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Speaker 1: M h. Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast,

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Speaker 1: a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all

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Speaker 1: the small decisions we can make to become the best

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Speaker 1: possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard

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Speaker 1: and Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more

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Speaker 1: information or to find a therapist in your area, visit

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Speaker 1: our website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While

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Speaker 1: I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast,

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Speaker 1: it is not meant to be a substitute for a

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Speaker 1: relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey y'all, thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for joining me for Session Tree of the

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Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girl's podcast. We'll get right into the

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Speaker 1: show after a word from our sponsors. The journey to

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Speaker 1: recovery after substance abuse looks different for everyone, and it's

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Speaker 1: important to find spaces and communities that can support you

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Speaker 1: along the way. Joining us today to chat about what

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Speaker 1: the recovery journey might look like throughout the lifespan is

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Speaker 1: Kristen Fiemster. Kristen is a licensed marriage and family therapist,

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Speaker 1: wellness coach, and the founder of V three based out

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Speaker 1: of Charlotte, North Carolina, with the mission of moving women

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Speaker 1: toward freedom. She offers therapy and wellness programs to support

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Speaker 1: women in shifting unhealthy patterns to create a sustainable lifestyle.

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Speaker 1: Kristen has been sobered for six and a half years

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Speaker 1: and has felt it was important to share her story

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Speaker 1: because there were so few black women sharing about sobriety.

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Speaker 1: When she was looking for resources, Kristen and I chatted

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Speaker 1: about what kinds of things you should pay attention to

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Speaker 1: in your relationship with alcohol to indicate there may be

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Speaker 1: a concern, the importance of recovery options that are culturally responsive,

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Speaker 1: and how we can support friends and loved ones in

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Speaker 1: their recovery. If there's something that resonates with you while

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Speaker 1: enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social media

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Speaker 1: using the hashtag TBG in session. Here's our conversation. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for joining me today, Christen. I'm so

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Speaker 1: excited to chat with you. Yes, thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: I am seriously honored to be here and speaking on

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Speaker 1: the topics. So thanks for having me. Yeah, I was

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Speaker 1: wondering if you could just start by telling us a

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Speaker 1: little bit about your recovery story and the decision to

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Speaker 1: make that a part of your practice. Essentially, I grew

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Speaker 1: up as a child struggle with anxiety. I can identify

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Speaker 1: now when perfectionism from a very young age, and I

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Speaker 1: think that was exasperated by you know, I grew up

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Speaker 1: in a predominantly white environment, community to predominantly white school,

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Speaker 1: and just naturally always felt like I needed to do

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Speaker 1: more and be better and that good wasn't good enough,

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Speaker 1: and that I needed to keep striving and striving for

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Speaker 1: perfection to make it to feel good enough and to

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Speaker 1: be acknowledged and appreciated. And so these are all things

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Speaker 1: that I'm realizing in hindsight. At the time, I didn't

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Speaker 1: really know what was going on why I felt like

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Speaker 1: I was just always, you know, on edge about life

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Speaker 1: and the things that I was involved in. I grew

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Speaker 1: up an athlete. I played basketball, volleyball, ran track. I

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Speaker 1: was a year round athlete of some sort, and so

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Speaker 1: a lot of that worry, lack of confidence insecurity showed

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Speaker 1: up in my sports as well, and so always struggled

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Speaker 1: with that in high school and particularly in college as

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Speaker 1: well when I played basketball. And so where the drinking

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Speaker 1: comes in is that I didn't wait until I was

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Speaker 1: twenty one to start drinking. So that is important to

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Speaker 1: note in my story. I started drinking in high school socially,

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Speaker 1: but still nonetheless drinking before I was of age, and

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Speaker 1: that continued in college. But I would say at certain

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Speaker 1: periods it was normal for whatever, you know, late teens,

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Speaker 1: early twenties would be as far as environment, and I

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Speaker 1: think that's something to speak to as well. Is that

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Speaker 1: normal actually or is that a problem already in the

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Speaker 1: ways that I was drinking. But I started to notice

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Speaker 1: the older I got and the more my um mindset

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Speaker 1: around my capabilities and struggling with confidence and just being

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Speaker 1: anxious in spaces where I know I'm qualified, I know

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Speaker 1: I'm smart, I know I'm capable, but still just feeling

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Speaker 1: like I wasn't good enough. I started to notice relying

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Speaker 1: on drinking more and so outside of the social settings

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Speaker 1: of parties and tailgates and different things like that, and

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Speaker 1: more into my personal life to deal with my emotions.

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Speaker 1: And so this is something that happened slowly. It's not

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Speaker 1: something that I remember the day when it was social

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Speaker 1: and then it went into problem drinking, but it was

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Speaker 1: a gradual reaching out for something to make me feel better,

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Speaker 1: whether it be a heartbreak, whether it be losing a game,

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Speaker 1: whether it be you know, the pressures of all the

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Speaker 1: organizations I was a part of and all that, it

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Speaker 1: just slowly began to be I think I'll have some

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Speaker 1: wine with that over time. What we know about problem

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Speaker 1: drinking is that for a lot of us who have

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Speaker 1: a problem with alcohol, the behaviors that we used to

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Speaker 1: do start out maybe more occasional or far in between.

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Speaker 1: But as you continue drinking, you realize that you start

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Speaker 1: to do things more frequently, drinking more often, and so

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Speaker 1: instead of it being a weekend thing, now it's a

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Speaker 1: Thursday through Sunday thing, or now I'm drinking on Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: because you know, everybody drinks on Wednesdays, and you start

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Speaker 1: to think through all these reasons why you're drinking is

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Speaker 1: okay on any given day. I didn't notice that as

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Speaker 1: much until I graduated college and no longer was a student,

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Speaker 1: no longer was an athlete, and was really just going

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Speaker 1: through an identity crisis of who am I? What was

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Speaker 1: that all for? You know, all those years of trying

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Speaker 1: and striving, What am I doing with my life? Where

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Speaker 1: am I going? Where am I living? What's my career?

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Speaker 1: And what do I do with myself through that. Yet again, well,

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Speaker 1: let me just drink to not think about it or

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Speaker 1: to feel better about it. And so that essentially was

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Speaker 1: more or less the case leading up until I decided

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Speaker 1: to stop drinking at the age of twenty six. But

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Speaker 1: I just began to notice that all of the things

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Speaker 1: that I felt like I had under control, whether it

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Speaker 1: be certain days or a certain amount, or a certain

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Speaker 1: time period or or anything, bit by bit started to

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Speaker 1: no longer matter, and I began to feel out of control.

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Speaker 1: I felt like I was no longer dictating when and

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Speaker 1: how much I would drink, and rather alcohol was starting

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Speaker 1: to control me. And that's when I knew that I

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Speaker 1: become at least psychologically and emotionally dependent, but also maybe

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Speaker 1: even physically dependent at some stages before I stopped. So

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Speaker 1: you bring up so many really great points, Chris, and

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate you sharing that with us, because you've

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Speaker 1: talked about like how drinking is a part of our culture, right,

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Speaker 1: especially like youth culture, right, Like that is what you

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Speaker 1: do when you go to college, and at least that's

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Speaker 1: the thought, right, And so I'm wondering if you can

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Speaker 1: share for people how they might know when drinking has

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Speaker 1: become problematic. It's a spectrum, right if there's so many

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Speaker 1: debates about is alcohol good for us? Is it not?

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Speaker 1: Or can you drink in moderation can you not? And

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Speaker 1: really every person is different, And so sometimes when I'm

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Speaker 1: giving people suggestions or guides for that, I put it

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Speaker 1: out there that you really have to be in tune

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Speaker 1: with yourself because any example, you can rule yourself out

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Speaker 1: of or into, depending on your headspace around it. And

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Speaker 1: so ultimately, if you feel like alcohol is causing you

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Speaker 1: to do, you say, or be things that you don't

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Speaker 1: want to be and that you don't want to do

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Speaker 1: and that aren't true to who you are, then it

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Speaker 1: is a problem. But what that could look like for

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Speaker 1: anybody who's just like I don't know if my behaviors

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Speaker 1: are kind of on the cusp or whatever, but it

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Speaker 1: could look like I'm noticing an increase in the frequency

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Speaker 1: of drinking. So say, oh, well, I used to have

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Speaker 1: one or two drinks on the weekend and that was it,

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Speaker 1: and now I find that I have five at a

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Speaker 1: day party or at an event, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Noticing that increase and not wanting it to be there anymore.

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Speaker 1: You know what I mean or noticing that you're either

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Speaker 1: your tolerance or your frequency, or noticing that you are

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Speaker 1: justifying your drinking. So well, it's okay if I, you know,

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Speaker 1: drink at this because we're at a social gathering. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what's wrong with drinking now when you know that you

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Speaker 1: may not necessarily want to drink at that event or

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Speaker 1: have plans to not drink. I find that a lot

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Speaker 1: of times with clients I work with now is that

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Speaker 1: I go in and I tell myself I'm just gonna

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Speaker 1: have to and the next thing, you know, I've had

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Speaker 1: more than that, and then I don't know where I

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Speaker 1: fell off from my original plan. And so if you

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Speaker 1: have a point where it was like I meant to

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Speaker 1: stay sober or I didn't even really want to drink,

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Speaker 1: that I found myself drinking anyway, that also could be

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Speaker 1: a sign that your relationship with alcohol is is not

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Speaker 1: in the healthiest of spaces. And of course, if sometimes

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Speaker 1: we talk about the consequences that you can start to

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Speaker 1: experience from continue drinking, whether that be severe hangovers that

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Speaker 1: are getting worse. I know that that was something that

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Speaker 1: I started to experience, is that the bounce back the

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Speaker 1: next morning was not what it used to be, and

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Speaker 1: it was a problem. It was getting in the way

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Speaker 1: of studying for the next day, showing up for things

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Speaker 1: the next day, or just canceling things that I would

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Speaker 1: have been at because of the way I physically felt.

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Speaker 1: And so I think that also can be a sign

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Speaker 1: that's actually normalized. You know, the hangover, the Sunday scaryes

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Speaker 1: we call them sometimes, or the Sunday blues from a

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Speaker 1: weekend of drinking, tends to be normalized. But to know

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Speaker 1: that that's not normal to feel that way, and that

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Speaker 1: is our body letting us know, Hey, we did too much,

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Speaker 1: too many toxin in the body. Right now we're sick,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And so I think those

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Speaker 1: are some of the big ones around frequency and tolerance

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Speaker 1: for alcohol, as well as the physical and emotional consequences

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Speaker 1: that come along with it. Yeah, I mean, And there

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Speaker 1: are lots of different pieces that would need to be addressed.

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Speaker 1: And so can you share if I recognize that I

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Speaker 1: do have a problem, right, Like, maybe I don't appreciate

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Speaker 1: my behavior after I've been drinking. I'm noticing that I

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Speaker 1: am drinking way more than I used to. What are

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Speaker 1: some of the next steps, Like what do I do

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Speaker 1: if I discover that I do have a problem with drinking. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: a big part of it is just acknowledgement. So many

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Speaker 1: times we live in a space of denial or just

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Speaker 1: lack of knowledge about what's going on. Some people come

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Speaker 1: from environments where their families drink like that, their parents

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Speaker 1: drink like that, their siblings, and so they don't really

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Speaker 1: notice you know that something is a problem, and so

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Speaker 1: I always apply people because you need that, you need

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Speaker 1: that awareness, you need to it doesn't come with a

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Speaker 1: certain label. I think it's just the acknowledgement that I

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Speaker 1: have a drinking problem is really what I'm looking for,

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Speaker 1: because that shows that we're open and willing to explore

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Speaker 1: what the next steps might be. And so with that

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Speaker 1: next steps I would say is to definitely get connected.

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Speaker 1: I think that that's the most important part of it,

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Speaker 1: because so many times addiction and problems, any of our vices,

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Speaker 1: really happened in secret. You know, it's like nobody knows

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Speaker 1: or the right the same people who do the same

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Speaker 1: thing are the only people that know, and it really

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Speaker 1: keeps us from accessing other supports, other skills, other resources

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Speaker 1: that we might need to actually address the problem. And

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Speaker 1: so I would suggest if there's a support meeting or

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Speaker 1: even a safe person that you know is sober or

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Speaker 1: has mentioned some certain things about their journey with a

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Speaker 1: particular substance or vice that you can reach out to

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Speaker 1: that you feel safe with, I would say that those

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Speaker 1: are some great places to start. And of course you

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Speaker 1: can never get enough of just knowledge around alcoholism addiction

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Speaker 1: just for your own understanding of what's going on with you,

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Speaker 1: because I know so many people struggle with shame and

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Speaker 1: feeling like an addiction is their fault. And I did

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Speaker 1: this on myself, and I should have had more control

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Speaker 1: and discipline to figure this out on my own. And

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Speaker 1: so I think the more knowledge you can have about it,

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Speaker 1: the more you can allow yourself to get the support

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Speaker 1: and resources that you need to really overcome it. Kristin,

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Speaker 1: that brings up an interesting point in wondering if you

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Speaker 1: can say more about And I do feel like there

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Speaker 1: has been some back and forth in the field around

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Speaker 1: like addiction and like genetics, and is this like a

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Speaker 1: thing that is a more biological thing? Is it more

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Speaker 1: social thing? Can you speak to where we are now

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Speaker 1: with the thoughts around addiction? Yeah, I think that the

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Speaker 1: nature nurture debate is going to be one that will

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Speaker 1: always have about certain things. But what we do know

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Speaker 1: and what I'll speak to and what I help my

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Speaker 1: clients with the most is understanding that our environment and

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Speaker 1: the context which we grow up normalizes things, exasperates things, trauma,

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Speaker 1: different things like that play a role in who we become.

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Speaker 1: In the last five to ten years, I would say

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Speaker 1: that the conversation around it doesn't have to be a

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Speaker 1: black or white thing as far as what addiction looks

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Speaker 1: like and what alcoholism is in order for people to

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Speaker 1: want to be sober. I think it's really helped to

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Speaker 1: get less away from is it or like how and

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Speaker 1: the why, instead of realizing there's actually at least thirty

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Speaker 1: different reasons why we are dependent on alcohols in the

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Speaker 1: ways that we are, and it matters to a certain

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Speaker 1: extent why, but it also is more important as to

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Speaker 1: how we move forward with that information and what we

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Speaker 1: do with that. For example, for me, alcoholism does run

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Speaker 1: on one side of my family, and I don't blame

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Speaker 1: my behavior on anyone else's or anything like that. I

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Speaker 1: didn't observe alcoholism as a child. It's just as in

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Speaker 1: my bloodline. But I do think that avoiding hard conversations

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Speaker 1: and reaching outside of ourselves to feel better and having

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Speaker 1: secrets of some sort is a problem in my family.

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Speaker 1: And that all lends itself to oh wow, I have

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Speaker 1: a problem. Who can I talk to about it? Like?

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Speaker 1: What do I do about it? Not really seeing what

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Speaker 1: I need in order to move past that? And I

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Speaker 1: see that as being very important for the ways that

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Speaker 1: we cope and the habits that we develop. Great points there,

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Speaker 1: you know, And I think a part of like just

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Speaker 1: our national conversation just around stuff like managing stress and

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Speaker 1: coping mechanisms, right, Like alcohol often comes up as a

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Speaker 1: part of like, oh, you know, I'm having a bad day,

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Speaker 1: like like you mentioned, like I'll just have a glass

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Speaker 1: of wine, right, I mean, you know, the American Psychological

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Speaker 1: Association has this Stress in America report that they do

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Speaker 1: every year, and so of course last year's results were

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Speaker 1: very telling. So in the twenty twenty Stress in America Report,

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Speaker 1: of adults reported drinking more alcohol to cope with stress

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Speaker 1: during the pandemic then before, right, And I think there

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Speaker 1: are a lots of reasons, of course, that we can

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Speaker 1: understand how that happened. Can you share a little bit

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Speaker 1: more about what has been the impact of the pandemic

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Speaker 1: in people's drinking. Yeah, I definitely would agree with that statistic,

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Speaker 1: if not higher than that. You know, of course, statistics

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Speaker 1: only come from people who self report and acknowledge and

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Speaker 1: are aware that they're drinking. Problems have have increased. But

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Speaker 1: I also think that it's twofold, right. I spoke to

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Speaker 1: earlier about how sometimes we justify and rationalize our drinking

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Speaker 1: habits because of social situations, like, oh, well, I'm drinking

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Speaker 1: this much because I had this on Thursday, this on Friday,

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Speaker 1: this on Saturday, and then brunch on Sunday. So that's

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Speaker 1: four days of drinking that have all been justified by

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Speaker 1: a social outing of some sort. And so when the

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Speaker 1: pandemic happens, but we don't have that event on Thursday,

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Speaker 1: we don't have that engagement on Friday. We don't have

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Speaker 1: those social constructs, and so when you take those away,

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Speaker 1: now it's I'm just drinking. I realized it's blatant, like

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Speaker 1: I still want my wine on Thursday night even though

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Speaker 1: I don't have dinner with friends to go to. And

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Speaker 1: so I think that that has increased people's awareness of

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Speaker 1: their drinking habits that have maybe already been there. But

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Speaker 1: also on the other side of that, we have been

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Speaker 1: collectively under a lot of stress and trauma, whether that

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Speaker 1: be from the pandemic, whether that be from the protests

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Speaker 1: and racial tension in the country, political tension in the country,

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Speaker 1: and not really having the skills to deal with that otherwise,

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Speaker 1: while also getting messages from big alcohol companies say hey, look,

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Speaker 1: this is fun. If you pay attention to commercials, there

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Speaker 1: will be moms with kids and the mom's like they're

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Speaker 1: advertising wine, but it'll be like, you know, moms, you

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Speaker 1: deserve this after a long day. It won't be overt messages.

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Speaker 1: It will usually be a covert placing of a drink

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Speaker 1: or highlighting a drink and a video or something like that.

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Speaker 1: But all those messages we take those in. And so

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Speaker 1: where have we been most of the pandemic. We've been

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Speaker 1: on our phones, We've been watching TV. We've been taking

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Speaker 1: all of that stuff in. And it's not that it

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Speaker 1: happened suddenly, but I do think it plays a role

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Speaker 1: in what we think we have access to to cope,

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Speaker 1: and so on both sides. I think there's already a

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Speaker 1: drinking issue in our country, for sure, but it's also

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Speaker 1: been exasperated by the particular stressors that were under and

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Speaker 1: it's highlighting how we've used alcohol as a crutch in

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Speaker 1: many ways that we didn't realize before. More from my

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Speaker 1: conversation with Kristen after the break, So you mentioned earlier

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Speaker 1: that when you feel like you might have a problem

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Speaker 1: with alcohol, like one of the best things to do

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Speaker 1: is to acknowledge that and to find others that you

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Speaker 1: can connect with. I mean, we know that for black women, right, like,

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Speaker 1: situations and treatment should be culturally specific, right, And so

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Speaker 1: I would just love to hear your take around how

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Speaker 1: you can find those programs and what that looks like

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Speaker 1: when we are talking about black women like going to

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Speaker 1: a recovery program, Like, how would that be tailor to

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Speaker 1: be culturally specific? So I would say that this new

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Speaker 1: space that we're in as far as recovery, I'm taking

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Speaker 1: that in in real time that really only since the

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Speaker 1: pandemic started have I even seen for my own personal

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Speaker 1: recovery spaces that are unique and safe for women of color,

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Speaker 1: black women. And so I think that if we had

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Speaker 1: to find some sort of silver lining with the pandemic,

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Speaker 1: I think that recovery spaces going online has made them

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Speaker 1: one more accessible two different people. You know, to have

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Speaker 1: to acknowledge your drinking problem to an extent that you

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Speaker 1: would physically go to a meeting is different than being

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Speaker 1: able to log on to a virtual meeting with your

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Speaker 1: camera off and just check it out, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. So I think in that sense of the word,

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Speaker 1: recovery is more accessible, or at least people who are sober,

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Speaker 1: is more accessible. And also with that, I've tended and

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Speaker 1: have seen some recovery meetings that are specifically for BIPOC

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Speaker 1: folks to attend, and it creates a safer space to

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Speaker 1: have these conversations around race and around everything that's going on.

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Speaker 1: And I remember when I first got sober, I started

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Speaker 1: going to in person twelve step meetings and it was

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Speaker 1: at the height of Donald Trump's selection. I mean, it

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Speaker 1: was really tense. And I'm in the Carolina, so we're

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Speaker 1: down in the South, and you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: It's just just tense. And I remember feeling so isolated

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Speaker 1: because there is a element of not talking about outside

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Speaker 1: issues in those twelve step spaces, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: I have no idea where to take this information and

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Speaker 1: this weight that I feel and the frustration of just

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Speaker 1: today like I don't feel like I can talk about it.

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Speaker 1: And then also I'm looking at people who don't look

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Speaker 1: like me. I don't even know if it's safe for

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Speaker 1: me to even bring that up. And so that was

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Speaker 1: a pretty big deal the first couple of years. But

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Speaker 1: I say that to say that now there are those

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Speaker 1: spaces that are popping up now where you can log

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Speaker 1: onto a meeting and see nothing but beautiful brown women

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Speaker 1: staring back at you from all over the world, even

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Speaker 1: um to give you that support to say yes, I

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Speaker 1: see you, Yes I hear you, and need to you know.

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Speaker 1: And so off the top of my head, she recovers

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Speaker 1: has a Black Women Only a recovery meeting that they

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Speaker 1: host at least once a week that I know about.

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Speaker 1: It's a great space. It's led by a recovery coach,

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Speaker 1: so you can get some really good information and support

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Speaker 1: there as well, but also other women from all across

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Speaker 1: the world that are trying to get and stay sober

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Speaker 1: at a time like this. And then also Sober Black

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Speaker 1: Girls Club is an Instagram page and they also have

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Speaker 1: several recovery meetings throughout the week for this very same reason,

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Speaker 1: to give us a space to just say I'm black

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Speaker 1: and I'm struggling, and I have a drinking problem, and

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Speaker 1: I don't know where else to go to talk about

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Speaker 1: all these things together. But in those spaces you have

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Speaker 1: people that are looking back at you and have been there.

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Speaker 1: It really makes all the difference. Yeah, I'm sure. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, because the whole premise around like a A

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Speaker 1: is that, like it's supposed to be anonymous, right, And

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Speaker 1: you know, if you are like a black woman in

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Speaker 1: the South where there might not be a lot of

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Speaker 1: like other people who look like you, like, are you

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Speaker 1: really anonymous? Right? Like I feel like there is this

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Speaker 1: sense that your anonymity may not be protected in the

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Speaker 1: same way as someone else who is not a black

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Speaker 1: woman in the group. Absolutely, you just spoke to my

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Speaker 1: story right from the jump. That's exactly how it was.

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Speaker 1: You know. I remember walking into some TWIST meetings at

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Speaker 1: the beginning and I couldn't understand, like I would have

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Speaker 1: to call another sober friend and have them talk me

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Speaker 1: through walking into the room, and they could not, and

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Speaker 1: most of them white, all of them white, actually, they

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Speaker 1: could not understand why it was just so hard. They're like,

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Speaker 1: you know, everybody there has a drinking problem too. It's

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Speaker 1: not that they could deal. You know, no one's gonna

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Speaker 1: go back and share your information with anyone. And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I know, I didn't have the words for it at

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Speaker 1: the time, but it just was so hard for me

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Speaker 1: to get through and to attend meetings at first. And

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Speaker 1: it was because i would be the only black person

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Speaker 1: in the room and I'm six foot tall fro you know,

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Speaker 1: there is no blending in and like kind of just

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Speaker 1: sliding in the back door and just kind of see

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Speaker 1: there's like, whoa, there's this new black woman in our meeting.

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Speaker 1: Who are you? It came from a genuine place, I

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Speaker 1: would say. I don't think anybody was out to like

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Speaker 1: point me out, but it definitely did not feel anonymous

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Speaker 1: to me, you know. So yeah, that's definitely a big factor.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. Yeah. So can you say more about something

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Speaker 1: else that happens in like this twelve step programs, is

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Speaker 1: that like you will typically get matched with a sponsor,

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Speaker 1: right or like find a sponsor. What kinds of things

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Speaker 1: should you look into to figure out like who's gonna

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Speaker 1: be like the right sponsor for you? So for me,

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Speaker 1: when I first went into twelfth Step I knew that

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Speaker 1: my first priority was that I didn't have a anybody

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Speaker 1: really that could support me in the ways that I

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00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,400
Speaker 1: needed to be supported as far as just not drinking.

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Speaker 1: And so my initial decision was made out of I

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Speaker 1: need someone that I can depend on to pick up

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Speaker 1: the phone, to talk me through these stages and really

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Speaker 1: just give me that support. I didn't have the option

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Speaker 1: really to choose a black sponsor at the time. I

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Speaker 1: didn't in that particular meeting when I made the decision,

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Speaker 1: there was no one there, and I just went with

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Speaker 1: who was there. And so I think that this is

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Speaker 1: a very nuanced thing because it's like, do you wait

434
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,479
Speaker 1: and get that support once you find, you know, another

435
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,760
Speaker 1: black person to walk you through the steps or just

436
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,640
Speaker 1: to be your sponsor, or do you make the decision

437
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,679
Speaker 1: that hey, I need help right now today and to

438
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,040
Speaker 1: let me go with what I have and then hopefully

439
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 1: be able to transition. There's a lot of different factors

440
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 1: that that depends on. I would say, but if it's

441
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:57,640
Speaker 1: possible to find someone that can relate to you culturally, racially,

442
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 1: that sort of thing that will help ease your recovery experience,

443
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,360
Speaker 1: if at all possible, I would say yeah, absolutely, look

444
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: for someone who is also black and in recovery however

445
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 1: you may identify. And the recovery programs that I mentioned

446
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,920
Speaker 1: to you earlier, they do have those supports in place naturally,

447
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 1: But even for people who are in person, I would say,

448
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: be very mindful of not waiting for that person to

449
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 1: come because alcohol, it is an addiction and it will

450
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 1: make it hard for you to stay sober to not

451
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: have that support. But also if there's an opportunity, I

452
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: would say, jump on it for sure. Something that happened

453
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 1: to me with my sponsor is that it worked for

454
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 1: a while, and I'll say this is kind of how

455
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 1: recovery changes over time. It worked for us to stick

456
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 1: with the issues, help me stay sober, rebuild my life,

457
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,159
Speaker 1: you know, go through the steps all of that. But

458
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: then there was like at the two or three year mark,

459
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 1: I realized that I was in a space where I

460
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: needed more and that's okay too, And so I remember

461
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 1: having a conversation with her to say everything she had

462
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,400
Speaker 1: done for me. I genuinely appreciated that we had come

463
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 1: to the end of our relationship. I just knew that

464
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 1: the issues I was dealing with at that point, we're

465
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: a little bit more specific, and that's when I broke

466
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: off into exploring some of these other recovery spaces to

467
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,679
Speaker 1: to help myself. The virtual ones weren't available at that time,

468
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: but that is when I started exploring what really should

469
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: my recovery look like, how can I make this last

470
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: long term? And it's not just staying right here. I've

471
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: got to look for more and try to find more.

472
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 1: M hm. Can you say more about like how somebody

473
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 1: might know? Because it sounds a lot like working with

474
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 1: the therapist, right Like, there comes a point and at

475
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 1: some point where you know you're working with a therapist

476
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: for some time and you've done great work, but you realize, like, okay,

477
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,919
Speaker 1: this person can't take me to this NIXT please. So

478
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 1: what kinds of question should someone ask to kind of

479
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 1: determine whether they should stick with the sponsor or whether

480
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,159
Speaker 1: it may be time to like break up so to

481
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 1: speak with death sponsor and maybe find somebody else. How

482
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: would you know? I would say, do I feel like,

483
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: with the information I have about myself right now, can

484
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 1: I be fully honest with them? And so when I

485
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: was early on in recovery, to the best of my knowledge,

486
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: I was being honest about the things I was dealing with.

487
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 1: But as you heal and as you grow, you realize

488
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,959
Speaker 1: deeper things or other things start to come to the

489
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 1: surface that then I also need to process and get

490
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 1: support around. And so when I felt hesitant to call,

491
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: or felt like I couldn't really give a full update

492
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 1: on my day, or I felt like I couldn't really

493
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 1: run a certain issue by my sponsor, then I started

494
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: to realize, Okay, if I can't be completely authentic and

495
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 1: honest with this person, then I need something else in

496
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,160
Speaker 1: addition to that, you know. And so that's an option too.

497
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: It may not be a breaking up with your sponsor

498
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: and then just exploring your other options. It might be

499
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: a little bit of both. But for me, I was

500
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 1: pretty well into the twelfth Step life and felt like

501
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: I needed something else branching out. And so for me,

502
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: that looked like getting on the sober women hashtag on

503
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 1: Instagram and looking up other solver black women and saying

504
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 1: hey to them, you know, And that kind of helped

505
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 1: me before I actually ended things with my sponsor, kind

506
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: of helped me realize, Uh, that's what it is, that's

507
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: what I was missing, that's what I needed more of

508
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: and so it kind of overlapped. It wasn't like I

509
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 1: knew it, broke up with her and then moved on.

510
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: It was kind of like, through the exploration, I realized,

511
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: I need other black women that are doing this in

512
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 1: the ways that I'm having to do it. And so

513
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: let me add that in do I feel safe? Do

514
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: I feel like I can be open and honest and

515
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 1: authentic with these women? Yes? I do now sponsor, thank you,

516
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,199
Speaker 1: this has been an amazing you know, and had that

517
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 1: conversation with her, and she understood that I needed to

518
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: do that for myself. So so I want to talk

519
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 1: a little bit about media portrayals of alcoholism, because you know,

520
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 1: we've already talked about like how some of that impacts us, right,

521
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,959
Speaker 1: even what people think are subtle messages definitely impacts us.

522
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: And we get ideas about that. And more recently we

523
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 1: have seen varying degrees of like alcoholism and some shows

524
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 1: like Euphoria, how to Get Away with Murder, and most recently,

525
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,199
Speaker 1: or at least the most recent depiction I've seen in

526
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: Treatment on HBO, right, which is a show about a

527
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 1: therapist and her clients. Right, And so I just love

528
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,880
Speaker 1: to hear like any thoughts you have about maybe those

529
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: shows are others in terms of like what you feel

530
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: like they've really got right about portraying alcoholism and you

531
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 1: know treatment. Yeah, I've seen Euphoria, I've seen How to

532
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: get Away with Murder and All American. Actually I've watched recently.

533
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: It's another series with an addiction storyline with one of

534
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: the young teens in that show. And I think that

535
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: I see myself in all of them. I see the superwoman,

536
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 1: you know. When you think about Viola Davis and How

537
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: to get Away with Murder, her job was super stressful.

538
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: She was trying to hold it all together. There was

539
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: so many things going on, and those are the reasons

540
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: why we reached for that relief of a drink. Is

541
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: to have a ache and to cope and to keep

542
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 1: showing up. And I just I can't remember, you know,

543
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: episodes or seasons in particular, but I just remember seeing

544
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: scenes of her trying to deal with the stressors of

545
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: the day when she would come home and it was

546
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: and it worked for a while, and then it started

547
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: to spill over into her work, you know, and it

548
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 1: started to backfire. And I think that is an accurate

549
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: depiction of how alcoholism or even just drinking problems in general,

550
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:30,239
Speaker 1: how they tolerance increases, the frequency goes up, and you

551
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: start to experience those more severe consequences. And so I

552
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: do appreciate seeing that more in the storylines because I

553
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 1: think it helps women like myself, for someone who's not

554
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: even where they are really realizing their drinking problem, are

555
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: ready to acknowledge it, they can at least see a

556
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: different option. And I think that representation is so important

557
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 1: for when I log onto whatever social media or if

558
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: I watch a show, to see that I'm not the

559
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: only one and that there's a recover, re option available,

560
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 1: like I can see that happening. And then also for

561
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: some of them, you kind of get the understanding of

562
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: where they're drinking came from, which helps you have compassion.

563
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: You know, we're so hard on ourselves and we think

564
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: that I caused this on myself, when really, you know,

565
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: with euphoria, she had all kinds of trauma that was

566
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 1: from her experience in childhood that was fueling that, And

567
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: the same for all the other storylines. And so if

568
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: I can have compassion for these characters and see how

569
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: they got to where they are, surely I can have

570
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: compassion for myself and give myself that grace to go

571
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: get help and support. I need to really be well

572
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, you know, Kristen. As I'm thinking about it,

573
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: it feels similar to how historically we didn't necessarily think

574
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: about black women as it was related to eating disorders, right, Like,

575
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: for a long time it felt like, oh, that's not

576
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: something black girl struggle with, right, And it feels like

577
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: maybe you to a lesser extent, it was the same

578
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: thing with substance abuse, right that you didn't necessarily hear

579
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: about this being a problem for black women with of course,

580
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: this is something that we have struggled with, whether we

581
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: needed it that or not exactly. Yeah, And historically, just

582
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: thinking about you know, just the medical field in general, like,

583
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: it wasn't okay for us to struggle with that for

584
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: a very long time. We had to keep it together.

585
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: There wasn't a supportive, non judgmental space for us to

586
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: go to to acknowledge those things, and so eat for

587
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 1: black women and even for our community in general, we

588
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 1: go in word and we say, well, we'll just keep

589
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 1: it in house, we'll just figure it out some other

590
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: kind of way, and then that turns into stigma around who,

591
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: what does certain disorders, what do they look like, and

592
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: who gets to quote unquote gets to have them or not.

593
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: And it can be very damaging to to our community

594
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: to believe that because we go without acknowledgement and it

595
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:53,479
Speaker 1: repeats the generational patterns and then the problem grows. And

596
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: so yes, I do think that has been a challenge

597
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: for us with food as well, with eating disource as well.

598
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: The same thing and that it's okay and it's okay

599
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: you're not you're not abnormal. It's okay that you struggle

600
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: with that. Let's see what it would look like to

601
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: heal and get better from that, you know more from

602
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: my conversation with Kristen after the break. So a lot

603
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: of times I think what happens with stuff like substance

604
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: abuse in drinking, you know, friends and loved ones sometimes

605
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: recognize that there is a concern, maybe before the person does.

606
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: So can you share a little bit about how we

607
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 1: might be able to support a friend or a loved

608
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: one who is struggling with recovery. I think the most

609
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: important part is to make sure that you're a safe place.

610
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: And I think that sometimes we want to express concern

611
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: and because it feels urgent to us. We come out

612
00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: with maybe a strong energy around it, make demand sometimes

613
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: you know, out of concern, but it's not as gentle

614
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: as as it may need to be. And so I

615
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 1: always say that how are you living your day to

616
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: day life and relationship with that person to show that

617
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: you're a safe space for them to acknowledge something that's

618
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: so difficult to even acknowledge within yourself that or yet

619
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: much less you know another person. And so for me

620
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: and my journey, that looked like who would push alcohol

621
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: on me in different social settings or not before I

622
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 1: stop drinking, but who would encourage me to drink? And

623
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: who would just kind of let me make my own

624
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: decisions about whether I drink or not. Who would I

625
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: do other fun things with outside of just drinking. Who

626
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: did I have that type of relationship with. How did

627
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: I see them interact with other people around mental health

628
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: struggles and addiction? Did I hear them show care and

629
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: compassion or did I hear them show judgment and and

630
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: play stereotypes on that person? So I would say, first

631
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: and foremost, make sure you're a safe person in the

632
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: ways that you are in relationship with that person In general,

633
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: and then from there. I think there are some ways

634
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: to express concern in a gentle way, and what we

635
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: know about addiction is sometimes you can we can get

636
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 1: into defending our addictions, being very reactive if someone brings

637
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 1: up a drinking problem, and so knowing that, going in

638
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 1: and finding some gentle ways to express concern that are

639
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 1: without judgment as much as possible, I think is a

640
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: helpful way, um to start the conversation, and then also

641
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 1: educating yourself on what this means, what this looks like,

642
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 1: what you can due to influence the situation, and what

643
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 1: ultimately is out of your control. I think it's helpful.

644
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: I've spent some years as a family therapist at some

645
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: treatment centers, and a lot of our work was around

646
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 1: knowing what they could and couldn't do for their loved one.

647
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 1: And so so many parents with their kids, they're like

648
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: they want them to be sober more than they're try.

649
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: I would want to be sober even if they're an

650
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,240
Speaker 1: adult child. They would still you know, enable in certain ways,

651
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: and we'll pay for this, and we'll pay for that.

652
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: Just go to treatment, and you know, like all the

653
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 1: different ways that they would try to support them. They

654
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 1: thought they were supporting them, but really it was just

655
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: enabling the situation. So my role with them was just

656
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 1: to talk about what does it look like to have

657
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: healthy boundaries and almost at some points detached, detached from

658
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 1: needing to know and be in control of the situation.

659
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 1: Which is very hard and painful for us to do

660
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: is to see someone else suffering and feel like we

661
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 1: have to completely detach from watching them do so. But

662
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: in actuality is very important for the family or loved

663
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: ones recovery as well. You know, you have the person

664
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: with the drinking problem that has their own recovery, but

665
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: also the support and family for for that person also

666
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: have their own recovery process, and so boundaries is another

667
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 1: part of that work and realizing what am I responsible for?

668
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,240
Speaker 1: What am I not responsible for? How can I influence

669
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 1: the situation without making it my responsibility to do the

670
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: work for them? I think a lot of times, like

671
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: after a friend has decided like they are going to

672
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: be sober, right, there is the this awkwardness around, like, okay,

673
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: do we not have alcohol at the functions anymore? Like, so,

674
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 1: what kinds of practical things can people really do to

675
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: help a friend who might be sober? I think that

676
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 1: because we see drinking problems as being taboo, even though

677
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: we're trying to work on, you know, making it a

678
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: more normal thing to address and deal with. Sometimes we

679
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 1: think that asking the person and recovery what they need,

680
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:36,719
Speaker 1: it's kind of like, oh, I gotta figure it out

681
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 1: on my own and then hopefully it won't trigger them

682
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: or hopefully it's what they need, instead of just saying

683
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 1: what does that mean for you? What can I do

684
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 1: to support you? What feels comfortable to you? And with

685
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: every person it's going to be different. You know. I

686
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,240
Speaker 1: know some people that are not bothered by other people

687
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,800
Speaker 1: drinking around them, or some people who drink non alcoholic

688
00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: beverages instead of alcoholic beverages, and then some people who

689
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: are like, I can't be around it at all. I've

690
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: got to completely, like start with the clean slate of

691
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 1: friends and people, places and things. And so really for

692
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 1: each person it's going to be different. So first and foremost,

693
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: I would say it's okay to not guess, and it's

694
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 1: okay to not know, and so ask them what would

695
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 1: be the most supportive for you right now, and know

696
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 1: that that may change a year from now, may not

697
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 1: be such an urgent cravings and that sort of thing,

698
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: and they may be able to be in certain spaces

699
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: and be okay, but it really depends. And some of

700
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 1: the things that usually are things that need to be

701
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 1: adapted would be can this person be around alcohol in general?

702
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: Would they prefer to not to have a sober or

703
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,879
Speaker 1: dry wedding or a sober activity, and if so, being

704
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 1: the friend that's okay with that, because I think sometimes

705
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 1: we're afraid that our friends aren't gonna wanna make any

706
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: adjustments for us or sacrifice for us, so that it's

707
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: gonna be burdensome to ask. You know, my friend grew

708
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: to opt for something else other than the wine tasting

709
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 1: and the paintents, you know what I mean. And so

710
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 1: anytime you can just say, hey, I have plans for

711
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 1: us and it just naturally doesn't include alcohol, that is

712
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: the best because it's like you don't even have to

713
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 1: like worry about it. We're going hiking, you know, don't

714
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 1: have anything to do with alcohol. I think that's a

715
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 1: great way to do that. And also to be supportive

716
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: when they share with you. And so if someone says

717
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: I think I have a drinking problem and I wanted

718
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 1: to let you know. That means that they trust you,

719
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 1: and that means that they need your support. And so

720
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: I can't count how many times what a drinking problem?

721
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 1: Now you don't and it's like, but I'm telling you

722
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 1: that I do, and I need your support, you know,

723
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,359
Speaker 1: in that moment. And so I think that's something that

724
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 1: folks can know. It's just if someone tells you that

725
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 1: accept them, love them. How can I support you? That's awesome,

726
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 1: that's great, that's great. I would love to support you

727
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 1: in doing that. What do you need for me? I

728
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 1: think it's a great way. M m yeah. You know.

729
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 1: Boundary where Kristen, I think is important in so many

730
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 1: different areas of like healing, right, but it seems like

731
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: it would be particularly important here, especially if you are

732
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 1: working to maintain your sobriety around like Okay, no, I

733
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 1: can't be in that kind of a situation, or please

734
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: don't invite me to these kinds of things, or even

735
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: like you just mentioned right, like if I say I

736
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: have a drinking problem, what does that bring up for

737
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 1: other people who maybe drink as much as I was? Right,

738
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 1: so now, because it feel like an indictment, and so

739
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 1: it feels like there needs to be some real boundary

740
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: work as a part of this recovery as well. Can

741
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 1: you say more about that? Yeah, I think that you know,

742
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 1: recovery is a beautiful, beautiful journey. I wouldn't trade mind

743
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 1: for the world, and I know so many women that,

744
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 1: even through the ups and downs, find it to be

745
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,439
Speaker 1: worth it. But some of that can be hard. It's

746
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,839
Speaker 1: because not everybody is ready to do what you need

747
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: them to do or what you would have them do

748
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: to support your recovery. And sometimes that does mean seeing

749
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 1: people less, it does bowing out of certain things based

750
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: on the day you've had. Like for me, if I've

751
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 1: had a rough week and it's not that I'm going

752
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 1: to go out and drink, but I just know mentally

753
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: and emotionally I've had a draining week, I tend to

754
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:16,240
Speaker 1: not put myself. Even at six almost seven years sober,

755
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: I may opt out of going to the party with

756
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 1: the friends just because I know that I don't need that.

757
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 1: I don't need that extra stressor on me. Sometimes, you know,

758
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: you do have to end friendships or distance yourself from

759
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:34,359
Speaker 1: certain people in order to protect your recovery. And there's

760
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: a grieving process with that, you know. But I think

761
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 1: that in recovery, you can come to have closure with

762
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: that and have peace around having to make those decisions,

763
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 1: because not everyone's going to be in a place where

764
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: they can support you in the ways that you need

765
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 1: to be supported, and it is very important that you

766
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: handle and manage your triggers people, places, and things, and

767
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 1: sometimes those people are once closest to you, and so

768
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: having those calm stations can be hard but very necessary. Yeah,

769
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,800
Speaker 1: which is why going back to the original points around

770
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:10,280
Speaker 1: why building this new community of people is so important,

771
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 1: right because there may be a loss of some other

772
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: people who can't support you in the ways that you

773
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 1: need to. Absolutely. Yeah, So you've already given us quite

774
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: a few great resources, Kristen, But I wonder if there

775
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 1: are any other books or podcasts or communities that you

776
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,839
Speaker 1: think people should check out that might support them if

777
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: they're looking for sober resources. Yes, so, I would say, honestly,

778
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 1: the best one that I know is searching the sober

779
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: Black Women hashtag on Instagram. I know a lot of

780
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: women black women that use that. There's a lot of

781
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,240
Speaker 1: accounts that I found from that. It's a great resource.

782
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 1: She recovers dot org. They're not a BIPOC specific group,

783
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 1: but they do have some meetings that are specifically for

784
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: BIPOC and so you can get connected there. So we

785
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: Black Girls Club is another. I think their website is

786
00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:59,919
Speaker 1: just Sober Black Girls Club dot com, but they also

787
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,320
Speaker 1: have an Instagram. They host meetings several times a week.

788
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 1: And what is your website, christ and as well as

789
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 1: any social media handles you'd like to share. My website

790
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 1: is B three, so the letter be the number three

791
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: by Kristen dot com. And my Instagram handle is just

792
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: my name at Kristen Fimster. And so if you go

793
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 1: to my website, I do have a resources tab that

794
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: has a list of other meetings. They're not all specifically

795
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 1: for black women or people of color, but there is

796
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 1: a resource to get started, Like you mentioned podcasts and

797
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,359
Speaker 1: recovery meetings and that sort of thing to just get

798
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 1: the ball rolling. And then all you have to do

799
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 1: is just get your foot in the door in one

800
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 1: of these spaces. You don't have to have all the

801
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 1: answers to start. You just need to open the door

802
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 1: and let someone else help you to guide you along.

803
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,840
Speaker 1: And so anything that you can have where it's person

804
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 1: to person contact, I think will be the best bet

805
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 1: for moving forward with this and then growing from there perfect. Well,

806
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 1: thank you so much, christ and I really appreciate you

807
00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: sharing so much with us today. Thank you, Thank you

808
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 1: are having me. I'm so glad that Kristen was able

809
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 1: to share her expertise with us today. To learn more

810
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 1: about her and her work, visit the show notes at

811
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash Session two to three,

812
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: and don't forget to text two of your girls and

813
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: tell them to check out the episode right now. If

814
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: you're looking for a therapist in your area, be sure

815
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 1: to check out our therapist directory at Therapy for Black

816
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 1: Girls dot com slash directory. And if you want to

817
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,320
Speaker 1: continue digging into this topic or just be in community

818
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 1: with other sisters, come on over and join us in

819
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 1: the Sister Circle. It's our cozy corner of the Internet

820
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 1: design just for black women. You can join us at

821
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 1: community dot Therapy for Black Girls dot com. Thank you

822
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 1: all so much for joining me again this week. I

823
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 1: look forward to continue in this conversation with you all

824
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 1: real soon. Take good care,