WEBVTT - MLB's Top Insider Jeff Passan Answers EVERYTHING: Ohtani, Lockout, Dodgers Ruining Baseball? 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.759 Welcome back all the smoke dugout coming to you live 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:05.720 from Philly. MLB All Star twenty twenty six. It's been 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:08.000 a fun day and man, we got one of the 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:12.240 most say, one of the biggest insiders in the game. 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:14.920 Welcome to the show, Jeff Passon. 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:17.960 Appreciation bagging man Crazy Pe. 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:19.880 Thank you for taking some time. I saw you. 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:22.280 You got a little bit of your WOJE off yesterday 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:25.720 before the draft. You threw some things out there before 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:28.160 it happened. But talk to me about how you got 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:32.800 into this space and what drew you to becoming one 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:35.160 of the biggest, you know, writers in this space. 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:40.080 Employment just must like No, that's the honest answer. 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:44.400 My father worked at the Cleveland plane dealer for forty 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:48.000 one years, so I grew up in a newspaper household, 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:50.640 and I knew what the business was like, and I 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:52.720 fell in love with it at a young age. I 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:55.880 was working at a local paper when I was fourteen 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:59.680 years old and went to school for journalism, and I 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:03.720 just like I wanted to tell stories. I think reporters 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:07.280 are in such a privilege place that we get to 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:10.920 talk to people who live the kinds of lives that 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:15.039 the rest of the world can't imagine, And to me, 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:18.440 our job is to tell the stories. 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:20.120 About what those lives are like. 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:23.120 And sometimes it's on the court, it's on the field, 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:28.240 sometimes it's the stuff off the interests and passions of people. 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:32.680 And to me, there's just such a wonderful thing about 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:36.160 a well told story. Yes, but I also understand that 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:40.320 storytelling doesn't have quite the audience that it did once 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:43.280 upon a time, or at least it's evolving in a 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:46.679 way where you know, people who are writing four and 0:01:46.800 --> 0:01:49.520 five thousand words stories don't have jobs anymore. 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:51.400 Yeah, and I got kids to feed, Matt. 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:52.400 Yeah, it's more. 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:55.200 It's the digital form has kind of taken I mean, 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:56.960 and to your point, I mean, we grew up reading 0:01:57.000 --> 0:01:59.560 newspapers or what we saw in ESPN was kind of 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:04.000 how we consumed our information. But now social media is 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:05.560 how people consume their information. 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:10.000 I know, and I have like a real cognitive dissonance 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:15.000 about that because to me, like sitting down and writing 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:19.200 a long story or reading a long story, like it 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:22.400 feels like art to me. And you know, you take 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:26.320 time over the years and you learn your craft and 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:30.280 you understand what you want to deliver to people, and 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:34.240 you know, for fifteen twenty years that's what I did 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:38.520 and that was my passion. But I'd be foolish not 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:41.720 to look at the landscape today and acknowledge that things 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:45.480 have changed and habits have changed, just in terms of 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:49.359 how things are consumed. And so, you know, I started 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:53.919 a new show this year and early on we're just 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:59.160 clipping off one minute clips throughout the show and they're 0:02:59.200 --> 0:02:59.920 doing better. 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:02.040 Yeah, way better. 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:05.320 Then the whole show is right, And I'm like, what 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:06.720 the fuck is this? 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:07.200 Like? 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:10.800 How did we get to a world where people just 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:14.560 want one minute at a time. I could either be 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:18.359 the old person who sits there and screams from his 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:21.200 porch about that, or I can understand that this is 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:22.639 what people want these days. 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:24.720 So what are some small things? I mean, outside of 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:25.959 your show. You can tell us about your show, but 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:27.960 what have you kind of done to evolve with the 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:30.400 times of how people are consuming their information? 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:33.519 On the baseball side. 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:36.360 You know, I think I've tried to marry the two 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:41.120 is best I can, because if I'm just going all 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:44.320 in on the clips, I feel like that's not who 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:46.720 I am, that I'm losing my idea, And I think. 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:50.520 There's still an appreciation for what your grassroots is being 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:51.960 able to write a good story. 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:55.680 Yeah, and it's been like, the show's been really fun 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:59.760 because never before have I gone on camera with people 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:03.680 and interviewed them in the long form the way that 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:07.120 we are right now. And it's a little bit daunting, 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:09.120 and it's a little bit intimidating because if I'm just 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:11.440 sitting there in a clubhouse right or in a locker 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:14.760 room talking to a guy, I can fumble over a question, 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:18.279 I can say some dumb shit and I don't. 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:20.120 Have to include that in there. Yeah, Yeah, it's all good. 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:23.960 Now, it's like there's pressure. You got to be really 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:26.480 really prepared. You have to know the person you're talking with. 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:29.240 You have to know what they want to talk about 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:32.159 and what's going to engage them. And it's been a 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:35.599 great challenge and it's like it's fun, I think too. 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:38.159 Once you kind of get the hang of this space, 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:41.400 I think you'll realize that it's actually more like sitting 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:43.800 next to someone in the clubhouse and just shooting the shit, 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:46.000 and if you do fumble, you do fuck up. It's 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:49.400 okay because that's the honesty of the conversation and how 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:50.560 it naturally flows and. 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:54.240 It took time for me to get to the place 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:55.920 where I don't know. 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:58.440 If I was comfortable doing that. 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:01.680 But one of the beauty of getting older is you 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:06.640 begin to understand who you are, and you understand that 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:10.480 that's not necessarily a fixed thing. Right Like when I 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:14.039 was younger, I knew I could write the shit out 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:16.880 of a story, and I didn't need a whole lot 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:20.320 from the person who I was talking with necessarily to 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:23.520 look and to observe and to see things and to 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:25.919 talk with other people. But now it's like, if I 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:28.800 want to get to the core of who someone is, 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:32.560 I have to ask the right questions and I have 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:34.719 to understand where they are in their life. 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:37.960 And it's a challenge and it's fun. 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:43.080 And in baseball, especially, which is such an incredibly multicultural game, 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:47.200 Like you can talk to somebody from the South who 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:49.799 grew up steeped in baseball. You can talk to someone 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:52.080 from California who's had baseball their whole life. You can 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:55.000 talk to someone from the Northeast who maybe didn't get 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:56.839 a chance to play a whole lot of the Midwest. 0:05:57.160 --> 0:05:59.160 And then, oh, by the way, there's a Dominican Republic. 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:03.839 There's Venezuela, Anama, Columbia, Cuba, Puerto Rico, and of course Japan. 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:08.400 And the way that baseball has spread throughout the world 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:11.040 and the embrace that Major League Baseball's had, I think 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:13.280 has made the game just so much better for it. 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:15.280 Well, I mean, speaking of that, I think that the 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:19.120 MLB is at a nice place right now, a really 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:23.480 nice place right now. But there's also a potential lockout looming. 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:26.239 It's not potential, is it coming, Is it's happening. 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:26.400 No. 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:30.159 But here's the thing, and I think this is important 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:32.840 for every audience. I try to say this, whether I'm 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:36.400 on Sports Center, I should wherever. December first is the 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:39.800 day that the Collective Bargaining Agreement expires. I do not 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:42.440 believe there's going to be a new deal in place 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:47.080 by then. That does not doom us for the twenty 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:52.760 twenty seven season. This is just big business being big business, 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.440 And when you are a businessman, all you're looking. 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:57.080 For is leverage. 0:06:57.440 --> 0:06:59.880 And these sides are trying the best to figure out 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:03.000 how do we get leverage on the other side, how 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:06.799 do we push ourselves closer to a deal. So in December, 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:10.160 same as last time, you're going to see you know 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:12.120 you're going to see arguing, you're going to see all 0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:15.400 these doomsday scenarios that are put out there, But the 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:18.680 real time when you should be getting concern. If there's 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:22.120 no movement by mid February, by early March, then the 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:24.920 season's in jeopardy. And that's when I'm going to be 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:28.720 concerned personally, because baseball, like you said, it's in a 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:32.440 great place, right, a really great place, and I don't 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:34.679 think anybody who's involved wants. 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:35.040 To ruin that. 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:38.080 You obviously are kind of behind the scenes as well 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:39.800 as in front of the scenes. But from what you 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:43.880 know here gathered people you've talked to, do you feel 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:46.720 like there will be some kind of whether it hits 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:48.640 before December or not, do you feel like some kind 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:51.000 of agreement will take place? 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:55.400 I'm hopeful, And I know that's not the right answer, 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:59.960 the one that anyone wants to hear. But here's the truth, Matt. 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:04.960 Right now, there's a system that's been in place since 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:08.560 the inception of the Major League Baseball Players Association and 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:12.800 the first collective bargaining agreement where it is a free market, 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:16.680 and in that free market, over time has changed and evolved, 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:20.800 but not since nineteen ninety four have owners tried to 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:24.800 implement the salary cap. And last time that happened, the 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:27.880 World Series was lost. It was a disaster. You needed 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:31.880 a judge to issue an injunction to get baseball. 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:32.280 Back on the field. 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:34.559 The only thing that brought people back to the game 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:37.960 was Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa in nineteen ninety eight. 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:40.720 Like that was a black Swan event and a wonderful 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:45.400 thing that happened, but ultimately you can't bank on that. 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:50.520 And so the idea that MLB in the middle this 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:54.040 is the fight that MLB is trying to pick right now, 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:57.120 in the middle of a season in which the Tampa 0:08:57.120 --> 0:09:03.000 Bay Rays, the Milwaukee Brewers, the Cleveland Guardians are first 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:06.440 place teams and playoff teams, where a Chicago White Sox 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:08.800 team that lost one hundred and twenty one games two. 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:10.760 Years ago is a playoff team. 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:12.400 And I can go on and on, whether it's the 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:15.240 Miami Marlins or other small market teams or other low 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:18.960 pay roll teams. They're trying to make the argument that 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:23.480 there is not competitive balance, or not sufficient competitive balance 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:26.160 in Major League Baseball, and that the remedy to that 0:09:26.840 --> 0:09:30.280 is to restrict salaries of players, which is essentially what 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:31.640 a salary cap does. 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:31.960 Now. 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:36.040 I get MLB's argument about small market teams not winning 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:39.280 the World Series or advancing deep into the playoffs, like 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:43.720 those are facts. You can't deny those. But the question 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:48.480 that players ask is, Okay, why is that? Is it 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:52.560 because we don't have a ceiling on what teams can spend? 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:55.920 Or is it because we don't have a floor where 0:09:55.960 --> 0:10:00.920 those smaller market teams that just don't spend anywhere near 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:05.040 what they could or what others say they should, that 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:07.760 they have no floor to reach. And so that's the 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:12.400 issue here is they're talking about completely different things. The 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:16.600 MLBPA is not going to accept a salary cap. It's 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:20.160 just not an MLB right now the way it's going 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:22.520 to saying we want a salary cap and we will 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:23.840 not accept anything otherwise. 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:25.640 And that's the conflict that's going on. 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:29.000 Interesting. I hope, I hope they kind of come to 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:33.400 a resolution. And the NBA currently the Jason Tatum Jayden 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.400 Brown situation where you know, the trade kind of shocked people. 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:40.760 There's rumors swirling that maybe they didn't get along. Is 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:44.080 there anything what's the equivalcy of that in MLB where 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:46.760 guys are getting traded in their prime and you may 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:49.640 hear some stuff behind the scenes where it happened because 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:51.520 of this, is it? I mean, I'm sure it takes 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:53.160 place similar on the baseball side. 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:58.120 Yeah, I mean, listen, you stick twenty six testosterone laden 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:04.520 men in paid, paid ego maniacal like, you know, culture's 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:07.840 mixing sometimes, you know, sometimes it's not mix them very well. 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:12.600 And at the same time, like the New York Mets, 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:15.600 you know want So Too and Francisco Lindoor, there have 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:19.040 been questions about how they get along and about how 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:21.880 are they going to get along going forward, and both 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:25.000 of them came out publicly and said, you know, if 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:28.080 the we're not going to acknowledge that there was a beef, 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:30.720 but if there was, it got squashed and we're good 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:33.480 with each other right now. And yet at the same time, 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:36.280 the Mets are in the middle of a complete disaster 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:41.200 piece of a season. And so to see that, I 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:47.000 think it's illustrative of when you have two guys who 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:52.040 are that good, can they coexist? That needs to be, 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:55.680 to me, the absolute priority when you're building a team, 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:59.040 and it's it's always difficult to know before two guys 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:02.520 have spent time together, whether the like, was there a 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:06.640 teammate that you ever thought came into your locker room, 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:08.600 You're like, I'm a like this guy, and after where 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:10.439 you're like, actually, I would like to punch him in 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:10.839 the face. 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:13.440 I mean, I think it was the other way around. 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:14.959 I thought I'd want to punch him in the face, 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:16.520 and then he became my teammates. 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:18.360 But I think this happens. 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:20.360 And again, you've been covering the sport for a long 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:23.240 time and I played on the basketball side. There's always 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:25.000 stars that don't necessarily get along. 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:28.160 Yeah, I mean, Justin Verlander and Max Scherzer, we were 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:31.360 never the best of friends by any means, and yet 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:34.520 they played together in Detroit. They played together with the 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:37.679 New York Mets, and they figured out a way to coexist. 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:40.920 It wasn't you know, It wasn't one of those situations 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:45.400 where they're gonna, you know, be sitting down strategizing together 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:46.480 or learning from each other. 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:50.080 They figured out a way to do their work and. 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:51.560 Be expect each other exactly. 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:54.680 And that's that's all you can ever ask, Right, I 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:57.800 don't have to be your best friend, but I would 0:12:57.880 --> 0:12:59.480 like to be a productive teammate. 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:03.320 With you, what's the craziest trade you've personally ever covered, 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:04.559 one that shocked you. 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:08.120 I mean it's almost one that it's one that didn't happen. 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:09.640 Okay, can we hear about it? 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:13.120 The year that sho Heo Tani was going to be 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:17.440 a free agent, the Los Angeles Angels had about a 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:23.560 twenty four hour window where Artie Moreno, their owner, was 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:29.160 open to trading Sho Hao Tony, and at that point 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:31.120 he was going to be a free agent. I think 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:33.760 everybody knew he wasn't going to re sign with the Angels. 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:37.199 They'd been terrible his whole time there, wasted the prime 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:39.920 of Sho Hao Tani, wasted the prime of Mike Trout 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:43.400 like he had never even played the playoffs before he 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:49.400 went to the Dodgers and the Tampa Bay Rays. Really, 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:54.240 Tampa Bay Rays were willing to make a trade that 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:58.760 would have included Junior Camonaro and Carson Williams, both of 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:03.360 whom were their top prosper at the time, and you know, 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:07.480 the Angels front office like they were trying to rush 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:09.080 to get this done. 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:11.240 And it turns out this would. 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:14.920 Have been the worst trade imaginable for the Raids because 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:18.480 you know what happened right after that, Wander Franco and 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:24.960 the situation there where he wound up getting charged with Yeah, 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:27.520 a little bit of trouble. So Wander Franco, who was 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.520 their franchise shortstopped with they'd signed to a one hundred 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.600 and eighty nine million dollar contract. Suddenly he's out of 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:36.880 the picture. There were other injuries that happened in Junior 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:38.640 Kamenaro's you know, one of. 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:41.800 The best players in baseball now. So it was the 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:42.560 best trade. 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:43.480 It didn't happen. 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:44.200 It didn't happen. 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:47.800 Interesting something I thought that was interesting. You gave up 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:50.200 your Hall of Fame vote in twenty seventeen out of 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:55.120 protest thoughts that Bonds and Clemens should be in. Other 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:57.400 writers didn't walk us through that decision. 0:14:57.520 --> 0:14:58.280 It had been. 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:01.600 Brewing for a long time because I'll tell you, I 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:06.480 was like early in my days of baseball writing, I 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:09.360 was kind of on the very Bonds beat. I started 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:13.760 in two thousand and four, and yeah, so started in 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:15.960 two thousand and four and two thousand and five. You know, 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:20.560 saw him hit seven fifty six, seven sixty two, like 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:26.480 Barry Bonds was absolutely incredible and still to this day 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:30.840 is the best baseball player not named Shoho Tani that 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:35.359 I've personally seen. And to me, the Hall of Fame's 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:41.000 job is to tell the story of baseball, not just 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:41.920 Major League baseball. 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:44.600 It's tell the story of the Negro leagues. 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:48.280 It's to tell the story of pre MLB baseball, you know, 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:52.080 back to you know, the eighteen sixties when when the 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:53.240 whole rackets started. 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:54.720 It's to tell the story. 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:58.480 Of Japanese baseball, just baseball around the world. It should, 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:02.160 it should be a magnet for fans of baseball. And 0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:06.120 I just feel like not honoring the people who were 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:09.840 the best at the game is a really disingenuous way 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:10.720 to tell the story. 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:14.360 I will tell the story of Barry Bonds as this. 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:21.480 He was an incredibly talented, other worldly baseball player who 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.320 was a flawed human being and made a choice that 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:28.080 disrespected the game. And we can argue all we want 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:32.960 about what performance enhancing drugs are. There's a really blurry 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:37.360 line there where what we use to heal up right 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:41.480 to get through injuries, versus what we use to enhance performance. 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:42.720 Where is that line? 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:43.600 Who makes the line? 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:46.200 I think the public does, But I think the public's 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:52.840 also been convinced you know through years of unnecessary, unnecessary moralizing, 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:55.080 that that line is fixed. 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:57.320 It's not. It's constantly evolving. 0:16:57.360 --> 0:17:02.120 To me, as medicine evolves, society evolves. But this is 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:05.720 as much like a mental line as anything. Because pds 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:09.080 are cheating, are you willing to cheat or are you not? 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:12.639 And Barry Bonds, you know, even if there was not 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:16.120 a drug program in place, every baseball player knew if 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:20.520 you take steroids, if you're jose Canseco, if you're Mark McGuire, like, 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.879 you're doing a disservice to the game. And to me, 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:26.919 those two stories are not mutually exclusive. 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.800 The Hall of Fame can tell that story. 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:32.360 It can tell the story of Barry Bond's the great 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:35.359 baseball player, but also Barry Bond's the flawed human. 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:38.640 And the point. 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:41.320 For me that pushed me over the edge was when 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:44.200 the Hall of Fame, before a vote one year, sent 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:46.960 out I think it was like a twelve hundred word 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:51.879 email from Joe Morgan, who you know, legendary baseball player, 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:55.400 incredible and was on the board at the Hall of Fame, 0:17:55.960 --> 0:18:00.439 and he was essentially saying to all the voters, this 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:03.880 place is sacred. Do not let in people who are 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:08.320 going to going to ugly it up. And I'm sitting 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:11.480 there like, there's some real pieces of shit in the 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:11.920 Hall of. 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:16.479 Fame, like terrible, terrible people, And you're telling me that 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:21.120 Barry bonds because he chose to pursue, you know, an 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:23.720 area of the game that was beyond things that that 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.800 makes him, That makes him the worse than Ty Cobb, 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:29.639 that makes him worse than people who are racist. 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:31.720 And by the way, there are already steroid users in 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:35.280 the Hall of Fame, like, like, come on, so right there. 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:38.600 It just felt to me like it was a process 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:40.840 that I just didn't want to be involved with anymore. 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:43.439 And I have a lot of respect for people at 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:45.320 the Hall of Fame. Josh Rowich is a friend, he's 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:48.600 the president. I think he's excellent. John Schostakovsky goes to, 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:50.800 you know, every big event in baseball and. 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:53.360 Bring stuff back to the Hall of Fame. I take 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:56.280 my children to the Hall of Fame, like I. 0:18:56.280 --> 0:19:00.639 Believe in the mission. I just didn't want to be 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:03.800 part of something that I didn't agree with. 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:05.440 Wow, that's huge. 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:11.440 Give me your best or worst memory of covering these players, 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:15.080 y Puig, What. 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:15.800 A dick. 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:19.080 He was? 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:21.520 You know what those he was dead. I was. I've 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:22.600 been in l A for a lot. I heard the 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:23.000 same thing. 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:28.760 Yeah, he was electric, though, like the puig Era, it's 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:31.960 a weird one because it came right before the Dodgers. 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:32.359 Got really good. 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:35.840 Yeah, and I don't I don't know that the Dodgers 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:38.560 ever gonna ever were going to win with Pleague around, 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:42.560 just because I think that. Yeah, I think there's some 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:47.800 people in clubhouses who just poison the well. And I've 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:50.200 heard that that from a couple of Dodgers players too. 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:52.119 Josh Hamilton, Oh my god. 0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:55.879 I remember being there at Yankee Stadium the night of 0:19:55.920 --> 0:20:00.360 the home run derby, and so when I sa down 0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:05.200 to write, I usually like know what I'm going to say. 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:08.160 I usually can figure it out. I remember that night 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:11.280 I left Yankee Stadium. I took the I don't know why. 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:13.520 I always take the train back into the city like 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:15.760 two am. Just gives me some time to think and 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:19.119 clear my head. And I get to the hotel and 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:20.960 I sat there in front of a blank screen for 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:27.280 an hour really yeah, because I was having trouble putting 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:29.359 words to what I saw that night. It was one 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:34.320 of the most incredible performances I've ever seen, and he 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:38.159 was just so talented. And Josh Hamilton's story in a 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:41.359 lot of ways is tragic. You know, just did not 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:46.199 have the upbringing that gave him what you needed to 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:49.320 succeed in professional sports. He's the kind of guy who 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:52.439 I think college actually would have been absolutely incredible for 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:55.399 because it would have given him a chance inside of 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:59.840 a program and with teammates who were trying to win 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:02.600 as opposed to get to the next level or the 0:21:02.600 --> 0:21:03.240 next wrong. 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:05.440 I don't know him personally, but I was a huge 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:08.080 fan of just obviously his game, but hearing about his story, 0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:08.600 do you know him? 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:10.280 Did you get a chance to know him at all? Yes? 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:13.960