Speaker 1: You know what that means. It's time for a brand
Speaker 1: new episode of The Draft Show, presented by Miller Lite.
Speaker 1: I am David Hellman. I assume most people listening to
Speaker 1: this are listening and not watching. But Jeff Kavanaugh with
Speaker 1: the very very animated introductions for everybody over here in
Speaker 1: the studio, Brian brought us Kyle Yeoman's guys. I'm coming
Speaker 1: back from a brief vacation. So I feel like it's
Speaker 1: been a minute. It's good to see y'all. What's going on.
Speaker 1: Great to see you as well. Do you have fun?
Speaker 1: I did? Yeah, it was really great, just letting y'all
Speaker 1: handle all the free agency madness, every all of the
Speaker 1: anger and angst. And that was a pretty well timed vacation.
Speaker 1: I'm not mad about it. I'm not mad about it.
Speaker 1: How are we doing? Brian doing great? Just kind of
Speaker 1: banging through these guys. Man, this you're gonna wake up
Speaker 1: one day and it's going to be the Draft. Yeah,
Speaker 1: tell me about it. It's much twenty second and then
Speaker 1: that's what's crazy about this. And you know you're getting
Speaker 1: the pro days knocked out. These quarterbacks are all going
Speaker 1: this week Texas A and m Rolls with a couple
Speaker 1: of guys that you're gonna have Coach is probably interested in. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a good week. I'll give you you
Speaker 1: know what, we'll play choose our own adventure today because
Speaker 1: there's a few things I want to hit you kind
Speaker 1: of alluded to it right there. We can start with
Speaker 1: sort of a Pro day wrap up, because there's actually
Speaker 1: a decent amount of things happening in the world of
Speaker 1: Pro days right now. Or we can sort of look
Speaker 1: at what the Cowboys have done since y'all were last
Speaker 1: on the air in terms of free agency and how
Speaker 1: that affects our thoughts on the draft. What would you
Speaker 1: rather do first, We're gonna do both. Yeah, talk about
Speaker 1: your football team. Okay, talk about your football teams because
Speaker 1: that might carry you to what you might do in
Speaker 1: the future. Which it's actually I can hear. I can
Speaker 1: hear the eye rolls from here about how significant the
Speaker 1: moves are. But it was a busy few days for
Speaker 1: the Cowboys getting pretty involved. Literally right after y'all go
Speaker 1: off the air on Thursday, they start adding James Washington,
Speaker 1: Dante Fowler come on from outside the team. They bring
Speaker 1: back Layton vander esh on a one year deal. Yesterday
Speaker 1: we find out that Jay Curse is also back on
Speaker 1: a two year deal. So primarily defensive signings, addressing some
Speaker 1: of the problem spots on the defensive side of the ball,
Speaker 1: also adding a third receiver to go behind Michael Gallup
Speaker 1: and Ceedee Lamb. How and for my money, this is
Speaker 1: this is quintessential Cowboys in the sense that most of
Speaker 1: these guys are going to fail your hole the holes
Speaker 1: on your roster without changing your draft strategy. You're not
Speaker 1: going to go away from somebody in the draft because
Speaker 1: James Washington is here. I assume that's how y'all see it,
Speaker 1: but I don't know. Take me through it. How do
Speaker 1: you feel about these guys? I kind of think that
Speaker 1: the three guys you signed Vandresh, Washington and Fowler could
Speaker 1: all be replaced with draft picks. This is the Will McClay.
Speaker 1: I'm going to protect myself going in. I'm not married
Speaker 1: to any one of these guys. If Dan Quinn somehow
Speaker 1: magically makes Fowler play really well, then say Washington fits
Speaker 1: into what they're trying to do in the room, then
Speaker 1: you know, maybe that's the possibility of those guys. But
Speaker 1: this is right, This is the Cowboys just protecting themselves
Speaker 1: in case things don't work out like they need to
Speaker 1: in the draft, and Fowler is very Cowboys where it's
Speaker 1: former top five pick has had NFL success, but for
Speaker 1: two years he hadn't been a good NFL player and
Speaker 1: so hey, but he's going with dan Quinn now, and
Speaker 1: so he's gonna be Dorance Armstrong, I think is clearly
Speaker 1: like starting over Dante Fowl. I left out Dorrence. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: good good called Dorance Armstrong also agreeing to come. That's
Speaker 1: going to be a rotation, but yeah, Armstrong would be
Speaker 1: that number one in that road time. I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people hear the name Dante Fowler and it's like, heck, yeah, dude,
Speaker 1: we got our other starting defensive end. And I'm like, hey,
Speaker 1: I don't think you did. I think you got a fun,
Speaker 1: athletic speed rusher that at one time was really effective.
Speaker 1: And that one time was three and four years ago.
Speaker 1: So he's not too old to still be good at football.
Speaker 1: So there's reason for optimism. But you did not get
Speaker 1: at a top two defensive end on your team. Now.
Speaker 1: This is this is dan Quinn doing a great job
Speaker 1: last year bringing guys on and so Will's asking him, Hey, Dan,
Speaker 1: what do you think Fowler's out there? You have any
Speaker 1: interested Yeah, I know the kid. I could probably help him.
Speaker 1: This is where you, like last year, we weren't talking
Speaker 1: about curse. The curse signing was. We were thinking all
Speaker 1: the bad safeties that they'd always signed and this wasn't
Speaker 1: going to work. I know when Jeff and I were
Speaker 1: doing radio together, it was more about, well, this is
Speaker 1: a special teams guy. This is a guy though maybe
Speaker 1: a special teams guy. You know, if he had to
Speaker 1: play safety, you were going to be like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: what's he doing out there? Kind of thing. So this
Speaker 1: is your hope that maybe Dan Quinn continues the magic
Speaker 1: of picking guys that he formally had and then making
Speaker 1: it work and to continue the hope train. I think
Speaker 1: James Washington's kind of the same thing. Yeah, James Washington
Speaker 1: is a guy that trying. I'm really trying, Kyle, maybe
Speaker 1: you can help me out. You're a pro broadcaster more
Speaker 1: than I am. Okay, I'm trying to find a way
Speaker 1: to be nicer about saying he's never been a good
Speaker 1: NFL player like James Washington. You're right, that's not very nice.
Speaker 1: He's been. He's been, he's been on a roster mediocre
Speaker 1: along the way, right, that's the best way to put it. So,
Speaker 1: like James Washington, however you want to measure it for
Speaker 1: NFL receiver play has not been good. But where you
Speaker 1: would draw hope if it was like, Okay, he's going
Speaker 1: to be the Cowboys third receiver, then you would be
Speaker 1: leaning on I think, well, I remember in college he's
Speaker 1: not a burner, but he was a really good deep threat,
Speaker 1: Like he made plays down the field. He was in
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh with an old man whose arm was shot, and
Speaker 1: so you can, like you can rationalize your way to
Speaker 1: thinking he could be decent here, but he's not. I
Speaker 1: don't think he's a starter on your team. No, I
Speaker 1: think you're drafting one. Jeff's right. I mean, he's never
Speaker 1: developed a game underneath. There's never been a shorter intermediate
Speaker 1: game to him. You know when you talk to the
Speaker 1: guys that pro evaluators around the league and they say,
Speaker 1: sometimes he doesn't even catch the ball deep. Now you
Speaker 1: know that's thing again, This is this is a this
Speaker 1: is one of those signings inexpensive if it doesn't work,
Speaker 1: if the fifth receivers six receivers better that you found Boom,
Speaker 1: you move on. I'm also I can't help but think
Speaker 1: about the fact that the Steelers are gods at finding receivers,
Speaker 1: like they're so good at it. You go back to
Speaker 1: Antonio Brown at least for a season, or Mike whatever.
Speaker 1: I'm just hey, I go on, went back to Hines Ward, Okay, fine,
Speaker 1: Santonio Holme. Santonio was a pretty quick Claypool. Deante Johnson
Speaker 1: is doing it for them, went to a Pro Bowl
Speaker 1: this year. I'm just say he's a third round pick.
Speaker 1: He was drafted after as the league's fault. He told
Speaker 1: him he was drafted after James Washington. That's all I'm
Speaker 1: saying on one of my hits. I'm just saying the
Speaker 1: fact that he has avoweds people were looking for in
Speaker 1: a place like Pittsburgh is interesting to me, not that
Speaker 1: he can't find it here. He was on the back
Speaker 1: end of a career of Ben Roethlisberger, though He's never
Speaker 1: had a quarterback at least in his prime enough like
Speaker 1: Dak Prescott to be able to push it down field exactly,
Speaker 1: and neither could Mason Rudolph either. So either one of
Speaker 1: those guys couldn't find it. This This plays into where
Speaker 1: I wanted to go next, because I think if I'm
Speaker 1: if I'm stacking it, you look at the names we
Speaker 1: all just said, if I'm stacking it, receiver still looks
Speaker 1: to me like the position most in need of a
Speaker 1: draft pick. Of the they haven't signed a guard. I'm
Speaker 1: talking about like the guys that they the positions that
Speaker 1: they have addressed. Yeah, I mean right now, and there's
Speaker 1: still plenty of time left to sign a veteran guard.
Speaker 1: Right now, that left guard spot just looks like hilarious.
Speaker 1: It's a blinking red light in terms of what they
Speaker 1: might want to do in the draft. But so receiver
Speaker 1: to me still looks like a problem spot even with Washington.
Speaker 1: For me, safety, knowing that jay Ron Curse and Malie
Speaker 1: Cooker are both back here on multi year deals, not
Speaker 1: saying you couldn't draft one, but I'm sort of looking
Speaker 1: away from that. And as a guy who just said
Speaker 1: that James Washington's never been good and Dante Feller hasn't
Speaker 1: been good for more than two years, uh, I think
Speaker 1: potentially you can be good at safety. Like Malie Cooker
Speaker 1: was coming along better as the season went along, and
Speaker 1: playing Jayron Curse was great, but I guess the league
Speaker 1: didn't buy into his one year sample size, and so
Speaker 1: you got him on a great bargain. You might be
Speaker 1: really good on the back end. When's the last time
Speaker 1: that we've sat here, legitimately a month away from the
Speaker 1: draft looking at these positions of need and you haven't
Speaker 1: had a secondary position really up at the top of
Speaker 1: the list at All Woods been a long Roy Williams
Speaker 1: and whatever the corners were. Maybe I will take Stingley
Speaker 1: if he comes rolling down, I see. But that's kind
Speaker 1: of the same thing with anything here is if the
Speaker 1: right player is there, don't go away from your board
Speaker 1: picked the best player there. I do think they're short
Speaker 1: and free agency still they need to sign a guard
Speaker 1: because I don't think you can sell yourself or your
Speaker 1: fan base on McGovern because you tried to, tried to
Speaker 1: like it was a we benched a guy, so you're up, buddy,
Speaker 1: and then a couple weeks later like never kidding, I'm
Speaker 1: just about that. I haven't any to sign a guard.
Speaker 1: They could sign a linebacker. You're still short their depth wise.
Speaker 1: But outside of that, feel draft, I don't feel like
Speaker 1: I don't feel good Darius Smith I think is an
Speaker 1: official yet, but I mean he tweeted out a quote
Speaker 1: from the Purple People leaders, so I feel like he's
Speaker 1: probably if I'm not comfortable with what they're they're starting
Speaker 1: defensive ends. Like if you play a numbers game, you
Speaker 1: could go, Okay, my starters are tank endurance, I have
Speaker 1: Golston Basham Fouler. You're almost there. Kind of there. You're
Speaker 1: forgetting a piece of this that I think is important.
Speaker 1: He doesn't play in just talking about the MICA's name
Speaker 1: Michael Parsons, so I guess he's six edges. Like in theory,
Speaker 1: you could go knowing that Micah has that potential. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I kind of feel fine. I'm not saying it's great.
Speaker 1: I'm definitely not is like your standard d N and
Speaker 1: then it's like, hey, we're rushing the pastor and excuse me,
Speaker 1: Mike is basically yeah, I'm going to point out a
Speaker 1: concern we all should have and when it comes to
Speaker 1: this guard position is the fact that the scouts really
Speaker 1: really pushed for McGovern. I mean that grade was a
Speaker 1: one to one. Yeah, that's the top of a second
Speaker 1: round grade. The offensive line coach wanted nothing to do
Speaker 1: with him. Now you're in a position where who is
Speaker 1: going to win this battle? Is Philban gonna win the
Speaker 1: battle over the scouts? So the scout's going to feel
Speaker 1: scarred that they pushed a guy that Philbin didn't like.
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, now you're ine, That's
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Philan wasn't here when Connor McGovern was drafted. No,
Speaker 1: but he but he's but he saw that he got
Speaker 1: to work with the player. Yeah, you know, he basically
Speaker 1: you know, he got to put the player in there
Speaker 1: and then basically then pulled the guy to the point
Speaker 1: where you know, well he's he could basically say also,
Speaker 1: I'm using the word basically a lot. But he says,
Speaker 1: you know, all right, Scouts, I showed you the guy
Speaker 1: can't play. You want me to You want me to
Speaker 1: put another guy in there? You wan to play with
Speaker 1: somebody else. I'm gonna put put Connor, put Connor Williams
Speaker 1: back in there. This is where I worry a little
Speaker 1: bit about such an important position that there might be
Speaker 1: the biggest divide. Well that you Philbin's at the pro
Speaker 1: day of your next left guards. It's a beautiful say.
Speaker 1: If they don't like Green seriously, if they don't like green,
Speaker 1: if that's if that's in fact, maybe scoot on over
Speaker 1: to Boston College. Let's know, that's what I'm saying. I
Speaker 1: worry a little bit because all of a sudden, the
Speaker 1: scouts are thinking, like, we're gonna we like this guy.
Speaker 1: Phillipin's like, you guys blew the McGovern pick, you know,
Speaker 1: and so all of a sudden, now there's there's doubt
Speaker 1: and Jerry Jones mind like, Okay, which way is this
Speaker 1: room going? Right now? That's not a bad point. Somebody,
Speaker 1: somebody criticized me recently because I said Connor mcgoverney, it's fair.
Speaker 1: I said, Connor McGovern has been a disappointment since he
Speaker 1: got drafted, and they were like, well, he was like
Speaker 1: pick ninety, how could you you know? He was? No,
Speaker 1: They're great on him, was a high and I I
Speaker 1: set back was like, look, I get that he was
Speaker 1: a late third round pick, but the hype on this
Speaker 1: guy was that like the league had made this terrible
Speaker 1: mistake letting him fall to that spot. We just used
Speaker 1: Jason Garrett's pet phrase blinking red light, and that hasn't
Speaker 1: been the case. So that does make me curious and
Speaker 1: so Joe Philbin is at he's in college station right now,
Speaker 1: right along with add and Dirty, a lot of prospects
Speaker 1: down there for them to look at. Between the two
Speaker 1: of them. What do you think that process looks like, Well,
Speaker 1: Joe Philbin looking at Kenyon Green and being like, okay,
Speaker 1: this is the guy. They all a yeah. And to
Speaker 1: Jeff's point, then this is where you know, Philbin, this
Speaker 1: is my experience of being in that room. Coaches carry
Speaker 1: a lot of weight. And so what happens is when
Speaker 1: it comes down to scouts might be pushing for Zion Johnson,
Speaker 1: someone like, well, you know, we worked out to Zion
Speaker 1: Johnson and we really like him a lot, and he
Speaker 1: can do this, and he could play tackle, and he
Speaker 1: could do you know, all those things. And you know,
Speaker 1: Philbin might say, no, Green's a better player, and then
Speaker 1: the scouts say, well, he's not athletically a testing a
Speaker 1: better player. You know, what do you want? How do
Speaker 1: you want to play your guys? Joe? What we've learned
Speaker 1: about you is you like the guys to have a
Speaker 1: little mobility and a little you know. And so there's
Speaker 1: going to be an argument there and it might turn
Speaker 1: to the point where they don't. You know, we'll see
Speaker 1: does do they end up with the guy that Joe
Speaker 1: Philbin liked or the guy that the scouts like, and
Speaker 1: maybe maybe they'll like the same guy. Maybe it will
Speaker 1: be the same guy. But you've got a little doubt
Speaker 1: now on my mind because that that you know, they
Speaker 1: they the scouts loved, loved, you know, loved you know,
Speaker 1: the guard governor McGovern and Joe's like, nah, not so much.
Speaker 1: How uncommon is it for there to be like wide
Speaker 1: disagreements about like first round caliber players, you know, like,
Speaker 1: I get it if you're arguing about a guy down
Speaker 1: the line, but one of these guys that you're most
Speaker 1: of the draft community agrees is like a top thirty pick.
Speaker 1: You guys don't have you have a guard in the
Speaker 1: first round? Designed Johnson the first round guard for you guys.
Speaker 1: Yeah him angry? Okay there too. Okay, So you guys
Speaker 1: got first round grades on those guys. So to me,
Speaker 1: if that's the case, that will be interesting that the debate.
Speaker 1: I don't know, we'll see if they have first round
Speaker 1: grades on both those guys. But to me, I kind
Speaker 1: of feel like though that you know, and I know
Speaker 1: in this organization you know, the coaches went down. We've
Speaker 1: seen the drafts before with the Tristan Hills and the
Speaker 1: Tacos and people like that. Coaches went out here and
Speaker 1: it's been that way for a long, long long time.
Speaker 1: You know. Mike McCarthy's now on the road scouting. He
Speaker 1: never had to scout in his life, you know, in
Speaker 1: Green Bay. But he's also probably looking at the situation, like, hmm,
Speaker 1: the thing about replacing me with dan Quinn. Dan Quinn's
Speaker 1: out there every day. Maybe I should get my big
Speaker 1: erer out there and do some scouting. Let me get
Speaker 1: some of these Pennsylvania kids. Yeah, well he's no, he's
Speaker 1: sitting penn State. You know, his schedule is like Penn State.
Speaker 1: Now he's think he's going to Old Miss Pittsburgh, you know,
Speaker 1: yeah those are both on Thursday. Yeah, So I mean
Speaker 1: he's he's you know, he's trying to get out there
Speaker 1: because again, we give dan Quinn a lot of credit
Speaker 1: for the way this defensive side of the ball was shaped.
Speaker 1: Speaking of pro days, speaking of defensive side of the ball, probably,
Speaker 1: I mean, we can hit Kenny Pickett's hand size if
Speaker 1: y'all want to. He got bigger baby his hands magically
Speaker 1: drew a Yeah. Right, But the big development coming from
Speaker 1: the pro day circuit is a crappy one, unfortunately. But
Speaker 1: David Najavo the Michigan Edge towards Achilles during his workout,
Speaker 1: I kinda I hate how callous it is to immediate
Speaker 1: you know, this is this is a life altering injury,
Speaker 1: and they're taking him at fifty six. That's all right,
Speaker 1: I mean that's where I'm going. Four kids, has lost
Speaker 1: a lot of money. Jeff doesn't know how to be nice,
Speaker 1: so just take me there. Poor guy just lost a
Speaker 1: decent amount of money. Uh. It takes I think it
Speaker 1: takes a pretty severe injury to draft to drop your
Speaker 1: draft stock. Because even you remember Jeffrey Simmons the defensive
Speaker 1: tap and he still went like eighteenth overall with the
Speaker 1: torn acl and he got out there for some of
Speaker 1: his rookie year, blown out Achilles in March. You're probably
Speaker 1: red shirting. Yeah, it was a pretty good time to play.
Speaker 1: You're not going to play that. You're not that guy
Speaker 1: at the Rams. Yeah, so you're probably not going to play. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And in David Ojabo's situation especially, I view him as
Speaker 1: a guy that is a rookie would have been a Hey,
Speaker 1: it's time to rush the quarterback, go in there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: not necessarily a let's go play, so right, I think
Speaker 1: he's a designated pass rusher who's going to develop as
Speaker 1: an edge guy who now is going to miss his
Speaker 1: rookie year. So I think his range just went from
Speaker 1: fifteen to twenty five to thirty five to sixty And
Speaker 1: that's I think you're exactly right. And I hate it
Speaker 1: for him because that was the thumbnail on him to
Speaker 1: begin with, was raw guy, not ready, not a lot
Speaker 1: of football. Yeah, and that explosiveness is the one way
Speaker 1: that he consistently wins. And Achilles like an acl I
Speaker 1: go and Achilles at least partially raise an eyebrow, like,
Speaker 1: are you going to fully get that back? Because he
Speaker 1: needs everything he had back. I just and I hope
Speaker 1: not honestly, I hope he gets drafted in the first round.
Speaker 1: That just sup. Everyone goes first overall, but everybody has fun.
Speaker 1: I wonder if the slide could be kind of significant
Speaker 1: because of that, because it's absolutely Jeffrey. Jeffrey Simmons is
Speaker 1: a perfect example where it's like, when this guy's ready again,
Speaker 1: he's going to be a stud whereas they were already
Speaker 1: have five picks, right, But I do think o Job
Speaker 1: was going to slide twenty five. This is a chance
Speaker 1: he even slides a little bit more than that, because
Speaker 1: of the way, like you just outlined it, because of
Speaker 1: the questions that we're already surrounding him in his player profile,
Speaker 1: as he could fall into the third and I wouldn't
Speaker 1: be ultimately surprised. I'd be a little disappointed. I hope
Speaker 1: he didn't pick him at fifty six, that's true, which
Speaker 1: I would like to do. So you, knowing, knowing how
Speaker 1: we feel about how the Cowboys spend their free you're
Speaker 1: drafting a guy at fifty six that's not going to
Speaker 1: help you this year, all freaking that's the scout. If
Speaker 1: you're all freaking day, what if you're wide receivers? There
Speaker 1: your sky More? Yeah maybe mine sky Moore's back. No. No,
Speaker 1: I'm saying though, because you're gonna be a sky More reference.
Speaker 1: See that's what I'm saying, though, I mean to me,
Speaker 1: to me, it's with the Bingo card. Somebody get bingo.
Speaker 1: We're playing that game. There's people on Twitter that were
Speaker 1: like they were count no, but I was just I
Speaker 1: was just curious because to me that you know, maybe
Speaker 1: that's your situation where all of a sudden, you you know,
Speaker 1: you you draft a defensive player in the first you know,
Speaker 1: when those linebackers or somebody like that defense whoever, and
Speaker 1: then you turn on the second round you're thinking, man,
Speaker 1: look at all these receivers here, and now you're you're comparing, like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you know a kid that's not going to play at
Speaker 1: all for you this year? Yeah, I don't. I don't.
Speaker 1: You know, if I'm Mike McCarthy and my job is
Speaker 1: on the line quote air quotes, then I'm not interested
Speaker 1: in having red shirt guys for somebody else. Six is
Speaker 1: our George Picking spot. You know what I'm saying. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a valid criticism of the way the Cowboys do this.
Speaker 1: As again, Jason Garrett off ten years can do this.
Speaker 1: A guy who has some questions about you know, a
Speaker 1: guy on staff, there's a guy sitting and broadcasting, and
Speaker 1: there's a guy on staff that potentially could get the job,
Speaker 1: and forget about I don't have time for red shirt
Speaker 1: and people forgive Mike McCarthy's job security for a second.
Speaker 1: Like the way the Cowboys build this up some players
Speaker 1: they're like, they're like, yeah, we're gonna do just enough
Speaker 1: in free agency, and then when we just knocked the
Speaker 1: draft out of the park, we'll get better. Well, if
Speaker 1: you're drafting a red shirt guy, you're not getting better, Like,
Speaker 1: you're not progressing the roster this year. It might be
Speaker 1: great two years from now, but who's got time for that.
Speaker 1: It makes perfect sense. It makes perfect sense for them
Speaker 1: to draft this kid because the general manager's not going anywhere. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that is I mean, that's why the Cowboys have this reputation. Sure,
Speaker 1: that's why they draft hurt players, because because the front
Speaker 1: office is not going anywhere. God, the the symmetry of
Speaker 1: drafting David Dajabo after an achilles tare at fifty six,
Speaker 1: the year that Randy Gregory, former sixtieth over all pick,
Speaker 1: finally is no longer under contract, that would be That
Speaker 1: would be really fitting. They had to cut Smith's leg
Speaker 1: off on the field literally about thirty four on a
Speaker 1: non premium position. You are not run all right, I'm
Speaker 1: getting sad, So before we do that, let's just take
Speaker 1: a break and then fan questions, We'll be right back.
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Speaker 1: I don't think I have reads for this sec tax season.
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Speaker 1: you can give anybody here. All right, it's the second
Speaker 1: segment of the show. You know what that means, Chris,
Speaker 1: can you help me? I love this question from Sam,
Speaker 1: so I guess this. This happened last week. We are
Speaker 1: aware of this. But the Cowboys did get two extra
Speaker 1: compensatory picks in addition to the pick that they got
Speaker 1: for Kicker. Time to go get punt God, we got
Speaker 1: a package to move up. Sam wants to know realistic
Speaker 1: things you can do with the fives, which I actually
Speaker 1: all the way to threes. You get you get a
Speaker 1: three for you're so damn prepared, Bran. I took the
Speaker 1: liberty of finding the point values. And we know no
Speaker 1: two charts are the same. But the four fifth round
Speaker 1: picks are worth twenty eight, twenty three, nineteen, and a
Speaker 1: little less than nineteen. You are right. If you add
Speaker 1: all of that together, it is worth a low third
Speaker 1: round pick. There you go. Is that really feasible? Like?
Speaker 1: Would would? Would anybody take? Like nobody's trading away from
Speaker 1: a guy? Rams would? Yeah? The Rams might? You're right, Rams, Like, shoot,
Speaker 1: we're gonna trade all of our high picks for superstar players.
Speaker 1: We're gonna pay them, We're gonna backload deals, We're gonna
Speaker 1: move money around. We're gonna draft three starters with eight
Speaker 1: day three picks. It doesn't seem super realizing. It doesn't
Speaker 1: seem super realistic, though, cal Ram, you get the Rams
Speaker 1: third round pick and pick punt guard. The Rams have
Speaker 1: a compensatory pick at one oh four in the third
Speaker 1: back into the third. It's the next to last picks
Speaker 1: the third round. I'm only halfway joking. I'm just sorry.
Speaker 1: Adda Raisa might go in the third round. I think
Speaker 1: he probably will. Like if you wanted to move up
Speaker 1: from your four, if you wanted to, like just watching,
Speaker 1: there's a punter that might be of you. Even when
Speaker 1: you're going and you're grabbing all of those fifth round
Speaker 1: picks where you would probably take a kicker or a
Speaker 1: punter either either way, you're bundling it up and then
Speaker 1: going just outside the top one hundred to take a punter,
Speaker 1: regardless matters. He's a third punter, eighty yard punt. He's
Speaker 1: a phenomenal punny. You go three and out touchback. You
Speaker 1: also had a pro bowler that you could bring back
Speaker 1: at some point. Well, he cost money. He cost five
Speaker 1: million dollars a matter raise, it would cost like six hundred. Okay,
Speaker 1: if that's the case, then yeah, I'm going to get
Speaker 1: punt guard. But we need to hold on to one
Speaker 1: of our fifths so that we can pick a kicker.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. I would go, I would shoot
Speaker 1: this thing back to back punter, and then I boom
Speaker 1: hit that kicker right behind it. If anything, we have
Speaker 1: joined at the hip from then on out. I I
Speaker 1: doubt I always Actually we said it all last year though,
Speaker 1: it's like they're not going to make all eleven of
Speaker 1: those picks, and they did definitely do. But I laying
Speaker 1: toward thinking like they'll use they'll use two of these
Speaker 1: picks to like move up into the four if like
Speaker 1: they did for Tyler Biadas something like third round. You're
Speaker 1: in the third round and you've picked a whatever, You've
Speaker 1: picked a guard, and then you picked a wide receiver.
Speaker 1: You're in the third round. There's a linebacker you like,
Speaker 1: you don't think he's gonna make it to your third
Speaker 1: round pick. You throw them a five. You move up
Speaker 1: three or four spots, you pick your guy. If you're
Speaker 1: if you're really good at this and pro personnel, you
Speaker 1: would identify a backup offensive lineman and another team and
Speaker 1: offer one of those fifth round picks and then take
Speaker 1: it that way and then that way you don't have
Speaker 1: to worry about potentially the guard in the early rounds.
Speaker 1: I'm saying, like, right now, like it over the couple
Speaker 1: of words, you could do a draft weekend quenta five. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: it was the six that went to a five. Maybe
Speaker 1: you could find a team exactly is already thinking about
Speaker 1: Bryce Young and c J. Strouge like Atlanta and maybe Houston,
Speaker 1: and like, do you guys have an aging starting guard? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's good. See that I don't want to win. That's
Speaker 1: what I would do. I mean, maybe knock this thing
Speaker 1: out with one of those fivesco and get you the
Speaker 1: guard and then boom and then you don't have to
Speaker 1: potentially worry about as much going into the draft. Oh
Speaker 1: that would be. That would be smart, smart draft and
Speaker 1: smart personnel. I used to do this a long time ago,
Speaker 1: flip for I would try two year old guard. I
Speaker 1: would try my best, I really would. Corey wants y'all
Speaker 1: to analyze the depth of the receiver class versus the
Speaker 1: depth of the O line class. Again, I think it's
Speaker 1: good and good, very obvious what people are zeroing in
Speaker 1: on in terms of big picks. Guard at guard. I
Speaker 1: don't like it as much outside of the first round
Speaker 1: as I like wide receiver outside of the first round.
Speaker 1: But both of them, like you're gonna find step in
Speaker 1: starters and the third round at both positions, I think
Speaker 1: so like. I don't think there's a drastic difference, but
Speaker 1: there's wide receiver goes ten deep of guys I really like,
Speaker 1: and guard goes two to three deep that I really like.
Speaker 1: So I think wide receiver is deeper with your top
Speaker 1: fifty six picks, because there's at least ten guys that
Speaker 1: I would take at fifty six at play wide receiver,
Speaker 1: I get to a total of maybe four guards you're
Speaker 1: comfortable picking in the top fifty six. Yeah, that's probably
Speaker 1: about right. I'm looking depth wise too, and out of
Speaker 1: the top one hundred, I have sixteen offensive linemen in
Speaker 1: the top one hundred, whereas wide receiver, I have sixteen
Speaker 1: wide receivers in the top one hundred. So I mean
Speaker 1: that's a great question because at least in terms of
Speaker 1: what I'm looking at, it's dead even in between the two.
Speaker 1: I still lean toward thinking you'd be better off addressing
Speaker 1: the line earlier. And this is this is dependent on
Speaker 1: what they do in free agency obviously, but yeah, you're
Speaker 1: gonna have to go grab Williams are just gonna be green, Johnson, Ingram,
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to go grab one of those guys.
Speaker 1: And I think I think early and then the wide
Speaker 1: receivers I think stretches a little bit deeper, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, the chance to get a plug and play
Speaker 1: guy is going to have to go early as opposed
Speaker 1: to going later. Along this line of reasoning, Bill wants
Speaker 1: to know if Kenyon Green's guard tackle flex gives him
Speaker 1: any sort of edge, like the fact that he played
Speaker 1: for positions. Ingram did the same thing, Zion Johnson did
Speaker 1: the same thing. Yeah, you know, no, does that? Are
Speaker 1: you saying that because you don't think he can play
Speaker 1: tackle in the NFL? Or see, I think he could.
Speaker 1: I think if you were playing in a football game
Speaker 1: and your left tackle rolled his ankle, your right tackle
Speaker 1: tweaked a hammy, and your swing tackle broke a toe,
Speaker 1: could Kenyon Green go play tackle and survive in the NFL? Yes,
Speaker 1: I think she's going to point out that that has
Speaker 1: kind of happened here. Yeah, over the last couple of
Speaker 1: years about that Steelers game right now. If that bumps
Speaker 1: a guy up for you, fine, But like I think
Speaker 1: Kenyan Green is going to step in and be a
Speaker 1: quality starting guard in the league. And if he stepped
Speaker 1: in as a tackle, he would struggle. So like it
Speaker 1: ain't Zack Martin. Zack Martin could line up wherever you
Speaker 1: want right now and make a Pro Bowl. I think
Speaker 1: Kenyon Green is an NFL guard. I think he could
Speaker 1: say the same thing about Zion Johnson. He's a guard.
Speaker 1: At the same time, I mean it's he has position flex.
Speaker 1: And there is some sort of modern day NFL value
Speaker 1: to players with position flex, but at least on the
Speaker 1: offensive line, I don't really have any interested. Man. I
Speaker 1: used to think that position flex was good and important.
Speaker 1: It means you can't do either, yeah, I mean, and
Speaker 1: just you know, or you're a Hall of Famer. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like Micah Parsons and Zach Martin have position flex. Yeah
Speaker 1: they can go do you can? There's certain positions where
Speaker 1: you know, but you talk about an offensive lineman that
Speaker 1: has position flex, you're kind of like going and let's
Speaker 1: like you say it's Zach Martin. But otherwise you go, oh, man,
Speaker 1: he's really a good center. Now, I mean I would
Speaker 1: say I would I would say Connor Williams has position flex.
Speaker 1: He could probably play center, he could probably play guard,
Speaker 1: he could probably play cycle. But doing it with you
Speaker 1: and watched him do all that in a pro whenever
Speaker 1: they did at a training camp, that was saying, hey,
Speaker 1: maybe we could slide a guy in at left guard,
Speaker 1: because if he was really good, they did ab caliber
Speaker 1: at left guard. That's the problem they didn't the move.
Speaker 1: I think for the most part, it's a lie. Like,
Speaker 1: for instance, Connor McGovern might be an NFL starter, he
Speaker 1: really he might be sure at right guard. Yeah, connorc
Speaker 1: govern's not even a left guard. Yeah, he can't even
Speaker 1: play both guards. Terrence Steele is a starting right tackle. Yeah,
Speaker 1: my guy can't play left tackle. So, like we create
Speaker 1: this thing in our head where offensive line is offensive
Speaker 1: line for the vast majority of these guys, it's not.
Speaker 1: They can play a spot. Terrence is a right tackle. Connor,
Speaker 1: unfortunately is a right guard. He can't play there because
Speaker 1: Zach Martin exists. I think position flex is made up.
Speaker 1: Most of the time, you're talking yourself into something. I think.
Speaker 1: I think you're trying to be going to read he's right,
Speaker 1: You're trying to give yourself a reason to take the guy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he's the forty eighth player on your roster, and
Speaker 1: you're going, is there somebody better out there that we
Speaker 1: can find? Is there somebody? And then you play him,
Speaker 1: and then you really realize that a first round guard
Speaker 1: can play tackle in college football. Yeah, a first round
Speaker 1: center could play tackle in college football. And it fels
Speaker 1: different now. I think it's real, but I think you're
Speaker 1: right that it's very overstated. It is. You give me
Speaker 1: a that's great at one, it's a nice buzzword. It's
Speaker 1: a nice buzzword to make us feel good about a player. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree with that. SR wants to know if you recall,
Speaker 1: their first six picks were all on defense. Last year,
Speaker 1: they've primarily focused on the defensive side of the ball
Speaker 1: and free agency this year. Are we seeing them tip
Speaker 1: their hand for a very offensive heavy draft and we're
Speaker 1: sitting here given a lot of breath to offensive line
Speaker 1: and receiver. So it makes me wonder if maybe yes,
Speaker 1: I think in the first two rounds, yes, but it's
Speaker 1: still wide open. I don't think you're gonna see the
Speaker 1: first six picks were all off the board and it's
Speaker 1: all gonna be on the offensive side of the football
Speaker 1: because of the will that too. But you look at
Speaker 1: the value of where this draft lines up, and it
Speaker 1: lines up value wise at offensive line and wide receiver.
Speaker 1: So why would you not take advantage of that by
Speaker 1: taking either one of those positions in the first two rounds.
Speaker 1: I think if you took it to the extreme of
Speaker 1: like trying to make the case of how offensive. Could
Speaker 1: it be if the top two guards were gone and
Speaker 1: Tyler Linderbaum wasn't and they liked him. They could take
Speaker 1: a center in the first round. They could take a
Speaker 1: guard in the second round, they could take a receiver
Speaker 1: in the third round, and maybe where they take a
Speaker 1: tackle or tight end in the fourth round, like it
Speaker 1: could happen. I would bet three of their first four
Speaker 1: picks or offense. I think I completely agree. I would
Speaker 1: put money on that. Really, if you look at a
Speaker 1: depth chart, the only position and again I'm not saying
Speaker 1: it's like rock solid, but the only position that I'm
Speaker 1: looking at on defense where I'm like, oh, I don't
Speaker 1: I don't know if you want to play a game
Speaker 1: with what you got here linebacker, linebacker probably linebacker sort
Speaker 1: Other than that, I think you can roll the ball
Speaker 1: out and play football with the rest of what you
Speaker 1: have on defense, unless you had injuries. It said, well,
Speaker 1: I'm a quambo, I guess technically is your fourth safety? Yea,
Speaker 1: they still can do it. I think they're in a
Speaker 1: situation right now too that if I'm Jerry Jones, I
Speaker 1: walk in that draft and say, listen, you m f first,
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear anything about offensive players unlisten
Speaker 1: helps Dak okay. And you tell me, you guys line
Speaker 1: this thing up however you want to do it. But
Speaker 1: if it doesn't help Dak, I don't want to hear
Speaker 1: about it, okay. And if you want to fight the
Speaker 1: defense on players, it better help Dak okay. So to me,
Speaker 1: I just think that that that you know Quinn is
Speaker 1: going to I don't want Dan Quinn to like do
Speaker 1: what Rod Marinelli did and roll over on some guys. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh no, we Zeke's fine, Yeah it was. Zeke will
Speaker 1: help us, you know. No, I want Dan fighting for
Speaker 1: defensive players. It's hard. I mean, I get what you're saying,
Speaker 1: but I trust the defensive side finding players better than
Speaker 1: I do this offensive side. Right now, Robby Ironelly didn't
Speaker 1: roll over very often, like he got He rolled over
Speaker 1: on a love he did he but he rolled over
Speaker 1: on the runner. He did on ramsey Y and the
Speaker 1: guys that he he could kind of push away, or
Speaker 1: the guys that he already had in the room. He
Speaker 1: totally rolled over. Rod Marinelli was a beast, that man.
Speaker 1: While we were doing live coverage of the draft, oh
Speaker 1: one of them, we went to break and he goes,
Speaker 1: come with me, man, and I said, coach, we have
Speaker 1: literally four minutes and he's like, come quick, all right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he wanted to take us to his office to show
Speaker 1: us a picture of his high school coach. He said, No,
Speaker 1: Rod Murnoi is an awesome man. I'm not even but
Speaker 1: I'm just saying though, if you're if you're talking about
Speaker 1: what goes on in a war room, yeah, these coaches
Speaker 1: have influence. Oh of course, you know, And that's why
Speaker 1: I'm scared about the Joe Philmin thing because to me,
Speaker 1: he moved on from Lyle Collins. Yeah, he moved on
Speaker 1: to Thinking and Steel played well for eight games last year.
Speaker 1: He really did? You won like six games of him playing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I mean to me that that says something. But
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm like a Sam Jerry Jones. If
Speaker 1: you're talking about offensive guys, it better help number four. Well,
Speaker 1: I was just going to ask to back end off
Speaker 1: of that. Do you think that it's going to be
Speaker 1: offensive heavy then early on? No? I just get I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, I could say, I think you're you have
Speaker 1: to keep an open especially when you're picking. You have
Speaker 1: to keep an open mind about it. But to me.
Speaker 1: Like I said, if you start talking about a first
Speaker 1: round wide receiver, or if you start talking about a guard,
Speaker 1: you start talking about you know, the various a tackle whoever,
Speaker 1: it better be with the mind of this guy's going
Speaker 1: to plug in. He's going to play and he is
Speaker 1: going to be a difference maker. I don't have time
Speaker 1: for my quarterback to waste another year for development, because
Speaker 1: if it doesn't work out for him here next year,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have a whole new coaching staff again. Probably
Speaker 1: and now and now now, the clock is really ticking
Speaker 1: on Dak Prescott, whether you really want to keep him around.
Speaker 1: Can we get Brian in the war room? Can we
Speaker 1: figure it out? He spent time there. I'm just saying that,
Speaker 1: but this year he's got it right. Brian doesn't have
Speaker 1: a filter, and sometimes you have to have a filter
Speaker 1: and being well, sir, if that's what you want to do.
Speaker 1: And Brian's like that guy can't play, that you shouldn't.
Speaker 1: You're gonna pick him. He can't play. I just want
Speaker 1: you to know, so when you're firing people at the
Speaker 1: end of the year, remember I told you that dude
Speaker 1: can't blokay. Take me behind the curtain. Real quick, how
Speaker 1: often in your years in the Cowboys war room did
Speaker 1: Jerry Jones get like fear of God, like listen you
Speaker 1: m efforts like how often? Oh it happened? No, in
Speaker 1: the meeting, like how often? Oh often? Often? Yeah? He
Speaker 1: you know, the whole thing. Jerry was really good at listening.
Speaker 1: But Jerry also like listen, hear you, you know, and
Speaker 1: we were all and yes, sir, you know, I mean attention,
Speaker 1: you know, hop two you know. But that's it. But
Speaker 1: that's what a general manager does. General manager walks in
Speaker 1: there and says, listen, I don't want to hear crap
Speaker 1: about this guy. And you know, when you get scouts
Speaker 1: at waiver on guys, I don't know, man, I no,
Speaker 1: I don't have time for you waivering on this guy.
Speaker 1: Mike Zimmer wavered on. One day, Mike Zimmer is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I like this guy at this defensive back. I like him.
Speaker 1: I like him. Next day comes and I'm not so sure.
Speaker 1: I look at Mike and go, what the hell are
Speaker 1: you doing? I go, you got these scouts. They don't
Speaker 1: know what you're thinking right now. This is not going
Speaker 1: to do us any good. And he's like, well, I'm
Speaker 1: just not sure. I'm like, you're talking to people on
Speaker 1: the phone instead of trusting your own damn eyes. And
Speaker 1: that's the problem. See to me, if it's not if
Speaker 1: it's not helping. We're trying to evaluate this quarterback really
Speaker 1: right now. I mean it's going into year seven, yea,
Speaker 1: And the and the landscape of what we've seen right
Speaker 1: now in football is we're moving on from quarterbacks. If
Speaker 1: you can't play, Hey, Matt Ryan, goodbye. You know, you know,
Speaker 1: all these quarterbacks are kind of moving along. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's that's what I'm saying. We're
Speaker 1: in an era now where people used to be just
Speaker 1: terrified of losing their quarterbacks, and now it's like a nope,
Speaker 1: poor Matt Ry one hundred years you try to just
Speaker 1: run me out of town and back to me to
Speaker 1: tell me you love me again. Atlanta, Atlanta is taking
Speaker 1: a forty million dollar cap hit. Think about that. That's
Speaker 1: what these people think about these quarterbacks. Sometimes. I just
Speaker 1: can't believe they didn't rip the vand aid off last year.
Speaker 1: I structured him then traded him. I don't know if
Speaker 1: that last time we think the catboy has problems, Oh
Speaker 1: my god, I think that last six minutes was probably
Speaker 1: the closest we've gotten to like Brian in office versus
Speaker 1: Brian on air, which everybody we got. We gotta sell
Speaker 1: an experience with you watching tape and just talking trash
Speaker 1: about the old days. It's beautiful. We ran over. Sorry
Speaker 1: about no, but there's there's a couple things. I'm just
Speaker 1: going to extend it into the third segment, so we'll
Speaker 1: just keep this conversation going when we come back from
Speaker 1: this break. Football season is almost over, and that means
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Speaker 1: you call a group of grown men and women with
Speaker 1: their faces painted silver and blue who get together every
Speaker 1: week to share a three hour long ritual of jumping, sinking,
Speaker 1: and toasting Miller light and Tim Gallant hats while yelling
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Speaker 1: dot gov. This is that Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show,
Speaker 1: final segment of the Draft Show here on this Tuesday. Hey,
Speaker 1: your taxes liberty tax Thank you, Brian. I think there's
Speaker 1: probably another one in your bank, probably WrestleMania Cowboys dot
Speaker 1: Com slash Rowdy. WrestleMania is like two weeks away. If
Speaker 1: you weren't aware, see the Undertaker go in the Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame. I wanted to buy tickets. I wanted to
Speaker 1: get it. This phenomenus WBC good company. Right after this,
Speaker 1: you can do that. You have fun employed. At least
Speaker 1: you'll be home by that. Follow me on YouTube. I'll
Speaker 1: be back with you Wednesday night. All right, this is
Speaker 1: my favorite thing to talk about in the draft. I
Speaker 1: just love subverting the expectations, like what's that board mean? Uh?
Speaker 1: Flipping them on their head? Okay, yeah, you're welcome Apple
Speaker 1: Christian changing um. By the way, you appreciate the fact
Speaker 1: you used to edit my work, right yeah, oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: I started doing some writing things and I watched all
Speaker 1: that tweet I watched my buddy Mike Polucci edited live
Speaker 1: because it was he was following me as I wrote,
Speaker 1: and it was on a Google doc and I was
Speaker 1: just like, man, that's a lot of work. Great job, Brian.
Speaker 1: Brian notebook used to be like a forty minute or
Speaker 1: deal to get it, to get it readable anyway, which
Speaker 1: I love. I love the name big squeak, Big squeak, fantastic. Uh.
Speaker 1: I just want I want y'all to tell me in
Speaker 1: the lane of Cede Lamb, no, the opposite a name
Speaker 1: that you don't think has a chance to be sitting
Speaker 1: around at twenty four that would make you super excited.
Speaker 1: Oh which, and I don't I don't want you to
Speaker 1: sit on the fence either. Like I've got one a
Speaker 1: guy that you absolutely don't think will be there, Trayvon Walker, Georgia. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: go that. I would love that to happen. I don't
Speaker 1: think he's gonna end up falling. Ultra athletic edge rusher.
Speaker 1: He would be your starter day one. His length, his
Speaker 1: traits I mean powerful, clutch plays, I mean played. He
Speaker 1: was probably one of the ring leaders, you could call
Speaker 1: him a ring leader of that Georgia defense. If he
Speaker 1: were to somehow fall to twenty four, that'd be one
Speaker 1: of those guys. I would run a half marathon for
Speaker 1: I know that's what you're trying to do. Now, that's
Speaker 1: one of those guys. I would achieve a half marathon.
Speaker 1: I won't use the word run. I will achieve a
Speaker 1: half marathon over a span of four days. So however
Speaker 1: many miles it is a day to add up to
Speaker 1: a half marathon, three and a half, it's not that bad, Okay,
Speaker 1: So four straight five days, yeah, over a period of
Speaker 1: eight days, I will achieve a half marathon. If Garrett
Speaker 1: Wilson makes it to twenty four and gets picked by
Speaker 1: the Cowboys, he's my top wide receiver. But I have
Speaker 1: no idea the order these wide receivers are going to
Speaker 1: go in. Drake London at USC could be the first
Speaker 1: receiver off the board. Jamison Williams Alabama, I think could
Speaker 1: be the top receiver off the board. It's been it's
Speaker 1: sort of been our narrative this whole time that like
Speaker 1: Garrett Wilson is on a rung of his own, and
Speaker 1: he's not right, he's and we are not or the
Speaker 1: world does not agree that he's wide receiver. One some do,
Speaker 1: some don't. It depends. You can check between Daniel Jeremiah
Speaker 1: and Dane Brugler and Kiper and McShay. Like Garrett Wilson
Speaker 1: is not consensus wide receiver one, and if he were available,
Speaker 1: he would be my eight day half marathon guy because
Speaker 1: I just I love the way he plays. I think
Speaker 1: today's NFL is about creating separation and what can you
Speaker 1: do after the catch? And I think the he does
Speaker 1: both of those very well explosive movements get the ball
Speaker 1: in his hands and watch him work after the catch.
Speaker 1: Garrett Wilson at twenty four would be my party with all,
Speaker 1: which I love your answer, Kyle. I think we know,
Speaker 1: but I think we both agreed. I beat him just well.
Speaker 1: I just don't. I can't imagine a scenario where Walker falls,
Speaker 1: and I don't think I agree. I can't. That's why
Speaker 1: I said it. You told me who you are certain
Speaker 1: follow Hutchinson. You did exactly what I wanted you to do.
Speaker 1: My I think I also don't think Garrett Wilson will
Speaker 1: be there at twenty four, but I think it's a
Speaker 1: little more realistic the scenario that Jeff is painting. There
Speaker 1: was a time in my life that I believe that
Speaker 1: Trevor Penning was going to be there to tackle from
Speaker 1: northern Iowa. It's no way in hell, now, really, no way.
Speaker 1: Your answer should be, Charles Cross, Well, I mean, there's
Speaker 1: a decent chance he's OT four and he's your OT one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I just have Yeah, but my my, I just
Speaker 1: knew that those three guys weren't going to be. I
Speaker 1: knew all that the tackles were not going to be.
Speaker 1: But there was a time because Raymond, the kid from
Speaker 1: Central Michigan, Central Michigan, a lot of people mocking. They
Speaker 1: send me those mocks and they mock him. I'm not
Speaker 1: fired up for him. I'm not as fired they picked him.
Speaker 1: If they picked him at twenty four, I'd be devastated.
Speaker 1: I would be hurt. And I'm seeing him being being
Speaker 1: locked in the first round a lot, a lot. I
Speaker 1: don't know if I would be to that point devastated.
Speaker 1: Would I would rather have somebody else? I would flip
Speaker 1: to the Bengals. I would follow Lyle to the bank.
Speaker 1: I mean, you've got one guy already in that the baby.
Speaker 1: I just kind of feel like though that that that
Speaker 1: Penning was a guy that maybe that if it got
Speaker 1: kind of wiped out that you're thinking, man, there is
Speaker 1: a mean, big, nasty tackle. And I really really liked
Speaker 1: him with the possibility when Lyle Collins was still here
Speaker 1: and then moving Lyle Collins, and then people are saying, well,
Speaker 1: he can't bend well, Lyle Collins can't bend maybe the
Speaker 1: hips giving him a little bit of a problem, and
Speaker 1: he can't bend the play guard. But I you know,
Speaker 1: that would be and another one would be a name
Speaker 1: and I thought might not be there that or that
Speaker 1: probably won't be there that I thought would be there
Speaker 1: was Chris a Lobby. I really thought that Chris A
Speaker 1: Lobby would be. I think there's a chance that he
Speaker 1: might go ahead of Burks from Arkansas. I think this
Speaker 1: wide receiver tandems. I mean the first five Jamison Williams,
Speaker 1: Treylon Burks. I love James Williamson. I do too, Drake London,
Speaker 1: Chris A Lobby. Those are my five guys in order,
Speaker 1: and that's who was your sky more of course, No, okay,
Speaker 1: but those five guys are completely interchangeable, and wherever they
Speaker 1: end up going, there's probably gonna be two of those
Speaker 1: five that are there at twenty four? Is there and
Speaker 1: you know, my son Bennett asked me a question the
Speaker 1: other day about this about is there a chance that
Speaker 1: Stingley does get to twenty four? Chance? Yeah? Chance, yes,
Speaker 1: I just five between five and ten percent. Ask I
Speaker 1: don't get you got to turn the card and don't
Speaker 1: you Yes? Oh if if it had and our LSU bias,
Speaker 1: I mean I'm down on Derek Stingley, like the way
Speaker 1: that his career went at LSU. Yeah, just there again,
Speaker 1: we're talking about a guy who originally was like a
Speaker 1: top five prospects who could be in play at twenty four. Like,
Speaker 1: there's enough cause for concern there. I'm not sitting here
Speaker 1: trying to convince anybody that he's the second coming, but
Speaker 1: the traits at twenty four rare, Like you don't get
Speaker 1: a shot at at that type of guy at twenty
Speaker 1: four very often. I just think it's worth the risk.
Speaker 1: Is there an edge guy you would throw in there,
Speaker 1: like I would throw in Carloftis, George karl offtis to Purdue.
Speaker 1: But I think what happened with the Ojabo injury is
Speaker 1: that probably broke your ability to get one of the
Speaker 1: top edges to twenty four. I think all four of
Speaker 1: those guys are gone. Depending four budgets, Tim, I think
Speaker 1: depending on what happens with Jermaine Johnson. And I'm gonna
Speaker 1: say this, there might be some people that like this
Speaker 1: Mofi kid from Minnesota, maybe two in the second or
Speaker 1: third round. Well he Now, I I'm not saying you.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, no, he's He's there's people that looks
Speaker 1: people legitmly talking about out him as a first round player.
Speaker 1: I'm looking at a and again, not like nobody's mock
Speaker 1: is gospel at all, but I'm looking at a mock
Speaker 1: from a big publication that has him going thirtieth. Overall,
Speaker 1: it's definitely a thing, and I loved it because all
Speaker 1: this is is just people taking what they're hearing. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know we all watch the tape and do the homework,
Speaker 1: but when you're trying to look smart in a mock,
Speaker 1: you're just taking what you're hearing from people versus what
Speaker 1: teams might need and trying to make an educated guest.
Speaker 1: So for boy Mafates to suddenly be climbing like this,
Speaker 1: it's because somebody out there in the league thinks that
Speaker 1: highly of him, right, Yeah, I think that now. And
Speaker 1: to Jeff's point though, with a Jobo, with that thing
Speaker 1: him being out, everybody moves up a slot. Now, you
Speaker 1: know all these guys like, okay, well there and there
Speaker 1: were We've talked about this in the show for weeks
Speaker 1: that that there were a lot of questions about him
Speaker 1: as a first round guy. You know, there's he hadn't
Speaker 1: played a lot of football, you know in the background,
Speaker 1: all these things like that Jobo. Yeah, I mean they
Speaker 1: literally hit him on rundowns, like they took him off
Speaker 1: the field. Yeah. Yeah, So, I mean you know that
Speaker 1: that's one of those ones where you're thinking, boy, this
Speaker 1: is this one's got a chance to be really as
Speaker 1: they used to say, the boom er bust. I know,
Speaker 1: at one point you had said that your friends were
Speaker 1: saying Jermaine Johnson might have been a little bit higher,
Speaker 1: yeah than me anticipated. Yeah, the scouts were seeing that
Speaker 1: the media scouts were a little too high on Jermaine Johnson.
Speaker 1: Is that flip with Ojabo's news now, Oh no, I
Speaker 1: kind of feel like that I wouldn't move Jermaine Johnson
Speaker 1: and the fact that guy he transferred from Georgia and
Speaker 1: where every Georgia film you're thrown I was watching Georgia,
Speaker 1: was watching the Kentucky Center, you know, the other night,
Speaker 1: and and I and I, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: all you see is why yeah Fortner. Yeah, And I'm
Speaker 1: like everything, he's trying to block these Georgia guys and
Speaker 1: he's doing his best, you know. I mean when he
Speaker 1: plays Missouri, he's really good. But he was playing against George.
Speaker 1: It's like hold on your rear, you know, kind of
Speaker 1: the thing for first round pick. Yeah, but that's what
Speaker 1: I'm saying that that was a generational defense. But but
Speaker 1: that's where you like Jermain Johnson was part of that
Speaker 1: at one time. You kind of get it, like, you know,
Speaker 1: if he was at Georgia, we'd probably be talking about
Speaker 1: him as him Walker, you know, that kind of a thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's that good of a player. I wouldn't.
Speaker 1: I think the I think the thing the scouts told
Speaker 1: you about the meet, you know, you media scouts haven't
Speaker 1: too high. I think there's a lot of guys that
Speaker 1: are saying, well, you media scouts probably had him right.
Speaker 1: I get in tough twenty, Yeah, maybe a top twenty
Speaker 1: pick along a similar line. It's it's kind of the
Speaker 1: opposite instead of guys that we don't think we'll be there.
Speaker 1: I couldn't help but notice mcshaye and Kiper put out
Speaker 1: their latest mock this Morning Goodness Ration, which how is
Speaker 1: the crust? Do you like me, Joe? If you haven't,
Speaker 1: if you haven't seen the pick for the Cowboys in
Speaker 1: this particular mock, is Tyler Smith out of Tulsa? That
Speaker 1: would be shocking. Y'all's reactions tell me everything that maybe
Speaker 1: at fifty six that'd be shocking, definitely in the third
Speaker 1: see what's happening is these are hints because the first
Speaker 1: time I saw Tyler Smith, the Tulsa tackle listed as
Speaker 1: a top fifty player was Daniel Jeremiah NFL. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: had him as like number twenty late twenties or thirty
Speaker 1: or something like that. And when you see something like
Speaker 1: that that you're not seeing elsewhere, it comes from somewhere,
Speaker 1: and so you're raised an I run and go, maybe
Speaker 1: Tyler Smith's gonna be a first round offensive tackle if
Speaker 1: the Cowboys make that pick. Like there's different ways to
Speaker 1: do the draft show, like talking about what's realistic and
Speaker 1: what they might do. And I know, Dave, that's kind
Speaker 1: of the lane that you existed right where I try to.
Speaker 1: I exist in the lane of I watched the players.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna give you what I think about them.
Speaker 1: If they take Tyler Smith in the first round, that'll
Speaker 1: be a bad pick. Tell me, tell me more about
Speaker 1: him as a player. I mean, we've talked about him before.
Speaker 1: I don't care. We have to do two of these
Speaker 1: a week. He doesn't have very good technique overall as
Speaker 1: a blocker. When you watch him play, I mean, he's
Speaker 1: more about trying to bully you and beat you up
Speaker 1: than anything. He catches a lot of blocks, too, There's
Speaker 1: nothing about the punch and the drive and the things
Speaker 1: like that when you associate with offensive lineman. He's more
Speaker 1: of a He'll take the blow and then trying to
Speaker 1: kind of rustle with you and stuff like that. And
Speaker 1: you know that's the thing. I mean, he puts himself
Speaker 1: in some bad body positions when you watch him, you
Speaker 1: know you think that you think that Terence Steal at
Speaker 1: times like turns into like hopping on one leg and
Speaker 1: trying to do that. This guy's three twenty four pounds
Speaker 1: and people move him around like that. But that's that's
Speaker 1: the problem I have. I think he's just tiding of
Speaker 1: a grab and hold on to his guy instead of
Speaker 1: a guy that's just moving people out of the way.
Speaker 1: I think you have to teach him to play offensive tackle. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think you have to rebuild him literally from the
Speaker 1: ground up. But I think he played tackle at Tulsa.
Speaker 1: But you have to re teach him. I mean in
Speaker 1: terms of I would probably put him in a guard
Speaker 1: I just mean in terms of he doesn't do anything right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like his punches don't land, his feet and his hands
Speaker 1: don't work together, the bass doesn't work even though he
Speaker 1: is strong enough. So like what he is is a
Speaker 1: guy that people are gonna be like, well, he's big
Speaker 1: enough and he's athletic enough. Now we have to teach him.
Speaker 1: So I was about to say, when you when you
Speaker 1: hear about so this guy just sounds incredibly raw. When
Speaker 1: you hear about these types of players, it's usually because
Speaker 1: they're super freak athletes and you're just banking on them
Speaker 1: putting it together. Is he in that? You do? We
Speaker 1: think he's in that caliber of athlete. Alete, He's he's strong,
Speaker 1: he's got strength, but in a lot of times he
Speaker 1: relied on his strength to get him out of that
Speaker 1: trouble to get him out of the poor hand placement
Speaker 1: and the poor footwork and things like that. It's one
Speaker 1: of the reasons why he ended up at Tulsa and
Speaker 1: not at an SEC school along the way. It's because
Speaker 1: he has the strength to be a Division one into
Speaker 1: pro caliber backup sort of deal. But if he's going
Speaker 1: to be a pro starter, you're gonna need to reteach
Speaker 1: him quite a bit. Just an example, just going through
Speaker 1: my notes here, of the two of the three games
Speaker 1: I watched, he had three holding penalties, and that just
Speaker 1: shows you when he have holding pace, what do we
Speaker 1: associate with Connor Williams. We associate bad body position, getting
Speaker 1: off balance. Yeah, that's when you have to holdation. You
Speaker 1: have to yeah, and you don't want to get your
Speaker 1: quarterback hit. So if you're gonna have a bunch of
Speaker 1: holding penalties because of bad body position, how you're going
Speaker 1: to play in the NFL. I mean, I'm watching play
Speaker 1: against Ohio State, No Clona State, and people like that
Speaker 1: quality competition. Those guys we we you know, we're evaluating them,
Speaker 1: and I'm looking at him, going, man, he's always on
Speaker 1: the edge of holding, you know, and maybe he grows
Speaker 1: out of that, but the fact that he likes to
Speaker 1: catch blocks all day, I'm not into that. Yep. Interesting
Speaker 1: very and no, I mean when when Kiper made the
Speaker 1: pick and I saw it, I went man, not for me?
Speaker 1: Not for me. I mean there's there's probably seven other
Speaker 1: guys I would rather have than that. I just washed.
Speaker 1: I do, Okay, I don't want but even but rats
Speaker 1: mock drafts this time of year. I mean, we're all
Speaker 1: doing these mock drafts and we're you know, point four
Speaker 1: point zero, and you're like, you're just trying to throw
Speaker 1: things at areas. But I will say, and like, the
Speaker 1: draft industry has come so far since mel Kiper was
Speaker 1: like the guy. But Kiper, mcshaye, Dane, Jeremiah, like we
Speaker 1: just said this when Bucky. When one of those guys
Speaker 1: throws a name that isn't in the normal list, my
Speaker 1: ears perk up because two of them now, because Jeremiah
Speaker 1: has him ranked high and now and now Kuiper put
Speaker 1: him in a foot in first round. Why Kiper did say,
Speaker 1: I read the description of it, and he mentioned, like, well,
Speaker 1: in another option here would be Zion Johnson, who goes
Speaker 1: like two picks later for him. So just pretend they
Speaker 1: picked the right guy. I just think it's important to
Speaker 1: note because again, that's how we started this whole draft
Speaker 1: class in the first place. Was like, beauty's going to
Speaker 1: be in the eye of the beholder from about pick
Speaker 1: sixteen and the rest of the way. Yep. You know.
Speaker 1: So a guy that we at this table collectively think
Speaker 1: of as pick forty five could be picked twenty four
Speaker 1: and it shouldn't shock us, even though it probably would
Speaker 1: in the moment. Well, you remember I brought up Tyler
Speaker 1: Smith just from hearing stuff at the Combine too. One
Speaker 1: of the second show with Dane we had brought up
Speaker 1: Tyler Smith as an option. But when I brought him up,
Speaker 1: I wasn't talking about twenty four. I was talking about
Speaker 1: fifty six. Yeah, I was trying to get get him
Speaker 1: to fifty six and maybe fall a little bit, maybe
Speaker 1: they didn't take a tackle in the first round. Now
Speaker 1: at twenty four, I would be relatively disappointed, real relatively,
Speaker 1: I mean completely Verry, Yeah, so did you try to
Speaker 1: be nice about it? Yeah? I'm trying to be nice.
Speaker 1: You don't have a nice thing like you could go,
Speaker 1: You could go a long way towards just packaging your
Speaker 1: mean stuff. A little bit nicer, right, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: figure that out. Yeah, but people also look at me
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, you're soft, and that's not so. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't think of you a soft diplomat. I appreciate
Speaker 1: a diplomatic is a good way. Diplomatic doesn't mean soft.
Speaker 1: Real quick, before we get out of here, I did
Speaker 1: Brian and Kyle somebody not me, because you know you
Speaker 1: told me, you told me off the air you hadn't
Speaker 1: watched him yet, Jeff, So why don't you just let
Speaker 1: me do the diplomatic stuff. Why don't you just let
Speaker 1: me make an offhand comment on purpose? And then can
Speaker 1: we talk about Alec Lindstrom really quickly? Sure, not as
Speaker 1: like a first round prospect, but I feel like when
Speaker 1: you talk about Sinners, everybody talks about linder Bomb a lot,
Speaker 1: but never him. I kind of feel like Luke Fortner
Speaker 1: from Kentucky's a better play, you know, And I picked
Speaker 1: up Luke just late here the last couple of days.
Speaker 1: But you know, when you talk about Alec Lundstrom, I
Speaker 1: mean he's a left handed center, which we saw with
Speaker 1: Creed Humphrey last year. So it's kind of weird when
Speaker 1: you watch tape and you see the left handed center.
Speaker 1: He didn't have the size, but the footwork and stuff,
Speaker 1: I really really like. I think this guy he's probably
Speaker 1: not gonna I don't think he tested particularly well, but
Speaker 1: you watch him on tape that he does have the
Speaker 1: ability to kind of, you know, hook up on his
Speaker 1: guy and he can't sustain his block. The toughness, I
Speaker 1: thought the point of attack was really really good. I
Speaker 1: saw him reaching wide techniques and what I mean wide
Speaker 1: like the ones and the threes on the outside. You mean,
Speaker 1: he was able to get his head across a couple
Speaker 1: of different times. But I just don't think he you know,
Speaker 1: I don't think he has the overall power to really
Speaker 1: keep somebody stalemated at the line. And so you know
Speaker 1: that's something that that you kind of need to keep
Speaker 1: an eye on. Again. I once I watched the Kentucky guy,
Speaker 1: I said, okay, Alec, you're a little bit further down,
Speaker 1: you know, and this is where you know I'm looking.
Speaker 1: A matter of fact, I put Fortner over Parm from Memphis,
Speaker 1: who is a projection at the at the guard spot.
Speaker 1: Who's going to project from guards to center. Yeah, I've
Speaker 1: got Parm above him. I've got Donovan West out of
Speaker 1: Arizona State above him. I think Lenstrom's a good player, uh,
Speaker 1: and his jumps were okay, but like you said, his
Speaker 1: running was not great at the combine. He's also got
Speaker 1: short arms, and that's one thing that I'm I'm not
Speaker 1: normally maybe our number our number one center has short
Speaker 1: arms to right, but the number one center dominates his
Speaker 1: film and Lyndstrom does not dominant. That's true by any means.
Speaker 1: That's true. You can watch him play against Clemson and
Speaker 1: they've got bigger, heavier inside guys and he doesn't get
Speaker 1: beat up, which gave me encouragement that like, Okay, here's
Speaker 1: a guy that's you know, he's not you know if
Speaker 1: you struggle, like I say, Fortner playing against Georgia, there
Speaker 1: were some really good reps and they're one's like oh
Speaker 1: look out, you know, oh Jim, you know, like Tony
Speaker 1: Romo doing oh Jim. But you know, other than that though,
Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, I you know Lenstrom, he
Speaker 1: he comes from a long line of NFL players too.
Speaker 1: His fam mother right, Yeah, he's got some he's and
Speaker 1: I think Dad, I think they've got a lot of
Speaker 1: uncles and stuff that played as well. Fights. I will
Speaker 1: give him that he fights. This was a fun hour
Speaker 1: of radio. Guys. What do you say We do it
Speaker 1: again on Thursday, So let's do it for Jeff Brian
Speaker 1: shut up, Jeff. See Kyle, I'm Dave. Thanks for listening
Speaker 1: to the Draft Show. We'll talk to y'all next time.
Speaker 1: This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com
Speaker 1: and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.