Speaker 1: Hi guys, Hi guys, it's Jackie and Jen Fessler. I
Speaker 1: always say Jen Fessler, well, because there's also another gen. Well,
Speaker 1: not this room and not on this post, on this podcast.
Speaker 2: But I think you're used to being in our I
Speaker 2: guess work family with another gen.
Speaker 1: So fair enough, whatever you are, Jen Fesler on that baby.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we are two Jersey Jays. We have a
Speaker 2: really really great shophy you today. I'm so excited.
Speaker 1: But but but first, before that, we can't just ignore
Speaker 1: the large not even a pink elephant? Is it a
Speaker 1: black elephant?
Speaker 2: And I don't know it's pink elephant in the room
Speaker 2: a thing. I think. I don't think that's a thing.
Speaker 2: I think it's just the elephant in the room. What
Speaker 2: don't think it's a pink elephant.
Speaker 1: Anyway, I've talked about the trailer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the trailer. Can I tell you something. This is
Speaker 2: my sixth year, my sixth trailer drop.
Speaker 1: I thought it was more than that. Are you sure now?
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is my sixth year and I still get
Speaker 2: a pit in my stomach.
Speaker 1: I think you're the only one because I was besides me,
Speaker 1: I was like really nervous about it and I felt
Speaker 1: like no nobody else was.
Speaker 2: No, I don't think I'm the only one.
Speaker 1: There's no way because we see it.
Speaker 2: When everyone else sees it. They don't send us the
Speaker 2: trailer first. You know why they don't send us the
Speaker 2: trailer first, I think is because in years past it's leaked,
Speaker 2: like there's there's no way to get this trailer and
Speaker 2: keep it all to yourself, right, you know, so it's leaked,
Speaker 2: and so I think to avoid that, they don't send
Speaker 2: it to anybody anymore. So we see it when the
Speaker 2: world sees it. So if something is you know, if
Speaker 2: they put in a part about like something that you
Speaker 2: can consider really embarrassing, it's over.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I actually watched it. I wouldn't watch it.
Speaker 1: I wanted Jeff to watch it, and well, Rachel, my daughter,
Speaker 1: watched it. And then, like you know, a couple of
Speaker 1: our PR people or whatever, I was like, I have
Speaker 1: to just know what I'm going to be staring at.
Speaker 1: I think that the nerves for me, so I was
Speaker 1: trying to figure it out. I guess I was. Maybe
Speaker 1: I was more nervous last year, but because it was
Speaker 1: my first season. But it's this thing where you know,
Speaker 1: after the last season, my response at least, I felt
Speaker 1: like the response that I got was is mainly positive.
Speaker 1: Of course, nobody's ever gonna you're never gonna get everybody
Speaker 1: liking you. There's always gonna be haters. But basically I
Speaker 1: got a lot of love. I got a lot of like,
Speaker 1: you know, nice sort of like Gen you're funny, Gen
Speaker 1: You're you know, a breath of fresh air like this
Speaker 1: really nice feedback. Again, not all good feedback, but I
Speaker 1: when you're in that place where you're coming from, Okay, Wow,
Speaker 1: I did good for me, and I fight this. I'm
Speaker 1: just waiting for the fall. So I'm nervous that I'm gonna,
Speaker 1: you know, not just the trailer, but watch the season,
Speaker 1: and nobody's gonna like me.
Speaker 2: I think that's natural, but I don't think that's true.
Speaker 2: I think you're me. It's not just funny, and.
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe not maybe the season I won't
Speaker 1: be well liked, but like that's this is just a
Speaker 1: whole separate issue. But watching it, I think that's why
Speaker 1: I'm nervous. It's like I want everybody to like me,
Speaker 1: and like, regardless, yeah, not everybody's going to and maybe
Speaker 1: people want this season I have to like, but if
Speaker 1: you are in a good place with yourself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you're also in a pretty good place with everybody.
Speaker 1: Like I know, it's not even just that though, because
Speaker 1: you can be in a good place with Cass and
Speaker 1: still you're.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. Did you like the trailer.
Speaker 1: I thought it was funny. I thought it was light,
Speaker 1: but it was also like I think, I thought it
Speaker 1: dropped those little like tidbits very well in those little
Speaker 1: little spoilers and teasers. Yeah, Like if I was a
Speaker 1: y yar, i'd want to be excited for this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which also gives me like anxiety because now I
Speaker 2: like want people to see how everything happens, because now
Speaker 2: people are you know, oh, Jackie, you know is doing
Speaker 2: things too. First of all, let me clear up something
Speaker 2: the whole Jackie is doing, you know, switching teams to
Speaker 2: save her job. Okay, I am very very clear on
Speaker 2: the fact that I am a friend, Like I am
Speaker 2: not like delusional, like I know what my job is.
Speaker 2: I'm a friend, and I am fully okay with that.
Speaker 2: Like took a little bit, but I am fully okay
Speaker 2: with it. I like it. Like it's not to say
Speaker 2: like that I wouldn't be open to other things, but
Speaker 2: like I like it, and I know I don't need
Speaker 2: to jump teams and you know, jump through hoops and
Speaker 2: you know, set myself on fire to save my job.
Speaker 2: Like I can just be like a good supporting actor,
Speaker 2: like I'm good, you know, Like I don't think that
Speaker 2: I have to go crazy to save my job. So
Speaker 2: nothing that I do is based on, oh god, I
Speaker 2: have to be the best friend in the whole world
Speaker 2: in order to save my job. And I actually don't
Speaker 2: think it really works like that. I don't think if I,
Speaker 2: like have a really big part of the season that
Speaker 2: next season, like I would be a housewife. I think actually,
Speaker 2: if I'm a fantastic friend, it's even you know, more
Speaker 2: reason for them to say, Okay, great, say a friend. Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I saw Marisol say on the reunion maybe it was
Speaker 1: last night, No, no, she's being interviewed anyway, and they
Speaker 1: were asking her like, do you are you okay? Maybe
Speaker 1: it's even Hammer and Teddy Like yeah, I think it
Speaker 1: was Teddy, how do you feel about being a friend?
Speaker 1: Do you want to be, you know, a house wife?
Speaker 1: What do they hold a mahido? Yeah or whatever? So
Speaker 1: She's like, well, I mean I'd like to be paid
Speaker 1: like a housewife, but like it sounds like she was
Speaker 1: absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2: But I think that people don't want to believe that
Speaker 2: because like I think that there's this like this misconception
Speaker 2: of like how could you not want it all? Like
Speaker 2: how could you not want all the fame and all
Speaker 2: the spotlight and all the money?
Speaker 1: You like, those sometimes forget this is we're getting off
Speaker 1: on a tank. But like, don't you feel like as
Speaker 1: a friend you forget like factor out money or anything else,
Speaker 1: but like you kind of do get it all in
Speaker 1: a different way, Like and I know you have spoken
Speaker 1: to me specifically about like opening up your home and
Speaker 1: your family to cameras, you know, and now the difference
Speaker 1: you know, not having to do that and still being
Speaker 1: able to be involved is you know, like a gift
Speaker 1: it is, and.
Speaker 2: You know it's also I mean, there's great stuff on
Speaker 2: both sides. If it happens again for me, like I'm
Speaker 2: sure my family would be open to it, But it's
Speaker 2: much easier for me now to film the show, to
Speaker 2: give it everything that I have, and to not have
Speaker 2: to say to my family, hey, cancel all your plans.
Speaker 2: You have to be home to film the scene, or
Speaker 2: to say to Evan, you don't have to come to
Speaker 2: this today, do you want to come? And sometimes he
Speaker 2: really wants to come. But when he doesn't want to come,
Speaker 2: or when he has work, like I don't have to
Speaker 2: make him skip anything, he doesn't have to be involved.
Speaker 2: And for me, that works for me right now, right now,
Speaker 2: that works for me. But speaking of husbands being involved,
Speaker 2: I am strongly of the opinion that I know Jersey
Speaker 2: husbands have a bigger role than in other franchises, but
Speaker 2: don't I don't love seeing husbands so heavily involved in
Speaker 2: the drama. I don't like when husbands fight with wives.
Speaker 1: I don believe this is all you baby, go right right.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, like, when Evan was very heavily involved
Speaker 2: in the drama, which he did not want any part of,
Speaker 2: he never fought with anybody on camera. He never yelled anybody.
Speaker 2: He's never fought with anyone. It's just not his style.
Speaker 2: He never yelled at anybody. He never you know. And
Speaker 2: when it was time to resolve that drauma, he was
Speaker 2: such a gentleman. He was very open to it and
Speaker 2: he just wanted things to go back to common. You know,
Speaker 2: when I'm saying like I don't love seeing husbands like
Speaker 2: really put themselves right in the center. This is a
Speaker 2: show for your wife.
Speaker 1: Well, j Listen Jersey has traditionally been known right as
Speaker 1: like this, we are the family franchise. Yeah, of course
Speaker 1: it's everybody's involved, and of course you know Joe Gorga
Speaker 1: has made such an impact.
Speaker 2: Yes, and he's maybe a little dire, but he also
Speaker 2: he doesn't like I don't know, maybe maybe Joe Gorga
Speaker 2: is different, but like the other husbands, I don't really
Speaker 2: feel like like they are definitely present. And that's great
Speaker 2: and I love the husbands on this show them, but
Speaker 2: I don't like seeing a husband actively like go after
Speaker 2: a wife. But that's just me.
Speaker 1: We don't worry about Jeff Fessler. I don't think he's
Speaker 1: he loves, he loves all of this, which everybody like,
Speaker 1: no one can really understand or believe. Jeff's so I'm
Speaker 1: so a nice crazy housewife person. But you're never gonna
Speaker 1: have to worry about him fighting with anyone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I thought the trailer was great. I am
Speaker 2: eager for people to see how everything comes about, because
Speaker 2: there's no part of it that's about me, like trying
Speaker 2: to save my job, like, I'm sure my job is fine.
Speaker 2: I just you know, like it does happen very organically
Speaker 2: and hasn't this hit but historically been on the show
Speaker 2: for so long, don't people always look at like want
Speaker 2: to know your motive and it's not maybe what your
Speaker 2: actual motive is, like are and people you tell me, oh,
Speaker 2: there's so many theories, but you know, so I watch it.
Speaker 2: I actually had to pull over because I was driving
Speaker 2: when it when it dropped, and uh, I said to Aiden,
Speaker 2: I was taking it into a doctor's appointment. I said,
Speaker 2: do you mind if I pull over and watch this
Speaker 2: because the anticipation was just killing me. And after I
Speaker 2: watched it the first time and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm totally fine with the way I'm portrayed in the trailer.
Speaker 2: Then I watched it a second time to see how
Speaker 2: I look physically in the trailer, and I'm gorgeous. I'm like,
Speaker 2: my face is all hot and red. I'm like, I'm
Speaker 2: going to be friends with whoever I want, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: my face is all red and like, of course you pick.
Speaker 1: Yourself course, but I have to well, I'm being completely
Speaker 1: honest and not humble at all. I actually thought to myself, well,
Speaker 1: you do look better than.
Speaker 2: Last year myself. Certainly they spend enough money to make
Speaker 2: that happen. By walking filter, I think you look so
Speaker 2: I get carried away now.
Speaker 1: But that definitely was one of the things that I
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, well, if anything, I don't know how
Speaker 1: this is all going to go down, but I think
Speaker 1: I look better.
Speaker 2: You looks good, fantastic. Anyway, it's going to be a great,
Speaker 2: great season. I'm excited. Me to our topic for today, guys,
Speaker 2: is you say it?
Speaker 1: Well, okay, so I'll say it, but I want to
Speaker 1: say kind of why.
Speaker 2: We picked today our topic.
Speaker 1: We're going to entitle this one bucket or fuck it,
Speaker 1: meaning like bucket list items maybe that we had when
Speaker 1: we were younger. What are our bucket list items now?
Speaker 1: Things that we thought we had to do in our
Speaker 1: lifetime that we look at now and we think, oh
Speaker 1: my god. I can't believe I even thought that was important.
Speaker 1: But the idea came to us. I was watching Naiad.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys have see Niad, but
Speaker 1: it's this I want to say. It's on Netflix. Anette
Speaker 1: Benning and Jodie Foster, this movie about this woman Diana
Speaker 1: Niad who swam from from Cuba to maybe like Key West,
Speaker 1: and so it's this amazing story. She tried and tried
Speaker 1: and by the time she was sixty she actually got
Speaker 1: it done. But it was like talk about like a
Speaker 1: bucket list. Like she was like, I just want to
Speaker 1: do something in my lifetime that no one else has done.
Speaker 1: And I'm watching this and this woman is so driven
Speaker 1: by that, and I'm thinking, first of all, that is
Speaker 1: the worst bucket list item that I could even ever imagine.
Speaker 1: I can't imagine wanting to do anything less than swim.
Speaker 2: But I don't get that at all.
Speaker 1: And as a matter of fact, like I've got a
Speaker 1: friend who recently we were talking about this and I
Speaker 1: was asking her about her bucketless things, and she's like,
Speaker 1: I did a half marathon. I thought that was the
Speaker 1: dumbest bucketless thing. I cannot believe I would have wasted
Speaker 1: my time on that kind of misery. It's like, and
Speaker 1: now today I would have never been interested. Okay, so
Speaker 1: that is our topic.
Speaker 2: So yes, I just want to bring up one more
Speaker 2: thing before we start. Yes, since we are a podcast
Speaker 2: about middle aged women, there's this new Anne Hathaway movie
Speaker 2: have you heard of this? No, okay. It's called The
Speaker 2: Idea of You, and it's about a woman in her
Speaker 2: forties who takes her daughter to Coachella and the the
Speaker 2: uh lead of a boy band falls in love with her, with.
Speaker 1: The with the mother, with the mother who's Anne Hathaway.
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm region synopsis. Hold on, I'm so into the real.
Speaker 2: Selene must step into chaperone her teenage daughter's trip to
Speaker 2: Coachella after her ex bales at the last minute. She
Speaker 2: has a chance encounter with Hayes Campbell, and there's an instant,
Speaker 2: undeniable spark as they began a whirlwind romance. It isn't
Speaker 2: long before hayes superstar status poses unavoidable challenges to their relationship.
Speaker 2: So he's in his twenties and she's in her forties,
Speaker 2: and it's a story. It's supposed to be a story
Speaker 2: about a woman approach, a woman in her forties reclaiming
Speaker 2: her sexuality and rediscovering herself just at the point that
Speaker 2: society traditionally writes women off as desirable and viable.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, seriously, I mean we're gonna have to do
Speaker 1: I think that we should do some movie and like
Speaker 1: a deep dive.
Speaker 2: I'll just say that, like that sounds. Of course, I
Speaker 2: love my husband, but if they're like in an alternate universe,
Speaker 2: if we ever got.
Speaker 1: Divorced but every woman feels like that, I don't think
Speaker 1: that I.
Speaker 2: Would ever feel that fully secure in that kind of relationship.
Speaker 2: I think I'd always feel like that person was looking
Speaker 2: for was seeing what else is out there?
Speaker 1: Well, I right, but I just think like the idea
Speaker 1: of it to me, what occurred to me is simply
Speaker 1: that like how validating in some weird way, And I mean,
Speaker 1: how validation at this age? But like there have some
Speaker 1: rock star on stage and a boy band. Now now
Speaker 1: it's actually sounding gross, but like, let's they say a
Speaker 1: boy band, Well.
Speaker 2: They think that it's based on Harry Styles and Olivia Wilde.
Speaker 1: Okay, so now I have to tell this go ahead.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, do it.
Speaker 1: So we took so my sister and I took my
Speaker 1: daughter and my niece to one direction. So we're going
Speaker 1: back twelve years or something. And this is like when
Speaker 1: they had first come out, and like the little girls
Speaker 1: were like in hysterics, and we paid for like a
Speaker 1: VIP meeting and so first you went into this like
Speaker 1: little auditorium with all the people that had paid for
Speaker 1: this shit, and they did like a Q and A
Speaker 1: so just like embarrass my kids whatever. I like, raised
Speaker 1: my hand, I stood up and I don't remember what
Speaker 1: I said. But then the guys started saying like stuff
Speaker 1: like my mother don't look like that, like something that
Speaker 1: was it was the best day of my life.
Speaker 2: No, I'm not kidding. Wouldn't even brought it up. I
Speaker 2: want to say, like they said something like or Harry,
Speaker 2: your mother looked like that or something like that.
Speaker 1: I was like, I can die now.
Speaker 2: I can die now. And Rachel and Day based on you.
Speaker 1: Holy shit, people are always stealing shit.
Speaker 2: Maybe I don't know if our audience remembers this. Remember
Speaker 2: when Craigslist had miss connections?
Speaker 1: No, I don't even you don't remember that.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. It was the craziest thing Craigslist. This
Speaker 2: is a million years ago. It had this thing called
Speaker 2: miss connections and it was like, I saw you on
Speaker 2: the subway. You looked at me. I thought of it yesterday.
Speaker 2: You know why. I was driving home from New York
Speaker 2: City and I was getting on the West Side Highway
Speaker 2: and fucking Conan O'Brien was standing having a conversation with
Speaker 2: somebody right by the exit and I almost served my
Speaker 2: fucking car off the road looking at him, and we
Speaker 2: locked eyes. I swear to god, we locked eyes, and
Speaker 2: I was like, God, if that fucking miss Connections column
Speaker 2: was still around, I would have been checking that ship.
Speaker 2: I mean, not to start a romance and Coda and O'Brien,
Speaker 2: but like, just for the ad that says, were you
Speaker 2: the crazy blonde bitch you almost run me over when
Speaker 2: you were getting on the west side.
Speaker 1: It was why that's I wonder why that's not here anymore?
Speaker 1: Let's bring it, bring back misconnections. People start from that. Anyway,
Speaker 1: we have to see that movie and we have to
Speaker 1: do a deep dive maybe for another episode. Love it.
Speaker 2: But okay, so bucket list, So I think that where
Speaker 2: you should start by talking about the things we wanted
Speaker 2: when we were younger.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, not just bucketless things, but things that you
Speaker 1: were just like, because bucklets is a weird thing. Means
Speaker 1: before I die, I want to do this, Yeah, maybe,
Speaker 1: but maybe sort of more encompass. Encompass, like what we
Speaker 1: really wanted to do or what we wanted to have, Yeah,
Speaker 1: what we wanted to do and have now you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: the things that.
Speaker 2: We really thought would fulfill us. Right, well, I think
Speaker 2: do you remember? You know, we're a few years apart.
Speaker 2: But when I was a kid in elementary school, the
Speaker 2: biggest thing was making these little orgami. I forget what
Speaker 2: they were called, but like you would stick your fingers
Speaker 2: in them and like go like God, or open them.
Speaker 2: I could still make it open and you would you
Speaker 2: would write down the things that you wanted. It was
Speaker 2: also a game called mash and like you would write
Speaker 2: out the things that you like wanted, and it was
Speaker 2: like who you wanted to marry, what you wanted to
Speaker 2: do for a living, what kind of car you wanted
Speaker 2: to drive, where you wanted to live. And I was
Speaker 2: very very sure of what I wanted for my future.
Speaker 2: I wanted to live in Beverly Hills. I wanted to
Speaker 2: drive a limousine. I wanted to want to be the
Speaker 2: driver or the passenger. I just thought a limousine was
Speaker 2: the most glamorous car. You wanted to be the driver.
Speaker 2: I just wanted it to be my fucking car.
Speaker 1: Okay, I just wanted to park. Because you still feel
Speaker 1: that way, I'm sure there are plenty of opportunities for
Speaker 1: you to drive a limousine.
Speaker 2: Let's see if I lose my friend, if I wasn't
Speaker 2: a good enough friend. No, I just wanted to I
Speaker 2: just wanted a limousine. Okay, I just thought it was
Speaker 2: a glamouse. You know. I wanted to marry this kid,
Speaker 2: Doug in my class, who is not on social media,
Speaker 2: so I can't even stop him. And I just like,
Speaker 2: I really wanted to live in a mansion, have three
Speaker 2: kids married. That's all I wanted out of life.
Speaker 1: Wow, I mean I want to say that I had
Speaker 1: so what age was that?
Speaker 2: No, that was as a kid. That's not really what
Speaker 2: I wanted as a young adult.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but as a kid, I'm going to say that
Speaker 1: that that about sums it up. I wanted to be
Speaker 1: on a soap opera. To me, so the world of
Speaker 1: like all my children in general hospital was the only
Speaker 1: place in which anybody should live, and.
Speaker 2: It wasn't even necessarily.
Speaker 1: And I went to perming our high school, and I
Speaker 1: went to acting school after. But I was never a
Speaker 1: good actress, so there was that. But I just craved
Speaker 1: that being on stage right, which ironically, all these years later,
Speaker 1: I get a little bit of that. But anyway, but
Speaker 1: so and get married and have babies, and I feel so.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I feel guilty saying that, because
Speaker 1: that's not an anti feminist thing to say. It's just
Speaker 1: for me. What it was. I just wanted, you know,
Speaker 1: my family life was not traditional and it was there
Speaker 1: were a lot of moving pieces, and I really just
Speaker 1: dreamt of having a very stable, secure family, one home,
Speaker 1: not a lot of moving around, having babies and being
Speaker 1: the star of all my children.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, I mean the stable family home. I definitely
Speaker 2: understand given your upbringing, right, Yeah, yeah, I definitely wanted
Speaker 2: a lot of children, and I wanted to get married.
Speaker 2: I didn't when I was dating, I didn't really care
Speaker 2: who I dated, like in terms of race, religion, ethnicity.
Speaker 2: I dated across the board. I just I was I love.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you read my book, you know I
Speaker 2: was like boy crazy. But I probably why I ended
Speaker 2: up falling in love with like a Jewish finance guy
Speaker 2: from Westchester, which you know, worked out for my mother wonderfully,
Speaker 2: but I and he's the best, and it worked out
Speaker 2: for me really great as well. But I was really open.
Speaker 1: My one requirement back in the day when I was
Speaker 1: dating after college was that somebody just had to be tall.
Speaker 1: That's the only thing I cared about is Jeff tall.
Speaker 1: He's five six, okay, so literally, like people would be
Speaker 1: fixing me up, I wasn't. I really didn't have anything
Speaker 1: else except I just because I always felt like such
Speaker 1: a big girl and I wanted just to have someone
Speaker 1: bigger than me. And I mean, look how we plan
Speaker 1: and god laughs, but I mean I dated. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: the list is long in terms of all of that
Speaker 1: different guys from all different backgrounds. I just was so
Speaker 1: until I met Jeff, so needy of a man's attention,
Speaker 1: and like I didn't really have a lot of requirements,
Speaker 1: just like just want to kiss me? Yeah, sad, but.
Speaker 2: No, not sad. I mean, but what would did you
Speaker 2: have any like goals in your mind of things you
Speaker 2: wanted to accomplish before you were a certain age.
Speaker 1: You know, not before I was a certain age. But
Speaker 1: I think I would dream of of being an actress
Speaker 1: and being famous. And again, I don't think that was
Speaker 1: about the craft. I think that was about the attention
Speaker 1: and just sort of like I always loved in elementary
Speaker 1: and middle school, like I was always in plays. I
Speaker 1: was always getting these these you know, really big parts.
Speaker 1: And then high school. I went to forming arts high
Speaker 1: school and not so much like there was actual real
Speaker 1: competition there. And then I went to an act After
Speaker 1: I graduated tech from UT, I went to the American
Speaker 1: Academy of Dramatic Arts. I got another degree in acting,
Speaker 1: but I just wasn't very good at it. But so
Speaker 1: when you say bucket list, that's something that was always like,
Speaker 1: I want to be famous. There were other things certainly
Speaker 1: that I've wanted, but I would say that in terms
Speaker 1: of a career, that was probably the running thing I
Speaker 1: never And I also was never that big of like
Speaker 1: a career person.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, but you have a successful shoe line, right,
Speaker 2: That's what I'm going to say.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I was not ever sort of like that
Speaker 1: focused on career. I wanted to make money. I wanted
Speaker 1: to be independent, and however that was going to happen.
Speaker 1: So I had a whole host of different jobs in
Speaker 1: my twenties that I hated, and then when I had
Speaker 1: the kids, I worked part time as a fashion recruiter.
Speaker 1: Didn't really enjoy that either. I never enjoyed anything until
Speaker 1: I started my own business, which is for anyone who cares,
Speaker 1: I have a high heel shoe line shop f Major
Speaker 1: dot com and it's for women who after a certain
Speaker 1: age can't walk in heels. And I just wanted to
Speaker 1: create like a really sexy heel for women that wanted
Speaker 1: to still wear them but that was still comfortable because
Speaker 1: I can't walk in heels anymore, and I had bunions
Speaker 1: and whatever a million disgusting things that go along with
Speaker 1: aging in your feet. But anyway, so I have this business,
Speaker 1: this shoe business, and I was really passionate about it,
Speaker 1: just I don't know what the It wasn't a bucket
Speaker 1: list thing though, right. More like I started it, I
Speaker 1: felt great about it. I started doing it, I really
Speaker 1: started liking what I was doing, as opposed to jobs
Speaker 1: where I was there not because the job was actually
Speaker 1: feeding my soul, but because it was feeding my pocket.
Speaker 2: Right yeah, yeah, yeah. So I would say the biggest
Speaker 2: thing in my as a young adult, the number one
Speaker 2: thing that I wanted the most and I thought would
Speaker 2: make me so happy. Aside from being thin, which was
Speaker 2: another a whole nother story that's a different episode. I
Speaker 2: really wanted a daughter, and I thought, if I have
Speaker 2: a daughter, my life will be complete. And I won't
Speaker 2: need anything else in the whole world.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Now, I had two boys first, and it's not something
Speaker 2: I really ever talk about. I did write an article
Speaker 2: about it once for Good Housekeeping, But I and if
Speaker 2: you know me and my relationship with my to my
Speaker 2: first set of twins, I am absolutely at the time,
Speaker 2: I gonna be really honest. I had something called gender disappointment,
Speaker 2: and I it was like severe and I loved my
Speaker 2: boys so much, but I had and I make no
Speaker 2: secret of the fact that I have struggled with mental
Speaker 2: illness over the years.
Speaker 1: Welcome, come to the right place.
Speaker 2: Nice to meet Jim. And I had just this like
Speaker 2: unending anxiety that my boys were never going to love
Speaker 2: me the way that they would love their father. Really, yes,
Speaker 2: I was consumed by it.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't about you loving them, It was about
Speaker 1: loving you.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I love them so much.
Speaker 1: I know you didn't.
Speaker 2: I always went scared that they were never going to
Speaker 2: be you know, society tells you that you have a daughter,
Speaker 2: she'll be your best friend for life, right, so I
Speaker 2: was like, I need that best friend for life. I
Speaker 2: also struggled with like insecurity, and you know, I'm a
Speaker 2: very different person now. But I was consumed by the
Speaker 2: thought that if I don't have a daughter, I'm going
Speaker 2: to be really missed something.
Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, I know one other person like that, Jack
Speaker 1: and I don't even not a friend. But this woman
Speaker 1: that I that I knew who had had like twins,
Speaker 1: she ended up having a daughter. But I remember her
Speaker 1: talking to mebout I didn't even know her that well,
Speaker 1: and she was just she couldn't get past you.
Speaker 2: I just had boys.
Speaker 1: I wanted a girl. I just.
Speaker 2: And then you think, so like when I had the
Speaker 2: two boys. I cannot tell you how many times people
Speaker 2: ask me, are you going to try for a girl?
Speaker 2: And so I just had this idea in my head
Speaker 2: that I couldn't get rid of, where I was just
Speaker 2: consumed by it. So anyway, I needed IVF anyway because
Speaker 2: I destroyed my body with anorexia. So I went back.
Speaker 2: So I had my boys first with one round of IVF,
Speaker 2: and then when I went back to have a third
Speaker 2: because I did want to try for that girl, my
Speaker 2: next two rounds of IVF at the same clinic, I
Speaker 2: didn't even make it to transfer my So you the
Speaker 2: way that it works is like so you grow the
Speaker 2: eggs with medication, they take the eggs out of you,
Speaker 2: they fertilize it with your husband's sperm, and then you
Speaker 2: see how many embryos are left.
Speaker 1: That's a different day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you see how many embryos are left at the
Speaker 2: end of either three days or five days anyway, and
Speaker 2: then the good ones, if you have some strong ones,
Speaker 2: they'll put either one or two inside you and they'll
Speaker 2: freeze the rest or if you want to freeze the rest. Right.
Speaker 2: So I had nothing. I couldn't go to transfer on
Speaker 2: my second and third rounds. It was devastating. It was horrible.
Speaker 2: I had very low e quality, so the because of
Speaker 2: the interrexia. Yes, I just really destroyed myself. And my
Speaker 2: doctor suggested that I stop. And once he said that,
Speaker 2: my mind was like I just went nuts because I
Speaker 2: was like, oh God, I'm not going to get my girl.
Speaker 2: So I was looking for a new doctor closer to
Speaker 2: my home in New Jersey. And I'm going to tell
Speaker 2: you a story that I've never told anyone. I don't
Speaker 2: even think my parents know, only really me and Evan.
Speaker 1: I know this now sixty how many how many of you?
Speaker 2: Okay? Because I mean so, I started doing some research
Speaker 2: on how I can have a girl. And I found
Speaker 2: this thing that is no longer available in the United States.
Speaker 2: It's available overseas, but it was called MicroSort. It's still around,
Speaker 2: but it's just not in the US anymore. But it
Speaker 2: was in the US then it was in clinical trials
Speaker 2: for a very very long time. So I felt okay that, like,
Speaker 2: it wasn't something that was going to make my kids
Speaker 2: sick or what. But it was this technology and there
Speaker 2: was a doctor right near me who participated in it.
Speaker 2: And what it does, it's this sorting process where your
Speaker 2: husband has to go to Virginia and then they spin
Speaker 2: it or something. No, they don't spin it. Spinning is
Speaker 2: like a little bit of a myth. But they they
Speaker 2: use this like fluorescent technology that highlights the male sperm
Speaker 2: versus the female like sperm, right, and they separate it
Speaker 2: and then but it's not a guarantee, so you a
Speaker 2: percentage on what your sort is, okay, and then they
Speaker 2: fertilize your egg with whatever sort that is. So like
Speaker 2: if you were trying for a girl, if you want
Speaker 2: a girl, they'll take all the girl sperm and they'll
Speaker 2: and they'll fertilize with that. But it's not a guarantee
Speaker 2: they don't get like thousands of dollars. Was this, you
Speaker 2: don't even want to go show accepted. You get to
Speaker 2: get accepted to the process and everything. It took a
Speaker 2: long time, and they but it's not one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: Sort, okay, right.
Speaker 2: So our first round of that, which was my fourth
Speaker 2: round of IBS, oh my god, I got an eighty
Speaker 2: five percent sort, so, which meant that eighty five percent
Speaker 2: of the sperm that they were using was girlsperm. Right,
Speaker 2: So I got pregnant for like a week, there was
Speaker 2: a thing on the screen my my tests showed that
Speaker 2: I was pregnant, and then it was gone. I don't
Speaker 2: know that that's called a miscarriage because it was so early,
Speaker 2: but it was gone after like a week, and I
Speaker 2: was devastated. And then my fifth round of IVF I
Speaker 2: got an eighty five I got a ninety percent sort.
Speaker 2: And at the end of that, I had one good
Speaker 2: embryo and one bad embryo, and they were like, we're
Speaker 2: just gonna put them both in because nothing ever takes anyway.
Speaker 2: And I ended up having a boy and a girl,
Speaker 2: Oh my god, which is wild. But I worried for
Speaker 2: a long time that first of all, they have to
Speaker 2: mail back the sperm from I said to Evan, I
Speaker 2: was like, if this is baby, he doesn't look like
Speaker 2: you're gonna hear really fucking upset. Wait was Evan?
Speaker 1: How did Evan handle it?
Speaker 2: He was so Evan was not He knew that I
Speaker 2: really wanted this. He also, it's really hard to fight
Speaker 2: my Yeah, my mentor determined he he did it because
Speaker 2: he loves me and because, I mean, there was no
Speaker 2: like real downside for him except having to go to
Speaker 2: Virginia twice. But I think he was a little bit
Speaker 2: nervous because no one we knew had ever done anything
Speaker 2: like this, you know, and still to this day sometimes
Speaker 2: like if my kids will do something cooky, I'm like, God,
Speaker 2: I wonder if that like fluorescent technology did something, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean, you I worry. But it's still around. It's
Speaker 2: just that in the US the FDA wouldn't clear it,
Speaker 2: which means it had to stay as a clinical trial,
Speaker 2: which is really really expensive. So it's all over the world,
Speaker 2: it's just you can't talk about in America. So I
Speaker 2: did end up having my ground.
Speaker 1: So Alexa was your bucket.
Speaker 2: List, she alexis is my bucket list's your bucket list.
Speaker 2: But that being said, I worshiped my daughter. I love
Speaker 2: her so much. It didn't it didn't end up being
Speaker 2: the kind of relationship that in my mind I thought
Speaker 2: it would be.
Speaker 1: Carefully because it sounds like in your mind you thought
Speaker 1: she was going to be your best friend. Well she,
Speaker 1: I mean, I had worship were best friend my daughter. No, No,
Speaker 1: I don't think my daughter thinks I'm her best friend.
Speaker 1: I think she much rather hang.
Speaker 2: Out with her actual friends than with me I imagined us,
Speaker 2: you know, like coordinating outfits, or of like getting our
Speaker 2: nails then together. I think I've taken her for two
Speaker 2: mantic years in her whole life. She much rather like
Speaker 2: use a marker and color her nails black. She enjoys
Speaker 2: hanging out with her friends far more than she wants
Speaker 2: to be with me. And I'll tell you the honest truth.
Speaker 2: My oldest son, my firstborn, and all my kids will
Speaker 2: tell you this. I love all my kids the same.
Speaker 2: But Hey and I are the like theses. Probably you know,
Speaker 2: and if you had told me that, I would never
Speaker 2: have believed it. But I find myself gravitating more to
Speaker 2: the boy stuff. And maybe because I'm in a place
Speaker 2: of privilege right now because I do have the daughter,
Speaker 2: so I can you know, I just gravitate more towards
Speaker 2: their basketball games and shopping for the boy. I get
Speaker 2: such a jolt at a watching them play sports. And
Speaker 2: I don't feel any different being with my daughter than
Speaker 2: I do with my sons.
Speaker 1: Wow. Well, I definitely didn't have that my so neither
Speaker 1: Jeff nor myself. We have zero ability in terms of athletics,
Speaker 1: so I can barely walk, much less kick a ball.
Speaker 1: Jeff pretends, but he really and we passed those genes
Speaker 1: on thankfully because the truth is the thought of having
Speaker 1: to go I watched my friends have to go to
Speaker 1: game after game after game. Zach is actually here somewhere.
Speaker 1: He's probably up there just cursing me out because like
Speaker 1: he wanted so badly to be good at sports. He
Speaker 1: tried so hard, and now like he looks back at
Speaker 1: it and he'll say to me, you know, you guys,
Speaker 1: just let me quit everything. Now I don't think we
Speaker 1: let it. I remember spending thousands of dollars on the
Speaker 1: cross equipment, Like I do know about letting him quit
Speaker 1: so easily. But I'm sorry, but the kid just he
Speaker 1: just couldn't play, so it was what it was. And Rachel, well,
Speaker 1: she just is not in sports. She's like me, she
Speaker 1: never was. But like so in terms of spending time
Speaker 1: with them, I don't I don't know that I gravitated
Speaker 1: both of my kids whatever they had going on at
Speaker 1: the time. I don't think I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I wish I could go to a soccer game over
Speaker 1: whatever girl scouts. But was our point here?
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm just like what you gravitated towards. I
Speaker 2: don't gravitate as much to the girls stuff. No, but
Speaker 2: like oh this, I was gonna say so.
Speaker 1: But like when the kids were little, Zach was the
Speaker 1: easiest baby toddler teenager. Rachel was the most difficult baby
Speaker 1: infant toddler teenager. Like I always tell this story that
Speaker 1: when they were both inside me, I used to have
Speaker 1: to go get non stress tests with Zach, which means
Speaker 1: like you don't know if the baby's alive or not,
Speaker 1: because he was like so mellow, Like I was like,
Speaker 1: nothing's moving, there's no way there's something wrong here. There's
Speaker 1: no way that this baby is alive. And with Rachel,
Speaker 1: like literally the second that the egg was you know,
Speaker 1: the sperm hit the egg. She was kicking me, and
Speaker 1: like we always say, like I was like, I couldn't
Speaker 1: get up the stairs with her. She was just pissed,
Speaker 1: and I to this day it is it's well, actually
Speaker 1: it's changed, it has changed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you guys are super close, and I am super
Speaker 2: close with Alexus. I just you know, I think about
Speaker 2: it now, and I'm very close with my father. I'm
Speaker 2: also very close with my mother. But I don't think
Speaker 2: I would want my daughter to devote her life to
Speaker 2: being my best friend. I don't think I need her
Speaker 2: to live next door to me. If I don't, I
Speaker 2: don't need any of that that I thought that I needed.
Speaker 2: So that would be my number one thing that I
Speaker 2: really thought I needed in order to find happiness throughout
Speaker 2: my life. And even though my daughter brings me abundant happiness,
Speaker 2: of course, look go back now, I think I would
Speaker 2: have had, you know, abundant happiness with boys only you.
Speaker 1: Know, well, yeah, if I think of like bucketless things,
Speaker 1: I too had the had I didn't have the girl thing.
Speaker 1: I just had the kid thing. But I remember biological
Speaker 1: clock really ticking, like in my late twenties, and I
Speaker 1: met Jeff when I was twenty nine, and I was
Speaker 1: like losing it. Like I'd wake up with dreams, having
Speaker 1: had like these dreams of babies, and I would wake
Speaker 1: up so sad and just like missing the baby from
Speaker 1: the dream. And I remember negotiating with God and saying
Speaker 1: listen because I'm also a like a crazy hypochondriac. And
Speaker 1: it was way worse when I was younger and not
Speaker 1: on medication. But anyway, so I always thought I was dying.
Speaker 1: Please God, just let me have babies first. Please just
Speaker 1: let me have babies first. Then I had babies, Please God,
Speaker 1: let me just get to their weddings. They're gonna need me.
Speaker 1: Please let me just make it until then. Then you know,
Speaker 1: now I have kids that are I can't ever leave them,
Speaker 1: Like there's no negotiating. I can't bear the thought of
Speaker 1: ever leaving them, do you know what I mean? On
Speaker 1: the line you said, but wanting that so badly, just
Speaker 1: wanting the kids. I don't know if that was a
Speaker 1: bucketless thing, but that was just inside of me. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think some people need it and some people don't.
Speaker 2: For me, I know, I see childless couples, and I
Speaker 2: know there's a lot of people who have no desire
Speaker 2: to ever have kids. It's hard for me to understand.
Speaker 2: And of course I know that it's you know, it's
Speaker 2: just not everybody and everybody's plans, But for me, it's
Speaker 2: hard to understand that. I just feel like my kids,
Speaker 2: you know, like it's just something I said Jenny McCarthy
Speaker 2: or like Bill Maher talking about Carthy as a kid.
Speaker 1: I'm not Jennie McCarthy. Who am I talking about another
Speaker 1: really pretty blonde male. Not Jenny McCarthy. What's her name,
Speaker 1: Amy Schumer? No, Chelsea him. Yes, So she's always talking
Speaker 1: about it, and like Bill mar is always talking about it,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, you know, maybe they are onto something
Speaker 1: there like she's. But I mean, obviously I would never
Speaker 1: go back, but.
Speaker 2: I do think that, Yeah, I think that people can
Speaker 2: be other There are bucketless things include children. Yep. Okay,
Speaker 2: So I mean I always wanted to be thin, but
Speaker 2: that's that's for another time. And that didn't actually pan
Speaker 2: out the way I thought it would because it almost
Speaker 2: killed me. As we all know if you read my book,
Speaker 2: I wanted to write something that and viral. I did
Speaker 2: want to be a journalist. I had no My mother
Speaker 2: wanted me to go to law school. I went to
Speaker 2: law school. I was a corporate lawyer for a while
Speaker 2: and then a real estate lawyer. But I always had
Speaker 2: the writing bug and I just wanted to write one
Speaker 2: thing that would go viral anyway, So I this way
Speaker 2: before Housewives, I started writing. When I started writing, I
Speaker 2: was working my way up. And then I got I
Speaker 2: started getting published in the Huffington Post, and I started
Speaker 2: getting published in really good places. And I wrote one
Speaker 2: thing that went absolutely like all over the place, and
Speaker 2: I can't tell you, for like a week, I couldn't
Speaker 2: even sleep. I was just like checking who would read
Speaker 2: it and who would comment, and a good way. It
Speaker 2: was so good. It was so good. It was just
Speaker 2: about being a mom and like the things that you know,
Speaker 2: you felt that you felt that like you were you
Speaker 2: had been so fulfilled. Oh I was fulfilled. I was.
Speaker 2: But then I was like, I want more.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just exactly was.
Speaker 2: But I did have that. But there are things that
Speaker 2: I still want in life, like little goals, like little
Speaker 2: I wouldn't call them bucket lists. I still feel far
Speaker 2: from death maybe so it's hard for me to.
Speaker 1: See, Well, do you know there's that we so our
Speaker 1: producer sent us actually an article like it was like
Speaker 1: a Yahoo ar yeah twenty three about bucket lists and
Speaker 1: like how people over fifty they say that they really
Speaker 1: didn't like attain any of those goals or the bucket
Speaker 1: list becomes less important. What becomes important is, you know,
Speaker 1: spending time with people that you love and and all
Speaker 1: of that stuff and Kilimanjaro or running the marathon is
Speaker 1: not doesn't feel quite as meaningful, and you're much less
Speaker 1: likely as you get older to also check those items
Speaker 1: items like that off of a list because now you're
Speaker 1: older and you're too tired to travel the world, do
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? But but there are little yeah,
Speaker 1: I still have a bunch of little ones. They're not
Speaker 1: they're not the huge ones. They're not the be you know, uh,
Speaker 1: the eric on all my children anymore?
Speaker 2: Well, what are yours? And by the way, you can
Speaker 2: you can do that.
Speaker 1: I don't don't want to do that, okay.
Speaker 2: But you know that like ninety nine percent of people's
Speaker 2: dreams die in their head, they really do.
Speaker 1: I do love that. That was what Niad was about,
Speaker 1: that that Diana and I had had Like she didn't
Speaker 1: do it until she was sixty years old.
Speaker 2: So what are yours?
Speaker 1: I have a lot of little ones. And I have
Speaker 1: to say it's like I like everyone does, but travels
Speaker 1: certainly on the list. And I saw in that article
Speaker 1: like one of the maybe it was the number one
Speaker 1: bucklest thing was Safari in Africa. Oh really, Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: dying to do that.
Speaker 2: No, I don't like really long flights.
Speaker 1: I mean I'm not concerned about the flight. I just
Speaker 1: want to get there and I want to like be
Speaker 1: in this place that's such a like it's like mystical. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I have one of my best friends went a
Speaker 1: few months ago. It just changed everything. It was like
Speaker 1: being in a completely different world.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think I'm waiting for my kids to be
Speaker 2: able to appreciate it.
Speaker 1: She went with her kids. Yeah, so there's that. So
Speaker 1: so I would say the like, definitely travel is something.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then there's the thing is like I was thinking
Speaker 1: maybe I'd want house in a certain place in Florida
Speaker 1: or the Ham or whatever. But you know when I
Speaker 1: was when Jeff and I had first moved into this house,
Speaker 1: this is our third home in this town. I remember
Speaker 1: we were bidding on it and I'm like, if we
Speaker 1: get this house, I will never have an unhappy day.
Speaker 2: That'll be it. Every day I'll wake up and not that.
Speaker 1: My house is. I don't live in an estate, but
Speaker 1: it was for me, it felt so right. I was
Speaker 1: I was dying, dying, dying for this house, big shop.
Speaker 1: I've had unhappy days. So but like what I thought
Speaker 1: was like the end all be all. I mean, it
Speaker 1: probably never is, but I so as of now I'm older,
Speaker 1: I see like, oh, it'd be so great to have
Speaker 1: a house in where's your house, West.
Speaker 2: Hampton, West Hampton.
Speaker 1: Right, But having said that, I'm still going to be there.
Speaker 1: My shit's still going to be there, you know, my
Speaker 1: issues will still be there. But stuff that I just
Speaker 1: I want to do, I mean, it becomes a little smaller.
Speaker 1: I want my kids to be good. Like that's the
Speaker 1: first thing.
Speaker 2: I mean, your kids being happy is just all that
Speaker 2: all of us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just like you know right that that's just innate.
Speaker 1: So I want my kids to be good. I want
Speaker 1: to laugh.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean I've gone on this crazy adventure with housewives
Speaker 1: that I could have never predicted and that I'm so
Speaker 1: grateful for. And I would like to have more adventures.
Speaker 1: Whether or not it'll be it'll have to do with houses.
Speaker 1: But like having that kind of newness and excitement and
Speaker 1: excitement love to keep.
Speaker 2: There's nothing better than that feeling of like fear and
Speaker 2: excitement and anxiety and like then doing something and it
Speaker 2: turning out well or not.
Speaker 1: I mean, listen doesn't always certainly not when we're talking
Speaker 1: reality TV. It doesn't always turn out well and it
Speaker 1: is always you know. But I have found the last
Speaker 1: couple of years, I've fulfilled these different like checked off
Speaker 1: little bucket list things that I never thought I would.
Speaker 1: That's been sort of cool.
Speaker 2: So can I tell you one that I still have? Yes?
Speaker 1: Please?
Speaker 2: So I played the piano right, and when I was younger,
Speaker 2: I was really good. I was good, and I can
Speaker 2: play by ear. But when I play by ear, it's
Speaker 2: not sophisticated, Like it's just like simple chords with like
Speaker 2: my right hand moving around making like the melody and
Speaker 2: like that's pretty cool though. So but I know that
Speaker 2: I could be good if I took some more lessons
Speaker 2: and I like refreshed myself. I know that I could
Speaker 2: be good. And I can read music and everything. And
Speaker 2: I've always had this dream of just playing one night
Speaker 2: with a rock band, just really. I can't sing, but
Speaker 2: I can write songs.
Speaker 1: Jackie, we have spoken about this while you were taking
Speaker 1: guitar lessons, and then you never you didn't continue. Well,
Speaker 1: I was, so, how am I going to start a band?
Speaker 1: I got a little busy. But besides that, it's also
Speaker 1: really really hard. So and I've tried, not once, not twice,
Speaker 1: but three times. And I still have my guitar in
Speaker 1: my room and I pick it up and I'll start
Speaker 1: again and start lessons because the point is that one
Speaker 1: of my bucket list things would be not just to
Speaker 1: play one night. I would love to play. I'd love
Speaker 1: to like band a band, or like be sitting around
Speaker 1: with your friends at night, and like I would just
Speaker 1: cut because there's nothing better than when someone plays guitar
Speaker 1: or piano.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I always thinking out. I always think
Speaker 2: of Beverly Hills and David Foster used to always get
Speaker 2: on the piano and that ever would stand around him.
Speaker 2: Evan thinks that's the most awkward thing in the world.
Speaker 2: When I used to play songs, be like, it's a
Speaker 2: little awkward, Well, because I have no because it's like, well.
Speaker 1: David Foster was like, different, you're talking about a different
Speaker 1: thing you are you're talking about You're sitting in a
Speaker 1: room and David Foster is playing the piano, but like,
Speaker 1: if you're just sitting with friends, I mean, maybe I'm
Speaker 1: going back to like days of sleep away camp, or
Speaker 1: like somebody just picks up a guitar and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden you're singing like James Taylor, I know you.
Speaker 2: Had an edible that guy was like not that cute,
Speaker 2: and then he picks up on guitar and you're like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean that's so universe is saying, get back on that,
Speaker 2: because I really that is my bucket list goal is
Speaker 2: to play in a rock band, even if it's for
Speaker 2: one night. I really wanted to write a book. I
Speaker 2: did that. It's been unbelievable and so fulfilling. My other
Speaker 2: biggest thing in the world is I want to be
Speaker 2: fully recovered. And I am recovered from my eating disorder,
Speaker 2: but I definitely still have a lot of disordered eating habits.
Speaker 2: So no anorexia anymore, but I still weigh, like overanalyze
Speaker 2: and worry, yeah, of course about food weight too much.
Speaker 2: So I want all of that gone, which I am
Speaker 2: actively working on. I would love to go to Europe
Speaker 2: when that's all done, and really be able to like
Speaker 2: go to breakfast and get what I want and then
Speaker 2: not think about food for a little while and then
Speaker 2: go to lunchinella I want. Like That's not how my
Speaker 2: life works right now. Of course, so I don't restrict
Speaker 2: anymore in an unhealthy way, but I certainly do not
Speaker 2: have like a lot of freedom around food the way
Speaker 2: that I should. So that is my ultimate bucket list goal,
Speaker 2: is to get rid of all of that noise and
Speaker 2: to be able to eat really really freely without tons
Speaker 2: of anxiety, which I'm getting there, but not there quite yet.
Speaker 1: So interesting because all like stuff that you think that
Speaker 1: you want when you're younger, and then you get it
Speaker 1: and you're like, wait a second, you know this is great.
Speaker 1: But so I also have one of my best friends
Speaker 1: who said to me when we were in we had
Speaker 1: just had kids, so we're like, I guess early thirties,
Speaker 1: and she started a business called alor Mates and it's
Speaker 1: for kids with food allergies, and she made really amazing
Speaker 1: like jewelry and dog tags. Her kid had and has
Speaker 1: a very serious nut allergy. Actually so does my son
Speaker 1: and my daughter has. I know, they both have food allergies,
Speaker 1: but anyway, so kind of I would sometimes go in
Speaker 1: and help her with ideas for the little characters and
Speaker 1: the dog. Anyway, she said she was so driven by
Speaker 1: wanting to be to like have created this uber successful business,
Speaker 1: right and your name and your your pictures on the
Speaker 1: cover of Time magazine or whatever. Business. She was so
Speaker 1: all about being the CEO. And the business is still
Speaker 1: around and it's actually really really amazing. But she said,
Speaker 1: you know, I was asking her, what were your bucket
Speaker 1: list things then as opposed to what they are now,
Speaker 1: And she's like, now, it's not that I don't, you know,
Speaker 1: enjoy my business. But the truth is she feels really
Speaker 1: passionate about certain causes, one of them right now being Israel.
Speaker 1: But she's like, I just want to be an advocate.
Speaker 1: I wanted my life to get smaller. And she actually
Speaker 1: still has a son who it's like his first year
Speaker 1: of high school, so she's a while but she's like,
Speaker 1: that's what is motivating her now, causes that she is
Speaker 1: passionate about and advocating for them, and she's a big house.
Speaker 1: Maybe she always wanted that. It's you she wants to downsize,
Speaker 1: you know, like everything changes. She wants to have an easier,
Speaker 1: smaller situation and so which I really I kind of
Speaker 1: relate to like what I thought I wanted when I
Speaker 1: was younger. And by the way, if any of you
Speaker 1: out there are under forty and listening, just know like
Speaker 1: it changes, it does. It definitely change the better you
Speaker 1: get perspective. Well, yeah, you were saying you wanted to
Speaker 1: have like freedom around food. I would like to be
Speaker 1: I've had years and years and years and years of therapy,
Speaker 1: but I would like to And we were talking about
Speaker 1: this at the top of this hour, but not be
Speaker 1: so affected by oh my god, worried about are they
Speaker 1: going to like me? Number one and number two? Always
Speaker 1: I have a lot of fear around oh my god,
Speaker 1: when is the other shoe going to drop?
Speaker 2: Oh no, I don't really have that so anxiety.
Speaker 1: I mean it's gotten listen, years of therapy and medication
Speaker 1: and work on myself. It's definitely a whole different thing
Speaker 1: than it used to be. But I do definitely dream
Speaker 1: of a time where I am and it's gotten better,
Speaker 1: a lot better, but where I'm so sort of like secure,
Speaker 1: knowing that I am like living in dignity and not worrying.
Speaker 1: It doesn't It doesn't affect me what people say or think. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's definitely a goal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. I also I think one of the
Speaker 2: things that's always been really important to me and that
Speaker 2: I really wanted as an adult was close female close
Speaker 2: female friendships because I struggled with that congratulations, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: I was just going to say, like you and I,
Speaker 2: how long we've been friends? Only a few years? Like sisters?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, Well, listen, the thing is the best thing
Speaker 1: about the female, about a female friendship is that it's
Speaker 1: so different. We can talk about shit that I will
Speaker 1: never ever talk to Jeff about, will relate to each
Speaker 1: other in a way that I can never ever relate
Speaker 1: to him. You and I will be there for each
Speaker 1: other in ways that you know, my husband is thankfully
Speaker 1: happily there for me always. But different.
Speaker 2: But like the fact that, like if you had told
Speaker 2: me when you're, you know, in your mid forties, you're
Speaker 2: going to find one of your best friends in the world, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't think that I would especially.
Speaker 1: Imagine this in this scenario, right.
Speaker 2: And did you notice we have the same exact I
Speaker 2: already did notice that, But no, I mean, I'm really
Speaker 2: happy with where I am that I think there's so
Speaker 2: much to be said again another episode because whatever.
Speaker 1: But like, the female friendship for me at this age
Speaker 1: is everything.
Speaker 2: Everything, yeah, but not not everything.
Speaker 1: But it's a lot.
Speaker 2: But it's a lot. But that being said, on the
Speaker 2: flip side of it, the female friendships that I felt
Speaker 2: like were toxic and not serving me. In the past
Speaker 2: few years, I have definitely moved away from.
Speaker 1: So you see yourself in terms of like a bucket list?
Speaker 1: What do you see because you're younger to be Jack,
Speaker 1: but like now you're let's say, now you are sixty,
Speaker 1: what does that look like? I would like to.
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously that perfect relationship with food I would
Speaker 2: like to have.
Speaker 1: But what does it look like? Do you have a
Speaker 1: picture of it?
Speaker 2: If my kids are happy and doing things that make
Speaker 2: them happy, have gone to a four year college is
Speaker 2: important to me, and working in careers that make them happy,
Speaker 2: then I would feel like I can go live my life.
Speaker 2: I would like to travel with Evan. I would like
Speaker 2: to work. I always want to be create content, you
Speaker 2: know I I That's why I love this podcast. I
Speaker 2: love being on the show.
Speaker 1: I can't say I always would want to work no, no, no,
Speaker 1: but I.
Speaker 2: See I love creating content, like putting things out there,
Speaker 2: whether it's a book, an article, the show, the podcast.
Speaker 2: Like I am always like I wake up and I'm like,
Speaker 2: what can I write today? Yeah? I love that, So
Speaker 2: I still want to be doing that. I would like
Speaker 2: to write a lot more things, and of course play
Speaker 2: in a rock band.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and playing around and playing a rock band.
Speaker 2: And that's it.
Speaker 1: I mean, I got a lot of the bucket list things.
Speaker 1: I'm not Erica Kaine, but I am like I was
Speaker 1: able to with this show. You know, see what it
Speaker 1: feels like. Which is funny because that's when I say
Speaker 1: that I wanted to be famous as a bucket list thing.
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to say that I'm famous. I'm not.
Speaker 1: I hate like I make myself sick a little like
Speaker 1: because some people that watch the show will recognize me,
Speaker 1: I know, but I'm not trying to be like now
Speaker 1: that I'm famous. I obviously know that I'm not. That's
Speaker 1: not but being recognized sometimes I thought that it was
Speaker 1: going to be it would fill me up in a
Speaker 1: way that it definitely it's so much fun, but it's
Speaker 1: not what I thought like and maybe so many bucket
Speaker 1: list things aren't. Like I used to walk behind Margaret
Speaker 1: We're friends before and I watched people recognize her and
Speaker 1: they would just wig out when they would see her coming,
Speaker 1: and I would be like, wow, what would that be?
Speaker 2: Like, Yeah, because the problem is there's always going to
Speaker 2: be someone more famous than you.
Speaker 1: Well not, that's not a problem. I don't mean it
Speaker 1: like that, right, but like.
Speaker 2: You're always gonna when you get to a certain level,
Speaker 2: then you're like okay, now what Well.
Speaker 1: I also just feel like it's not as for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: like when people recognize me, it's so flattering and nice,
Speaker 1: but I would watch it happen to others and be like, wow,
Speaker 1: I want that to happen to me, and it's not. Again,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's not exciting and flattering and nice,
Speaker 1: but there's you know, it's not I guess what it
Speaker 1: what I mean.
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's fun, Like I was at Whole Foods. It
Speaker 2: is fun, and I went over to the strawberries and
Speaker 2: there was a girl looking at the strawberries too, and
Speaker 2: we were both like picking up packages and looking to
Speaker 2: see if like the whole package was like fine, And
Speaker 2: we were both there for like a good like minute
Speaker 2: and a half and she said without looking up, and
Speaker 2: she was like, I can't find a good package. And
Speaker 2: I'm like, I know me neither. And she started to
Speaker 2: talk and then she looked at me and oh my god,
Speaker 2: Jackie and she drops all the strawberries and like it
Speaker 2: was just like it started, like that is so fun
Speaker 2: and funny. And then there are times when like you
Speaker 2: get somebody at like a checkout counter who like really
Speaker 2: wants to deep dive into the show, and.
Speaker 1: You're like, I don't. Yeah, no, I my toilet paper, right,
Speaker 1: but not even I don't mean not that. I just
Speaker 1: thought it would fill me up in a different way,
Speaker 1: Like it's not it's not the absolute that I thought
Speaker 1: that it would be, you know, for somebody who always
Speaker 1: wanted to be on stage or to be famous. Right,
Speaker 1: But like now what I want when I look at
Speaker 1: my life is just like you, I want my kids.
Speaker 1: But even those bucket listened, Like you said college, the
Speaker 1: four year college thing. My kids both my daughter's about
Speaker 1: to graduate in May, but both kids went to had
Speaker 1: they both got a four year degree. Now I'm like
Speaker 1: that was so important, right, and like what college they
Speaker 1: were going to go to? No, I don't care what
Speaker 1: college they want. I'm not saying that's not important. But
Speaker 1: now I look at life very differently. There's so many
Speaker 1: different and I have some friends whose kids took a
Speaker 1: different path that has worked out so beautifully. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: so like all of that stuff that I thought I
Speaker 1: and that's really about them, not me, but that I
Speaker 1: thought I wanted for them so desperately. And I'm happy
Speaker 1: that they both have graduated from a four year college,
Speaker 1: but the importance it felt so much more important to
Speaker 1: me than it does now. In actually I think you
Speaker 1: live and learn, right, Yeah, No, just thinking about like
Speaker 1: what else I wanted in life? And I'm fifty five
Speaker 1: years old, and like you would think i'd be actually
Speaker 1: really concentrated on that, Like what do I want? Really
Speaker 1: sort of like you can't really plan it, I guess,
Speaker 1: but put a lot of thought into that bucket list question.
Speaker 1: But I want to travel. I want to have my
Speaker 1: life be peaceful. I want Yeah, I don't want to
Speaker 1: have at some point we're going to give up the
Speaker 1: four bedroom colonial and I want to be somewhere easy
Speaker 1: in a townhouse and an apartment in a you know,
Speaker 1: and just and I guess play with grandkids.
Speaker 2: Very I don't want even want to hear that word.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's sorry.
Speaker 2: I don't even want to talk about granids.
Speaker 1: It's gonna happen.
Speaker 2: Evan brings it up sometimes and I'm like, get the
Speaker 2: fuck out of my face with branchids, like I still
Speaker 2: have thirteen year olds, Like, I don't want to.
Speaker 1: Hear any I can't believe you have thirteen year olds.
Speaker 1: That is so hideous.
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry, far away from like thirteen.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Well my oldest and your youngest are not that far
Speaker 2: apart in age.
Speaker 1: Rachel's twenty one.
Speaker 2: Oh you're right, yeah they are.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not interested in going back, but I am
Speaker 1: inted in having the grandkids. And like everyone says having them,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to be that grandmother. I'm not raising them.
Speaker 1: I'll take them, I'll play with them, I'll give them money,
Speaker 1: and i'll send them back.
Speaker 2: See. I still have these thoughts every once in a
Speaker 2: while where I'm like, I could still have a baby.
Speaker 2: I'm forty seven. I hear that I could still have
Speaker 2: a baby.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I have brought it up to Evan, to be honest
Speaker 2: with you, I think I stop bringing it up, Like
Speaker 2: a year ago. But I think two main concerns, and
Speaker 2: I would have another one because I actually love to
Speaker 2: the children. My two main concerns are that, you know,
Speaker 2: as you get older, it's riskier.
Speaker 1: Be a geriatic what do they call a geriatric?
Speaker 2: Forget?
Speaker 3: Forget, you're like geriatric? I am like fucking like in
Speaker 3: the coffee and walking kiddy. I am like the old
Speaker 3: age home pregnancy.
Speaker 2: I worry that it would be healthy, that the child
Speaker 2: would be healthy, because you know, as you get older
Speaker 2: there's a greater source of But if I could guarantee
Speaker 2: that it was healthy, I just think that it wouldn't
Speaker 2: be like so much of a sibling, excepting name, because
Speaker 2: there'd be such an age difference. I just can't get.
Speaker 1: Past past the pack that this is a bucket Is.
Speaker 2: This called that's the bucket list? I don't need a
Speaker 2: fun are you nuts? No? I don't need But are
Speaker 2: walking around in their eighties they weren't believing that wasn't
Speaker 2: on their bucket list.
Speaker 1: That just that was like something slipped okay, seriously, something
Speaker 1: fucking slipped by, and some woman was like, don't worry,
Speaker 1: I'm on that pill wink wing.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I don't know. So yeah, but grandkids I
Speaker 2: just don't want to think about yet.
Speaker 1: I mean, people love them, they say good things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: people recommend it. Oh yeah no no, I definitely one day,
Speaker 1: but not anytime soon. Not today, No, not today, honey.
Speaker 1: I'd like to also. Now we're just rambling, but whatever.
Speaker 1: That's why we have a producer jackline. You can cut
Speaker 1: in paste. But like, I'd like to just do things
Speaker 1: that are like when you say creative, like not work,
Speaker 1: like you always want to so you always want to work.
Speaker 2: Well, I always want to do creative things.
Speaker 1: I want to make nice stuff like i'd like to. Lately,
Speaker 1: I've been putting this stuff on social media about like
Speaker 1: cooking because I'm so bad at it, and so I've
Speaker 1: been doing things where I'm cooking whatever shitty thing I'm cooking,
Speaker 1: and just it's like fun. It's like it's like performing
Speaker 1: a little bit, you know, and like just thinking about
Speaker 1: it and thinking, like maybe one night I'll do an
Speaker 1: edible and we'll call it edible cooking. Well, come over
Speaker 1: and do that and then we'll Because I sock at cooking,
Speaker 1: so so do I. Well, the reason I suck at
Speaker 1: cooking is because I never wanted to cook. Because I
Speaker 1: never wanted to taste of food, right, Yeah, so I
Speaker 1: suck at it just because I suck at it and
Speaker 1: I was never interested in doing it, and like, but
Speaker 1: like making these little videos about it is kind of funny.
Speaker 1: I did like a one. I have a one in
Speaker 1: bringing watch Chicken. I have to watch that. You don't
Speaker 1: have to watch that, but I do. I'm just saying
Speaker 1: my point. The bigger point is that like doing fun
Speaker 1: stuff like that, you know not yea, I don't have to.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to necessarily change the world, but like
Speaker 1: being creative like that. Yeah, And I think that being
Speaker 1: funny and coming up with things. I do really enjoy that.
Speaker 1: Whether or not you know you paste on TikTok.
Speaker 2: I am not on TikTok. I don't even have an account.
Speaker 2: I think I made an account once just to check
Speaker 2: like my daughter's content, but.
Speaker 1: I don't I've never been on it.
Speaker 2: And I think that I felt like I missed the
Speaker 2: boat on doing those kind of things.
Speaker 1: You may have there, maybe taking it down it was
Speaker 1: all that controversy. But yeah, but like stuff like that,
Speaker 1: but I think is fun. I would also like to
Speaker 1: give back. I should probably say that even though that
Speaker 1: has not come out, but do something meaningful in this world. Actually, like, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: idea something good we have. Of course we've done good
Speaker 1: things in this world, but something that has nothing to
Speaker 1: do with me.
Speaker 2: But by the way, I tell you something funny follow
Speaker 2: up to the TikTok things. So I always had this
Speaker 2: regret that I didn't get on TikTok early enough. Right,
Speaker 2: So when Threads started, I was like, I'm gonna be
Speaker 2: the first motherfucker on Threads. Iain. I was like all
Speaker 2: about Threads for like a month, and then I was like,
Speaker 2: you know what, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't even know what thread is, honey.
Speaker 2: Sometimes on my Instagram, the Facebook version of Twitter, I.
Speaker 1: Don't even know what that means. And I don't want
Speaker 1: to know Instagram.
Speaker 2: That's it. I have no other bucket list items. All right, Well,
Speaker 2: listen you guys if you want to, I keep saying
Speaker 2: at the end of every show, but if you guys
Speaker 2: have any ideas there are things you want us to
Speaker 2: talk about, it would be so great. I think we
Speaker 2: really should watch that movie.
Speaker 1: Okay about it. We're definitely watching them. What do you
Speaker 1: mean in ten minutes? Okay, yeah, but no.
Speaker 2: I'm serious. This was so fun it always is fun. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I hope you guys are having fun. We appreciate your
Speaker 1: listening a lot.
Speaker 2: All right, We love you guys until next time.
Speaker 1: Bye bye,