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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: Hi everyone, and welcome to the podcast. It's me James

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Speaker 2: today and I'm joined by Danny. Danny's an engineering photographer

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Speaker 2: who lived in North East Syria from twenty eighteen until

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three and a founding member of the RISE,

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Speaker 2: which is the Rajarva Information Center if you're not familiar,

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Speaker 2: and she worked for self administration Civil Engineering while she

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Speaker 2: was there. Welcome to show Danny.

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Speaker 3: Hi James, it's really good to be on Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Jas, thanks thanks for coming. I know it's like a

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Speaker 2: stressful time. So what I thought we would do is

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Speaker 2: there's been a lot of reporting on Syria that people

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Speaker 2: have probably seen if they're living in the US or

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Speaker 2: the UK. Nearly all of it has either excluded or

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Speaker 2: like footnoted what's happening in North and East Syria and

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Speaker 2: specifically in the areas that are under a self administration.

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Speaker 2: So I was hoping today we could give people a

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Speaker 2: little more introduction to what's happening there. There's been a

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Speaker 2: lot of like jubilation about what's happening in Syria, and

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Speaker 2: things have been very far from universally positive.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: There's a massive dis placement of civilians, ethnic lensing of

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Speaker 2: areas that have been captured by the Turkish Baksterian National

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Speaker 2: Army and genuine like peril for the self administration project,

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Speaker 2: the like of which we haven't seen for a long time.

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Speaker 2: So perhaps if listeners an't familiar, would you give them

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Speaker 2: the real basics of the self administration of the AA

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Speaker 2: ANDES and what it means and what's going on there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's a big question because it's like it's

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Speaker 3: a big project. It's been going on for quite some time. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it really has. It's kind of been lost in discussions

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Speaker 3: and news about the Serian Civil War because it has

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Speaker 3: been such a complex, multipolar, multi access, multi ethnic conflict,

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Speaker 3: and it's been going on for what like thirteen fourteen

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Speaker 3: years now, yeah, coming up to fourteen years. The Kurds

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Speaker 3: in the northeast had been preparing for some time before

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Speaker 3: the outbreak of civil war back in twenty eleven for

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Speaker 3: something like this. Obviously they didn't they didn't know this

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Speaker 3: was going to happen. That they had been working on

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Speaker 3: revolutionary emancipation for decades, and in particular since around two thousand,

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Speaker 3: they've been working on this concept of democratic and federalism,

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Speaker 3: which is moving away from a sort of what they

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Speaker 3: call an old paradigm of Marxist Leninist thought to this

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Speaker 3: system they've now quite effectively built up there where democracy

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Speaker 3: is bottom up. It's structured around small communes and self

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Speaker 3: organizing units, cooperatives. There's a market economy, but it's not

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Speaker 3: a catalyst economy where there's sort of radical emancipation of

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Speaker 3: oppressed to people's particular women who are really centered in

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Speaker 3: the revolutionary process and organizing there. And I think because

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Speaker 3: they maybe you can't call them conflict avoided, that they

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Speaker 3: haven't avoided conflict. They very famously defeated Isis amongst other

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Speaker 3: groups in the northeast, they fought against Alan's Refront and

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Speaker 3: various other Hadi groups. They also didn't enter into serious

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Speaker 3: conflict with either their FSA as they were, or the

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Speaker 3: regime and the assad regime, and so they kind of

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Speaker 3: managed to carve out a sort of democratic and semi enclave.

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Speaker 3: I mean people who describe it as a state that

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Speaker 3: they quite vehemently say it's not a state in the

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Speaker 3: northeast of Syria. Whilst the worst of the fighting was

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Speaker 3: between the Assid regime and the FSA and groups that

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Speaker 3: came out of the FSA in the west and south

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Speaker 3: of the country.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's very good summary. I think like

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Speaker 2: it gets missed maybe because of how relatively successful it's

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Speaker 2: been compared to other democratization projects within Syria. It gets

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Speaker 2: missed that like when people are talking about what will

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Speaker 2: happen in Syria now bizarrely and I don't quite like

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Speaker 2: I don't quite understand how we get here, but people

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Speaker 2: seem to go to like Libya or I understand how

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Speaker 2: we get here process like orientalism and ignorance, but we

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Speaker 2: have a functioning democracy an example of like, it's not

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Speaker 2: just Kurdish people, right, it's lots of communities living together

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Speaker 2: in northern East Syria, and because of democratic and federalism

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Speaker 2: they're able to coexist and still feel that they have

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Speaker 2: enough sovereignty to be safe. Is that fair?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, absolutely, And I think something that it's hard

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Speaker 3: to convey or fully understand unless you spend a lot

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Speaker 3: of time there or you're deeply involved with any of

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Speaker 3: these communities, is quite how hard that was to do. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: a lot of different ethnic groups, political groups that hate

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Speaker 3: each other, you know. Yeah, the Kurds, they brought in

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Speaker 3: lots of different policies like their right to be taught

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Speaker 3: in your mother tongue. When they took power twenty twelve onwards,

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Speaker 3: they were very keen not to just sort of replace

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Speaker 3: everything with Kurdish, make a Kurdish state, you know, start

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Speaker 3: being the oppressor and sort of be oppressed. They made

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Speaker 3: sure that they continue us An Arabic as the majority

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Speaker 3: language because it is the majority language. That the north

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Speaker 3: and east of Syria is still an Arab majority area,

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Speaker 3: and this is despite the fact that they've been pretty

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Speaker 3: horrendously oppressed by the Arab population through the Bath Party

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Speaker 3: and its oppressive systems for decades. So it has been

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Speaker 3: a pretty hard ongoing process to negotiate and to put

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Speaker 3: aside pretty serious conflicts between quite a few different groups

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Speaker 3: that exist there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it won't be any easier of across the whole

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Speaker 2: country than it was there, but like, they have a

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Speaker 2: system that works, and it's kind of frustrating to see

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Speaker 2: these discussions of what happens next that just ignore the

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Speaker 2: fact that there's a functioning multi ethnic democracy right there.

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Speaker 2: So if we do just look at women's liberation, you know,

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Speaker 2: I've reported from lots of places around the world, lots

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Speaker 2: of places in that part of the world, and the

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Speaker 2: difference is profound in like everyday life. It's not just

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Speaker 2: a kind of rhetorical commitment, right, Like, at least my

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Speaker 2: impression as a man is that, like, this is a

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Speaker 2: revolution by women, not a revolution and it's about women.

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Speaker 2: It's not a revolution by men that like seeks to

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Speaker 2: liberate women, says it's going to liberate women, you know,

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Speaker 2: with the US in verie Afghanistan saying it's going to

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Speaker 2: liberate women, and look what we got. And like the

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Speaker 2: difference in just the way people are able to live,

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Speaker 2: like every aspect of everyday life is completely different. But

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Speaker 2: that's in danger right now. The narrative I guess that

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Speaker 2: people will be familiar with from Syria is that the

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Speaker 2: state has been defeated, the A Sad regime has been defeated,

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Speaker 2: and that therefore the revolution has succeeded. But the A

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Speaker 2: Sad regime is not the only state in play in Syria, right, So,

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Speaker 2: can you explain the Turkish antipathy to the project in

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Speaker 2: northern East Syria and how that's manifesting itself currently.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pretty hard to discuss any of the stuff

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Speaker 3: without talking about Turkey and without understanding where they're coming from. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think it's something that is said enough or understood

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Speaker 3: enough that the modern state of Turkey is an nationalist project.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I don't say that as a slur.

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Speaker 3: That's like a basic founding principle of the state. It's

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Speaker 3: a state founded on genocide and the mass for demographic

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Speaker 3: change across the whole country. And it's continued that way,

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Speaker 3: and there have been reforms for sure, but that's still

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Speaker 3: a founding principle. And even now sort of speaking a

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Speaker 3: non Turkish language in the Turkish Parliament is a pretty

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Speaker 3: serious violation. And the size of Turkey, the size of

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Speaker 3: its economy, the size of its military, the regional power

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Speaker 3: status they have in the Middle East means that they

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Speaker 3: have an enormous gravity. They have an enormous amount of

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Speaker 3: power over Syria. A lot of the goods and services

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Speaker 3: that Syria relies on coming through Turkey or rely on

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Speaker 3: the Turkish industry, and the Turkish military is a huge

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Speaker 3: supporter of their groups in the northwestam and the Syrian

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Speaker 3: National Army, and of course the Kurdish question within Turkey

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Speaker 3: is the main reason for their antipathy towards the What's

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Speaker 3: been built up in North East Syria. As much as

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Speaker 3: the self determination for oppressed people's minorities is something that's

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Speaker 3: an issue, the fact that it's Kurdish led, and in

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Speaker 3: particular it's emancipating for Kurdish people threatens this nationalist aspect

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Speaker 3: of their state, and they kind of they see it

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Speaker 3: something that needs to be nipped in the Bud right,

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Speaker 3: and they've they've sort of done that with Northern Iraq,

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Speaker 3: that the Kurdish region of Northern Iraq by essentially vassalizing

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Speaker 3: the KDP, the main party there, and they know they

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Speaker 3: can't do the same in North Eastyria, and the military

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Speaker 3: option is their best chance, their best hope of nipping

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Speaker 3: Kurdish emancipation in Kurdish sub determination in the Bud and

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Speaker 3: preventing it from sort of snowboarding across the region.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we should probably mention that, Like I

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Speaker 2: guess if we talk about like the electoral method or

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Speaker 2: the electoral path people in Turkish Kurdistan, in Northern Kurdistan,

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Speaker 2: if you want to call it. In addition to the

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Speaker 2: arms struggle which has been there since nineteen eighty four,

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Speaker 2: they have also like tried to vote and repeatedly seen

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Speaker 2: their votes ignored or changed, or their elected officials removed.

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Speaker 2: Like this is within the last year, I'm not talking

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Speaker 2: about back in the eighties and nineties, and like Turkey

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Speaker 2: has been aggressively attacking any attempts at like self determination

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Speaker 2: within the country and then as you say, like militarily

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Speaker 2: attacking the Kurdish freedom movement within North and Eassyria. Do

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Speaker 2: you want to talk about the Syrian National Army or

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Speaker 2: the Turkish back Free Syrian Army, whatever you want to

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Speaker 2: call them, and explain, Like, I think part of what

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Speaker 2: we're dealing with is like that Turkey has a very

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Speaker 2: well established state media project and they seem to do

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Speaker 2: very well and like creating viral social media content. So

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Speaker 2: people might not be fully familiar with who the SNA

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Speaker 2: are and specifically like Turkey's role in creating them. Do

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Speaker 2: you want to explain that a bit to people?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean this is this is one of the

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Speaker 3: reasons why I think it's so hard for people to

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Speaker 3: report on the Syrian Civil War. It's very hard to

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Speaker 3: convey like a simple coherent narrative of one side versus

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Speaker 3: the other, you know, like Ukraine versus Russia. The Russian

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Speaker 3: world and the Ukrainian world, because there are there are

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Speaker 3: so many different groups in the sna IS that it's

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Speaker 3: an important one and they are their group. Together with

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Speaker 3: this concept of the rebels that have liberated Syria, despite

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Speaker 3: the fact that they're not actually part of High Alshan,

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Speaker 3: the liberation movement as it calls itself, that have taken

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Speaker 3: over the Syria. Yeah, the Syrian National Army, it's it's

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Speaker 3: kind of like a loose collection of various some of

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Speaker 3: them called themselves brigades or groups. It's essentially a military

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Speaker 3: proxy force of Turkey. They don't have a coherent political framework.

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Speaker 3: They're not revolutionary groups. They're not liberatory or mancipatory. They

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Speaker 3: wouldn't describe themselves as that in the same way that

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Speaker 3: maybe HTS would. I mean, the Kurds in North Eastyria

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Speaker 3: describe them as gangs, which kind of sounds like a

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Speaker 3: propagana term, but when you actually look at what they do,

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Speaker 3: they really are like a sort of a criminal enterprise,

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Speaker 3: a criminal gang that's used as a convenient proxy for

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Speaker 3: force by Turkey because ultimately Turkey has like a massive

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Speaker 3: military then maybe is quite underfunded and not particularly ast

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Speaker 3: After the air force has suffered pretty seriously from the

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Speaker 3: fallout of the cop in twenty sixteen. But the army

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Speaker 3: is massive, it's relatively well funded, in their drone program

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Speaker 3: is huge. The thing that they struggle with is the

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Speaker 3: losses that are incurred against Kurdish groups, particularly the PKK

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Speaker 3: in the mountains between Ark and Turkey. And they need

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Speaker 3: to control that because they realized that they've been fighting

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Speaker 3: military because as you say, since the early nineteen eighties,

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Speaker 3: and they can't have a vitnance situation right of a

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Speaker 3: mass movement against their military occupation and against their military efforts.

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Speaker 3: And Syria, they can't afford financially or politically to get

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Speaker 3: into a quagmire there, and so by funding this sort

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Speaker 3: of collection of groups called the SNA, that's their way

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Speaker 3: of being able to incur pretty massive losses without having

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Speaker 3: to report on it, without that creating unrest or opposition

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Speaker 3: within the Turkish population of Turkey.

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Speaker 2: Right, And I think especially when like some of the

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Speaker 2: things the SNA have done, which we can maybe get

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Speaker 2: into in MANPJ like, it gives them a deniability that

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Speaker 2: wouldn't exist if that was regular soldiers doing that, Like

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Speaker 2: some stuff which is war crimes is I guess a

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Speaker 2: nice way of saying it, like a more sanitized way

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Speaker 2: of saying it. Horrific stuff, really terrible stuff. This has

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Speaker 2: been happening since at least twenty eighteen. But Turkey doesn't

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Speaker 2: have to be held accountable for that because, like you said,

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Speaker 2: it's not Turkish, it's not the Turkish Army. Do you

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Speaker 2: want to explain how the situation in North Syria has

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Speaker 2: changed since what was it like two weeks ago? A

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Speaker 2: week ago? I guess that they moved south from Aleppo

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Speaker 2: and start the HTS Largy with some support from SNA,

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Speaker 2: moved towards Damascus, and then the SNA launched its own

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Speaker 2: assault on the Self Administration. Can you explain a little

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Speaker 2: bit of what's happened there in terms of displacement and

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Speaker 2: in terms of the terrain that's the SNA have captured.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been very fast moving now, as you say,

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Speaker 3: like it's only been two weeks since the Battle Aleppos started,

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Speaker 3: if you call it a battle. So the SDH, so

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Speaker 3: this is like the alliance of military groups that falls

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Speaker 3: under the remit of the Self Administration in the north

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Speaker 3: East Siria. So the YPG and the YPG are like

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Speaker 3: the most famous and largest components of this force, but

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Speaker 3: there are a whole bunch of Arab and Syrian and

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Speaker 3: Armenian units within the SDF. They held this sort of

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Speaker 3: salient pushing out into northwest Aria towards Afrin, which was

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Speaker 3: captured by the SNA in Turkey in twenty eighteen. That

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Speaker 3: was on one side finded by HTS and on the

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Speaker 3: other by the SNA. When things really kicked off, the

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Speaker 3: SNA started a pretty concerned campaign to capture this area

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Speaker 3: and own as Shedpa, and because of its position and

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Speaker 3: it's relatively difficult terrain and difficult logitical position to resupply,

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Speaker 3: they pulled back from that towards Aleppo and man Beach,

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Speaker 3: which is the only major city that the SDS still

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Speaker 3: held on the west of the Euphrates. It's the area

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Speaker 3: closest to Aleppo. They got hit pretty hard. If you

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Speaker 3: follow a live upday map or and you vie sort

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Speaker 3: of update maps, it looked like that. That's pretty quickly. Actually,

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Speaker 3: it ended up being a sort of large gray zone

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Speaker 3: of the gorilla attacks and potential still ongoing. It's been

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Speaker 3: really murking hot tell what's going on there, But essentially

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Speaker 3: there's a large area of uncontrolled but heavily contested territory

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Speaker 3: between Aleppo and the Euphrates River now and which the

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Speaker 3: SDF and the SNA have been fighting over.

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Speaker 4: Like.

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Speaker 3: One of the curious things for me is that the

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Speaker 3: Turkish Air Force and literally did not get involved for

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Speaker 3: a while, but after about a week they did, and

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Speaker 3: they started hitting man Beach very very heavily. And at

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Speaker 3: that point, when the center of man Beach started being

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Speaker 3: contested and for over, the US stepped in. We don't

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Speaker 3: know the details of it, but there seems to have

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Speaker 3: been some kind of negotiation whereby the suggestion is that

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Speaker 3: if the SDF fighters pulled back across the Euphrates, the

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Speaker 3: SDF would assure their protection from any further resorts. We

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Speaker 3: don't know how true that is, and we know that

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Speaker 3: today further negotiations on this failed. But it's really hard

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Speaker 3: to tell right now as we speak what's disinformation and

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Speaker 3: what's truth, because stuff's only coming out officially in ribs.

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Speaker 2: Traps, yeah, and stuff's coming out unofficially often that it's

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Speaker 2: just not true, yeah, every five minutes and getting blasted

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Speaker 2: by maybe people who just don't understand or who do understand,

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Speaker 2: but have a certain agenda to push on social media,

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Speaker 2: especially but on telegram too, and it can be really confusing,

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Speaker 2: it's really frustrating.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. For instance, like just before we came on air,

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Speaker 3: I saw a couple of videos being posted by pro

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Speaker 3: Turkish accounts purportedly showing mass troop concentrations lined up against

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Speaker 3: this border war waiting to invade. And I realized that

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Speaker 3: they were from two thousand and nineteen, when Sarah Kane

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Speaker 3: and Tellerbayad were invaded, and they were just reposting material

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Speaker 3: from then, you know, as disinformation on these movements and

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Speaker 3: whether in Ta's going to happen, what the negotiations between

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Speaker 3: the US and Turkey turned out to be. And the

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Speaker 3: truth is like right now, we don't know exactly what's

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Speaker 3: going on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and like you probably won't and that's probably a

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Speaker 2: good thing. One other thing is that like the SDF

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Speaker 2: tends to have much better operational security discipline than the

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Speaker 2: SNA does, so you won't see as much of like

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Speaker 2: media with an SDF spin or people directly streaming. I mean,

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Speaker 2: one thing the SDNA likes to do is a war

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Speaker 2: crime and then post it on Telegram and so like

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Speaker 2: it can be easy to only see that and be like,

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Speaker 2: oh god, it's terrible, and it is terrible. Those things

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Speaker 2: are horrific. But like, because you're not seeing when the

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Speaker 2: SDF is making movements or making advances until a bit later,

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Speaker 2: until you get something from like an official press channel,

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Speaker 2: it can give the impression that the SNA is just

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Speaker 2: romping around, which is not the case.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we saw this a few times when manbut is

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Speaker 3: reported to being captured by the SNA and they posted

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Speaker 3: video of themselves in the middle of the city, and

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Speaker 3: then an hour later, the SDF posted a video from

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Speaker 3: the center of the city of twenty or thirty dead

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Speaker 3: SNA litting about the streets and then flying their own flag.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, it's really it's really hard to tell.

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Speaker 3: It's also really hard as like anyone who cares about

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Speaker 3: the region has been there, is reported on it. Anyone

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Speaker 3: interested in the kind of politics that the Kurds are

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Speaker 3: built up in the region and others I should says,

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Speaker 3: you know, it's been a multithink project if you care

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Speaker 3: about that. It's really hard not to be glued to

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Speaker 3: social media to see what's going on, but it can

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Speaker 3: be quite detrimental to morrow it can be quite an

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Speaker 3: active self harm to be like constantly checking on this

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Speaker 3: because it's so mucky. Yeah, and as you say, like

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Speaker 3: things can turn around within two hours of infer or

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Speaker 3: distance for getting out there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it's it's a super important time

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Speaker 2: to be looking at trusted sources and be considering if

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Speaker 2: you need to be on telegram that much, something I

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Speaker 2: have been considering this weekend. So let's talk about like

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Speaker 2: right now, certainly the focus is on Kabani, right, but

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Speaker 2: there's also well, there's a lot of the self administration

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Speaker 2: that could potentially be under threat if Turkey decides to

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Speaker 2: go as hard as as it can against the self administration,

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Speaker 2: against the existence of I guess any form of democratic

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Speaker 2: project in northern Easteria of attempts to kind of bring

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Speaker 2: the whole thing under one government from Damascus. Can you

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Speaker 2: explain like what might happen, what people can do, and

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Speaker 2: like we should talk about what's at stake as well,

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Speaker 2: especially with the prisoner our whole, which maybe we can

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Speaker 2: come to after those two things, because I think that's

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Speaker 2: a lot to ask you one question, but maybe people

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Speaker 2: aren't familiar with our whole. We'll leave that one. But

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Speaker 2: can you explain at first, like what could potentially happen

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Speaker 2: if Turkey decides to go as hard as it wants

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Speaker 2: to hear?

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think the best way to answer that

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Speaker 3: question is to look at what's already happened. So in

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Speaker 3: twenty eighteen and nineteen, they already captured three significant cities

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Speaker 3: and that were under control of the self administration to

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Speaker 3: the first and most famously was Afrin, which was in

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Speaker 3: the far northwest of the country, like just north of Villeppo,

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Speaker 3: sort of jutting out into Turkey. That was a majority

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Speaker 3: Kurdish city. I don't know exactly, does it with something

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Speaker 3: like eighty or ninety percent, which I think is higher

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Speaker 3: than any other city in northern Syria. And it was

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Speaker 3: also like it's seen the least fighting of pretty much

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Speaker 3: anywhere in Syria by that point. So the war had

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Speaker 3: been going on for like what seven years, and Afin

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Speaker 3: was pretty much untouched. So it was in a pretty

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Speaker 3: good state. And Turkey and the SNA invaded just as

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Speaker 3: the war against ISIS was winding down, and I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's become a hell on Earth. It's been almost completely depopulated.

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Speaker 3: I think it's less than ten percent now Kurdish ethnically,

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Speaker 3: it has been ruled by a number of different groups.

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Speaker 3: We can say the SNA, but you know, different groups

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Speaker 3: within the SNA and have fought over it. At the

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Speaker 3: HTS at times have had control over certain parts of

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Speaker 3: the area, and there's been a in fighting. There's been

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Speaker 3: horrendous war crimes committed, great murder, thousands of disappeared people,

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Speaker 3: and as you say, they really like to openly put

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Speaker 3: videos out of them committing this stuff. I mean, they're

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Speaker 3: pretty shameless about it. There are some pretty disturbing videos

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Speaker 3: that they're mutilating the bodies of fallen WIPJ soldiers, of

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Speaker 3: coming some re executions, of wiping out whole towns. It's

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Speaker 3: been awful. And the same thing happened again in twenty nineteen

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Speaker 3: around in October when they captured as Sarah Khane and Talabayad.

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Speaker 3: And it's worth also pointing out that these were not

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Speaker 3: Kurdish majority city surprise, and so I think that Sarah

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Speaker 3: Karney maybe was about fifty percent and Telebiads, which is

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Speaker 3: kind of close to Kurbani, I'm pretty sure wasn't Kurlish

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Speaker 3: majority city. B was organized under the self administration and

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Speaker 3: it was organized quite effectively, and they committed the same

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Speaker 3: horrific crimes there. They are an anti Kurdish for so

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Speaker 3: if we can say that they are racist, they do

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Speaker 3: have a stated goal of committing genocide against the Kurts.

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Speaker 3: That's not an exaggeration. There's something they openly say. But

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Speaker 3: they don't seem to care who they steal from, or

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Speaker 3: who they rape or who they extort. Wherever they go,

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Speaker 3: it's death and destruction. And it still is now, And

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Speaker 3: there's still something like a quarter of a million internally

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Speaker 3: displaced people from these areas in North Essyria hoping to

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Speaker 3: go back and now having to see the situation get

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Speaker 3: even worse and not knowing if they ever well be

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Speaker 3: able to.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think like you were talking about, like

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Speaker 2: we're seeing it right now in man Beach, right like

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Speaker 2: the SNA seems to lie. You be in controlled of

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Speaker 2: the city, albeit with YPG fighters kind of boring and

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Speaker 2: I guess in a gorilla role, so it would seem

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Speaker 2: still fighting there. But where I believe we're on the

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Speaker 2: second day of a general strike in man Beach after

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Speaker 2: less than a week of the SNA holding it because

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Speaker 2: of looting and executions and other war crimes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think this is like actually really good political

406
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Speaker 3: education to see what's happening because what's been built up

407
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Speaker 3: in the Northeast has been built up over decades. Right.

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Speaker 3: They like to use this anology of the myosolium and

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Speaker 3: the fruiting bodies of a mushroom. They appear to magically

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Speaker 3: emerge from the earth in the autumn out of nowhere,

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Speaker 3: but actually, you know, they've been brewing underground for years before,

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Speaker 3: and they use this analogy because it took decades to

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Speaker 3: put in place these structures. That's why they were ready

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Speaker 3: as soon as the regime the Acid region poured out

415
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Speaker 3: and collapsed in the face of Isis in the early

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Speaker 3: stages of the war, they were ready to build up

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Speaker 3: these structures. They already had self organized militias, They had

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Speaker 3: the economy planned out that they set to work immediately,

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Speaker 3: and their SNA don't have any of that. They are

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Speaker 3: a force of convenience. They're mostly sort of young men

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Speaker 3: who were in groups before that were defeated in Syria

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Speaker 3: like Isis, who are simply taking the opportunity to enrich themselves.

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Speaker 3: And that's also very convenient for Turkey because they do

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Speaker 3: the dirty work against the population of North Easypyria. So

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Speaker 3: I think it is worth saying that that aspect of it,

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Speaker 3: that preparation, that resilience, is something that also works in

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Speaker 3: favor in the event of the worst case of full

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Speaker 3: invasion of northern Assyria. I do think they are significantly

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Speaker 3: better prepared than they were in twenty eighteen and nineteen.

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Speaker 3: And even if the worst happens, even if militarily it's defeated,

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Speaker 3: that's not going to be the end of this project, right,

432
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,400
Speaker 3: It's not going to be the end of this emancipation.

433
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 3: There's now an entire generation of young people in North

434
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 3: Eastyria who have grown up entirely living amongst a liberated

435
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 3: and emancipated region and people that's not something you can

436
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 3: militarily defeat. So I you know, I'm not completely hopeless,

437
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,360
Speaker 3: and obviously I'll be like devastated if the worst does

438
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,679
Speaker 3: happen there, But like, I don't think it means the

439
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 3: end of this incredible political And it feels wrong to

440
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 3: call it a project because it's not. It's really is

441
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 3: a revolution in the every possible meaning of the word,

442
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 3: and it's deeply embedded. Now.

443
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think everyone I spoke to there, like

444
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 2: there's a deeply held conviction that they're not going back

445
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 2: some people who have seen like first hand the fascist

446
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 2: violence of ISIS, and fascist is the right word. It's

447
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 2: something maybe worse than fascism, but like certainly that like

448
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 2: speaking to women in Chava about how they're not going

449
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 2: back to the gendered violence of they experience for decades

450
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 2: to include ISIS, but by no means like only from ISIS.

451
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 2: And I guess that kind of brings us on to

452
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 2: I wanted to talk a little bit of the situation

453
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 2: in the parts of Syria that are controlled by HCS

454
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 2: and and inso much as they really are controlled, controller

455
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 2: perhaps are on word like they haven't fully established their

456
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 2: state project yet, but they're certainly moving towards that they've

457
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 2: sort of captured the institutions of the state rather than

458
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 2: destroyed them. You'd spoken about, like there's this very I

459
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 2: don't know, I think, I guess maybe i'll use an

460
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 2: examples or I'm phrasing this question in a very meandering way.

461
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,120
Speaker 2: I sort of ce ann clip where they're they're like, Oh,

462
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 2: we found a guy who's liberally who's like in this

463
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 2: prison and he was stuck here, and then second part

464
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 2: of this was not broadcast on CNN, as this person

465
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 2: turns out to be like an Air Force lieutenant who

466
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 2: was in fact himself someone who tortured and killed civilians.

467
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 2: And like, there's this very liberatory, very excited messaging coming

468
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 2: from media in the West. I guess some of which

469
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 2: is good, right, Like, it's good that the Assabe regime

470
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 2: is good, Asab was fucking terrible and tortured and killed

471
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 2: hundreds of thousands of his own people. But that doesn't

472
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 2: mean that things are all affected Damascus. So do you

473
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 2: want to talk a little bit about like some of

474
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 2: the worrying stuff we see in the last few days

475
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 2: from those areas.

476
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean this is something that I worry isn't

477
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 3: being spoken about enough. I don't, as a non Syrian,

478
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 3: don't want to say to people, you know, you shouldn't

479
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 3: be celebrating your own liberation, because people should absolutely should

480
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 3: be and it's their right to be. And I'm, like it,

481
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,439
Speaker 3: extremely happy that this brutal dictator has gone. I mean,

482
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 3: it's it's hard to summarize quite how awful he was,

483
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 3: and it's it's deeply refiltrating that he's probably not going

484
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 3: to see justice, but it's also really hard to see

485
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 3: stuff which is really reminiscent of like nineteen seventy nine Tehran,

486
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 3: two thousand and three Baghdad, of a sort of jubilation,

487
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 3: whilst at the same time there are videos of sort

488
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 3: of programs being carried out against minorities, minorities like the

489
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 3: Allites who were in control, and you don't know if

490
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 3: the person being executed in the street was a torture

491
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,640
Speaker 3: an intelligence agent, and you don't know who they were.

492
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,239
Speaker 3: But like, this is happening, but you're also seeing like

493
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:11,199
Speaker 3: sallaphist groups raising their flag, you know, like hardline is

494
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,199
Speaker 3: mis raising their flag in places like the Takia and

495
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 3: Tatoos that have significant minority populations. I am very I

496
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 3: mean concerned, is in the right word, Like it's hard

497
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 3: to feel that spirit of liberation when when you see

498
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 3: not only these things happening, but that the people who

499
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 3: have captured these state institutions are admitted former members of

500
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 3: al Qaida, and they are they are Jihad's hard line

501
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,959
Speaker 3: people that have now got a very evitably made themselves

502
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 3: about to be moderate. But my guart feeling is that

503
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 3: we're going to see something like May seventy nine Tehran,

504
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 3: of a lot of talk of reconciliation, a lot of

505
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 3: talk of you know, the concerns of the Kurds or

506
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 3: working with the communists, but you know, mass executions and

507
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 3: oppression is not far around them corner. And I guess

508
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 3: when the jubilation dies down, my question is what's going

509
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 3: to happen when minorities do you demand their rights? Or

510
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 3: women don't want to write a job in you know,

511
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 3: inside the building's inst state institutions. And I'm finding it

512
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 3: very hard to believe that these men who are professed

513
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 3: is themists are going to allow a moderate future to exist.

514
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I don't know. Every day we get different information, right,

515
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 2: but like, yeah, I don't know if concerned it's the

516
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 2: right word either, I don't quite know what the word is.

517
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 2: But like I'm worried. I guess I'm worried that I'm

518
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 2: especially worried when like, rather than what we saw in

519
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 2: the self administration was not like a continuation of institutions

520
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 2: right when the Assad regime left in twenty eleven, in

521
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 2: twenty twelve, and areas that the regime or isis have

522
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 2: left since then, like it wasn't like Okay, we'll take

523
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 2: over these institutions and minister them differently, as we will

524
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 2: build democracy from the bottom up, not we'll just change

525
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 2: to people in charge versus what it seems like we're

526
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 2: now seeing for Damascus is like, hey, can the police

527
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 2: from the cyber regime police stay at work? Which is

528
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 2: concerning Talking of police, the last thing I wanted to

529
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 2: address was that our whole camp. I've spoken about it

530
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 2: before on this show, and people can look back or

531
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 2: other episodes, but if you've not heard about it, can

532
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 2: you explain briefly what our whole is and then the

533
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 2: massive risk that this Turkish backed invasion poses to our

534
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 2: whole and other camps. I guess the whole is not

535
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 2: the only camp, just the biggest one.

536
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, our whole is a really important point to talk about.

537
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 3: Our whole is a very large camp. It's hard to

538
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,719
Speaker 3: sum up what kind of camp it is because it's

539
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 3: so vast and had different sections. It's near Alhasseko, which

540
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 3: is one of the largest cities in north East Syria.

541
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 3: It mostly it mostly contains families who were members or

542
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 3: were resident in the Islamic State when it collapsed. So

543
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 3: in the beginning of twenty nineteen ISIS was sort of

544
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 3: squeezed into this little corner in the eastern side of

545
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,400
Speaker 3: Syria between the Euphrates and the Iraqi border, and when

546
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 3: the state collapsed, for the caliphate collapse, a lot of

547
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 3: people had nowhere to go, and a lot of them

548
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 3: were foreignly succoming from abroad. I'm going to say a lot.

549
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 3: I mean like tens of thousands. There were something like

550
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 3: twenty thousand families left within SUSA and that was like

551
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 3: the last parts of the Califate to hold out, and

552
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 3: they didn't have anywhere to go. And there were already

553
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 3: camps set up for IDPs for members of ISIS and

554
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 3: families in North Assyria, but alcohol was rapidly expanded to

555
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 3: take these on. So it's a sort of semi prison,

556
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 3: semi open camp that I think peaked at seventy five

557
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 3: thousand people, which it sounds like a lot on its own,

558
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 3: but when you consider that a large city in northern

559
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 3: Eastsyria is about one hundred and fifty thousand people, it

560
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 3: still is significant. I don't you probably have work of

561
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 3: recent because I mean, but I think the current population

562
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 3: is about forty thousand.

563
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it shrunk definitely. I'm not sure what it is exactly.

564
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 3: The big problem that the self administration have had is multitude.

565
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 3: Really many of the people there are foreigners. Many of

566
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 3: them don't have papers. Many of them come from countries

567
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 3: that I either don't want them back or will almost

568
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 3: certainly execute them if they're sent back like a rock,

569
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 3: which is against the policy of the abolition of death penalty.

570
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 3: Inn Asyria. There are some in al whole, but mostly

571
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 3: other camps in the North and East Asyria. Former ISIS

572
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 3: members like Shamama Begam who come from countries like the

573
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 3: UK who simply won't take them back, and the uk

574
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 3: IS taken back some families that simply refuses to take

575
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 3: back their since you joined ISIS, says, you know, card

576
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 3: carrying members. So they've made a pretty massive effort to

577
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 3: repatriate as many families as possible. They've made a big

578
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 3: effort to rehabilitate and deradicalize as many people as possible.

579
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 3: They have strung the camp massively, but they're still, yeah,

580
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,479
Speaker 3: forty thousand or something left there. And these are like

581
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 3: really a lot of them are really radical, Like I think,

582
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 3: I don't know what an exact number is, but something

583
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 3: in the order of ten thousand of them are still

584
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 3: like professed being members of ices, and they have a

585
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 3: lot of children. And this was something that shocked me

586
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 3: when I was at the end of the Caliphate and

587
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 3: back Goods and witnessed tens of thousands of people coming out,

588
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 3: and I could not have imagined how many children that were.

589
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 3: And this was like what five years ago now coming

590
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 3: up to six years ago. So some of them who

591
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 3: were you know, seven, eight, nine years old are now

592
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 3: like heading towards their mid teens. They've spent their entire

593
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 3: lives being radicalized, and like what do you do with them?

594
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 3: And it's no I think there's no coincidence that in

595
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 3: previous Turkish attacks, because Turkey's been attacking the north and

596
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 3: East Assyria for the last five six years now through

597
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 3: the air, through national warfare, and a lot of their

598
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 3: attacks have focused on trying to break these people out.

599
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,839
Speaker 3: They have bombed the entrances to prisons multiple times, They

600
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 3: provided funding and arms and ammunition to groups that are

601
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,879
Speaker 3: trying to break them out, and they provide a safe

602
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 3: passage back to Turkey for those who have managed to escape.

603
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 3: So it's massively in their favor, but of course it's

604
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 3: a Pandora's box, because you know, if that does break over,

605
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 3: and if these people aren't repatriated or aren't you radicalized,

606
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 3: then that's a lot of people who have pretty much

607
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 3: only known their whole lives a extremely radical fascist Islamist ideology.

608
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 3: And I don't think they're just going to give it up. Yeah, No,

609
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 3: that they're not going to join this moderate future Syria.

610
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,800
Speaker 2: No, And like those people have probably experienced, like probably

611
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 2: have terrible experiences within that camp, and that's not going

612
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 2: to make that they don't tend to be moderated and

613
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 2: sort of pacifying experiences. And I'm sure that they will.

614
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:06,879
Speaker 2: There'll be a lot of hate coming from there when

615
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 2: those people come out. And I don't want to lick

616
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 2: a portion blame too much, but we've had a long

617
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 2: time to deal with this. The world has had a

618
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 2: long time to deal with I mean, I would.

619
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 3: Happily blame this is entirely on the hands of the coalition.

620
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:26,839
Speaker 3: Northern Assyria is a very poor places. It's deeply impoverished.

621
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 3: It's been kept in poverished by by sanctions by Turkey.

622
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 3: You know, the oil refining is that the industry, the

623
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 3: economy has been smashed to pieces that they've held on

624
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 3: really well, and that like all credit to them, they

625
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 3: have maintained this camp. They have tried to give these

626
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 3: people alive, but it's it's pretty awful conditions. Yeah, and

627
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 3: this could have been sold if the international community, if

628
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:56,959
Speaker 3: the coalition, particularly United States, had helped with these repatriations,

629
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 3: so put political pressure on European comeses some particulars take

630
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 3: back their citizens and had just provided the funding, you know,

631
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,839
Speaker 3: for they have provided funding. I'm not saying they haven't

632
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 3: ready much, but like it's a drop in the ocean

633
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 3: compared to the Department Defense budget. You know, we're talking

634
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 3: a few tens of millions here and there as opposed

635
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 3: to a concerted effort to deradicalize and repatriate people that

636
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 3: could pose a serious threat to Europe and the US.

637
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like you've got Britain doing the opposite of

638
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 2: what's helpful, which is fucking like removing people's passports right

639
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,439
Speaker 2: the naturalizing them, leaving these people stateless and like saying

640
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 2: it's not our problem, which is pathetic and I'm.

641
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 3: Very incredibly short sighted. Yeah. You know, I don't like

642
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 3: using the word terror or terrorism because I think it's

643
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 3: they've become meaningless terms. But like ISIS did commit horrendous

644
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 3: acts of terror in Europe and the United States, and

645
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 3: these people, a lot of them, I'm sure would happily

646
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 3: do so given the opportunity. So I don't think that

647
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 3: the threat is like sufficiently understood in the West.

648
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, And like it's going to end up biting

649
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 2: them in the ass because they've you know, they've put

650
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 2: this off and put this off, and wouldn't spend the

651
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 2: money to like have justice related to go through a

652
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 2: system and to have a chance to plead their cases

653
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,359
Speaker 2: or have a tribune or whatever it is. Instead, these

654
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 2: people have just been essentially abandoned by most of the world.

655
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 2: The self administration has been forced to take care of

656
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:31,439
Speaker 2: the people who did horrific things right there. And yeah,

657
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 2: at some point, this population will continue to grow if

658
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,359
Speaker 2: we don't keep removing people from it, and that's going

659
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 2: to be a problem for the whole world, even if

660
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:42,920
Speaker 2: the whole world wants to pretend it's not happening right now.

661
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 2: And it is just endlessly frustrating to see it not

662
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,320
Speaker 2: even be covered, let alone kind of addressed in the West.

663
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a really important point when similar

664
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 3: atrustees have been carried out in Europe. We see international tribunals,

665
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 3: we see the ICC and the ICJ step in. We

666
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 3: see arrests, we see prosecutions, you know, like Molossovich, like

667
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 3: the newer Bent trials, and Isis was a massive state.

668
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 3: It had some ten million inhabitants. It committed multiple genocides,

669
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 3: you know, and this is just you know, people in

670
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 3: the regions saying, oh, they're committing just these are like

671
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 3: Western highly studied, highly understood, accepted by Western states as

672
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 3: genocide against like the Uzds. They committed horrendous atrocities. They

673
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 3: posed an international threat and a massive regional threat, and

674
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 3: at the end of the caliphe as a territorial realm,

675
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 3: as a serious military presence. It just, yeah, it just

676
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 3: disappeared off the radar. And I think this is like

677
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 3: a you know, a really is really shows the sort

678
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 3: of racist and clonal mindset behind this rules based international

679
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 3: order that the people who were their victims and who

680
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 3: have left to pick up the pieces after it's got

681
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 3: very little support or recognition. And they've been calling for

682
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,720
Speaker 3: for tribunals for years and it's just fallen on deaf ears.

683
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and sadly idgy that changing given the incoming administration

684
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 2: in the United States. Like it's it's deeply concerning, deeply concerned.

685
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 2: Their own word, it's just fucked. I want to ask, like,

686
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 2: people I think want to be in solidarity with the revolution,

687
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 2: They want to help if they can, they want to support.

688
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 2: I did the fundraiser last night. Thank you to everyone

689
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 2: who gave their money and came. That was really nice.

690
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 2: But what can people do to you know, it's one

691
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 2: thing to like be in solidarity or post or whatever,

692
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 2: but like, what concrete actions can they take to help.

693
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 3: This is This is a question that I gets asked

694
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:42,800
Speaker 3: a lot. Yeah, I think and doing anything is helpful. Yeah,

695
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 3: it's also a question that's really hard to answer given

696
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 3: how things are just across the border in Palestine. You know,

697
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 3: I personally find it hard to to engage and ask

698
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 3: for help and ask for solidarity when you know there's

699
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 3: a there's a genocide being committed next door. But we

700
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 3: might be about to see the same thing happened in Syria,

701
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 3: and I do think we should be taking it seriously.

702
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 3: And yeah, anything from raising awareness to actually going there

703
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 3: and lending support, anything on that spectrum it's not just

704
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,839
Speaker 3: like it's not just the material contribution that you can make.

705
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 3: It's the people that do really feel left doubt, they

706
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 3: feel betrayed, they feel let down by the international community,

707
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 3: by the rest of the world, and any act of

708
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,359
Speaker 3: solidarity goes out incredibly well. Like the first year I

709
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 3: was there, I was basically useless because I didn't speak

710
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 3: the language, I didn't know my way around. I was

711
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 3: like a burden on society more or less. And for

712
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 3: people just like happy that you're there, you know, showing solidarity.

713
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,800
Speaker 3: And it's not about being useful, it's about that act.

714
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 3: It's about more than that. That's what I'm trying to say.

715
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,879
Speaker 3: And if you can show solidarity in any way you can,

716
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 3: like this is incredibly incredibly important to find to do it.

717
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, like I don't know, if I go

718
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 2: back to when I move to the US, which was

719
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 2: two thousand and eight, George W. Bush as president, and

720
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 2: like I have my little free Palestine badge when I

721
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:09,839
Speaker 2: got off the plane in my little kafir and like

722
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 2: was immediately sent to secondary inspection by the customs people

723
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 2: because like that was not really of course, there were

724
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 2: Palestinian people and people in solidarity with the people of

725
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 2: Palestine and the US in and they were for a

726
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 2: long time before. But like I would never have imagined

727
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 2: that I would see thousands of people in the streets

728
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,919
Speaker 2: for the Palestinian cause, and like that the only thing

729
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 2: that has materially held back the genocide of the Palestinian

730
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 2: people has been the solidarity that they've experienced, And like

731
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 2: that shows the power that people have. Though obviously it's

732
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 2: been able to do comparatively little in Israel still seems

733
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 2: to be killing bill children every day, but like it

734
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 2: shows that we can build solidarity really quickly and really meaningfully.

735
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 2: And like you don't have to go, but you can go.

736
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:54,359
Speaker 4: You get.

737
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 2: It's much harder to get to Palestine than it is

738
00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 2: to get to northern Newsyria. I went last year, And

739
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 2: I think people who are already organizing can bring that

740
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,280
Speaker 2: into their organizing too. These things don't have to compete

741
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 2: like they can be. There's a lot of solidarity to

742
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 2: go around. But I would say a lot of the

743
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 2: news we see, unfortunately from Turkey and that will unfortunately

744
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 2: give you information that the extremely biased when it comes

745
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,800
Speaker 2: to Naughsi Siria. So being conscious of your media consumption

746
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 2: is very important.

747
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, I think I would just add that to

748
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 3: say that solidarity with any group is a long term project, right,

749
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 3: You're not going to jump in and be able to

750
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,359
Speaker 3: make a huge difference immediately. But also at the same time,

751
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 3: like if the worst happens, if Turkey invades Ullon and

752
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 3: as genocide and North Assyria, that isn't the end of it.

753
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 3: It's a massive international movement and there are practices from

754
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 3: it that are being put in place in things that

755
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 3: actually don't even have anything to do with the curves

756
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 3: of the nation. And there are always organizing, there are

757
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 3: matters that they use as personality analysis, there's criticism and

758
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 3: self criticism that there's a lot of that that goes

759
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,320
Speaker 3: far beyond a single geographic region, and I think engaging

760
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 3: with that can and I've seen with my own I

761
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 3: since I've been back, like there's a lot of groups

762
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:18,760
Speaker 3: around the UK that use techniques for self organization within

763
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 3: land rights movement, within worker struggle, within ant Cutts campaigning,

764
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 3: and the's got nothing to do with with Rajava, but

765
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 3: they have seen that through solidarity with Rajava and Kurdistan

766
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 3: that there are ways that can improve their own practice

767
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 3: and their own actions.

768
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:39,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's really important too, and those are

769
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 2: things maybe we'll cover in the future. And there are

770
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 2: plenty of good resources online. Are there any resources you'd

771
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 2: like to plug or like personal social media's things? Do

772
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 2: you think people could follow to get good information on

773
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 2: what's happening.

774
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 3: Definitely the ri C, that's the Java Information Center. They

775
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 3: are probably the best source on the ground in Java,

776
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 3: and they are a collective of journalists, a mixture of

777
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 3: locals and internationalists who've been working there for six years now,

778
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 3: so they're a rejar. But I see on various social

779
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 3: media platforms you can follow me as at lapinesque la

780
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 3: p I n E, s q u E. I'm also

781
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:22,399
Speaker 3: posting about it, although I'm not there anymore. I'm using

782
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:26,359
Speaker 3: updates from friends, people I know there and my take

783
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 3: on the situation based on my experiences being there from

784
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 3: five years.

785
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:34,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think good to follow if you can. Thank

786
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 2: you very much, Danny. What we're going to do now

787
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 2: is I got some voice notes from some friends who

788
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 2: are at the front with a technosina and assist, which

789
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 2: means anarchist struggle in Kurdish. They're a group within the

790
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:50,240
Speaker 2: SDF that is an anarchist group that they're fighting, and

791
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 2: in this case as to doing frontline medical support on

792
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 2: behalf of the self administration, on behalf of the revolution.

793
00:44:56,280 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 2: They sent me some notes this morning, Monday today their

794
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,399
Speaker 2: positions on the front line. So obviously those notes will

795
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 2: be a little bit they'll be like twenty four hours

796
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 2: old by the time you hear them. But I still

797
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 2: think it's very important to hear from people who are there.

798
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 2: One we can not from, like someone who's supposed to be

799
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 2: an expert but hasn't set for in Syria in fifteen

800
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:17,879
Speaker 2: years and hasn't really talked to anyone who's Syrian either.

801
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 2: So we'll drop those in after the advertising break here,

802
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,760
Speaker 2: and with that I will say thank you very much, Danny,

803
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 2: thanks for giving us your time, and he'll be really

804
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 2: appreciate all you're insight today.

805
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 5: Thanks very much, James, talking from the Provisional branch after divisions.

806
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 6: We want to share the situation here.

807
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 4: Because you're probably now the regime has fun. You've left

808
00:45:55,520 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 4: the country after a big offensive that started from Italy

809
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 4: that took over quite soon, quite fast, the city of

810
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 4: Aliba and continued moving.

811
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 6: We wanted to explain how is the situation right now

812
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 6: on the ground and also give some insight on the.

813
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 4: Situation of North in Syria and what the media is

814
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 4: not covering of the different events and situations that are

815
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 4: unknowing here. The main thing to remark that this can

816
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 4: be a bit of a confusion confusion interview for those

817
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 4: that are maybe not familiar with the unknowing situation. To

818
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 4: give a short context, we can mention that there are

819
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 4: right now two main conflicts ongoing military conflicts.

820
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 6: One is when you reported they're not so much.

821
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 4: We are talking about the war that HDRS or the

822
00:46:56,200 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 4: offensive that HDS launched against the CERN or a part me.

823
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 4: And the other is the offensive that the SMA and

824
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 4: Turkish proxy forces the writin or the name of that

825
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 4: Syrian National Army, but that they are trained, paid and

826
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 4: supported by the Turkish state. The offensive they have been

827
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 4: launching against Northern Asyria and the Democratic Administration of North

828
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 4: Asyria is the area also known sometimes as Forgiver that

829
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 4: is started as the.

830
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 6: Court Desilberation movement leaving the world.

831
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:40,399
Speaker 4: Of Islamic state and establishing this autonomy's administration. So let's

832
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 4: go shoot it to the first conflict. This offensive of

833
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 4: its theater of the faith of Reaction, but it's Islamis

834
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 4: group direct heritage of.

835
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 6: An austral that was the Syrian.

836
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:59,320
Speaker 4: Branch of the GUIDO that has been governing having somewhat

837
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:02,240
Speaker 4: govern and the strict region in the Region of Europe

838
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:06,879
Speaker 4: in the north west of Syria and was under heavisage

839
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 4: from the region. Process of Syria Army and the twenty

840
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 4: seventh of Nanda Bay count is the offensive.

841
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 6: That led to the collapse of the region.

842
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 4: We could reflect about the regions now on one side,

843
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 4: the Syria appeny was exhausted the two years of war

844
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 4: here in Senia, but especially their main allies and supporters

845
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 4: were also in that situation.

846
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,920
Speaker 6: We were talking mostly about Russia and Iran.

847
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 4: As we currently know, Russia has been in change in

848
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 4: a war in Ukraine for three years almost Iran recently

849
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:49,760
Speaker 4: had been also engaged in supporting the militias in the

850
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 4: conflict against Israel after the virtual occupation that Israel started

851
00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 4: on another year ago. These two conflicts create a situation

852
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 4: that both.

853
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 6: Partners that Russian Iran were not able to support the

854
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:10,280
Speaker 6: army as they within the past.

855
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:15,399
Speaker 4: And this led also to the collapse of the front

856
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 4: lands of the Serra Party, allowing the offensive of HDS

857
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:24,840
Speaker 4: to overrun very fast the defenses in the city of

858
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 4: Alipo and also take in control of the city of Hamma.

859
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 4: These sparked also all the groups that also opposed the

860
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 4: region for a long time to start also the in

861
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:40,800
Speaker 4: action and in southern Syria and the regions of the

862
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:49,320
Speaker 4: Sula and and Couneta, there was also an autonomous military

863
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:53,800
Speaker 4: operation room that started coordinated insurgeons and the vision.

864
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 6: These sparked the collapse of the region.

865
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:00,120
Speaker 4: A lot of soldiers were defect in their positions and

866
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 4: finally the different military groups leaving the offensive.

867
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 6: To the mass Post.

868
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:13,280
Speaker 4: This was an offensive that was really not very builded

869
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,320
Speaker 4: in the sense of a lot of the similar party

870
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 4: souldiers who were.

871
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 6: Just leaving their positions and running away.

872
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 4: And offensive was able to do advance very fast, very easily.

873
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:26,800
Speaker 6: Right now.

874
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 4: The offensive led to the transition that we are seeing

875
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 4: in the mass Post, where the leader of HDS.

876
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 6: Had been doing really.

877
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 4: Public speeches and the carrying the trium of the revolution,

878
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 4: trying to harvest.

879
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:54,839
Speaker 6: And the revolutionary spirit of the twenty eleven for their.

880
00:50:54,000 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 4: Own benefit, and they imposed or composed a traditional government

881
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:06,720
Speaker 4: that is from exclusively by like members connected to aligned

882
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:11,320
Speaker 4: to HDS. Could be good to discuss more about HDS,

883
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 4: but maybe it's not the focus of.

884
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 6: Our interview right now. Just mentioned that the authoritarian.

885
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 4: Government in Egypt has been also really criticized by local

886
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 4: population organizing protest against it and right now running this

887
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 4: interim government, they are already making proposals for like a

888
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 4: morality police, is amy courts.

889
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 6: So I don't know how much this comparison has been

890
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 6: really shared. That clearly what we saw in Afhanistan with Taliban.

891
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 4: Taking over the state destructors is probably a good guide

892
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:56,720
Speaker 4: to understand what could be happening in Syria if HBO

893
00:51:56,840 --> 00:52:00,400
Speaker 4: states control of the the state as it's.

894
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:00,720
Speaker 6: To be happening.

895
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 4: So this is one of the confident going that is

896
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:07,840
Speaker 4: widely reported. The only one maybe is not so much reported.

897
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:12,439
Speaker 4: We see how the Turkish has been for a long

898
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 4: time to bested, has been for a long time and

899
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:22,280
Speaker 4: attacking the vision of that Norway Syria, especially the Cooltish areas, and.

900
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 6: This is connected not to their war against the.

901
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 4: Condliberation movement that has been known for more than forty

902
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:32,360
Speaker 4: years and the last chapter of US started in coordination

903
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 4: with this offensive of Hds where the Appropi forces and

904
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:43,319
Speaker 4: started to attack, mainly the region of Takifact that was

905
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 4: an area where a lot of the refugees from a

906
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:51,480
Speaker 4: friend were living. A frin was a region that was

907
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 4: a ray occupied by thirty in twenty eighteen and a

908
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:57,719
Speaker 4: lot of the people from the city was displaced and

909
00:52:57,840 --> 00:52:59,240
Speaker 4: living in refuge.

910
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,759
Speaker 6: Avants in the in the region of.

911
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 4: Hinda and the civil Tetrifact, and these Turkish pecty forces

912
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 4: attacked and conquered that vision, forcing all these people that

913
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 4: already had to leave their homes more than five years

914
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 4: ago two thousand eighteen. Yeah, so forcing them to flee

915
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:26,759
Speaker 4: once again. A lot of these people was trapped in

916
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:34,600
Speaker 4: a caroline that suffered brutal grades attacks, kidnapping, ransoms like

917
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:38,840
Speaker 4: it has been like a really terrible experience for a

918
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:43,360
Speaker 4: lot of people that was trying to flee the offensive

919
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 4: of the Turkish practy forces. And most of them are

920
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 4: now arriving to do bad. Time to write to the

921
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:53,760
Speaker 4: visions of the self administration when where they are founding

922
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 4: and they can find shelter and for those willing to

923
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 4: help with the mention that Hava Shirt is the humanitary

924
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 4: organization one of the biggest humanitarior organizations working in other

925
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 4: Syria and has been providing tans and fought and blankage

926
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 4: and everything they can to support all these people that

927
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 4: is arriving on these areas.

928
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 6: So those willing to support.

929
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:22,239
Speaker 4: Economically and the humanical and crisis that we are experiencing,

930
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 4: they can easily.

931
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 6: Find the right side and the Banga Kama.

932
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 4: Favasa to donate to them to support all these people

933
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 4: that went again, those in their homes that the offensive

934
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 4: didn't stop on An Shaffa and the SMA continued their

935
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:45,400
Speaker 4: attacks and took over the city of man Ma gerally

936
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 4: right now and this was a really heavy classis that

937
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:55,479
Speaker 4: it was a really serious military conflict that has been

938
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 4: totally supported by Turkish artillery.

939
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:01,839
Speaker 6: And air force. We are talking about.

940
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:06,840
Speaker 4: Drones sitting different positions and even airplanes.

941
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:09,840
Speaker 6: That of course nature air force have been.

942
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:13,960
Speaker 4: Bombing positions of the Cerum democratic forces, allowing.

943
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:18,439
Speaker 6: These different is on groups that part of.

944
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:22,400
Speaker 4: This coalition of the SMA, these poklish pactic forces to

945
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:26,320
Speaker 4: control of the city. At the moment, there is already

946
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:33,720
Speaker 4: several days that manage this city have been organizing protests

947
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:36,880
Speaker 4: and even in general strike that started yesterday and in

948
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 4: the occupation because these groups that occupy the city are

949
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:47,760
Speaker 4: looting and even killing local populations in a really terrible situation.

950
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 4: Of this experience in the local people living in Manage,

951
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 4: and they are willing to continue. They have been threatening

952
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 4: the city of Colony, the symbol of resists terms of

953
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:05,400
Speaker 4: the visual revolution against the designed state and the straits

954
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 4: and the city are not just the bombings of the

955
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:12,319
Speaker 4: top air force and artillery, but also a lot of

956
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 4: military personal of the Turkish Prepsy forces gathering on the

957
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:22,360
Speaker 4: bridge that connects the divisions.

958
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 6: Of man Beach and Commanding and all across the air

959
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:26,279
Speaker 6: for this river.

960
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 4: So this war is not so reported that it's been

961
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 4: really both times against the self administration in Northeastyria. We

962
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 4: are trying to report and update about the situation. We

963
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 4: also published two studments to to call out attention for

964
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:53,840
Speaker 4: comrade what is ongoing here and maybe also.

965
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:57,000
Speaker 6: Talk a bit about the work that we have been

966
00:56:57,040 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 6: doing on the ground.

967
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:04,240
Speaker 4: We need to remark that this offensive of the Mambage

968
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:08,240
Speaker 4: and now districts and Colony have not been the only adults.

969
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:10,279
Speaker 6: Of the Turkish army and the party forces and.

970
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:15,680
Speaker 4: The build all around the Street that they occupied in

971
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 4: twenty eighteen and two thousand nineteen. In the areas around

972
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:23,960
Speaker 4: the city of Sylvania and Anisa next to the border

973
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 4: with Tricky also host a lot of islam As groups

974
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 4: that are part of this Turkish Party coalition and they

975
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 4: have been intensively bounding the areas and their surroundings and

976
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 4: there have been quiet widespread forms. This ze group togethering

977
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 4: forces to continue their results on the self administration of

978
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 4: Nordestria and the ward of the Syrian Democratic Forces. We

979
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 4: from the Casinosis, we have been working in the medical capacity,

980
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 4: provide i think materials for the medical points in the

981
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 4: in the fundance and being present in the foundlands together

982
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 4: with the Syrian Democratic Forces in case that a new

983
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:16,600
Speaker 4: invasion and is happening right now, the bombings are hitting.

984
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 6: Different areas and it has been really intense in the

985
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 6: last days.

986
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 4: The Syrian Democratic Forces are in maximilar and especially there

987
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 4: is an important call in solidarity with the city of Covany,

988
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 4: a symbol of resistance that is small ones again under threat.

989
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 4: We have been seen as demonstrations are around the world

990
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 4: in solebarity with like the revolutions here and this has

991
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 4: been also bringing lots motivation to continue the resistance underground.

992
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 4: Right now, these situations of the instability and political tradition

993
00:58:58,520 --> 00:59:02,520
Speaker 4: is still plain in ways that are difficult to predict.

994
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 6: We can see how the self administration has been sending political.

995
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:11,080
Speaker 4: Realizations and to the masters to never shad with this

996
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 4: new provisional government with the attempt to reach autonomy for

997
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:21,160
Speaker 4: the region that connects with the ideas of democratic conferenism,

998
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 4: the DEAs of democratic confulism. Don't expect to run a

999
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:29,760
Speaker 4: state institutions.

1000
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 6: Because we don't want to live.

1001
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 4: In a society that is ruled by a state, and

1002
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 4: are calling for tums economy in a lot of governments

1003
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 4: where that the different communities can live together, colleges together,

1004
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 4: administering their social forms together, and also with their defense.

1005
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 4: We'll see how the democratic forces is at a military

1006
00:59:57,040 --> 01:00:01,960
Speaker 4: coalition of different local military forces that it's blade on

1007
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 4: the principles of self defense. Maybe to give a bit

1008
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 4: of context also of what we have been doing here

1009
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 4: for several years that our organization has been operating in

1010
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 4: another Syria.

1011
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 6: As anarchists. We can hear in.

1012
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 4: Solidarity international society with this revolution because their political values.

1013
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:29,120
Speaker 6: And their political project is really close to our ideas.

1014
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:35,120
Speaker 4: We see big similarities with the ideas of libertarian socialism

1015
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:39,000
Speaker 4: and social ecology and thinkers and model Bootin have been

1016
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 4: a big inspiration for unvers In, leader of the Court

1017
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 4: Desirition movement that has been proposing this political friend called

1018
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:55,320
Speaker 4: democratic confromism, where especially with the principles of one liberation,

1019
01:00:55,640 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 4: social ecology and studios andocracy has been political campus of

1020
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 4: the revolution here.

1021
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:07,000
Speaker 6: Building autonomy in the.

1022
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:12,520
Speaker 4: Different regions has been also a very important element to

1023
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 4: develop the project, and especially during the war and the

1024
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:21,800
Speaker 4: Islamic State, as soon as the different territories were liberated,

1025
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:26,920
Speaker 4: there was a big emphasis on creating local councils civilian

1026
01:01:27,120 --> 01:01:30,320
Speaker 4: and military councils both that.

1027
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 6: Around their own affairs.

1028
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 4: This is very interesting from anarchists perspective not to see

1029
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:42,720
Speaker 4: how one of the main political points is these promotings

1030
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:46,880
Speaker 4: of defense and creating a military force that is not

1031
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:51,360
Speaker 4: based on a centralized monopoly of balance, but on allowing

1032
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 4: every community to take care of their own defense and

1033
01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:55,960
Speaker 4: their own affairs.

1034
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:58,600
Speaker 6: This is a really inspiring.

1035
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:01,920
Speaker 4: Element that for us as I mean also a really

1036
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 4: extraordinary learning process.

1037
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:05,600
Speaker 6: Being part of a revolution.

1038
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:10,560
Speaker 4: Leaving day to day the developments that are happening here

1039
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:15,240
Speaker 4: and seeing what doesn't mean to make a revolution because

1040
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 4: in something that sometimes we anarchists look back often in

1041
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:23,040
Speaker 4: at the epic times of like Spain on thirty six

1042
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:26,960
Speaker 4: Ukraine in the twenties to see examples of like an

1043
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:28,320
Speaker 4: anarchist revolution.

1044
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 6: And this is something that today is happening here.

1045
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 4: Good.

1046
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:36,480
Speaker 6: This tant has been for a long time leaving a

1047
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:38,120
Speaker 6: resistance against.

1048
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:41,200
Speaker 4: The logic of national states, especially in turky but we

1049
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 4: saw how it has been funding in Syria where like

1050
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 4: this movement found the space to put in practice these

1051
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:53,600
Speaker 4: ideas and to develop the revolutionary society that has been

1052
01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:57,480
Speaker 4: theorized for a long time. So even if we cannot

1053
01:02:57,480 --> 01:03:01,080
Speaker 4: save Vergialism an anarchist region can say how at his

1054
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 4: principles inspired the project and that it's been developed here

1055
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:11,680
Speaker 4: and implemented. This is a really an important school. It

1056
01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:14,720
Speaker 4: brings a lot of lections of the big challenges of

1057
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 4: reorganizing a society with principles of libertarian socialism. It is

1058
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 4: especially complicated here because of external reasons like the situation

1059
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:30,520
Speaker 4: of the Marble, the constant threat of the Tutis army,

1060
01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 4: and this is something that for sure we can point

1061
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 4: out as like, well, it's very difficult to make a

1062
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 4: revolution with these factors. But this is also a lesson

1063
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:44,040
Speaker 4: that making a revolution will always be.

1064
01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:47,760
Speaker 6: Difficult, and we always have really big.

1065
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:51,520
Speaker 4: Factors that make the situation very difficult. If making a

1066
01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:55,440
Speaker 4: revolution would be easy, we would already have done it.

1067
01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:59,120
Speaker 4: So of course it's something that brings a lot of difficulties,

1068
01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:02,080
Speaker 4: a lot of compleation, and a lot of challenges and

1069
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:06,080
Speaker 4: use here day to day living what it means to

1070
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:09,080
Speaker 4: build their evolutionary society, a lot of a lot of

1071
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 4: equations from the reflections that we also able to translate

1072
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:15,000
Speaker 4: and to reflect together with.

1073
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:18,960
Speaker 6: The artist movements from around the world, to learn family.

1074
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:23,960
Speaker 7: Experience, and to be able to analyze together and reflect

1075
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 7: and discuss together of what it means to build anarchism

1076
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:32,400
Speaker 7: in the twenty first century, what it means to build

1077
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:34,840
Speaker 7: libertarian socialism nowadays.

1078
01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:38,360
Speaker 6: In the current society with all the different elements that

1079
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:42,120
Speaker 6: we see, and of course in.

1080
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:46,520
Speaker 4: The military council division going, it can seem maybe sometimes

1081
01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 4: far away of community in western countries, but I think

1082
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:54,520
Speaker 4: it's important to remember that revolution and war have been

1083
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 4: always to site. At the same time, it's in these

1084
01:04:59,720 --> 01:05:04,720
Speaker 4: mode of instability of war where the logic and the

1085
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:10,840
Speaker 4: established school of national states is more weak, because we

1086
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:11,800
Speaker 4: can actually see.

1087
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:13,640
Speaker 6: Nine other times in another moment or.

1088
01:05:13,640 --> 01:05:17,560
Speaker 4: Even in other places nowadays, what is happening for example,

1089
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:20,520
Speaker 4: and there now what is happening in the different areas

1090
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:23,960
Speaker 4: where the logic of a national state has been questioned,

1091
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 4: creates in the stability to create a situation where the

1092
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:30,920
Speaker 4: different actors will push to take control.

1093
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:35,960
Speaker 6: And we know that often those actors will be met by.

1094
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:40,200
Speaker 4: A nationalism and forces mentality with an authoritarian logic to

1095
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:46,040
Speaker 4: just impose their ideas and their aims by force. And

1096
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:49,560
Speaker 4: it's very important that we think and we reflect and

1097
01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 4: reorganize force that is able to react to that situation

1098
01:05:55,600 --> 01:06:00,560
Speaker 4: because a traitarian and hierarchic miter structures.

1099
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:01,920
Speaker 6: Are quite false.

1100
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:06,120
Speaker 4: To react, we as anarchists, we need time to organize

1101
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 4: arizon pay because our structures.

1102
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:13,640
Speaker 6: Function based us on trust also make knowing each other

1103
01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:17,919
Speaker 6: and even if I really believe that they are much

1104
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:19,480
Speaker 6: more solid and much more.

1105
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:23,400
Speaker 4: Reliable in a long term, in a short term we

1106
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:24,280
Speaker 4: can face.

1107
01:06:24,120 --> 01:06:27,280
Speaker 6: Big, big challenge. So it's important.

1108
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:30,800
Speaker 4: To see fascism is as with advancing all around the world,

1109
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:35,360
Speaker 4: and we can see how the intentions are growing.

1110
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:38,040
Speaker 6: So maybe this isn't.

1111
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:41,640
Speaker 4: As a call min to learn from the lessons here,

1112
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:45,840
Speaker 4: to learn from how the Kurdish movement have been working

1113
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:50,360
Speaker 4: and preparing for decades and what happened in Syria made

1114
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:56,120
Speaker 4: possible for the revolutionary movement to put the cards on

1115
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:58,960
Speaker 4: the table, to organize together with the people and to

1116
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:04,920
Speaker 4: defend their people and their communities, building these rebuffering process

1117
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:09,080
Speaker 4: that nowadays that so many people have been like taking

1118
01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:10,280
Speaker 4: inspiration from.

1119
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:15,120
Speaker 6: So yeah, probably this is a bit confusing and maybe

1120
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:16,440
Speaker 6: not so clearent.

1121
01:07:17,280 --> 01:07:22,040
Speaker 4: Sorry, we have been quiet some hours. We've had several

1122
01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:26,280
Speaker 4: weeks that have been extremely challenging with really few hours

1123
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:30,080
Speaker 4: of sleep. But I hope this is more or less clear,

1124
01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:33,960
Speaker 4: and this is doing is something that it's not so

1125
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:41,920
Speaker 4: understandable and always welcome new and new questions and helping answer,

1126
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:44,800
Speaker 4: answer and share more perspective.

1127
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:49,560
Speaker 6: We have been answer writing some statements and we are

1128
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:53,040
Speaker 6: answer trying to answer all.

1129
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:57,360
Speaker 4: Those people interested in learning more about the situation here

1130
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:00,360
Speaker 4: and in ways to support the revenue.

1131
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 1: It could happen. Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

1132
01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:09,680
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website.

1133
01:08:09,800 --> 01:08:13,400
Speaker 1: Folzonmedia dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1134
01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:17,000
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

1135
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:19,400
Speaker 1: now find sources for it could happen here, listed directly

1136
01:08:19,400 --> 01:08:20,680
Speaker 1: in episode descriptions.

1137
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:21,719
Speaker 6: Thanks for listening,