1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,680
Speaker 1: Welcome to tonight's classic episode, and congratulations to any of

2
00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:10,080
Speaker 1: our fellow conspiracy realist who exercised their esp to predict

3
00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:14,440
Speaker 1: what episode was coming next. You know who you are,

4
00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:18,720
Speaker 1: you extra sexy people. Perhaps you can also help law

5
00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:20,280
Speaker 1: enforcement solve the crime.

6
00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:23,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sorry, I was being silly. You are all

7
00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,320
Speaker 2: very good looking, but yeah, it's true. Law enforcement in

8
00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:31,560
Speaker 2: the past surprisingly has employed folks claiming to have the

9
00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:35,959
Speaker 2: powers to see other things that are outside of their

10
00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,479
Speaker 2: physical purview. We also know about situations where folks have

11
00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:43,720
Speaker 2: been trained by the government to use this stuff for spying.

12
00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,200
Speaker 3: It's pretty cool. Yeah. I remember we made this episode

13
00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:51,879
Speaker 3: in June of twenty eighteen, and we had just before

14
00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,720
Speaker 3: this a couple of months put out Atlanta Monster and

15
00:00:55,800 --> 00:01:00,040
Speaker 3: Ben the show talked to you specifically about psychics and

16
00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:04,320
Speaker 3: and solving crimes, because in the Atlanta missing and murdered case,

17
00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,319
Speaker 3: they brought on psychics, or rather psychics attempted to assist

18
00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,160
Speaker 3: in locating several people, right, people.

19
00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,920
Speaker 1: Who self identify as psychics. Maybe let's put it that way.

20
00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,319
Speaker 1: So this is a blast from the past or a

21
00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,280
Speaker 1: blast from the future, or you know, all things exist

22
00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:27,280
Speaker 1: at one point and linear time is a myth. Whatever.

23
00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:32,000
Speaker 1: We want to hear your thoughts. Have any psychics solved crime?

24
00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:37,000
Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies? History is

25
00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:41,399
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

26
00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,440
Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know.

27
00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,400
Speaker 3: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt

28
00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:01,120
Speaker 3: nol Is on Adventures Today.

29
00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:05,880
Speaker 1: Yes they call me Ben, but most importantly you are you.

30
00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,200
Speaker 1: You are here that makes this stuff they don't want

31
00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:11,679
Speaker 1: you to know. We just got the green light from

32
00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:15,080
Speaker 1: our super producer, Paul mission controlled decandt.

33
00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,560
Speaker 3: It is bright today too, Paul, cheez it is.

34
00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,640
Speaker 1: It must be one of those new LED bulbs.

35
00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:20,560
Speaker 3: I think that's what it is.

36
00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,120
Speaker 1: But you know, I seem to recall that one of

37
00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,760
Speaker 1: us anticipated this, Matt, maybe even predicted it.

38
00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:29,560
Speaker 3: Oh, yes, it was it you.

39
00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,520
Speaker 1: Uh, it might have been. But you and I have

40
00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:38,240
Speaker 1: made many predictions on the show right and earlier. You

41
00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:42,239
Speaker 1: predicted that today's episode would be a success.

42
00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:46,280
Speaker 3: Yes, And I am not vague, not vague.

43
00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:50,400
Speaker 1: Not vague at all. Now I have a strange inkling

44
00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:54,360
Speaker 1: that someone who is listening to the show today is

45
00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:58,360
Speaker 1: either near or not near a body of water. Well

46
00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:02,160
Speaker 1: they're either I either their their name has the letter

47
00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:06,359
Speaker 1: E in it, or they know someone who does. Oh

48
00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,480
Speaker 1: my gosh, I know spooky right.

49
00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:14,800
Speaker 3: Oh wait, I'm sensing something all right, there's a dog barking.

50
00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:17,119
Speaker 3: I can hear the yep.

51
00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:18,080
Speaker 1: Yep somewhere somewhere.

52
00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:22,560
Speaker 3: It's a It sounds like a small breed. Uh. Oh,

53
00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:24,720
Speaker 3: just be careful if you can hear that dog.

54
00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,359
Speaker 1: I'm seeing a plane or some sort of a sky.

55
00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, like a pressurized air. Yeah. I can feel the

56
00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:34,040
Speaker 3: pressure of the air pressure.

57
00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,920
Speaker 1: I think it either was a Tuesday, or will be

58
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:42,880
Speaker 1: in the future, or may even be right now. So

59
00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,400
Speaker 1: we were starting this off on a little bit of

60
00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,880
Speaker 1: a let's say, a little bit of a glib note

61
00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:51,080
Speaker 1: to you.

62
00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:52,280
Speaker 3: Just cast a net, you know.

63
00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:57,840
Speaker 1: And today, folks, we are tackling something many of you

64
00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:02,040
Speaker 1: have asked us about via email, YouTube comments back in

65
00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,240
Speaker 1: the day, and of course through social media, and that

66
00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:12,520
Speaker 1: is the nature of a psychic detective. Ultimately, the question

67
00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,960
Speaker 1: is have psychics actually solved crimes?

68
00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:20,320
Speaker 3: And we've come across several of these types of psychics, right, yeah,

69
00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:24,200
Speaker 3: that have looked into crimes, Psychics that have been involved

70
00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,520
Speaker 3: with the law in some way or another been in

71
00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,360
Speaker 3: court in fact, but what we've never delved deeply into

72
00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,800
Speaker 3: the United States history of psychics, well and outside of

73
00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:36,800
Speaker 3: the United States as well.

74
00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:40,119
Speaker 1: And so to be absolutely clear, this is a true

75
00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:40,960
Speaker 1: crime episode.

76
00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:45,400
Speaker 3: Oh yes, and that's really hot right now. We just

77
00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:45,840
Speaker 3: kind of.

78
00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,880
Speaker 1: Roll with it as an old friend again mastermind of

79
00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:51,640
Speaker 1: Atlanta Monster.

80
00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:56,000
Speaker 3: Oh yes, everything I did everything on that show. Yes, yes,

81
00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,000
Speaker 3: it's not true. That's think you should.

82
00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,680
Speaker 1: See, Matt. You are so humble and modest. That was

83
00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,279
Speaker 1: shaking his head in a what are you doing to

84
00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:06,679
Speaker 1: me ben sort of fashion.

85
00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:11,720
Speaker 3: Yes, let's talk about these old United States, the red, white,

86
00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,320
Speaker 3: and blue. Yeah, we got a bit of a problem

87
00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:19,159
Speaker 3: when it comes to people doing things that are against

88
00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:19,640
Speaker 3: the law.

89
00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:25,440
Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely, the US inarguably has a problem with crime,

90
00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:30,520
Speaker 1: and on an even more disturbing level, not only do

91
00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:32,719
Speaker 1: we have a problem with crime, but we have a

92
00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:37,919
Speaker 1: tremendous problem with solving crime. Only about half of the

93
00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,800
Speaker 1: violent crimes that take place in the US and only

94
00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:43,080
Speaker 1: about a third of property crimes that occur in the

95
00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:48,279
Speaker 1: US each year are even reported to police. So that's

96
00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:52,040
Speaker 1: not a dnion law enforcement. They can't do anything if

97
00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,000
Speaker 1: they don't know what's happening.

98
00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:59,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is an intense statistic, just knowing that there's

99
00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:04,039
Speaker 3: that much crime occurring in this huge country that the

100
00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:05,560
Speaker 3: police don't even know about.

101
00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:06,719
Speaker 1: Right wow.

102
00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:07,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

103
00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,880
Speaker 1: And there can be any number of reasons that people

104
00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,839
Speaker 1: would not report a crime. Maybe they don't want to

105
00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:17,160
Speaker 1: be implicated, or they have some some sort of sketchiness

106
00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:18,360
Speaker 1: in their past, right.

107
00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,560
Speaker 3: Well yeah, or if you take it to recent issues,

108
00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:26,600
Speaker 3: perhaps they might have a problem with immigration if they

109
00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,960
Speaker 3: were to report a crime. And that's that's a very

110
00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,200
Speaker 3: intense issue. If you know something bad has happened to you,

111
00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:36,039
Speaker 3: but if you do report it, you're probably gone from

112
00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:37,240
Speaker 3: this country, right.

113
00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:40,840
Speaker 1: And there are many reasons that are similar to this,

114
00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:45,520
Speaker 1: and often very tragic. For instance, in cases of domestic

115
00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:50,599
Speaker 1: violence or something something where someone in your family or

116
00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,080
Speaker 1: even a loved one or a spouse or a significant

117
00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,040
Speaker 1: other has done something violent to you or someone you know,

118
00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:01,240
Speaker 1: but you don't want them to go to jail. These

119
00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:05,479
Speaker 1: are only some of the causes for a lack of

120
00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,920
Speaker 1: reporting crime. But let's look at the crimes that are reported.

121
00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,600
Speaker 1: Most of the crimes that are reported in the US

122
00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,680
Speaker 1: do not result in the arrest, charging, and prosecution of

123
00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,120
Speaker 1: a suspect. And that's according to government stats.

124
00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:21,040
Speaker 3: Right, according to the Bureau of Justice statistics in twenty fifteen,

125
00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:23,200
Speaker 3: Now that's just the most recent year that we had

126
00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:27,520
Speaker 3: statistics for. In twenty fifteen, forty seven percent of the

127
00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:31,120
Speaker 3: violent crimes and thirty five percent of the property crimes

128
00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:35,120
Speaker 3: tracked by that group were reported to police. So that

129
00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:40,240
Speaker 3: is well less than half, especially violent crimes thirty five percent.

130
00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:46,320
Speaker 1: Right, This is simply the reality of the situation. It

131
00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:50,360
Speaker 1: does not matter if you are an ardent supporter of

132
00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,040
Speaker 1: law enforcement in the US or in your home country,

133
00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:56,120
Speaker 1: whatever your neck of the global woods may be. And

134
00:07:56,160 --> 00:08:00,440
Speaker 1: it does not matter if you are a committed anarchist

135
00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:02,600
Speaker 1: who believes that we should just burn this house of

136
00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:07,800
Speaker 1: cards down. As experts work around the clock, at least

137
00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:13,000
Speaker 1: in theory, to solve these various crimes and these unexplained disappearances,

138
00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:18,280
Speaker 1: they use every possible resource legally available to close the case, or,

139
00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,360
Speaker 1: in examples that we've seen in fiction such as the wire,

140
00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:24,480
Speaker 1: sometimes illegal methods.

141
00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, well, because there are a lot of problems

142
00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,720
Speaker 3: that they run into when you're dealing with a disappearance.

143
00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:33,400
Speaker 3: There may be neighbors that did actually see something that

144
00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:35,840
Speaker 3: you could have a viable witness that don't want to

145
00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,920
Speaker 3: speak to the police for other various reasons, right, I mean,

146
00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,679
Speaker 3: we can go into all those, but let's just spend

147
00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:46,040
Speaker 3: a moment on the disappearances themselves. There are as many

148
00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,880
Speaker 3: as one hundred thousand active missing persons cases in the

149
00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:54,280
Speaker 3: United States at any given time. Yes, one hundred thousand.

150
00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,120
Speaker 1: At any given moment. It does not matter if you

151
00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:02,160
Speaker 1: are listening to this podcast in twenty nineteen, twenty forty three,

152
00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:07,120
Speaker 1: any given moment since we started counting. Of these six

153
00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,800
Speaker 1: hundred ninety two thousand, nine hundred and forty four people

154
00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:15,040
Speaker 1: reported missing in twenty ten, for instance, five hundred thirty

155
00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,120
Speaker 1: one thousand, nine hundred and twenty eight were under the

156
00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:20,079
Speaker 1: age of eighteen. These are kids too.

157
00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,559
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that is an awful statistic.

158
00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:27,439
Speaker 1: And we have more information regarding the statistic.

159
00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:27,920
Speaker 3: Is that correct?

160
00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:28,120
Speaker 1: Oh?

161
00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:32,520
Speaker 3: Yeah? According to the National Crime Information Center, that's the NCIC,

162
00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,199
Speaker 3: three hundred and fifty five thousand, two hundred and forty

163
00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:40,400
Speaker 3: three women were reported missing in twenty ten compared to

164
00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,400
Speaker 3: three hundred and thirty seven thousand, six hundred and sixty men,

165
00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:49,400
Speaker 3: So not that much of a difference. But more women

166
00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:51,280
Speaker 3: going missing here in twenty ten.

167
00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:55,120
Speaker 1: And either way, even if we put gender divisions or

168
00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:58,960
Speaker 1: how people identify aside, we're still looking at hundreds of

169
00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:03,920
Speaker 1: thousands of people. And when we talk about missing persons,

170
00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:10,120
Speaker 1: we need to immediately bust some myths, some missing person myths.

171
00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:14,600
Speaker 1: It was oddly hard to say, Matt. First things, First,

172
00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,120
Speaker 1: you do not have to wait twenty four hours to

173
00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,319
Speaker 1: report a missing person. That is one of the most

174
00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:23,160
Speaker 1: dangerous misconceptions.

175
00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:23,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

176
00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:29,360
Speaker 1: And second, if you are an adult can choose to

177
00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:34,600
Speaker 1: go missing. You can report somebody who doesn't want to

178
00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,040
Speaker 1: be found, but it's within their legal right in most

179
00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,640
Speaker 1: cases in general, to ghosts if they wish. Wow, unless

180
00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,680
Speaker 1: you know doing that also violates a law such as

181
00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:45,839
Speaker 1: jumping bail.

182
00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:50,559
Speaker 3: Oh sure, And not to mention maybe the bill collectors right,

183
00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:54,240
Speaker 3: because you're probably paying somebody something on a monthly basis.

184
00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:58,040
Speaker 1: Sure, statistically that's true. And again, this is just the US,

185
00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,160
Speaker 1: so let us know how laws work in your country.

186
00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:04,520
Speaker 1: It may affect your experience with this topic we're exploring today.

187
00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,200
Speaker 1: In the United States, however, many of the people who

188
00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:12,599
Speaker 1: are reported missing are found within a few days. Unfortunately,

189
00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:16,319
Speaker 1: many other people will either not be found alive or

190
00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:19,640
Speaker 1: in some cases, not be found at all.

191
00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,360
Speaker 3: And there really is a ticking clock situation here when

192
00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:28,680
Speaker 3: someone goes missing, every passing moment lessons that likelihood of

193
00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:32,240
Speaker 3: their safe recovery. You've heard that forty eight hours, that

194
00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,920
Speaker 3: two days that we just mentioned before is the most

195
00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:38,960
Speaker 3: crucial time to find a missing person, and it really is.

196
00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:41,319
Speaker 3: And as there are a lot of factors there too.

197
00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,960
Speaker 3: It has to do with police being able to put

198
00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:47,600
Speaker 3: their resources into a case. Sure, I mean, you know,

199
00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,480
Speaker 3: what could happen to you within forty eight hours. There's

200
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:51,880
Speaker 3: just all kinds of factors there.

201
00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:56,400
Speaker 1: Racism and prejudice play an enormous role in this, either

202
00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:01,800
Speaker 1: systemic on the institutional level, wherefore, some reason of racism

203
00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,920
Speaker 1: or prejudice, a police precinct is not given the resources

204
00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:09,280
Speaker 1: it needs to address crime or individual matters of prejudice

205
00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,360
Speaker 1: where people say, oh, you know, people like that fall

206
00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,160
Speaker 1: off the grid all the time. He's probably just on

207
00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:20,720
Speaker 1: heroin or coeludes or something, and he'll come to eventually,

208
00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:21,600
Speaker 1: they'll show up.

209
00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:24,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a real factor. And just that the fact

210
00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,240
Speaker 3: that there are all these people going missing every year

211
00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,040
Speaker 3: moment to moment, then all the other violent crimes, all

212
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,520
Speaker 3: of the nonviolent crimes that have to be investigated, and

213
00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:35,720
Speaker 3: you think about the resource problem and it just becomes overwhelming.

214
00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,240
Speaker 1: And then let's also factor in something that will become

215
00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:43,360
Speaker 1: very very important to today's episode. Media coverage.

216
00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:45,040
Speaker 3: Oh this is huge.

217
00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:52,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, So if a prominent person goes missing, say a

218
00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:55,599
Speaker 1: someone who is the child of a very important politician

219
00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,960
Speaker 1: or a very wealthy family, or if a celebrity goes

220
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:03,160
Speaker 1: missing or something public figure, then the media will latch on.

221
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,440
Speaker 1: And this means that a national spotlight is suddenly put

222
00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:07,520
Speaker 1: on the police department.

223
00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:08,960
Speaker 3: It's like the Patty Hurst case.

224
00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:13,240
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's a great example. It's no surprise then

225
00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,520
Speaker 1: that in some cases, perhaps more cases than you might assume,

226
00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:21,360
Speaker 1: police have employed unorthodox methods in their search for missing

227
00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:26,200
Speaker 1: persons or their quest to solve a crime. Here are

228
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:32,120
Speaker 1: the facts, friends, neighbors. You have probably heard apocryphal tales

229
00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,560
Speaker 1: of a police department at its wits end finally resorting

230
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:37,679
Speaker 1: to something that sounds like it's straight out of a

231
00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,600
Speaker 1: fantasy novel or an episode of the Twilight Zone, the

232
00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:46,600
Speaker 1: original series The Goodwin And that's an official law enforcement

233
00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:53,199
Speaker 1: organization actually contacting self proclaimed psychics for assistance with a case.

234
00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:57,640
Speaker 3: Yes, this is a very real thing, and it comes

235
00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:00,600
Speaker 3: about in roughly two ways. The first, this one is

236
00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,640
Speaker 3: the psychic. This is the majority of the cases, by

237
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,040
Speaker 3: the way that you hear about this, the psychic themselves

238
00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,480
Speaker 3: like contacts the police and says, hey, I heard about

239
00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,199
Speaker 3: this thing in the news. I need to tell you,

240
00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:14,840
Speaker 3: I need to talk to you about what I think

241
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,120
Speaker 3: I've found or let me help you at least right right.

242
00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:23,120
Speaker 1: And this is huge. So when a case receives especially

243
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:26,920
Speaker 1: if it receives national attention from a syndicated news source,

244
00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:33,040
Speaker 1: thousands of calls can roll into the precinct. And of

245
00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:35,800
Speaker 1: those thousands of calls, you'd be surprised how many of

246
00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:43,560
Speaker 1: them are calls from people claiming that through some extrasensory ability,

247
00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,200
Speaker 1: right through some sort of extrasensory perception.

248
00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:49,480
Speaker 3: Or dream or a vision or something, yeah.

249
00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:52,960
Speaker 1: Exactly, a dream or a vision, they have received something

250
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,800
Speaker 1: that could help with the case. And many of the

251
00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:00,000
Speaker 1: other calls are going to be people who are saying

252
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,480
Speaker 1: reporting a suspicious person like in America's Most Wanted, they

253
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,880
Speaker 1: say this person is suicide. Build here's a sketch, or

254
00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,440
Speaker 1: here's a photo, and then you know they're inundated with

255
00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:16,160
Speaker 1: calls because someone you know in like ham Lake, Minnesota

256
00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,720
Speaker 1: or something, which is the real place, thought that they

257
00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:24,920
Speaker 1: saw a roughly six foot one guy with a beard

258
00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:27,760
Speaker 1: and a hoodie and that matched the description.

259
00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:28,520
Speaker 3: Right, yep.

260
00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:33,080
Speaker 1: But we're focusing on the psychics, and the majority of cases,

261
00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,360
Speaker 1: as you said, Matt, are going to be someone who

262
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:43,480
Speaker 1: believes they have psychic abilities contacting the investigating authorities with

263
00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:44,760
Speaker 1: the best of intentions.

264
00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can help you. Yeah, I believe that I

265
00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,400
Speaker 3: found this and I want to tell you about.

266
00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,000
Speaker 1: And we want to say this at the front. Most

267
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:56,800
Speaker 1: of these calls are from people who genuinely believe they're

268
00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:01,160
Speaker 1: doing the right thing. Are their hoaxes, Yes, of course, sure.

269
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:05,240
Speaker 3: Are there charlatans, absolutely, but not all of these people

270
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:06,480
Speaker 3: are in any way.

271
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,800
Speaker 1: Right, at least not purposely so.

272
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:09,520
Speaker 3: Yes.

273
00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:13,360
Speaker 1: And the second method, and this is far less frequent

274
00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,680
Speaker 1: and far more interesting, would be when members of law

275
00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:23,080
Speaker 1: enforcement may reach out unofficially to a psychic. This happens

276
00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,480
Speaker 1: way less often the works of fiction, which have you believe,

277
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:32,760
Speaker 1: and often when it does happen, there's a very strange,

278
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:37,520
Speaker 1: convoluted series of events that occurs. We will see maybe

279
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:41,960
Speaker 1: family members of the missing person themselves reach out to

280
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:46,200
Speaker 1: a psychic and then they act as the middle ground, right,

281
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:50,320
Speaker 1: the connecting tissue between law enforcement and the psychic. Or

282
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:55,080
Speaker 1: we may see a member of law enforcement on their

283
00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:59,160
Speaker 1: own reach out. Yes, so not like an official letter

284
00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,480
Speaker 1: from the police chief saying, Madam Bell, please help us

285
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:08,119
Speaker 1: find the notorious Uh uh tempany drum Thief.

286
00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:12,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, the timpany drum Thief was a notorious of it

287
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:14,960
Speaker 3: for syth Central High School. I remember him.

288
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,359
Speaker 1: We were originally when we started this podcast years and

289
00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,240
Speaker 1: years ago, we were originally just going to make it

290
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:20,960
Speaker 1: about that case.

291
00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:22,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know that was gonna be the whole thing.

292
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:25,840
Speaker 3: It was going to be called Drum Disappeared.

293
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and uh could you could you say the title again?

294
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,720
Speaker 1: And Paul, could you could you throw in that theme

295
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,760
Speaker 1: music we we used for our original demo, which I

296
00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:37,960
Speaker 1: think is just a timpany drum.

297
00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:40,000
Speaker 3: This week on Drum Disappeared?

298
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,480
Speaker 1: Uh, what a surefire hit, right, You.

299
00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,480
Speaker 3: Know, I feel like we really missed the boat there.

300
00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,400
Speaker 3: We need to we need to keep working on that show.

301
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:56,919
Speaker 1: We missed the beatd but no true story. These things happen.

302
00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:59,679
Speaker 1: Maybe not as much as we would like to believe,

303
00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,960
Speaker 1: but it's startling that they happen at all. And there

304
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:07,760
Speaker 1: are multiple examples of this in the real world. So

305
00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:11,280
Speaker 1: let's go with the category that you proposed first, Matt,

306
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,720
Speaker 1: which is an example of psychics contacting the police.

307
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,159
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and we'll do that right after a word from

308
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:18,800
Speaker 3: our sponsor.

309
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,600
Speaker 1: Let's set the scene. It's the first of May two

310
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:33,160
Speaker 1: thousand and one, and a Washington DC intern named Chandra

311
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:38,480
Speaker 1: Levy goes missing psychics from around the world, not just

312
00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:43,680
Speaker 1: in the United States hall and they provide tips from

313
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:48,119
Speaker 1: realizations they've seen, revelations they've experienced, dreams or visions that

314
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:52,440
Speaker 1: they have had, and they many of them say that

315
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,600
Speaker 1: Levy is dead, that one way or another, she has died.

316
00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,840
Speaker 1: And many of their tips were suggestions or where to

317
00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:05,600
Speaker 1: search for her body. Some of these were vague and

318
00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,760
Speaker 1: some of them were a little more specific. And that's

319
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:15,280
Speaker 1: interesting because typically what we find in these cases is

320
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:19,800
Speaker 1: that psychic detectives are generally going to be kind of

321
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,320
Speaker 1: vague because they're working off what they feel are intuitive,

322
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:31,960
Speaker 1: intuitive sensations. Yeah, so one prediction was that her body

323
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,320
Speaker 1: would be found in the basement of a Smithsonian storage

324
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,160
Speaker 1: building kind of specific.

325
00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, really specific. Then another one would be just somewhere

326
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:42,080
Speaker 3: in the Potomac.

327
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,399
Speaker 1: River, somewhere in the Nevada Desert.

328
00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,760
Speaker 3: And you know, when you get to an entire river

329
00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:51,280
Speaker 3: or an entire desert, it's not really a prediction, it's

330
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:53,800
Speaker 3: you know, like you said, a feeling that they may

331
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:58,200
Speaker 3: have had or a vision. It's just hard to narrow

332
00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 3: any of that down. And each of each of these

333
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,760
Speaker 3: tips really didn't lead anywhere for the investigators.

334
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,480
Speaker 1: Right, they were all dead ends. And of course the

335
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:11,960
Speaker 1: people who are making these predictions aren't saying, you know,

336
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,520
Speaker 1: they're not holding the information hostage. It's very important. They're

337
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:19,000
Speaker 1: not saying they're buried somewhere in the Nevada Desert, I

338
00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:24,760
Speaker 1: know where, buy my book, or pay me the ransom

339
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:26,840
Speaker 1: fee if there is one, or something like that. It's

340
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 1: not financially related in that way. A little more than

341
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,719
Speaker 1: a year after her disappearance, Levy's body was discovered by

342
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:38,000
Speaker 1: a man walking his dog in a remote section of

343
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:42,960
Speaker 1: not the Smithsonian, not the Potomac, not the Nevada Desert, but.

344
00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:48,119
Speaker 3: In Rock Creek Park, which is in northwest DC.

345
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,520
Speaker 1: So out of all of the people from around the

346
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,000
Speaker 1: world who called in. They were all wrong so far

347
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,879
Speaker 1: as we know, according to the police department, according to

348
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,600
Speaker 1: the media sources we could find, and we have other examples.

349
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:06,000
Speaker 3: Yes, Elizabeth Smart is another person who disappeared, this time

350
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,760
Speaker 3: in June of two thousand and two, and in this case,

351
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:14,959
Speaker 3: police received about nine thousand tips from psychics, and the

352
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:19,040
Speaker 3: Salt Lake City Police Chief, Lieutenant Chris Burbank, he said

353
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,480
Speaker 3: that responding to all of these, you know, all this advice,

354
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:26,439
Speaker 3: it's unsolicited advice, it's just sent to them. It ate

355
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:30,040
Speaker 3: up so many hours of police work. And the family

356
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:35,200
Speaker 3: of Elizabeth Smart maintains that they received zero significant assistance

357
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:38,400
Speaker 3: from psychics, which is sad that there are that many

358
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,320
Speaker 3: people trying to help but no dice.

359
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,240
Speaker 1: And there's a strange thing that occurs here too, because

360
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,440
Speaker 1: we could say, maybe the police department does not want

361
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:53,880
Speaker 1: to officially acknowledge that their lead came from some inexplicable phenomenon, right,

362
00:21:54,520 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 1: But it's tougher to say that the family would all

363
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,920
Speaker 1: also participate in some kind of cover up. Because they

364
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:07,159
Speaker 1: have no official institution binding them, they are free to

365
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 1: say what they wish. So in both of those cases,

366
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 1: it appears that again officially, none of these people were

367
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 1: able to help in a meaningful way. And furthermore, it

368
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 1: appears they were harming the investigation with the best of intentions,

369
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 1: because they were eating up hours that police could have

370
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 1: spent chasing other leads. And one of the things we

371
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 1: have to realize is in these examples and the other

372
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 1: examples we're exploring, it's not as if the police got

373
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 1: a phone call from a psychic and said, Okay, whoop

374
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 1: do you do. I'll get right on that. Let me

375
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 1: dial you up by a crystal from a crystal ball.

376
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 1: Even if they did think it was a load of bunk,

377
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:57,440
Speaker 1: they at least compiled it, you know, gave it, gave

378
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 1: it consideration, probably not as a credible but they want

379
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: to have a record because if you if, for instance,

380
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 1: if of those nine thousand calls in a case like this,

381
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 1: even fifteen hundred or a thousand of them said hey,

382
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 1: there's this abandoned drug store on some city street fourth

383
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 1: and eighth, then you can you can be damn well

384
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 1: sure they're going to send somebody to fourth and eighth, absolutely,

385
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 1: just because the same place is being reported so often.

386
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,719
Speaker 1: We also found that some psychics attain a degree of

387
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 1: fame or maybe notoriety is a better word, by repeatedly

388
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 1: attempting to assist law enforcement or appearing to assist law enforcement.

389
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 3: Yes. One of the most famous examples of this kind

390
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 3: of thing is the late Sylvia Celeste Brown. She was

391
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 3: once known as America's most controversial psychic, which is you know,

392
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,639
Speaker 3: a moniker that makes sense?

393
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, that came from from a writer working with the Guardian,

394
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 1: so that was a British papers perspective.

395
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 3: Yes, she had all kinds of television appearances.

396
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, she was on Larry King Live, she was on

397
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 1: Montel Williams. She had been a repeat guest on Coast

398
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 1: to Coast AM, which is has always been one of

399
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: my favorite am radio shows. Additionally, yes, we must say

400
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 1: fairly well to Art Bell, who recently passed away and

401
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 1: was a longtime host of Coast to Coast AM. You

402
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: are missed well. I brought the mood down there. But

403
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 1: she appeared on a lot of shows.

404
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 3: Yes, she did. Let's go through some of the cases

405
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 3: that she, let's say, worked on. Yeah. In nineteen ninety

406
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 3: nine she said that the six year old opal Joe Jennings,

407
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 3: who had disappeared a month earlier had been forced into

408
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 3: slavery in Japan, and later that year a local man

409
00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 3: was convicted of kidnapping and murdering Jennings in that's not

410
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 3: at all what she had alluded to. And then in

411
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 3: two thousand and three, in autopsy of jennings remains, found

412
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 3: that she had died within hours of her abduction.

413
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 1: So no Japan, no human trafficking, a local criminal and

414
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 1: she died within hours.

415
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:22,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

416
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: In two thousand and two, Brown claimed to have realizations

417
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 1: psychic realizations that is, about the fate of someone named

418
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 1: Holly Crusen, who disappeared in nineteen ninety five. Krusin Brown

419
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 1: claimed was working as an exotic dancer at a Hollywood nightclub. However,

420
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 1: in two thousand and six, dental records were used to

421
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 1: identify a body found in nineteen ninety six in San

422
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 1: Diego as that of Holly Crusin. So, in one case,

423
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 1: she claims that someone is alive and they are enslaved

424
00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 1: in a foreign country. They are dead, and they died

425
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 1: relatively close to where they were kidnapped. In the other case,

426
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 1: she claims that someone is alive when they've been dead

427
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 1: for quite a while.

428
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 3: So yeah, and there's more, and there is more. In

429
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 3: the year two thousand, a woman named Linda McClelland disappeared,

430
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 3: and then in two years later, in two thousand and two,

431
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 3: Brown claimed that she had been taken by a man

432
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 3: with the initials MJ and was alive somewhere in Orlando, Florida,

433
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 3: and she was going to be found soon, That's what

434
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 3: she said. And then in two thousand and three, McClellan's son,

435
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 3: David Rapaski, who had been present at Brown's reading, was

436
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 3: convicted of murdering McClellan, and her remains were found just

437
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,959
Speaker 3: really close to her home in Pennsylvania. Again just so

438
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 3: far off the mark here.

439
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 1: Right, and this is two thousand and two, right, so

440
00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: it's the same year as the cruising example. There was

441
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: another person who disappeared in two thousand. That was a

442
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 1: nineteen year old named Ryan Catcher, and Brown in two

443
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,959
Speaker 1: thousand and four claimed that Cattra had been murdered and

444
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 1: his body would be found in a metal shaft in

445
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: two thousand and six. Two years later, his body was

446
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: found in his truck at the bottom of a pond,

447
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: and the autopsy indicated he had died due to drowning.

448
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 3: Now that one is that is the closest that I

449
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 3: think she came right.

450
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: And it may sound as if we are cherry picking

451
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 1: to find unsuccessful cases. That's something that a lot of

452
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: supporters of this practice will will argue, right, yes, we

453
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: are pulling these from Admittedly a skeptical source called The

454
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 1: Skeptical Enquirer, so they mapped several studies of her work

455
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: over a couple of years. In twenty ten, they published

456
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: a three years study that was written by Ryan Schaeffer

457
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 1: and Agatha Jadwiscous that examined Brown's predictions about missing persons

458
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: and murder cases. This is over the span of three years.

459
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 3: Right.

460
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: Despite Brown's repeated claims to be more than eighty five

461
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,199
Speaker 1: percent correct, this study reported that quote Brown has not

462
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: even been mostly correct in a single case. They compared

463
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 1: the psychics televised statements about one hundred and fifteen cases

464
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 1: with newspaper reports and said that in the twenty five

465
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: cases where the actual outcome was known, wherein experts found

466
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 1: the body or found the person, or they found the

467
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: method of death, et cetera, that in those twenty five cases,

468
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: Brown was completely wrong in every single one, and in

469
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: the rest, they said, where the final outcome was unknown,

470
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: They couldn't substantiate their her case. They couldn't say whether

471
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: she was right or wrong because not enough information right

472
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 1: other than her belief that, you know, she was legitimately

473
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: receiving signals from some other source. And then they did

474
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: a follow up study in twenty thirteen.

475
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 3: Yes, and this one it looked at some of the

476
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 3: more recent predictions by Brown, as well as the predictions

477
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 3: that had earlier been classified as undetermined because there were

478
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 3: you know, there wasn't enough information, because a lot of

479
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 3: those were now largely resolved. And according to Schaeffer, Brown

480
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 3: was mostly or completely wrong in thirty three cases and

481
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 3: mostly accurate in none.

482
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: And to this day, as supporters of Brown will will

483
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: typically say that this record looks bad because people were

484
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: again only picking out unsuccessful cases. The folks at the

485
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 1: skeptical inquirer will argue that they gave a comprehensive look

486
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: at all possible instances where Brown would have been correct.

487
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: People also say, well, maybe the police department is not

488
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:06,719
Speaker 1: telling the whole truth, which unfortunately is a not uncommon

489
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 1: occurrence in the US nowadays and in the past. Let's

490
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: look at an example of police contacting a psychic of

491
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: the much less common Dare I say, much more fascinating

492
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 1: category that we mentioned.

493
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think this category is born from desperation

494
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 3: from a police department or law enforcement agency, at least

495
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 3: it is in this first example. So, in nineteen eighty,

496
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 3: the Atlanta Police Department contacted a self proclaimed psychic named

497
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 3: Dorothy Allison, and they were contacting her to assist with

498
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 3: finding a serial killer that they could not locate. And

499
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 3: this is according to the Washington Post from nineteen eighty.

500
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 3: So at the time, Dorothy was working on or she

501
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 3: had just written this book, and she was on a

502
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 3: book tour. It was called a Psychic Story. And she

503
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 3: had recently gone on what is it the Phil Donahue Show,

504
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 3: which was huge at the time, one of those talk shows.

505
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 3: And after this appearance, apparently according to this article and

506
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 3: according to City Hall of Atlanta, the citizens, numerous citizens

507
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 3: were just flooding their phone networks with people saying, you

508
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 3: need to talk to Dorothy Allison. She's going to help

509
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 3: you out. So this is in the midst of the

510
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 3: Atlanta child murders which occurred from nineteen seventy nine to

511
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 3: eighty one, and at this point within the Atlanta child murders,

512
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 3: where there were thirty plus victims of mostly children, there

513
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 3: were already ten young black children who had disappeared and

514
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 3: then been found murdered, and then there were four others

515
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 3: who were actively missing.

516
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 1: Several other ones hadn't been reported.

517
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 3: Yet exactly, and there were no major suspects in the

518
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 3: case at this moment. So the department itself, the police department,

519
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 3: along with the task force that they created and the

520
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 3: FBI are just desperate to get any lead, anything at all.

521
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 3: So they called her. And according to Dorothy Allison, she

522
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 3: had worked with police in more than a hundred cases,

523
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 3: including the Patty Hurst case, the kidnapping, as well as

524
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 3: the John Gaysey murders the John Wayne Gacy murders. She

525
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 3: also stated within this article after speaking to people there,

526
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 3: that she had helped find more than fifty missing persons

527
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 3: through her visions. So she's claiming that over fifty people

528
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 3: have been found by her. Here's the tough thing. Even

529
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 3: the mothers of some of these children who were slain,

530
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,479
Speaker 3: the victims, they were really hopeful that Dorothy might actually

531
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 3: come in and find something that just the police investigations.

532
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 3: The more mundane ways of finding somebody. It wasn't working.

533
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 3: They were hopeful that Dorothy could. There's a quote here

534
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,719
Speaker 3: from Willie May Mathis, who was the mother of one

535
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 3: of the victims, Jeffrey Mathis, and she said, I believe

536
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 3: in Dorothy Allison. She is not raising false hopes, but

537
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 3: I pray she'll tell me my child is still alive.

538
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 3: And that kind of the sense that you give a victim,

539
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 3: a victim's family member when you have a psychic coming

540
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 3: in that there's hope or something at the end of

541
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 3: the tunnel. It's so positive and negative at the same time,

542
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 3: which is fascinating to me.

543
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: It's powerful. I could tell that it really got to

544
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: you as well in the course of your research.

545
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 3: It moved you, well, it did, because I want to

546
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 3: believe that Dorothy was trying to help out, but I

547
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 3: know she's also trying to sell her book. She's actively

548
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 3: trying to sell her book, and this is a huge

549
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 3: national case, and she's putting herself in front of the

550
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 3: camera when she's doing this investigation. She's being driven around

551
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 3: in a limousine right with three days yes, and taking

552
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 3: what they referred to after the fact, a wild goose Chase.

553
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 3: She named over thirty names of who it possibly could

554
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 3: be forty two I think, yeah, it was closer to

555
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 3: forty two. Williams was not in there, although I believe

556
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 3: she claims that Williams was in there. Wayne Williams is

557
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 3: the name of the person eventually who's convicted of these crimes.

558
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 3: In the end, it seems like she didn't lead them anywhere.

559
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 1: And we were looking because I was helping with a

560
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: little bit of the research for the Monster Show, and

561
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,720
Speaker 1: one of the things we found was that many people

562
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: associated with law enforcement APD at the time did not

563
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: buy this lady's story.

564
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, they didn't want it to even happen, because her

565
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 3: story is that she helped all these people. Was an

566
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 3: investigator from New Jersey that would be her interpreter for

567
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 3: other police departments, because she would give these vague descriptions

568
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 3: and then this interpreter would go through and say, well,

569
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 3: you know, this is what she.

570
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: Really means, right, And there's something oracular about that because

571
00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 1: it calls to mind, you know, the ways that profits

572
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: or sears of old would have a spiritual revelation, say

573
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 1: at Delphi or something, and then someone else would interpret

574
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:14,399
Speaker 1: that for the common people. Yeah, the non enlightened amongst us.

575
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're writing that line between if something like this

576
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 3: was real, perhaps you would need something like that, but

577
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 3: then also if it's not real, it's a helpful tool

578
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 3: to kind of obfuscate what's going on.

579
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: So now the question that I can predict is on

580
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: everyone's mind, is ah, Matt Ben Paul mission controlled decandt

581
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 1: are you all really telling us that this is an

582
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: enormous con job? Is the stuff they don't want you

583
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: to know in this episode, the fact that some psychics

584
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 1: don't want you to know they actually don't have powers.

585
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: Are you going to spend this entire time pooh poohing

586
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 1: the hope that families have? Not quite? Not quite? And

587
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,879
Speaker 1: it's surprised. Frankly, it surprised both of us to find this.

588
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: And they all, oddly enough come from Australia. What yes, yes, down,

589
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 1: Nda down, Anda, Am I saying that correctly? Melbourne?

590
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's right, Melbourne, Melbourne.

591
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:27,840
Speaker 1: Oh boy, we're gonna get a letter about that. So yes.

592
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: In two thousand and one, the body of Thomas Braun

593
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: b r a u N was located by a Perth

594
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: based clairvoyant named Leanna Adams in Western Australia. The body

595
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: was in Western Australia. Rather, Braun's family had been told

596
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 1: to contact Adams. They didn't come out, they didn't come

597
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 1: up with this idea of whole cloth. Adams went to

598
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 1: Alice Springs in the Northern Territory of Australia and apparently

599
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,800
Speaker 1: she took the family members directly to Thomas Braun's remains

600
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 1: and it was in a ridge that was about twenty

601
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 1: kilometers west of town. They couldn't immediately identify the body,

602
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: but Adams, again, according to the story, said note that

603
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: is him, and police later confirmed the remains to be

604
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: his through DNA testing. That's astonishing, it's just the surface

605
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 1: of that is true. Right, And again this psychic was

606
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: based in Perth. And that's not the only case that

607
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 1: comes to us from Australia. We'll have a couple more

608
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: for you. Stay tuned after the break. So here's another one.

609
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 1: If we jump around in time a little bit. This

610
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 1: one messes, I think with geography the most. In Sydney, Australia,

611
00:37:54,680 --> 00:38:00,919
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety six, the fiance of a missing person

612
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 1: named Paula Brown approached a psychic named Philippe Durant to

613
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 1: ask for help.

614
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 3: I think it's Philip Durrant. Philip, I just so you

615
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 3: understand how it's spelled, Philip Durant.

616
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 1: Yesh So Durrant told the police the location of Paula

617
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 1: Brown's body. Durrant himself did not physically go and find

618
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: the body. It was spotted within two miles of where

619
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:33,919
Speaker 1: he predicted it would be found by a lorry driver

620
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: who came across the remains, and this prompted a statement

621
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 1: that changed the game for people who are advocates of

622
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: psychic detective work. It was this.

623
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 3: Even though the body was discovered purely by chance, the

624
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:53,360
Speaker 3: speculation by a clairvoyant appears to have been uncannily accurate.

625
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,320
Speaker 3: Which is a quote from ast spokesperson from the police

626
00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 3: department there, and it's I mean, it's true. If you

627
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 3: just pointed on a map somewhere and said, I think

628
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 3: that's where it is, and then within two kilometers that's

629
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 3: where the person is, that's at least the chances are

630
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 3: very slim for that.

631
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: I mean, some people would argue they're not as slim

632
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: as we would think, but I feel, at the very

633
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: least it's a stunning coincidence that's true, very least.

634
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,240
Speaker 3: It is going to happen every once in a while,

635
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 3: right sure, yeah, just by odds, but it feels extra special.

636
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,879
Speaker 1: There was another let's call it a near miss. This

637
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,919
Speaker 1: is a weird one and it's much more recent. In

638
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,720
Speaker 1: August of twenty ten, an Aboriginal elder named Cheryl Carol

639
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 1: Loggerway claimed that she had seen the location of a

640
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,320
Speaker 1: missing child, a child named Keisha Abraham's, in a dream.

641
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: That the location of this body came to her in

642
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 1: a dream. Police had been investigating the disappearance, and Carol

643
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: Loggerway took them, took law enforcement to a look where

644
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,320
Speaker 1: they did in fact find a dead body.

645
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 3: However, it was a body of an adult female, not

646
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 3: of the child, fortunately unfortunately.

647
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 1: Right, So it was another maybe we could call it

648
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 1: a near miss.

649
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:22,240
Speaker 3: But in that situation, what happened there? Could she sense

650
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 3: the dead body somehow? I mean that again is astonishing

651
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 3: to me?

652
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: Right, And if someone is being skeptical, they might say, well,

653
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 1: did she know of the dead body? And feel like

654
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: this was the safest way to reveal it? Maybe you

655
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: know there are layers to that tail. Oh yeah, So

656
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 1: the question then becomes has any psychic actually solved a case.

657
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. No, well, officially no, right,

658
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 1: The official answer is almost always going to be heck no,

659
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 1: even in cases where individuals, family members, relatives, or law

660
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: enforcement professionals believe psychics did provide some sort of assistance.

661
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 1: In fact, multiple law enforcement agencies have official statements claiming

662
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,319
Speaker 1: they have never and are not currently and will not

663
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 1: in the future, treat psychic advice as quote credible information.

664
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,760
Speaker 1: Not even Australia, they say they do not officially accept

665
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: assistance from psychics in most cases, don't call us, We'll

666
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:32,399
Speaker 1: call you, for lack of a better phrase. However, in

667
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,839
Speaker 1: Western Australia, the Western Australia Police say that while they

668
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,800
Speaker 1: will not seek out info from psychics, they will accept

669
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 1: info if it is offered.

670
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think that's the way to handle it.

671
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 3: On the off chance that somebody gets lucky or actually

672
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,839
Speaker 3: does have some kind of powers and know something, we'll

673
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 3: take it. But for now we're going to focus on

674
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:52,839
Speaker 3: police work.

675
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: Let's look at some other countries. New Zealand. New Zealand

676
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 1: and the United Kingdom also do not officially interact with

677
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 1: psychic or the phrase they use spiritual based information, spiritually

678
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 1: derived information. Although again there's another interesting twist.

679
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, the United Kingdom's Metropolitan Police was a bit shady

680
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 3: about the way they handle this thing. They're saying, quote,

681
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 3: we do not identify people we may or may not

682
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,240
Speaker 3: speak with in connection with inquiries. We are not prepared

683
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 3: to discuss this further. Just gotta leave that door open.

684
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 1: That is so sketchy. I wouldn't say it's a bit shady.

685
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 1: We do not identify people we may or may not

686
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: speak with in connection with inquiries. We're not prepared to

687
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 1: discuss this further. It sounds like they're not specifically referring

688
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 1: to the question at all to psychic detectives any that

689
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 1: could be anything, as that's a blanket statement that also covers,

690
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 1: for instance, seis or other inmates or something.

691
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 3: And you know, for some reason in that phrase, that

692
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 3: whole phrase feels very British to me.

693
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 1: Right, It reminds me of CIA speak. Yeah, it's spook speak.

694
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: But the that's the thing they're not saying yes or no.

695
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 3: Dude, they're hiding. What they're doing with that is they're

696
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 3: hiding their interaction with some master AI that they're working

697
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 3: with to solve crimes. That's what they're.

698
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,760
Speaker 1: Doing, right. This is this similar to that episode where

699
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 1: we asked if technology would lead us to a point

700
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: where we can predict the future. The answer, by the way,

701
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 1: if you haven't heard the episode, is almost Yeah, we're

702
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 1: almost there and show will probably still be on when

703
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:45,360
Speaker 1: that happens.

704
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 3: Right, And then you think about the massive network of

705
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 3: security cameras that exist in London alone and some of

706
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 3: this other stuff. That's what's happening, dude.

707
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 1: That is it is true. By the way, my co

708
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: host is correct. The United Kingdom has the highest rate

709
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: of CCTV cameras or surveillance cameras in comparison to the

710
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: size of population in the world. Oh yeah, Now are

711
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: they all linked? The official answers no. The official answers

712
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:23,879
Speaker 1: to no. So this is fascinating because quotes like this

713
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 1: persuade people who do believe that there's some sand to

714
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:33,280
Speaker 1: the idea of psychic investigation. It seems like a smoking

715
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: gun if you believe this. You know what about the

716
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 1: United States? Well, the United States is overall more friendly

717
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:44,799
Speaker 1: towards psychics in this regard. Way back in nineteen ninety three,

718
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:48,759
Speaker 1: there was a survey of police departments from fifty of

719
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: the largest cities in the US, and they found that

720
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: the third of these departments had accepted information and predictions

721
00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 1: from psychic detectives in the past. All of those police departments,

722
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 1: only seven treated this information from psychics differently than they

723
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: would a normal source. So that means only seven. Most likely,

724
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: that means only seven said Hey, this person's real crockpot

725
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 1: on high. Let's just leave them the simmer, you know,

726
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:23,760
Speaker 1: and follow up some real leads.

727
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 3: I get what you're saying.

728
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 1: I feel like that was a convoluted way to get there.

729
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 3: No, I got it, though, I say.

730
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:30,400
Speaker 1: I don't want to say a crock I'm trying to

731
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,919
Speaker 1: make I'm trying to work crack pi. Yeah, you got it, man,

732
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 1: I don't know crackpot, crockpot, You're you're far too kind.

733
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: It also turns out that there's something counterintuitive at play here,

734
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:47,319
Speaker 1: or at least we thought it was counterintuitive. Precincts in

735
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 1: larger cities are more likely to work with a psychic

736
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 1: than precincts in smaller cities.

737
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 3: I'll tell you why. Why is that because they have

738
00:45:56,200 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 3: bigger media in those large cities, the more reasons for

739
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 3: the person to get on television or be in a

740
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:08,359
Speaker 3: major news article if you're in a big city, do it.

741
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 1: So you don't think it's a motivation of the police

742
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 1: or law enforcement. You think it's a motivation of the

743
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 1: person attempting to use psychic powers to investigate.

744
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 3: I mean, that is my opinion with capital O. But yeah,

745
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:20,439
Speaker 3: that's what I think.

746
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 1: I never thought about that. That is a fascinating point. Still,

747
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: no police department reported in this study any instances of

748
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 1: a psychic investigator providing information that was more helpful than

749
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 1: other information or other leads they received during the course

750
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,840
Speaker 1: of investigating a case. Since any information would have to

751
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: be proven correct, they could only use this stuff that

752
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 1: matched to other evidence as they were building a case. However,

753
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 1: we did find some interesting, tantalizing hints of instances of

754
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 1: unofficial cooperation.

755
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean, despite this whole almost universal dismiss

756
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 3: soul of all this psychic stuff and psychic based investigation,

757
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 3: there really is evidence that police have at least responded

758
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 3: to and in many cases analyze the claims of psychics.

759
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 3: So taking in all sources, you got to treat it

760
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 3: as though there might be something there, right, and organizations

761
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 3: such as the FBI have even taken this information into

762
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 3: some sort of account like thinking about it in some way,

763
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,439
Speaker 3: even if they're not treating it as if it's full

764
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 3: on evidence.

765
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah. In a book called mind Hunter, inside the

766
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:36,479
Speaker 1: FBI's elite Serial crime Unit, authors John Douglas and Mark

767
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 1: Olshaker note that a former senior investigator for the FBI

768
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:45,240
Speaker 1: said psychics may be used as quote, a last resort

769
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 1: as an investigative tool, with caution for providing clues not

770
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:53,240
Speaker 1: directly admissible in the court of laws, such as comments

771
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 1: on the criminal's character or the location of debt bodies.

772
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 3: That's intense.

773
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:03,360
Speaker 1: That's incredible, right, because that is someone in the FBI saying, well,

774
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 1: it's not our favorite thing, but occasionally maybe yeah, you know,

775
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 1: it's not an alien occurrence to them. They didn't immediately

776
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 1: say that's some TV mini series brew Haha.

777
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 3: Well, and that's John Douglass, one of the guys that

778
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 3: created the whole behavior analysts thing, like the sciences behind that.

779
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 3: He's one of the guys that did that. And just

780
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 3: to have someone that he's quoting in his book stating

781
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 3: something like that, that's a ooh right.

782
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: And then again we see that many psychics and people

783
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 1: who support these practices believe that police departments are successfully

784
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:51,840
Speaker 1: using these folks or successfully cooperating with these self reclaimed psychics,

785
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 1: but that the departments are keeping the knowledge hidden from

786
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 1: the public in order to preserve their own credibility. So

787
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 1: they might secretly go to some some hermit, you know,

788
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 1: and a fourth floor walk up in an apartment that

789
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 1: doesn't want anyone to know that they are capable of

790
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 1: finding names just by closing their eyes and holding an

791
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:21,959
Speaker 1: object that the killer of the victim had. That would

792
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:25,280
Speaker 1: be psychometry. It's a really cool power if it exists.

793
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 2: Huh.

794
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 3: Well, at least we now know what John Edward is

795
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:31,800
Speaker 3: doing now that he's I guess retired. He might not

796
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 3: be retired. Famous TV psychic.

797
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 1: Right, who claims to help people commune with their loved

798
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 1: ones who have passed beyond the mortal veil. You had

799
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 1: a TV show about it, he did. He was a

800
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:49,959
Speaker 1: cold reader, right that. That would be my personal take,

801
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:54,839
Speaker 1: to be honest with you. But but that's maybe a

802
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 1: story for another day. Today, we have some conclusions we

803
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 1: can make about this practice, which appears on surface to

804
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 1: be very American, more so than perhaps you and I

805
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: had assumed going in. What are our positive conclusions here, Matt.

806
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:15,399
Speaker 3: Well, the biggest one I think we found is that

807
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 3: in this type of investigation, when there's a missing person's

808
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 3: case and there is a loved one, somebody has a

809
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 3: loved one who has gone missing, the most tangible benefit

810
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 3: of psychic involvement is hope. Because if you can imagine,

811
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 3: take yourself to a place where you're a family member

812
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,759
Speaker 3: or a friend of yours has gone missing and the

813
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 3: police just can't make any progress because there's no evidence

814
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:43,319
Speaker 3: for them to go on, there are no witnesses who

815
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 3: saw it happen. You just have zo all of these

816
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 3: questions and zero answers. Someone comes along and gives you

817
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 3: hope and says, I think I can help you find

818
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:57,280
Speaker 3: this person. I think I know that they're here. That

819
00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 3: that moment of hope, I think is the positive thing

820
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:04,319
Speaker 3: I see. The problem is it slingshots a lot of

821
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 3: times to what the negative thing about psychics can be,

822
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:11,280
Speaker 3: and that is dashing those hopes against PROCs or whatever

823
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:15,879
Speaker 3: hard thing is nearby. How's that well, because the hope

824
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 3: that's generated, it's not necessarily false, it's just incorrect. A

825
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 3: lot of the times when I say false. I mean

826
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 3: it's not someone lying, it's just not the correct information

827
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 3: or you can't prove it. Yeah, exactly. And there is

828
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:36,359
Speaker 3: no evidence to show that any kind of psychic powers work.

829
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 3: There's no current evidence to show that it works.

830
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 1: There are some interesting experiments that have been conducted.

831
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:47,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are. They're experimentations that cannot be replicated though,

832
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 3: or they have yet to be replicated.

833
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 1: And of course, fans of James Randy Will, we'll be

834
00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:59,520
Speaker 1: champion at the bit to point out that nobody has

835
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 1: won the one million dollar prize for proving any paranormal

836
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 1: activity or any psychic abilities. However, on a softer note,

837
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 1: it is again inarguable that you and I and everyone

838
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 1: we know and everyone we've ever met has experienced something inexplicable.

839
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 1: You can call it a strange, one in a million coincidence.

840
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 1: You can call it a slight glimpse at some part

841
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 1: of the universe or the human mind that we don't understand.

842
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:38,959
Speaker 1: But whether skeptical or whether you know true believers, whether

843
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 1: you think it's all a cynical play for money, or

844
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:44,279
Speaker 1: whether you think that not only our psychic power is real,

845
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:47,600
Speaker 1: but that you have experienced an event like this. The

846
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:51,800
Speaker 1: truth of the matter is that everyone has or will

847
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 1: experience something that they feel is inexplicable, and in many

848
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:03,840
Speaker 1: cases the best science we have can make some educated

849
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:07,879
Speaker 1: guesses or attempts to explain things, but not all of it.

850
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 1: Still not all of it. That doesn't mean that these

851
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 1: things are real. I hate to have to pump the

852
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 1: brakes on that one, but it does mean there's a

853
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 1: ton of stuff that we do not understand.

854
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 3: Yes, there's still much for us as humans, you and

855
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:26,960
Speaker 3: Ben and Paul and I to discover about what we are,

856
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 3: how we function, what our connection to one another is.

857
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:32,319
Speaker 3: I think that's one of the biggest things. If n Noel,

858
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and Noel, because you know, I could definitely

859
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:38,839
Speaker 3: feel him in here right now. Yeah, he was like

860
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 3: scratching on the mic earlier. I don't know if you

861
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 3: could hear that, but he is scratching on the mic.

862
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 1: I predict he will agree largely. I think we're all

863
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 1: on the at least us in the room. We're on

864
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 1: the same page in this regard. So a conclusion from

865
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 1: the skeptic side would say that in most cases these

866
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:58,440
Speaker 1: psychics are either flat out wrong or they're getting information

867
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:02,400
Speaker 1: that was available through money day means they've either soaked

868
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,880
Speaker 1: it up subconsciously, or it's a coincidence, or in the

869
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 1: worst case scenarios, they're purposely being misleading. They might be

870
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 1: using methods like the one you mentioned, Matt cold reading,

871
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:19,240
Speaker 1: which is when you verbally and nonverbally fish for confirmation

872
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 1: to things that you are saying. You know tells that

873
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 1: people are displaying that they are not aware of, and

874
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 1: then you use those to make them believe that you

875
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 1: again you have access to knowledge.

876
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, you shape whatever you're saying to how they're responding.

877
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 1: Right, Darren Brown is a master of something like that.

878
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:41,680
Speaker 1: And then they'll also point out that the claims of

879
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:45,719
Speaker 1: psychics appear to be vague and they're often reinterpreted to

880
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 1: retroactively fit the facts of a matter. So that would

881
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 1: be a situation similar to what we did in the

882
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 1: beginning of the show. There's someone near water, or it's

883
00:54:56,120 --> 00:55:00,160
Speaker 1: not water, or sometime before or after it is, it's

884
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 1: been Tuesday.

885
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 3: I can see a number seven right.

886
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:06,680
Speaker 1: Sometimes the way that horoscopes have been written in the past,

887
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:10,279
Speaker 1: where it's like you are a unique person. Sometimes you

888
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:12,880
Speaker 1: want to do things and you do them. Other times

889
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 1: you want to do them and you don't.

890
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 3: There will be a hardship, but you will get past

891
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 3: it with the help of something.

892
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 1: You're a person who enjoys some music, you know what

893
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:29,960
Speaker 1: I mean. I'm not dinging anybody's spiritual belief system when

894
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 1: I'm specifically talking about when I'm knocking horoscopes, I'm knocking

895
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:41,280
Speaker 1: those weekly half a paragraph things. I'm knocking them because

896
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 1: when I used to write them, I sure as heck

897
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:45,919
Speaker 1: was just pulling rabbits out of a hat.

898
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:52,279
Speaker 3: What yeah, hold on, yep, hold on, yep. Can you

899
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 3: say who you wrote it for or what you wrote

900
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 3: it for?

901
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 1: I wrote it for a student newspaper. That's awesome, it's great.

902
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:01,719
Speaker 1: I wanted to write features for the paper, but they

903
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,359
Speaker 1: told me. They asked me, do you believe in what

904
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:06,720
Speaker 1: do you think about horoscopes? And I said I don't really,

905
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:08,799
Speaker 1: I don't buy into it. And they said, cool, Well

906
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:10,759
Speaker 1: you were hired and I said, great for what? And

907
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:14,360
Speaker 1: they said the horoscope column. Got a slow clap on

908
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 1: that one.

909
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 3: Oh man, you like you talked up Leo a lot. Right?

910
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 1: No? No, no, no, no, no, I didn't. I wouldn't

911
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 1: think it was fair. No, Actually, I tried to make

912
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:29,360
Speaker 1: it somewhat inspirational or useful for people.

913
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 3: Was there ever a negative like a specific month or

914
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:36,120
Speaker 3: a sign that had to be negative for like, did

915
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:38,280
Speaker 3: you cycle through that because it can't all be negative?

916
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 1: Right?

917
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 3: No?

918
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,320
Speaker 1: And I was pretty open I wouldn't have done it

919
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:43,440
Speaker 1: if I was deceiving people. I was pretty open in

920
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 1: the column about how I didn't believe in horse. They

921
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:50,160
Speaker 1: were kind of on the level of a really poorly

922
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 1: written version of what you would read in the Onion

923
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 1: or Mad magazine or something. So last question, I was

924
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:59,399
Speaker 1: not purposely deceiving people and to thinking I had some

925
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 1: sort of gotcha knowledge of the passage of the heavens.

926
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 3: Last question, did you have a byline? And are they available.

927
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 1: Somewhere if you know? I don't know. I don't know.

928
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 3: I'm gonna make T shirts with Ben Bolan's horoscomps.

929
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 1: Be careful, Matt. Every so often off air, I threaten.

930
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 1: I threatened Matt with the idea of getting us all

931
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 1: T shirts with his face on them.

932
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:30,560
Speaker 3: Oh, okay, that's your birthday and we'll.

933
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 1: Wear them around. So why don't you just you and

934
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 1: I just be in a T shirt armistice? Okay, T

935
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 1: shirts he accepted, so so that aside people on the

936
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 1: other side will will say that there is something to

937
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:49,880
Speaker 1: this and that it's being repressed, and that's the reason

938
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:55,320
Speaker 1: why it's so difficult to find provable instances of psychic

939
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 1: detectives solving crimes. That's why they would argue it's all

940
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:04,600
Speaker 1: so impossible to find a single person who has been repeatedly,

941
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 1: consistently doing these things.

942
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, and at.

943
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 1: This point we want to hear what you think. Do

944
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 1: you know of a case where a psychic persss inexplicably

945
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 1: or inarguably solved a crime or missing person's case, because

946
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 1: we've found things that sound tantalizing, but we haven't found

947
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 1: a home run. We haven't found anything that conclusively proves

948
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:35,200
Speaker 1: these people are out there.

949
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 3: Yeah. The biggest, the most successful version of this would

950
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 3: be finding a culprit I think like actually going and

951
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 3: pointing at someone saying that person did it right.

952
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:49,360
Speaker 1: And in serial killer cases, there are people who are

953
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 1: not only attempting to recover a body, but attempting to

954
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 1: find an active killer. And we also want to know

955
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 1: if you think this is all a con job or

956
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:03,200
Speaker 1: you know, do you think these people are exploiting the

957
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 1: hopes of folks who've already undergone a tremendously traumatic event.

958
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 1: And do you think this practice will continue?

959
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, we want to hear what you think about this

960
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:19,160
Speaker 3: because it You know, we've got our opinions, we let

961
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:20,960
Speaker 3: some of them out today, but we want to hear yours.

962
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:23,080
Speaker 3: You can find us on Facebook. You can find us

963
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 3: on Twitter where we're conspiracy stuff, on Instagram where conspiracy

964
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 3: Stuff show. If you want to call us, you can

965
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 3: call our number. It is one eight three three std WYTK.

966
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 3: That's stuff they don't want you to know. In acronym form.

967
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, twenty four to seven, six hundred and sixty six

968
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 1: days out of the year. You can call us directly

969
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:51,200
Speaker 1: and leave a message. Let us know your take on this,

970
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:54,920
Speaker 1: let us know your suggestions for future topics, let us

971
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 1: know the strange secrets that you believe your fellow listeners

972
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:03,160
Speaker 1: either want to hear or need to hear. And you know,

973
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:05,600
Speaker 1: I don't know about you, Matt, but I'd be open

974
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:08,760
Speaker 1: to talking to an actual to a psychic detective.

975
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 3: Oh absolutely, I.

976
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:12,160
Speaker 1: Would want to see. I would want to see their

977
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:17,760
Speaker 1: take because I read some stuff accounts from several other

978
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:21,360
Speaker 1: people claiming to be psychic detectives working currently, and one

979
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:24,440
Speaker 1: guy was very candid. He said, he said that he

980
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:30,960
Speaker 1: had a success rate about eighteen to twenty percent, and

981
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:33,080
Speaker 1: he I mean, he said, I have eighteen to twenty

982
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 1: percent success rate and I'm being honest. Wow, And that

983
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 1: was intriguing. So stay tuned and perhaps we will have

984
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:47,840
Speaker 1: a psychic detective in the future to tell us about

985
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 1: their experiences. In the meantime, as Matt said, we would

986
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 1: love to hear from you. We would also love to

987
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:58,680
Speaker 1: hear your first hand experiences with things that, even if

988
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:01,760
Speaker 1: you don't believe in psych powers, things you find really

989
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:02,480
Speaker 1: difficult to.

990
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:05,640
Speaker 3: Explain any story about that.

991
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 1: Yes, so let us know. You can also jump on

992
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:12,320
Speaker 1: our community page Here's where it gets crazy on Facebook

993
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:15,880
Speaker 1: to chat with Matt Noel, myself, and your fellow listeners.

994
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:18,920
Speaker 1: Most importantly, that's where you can see us pop up

995
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:21,480
Speaker 1: in some threads. It's where we also look for a

996
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 1: lot of topic suggestions for future episodes.

997
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:27,160
Speaker 3: In the meantime, I'm gonna work on getting Long Island

998
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:33,960
Speaker 3: Medium on the show. Come on, man, Teresa Caputo.

999
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:40,240
Speaker 1: Oh man, all right, will Matt succeed in? Uh man?

1000
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:44,040
Speaker 3: Do you know Teresa Caputo get her on the show.

1001
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 3: Never call one A three three s T d W

1002
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:50,280
Speaker 3: I t K. Leave her, leave a message, hopefully a

1003
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 3: cell phone number. We'll get back to her. She she

1004
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:56,320
Speaker 3: already knows that we're doing this and this. Oh god,

1005
01:01:56,640 --> 01:01:57,840
Speaker 3: just just cut all this.

1006
01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:01,000
Speaker 1: No, is this revel All right?

1007
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 3: There's a Cabuos coming on the show.

1008
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:10,480
Speaker 1: All right, man, this guy please just keep it. Matt

1009
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:13,640
Speaker 1: Is is this Are you and old taking revenge on

1010
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:18,560
Speaker 1: me for the pizzagate comments previous episode?

1011
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:20,600
Speaker 3: That's exactly what this is.

1012
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 1: Well, we're square now, will we remain so? Will we

1013
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:28,080
Speaker 1: still remain close as to coworker's best of friends? Or

1014
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 1: is this the end? It's hopefully not a real cliffhanger,

1015
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 1: regardless of weather.

1016
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 3: And that's the end of this classic episode. If you

1017
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:43,480
Speaker 3: have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you can

1018
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 3: get into contact with us in a number of different ways.

1019
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 3: One of the best is to give us a call.

1020
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:51,160
Speaker 3: Our number is one eight three three st d W

1021
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:53,520
Speaker 3: Y t K. If you don't want to do that,

1022
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:55,800
Speaker 3: you can send us a good old fashioned email.

1023
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1024
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 3: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

1025
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:07,040
Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1026
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:10,000
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.