WEBVTT - Episode 4: The Grand Jury 0:00:15.356 --> 0:00:21.396 Pushkin. Hey, it's Jake. I got a quick favorite ask. 0:00:22.076 --> 0:00:25.636 If you've been enjoying deep Cover The Nameless Man, please 0:00:25.676 --> 0:00:29.636 consider leading a review in Apple Podcasts. It helps new 0:00:29.676 --> 0:00:33.476 listeners find the show, and that in turn will help 0:00:33.596 --> 0:00:48.596 us continue making future seasons. Thank you. Previously on deep Cover. 0:00:51.236 --> 0:00:54.356 I think that when it comes to certain particular depths, 0:00:54.756 --> 0:00:57.796 I think that sometimes we put on the front with 0:00:57.876 --> 0:00:59.916 the world like we've gotten over it. 0:01:00.636 --> 0:01:05.916 I used to watch the unsolved Myschivy shows and I 0:01:06.036 --> 0:01:10.556 often thought about calling How can a person get killed 0:01:10.596 --> 0:01:14.596 and no one knows anything. She said, you have to 0:01:15.196 --> 0:01:17.756 forgive the person they killed your brother, And I don't 0:01:17.796 --> 0:01:18.916 even know this person. 0:01:18.716 --> 0:01:22.556 Is Terry, And I said, it may be that this 0:01:22.596 --> 0:01:26.316 does not ever go to a court, even with Craig's cooperation, 0:01:26.916 --> 0:01:28.636 that this is ever going to see the inside of 0:01:28.676 --> 0:01:35.916 a court. This all may be just to give Aron 0:01:36.076 --> 0:01:43.476 Wood's family some sense of understanding. 0:01:50.596 --> 0:01:53.436 By the summer of two thousand and six, roughly two 0:01:53.476 --> 0:01:57.916 years into their investigation, Scott and Terry had made real progress. 0:01:58.716 --> 0:02:01.836 The two federal agents had obtained a confession from the 0:02:01.876 --> 0:02:05.716 alleged accomplice, Craig Peterson, and with the help of the 0:02:05.756 --> 0:02:09.436 Philly PD. The agents had identified the man they leave 0:02:09.516 --> 0:02:13.996 to be the victim, Aron Wood. For years, the Wood 0:02:14.036 --> 0:02:17.916 family had wanted answers about Iran's death. They yearned for 0:02:17.996 --> 0:02:22.556 closure and for justice. Now finally there was some movement, 0:02:23.116 --> 0:02:27.036 A case was mounting against the alleged shooter, Tom Geybison. 0:02:28.116 --> 0:02:31.436 Was definitely a different type of case. I don't think 0:02:31.436 --> 0:02:35.676 there's been really anything similar to it since that I've heard. 0:02:36.316 --> 0:02:39.996 That's Carmen Weinberger. Back in two thousand and six, she 0:02:40.116 --> 0:02:43.556 was an assistant district attorney in Philadelphia. She worked in 0:02:43.596 --> 0:02:46.716 the homicide unit, and she was assigned to work on 0:02:46.756 --> 0:02:47.356 this case. 0:02:47.916 --> 0:02:51.916 You know, a skinhead coming to Philadelphia to kill somebody. 0:02:52.676 --> 0:02:56.836 A cowardly act when it all boils down to it, 0:02:57.236 --> 0:02:58.756 a cowardly act. 0:02:59.036 --> 0:03:01.396 By this point in her career, Carmen had been a 0:03:01.396 --> 0:03:03.636 prosecutor for well over a decade. 0:03:04.156 --> 0:03:06.676 So when I graduated at high school, I knew I 0:03:06.676 --> 0:03:09.236 wanted to be a prosecutor. When I went to to 0:03:09.436 --> 0:03:11.676 the University of Pennsylvania, I knew I wanted to be 0:03:11.716 --> 0:03:14.836 a prosecutor. When I went to Temple Law School, I 0:03:14.916 --> 0:03:16.476 knew I wanted to be a prosecutor. 0:03:17.436 --> 0:03:19.476 It sounds like you knew you wanted to be a prosecutor, 0:03:20.556 --> 0:03:26.196 just ad bit. Carmen's father had also been an assistant 0:03:26.196 --> 0:03:30.076 district attorney, and Carmen says her dad raised her to 0:03:30.116 --> 0:03:30.556 be tough. 0:03:31.636 --> 0:03:35.036 He said, always do the right thing, and don't take 0:03:35.116 --> 0:03:39.356 any blank off of anybody. You can fill in the blank. 0:03:41.836 --> 0:03:44.756 Carmen says she took this advice to heart, didn't take 0:03:44.836 --> 0:03:49.196 blank from anybody. And this was important because she's a 0:03:49.196 --> 0:03:52.156 woman of color, which at the time was a real 0:03:52.276 --> 0:03:55.676 rarity in the homicide unit at the DA's office in Philly. 0:03:56.876 --> 0:04:00.476 Carmen was helped out in part by her mentor. His 0:04:00.596 --> 0:04:04.396 name was Roger King. He passed away in twenty and sixteen, 0:04:04.596 --> 0:04:08.076 but at the time Roger was a legendary figure in 0:04:08.076 --> 0:04:12.476 the Philadelphia DAE. It was Roger who first helped Carmen 0:04:12.556 --> 0:04:15.236 land a spot in homicide unit back in the early 0:04:15.276 --> 0:04:19.756 two thousands, and Roger was the lead prosecutor on this case. 0:04:20.596 --> 0:04:23.316 After thirty five years in the courtroom. This was actually 0:04:23.356 --> 0:04:26.756 going to be Roger's last case before he retired, and 0:04:26.836 --> 0:04:31.156 he'd brought Carmen on board to help him win. Carmen 0:04:31.236 --> 0:04:35.916 had seen many grisly murder cases, but there was something 0:04:35.956 --> 0:04:39.116 about this one that seemed especially unsettling. 0:04:40.116 --> 0:04:44.996 Not that any murder isn't disturbing, but this particular murder 0:04:45.036 --> 0:04:49.116 and the reason for it, the hate. This was a 0:04:49.236 --> 0:04:57.676 hate crime. It's hard to fathom the depraved nature of 0:04:57.996 --> 0:05:03.276 someone that could just kill someone in cold blood based 0:05:03.356 --> 0:05:08.676 on the color of their skin. It was bad luck 0:05:09.876 --> 0:05:14.036 for that man to be found in North Philadelphia that 0:05:14.276 --> 0:05:19.276 night in April of nineteen eighty nine. 0:05:19.316 --> 0:05:23.796 The authorities believed that man was Iron Wood, and now 0:05:23.956 --> 0:05:26.876 it was up to Roger Carmen and the DA's office 0:05:26.916 --> 0:05:30.516 in Philly to see this through to ensure that the 0:05:30.556 --> 0:05:34.316 Wood family got the closure and the justice that they needed. 0:05:35.756 --> 0:05:38.836 Carmen's task was to marshal all the evidence she could. 0:05:39.436 --> 0:05:41.716 She would have the help of the Philly PD and 0:05:41.836 --> 0:05:45.876 also of Scott and Terry, the two federal agents, and 0:05:45.956 --> 0:05:49.196 she and Roger King had one more card to play, 0:05:49.956 --> 0:05:54.396 arguably their best. They could convene a grand jury, which 0:05:54.436 --> 0:05:58.116 is basically like a preliminary hearing, but it's held in secret. 0:05:58.676 --> 0:06:02.236 The defendant doesn't even know it's happening. The prosecution can 0:06:02.236 --> 0:06:07.196 subpoena witnesses require them to testify so it's like a 0:06:07.236 --> 0:06:10.556 test run the prosecution and can see how strong the 0:06:10.596 --> 0:06:13.796 case is before making a final decision on whether to 0:06:13.836 --> 0:06:18.956 go forward and seek an indictment. If there was an indictment, 0:06:19.276 --> 0:06:22.876 Tom Guybison would be arrested, there'd be a trial, likely 0:06:22.916 --> 0:06:27.916 a very high profile trial, and Carmen's boss, the legendary prosecutor, 0:06:27.996 --> 0:06:31.356 Roger King, would have his final day in court in 0:06:31.476 --> 0:06:37.236 rather dramatic fashion. But Carmen knew it all came down 0:06:37.316 --> 0:06:41.236 to evidence. It had been almost twenty years since iron 0:06:41.276 --> 0:06:45.036 Wood was murdered, and that's the challenge with cold cases. 0:06:45.916 --> 0:06:52.036 Evidence vanishes, memories fade, witnesses slip away, which is why 0:06:52.076 --> 0:06:55.956 the grand jury was so important, so the prosecution could 0:06:55.996 --> 0:07:15.276 figure out was this a case they could win. I'm 0:07:15.356 --> 0:07:19.676 Jake Calpern and this is Deep Cover Season four, The 0:07:19.756 --> 0:07:47.476 Nameless Man, Episode four, the grand Jury. Throughout the summer 0:07:47.516 --> 0:07:50.516 of two thousand and six, the two federal agents on 0:07:50.556 --> 0:07:54.756 the case, Scott and Terry, were still scrambling. They were 0:07:54.796 --> 0:07:58.316 working together with the PHILLYPD to look under every stone 0:07:58.636 --> 0:08:01.636 and gather as much evidence as they could in preparation 0:08:01.756 --> 0:08:05.236 for the grand jury. So far, here's what they had 0:08:05.676 --> 0:08:08.676 They had an ex girlfriend named Patricia Miller. You heard 0:08:08.716 --> 0:08:11.836 about her episode one. She's the one who claimed that 0:08:11.916 --> 0:08:15.316 Tom had bragged about killing a black man. She said 0:08:15.556 --> 0:08:19.316 Tom had a newspaper article covering the man's death and 0:08:19.436 --> 0:08:24.916 boasted that this was his doing. The FEDS also had 0:08:24.956 --> 0:08:28.636 a confession from Craig, the man claiming to be the accomplice. 0:08:29.316 --> 0:08:32.276 Craig said that he and Tom had driven into Philadelphia 0:08:32.436 --> 0:08:35.436 in the spring of eighty nine and used a thirty 0:08:35.476 --> 0:08:41.916 eight caliber revolver to murder a black man. But what 0:08:42.036 --> 0:08:45.436 else could the FEDS find? Was there any physical evidence 0:08:45.556 --> 0:08:48.476 or were there any other witnesses who could help corroborate 0:08:48.556 --> 0:08:52.636 Craig's story, witnesses who Carmen and Roger could then bring 0:08:52.676 --> 0:08:57.196 before the grand jury. So Scott and Terry, they weren't 0:08:57.236 --> 0:08:59.996 done yet. There were a few leads they were still 0:09:00.036 --> 0:09:03.116 chasing down. I'm going to tell you about three of them. 0:09:03.396 --> 0:09:06.156 Three leads they hoped would tip the balance in the 0:09:06.196 --> 0:09:14.236 case and provide Carmen and the prosecution just what they needed. Okay, 0:09:14.436 --> 0:09:17.396 let's start with the smoking gun. And I mean that 0:09:17.476 --> 0:09:21.436 quite literally, because if Scott and Terry could find the 0:09:21.596 --> 0:09:25.476 actual murder weapon, the thirty eight that Tom Guybison supposedly 0:09:25.636 --> 0:09:30.276 used back in eighty nine. Well, that'd be huge in theory. 0:09:30.436 --> 0:09:32.596 They could then match the gun with the bullet that 0:09:32.716 --> 0:09:35.436 killed the victim because they had the bullet it had 0:09:35.476 --> 0:09:40.316 been recovered from Iran's body. Problem was, according to Craig, 0:09:41.076 --> 0:09:42.476 Tom said he was going to get rid of the 0:09:42.556 --> 0:09:46.076 murder weapon, so maybe it had been destroyed. No one 0:09:46.116 --> 0:09:49.756 knew for sure. Then one day Terry was talking with 0:09:49.756 --> 0:09:52.596 his boss over at the ATF and Terry mentioned this 0:09:52.676 --> 0:09:55.276 problem they were having finding the murder weapon. 0:09:56.116 --> 0:09:57.556 I said, I don't know how I'm gonna find this thing. 0:09:57.596 --> 0:09:57.876 I said. 0:09:58.036 --> 0:10:00.236 I said, he might even throw it in the river. 0:10:00.316 --> 0:10:04.076 Who knows. And my boss says to me, you know 0:10:04.116 --> 0:10:05.636 what he said? Actually he said, I was on an 0:10:05.676 --> 0:10:07.676 audit a few months ago, and you know they have 0:10:07.836 --> 0:10:10.756 guys evidence of out there on the first Guns case. 0:10:12.796 --> 0:10:15.676 The first gun case, if you recall, back in the 0:10:15.756 --> 0:10:19.356 nineteen nineties, Tom Guybison had been arrested and imprisoned on 0:10:19.396 --> 0:10:22.756 a gun's charge. He had since been released, but the 0:10:22.836 --> 0:10:26.276 evidence from that case, the weapons that the FEDS had seized, 0:10:26.636 --> 0:10:30.956 were still apparently in storage, and Terry's boss over at 0:10:30.956 --> 0:10:34.756 the ATF knew this because, quite by chance, he'd been 0:10:34.796 --> 0:10:38.636 involved in a routine audit of stockpiled evidence, kind of 0:10:38.716 --> 0:10:41.876 like spring cleaning, like when you open that dusty room 0:10:41.876 --> 0:10:44.436 in your basement and go through all the junk that 0:10:44.476 --> 0:10:47.796 you haven't touched in years. The FEDS they do this too, 0:10:48.036 --> 0:10:52.996 with all their old evidence. Anyway, Terry's boss remembered seeing 0:10:53.076 --> 0:10:56.756 Tom's old guns. So Terry gets on the phone with 0:10:56.836 --> 0:10:58.636 someone over at the ATF and. 0:10:58.596 --> 0:11:04.036 Asks, Hey, do you have any thirty eight Calvary volrus 0:11:04.116 --> 0:11:09.116 flowing to Tommy and your evidence? She goes yes. I'm like, oh, 0:11:09.116 --> 0:11:10.636 oh my goodness. 0:11:10.996 --> 0:11:13.516 So now all they have to do is run a 0:11:13.596 --> 0:11:16.956 test at the ballistics lab to see if there's a match. 0:11:17.916 --> 0:11:21.276 Terry asked for the test to be expedited then weighted 0:11:21.396 --> 0:11:25.796 with baited breath, but when the examiner called back, he 0:11:25.836 --> 0:11:28.636 told Terry that there was a problem with the bullet. 0:11:29.236 --> 0:11:32.236 It's too deformed. I can't make a definitive match. I 0:11:32.276 --> 0:11:34.956 can't match up the lands. And they're called lands and 0:11:34.996 --> 0:11:38.876 grooves in a barrel of a firearm that make a 0:11:38.996 --> 0:11:43.156 unique microscopic signature where you can say, hey, tick a fingerprint. 0:11:43.236 --> 0:11:45.396 This was the same gun because I can't do it. 0:11:45.396 --> 0:11:46.116 It's too deformed. 0:11:46.996 --> 0:11:50.876 So Lead number one didn't pan out. Maybe this was 0:11:50.916 --> 0:11:54.076 the weapon, maybe it wasn't. There was just no way 0:11:54.076 --> 0:11:57.476 to know for sure, which meant it was of no 0:11:57.556 --> 0:12:07.676 real use to Carmen Roger and the prosecution. Lead number 0:12:07.756 --> 0:12:12.276 two involved, of all things, a high school prom. You 0:12:12.316 --> 0:12:15.716 may remember that Craig, the alleged accomplist, said that the 0:12:15.796 --> 0:12:19.356 murder occurred in the spring of eighty nine, the spring, 0:12:19.836 --> 0:12:22.996 and Creig remembered this because he said it happened shortly 0:12:23.036 --> 0:12:27.356 before prom that both he and Tom attended. Tom went 0:12:27.396 --> 0:12:30.356 with his girlfriend at the time, another teenager named Jen. 0:12:31.516 --> 0:12:33.716 We're just going to use her first name in order 0:12:33.756 --> 0:12:37.996 to protect her identity. The agents Scott and Terry decided 0:12:38.276 --> 0:12:41.076 they should really talk with Jen and see if she 0:12:41.156 --> 0:12:44.876 remembered anything useful from the time. So they met Jen 0:12:44.996 --> 0:12:48.116 briefly at a coffee shop. They explained, we want to 0:12:48.156 --> 0:12:51.796 talk to you about Tom Guybison. Jen was visibly shaken, 0:12:52.316 --> 0:12:54.956 but she agreed to have a sit down with them. 0:12:55.036 --> 0:12:57.716 A short while later, they met up at her house, 0:12:58.756 --> 0:13:01.756 and this is when Jen started talking about her prom 0:13:01.796 --> 0:13:04.476 back in eighty nine. Her prom was held at the 0:13:04.516 --> 0:13:08.316 DuPont Hotel in downtown Wilmington. This is a grand old 0:13:08.396 --> 0:13:13.916 hotel to nineteen thirteen, with crystal chandeliers, parquet floors, gilded 0:13:13.956 --> 0:13:18.356 trim the whole deal. Jen says. At some point during 0:13:18.356 --> 0:13:21.436 the prom, Tom got in an argument with another prom goer. 0:13:21.956 --> 0:13:25.796 Things apparently got heated. Tom readied for a fight, and 0:13:25.836 --> 0:13:29.196 he rolled up his shirt sleeves, revealing an elaborate spider 0:13:29.236 --> 0:13:34.476 web tattoo that he'd recently gotten. In the end, tempers cooled. 0:13:36.236 --> 0:13:39.516 At some point in the night, Tom apparently boasted about 0:13:39.516 --> 0:13:49.876 his tattoo, saying, quote, do you know what this means? 0:13:51.076 --> 0:13:54.476 Scott and Terry, they vetted this whole prom night story. 0:13:55.076 --> 0:13:57.916 They actually tracked down other people who had attended the 0:13:57.956 --> 0:14:00.356 same prom back in nineteen eighty nine. 0:14:01.036 --> 0:14:05.716 We actually got in contact with more people than I 0:14:05.716 --> 0:14:09.436 would have expected. I want to say, maybe six people, 0:14:09.516 --> 0:14:12.276 seven people that I was I think I was pretty 0:14:12.316 --> 0:14:15.356 surprised that we actually found them and talked to them, 0:14:15.396 --> 0:14:16.516 and they were willing to talk to us. 0:14:17.236 --> 0:14:21.196 Both Scott and Terry say that to a person, everyone 0:14:21.236 --> 0:14:25.836 they spoke with recalled Tom boasting about how and why 0:14:25.956 --> 0:14:29.276 he'd gotten his tattoo here's Scott. 0:14:29.516 --> 0:14:32.556 What Terry and I liked from talking to each and 0:14:32.596 --> 0:14:36.836 every one of them was they all told the same story. 0:14:38.036 --> 0:14:40.236 They all told it in the same sense of shock. 0:14:40.836 --> 0:14:48.836 They all relived that moment now feeling guilt. I think 0:14:48.876 --> 0:14:52.996 one even said, I always had it in the back 0:14:53.036 --> 0:14:55.956 of my mind that it was true, and I'm so 0:14:56.156 --> 0:14:59.916 upset I never told somebody so they could have looked 0:14:59.956 --> 0:15:00.356 into it. 0:15:01.516 --> 0:15:04.716 According to Jen, Tom had boasted about this murder on 0:15:04.836 --> 0:15:08.996 other occasions as well. Tom allegedly showed her a newspaper 0:15:09.156 --> 0:15:12.236 article from the Philadelphia Inquirer about a man who had 0:15:12.276 --> 0:15:18.956 been killed, and he claimed that he was responsible. Bottom line, 0:15:19.436 --> 0:15:22.836 Jen was another witness that the prosecution could bring before 0:15:22.876 --> 0:15:26.596 the grand jury to bolster their case. Of course, what 0:15:26.716 --> 0:15:30.916 she said didn't prove anything definitively, but the accounts from 0:15:30.956 --> 0:15:35.996 these two ex girl friends, combined with Craig's confession, felt substantial. 0:15:37.276 --> 0:15:40.836 This brings us to lead number three. Well, it wasn't 0:15:40.876 --> 0:15:44.076 so much of a lead as it was a memory test, 0:15:44.916 --> 0:15:49.636 a very very hard memory test. That's after the break. 0:16:03.796 --> 0:16:06.636 Aroan Wood was killed on the thirteen hundred block of 0:16:06.636 --> 0:16:10.556 North Stillman Street in Philadelphia, a block or so away 0:16:10.796 --> 0:16:14.556 from the walled campus of Gerard College. This was a 0:16:14.636 --> 0:16:19.196 known fact, and this got Scott and Terry thinking could 0:16:19.236 --> 0:16:23.636 Craig somehow independently verify that this was in fact the 0:16:23.676 --> 0:16:27.076 sight of the murder that he'd help commit, Because if 0:16:27.116 --> 0:16:30.716 he could verify this, well, then that might cement the 0:16:30.756 --> 0:16:35.316 whole thing. Up until now, Craig maintained that he could 0:16:35.356 --> 0:16:38.396 not recall an exact location or street name where it 0:16:38.396 --> 0:16:41.596 all went down. But it seemed like it was worth 0:16:41.636 --> 0:16:45.196 exploring this a bit further. Maybe they could test his memory. 0:16:46.076 --> 0:16:48.836 In other words, get him in a car, drive him 0:16:48.836 --> 0:16:51.876 to Philly, and just hope that he could lead them 0:16:51.876 --> 0:16:56.036 to the location. If this worked, it could really enhance 0:16:56.116 --> 0:17:00.356 the value of Craig's confession and helped tie it more 0:17:00.396 --> 0:17:02.836 directly to the murder of iron Wood. 0:17:04.156 --> 0:17:07.596 We say you to Craig, you were there, we weren't. 0:17:08.476 --> 0:17:15.516 Perhaps you blocked it out. Let's just drive and unblock 0:17:15.596 --> 0:17:16.076 your mind. 0:17:17.916 --> 0:17:21.196 The idea was that Craig might see something an exit ramp, 0:17:21.236 --> 0:17:26.036 a park, a building, some landmark that would spark his memory. 0:17:26.116 --> 0:17:29.236 It was a gamble. If it worked, it might really 0:17:29.276 --> 0:17:33.236 help their case. But the danger was if it didn't work, 0:17:33.636 --> 0:17:36.476 If They drove to thirteen hundred North Stillman Street and 0:17:36.556 --> 0:17:40.556 Craig said, no, this is not the spot. What do 0:17:40.596 --> 0:17:43.156 you do? Then the whole case could be at risk. 0:17:44.476 --> 0:17:47.276 In the end, Scott and Terry felt they had to 0:17:47.276 --> 0:17:50.716 give it a try, had to roll the dice. So 0:17:51.196 --> 0:17:53.876 they arranged to make a road trip. They put Craig 0:17:53.916 --> 0:17:59.236 in the car and they drove to Philly. All right, 0:17:59.396 --> 0:18:02.436 just situate me. Where are we in the city right now? 0:18:03.196 --> 0:18:09.116 We are in North Philadelphia, in and around Gerard College. 0:18:09.796 --> 0:18:13.316 So this is me and Scott this past fall. Basically, 0:18:13.316 --> 0:18:15.916 I asked Scott to show me where exactly they had 0:18:15.956 --> 0:18:18.996 taken Craig. So he drove around a bit in Scott's 0:18:19.036 --> 0:18:21.916 car in the vicinity of the murder site, just like 0:18:21.996 --> 0:18:24.436 he'd done with Craig back in two thousand and six. 0:18:25.476 --> 0:18:28.916 And right away I began to see the challenges that 0:18:28.956 --> 0:18:32.596 this memory test presented. Rowhouses. I mean, the blocks are 0:18:32.676 --> 0:18:35.636 kind of indistinguishable. I mean there's a few landmarks, but 0:18:35.676 --> 0:18:38.596 a lot of these blocks look almost identical to one another. 0:18:38.756 --> 0:18:41.636 Oh absolutely, I mean this is this is the beauty 0:18:41.676 --> 0:18:47.836 of Philadelphia. You just have these amazing row homes and 0:18:49.156 --> 0:18:52.956 you could see it's very easy to get lost, but 0:18:52.996 --> 0:18:57.516 it's also very easy to confuse one block from another. 0:18:59.476 --> 0:19:01.956 It was clear to me if this was a test 0:19:01.996 --> 0:19:05.236 of Craig's memory, the difficulty level was dealed up to 0:19:05.316 --> 0:19:08.676 expert mode. It had been nearly twenty years and it 0:19:08.676 --> 0:19:12.356 didn't make any easier that the city scape just unfurled 0:19:12.396 --> 0:19:17.796 like a vast, unvarying canvas. There was at least one 0:19:17.876 --> 0:19:21.516 feature of the landscape that did really stand out, the 0:19:21.636 --> 0:19:25.036 wall that surrounded the campus. It was a ten foot 0:19:25.116 --> 0:19:28.516 high stone wall that just went on and on for 0:19:28.596 --> 0:19:33.156 blocks and blocks. And if you recall, when Craig first confessed, 0:19:33.476 --> 0:19:36.396 he talked about seeing a wall near the murder site, 0:19:37.036 --> 0:19:40.356 so it seemed like this might be it the landmark 0:19:40.396 --> 0:19:45.076 that jogged his memory. But Scott says when he drove 0:19:45.156 --> 0:19:48.916 here with Craig down this very street, Craig could not 0:19:49.036 --> 0:19:57.996 give him a definitive answer. It was all just maybe maybe. 0:19:58.876 --> 0:20:02.396 Scott and I continued on following the wall for several blocks, 0:20:02.876 --> 0:20:06.156 then turned right on a north Stillman Street, headed down 0:20:06.196 --> 0:20:10.756 to the thirteen hundred block, and then we pulled up 0:20:10.796 --> 0:20:14.276 to the intersection where it happened where Iron was murdered. 0:20:15.916 --> 0:20:19.036 The mood, and the car turned somber. Neither of us 0:20:19.076 --> 0:20:23.116 spoke for a moment. At this point, I'd spent months 0:20:23.116 --> 0:20:26.236 looking into the story, and on the one hand, it 0:20:26.276 --> 0:20:30.636 felt strangely momentous to finally be here at the spot. 0:20:31.116 --> 0:20:33.916 Some part of me half expected to see a marker, 0:20:34.236 --> 0:20:38.916 a sign, even some wilted flowers, anything to indicate that here, 0:20:39.116 --> 0:20:43.996 right here, a man's life had ended suddenly. But in reality, 0:20:44.436 --> 0:20:48.956 there was nothing. It was just another intersection, similar to 0:20:48.996 --> 0:20:53.516 all the others, which apparently was exactly how it looked 0:20:53.516 --> 0:20:53.916 to Craig. 0:20:54.996 --> 0:20:59.716 We did come to this intersection, and there was not 0:21:00.076 --> 0:21:04.036 anything that I remember Craig saying without a doubt other 0:21:04.116 --> 0:21:07.916 than this very well could be it, but I couldn't 0:21:07.916 --> 0:21:08.676 tell you for sure. 0:21:08.796 --> 0:21:09.036 This is. 0:21:11.476 --> 0:21:13.996 So In the end, the gamble, it was sort of 0:21:13.996 --> 0:21:17.476 a push, not really a loss, but not a win either. 0:21:18.236 --> 0:21:21.596 And it also seemed to underscore a fundamental limitation with 0:21:21.676 --> 0:21:25.676 this case, a limitation that exists in so many cold cases, 0:21:26.276 --> 0:21:30.316 simply that time had passed seventeen years to be exact 0:21:30.916 --> 0:21:34.036 time in which memories had eroded, time in which the 0:21:34.116 --> 0:21:37.556 case may have weakened, and this would be the fundamental 0:21:37.636 --> 0:21:41.916 challenge for Carmen and the Philadelphia DA's office. There was, 0:21:42.036 --> 0:21:44.396 at the end of the day, only so much that 0:21:44.556 --> 0:21:48.116 investigators could provide in the way of proof. Some of 0:21:48.116 --> 0:21:51.756 it was quite compelling, mainly the first person account from Craig, 0:21:52.756 --> 0:21:56.516 but there were holes, gaps in what was known, and 0:21:56.596 --> 0:22:02.476 these gaps would become unspoken invitations, courting the doubts of 0:22:02.556 --> 0:22:10.556 all those who might pass judgment. In preparing for the 0:22:10.636 --> 0:22:14.916 grand jury, Carmen, the Assistant DA, was clear eyed about 0:22:14.916 --> 0:22:18.556 the challenges they faced. I asked her what they had 0:22:18.636 --> 0:22:21.636 in terms of forensic evidence, not a. 0:22:21.596 --> 0:22:29.476 Big CSI case, forensically from the eighties, and you got 0:22:29.476 --> 0:22:33.676 a dead body, and you've got a bullet from the 0:22:33.716 --> 0:22:36.196 dead body. That's it. 0:22:37.516 --> 0:22:41.156 The strength of the prosecution's case hinged on three witnesses. 0:22:41.796 --> 0:22:45.236 There were the two ex girlfriends, Jen and Patricia. They 0:22:45.356 --> 0:22:49.236 each claimed independently that Tom had boasted about committing a murder. 0:22:49.916 --> 0:22:54.676 The third witness was Craig, the alleged accomplice. Before the 0:22:54.716 --> 0:22:58.276 grand jury convened, Carmen spent time with each of the witnesses. 0:22:58.916 --> 0:23:02.196 She found them all credible and a bit nervous too. 0:23:02.356 --> 0:23:05.676 The girlfriends each claimed that Tom Guybison had been violent 0:23:05.756 --> 0:23:09.236 with him in the past. What's more, Carmen believed that 0:23:09.476 --> 0:23:12.996 by agreeing to testify, they were putting themselves at risk. 0:23:13.876 --> 0:23:16.236 Well, they know him better than anybody else, so they 0:23:16.276 --> 0:23:18.836 knew what he was capable of. It's not easy to 0:23:18.836 --> 0:23:23.156 get on the witness stand and talk about who you 0:23:23.276 --> 0:23:26.516 used to care about and how bad they were, the 0:23:26.596 --> 0:23:30.396 things that they did, whether you still love him or not, 0:23:31.076 --> 0:23:32.156 not an easy thing to do. 0:23:33.636 --> 0:23:37.476 The most important witness by far was Craig Peterson. 0:23:38.356 --> 0:23:43.036 I found him to be very credible. I also think 0:23:43.036 --> 0:23:47.876 he was remorseful, and I in a lot of ways 0:23:47.876 --> 0:23:52.596 felt sorry for him because I thought, just from the 0:23:52.636 --> 0:23:57.556 witnesses in general, Diabson was the bully to all of 0:23:57.596 --> 0:24:01.716 them in different ways, and I believe he was a 0:24:01.756 --> 0:24:03.316 bully to Craig Peterson. 0:24:04.636 --> 0:24:06.716 I wasn't expecting you to say that you felt sorry 0:24:06.716 --> 0:24:08.516 for him. 0:24:08.796 --> 0:24:13.676 Yeah. I probably wasn't expecting say that either, but I 0:24:13.756 --> 0:24:19.476 did it. There was remorse, You could feel the remorse. 0:24:20.396 --> 0:24:26.156 You could see it in this guy, remorse to his soul, 0:24:27.436 --> 0:24:30.276 and in a lot of ways, I think him cooperating 0:24:30.436 --> 0:24:40.556 was purging what he did to him, trying to somewhat 0:24:40.756 --> 0:24:44.716 make amends to that person that they killed and to 0:24:44.796 --> 0:24:49.476 the person's family. And I don't feel that way about 0:24:49.556 --> 0:24:54.276 many defendants. I really don't, especially the homicide defendants. But 0:24:56.236 --> 0:24:59.996 I did feel that about him, and I still feel 0:25:00.036 --> 0:25:00.716 it to this day. 0:25:02.476 --> 0:25:06.236 Craig left a lasting impression on Carmen. She can still 0:25:06.236 --> 0:25:07.916 picture him in her mind's eye. 0:25:09.116 --> 0:25:14.636 I can recall Peterson because I looked at him and 0:25:15.316 --> 0:25:19.156 felt Peterson's the skinhead. He looks like he's mixed with black. 0:25:20.876 --> 0:25:28.156 I remember that he has an olive complexion that causes 0:25:28.156 --> 0:25:32.796 me to believe I'm biracial, so I pay attention to 0:25:32.836 --> 0:25:39.476 those things. I always thought he was mixed somewhere in there. 0:25:40.156 --> 0:25:42.716 I don't know if he was adopted. Maybe he didn't 0:25:42.796 --> 0:25:47.356 realize it, maybe he did, but I always thought, and 0:25:47.436 --> 0:25:51.516 to this day I can remember and see his faith. 0:25:52.196 --> 0:25:58.396 He looked like he could have been reletant. He was 0:25:58.516 --> 0:26:01.076 very fair, but he wasn't that fair. 0:26:02.676 --> 0:26:06.196 Carmen brought this up to me totally unprompted, though I 0:26:06.276 --> 0:26:09.556 wasn't entirely surprised because I had heard this same thing 0:26:09.596 --> 0:26:13.996 from Scott Duffy, the FBI agent. Quite the bombshell, or 0:26:13.996 --> 0:26:18.236 maybe I should say potential bombshell, because I don't know 0:26:18.276 --> 0:26:21.796 if it's true. If you recall, Craig went to federal 0:26:21.836 --> 0:26:25.396 prison in the nineteen nineties. His prison records list his 0:26:25.556 --> 0:26:29.396 race as white. But that's really all I can say. 0:26:30.196 --> 0:26:32.476 I've been in touch with Craig. We first spoke a 0:26:32.516 --> 0:26:34.996 few months ago on the phone. I had hoped that 0:26:35.036 --> 0:26:36.996 he'd go on the record and share his side of 0:26:36.996 --> 0:26:40.116 the story. I eventually sent him a letter with all 0:26:40.156 --> 0:26:42.516 the info that we've included on him in this series 0:26:42.996 --> 0:26:46.236 to give him a chance to respond, and this is 0:26:46.236 --> 0:26:50.396 what he wrote back. Dear Jake, I give my permission 0:26:50.476 --> 0:26:53.836 and ask to have the following herd. I've not responded 0:26:53.876 --> 0:26:57.116 because I've been contemplating for many hours the positive and 0:26:57.236 --> 0:27:00.756 negative things that can occur by participating in your podcast. 0:27:01.556 --> 0:27:05.316 I'm going to decline, but would like to say my life, 0:27:05.596 --> 0:27:10.356 my beliefs, and views are very different now. I do 0:27:10.476 --> 0:27:26.756 sincerely regret any harm I've caused to everyone involved. In 0:27:26.796 --> 0:27:30.396 the summer of two thousand and six, the grand jury convened. 0:27:31.116 --> 0:27:35.556 The prosecution called its witnesses, including Craig, Peterson, the two 0:27:35.636 --> 0:27:39.956 ex girlfriends, the two federal agents Scott and Terry and 0:27:40.036 --> 0:27:44.876 also Louby, the detective from the Philadelphia PD. Was that 0:27:44.996 --> 0:27:49.036 a winning hand. Well, the prosecution thought so, because in 0:27:49.076 --> 0:27:54.196 the end they decided, yes, let's do this. They asked 0:27:54.196 --> 0:27:57.476 for an indictment against Tom Geibison for the murder of 0:27:57.516 --> 0:28:00.916 iron Wood, and the grand jury gave them the green light, 0:28:01.476 --> 0:28:05.556 confirming that yes, there was probable cause to believe that 0:28:05.596 --> 0:28:09.996 a crime had been committed. Charges were issued against Tom Guybison, 0:28:10.516 --> 0:28:15.436 including murder in the first degree. When it came time 0:28:15.476 --> 0:28:18.516 for the arrest, Scott and Terry were actually the ones 0:28:18.516 --> 0:28:21.716