1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: From the heart of where innovation, money and power collive 2 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:10,879 Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with 3 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: Emily Jay. I'm Emily Changing San Francisco and this is 4 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Technology. Coming up in the next hour, Reckless Why 5 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: Russian President Vladimir Putin is being accused of nuclear terrorism. 6 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: We will bring you the latest from the White House, 7 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: plus how the war is affecting tech employees on both 8 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: sides of this fight from Ukraine and Russia. We'll talk 9 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: to two tech employees on the ground and the role 10 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: of crypto and the Russian invasion and how crypto exchanges 11 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: are navigating the crisis and sanctions. Will get the view 12 00:00:51,560 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: from Crack and CEO Jesse Powell. As we continue to 13 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: cover the situation in Ukraine, we are talking to tech 14 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,479 Speaker 1: leaders and employees where it's hitting closest to home. Today 15 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: we bring you the stories of Matthias Clink, CTO and 16 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 1: co founder of past Base, who is working around the 17 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: clock to help employee stuck in Ukraine, as well as 18 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: Russian employees who have fled the country. Also joining us 19 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: in Samir, a product designer at Salondo who's also a 20 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: Russian citizen. And relocated to Germany back in August, but 21 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 1: still has family and friends in Russia. Mattias and Essa, 22 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: thank you both so much for joining us and as 23 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: I want to start with you, you decided to leave 24 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 1: Russia months ago because you felt this tension escalating. Your 25 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: parents are still there, your friends are still there. How 26 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: are you doing and how are they doing? Um? Well, 27 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: thank you for asking. It's it has been complicated, of course, 28 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: so I hope for the best. That's what I can say. 29 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: President Putin, we're hearing could soon declare marks a law. 30 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: He is already cracking down on the media. This means that, 31 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: you know, the borders could be closed. Um, it could 32 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: be more difficult to protest illegal Uh to protest. I 33 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:15,519 Speaker 1: know one of your friends I believe, was arrested for protesting. 34 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:20,679 Speaker 1: What do you think, What do you think about all this? Well? 35 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: What can I think? Well, it's it's it's awful. It's 36 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: just awful. So I cannot fully believe this situation is happening. So, um, 37 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 1: we all in the country I think just missed this point. 38 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 1: When this the things get so bad and so wrong. Mattis, 39 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: you have both Ukrainian and Russian employees You've got Ukrainian 40 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:46,959 Speaker 1: employees I believe who are still in the country and 41 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: Russian employees who have left. How are you navigating all 42 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: of this and the challenges that both of these employees 43 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: are facing. Yeah, it's, um, of course, like a very 44 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: tough situation. UM. I think what we do in the 45 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: first place is really try to support our team members 46 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 1: with like support and safety. Basically, some of these team members, UM, 47 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: since they're like currency got like incredibly devalued. Basically all 48 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:18,959 Speaker 1: their life savings is like are basically gone. So we're 49 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: like working with them of course in ensuring that they 50 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,959 Speaker 1: still can get their like salary even though some of 51 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: their like financial institutions now are on the sanctional list. 52 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: So this is like one one part of course what 53 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,239 Speaker 1: we do for our Russian team members and in helping 54 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: them and providing them safety. And at the same time, 55 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: of course we're working both with the Ukrainians and Russians 56 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: and helping them to relocate if they want that. Um, 57 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: some of them can't, so, especially like the ones who 58 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: are in Ukraine, UM, they're basically sent back at the 59 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: border and almost called to arms and told that they 60 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: have to fight. And it's of course like a very 61 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: test situation for them as well. So that's in that 62 00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 1: sense what we're trying to do is um how helped 63 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: them at least um to stay and find a location 64 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: where they can work from you like see that they 65 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: can have access to internet, um and and just like 66 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: trying to somehow manage the situation with them together. You're 67 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: a young startup, I mean, are you saying that these 68 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: employees they're still working, they're still shipping code, doing their 69 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: jobs in the middle of a war. Yeah, this is 70 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: pretty much insane. It's about like thirty of our of 71 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: our engineering team as either Russian or Ukrainian, and you 72 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: can imagine probably that the productivity is far more than 73 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: like even more impacted by that. And it doesn't even 74 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 1: stop there, you know, like we have team members also 75 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 1: in Buphrenia and some countries close by or human Germany, 76 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: um and pretty much everyone here in Europe is like 77 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: heavily heavily impacted by this situation. And on the one 78 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: side tries to support our team members who are like 79 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: literally in the midst of this, but also we as 80 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: like a leadership team of course provide um um the 81 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 1: space that they can show Basically um, their support for them. 82 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: And and also um, we canceled meetings that they can 83 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: go on protests for example here in Berlin. So this 84 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 1: is at least the minimum what we as a company 85 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 1: can do is creating the space for them to to 86 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 1: so social engagement here. And as your friends who are 87 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,239 Speaker 1: still in Russia, your parents who are still in Russia, 88 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: are they trying to leave? Do they want to leave? 89 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: Do some of them support this war? I know many 90 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: many people do not. Yeah, that's true, many people do 91 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: not support the war. And none of their friends and 92 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: my family, none of the people if my clothes circle 93 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 1: is support. But I hear the stories also from some 94 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: of my friends that they do not speak with their 95 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: parents anymore because the parents see it tends to see 96 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: the situation differently. So um, and yeah, the majority of 97 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: people is trying to escaped Russia right now, I would 98 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: say that almost how of my closest circle managed to 99 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 1: escape in Armenia and Georgia and closest countries. Of course, 100 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: it's not that easy with my parents because they had 101 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: already they retired. Um, so I don't really know how 102 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: to support them in this situation. So um, But yeah, 103 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: these sanctions are getting tougher every day sanctions coming in 104 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: from them around the world. How is this impacting everyday Russians? 105 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: Obviously the target is wealthier Russians, but how is this 106 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: impacting the people that you know who maybe had nothing 107 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: to do with this? Yeah, that's that's true. It impacts 108 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:55,359 Speaker 1: people in every way. So basically, my parents lost almost 109 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: all of the savings just basically overnight or in the 110 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: in the course of livel last week. The same I 111 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: can say with some of my friends also, a lot 112 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: of them was receiving their salaries in Russian troubles. So 113 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: also with all this situation, with the companies starting to 114 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: prove stopping to provide their services in the country, Uh, 115 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: we can already see a lot of change, and I 116 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: think it's going to be only more of them unfortunately, Mattias, 117 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: is there any way that you can describe ideologically how 118 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 1: this is impacting your company, given how much of your 119 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: team is Ukrainian or Russian and how emotionally difficult this is. Yeah, 120 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: and so absolutely. Um. I mean what we also offered 121 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 1: is of course mental health support to all our team 122 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: members were affected by that, and um it's it's just 123 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: like a really tough time, and um, I think we 124 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: just need to help key members really to go through 125 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: this this tough time and help them and not only 126 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 1: them but also like their relatives, um to come to 127 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: Germany if it's possible, and relocate them if they want that. 128 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: But it's it's just like such a such a such 129 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: a sad thing, what's happening right now, And it's it's 130 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: at the same time, you also feel like a feeling 131 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: of like powerlessness, um because you only have like very 132 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: limited impact on that here from from from from Germany. Basically, 133 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: how concerned should we be about the tech industry given 134 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 1: the deep bench of tech talent in this country, in 135 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: both of these countries, and the fact that they these 136 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: people are working for companies global companies around the world. 137 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: Are are you worried for? Uh? You know the supply, 138 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 1: You know that the great talent that all of these 139 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:57,959 Speaker 1: developers and engineers and product designers UM possess and have 140 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: to give back to the world. M So, so what 141 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: I think what is going to happen likely in the 142 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: next coming of weeks is of course that more team 143 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: members will try to either leave Russia and Ukraine to 144 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: more western European countries and I think this is also 145 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:14,959 Speaker 1: what in as I just touched upon that some of 146 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: her friends already tried to to leave. So I think 147 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: in the short term this is of course there's like 148 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: a high impact, especially for teams like us who have 149 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 1: um a lot of team members in one of those countries. Um. 150 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: Long term, I think, and this is already what we 151 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: saw from the European Union, which I strongly welcomed, is 152 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: that we are like very very like friendly towards giving 153 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 1: visas towards those people impacted by the situation. And um, 154 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: I think this is absolutely the right move to to 155 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: like protect civilians and allowed them basically to escape from 156 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:53,199 Speaker 1: this tragedy and and bad situation in those countries. And 157 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: as you have leafter country, your parents are still there, 158 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: your friends are still there. How do you see your 159 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: near future? How do you imagine this ending? That's a 160 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: tough question. Um. Of course I will try to help 161 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: my friends to escape. I helped them to get the 162 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 1: job in Germany. Um, with the parents, it's much difficult 163 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: because as I sat there in the or quite an 164 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: old age right now, my only hope right that when 165 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: this situation would started to decrease, I mean the heat 166 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: of it. Um that maybe some countries would will still 167 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: open their borders. We'll still have the old borders opened 168 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 1: with Russia, and I can at least, um like, invite 169 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 1: my my parents there and we can meet during a 170 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: short vacation. That's all I can hope or right now 171 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 1: probably no more. Do you think you'll ever go back 172 00:10:55,600 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: to Russia? Um, that's also a tough hian. I don't 173 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: think so. Like so, I wouldn't say like never, but 174 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: unless this regime is um is in power, I would 175 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: rather not too. I would go there only if I 176 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: definitely have to do it, like I have some family 177 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 1: business to do. But personally I'm afraid of my safety 178 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,599 Speaker 1: if I would go there, I would I cannot be 179 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 1: sure that I can get back to Germany and as 180 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: a mere product designer at Salando, Russian citizen Matias clank 181 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: Cyto and co founder of past Pace, thank you both 182 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: for joining us for sharing our story. We hope that 183 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: you both stay safe. Much more coming up Bumbloomer Technology. 184 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: Stay with us. This is Bloomberg. Welcome back to Bloomber Technology. 185 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,959 Speaker 1: I'm emily changing in San Francisco. How our investors hedging 186 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: ge political risk in Ukraine are crety. Gupta has been 187 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: digging into that crety. What you've seeing, Yeah, I mean 188 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: it's a pretty straightforward trade here, Emily. You are seeing 189 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: the surging oil price surgeon commandity prices, so naturally you 190 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: do get that exposure in the stock market, but you 191 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 1: will also get it through defense names. It breaks pretty 192 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 1: set a lot of sense as you start to see 193 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: a lot of these European nations really ramp up their 194 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: defense seeing some of those lessons from Ukraine, Naturally they 195 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: go to the number one maker or export i should say, 196 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,679 Speaker 1: of defense kind of companies now, of course, as the 197 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 1: United States. So check out this e T F the 198 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 1: three major e T s. You can see the flows 199 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 1: have just skyrocketed, going back all the way two years, 200 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: moves that you haven't even seen during the trade war 201 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:38,959 Speaker 1: between the Nine States and China. But this isn't the 202 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 1: only kind of defense they're looking at. Emily. We are 203 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: on day nine of the Russia and Ukraine war, and 204 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: you can see very clearly people are betting on cyber 205 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: security as a really key piece of that defense strategy. 206 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: And of course we do know that Russia does have 207 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: an upper hand. They are very strategic in using cybersecurity measures. 208 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: That has been one of their criticism in the past. 209 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,199 Speaker 1: So if you actually look at the stocks coming we're 210 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 1: saying the past two weeks, for example, you can really 211 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 1: see that these uh names, names like Paula Alto, crowd Strike, 212 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 1: that really kind of specialized in cybersecurity, they're the ones 213 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: that are getting the bid. Basically an assumption that a 214 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 1: lot of corporate America is going to start looking to 215 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: cybersecurity names to ramp up their own defense systems. Emily, Okay, pretty, 216 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: thank you for that round up. Meantime, the tech world 217 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 1: has wasted little time announcing plans to cut business ties 218 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 1: with Russia over this unprovoked invasion of Ukraine. Just this 219 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: week we saw Apple, Oracle, Disney, met At, Spotify, Microsoft, 220 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 1: just to name a few. But not everyone is following suit. 221 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 1: Earlier this week, the CEO of we Work had this 222 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:42,079 Speaker 1: to say on Bloomberg. We have just four locations in Moscow. 223 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: We're doing incredibly well. We are as a right now 224 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,079 Speaker 1: over nine de percent occupied. It's a small part of 225 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: our business. Uh. You know, the revenue is about top 226 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,719 Speaker 1: line revenues about ten million dollars on our base of 227 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 1: several billion dollars, so it's a very small part of 228 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: our business, so you know, not much of a financial 229 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: low business. In back to our business. Since that comment, 230 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 1: we Work announced it's partnering with the UN to help 231 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: the more than one million refugees who fled Ukraine, adding 232 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: it's also offering flex space across Eastern Europe to displaced 233 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: Ukrainian businesses. However, we work still operating in Russia. I 234 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: want to talk more about all of this with Alfred Trong, 235 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: general partner at Race Capital. Alfred, I want to start 236 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: a big picture we are witnessing. You are no stranger 237 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: to witnessing global conflict and the impact on global and 238 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: local economies. Just how chilling do you think the impact 239 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: of this invasion of Ukraine will be on the global 240 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: economy and on the tech industry. Emily, thank you for 241 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: having me back for good to steal um. Well, this 242 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: this is a very personal metaphor me because I when 243 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: I will see you a b a system. Uh. In 244 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: September eleven, we lost the employees one of the Towel, 245 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: one of flight and free so um, I like a 246 00:14:57,520 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: part of me have ever died when those kind of 247 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: things happened, And I have to be the one to 248 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: call it a family. It was very very tough time 249 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: and you know what these are chilling experience and memory. 250 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: So for me, UM, I think this impact is going 251 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: to be a very long term and very big. UM. 252 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: I've been wanting our own companies and also that will 253 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: have offices and employees in the Ukraine for quite sometimes 254 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: since early January, to take measure and set a backup 255 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: plans for having backup offices in neighboring countries. I think, goodness, 256 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: at this point, I have we have everyone accounted for 257 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: and they have now since safely have been in moved 258 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: to safe places and they continue have been able to 259 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: resume working. But it's an extremely scary time. Money has 260 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: been pouring into startups over the last couple of years. 261 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: Do you think that's going to slow down? UM? I 262 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: think UM likely not because of justice invasion. UM, without 263 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: any doubts. UM. We are going to be seeing, um, 264 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: some of the softening and the ipeo market. You know, 265 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: some people believe the ipeo market is temporary close so 266 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: when you have liquidity kind of all sudden drying up. 267 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: We will be seeing some late stage deals softening up 268 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: on valuations or maybe even having some early signs of 269 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: you know, difficulty and fundraising, but it's going to take 270 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: a long time before it trigger down to the early 271 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: stage deals. In particular, I think most of the venture 272 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: investor have raised a lot of money for at this time, 273 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: so we have a lot of dry power to continue 274 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: to invest in companies. Um the view of investment those 275 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: company obviously over time will change, you know, because think 276 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: about this like our own company and that web that 277 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: buys them like take to take everything about the sanction 278 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: very seriously. So if they are selling two Russias, they 279 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: will have to be very careful and we have to 280 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: assume some of those customers will have to say goodbye 281 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 1: to so that will have impact. The European market has 282 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: been extremely hard for early stage slide of for the 283 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: last fel of months. There's no doubt that will be 284 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: impacted in this coming year, you know, the rest of 285 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: twenties two, So those impact we're going to be feeling 286 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: pretty well. So full startups, I all advise them to 287 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: be careful with their cash and to have you know, 288 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: ample run ray and be careful if they want to 289 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: be going out to fundraise, to do it early and 290 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: do it diligently. Now. We just went through the list 291 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: of businesses cutting ties to Russia. I spoke with Brian Chesky, 292 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: the CEO of Airbnb, just a couple of days ago, 293 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: and asked whether or not Airbnb would cut off service 294 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: to Russia. Take a listen to what he had to say, 295 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: just a couple of days ago. Are you willing to 296 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 1: consider uh, you know, tougher self shanctioning in Russia, even 297 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: though you know, you know it sounds like hosts are 298 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 1: limited right now based on what they can do, But 299 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: would Airbnb consider going so far as to cut off 300 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,119 Speaker 1: the service. I think all things are on the table 301 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,199 Speaker 1: right now, so we're really focused right now. I've been 302 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: working around the clock with the team to try to 303 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: figure out how can we have a hundred thousand refugees 304 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: from Ukraine. But we have another team working with local 305 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 1: governments and really trying to answer these questions. And if 306 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 1: we have an update, we'll certainly let you know. Brian 307 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: Tansky tweeting last night that Airbaby is indeed now cutting 308 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: off service to Russia and Belarus, is this something that 309 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: you think all companies should be doing? Well, that's that's 310 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: definitely the advice I've been giving to your own startup CEO. 311 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: So we actually most of our company have come to 312 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: me over the loss Um weekend. In particular, we're seeing 313 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,640 Speaker 1: open source companies seeing huge amount of package download from 314 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 1: Russia and some of the see what was calling me 315 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:41,439 Speaker 1: and said what should I do? So I've been advising 316 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: them as at this point in time, you must block 317 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: because we honestly don't know how to sanction you know, 318 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: where does it lie and what our responsibility of. But 319 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 1: you know, we also have to play our part right, 320 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: so what is right has to be right. I mean, 321 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 1: this is a time where we all have to step up, 322 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: you know, to have more engages to know what's the 323 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,040 Speaker 1: right thing to do. And one of the thing I 324 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,120 Speaker 1: would like to add though, the Russian people are innocence right, 325 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: so most of them they have nothing to do with 326 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,239 Speaker 1: this wall. So we we we've got to be very 327 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: careful we don't ended up discriminating. Many of our friends 328 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: that are good friends are doing the right thing that Russians, 329 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,199 Speaker 1: so we've got to have that distinction, very very careful. Right, 330 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 1: there's a line between you know, a fine line between 331 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: who is this affecting and clearly these sanctions are impacting 332 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: a lot of everyday Russian citizens. To that point, how 333 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 1: much money is in the venture capital ecosystem, how much 334 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: Russian money is in the venture capital ecosystem, and should 335 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: founders be questioning whether to take that money, should they 336 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: return that money? Yeah? So for us obviously for us, 337 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: we have never taken any of the Russian money um 338 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: for our fun for the people to invest in our fun. 339 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 1: I'm sure that through this time they are people that 340 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: directly and directly have invested into venture capital, directly in 341 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: the direct us in the companies over this time. But 342 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:00,479 Speaker 1: I think those are the things where we need our 343 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: government to guide us to know what's going to be 344 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: that lining and money that they have taken to actually 345 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 1: ingrained in the spending of the company, What do we 346 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: do with them? Those obviously are not for me to judge. 347 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: Those are actually we need um guidance from the State 348 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: Department and you know exactly what to do. I mean, 349 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: we we've seen this movie before. We have you know, 350 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: the serverest, you know when we have shut down, you know, 351 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: funding from China and then I think overall very smoothly 352 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: industry and also you know the tech companies were able 353 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: to direct very quickly and we'll be able to tuck 354 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: right in line and be able to comply to all 355 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: the all the needs. At this point in time, I 356 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,159 Speaker 1: think we're still too early. It's very chaotic. I think 357 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: the most important thing to do is to worry about 358 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: the people. If we have employees, when we have companies, 359 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 1: we have founders who have to make sure that them 360 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:49,400 Speaker 1: and their families are safe. That's job one. What about 361 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: venture capitalists? Venture capitalists are very powerful, They've got a 362 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 1: lot of money. They're typically more quiet. Should they be 363 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,719 Speaker 1: taking action cutting ties? Uh, you know, pulling people out 364 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: of funs, you know, cutting off partnerships. Um, Actually, I 365 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: think some of them must not as far as you think. 366 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: I know that I have good friends. You know, they've 367 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: went very large funds, They've been very active, They've created email. 368 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: It is, there's a lot of actions have been taken 369 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 1: to help the Ukrainian people, you know, during the situation. Now, 370 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 1: I'm sure that I think in the days and the 371 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: weeks to come, we're gonna see actions from venture funds 372 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: of taking actions. You know, also in terms of sunctioning 373 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: what the Russian money coming in. We all have to 374 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: do our part. It can be just you know, at 375 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: a very very macro level. You know, I think at 376 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: a fine green level, we all have to do our part. 377 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: I'm sure this is coming. Alfred Trunk, Race Capital General partner, 378 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 1: thank you for sharing your prospective here with us. Coming up, 379 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:46,120 Speaker 1: we're gonna be doing my crack and CEO Jesse Pale 380 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 1: a deep dive on the role of crypto in the 381 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 1: Russian invasion and the Ukrainian resistance and how is crypto 382 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 1: exchange is navigating the crisis and calls to cut Russia off. 383 00:21:55,960 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. The crypto industry has gotten a lot 384 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: of attention after Russia's invasion of Ukraine, some government officials 385 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: wondering whether Russia or the country's tycoons might be able 386 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 1: to skirt sanctions using crypto, and Ukraine actively seeking donations 387 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,359 Speaker 1: via digital assets. But finance, coin based cracking and more 388 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: have come out against blanket bands on Russian users. I 389 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: want to bring in cracking CEO Jesse Powell for more 390 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 1: on this. Look. Jess, you've been very clear that cracking 391 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:43,920 Speaker 1: won't freeze the accounts of general Russian users. Given the 392 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: events of the last twenty four hours, Putin's escalation of 393 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 1: this war. Does your position on that still stand? They 394 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: still stand? You know, It's it's really hard to know 395 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: as a private business, you know, which doesn't have a 396 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:02,640 Speaker 1: major global geopolitical analyst function inside of trying to evaluate 397 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: these these situations play by play. Um. You know, we 398 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 1: look at our role as being able to follow executive 399 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: orders from the White House, being able to follow O 400 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,679 Speaker 1: fak and and sanctions coming from the government. We're very 401 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 1: happy to comply with those. We've got a long history 402 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: of working with governments and law enforcement. Um, but to 403 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: ourselves just decide to impose account freezes on individual Russians 404 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: who probably don't support this invasion. I think it's a 405 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,439 Speaker 1: bit a step too far. And you know, it's freezing 406 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 1: someone's finances is more than just sort of stopping selling 407 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,880 Speaker 1: them shoes or uh, photo filters. You know, it's it's 408 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: a pretty extreme measure, and uh, we won't do it until, 409 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: um we're forced to do it by the government. We 410 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,959 Speaker 1: know the Department of Justice is going after luxury assets 411 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: of Russian tycoons, including crypto assets. Have you been contacted 412 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: by enforcement officials? Are you cooperating and what do you 413 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: think the role is of exchanges in that respect. Yeah, 414 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 1: I mean Cracking dealt with law enforcement requests last year. UM, 415 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 1: so we're in regular contact with with law enforcement and 416 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: regulators and governments around the world pretty much at all times. 417 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: You know, we get more than ten requests per business day, 418 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,880 Speaker 1: so we're actively in communication. We've got a seven compliance 419 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: team of over six hundred people who is monitoring the 420 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,239 Speaker 1: situation and ready to respond to sanctions or any kind 421 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,920 Speaker 1: of executive order coming from the government. UM. As a 422 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: US based company, we're obviously following the rules of the 423 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: United States, and so when we hear from the government 424 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 1: that there's something to do, we will comply and and 425 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,880 Speaker 1: we'll do that. Do you see the legal risk though 426 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: as escalating? And are you consulting with officials actively to 427 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: assess that and figure out what Cracking should be doing. 428 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: It's it's an ordinary course of business for us. Is 429 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 1: not really anything special to do here. We're monitoring the situation. UM. 430 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: You know, we're sort of passive here and that the 431 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: government can contact us at any time. We have regular 432 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: contact with the government, UM and many governments around the world, 433 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 1: and so UM there's not sort of an active dialogue 434 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: going on about what we're going to do outside of 435 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 1: any kind of formal regulatory requirement. Now ch Analysis is 436 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: reporting data that shows Russians residents and sanctions hit Russia, 437 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: they're not in a hurry to trade on crypto exchanges. 438 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: Is that what you're seeing? What color can you give 439 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: us on volume and liquidity? Well, you know, cracking doesn't 440 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 1: have a ruble market, and so if Russians did historically 441 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 1: want to get money into Cracking, they would have to 442 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 1: be going through the Euro or the dollar, you know, 443 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: generally through the Swift wire system to get money in. 444 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,159 Speaker 1: And now that banks are shut off from Swift in Russia, 445 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 1: it's going to be very hard for people in Russia 446 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: to get money out of the country and into the 447 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 1: global crypto ex changes. So I think they're gonna have 448 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: a tough time there. Um, we haven't seen much activity 449 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: coming out of Russia. You know, people might have already 450 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: had their money in cracking. They're still free to trade it, 451 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: they're free to withdraw their cryptocurrency out of cracking, but um, 452 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: there hasn't been a lot of activity, and I think 453 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: that's largely due to to the sanctions that are in 454 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: place now on the banking system. People just can't get 455 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: their money in and out of the country now. And 456 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,400 Speaker 1: what about crypto going in and out of Ukraine. Obviously 457 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: we know that uh Ukraine has raised millions of dollars 458 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: worth of digital assets. What kind of volume in liquidity 459 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 1: are you seeing there? Yeah, huge ticket activity around the Ukraine. Obviously, 460 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: tens of millions of dollars have been donated directly with cryptocurrency, 461 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: and I think that's an amazing story to follow that 462 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: the government has directly raised money from all over the 463 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 1: world to to finance the defense and people are able 464 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,680 Speaker 1: to through through crypto crowdfunding, able to to support people 465 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: directly without any sort of intermediary um. And you know, 466 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 1: we saw something similar in Canada as well, when when 467 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 1: the government of Canada sanctioned its own citizens and turned 468 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,959 Speaker 1: off protesters from the banking system. Cryptocurrency was there too 469 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: to continue to support people and be that financial rail 470 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: of last resort, you know, where the government had provoked 471 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: those permissions. Ukraine is calling for more crypto donations, not 472 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 1: just in the form of bitcoin, but does and tether. 473 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: We've seen some mixed results here. Do you see the 474 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 1: scope of digital assets as a force for good or 475 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: is it more complicated than that. Definitely a force for good. 476 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 1: I think currency choice generally is a force for good. 477 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,639 Speaker 1: I think the um the sort of d weaponization of 478 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 1: the financial system is a good thing. And you know, 479 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: we look at sanctions against Russia as generally a good thing, 480 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: a good way to to non violently, non physically respond 481 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: to uh, you know policy that we don't like. Um, well, 482 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: those those same weapons that we impost on Russia. The 483 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 1: sanctions can also be imposed against your own citizens, and 484 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: we've seen this happen in many countries around the world, 485 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: obviously Canada most recently, but um. You know, often regimes 486 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 1: turn inward against their own people. And when that happens, Um, 487 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 1: once funds are frozen, it's very hard to leave that situation. 488 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: And so cryptocurrency is something that sort of exists as 489 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: sort of cash under the mattress. UM. You know that 490 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: you can take with you if you want to get 491 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,679 Speaker 1: out of a bad situation. If your bank account has 492 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: been frozen without due process. You know, when your funds 493 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 1: are frozen without due process, that means it's on you 494 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: to go back and fight to get that back, and 495 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: without any money to do that, you know, you're worried 496 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: about feeding your family. You don't have money to pay 497 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: a lawyer to try to go get your money back 498 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,959 Speaker 1: that's been frozen in your bank account. So I think 499 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 1: a lot of people are looking at crypto now as 500 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: as a sort of backup plan, you know, as an 501 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 1: insurance policy against their government turning against them. What's your 502 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: take on the macro risks right now, though, What are 503 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: you most concerned about, especially as it pertains to cryptocurrency. 504 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: I know you and I have had a lot of 505 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: conversations about price and bitcoin going to the moon, in 506 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 1: your words, and we've certainly seen bitcoin rallying but then 507 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: also pull back. Are you concerned about the risks to 508 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: crypto given what we're seeing in global equities? No, you know, 509 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,239 Speaker 1: I think I think you just look at the long 510 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: term tenure chart of bitcoin, and you know, it's outperforming 511 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: everything else in the world, So I'm not worried about it. 512 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: And these kinds of geopolitical problems you know we're seeing 513 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: with Canada and Russia are great examples of where bitcoin 514 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 1: really shines, you know, outside of being a speculative asse 515 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: at it's really solving real problems for people on the ground. 516 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 1: And I think the more people are going to see that, 517 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: and it's going to become an even bigger thing as 518 00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: people look to bitcoin as a safe haven. Crack and 519 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 1: CEO Jesse Powell, Jesse, always good to have you here. 520 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: Thanks for sharing your perspective with us, appreciate it. In 521 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: early March, Apple plans to unveil an iPhone SC with 522 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 1: five G, but the big announcement should really be a 523 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: significant price cut to the current SC. The model currently 524 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 1: costs four, but if Apple really wanted to, it can 525 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: lower the current model to two and turn it into 526 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: a full featured, low price phone for areas like South America, 527 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 1: parts of Asia and Africa that are currently Android strongholds. 528 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: Two phone would make the current SC an extremely hot 529 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: seller to those who don't need the functionality of five 530 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: G or a thousand dollar plus iPhone thirteen. By expanding 531 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 1: its user base with a two indre dollar device, Apple 532 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: could create more long term services revenue and add way 533 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: more people to its ecosystem fairly quickly. Dropping the price 534 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: of the an SC two bucks would also give Apple 535 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: an easy answer to its iPod touch conundrum that would 536 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 1: allow the company to quite frankly discontinue the three year 537 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: old iPod at the same price. Such a device could 538 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: also greatly assist Apple in India. That's a market that 539 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: Apple once talked up as it's next China, but one 540 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 1: that's really been a bit of a roller coaster for 541 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 1: the company in recent years. Recent data points the sub 542 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: five percent market share for Apple in India, but the 543 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,479 Speaker 1: average phone price in the country is now about two 544 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 1: meaning that Apple could potentially have a winner on its 545 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: hands there with a nice price cut. Still, it's unclear 546 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: if Apple actually ever do this, but there may be 547 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: no better time than this March, when Apple plans to 548 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: release a new high end five G I phone sc 549 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: I'm Mark Erman. This is power On. Don't forget. You 550 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: can subscribe to Mark's weekly power On newsletter at Bloomberg 551 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: dot com and we'll be following that Apple event next week. 552 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: Apple updating its return to office policy meantime, the company 553 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: setting April eleven as the deadline for operate employees to 554 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: return to in person work at least one day a week, 555 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 1: marking a key test of whether the tech giant can 556 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 1: re establish office life in a post pandemic era. This 557 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 1: coming a few days after Google sets its own return 558 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: to office for April four, and Meta is actively looking 559 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: at halting all advertising in Russia. A Corey, a vice 560 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 1: president for Global Business Nicola Mendelssohn. She spoke to my 561 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: colleague Caroline Hyde earlier. Take a listen to what she 562 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 1: had to say about Meta's actions when it comes to 563 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 1: advertising in Russia. To listen. We are taking extensive steps 564 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 1: across all of our apps to ensure the safety of 565 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: our community and also to support the people who are 566 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: using our services, both in the Ukraine and all over 567 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: the world as well. We've established a special operations center. 568 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: It's working around the clock. It's responding to activity that 569 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: we're seeing on our platforms in real time, and we're 570 00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 1: really closely, you know, monitoring the situation. We'll be monitoring that, 571 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: of course. I'm Emily Chang. This is Bloomberg