Speaker 1: George was pretty much my brother. I mean, if I
Speaker 1: was ever going to have anybody I considered brother, it
Speaker 1: would have been him. How would you describe him? Hard working,
Speaker 1: down to hers boy, do anything in the world for anybody.
Speaker 1: If I was broke down three states over at two
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning, I could call him. He's about
Speaker 1: the only one that I miss is George Trump. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: So how did George get wrapped up into this? Well,
Speaker 1: since they was young, they was beat into his head
Speaker 1: that he always had to take care of his little brother,
Speaker 1: no matter what. Can't let nobody heard his little brother
Speaker 1: always had to take his little brother's side, no matter what.
Speaker 1: And I think I'd had something to do with it.
Speaker 1: This is the Piketon Massacre. Returned to Pike County season three,
Speaker 1: episode five, One Eyed Wolf. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television
Speaker 1: producer at KATI Studios with Stephanie Ledeger and Jeff Shane.
Speaker 1: George Wagner is a waiting trial in Pike County for
Speaker 1: his involvement in the murders of the Roden family. He's
Speaker 1: pleaded not guilty after two seasons of reporting details of
Speaker 1: what allegedly went down on the night of April twenty first,
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen have slowly come into focus, but we still
Speaker 1: know little about the eldest son of the Wagner clan,
Speaker 1: George Wagner. In this episode, we talked to the people
Speaker 1: who knew George the best and delve into why many
Speaker 1: are still trying to comprehend his potential involvement in the
Speaker 1: piked of Nassacre. In May of twenty seventeen, thirteen months
Speaker 1: after the murders, investigators sent a swat team to the
Speaker 1: Wagner's property to search for evidence. Around that time, George
Speaker 1: changed his social media profile picture and an online group
Speaker 1: picked it up immediately, screenshot at it and posted it.
Speaker 1: Here's an anonymous Wagner and Roden family source. It's crazy.
Speaker 1: I don't know what all is out. It's not out.
Speaker 1: But when all this went down, he had posted what
Speaker 1: is it called your profile picture of a wolf that
Speaker 1: had a chart in one eye. And if you get
Speaker 1: on there and read that Angela is on there and
Speaker 1: tell him he needs to delete it, you know you
Speaker 1: shouldn't be doing that. And then everybody in this group
Speaker 1: that I'm in was like, oh, that's like pointing to
Speaker 1: him having shot Kenny, and Angela commented on it really
Speaker 1: questioned you Mark. Everybody in his Facebook group was like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, he's the one who shot Kenny. Kenneth Roden,
Speaker 1: brother of patriarch Chris Roden Senior, was the eighth and
Speaker 1: final victim to be discovered. This was five hours after
Speaker 1: Bobby Joe Manley discovered the first bodies and called nine
Speaker 1: one one, I need it's been about to close to
Speaker 1: seven nine nine. Okay. This is family member Donald Stone
Speaker 1: calling from Kenneth's home, seven miles away from the other
Speaker 1: crime scenes all this stuff. It's going to news. I
Speaker 1: just found just found Martezans was again shot and I
Speaker 1: don't know what his address is. Hanting out of the house.
Speaker 1: I'm out of the house right now. Is just winning
Speaker 1: or nighting Stone found Kenneth lying in his bed, face up,
Speaker 1: covered in blood. He had dollar bills strewn over the
Speaker 1: lower half of his body. He was the only victim
Speaker 1: killed with a single gunshot wound to the head, specifically
Speaker 1: through his right eye. This is like the picture of
Speaker 1: the wolf and George's profile that piqued people's interest online.
Speaker 1: Here's Stephanie and Jeff. It came to our attention that
Speaker 1: in October of twenty eighteen, about a month before the
Speaker 1: Wagners were arrested, George Wagner changed his profile picture to
Speaker 1: a cartoon wolf that has a scar over its right eye,
Speaker 1: and on that picture, his mother, Angela Wagner, commented, really,
Speaker 1: we can only assume this picture represents Kenneth Roden, who
Speaker 1: was shot in the right eye, and that George Wagner
Speaker 1: was somehow bragging or making a callback to the way
Speaker 1: Kenneth Rodan was murdered. We do also know that Kenneth
Speaker 1: Roden was really the only victim who was shot just
Speaker 1: once in their right eye, and the significance of that
Speaker 1: might be tied to this photo. It feels like a
Speaker 1: stretch a little bit, to be honest. So he posted
Speaker 1: this on October fourth, twenty eighteen, and a few weeks
Speaker 1: prior to that, on September nineteenth, twenty eighteen, is when
Speaker 1: the autopsy notes were released and everyone found out that
Speaker 1: Kenneth was shot in the right eye. And so it
Speaker 1: seems like a bit of a coincidence that we as
Speaker 1: the public, find out that Kenneth Roden was shot in
Speaker 1: the right eye, and then George Wagner posts this photo
Speaker 1: of a wolf scar over its right eye, and that
Speaker 1: maybe wouldn't be connected. But then if it wasn't, why
Speaker 1: would Angela make that comment? Because if it's just a
Speaker 1: picture of a wolf, like, what does his mom care
Speaker 1: what he posts on Facebook? And it doesn't have this
Speaker 1: kind of deeper meaning. So much has been made about
Speaker 1: this online and in various different Facebook groups. It could
Speaker 1: really just be a complete coincidence. It could, but we
Speaker 1: can only assume what the Wagners did. I think it's
Speaker 1: fair to scrutinize all of their behavior prior to the
Speaker 1: arrests and following the murders. What would be the significance
Speaker 1: of that. Either he's bragging or is he giving a
Speaker 1: signal to someone else? What is the connective tissue there?
Speaker 1: The way I read into it is that he's bragging
Speaker 1: about the murders. Why would he do that? We do
Speaker 1: know they get arrested one month later. Many people in
Speaker 1: the area were saying that the Wagoners were expecting to
Speaker 1: be arrested at any moment, And it really does make
Speaker 1: you wonder why they were so busy on social media
Speaker 1: in the first place. If you feared that you were
Speaker 1: going to be arrested, why would you possibly go on
Speaker 1: social media? Period. The way it was presented to me
Speaker 1: was that it was more of a matter of fact
Speaker 1: that the police think we're tied up in this, we're
Speaker 1: going to get arrested, but we're going to get out
Speaker 1: because we're innocent. It's just a formality. And so the
Speaker 1: way I think, at least they were portraying themselves to
Speaker 1: their friends and family was that they were very confident
Speaker 1: about their innocence and all of this, and that they
Speaker 1: would not be roped into it too much. Jake was
Speaker 1: the one that literally said he shot five people or
Speaker 1: killed five people in shot six and I don't know,
Speaker 1: I mean, who was the other person? Well anything, I
Speaker 1: think Billy, you know, would have been the crazy one
Speaker 1: to do something, because Billy has always come up with
Speaker 1: these crazy schemes. Billy I would not put past to
Speaker 1: do anything. I feel like he would be at a
Speaker 1: gas station and shoot somebody. I probably George would throw
Speaker 1: up if he shot somebody, but I don't know. I
Speaker 1: don't know. Last season, it seems like the only thing
Speaker 1: we heard about George Wagner was that he was an
Speaker 1: abusive husband and all around a pretty bad guy. But
Speaker 1: as the court proceedings have kind of continued, we've talked
Speaker 1: to more and more people who were close with George
Speaker 1: Wagner and have kind of told us the opposite of
Speaker 1: what we've always heard. Everyone we've spoken to as of
Speaker 1: late has said nothing but nice things about him, basically
Speaker 1: that he was this great guy and they are shocked
Speaker 1: that he was involved in this murder. No one seems
Speaker 1: to have a hard time imagining that Billy, Jake, or
Speaker 1: even Angela could have planned, murdered and covered up crime.
Speaker 1: But people have a really hard time wrapping their head
Speaker 1: around George Wagner being involved, which is surprising to me
Speaker 1: because we did hear about how terribly he treated his
Speaker 1: wife when they all lived with his mother, Angela Wagner,
Speaker 1: and the whole accused family mistreated her. This season, yeah,
Speaker 1: we've heard quite the opposite. All we really have so
Speaker 1: far is Jake's plea deal, where he has testified that
Speaker 1: that George was only their last minute and really was
Speaker 1: only there to protect Jake from their father, which you know,
Speaker 1: we're still trying to unpack what that actually means. So
Speaker 1: let's play that out really quickly. Just this scenario, as
Speaker 1: we maybe know it right now, according to all of
Speaker 1: these plea agreements, Jake, who has admitted to five killings,
Speaker 1: and Dad Billy Wagner they were the ones that were
Speaker 1: going to go out and do all of the killings.
Speaker 1: So that's five that Jake was going to do or
Speaker 1: has admitted to, leaving the remaining three maybe done by Billy.
Speaker 1: Yet at the very last minute, George, the oldest brother,
Speaker 1: to protect his younger brother, decides to go along with them,
Speaker 1: even though he's been a part of the planning, he
Speaker 1: wasn't intending ongoing And now, according to Angela Wagner, she
Speaker 1: stayed behind to babysit. So now George tags along. What
Speaker 1: does that mean? Is he equally responsible? Is he not
Speaker 1: responsible at all? He was a part of all the planning,
Speaker 1: so maybe he wasn't one of the trigger pullers. But
Speaker 1: it also speaks to the larger question of why would
Speaker 1: George Wagner think their father was going to kill or
Speaker 1: harm Jake Wagner. It's certainly a good question, and I
Speaker 1: wonder if George's defense will bring that up, because I
Speaker 1: think in the eyes of the law, if you plan
Speaker 1: a murder and you're at the murder, you're pretty culpable
Speaker 1: in the crime, and so whether you're there to protect
Speaker 1: someone else or not, we'll see if that matters and
Speaker 1: how much that will play out in his upcoming trial.
Speaker 1: If we're just going to play along with this version
Speaker 1: of a tale, if George Wagner was just tagging along
Speaker 1: to protect Jake Wagner from their father, Billy Wagner, go
Speaker 1: with me here for one quick second, that would imply
Speaker 1: that Billy Wagner dad was allegedly going to kill or
Speaker 1: harm Jake Wagner. Why would he do that? Like, why
Speaker 1: would George have to protect Jake from their dad? And
Speaker 1: I guess the only thing that would sort of make
Speaker 1: sense is because maybe Billy Wagner was going to kill
Speaker 1: Jake Wagner just so there was nobody left to tournament. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there would have been one less witness. And as we
Speaker 1: know the kind of how the dynamics of the family were,
Speaker 1: Jake and Angela Wagner were very close, and Billy and
Speaker 1: George Wagner were very close. So perhaps George felt that
Speaker 1: if he went he could maybe talk some sense for
Speaker 1: lack of a better term, into his dad and protect
Speaker 1: Jake at the same time. It's certainly complicated. It's important
Speaker 1: to note that both George and Billy Wagner have pleaded
Speaker 1: not guilty on all counts and have not yet had
Speaker 1: their day in court. So everything we're talking about is
Speaker 1: just Jake and Angela Wagner's version of events. Otherwise the
Speaker 1: prosecution would not allow their version of events to be, frankly,
Speaker 1: the foundation of their upcoming trials. Yeah, certainly the prosecution
Speaker 1: believes Jake and Angela's version of how things went down
Speaker 1: that night. But it's just important to note that Billy
Speaker 1: and George are disputing all this, and it's not just
Speaker 1: us stuff who are trying to unpack this. The people
Speaker 1: who were close with the Wagner family are still kind
Speaker 1: of wrapping their head around all of this, particularly Chris Newcome, who,
Speaker 1: as we know as Angela Wagner's half brother, was very
Speaker 1: close with George and in talking to him numerous times.
Speaker 1: He's still really grappling with this whole situation and still
Speaker 1: trying to come to terms with George Wagner's possible involvement.
Speaker 1: And it's been six years since this whole thing happened.
Speaker 1: Chris was born when his older half sister, Angela was
Speaker 1: twenty the age gap kept the two from growing close,
Speaker 1: but Chris was drawn to her boys, specifically to George.
Speaker 1: I mean, help me in my nephews. We grew up
Speaker 1: more like brothers than we did in huncle and nephews.
Speaker 1: I'm two and a half years older than Jake, in
Speaker 1: a year and a half older than George. I was
Speaker 1: always closer to George than I was with Jake. Man George,
Speaker 1: we'd always go hunting, fishing, camping. He always wanted to
Speaker 1: have his own hunting show. Do you know you wanted
Speaker 1: to go on TV Hunti's monster deer and turkey and
Speaker 1: elk and stuff like it. I mean he loved hunting
Speaker 1: that much. Sammy Joe spoke with us earlier in the
Speaker 1: season about both the Rodin and Wagner families. She dated
Speaker 1: Frankie Rodin from seventh to ninth grade and was involved
Speaker 1: with Jake Wagner at times, but she also had a
Speaker 1: crush on George. I probably shouldn't say this, but Jake
Speaker 1: we pretty much stopped talking because I think Angela thought
Speaker 1: I was trying to get Jake to break up with Hannah,
Speaker 1: and that's not what it was. Because I didn't want Jake.
Speaker 1: I wanted George. What did you like A bad George?
Speaker 1: Just his goofiness. Honestly, George, he's a big teddy bear. Really.
Speaker 1: I remember a time I got a hold of George
Speaker 1: and I told him I was like, I can't afford Christmas.
Speaker 1: I don't know what to do. And he goes meet
Speaker 1: me at the gas station. He gave me money to
Speaker 1: pay my electric bill and bought my daughter present. Wow,
Speaker 1: so he was like your Santa Claus. Yeah, Like you
Speaker 1: broke my heart when I found out he was married
Speaker 1: the first time. And did you ever confess to George
Speaker 1: that you kind of liked him? Nope, Now he'll never know.
Speaker 1: He was just a nice guy, good to be around,
Speaker 1: you know, didn't really talk too much, but he was
Speaker 1: definitely a nice person. Howard grew up with the Wagners
Speaker 1: and lived near them in both Ohio and Alaska. I
Speaker 1: just remember my sister. I'll keep her name out of him,
Speaker 1: but she kind of had a crush on George and
Speaker 1: she would always talking to him on Facebook and things
Speaker 1: like that. It's very funny because you're the second person
Speaker 1: today who has made mention of a family member, specifically
Speaker 1: his sister who kind of loved George. From a distance
Speaker 1: and still have the nicest, kindest things to say of him.
Speaker 1: If I had a daughter and he were hurried, that's
Speaker 1: who I would want my daughter nating. He was just
Speaker 1: a great guy. He was super nice, like very friendly.
Speaker 1: Jake cab the other hair was kind of secluded, kind
Speaker 1: of recluse, but George was just nice, like all around
Speaker 1: a nice guy. We've been able to speak with a
Speaker 1: whole host of new family members and friends this season. Patricia,
Speaker 1: you may recall, is one of them. I think God
Speaker 1: was no longer with them. Patricia is the mother of
Speaker 1: George's ex wife, Tabitha. Tabitha was bullied into relinquishing control
Speaker 1: of her child with George by Angela Wagner. The situation
Speaker 1: was eerily similar to the custody battle between Hanname Rodin
Speaker 1: and Jake Wagner that was happening before the massacre. I
Speaker 1: think the only reason that save taps Us from going
Speaker 1: through this same thing was the fact that she didn't
Speaker 1: fight for custody of honor. They had him already, so
Speaker 1: cause him harm to Dabby with them done him any good.
Speaker 1: Patricia claims Angela pulled all the strings within the Wagner
Speaker 1: clan I know the demeanor of Angelis. She tries to
Speaker 1: be the loving, cheering mother. But if you've seen the
Speaker 1: side of Angelis that I've seen, and the way she
Speaker 1: holds your demeanor around me, you could tell that she
Speaker 1: was all fake. Dabby wasn't afraid of George, Danna wasn't
Speaker 1: afraid of Jake. They were only afraid of Angelas Sammy
Speaker 1: Joe saw firsthand how Angela exerted control over her. She
Speaker 1: was just really intimidating. Normally growing up, I was always
Speaker 1: with Jake, and then as I got older, the contact
Speaker 1: changed from Jake to George because Jake became a struck up.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of nice, not so hateful words,
Speaker 1: but he became Angela. Angela took over Tabitha's life as well.
Speaker 1: For two years, she lived with them and was not
Speaker 1: allowed to have any contact with me once whoever, because
Speaker 1: Angela didn't want her to. They even went as far
Speaker 1: as taken tabtha cell phone from her because she was
Speaker 1: texting me. Angela knows that Tabeth has always been close
Speaker 1: to every one of her sisters, and every one of
Speaker 1: them could have talked to her out it. Every one
Speaker 1: of them could have talked Tabbie out of there, and
Speaker 1: Angela knew that we're going to take a break. We'll
Speaker 1: be back in a moment. Six years after the murderers,
Speaker 1: Chris Nukeam still finds George's potential involvement in the piked
Speaker 1: and massacre very hard to grasp. I mean, I'd have
Speaker 1: trusted Georgia was my life and that's the guy's down
Speaker 1: the streets on the matter. So how do you wrap
Speaker 1: your head around that feeling like someone who you trust
Speaker 1: your life with is allegedly being a part of something
Speaker 1: where eight people are dad. So you ask me how
Speaker 1: I deal with it? I guess yeah, I get up,
Speaker 1: I do my Chorge, I'll do the work I gotta do.
Speaker 1: I spend time with my family, and I go to bed.
Speaker 1: I get up the next day and do it again.
Speaker 1: I mean I fought for him. I would have never
Speaker 1: in a million years believe they'd ever done anything like it,
Speaker 1: And when it came out, I mean I just they
Speaker 1: made me look like the biggest damn fool were ever
Speaker 1: up there. I kid you not, I don't see him
Speaker 1: doing anything of the sort like, but of course I
Speaker 1: was not there. I don't know what happened. Sammy Joe
Speaker 1: spent time with George after the murders. I asked him.
Speaker 1: I was like, I can't believe this happened. But George
Speaker 1: like shut me out, like he goes, how could we
Speaker 1: do it? There's just something wrong, like he tully shut
Speaker 1: me out, Like I knew sometime was wrong that day
Speaker 1: when we were talking about it, like our Frision trip
Speaker 1: was going good and it got wrong real fuck. We
Speaker 1: spoke to a close friend of George's, who, after the
Speaker 1: interview was done, decided it hit a little too close
Speaker 1: to home and requested their voice not be used at all.
Speaker 1: Here's Stephanie and Jeff recounting the conversation. This young woman,
Speaker 1: who was very close with the Wagner family, recounted to
Speaker 1: us that the morning of November twenty eighteen, the day
Speaker 1: all of the Wagners were arrested, she had actually been
Speaker 1: communicating with both George and Angela, and to her, the
Speaker 1: conversations were rather mundane. They were talking about how their
Speaker 1: days were going, what kind of errands they were running.
Speaker 1: And we know that Jake and George were together at
Speaker 1: the time of their arrests, and they were in their
Speaker 1: truck running errands and that Angela Wagner was dropping her
Speaker 1: grandkids off at school. They also talked about things like Thanksgiving,
Speaker 1: which was coming up in a couple of weeks, and
Speaker 1: within minutes on ending the conversations, this young woman saw
Speaker 1: the news of the arrests, and after the shock of
Speaker 1: the news, her first thoughts were, it had to have
Speaker 1: been Billy and Jake. Angela and George must have been
Speaker 1: covering for them. And again that doesn't make it a
Speaker 1: matter of fact, but she was incredibly surprised and steadfast
Speaker 1: that George and Angela must have been covering for Billy
Speaker 1: and Jake. Yeah, it paints a picture of what that
Speaker 1: day was like, which is very bizarre because you see
Speaker 1: the news footage of Billy getting caught and the bodycam
Speaker 1: footage minutes before that. They were just living their lives,
Speaker 1: helping to get away with murder. Or they were just
Speaker 1: expecting to go through the formality of being arrested, being booked,
Speaker 1: being released on bail, and that this would all go away.
Speaker 1: I think that's what they really believed at this point.
Speaker 1: It doesn't explain why they came back though, So they
Speaker 1: came back to care for Billy, Wagner's ailing father. But
Speaker 1: they didn't really move back. They just came back and
Speaker 1: we're staying in that small house that we ultimately saw recently.
Speaker 1: But they weren't settled in. Were they just coming back
Speaker 1: with the understanding that they were going to get arrested
Speaker 1: and that would blow over really quickly and then they
Speaker 1: could pick up life and go back to normal. According
Speaker 1: to everyone who knew them, that seemed to be their
Speaker 1: frame of mind. Court just wrapped up in Pike County.
Speaker 1: Michelle was there as George Wagner the fourth made an appearance.
Speaker 1: He's been covering the Pike County massacres since it happened
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen. This spring, George Wagner appeared in court
Speaker 1: as part of his pre child hearings. He walked into
Speaker 1: the courtroom unrestrained and dressed in civilian clothes. He's tall,
Speaker 1: so he had to bow his head to hear the
Speaker 1: hush direction of his lawyers before he's at for the hearing.
Speaker 1: So like what happened in court today, Chris, this was
Speaker 1: a revealing day here in the Pike County Courthouse. Captain
Speaker 1: Seth Hegeman, now with the Westchester Police Department, was a
Speaker 1: special agent with the Bureau of Criminal Investigations back in
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, and he was one of the lead investigators
Speaker 1: on the Pike County murders. Now Hegeman spent about two
Speaker 1: and a half hours on the stand testifying. Here's the
Speaker 1: police captain's interpretation of a tattoo that George Wagner got
Speaker 1: just a few months after the murders. Obviously, a skulls
Speaker 1: often used to be associated with death immortality, and then
Speaker 1: eight balls is sometimes thought it a symbol of chance.
Speaker 1: But there also should be noted there were eight victims
Speaker 1: in the Roden homicides, and then he had tattoos of
Speaker 1: aces and eights that are commonly considered the dead man's
Speaker 1: hand and represent death and murder. Here again is Stephanie
Speaker 1: and Jeff. So let's break this down a bit. And
Speaker 1: it's a bit confusing because we were not able to
Speaker 1: obtain the entire hearing courtroom footage and instead have to
Speaker 1: fall back on reporting. And different sources have said different
Speaker 1: things about when George Wagner got this tattoo. Some news
Speaker 1: sources have said it was before the murders and some
Speaker 1: have said after, So it's not totally clear to us,
Speaker 1: which is true. What we do know is that at
Speaker 1: some point George Wagner got a tattoo of a dead
Speaker 1: man's hand. And for those of you who are not
Speaker 1: familiar with poker, a dead man's hand is composed of
Speaker 1: eights and aces. It's called the dead man's hand because
Speaker 1: it's rumored to be the hand of a man named
Speaker 1: wild Bill Hickcock who was holding it when he was
Speaker 1: shot in the back by arrival and because of that
Speaker 1: the hand is now cursed forever. Which again we don't
Speaker 1: know the link. But if we're going to analyze all
Speaker 1: of the behavior of the Wagner's pre and post murder,
Speaker 1: it certainly seems like it's possible that George Wagner knows
Speaker 1: this folklore story and decided to get a tattoo because
Speaker 1: he himself shot the Rodents. Much has been made online
Speaker 1: about their various tattoos and Facebook postings, and yes, you
Speaker 1: can read into them for sure. For example, it's speculated
Speaker 1: that the eight ball connects the eight members of the
Speaker 1: Rodent family. That's possible, it also could be a big stretch.
Speaker 1: George Wagner's trial is tentatively set to begin two months
Speaker 1: from now, based on a recent hearing, the prosecution's case
Speaker 1: is pushing forward with the fundamental argument that the murders
Speaker 1: were a family affair, with George being complicit in the crimes.
Speaker 1: They functioned as one unit at all times. Like I said,
Speaker 1: they worked together, they homeschooled together. This is demonstrated by factors,
Speaker 1: including that limited two that are residing together in a varying,
Speaker 1: insular manner in their entire lives, even while married as adults.
Speaker 1: It establishes this conspiracy, It establishes the enterprise. The all
Speaker 1: of this information goes together to show the they were
Speaker 1: again that group think, the group action. Not one of
Speaker 1: them turned back from these crimes. They all knew what
Speaker 1: was going to happen that night. They all had their
Speaker 1: own roles. The possible depths of George's allegiance to his
Speaker 1: family was on full display. On April twenty eight, twenty sixteen,
Speaker 1: on a warm day in South Shore, Kentucky. We received
Speaker 1: a picture from a listener that was used in the
Speaker 1: Cincinnati Enquirer, and while we can't be a hundred percent cer,
Speaker 1: it appears to have Billy, George and Jake Wagner in it.
Speaker 1: It was taken at the funeral of Gary Rowden. Also,
Speaker 1: I think it's worth noting, Jeff that we actually were
Speaker 1: tipped off to this photograph by a listener. We hadn't
Speaker 1: seen it before, And when you look at it, it's
Speaker 1: pretty staggering because it's all three Wagner accused men, and
Speaker 1: you can't really see their expressions too too closely, but
Speaker 1: you can just see they're clearly speaking to somebody, and
Speaker 1: it just makes you wonder what could they possibly be
Speaker 1: talking about, what could possibly be going on in their heads. Collectively,
Speaker 1: they also have to look the people in the eye,
Speaker 1: and the family members in the eye of the people
Speaker 1: that they allegedly murdered. You know, everyone is there grieving.
Speaker 1: The whole town is there grieving, and you know full
Speaker 1: well that you're at the exact same place that you
Speaker 1: caused all of that pain for everyone. Yeah. What's so
Speaker 1: striking to me that is, if indeed these are the
Speaker 1: Wagner men attending Gary Roden's funeral, just how performative the
Speaker 1: whole thing must have been. They went there as this
Speaker 1: grieving family supporting their friends and sort of in laws.
Speaker 1: I mean, the Wagners and the Rodents were sort of
Speaker 1: in laws to one another, and so to have to
Speaker 1: go there and put on this show of a grieving
Speaker 1: family is pretty hard to wrap your head around. Kind
Speaker 1: of relevant here too. George Wagner's whole defense is that
Speaker 1: he had nothing to do with this. Yet here we
Speaker 1: see the family as they stand together at the funeral
Speaker 1: of a man that was allegedly murdered by at least
Speaker 1: some of them. So George was in the mix, and
Speaker 1: we've heard some very checkered things about him, certainly how
Speaker 1: he handled his own ex wife and the custody of
Speaker 1: their child. But this season we also started to hear
Speaker 1: things that are also quite different. That he was really
Speaker 1: loving and kind, and that he could never pull this off.
Speaker 1: And then you look at a picture like this, and
Speaker 1: it does make you wonder. My sister always kept him
Speaker 1: on a short lease. I mean she wouldn't let him
Speaker 1: do anything, wouldn't let him get away from anybody, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean that she just kept him on a short lease.
Speaker 1: They had to stay there, had to take care of
Speaker 1: the family. George wanted to leave. He wanted his own place,
Speaker 1: but never got it. If you're raised your entire life
Speaker 1: a certain way, it's hard to change. If you've had
Speaker 1: something pounding like they was homeschooled all their life. I
Speaker 1: think it was just the fact that he was, like
Speaker 1: I said, had a pounding in his head that you
Speaker 1: always have to take care of the family, always help
Speaker 1: the family, whatever they do. You got to be a
Speaker 1: part of the help or whatever. And I think it
Speaker 1: just pounded in his head so much that he started
Speaker 1: believing it because I know that he was raised up
Speaker 1: to always take care of Jake always, no matter what,
Speaker 1: he has to protect Jack. Don't matter if Jake does
Speaker 1: wrong to somebody else and they want to pay back
Speaker 1: on it, don't matter. You've got to take care of
Speaker 1: your brother. And so what Angela is like this Hannah
Speaker 1: a girl in his trouble, she's trying to take away
Speaker 1: Jake's daughter. What's he gonna do protect his brother? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the way he was raised up. After Jake confessed
Speaker 1: it or whatever he did, he I just said, Hey,
Speaker 1: I ain't got metham for him anymore. I defended him
Speaker 1: tooth and nail to everybody that had anything bad to
Speaker 1: say about him. I defended because I had thought to
Speaker 1: myself there said, there's no way my family could have
Speaker 1: had anything doing this. I said, I've known George and Jake.
Speaker 1: You know all their life. I said, there's no way
Speaker 1: possible that they could have done this. I've always been
Speaker 1: so curious to know more about life behind bars. For
Speaker 1: the individual Wagner family members, we know that they've been
Speaker 1: separated and haven't seen each other since their arrests. We've
Speaker 1: been in contact with one of Angela Wagner's cell mates.
Speaker 1: We know that George Wagner requested solitary confinement in the Bible,
Speaker 1: and that he was originally in Ross County Jail but
Speaker 1: is currently in the Montgomery County Jail in Ohio. And
Speaker 1: that's for angel and Billy Wagner. They have both been
Speaker 1: in the same jails since they were arrested. Billy is
Speaker 1: in Hamilton, Ohio, and Angela Wagner is in Delaware County.
Speaker 1: The youngest Wagner's son, Jake, is currently being held in
Speaker 1: the Franklin County Jail in Columbus, Ohio. And all of
Speaker 1: these jails aren't about one hundred and seventy five mile
Speaker 1: radius of each other. In a little under three hours,
Speaker 1: but for a family who will probably never see each
Speaker 1: other again except for when they're testifying against each other
Speaker 1: in court, those three hours probably feel like a lifetime
Speaker 1: and stuff. You know a little bit more about Jake's
Speaker 1: time in jail, right. Somebody who has access to Jake
Speaker 1: Wagner on a daily basis came and saw us at
Speaker 1: a work event and said that Jake is very busy
Speaker 1: working on a manifesto. So whether that's something he's putting
Speaker 1: together as a book or as a final statement, don't know.
Speaker 1: You hear the term manifesto a lot when it comes
Speaker 1: to shooters. Often people who go and shoot public places
Speaker 1: write these manifestos prior to their murders. I hate to
Speaker 1: say this out loud, but what a shake up that
Speaker 1: would be to the remaining trials. Let's stop here for
Speaker 1: another break. George's ties to his family will be put
Speaker 1: to the test at this trial. In light of Jake's
Speaker 1: admission of guilt and Angela's plea, the eldest son of
Speaker 1: the Wagner clan is in a tight spot. Was George's
Speaker 1: a legend involvement in the murders as a passive participant
Speaker 1: or could he be a cold blooded killer? Here again,
Speaker 1: Sammy Joe, the family for the Romans cannot have closure
Speaker 1: until they know the truth. They'll never know the truth.
Speaker 1: If we keep doing a pre trial trial, we're going
Speaker 1: to move it, so on, so forth. The way I feel,
Speaker 1: if you have all the evidence to say you have
Speaker 1: move on, move on so people can have closure and
Speaker 1: move on with their life. But again they're just going
Speaker 1: to drag their feet and eventually the truth will come
Speaker 1: out and then the people that's the way it's so
Speaker 1: long to find the truth is no longer going to
Speaker 1: be here, and then they never had closure in our life.
Speaker 1: More on that next time. If you're enjoying The Pikes
Speaker 1: and Massacre, listen to our other hit series, Crazy and Love.
Speaker 1: New episodes there every Tuesday. Wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: For more information and case photos, follow us on Instagram
Speaker 1: at Katie Underscore Studios. The Pikes and Massacre is produced
Speaker 1: by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Graves and me Courtney Armstrong.
Speaker 1: Editing and sound designed by Jeff Tis, Music by Jared Aston.
Speaker 1: The Piked and Massacre is a production of Kati Studios
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