1 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing, 2 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: My chance to talk with artists, policymakers and performers, to 3 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: hear their stories, what inspires their creations, what decisions change 4 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: their careers, what relationships influenced their work. Here's a quote, 5 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: Who died and made you? Dear Abbey? It was an insult, 6 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: no matter how you spun it, but a particularly fraught 7 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: one for Philip Galanas after the debut of his New 8 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: York Times advice column in two thousand eight. Dear Abbey 9 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,919 Speaker 1: had been his guiding force as a boy, growing up 10 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: with a distant father and mother who refused to accept 11 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,919 Speaker 1: that her son was gay. Dear Abbey left him with 12 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: nothing but answers. Some people might have given up, but Gallanis, 13 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: who had already sailed through Yale, undergrad and law school, 14 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: isn't one of them. He kept writing the column, kept 15 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: answering questions about bullying, ex boyfriends, and sibling rivalry, and 16 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,320 Speaker 1: nine years later, he still is. It's one of many 17 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: endearing qualities. The warm and witty lawyer turned writer possesses 18 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: quiet refusal to be anything but himself. In his weekly 19 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: column Social Cues, he pushes readers to do the same, 20 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 1: even if that means temporarily suspending the truth. I lie 21 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: like a rug and generally, um, I mean, I would 22 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: never lie, you know, I would never become a fraud. 23 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 1: I'd never lie and steal to steal from someone, but 24 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: to smooth over something I'd like every single day of 25 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: the week and twice on Sunday, definitely. But when you're 26 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: in a conflict with your significant other, I find I lie. 27 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: Some of the time. I'm lying to just cast a 28 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: spray of ether over the whole room so we can 29 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: all rest. Well, I'm very defensive, so it doesn't really 30 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: even occurred to me. Not occurred doesn't sink in that 31 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: I am wrong sometimes for days or weeks later. But 32 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: you can't have a fight going on with your partner 33 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: for weeks until it actually occurs to you. So I do. 34 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: I get down immediately, and I lie, and then and 35 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: I said, I'm sorry, it's all my fault. And then 36 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: most of the time when he says to me, know, 37 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: that was really shitty what you did, I'll three days later, 38 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: four days later, it well, it will hit me and 39 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: I'll go, you know, yeah, that's right. But growing up 40 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:40,399 Speaker 1: I think the way that I did. The first impulse 41 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,239 Speaker 1: had to be I was not to blame. You weren't 42 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: I was in my house, it was who was to blame? 43 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: Everybody is running to the to the blameless corner. And 44 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: I don't think my mother ever apologized one single time 45 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,679 Speaker 1: in her life for anything so funny. Never. And when 46 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: I was in therapy, when I started to really you know, 47 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: become an adult in my twenties and thirties, thanks to 48 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: a guy who lives, you know, right around the corner 49 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 1: from us, and I would go to see him twice 50 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 1: or three times a week, and he would say, before 51 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: we get anywhere, you've got to get angry with your mother. 52 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: You've got to go tell her, or tell me, or 53 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: tell someone all the things that you've got pent up 54 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: inside of you. And so I did it with him, 55 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: and he said, I think you need to go do 56 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 1: this one thing with her. And I went to her 57 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: and it was about an episode that happened when I 58 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: was you know, maybe seven or eight or something like that. 59 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: It was when it first started to occur to her 60 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: that she had a gay kid on her hands, and 61 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: she was really, you know, in the what would have 62 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: in the seven early seventies, you wouldn't be thrilled about it. 63 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: But she was gonna always be in my corner. But 64 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: she wasn't happy. So I was like, that clear, how 65 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: did she make by shipping into a shrink? By she 66 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: made that clear to you by saying you need to 67 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: go talk to somebody, right, and by also encouraging. I mean, 68 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 1: it starts in very subtle ways, like, you know, have 69 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 1: you ever thought about maybe being the principal when you 70 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: play school as opposed to you know, the home act teacher, 71 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 1: something like, yeah, pouring tea for everyone exactly. Um, So 72 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 1: she starts that way, and then it gets to like 73 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,239 Speaker 1: all of a sudden coaching. Yeah that the Teddy Bear 74 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: collection disappears one day because and in its place is 75 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: a bunch of baseball cards and you've never picked up 76 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: a mint in your life. And but so I go 77 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,479 Speaker 1: and say to her, I say to her, I said 78 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:54,039 Speaker 1: to her this thing. I remember that. I remember really clearly, 79 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 1: this ugly episode we had on the drive to this train. 80 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: Isn't Vermond the wilds of Vermond? And she, to her credit, 81 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: she's found the one shrink who deals with kids in 82 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: the woods of Vermont. And she says something to me about, 83 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: you know, you could make more of an effort with 84 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: your father, you know, And I said, well, Mom, he 85 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:16,919 Speaker 1: doesn't really you know. He comes home for dinner and 86 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: then he retreats to his study and that's the end 87 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 1: of him for the night. I said, he doesn't really 88 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: talk to me either. And I had siblings, two brothers, 89 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: two brothers, both younger. They were one is and with 90 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:35,679 Speaker 1: both of them he could do more boy type stuff. 91 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 1: I mean, he was always doing the right thing. So 92 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: he'd come home from his day at work, he'd offered 93 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 1: to play catch. I didn't really want to play your brother, 94 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 1: Your brother who was gay, at least he was bodybuilding 95 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: in the gym. At least he was he was trying 96 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: to be. He was trying to be what everybody wanted 97 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 1: him to be. I was the first one. I was 98 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: definitely trying to be people pleaser. But I invented myself 99 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: before them, they before they came along. So I just 100 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 1: actually thought that I was supposed to do things I 101 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: like doing. But that's really not true. Willful, right, So 102 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: she so on the way to the strength this day, 103 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: she says to me, the situation with your father is 104 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 1: totally your fault. I mean, you're the one who's not 105 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: if you're the problem. If you actually engaged this wonderful 106 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: stand up guy, he'd be locked in that study because 107 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: of you. Exactly so years later, I said to her, 108 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: I said to her, I really thought I needed to, like, 109 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to her about that, because not 110 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 1: because I wanted to blame her. She didn't know what 111 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: was coming down the pike anymore than anyone else did. 112 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: But I I said to her, you know, I just 113 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: I wanted to tell you this story, and I wanted 114 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: to tell you how much this story lives with me 115 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: all the time. And she looked at me and she said, 116 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 1: you know, what is so wonderful about you, Philip, And 117 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: I knew something really shitty was going to come down play. 118 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 1: She said, what's wonderful about you is their active imagination. 119 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: I just love it. And so she just denied it, 120 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: shut it down. She couldn't even say I mean, as 121 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: any right thinking adult would say, like, you know, it's 122 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: a one car drive. It was just to say wow, 123 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: I don't obviously she wouldn't remember it, but just to say, wow, 124 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: it's so great that you remember that. I'm so sorry 125 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: if that if I made you feel that way. I mean, 126 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: she didn't put the idea that you were asked to do, 127 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: the understanding, the idea that you were asked to do, 128 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: the reaching. I think the only way to survive in 129 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: my family was to triangulate stuff. There's no way that 130 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: my mother or my father was there We're going to 131 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: look at me and go good boy. So the best 132 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: I could do was sort of create a triangle out 133 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: of the two of them and try to play from 134 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: each other, all play them off against each other enough 135 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: to get a little tiny bit of attention that way, like, 136 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: you might be a horrible kid, but at least you're 137 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: not as horrible as this. Or did you feel you 138 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: were a horrible kid? Ahmed? Because in general it worked 139 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: its way to in general, but we had two big 140 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: secrets in the family. One was my mother was clearly saying, 141 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: there's something very wrong with you. I didn't even have 142 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: no the word. I didn't know that the problem with 143 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: me was that it would end up with me being 144 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: attracted to other boys that didn't even I'm seven or eight. 145 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: I didn't even get that, but I knew that was 146 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: a problem. Number one, your sexuality and the problem Number 147 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:48,319 Speaker 1: two was that we had a father who was going 148 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:53,559 Speaker 1: through the motions but would then disappear. But we were 149 00:08:53,800 --> 00:09:00,200 Speaker 1: never allowed to let anyone know that our family only 150 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 1: in private, was any different from anybody else. Yeah, so 151 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: there were two big secrets and they were both really 152 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: I mean, now I know we've all got what's so 153 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: great is when you get to a point and you 154 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: realize you had two secrets, and Emily had two secrets, 155 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: and Tom had two secrets, and we all had two 156 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: secrets and or three and we had somehow, Yeah, march 157 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: through the world and diffuse and diffused. Your mother wanted 158 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: you to attempt to reach your father in a way 159 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: that she could not. One Christmas and this was one 160 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: of the things that I once later tried to talk 161 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: to her about too. She said to me, I'm Christmas Eve. 162 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: I knew I was old enough to know that. You know, 163 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: we were pretty pretty well off. So they everything was there, 164 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: was never in We were never wanting for anything, and 165 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: they almost overdid it to overcompensate for all the stuff 166 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: they knew they weren't doing. So I don't know where 167 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: the hell My dad would ask where I'm Christmas Eve. 168 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: At seven o'clock or eight o'clock. My dad is at large, 169 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: and my brothers are getting into bed. And I said 170 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: to my mother, I can help you bring the presents, 171 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 1: because there were so many presents, lots of presents. And 172 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: she said to me, oh, I didn't. I haven't gotten 173 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: any of the presents yet, and I would have been 174 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: like ten, and she said, I said, well, but mom, 175 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:49,839 Speaker 1: everything is going to be closed, and tomorrow's Chris and 176 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: tomorrow's Christmas. And I was thinking, actually, and I feel 177 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,199 Speaker 1: like maybe I wasn't always so shitty, because I actually 178 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,319 Speaker 1: think I was thinking of my brothers and I thought, well, 179 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 1: what what are we going to do? And she said 180 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 1: I don't know, because I don't have any money either. 181 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: And I ran upstairs and through you know, being a 182 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 1: shitty kid, through stealing from my father's pants every night, 183 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: you know, and putting things together, maybe had like forty 184 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 1: dollars or fifty dollars hidden away. And I came down 185 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: and brought it to her, and she thought that that 186 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: was funny and wonderful that I had been generous. But 187 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: she didn't see any of this money I stole from dad. 188 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: Let's use that she didn't see the trauma of how 189 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: scary it was for me to think there wasn't going 190 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: to be any Christmas family there there were tons. When 191 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 1: did they come in? She she had just lied. She 192 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 1: thought it was like a funny thing. I mean, my 193 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: mother would treated me like very much like I should 194 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: have been an adult and understood of course they were testing, 195 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 1: but she wasn't going to involve me in bringing them down. 196 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 1: It would all happen later when I was in bed too. 197 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 1: But I had a nervous breakdown and because I thought 198 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: that this would be the year there wasn't going to 199 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:18,959 Speaker 1: be Christmas and in the Galana's household, and she thought, 200 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,599 Speaker 1: she's I can sort of remember her laughing and and 201 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: and at the time I think I was just profoundly relieved. 202 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: But it's the kind of thing where you can spend, 203 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: you know, months on a story like that. At the shrink, 204 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: you know who was wearing what? Where did I say 205 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: that I'm gonna write a movie. I'm gonna steal that 206 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: from movie? Now? You went to boarding school where I 207 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 1: went to boarding school at this place called Deerfield Academy. 208 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: But at the time when I went in the in 209 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 1: the seventies and eighties, it was still all boys, so 210 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: it was kind of that for you. No, no, it 211 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: was really they were dumb boys. It's so it's so funny, 212 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: because why would you not make a school coach. I mean, 213 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 1: it's like, if you do make something co ed, the 214 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: first thing you do is you get rid of the 215 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: really bad ones on the bottom, and all the boats 216 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: rise up because all the girls are bright, and then 217 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 1: you keep the bright boys. But this was a place. 218 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: It was like a nesting pen for like lesser semi 219 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 1: retarded Rockefellers, and so it was people that they wanted 220 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: out of the house. They were shelving them. Yeah, it was. 221 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: It was a weird little school. And also what you 222 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: picked this up kind of a weird impulse. If you're 223 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 1: sending a boy two a school to butch him up 224 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: a little bit and see if there's like a last 225 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: ditch effort to make him straight, why in God's name 226 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 1: would you choose an all boys school to do it. 227 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: It's a very straights training man is playing. All the 228 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: teachers are claud or not all, but you know a 229 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: good percentage of them in my day where they were 230 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: all you you've read about choked in the Yeah, well 231 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: it was like that. They were, but of course the teachers, 232 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:02,559 Speaker 1: the closet Kate's teachers, they're never coming after. I mean, 233 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: I would, you know, had elaborate fantasies at fifteen about 234 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: you know, the man who taught English and he was 235 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: like my dream boat. But they would of course be 236 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: after the lacrosse players who didn't have you know, and 237 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: it's a terrible I don't mean to do with years. 238 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: I was about there for four years, and there were 239 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: good things that happened. No, it's to me. It was 240 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: a wonderful place because it took me out of a 241 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: household where I felt ashamed every time I turned around. 242 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: But I what I learned to do there was to 243 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: create a public persona. When I first got there, I thought, 244 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: oh my god, I am going to be toast. These 245 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: guys are gonna beat me up. They're gonna tease the 246 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: hell out of me. It's going to be really tough. 247 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: But very quickly I saw that if I could be eccentric, 248 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 1: and if I could be funny, and if I could 249 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: be a little funny, and unfortunately the funny that they 250 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: crave in an environment like that is mean funny. So 251 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: I developed not the goodhearted sense of humor. But I 252 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: took a page out of your mother's humor book and 253 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: my mother's humor book, which was a kind of Betty 254 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: Davis meanness. But it I learned how to survive. I 255 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: learned how to It's what I call it's what I 256 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: call my Grandville Thorndyke theory. And I always say that 257 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: you could be amongst the most filthy flea bitten, you know, 258 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: just moronic rattle, and if you can entertain them, you 259 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: buy yourself that they take the noose off your neck. Absolutely, 260 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: And I met a couple of kids there who really 261 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: became good friends. I mean they were It was the 262 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: first time I really made good friends. And there were 263 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: a couple of teachers there who were really in uraging 264 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: and so yeah, on balance, it was a very positive 265 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: experience for me, mostly because I think my dad's situation 266 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: at home, even though nobody would talk about it, he 267 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: was sort of slowly getting more depressed, and I was 268 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: not forced to worry about that. So you go off 269 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: to go to college from So I go off to 270 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: go to college. I go to Yale. Was that a 271 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: fed company or did you want to go to Yale? 272 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: Other places? You want to. My parents were really really 273 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: interesting that way. My parents didn't care at all. I 274 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: want you to understand the kind of well off they were. 275 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: My parents were well off because my dad's father, who 276 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: was a Greek immigrant who came to this country and no, no, no, 277 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: his job was to go around and take the pennies 278 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: and nickels out of you know, gumball machines and and 279 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: and collect money and collect money and deliver it to somebody. 280 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: And he got where he got by working twenty hours 281 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 1: a day. And my dad was, you know, largely employed 282 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: by him, and my dad's brother was They built into 283 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: a big company. They built it, they bought real estate 284 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 1: and then and they were and they were really really 285 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 1: hard working. The idea that they had a kid who 286 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:28,880 Speaker 1: wanted to study Emily Dickinson, Yes, I was literature. They 287 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 1: didn't think that was good. Education was very very highly regarded, 288 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 1: but they certainly didn't They thought that I was maybe 289 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 1: taking it a bit far. So when you go to Yale, 290 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:44,959 Speaker 1: what was Yale? Yale was heaven. If I could send everyone, 291 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: if if I could give everyone the four years go 292 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: to Yale, Yeah, I had the best. I mean, it 293 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: really worked for me. People didn't want me to be 294 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 1: anything different than I was. I got to stop lying. 295 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 1: People were like, well, yeah, well of course you're gay. 296 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: It's obvious you're gay. Who cares? Um, it was the 297 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: gay scene like at the Yale then Jodie Foster and me. 298 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: It was like it was around So it was no, 299 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: it was the wonderful It was sort of. It was 300 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: all yeah, it was a great time and the student 301 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: and four years were you there? Um, from nineteen eighty 302 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: one to your five years? Okay, so that period comes 303 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: to an end. And as it comes to an end, 304 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,159 Speaker 1: who are you well at that? What happened that you're 305 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:39,120 Speaker 1: going to become an attorney? Well, no, no, no, I'm 306 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: so not going to become an attorney. I go and 307 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: take my first job, which is working at the New 308 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: York Times as a copy boy. They have these old 309 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: this is like six or so eight seven. They have 310 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 1: these fat old men who sit behind desks and they 311 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,680 Speaker 1: rip a piece of paper off and they go international 312 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:00,719 Speaker 1: and they hand it to me. And my job is 313 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 1: I walk it to the international desk, and then I 314 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 1: walk back to the old man and he rips another 315 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: piece off and he goes culture and Hearthur, I'm there 316 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 1: for like two weeks and I'm going get get me 317 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 1: out of here. This isn't working. So it did. And 318 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:24,120 Speaker 1: and I'm also not a journalist really, because they would 319 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,880 Speaker 1: encourage us to go right stories after hours, and lots 320 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: of people would want to go to you know, there'd 321 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: be a shooting and they'd want to figure out who 322 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: did it, or where how it happened, or why I 323 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 1: came alive at Christmas? Remember in the Metropolitan section there 324 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: used to be this these this little feature called Remember 325 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: the Neediest, and we go. I'd go up to Harm, 326 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: I'd go up to Harlem and I'd sit in the 327 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 1: room and I think, I want to understand how these 328 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:02,120 Speaker 1: people got to this place? How do they feel about this? 329 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: And so I was always interested in the personality, the dynamics, 330 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: and like the woman is sitting there, she angry that 331 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:16,199 Speaker 1: she's you know, she's got this terrible school system for 332 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: her disabled daughter. Is she does she does? She just does? 333 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: She want help? Is is the husband helping? Where is 334 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: the husband? How did all this happen? Those were the 335 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 1: kind of stories that I liked, And so like within 336 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: a few weeks they sent me up to work for 337 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: Carrie Donovan in the magazine, and I thought that that 338 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: was going to be what I would do, and then 339 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: my dad killed himself. Coming up, Philip Galanis looks back 340 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: on an interview with former President Barack Obama and Emmy 341 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: Award winning actor Brian Cranston. In the literary world, a 342 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: few names hold more weight than The New Yorker's longtime 343 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: editor David Remnick. As a writer, I take too much 344 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: time clearing my throat in the beginning of the piece, 345 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: and I hope I've learned myself to get rid of 346 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: a lot of the crap. But very often my editor, 347 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: Henry Finder, will just very quietly take a pen. He's 348 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,880 Speaker 1: your editor. Oh yeah, that's who edits you. Oh yeah, 349 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: and he's great. He's unbelievable. To hear more about David 350 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: Remnick's story, go to Here's the Thing dot org. This 351 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,120 Speaker 1: is Alec Baldwin, and you were listening to Here's the Thing. 352 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 1: Philip Galanus's mom once blamed him for his father's depression, 353 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: but he didn't let that stifle him. After receiving a 354 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: phone call from his uncle that his father had ended 355 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: his life, Philip sprang into action immediately. I came home, 356 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: went back to Vermont. And I'll tell you something that 357 00:21:55,920 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: I've never said out loud before. I found out the 358 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 1: morning after I'd had my first one night stand. So 359 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: all through the night, my not my mother, because she 360 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: was so zonked out. My mom was um. Any any 361 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: resentment I have for my mom disappears in a second 362 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 1: if I think of her walking out that back door 363 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: and having to find her husband having in the yard, 364 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: in the yard, having shot his head off with a rifle, 365 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: and which you all thought was inevitable. You thought you 366 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: thought that was coming anyway, well, or you weren't sure. 367 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: I don't think anyone thought it was coming. I think 368 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,919 Speaker 1: everyone thought he's you know, he was the guy who 369 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: did the right thing all that. He went to work 370 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: every day, he came home, he'd throw catch and then 371 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: he should go and he'd sit and he'd watch television. 372 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 1: He was never treated for his depression formally. He I 373 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 1: think my mother tried to intervene a few times. But 374 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: this is before no shrinks, No there. He He was 375 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: not a talk therapy person. You have to be a 376 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 1: you have to be a verbal person. Yeh. And medicine 377 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: back then was rough, and it would you know, it 378 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 1: would totally wipe you out. So I'm off having my 379 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 1: first one night stand and my uncle, my mother's brother, 380 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: is trying to reach me, trying to reach me, and 381 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,640 Speaker 1: I four cell phones. This is a way before cell phones. 382 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:34,119 Speaker 1: This is yeah, so he is everyone's trying to reach me. 383 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: Where is he? Where is he? Where is he? Where 384 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 1: is he? And I come in to work and I'm 385 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: on the Upper West Side with a person I've just met, 386 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: and it was I thought, Wow, this is so great. 387 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: I mean because the other thing I should say is 388 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: at Yale people we were all we talked about being 389 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: gay a lot, but there wasn't a lot of what 390 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: nobody was doing a lot. So um, I was very 391 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: sexually and experienced. I thought, oh god, this is the 392 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: most miraculous this thing. I'm having sex. It's great. And 393 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: then the next morning I walk into work and I 394 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 1: see every eye is on me, and I'm thinking, wow, 395 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: can they tell that I've just had sex? And I thought, 396 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: because they're really this, I'm working on and walking on air. 397 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: And what really has happened is my uncle has been 398 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: trying to has been calling every fifteen minutes for the 399 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 1: last hour looking for me, and So I get to 400 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:39,360 Speaker 1: my little copyboy station and I am pulled aside by 401 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: a woman called Marie, who is the copyboy dead mother, 402 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: dead mother. She takes me into a room and says, 403 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: I need you to call your uncle and I'm going 404 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: to give you some space. I'm gonna give you my office. 405 00:24:54,280 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, doesn't this doesn't feel right? But my 406 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 1: but my impulse went to my mother's dad, and um, 407 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: because because that would have been the end of I mean, 408 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: because she was my jailer. She's my jailer, but she's 409 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 1: also my savior and everything. And when I reached my 410 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: uncle and he says, your father is dead, and this 411 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 1: is something I feel terribly guilty about for you know, 412 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:35,120 Speaker 1: the next ten years, I think, few it wasn't my mother, 413 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: She's okay, And then it sinks in that my father's dead. 414 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: And there he when a present when such a big 415 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 1: part of your life is really is it is really 416 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: more of an absence than a presence. It was really 417 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: complicated to know what to feel. I mean, he was 418 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 1: a wonderful man, never did a mean thing. He's a 419 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: decent guy. But I just didn't have any I didn't have, 420 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: you know, I didn't. It was like in the chorus line, 421 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: I had to Yeah, It's like nothing. It's like, I'm 422 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: I feel the air, I feel the CRISTI and I 423 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: go to Grand Central. I get on a train. I 424 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: get on a train that's going the wrong way. I 425 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: get on a train that's not going I mean, I'm 426 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: I've taken this train ride a thousand times. My uncle 427 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: lives in Westport. All I had to do it was 428 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 1: to get from Grand Central to Westport. And for some reason, 429 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 1: I get on there. I'm so I'm so shaken by 430 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 1: it that I get online. I don't know I'm going 431 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: to Westchester or something like that. Finally I get there 432 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 1: and we get to my my uncle picks me up. 433 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: He's my uncle is still alive, and he's in He 434 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:59,360 Speaker 1: is the loveliest man, my mother's brother. He's an ophthalmology. 435 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 1: He wasn't homologist and a great, great guy, the first 436 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:08,120 Speaker 1: sort of gay person. I didn't know because he had 437 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: a tenant, and I was thinking, and now you think, like, well, 438 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: he's a surgeon, why does he need a tenant in 439 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:20,479 Speaker 1: his house? But that's how it was told to us, 440 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 1: and so for a very long time he has a 441 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 1: tenant in his house. Um, and so he drives me 442 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: to Vermont and everyone is administered a valium. I don't 443 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,640 Speaker 1: know what I mean. I guess they thought we all 444 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 1: needed it. They were like we were just they gave 445 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 1: us value. For several days, people just kept giving us 446 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 1: more valum, like that was the thing we needed. But 447 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: and it was then. It was then that I thought 448 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: I need to grow up. I need to become the 449 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: man now. So that's what made me go to Yale 450 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 1: Law school. I did, I had. I would never have 451 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 1: gone to law school except for this, because what was 452 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: the feeling to find that boo? Because you're so smart, 453 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,200 Speaker 1: you go, I'm gonna man up here, whether you want 454 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,120 Speaker 1: to do? Why did you be quite going to Yale 455 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: because you were going to have a career that was 456 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: a serious Because I was going to have a career 457 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,640 Speaker 1: that was going to be serious. Did well, Yeah, getting 458 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: into law school was not a problem. Not in Bang. 459 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 1: You're in Yale Law School and I go, and I 460 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:29,680 Speaker 1: made a life changing decision based on I'm gonna be 461 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 1: an actor and I wouldn't bang, and I think him 462 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: an actress. Some were stupid, sort of emotional. I had 463 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: some like little some little thing in the back of 464 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: my head said this was important and this was not important, 465 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: and this would be what a man would do, and 466 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: this would be what a This is responsible, This is responsibility, 467 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: This is what my my dad doing, Doing the right thing, 468 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: doing the right in honor of my dad maybe became 469 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: going to laws. So when you go to law school 470 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: and you're there, are you choking it down that it's tough? 471 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: Or do you fall in love with Can I tell 472 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: you again? I would say I sound like an advertisement 473 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: for Yale, but it was. I've never been in a 474 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: room with so many smart, engaged people and they're only 475 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: talking about things that are interesting, the constitution matter. You're 476 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 1: talking about things that really matter. It was the first time, 477 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: and this is in the early nineties, and we're talking 478 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: about what we are now dealing with issues that we're 479 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: now dealing with, the warehousing of men of color in 480 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: the prisons instead of I mean, and we're really seriously grappling, 481 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: grappling with this stuff. And I loved it, and then 482 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: I graduated and it is the worst most mind numbing 483 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: work you can being the law. You're practicing law. It's 484 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 1: a fete company. You're gonna go to some top firm 485 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: they recruited. You can I tell you a smarter person, 486 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 1: a person who would have considered more, would have been 487 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: less horrorsh than I was. I looked at the firms 488 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: and I said, what, what firm was paying what? So? 489 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: I was interested in the top ten firms who were 490 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: paying the most. Yeah, and I just go and what 491 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 1: kind of work do they have you doing? Year one? 492 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: In the very beginning, I'm working in mergers and acquisitions, 493 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 1: and it could not be less. I don't understand anything 494 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: that's going on because I've been talking about the fourteenth 495 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: Amendment for three years and yeah, and all of a 496 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: sudden they're saying, take a look at the balance sheet, 497 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: make sure they can really afford this note. And I'm thinking, 498 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: what note is that I'm looking for? Like the note 499 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: that miss so and so passed to somebody else or 500 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:54,479 Speaker 1: playing the piano and the note. So quickly, very very quickly, 501 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: I get myself transferred to the entertainment department. Where where 502 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: so I'm thinking, okay, well this breathe. I was like, okay, 503 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: I've got to work out a royalty. Yeah, I can 504 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: do this. I work with mostly with theater and fine 505 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 1: arts and music. I don't want to get too greatest 506 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: hits here, but then you wind up working with I'm 507 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: working with amazing clients. I'm working with Stephenson, I'm working 508 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: with Jerry Herman, I'm working with Lincoln Center Theater huge, 509 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: I'm working with Scott rudin Um. I really thought this 510 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 1: is fantastic. This is about as good as it could get. 511 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 1: And after two years of it, I'm realizing, Oh, if 512 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: I go look at what Stephen Sondheim's personal assistant is 513 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 1: doing and I look at what I'm doing, there's really 514 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 1: not that big a difference being a lawyer unless you're 515 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: doing something that it's very ad hoc. It is very 516 00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 1: ad hoc. And working on the fourteen revival of Company 517 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: by a you know, yeah, the great doing the contracts 518 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 1: and working out the royalty pools and is Wendy wasser 519 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: Stein going to fly business class or coach. It's not fascinating. 520 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: But I'm getting paid a lot. So I'm going, well, 521 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: I think this is what I want. I want to 522 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 1: be paid, talking about the constitution anymore small. I want 523 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 1: to be paid, but it's very small, And so I thought, Okay, 524 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: the way I'm gonna the way I'm going to bridge 525 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 1: this because, um, my parents are also very big or 526 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: my mother at this point is also very big on 527 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: everybody pulls their own weight. You were given a wonderful 528 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 1: first class education, and now you will pay you'll support yourself, 529 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: go off into the world. Go. So it wasn't like 530 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: I could have had the luxury. I mean, good people, 531 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: truly good, better people than I do, would go work 532 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 1: for the A C. L U and they would live 533 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: in a land so they'd live in Massapequa and they 534 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: would take the train in and they'd work for dollars 535 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: a year and they do work that they really cared about. 536 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 1: But I was a little too horsh for that, and 537 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: so I wanted to be in business. I wanted to 538 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: stay working at a firm where I was going to 539 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: get paid. But here's what it was interesting to me 540 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 1: from the moment I met you. You know, you're like 541 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 1: cave it. You know, this is really bright and this 542 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: wit and this warmth is everything sewn into that fabric. 543 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: And when I met you, I thought, God, this guy 544 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 1: is just so fun to talk to you. I mean, 545 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 1: it's so bright and funny and in statche when are 546 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 1: you there? Does someone see that in you. Does someone 547 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: tap you on the shoulder and go, you gotta get 548 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: out of here, or do you just do that for yourself? 549 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: Know what happens is I start thinking the way I'm 550 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 1: going to bridge all this is that I'm going to 551 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: do something creative on my own. So I'm gonna wake up, 552 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 1: I'm gonna set my alarm at five o'clock every morning, 553 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 1: and I'm going to start writing a novel. I've got 554 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: a novel to write, and that is going to be 555 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 1: the thing I really care about. And I'm going to 556 00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: go into Paul Weiss or you know whatever league job 557 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 1: I m m in that's going to pay the bills 558 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: for living on in the apartment that I live in. 559 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 1: And I do it, and I wait, I mean, because 560 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,880 Speaker 1: the one great quality I think I have his discipline. 561 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 1: I set that alarm clock and I'm up at five 562 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning. So for two hours I'd write 563 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 1: and then I'd go into work. And I published the novel. 564 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:29,919 Speaker 1: And it is a one failure. It gets. It gets 565 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,879 Speaker 1: really doesn't make you go running back into the arms 566 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: of the offer. You know, it gets great, great reviews 567 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,840 Speaker 1: and Barnes and Noble makes me a discover great new writers, 568 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 1: and Sunny met Office is like, oh yeah, I'm very 569 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 1: proud of the book. Everybody's like, this is gonna be 570 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 1: I mean, you were going to sell this book to 571 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:53,239 Speaker 1: the movies. We're gonna and absolutely nothing happens. I'm like, 572 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 1: it's like dropping a feather into a well and waiting 573 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,319 Speaker 1: for the noise. When it in a little and then 574 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,320 Speaker 1: there's there ain't no noise. But all of a sudden, 575 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 1: out of comes a call from an editor at The 576 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:12,320 Speaker 1: New York Times who says, please come and write for 577 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,400 Speaker 1: us where they want you to write. Well. At the time, 578 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,319 Speaker 1: I was working for a company that was owned by 579 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,879 Speaker 1: uh Lorne Michaels and Barry Diller and Dick Snyder called 580 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 1: Golden Books Golden Books Family Entertainment. And the more it failed, 581 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 1: the higher I rose, because you know, smart people would leave, 582 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,880 Speaker 1: but I kind of thought they were all interesting personalities, 583 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 1: and I stayed and how there um I was there 584 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,919 Speaker 1: until it failed so badly it went into bankruptcy court, 585 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 1: and then I negotiated the sale of the thing to 586 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 1: various enterprises. Uh So, so that's where I am, and 587 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 1: the New York Times calls, and I thought, well, this 588 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 1: is really really interesting. First they wanted me to do 589 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 1: a column, you know, one of those you'd know everything 590 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,320 Speaker 1: about me and my boyfriend and my dog. And it 591 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 1: was supposed to be about my life, the life of 592 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: you know, a metropolitan gentleman. Yeah, going around to the 593 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 1: movies and what I saw at the theater, and I thought, 594 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 1: people will be so fucking like it's like I can 595 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 1: see that. For three weeks, they said, come in with 596 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 1: a list, Philip, lightly from now. They said, come with 597 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 1: a list of twenty five columns that you'll write. And 598 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,239 Speaker 1: I could come in with like three. I had three, 599 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:35,839 Speaker 1: and I thought, I thought, I know what I need 600 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:37,800 Speaker 1: to do. I need to switch the pitch on this. 601 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 1: And I said, you know, I think people would be 602 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: a lot more interested if they could write into me 603 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:48,479 Speaker 1: for advice. And they said, that is the tackiest idea 604 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 1: we've ever heard. Thank you very much. You can show 605 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,360 Speaker 1: yourself the door. And then they thought about it some 606 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 1: and we did it. What was the column call It's 607 00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 1: called Social Cues. It's still runs to this day. It's 608 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: me the founder and I was the founder of it. 609 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:07,760 Speaker 1: And then that grew into I developed a show at HBO. 610 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,239 Speaker 1: I developed a show. At CBS, we developed shows about 611 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 1: an advice columnist who's you know, a little got a 612 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,880 Speaker 1: little spring in his little bottle rocket at every single place, 613 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,359 Speaker 1: intend of never it's never seen the light of day 614 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,840 Speaker 1: because it shouldn't, because it's a show about an advice columnist. 615 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:29,840 Speaker 1: So you're back at the Times and what was the 616 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: gap in between twenty years? Twenty year gap? So how 617 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,399 Speaker 1: was the Times different when you go back? Well, now 618 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 1: they're all obviously it's different, But what's your description back then? 619 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 1: Was it was? Yeah? They were they were so grand. 620 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 1: They were in this big, shabby building and everybody was 621 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 1: jostling next to each other. They were a little tight 622 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 1: for space. People were the phone was ringing off the hook. 623 00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,319 Speaker 1: Now you go back and it's really I mean, it's 624 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,839 Speaker 1: the it's not the failing New York Times, but it's 625 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,400 Speaker 1: like all media. It's boy, they're sure are some empty 626 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,719 Speaker 1: cautious New York Sure are some empty desks, cautious New 627 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 1: York Times? And how do we deal with this? But 628 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:15,360 Speaker 1: I want to interject something that this is so interesting. 629 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,360 Speaker 1: We have Jill Abramson on the show, and she was 630 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 1: very gracious, and she was of course more um disclosive 631 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,160 Speaker 1: than anybody in that position before. And New York Magazine 632 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,440 Speaker 1: reports that Sulzberger was complaining to people that she talks 633 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:32,840 Speaker 1: too much to the press, she's too out there in 634 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,360 Speaker 1: that role, and he doesn't like that she's too media centric, 635 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,400 Speaker 1: and he cited her appearance on My show that he 636 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,239 Speaker 1: didn't like that. And I thought to myself, all we 637 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,799 Speaker 1: did was kissed the ass of the Times. I mean, 638 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,239 Speaker 1: I am somebody who I have a very separate relationship, 639 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,279 Speaker 1: but I'm kind of proud of myself that I read 640 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,759 Speaker 1: the Times every day. I'm a big fan of The Times. 641 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:53,440 Speaker 1: I just don't like when I read my name in 642 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:55,879 Speaker 1: the Times. Well, it's in big It's a big part 643 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:57,839 Speaker 1: of the change that we're talking about. In the thirty 644 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: year period. It was before the event of celebrity journalism. 645 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,879 Speaker 1: People there was there was maybe did people magazine maybe 646 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,320 Speaker 1: had just started when we when I was when I 647 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,680 Speaker 1: was first there, and now that is what the news is. 648 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:16,480 Speaker 1: The news is, you're the news. I mean, it's very hard. 649 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:18,799 Speaker 1: I admire the guys and women who were up there. 650 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 1: I mean I personally, by the way, I think Joe 651 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:25,959 Speaker 1: Abramson was tremendous because she also had a great people sense. 652 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,960 Speaker 1: When I got I started doing this other I used 653 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 1: the social cues column to sort of segue into the 654 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 1: table for three column, which you've done with me and um. 655 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:41,719 Speaker 1: When I would get somebody really amazing, like Ruth Bader 656 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 1: Ginsburg and Gloria Steinhum, she would send a little note. 657 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:50,200 Speaker 1: Or when I would get a good get, she would 658 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,560 Speaker 1: say it would it was only a line and she 659 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 1: but she was the head of this huge thing. But 660 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:58,400 Speaker 1: she was seeing. It's so important when you're working, when 661 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,399 Speaker 1: you're working at a place like that, to of someone 662 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,799 Speaker 1: say I see you. That's all they have to say, 663 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:04,920 Speaker 1: I see you, and I like what you're doing. And 664 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 1: I feel like they're there's under so much siege now 665 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 1: because reporting couldn't there couldn't be a more important time 666 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,439 Speaker 1: for it. Do you consider yourself political in the work 667 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:17,440 Speaker 1: you do and the writing you do, in the in 668 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,920 Speaker 1: the interviews you're doing well? Now? It is such a 669 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:22,800 Speaker 1: it's at such an interesting time because I was getting 670 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 1: I was getting good gets in the political world. I 671 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,000 Speaker 1: was I got the president, I got the president, I 672 00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,440 Speaker 1: got Nancy Pelosi, I got to do Table for three, 673 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,080 Speaker 1: Table for three. Did Obama do it with Obama? Did 674 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 1: it with Brian Cranston? What was that like? The three 675 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 1: of them? Well, the three, I mean it was it 676 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:46,320 Speaker 1: was the reason it happened. I think john was the 677 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 1: Johnson movie, and I think the Obama press people were 678 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,719 Speaker 1: starting to think about legacy and they were trying to 679 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,080 Speaker 1: create a parallel track and trying to get Obama on 680 00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,880 Speaker 1: this show. I Oh, he was fantastic. I mean, we 681 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,320 Speaker 1: talked about you'd love it because we talked about we 682 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 1: talked about fathers, and we talked about guys who were 683 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:10,280 Speaker 1: really raised without fathers, who most important role in life 684 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,600 Speaker 1: they felt was being a father. And it was really 685 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:17,839 Speaker 1: touching and I was really nervous. But but I mean, 686 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 1: so this column has really gotten some great political figures, 687 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,640 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren, Christian Jella Brand. I mean, we've gotten all 688 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,960 Speaker 1: the great ones. That was it ever difficult? Was there 689 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:34,400 Speaker 1: any friction with anybody? Umble was David Duke? The problem 690 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,719 Speaker 1: is I have not been able to crack Republicans. Okay, 691 00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:42,160 Speaker 1: you're a lawyer from Yale the time the funk? Would 692 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:43,680 Speaker 1: I want to have lunch with you? So? Did you 693 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:45,719 Speaker 1: do Trump? Have you interviewed Trump? No? I have not 694 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:49,319 Speaker 1: interviewed Trump. I was very close. Not I don't want 695 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:50,879 Speaker 1: to say very close, because I don't know how close 696 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,160 Speaker 1: I was. Really. I was really close to getting Ivanka Trump, 697 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,960 Speaker 1: which I thought would have been very interesting during the 698 00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:01,560 Speaker 1: campaign super woman. But the old has switched so much 699 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 1: that I mean, and I had never understood how much. 700 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,440 Speaker 1: I mean. I think for you it's very different, But 701 00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:12,760 Speaker 1: for me it wasn't an access game, and my access 702 00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:18,560 Speaker 1: to certain people pipelines has totally dried up. And I 703 00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:23,759 Speaker 1: really wouldn't love nothing. I would love to get Mitch McConnell. 704 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not. I mean, and if you read 705 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:27,880 Speaker 1: the table for three, you know it's now it's what 706 00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,120 Speaker 1: you're saying. You're never in the hot seat. I don't 707 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,120 Speaker 1: want to put him in a gotcha moment. I want 708 00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,200 Speaker 1: to think, tell us what you wanted to know, tell 709 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,719 Speaker 1: us how you're thinking about this, so that we can 710 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,080 Speaker 1: understand it better. And since I'm so interested in in 711 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,319 Speaker 1: in the subjects childhoods and what their relationships with their 712 00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,680 Speaker 1: parents were, as you are, I think you can do 713 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:47,960 Speaker 1: it in a in a way you can get with 714 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:53,480 Speaker 1: political people in a way that Trump's their politics. In 715 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:57,480 Speaker 1: a recent social Cues column, a reader complained about having 716 00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:01,040 Speaker 1: his table at a restaurant given to a list celebrity. 717 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,160 Speaker 1: In response, Philip Galamis did what he does best, put 718 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:09,320 Speaker 1: things in perspective through pros take solace in the words 719 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:13,400 Speaker 1: of Emily Dickinson. He wrote, how dreary to be somebody, 720 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:17,000 Speaker 1: how public, like a frog to tell one's name the 721 00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:23,000 Speaker 1: Livelong June to an admiring bog, This is Alec Baldwin 722 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,040 Speaker 1: and you're listening to here's the thing.