Speaker 1: Welcome back all the smoke dugout coming to you live
Speaker 1: from Philly. MLB All Star twenty twenty six. It's been
Speaker 1: a fun day and man, we got one of the
Speaker 1: most say, one of the biggest insiders in the game.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show, Jeff Passon.
Speaker 2: Appreciation bagging man Crazy Pe.
Speaker 3: Thank you for taking some time. I saw you.
Speaker 1: You got a little bit of your WOJE off yesterday
Speaker 1: before the draft. You threw some things out there before
Speaker 1: it happened. But talk to me about how you got
Speaker 1: into this space and what drew you to becoming one
Speaker 1: of the biggest, you know, writers in this space.
Speaker 2: Employment just must like No, that's the honest answer.
Speaker 4: My father worked at the Cleveland plane dealer for forty
Speaker 4: one years, so I grew up in a newspaper household,
Speaker 4: and I knew what the business was like, and I
Speaker 4: fell in love with it at a young age. I
Speaker 4: was working at a local paper when I was fourteen
Speaker 4: years old and went to school for journalism, and I
Speaker 4: just like I wanted to tell stories. I think reporters
Speaker 4: are in such a privilege place that we get to
Speaker 4: talk to people who live the kinds of lives that
Speaker 4: the rest of the world can't imagine, And to me,
Speaker 4: our job is to tell the stories.
Speaker 2: About what those lives are like.
Speaker 4: And sometimes it's on the court, it's on the field,
Speaker 4: sometimes it's the stuff off the interests and passions of people.
Speaker 4: And to me, there's just such a wonderful thing about
Speaker 4: a well told story. Yes, but I also understand that
Speaker 4: storytelling doesn't have quite the audience that it did once
Speaker 4: upon a time, or at least it's evolving in a
Speaker 4: way where you know, people who are writing four and
Speaker 4: five thousand words stories don't have jobs anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I got kids to feed, Matt.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's more.
Speaker 1: It's the digital form has kind of taken I mean,
Speaker 1: and to your point, I mean, we grew up reading
Speaker 1: newspapers or what we saw in ESPN was kind of
Speaker 1: how we consumed our information. But now social media is
Speaker 1: how people consume their information.
Speaker 4: I know, and I have like a real cognitive dissonance
Speaker 4: about that because to me, like sitting down and writing
Speaker 4: a long story or reading a long story, like it
Speaker 4: feels like art to me. And you know, you take
Speaker 4: time over the years and you learn your craft and
Speaker 4: you understand what you want to deliver to people, and
Speaker 4: you know, for fifteen twenty years that's what I did
Speaker 4: and that was my passion. But I'd be foolish not
Speaker 4: to look at the landscape today and acknowledge that things
Speaker 4: have changed and habits have changed, just in terms of
Speaker 4: how things are consumed. And so, you know, I started
Speaker 4: a new show this year and early on we're just
Speaker 4: clipping off one minute clips throughout the show and they're
Speaker 4: doing better.
Speaker 2: Yeah, way better.
Speaker 4: Then the whole show is right, And I'm like, what
Speaker 4: the fuck is this?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 4: How did we get to a world where people just
Speaker 4: want one minute at a time. I could either be
Speaker 4: the old person who sits there and screams from his
Speaker 4: porch about that, or I can understand that this is
Speaker 4: what people want these days.
Speaker 1: So what are some small things? I mean, outside of
Speaker 1: your show. You can tell us about your show, but
Speaker 1: what have you kind of done to evolve with the
Speaker 1: times of how people are consuming their information?
Speaker 3: On the baseball side.
Speaker 4: You know, I think I've tried to marry the two
Speaker 4: is best I can, because if I'm just going all
Speaker 4: in on the clips, I feel like that's not who
Speaker 4: I am, that I'm losing my idea, And I think.
Speaker 1: There's still an appreciation for what your grassroots is being
Speaker 1: able to write a good story.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's been like, the show's been really fun
Speaker 4: because never before have I gone on camera with people
Speaker 4: and interviewed them in the long form the way that
Speaker 4: we are right now. And it's a little bit daunting,
Speaker 4: and it's a little bit intimidating because if I'm just
Speaker 4: sitting there in a clubhouse right or in a locker
Speaker 4: room talking to a guy, I can fumble over a question,
Speaker 4: I can say some dumb shit and I don't.
Speaker 2: Have to include that in there. Yeah, Yeah, it's all good.
Speaker 4: Now, it's like there's pressure. You got to be really
Speaker 4: really prepared. You have to know the person you're talking with.
Speaker 4: You have to know what they want to talk about
Speaker 4: and what's going to engage them. And it's been a
Speaker 4: great challenge and it's like it's fun, I think too.
Speaker 1: Once you kind of get the hang of this space,
Speaker 1: I think you'll realize that it's actually more like sitting
Speaker 1: next to someone in the clubhouse and just shooting the shit,
Speaker 1: and if you do fumble, you do fuck up. It's
Speaker 1: okay because that's the honesty of the conversation and how
Speaker 1: it naturally flows and.
Speaker 4: It took time for me to get to the place
Speaker 4: where I don't know.
Speaker 2: If I was comfortable doing that.
Speaker 4: But one of the beauty of getting older is you
Speaker 4: begin to understand who you are, and you understand that
Speaker 4: that's not necessarily a fixed thing. Right Like when I
Speaker 4: was younger, I knew I could write the shit out
Speaker 4: of a story, and I didn't need a whole lot
Speaker 4: from the person who I was talking with necessarily to
Speaker 4: look and to observe and to see things and to
Speaker 4: talk with other people. But now it's like, if I
Speaker 4: want to get to the core of who someone is,
Speaker 4: I have to ask the right questions and I have
Speaker 4: to understand where they are in their life.
Speaker 2: And it's a challenge and it's fun.
Speaker 4: And in baseball, especially, which is such an incredibly multicultural game,
Speaker 4: Like you can talk to somebody from the South who
Speaker 4: grew up steeped in baseball. You can talk to someone
Speaker 4: from California who's had baseball their whole life. You can
Speaker 4: talk to someone from the Northeast who maybe didn't get
Speaker 4: a chance to play a whole lot of the Midwest.
Speaker 4: And then, oh, by the way, there's a Dominican Republic.
Speaker 4: There's Venezuela, Anama, Columbia, Cuba, Puerto Rico, and of course Japan.
Speaker 4: And the way that baseball has spread throughout the world
Speaker 4: and the embrace that Major League Baseball's had, I think
Speaker 4: has made the game just so much better for it.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, speaking of that, I think that the
Speaker 1: MLB is at a nice place right now, a really
Speaker 1: nice place right now. But there's also a potential lockout looming.
Speaker 1: It's not potential, is it coming, Is it's happening.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 4: But here's the thing, and I think this is important
Speaker 4: for every audience. I try to say this, whether I'm
Speaker 4: on Sports Center, I should wherever. December first is the
Speaker 4: day that the Collective Bargaining Agreement expires. I do not
Speaker 4: believe there's going to be a new deal in place
Speaker 4: by then. That does not doom us for the twenty
Speaker 4: twenty seven season. This is just big business being big business,
Speaker 4: And when you are a businessman, all you're looking.
Speaker 2: For is leverage.
Speaker 4: And these sides are trying the best to figure out
Speaker 4: how do we get leverage on the other side, how
Speaker 4: do we push ourselves closer to a deal. So in December,
Speaker 4: same as last time, you're going to see you know
Speaker 4: you're going to see arguing, you're going to see all
Speaker 4: these doomsday scenarios that are put out there, But the
Speaker 4: real time when you should be getting concern. If there's
Speaker 4: no movement by mid February, by early March, then the
Speaker 4: season's in jeopardy. And that's when I'm going to be
Speaker 4: concerned personally, because baseball, like you said, it's in a
Speaker 4: great place, right, a really great place, and I don't
Speaker 4: think anybody who's involved wants.
Speaker 3: To ruin that.
Speaker 1: You obviously are kind of behind the scenes as well
Speaker 1: as in front of the scenes. But from what you
Speaker 1: know here gathered people you've talked to, do you feel
Speaker 1: like there will be some kind of whether it hits
Speaker 1: before December or not, do you feel like some kind
Speaker 1: of agreement will take place?
Speaker 4: I'm hopeful, And I know that's not the right answer,
Speaker 4: the one that anyone wants to hear. But here's the truth, Matt.
Speaker 4: Right now, there's a system that's been in place since
Speaker 4: the inception of the Major League Baseball Players Association and
Speaker 4: the first collective bargaining agreement where it is a free market,
Speaker 4: and in that free market, over time has changed and evolved,
Speaker 4: but not since nineteen ninety four have owners tried to
Speaker 4: implement the salary cap. And last time that happened, the
Speaker 4: World Series was lost. It was a disaster. You needed
Speaker 4: a judge to issue an injunction to get baseball.
Speaker 2: Back on the field.
Speaker 4: The only thing that brought people back to the game
Speaker 4: was Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa in nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 4: Like that was a black Swan event and a wonderful
Speaker 4: thing that happened, but ultimately you can't bank on that.
Speaker 4: And so the idea that MLB in the middle this
Speaker 4: is the fight that MLB is trying to pick right now,
Speaker 4: in the middle of a season in which the Tampa
Speaker 4: Bay Rays, the Milwaukee Brewers, the Cleveland Guardians are first
Speaker 4: place teams and playoff teams, where a Chicago White Sox
Speaker 4: team that lost one hundred and twenty one games two.
Speaker 2: Years ago is a playoff team.
Speaker 4: And I can go on and on, whether it's the
Speaker 4: Miami Marlins or other small market teams or other low
Speaker 4: pay roll teams. They're trying to make the argument that
Speaker 4: there is not competitive balance, or not sufficient competitive balance
Speaker 4: in Major League Baseball, and that the remedy to that
Speaker 4: is to restrict salaries of players, which is essentially what
Speaker 4: a salary cap does.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 4: I get MLB's argument about small market teams not winning
Speaker 4: the World Series or advancing deep into the playoffs, like
Speaker 4: those are facts. You can't deny those. But the question
Speaker 4: that players ask is, Okay, why is that? Is it
Speaker 4: because we don't have a ceiling on what teams can spend?
Speaker 4: Or is it because we don't have a floor where
Speaker 4: those smaller market teams that just don't spend anywhere near
Speaker 4: what they could or what others say they should, that
Speaker 4: they have no floor to reach. And so that's the
Speaker 4: issue here is they're talking about completely different things. The
Speaker 4: MLBPA is not going to accept a salary cap. It's
Speaker 4: just not an MLB right now the way it's going
Speaker 4: to saying we want a salary cap and we will
Speaker 4: not accept anything otherwise.
Speaker 2: And that's the conflict that's going on.
Speaker 1: Interesting. I hope, I hope they kind of come to
Speaker 1: a resolution. And the NBA currently the Jason Tatum Jayden
Speaker 1: Brown situation where you know, the trade kind of shocked people.
Speaker 1: There's rumors swirling that maybe they didn't get along. Is
Speaker 1: there anything what's the equivalcy of that in MLB where
Speaker 1: guys are getting traded in their prime and you may
Speaker 1: hear some stuff behind the scenes where it happened because
Speaker 1: of this, is it? I mean, I'm sure it takes
Speaker 1: place similar on the baseball side.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, listen, you stick twenty six testosterone laden
Speaker 4: men in paid, paid ego maniacal like, you know, culture's
Speaker 4: mixing sometimes, you know, sometimes it's not mix them very well.
Speaker 4: And at the same time, like the New York Mets,
Speaker 4: you know want So Too and Francisco Lindoor, there have
Speaker 4: been questions about how they get along and about how
Speaker 4: are they going to get along going forward, and both
Speaker 4: of them came out publicly and said, you know, if
Speaker 4: the we're not going to acknowledge that there was a beef,
Speaker 4: but if there was, it got squashed and we're good
Speaker 4: with each other right now. And yet at the same time,
Speaker 4: the Mets are in the middle of a complete disaster
Speaker 4: piece of a season. And so to see that, I
Speaker 4: think it's illustrative of when you have two guys who
Speaker 4: are that good, can they coexist? That needs to be,
Speaker 4: to me, the absolute priority when you're building a team,
Speaker 4: and it's it's always difficult to know before two guys
Speaker 4: have spent time together, whether the like, was there a
Speaker 4: teammate that you ever thought came into your locker room,
Speaker 4: You're like, I'm a like this guy, and after where
Speaker 4: you're like, actually, I would like to punch him in
Speaker 4: the face.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think it was the other way around.
Speaker 1: I thought I'd want to punch him in the face,
Speaker 1: and then he became my teammates.
Speaker 3: But I think this happens.
Speaker 1: And again, you've been covering the sport for a long
Speaker 1: time and I played on the basketball side. There's always
Speaker 1: stars that don't necessarily get along.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, Justin Verlander and Max Scherzer, we were
Speaker 4: never the best of friends by any means, and yet
Speaker 4: they played together in Detroit. They played together with the
Speaker 4: New York Mets, and they figured out a way to coexist.
Speaker 4: It wasn't you know, It wasn't one of those situations
Speaker 4: where they're gonna, you know, be sitting down strategizing together
Speaker 4: or learning from each other.
Speaker 2: They figured out a way to do their work and.
Speaker 3: Be expect each other exactly.
Speaker 4: And that's that's all you can ever ask, Right, I
Speaker 4: don't have to be your best friend, but I would
Speaker 4: like to be a productive teammate.
Speaker 1: With you, what's the craziest trade you've personally ever covered,
Speaker 1: one that shocked you.
Speaker 2: I mean it's almost one that it's one that didn't happen.
Speaker 3: Okay, can we hear about it?
Speaker 4: The year that sho Heo Tani was going to be
Speaker 4: a free agent, the Los Angeles Angels had about a
Speaker 4: twenty four hour window where Artie Moreno, their owner, was
Speaker 4: open to trading Sho Hao Tony, and at that point
Speaker 4: he was going to be a free agent. I think
Speaker 4: everybody knew he wasn't going to re sign with the Angels.
Speaker 4: They'd been terrible his whole time there, wasted the prime
Speaker 4: of Sho Hao Tani, wasted the prime of Mike Trout
Speaker 4: like he had never even played the playoffs before he
Speaker 4: went to the Dodgers and the Tampa Bay Rays. Really,
Speaker 4: Tampa Bay Rays were willing to make a trade that
Speaker 4: would have included Junior Camonaro and Carson Williams, both of
Speaker 4: whom were their top prosper at the time, and you know,
Speaker 4: the Angels front office like they were trying to rush
Speaker 4: to get this done.
Speaker 2: And it turns out this would.
Speaker 4: Have been the worst trade imaginable for the Raids because
Speaker 4: you know what happened right after that, Wander Franco and
Speaker 4: the situation there where he wound up getting charged with Yeah,
Speaker 4: a little bit of trouble. So Wander Franco, who was
Speaker 4: their franchise shortstopped with they'd signed to a one hundred
Speaker 4: and eighty nine million dollar contract. Suddenly he's out of
Speaker 4: the picture. There were other injuries that happened in Junior
Speaker 4: Kamenaro's you know, one of.
Speaker 2: The best players in baseball now. So it was the
Speaker 2: best trade.
Speaker 3: It didn't happen.
Speaker 2: It didn't happen.
Speaker 1: Interesting something I thought that was interesting. You gave up
Speaker 1: your Hall of Fame vote in twenty seventeen out of
Speaker 1: protest thoughts that Bonds and Clemens should be in. Other
Speaker 1: writers didn't walk us through that decision.
Speaker 2: It had been.
Speaker 4: Brewing for a long time because I'll tell you, I
Speaker 4: was like early in my days of baseball writing, I
Speaker 4: was kind of on the very Bonds beat. I started
Speaker 4: in two thousand and four, and yeah, so started in
Speaker 4: two thousand and four and two thousand and five. You know,
Speaker 4: saw him hit seven fifty six, seven sixty two, like
Speaker 4: Barry Bonds was absolutely incredible and still to this day
Speaker 4: is the best baseball player not named Shoho Tani that
Speaker 4: I've personally seen. And to me, the Hall of Fame's
Speaker 4: job is to tell the story of baseball, not just
Speaker 4: Major League baseball.
Speaker 2: It's tell the story of the Negro leagues.
Speaker 4: It's to tell the story of pre MLB baseball, you know,
Speaker 4: back to you know, the eighteen sixties when when the
Speaker 4: whole rackets started.
Speaker 2: It's to tell the story.
Speaker 4: Of Japanese baseball, just baseball around the world. It should,
Speaker 4: it should be a magnet for fans of baseball. And
Speaker 4: I just feel like not honoring the people who were
Speaker 4: the best at the game is a really disingenuous way
Speaker 4: to tell the story.
Speaker 2: I will tell the story of Barry Bonds as this.
Speaker 4: He was an incredibly talented, other worldly baseball player who
Speaker 4: was a flawed human being and made a choice that
Speaker 4: disrespected the game. And we can argue all we want
Speaker 4: about what performance enhancing drugs are. There's a really blurry
Speaker 4: line there where what we use to heal up right
Speaker 4: to get through injuries, versus what we use to enhance performance.
Speaker 2: Where is that line?
Speaker 3: Who makes the line?
Speaker 4: I think the public does, But I think the public's
Speaker 4: also been convinced you know through years of unnecessary, unnecessary moralizing,
Speaker 4: that that line is fixed.
Speaker 2: It's not. It's constantly evolving.
Speaker 4: To me, as medicine evolves, society evolves. But this is
Speaker 4: as much like a mental line as anything. Because pds
Speaker 4: are cheating, are you willing to cheat or are you not?
Speaker 4: And Barry Bonds, you know, even if there was not
Speaker 4: a drug program in place, every baseball player knew if
Speaker 4: you take steroids, if you're jose Canseco, if you're Mark McGuire, like,
Speaker 4: you're doing a disservice to the game. And to me,
Speaker 4: those two stories are not mutually exclusive.
Speaker 2: The Hall of Fame can tell that story.
Speaker 4: It can tell the story of Barry Bond's the great
Speaker 4: baseball player, but also Barry Bond's the flawed human.
Speaker 2: And the point.
Speaker 4: For me that pushed me over the edge was when
Speaker 4: the Hall of Fame, before a vote one year, sent
Speaker 4: out I think it was like a twelve hundred word
Speaker 4: email from Joe Morgan, who you know, legendary baseball player,
Speaker 4: incredible and was on the board at the Hall of Fame,
Speaker 4: and he was essentially saying to all the voters, this
Speaker 4: place is sacred. Do not let in people who are
Speaker 4: going to going to ugly it up. And I'm sitting
Speaker 4: there like, there's some real pieces of shit in the
Speaker 4: Hall of.
Speaker 5: Fame, like terrible, terrible people, And you're telling me that
Speaker 5: Barry bonds because he chose to pursue, you know, an
Speaker 5: area of the game that was beyond things that that
Speaker 5: makes him, That makes him the worse than Ty Cobb,
Speaker 5: that makes him worse than people who are racist.
Speaker 2: And by the way, there are already steroid users in
Speaker 2: the Hall of Fame, like, like, come on, so right there.
Speaker 4: It just felt to me like it was a process
Speaker 4: that I just didn't want to be involved with anymore.
Speaker 4: And I have a lot of respect for people at
Speaker 4: the Hall of Fame. Josh Rowich is a friend, he's
Speaker 4: the president. I think he's excellent. John Schostakovsky goes to,
Speaker 4: you know, every big event in baseball and.
Speaker 2: Bring stuff back to the Hall of Fame. I take
Speaker 2: my children to the Hall of Fame, like I.
Speaker 4: Believe in the mission. I just didn't want to be
Speaker 4: part of something that I didn't agree with.
Speaker 3: Wow, that's huge.
Speaker 1: Give me your best or worst memory of covering these players,
Speaker 1: y Puig, What.
Speaker 3: A dick.
Speaker 2: He was?
Speaker 3: You know what those he was dead. I was. I've
Speaker 3: been in l A for a lot. I heard the
Speaker 3: same thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he was electric, though, like the puig Era, it's
Speaker 4: a weird one because it came right before the Dodgers.
Speaker 3: Got really good.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I don't I don't know that the Dodgers
Speaker 4: ever gonna ever were going to win with Pleague around,
Speaker 4: just because I think that. Yeah, I think there's some
Speaker 4: people in clubhouses who just poison the well. And I've
Speaker 4: heard that that from a couple of Dodgers players too.
Speaker 3: Josh Hamilton, Oh my god.
Speaker 4: I remember being there at Yankee Stadium the night of
Speaker 4: the home run derby, and so when I sa down
Speaker 4: to write, I usually like know what I'm going to say.
Speaker 4: I usually can figure it out. I remember that night
Speaker 4: I left Yankee Stadium. I took the I don't know why.
Speaker 4: I always take the train back into the city like
Speaker 4: two am. Just gives me some time to think and
Speaker 4: clear my head. And I get to the hotel and
Speaker 4: I sat there in front of a blank screen for
Speaker 4: an hour really yeah, because I was having trouble putting
Speaker 4: words to what I saw that night. It was one
Speaker 4: of the most incredible performances I've ever seen, and he
Speaker 4: was just so talented. And Josh Hamilton's story in a
Speaker 4: lot of ways is tragic. You know, just did not
Speaker 4: have the upbringing that gave him what you needed to
Speaker 4: succeed in professional sports. He's the kind of guy who
Speaker 4: I think college actually would have been absolutely incredible for
Speaker 4: because it would have given him a chance inside of
Speaker 4: a program and with teammates who were trying to win
Speaker 4: as opposed to get to the next level or the
Speaker 4: next wrong.
Speaker 1: I don't know him personally, but I was a huge
Speaker 1: fan of just obviously his game, but hearing about his story,
Speaker 1: do you know him?
Speaker 3: Did you get a chance to know him at all? Yes?
Speaker 2: Cool, good dude, Good dude, Yes, I think so. And
Speaker 2: he's just been through a lot.
Speaker 4: And look, people got demons and those things are roaring
Speaker 4: all the time. And I can't imagine being in Josh
Speaker 4: Hamilton's head having to, you know, every day, know what
Speaker 4: your brain is telling you and convince yourself it's the
Speaker 4: wrong thing.
Speaker 1: See a little offsud, but kind of similar. I mean,
Speaker 1: I played with lamar Odom, one of the foulest person
Speaker 1: most giving, kindest, loving, incredible talent you'll ever meet.
Speaker 3: But he battled those demons, and it.
Speaker 4: Makes you feel lucky right that whatever it was in
Speaker 4: your background, whether it was parents, whether it was friends,
Speaker 4: whether it was a mentor people who can keep you
Speaker 4: going in the right direction, and you haven't liked the
Speaker 4: capacity to process.
Speaker 2: I saw these white like You've lived.
Speaker 4: A life that most of us can't imagine, that that
Speaker 4: would derail so many people out there, but you lived it.
Speaker 4: You are where you are as much here because of
Speaker 4: what's down.
Speaker 3: There, because of that Tim Linscomb, I.
Speaker 2: Uh, I'll tell you what I love.
Speaker 4: Tim Linsgam's dad, Chris linsm And I heard about Tim
Speaker 4: linccam well before he became a star in the big leagues, because, uh,
Speaker 4: you know, I've been I've been kind of a pitching
Speaker 4: nerd for a long time. And I heard from a
Speaker 4: scout about this kid at the University of Washington who
Speaker 4: moves like nobody you've ever seen before. And the first
Speaker 4: time I saw Tim Linscomb, I was like, this dude
Speaker 4: is like my son.
Speaker 2: I'd say, like five.
Speaker 4: He's like he was probably like at his peak, like
Speaker 4: five ten, like one sixty five, but just freakishly strong.
Speaker 4: Do you ever see like those wiry, strong dudes who
Speaker 4: don't look the part. But yeah, but they just have
Speaker 4: and and Tim Tim linccam's dad from an early age
Speaker 4: wanted to create the best picture in the world. And
Speaker 4: you know, when I saw him for the first time,
Speaker 4: I wanted to write about him. Reached out to his
Speaker 4: father and kept in touch with him throughout the years.
Speaker 4: And Tim Lincecam at his peak incredible, absolutely unbelievable and
Speaker 4: just it's one thing I love about baseball. You can
Speaker 4: be five foot six in jose Al Tube and win
Speaker 4: batting championships. In an MVP, you can be five foot
Speaker 4: ten and Skinny is a pixie Stick and Tim Lincicam
Speaker 4: and win multiple sims. Or you could be Randy Johnson
Speaker 4: at six foot ten or Aaron Judge at six foot seven.
Speaker 4: Like it's it's not quite basketball like in that regard,
Speaker 4: but there's a lot of basketball.
Speaker 3: To it to it.
Speaker 2: No, it's it's it's just a question do you have
Speaker 2: the skill? Do you have the skill?
Speaker 1: Your reporting was instrumental in breaking the Otani interpreter gambling story.
Speaker 1: That story, along with any others that you worked on
Speaker 1: that really come into mind as some of the crazier
Speaker 1: stories you've worked on during your tenure.
Speaker 4: I first heard the tip about Otani's gambling, and by
Speaker 4: the way, that's how it was framed to me. First
Speaker 4: tip was Shoheatani might have a gambling problem, and it's like, oh, first,
Speaker 4: the first thing I think is, oh, God, like the
Speaker 4: thing that's too good to be true actually is. And
Speaker 4: you know, I reached out to a reporter with our
Speaker 4: investigative team, t Thompson, who I knew, and she's much
Speaker 4: better at that area than I am. You know, She's
Speaker 4: got sources in places that I don't, and Tish's done
Speaker 4: an incredible job on this, and she was the one
Speaker 4: who had the conversation with Ibe Mitzuhara where that like
Speaker 4: forced the Dodgers to address this in Japan inside the clubhouse,
Speaker 4: and we were getting ready to run with that story
Speaker 4: when you know, they reach out to us and say, actually,
Speaker 4: this is not what happened. Wo Yeah, And so I
Speaker 4: was I was not quite in the middle of that.
Speaker 4: But as all of this is going on, I remember
Speaker 4: I was sitting there. I was at a gas station
Speaker 4: filling up my tag and talking to Tisha, like what
Speaker 4: is going on here? And how has this thing broken
Speaker 4: as wildly as it has? And I just you know,
Speaker 4: I look at all of this, and we're in such
Speaker 4: a such a conspiracy loving society that there's a large
Speaker 4: segment of people out there who still believe that Sho
Speaker 4: Hao Tani was the one who was gambling.
Speaker 2: I am never.
Speaker 4: Going to entirely discount any story because the world's a
Speaker 4: weird place. But I just ask those same people to
Speaker 4: read the thirty something page indictment against Dpay, to listen
Speaker 4: to the phone calls that were made by him to
Speaker 4: get money transferred out of that account. There's just a
Speaker 4: lot of evidence, and if it actually is all a
Speaker 4: cover up, it is one of the greatest cover ups
Speaker 4: in the history of the world. And I give him
Speaker 4: so much credit for covering it up like that.
Speaker 1: You did something that I think is very admirable because
Speaker 1: we live in such a day and age where clickbait
Speaker 1: runs and hot takes are prevalent, and you publicly apologize
Speaker 1: to Atani for we laugh. But I mean, I appreciate
Speaker 1: because I'm a former athlete and now transitioning in this
Speaker 1: media space. I see people and I remember as a player,
Speaker 1: I didn't like it, but I appreciate people who have
Speaker 1: an opinion and there's always the facts to your opinion.
Speaker 1: But then when you see that it's not what you
Speaker 1: thought it was, most people just let it go. You
Speaker 1: decided not to do that.
Speaker 4: Why would you ever be angry about being wrong? We're
Speaker 4: wrong at things every single day. And if I'm going
Speaker 4: to teach my children that acknowledging when you're wrong is
Speaker 4: the most important thing that you can do because it
Speaker 4: shows humility and because it shows fallibility, and because it
Speaker 4: shows vulnerability and all these things that are important in
Speaker 4: being a productive, contributing member to society, then I'm just
Speaker 4: a hypocrite if I don't do that.
Speaker 2: And also he was so good and I was so wrong.
Speaker 4: Like there's wrong and there's god damn, you fucked up
Speaker 4: this one.
Speaker 2: And you know I didn't do it.
Speaker 4: I didn't write that story, Matt for like, I don't
Speaker 4: care about clicks like that.
Speaker 2: That's the honest to god truth.
Speaker 4: I'm comfortable enough with the work that I do that
Speaker 4: I don't need validation through numbers. And I've done this
Speaker 4: for twenty five years almost now, and I'm thrilled with
Speaker 4: where my career has taken me. So you know, I
Speaker 4: can lose scoops that I'm fighting for and not beat
Speaker 4: myself up too badly. And I can get things wrong,
Speaker 4: but getting it wrong to that level. I had talked
Speaker 4: with scouts and people who had watched him all spring,
Speaker 4: and let's remember, like Shoho Tani, this is how.
Speaker 2: Talented he is.
Speaker 4: He really did struggle at the plate that spring, and
Speaker 4: he decided to make a swing change on the eve
Speaker 4: of his first season. He was leg kicking with his
Speaker 4: front leg during spring training and his timing was just
Speaker 4: all askewed. And then you know, you see it now,
Speaker 4: the little ankle twist here before he goes. That was
Speaker 4: suggested to him during the last preseason series that they
Speaker 4: had against the Angels. They did, you know, they just
Speaker 4: did a couple exhibition games down in La and Otani
Speaker 4: changes swing there and that changed the course of his career.
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: He deferred nearly seven hundred million dollars of his contract. Obviously,
Speaker 1: he's probably one of the globally the biggest stars in
Speaker 1: the world. Is there an estimate estimated amount of money
Speaker 1: you think he's making per year just all in.
Speaker 4: I mean personally, with all of the advertisements, with all
Speaker 4: of the sponsorships and stuff like that. I mean it's
Speaker 4: upward of one hundred million dollars and the Dodgers. The
Speaker 4: Los Angeles Dodgers are not the Los Angeles Dodgers.
Speaker 2: They are the show. Heyo Tani shell Corporation like that.
Speaker 4: I mean, like it's be honest, it's and and hey,
Speaker 4: good for them.
Speaker 2: They saw what the Angels never did.
Speaker 4: Goodn't They understood that Otani himself is a monolith that
Speaker 4: the game almost re around him as much as anything.
Speaker 4: They saw the international possibilities and what they could do
Speaker 4: in Japan. They saw the business possibilities, and it's it's everything.
Speaker 2: It's the tours, It's the tourists.
Speaker 4: Who come in to take them, it's the merch it's
Speaker 4: the sponsorships, It's the whole kit and kaboodle. And the
Speaker 4: Dodgers just last year became the first Major League Baseball
Speaker 4: franchise to have more than one billion dollars in revenue
Speaker 4: in one year.
Speaker 2: And they're gonna do it again this year.
Speaker 1: And probably every year after that. He's there when I
Speaker 1: grew up. Baseball stars are some of the biggest stars
Speaker 1: in sports. Rigahnison, Barry, Bonds, Dale Strawberry, you name them. Currently,
Speaker 1: major league stars haven't really broken through this new social
Speaker 1: media is not new it's been around for a while,
Speaker 1: but this social media era, why do you feel like
Speaker 1: they haven't really broken the way NBA guys have and
Speaker 1: NFL guys have.
Speaker 2: It's been better. I mean yes, like without Atani.
Speaker 4: You know Aaron Judge, nobody's like I get along with
Speaker 4: Aaron Judge.
Speaker 2: I like Aaron Judge.
Speaker 4: Nobody's ever gonna mistake him for a dynamic personality. And
Speaker 4: the fact that show he has done it without even
Speaker 4: like speaking English. I mean he can, yeah, like he's
Speaker 4: very capable of it, but he chooses not to. I
Speaker 4: think you might see it a little bit more over
Speaker 4: the next five to ten years because I feel like
Speaker 4: the baseball players who are coming up now, whether it's
Speaker 4: a guy like Junior Camonaro or a guy like Max
Speaker 4: Clark who's in TRIPA with Tigers and was a top
Speaker 4: five pick and you know, has has essentially himself grown
Speaker 4: up on social media, I think they better understand what
Speaker 4: the landscape looks like in Major League Baseball, just as
Speaker 4: an institution as a sport has never embraced that, Like
Speaker 4: it took a long time for batflips to be okay,
Speaker 4: Like he used to flip your bat and you would
Speaker 4: get drilled the next time you were at the plate.
Speaker 4: And some of those rules, I think they're still in
Speaker 4: place a little bit, but they're going away. I also
Speaker 4: think that if Major League Baseball does too much, it
Speaker 4: looks a little desperate, looks a little thirsty, like basketball
Speaker 4: is just a game that, to me was made for
Speaker 4: social media, with the clips, with the highlights, with the personalities,
Speaker 4: with the drama, with the tea, with everything that goes
Speaker 4: on in the NBA. I mean, let me ask you this,
Speaker 4: if the NBA were not the NBA, would all the
Speaker 4: smoke exist?
Speaker 3: Probably not.
Speaker 4: Like you, you grew up in a world where you know,
Speaker 4: this sort of thing is not just encouraged, it's part
Speaker 4: of the culture and it's a necessary part of the culture.
Speaker 2: And Major League Baseball's culture has just never been like that.
Speaker 1: I mean, you look at the World World Championship Baseball
Speaker 1: and just the energy around that tournament and the dancing
Speaker 1: and the bat flipping and some of the other countries
Speaker 1: brought to the game, and it kind of made it
Speaker 1: look from an outside.
Speaker 3: Looking in, like that's the fun part. That's the part
Speaker 3: that I wish.
Speaker 1: That MLB would kind of, like you said, slowly but surely,
Speaker 1: just adapt more of that type of energy. And do
Speaker 1: you see that coming in You kind of just spoked
Speaker 1: it with that new this next generation of talented players.
Speaker 1: Do you see come more of that energy coming into
Speaker 1: the game.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I do think it's like that. But and listen
Speaker 4: to the World Baseball Classic is awesome. But I think
Speaker 4: MLB is actually doing a reasonable thing in not making
Speaker 4: it like an.
Speaker 2: Actual Yeah, exactly like circus. Yeah, And.
Speaker 4: You know, I abide by the scarcity principle generally in
Speaker 4: my life. Actually, I don't like, I'm not on Twitter
Speaker 4: all that much. I don't tweet very often because when
Speaker 4: I do, it's meaningful and it matters, and it's different.
Speaker 4: And and to me, you run that event every year,
Speaker 4: it's not going to get tired, but it's a lot
Speaker 4: of special and that to me is the one part
Speaker 4: with baseball where I think it's difficult to sustain that
Speaker 4: kind of energy. It's a six month season and it's
Speaker 4: one hundred and sixty two games, like, there is a.
Speaker 2: Lot of ball, and so.
Speaker 4: To have that constantly there, I think it would just
Speaker 4: be tough to sustain the course of all the season.
Speaker 3: You gotta be young. You wrote the book on the elbow.
Speaker 1: A decade later, Tommy John surgeries are still climbing compared
Speaker 1: it to the achilles issues in the NBA. Is there
Speaker 1: anything we can do to fix this or is it
Speaker 1: just wear and tear on the body like it is
Speaker 1: in basketball.
Speaker 4: I don't know if achilles issues in basketball start because
Speaker 4: of what happens in your youth, Like do you feel
Speaker 4: like those are more acute things that as you get
Speaker 4: older and as you're a pro and as you're playing
Speaker 4: like the physical NBA game that exists right now, that
Speaker 4: it's just inevitable because to me, in baseball, this shit
Speaker 4: starts when they're like ten, And there's a wild incentive
Speaker 4: in place right now for baseball players, especially pitchers, to
Speaker 4: throw hard, because if you don't.
Speaker 2: Throw hard, you were not going to get recruited. And
Speaker 2: it used to be like if you, you know, if
Speaker 2: your fastball.
Speaker 4: Was at like eighty five miles an hour when you
Speaker 4: were in high school and you could spot it up
Speaker 4: pretty good, you know you have good control, you have
Speaker 4: good command, you were going to get recruited somewhere. Now,
Speaker 4: even if you're hitting ninety, that's not a guarantee for anything.
Speaker 2: It's it's like I'm serious here.
Speaker 4: And I saw this because my son's playing college baseball,
Speaker 4: not Division one, though, and.
Speaker 2: I've seen some really good competition.
Speaker 4: He's gone against kids thrown you know, ninety one, ninety two,
Speaker 4: ninety three, not going to D one, going to Juco.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Really, it has gotten to the point now where if
Speaker 4: you're not hitting ninety five with your fastball, you'd better
Speaker 4: have an incredible breaking bowl, or you better have a
Speaker 4: devastating change up or some sort of outlier pitch because.
Speaker 3: It's not enough. Yeah, it's not enough.
Speaker 2: And so what that does, Matt, is that creates.
Speaker 4: This business down with ten and eleven and twelve year
Speaker 4: olds where there are coaches who were saying, we will
Speaker 4: help you throw harder, and they're doing this before the kids'
Speaker 4: growth plates are closed. They're doing this before their bodies
Speaker 4: are physically developed and able to handle it. And you
Speaker 4: compound that with the excessive amount of games that they're playing.
Speaker 2: Around during the sume.
Speaker 1: It used to be it was seasonal when we grew up,
Speaker 1: as you would jump to another sport and take a
Speaker 1: little break and play something else, But now it's season
Speaker 1: I saw this.
Speaker 3: Is maybe four years ago, three years ago, where I
Speaker 3: saw a story week.
Speaker 1: Kids are options, like they don't even need the surgery,
Speaker 1: but the parents are having it done as teenagers.
Speaker 4: So that's okay, that is that's an old wives tale
Speaker 4: that that is not true.
Speaker 3: Really, Yes, where did I see that? I want to say,
Speaker 3: I saw.
Speaker 1: I thought it was pretty reputable, but maybe it's not now,
Speaker 1: so that's not true.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, and that was you know, that was one
Speaker 4: of those things. It's one of the reasons I decided
Speaker 4: to write the book, like.
Speaker 3: The spell Myths like that. Yep.
Speaker 4: I started reporting this back in twenty twelve.
Speaker 2: Okay, I was.
Speaker 4: I was sitting there, my younger son had just been born,
Speaker 4: woke up in the middle of the night, given him
Speaker 4: a bottle.
Speaker 2: It's four o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 4: You know, at four o'clock in the morning, you either
Speaker 4: have the most brilliant ideas are the dumbest shit A.
Speaker 2: Match, Yeah, exactly. And so I wasn't sure if this
Speaker 2: was that, but I was.
Speaker 4: You know, at the time, the Toronto Blue Jays had
Speaker 4: three pictures in their minor league system, and it was
Speaker 4: justin Nicolino, Aaron Sanchez and Noah Cindergarten, and they were
Speaker 4: limiting them to like an inning or two per start.
Speaker 4: And Alex Anthopolis, who runs the Braves these days, was
Speaker 4: the blue Jay general manager, and I asked him, I'm like,
Speaker 4: why are you doing that?
Speaker 2: And he said, I don't know.
Speaker 4: And I appreciated his honesty there because what he was
Speaker 4: admitting was they have no idea how to keep pictures healthy.
Speaker 2: And that blew my mind.
Speaker 4: Like half of the players on a baseball team of
Speaker 4: pitchers and you don't know what you're doing with them.
Speaker 4: And here we are, man, fourteen years after I started
Speaker 4: reporting that book, and they still don't know shit.
Speaker 1: And to back what you asked me when I asked you,
Speaker 1: I think that the achilles is a part of the
Speaker 1: wear and tear. Because now basketball, like every other sport,
Speaker 1: is not seasonal, it's year round. So these kids are
Speaker 1: coming into the NBA it's a young man's game now,
Speaker 1: but their bodies are coming in a lot older than
Speaker 1: their actual ages.
Speaker 2: Why aren't parents taking sports back?
Speaker 3: This is that is a huge question.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's not a rhetorical one either.
Speaker 4: I'm honestly flabbergasted that all of us have allowed sports
Speaker 4: youth sports chi like children.
Speaker 2: We have allowed it to become.
Speaker 4: A business that consumes our lives, and that guides so
Speaker 4: many decisions that we make. How did we lose the
Speaker 4: plot so badly that corporations that are making money hand
Speaker 4: over fist us and our children are not only doing that,
Speaker 4: but they're dog walking us at the same time, and
Speaker 4: we're just marching along to it. And I think some
Speaker 4: of it is like the desire to be good parents
Speaker 4: and to give our children all the opportunity that we can.
Speaker 4: But is this the right opportunity or is it just
Speaker 4: the opportunity that we've been stuck with?
Speaker 3: Is it hurting them at the same time?
Speaker 1: I completely agree, and I've been a big proponent because
Speaker 1: I feel like now more than ever, there's so many
Speaker 1: in my sport, at least that there's so many NBA
Speaker 1: dads that have kids that are playing. I mean, I'll
Speaker 1: go to a term and I just saw Kevin Durant,
Speaker 1: Chris Paul, you know, John wall Yep, Brad. I feel
Speaker 1: like there's so many of us Jamal Prawford that could
Speaker 1: come together and try to let's try to regulate this.
Speaker 1: But it's just it's such a big money thing now
Speaker 1: that as parents, we feel like if our kids aren't
Speaker 1: involved in sports of their passion.
Speaker 3: They're going to miss out on the opportunity.
Speaker 2: That's what it is.
Speaker 4: And and we and we get stuck with that, like
Speaker 4: there's only a finite amount of time as a parent
Speaker 4: that you have inside of that system, right, and we
Speaker 4: get fired up about it, But we also know we're
Speaker 4: going to be exiting system pretty so soon. And nobody,
Speaker 4: nobody has stepped up to fill that vacuum yet. And
Speaker 4: if they did, I worry that all the companies that
Speaker 4: are out there making this money would somehow have.
Speaker 3: Them shut up. Mm hm, I agree.
Speaker 1: Quick Hit is first team to kind of mind your
Speaker 1: favorite ballpark to cover a game at.
Speaker 4: I love San Francisco. Okay, I think.
Speaker 3: The warm a warm night or a chili night, warm
Speaker 3: knight time. It gets so cold out it's too cold.
Speaker 4: You think of California, it's not real California crazy now.
Speaker 1: In that I always say, because I'm from that, if that,
Speaker 1: if they had, if northern California had Southern California weather.
Speaker 3: It'ld be unbelievable. Everyone would live, it'd be it'd be
Speaker 3: it'd be spot worst ballpark. Oh god, there.
Speaker 2: Aren't a lot of bad ones left been redone.
Speaker 4: Trap can't feel probably sorry, I've heard a few of those.
Speaker 4: They still don't they still don't have a deal in
Speaker 4: place yet, but i'd like, I'd like to believe. And
Speaker 4: here's the thing, even even the trap like has some.
Speaker 1: Charm, Like if you like malls, best ballpark food, like,
Speaker 1: give me a historical ballpark that has like something you
Speaker 1: have to try.
Speaker 4: As far as food, every time I walk into I'm
Speaker 4: always gonna call it Comiskey Park in Chicago, every time
Speaker 4: you walk in Chicago. If you like fried grilled onions,
Speaker 4: the grilled onions smell that perme to that part like oh.
Speaker 3: On the top of a hot dog a burger doesn't matter,
Speaker 3: or just playing.
Speaker 4: Bro I'll just mainline that doesn't make a difference.
Speaker 2: Just inject that.
Speaker 3: Shit, buddy.
Speaker 1: Game seven of the World Series. You're going to choose
Speaker 1: one picture? Who are you taking?
Speaker 3: Not current? Just all time?
Speaker 2: Oh all time, all time? Oh my goodness, see currently.
Speaker 4: I was going to say, I want to say Scoobale,
Speaker 4: but Miserawski has been unbelievable this season. If I'm looking
Speaker 4: all time pictures, I want somebody who's going to bring
Speaker 4: like a.
Speaker 2: Different look from everyone.
Speaker 4: And Randy Johnson's combination of fastball and slider at six
Speaker 4: foot ten, with the extension that he has, it's just
Speaker 4: unlike anything that's out there.
Speaker 2: So just because of the traits, I would.
Speaker 4: Go Randy Johnson. I love Pedro Martinez, man Greg Maddox
Speaker 4: was an artists. These are all guys I grew up with.
Speaker 4: You know, Sandy Kofax was as dominant as you could
Speaker 4: possibly be. I grew up in Cleveland, so I heard
Speaker 4: the name Bob Feller all the time.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm going with a big unit.
Speaker 3: And he could hit you too, and will hit you.
Speaker 1: That's probably the scariest by being that the pitches are incredible,
Speaker 1: but he'll lose that every.
Speaker 3: Once in a while.
Speaker 2: And saw John Cruck and the Ulcar game.
Speaker 3: Best interview in the league right now.
Speaker 1: Oh my, he's got some personality that we wouldn't normally
Speaker 1: think or fun, fun sit down and chat with.
Speaker 4: This is tough because there are a lot of like,
Speaker 4: there are a lot of good candidates here. I think
Speaker 4: Pete crow Armstrong is really interesting. He you know, he
Speaker 4: grew up in LA but it wasn't like the rich
Speaker 4: kid baseball player, and so he's been through some stuff.
Speaker 4: He goes out there and plays with his hair on fire.
Speaker 2: But but there's also with him there questions that he
Speaker 2: has about himself.
Speaker 4: He's not he's not the baseball player who walks out
Speaker 4: there and says, I'm the shit and I'm going to
Speaker 4: dominate this game every day. And I appreciate that there's
Speaker 4: some humility there and that there's some doubt.
Speaker 2: There because it's a very relatable thing.
Speaker 1: It's a very human humanizes them. Yep, best game you've
Speaker 1: witnessed in person.
Speaker 4: I don't want to be like stuck on recency bias here.
Speaker 4: Game seven of the World Series last year was incredible, unbelievable.
Speaker 4: Game six in two thousand and eleven, the David Freese
Speaker 4: home run game. But the answer is probably Game seven
Speaker 4: in twenty sixteen, Cubs versus Indians. You know, Roger Davis
Speaker 4: hits the home run off a role as Chapman. I like,
Speaker 4: I try not to react very much in the press box,
Speaker 4: but I just remember that day. I stood up as
Speaker 4: I saw that going and I just kept saying, no
Speaker 4: fucking way.
Speaker 2: I was it happened. It was It was almost like,
Speaker 2: you know, like did that just really happened? And it did?
Speaker 4: And I'm just so lucky to get to see that.
Speaker 4: You know, I grew up in Cleveland in the nineties
Speaker 4: and the Indians work every unbelievable like every year, great players,
Speaker 4: and so it was a you know, for a sports
Speaker 4: town that's as haunted as it is, I was incredibly
Speaker 4: fortunate to see that, and that fostered my love for baseball.
Speaker 4: And so knowing that I get to go to the
Speaker 4: World Series every year, knowing I get to be at
Speaker 4: the Ulcar again, that he has to talk to these players,
Speaker 4: I I do not ever take for granted how awesome
Speaker 4: this job and life are.
Speaker 1: World Series winner this year? Well, well the Dodgers, three, Peter,
Speaker 1: are you taking the field?
Speaker 3: Dodgers? Dodgers?
Speaker 2: How do you pick against them?
Speaker 3: Hard?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Are you giving me the field? Like, I don't
Speaker 2: have to choose who it is. I could get all
Speaker 2: twenty nine.
Speaker 3: Other seams could be the field.
Speaker 2: Here's the thing.
Speaker 4: The MAC tells you to take the field, but but
Speaker 4: my eyes tell me to take the dogs.
Speaker 3: Enough.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but we also have to acknowledge that baseball is
Speaker 4: a weird game, man.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of luck and.
Speaker 2: There's a ton of luck involved in it.
Speaker 4: And the Dodgers' luck over the last couple of years
Speaker 4: has been fantastic, But their talent is it's on a question.
Speaker 1: One guest you would like to see on our show.
Speaker 1: That's a good question for you because you get to
Speaker 1: talk to everyone already.
Speaker 2: So you had any Dominicans on you?
Speaker 3: Not yet?
Speaker 1: Uh No, he have to think back.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I think Pedro would be incredible.
Speaker 1: I've been talking to his son a lot. He was
Speaker 1: actually supposed to be he didn't make the trip. But yeah,
Speaker 1: we're gonna lock Pedro down.
Speaker 2: Pedro would be good.
Speaker 4: I just I just did a show with Junior Camenaro
Speaker 4: and I like him.
Speaker 2: It was he.
Speaker 4: Really started learning English two years ago. And we sat
Speaker 4: down and he talked for an hour and a half really,
Speaker 4: and he talked about labor and he talked about growing
Speaker 4: up in the DR and it's it's not just a
Speaker 4: different world because of you know, the financial differences between
Speaker 4: the US, just the priorities there and how many kids
Speaker 4: look at baseball is their only way out and what
Speaker 4: that does in terms of again, the adults who get involved.
Speaker 4: There are some trainers who were in it for the kids.
Speaker 4: There are some trainers who were injecting ten year olds
Speaker 4: with steroids because they know that by the time they're twelve,
Speaker 4: they're going to be agreeing to contracts that they cannot
Speaker 4: sign until they're sixteen. So it's you know, Junior's ability
Speaker 4: to in a second language talk about the brokenness of
Speaker 4: his country and yet the beauty that somehow still exists there.
Speaker 2: I thought it was really wonderful.
Speaker 3: Still, well, Jeff, thank you for your time.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 1: We appreciate your work and continued success pleasures online.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3: Thank you