1 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on. 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: The parties are divided in terms of the effect that 3 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:12,319 Speaker 1: the stimulus is going to have. This inflation debate has 4 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: really been heating up the effect of what the Biden 5 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: administration is spending on political capital. Bloomberg Sound on. The insiders, 6 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 1: the influencers, the insights, a group of centrists are the 7 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: key senators to watch. Jill Biden give number one focus 8 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: in addition to the COVID health crisis is jobs. I 9 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: don't think we have red roads and Blu roads, and 10 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 1: that's the way we're looking at this. Schoomberg Sound On 11 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:41,599 Speaker 1: with Devin Surrel on Bloomberg Radio. My name is Kevin Sirelli. 12 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: I'm the chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg Television and for 13 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. As I was just talking about with Carol Master, 14 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: the big story remains geopolitics. As we await remarks from 15 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: President Joe Biden speaking later this hour at Emory University. 16 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: But first let's start with Secretary of State and City 17 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: b Lincoln and National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, who met 18 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: with Chinese officials and members of the Communist Party earlier 19 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: yesterday in Anchorage, Alaska. This was, of course, the first 20 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: high level talks between the United States and China, and 21 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: it descended immediately into bickering and arguments, with each side 22 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 1: sharply criticizing the other over human rights, trade, and international alliances. 23 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: Take a listen to the sound on the relationship from 24 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: Secretary of State Li Lincoln. We'll also discuss our deep 25 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: concerns with actions by China, including in snjong Hong Kong, Taiwan, 26 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: cyber attacks on the United States, economic coersion toward our allies. 27 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 1: Each of these actions threaten the rules based order that 28 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: maintains global stability. That's why they're not merely internal matters, 29 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: and why we feel an obligation to raise these issues 30 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: here today. Taking it one step further, Karen Pierce, the 31 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: UK Ambassador to the United States, spoke exclusively with my 32 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: colleague David Weston earlier today on Bloomberg Television, and she 33 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: noted that vaccine nationalism is wrong. She also discussed the 34 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: U s UK trade talks and both countries relationships with China. 35 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: Take a listen to the sound on that they're very 36 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: important areas around security, stability, trade, cyber ip theft, and 37 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: human rights. All of these need talking about. But it's 38 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 1: not all about competition. If you want to tackle the 39 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,679 Speaker 1: really big issues in the world around health, around climate, 40 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: then we need China working cooperatively with us. Meanwhile, the 41 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: President of the United States also spoke today. He visited 42 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: the CDC headquarters in Atlanta, Georgia. The scientists there were 43 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: praising the White House support for their research and the 44 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: fight against COVID nineteen, and President Biden's told the researchers, 45 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: in addition to others, that they have the support of 46 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 1: the American people. Here's the sound on the shots. We 47 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: owe you a jig ganic debt of gratitude and we 48 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: will for a long, long, long time. The point is 49 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: the public is thankful to you because it's about science. 50 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: I want to welcome to the program Bloomberg Politics contributors 51 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 1: Rick Davis and Jeannie Shawn Zeno, as we come to 52 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: a conclusion, without question, uh, Genie, of what felt like 53 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:30,239 Speaker 1: an incredibly geopolitical week and one that unfortunately the back 54 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: shadow where those anti Asian attacks that captured the nation's 55 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: attention and grief as well. To your point, we really 56 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: saw the administration turn its focus around the world this 57 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,839 Speaker 1: week and it was extraordinary to watch it sort of unfold, 58 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: and I heard you talking to Carol and raising the 59 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: issue of what's going to happen now in Europe. And 60 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: I think this is one of the big takeaways from 61 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: me with the back and forth with China, is not 62 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: only are they feeling emboldened in terms of our ability 63 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: and how they have you know, our or or equal 64 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: in stature or to the United States in many ways, 65 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: and you could see that, you know, just viscerally feel 66 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: that in that exchange, but also as we think about Europe, 67 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 1: you know, great questions as to whether Joe Biden is 68 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:19,919 Speaker 1: going to be able to use our allies in Europe 69 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: to confront Beijing, because Beijing has made inroads. And there 70 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,599 Speaker 1: was a fascinating story about this as it pertains to 71 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 1: Germany in the New York Times. I believe not that 72 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 1: long ago, and so those to me are real challenges 73 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 1: now that we so sort of solve viscerally played out 74 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: in those fascinating exchange with with with b Lincoln and 75 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: his counterpart Rick. It seems like the Brits are aligned 76 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: with us on how to deal with China, but there 77 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 1: are so many open ended questions with Germany, with the Italians, 78 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: with France. Uh, in terms of what direction they are 79 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: going to move in. Yeah, Kevin, I think we read 80 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: what we saw for the last four years under the 81 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: Trump administration. We were reminded by that administration that are 82 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: traditional European allies weren't that important? Right? And they got 83 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: scolded quite often. Uh. Now we look back and we think, wow, 84 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 1: we should have been building this team even stronger rather 85 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: than isolating them. We have a lot of proof points 86 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: we have to establish. We have to establish proof points 87 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: with China. As Jennie said, you know, there was a 88 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: lot of um positioning in this Anchorage meeting that uh, 89 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: that is trying to get the US in a different place, 90 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 1: and it's been in for over a decade with China, 91 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:27,239 Speaker 1: and we have to we have to create those proof 92 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: points with European allies and and our Asian allies. These 93 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 1: are these are now the strength we have is our 94 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 1: friends around the world and and and that's going to 95 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: take a lot of time and effort. Well, let's follow 96 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 1: up on that rig because especially in terms of the 97 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:47,919 Speaker 1: broader movement of European nations, which with what how is 98 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 1: the better question? How? Ken President Biden con secretary blink 99 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: in UM, how can they get the Germans to move 100 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 1: back toward the direction of the broader coalition of the 101 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: United States and up. Well, I think there are some 102 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: fundamental building blocks UH in Number one is security. UH. 103 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: We we saw the Trump administration launch a aggressive campaign 104 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 1: in Europe against UH, the Chinese companies like Huawei trying 105 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: to infiltrate and and use their technology to UH control 106 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: five G in Europe, and and and and we won 107 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 1: some and we lost some, but we didn't make a case. 108 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: I think that was successful enough that these are national 109 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: security issues. These are not economic issues. Donald Trump liked 110 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: to put everything through the filter of economics with China, 111 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: and and we missed the biggest selling point that we have, 112 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: which is UH, it's national security. And with national security 113 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: comes all these other causes that the British ambassador was 114 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: talking about. Cyber attacks. All these countries have been UH 115 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: subject to cyber attacks from China UH and there's no 116 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: coordinated response. Everyone's kind of left on their own. The 117 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: US has a unique position to be able to mass 118 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: UH volume with these allies, to be able to ensure 119 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 1: that these kinds of I P the cyber attacks things 120 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: like that don't happen in the future. Well, and and 121 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: I would add to the list of concerns with regards 122 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: to Huawei and five G technology UH South America as 123 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: well and the in worads that China has built into that. 124 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: You know, I'll never forget Jennie, when I asked Rick 125 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: a couple of months ago, um, after January six, about 126 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: whether or not the domestic issues, for lack of a 127 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: better word, in every sense of the phrase, we're undermining 128 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: the United States position to make a broader case um 129 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: to the rest of the world, but particularly to adversaries. 130 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: You know, we we all recall and remember and acknowledge 131 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: the unrest that happened throughout the year at various points, 132 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: um throughout recent months. UM. Of course, we're all horrified, 133 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 1: horrified by the anti Asian attacks that have that have 134 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: also occurred recently unfortunately. UM. But Genie, the word Rick 135 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: used was that the US needs to humble itself, to 136 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: practice humility, and that it can still get grounded in 137 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: its measured nous and in its principles through humility. I 138 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: was really struck by that, Genie, because I think that's 139 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: the difference here. When the Communist Party counterparts were lecturing 140 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: for the Secretary Blinkin. But to his point, Rick's point, 141 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: I think that humility is going to have to be 142 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: really on display, not necessarily in dealing with the Chinese, 143 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: but in dealing with America's allies, right it is. And 144 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: you know, to to Rick's point, what what has really 145 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 1: been very striking to me is the similarities between the 146 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 1: responses of China and also Russia in the last week 147 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: to the administration. And and let's not forget in terms 148 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: of you know, sort of raising issues. We heard China 149 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 1: push back on you know, you can't talk about our 150 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: human rights record with the record that you have got, um, 151 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 1: But let's not forget we also heard Donald Trump make 152 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: a very very similar case during his administration and as 153 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 1: he ran for office. So it is going to be 154 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: hard for us to walk that back, I think, And 155 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: you know, I think as we think about China, a 156 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: couple of things we should we should remember. Number one, 157 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: if Biden wants to isolate Beijing on trade and other issues, 158 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: it's going to take pulling, pulling our allies towards us. 159 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,319 Speaker 1: And the difficulty is China has had time to do 160 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: a very good job of making these allies dependent on them, 161 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: and that makes Biden's approach that much more difficult. We 162 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: mentioned Germany, let's look over towards Asia, places like Pakistan 163 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: and the Silk Road. The investments China has made an 164 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 1: infrastructure are tremendous, and you get states dependent on you. 165 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: Much much harder for Biden then to isolate Beijing when 166 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: their relationships are strong. And that's what I got a 167 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: real visceral sense of yesterday, that they are feeling very 168 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: emboldened about their place on the world stage at this point. Yeah, 169 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: but Jennie, I think that one of the things that's 170 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,079 Speaker 1: an interesting contrast between what you're saying about China's outward 171 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: appearance and what they want to broadcast to the world 172 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: and what Kevin was talking about, which is our inward 173 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: look to try and solve our problems, are our humility 174 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: and and and our guests. Later on in the program, 175 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: Keith Kroc actually wrote a piece that actually very well 176 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 1: articulates this that in Vietnam, when when we went through 177 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: that period, we actually looked inward and said, Okay, we 178 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: have to fix what's wrong here. And years later we 179 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: dial it back and we say, China not willing to 180 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: address these issues internally inside China. But we've moved on 181 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: successfully to be able to repair the damage is done 182 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: during the Vietnam era in places like Vietnam itself, who 183 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: see us as their great protector against China. Why because 184 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,439 Speaker 1: we change, We focused on our vulnerabilities, We try to 185 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: improve ourselves. Our democratic experiment is an over. China will 186 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: not recognize any domestic issues they have, and ultimately that 187 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: will not weigh at them. Rick Davis is so much 188 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: more poetic than I'll ever be a genie. I mean, seriously, 189 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: I'm just thinking of my dad saying, and we're an 190 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: Irish Italian Catholic family, and we talk it out, we 191 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: hash it out, and then we move on. But let's 192 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: take a listen to a perfect perfect example of this. 193 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 1: That and and and kidding aside, because my colleague Scarlet 194 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: Foo Uh spoke with California Congressman's Tadlou earlier today. He 195 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: is um a Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, and 196 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: he had scheduled hearing weeks ago, Uh file and and 197 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: and it took place the same week as the mass 198 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: shooting in Atlanta, where a white gunman killed eight people, 199 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: six of whom were Asian women and congressman's headlou uh 200 00:11:57,400 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: and I don't know, I I this, this is such 201 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: a powerful sound by to take a listen to this 202 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,079 Speaker 1: sound on the conversation that he had with my colleague 203 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: Quick Take anchor Scarlet Pie. Here this You know, I 204 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 1: serve my active duty in United States military to defend 205 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: the rights of anyone to say whatever they want, even 206 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: if it's stupid or even if it's racist. I'm just 207 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: pleading with my Republican legislators to please stop using these 208 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: phrases because we know that is adding fuel to the 209 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: fire hatred against the Asian American community. You know, there's 210 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 1: obviously a political tens and that sound by Jeanie, but 211 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: without question this week that was such a dominant part 212 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 1: of every corner of the nation's capital and every crevice 213 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: in the halls of Congress. It was. And you know, 214 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: and I agree with you on Rick's how poetic. Rick 215 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: is nearly as poetic. We love data, professor, you wrote 216 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: the book on democracy quite literally going you know, I 217 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: think it's it's stunning to hear that. You know, there 218 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,319 Speaker 1: were members of Congress, for instance, who were asking Kevin 219 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy to please not use particular language which I 220 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: won't repeat because it has such a devastating impact on 221 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: a community, and that wasn't abided by. Similarly to President Trump, 222 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: and that wasn't abided by. So, you know, it has 223 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: been you know, a horrifying week in terms of what 224 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:19,239 Speaker 1: happened obviously in Georgia, as we await the President potentially 225 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:22,439 Speaker 1: maybe making some remarks by the same token, it has 226 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: been really important that for many of the people I 227 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: have talked to said, this is amongst the first times 228 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 1: recently when this conversation about treatment of Asian Americans has 229 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: gotten the attention that it really deserves. And so that, 230 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: you know, is sort of a bright spot in an 231 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: otherwise very very difficult week following a horrific year. It's 232 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: just been the list of of of issues between the 233 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: US and China. It's it's grown longer by the day, 234 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: it seems, and even you know, Apple with China and 235 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: and privacy issues and they're addressing China's Apple work around 236 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: that was in the headlines to this week, and it's 237 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 1: just I don't even know where they start in terms 238 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,439 Speaker 1: of how how do you start Rick Davis. Davis take 239 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: us behind the scenes in terms of prioritizing so many 240 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: of these issues. Yeah, I think the clip you played 241 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: Kevin earlier with US investor or the British investador to 242 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: the US Karen Pierce, I think I thought summed it 243 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: up really well. I mean, there are a couple of 244 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: issues that we think we can work together on. UM. 245 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: Health COVID is one of them that we have to 246 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: improve on. Right, the world's health depends upon our leadership 247 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: in China's to come to grips with some of these 248 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: kind of pandemic issues. And and climate which is an 249 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: existential issue for the world also and and and there's 250 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: a lot that you can unpack in those two areas 251 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: where we have complete and total cooper If we had 252 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 1: complete and total cooperation between the US and China, the 253 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: world would be a completely different place. UM. So that's 254 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: a great positive starting point. But you're right, the list 255 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: of transgressions UH, violations of international codes of conduct UM, 256 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: things that we have spent UH the entire history of 257 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: the United States pointing out and trying to correct UH 258 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: are are are really overwhelming. And this administration's ability to 259 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: pass through those and find where we can make progress 260 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: either on the economic front, or the human rights front 261 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 1: or the security front. UH is going to be very complex. 262 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: I would say I'm not shocked that we started this 263 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: week UH in Alaska where that we had the first 264 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: meeting between the parties UH in a very tense period, 265 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: because there it's not a good news story, and I 266 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: think that's the first step to realize this ain't gonna 267 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: be easy. We're gonna have to have friends at the 268 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: table with us, and it's not a bilateral relationship. China 269 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: is a member of the world community and we need 270 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: the world to step up along alongside of our leadership. 271 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: I've read some one of them the hill Rags sort 272 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: of the axis or what's the other politico UH punch 273 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: bowl UM, when they quoted one of the people that said, UH, 274 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: China has the China feels that the they have the 275 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: wind at they're back, and that the floodgates are open. 276 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: I guess quickly I'd asked the both of you before 277 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: we reset, whether or not that's a miscalculation. Genie, I'll 278 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: start with you, and the word that I keep reading 279 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: is the same that they feel emboldened. And I had 280 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: that sense yesterday. You know, is it a miscalculation? Um? 281 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: I am not sure. I think that it's going to 282 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: depend on how the Biden administration is able to move forward. 283 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,760 Speaker 1: But I think our discussion here is really important because again, 284 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: when you have economically sort of made countries dependent on you, 285 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: are are are raising human rights violation is going to 286 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: be enough to break that. You know, how can we 287 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: step into that now, I think is a big question. 288 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: China feels like they have secured support there and as 289 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: we continue to spend and increase our debt. That is 290 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,199 Speaker 1: a large part of where this has come to is 291 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 1: it is the window China's back Rick. You know, look, 292 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:17,360 Speaker 1: I mean appearances are deceiving. They have economic and security 293 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 1: superiority in some regions of the world, but they have 294 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,439 Speaker 1: a cancer lack of freedom within their own country that 295 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:25,639 Speaker 1: is going to eat away at their progress over time. 296 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: You can't repress your people, you can't deny them freedoms. 297 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: You can't you know, lock up every dissenter in in 298 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 1: Hong Kong, you can't. You can't put ethnic minorities like 299 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: the Eager Wigger's Uh into prisons by the millions. H 300 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: All those things are going to stop China ultimately from 301 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: reaching the potential that that frankly, they yearn to be 302 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,239 Speaker 1: It's UH, all right, let's let's uh, let's reset here. 303 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: I'm Kevin Cerelely. I'm the chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg 304 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 1: Television and for Bloomberg Radio. We are awaiting remarks from 305 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 1: President O Biden, who will speak, we are told later 306 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:07,440 Speaker 1: this hour UH at Emory University, and we will bring 307 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: you those remarks as we dip into them. I'm accompanied 308 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: by my colleagues, Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis and Jeannie 309 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 1: sean Z. You know, I want to reset and talk 310 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: about COVID nineteen in particular because while the United States 311 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: has achieved UH the goal of of having a hundred 312 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: million vaccines within the Biden administration the new administration's first 313 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: one hundred days in office, and we've been clear on 314 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: this program about the credit that goes around, so both 315 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: administrations as well as UH to UH the scientists and 316 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: researchers who worked tirelessly to make that happen. Paris, France 317 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:47,160 Speaker 1: and other parts of Europe are now just hours away 318 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: from a new lockdown going into effect as a third 319 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 1: wave of COVID nineteen moves through Europe, and there is 320 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,959 Speaker 1: a lockdown for twenty one million French citizens that starts 321 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 1: at seven pm Eastern Time tonight and will be in 322 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 1: place for at least a month. Are are calling on 323 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 1: the ground an indefatigable reporter. He's been on this program 324 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: multiple times throughout the last year. Ross Cullen. He is 325 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: the Paris bureau chief for Feature Story News and he 326 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: joins us now on the line from Paris right now, Ross, So, 327 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: I remember interviewing you a year ago when these lockdowns 328 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: first started, and uh, it was mortifying to hear the 329 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 1: your accounts, as we in America hadn't yet reached any 330 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 1: of the restrictions. So I I say this respectfully, but 331 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: are we gonna have a third lockdown? Here? Kevin? Just 332 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: starting it back to I remember that I was in 333 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 1: Italy speaking to you. First European country to go into 334 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 1: a national lockdown, and to look from in March past 335 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: forwarding to where we are now and France going back 336 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: into this regional lock down. Other countries as well suffering 337 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 1: from this third wave in Europe. I guess the fear 338 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: in the US is that there could be something similar coming. 339 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: Of course, the numbers when you based it on population 340 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,679 Speaker 1: and much larger in the in the US. But France 341 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: really suffering now and we are going in at midnight tonight, 342 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,439 Speaker 1: seven pm Eastern time, into another lockdown here in Paris. 343 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: So is it is it now when we say lockdown, 344 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: as we all have learned, is it a lockdown? Or 345 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:29,199 Speaker 1: is it a lockdown? I don't even meaning? Is it 346 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 1: how restricted? What are the restrictions? That was That was 347 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: a nut articulate question, and I apologis well. The President 348 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,439 Speaker 1: Emmanuel mccron actually said this evening that lockdown is the 349 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 1: wrong word. He said that for this particular measure, we 350 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: should be using breaking measures, deceleration measures, and that's how 351 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: he would like to characterize. Because we will be able 352 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 1: to go outside when lockdown is in place, there won't 353 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: be a time livers on that, but there will still 354 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: be a remnant of the previous lockdown. Something that you 355 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 1: guys didn't have over there, which is filling in of 356 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: the government form. Every time you want to leave your 357 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 1: house just to buy a point of milk, just to 358 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 1: go to the drug store, um for some pain killers, 359 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: you need to fill in a government form proving why 360 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: you are leaving your house. And then wait a minute, 361 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: wait a minute way the American in me is like 362 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,919 Speaker 1: jumping out right now, Hold on Rass, colored Paris Bureau 363 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: chief for future story news. Wait, so, every time someone 364 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: leaves the house they have to fill out a form. 365 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: Where do they give the form to? Where is the 366 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: form in the first lockdown? The form was actually printed 367 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 1: in several newspapers, particularly for the elderly generation who might 368 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: be getting access in their form that way. There are 369 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,879 Speaker 1: millions of people, including me, who will access this form 370 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:48,199 Speaker 1: using the COVID nineteen tracking app on your phone. But 371 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: you do need to fill it in. If you are 372 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 1: going to be leaving your house because of the police 373 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,639 Speaker 1: stop you and you haven't got the right documentation, you 374 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: do face one hundred and sixty dollar fine. Rass. This 375 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 1: is Genie Chanzy know, very good to talk to you, 376 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: and I am just stunned. I think as as Kevin, 377 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: it was listening about how this works. Are you hearing 378 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: anything from the people on the ground. Are they, you know, 379 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: at all concerned about their liberties and freedoms in the 380 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: midst of this kind of um you know, understanding that 381 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 1: there are health reasons for doing this. Do you hear 382 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: any kind of pushback on the civil Libertarian Front. I 383 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: was speaking as people today Genie on the chancelis one 384 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: of the most famous boulevards in Paris, where there were 385 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,159 Speaker 1: long lines of people outside clothes stores because they're going 386 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: to shot tomorrow, so people trying to make their last purchases. 387 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 1: And Jennie I would say that were resigned. They almost 388 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: knew this was coming. It's not a surprise. We've been 389 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:50,440 Speaker 1: through this before. They know what it entails, for example, 390 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: filling in the form as I said, and being back 391 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: inside by seven pm. That's when the kirky starts. You 392 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: need to be at home by seven pm. So they 393 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 1: it's not a surprise and for a lot of people 394 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:05,120 Speaker 1: is annoying to have to go through this. But unfortunately 395 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: they saw it coming. They saw the numbers, they saw 396 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,880 Speaker 1: the pressure on hospitals that we are suffering here in France, 397 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,399 Speaker 1: and it was inevitable. Ross's Rick Davis. I want to 398 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: maybe look into sort of cause and effect a little bit. 399 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 1: Uh And we've all seen the reporting on Astroseneca in 400 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: Europe and whether or not the countries are embracing the 401 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: the the COVID vaccine made by that organization, and and 402 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: I know France has limited to people fifty five and 403 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: older access to that vaccine. But in other countries where 404 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: we see success, Uh, it's basically get a vaccine in 405 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: the arms as quick as you can to everybody you can. 406 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,439 Speaker 1: So is there a sense that they're going to rethink 407 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: their strategy related to the vaccination front? Rick? This is 408 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 1: a heavily centralized, bureaucratic country in France, Something like a 409 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:56,360 Speaker 1: national vaccination program was always going to be a slow rollout, 410 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: always going to be a logistical nightmare for the paperwork 411 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: in the pen pushes. But the government does seem to 412 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: have finally realized it needs to up the anti The 413 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:10,400 Speaker 1: Prime Minister got a shot this afternoon of Astro's naka, 414 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: trying to prove to the public have confidence in that 415 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: in that drugmaker's vaccine, and that they do need to 416 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: be rolling out more sectors of the demographic population, trying 417 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 1: to increase the number of people who are taking the 418 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: vaccine because there is a lot of reluctance. We do 419 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,640 Speaker 1: have quite a strong anti VACS of movement here in France. 420 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: Let me follow up on this point of this astros 421 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 1: Enneca point. Who did the who did the locals blame 422 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: and and break it down for us. Is it is 423 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: it a politically uh polarizing issue over there like it 424 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 1: is in the United States. Who is getting the blame 425 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 1: or is there blame? Is there any palpable anger about 426 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: the third wave and having to go into new restrictions. Well, 427 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: I'll tell you where the anger is directed at. It 428 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,679 Speaker 1: the management by the government of the vaccination program. Government. 429 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 1: Actually it gets pretty high marks in public surveys for 430 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:07,640 Speaker 1: the economic support for the packages of financial aid for furlough, 431 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 1: for waging, the taxes for for certain sectors. But where 432 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 1: it is scoring low marks, guys, is on the vaccination 433 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: program and the management of that. The mixed messaging, the 434 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:21,440 Speaker 1: changing messaging. We heard President mccron saying that this vaccine 435 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:25,160 Speaker 1: might might only be quasi effective in older age groups. 436 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 1: But then we are also hearing today the French Authority 437 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: for Health saying that the Asasenica vaccine is for only 438 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,439 Speaker 1: the over fifty five, that actually only for the older 439 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 1: age groups. So this mixed messaging and this miscontrol, the 440 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 1: logistical problems that we've seen with this slow roll of 441 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 1: the vaccination program is really impacting the government. So let 442 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:49,439 Speaker 1: me just quickly just on that. From that perspective, do 443 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,919 Speaker 1: they feel do the Europeans feel that they are faring 444 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 1: better than the United States or do they feel that 445 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:01,919 Speaker 1: the United States had a better vaccination rollout? Well, are 446 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: they not thinking about it, to be honest, because they've 447 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: got to fill out of form if they want to 448 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,919 Speaker 1: go get milk. I mean, do you see the numbers 449 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: that the US, the UK, Israel or even country like 450 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 1: Chile are ahead in the vaccination programs. But when it 451 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,159 Speaker 1: comes to it, you're right, there are there are the 452 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: basic liberties of will I be able to go for 453 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: a walk in a park with a friend? Have I 454 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: remembered to fill in my form? Is there a police checkpoint? How? 455 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: I mean? It really is a kind of different way 456 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: of enforcing COVID nine team restrictions from what we've seen 457 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,360 Speaker 1: the U in the US and and Ross you mentioned 458 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,400 Speaker 1: that there is a fairly substantial anti vax or movement 459 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: over there, as there is here and here. What we're hearing, 460 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,439 Speaker 1: at least at this point, as you know, based on 461 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: the polling, is that that seems to be um. There 462 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: seems to be a lot of you know, Trump voters 463 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:58,199 Speaker 1: for instance, particularly men who are you know, against the 464 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: vaccine or reluctant to take the vaccine at this point, 465 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,879 Speaker 1: obviously that data is still coming out, But do you 466 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: get a sense there where this is coming from, this 467 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 1: anti vaxer movement, and if there's any sort of political 468 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,439 Speaker 1: element there as well. Well, we do see a lot 469 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:18,880 Speaker 1: of crossover genie in the broader themes of a lack 470 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: of confidence in the government, lack of confidence in the 471 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:28,640 Speaker 1: overall Washington or the overall picture of Paris. So when 472 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: it comes to the movement, it is in France. And 473 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,120 Speaker 1: I would say that the problems from what we saw 474 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:44,439 Speaker 1: was the vaccines that then start back and using designs 475 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: to vaccine movement French and I really a problem. That's 476 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 1: all right, Ross Culin, Ross Color, We're going to have 477 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: to leave it there, Ross Color, We're going to have 478 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: to leave it there. He is the Paris bureau chief 479 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: for Feature Story News, and he joins us on the 480 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 1: line from overseas in Paris, France, just hours away again 481 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: before a new lockdown is going to effect as a 482 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 1: third wave of COVID nineteen moves through Europe. That Astra 483 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: Zeneca UH scenario has just rocked, not just obviously markets, 484 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,640 Speaker 1: but everyday life and and that was just a fascinating 485 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: dispatch rick from from Paris. I mean we were we 486 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: were talking about it in the Bloomberg Eye beach at 487 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: internally here, but I mean yet broadcasting from the nation's capital, 488 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: particularly since January six. I I know how much this 489 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: city was rocked and still in many ways remains rocked. 490 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: But hearing that dispatch, Wow, it's like another world. Yeah 491 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: it is, and uh, but it's not isolated. I mean, 492 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: I have a lot of friends who live and work 493 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: in Israel, and this is how Israel handed the first 494 00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: wave of the of the virus attack. Is they locked 495 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 1: everybody down. You had to have permission to go shopping. 496 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 1: You couldn't go outside except for certain days depending upon 497 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: your last name and how it's spelled. I mean, it 498 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: was very tense. We did not see that level of 499 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: lockdown here. We complained about the lockdown we had, but 500 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: it was nothing compared to some of these other countries 501 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: like Israel, and ultimately um uh, they were able to prevail, 502 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: but it didn't stop a second way from happening, right, 503 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: And as soon as they loosened up the restrictions, another 504 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: wave came. And so just because France's uh putting on 505 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 1: these very tough restrictions. It's how they come out of 506 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: it is what's important, not how they went into it. 507 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 1: And and if they don't come out of it with 508 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: a lot of people vaccinated between now and when they 509 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: loosen these restrictions up, they risk another wave of attack 510 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: by the virus, especially these variants that are moving their 511 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: way through Europe so aggressively. Well, Jennie, I mean, it's 512 00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: just another world from Texas, another world from Florida, from Maryland, 513 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: as all of the drip drip of reopenings continue to happen, 514 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: and I'm just sitting here thinking to myself, please don't 515 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: let the United States get a third wave. Well, that 516 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 1: that is I think. I I messaged Rick this a 517 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: few days ago as we're hearing and this is how 518 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: you know that because we were what two or three 519 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: weeks behind all these waves, and I said, oh no, 520 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: because it seemed like we were getting such good news. 521 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: And obviously the United States has you know, still does 522 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: to your point, as a result of the tremendous work 523 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: on the vaccines by both administrations. But I am just, 524 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: you know, really stunned by how this lockdown is going forward, 525 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: and you know, to Rick's point, if they don't, you know, 526 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 1: people will, I think recently, get frustrated if they don't 527 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: see results at the end of that. I think one 528 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 1: of the things about Israel is that they have done 529 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: a very good job. So maybe people see, Okay, we 530 00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: will give up some of these freedoms because in return 531 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: will get some you know, we we we will, they will, 532 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:04,959 Speaker 1: The benefits will be there. But you know, in Europe 533 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: it's been a very very different story, and I'm fascinated 534 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: that we haven't seen her, at least over here as 535 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: much push push back from people as we have in 536 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 1: places like you mentioned Texas and elsewhere, and yes, and 537 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: and especially you know, I think the most politicized issue 538 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: here on the on the COVID front has been schools 539 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: um and to some extempt, you could tie immigrations of 540 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen I think as as well. But let's reset here. 541 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 1: I'm Kevin Curili, chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg Television and 542 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 1: for Bloomberg Radio. I'm accompanied by my colleagues, Bloomberg Politics 543 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: contributors Jeanie Schnzano, as well as Rick Davis. We are 544 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: awaiting remarks from UH from President Biden at Emory University 545 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: on what has been just a fascinating geopolitical, uh geopolitical 546 00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 1: week on the US China front as well as on 547 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: the US H Russia front. But we're going to be 548 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: checking in US soon with Keith croc. He's the former 549 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: Under Secretary of State for Economic Affairs UM in the 550 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: Trump administration. He received unanimous approval. He was voted for 551 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: confirmation by all Democrats and all Republicans in the administration, 552 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: and largely was a political figure. Of course, he has 553 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 1: deep experience in the private sector as well. He's the 554 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 1: former CEO of Docu sign. But he has this new 555 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: news Week column out that Rick Davis alluded to earlier 556 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: in the program, headlined the Chinese Communist Party is committing genocide. 557 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: Now you can stop it and you wrote it with 558 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: Ellie Kohan um Um and it's in the In the 559 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 1: column he goes on too, he writes quote. In January, 560 00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: the world marked International Holocaust Remembrance Day. On this annual 561 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: day of commemoration, the United Nations urged every country to 562 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: honor the six million Jewish victims of Nazi genocide by 563 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 1: developing programs to prevent future genocides. In a u N ceremony, 564 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 1: American and European leaders joined Holocaust survivors in conveying the 565 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 1: urgent responsibility to remember the Holocaust by defending the truth 566 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 1: now more than ever. For the last seventy six years, 567 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 1: we have committed to never again permit genocide to happen 568 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: on our watch. Um. But it's happening right now. And 569 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: he lays out what's happening in the Shenjang province. Rick, 570 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 1: do you think we're gonna start Do you think that 571 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: this will be an a political issue that Elizabeth Warren 572 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 1: and Ram Paul are going to be united on in 573 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 1: the months ahead. Yeah, I think any effort to try 574 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: and find accommodation with China, and we've talked about different 575 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: ways through you know, sort of health policy and climate 576 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: where some of the positives may come out. We've heard 577 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 1: a lot about the negatives this week. Um um. But 578 00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 1: there are those like uh Senators Warren Paul who have 579 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 1: a very inward looking foreign policy attitude. Right then their 580 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 1: attitude would be, Hey, these people are committing genocide and uh, 581 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 1: and we want to roll up the carpets. We don't 582 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: want to deal with China. We shouldn't do things with 583 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 1: them that would empower them. Uh. And so I think 584 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 1: it's going to be a mixed bag when it comes 585 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 1: to selling this. But I would say they represent a 586 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: minority of opinion on Capitol Hill. Related to China, I 587 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,759 Speaker 1: think that you you see this as becoming a very 588 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: bipartisan issue. We always look for things we can unify 589 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,239 Speaker 1: Republicans and Democrats around in China's bad behavior is one 590 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: of them. Just before we bring Keith crock into this conversation, 591 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 1: I want to hit a red headline that crossed the 592 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 1: Bloomberg terminal just moments ago, the US Ways Global Benchmark 593 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,360 Speaker 1: on Climate Impact for Wall Street. Again, a red headline 594 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 1: crossing the Bloomberg Terminal, the US Ways Global Benchmark on 595 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 1: Climate Impact for Wall Street. The Biden administration is considering 596 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 1: ways to push the global finance industry into consistently accounting 597 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: for carbon dioxide missions and green investments. According to people 598 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,880 Speaker 1: familiar with the matter, no doubt Senator Kevin Kramer and 599 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 1: Congressman Andy Barr, two Republicans who have introduced counter legislation 600 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 1: earlier this week on that front, are going to try 601 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,359 Speaker 1: to stop it. Let's welcome to the program. Once again 602 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 1: the former Under Secretary of State for Economic Affairs, Keith Croc, 603 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 1: who again received bipartisan confirmation, and he is the author 604 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,839 Speaker 1: of this new UH, this new op ed in Newsweek 605 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,799 Speaker 1: headline the Chinese Communist Party is committing genocide. Now you 606 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 1: can stop it. Uh. Keith, It's great to have you 607 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,959 Speaker 1: back on the program. I appreciate the time. Are you caught? 608 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,439 Speaker 1: What what can the United States do to stop this 609 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 1: massacre from happening? Well, you know, there's a lot that 610 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 1: the United States can do, Kevin. And you know, this 611 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 1: is punishable genocide as defined by the United Nations Convention 612 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:56,879 Speaker 1: on Prevention and Punishment of Genocide. And I think it's 613 00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:00,400 Speaker 1: really important, UM, that we do the That was one 614 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,240 Speaker 1: of the things we outlined in in the news Week article, 615 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: UH in honor of honoring the memory of the Holocaust 616 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: UH survivors. And you know, the first thing is the 617 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 1: government has done a lot, right UH, both administrations, UH. 618 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: Secretary Blanket convernment, President Biden confirmed genocide is happening right now. 619 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 1: And and what we go on and we talk about 620 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: is the different organizations, UM, that are actually missing from 621 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 1: speaking out about it. And I'm talking about the biggest 622 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 1: Asset Managers of the United States. We're talking about the 623 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:48,320 Speaker 1: E s G community, which is environment, Social and Governance 624 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 1: standards that fifteen years ago it was you know, it 625 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 1: was seventeen billion dollars of funds. Now seventeen trillion dollars 626 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 1: of fund We're talking about the World Economic Form, we're 627 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 1: talking about the International Olympics of it. Nobody's stepping up 628 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: because as Speaker Pelosi talked about it, in terms of 629 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:13,399 Speaker 1: commercial interests, that basically means a conflict of interest. So 630 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: the thesis of of the piece, and I think really 631 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,759 Speaker 1: is the key, is if it is to be, it's 632 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:22,360 Speaker 1: up to me, it's up to that, it's up to 633 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: all citizens, and and that is to you know, probably 634 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:31,880 Speaker 1: the most important way to make a difference is with 635 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 1: your pocketbook, because the empty the cash register could be 636 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 1: heard loudest here um in shin Jong, and you know, 637 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 1: that was one of the things that we talked about. 638 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 1: If you are uh, you know, you have a pen, 639 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: you have a pension fund, uh, mutual fund ets, you 640 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:58,320 Speaker 1: give to your university in terms of endowments or philosthrophic foundations. 641 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: All those uh you have you know, have investment in 642 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,319 Speaker 1: Chinese companies. Hey, Keith, this is that's one of the 643 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,879 Speaker 1: things you know you want to ask your financial advis Look, 644 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not willing to do that anymore. I 645 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:15,280 Speaker 1: think that's the biggest difference having than the average citizen 646 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: to do right. And Keith is Rick Davis. Thanks for 647 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 1: being on the program. It's very timely with all the 648 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 1: events taking place in in Anchorage this week, and and 649 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: I wanted to go back on that issue with you 650 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 1: a little bit because we saw the success of of 651 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 1: of South Africa's apartheid bands UH with investment firms UH 652 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,280 Speaker 1: pulling their money out of companies that are doing business 653 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,960 Speaker 1: with the South African government. We we we see this 654 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,920 Speaker 1: UH in many other forms. Is there a chance to 655 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:51,400 Speaker 1: form a disinvestment in China campaign? I mean you you 656 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,439 Speaker 1: mentioned some of the organizations that are critical to that, 657 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,320 Speaker 1: But we live in a cancel culture, and I would 658 00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:01,000 Speaker 1: think that this is one of the ways people can participate, 659 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 1: whether they're managing large pools of assets or as you 660 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,879 Speaker 1: point out, have a four oh one k that that 661 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:12,799 Speaker 1: that might have investments in Chinese companies. By the way, 662 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,640 Speaker 1: I think it's a beautiful analogy. And we looked at 663 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: that as a matter of fact, because that was obviously 664 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,280 Speaker 1: a very successful campaign and it made a big difference. 665 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 1: And remember remember not not buying cougar RAN's right, I mean, 666 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 1: as if we all want to go out and buy gold. 667 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 1: But that was something that I thought was very successful, 668 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 1: I know, and and it started it at the university 669 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 1: level and then it spread and I remember back then 670 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 1: I was at General Motors that just started and we 671 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:44,319 Speaker 1: had you know, big manufacturing facilities out of there, and 672 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 1: we ended up pulling back because of what the shareholders said. 673 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 1: So it did make it different. It is a it's 674 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 1: really a great analogy. So I think the question is 675 00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,520 Speaker 1: why hasn't that been done because this is the side 676 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:05,800 Speaker 1: and you know, the question asked is, you know, people 677 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:10,560 Speaker 1: feel like China's too big to fail. Um our people 678 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 1: uh conflicted and and understand, you know, we've been silent 679 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,919 Speaker 1: for decades on this, and we've looked the other way. 680 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,959 Speaker 1: We don't want to make that same mistake that we made, 681 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 1: you know back in you know, in Nazi Germany. A 682 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,680 Speaker 1: matter of fact, we financed them. I mean, we we 683 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,840 Speaker 1: sent our best bankers, lawyers, we found them through the 684 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,279 Speaker 1: pension funds and we all did it and that's bi 685 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 1: partisan too, But now we got to do something about it. 686 00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:41,480 Speaker 1: And when I was at the State Department run Economics diplomacy, 687 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 1: I sent UH letters to all of the CEOs and 688 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:48,759 Speaker 1: their boards in the United States. Also do the same 689 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,360 Speaker 1: thing with all the university government boards. And then I 690 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,719 Speaker 1: also sent one to all the leaders of civil society 691 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 1: organizations to really uh first of all, make them aware 692 00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:03,040 Speaker 1: and and ask for that to do it because you know, 693 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,640 Speaker 1: I mean my restarnsil value and out here we say 694 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,680 Speaker 1: corporate responsibility of social responsibility. Well this is a big one, mm. 695 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 1: And the things that makes it up is you know, 696 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:21,080 Speaker 1: either people are conflicting or they're afraid of is they're 697 00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,960 Speaker 1: afraid of Shina's retaliation. They're afraid that they just like 698 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 1: I was right, right, and I want to ask you 699 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,040 Speaker 1: about that, Genie. I know you have a question first, 700 00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,040 Speaker 1: go ahead. Yeah, Keith, it's great to talk to you. 701 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,919 Speaker 1: And the piece is is really really an important piece 702 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,920 Speaker 1: for everybody to read on that point. You know, another 703 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,960 Speaker 1: thing that makes it tough for the Biden administration now 704 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,200 Speaker 1: to take this on is that we also need to 705 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,920 Speaker 1: work with with Beijing on other issues like climate and 706 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:50,759 Speaker 1: like health and so many other issues. So what is 707 00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,279 Speaker 1: your your what are your thoughts in terms of how to, 708 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,279 Speaker 1: on the one hand, take on this issue of human 709 00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,440 Speaker 1: rights violations which is so critically important, while at the 710 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,799 Speaker 1: same time still maintaining an ability to work with them 711 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:04,840 Speaker 1: in other areas that we need to work with them on. 712 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,200 Speaker 1: By the way, it's a great question. So number one, 713 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,440 Speaker 1: don't let them do what they want to do, and 714 00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,160 Speaker 1: that is they want to link issues. They want to 715 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:18,120 Speaker 1: link working together on the environment with us with hey, 716 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,799 Speaker 1: you guys be quiet on Shin John. So don't let 717 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:23,920 Speaker 1: them link thinks, well, you can't do that. Let me 718 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:25,520 Speaker 1: let me jump in here. You can't do that when 719 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,680 Speaker 1: half of the world's global supply of polysilicon comes from 720 00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,040 Speaker 1: the Sinjang province, which is the key metal to make 721 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,880 Speaker 1: solar panels and is the same province where the weaker 722 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,879 Speaker 1: human rights abuses are taking place. Right Keith, by the way, 723 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:40,759 Speaker 1: you're you're absolutely right. I mean, if you look at 724 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,960 Speaker 1: the polly silicon uh plants, which are essential for solar 725 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,640 Speaker 1: panels and semi conductors, they learned by that and the 726 00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:50,600 Speaker 1: bastement George made in Shin John, and they make it 727 00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,920 Speaker 1: with slave labor. And they also make it with cold 728 00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:57,200 Speaker 1: fired plants. I mean, their biggest coal mines are there, 729 00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,600 Speaker 1: so and it takes a lot of energy, and so 730 00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:03,680 Speaker 1: you can't let them link it. The other thing too, 731 00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:06,719 Speaker 1: is I think that we've all learned and by the way, 732 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:09,680 Speaker 1: it is the most unified bipartisan issue is that the 733 00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 1: only way to deal with Jina is from a position 734 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:16,680 Speaker 1: of strength. So you have to, uh, you have to 735 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,480 Speaker 1: challenge them. You have to compete with them, and you've 736 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:21,520 Speaker 1: got to compete with them first before you can ever 737 00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:25,520 Speaker 1: expect to get any cooperation because mentality is the zero 738 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,319 Speaker 1: sum mentality they talk about when win. But that's but 739 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,680 Speaker 1: that's a head bag. That's what we saw where I 740 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,680 Speaker 1: come from, or a grinds big or whatever you want 741 00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:39,400 Speaker 1: to call it. And theill honor agreements as long as 742 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:44,919 Speaker 1: um is a suits of prefence. Now let's think about yeah, uh, 743 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,799 Speaker 1: cooperating with them. On the environment. I don't think you 744 00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:51,719 Speaker 1: have a country more motivated in the world to have 745 00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:53,840 Speaker 1: clean energy than that. First of all, they have no 746 00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:58,040 Speaker 1: oil uh we I mean we're energy independent if you 747 00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,880 Speaker 1: look at fossil fuels. They would love to get off that. 748 00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:05,520 Speaker 1: The second thing is through the leaders in developing clean 749 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 1: energy technology. That means more jobs, that means more dominant 750 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:15,799 Speaker 1: post By two thousand and fifty, experts say that um 751 00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:18,680 Speaker 1: of the world's energy is going to come from solar. 752 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 1: They all the solar business. So they're motivating. So what, 753 00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:24,640 Speaker 1: you know, what are we gonna say that they're gonna 754 00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:28,480 Speaker 1: do whatever they want to do? And and and and 755 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,160 Speaker 1: they might say, hey, you know, we want something for 756 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,200 Speaker 1: an exchange that they were going to do it anyway, Keith, 757 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,839 Speaker 1: I wanted to get back to this issue of sort 758 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,080 Speaker 1: of how you define some of the genocidal activity. And 759 00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:44,520 Speaker 1: one question I had that I have not really quite 760 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:47,799 Speaker 1: understood is part of what this is all about is 761 00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:51,439 Speaker 1: the fact that these these minorities are Muslims, and and 762 00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:55,239 Speaker 1: what what what's happening is China is basically running a 763 00:44:55,280 --> 00:45:00,760 Speaker 1: campaign of persecution and genocide against all religious minorities. And 764 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,120 Speaker 1: and so where is the Muslim community on this? I mean, 765 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,319 Speaker 1: we see China doing a lot of business in the 766 00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:09,760 Speaker 1: Middle East, you know, Egypt, one of the largest Muslim 767 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:14,120 Speaker 1: communities in the world. Uh, you don't seem to see 768 00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:18,600 Speaker 1: the outrage, frankly that you saw when Muslim minorities were 769 00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:22,439 Speaker 1: being uh targeted in the Balkans War, where the United 770 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:25,680 Speaker 1: States came to their defense there. Here we are sort 771 00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:29,320 Speaker 1: of standing in a very singular position without the Muslim 772 00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:32,200 Speaker 1: community really making as much noise as you would have thought. 773 00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,920 Speaker 1: You know. Uh, it's really a stud of you. And 774 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:40,040 Speaker 1: you're exactly right. Um, you know that. Uh. In the fall, 775 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:42,520 Speaker 1: I traveled to forty countries, a lot of them in 776 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,200 Speaker 1: the Middle East, and we talked about this. Have you 777 00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:51,279 Speaker 1: been tested what I wanted forty countries. Have you been 778 00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:56,160 Speaker 1: tested for COVID. There's a lot of I've been tested 779 00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,000 Speaker 1: eight times. We generally were tested every We had to 780 00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,879 Speaker 1: abort a mission once because I was sign a clean 781 00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:05,239 Speaker 1: network agreement with three different prime ministers in the same day. 782 00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:08,000 Speaker 1: The last one, the Bulgarian one, came down with it 783 00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:12,120 Speaker 1: and we we went to Byre that night. We were 784 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,040 Speaker 1: flying a STOUTI we read it. I go, guys, we're board, 785 00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:17,480 Speaker 1: and we're not We're not going, you know, to give 786 00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:23,920 Speaker 1: this all these uh COVID. But anyway, Uh, you're absolutely 787 00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,400 Speaker 1: right and and and and I'll be honest with you, 788 00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,880 Speaker 1: I really don't understand it. And the only thing that 789 00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:34,239 Speaker 1: I can say is that these countries, even in all 790 00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,759 Speaker 1: these countries, I mean, who who's going to be the 791 00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:43,439 Speaker 1: biggest customer for oil was China and and and and 792 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,919 Speaker 1: who has a record of retaliation intimidation. I mean they've 793 00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:53,960 Speaker 1: shut down countries like Norway, like South Korea. So this 794 00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:58,160 Speaker 1: is where this is why American leadership is so key. 795 00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,000 Speaker 1: And by the way, this is also why formed the 796 00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,480 Speaker 1: Clean Network a life of Democracies, where we were able 797 00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:08,760 Speaker 1: to get sixty countries representing two thirds of the world's 798 00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,600 Speaker 1: global GDP two gelcos and does is a high text 799 00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,440 Speaker 1: clean company and we defeated Walaway well like they were 800 00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:18,120 Speaker 1: going to run the table a year ago. It's a 801 00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:21,920 Speaker 1: winning formula and it can be applied not only in 802 00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:26,160 Speaker 1: all areas of technology and also clean energy and infrastructure, 803 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,799 Speaker 1: but I think also on human rights as well. I 804 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:33,040 Speaker 1: said this earlier. I said this earlier M. Bloomberg surveillance, 805 00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:35,520 Speaker 1: and and I I was thinking about it more today. 806 00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:37,200 Speaker 1: And I don't want to make I don't want to 807 00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,319 Speaker 1: make this a punchline because it's actually really not. It's 808 00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:43,280 Speaker 1: a horrific, horrific uh comparison to draw. But I mentioned 809 00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:49,000 Speaker 1: Hollywood and celebrities and the fashion industry as well as 810 00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:53,160 Speaker 1: the makeup industry. Think hair extensions. I think Hollywood is 811 00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,040 Speaker 1: gonna be talking a lot about hair extensions in the 812 00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:59,960 Speaker 1: months ahead, especially as more Democrats and Republicans start speaking 813 00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,880 Speaker 1: out against the horrific genocide that's happening UH in the 814 00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:08,960 Speaker 1: Shenjang Province, which also a massive export is cotton from 815 00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,680 Speaker 1: from that particular region in China as well. Keith CrOx 816 00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:15,160 Speaker 1: with us. He's the former Under Secretary of State for 817 00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:20,759 Speaker 1: Economic Affairs. He received bipartisan confirmation from his Senate confirmation 818 00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:23,960 Speaker 1: when he served in the Trump administration, but Senator Ben Carton, 819 00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:28,920 Speaker 1: one of the leading Democratic voices on foreign policy, praised 820 00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:32,160 Speaker 1: his UH confirmation and called him one of the most 821 00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:36,560 Speaker 1: qualified individuals for the job. He is also founder and 822 00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:39,440 Speaker 1: CEO of Docu Signed and a host of other companies 823 00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:41,239 Speaker 1: as well. We were talking in the in the ib 824 00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:47,040 Speaker 1: chat Uh the Um about some of the stories you 825 00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:48,880 Speaker 1: have from your time on the road. One of the 826 00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:52,040 Speaker 1: last trips you took was a trip to Taiwan, and 827 00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:54,000 Speaker 1: I know that you and I have talked about this offline. 828 00:48:54,680 --> 00:49:01,040 Speaker 1: When the Chinese flew military test flights as if to 829 00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:03,680 Speaker 1: send some type of message Now we in the United 830 00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:07,440 Speaker 1: States were focused on the domestic elections here because that 831 00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:12,000 Speaker 1: was a major, major international incident when it occurred. Just 832 00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:16,560 Speaker 1: describe for us that what what what happened when you 833 00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,120 Speaker 1: were when you were in Taiwan, you were the highest 834 00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:24,120 Speaker 1: ranking US official traveling there, and then you see Communist 835 00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:31,399 Speaker 1: party military planes. What happened? Yeah, he's a highest State 836 00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:36,280 Speaker 1: Department official in forty years. Um, I'm reading with forty 837 00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:42,240 Speaker 1: fighters and bombers flying over uh. Uh you know, crossing 838 00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:46,720 Speaker 1: a crossing the line. Um. And uh. It was a 839 00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:49,000 Speaker 1: big reaction by it. And and the reason why I 840 00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:53,680 Speaker 1: was going it was to honor um because it lead 841 00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:57,239 Speaker 1: it was memorial service he had passed and heeds their 842 00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:03,759 Speaker 1: father of democracy and smcs A George watching of of Taiwan. Um, 843 00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:07,960 Speaker 1: and you know, and since then, thinks have just it's 844 00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:13,160 Speaker 1: really uh, it's really amped up, and it's it's a situation. 845 00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:18,200 Speaker 1: It is critical to our national security for multiple reasons, 846 00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:22,239 Speaker 1: not just from a military standpoint, but also from a 847 00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:26,960 Speaker 1: high tech standpoint, because the leaders and manufacturing of semi conductors, 848 00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:28,399 Speaker 1: and that was one of the big things we did 849 00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,840 Speaker 1: as we we got we did the biggest onshore in 850 00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:34,759 Speaker 1: US history with a twelve billion dollars stays in the 851 00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:40,200 Speaker 1: R five nanometer uh uh semi conductor planted from TSMC 852 00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:44,640 Speaker 1: who's the leader in the world. Um and and kinda 853 00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:48,800 Speaker 1: signed obsessed with the semi conductor. So the objective of 854 00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,759 Speaker 1: the game and what we did when I was over 855 00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,279 Speaker 1: there was set up an economic dialogue and we later 856 00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:59,759 Speaker 1: side an economic prosperity partnership in all different areas from 857 00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:06,000 Speaker 1: high tech too if the structured manufacturing just um Economic 858 00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:08,320 Speaker 1: Department of Women had based all that, and then we 859 00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:11,239 Speaker 1: later signed the Science and Technology Cooperation Agreement with the 860 00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,560 Speaker 1: goal of getting to the point of doing a TIFA, 861 00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,240 Speaker 1: which is the first step to a free trade agreement. 862 00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:20,640 Speaker 1: And the reason why that's important is because that's the 863 00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,279 Speaker 1: thing goes to our private sector. It is the place 864 00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:27,200 Speaker 1: to invest. And when the US private sector, the allies 865 00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:30,680 Speaker 1: and invest, and when the allies invest that if something 866 00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:36,920 Speaker 1: kinetically happened, uh, we we need those allies um. And 867 00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:44,200 Speaker 1: you know, it's this is a really really important uh situation. 868 00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:51,040 Speaker 1: And you know, I think, yeah, the Biden administration is 869 00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:55,399 Speaker 1: doing a really good job trying to balance what's going 870 00:51:55,480 --> 00:52:00,640 Speaker 1: on there because China's got designed is on that and 871 00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:03,040 Speaker 1: and you know all you have to do is Hong 872 00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:09,040 Speaker 1: Kong and right right right, Well, listen, Keith, I know 873 00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:10,600 Speaker 1: you've been so generous with your time, and I want 874 00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,440 Speaker 1: to thank you for your time, especially coming on on 875 00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:17,279 Speaker 1: such an incredibly important week on geopolitics. Again. That's Keith 876 00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:20,759 Speaker 1: Cracky is the former Under Secretary of State UH for 877 00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:24,680 Speaker 1: Economic Affairs UH, and he joined us UH after the 878 00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:27,359 Speaker 1: publication of that new Newsweek column which you can read 879 00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:30,640 Speaker 1: on Newsweek, and it's about what's happened to the horrible 880 00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:35,680 Speaker 1: situation that's happening in in the Shinjang province with the 881 00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:39,279 Speaker 1: with the weaker Muslim minority group. I'm Kevin Cilli. I'm 882 00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:42,080 Speaker 1: the chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg Television, for Bloomberg Radio, 883 00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:46,279 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis and Jeanie shan Zeno are 884 00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:49,879 Speaker 1: with me. We are now, according to a Biden aid, 885 00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:53,160 Speaker 1: a little less than five minutes away from President Joe 886 00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:59,000 Speaker 1: Biden's remarks from Emory University, where we will take those remarks. UH. 887 00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:02,279 Speaker 1: Vice President Kamala Harris is speaking now. Reck. I mean 888 00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:05,640 Speaker 1: you just hear it from Keith, and to hear him 889 00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:08,480 Speaker 1: praise the Biden administration for the approach that they're taking. 890 00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:11,839 Speaker 1: I think it bears repeating that this is a much 891 00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:18,080 Speaker 1: more unified United States on geopolitics that has emerged over 892 00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:20,759 Speaker 1: the last two years. In terms of how to deal 893 00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:24,440 Speaker 1: with China, No question, I think that China policy prior 894 00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:27,680 Speaker 1: to that period of time Kevin Um was in adrift. 895 00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:31,920 Speaker 1: The Obama administration really didn't confront China on serious issues 896 00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:35,160 Speaker 1: of human rights and economic disparity and and and the 897 00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:37,879 Speaker 1: Trump administration took a little while to figure out whether 898 00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:41,440 Speaker 1: they were forward or against it, but by the end 899 00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:44,320 Speaker 1: of the second year of his administration they formulated this 900 00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:48,920 Speaker 1: China response, primarily focused on economics and the pushback in 901 00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:53,080 Speaker 1: the marketplace there, but the Biden administrations filling out the 902 00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:56,480 Speaker 1: rest of that agenda, which we saw on firm display 903 00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:02,400 Speaker 1: this week in Anchorage, Alaska, between our negotiat negotiators between 904 00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:05,480 Speaker 1: the US and China. So I think we're entering a 905 00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:10,960 Speaker 1: brand new, very distinctly different relationship with China. Uh It's 906 00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:13,400 Speaker 1: going to take an enormous amount of state craft to 907 00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:17,920 Speaker 1: ensure that it is productive and doesn't turn into a 908 00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:21,560 Speaker 1: shouting match. But I do think the Biden administration has 909 00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:24,239 Speaker 1: goals and objectives that they want to get done, and 910 00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:26,680 Speaker 1: I think that, uh, that we'll see those start to 911 00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:29,480 Speaker 1: emerge in the near future. The big question is, now, 912 00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:33,800 Speaker 1: does this set up a Biden ge summit in the spring, 913 00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:37,200 Speaker 1: and if so, what do we hope to accomplish there. Jennie, 914 00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,800 Speaker 1: It's the easy question to ask, is is this a 915 00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:43,839 Speaker 1: new Cold War with China? It's one that I think 916 00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:45,920 Speaker 1: has you know, been just I don't think you can 917 00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:50,239 Speaker 1: compare the US Russia relationship to the U S China relationship. 918 00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:54,800 Speaker 1: I think that this is this is an economic disentanglement 919 00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:57,680 Speaker 1: that is going to take a very long time to 920 00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,800 Speaker 1: sort out. Uh. It's it's almost as if the United 921 00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:04,000 Speaker 1: States is leaving leaving a conservatorship for lack of a 922 00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:07,520 Speaker 1: better pop culture word, in terms of where things are moving. 923 00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:11,759 Speaker 1: And it's interesting because this has been coming and as 924 00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:14,160 Speaker 1: you and Rick were just talking about for a long time, 925 00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:16,719 Speaker 1: and it does feel like that we are entering an 926 00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:20,719 Speaker 1: era where there is bipartisan agreement on how to confront 927 00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:24,680 Speaker 1: China finally after a long time. But I think Rick's 928 00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:29,640 Speaker 1: questioned about the where is the Muslim world on for instance, 929 00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:32,560 Speaker 1: the weakers is the right question to ask, and it 930 00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:34,680 Speaker 1: brings us full circle to what we were talking about, 931 00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:38,399 Speaker 1: which is Keith's answer, which is that the Muslim world 932 00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:43,040 Speaker 1: has become economically beholdened to a certain extent to China, 933 00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,200 Speaker 1: and so can we break that hold? I think is 934 00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,680 Speaker 1: a really really big question that looms out there, and 935 00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:52,320 Speaker 1: not just about this issue with China, but about so 936 00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:56,160 Speaker 1: much of China's investments in other nations to break our 937 00:55:56,200 --> 00:56:00,719 Speaker 1: alliances and higher education institutions, entanglements with China in and 938 00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:04,040 Speaker 1: fashion uh companies, Yeah exactly, I mean yeah, just to 939 00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:08,120 Speaker 1: to echo that, all right, let's take a breather from geopolitics, 940 00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:10,239 Speaker 1: and I want to read two headlines as we await 941 00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:13,800 Speaker 1: for President Biden to speak that just crossed the terminal 942 00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:19,439 Speaker 1: on my Friday ready. UM Governor Andrew Cuomo faces new 943 00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:24,280 Speaker 1: claims of sexual harassment from a current AID Again. Governor 944 00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:27,200 Speaker 1: Andrew Cuomo faces new claims of sexual harassment from a 945 00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:31,360 Speaker 1: current AID and a new headline from the Associated Press. 946 00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:35,960 Speaker 1: Former President Trump's moral lago is now partially closed due 947 00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:37,480 Speaker 1: to a COVID outbreak.