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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease.

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Speaker 2: Drag racing. Really, we see it in movies like Fast

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Speaker 2: and Furious and on other big screen productions. Maybe on

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Speaker 2: TV we hear about it. But a high profile plastic

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Speaker 2: surgeon's wife, a socialite drag racing with our alleged lover

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Speaker 2: and mowing down two little boys in the process, that's

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Speaker 2: what we're talking about. Two little boys dead, ages eight

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Speaker 2: and eleven, while this plastic surgeon's socialite wife is drag

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Speaker 2: racing on the open road after a boozy lunch with

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Speaker 2: her lover. Uh uh no, what's the maximum in this jurisdiction.

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Speaker 2: I need to find that out. I mean to see grace.

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Speaker 2: This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us here

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Speaker 2: at Crime Stories and on serious extem one eleven. Let

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Speaker 2: me just take these words in fitted together in one sentence,

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Speaker 2: A plastic surgeon, socialite wife mows down two little boys.

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Speaker 2: Wait a minute, has she been on bond this whole time?

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Speaker 2: So many questions. Let's start it off. Listen.

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Speaker 3: Just after seven pm on a September evening, Jacob and

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Speaker 3: Mark Iskander, their siblings and parents, go for an evening

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Speaker 3: stroll to a nearby lake. The boys enjoy ruller bleeding

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Speaker 3: and skateboarding. The six member family is heading home, crossing

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Speaker 3: in a crosswalk at a three way intersection when mother

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Speaker 3: Nancy heard a speeding car barreling their way. Says her

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Speaker 3: husband and daughter were further away from the street. She

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Speaker 3: tries to signal to the two SUVs heading their way

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Speaker 3: to slow down. She tried to pull the children back,

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Speaker 3: only managing to grab one of them, a five year old,

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Speaker 3: and dive out of the way. Jacob and Mark, who

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Speaker 3: were farther out in the crosswalk, are hit. Mark Iskinder

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Speaker 3: dies at the scene. Jacob dies later at the hospital.

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Speaker 3: According to police, Mark was thrown two hundred and fifty

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Speaker 3: four feet.

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Speaker 2: Two one hundred and fifty four feet. I've got an

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Speaker 2: all star panel joining me, but first I want to

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Speaker 2: go to private investigator. Former Federal Task Force officer for

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Speaker 2: the USDJ Department of Justice with the DEA in the

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Speaker 2: Miami Field Division. No lack of business in Miami Jade,

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Speaker 2: former homicide investigator. You can find him at Crispininvestigations dot com.

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Speaker 2: Robert Crispin, have you ever first of all, two hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty four feet a child is thrown through the

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Speaker 2: air two hundred and fifty four feet. Wait, okay, now

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Speaker 2: I'm a lawyer. I'm not a sports broadcaster. But I

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Speaker 2: was a cheerleader only because I didn't make the basketball team.

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Speaker 2: One girl got cut me, so I became a cheerleader.

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Speaker 2: Isn't a football field one hundred yards? Okay? That's three

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Speaker 2: hundred feet Okay. As you can tell by my stilted questions,

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Speaker 2: they did not teach me that in law school. So

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Speaker 2: this child is thrown nearly the length of a football field?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, not, you know, not uncommon for the pedestrian to

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Speaker 4: be thrown a quite of a distance. This particular case.

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Speaker 4: If you look at the crash impact on the Mercedes,

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Speaker 4: it's pretty much a dead center hit.

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Speaker 2: Robert Crispin, I appreciate all of your knowledge, but that

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Speaker 2: was a yes no. This little child was thrown nearly

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Speaker 2: the length of a football field.

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Speaker 4: He was, and that's a long way.

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Speaker 2: Okay. Another quick question, This is a yes no too,

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Speaker 2: Robert Crispin. Before you, you know, lay all your knowledge

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Speaker 2: on me. Robert Crispin. Have you ever been out for

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Speaker 2: a walk or a jog, maybe with your family, and

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Speaker 2: somebody speaks by and you try to say slow down,

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Speaker 2: or you gesticulate towards them. Has that ever happened to you?

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Speaker 4: Of course, I think it's happened to everybody.

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Speaker 2: Okay, did they stop? Did they slow down?

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Speaker 4: Not at all? They're oblivious, not at all.

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Speaker 2: In fact, they speed off. I tried to take the

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Speaker 2: picture of a speeding car the other day that sped

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Speaker 2: by Lucy and me as we were walking. As soon

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Speaker 2: as I held my phone up, it scratched off Crispin.

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Speaker 2: So the mom. Can you imagine? There's all the children.

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Speaker 2: Let's see, there's Mark eleven, Jacob eight, The parents are there,

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Speaker 2: Kaem and Nancy, the your other Zachary who's just five,

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Speaker 2: the husband. They're all out for an evening stroll at

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Speaker 2: a lake I don't think too far from their home.

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Speaker 2: And this socialite married to a plastic surgeon, just stinking

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Speaker 2: of money, comes flying by and you can hear the

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Speaker 2: car first speeding, because I can hear it when I'm

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Speaker 2: with the twins, I'm like, go get off the roads,

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Speaker 2: get over. I hear a car coming, and sure enough,

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Speaker 2: here it comes, barreling down. The mom heard it first

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Speaker 2: and immediately starts trying to get everybody, and she couldn't

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Speaker 2: get the two little boys. Fast enough. You think I've

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Speaker 2: got those facts right, Robert Crispin.

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Speaker 4: Listen, your facts are right, and I've you know, with

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Speaker 4: my own son, when I'm all walking with him, he

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Speaker 4: gets so far away and someone comes speeding by. I

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Speaker 4: cannot imagine of how close she was to just potentially

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Speaker 4: grabbing them and pulling them back, and not being there

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Speaker 4: and watching that impact had to be horrific, horrific.

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Speaker 2: And you know, the other little brother, Zachary's five, he

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Speaker 2: remembers this crystal clear. Okay, let me get back to

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Speaker 2: the facts. Listen.

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Speaker 5: Nancy Eskander tells police that two SUVs were speeding toward

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Speaker 5: her family and were quote zigzagging with each other as

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Speaker 5: if they were playing or racing. She says the drivers

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Speaker 5: didn't stop at the intersection, not even when the eleven

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Speaker 5: year old was on the hood of the car. She

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Speaker 5: describes how eight year old Jacob was lying near the curb,

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Speaker 5: mark was in the road with a visibly broken arm

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Speaker 5: and quote blood coming out of his mouth. She says

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Speaker 5: her five year old watched paramedics perform CPR on his brother.

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Speaker 5: When asked if she could see which driver or suv

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Speaker 5: struck her son, Iskander said no. She was diving out

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Speaker 5: of the way, pulling her five year old along.

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Speaker 2: As I mentioned, with me an all star panel to

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Speaker 2: make sense of what we know right now. But now

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Speaker 2: I'm want to go to Aimon Murphy joining us, investigative

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Speaker 2: reporter writer for the Acorn Newspapers. Amen, thank you for

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Speaker 2: being with us. Explain to me what facts I've left

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Speaker 2: out so far up to the point where cp CPR

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Speaker 2: is being given by the EMTs.

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Speaker 6: Well, Nancy, you basically you've got it right. It was

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Speaker 6: evening of September twenty ninth, twenty twenty. The family of

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Speaker 6: the Eskander family were out for a walk. You know,

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Speaker 6: this is during COVID, so they're getting out getting some air.

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Speaker 6: Nancy us Gander is crossing the road. It's called Tranfo

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Speaker 6: Canyon Road in Westlake Village. It runs right along the lake.

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Speaker 6: She's crossing towards the lake with her three boys. She's

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Speaker 6: got the youngest boy right at her hip and they're

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Speaker 6: in front. The two older boys are behind her. That's

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Speaker 6: Mark and Jacob. Her husband and their baby daughter are

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Speaker 6: continue walking up the road. They don't cross, so there's

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Speaker 6: some distance away. Nancy, as gender hears the roars of

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Speaker 6: two engines, she says, And she turns and she sees

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Speaker 6: these SUVs come. She's able to jump out of the

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Speaker 6: way of the first one, that's a black SUV with

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Speaker 6: her youngest son, but then behind her the second car,

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Speaker 6: which is a white Mercedes SUV, hits the other two boys,

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Speaker 6: and that's the one driven by Rebecca Grossman.

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Speaker 7: Authorities say, okay, whoa, whoa, whoa.

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Speaker 2: Wait wait waite, wait a minute, Aimon Murphy, let's say

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Speaker 2: you know, all the facts are at the tip of

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Speaker 2: your fingers. You're telling a lot of people new information.

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Speaker 2: First of all, Rebecca Grossman, Okay, well, she's beautiful number one,

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Speaker 2: but she is married to a plastic surgeon. So I

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Speaker 2: don't know how much of that is God given, not judging,

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Speaker 2: don't care. But you know, you normally think of a

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Speaker 2: lady of her standing, her age. She's a grown woman.

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Speaker 2: I don't really picture her zig zag at what eighty

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Speaker 2: plus miles an hour and residential area zig zagging walk.

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Speaker 2: I'm fast and furious. You've seen that, right, I've seen

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Speaker 2: all of them with my son. Okay, Actually I liked them,

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Speaker 2: so I can't really blame him. Amen, have you ever

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Speaker 2: seen that the zig zagging and I'm trying to imagine.

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Speaker 2: I'm looking at her picture right now, this lady, Well,

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Speaker 2: she's no lady, she's killer. According to me, zig actually

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Speaker 2: zig zagging in a residential area at eighty plus miles

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Speaker 2: an hour, right.

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Speaker 6: I'll see it. It's a problem in the LA area.

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Speaker 6: I mean, in this quiet, sleepy part of town. I mean,

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Speaker 6: the first time I drove by this road, I saw

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Speaker 6: numerous pedestrians, numerous cyclists. The thought of going eighty one

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Speaker 6: miles an hour, which is the figure we've been given,

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Speaker 6: that is that's unthinkable on that road, I mean, completely unthinkable.

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Speaker 6: But the judge and and the preliminary hearing said that

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Speaker 6: Grossman was playing a high speed game of chicken with

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Speaker 6: the other driver in the incident, Scott Ericsson, and police

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Speaker 6: said that they were racing from a restaurant to a house.

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Speaker 6: The judge in the trial has taken a more skeptical

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Speaker 6: stance towards that term, and street racing is not part

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Speaker 6: of the charges in this case. But the prosecutor who

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Speaker 6: has said it's not a grease style dropping of the

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Speaker 6: handkerchief scenario, he doesn't want to have to stop a

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Speaker 6: witness from using that word in the colloquial sense to

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Speaker 6: describe what they saw as the mother in this case

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Speaker 6: has done the mother of the victims. But there is

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Speaker 6: a history of speeding tickets and this driving record, at

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Speaker 6: least one of which is going to come in because

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Speaker 6: it was accompanied by a warning from the highway patrolman

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Speaker 6: who said, you know, you could kill somebody driving like

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Speaker 6: this on the freeways.

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Speaker 2: How do we know? He said that on one of

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Speaker 2: her last spating tickets. Is it on bodycm?

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Speaker 6: I'm not sure if it's on bodycam or if it

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Speaker 6: was a note was made of it some other way.

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Speaker 2: Eighty one and a forty five. And when you say

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Speaker 2: this sleepy little area of LA, for most people we

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Speaker 2: think of LA. Although I live for there for a while,

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Speaker 2: I do know that there are sleepy little areas. Most

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Speaker 2: people think of, you know, the Walk of Fame. They

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Speaker 2: think of downtown LA. What we see in movies and TV.

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Speaker 2: What part of LA is a sleepy little borough.

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Speaker 6: Well, this is not the city of Los Angeles. This

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Speaker 6: is the absolute western edge of Los Angeles County. It's

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Speaker 6: a city called Westlake Village, which is less than eight

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Speaker 6: thousand people, and most of the city was annexed by

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Speaker 6: Ventura County. It became part of Thousand Oaks. So it's

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Speaker 6: a tiny, little affluent suburb just on the edge of

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Speaker 6: the county. And you know, really the point of it is,

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Speaker 6: it's not Los Angeles, the city. You know, it's a

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Speaker 6: different kind of a Please.

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Speaker 2: You know, Amon Murphy, I'm trying to parse everything you're

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Speaker 2: saying because you're giving me so much correct information. You

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Speaker 2: said that La has a problem with drag racing or

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Speaker 2: speed racing. I think that he said that, yeah, by

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Speaker 2: gang members. I don't think of some plastic surgeon. This

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Speaker 2: old lady out there's dragging with her lover after they

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Speaker 2: booze it up at lunch. That must have been some

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Speaker 2: long lunch because now it's the evening and she's drag

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Speaker 2: racing with her excuse me, alleged lover. Alleged. I haven't

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Speaker 2: seen them in bed together. I don't know for sure

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Speaker 2: that they're lovers. But that said, this grown lady drunks, skunk,

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Speaker 2: drag racing, and most all that. You know what money

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Speaker 2: cannot buy class that is for sure.

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Speaker 6: What do you buy an AMG car for? I mean,

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Speaker 6: one thing the prosecution wanted to bring in is the

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Speaker 6: fact that she took a one day you performance driving

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Speaker 6: course on a closed track in twenty eighteen, and the

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Speaker 6: judge said, no you wait.

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Speaker 2: Wait, wait, you're awesome number one A.

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Speaker 6: M yeah, AMG. It's it's it's a high performance kind

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Speaker 6: of a Mercedes, you know, these cars with the really

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Speaker 6: loud engines, and so that if you buy one of

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Speaker 6: these cars, you can participate in a course on a

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Speaker 6: closed racetrack where they kind of give you the You

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Speaker 6: have an instructor and you have a chance to you know,

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Speaker 6: drive fast, and of course you're not on the streets,

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Speaker 6: so it's not dangerous in that way. And you're told

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Speaker 6: that the course, you know, this is you know, very

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Speaker 6: controlled conditions. You can't drive like this in the real world.

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Speaker 6: So she attended one of these in twenty eighteen, and

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Speaker 6: the prosecution had wanted to introduce this and bring this

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Speaker 6: warning into show because re racing in the legal sense

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Speaker 6: is not part of the charges, but the prosecution means

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Speaker 6: that in the more cooquial sense of two cars driving

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Speaker 6: very quickly mirroring each other, something we see a lot

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Speaker 6: on the freeway, and something that a witness in the

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Speaker 6: case might say about this incident, as the mother of

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Speaker 6: the victims has done to get a murder conviction because

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Speaker 6: she's charged with secondary murder for killing these kids, as

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Speaker 6: well as vehicular manslaughter and hit and run.

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Speaker 2: Driving as she should be.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, but that's to get to that murder conviction. They

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Speaker 6: need to establish implied malice because you know it wasn't

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Speaker 6: exactly intentional.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Matthew Mangino, high profile lawyer joining US former prosecutor and

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Speaker 2: Lawrence County, PA. Author of The Executioner's Toll Wait for it,

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Speaker 2: The Executioner's Told the Crimes, arrest, Trials, appeals, last meals,

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Speaker 2: and final words. Executed persons forty six people across the US.

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Speaker 2: I love that title. You can find them at Mattmanngino

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Speaker 2: dot com. Matthew, we both tried a lot of homicide cases.

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Speaker 2: To show intent to a jury, you can show them

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Speaker 2: intent either implied or express express means. I say, Jackie,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to shoot you dead right now, and I

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Speaker 2: shoot her dead. That's not going to happen because I

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Speaker 2: need you desperately, And there is implied intent, such as

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Speaker 2: you choose to get stink and drunk walk to your car.

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Speaker 2: Insert the key, start the ignition, put it reverse, put

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Speaker 2: it in drive, hit the gas, or let me give

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Speaker 2: an easier one with implied intent. I go and I

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Speaker 2: practice shoot at arrange for twenty hours. Then I go by,

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Speaker 2: let's just go with a glock. Then I stop my husband,

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Speaker 2: who I find out has been cheating not true, and

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Speaker 2: then I get him in the crosshairs and I spy

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Speaker 2: on him till comes out of the office and I

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Speaker 2: train across the populant boom egone. All right, So that

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Speaker 2: is implied intent. It was a very long drawn out plan,

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Speaker 2: even though I didn't expressly say it. I think here,

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Speaker 2: I would argue to the jury. I'd show them this

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Speaker 2: picture of her car totally bashed in in the front

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Speaker 2: and go through what all she did before she landed

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Speaker 2: right here, all the warnings, all the speeding tickets, all

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Speaker 2: the booze that afternoon, and say that's implied intent, right.

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Speaker 8: You know, second degree murder in California is you have

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Speaker 8: to show malice of fore thought. You don't have. You

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Speaker 8: don't show deliberation or premeditation. Just that's that malice in

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Speaker 8: drinking where you have a blood alcohol content three hours

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Speaker 8: later that zero point zero eight, which is clearly indicative

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Speaker 8: that it would have been higher at the time you

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Speaker 8: are driving, and that you're driving eighty miles an hour

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Speaker 8: in a forty five mile an hour zone where there

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Speaker 8: are pedestrians frequently in that area is enough to show malice.

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Speaker 6: I mean, plus her.

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Speaker 8: History of driving and an excess of speed at times

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Speaker 8: all amounts to her malice. She's grossly negligent. She's reckless

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Speaker 8: in getting behind the wheel and driving at that speed

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Speaker 8: in an area in which there frequently are people and

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Speaker 8: young people exercising involved in recreation. And because of that

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Speaker 8: there's ample evidence to convict her of second degree murder.

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Speaker 2: Well, now we're getting a whole spin on it, and

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Speaker 2: luckily for tuitiously, today we have with us premier accident reconstruction.

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Speaker 2: As senior Engineer, owner of Vera Tech Consulting Engineering at

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Speaker 2: Vera Tech eng for Engineering dot Com. Joseph Tremblay, Joseph,

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Speaker 2: I got a few things to run by you. But first,

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Speaker 2: Stacy Stewart, the CEO of Mothers Against Drunk Driving MAD

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Speaker 2: which has now taken off across this country and is

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Speaker 2: a veritable force against drunk driving. Stacy Stewart Aman Murphy,

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Speaker 2: isn't it true that she would not willingly give a

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Speaker 2: blood draw, and that she wouldn't quote, really blow into

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Speaker 2: the breathalyzer.

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Speaker 6: I've heard that about them, that she wasn't really blowing

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Speaker 6: and that's why they wanted to get the blood. And

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Speaker 6: while you had those readings that were point oh seventy six,

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Speaker 6: and then later on the blood draw reading is higher.

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Speaker 6: She did not give consent to have the blood drawn.

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Speaker 6: She said she wanted to ask her her husband when

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Speaker 6: they said will you consent to this? So instead there

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Speaker 6: was a forced blood draw. She was taken to the

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Speaker 6: hospital by the police and there her blood was taken

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Speaker 6: and that's where they got the point oh eight results.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Stacy Stewart joining US CEO of Mothers Against Drunk

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Speaker 2: Driving Mad Stacy, if she's point eight hours later, once

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Speaker 2: she gets to the hospital and they perform the blood draw,

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Speaker 2: there's no telling what she was because alcohol dissipates in

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Speaker 2: the body.

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Speaker 9: That's in fact, you're right.

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Speaker 10: And if she was at point oh eight three hours

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Speaker 10: after the crash occurred, and she was significantly higher than

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Speaker 10: that presumably at the time of the crash, sure I

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Speaker 10: know that that's what the passecutors will will argue.

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Speaker 9: And one of the things. I think one of the

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Speaker 9: things that I think a lot of people Nancy don't

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Speaker 9: understand is that even at levels less than point oh eight,

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Speaker 9: drivers are impaired. You know, there's a there was a

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Speaker 9: bill introduced in California, and there's one that's been introducing

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Speaker 9: other states trying to move the legal limit two point

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Speaker 9: oh five blood alcohol concentration level, because all the studies

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Speaker 9: that we have seen have shown that the risk of

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Speaker 9: crash is significantly higher at point oh five, seven times

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Speaker 9: higher as compared to for drivers that are at anywhere

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Speaker 9: from point oh five to point oh eight as compared

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Speaker 9: to drivers with no alcohol in their system. So we

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Speaker 9: know that at any level of drinking and get in driving,

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Speaker 9: a driver can be impaired and can dangerously put themselves

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Speaker 9: at risk or others, as is the case here. Obviously

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Speaker 9: from the facts that we know.

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Speaker 6: There's one other thing to say here at Nancy, which

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Speaker 6: is that the toxicology report also showed a small amount

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Speaker 6: of value. So the prosecution is going to say that

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Speaker 6: there's an interaction between the value and the alcohol which

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Speaker 6: increases the impairment effect. Even if you have a level

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Speaker 6: of reading that is not all that high in terms

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Speaker 6: of the legal limit.

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Speaker 11: Nancy.

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Speaker 9: One thing I would just say about that is ahead.

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Speaker 9: One of the things I would just say about that

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Speaker 9: point is that we are seeing a concerning trend of

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Speaker 9: what we called polyuse, so the use of alcohol and

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Speaker 9: other substances like prescription drugs, value like cannabis, so in

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Speaker 9: states that has also legalized marijuana where it's more widely available.

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Speaker 9: Moving the blood alcohol concentration level too point oh five.

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Speaker 9: It's even more critical because multiple substances can lead to

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Speaker 9: even more impairment by drivers, and we're seeing a disturbing

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Speaker 9: trend about that where we've seen an increase in impair

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Speaker 9: driving fatalities. It's thirty five percent even over the past

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Speaker 9: few years. So we're seeing an increasing trend. And of

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Speaker 9: course this multiple use of substances is obviously an issue

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Speaker 9: that we have to address.

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Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan's joining US Professor Forensics Shacksville State University,

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Speaker 2: author of Blood Beneath My Fate on Amazon, and star

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Speaker 2: of a hit series Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan.

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Speaker 2: Joe Scott, why and how does all that alcohol dissipate

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Speaker 2: in just three hours?

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Speaker 7: Well, it's metabolic change, share or or processing rather so

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Speaker 7: your body is actually metabolizing this alcohol that has been

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Speaker 7: ingested previously. And that's why you know, once someone has

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Speaker 7: become anebriated over a period of time, once they stop drinking,

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Speaker 7: it stands to reason that the body is still processing

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Speaker 7: all of this alcohol that's contained in the body of

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Speaker 7: the ethanol, and as it's being burned off in the body,

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Speaker 7: you begin to kind of return back to a level

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Speaker 7: of normalcy. But it takes a while for it to

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Speaker 7: all get out of your body. And so what's key

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Speaker 7: here is when you are in law enforcement and you're

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Speaker 7: attempting to conduct a test on an individual to measure it,

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Speaker 7: you're fighting. You're fighting against time here because you can't

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Speaker 7: fight metabolism in the body. So it's a race. So

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Speaker 7: the longer you wait, the less the level will be.

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Speaker 7: But you know, you can kind of project this back.

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Speaker 7: If you're talking about three hour delay, you can kind

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Speaker 7: of hypothesize that the level would have been much higher

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Speaker 7: and with a much greater level of impairment as well.

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Speaker 7: And you couple that with value, and it's a deadly mix.

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Speaker 2: They are throwing out everything they can to beat this charge.

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Speaker 2: Rebecca Grossman is estimated to be worth one hundred million dollars.

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Speaker 2: One hundred million dollars is her estimated net worth. The

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Speaker 2: latest that has been pulled out of the defense back

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Speaker 2: of tricks is to blame the lover, although witnesses say

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Speaker 2: it was Grossman's white Mercedes that hit the child, not

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Speaker 2: her lover's black vehicle. We'll see where that goes, but

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Speaker 2: let's get back to the facts as we know them.

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Speaker 2: Take a listen to Captain Salvador Materira.

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Speaker 12: Two cars were racing. We believe speed is a factor,

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Speaker 12: alcohol is a factor.

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Speaker 13: The family were in a marked crosswalk, clearly marked. As

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Speaker 13: she realized there were two cars speeding her way, she

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Speaker 13: was able to reach out and grab one of her

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Speaker 13: children off of a razor scooter, pulled the child back

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Speaker 13: with the stroller with another child a stroller as the

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Speaker 13: car entered the intersection and hit the other two boys.

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Speaker 2: What more do we know about what happened when these

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Speaker 2: two little boys were mowed down dead? Listen to our

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Speaker 2: forensic crime online.

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Speaker 3: Deputies reportedly catch up with the white Mercedes with significant

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Speaker 3: front end damage a third of a mile from the scene.

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Speaker 3: Behind the wheel is Rebecca Grossman. A deputy describes finding

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Speaker 3: the vehicle stopped at the curb and Grossman saying she

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Speaker 3: didn't know why her airbag had been triggered. As Grossman

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Speaker 3: speaks to a nine to one to one operator, she's

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Speaker 3: asked if she hit someone. Grossman can be heard saying

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Speaker 3: I don't know what I hit.

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Speaker 14: One of the boys struck in the crosswalk is pronounced

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Speaker 14: dead on the scene, according to KCl, and another boy

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Speaker 14: dies in the hospital. Police were able to arrest fifty

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Speaker 14: seven year old Rebecca Grossman, a well known figure in

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Speaker 14: the community who appeared on KCl in the past as

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Speaker 14: the founder and chair of the Grossman Burne Foundation. She's

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Speaker 14: also been recognized for her humanitarian work around the world.

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Speaker 14: Captain Salvador Besa says it is senseless and could have

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Speaker 14: been avoided by ordering an uber or calling a friend.

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Speaker 14: Rebecca Grossman did not stay on the scene. She was

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Speaker 14: arrested a quarter of a mile away.

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Speaker 2: So Amon Murphy from the Acorn Newspapers. She flees the

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Speaker 2: scene and it starts saying I don't know what I hit.

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Speaker 2: She's in the wide high powered Mercedes with all of

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Speaker 2: the damage to the front, right in the middle of

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Speaker 2: the grill.

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Speaker 6: That's right. She kept driving the engine was cut off

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Speaker 6: remotely because the airbag had deployed, so the car eventually

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Speaker 6: stopped and she's gone. By deputy.

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Speaker 2: That's probably the only reason she stopped, as the car

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Speaker 2: forced her to stop when the airbag deployed. With me

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Speaker 2: is Joseph Tremblay, a premier accident reconstruction, a senior engineer,

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Speaker 2: co owner Veritech Consulting Engineering. Joseph, I wanted you to

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Speaker 2: hear these facts so you could give me your analysis.

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Speaker 15: What do you think, Well, let's talk about that car

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Speaker 15: a little bit more and the damage to the front end.

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Speaker 15: It's pretty obvious that there's significant damage to both the

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Speaker 15: front clip and the hood, which is very consistent with

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Speaker 15: contact made between the car and a pedestrian in this case.

432
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 2: Oh wait, I see what you're talking about when you

433
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 2: say the front grill or I say grill and you

434
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 2: say hood. You know, if you look at that picture,

435
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 2: Joseph Tremblay, and of course I'm a civilian in this matter,

436
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 2: it looks like there is a spot where a boy's

437
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 2: body could lay, almost like a hammock has been formed

438
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 2: in her hood.

439
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 15: Yeah, that's correct, and I think that's probably what happened

440
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 15: in this case. Is that one of the little boys

441
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 15: actually ended up on the hood, as tragic as that sounds,

442
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 15: and was carried by the car for a significant distance

443
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:23,959
Speaker 15: after impact. And another thing that's interesting to note. On

444
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 15: that picture that you're referring to, where you see the

445
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 15: front end damage, you also see underneath the car there's

446
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 15: a puddle of fluid, almost as if perhaps the car

447
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 15: sustains some sort of mechanical damage from this contact. And

448
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 15: not only was the car disabled because of the airbag deployment,

449
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 15: it may not have been driveable at all because of

450
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 15: the coolant leak. That's probably what happened here.

451
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 2: Well, I'm trying to furiously take notes as you write.

452
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 2: It's amazing to me that she her new defense is

453
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 2: that it was her boyfriend that did it, the one

454
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 2: driving the other car. When they pull this vehicle over,

455
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 2: she had been forced to stop, either from the fluid

456
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 2: leakage or because the airbag deployed. She did you hear

457
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 2: this part to you, Robert Crispin. She wouldn't quote really

458
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 2: blow into the breathalyzer, don't you know. It's because she

459
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,880
Speaker 2: knew she was drunk, and she thought by just going

460
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,120
Speaker 2: and not really blowing into it, fully, she might beat

461
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 2: the breathalyzer.

462
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 4: So listen, the breathalyzer machines are very accurate, and they're

463
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 4: very sensitive, and they're built for people that are going

464
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 4: to do that. So clearly it obtained a reasonable sample

465
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 4: to come up with an indication and a reading being

466
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 4: the point zero seven to six. So yes, I've had

467
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 4: a bunch of people and I've arrested over one hundred

468
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 4: people for DUI in my career. Yeah, people always try

469
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 4: to do that, They always try to very lightly blow,

470
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 4: but these machines are built for that. They sense that

471
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 4: the machines aren't stupid. So if I could just add.

472
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 6: One thing about the.

473
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 4: Point when she went up to the point eight, and

474
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 4: I think your doctor will also be able to confirm

475
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 4: with this. You know, you can drink alcohol and have

476
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 4: three drinks right now and getting your car two seconds,

477
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 4: which is a very stupid thing to do, but you

478
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 4: can drive a half a block away and get home

479
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 4: and you're probably still under the legal limit because, as

480
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 4: the doctor says, the alcohol hasn't processed your body. Clearly,

481
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 4: she was going up in her BAC level or her

482
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 4: blood alcohol level, which I surmise is why the prosecution

483
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 4: did not charge her with DUI because at the time

484
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 4: she took that first test. Now maybe it was a

485
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 4: PBT test, maybe it was a roadside test, I don't know,

486
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 4: but whatever machine she blew into. And then they took

487
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 4: the other blood tests at the hospital, I believe in

488
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 4: the three hours and the doctor can confirm us her blood.

489
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 6: Autohol level was going up.

490
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 4: And I have a feeling that the prosecution said err

491
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 4: on the side of caution because they're going to say

492
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 4: she wasn't DUI at the time of the crash. At

493
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 4: the time of the crash, that's a big deal at

494
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 4: the time of the crash.

495
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that explains why they didn't charge her driving

496
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 2: under the influence, because I think that's why that count.

497
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 2: It could taint or poison the rest of the counts.

498
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 2: They absolutely know they can prove to be UI. Yeah,

499
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 2: to be DUI across the country, you got to be

500
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 2: in most jurisdictions point zero eight. And at first she

501
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 2: blew point zero seven six, which rounds up too point eight.

502
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 2: But that's not good enough. When she gets to the

503
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 2: hospital she does the blood test shows point zero eight.

504
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 2: I personally trust a blood test more than the breathalyzer.

505
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 2: And the breathalyzer may have hit low because she's going

506
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 2: not really blowing into it. But we're gonna hear more

507
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 2: about that during the trial. You know another thing, and

508
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 2: I'm very curious about this. I'll throw this to Joseph Tremblay.

509
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 2: Our accent reconstruction is joining us. A former La County

510
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 2: Sheriff's deputy who specializes in traffic crashes, testified at a

511
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,959
Speaker 2: preliminary hearing his name Robert Appadaka, that he had never

512
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 2: seen a person thrown two hundred and fifty four feet

513
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,479
Speaker 2: by impact. It's the farthest he has ever known a

514
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 2: human to be thrown in a crash.

515
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 15: What about it, Tremblay, I think that is a significant distance,

516
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 15: and I am also very surprised at that distances. That's incredible.

517
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 15: And I think there's probably two factors that really contributed

518
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 15: to that number. And the first was that as we

519
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 15: touched on earlier, I think one of these pedestrians, one

520
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 15: of these little boys, was actually up on the hood

521
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 15: for a distance while the car was driving. And you know,

522
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 15: this car's going pretty fast, seventy eighty miles per hour

523
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 15: according to evidence, and it doesn't take a whole lot

524
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 15: of time to cover that kind of distance. So there

525
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 15: was probably a portion of that two hundred and fifty

526
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 15: four feet in which the little boy was on the

527
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 15: hood and then was vaulted off of the hood at

528
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 15: some point, and then you know, unfortunately came to rest

529
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 15: where where he did. But both of those factors kind

530
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 15: of contribute to that distance. And I want to swing

531
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 15: back and talk about this car a little bit more.

532
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 15: One thing that's kind of unique to Mercedes is Mercedes

533
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 15: has done a lot of safety improvements to their vehicles

534
00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 15: because they know that pedestrian accidents are very, very dangerous,

535
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 15: and they're usually fatal, and it's very serious when these occur.

536
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 15: So one of the safety features on all Mercedes cars

537
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 15: ever since twenty nineteen is called pre Safe, and that's

538
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 15: a system that's designed to detect pedestrians. Now, the only

539
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 15: way that that system will work is if the car

540
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 15: is traveling forty five miles per hour or less. So

541
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 15: it goes to stay that we could consider if this driver, Grossman,

542
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 15: if she was traveling the speed limit, this accident may

543
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 15: have never happened.

544
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 2: Wow, I didn't know about pre Safe on Mercedes. But

545
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 2: it's got a big question. What is a grown woman

546
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 2: doing drag racing, drunk as a skunk and high as

547
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 2: a kite off of valium and booze. Karen start joining

548
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 2: me renown psycholol just joining us out of the Manhattan

549
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 2: jurisdiction at karenstart dot com, Karen with the Sea, Karen,

550
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,840
Speaker 2: what's the grown woman doing drag racing with her alleged lover?

551
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 2: And this guy is no schlump La Dodgers, play with

552
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 2: the La Dodgers and with the New York Yankees. And

553
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 2: he's having this alcohol soaked lunch with this married multimillionaire

554
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:26,720
Speaker 2: and then they decide to go drag racing.

555
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 16: Really, well, you're not talking about the kind of grown

556
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 16: woman that we would imagine that They've been spending the

557
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 16: whole afternoon having a great time drinking. Allegedly he's an

558
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 16: ex lover and where I don't know, supposedly for Tris.

559
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 16: I don't know what they were doing. But she's not

560
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 16: just a jate controlled person. She's now has value in

561
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 16: her system. She's drinking, she's having this great time with

562
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 16: an ex lover, and she's just loose. What's really telling

563
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,839
Speaker 16: to me? I don't know about this? Isn't my expertise.

564
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 9: But the fact that she said.

565
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,280
Speaker 16: I don't know what I hit to me is saying

566
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,799
Speaker 16: that she knows she hit something. She just doesn't know

567
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 16: what it is that she hit.

568
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 2: But I mean, get real, Karen Stark, come on, please

569
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 2: get out of that Ivory tower. She drives what was

570
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:24,800
Speaker 2: it a quarter of a mile, a half a mile,

571
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,240
Speaker 2: Emon Murphy with the little boy on her hood?

572
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 16: Exactly how far.

573
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 2: Did she drive? Amon with the boy on the hood?

574
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 6: Well, I'm not The detail about the boy on the

575
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 6: hood has has been contested a bit, so we'll have

576
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 6: to see what they say a trial.

577
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 2: What does the state say.

578
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 6: I mean, initially, I'm not. I don't want to say

579
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 6: the say that the figures in the past because they've

580
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 6: been they've been challenged. I mean the car, the car

581
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 6: continued driving before she stopped, either a quarter mile or

582
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 6: a half mile, so she was, you know, she was continuing.

583
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 2: Well, where was the little boy's body found?

584
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 6: There was? One of them was found in the crosswalk basically,

585
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 6: and another was found around two hundred two hundred some

586
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 6: feet away.

587
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 2: Okay, Tremblay, that's to you. The little boy was found

588
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 2: two hundred feet away, at least two hundred feet away,

589
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 2: So she drove two thirds of a football field with

590
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,720
Speaker 2: the boy on her hood. What she can see that, Oh.

591
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 15: I think she's oblivious. And it really surprises me that

592
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 15: not only did she not see these two little boys

593
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 15: before impact. I mean, this is a wide open intersection,

594
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 15: and it's a very well lit, well marked crosswalk. It's

595
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 15: got there's flashing lights overhead. You can see it for

596
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 15: about one thousand feet before you get to it. So

597
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 15: it's let's let's make sure that that's a point that

598
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 15: we talk about here, is that there's no visual obstructions

599
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 15: to what you know she can see. But not only

600
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:05,879
Speaker 15: that after impact she's completely oblivious. There's there's a little

601
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,279
Speaker 15: boy on her hood and she continues to drive. That's

602
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 15: that's how serious this is. That's just plain egregious.

603
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 2: You know, Matthew Mangino. Sometimes the defense shoots themselves in

604
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 2: the foot, and I think that happened here because the

605
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 2: defense came up with a new theory as defense claiming

606
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 2: the alleged lover he's the one that was driving her

607
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 2: Mercedes as they were drag racing and chasing each other

608
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 2: through this residential neighborhood. And now the prosecutor Jamie Castro

609
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 2: will argue that she, Rebecca Grossmann, and the professional athlete

610
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 2: Scott Erickson had been in a sex affair. They said

611
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 2: they were not going to bring it up until she's

612
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:01,760
Speaker 2: now blaming him, claiming it is now become relevant because

613
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 2: the defense intends to argue that the black car is

614
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 2: at issue in this particular scenario and that they had swapped.

615
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,280
Speaker 2: So by coming up with this defense, now their sex

616
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 2: affair is going to come into evidence.

617
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:21,359
Speaker 8: Yeah, it will. And as you said, it wasn't the

618
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 8: state's intention to bring up the affair until they tried

619
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 8: to put forward this this defense that that he was

620
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 8: driving her vehicle. So that whole issue with regard to

621
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:39,760
Speaker 8: their relationship is now something that can be brought before

622
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 8: the jury. And and and obviously, you know a jury

623
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 8: is going to make a decision here and they're going

624
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 8: to consider the fact, but they also are going to

625
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 8: consider the credibility the believability of witnesses, uh, you know,

626
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 8: if she should take the stand, you know, so there,

627
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 8: you know, there there are issues here that are.

628
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 2: I guarantee if she's not going to take the stand,

629
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 2: because she'll have to be subjected to cross exam, especially

630
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 2: on comments she made like she did not know why

631
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 2: her airbag deployed. Hello, because you just hit two children

632
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 2: and one you drove along with on your hood.

633
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 8: She acknowledges all the things that she said that she

634
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,839
Speaker 8: hit something. You know, she doesn't know what it is,

635
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 8: but she did something.

636
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grease.

637
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 2: In the last hours in a court of law where

638
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 2: Rebecca Grossman is being tried for murder, the mother of

639
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 2: the two little boys who were mowed down dead actually

640
00:39:53,280 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 2: runs out of the courtroom sobbing. Amon Murphy joined us

641
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 2: investigative reporter writer for the Acorn Newspapers.

642
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 8: Go ahead, well, Nancy.

643
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 6: We heard from the mother of the victims, Nancy, a scander,

644
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 6: who described having to jump out of the way of

645
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 6: an oncoming black suv with her youngest son. Now a

646
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 6: white suv coming just up behind it ran through the

647
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 6: intersection where her other two boys were. She didn't see

648
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,320
Speaker 6: it hit them, but she heard a crash as it

649
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,800
Speaker 6: went by, and then they'd been struck. At one point,

650
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 6: after she had testified, they were photographs shown that another

651
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:38,280
Speaker 6: witness had taken of the aftermath of the scene, including

652
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 6: of a broken skateboard. Her oldest son, Mark had been

653
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 6: on a skateboard and also of Mark's body, and Nancy,

654
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,919
Speaker 6: a scander at that point, cried out her son's name,

655
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 6: Mark's name and had to leave the courtroom in distress.

656
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 6: We also heard from some other witnesses of the collisions.

657
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 6: None of them saw the white hit both of the boys,

658
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 6: but two of them saw the white car hit one

659
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 6: of the boys, and none of them attributed any impact

660
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,280
Speaker 6: to a black vehicle, which has been the defense's claim

661
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,800
Speaker 6: that the black car driven by Grossman's then boyfriend, Scott Erickson,

662
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 6: was responsible for hitting the boys. We also saw the

663
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 6: defense very aggressively cross examined two investigators, one of whom

664
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 6: did the initial crash report. They were going after his

665
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 6: measurements of the debris, which led to his conclusion that

666
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 6: speed was the cause of the accident, as well as

667
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,239
Speaker 6: his conclusion that all the debris was consistent with the

668
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 6: white Mercedes. He was also the same officer to initially

669
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,479
Speaker 6: come into contact with Rebecca Grossman and her disabled white

670
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 6: Mercedes after the accident, and then the officer who conducted

671
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 6: the field sobriety test under cross examination acknowledged that not

672
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,720
Speaker 6: all of the tests were conducted. According to the book,

673
00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 6: which cast some doubt onto his conclusion that she was

674
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:05,800
Speaker 6: impaired when he when he arrested her. Testimony has gotten

675
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 6: up to the point where Rebecca Grossman's blood was drawn

676
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 6: at the hospital after a warrant was obtained to do

677
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 6: a blood draw. So next they're going to get into

678
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 6: the chemist's account of the test results, which is important

679
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:24,240
Speaker 6: because that result is what was at the point eight level.

680
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 6: Three hours after the incident. The breathalyzer results were point

681
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 6: seven six in point seven to five, which are just

682
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 6: below that threshold for impairment. You can still be impaired

683
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:40,720
Speaker 6: technically below that limit, but it's going to be important

684
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 6: for the prosecution to get that test established at that

685
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 6: point eight level. And the defense is going to go

686
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 6: after the blood draw and the testing method, you know.

687
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 2: Stacy Stewart's CEO. And we get of mothers against drunk

688
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 2: driving MAD. I don't get why, after all the publicity

689
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 2: that MAD has generated, people still drive drunk.

690
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 9: It's a problem, and as I mentioned earlier, Nancy, we're

691
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 9: seeing the numbers going in the wrong direction. A thirty

692
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 9: five percent increase in the past several years is astounding,

693
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 9: and I think one of the things that's really important.

694
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 9: Is it's really time for us to revisit the laws

695
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 9: and the technology that we have in place. I just

696
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 9: was just listening to the technology and Mercedes. You know,

697
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 9: even that technology is not sufficient to stop for something

698
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 9: like this. But I do want you to know and

699
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 9: others to know that. In twenty twenty one, November twenty

700
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 9: twenty one, the Halt Act was passed. It is new

701
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 9: legislation that now requires passive, advanced and pair driving prevention

702
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 9: systems to be integrated into all new cars starting in

703
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 9: twenty twenty six. This is passive technology that would detect

704
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 9: in pair driving and it's these kinds of cases that

705
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 9: this technology, if it were in place, would have prevented

706
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 9: anyone getting behind a wheel at the level of illegal

707
00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 9: impairment would not be allowed to operate their car. And

708
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 9: right now, Matt's biggest priority is getting this technology implemented,

709
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 9: getting the legislation implemented. We're in the process of public

710
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 9: commentary right now. This is a huge win, but it's

711
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 9: not a win for drivers and for public safety if

712
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 9: we every day that we don't have this technology included

713
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 9: in cars. But we are close to it, and frankly,

714
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 9: this kind of prevention system would have been enormously helpful

715
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 9: to have saved the lives of these two precious little boys.

716
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 2: Well, you're right, you're right, Stacy Stewart. You know what

717
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:36,760
Speaker 2: else would have been helpful? If Rebecca Grossman hadn't gotten

718
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 2: drunk as a skunk at launch and hot behind the

719
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 2: wheels of her high power in Mercedes, that would have helped.

720
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 2: Listen to Captain Salvador Bacerra.

721
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 12: We've arrested Rebecca Grossman, female white, fifty seven for two

722
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 12: counts of a hicular manslaughter. She's been held two million

723
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 12: dollars bail.

724
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 2: Wow, two million dollars bail. That means the worst for her.

725
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 2: She had to put up two hundred thousand dollars and

726
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 2: she did that and did not blank an eye. Aimon

727
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 2: Murphy with us with the Acorn newspapers. How much money

728
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:11,799
Speaker 2: do they have and where do they get it?

729
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 6: Well, I'm not sure what the total net worth is.

730
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:20,360
Speaker 6: Her husband, Peter Grossman, is a prominent plastic surgeon in

731
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:24,879
Speaker 6: Los Angeles. His father was a very eminent doctor, very

732
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 6: innovative in the treatment of burns, and so his son

733
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 6: sort of followed in his footsteps. And there's that's obviously

734
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 6: a very lucrative practice. They live in Hidden Hills, which

735
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 6: is a particularly wealthy enclave in that area of Los

736
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 6: Angeles County, and Rebecca Grossman participated in these philanthropic efforts

737
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 6: associated with the Burn Center when she and her husband

738
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 6: started this foundation.

739
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 2: To Joe Scott Morgan joining US death investigator, Scott, let's

740
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:08,360
Speaker 2: think just one moment what this case is really about.

741
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 2: I want everyone, as much as it pains you to

742
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 2: think about your child or your children. Mine just turned sixteen,

743
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,840
Speaker 2: but it seems like I blinked my eye because it

744
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 2: feels like they're about seven or eight years old. That's

745
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 2: the age of one of these victims, eight years old

746
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 2: and eleven, Joe Scott, what did these boys endearre before

747
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 2: they were pronounced dead?

748
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 7: I think that in my estimation, they would have suffered

749
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,839
Speaker 7: massive blunt force trauma. Now, you know, as far as

750
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:52,280
Speaker 7: the level suffering, I can only hope that it was minimal,

751
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 7: but it would have been something that if they had survived.

752
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:02,800
Speaker 7: One obviously did for a time, it would and unless

753
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 7: they're you know, and this is the hope that I have,

754
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 7: as horrible as it sounds, I hope that they were

755
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 7: unaware that that their life was slipping away because they

756
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 7: were in an unconscious state. But you know, every they

757
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 7: say that every cloud has a silver lining. Nancy in

758
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 7: this case is about not this woman and not her

759
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:27,359
Speaker 7: wealthy surgeon husband and not the baseball players, about these

760
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 7: babies and the key here, And.

761
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 2: I think the silver lining, well.

762
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 7: I'm getting there, and the justice is going to come

763
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 7: in that in their absence, these kids are going to

764
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 7: bear witness in that courtroom because I think that a

765
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:45,959
Speaker 7: lot of the forensic evidence, it's going to be tied

766
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:47,879
Speaker 7: up in here. Remember all the slight of hand that's

767
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 7: going on with saying it was another vehicle and all

768
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 7: this nonsense. The trace evidence perhaps that is left behind

769
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 7: on their little fractured, broken bodies is going to tell

770
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 7: the tale and all so the degree to which they

771
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 7: were harmed. When you start talking about blunt force trauma

772
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 7: that is meted out by a motor vehicle being driven

773
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 7: by someone that is out of their mind under alcohol

774
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 7: at this level of force, you're gonna hear about the

775
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 7: extent of these injuries. You're also going to hear about

776
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 7: trace evidence that may have come from that car and

777
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 7: wound up on their little bodies. Like chip paint, and

778
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:28,840
Speaker 7: maybe some of their biological samples will be left in

779
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 7: the grill of that car, things like hair, blood, skin,

780
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 7: And we recover all this stuff all the time at

781
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 7: car accidents. That is as best as silver lining I

782
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:42,319
Speaker 7: can get you. I'm sorry if that disappoints you, but

783
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 7: that's the reality of what we're dealing with. We've got

784
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 7: these two little lost children in this broken family.

785
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,319
Speaker 2: I don't think I could be any more disappointed than

786
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 2: I already am, because you know, a lot of times

787
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:56,880
Speaker 2: and everybody on this panel has seen what goes on

788
00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 2: in our courtrooms. You see defendants that have committed a

789
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:04,479
Speaker 2: heinous crime, and you will hear the apologist state, well,

790
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:06,840
Speaker 2: you know they never had a chance, they had no education,

791
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 2: broken family, bad neighborhood, and now they commit a crime

792
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,239
Speaker 2: that means nothing to me. But in this case, you've

793
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 2: got a highly educated social white worth a billion plus

794
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 2: dollars with her husband, who, by the way, standing by her,

795
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:29,720
Speaker 2: who mows down these two boys, then tries to pretend

796
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:34,439
Speaker 2: it wasn't her, trying to get out of it till

797
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:36,839
Speaker 2: the bitter end. As a matter of fact, I want

798
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:42,880
Speaker 2: you to hear what the boy's mom Nancy Escander says,

799
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:44,320
Speaker 2: listen to our cut nineteen.

800
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 11: She didn't care enough to come all the order to

801
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 11: come to court, says.

802
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:53,879
Speaker 2: It right right above the law. I guess in her mind.

803
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:56,839
Speaker 2: Grossmand doesn't show up to court on multiple occasions and more.

804
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 11: At least I need to stop having to come to court,

805
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,800
Speaker 11: hearing updates and be able to take care of myself

806
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:07,759
Speaker 11: and my surviving children, that alone, my broken child who

807
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:10,400
Speaker 11: saw both his brothers die in front of his very eyes.

808
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 2: She continues, speaking to Katie La.

809
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 11: It's been a trend right of the lack of responsibility

810
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 11: and just the complete disregard of the two lives that

811
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 11: were gone, that were just taken like that.

812
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 2: She describes the little boy's features.

813
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 11: They had so much in front of them, so much

814
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 11: in this life, all of my hopes, all my dreams,

815
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 11: and they're just they were just ticking. And now I

816
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 11: see lack of responsibility.

817
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 2: To little boys no one seems to ever write or

818
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:45,320
Speaker 2: talk about. But not so with the defendant, multimillionaire Rebecca Grossman.

819
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 11: We've seen articles written in LA magazine on her behalf.

820
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 11: I've seen her actually posed to take a picture and

821
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 11: say that her life is now a nightmare.

822
00:50:56,040 --> 00:51:02,280
Speaker 2: Her life is a nightmare. Her life is a nightmare.

823
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:07,240
Speaker 2: Did she actually dare to say that she did? She did?

824
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:11,319
Speaker 2: This isn't the first time she had chances to turn

825
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 2: her life around.

826
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 11: Listen, it's not the first time. Right, we've seen missus Grossman,

827
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 11: you know, pretend nothing happened before.

828
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 2: And to further the pain to the family, Rebecca Grossman

829
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 2: has actually called news accounts of this fake news.

830
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 11: I've actually seen her on LinkedIn call it fake news.

831
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:38,920
Speaker 11: Two boys are at the cemetery, their picture is on

832
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 11: a tombstone, and she's calling it fake news.

833
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 2: Why is she denying it even happened. The boys are

834
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 2: six feet under, their pictures are on their tombstone. It's

835
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 2: not fake news. Listen. If I want to.

836
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 11: See them, I have to go to the cemetery or

837
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 11: just look at their friends and try to imagine how

838
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 11: they would look like. I'm just really, really, thank you

839
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 11: so so much for all the support and all the love.

840
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 11: Thank you for being here, thank you for the hugs

841
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 11: when you see me. Thank you for the tears. I

842
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 11: miss them, I miss them so much.

843
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 2: That is the mother breaking down in tears. She was

844
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 2: at a walk to support justice for Jacob and Mark.

845
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 2: That's what she has now, A picture on a tombstone.

846
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 2: That's what she's got. We wait as justice and faults. Goodbye, sir,