Speaker 1: You're listening to The Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure
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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, Welcome to this episode of The Buck Sexton Show.
Speaker 2: Very pleased, very fortunate to be joined by our friend
Speaker 2: Michael Berry, the czar of Talk syndicated radio host Houstonian,
Speaker 2: Texan American. Mister Michael Berry. Honored to have you on, sir,
Speaker 2: Honored to.
Speaker 1: Be with the zo you friend, Glad to be with you.
Speaker 2: How's America doing right now? Let's start with that. Let's
Speaker 2: just have Mike. I want Michael Berry and tell me
Speaker 2: what is going on these days in America.
Speaker 1: America is in a good spot when Buck Sexton can
Speaker 1: fight Mark Zuckerberg and win and the whole nation has
Speaker 1: to watch it. I'm very concerned. I didn't get to
Speaker 1: hear it, but it has been reported to be by
Speaker 1: listeners that Clay says that you can't beat Mark Zuckerberg.
Speaker 1: I mean, I gonna tell you it's seat weigh in.
Speaker 2: This is this is a filthy this is a filthy lie. Okay.
Speaker 2: I I am stronger than I look, faster than I seem,
Speaker 2: and more trained than people would realize Zuckerberg would.
Speaker 1: Have you shot hair. You got a lot of hair,
Speaker 1: a lot. Don't underestimate the helmet right.
Speaker 2: Well, it protects. I mean, this is the thing people understand.
Speaker 2: Like someone comes at me, I dropped the head down.
Speaker 2: I could take shots right to the cranium. I won't
Speaker 2: even feel them. I'll be like Bbie's bumping off of
Speaker 2: a freight trade, not going to do anything.
Speaker 1: And here's what most people don't know. Because I know
Speaker 1: your dad and we tend to get our fighting spirit
Speaker 1: from our dad. I'm pretty sure that Mason is a
Speaker 1: fighter and a scrapper, just based on what I know
Speaker 1: of him. We tend to inherit that right. Our dad's
Speaker 1: raise us. So I'm going with you. I don't think Zuckerberg, you.
Speaker 2: Have to fight, and I appreciate. I appreciate that. You know,
Speaker 2: first of all, Zuckerberg, he's about five eight, so I
Speaker 2: got about four inches on him. And and that's.
Speaker 1: Kind of a lizard man. You know that woman on
Speaker 1: the plane that got off the plane and she said
Speaker 1: he's not real. There's one version where he's kind of
Speaker 1: scripted into there. That guy's not real. There's something wrong there.
Speaker 1: It's worse than just his actions and his evil deeds.
Speaker 1: I think he's a lizard man or something.
Speaker 2: That woman has become a super mean as I'm sure
Speaker 2: you've seen online.
Speaker 1: She's kind of sexy. You gotta miss she's kind of sexy.
Speaker 1: Date crazy women, I always think, man, you know, the
Speaker 1: freaking the sheets kind of Yeah, but you got to
Speaker 1: deal with that, like that's gonna make somebody an awful
Speaker 1: ex wife. I've been with my wife for thirty four years,
Speaker 1: and I can't imagine having somebody like that in your life.
Speaker 1: And then when you cut it off, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of crazy going on there. I'd like to learn more
Speaker 1: of them. I'd like to know more to that crazy.
Speaker 1: There's something there.
Speaker 2: We didn't ever find out, meaning the general public did
Speaker 2: never find out who she was, right for, anyone hasn't
Speaker 2: seen this is the woman who points and she's screaming
Speaker 2: about how someone's not on the plane. And it went very,
Speaker 2: very viral, and it's a remarkable moment.
Speaker 1: And it's a remarkable moment you asked a serious question,
Speaker 1: where are we in America? It's a remarkable moment where
Speaker 1: there's a lack of honesty, there's a lack of discussion.
Speaker 1: There's a lack of comfort and trust in the public conversation. Buck,
Speaker 1: I'm sure you get an email a lot that I get,
Speaker 1: which is thank you for doing what you're doing, because
Speaker 1: you say what I can't, and I got to tell
Speaker 1: you I grew up. Maybe he's overly idealistic. I know
Speaker 1: a lot about you, and I know you're an idealistic
Speaker 1: believer in America's promise and our principle and the idea
Speaker 1: that most Americans, particularly conservative Americans, middle Americans, feel like
Speaker 1: if they were to state their honest opinions, they would
Speaker 1: lose their job, They would be socially ostracized, They may
Speaker 1: be arrested, they would be humiliated, heckled, boycotted. This is
Speaker 1: not the America I dream of. This is not the
Speaker 1: America I believed in. And that bothers me more than
Speaker 1: a Joe Biden cover up, more than a Hunter Biden.
Speaker 1: Those are all symptoms of a bigger problem, in my.
Speaker 2: Opinion, Michael, is America still a free country?
Speaker 1: Well, you know that's a fair question. No. I think
Speaker 1: if you were to come up with a freedom index,
Speaker 1: the answer would be no. And I'm not a person
Speaker 1: who likes to bash my country. You know, my wife
Speaker 1: being from India originally coming here in nineteen eighty nine,
Speaker 1: she loves this country. But she always laughs that if
Speaker 1: Americans create a sport and we have a competition and
Speaker 1: it's only between Texas and Florida, we declare the winner
Speaker 1: the world champion. So you know, I'm a person that
Speaker 1: believes America is the best in everything. It does not
Speaker 1: delight me to say we're not a free nation. It
Speaker 1: pains me, but I see a level of tyrannical authoritarianism
Speaker 1: in his country, not just related to COVID, But perhaps
Speaker 1: that was the best example. You've asked a tough question,
Speaker 1: and I think answer requires some tough answers, and that
Speaker 1: troubles me. That bothers me.
Speaker 2: Oh, I think that if you look just back at
Speaker 2: what a lot of places had to suffer through during
Speaker 2: during COVID, we were clearly there was a period of
Speaker 2: time in which the answer to the question is America
Speaker 2: a free country was obviously no right. If they can
Speaker 2: tell you you can't open your bar, you can't go
Speaker 2: into your place of business, you can't go to your church.
Speaker 2: So we did, for a period of time cease to
Speaker 2: be a free country in any meaningful sense.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: There are a lot of places around the world your
Speaker 2: point about freedom index, where if even a fraction of
Speaker 2: what was done during COVID was being done, you have
Speaker 2: to stay in your home, you have to limit the
Speaker 2: number of people you have over We'd say that's an autocracy,
Speaker 2: that's authoritarianism. There's something deeply wrong. But I also am
Speaker 2: a little bit disappointed, not only about how many people
Speaker 2: went along with it, but now that we know how
Speaker 2: wrong it was, how few people seem to carry me. Michael,
Speaker 2: I feel like more and more people want to be controlled.
Speaker 2: Not all of us, but a lot of us.
Speaker 1: Yes, there is a security to handing over the parental
Speaker 1: authority of your life to someone else, to crawling into
Speaker 1: a fetal position and an all carrying, benevolent, supposedly benevolent
Speaker 1: government making decisions for you, to trusting them to decide
Speaker 1: what I put into my body, what time I go
Speaker 1: to bed. And as you know, many people are escapists
Speaker 1: and they don't the weight of the world of making
Speaker 1: these tough decisions is simply too much for them, and
Speaker 1: that's unfortunate. But any government to which you hand over
Speaker 1: the power to make decisions to do supposedly good things
Speaker 1: to you can do bad things to you, and as
Speaker 1: a student of history, you as much or more than
Speaker 1: anyone else, understand the dangers of that. And that's what's
Speaker 1: scary is when people don't understand why we need this
Speaker 1: level of independent thought and action, because it's not all
Speaker 1: comfort and blankets from the government.
Speaker 2: What do you make of all the back and forth
Speaker 2: over recently it's been politicization of the FBI. I mean,
Speaker 2: I think we could take for granted here, we can
Speaker 2: take for a settled part of this. Yeah, the FBI
Speaker 2: is politicized. There's been very bad stuff that's happened, that's clear.
Speaker 2: But I do feel like a little bit on the
Speaker 2: right we've become addicted to, well, we're going to have
Speaker 2: some good Republican congressmen. They're going to have a hearing
Speaker 2: and they're going to pound the table and they're going
Speaker 2: to ask some questions, and we're going to talk about
Speaker 2: it on our shows, and it's going to be on
Speaker 2: cable news at night, and then what do you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, I do think there's a little bit
Speaker 2: of a what is this all supposed to accomplish?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's frustrating because you know, you and I
Speaker 1: are supposed to just be Look, let's let's lay the
Speaker 1: cards on the table. Talk right. I was doing better
Speaker 1: than it's ever done. It's making more money than it's
Speaker 1: ever made. Conservative media, our careers are booming. That does
Speaker 1: not delight me, you know, it does not make me.
Speaker 1: I'm not pfeiser. I don't want a nation, you know,
Speaker 1: under the throes of an epidemic. I want what's good
Speaker 1: for my country. I still believe those naive ideas that
Speaker 1: I believed in. You still believe those naive ideas that
Speaker 1: led you to want to serve the country and the CIA.
Speaker 1: I still believe. You know, my brother was a was
Speaker 1: a just over thirty year police officer. So I've always
Speaker 1: believed in the law enforcement officer and the mantra and
Speaker 1: the creed and the motto and the service and the
Speaker 1: selflessness and the sheep dog. And I always, you know,
Speaker 1: I loved the stories of the FBI catching the bad guys.
Speaker 1: And I see what's happening with this incredibly, and the
Speaker 1: FBI is more powerful it's ever been before. It's not
Speaker 1: just a guy with shoe leather and a gun and
Speaker 1: a badge who can go out and arrest somebody. It's
Speaker 1: a guy now and you know what your CIA background.
Speaker 1: It's guys with technology. It's guys with the ability to
Speaker 1: shut down your life, to do things that we've never
Speaker 1: had the capability to do before. It's all powerful, and
Speaker 1: I truly do believe that. At the top ranks, I
Speaker 1: think they're still good, good FBI agents. But at the
Speaker 1: top ranks, it's people that have crossed over to the
Speaker 1: dark side, and I'm not sure they have a limitation
Speaker 1: on what they're willing to do, and it scares me.
Speaker 2: I want to come back here in a second and
Speaker 2: ask Michael to answer the question, what are you seeing
Speaker 2: right now in the Republican primary that is most noteworthy
Speaker 2: to you. But we'll get to that in a second. Michael,
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Speaker 2: dot org. Okay, so we are early here in the
Speaker 2: primary process. Now it's not really a Democrat primary that
Speaker 2: I'll probably ask you about that too, an RFK junior
Speaker 2: here in a second, Michael, but what are you seeing
Speaker 2: on the Republican side? What's surprising you, what's important to you?
Speaker 2: What do you think would need to change U?
Speaker 1: So I think what is surprising is in full disclosure,
Speaker 1: I have not endorsed a candidate, and I don't intend
Speaker 1: to anytime soon, so that I can be free to
Speaker 1: comment on the candidates. What has surprised me a couple
Speaker 1: of things. So when Trump was first indicted in New York,
Speaker 1: he has seen a meteoric, stratospheric rise in his popularity
Speaker 1: among Republican primary voters. And you know, I would have
Speaker 1: guessed you never know. I mean, it's easy to say
Speaker 1: that what's happened. Everyone says that that's what they believed,
Speaker 1: but then you go back and look and say, well,
Speaker 1: that's not what you said. So one thing I would
Speaker 1: say is Trump's popularity has increased so dramatically since that
Speaker 1: first indictment, and it's continued since then. I don't think
Speaker 1: Trump himself changed, It is just that the voter really
Speaker 1: really fell back in love with Trump. I think that's
Speaker 1: been an interesting phenomenon. Second was I think DeSantis had
Speaker 1: an opportunity and a lot of hope. I had not
Speaker 1: watched DeSantis that closely, but I don't think he has
Speaker 1: lived up to that promise so far. Now, I've been
Speaker 1: around this process a very long time, and I know
Speaker 1: you have as an officeholder, as a candidate running campaigns
Speaker 1: and commenting on campaigns for a very long time. And
Speaker 1: we're a long way away from January just yet, and
Speaker 1: we're going to have some ups and downs and swings
Speaker 1: and all that. And DeSantis still has an opportunity to
Speaker 1: win at all. But I see a lot of missteps
Speaker 1: on his part.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's get into that. What if you were advising
Speaker 2: him and you haven't endorsed. I haven't endorsed, and I
Speaker 2: have a rule that I won't endorse during a primary.
Speaker 2: But the same basic idea you have, mikel which is
Speaker 2: I want to be able to talk about what Trump
Speaker 2: is doing right, what I think Trump should should do differently,
Speaker 2: what Vivek is doing right, you know, et cetera, all
Speaker 2: the way down. DeSantis hasn't connected the way that at
Speaker 2: this point, as reflected the polls people thought he would.
Speaker 3: Why I think DeSantis is Trump is in DeSantis's head,
Speaker 3: and I think he's too focused on Trump, and that
Speaker 3: is where Trump is so good.
Speaker 1: Trump is you know, great basketball players, when when the
Speaker 1: ref isn't watching the pull at your jersey right, they'll, they'll, they'll.
Speaker 1: Larry Bird was a smack talker. People don't realize to
Speaker 1: what extent they play head games, and Trump is a
Speaker 1: master of that. I mean, it's it's hard to estimate
Speaker 1: for the average person how this guy taunts you and
Speaker 1: how he does the things he does, the nicknames and
Speaker 1: those sorts of things, and it gets into guy's head.
Speaker 1: And I honestly think that DeSantis's problem is he's never
Speaker 1: introduced himself as Ron DeSantis. He's introduced himself in a
Speaker 1: way that he's almost responding to Trump and and and
Speaker 1: part of the problem is the media and and people
Speaker 1: only want to talk about Trump because love him or
Speaker 1: hate him. There's a lot of drama there. And I
Speaker 1: think that that makes it hard for the same and
Speaker 1: he's having trouble finding his lane, and he's going to
Speaker 1: have to find that if he's ever going to get
Speaker 1: any traction, And thus far, I don't think he's done that.
Speaker 2: What do you think about Glenn Youngkin in the mix
Speaker 2: here in some capacity? Do you think he might get
Speaker 2: in the governor Virginia or you think he's gonna wait
Speaker 2: it out? What do you see?
Speaker 1: I just don't see it making a bit of difference.
Speaker 1: You know, we all rooted for Glenn Younkin because he
Speaker 1: wasn't Terry mccaulliffe. I don't see him as as presidential
Speaker 1: timber in twenty eight or anytime else. I just don't
Speaker 1: see him as a guy with the gravitas. And you know,
Speaker 1: you got to have an organization, right, You've got to
Speaker 1: be able to raise money, you got to be able
Speaker 1: to travel, you have to be able to have surrogates.
Speaker 1: I was big for Ted Cruz in twenty sixteen. I
Speaker 1: introduced him in Iowa the night before the big win.
Speaker 1: People forget Cruise won Iowa. I hated Trump, I despised Trump.
Speaker 1: I grew to appreciate him as president, and I grew
Speaker 1: to appreciate his skill set. But at that point I
Speaker 1: didn't believe he was serious. I thought he was a fraud.
Speaker 1: I thought he might be a trojan horse for the left.
Speaker 1: I was very concerned with that. But I grew to
Speaker 1: appreciate a guy that didn't raise money, didn't have the
Speaker 1: surrogate team, but his mastery of mass media is unparalleled.
Speaker 1: And then there's no number two. The guy didn't need
Speaker 1: to spend money, he got mass media. I just see
Speaker 1: Younkin as a guy kind of like Asa Hutchison or
Speaker 1: Chris Christy or whatever. Else. It's not that people like
Speaker 1: him or they just don't care. Interesting.
Speaker 2: Interesting, he's somebody who feels like he's poked around a
Speaker 2: little bit in a viveg is doing better than a
Speaker 2: lot of people would have anticipated. At latest Paul I
Speaker 2: saw he was in third at eight percent. Eight percent's
Speaker 2: way behind Trump at fifty something and DeSantis at twenty something.
Speaker 2: But still there's there's a lot of time. As you noted,
Speaker 2: I want to ask you about the Democrat side.
Speaker 1: I will say this, I think that I think that
Speaker 1: I have to declared Vivek Ramaswamy as the winner of
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four already. You don't need to cast the votes.
Speaker 1: You don't need to count the votes. Vivek doesn't get
Speaker 1: more votes than anybody else necessarily, But Vivek has gone
Speaker 1: from a guy with a lot of money and a
Speaker 1: lot of great ideas and a lot of energy with
Speaker 1: nothing to lose, who is now being quoted and engaged.
Speaker 1: He is now having some level of influence all over
Speaker 1: the country. He's having a blast. When's the last time
Speaker 1: you saw Canada have fun. He's having a blast. People
Speaker 1: are listening to him. His ideas are being bantered, even
Speaker 1: if you disagree with them, he's coming off great. He
Speaker 1: probably ends up a cabinet official, and whoever wins Desantees
Speaker 1: or Trump, he probably ends up a cabinet official in
Speaker 1: their in their White House. Otherwise he gets a national
Speaker 1: TV show. I mean, that guy is having a blast,
Speaker 1: and he's already won. He's come so far. Unless there's
Speaker 1: a massive scandal, and I don't see it, that guy's
Speaker 1: the biggest winner of twenty twenty four already.
Speaker 2: He's done very well for himself, for sure. I want
Speaker 2: to ask you about the Democrats side, Michael in just
Speaker 2: a second, because there's been some really interesting movement and
Speaker 2: even more interesting theories about what's going to happen. We'll
Speaker 2: get to that in just a moment, but look, there'll
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Speaker 2: Do you own some gold?
Speaker 1: I do own some gold.
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Speaker 2: be the Democrat nominee? Let's start with that one.
Speaker 1: I never wanted to predict because you just end up wrong.
Speaker 1: If I were to say today, I still think if
Speaker 1: you're placing odds, I still think the odds are in
Speaker 1: his favor. Now, the problem with the Democrats is they
Speaker 1: don't have a stalking horse in waiting. They don't have
Speaker 1: a replacement in waiting. And I think there's a real
Speaker 1: challenge for the Susan Rices and the people who are
Speaker 1: running the country and using Joe Biden to do that.
Speaker 1: You've got to wound Biden to get him to step down.
Speaker 1: You've got to scare him that, look, Hunter's going to
Speaker 1: go to prison. You've got to step down so we
Speaker 1: can save Hunter. And that might be enough for him
Speaker 1: to do it, but you also don't want to wound
Speaker 1: him so badly that if he doesn't step down, because
Speaker 1: they still believe he's enough to allow him to allow
Speaker 1: them to beat Trump. So I think that the odds
Speaker 1: are still better for Joe Biden, if he's still alive,
Speaker 1: that he's the nominee than anyone else. I don't think
Speaker 1: RFK ever gets there. I think Newsom is probably the candidate.
Speaker 1: But look, we would have thought Diane Feinstein would be
Speaker 1: out of the Senate by now because Adam Schiff was
Speaker 1: shiving her in the back, but you know they hang around.
Speaker 1: Or who would have thought Fetterman would be the candidate.
Speaker 1: I think the machinations behind the scenes as to the
Speaker 1: utility of a guy like Biden are greater than the
Speaker 1: average person quite understands, particularly when there's no one in
Speaker 1: waiting that's the obvious choice. And I think in the
Speaker 1: polling shows, Kamala Harris is even more unpopular than Joe Biden,
Speaker 1: So you know that gets interesting. Look, Republicans have a
Speaker 1: real challenge with the Trump issue versus DeSantis. I think
Speaker 1: Democrats have a real challenge with the Biden issue and
Speaker 1: a lack of replacement. And the difference is the supposed
Speaker 1: republic problem. A lot of Republicans loved Trump, No Democrats
Speaker 1: love Biden.
Speaker 2: What do you think is the biggest if you had
Speaker 2: to focus in on one aspect of who we've seen
Speaker 2: Joe Biden to be at this point, what is it
Speaker 2: for you, like, what is the center of his core
Speaker 2: of his character?
Speaker 1: You know, this would probably surprise some people to say,
Speaker 1: but Joe Biden in the eighties was a man of
Speaker 1: some conviction, and he was a man who acted on
Speaker 1: those convictions. He was a relatively conservative Democrat who was
Speaker 1: law and order. And that was all about Joe Biden.
Speaker 1: It was law and order, and he was kind of
Speaker 1: a middle of the road guy. Somewhere along the way
Speaker 1: when he loses in eighty eight because of all his plagiarism,
Speaker 1: which comes out when he loses in two thousand and
Speaker 1: eight to what he called that clean, bright, articulate black guy,
Speaker 1: which was one of the worst insults he ever could
Speaker 1: have delivered. I think somewhere along the way, Joe Biden
Speaker 1: said the Democrat Party left me behind. I'm a white
Speaker 1: male and for me to talk my way into getting
Speaker 1: to be their nominee and now staying as their president.
Speaker 1: Whatever idea they give me. Oh, you want trans people
Speaker 1: at the White House showing their nipples, great, I've always
Speaker 1: been for that. No you haven't. You want criminals to
Speaker 1: not be prosecuted. I've always been for that. No you haven't.
Speaker 1: You want I mean, it doesn't matter what they put
Speaker 1: in front of him. He's anchorman and he'll read f you,
Speaker 1: san Diego. He'll do what you tell him to do
Speaker 1: if he just gets to stay there. He always wanted
Speaker 1: to be president and he's getting to be president, and
Speaker 1: you can't forget that.
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna give you a moment to think about
Speaker 2: this one before we go into our last sponsor, Mike,
Speaker 2: and it is what is the idea that you feel
Speaker 2: very strongly about these days that you get the most
Speaker 2: heat for however you wanna. It can be anything cultural, social,
Speaker 2: This movie is great, or that thing is, whatever it is.
Speaker 2: I want to come back. I want to know what
Speaker 2: gets the tzar of talk some heat these days. And
Speaker 2: you're digging in on it, and you're saying I'm all in,
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Speaker 2: what gets you the heat? Michael Well?
Speaker 1: I got a heat yesterday because a listener pointed out
Speaker 1: that I think that skid Rows eighteen in Life is
Speaker 1: the best power ballad of all time, and everybody criticized,
Speaker 1: but nobody could offer an alternative. My favorite rock band
Speaker 1: of My favorite band of all time is Leonard Skinner,
Speaker 1: and I catch a bunch of crap from people for that.
Speaker 1: My second favorite band of all time is the band
Speaker 1: and that's because people have never really studied their stuff.
Speaker 1: Let's see, trying to think of a good political issue.
Speaker 1: But you know what's interesting, and I'm sure you've noticed this.
Speaker 1: This is not just and I told you so thing.
Speaker 1: There were views I had three years ago that even
Speaker 1: some friends were like, Michael, I love you, but you're
Speaker 1: a little out there on the whole COVID thing. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's really wow. And now they go, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't want your head to get too big, but you
Speaker 1: were right and so but you know, I disassociated and
Speaker 1: you know, doing what we do. Sometimes it's hard to
Speaker 1: socialize in a group because people listen to you all
Speaker 1: day and so they want to be bombastic and argue
Speaker 1: with you. And you've done that all day already. You just,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of want to have a beer and
Speaker 1: not be bothered.
Speaker 2: Well, I'll give you. I'll give you a political one
Speaker 2: that I that I stand behind, which is that people
Speaker 2: underestimate the ability of the Democrat Party if it decides
Speaker 2: to to elevate Kamala Harris and get a lot of
Speaker 2: people to vote for I'm not saying that means she
Speaker 2: would win against Trump, but if they could get her
Speaker 2: to take over, for let's say they were able to
Speaker 2: push Biden across the finish line, just theoretically, and then
Speaker 2: she takes over as president, the whole system will switch
Speaker 2: into how she's grown into the role and she's not
Speaker 2: as terrible as we thought. And because I always point
Speaker 2: I said, look at Biden was a joke. Biden was
Speaker 2: a like a four percent candidate in two thousand and eight,
Speaker 2: and look who ended up winning in twenty twenty, right,
Speaker 2: I mean, I just think that people are the psych
Speaker 2: of argument.
Speaker 1: Let me, let me offer an alternative, full disclosure. In
Speaker 1: early twenty sixteen, really late twenty fifteen, I handicapped that
Speaker 1: Kamala would be there at the finish line. She may
Speaker 1: not win, but it would be her and someone else.
Speaker 1: Her intersectionality score is the highest in history. She's a woman,
Speaker 1: She's not white, She's she claims black. She claims Indians,
Speaker 1: so you got the immigrants side. She claims law enforcement background,
Speaker 1: but she also claims liberal California values. I mean she's
Speaker 1: pretty much the anti Joe Biden. And then when she
Speaker 1: went after Biden and said I'm that little girl on
Speaker 1: the bus, that was a powerful moment. That was the
Speaker 1: I knew John Kennedy, I served with John Kennedy. You're
Speaker 1: no John Kennedy moment. She was out before Iowa. Something
Speaker 1: about her people really don't like. And you know, the
Speaker 1: polls show that people like Michelle Obama. I don't like
Speaker 1: that fact, but the polls show it. People have a
Speaker 1: visceral dislike of Kamala Harris and the Democrats have not
Speaker 1: been able to fix that. And I'm not sure what
Speaker 1: causes I love it that. I'm not sure what causes it.
Speaker 1: I'm not I do have one. Let me go back
Speaker 1: if you have a moment book to your earlier question,
Speaker 1: and that is something that has been brewing of late.
Speaker 1: You and I have a lot of friends, particularly Miami friends,
Speaker 1: who are on both sides of the Trump Desantish debate,
Speaker 1: and there seems to be this view in the DeSantis camp,
Speaker 1: and some people that I really like and admires, seem
Speaker 1: to have this and that is that we you and
Speaker 1: I need to stand up and tell voters that Trump
Speaker 1: can't win you and then when when when they don't listen,
Speaker 1: then you, idiot Trump voters, Trump can't win, you, idiot
Speaker 1: Trump voters. You're costing us. At some point, we can't
Speaker 1: preach that we believe the voter should be sacra sainct,
Speaker 1: and then in the second breath say, but you voters
Speaker 1: are so stupid because you're part of the Trump cult.
Speaker 1: If people want Donald Trump, whether Carl Rove thinks that's
Speaker 1: the most strategic endeavor or not, doesn't matter. We're supposed
Speaker 1: to respect the process of the everyday voter. And when
Speaker 1: we say I'm smarter than you because I have a
Speaker 1: national radio audience or TV audience or or newsletter or platform,
Speaker 1: I think we're sending the wrong message to voters. And
Speaker 1: it disturbs me that some people seem to have that
Speaker 1: opinion DeSantis is the right choice, even if the voters
Speaker 1: don't want That's not your best argument for Ron DeSantis.
Speaker 1: So that's been something I've kind of been arguing with
Speaker 1: folks over of late.
Speaker 2: No, I think that's I think that's fair, and I
Speaker 2: think that what you see with with the way that
Speaker 2: conversation is evolving is if Ron is going to win,
Speaker 2: he needs to be able to win over the base, right.
Speaker 2: I mean, the electability argument to me is the whole
Speaker 2: you know, the primary. Yeah, I understand you're not appealing
Speaker 2: to the center the same way, but if you can't
Speaker 2: win the primary, the general election is a whole level
Speaker 2: beyond in terms of the organization, the endurance, the things
Speaker 2: that are needed, the national messaging.
Speaker 1: So because otherwise you're going back and saying, all right,
Speaker 1: that was Jeb Bush who had all the money in
Speaker 1: the world and the Bush family and all the you know, intelligentsia,
Speaker 1: but the voters didn't want him. And then you go
Speaker 1: back to twenty twelve Mitt Romney, the guy who's supposed
Speaker 1: to be the most presidential guy ever. The base hates him,
Speaker 1: he loses. You go back to two thousand and eight
Speaker 1: John McCain, who hung around forever, but he's a senator,
Speaker 1: he's a serious man, he's a good man. He should
Speaker 1: be president. The base hated him. So I think at
Speaker 1: some point you've got these guys that the insiders tell
Speaker 1: you, you know, he can be the president. You've got to
Speaker 1: win the base. And I think that's been a struggle
Speaker 1: for DeSantis, and we partly underestimate he's been the governor
Speaker 1: of Florida. It's going to take him some time. He
Speaker 1: may well grow into it or he may not. But
Speaker 1: I will say this, having been a cruise guy in sixteen,
Speaker 1: the juggernaut that is Donald Trump is not to be underestimated.
Speaker 1: And I think people do so at their peril. They
Speaker 1: don't realize how beloved he is from your listeners, from
Speaker 1: my listeners, and from voters. I mean, it's a deep,
Speaker 1: deep bond.
Speaker 2: There are so many ways. First off, I mean you
Speaker 2: can look at you can look at twenty twenty and
Speaker 2: see that it was about let's say, less than thirty
Speaker 2: thousand votes that ended up being the difference in what
Speaker 2: three states that were the deciding factor there. So you're
Speaker 2: talking about being on the very tip of a razor's
Speaker 2: edge in that election. So I can understand the arguments
Speaker 2: that say, this time around, now that people have seen Biden,
Speaker 2: they understand that the fraud of the whole Biden promised
Speaker 2: that he was going to unite the country. And then
Speaker 2: there's even also I always point this out, Michael, because
Speaker 2: I say, no one can predict the future, which is
Speaker 2: I say it not just to remind the audience, really
Speaker 2: to remind myself. Nobody can predict the future. It is
Speaker 2: a fact. You have so many you could have a
Speaker 2: third party candidacy here, you could have Does Joe Biden
Speaker 2: even make it? You know, I'm just saying the guys,
Speaker 2: he's really old. Is he able to finish the campaign?
Speaker 2: There are things that could up end the whole race
Speaker 2: that could very easily mean that Donald Trump would win. So,
Speaker 2: you know, I don't think it's uh. I agree with
Speaker 2: you that that the electability argument is this becomes a tautology, right,
Speaker 2: It's like, you know who's electable the guy who gets elected.
Speaker 2: So you know, the electability argument is something people need
Speaker 2: to be aware of how that flows. I think that
Speaker 2: the argument that is you'll hear it from DeSantis, from
Speaker 2: people that support DeSantis, I should say, is we need
Speaker 2: to take a look back at what really happened while
Speaker 2: Trump was president and assessed that in a way that
Speaker 2: is different from what the prevailing narrative is within trumpworld.
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean? That's the for some
Speaker 2: of them, it's not even Kenny win, it's what's he
Speaker 2: going to do if he does win based on what
Speaker 2: he did the last time, And that in some ways
Speaker 2: I think gets even more contentious. You know, that becomes
Speaker 2: even more of a knockdown, throwdown kind of fight.
Speaker 1: It does, especially because so many of the Disantis folks
Speaker 1: were with Trump before and so now there is this
Speaker 1: sort of Trump is the devil where you were with him,
Speaker 1: and the other thing is you just can't Trump is
Speaker 1: a slugger. I mean, one thing you have to admire
Speaker 1: about Trump is, no matter how many times you knock
Speaker 1: him down, whatever you may think of him, the guy's
Speaker 1: a fighter. He's a brawler and he's going to be back.
Speaker 1: And I've never seen a candidate like this before. I've
Speaker 1: never in my life, even more so than Bill Clinton.
Speaker 1: The guy, no matter what happens, he gives a speech
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes later he goes, that's the speech you should
Speaker 1: have been given for, you know, seven years. And it's
Speaker 1: not un till he gets indicted that he delivers it
Speaker 1: in that manner. So I think we're living through fast
Speaker 1: for you and I, you know, getting the comment on
Speaker 1: this in real time, it's an embarrassment of riches. I
Speaker 1: worry about the country, but it's a really interesting time
Speaker 1: to do what we do.
Speaker 2: Do you think they want to lock Trump up? When
Speaker 2: I say, want to, would they be willing to?
Speaker 1: I do. I think they would be willing. But I
Speaker 1: also think it's one of those if you go for
Speaker 1: the king, you got to kill him. And I think
Speaker 1: the fear is if we lock him up for one
Speaker 1: minute and he gets out, it's Napoleon coming back, you know,
Speaker 1: from Elba. I think there is the understanding that you
Speaker 1: can't just send him into exile. If you go for him,
Speaker 1: you better take him out, because he'll come back stronger
Speaker 1: than ever. And I have maintained all along that Donald
Speaker 1: Trump is, more than anything else, the projection of our hopes, dreams, fears, angers, resentments, slights, optimism.
Speaker 1: We foist them upon him, and he is the canvas
Speaker 1: upon which we paint our own lives. And so every
Speaker 1: when we're angry with the FBI for what they do,
Speaker 1: and then they wrong him by the Marlago raid, then
Speaker 1: he becomes our outlet to punish them when we see
Speaker 1: things that are done wrong. The media does wrong. When
Speaker 1: Jake Tapper says, we're not going to show Donald Trump's
Speaker 1: statements because he lies, but you'll show Joe Biden's statements
Speaker 1: and he lies, You know, those sorts of things the
Speaker 1: only way we can express how anger is to support
Speaker 1: what Trump does, and in that way, he becomes an
Speaker 1: instrument of all of us, good or bad. He becomes
Speaker 1: an instrument by which we punish those people, and sometimes
Speaker 1: we feel like we don't get to punish them. And
Speaker 1: I think he understands that, and I think he bears
Speaker 1: that burden, and I think that's his greatest asset and
Speaker 1: maybe his greatest cross that he has to bear.
Speaker 2: Who do you think the likeliest Let's assume it is Trump,
Speaker 2: which right now the numbers certainly are indicating, although it
Speaker 2: is early. Who is his vice presidential pick in your mind?
Speaker 2: And why?
Speaker 1: Very interesting question? And I've spent a fair amount of time.
Speaker 1: There's some thought that that, you know, whether it's Brian
Speaker 1: Kemp to bring.
Speaker 2: In uh Georgia.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know. I don't know that I
Speaker 1: buy that. You know, I've even had folks float the RFK.
Speaker 1: I don't see that happening, but it's it's an interesting thing.
Speaker 1: The reason you don't go for an RFK kind of
Speaker 1: kind of candidate, you know, you think you think back
Speaker 1: to the Lieberman days as a VP. The reason you
Speaker 1: don't do that is because the base will punish you.
Speaker 1: But the base is with Trump no matter what he does,
Speaker 1: and that creates an interesting, uh paradox because it doesn't
Speaker 1: keep Trump honest. I think sometimes he strays from from
Speaker 1: where he should be because the base won't punish him.
Speaker 1: But by the same token, it gives him the freedom
Speaker 1: to do things like Nixon going to China because the
Speaker 1: base will always forgive him. And so I don't know.
Speaker 1: You know, you and I don't really have managers per se,
Speaker 1: and sometimes maybe we get ourselves in trouble because of it.
Speaker 1: But not having managers means we also have the flexibility
Speaker 1: to do what we want to do. So there is
Speaker 1: that challenge. I don't have the answer to that statement
Speaker 1: just yet. I do think it's a woman. He will
Speaker 1: never say it's going to be a woman, but I
Speaker 1: do think it's a woman. I hope it.
Speaker 2: Who do you think would be if you were advising him?
Speaker 2: Who do you think would be the smartest female to
Speaker 2: put on his ticket?
Speaker 1: Christy Noum, that gorgeous woman from the Dakotas. Now, the
Speaker 1: base doesn't like a lot of things about her, and look,
Speaker 1: she doesn't deliver a big state that you weren't going
Speaker 1: to win. Already, and then there's always the danger that
Speaker 1: there's a Sarah Palin phenomenon that she looks silly, or
Speaker 1: she looks like she's a performance artist or whatever else.
Speaker 1: I think she's more serious than Sarah Palin. I'm not
Speaker 1: a fan of hers, although I think she's gorgeous. But
Speaker 1: I do think that he's smart enough to know that
Speaker 1: that's a weakness and he can't have an old white conservative,
Speaker 1: wingtip wearing Christian guy like Mike Pince. I think he
Speaker 1: saw that as Pince not adding anything, and so I
Speaker 1: think he wants I think he would want a woman
Speaker 1: that might be more appealing to the base, I mean
Speaker 1: to the suburban women, and I think that whoever pitches
Speaker 1: that to him is going to win out. That's the
Speaker 1: smart choice from an electoral perspective, not a who would
Speaker 1: be great president. I think that's the smart choice.
Speaker 2: Everybody. You should go check out. You can listen live
Speaker 2: to The Michael Barry Show on kt R h and Houston,
Speaker 2: but you can also listen to the podcast of it
Speaker 2: on the iHeartRadio app wherever get your podcast. The Michael
Speaker 2: Barry Show. The Czar of Talk Mister Barry always an
Speaker 2: honor sir, thanks for spending some time with us here.
Speaker 1: Appreciate you. You're a good friend. Thank you, bub you too, Sir,