So they're the.

732
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,720
Speaker 10: Ukraines of the world, where it's this you know, post

733
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 10: Soviet country where like, how do you get what you want?

734
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 10: How do you become super rich or an oligarch who's

735
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 10: able to like cozy up to the state and essentially

736
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 10: privatize state assets and make them your own, And so

737
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 10: how do you get that?

738
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 3: In the US? If you're a Ukrainian oligarch.

739
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 10: You pay Rudy Giuliani, or you pay Hunter Biden, or

740
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 10: you pay Paul Manifford, you pay someone like that. And

741
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 10: the thing that surprised me, particularly in Ukraine, but in

742
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 10: a lot of these other countries is the bi partisan

743
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 10: nature of this. It's not just that like you would

744
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 10: pay you know, a campaign aid for John McCain or

745
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 10: for you know, Bob Dole or for John Kerry. You

746
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 10: pay them all at the same time, they would be

747
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 10: all on the same team working for Victor Yanakovich in

748
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 10: the case of Ukraine, where he had Paul Manifort and

749
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 10: Tony Podesta and Tad Devine.

750
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 3: Who are in the US.

751
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 10: They're like taking these principal stands and posturing about how

752
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 10: they have all these you know, how they're involvement of

753
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 10: politics is guided in shape by some like overarching set

754
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 10: of principles that align them with the red team or

755
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,280
Speaker 10: the blue team. Well know, in Ukraine it's the green team,

756
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 10: and that green team unites the red and the blue team,

757
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 10: and that's the money team.

758
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 2: Yes, talk a little bit more about Ukraine example, because

759
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 2: this one obviously is very big in the public consciousness

760
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 2: Hunter Biden, you know, Burismo, all of that.

761
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,439
Speaker 4: Like he claims, Oh, I was just on.

762
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 2: The board because I have this expertise, had nothing to

763
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 2: do with my father. I didn't give them any favors.

764
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 2: I mean, what do you actually find in the book

765
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,839
Speaker 2: about the way that these relationships work, in particular when

766
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 2: you have someone who is just selling basically their proximity

767
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 2: to an administration.

768
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean that's exactly what he was doing, and

769
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 10: that is you know, the mindset there was this oligarch,

770
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 10: Mikola Zoltchevsky, who is the head of Barisma, And it's

771
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 10: the quintessential oligarchic fact pattern where like he was in

772
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 10: the administration of this corrupt strong man president that the

773
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 10: US wanted gone, Victor Yanikovic, who, by the way, is

774
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 10: the guy who was represented by Paul Mannaford and Tad

775
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 10: Devine and you know Tony Podesta, and they as a

776
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 10: result of this fact pattern where he's essentially privatized these

777
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 10: state assets and made a fortune off of them, the US,

778
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 10: the UK and the Ukrainian prosecutors were like looking at

779
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 10: this guy and identifying him as like a poster child

780
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 10: for the type of corruption that they were trying to

781
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 10: root out under the new government. And so he hired

782
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 10: a bunch of people, not just Hunter Biden, but former

783
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 10: Polish president Kwasnewski. I think is how you say his

784
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 10: name to try to signal to prosecutors and international officials

785
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,359
Speaker 10: that like, hey, like, don't mess with me because I've

786
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 10: got protection, you know, again, thinking in the way that

787
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 10: like you think in Ukraine that this is going to

788
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 10: back away the you know, the government officials from coming

789
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 10: after you, and you know, we do see examples. You know,

790
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 10: the question is like, what did Hunter Biden actually do.

791
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,720
Speaker 10: We do see examples where he did recruit a lobbying

792
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 10: firm that was going to do the lobbying, and they

793
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 10: did meet with people, and he actually met with people

794
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 10: in his father's government India Obama Biden administration. What did

795
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 10: he actually deliver It's questionable. I mean the prosecutor who

796
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 10: they did want gone.

797
00:39:58,120 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 3: And this is.

798
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 10: Sort of getting in the weeds little bit, but there's

799
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 10: this prosecutor who has been at the center of the

800
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,799
Speaker 10: Barisma stories, a guy they named of Victor Choken and

801
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,839
Speaker 10: like the Democrats have suggested, oh no, no, they didn't

802
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 10: want you know, Barisma was okay with this guy because

803
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 10: he wasn't actually investigating him.

804
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:16,280
Speaker 3: Well no, that's not actually accurate.

805
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 10: He wasn't really investigating him in the traditional sense, but

806
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 10: in the Ukrainian sense, he helped open the possibility of investigations

807
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 10: and used that to elicit bribes from the from Zolcewsky,

808
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 10: the oligarco own Barisma. So they did want him gone,

809
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 10: and whether it was Hunter Biden or the people he recruited,

810
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 10: they were certainly helpful in effectuating that end result. Uh,

811
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 10: and he was fired and ultimately the investigations into Bearisma

812
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 10: were dropped by the subsequent prosecutor. Before you had then

813
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 10: flipping sides and going into bed with Vigiliati.

814
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 1: It's been years since I've dealt it. Even hearing his

815
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 1: name again, I'm like, oh man, it's been a long

816
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 1: time since we've come.

817
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 3: All what I said, write about it.

818
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 10: My editors will be like, can we write a story

819
00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 10: that doesn't really like it's like a game recap of

820
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 10: the Poles hockey?

821
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: It is? Yeah, it is what it is. Yeah. One

822
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: of the things we talk a lot about here on

823
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 1: the show is pro Israel influence. But one of the

824
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 1: things that they will often say is, well, you never

825
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: cover Katari influence, and so you are quite literally one

826
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: of the experts on this. We pulled one year older

827
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:20,240
Speaker 1: stories F two covered Yeah, right, we have. But anyway,

828
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,760
Speaker 1: all right, so you wrote this story after Pam Bondi

829
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: was selected as the Attorney General. You said, as lobbyist,

830
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 1: Bondi had clients including Amazon, GM Uber and Qatar. In

831
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: the book, you also dictate some of the Katari influence

832
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 1: you've watched here in Washington. Tell us a little bit

833
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 1: about that. What what how sophisticated is it? What is

834
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: the money and to what end are they trying to buy? What?

835
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: What type of influence do they want?

836
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean they threw around huge sums of money,

837
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 10: as you guys have noted, particularly in the first Trump

838
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 10: administration when they were locked in this regional andmbrolio with

839
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 10: Saudi and with the UAE over this this boycott, right

840
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 10: and so, and it was it was multi pronged. I

841
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 10: mean they had sort of set the seeds, sort of

842
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 10: laid the foundation by cultivating a business relationship with Jared Kusher,

843
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,879
Speaker 10: who was the point person on on sort of Middle

844
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 10: East policy during the first Trump administration now arguably again

845
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 10: in the second Trump administration.

846
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 3: But then that wasn't enough for them.

847
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:19,840
Speaker 10: That was sort of the you know, the approach that

848
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 10: I was talking about before with the Indonesian president where

849
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:24,399
Speaker 10: they're going straight to the top. But they also did

850
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 10: a very traditional influence campaign where they threw around a

851
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 10: ton of money to lobbyists on both sides of the

852
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 10: aisle and including Brian Ballard's firm which was where Pam

853
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 10: Bondi was employed before she was tapped as Attorney General.

854
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 3: And you know, they they did.

855
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 10: They did sort of curry favor with, you know, with

856
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 10: the administration and managed to get the administration to help

857
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 10: resolve that that boycott in a way that was to

858
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 10: their to their liking. And you know, there were a

859
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:54,839
Speaker 10: number of cases that came out of that where there

860
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 10: was this it's sort of ironic now, but there was

861
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 10: a clamp down on this type of foreign lobbying during

862
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 10: the first Trump administration as a result of the Mueller

863
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 10: investigation and some of the spillover investigations, and it ended

864
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 10: up leading to a deferred prosecution agreement in the case

865
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 10: of a prominent Trump connected lobbyist, Barry Bennett, where he

866
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 10: didn't exactly plead guilty, but he admitted that he had

867
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 10: violated Farah while he was representing the Kutars. And so

868
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 10: it's ironic now that Pam Bondi is Attorney General. One

869
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 10: of the first things that you did was decriminalize the

870
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 10: prosecution of the Foreign Agents Registration Act and say we're

871
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 10: not going to be allocating prosecutorial resources to going after

872
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 10: these types of cases.

873
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 3: So it's really take note of that.

874
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 1: Actually it's a.

875
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,359
Speaker 3: Free for all right now, Yeah.

876
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 1: Exact, so much stuff going on.

877
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,840
Speaker 2: I think you know, oftentimes there's definitely a lot of

878
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 2: division between the two parties in Washington, but the place

879
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 2: where they tend to come up together the most is

880
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 2: actually on foreign policy, and oftentimes in a way that

881
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 2: American people are not particularly pleased about. How much of

882
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 2: that owes to this, you know wash, this amount of

883
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 2: foreign cash that this city is a washing in, and

884
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:03,360
Speaker 2: you know, Ukraine is a perfect example.

885
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:04,280
Speaker 4: You talk about Tad.

886
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 2: Devine and Paul Maniford, this is a Democratic strategist and

887
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,839
Speaker 2: Republican strategist, like very bipartisan. The way that this money flows, Yeah, I.

888
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 3: Think a lot of it.

889
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:13,720
Speaker 10: A lot of what you're talking about where we're making

890
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 10: these you know, bargains with the devil, where it's like

891
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 10: this particular country or leader or interest is not really

892
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:25,440
Speaker 10: aligned with our ideals about democracy and human rights and

893
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 10: free speech and religious freedom, but they're kind of our

894
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 10: best friend in the region. And a lot of the

895
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 10: sort of casting of these entities as aligned with US

896
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 10: foreign policy is because of these lobbyists. You go back

897
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 10: to Paul Maniford, who is really like the godfather of

898
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 10: this industry, and what he would do during the Reagan

899
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 10: and Bush administrations was go around the world and find

900
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 10: you know, sometimes really blood so brutal, you know, opposition leaders,

901
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 10: guerrilla leaders, or you know, dictators, and take them to

902
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 10: Washington and say, like, this person can be or bulwark

903
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 10: against communism in whatever part of the world, whether it's

904
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:08,320
Speaker 10: in you know, Marcos in the Philippines or Jonas Savimbi,

905
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 10: the bloody guerrilla leader in Angola. Paul Manifort helped them

906
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:16,760
Speaker 10: win US support, bipartisan US support and funding by taking

907
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 10: them to Washington and casting them as like a bulwark

908
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 10: against communists. And well, fast forward till now we have

909
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 10: a very similar thing happening. But it's not about any

910
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 10: particular ideological alignment. Rather, it's about like casting these people

911
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:33,320
Speaker 10: as like this person is the Trump of the Balkans,

912
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 10: and it's and this person is the Trump of the

913
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:39,399
Speaker 10: buck Is because yeah, because they have been prosecuted by

914
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 10: you know, prosecutors in their home country, or they've been

915
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:45,760
Speaker 10: sanctioned by the Biden administration, and therefore you President Trump

916
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 10: should take their side and you know, give them the

917
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 10: US government funding and remove sanctions because.

918
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:56,839
Speaker 1: They are twenty billion dollars bailout for example, a huge

919
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 1: amount of Silicon Valley guys where friends with him, pushed

920
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,879
Speaker 1: his administration. Now he needs a bailout. They're the same

921
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 1: people who backed Trump and he gets this like sweetheart

922
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: deal from the US government. It's I mean, have you actually,

923
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 1: I'm curious, have you heard anything about that? How exactly

924
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 1: did all that come up?

925
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're doing some reporting that I'm running at reveal,

926
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 3: But I mean, there are lots of examples.

927
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:19,760
Speaker 10: Yes, South America's is a going because certainly Bolsonaro, they tried,

928
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 10: they tried to help bol Sceonnaro, like you know, overturn

929
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:25,919
Speaker 10: the election results, and then they tried to Trump tried

930
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 10: to back off the Supreme Court. And Bolsonnaro has a

931
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 10: lot of these Trump allies, including Donald Trump Junior, who

932
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 10: he's cultivated, and there was there were reports about Bolsonaro's

933
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 10: son being in the White House early in the early.

934
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:38,919
Speaker 3: In this term.

935
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 10: So it's another example where like some of the framing

936
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 10: has changed, like the way that these lobbyists and others

937
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,280
Speaker 10: try to cast these people as allied with the US.

938
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 3: It's not like a Cold War type of framing.

939
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 10: It's really like a cult of personality that they are

940
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 10: aligned with Trump and therefore they deserve US government support

941
00:46:58,160 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 10: and funding.

942
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 2: And then the other pieces you mentioned before is just

943
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 2: like direct cash infusions and how much has his crypto

944
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 2: coin and you know, crypto holdings and the company associated

945
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 2: with that, Like how much has that fuel just inflows

946
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 2: of potentially corrupt cash influences administration?

947
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, hugely. I mean, you know, democrats and critics. I'm

948
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:20,280
Speaker 3: not like dismissing this criticism.

949
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 10: During the first administration made a huge deal of like

950
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 10: foreign interest staying at the Trump hotel that was a

951
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:28,360
Speaker 10: violation of the emoluments cause you know, maybe it was,

952
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 10: maybe it wasn't.

953
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 3: Courts ultimately decided it wasn't.

954
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 10: But you know, but at least there there was like

955
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 10: some service, There was some pret they were actually getting something.

956
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:38,760
Speaker 10: They were getting a knight in the hotel or whatever.

957
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 10: Now it's like just money compared to I mean the

958
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 10: crypto stuff. It's I mean, I don't know where you

959
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 10: guys stand. I know a little bit about where you

960
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 10: stayed up, but like where your audience stands. Like, but

961
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 10: like it's arguable that like there's there's some value there,

962
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 10: the values in the IV beholder, but certainly like you're

963
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,320
Speaker 10: not getting so you're not getting a physical service or

964
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 10: something like that, that you are literally putting money in

965
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 10: the Trump family's pocket because you believe in them or

966
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 10: you think you can get something out of them.

967
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 3: And we saw this most acutely with World Liberty Financial.

968
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:14,319
Speaker 10: Where Finance and the UAE finance a two billion dollar

969
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 10: deal using World Liberty Financial, and like, what do they

970
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 10: get out of that? They certainly get on Trump's good side.

971
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 10: I mean, we'll see maybe if the deal goes through

972
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,879
Speaker 10: and is a great success, but there's an open question

973
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 10: as to whether they're actually getting something other than the

974
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:32,000
Speaker 10: favor of the president for that two billion dollar investment.

975
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 1: Can please keep it up? Everybody, go and buy the book.

976
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 1: We will have a link down in the description for

977
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 1: you to purchase it. Thank you very much, sir, rely

978
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:39,800
Speaker 1: on you and we thank you.

979
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 3: It's pleasure.

980
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for watching. We appreciate you, guys.

981
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 1: I'll be on with Ryan tomorrow Bro Show, and then

982
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 1: I'll see you all on Thursday.