1
00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:11,319
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey,

2
00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,080
Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's

3
00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,000
Speaker 1: Charles W. Chuck, Bryan Jerry's here and this is Stuff

4
00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:17,599
Speaker 1: you should Know.

5
00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:24,639
Speaker 2: And look, there's Andy Warhol. Yeah, Anitie Sedgwick and lou Reid.

6
00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:29,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Jackie Curtis and Valerie Solanas, the whole gangs here.

7
00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:32,200
Speaker 2: We did one on that right in the Scum Manifesto.

8
00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,600
Speaker 1: Yes, we did, okay. Chapter eighteen of our book is

9
00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:39,400
Speaker 1: on the Scum Manifesto in Valerie Solanas shooting Andy Warhol.

10
00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:41,239
Speaker 2: We did not do it as a podcast yet no,

11
00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:43,000
Speaker 2: Oh well, probably never will.

12
00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:47,800
Speaker 1: Oh okay, But I think, Chuck, before we get into this,

13
00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,800
Speaker 1: we should dispend something because I think it's very instructive

14
00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:55,520
Speaker 1: about Andy Warhol. He is. Probably the most famous quote

15
00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,080
Speaker 1: from him is that ever in the future, everyone will

16
00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:02,600
Speaker 1: be famous for fifteen minutes. And he didn't say that,

17
00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:05,440
Speaker 1: even in an interview in nineteen eighty he said he

18
00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:07,880
Speaker 1: didn't say it. He used it in I think a

19
00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:12,560
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty or sixty eight exhibition like the Notes, but

20
00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,600
Speaker 1: it wasn't his. There is at least four other people

21
00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:17,720
Speaker 1: who can make a claim to having said it first,

22
00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:20,800
Speaker 1: and that that says a lot about any Warhol that

23
00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:25,080
Speaker 1: he was not shy or embarrassed or even secretive about

24
00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,600
Speaker 1: taking other people's ideas, even asking for other people for

25
00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:32,120
Speaker 1: ideas to use in his own work. And then it

26
00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:37,000
Speaker 1: also shows that the idea that he said that, and

27
00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,720
Speaker 1: that that's so associated with him and his whole you know, ethos,

28
00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:45,200
Speaker 1: it also demonstrates that he himself was one of his

29
00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:49,240
Speaker 1: own works of art, his own brand, his own image,

30
00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,480
Speaker 1: his own everything about him was he was one of

31
00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:54,400
Speaker 1: his own works of art. And those two things are

32
00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:56,600
Speaker 1: all captured in just that one little quote.

33
00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good way to put it. A little

34
00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,560
Speaker 2: bit about his childhood before we get to the good stuff.

35
00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:07,480
Speaker 2: He was born, actually, Andrew WARHOLA he would drop the

36
00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,240
Speaker 2: a years later. He was born. And it's interesting you

37
00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:14,560
Speaker 2: think of Warhol as a contemporary artist, which he is

38
00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,040
Speaker 2: in some ways, but he was born in nineteen twenty eight.

39
00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:20,959
Speaker 2: It's not like, you know, he was a bit older

40
00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,840
Speaker 2: when he was at Studio fifty four in the nineteen seventies,

41
00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,520
Speaker 2: older as in my age.

42
00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,000
Speaker 1: Even stranger than that, chuck. He was born in.

43
00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:34,400
Speaker 2: Pittsburgh, yeah, well not stranger if you're from Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh

44
00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,600
Speaker 2: is very proud of their Warhol connection, especially to Carnegie

45
00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:42,320
Speaker 2: Mellon University, where he went. His parents were European immigrants

46
00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:44,920
Speaker 2: and his mother was an artist. He was the youngest

47
00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,840
Speaker 2: of three boys, and his parents were very encouraging of

48
00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,239
Speaker 2: his art. They got him a camera when he was

49
00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,120
Speaker 2: a little kid. They sent him to art classes and

50
00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,400
Speaker 2: eventually would pay for him to go. It was a

51
00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,840
Speaker 2: Carnegie Institute of Technology at the time, but Carnegie Mellon

52
00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,200
Speaker 2: now which is a great art school, which is kind

53
00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:02,360
Speaker 2: of period.

54
00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,960
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, it really is. I read that the whole

55
00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,920
Speaker 1: family just kind of, I don't want to say coddle,

56
00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,040
Speaker 1: but he was a bit of the center of attention.

57
00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,200
Speaker 1: He was the center of the family, being the baby

58
00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,760
Speaker 1: of three boys. And when he was a kid, he

59
00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:21,040
Speaker 1: came down with Sydenham Korea or Korea which is also

60
00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:23,639
Speaker 1: known as Saint Vitas dance, which is a really mean

61
00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:28,720
Speaker 1: name for a neurological disorder where you have involuntary movements,

62
00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,000
Speaker 1: and he was in bed for a number of months,

63
00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,119
Speaker 1: and he again just happened to have a mom who

64
00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,280
Speaker 1: was into art, who took that time to teach him

65
00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,240
Speaker 1: to draw, and then he also spent some of that

66
00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,520
Speaker 1: time reading celebrity magazine. So those two things that he

67
00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:48,160
Speaker 1: got into when he was sick in bed really kind

68
00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,560
Speaker 1: of came together to form the foundation of his whole career.

69
00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:53,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like you said, he was the youngest. He

70
00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:58,920
Speaker 2: was also ill. He had a skin discoloration issue. He

71
00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,280
Speaker 2: didn't like his nose. He thought his nose was bulbous

72
00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:06,240
Speaker 2: and misshapen. He was bullied at school. He was always

73
00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:08,680
Speaker 2: very just always felt bad. It's sort of about the

74
00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:10,720
Speaker 2: way he looked. And then later in life when he

75
00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:14,240
Speaker 2: would wear wigs and have plastic surgery and wear makeup

76
00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,520
Speaker 2: and stuff like that, people would say that sort of

77
00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:18,680
Speaker 2: you know, was andy. From the time he was young.

78
00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:21,920
Speaker 2: His father would die when he was just fourteen years

79
00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,800
Speaker 2: old of johndice liver. It was very hard on young Andrew.

80
00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,479
Speaker 2: He could not go to the funeral. I don't know

81
00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:29,760
Speaker 2: if that's from emotion.

82
00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he was completely overwhelmed.

83
00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Yeah, so he was hiding under his bed

84
00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,680
Speaker 2: during the wake. And eventually he would move to New

85
00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,000
Speaker 2: York City in nineteen forty nine, where he would drop

86
00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:45,640
Speaker 2: that a and become a very successful commercial illustrator kind

87
00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:46,400
Speaker 2: of pretty quickly.

88
00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:48,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, he knew how to hustle too. I read that

89
00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,240
Speaker 1: he would go to record stores and look at album

90
00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:53,520
Speaker 1: art and then pick out the labels that had the

91
00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,520
Speaker 1: coolest art, and then go to those labels and try

92
00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,520
Speaker 1: to get work from him. Man, it worked a lot,

93
00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:00,360
Speaker 1: and I think it's one of those things where once

94
00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,320
Speaker 1: you make a name for yourself with a couple of companies,

95
00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,960
Speaker 1: it gets easier and easier to get work. So he

96
00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,479
Speaker 1: made a pretty good name for himself. He made a

97
00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,360
Speaker 1: pretty good living as a commercial artist for at least

98
00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:15,000
Speaker 1: the first decade or so of his career. And he

99
00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,520
Speaker 1: had this style that I don't know was unique to him,

100
00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,320
Speaker 1: but you know, he basically adopted it himself, where he

101
00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:25,200
Speaker 1: would draw something, usually kind of out of proportion, some

102
00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,440
Speaker 1: parts were more detailed than others. It very very early

103
00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:32,520
Speaker 1: sixties drawing, like almost pink Panther type illustration, and then

104
00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,600
Speaker 1: he would blot the ink before it was dry, so

105
00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:37,960
Speaker 1: some parts would be thicker, some lines would be thicker

106
00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,000
Speaker 1: than other parts that were not even disconnected and almost

107
00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,760
Speaker 1: appeared dotted, and then he would go over and color

108
00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:47,000
Speaker 1: them in outside of the lines, like almost blot them

109
00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:51,200
Speaker 1: with paint. And he became really well known for that,

110
00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,480
Speaker 1: and it was really good to apply to women's shoes

111
00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:56,200
Speaker 1: and that was one of his favorite things to draw

112
00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:57,080
Speaker 1: commercial art for.

113
00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, he also started and this would come come in

114
00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:02,680
Speaker 2: very handy, as we will see when he sort of

115
00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,880
Speaker 2: had his assembly line art thing going at the factory,

116
00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,640
Speaker 2: he would he'd made stamps of things. He made rubber stamps,

117
00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,600
Speaker 2: and this is how he would do printmaking. So if

118
00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:14,200
Speaker 2: he had a client and was like, I love this,

119
00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:16,719
Speaker 2: but I don't like the color, he could go do

120
00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,200
Speaker 2: it again without starting all over, just by changing the

121
00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,080
Speaker 2: color out on the stamp. Or if he was doing

122
00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,960
Speaker 2: like screen printing or printmaking or something like that, He's

123
00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:29,000
Speaker 2: very easy to change things up. Then, like you said,

124
00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,800
Speaker 2: he won awards, he made some pretty good money. He

125
00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,120
Speaker 2: was out as a gay man in the nineteen fifties.

126
00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:38,800
Speaker 1: I've even both I've seen that he was and that

127
00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:39,400
Speaker 1: he wasn't.

128
00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,360
Speaker 2: Oh really, I've always seen that he was. But either way,

129
00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,400
Speaker 2: it was the art role of the nineteen fifties. Even

130
00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,719
Speaker 2: in that scene, it wasn't the most normal thing to

131
00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:51,320
Speaker 2: be out and proud.

132
00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:56,000
Speaker 1: Right for sure, No definitely. So one of the things

133
00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,320
Speaker 1: that made Andy Warhol Andy Warhol is he never really

134
00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:04,719
Speaker 1: saw the high art that he created gallery art versus

135
00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:09,280
Speaker 1: commercial art as something more elevated than the commercial art

136
00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:11,280
Speaker 1: work he did. It was just different or maybe he

137
00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,720
Speaker 1: could make more money for it. There were other people involved,

138
00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:18,400
Speaker 1: but he viewed the gallery owners, the curators and people

139
00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:22,000
Speaker 1: who would eventually commission him or you know, buy his work,

140
00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,640
Speaker 1: he would let them help shape it. Like he wasn't

141
00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,080
Speaker 1: like one of those you know the picture of the

142
00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:31,280
Speaker 1: artists who like can't take the first note about their work.

143
00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:33,760
Speaker 1: He would get like, yeah, exactly, like you were his

144
00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,600
Speaker 1: client when you were buying art from him. And that's

145
00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:40,280
Speaker 1: how he viewed it. And that was definitely new and

146
00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,040
Speaker 1: he carried that throughout his career and it had a

147
00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,040
Speaker 1: lot of benefits for him. And then toward the end

148
00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,480
Speaker 1: it really kind of detracted from his images.

149
00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:51,480
Speaker 2: We'll see, yeah, for sure. Early on, and this is

150
00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,000
Speaker 2: in the fifties, you got to remember he was selling

151
00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:58,280
Speaker 2: some self published art books. He had one called Studies

152
00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,040
Speaker 2: for a Boy Book that was in a gallery called

153
00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,040
Speaker 2: the Bodily Gallery, and it was his first solo exhibition.

154
00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,119
Speaker 2: They were sketches of young men. He was not shy

155
00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:13,040
Speaker 2: about projecting sexuality in any of his works, and like

156
00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,000
Speaker 2: we said, this is nineteen fifties. Even in the art world,

157
00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,200
Speaker 2: some people accepted that stuff. Other galleries were like, no,

158
00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,080
Speaker 2: we can't have like gay themed art in our gallery,

159
00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,280
Speaker 2: even in like a New York art gallery. So he

160
00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:26,760
Speaker 2: was kind of pushing the envelope early on with that stuff.

161
00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:29,520
Speaker 2: He worked with his mom. His mom lived with him,

162
00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:30,840
Speaker 2: she moved to New York and lived with him for

163
00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,400
Speaker 2: about twenty years, Yeah, until she left in I think

164
00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:37,240
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy one's where she went home to die, right.

165
00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, essentially. And another just like with his father, he

166
00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:43,840
Speaker 1: ignored letters from his cousin telling him like his mom

167
00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:47,360
Speaker 1: was dying and apparently she was holding out for him

168
00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,559
Speaker 1: to visit, and he never did. And I don't think

169
00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,480
Speaker 1: he went to her funeral either. And he said later

170
00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,439
Speaker 1: that in a quote that he couldn't bear think of it.

171
00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,559
Speaker 1: He likened her to a bird that had died recently,

172
00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:00,880
Speaker 1: and that he couldn't been there to think of the

173
00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:02,560
Speaker 1: bird dying. That he just liked to think that it

174
00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,040
Speaker 1: was out for a walk. Yeah, So that kind of

175
00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:07,480
Speaker 1: thing just totally overwhelmed. He was very close to his mother.

176
00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,000
Speaker 1: I mean, think about it. He lived with his mother

177
00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,760
Speaker 1: for twenty years. Yeah, during like the height of his

178
00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:16,040
Speaker 1: career and fame, and supposedly also they were both deeply

179
00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:21,080
Speaker 1: religious Byzantine Catholics, and he would carry a rosary around

180
00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,719
Speaker 1: in his pocket with him. But there's a lot of

181
00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:27,040
Speaker 1: legends and stories about Andy Warhol. There's also another story

182
00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,520
Speaker 1: that he would carry loose diamonds around his pocket because

183
00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,320
Speaker 1: he liked to just kind of, you know, jiggle him

184
00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,080
Speaker 1: around like they were loose change. So who knows. It's

185
00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,719
Speaker 1: not entirely documented, but there's there's a whole thread of

186
00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,040
Speaker 1: there's a whole camp that it's like, No, he was

187
00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:43,760
Speaker 1: super religious, he just kind of hit it.

188
00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:46,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was a bit of a conundrum in a

189
00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,040
Speaker 2: lot of ways. The more I read about him, it

190
00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,480
Speaker 2: was interesting because he could be quite kind and giving.

191
00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,120
Speaker 2: He could also be very cruel, even to friends of his.

192
00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,600
Speaker 2: As we'll see, he was a lot of things. He

193
00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:02,280
Speaker 2: was a well known liar, So even things that you

194
00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,640
Speaker 2: read that Andy Warhol said oftentimes was not the truth.

195
00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,640
Speaker 2: And the way I took it was he wasn't like,

196
00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,520
Speaker 2: oh he's a liar. He's a bad guy because he lies,

197
00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,280
Speaker 2: or it seemed like you just like messing with people

198
00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:16,600
Speaker 2: and he would just make stuff up.

199
00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, some people. It's funny because you know, from the

200
00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,280
Speaker 1: outside you think of Andy Warhol as almost like an

201
00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,040
Speaker 1: art god, but inside the art world, like there were

202
00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:27,719
Speaker 1: a lot of people who are just annoyed with him,

203
00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,200
Speaker 1: or I just thought he was lame or a creep.

204
00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,840
Speaker 1: I saw him compared to basically an energy vampire. Yeah,

205
00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:36,480
Speaker 1: but then like you said, other people are like no,

206
00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,199
Speaker 1: he was very kindly and very giving of himself and

207
00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,680
Speaker 1: of his money and help people get like a start

208
00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:44,839
Speaker 1: for in their art career that they were looking for,

209
00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,160
Speaker 1: like you, Yeah, like you said, he he was a

210
00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,280
Speaker 1: contradiction in terms in a lot of ways.

211
00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, big time. So he obviously is most famous for

212
00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,920
Speaker 2: being a pop artist. Pop art started in London in

213
00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,760
Speaker 2: the early fifties and Warhol was one of the first

214
00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:03,280
Speaker 2: few artists to kind of get involved in this art

215
00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:07,600
Speaker 2: movement that emerged from Dada and also just had a

216
00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,640
Speaker 2: lot of it was just sort of in the early

217
00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:12,840
Speaker 2: it was in the zeitgeist of the art scene at

218
00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:17,240
Speaker 2: the time of this idea of mass produced objects being

219
00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:20,320
Speaker 2: a theme. There was also, at the same time, though,

220
00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,439
Speaker 2: a very different world of people like Jackson Pollock and

221
00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:27,200
Speaker 2: abstract expressionism happening, people who are very serious about their

222
00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:32,080
Speaker 2: art and who I imagine did not appreciate this kid,

223
00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:33,839
Speaker 2: while he wasn't a kid by that point. But this

224
00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:37,080
Speaker 2: guy named Andy Warhol, this very eccentric guy, that's you know.

225
00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:39,680
Speaker 2: One of the very first things he did were those

226
00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,640
Speaker 2: celebrity screen prints, those silk screens, right.

227
00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:47,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the abstract expressionist kings, Williem d'cooning, told

228
00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,040
Speaker 1: Andy Warhol to his face that he was a killer

229
00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,559
Speaker 1: of beauty, a killer of art. He said, you even

230
00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:53,600
Speaker 1: kill laughter.

231
00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,760
Speaker 2: You know, dacooning. He killed La Laughter two himself.

232
00:11:57,800 --> 00:11:59,559
Speaker 1: He was pretty drunk at the time, but yeah, I'm

233
00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:03,920
Speaker 1: sure any Warhol didn't like to hear that. Right, So,

234
00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:07,840
Speaker 1: so he is associated with pop art, and it definitely

235
00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:13,040
Speaker 1: did dominate abstract expressionism, and it kind of said like, hey,

236
00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:14,880
Speaker 1: you don't have to just you don't have to take

237
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,800
Speaker 1: art quite so seriously. And not only that, are you

238
00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:21,640
Speaker 1: guys paying attention over here to how commercial and consumerist

239
00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:25,199
Speaker 1: America is becoming. Let's start meditating on that a little

240
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,240
Speaker 1: bit and like you said, one of the first ones

241
00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:32,280
Speaker 1: that really kind of gained attention were his silk screens

242
00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:36,240
Speaker 1: of celebrities like Marilyn Monroe. And I think one of

243
00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:39,640
Speaker 1: the first ones he did was Marilynd's portrait on a

244
00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,560
Speaker 1: gold background, and it was meant to basically kind of

245
00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:46,880
Speaker 1: look like a Renaissance icon of the Madonna. Just the

246
00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,600
Speaker 1: gold suggested it, I guess something like that. And what

247
00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:54,400
Speaker 1: he was essentially saying, he was equating celebrity as replacing religion. Now,

248
00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:56,560
Speaker 1: so it was kind of like comments like that that

249
00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,400
Speaker 1: was the basis of early top art.

250
00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,760
Speaker 2: Should we take a break? Yeah, I don't think this

251
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,800
Speaker 2: has any great cliffhangers, No, really, it doesn't. I was

252
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:09,200
Speaker 2: trying to find one, all right, So we'll take a

253
00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:11,080
Speaker 2: break now and we'll come back with the sort of

254
00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,720
Speaker 2: the beginning of Andy Warhol's pop art career right after this.

255
00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,440
Speaker 2: All right, So we mentioned before the break. In nineteen

256
00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:42,120
Speaker 2: sixty one, I think one of his first pop artworks

257
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,400
Speaker 2: was called black and White. It was black and white.

258
00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:49,440
Speaker 2: It was called Coca Cola two, and it's a drawing

259
00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,640
Speaker 2: of one of those great coke bottles. And this would

260
00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,760
Speaker 2: become a thing for him, like brands, especially food and beverages,

261
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,600
Speaker 2: which is very interesting, I think. But he did those

262
00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:00,800
Speaker 2: silk screens right away. In the very next year, in

263
00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,680
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty two is when those Campbell soup cans came out.

264
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:07,040
Speaker 2: A couple of the things he's most well known for

265
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,480
Speaker 2: were those celebrity silk screens and the Campbell soup cans.

266
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,960
Speaker 2: Thirty two portraits, And I love that Livia used those quotes,

267
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:19,360
Speaker 2: used portraits and quotes because what he did was he

268
00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:21,520
Speaker 2: would project. Is what I did when I was a kid.

269
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,000
Speaker 2: I had a little overhead projector, and I would project

270
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,240
Speaker 2: an image of Opus the penguin, or build a cat

271
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,840
Speaker 2: on a wall, and I would trace it. And I

272
00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:32,400
Speaker 2: would act like I could draw right when I couldn't.

273
00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:34,200
Speaker 2: I was just tracing something. And that's what he did

274
00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,880
Speaker 2: with those soup cans. He traced them from being projected

275
00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:37,360
Speaker 2: on a wall.

276
00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they were the first thirty two portraits were

277
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:45,880
Speaker 1: hand drawn. His first Campbell soup one portraits were and

278
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,880
Speaker 1: he actually didn't have the idea himself. He paid fifty

279
00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,680
Speaker 1: dollars to a designer named Muriel Latau at a party.

280
00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,680
Speaker 1: He paid by check for the idea. She said she

281
00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,880
Speaker 1: had a good idea and that was it, and he

282
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,320
Speaker 1: turned it into his whole career. And then there's one

283
00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,640
Speaker 1: other development too while he was doing the Campbell soup

284
00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:09,800
Speaker 1: cans that really kind of altered his career that instead

285
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:14,160
Speaker 1: of projecting onto a canvas and then hand drawing something

286
00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,280
Speaker 1: and then going back and painting it, he figured out

287
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,960
Speaker 1: that you could take you could project an image onto

288
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,640
Speaker 1: a silk screen that had amulsion on it that would

289
00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:26,360
Speaker 1: burn that image onto that silk screen, and all of

290
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,400
Speaker 1: a sudden, you had a stencil and you could put

291
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,720
Speaker 1: whatever color you wanted through it and make the same

292
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:32,920
Speaker 1: thing over and over and over again. And so his

293
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,040
Speaker 1: next series of soup cans were just Campbell's tomato soup,

294
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,160
Speaker 1: but in all sorts of different colors. And that kicked

295
00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:45,040
Speaker 1: off the Maryland, the Elvis, the Jackie I think A

296
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:49,560
Speaker 1: hundred Ways or something like that like that that changed

297
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,440
Speaker 1: his career because not only did it it causes sensation

298
00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:54,800
Speaker 1: like nobody had made art like that before, and it

299
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:59,120
Speaker 1: looked really cool, but also it allowed him to form

300
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,240
Speaker 1: the assembly line that he eventually became famous for.

301
00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean a lot of his art later on

302
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,400
Speaker 2: was done by these people that worked for him in

303
00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,000
Speaker 2: the factory, and it was you know, if you've ever

304
00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,200
Speaker 2: been to like a T shirt silkscreen place and there's

305
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,520
Speaker 2: people just like silkscreen t shirts, one after the other.

306
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,200
Speaker 2: Andy Warhol was doing that kind of thing and becoming

307
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,560
Speaker 2: very famous for it. It's very interesting how it all happened.

308
00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,160
Speaker 2: But there was a gallery in nineteen sixty two, the

309
00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:31,640
Speaker 2: Fairest Gallery in Los Angeles, where he had his first

310
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,360
Speaker 2: solo pop art exhibition of these soup cans. The gallery

311
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,840
Speaker 2: co owner was named Irving Bloom, and he displayed them

312
00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,680
Speaker 2: like they were shelves on or they were cans on

313
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,520
Speaker 2: a shelf, like at a supermarket. Very clever. Dennis Hopper

314
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,720
Speaker 2: very famously bought one of those first ones. But apparently

315
00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,040
Speaker 2: Warhol didn't even go. A lot of people didn't go.

316
00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:56,280
Speaker 2: Wasn't super big at first? A lot of people too, right, Yeah,

317
00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,960
Speaker 2: a lot of writers were making fun of it in

318
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,200
Speaker 2: the press. One quote was like, Frankly, the cream of

319
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,080
Speaker 2: asparagus does nothing for me, but the terrifying intensity of

320
00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,479
Speaker 2: the chicken noodle gives me a real zen feeling. So

321
00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:13,800
Speaker 2: he was being mocked until you know, he became Andy

322
00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:15,960
Speaker 2: warhowt and I'm sure he was mocked for a lot

323
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,720
Speaker 2: of his career by some of the same critics that

324
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:20,760
Speaker 2: had their nose turned up at stuff like this, for sure,

325
00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:22,720
Speaker 2: But it was the beginning of this movement in the

326
00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:24,920
Speaker 2: United States, and no one had ever seen anything.

327
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,680
Speaker 1: Like it, No, because nobody had done anything like it. Like,

328
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,680
Speaker 1: like you said, commercialism kind of slipped in here there,

329
00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,560
Speaker 1: but this was nothing but commercialism and a comment on

330
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,960
Speaker 1: commercialism and our relationship to brands and all that kind

331
00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:42,880
Speaker 1: of stuff, and that was definitely new. And from that

332
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:47,399
Speaker 1: the pop art esthetic like took off. You can basically

333
00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:49,679
Speaker 1: plant that at the feet of Andy Warhol in his

334
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,880
Speaker 1: first Campbell's Soup camp portraits, and then very quickly after

335
00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,560
Speaker 1: that later on the Tomato soup portraits with silk screening.

336
00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:01,080
Speaker 1: And today I think, I think what had up and wash?

337
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,439
Speaker 1: Did you say, Blum? Irving Blum? I said, bloom, but

338
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,920
Speaker 1: bloom he he, It may be bloom either way. He

339
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,879
Speaker 1: decided that those those portraits should not be sold off individually.

340
00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:14,840
Speaker 1: They didn't really make sense on their own. They made

341
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:18,040
Speaker 1: sense as a group because it was allegedly all thirty

342
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:22,639
Speaker 1: two flavors of Campbell's soup, and that you know, just

343
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,080
Speaker 1: having Scotch broth by itself is kind of cool, but

344
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,480
Speaker 1: not really, you need the whole thing. So he bought back,

345
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,960
Speaker 1: including Dennis Hoppers. He bought back all of those first

346
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,720
Speaker 1: thirty two portraits, and he paid Andy Warhol a thousand

347
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,640
Speaker 1: dollars about ten thousand.

348
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,679
Speaker 2: Dollars one today.

349
00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:46,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, one hand drawn or hand painted soup can is

350
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:50,160
Speaker 1: called a small torn soup can pepper pot. In two

351
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:52,440
Speaker 1: thousand and six, that one sold for eleven point eight

352
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,919
Speaker 1: million dollars. So Irving Blum got these things for a

353
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,840
Speaker 1: song because it hadn't taken off yet, but it did

354
00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:00,320
Speaker 1: very quickly after.

355
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:04,840
Speaker 2: Well that that small tour in campbell soup can that

356
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,639
Speaker 2: wasn't even one of the big paintings. That was paper

357
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:10,800
Speaker 2: dresses we talked about. Paper dresses were a thing at

358
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,840
Speaker 2: the time, literally dresses made out of these paper pieces,

359
00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,720
Speaker 2: and he was making these paper dresses with images silk

360
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,199
Speaker 2: screened on them, and Campbell's soup even started doing that

361
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,479
Speaker 2: later on. But just one of the pictures from one

362
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,000
Speaker 2: of the dresses sold for almost twelve million bucks.

363
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:33,600
Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's great, that's pretty cool. Yeah, I also

364
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:38,159
Speaker 1: saw too. I don't understand art unless somebody explains it

365
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:38,439
Speaker 1: to me.

366
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:39,200
Speaker 2: Same here.

367
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,600
Speaker 1: But I saw that the especially the silk screen tomato

368
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,000
Speaker 1: soup cans that is the same soup can, but in

369
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:48,600
Speaker 1: a bunch of different colors. That what he's doing is

370
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,280
Speaker 1: by taking this thing that you take as a given

371
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,639
Speaker 1: that's so familiar, it's a Campbell soup can. I recognize

372
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,600
Speaker 1: that everybody knows what that is, and by putting by

373
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,240
Speaker 1: playing with the colors and making different color combinations, he

374
00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:03,240
Speaker 1: was actually like basically melting the brand. The whole idea

375
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,280
Speaker 1: of the brand, the whole identity of the brain was

376
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,680
Speaker 1: just kind of being stripped away from the viewer's brain

377
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,160
Speaker 1: and turned into something else without the viewer even really

378
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,119
Speaker 1: realizing it, because the colors are so pretty that you

379
00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:19,320
Speaker 1: just kind of lost track that you're looking at a

380
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,000
Speaker 1: soup can, even though you start out knowing that you're

381
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:23,080
Speaker 1: looking at a soup can.

382
00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:23,560
Speaker 2: Oh.

383
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,720
Speaker 1: Interesting, Yeah, I thought that was pretty interesting too.

384
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, as far as pop art goes, you know, you

385
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,960
Speaker 2: mentioned a comment on consumerism. You know, it sort of

386
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:34,919
Speaker 2: depends on who you ask on what it means. That

387
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:39,719
Speaker 2: can be a comment on consumerism. It could be just

388
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,960
Speaker 2: you know, everyday things are like celebrating something that's every

389
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:48,040
Speaker 2: day in ordinary Andy Warhol himself said pop art is

390
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,359
Speaker 2: just about liking things, and that he ate Campbell's soup

391
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,000
Speaker 2: every day for lunch for twenty years. I don't know

392
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:55,680
Speaker 2: if that's true. That sounds like one of his little

393
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,240
Speaker 2: stories that he might tell. But for him it was

394
00:20:58,320 --> 00:20:59,959
Speaker 2: very simple. I don't think he tried to get too

395
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,360
Speaker 2: overly analytical about it. He was just like, it's pop art,

396
00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 2: and that's the whole point is you shouldn't examine it

397
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:07,560
Speaker 2: too closely.

398
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,520
Speaker 1: Well. One of the other things, though, is that he

399
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,560
Speaker 1: was very ambitious. He liked money, he liked fame, He

400
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,159
Speaker 1: wanted to be known as the greatest artist in the world.

401
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 1: And he was like he was a consumer himself, Like

402
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 1: he liked stuff. He liked spending money on things, like

403
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 1: that story about him walking around with loose diamonds in

404
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 1: his pocket. So it's weird. He was. He liked the

405
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:37,440
Speaker 1: very stuff that his paintings allegedly criticized or made fun

406
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 1: of or mocked or analyzed. He was into that same scene.

407
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,040
Speaker 1: He wasn't an outsider to it. He was as much

408
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 1: an American consumer as anybody else. And that was that

409
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,399
Speaker 1: was very odd for that time. You know, that was

410
00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:52,879
Speaker 1: the time where like you didn't want to be a

411
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,719
Speaker 1: sellout or anything like that. Andy Warhol was a sellout

412
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,440
Speaker 1: from the very beginning. He even put a fake ad

413
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 1: in The Village Voice saying like he to tach his

414
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 1: name to the following things if you would pay for it.

415
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 1: And it was a joke. But at the same time

416
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,680
Speaker 1: it wasn't a joke. As we'll see, he started making

417
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 1: what he called business art and started making a lot

418
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 1: of money from it, and as a result of his

419
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,920
Speaker 1: taking that up very quickly becoming like basically a sellout

420
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:25,639
Speaker 1: as soon as he could. The art critics basically say

421
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:31,360
Speaker 1: his period of actual good artwork just lasted from nineteen

422
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 1: sixty one with the Coca Cola bottles to the nineteen

423
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,919
Speaker 1: sixty four Flowers edition, so three years. Interesting even though

424
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,160
Speaker 1: his career kept going on that that was his last

425
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,400
Speaker 1: notable painting. Specifically, there's an art critic for the Washington

426
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 1: Post named Blake Gopnik who wrote a nine hundred page

427
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 1: biography on Andy Warhol and his art, and he I

428
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,120
Speaker 1: don't think it was just his opinion. I think that's

429
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 1: generally the art critic world's opinion that he was almost

430
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,200
Speaker 1: a flash in the pan as far as actually producing

431
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:02,360
Speaker 1: good art is concerned.

432
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:04,959
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean, because what he was was a

433
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 2: he kind of was the art. He created a brand

434
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 2: in a persona that was bigger than the art itself.

435
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 2: So it was I mean, you talk about separating art

436
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,439
Speaker 2: from artists, it was indistinguishable. In any Warhol's case, It

437
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 2: was all a part of who he was, this, which

438
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 2: was this. He was the Campbell soup, can you know?

439
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 1: Yeah? And I mean we take it for granted today

440
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: living decades into the postmodern era and now decades into

441
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 1: the era of influencers and Instagram, like that's a normal thought.

442
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 2: To us, right, Totally.

443
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 1: This guy was doing this when modernism still reigned and

444
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,640
Speaker 1: postmodernism was just starting to bleed out of it where

445
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 1: there weren't such things as influencers like he. I don't

446
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,239
Speaker 1: want to maybe he did. He might have invented it.

447
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 1: At the very least, he gave other people a lot

448
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 1: of other people the idea to try the same things.

449
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, we have to talk about his filmmaking because

450
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 2: he would branch out away from you know, screenprinting things.

451
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 2: Although he did that kind of throughout I think because

452
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 2: he had his factory going. But in the mid sixties

453
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 2: he started to make visual art. In sixty three, his

454
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 2: first film, Sleep I was about to say, came out,

455
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 2: but it kind of didn't really. I'm sure it played

456
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 2: in some avant garde theaters here and there, but his

457
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:30,439
Speaker 2: movies were they weren't movies. They didn't have plots and

458
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 2: characters in three act structure and stuff like that. He

459
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 2: would set a camera up in front of the Empire

460
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 2: State Building and shoot it for eight hours. Sleep was

461
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 2: five hours and twenty one minutes of his boyfriend John

462
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 2: Giorno sleeping. His most successful movie, if you want to

463
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 2: call it, that, was called The Chelsea Girls in sixty six.

464
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,640
Speaker 2: I Love Livia says it came at a relatively snappy

465
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 2: three hours.

466
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 1: Well, what's funny is it came in at three hours

467
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,679
Speaker 1: because it was a six hour movie. He's split in

468
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 1: half and projected side by side next to each other,

469
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 1: so technically it was six hours.

470
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 2: It was six hours. But this also didn't have a plot.

471
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 2: He was very explicit with his real sex in movies

472
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:16,400
Speaker 2: without it being well I'm sure a lot of people

473
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 2: labeled it pornography at the time, but it was art

474
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 2: also drug use too, Oh sure. He was very open

475
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 2: and explicit about all of this. At Like I mentioned

476
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,199
Speaker 2: the factory, he had three places called the Factory, and

477
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,160
Speaker 2: they were his art studios, they were his meeting places,

478
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 2: his party spaces, the first one being at East forty

479
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 2: seventh in nineteen sixty four.

480
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a silver factory an artist named Billy

481
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: name name is not his real last name. He just

482
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: adopted it. It's kind of like generic. I love that. Yeah.

483
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,919
Speaker 1: He covered it in an aluminum foil and silver paint,

484
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 1: which gave it the name silver Factory. But it was

485
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 1: also a former fat hat factory. A fat factory is

486
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 1: another way to it. And the other reason factory applies

487
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: is because remember Andy Warhol was the one who came

488
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: up with assembly line art. Yeah, he would have an idea,

489
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: or maybe somebody would give him an idea. He would

490
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: execute it initially, like maybe create the first stencil, make

491
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,399
Speaker 1: a couple versions of it with different color combinations, and

492
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 1: then after that he would basically leave it to his

493
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 1: assistants to start producing his art that he would sign

494
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: and it was his art. But that was a brand

495
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: new way of considering art, and so much so that

496
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: he had an assistant, a guy who basically became his

497
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 1: right hand His name was Gerard Malanga or Malanga as

498
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: we'll see. He would go to interviews with Andy Warhol,

499
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: and Warhol would be like, why don't you ask my

500
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: assistant Jerry here some questions. He did a lot of

501
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 1: my paintings, and I think most people at the time

502
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 1: thought he was kidding, and he wasn't kidding at all.

503
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,439
Speaker 1: Not just Jerry, but other people were physically making the

504
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: paintings that he was selling for tens of thousands of dollars.

505
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, to be clear, I know people are typing up

506
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 2: emails right now. This is not a new idea, and

507
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 2: this is not something that doesn't happen all the time

508
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 2: in the art world. There are In fact, we got

509
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 2: an email from someone recently who was called a ghost artist,

510
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 2: like a ghostwriter. They very famous artists, many, many times

511
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 2: have assistants that actually pump out these paintings in their

512
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,959
Speaker 2: style and sell them. Wow, it's always happened. I had

513
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,159
Speaker 2: a friend who twenty five years ago did it for

514
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 2: a guy here in Atlanta, and now she's her own

515
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 2: artist and has her own gallery, which is great, great,

516
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 2: but that's how an assistant a lot of times can

517
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 2: get their foot in the door is by working for

518
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 2: a very famous artist who has other people paint their art.

519
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 2: It's just it happens all the time, all right.

520
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,360
Speaker 1: Then, if he didn't invent it, he was the one

521
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,120
Speaker 1: who made no secret of it whatsoever. He exposed it

522
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: and actually used it to his benefit.

523
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 2: Well, and his had definitely more of a assembly line

524
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 2: feel than the others. It's not like other ghost artists

525
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 2: like I'll paint the trees and then you slide it

526
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 2: to the next person who paints the mountain. It's like

527
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 2: a single artist sort of recreating the pieces of art,

528
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 2: or a team of six assistants that are all working

529
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 2: on their individual thing. It's not like a factory kind

530
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 2: of thing that Andy Warhol did, so it was a

531
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 2: little different.

532
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: So initially his assistants were basically, this is gonna sound unkind.

533
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 1: They were very heavy drug users, if not addicted to drugs.

534
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: They were very frequently street kids. A lot of them

535
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: have been kicked out of their houses because they were

536
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: transgender or they were gay. They were societies cast off

537
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: in weirdos, and he collected them like they were precious

538
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 1: memory figurines and surrounded himself with them.

539
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that included well, he collected all kinds of people.

540
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 2: He collected them. The factory was a scene. Man. It

541
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 2: was like you could have some you know, seventeen year

542
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 2: old street kid who was a junkie sitting next to

543
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 2: a very famous, you know, actor like a Dennis Hopper

544
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 2: or a real musician. And of course, the Velvet Underground

545
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 2: was never that big in the United States. That's kind

546
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 2: of what they're famous for these days, is is America

547
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 2: not ever really accepting them. They were huge in Europe,

548
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 2: but the Velvet Underground was had a thing going to

549
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 2: New York. Andy Warhol was their first manager. He financed

550
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 2: that first great record and brought in Nico to sing

551
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 2: on it. He designed that great album cover with a banana,

552
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 2: and he was That was part of the scene. The

553
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 2: Velvet Underground was hanging out there at the factory. Dennis

554
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 2: Hoppers hanging out the factory. People are coming and going,

555
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 2: They're doing Heroin, They're having sex out in front of everyone,

556
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 2: shooting lots of speed. It was it was wild.

557
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: It was super wild, like they people would just walk

558
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: around naked like it was nuts. Totally unhinged, like there

559
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: were very few rules or regulations or anything like that.

560
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: I think it was just one of those things where

561
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: if you got in, you could manage to stay in.

562
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: You could do basically whatever you wanted. And I also

563
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: get the idea that people performed like it was performative too,

564
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: that it was also very competitive because one of the

565
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: things that he was known to do was to just

566
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 1: really latch onto somebody and find them very interesting, and

567
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: then he would get bored with them and just kind

568
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: of leave them behind in the dust. And I think

569
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 1: that was one of the reasons why he was called

570
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: I think it was fran Leewitz who said that who

571
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: called him a vampire. He would not just kind of

572
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: take energy from people, he would also take talent from people.

573
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: Apparently he had a talent for recognizing the peculiar talents

574
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: that each individual person has and then using them for himself.

575
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

576
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: So, for example, I think one of his assistants named

577
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: Bob Colicello. Andy Warhol had a terrible memory, but he

578
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: liked to record everything with his tape recorder so he

579
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: could remember. Not everybody wanted him to use his tape recorder,

580
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: and Bob Colicello he found out had a really great memory,

581
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: So Bob Colicello was his human tape recorder when somebody

582
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: wouldn't let him record their conversation. Just stuff like that,

583
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: just random stuff like that. And he assembled his life

584
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: the way he wanted it, using the people he surrounded

585
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: himself with and then just kind of interchanging them like

586
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: they were tutress parts when he saw fit.

587
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. There was an author and a performer named Bridget

588
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 2: Berlin who was around in the sixties and seventies at

589
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 2: the factory. Hopped up on speed, she would do all

590
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 2: kinds of work. She sometimes would run the factory line.

591
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 2: Sometimes she would get a hold of his diaries and

592
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 2: edit his diaries. Sometimes she would co write his books.

593
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 2: Edie Sedgwick very probably one of the biggest of his

594
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 2: what he called the superstars as far as you know

595
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 2: name recognition. She was a very pretty young woman, very troubled.

596
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 2: She was from a very prominent family. They met in

597
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty five when she was twenty one and he

598
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 2: was thirty six. She went out on to be in

599
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 2: ten of those movies of his, and they were inseparable.

600
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 2: At a certain point they would match outfits. She was

601
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 2: always on his arm. But when you talk to insiders,

602
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 2: they would say that, you know, he treated Edie very

603
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 2: badly at times, and at one point he said, do

604
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 2: you think Edie will let us film her when she

605
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 2: commits suicide? So it was that kind of thing that happened.

606
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 2: She very sadly died of a drug overdose when she

607
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 2: was twenty eight years old, so just seven years into

608
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 2: their relationship.

609
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. I've also seen it pointed out that there was

610
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: a habit of people around him dying young, and that's

611
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: not the case with everybody. Like Bridge of Berlin was

612
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: shown shooting up speed in Chelsea Girls, and I think

613
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: she lived at twenty twenty, so people could make it

614
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: out of his orbit alive, but other people like Edie

615
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 1: Sedgwick didn't. And some people blame Andy Warhol for encouraging

616
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 1: just that kind of behavior, people's self destructive behavior, either

617
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: for his own amusement or whatever he was getting out

618
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 1: of it.

619
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 2: I think that cult song Edie was about Edie Sedgwick,

620
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 2: Oh was it?

621
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: Yeah? She was supposedly the first it girl where whatever

622
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: she did started a nationwide trend among people who were

623
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,719
Speaker 1: into fashion or style or whatever, Like she couldn't whatever

624
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: she did. It was just that she had her own thing,

625
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: and everybody put her up on this pedestal. She was

626
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: a bright, brilliant star.

627
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, Candy Darling was another one of his cohorts for

628
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 2: a while. And if you look up Candy Darling, like,

629
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 2: I didn't even know a ton about Warhol, a little

630
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 2: bit here and there, but when I looked up Candy Darling,

631
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 2: I was like, Oh, I've seen this person in pictures

632
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 2: like my whole life. I feel like Candy Darling was

633
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 2: a transgender woman who got hormone therapy at a time

634
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 2: when that wasn't something that people did or was even

635
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 2: very easy to get done. And also Jackie Curtis was

636
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 2: friends with Candy Darling and they were kind of a

637
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 2: pair with Warhol. And Jackie Curtis was a playwright and

638
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 2: a poet and a singer and was back in the

639
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:16,879
Speaker 2: nineteen sixties playing with gender identity and using different pronouns

640
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:21,959
Speaker 2: and using terms like you know, fluidity and things like that.

641
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 2: This is at a time where like no one was

642
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 2: doing this kind of thing, and that's what Jackie Curtis

643
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 2: is doing.

644
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: Yes, another very famous superstar. I don't know if we

645
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: said or not, he would call them superstars, the people

646
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: who are around him and starred in his movies and stuff. Yeah, okay, good,

647
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: well done, Chuck. Another superstar is a guy named Robert

648
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: Olivio who was known as On Dene. Is that how

649
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: you'd say it.

650
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's on Dene or Undine, but

651
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 2: on Deane sounds more right.

652
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: I think so too. He met Andy Warhol at a

653
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: really chic party. No, I'm sorry. He met Andy Warhol

654
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 1: at an orgy in the early sixties, and on Dene

655
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: did not like Andy Warhol from the get go because

656
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: Andy Warhol was just standing there watching everybody, not participating basically,

657
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: and Undine didn't like that at all. So he had

658
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: his friend whose orgy it was, throw Andy Warhol out,

659
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: and they crossed paths again later and I guess hugged

660
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,760
Speaker 1: it out, and on Deane became one of his favorite people.

661
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, there's a If you look up Andy

662
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 2: Warhol superstars, there's a very very long list of people.

663
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 2: We obviously can't go over all of them, but we

664
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 2: should mention Joe Dellasandro. He was the one and more

665
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 2: one of the more famous, at least in that scene.

666
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 2: Once one of the actors in many of his films,

667
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 2: and uh, just a sort of a gay subculture sex

668
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 2: symbol icon for you know, a couple of decades and

669
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 2: I think is still around.

670
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: He was also he was also the model for the

671
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:53,959
Speaker 1: rolling Stone sticky fingers cover.

672
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 2: Oh is that dallas Andro?

673
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, that cover of is basically a man's crotch.

674
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 2: You she's crotch.

675
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 1: Pretty tight jeans too, They're very tight. Do you want

676
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,919
Speaker 1: to take a break and then come back and talk

677
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 1: about who shot Andy Warhol?

678
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 2: Yeah? It was Lily Taylor.

679
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: Right after this, so nice reference chuck to I shot

680
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:41,240
Speaker 1: Andy Warhol the movie which I think contains the Yola

681
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 1: Tango song. I shot Andy Warhol? Right, isn't that for

682
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:44,280
Speaker 1: that movie?

683
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 2: Probably? I don't remember. It's been a while.

684
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 1: That's a great song. It's gotta be Yeah, go listen

685
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 1: to that song. It's very good. So Valerie Salonis is

686
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: who Lily Taylor was playing in that movie. I shot

687
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: Andy Warhol and she was Again, if you have our book,

688
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: go read chapter eighteen. It goes no way book. No,

689
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,879
Speaker 1: it wasn't in the kids book. No, it goes way

690
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: into detail about Valerie Salanis and the shooting but in

691
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: the abbreviated version, she was a radical feminist, a playwright,

692
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 1: a man hater. And I say that quite confidently because

693
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: she was the founder and sole member of the Society

694
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 1: for Cutting Up Men Scum, author of the Scum Manifesto,

695
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 1: which is definitely worth reading. I think I've mentioned before

696
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 1: on the show, and she had a beef with Warhol.

697
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: She wrote a play called Up Your Ass and she

698
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: wanted Warhol to produce it, and not only would he

699
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: not produce it, he lost the manuscript that she gave him,

700
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: or the script that she gave him, and that really

701
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: enraged her. And apparently the Andy Warhol Foundation and Museum

702
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: in Pittsburgh has that script still. They keep it under

703
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: lock and key, but she never got it back, essentially.

704
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,760
Speaker 1: And then he also used some of her record words

705
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: without credit in one of his movies. So she did

706
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: not like Andy Warhol. She was kind of fixated on him,

707
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,839
Speaker 1: and on June third, nineteen sixty eight, she shot him.

708
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 2: Up Your Ass is so funny.

709
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,879
Speaker 1: Oh, and there's like so many like subtitles to it too,

710
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,240
Speaker 1: but you can just call it up your Ass.

711
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 2: I haven't seen that in a long long time. I

712
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 2: saw that movie back when it came out, and Lily

713
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 2: Taylor was so good. I just I love her and

714
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 2: she's amazing in that role. But yeah, on June third,

715
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty eight, she went to the apartment of another

716
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 2: sort of art scene lady named Margo Phiden and said

717
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 2: it was, you know, really pretty out of it. She

718
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 2: suffered from schizophrenia and so she was not having a

719
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 2: good day. She was still trying to get this play

720
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 2: made and was almost begging this woman, Margo, to do that.

721
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 2: And she said, you know that she couldn't do that,

722
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 2: and she said, oh, yes, you will, because I'm going

723
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 2: to shoot Andy Warhol. Showed off her gun and left,

724
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:06,200
Speaker 2: and apparently Piden tried to warn Warhol wasn't able to

725
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 2: get to him. This is when the factory was now

726
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 2: at Union Square, and she shot him and did not

727
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 2: immediately kill him. We'll hold on to that till the end.

728
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 2: But he was really messed up. He got a lot

729
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,280
Speaker 2: of had a lot of damage to his internal organs,

730
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 2: had many surgeries, a lot of scarring, and had to

731
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 2: wear a corset for the rest of his life because

732
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 2: of these injuries.

733
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:33,280
Speaker 1: A medical courses that held his guts in Essentially, Yeah,

734
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: I saw that he when he was recuperating in the hospital,

735
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 1: he said to somebody, you know, we got to get

736
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 1: some bigger things to hide behind.

737
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:43,800
Speaker 2: That great, very any Warhol.

738
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: So he did survive, but he was different after that,

739
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 1: and some people argue that he was already headed in

740
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 1: this direction. But basically he stopped hanging out with the

741
00:39:55,560 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 1: people living on the fringes of society, entered society like

742
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: high society. He took his rightful place there as like

743
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: a beloved art god among people who could pay millions

744
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: of dollars for paintings, got a really nice house, got

745
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: a Rolls Royce, and then the next factory that he

746
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:19,760
Speaker 1: set up was like a legit business, and he started

747
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 1: making what he called business art, where if you were

748
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: very wealthy, you could have him paint you in the

749
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,399
Speaker 1: style of Maryland or Elvis, that kind of silk screen thing,

750
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: and he would take your money and be totally fine

751
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: with it. And he became again such a sellout. There's

752
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: really no other way to put it. That even those

753
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 1: portraits started to become bad, like he didn't even pay

754
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 1: that much attention to him, even though that's what he

755
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 1: was doing. And he got such a bad name toward

756
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 1: the end of his career that when he was hanging

757
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:55,879
Speaker 1: out with Bosquiot. Bosquiot's career was kind of dragged down

758
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: for a little period of time because he was very

759
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 1: close to Andy Warhol. That's how bad a reputation Andy

760
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,280
Speaker 1: Warhol got. He became a parody of himself to people

761
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 1: in the art world toward the end of his life.

762
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a much different scene than I mean, he

763
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 2: kind of in a way got nineteen eighties, you know.

764
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,800
Speaker 2: I guess he sort of mirrored what happened in the

765
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 2: nineteen eighties with consumerism and just you know, MTV came along.

766
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 2: He did a couple of shows on MTV very cool,

767
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 2: one called Andy Warhol's TV and one called Andy Warhol's

768
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 2: Fifteen Minutes. Yeah. They weren't a bad actually, but it

769
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:38,399
Speaker 2: was a different thing for sure. He, like you said,

770
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 2: he sold out from the beginning. But I think everyone

771
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 2: in his circle like thought he really sold out in

772
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 2: the eighties, like and not in a good way that

773
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 2: he should be proud of, you know.

774
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:52,720
Speaker 1: I think it just took the rest of the world

775
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 1: like that long to catch on that he he had

776
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 1: always been a sellout and was totally fine with that

777
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 1: and didn't care. Maybe that's so this is his reputation

778
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 1: in the art world. His star was still quite bright

779
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 1: everywhere else, Like he would be on TV. He like

780
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 1: you said, he had two different MTV shows in the

781
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 1: mid eighties, Like he was hanging out with some of

782
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,840
Speaker 1: the great up and coming artists like bas Giacht or

783
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 1: Keith Herring. He was just he was very well known.

784
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: He got work as much as he needed, and his

785
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 1: last major work was pretty great. It was an interpretation

786
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,800
Speaker 1: of the Last Supper. Part of it is like a

787
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: sale sticker that says six ninety nine. It's one of

788
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: the more prominent things, and then another prominent thing. There's

789
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: Jesus is on there too, and next to it it

790
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:46,399
Speaker 1: says the Big Sea. I think Christ Christ the Big Sea.

791
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 2: It could be anything though, if you think about it, it.

792
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: Could be, but this is the Last Supper. So he

793
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: was again not really revered in the art world until

794
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 1: after his death, and it became very clear that this

795
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 1: guy was an artistic genior, not just in his art

796
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,800
Speaker 1: but in his life too, Like the Time Capsules is

797
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:04,839
Speaker 1: a good example of that.

798
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, he in seventy four he started a Time Capsules

799
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 2: project He filled up five hundred and sixty nine cardboard boxes,

800
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 2: a steamer trunk, twenty filing cabinets, and there you know letters, there,

801
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 2: brick of brec from his life. There's artwork, there's ticket stubs,

802
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 2: there's clothing all the way back from the nineteen fifties

803
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 2: for about close to thirty years worth of stuff in

804
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 2: these time capsules.

805
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:33,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw he would just sweep his desk clean

806
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 1: into a box like once every week or two and

807
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 1: like right TC on it for time capsule.

808
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 2: Well, when you're that famous, that becomes hugely valuable. If

809
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 2: I swept the stuff off of my desk, it's not

810
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 2: worth anything, so.

811
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 1: Right, So you've got the time capsules, which is a

812
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 1: really deep peek into his life. He also kept diaries,

813
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 1: and you've brought this to my attention. She was super

814
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: into Andy Warhol for a while, and she found out

815
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: that he had been audited Chuck every year ye by

816
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:09,280
Speaker 1: the irs from nineteen seventy two until his death in

817
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:10,360
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty seven.

818
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you Nixon.

819
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, he attributed it to Nixon revenge from Nixon, and

820
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:18,879
Speaker 1: that's actually probably a pretty good hypothesis because he had

821
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 1: created political artwork for George McGovern's nineteen seventy two campaign,

822
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 1: and it was like an ugly portrait of Nixon. Then

823
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 1: underneath it said vote McGovern. And it's entirely possible Nixon

824
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 1: ordered him to be audited and it just got kept up.

825
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 2: That's that's no coincidence. You don't get audited every year, sure,

826
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 2: so it's not how it works.

827
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:40,320
Speaker 1: So he would start noting everything, right.

828
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sure that he kept very good records from

829
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 2: that point on.

830
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 1: He did. He would dictate his diary by phone every morning,

831
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: and those became published later on as Andy Warhol's diaries.

832
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 1: So there's a lot known about that guy, and yet

833
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 1: he's still an enigma.

834
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, very much. When I said earlier that he did

835
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 2: not die right away from that gunshot, he would die

836
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 2: from complications from that gun shot many years later, in

837
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 2: February of nineteen eighty seven, he was fifty eight years old,

838
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 2: complications of having his gallbladder removed, and it was you know,

839
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 2: they can draw a direct line to that shooting and

840
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 2: his eventual death. He left a treasure trove, like you said,

841
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 2: of stuff. He donated everything basically to what is now

842
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:32,479
Speaker 2: the Andy Warhol Foundation for the Visual arts. It's worth

843
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:34,399
Speaker 2: a lot of money. They've given out close to three

844
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 2: hundred million bucks just in grants to more than a

845
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 2: thousand art organizations over the year, and I think they

846
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 2: are partnered with the Carnegie Institute and the Dia Art

847
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:50,360
Speaker 2: Foundation to build the Andy Warhol Museum in Pittsburgh, which

848
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 2: is where I last year saw Bonnie Prince Billy play.

849
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 2: One of my many shows that I've seen it his

850
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 2: he played the Indy Warhol Museum, because that's what he does.

851
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 2: He plays it weird places like that or not weird,

852
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 2: just different places. And it was great and it was

853
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 2: cool to walk around that museum a little bit beforehand.

854
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 2: They have more than they have a lot of his work.

855
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 2: They have more than four thousand videotapes, and they got

856
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 2: those time capsules there.

857
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, every single one of them, I think right. I

858
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 1: think so.

859
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 2: So.

860
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 1: In addition to predicting the fifteen minutes of fame for

861
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 1: the future, even if he didn't originally come up with it,

862
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 1: he also had another idea that I think kind of

863
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: came to fruition later on. He had an idea for

864
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 1: a chain of diners that he called Andy Matts, and

865
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 1: they were for people who eat alone and you just

866
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: sit at a table they serve you frozen food, and

867
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 1: then you watch TV by yourself, and that everyone has

868
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 1: their own TV set.

869
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 2: Oh interesting.

870
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 1: Basically just predicted smartphones and society today.

871
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 2: That's where we are now. Yeah, thought of that.

872
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 1: And then there's one other thing. If you are a

873
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 1: fan of cringe, you don't like cringe?

874
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,879
Speaker 2: Do you like cringe comedy?

875
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 1: Yeah? Or yeah? Basically her cringe performance art.

876
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 2: I like stuff like The Office. Okay, it can border

877
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 2: on like I don't want to watch this for sure.

878
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 1: Yeah. I can't take it very easily. And if you

879
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 1: watch his interviews, they're very cringey. He would purposely just

880
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 1: sit there and go er or whatever, and he wouldn't

881
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: like he didn't have anything to say or couldn't think

882
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: of what to say, like he would just be a

883
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: terrible interviewee.

884
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:28,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

885
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:34,360
Speaker 1: And then there's also Mike Douglas no MERV Griffin Show

886
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 1: segment with him and Edie Sedgwick, and he just refuses

887
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:40,359
Speaker 1: to talk the whole time, and it's up to Edie

888
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 1: Sedgwick to try to keep things going. It's she's like

889
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 1: twenty one years old. It's just really hard to watch.

890
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 1: I think I made it maybe a minute into it

891
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:52,400
Speaker 1: and I was like, I can't watch this anymore.

892
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 2: I could actually watch that stuff. Yeah, I'm going to

893
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 2: check that out.

894
00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 1: Okay, you're gonna lie.

895
00:47:58,120 --> 00:47:59,719
Speaker 2: I don't know how much I love it, but oh,

896
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 2: I don't know. Sometimes when someone is just I think

897
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:06,799
Speaker 2: that it's having no regard for And I'm not saying

898
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 2: it's like it's cool to go in there and like

899
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 2: wreck an interview, but like I also think, like I

900
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 2: don't know, if someone doesn't believe in that system and

901
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 2: they think it's all bs to make a statement like

902
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 2: that is like fine, as long as everyone's not doing it.

903
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:21,279
Speaker 2: No one wants to watch everybody do that.

904
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:25,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. It's weird though, because he was enthralled

905
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 1: by celebrity from a very young age, but he wouldn't

906
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 1: participate in it when he was a celebrity himself, even

907
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 1: though he wanted to be a celebrity.

908
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 2: A conundrum.

909
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I think that's it for Andy Warhol. Huh.

910
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, this could have been two or three ups, but

911
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:45,240
Speaker 2: I think it's a pretty good overview.

912
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:47,839
Speaker 1: I think so too. If you want to know more

913
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,319
Speaker 1: about Andy Warhol, there, like you said, is a lot

914
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 1: more to learn, and you can find stuff starting out

915
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 1: on the internet, and then go to Pittsburgh and see

916
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 1: his stuff in person, and then save up eleven million

917
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: dollars and buy one of his painting yourself. That's right.

918
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 1: And while you're saving that money up, it's time for

919
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 1: listener mail.

920
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:11,760
Speaker 2: I'm gonna call this shortened Shortish in Swedish. Hey, guys,

921
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,839
Speaker 2: Actually this is more than Swedish. This is great. Hey, guys.

922
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:19,280
Speaker 2: I'm an old retired concert pianist who remembers miny Hammond

923
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 2: organs for my youth. I didn't play them professionally, but

924
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 2: listening to this, Josh, you're gonna love this. I was

925
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 2: the pianist for the Pittsburgh Symphony, and I was so

926
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:31,359
Speaker 2: interested though in the history of the Hammond. I had

927
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,400
Speaker 2: no idea. I had actually never even thought about their origin,

928
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 2: although I played a few in funeral homes over the years.

929
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 2: I played big pipe Organs with stops, including for the

930
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 2: Pittsburgh Symphony, but I never mastered those slide bars on

931
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 2: the Hammond. It's interesting you did a whole podcast about

932
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 2: hamm and Organs, but I don't think we heard a

933
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 2: single musical note. There was a wonderful young lady, wrote Scott,

934
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:56,240
Speaker 2: who used to play at the Hurricane Lounge in Pittsburgh.

935
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 2: She's still living, also in her early eighties like me.

936
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:03,440
Speaker 2: Thanks for wonderful learning experience. And this, my friends, is

937
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:08,800
Speaker 2: from a legend. Patricia prattis Jennings and I did a

938
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 2: little wormholing with Patricia and it turns out Patricia is

939
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:17,360
Speaker 2: a legend. She played I believe she was the first

940
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 2: black woman to sign a major contract with the major

941
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 2: symphony in the United States.

942
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 1: Nice.

943
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 2: There's a great, great YouTube piece on her. I can't remember.

944
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,839
Speaker 2: It's a Pittsburgh local, Pittsburgh thing, but it's really good

945
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 2: that she's interviewed, and she's just wonderful and amazing talent.

946
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:37,320
Speaker 2: And it just knocks me out that in her eighties

947
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 2: she's like getting something out of our show.

948
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 1: That is pretty cool. And that's a lot of range too,

949
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 1: going from the symphony to a funeral. That's pretty cool.

950
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. But she played for the symphony, Pittsburgh Symphony

951
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 2: for decades.

952
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 1: Right, but she could also play a funeral too. I'm

953
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: sure there's quite different. The whole ViBe's got to be different, you.

954
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 2: Know, I would think so.

955
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 1: And also one more thing. I'll bet the Hurricane Lounge

956
00:50:58,440 --> 00:50:59,360
Speaker 1: was the place to be.

957
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 2: Sounds like it, doesn't it.

958
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:04,359
Speaker 1: Thanks a lot, Patricia, that is really cool. Thank you

959
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 1: for writing in, and, like Chuck said, thank you for

960
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 1: getting something out of our episode. And if you want

961
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:10,800
Speaker 1: to be like Patricia, you can get in touch with

962
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,840
Speaker 1: us via email too. Send it off to stuff podcast

963
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:19,560
Speaker 1: at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a

964
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:23,439
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit

965
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

966
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.