1 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: My name is Evil Longoria and I am my deraon 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 1: and Welcome to Hungry for History, a podcast that explores 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: our past and present through food. 4 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:15,159 Speaker 2: On every episode, we'll talk about the history of some 5 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 2: of our favorite dishes, ingredients, and beverages from our culture. 6 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:19,920 Speaker 3: So make yourself at home. 7 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: Even drinking my Big Red, my last one in the fridge, 8 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: I'm like freaking out. I'm like, wait a minute, it's 9 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 1: my weekend luxury is one. 10 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 3: Big Red because I don't drink them often. And then 11 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 3: I'm like, wait, how do I have one left? You 12 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 3: need to get on that. I need to get on it. 13 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 1: Well, I will tell you what I did make yesterday, and. 14 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 3: I'm so happy we're talking about it today. Is butter. 15 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I want to hear all about your 16 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 2: butter making process. 17 00:00:56,240 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: It's not a process, you know. I'm a progressive why 18 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: I have been making my own butter for years. Just 19 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: when I heard it's like one ingredient, I was like, 20 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: what I didn't know? It was just you know, heavy cream. 21 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: Although French butter is cultured, right, is that what you 22 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: say it? 23 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:17,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, French butter's cultured. 24 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna start doing that where I culture it 25 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: and then shake it because all you do. I got 26 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: a butter turn thing from Amazon. I was like the 27 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: worst thing ever. You just get a jar, like a 28 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: big old Mason jar. I pour a whole little carton 29 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:35,480 Speaker 1: like the little cartons of heavy cream, and you shake 30 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: it in that jar for about fifteen minutes. And I'll 31 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: watch a TV show, I'll be watching a documentary and 32 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: I just shake it and it turns into butter. And 33 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: if my nephews and nieces are here, I make them 34 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: take turns like you go five minutes and you hold 35 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: it five minutes. 36 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 3: And then because Thanksgiving, I make. 37 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: A lot of butter, and so I need like extra shakers, 38 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: but that's it. And then I put honey if I 39 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: want honey butter for biscuits, and I put Garlicok, if 40 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: I want garlic butter for a stack, I put salted 41 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: you know, obviously salted butter. But in France they culture 42 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: it and so cultured butter. You know, it just requires 43 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 1: high quality heavy cream and a live bacteria, so usually 44 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: yogurt butter milk, and that creates this like tangy rich butter. 45 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 1: And what you do is you mix the heavy cream 46 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: with yogurt or whatever you know, I use you. I'm 47 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,519 Speaker 1: gonna use yogurt, plain yogurt, and you leave it out 48 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: for forty eight hours. But like forty eight hours seems 49 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 1: to be the sweet spot. And those live active cultures 50 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: makes it better. 51 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 3: That sounds so good. 52 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 2: And how do when you shake it, is it room 53 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 2: temperature or is it chilled? 54 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 3: Well, if I. 55 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 2: Culture it, it'll be room temperature, okay, so you don't 56 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 2: refrigerate it. 57 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: Then once you shake it and it's like butter, you 58 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: rinse out the butter milk that comes off of it. 59 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: It's like really really milky water and you're left with 60 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: this butter and you really have to squeeze out all 61 00:02:57,880 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: that water. 62 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 3: And that's how it does and go rantsid. If you leave. 63 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,239 Speaker 1: Water in it, it can go rancid pretty fast. 64 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 3: I have a butterbell on my counter. 65 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: I don't put I don't put my butter in the 66 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: fridge saying steak for the counter. 67 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 2: I have a butterbell and I love that thing. It's 68 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 2: the coolest thing. It keeps it fresh and spreadable. Because 69 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,399 Speaker 2: the spreadable butters that we use are so processed here 70 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 2: in the US that it's like it's not good that 71 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 2: it's that spreadable. If it's cold and it's spreadable, there's 72 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 2: some it's not just butter. There's something else in there 73 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 2: for sure. 74 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,799 Speaker 1: Well, Valentine's is around the corner, and I just want 75 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: to say to you my day. 76 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 3: You're my butter. 77 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 2: Half, you're my buttery. 78 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 3: We are butter together, my friend. So speak of Valentine's Day. 79 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 2: My anniversary, my wedding anniversary is November seventeenth, which is 80 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 2: also National Butter Day. 81 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: Oh my god, is it always November seventeenth or does 82 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: it move Butter Day? 83 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:00,080 Speaker 2: It's always no November seventeenth. I just realized. I just 84 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 2: learned this, and I love that. It's like, now I 85 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 2: have two. 86 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 3: Things to celebrate, to celebrate. 87 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: I love all the butter idioms, like butter, you better 88 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: butter them up before you ask. 89 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 2: It's so funny butter fingers. When someone's clumsy who drops 90 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 2: things all the time. I'm a total butter fingers. I'm 91 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 2: quite quite a klutz, quite a glutz. So let's talk 92 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 2: about where butter began. 93 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: Okay, butter had to begin once we started, I guess 94 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: hurting animals because it had to come from milk. So 95 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 1: so it wasn't that long ago. How long ago was 96 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 1: it and who should we applaud for this amazing invention? 97 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 2: It was a bird long Yeah, it was a long 98 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 2: time ago, like ten thousand years ago, like in the 99 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 2: Fertile Crescent, right, So just like you said, yeah, early 100 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 2: herders they realized, Okay, milk isn't something that you just drink, right, 101 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 2: Milk could transform And they realized when they were trying 102 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 2: to keep this butter, you know, fresh, they were putting 103 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 2: it in animals skins and transporting it and this movement 104 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 2: right when you know your your animal skin is full 105 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 2: of milk and you're putting it on your animal, and 106 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 2: the movement, the shake, it naturally made the fat separate 107 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 2: from the cream right from the liquid, and it sort 108 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 2: of clumped together, so just the way that you make it. 109 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 3: So this is how they realized. 110 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 2: So butter wasn't really invented, it was discovered. 111 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 3: Well, the Fertile percent is also. 112 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: Like that that boomerang shape region in the Middle East, 113 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: which is like modern day Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, Palestine, 114 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: parts of Turkey, so like that that like basically the 115 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: cradle of civilization, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was a 116 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: birthplace of agriculture, right, everything everything, So of course butter 117 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: was discovered there as well. 118 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 2: Yes, exactly exactly, and it was really valuable. Like the 119 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 2: value of the butter was recognized right away because it 120 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 2: was riching calories, it lasted a lot longer than milk, 121 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 2: and this was of course before refrigeration. It was easy 122 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 2: to carry. So from the very beginning it's like, oh 123 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 2: my god. 124 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 3: Butter is valuable. 125 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 4: Wow. 126 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: And then when did butter, I guess over time take 127 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: on a I guess a deeper meaning like it did 128 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 1: it ever become sacred or like ritual in some places? 129 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, in India, especially ghe, which is this clarified butter. Right, 130 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 2: you separate the fats from the from the solids and 131 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 2: then so the gee it's the milk solids are then caramelized, 132 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 2: and so in India they start using things. 133 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 3: Like ghe in rituals. 134 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 2: And in northern Europe it signified prosperity and they used 135 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 2: to make ornate sculptures and just for nomadic cultures around 136 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 2: the world, it represented mobility and survival, and eventually it 137 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 2: became one of the defining flavors of global trade and 138 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 2: in tables around the world, right, because everybody's just butter. 139 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 2: I mean, you know some places like you know, like 140 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 2: Italy that you see more olive oil, right, but still 141 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 2: like butter is really central to tables around the world. 142 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: Doing searching for France when you're talking about olive oil. 143 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: I made the mistake. We were in Provence, in the 144 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: south of France, and I said, uh, he was cooking something, 145 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: and I go let me, yes, butter, because I associate 146 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: France with butter. And he was like, no, only the 147 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: north is butter, you know, north Paris and north of 148 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: Paris is butter. 149 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 3: The rest of France is olive oil. 150 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: And I was like Mediterranean, yeah, which is funny because 151 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: I was like, I always just think everything in France 152 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: is cooked in butter. 153 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 2: A lot, but maybe yeah, not everything, right, Yeah, but 154 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 2: there's even like so many myths and legends around butters, right, 155 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 2: And so like we said, it was this ritual substance 156 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 2: embedded in these you know, fertility and abundance and and 157 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 2: I love this idea of like in Hindu traditions they 158 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 2: use that ghi for you know, for for rituals. 159 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 3: And the god, Yes, Krishna. 160 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: I was in India and saw a lot of krishnas O. 161 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 3: I've never been to India, but I didn't. I didn't 162 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 3: find butter. 163 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: It was a big well ghee or yes, yeah, you're right, 164 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 1: you're right, you're right, yeah. 165 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the ge. It's the ge. What was it 166 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 3: used for? 167 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: GHI? 168 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 2: So they use it for cooking, but they also use 169 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 2: in rituals and Krishna, the god Krishna is described in 170 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,839 Speaker 2: devotional literature as stealing butter as a child. So it's 171 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 2: used in ceremonies, you know, as an offering. 172 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 3: So it's used a. 173 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,679 Speaker 2: Lot in Southeast Asia, and even in Tibetan Buddhist tradition, 174 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:49,319 Speaker 2: they use butter to create these ritual sculpture called tormas, 175 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 2: and they displayed these they would made them out of 176 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 2: butter and roasted barley and these are just they transformed 177 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 2: them into these sacred offerings as the symbol food for 178 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 2: for deities and spirits. And so it's sort of central. 179 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: I will say, if it's not French butter, the second 180 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: one that I that comes close other than my own 181 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: is Irish butter. I don't know why, Like does Ireland 182 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 1: do something different? They also kind of have this ritual 183 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: religious thing behind butter. 184 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 2: Too, right, Yeah, Ireland really has an interesting history. They 185 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 2: have like some really ancient butters have been discovered in Ireland, 186 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 2: something called bog butter, and it's like like two thousand 187 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 2: year old butters have been discovered. So they put them 188 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:42,079 Speaker 2: in these like animal skins or clay pots or something 189 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 2: and bury them in peat and so it's like this 190 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:50,079 Speaker 2: moss and it would kind of transform them into like 191 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 2: a sort of waxy substance, and it represents these stored 192 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 2: labor and wealth. And people sometimes used to hide it 193 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 2: because it was so valuable, like so that nobody else 194 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 2: would steal them, and also to preserve them underground. 195 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: So Latin America because we're not a big butter I 196 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: mean I think we are in Texas because we have 197 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: flower tortillas and like, let me tell you something, and 198 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: flower tortilla with French butter in the morning, there's nothing better. 199 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 3: My son does that all the time. He's like, you know, 200 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:27,079 Speaker 3: gett on a darbia but with French butter. That's so funny. 201 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,719 Speaker 2: Well there's that Texas better than the fan Furia's butter. Yeah, 202 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 2: good butter. There are ranches firm that's a good butter. 203 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 3: Fan Furia. But in Latin America. 204 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: It was only because of colonialism that that butter arrived. 205 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 3: It never really took off. 206 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 2: It didn't take off. We don't really see it in 207 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 2: native cosmologies like we do in other parts of the world. Yeah, 208 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 2: we see it in. 209 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 3: The in the Pandulce. 210 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 2: We did a whole Bandulte episode and we talked a 211 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 2: little bit about better there, but we don't really see 212 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:53,839 Speaker 2: it again. 213 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: A lot of the Banducee was influenced by the French bakeries. Yes, 214 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 1: papers in Mexico, so they brought their. 215 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 3: Butter with them. 216 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:06,839 Speaker 2: In Ireland and Scotland, early modern folklore records, there was 217 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 2: this belief that butter production could be harmed by witches 218 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 2: or fairies. 219 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 3: So if butter didn't churn, they would. 220 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 2: Use these productive practices that just you know, placing an 221 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 2: iron near churns or were signing prayers during churning just 222 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 2: to make sure that the butter was okay. 223 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 3: You knew you had a witch in your house. Yeah, 224 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 3: it was valuable. 225 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: You said it was pretty valuable, So it was obviously 226 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: traded that had value. 227 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 3: It was super valuable. 228 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 2: Like by the Middle Ages in Europe, butter was just 229 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:37,559 Speaker 2: this major commodity it was packed in barrels tax traded 230 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 2: across Ireland and Scandinavian, you know, Normandy. There were trading 231 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 2: ports in northern Europe that had entire markets devoted, you know, 232 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 2: just to butter. But even like before that in ancient India, 233 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 2: in Egypt, it was a symbol of wealth, right, and 234 00:11:54,800 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 2: these butters were export or imported from cooler regions and 235 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 2: it was prized for medicine and ritual use. 236 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 3: So they've been you know, butter is something. 237 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 2: That has been traded at scale for literally thousands of years. 238 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 3: So when did we start using it in baking? Because 239 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,199 Speaker 3: that was a good idea, Yes, that was a really 240 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 3: good idea. I us that's what I think of butter. 241 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 3: I think baking. 242 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 2: So we start seeing it in baking around the ninth 243 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 2: century or so in medieval Europe we start seeing it, 244 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 2: you know, butter. You know, monks and town bakers they 245 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 2: start incorporating butter into tarts and cakes and they would 246 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:42,719 Speaker 2: mix it often with like dried fruits or nuts or 247 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 2: you know, honey, and this butter added like not only flavor, 248 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 2: which we know butter is so Liverpool, but richness and 249 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 2: moisture that other animal fats like lard or other you know, 250 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 2: animal fats couldn't, and the butter allowed bakers to create 251 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 2: just lighter and flakyar pastries. And then the North and 252 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:08,199 Speaker 2: Northern Europe dairy really thrived, so they sort of let 253 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 2: the lead the way, and then French bakers refine these techniques. 254 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 2: So we start seeing associating French pastries with you know, 255 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 2: croissants and just beautiful tarts and just this just deliciousness. 256 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: Well, you know, I bake, I make my like today 257 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,119 Speaker 1: it's Sundays for me or like the food prep. 258 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 3: For the week. 259 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 1: I make my chodal beans which will turn into refrent beans. 260 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: I make my creamer, my coffee creamer, I make my butter, 261 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: and I make my bread, and the whole house every 262 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: Sunday just smells like butter. 263 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 3: Gosh. 264 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, so butter just transformed every day baked goods into 265 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 2: delicious treats. 266 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we covered some of this, we covered some 267 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: of this in our earlier in the season. But when 268 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: pastry shops first open, the oldest one being in Paris, 269 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: the pastry chef of Louis the fifteenth and you know, 270 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 1: when the monarchy fell, all of these amazing talented artisanal 271 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: people like needed to do something, so they ended up 272 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: opening shops. The chocolate tear opened a shop, the baker 273 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: opened a shop, the chef opened a restaurant because it 274 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: wasn't really a thing. 275 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 3: Before that in the monarchy. 276 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 2: Lots to do with butter, yeah, and also just just 277 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 2: really quickly, like the banavedias, they feed sort of everyday staples, 278 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 2: right that have my gets and you know rolls, just 279 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 2: staples that feed. 280 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 3: A community based. 281 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 2: Pastry shops are much more indulgent things with butter, like 282 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 2: croissants and night claires and like things that are butter 283 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 2: full and beautiful as well. It's like when you look 284 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 2: at a little fruit tart, it's it's a work of art. 285 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So who really like who brought I guess 286 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: who elevated baking to high art? 287 00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 3: Because when you go to France, like one. 288 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: Of these concoctions at one of the highest you know, 289 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: patisseries or pastry shops can run like forty dollars. I mean, 290 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 1: like for this one little gorgeous little thing. I remember 291 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: I paid eighty five dollars for this like Mango creation. Like, 292 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: who who said I'm gonna elevate baking to high art? 293 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, this guy. His name is Marie Antoine Karem. 294 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 2: He's also known as Antonym Karem. And he is such 295 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 2: an interesting character, right, he was like a true rags 296 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 2: to riches story. He was born in seventeen eighty three. 297 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 2: He was born in the slums of Paris. They believed 298 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:39,440 Speaker 2: that he was one of twenty three children. And in 299 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 2: when he was nine years old during the French Revolution, 300 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 2: and he was taken in by the owner of a 301 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 2: chop house, right, a top house near the gaillotine. 302 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 3: What's it like a meat? Like a steak like they 303 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 3: would they would butchery, but like a butchery, yes, okay. 304 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 2: And he he washed dishes right in exchange for a 305 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 2: roof over his head. And when he turned sixteen, he 306 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 2: was apprenticing at a patisserie. Right, so he was apprenticing 307 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 2: his super bright. His boss encouraged him to get an education. 308 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 2: He taught himself to read and write, and he would 309 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 2: go to the library and he would study architecture and 310 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 2: classical you know, arches like Greek architecture and Roman architecture 311 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 2: and columns, and he started recreating this architectural forms with 312 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 2: sugar and pastry. 313 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 3: Wow, which of. 314 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 2: Course, butter is what helps you know, keep these things, 315 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 2: you know, give things their shape and their texture and 316 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 2: their wow, their their their shininess and everything. And so 317 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 2: he started staging thees in window displays and eventually he 318 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 2: opened up his own pastry shop. He was reviewed by 319 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 2: Grimaud de la Arronier. We talked about him in our 320 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 2: Food Critics episode. He called his pastries exquisite in crisp 321 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 2: to perfection. 322 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: And he didn't just open anyway. He opened near Plus Bondome, 323 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 1: which is like to the spot today. It's where the 324 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: it's carl it is. It's like it's one of the 325 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: most famous plazas and so it's so it's it's so 326 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: interesting that in the seventeen hundreds, you know, this was 327 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 1: where his shop was. 328 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 2: Wow, even then it was the place he was so 329 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:19,399 Speaker 2: you know, his art. He elevated, you know, food to 330 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 2: this fine art. And he's the one that really transformed us. 331 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 2: He even made Napoleon's wedding cake. Like he invented the 332 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 2: pastry bag. He illustrated his own cookbooks. He claimed to 333 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 2: have invented the shoe pastry and volevants and perfect souit 334 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 2: fls like you know, he he and he was also 335 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 2: the first chef to gain wealth and fame through publishing 336 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 2: and through his through his creations. And so yeah, we 337 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 2: can the eighty dollars pastry that you got, you could, 338 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 2: you could, You could thank Karrem for that. 339 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 3: I will bank Koram for that price as well. 340 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, pastry is only good as it's butter, not only 341 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: it's ingredients. 342 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:07,199 Speaker 3: But like, really the real star is butter. It is. 343 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 2: It is my favorite bakery in la Is Petti Grand 344 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 2: bu Lingerie in Santa Monica, owned by a really good 345 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 2: friend of mine. 346 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 3: Her stuff is unbelievable. 347 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 2: Last week I had to sit down with my friend 348 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:26,439 Speaker 2: Clemonsta Loots from the Santa Monica bakery pettigran Bulanerie. We 349 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 2: talked about the current political climate, her presence in the community, 350 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 2: and she taps into bread's long history of labor care 351 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 2: and quiet revolution. 352 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:36,399 Speaker 3: Today I'm talking to her about butter. 353 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,919 Speaker 2: So why is butter such a foundational ingredient in baking, 354 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 2: especially compared to oils or margarine. 355 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 4: So the reason that I prefer butter over margarine is 356 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 4: because butter contains lactose, which contains sugar, which creates drowning, 357 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 4: which creates the Mayas reaction, which gives you a depth 358 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 4: of flavor and color that you cannot get from a 359 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 4: hydrogenated fat. So margarine and shortening are hydrogenated, which means 360 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 4: that there are oils with oil does not contain any water. 361 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 4: Oils that are hydrogenated partially or fully and go from 362 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 4: liquid to solid. But oils lack the ability to really 363 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,360 Speaker 4: brown in the same way that butter does and has 364 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 4: a very different mouth feel because they don't contain water. 365 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 4: So what butter does is because butter is made of 366 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,679 Speaker 4: eighty to eighty four to sometimes eighty six percent fat 367 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 4: and the remaining part being water and milk solids. When 368 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 4: it reaches your tongue, butter can melt at a certain 369 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 4: temperature and with a certain mouthfeel that you cannot recreate 370 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 4: with solid fats. So when you're consuming a product that 371 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 4: has margarine or shortening, it can't really melt. It just 372 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 4: kind of coats your mouth rather than sort of having 373 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 4: those properties that butter has. 374 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 2: Oh interesting, that makes perfect sense. I never really understood 375 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 2: the why that makes. 376 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,199 Speaker 4: Perfect If you have like a shortening butter cream, it 377 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 4: just kind of sticks to the roof of your mouth 378 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 4: a little bit and the sugar crystallizes a lot because 379 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 4: it can't dissolve as well. 380 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 2: Your croissants are the best croissants ever, the most amazing. 381 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 2: So can you walk us through the steps of the 382 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 2: lamination and how laminated dough turns butter into these edible amazingly. 383 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, oh, I love talking about this because making 384 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:34,959 Speaker 4: clos is actually not that difficult. 385 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 3: It starts for us. 386 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,400 Speaker 4: It's a three day process that starts with a sponge 387 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 4: with like whole grain flowers, yeast and flour and water. 388 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 4: And then the next day we mix our dough with 389 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 4: more whole grains, bread, flour, water, yeast. We use organic 390 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 4: dark brown sugar and that preferment, and then we lay 391 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 4: it out in a pan. We do this thirty two 392 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,199 Speaker 4: times on most days, and then we put in a 393 00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 4: kilo block of butter. And the butter that we use 394 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,880 Speaker 4: is eighty two percent fat, and it's super important because 395 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 4: some butters that are lower in fat, like your regular 396 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 4: typical grocery store butter, has too much water content. And 397 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 4: then when you go to laminate, which is the process 398 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 4: of putting the butter on top of the dough, folding it, 399 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 4: rolling it out, folding it, rolling it out, folding it, 400 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 4: rolling it out. If it has too much water content, 401 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 4: it will melt too quickly and so then the butter 402 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 4: will seep into the dough and not give you those 403 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 4: sustainct layers that are needed to make a really beautiful 404 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 4: clissant that has a clear lamination. So we use a 405 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 4: butter that's eighty two percent. We have tried using a 406 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 4: butter that's a higher fat, because some of the butters 407 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 4: we love because of how they're produced, are delicious, but 408 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 4: too high a fat makes a butter that's too brittle 409 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 4: and we'll crack and will break those layers. So we're 410 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 4: in the process of looking for a different kind of 411 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 4: butter because we love the butter we use. 412 00:21:58,000 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 3: It's ec needs. 413 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 4: From France, but unfortunately it's now fifty two percent owned 414 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:07,959 Speaker 4: by a big Chinese conglomerate rather than being entirely farmer owned. 415 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,160 Speaker 4: So you know, it's one of those decisions that we're 416 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 4: playing with, and we'd love to start our own butterer company, 417 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 4: but more on that later, and gosh, yeah, it's a 418 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 4: very long term project. But the butter, most importantly is cultured. 419 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 4: So when you're at the grocery store and you see 420 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 4: sweet cream. It doesn't mean that this sugar added to it. 421 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 4: It doesn't mean that the cow was nicer. It means 422 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 4: that it's not cultured. So typically in Europe, butter is 423 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 4: cultured from cream, is churned from cream that has been cultured. 424 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 4: So the same kind of processes making yogurt, whereabout whereby 425 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 4: you add cultures to the cream or the milk. In 426 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 4: this case it's cream because it's butter, and then it's 427 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 4: churned into butter and that adds a really really good 428 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 4: like depth of flavor and tendiness, and it extends the 429 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 4: shelf life of the butter as well because of its acidity. 430 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 3: Guess what A lot of people don't know this. Croissants 431 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 3: roots aren't French. Yeah, I did not know this. 432 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,959 Speaker 1: It's so many times in Paris I'm passing by a 433 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: bakery and it'll say a Vienna luise in Paris, which 434 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: it's basically a lingerie from. 435 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:33,439 Speaker 3: Vienna. 436 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: Because the original person that really introduced this Viennese baking 437 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: was in Paris was Austrian and so I think his 438 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: name was August Zang, right, August Sang. He popularized the 439 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: pastry which was it and it was a crescent. It 440 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: was a crescent shaped pastry made with a lot of 441 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: butter or lard, but his was sometimes sweetened with almonds 442 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: and sugar. And so that's the legend, is that the 443 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: kip fule was invented in in Sienna after the siege 444 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 1: of Vienna and a baker up early to start breaking 445 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: he heard the Ottomans tunneling under the city and sounded 446 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: the alarm. So to celebrate the victory, baker's shaped the 447 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 1: pastry like the crescent. 448 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 3: Moon on the Ottoman flag. I don't know if it's true, 449 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 3: but it is a good story. It's a really good story. Yeah. 450 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 1: So then but then this well, this food history in 451 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: Jim Chevalier says, the croissant was born the moment that 452 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: kip fell. The kip fell made its way to France, 453 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 1: and then it met puff pastry and now and then 454 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: it transformed into something new. So technically, like the shape 455 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: and the butter, and like the fact that it was 456 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: a pastry was Austrian. But this Austrian businessman August saying, 457 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,919 Speaker 1: he opened uh Viennese bakery in Paris, and he was 458 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,360 Speaker 1: like this marketing genius and he did the window displays 459 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 1: and the newspaper Rads. He patented the steam oven that 460 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: gave pastries that that golden shin. That's why when I 461 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: make my my bag, adds, I put, Uh, what is 462 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: it a. 463 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 3: Pan of water? Trade water that just steams inside. 464 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: And that gives you the crispy outside on your when 465 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 1: your back at So Parisians went wild for these kit fells, 466 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 1: and then bakeries all over we're imitating them. 467 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 3: Uh. 468 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: And then the croissant became a Parisian breakfast staple. 469 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 3: Even Charles Dickens raved about them on a visit to Paris. 470 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 2: God, I love a good croissant. It's one of my 471 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 2: favorite things. 472 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: Well, and you know what I want to know, how 473 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:46,680 Speaker 1: did industrialization or the you know, the indust the Industrial 474 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: Revolution change butter production. 475 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 3: It changed everything where the Industrial Revolution changed everything. 476 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:57,719 Speaker 2: So, before industrialization, butter was very hands on, very small scale. 477 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 2: You know, farmers or households would turn there our own 478 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:01,880 Speaker 2: creamy they you know. 479 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,120 Speaker 1: They would have the thing you would see the butter 480 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: maids exactly. 481 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, some butter maids exactly, just making enough for their 482 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,679 Speaker 2: family or to sell at a local market. And the 483 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 2: flavor was always different depending on the season, depending on 484 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 2: what the. 485 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 3: Cows and they say. 486 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: The reason why French butter tastes so amazing, and not 487 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 1: only French butter, it's from Brittany and Normandy, like it's 488 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: from the north of France, is because it's that grass 489 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: that the cows eat in the north. So you could 490 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: have the same cow eat something else in the south 491 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 1: and it's not as good as the butter in the 492 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,080 Speaker 1: north of France. So it does that makes sense that 493 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,439 Speaker 1: the flavor buried with the season, with the cow, with 494 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: the grass. 495 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:43,640 Speaker 3: It greed. 496 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,959 Speaker 1: I mean, you taste, you taste it, the grass, you 497 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: taste the landscape. You should be able to taste the lands. 498 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: You should be We don't in the United States, but like, yeah, 499 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,879 Speaker 1: in France you can taste. You're like, hmm, this smells 500 00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: like tastes like rain. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, totally for sure. 501 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: It So then they made these mechanical churns so that 502 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: the separation could be faster and more efficient, and then 503 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: they could make butter and these massive quantities. 504 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 3: But then why did they start refrigerating it? 505 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 2: Well, because it was just it was it was I 506 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,679 Speaker 2: wondered they started easy to transport it, Yeah, it just 507 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 2: lasts longer, you know, to transfert it, and when when 508 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,199 Speaker 2: they started doing all of these separators and turns and 509 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 2: all this butter was standardized package sold nationally internationally. So 510 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 2: it also like it brought consistency, and you know, a 511 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 2: lot of these small dairy farmers they just really couldn't 512 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 2: compete with the sort of pane. 513 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: Those traditional methods were abandoned, and then these regional flavors 514 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: and textures were like lost because now it just became 515 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 1: so mechanized. 516 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 3: So wait, is this where the story of margarine begins. 517 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 2: Nineteenth century for sure, So in the eighteen Sea Sties 518 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 2: and berer Napoleon the third he was looking for cheap, 519 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 2: shelf stable butter to substitute, you know, to feed his army, 520 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 2: to be able to feed the working class because butter 521 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 2: was expensive and butter spoiled really quickly. So a chemist 522 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 2: named Hippolyte meg Murier invented oleomargarine. So evented this margarine 523 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 2: from beef fat, milk and some multifiers, and it worked 524 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 2: and its popularity spread. And then after the First World War, 525 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 2: when animal fats were scarce, marjorie evolved from beef fats 526 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 2: to vegetable oils, and then by the twentieth century, dairy 527 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 2: farmers were fighting against margarine, and in the US there 528 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 2: were laws required that margarine be sold without butter because 529 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 2: it was hurting the dairy industry. So when you bought 530 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 2: a pack of margarine, it came with a little packet 531 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 2: of yellow dye. You would mix in the yellow diet home. 532 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 2: What yeah, isn't that crazy? And Wisconsin was the last 533 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 2: state to lift this colored margarine band in nineteen sixty seven, 534 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 2: so it's not that long ago. And then after the 535 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 2: Second World War, butter, I'm sorry, margarine was marketed as 536 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 2: sort of modern and healthy, and in the US, butter 537 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 2: was marketed as old fashioned, like margarin was the future. 538 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 3: Margarine was process progress. Butter processed. It was, yes, it 539 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 3: was sold. 540 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 2: It was a highly processed but by the late you know, 541 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 2: twentieth century, these sort of transfats and hydrogenated margins were 542 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 2: lickd to heart disease. And then butter was back. Right, 543 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 2: Butter is natural. But we're seeing it today too, with 544 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 2: olive oil spreads and plant based butter and not based butter. 545 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 2: And you know, but I don't know, there's nothing like 546 00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 2: the really good stuff. 547 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 3: Now, there's no substitute for good butter. There's not. 548 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 1: I encourage everybody make your own butter. I'll actually link 549 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: my recipe here even though it's not and it's it's 550 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 1: you know, shake some heavy cream. That's it, shakes for 551 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: a long time and your I add flu de sail 552 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: because I like that taste more than sea salt in 553 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: my butter. I don't like sea Salt's a little too salty. 554 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: I like honey. Like I said, I like garlic butter. 555 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: You can add parsley. It's just it's so fun because 556 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 1: then you start just making all kinds of butter. 557 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 2: How long does it last when you have it out? 558 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,239 Speaker 2: When you make the butters, well, we go through it 559 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 2: so fast, so I don't know. It's never made it 560 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 2: to the it's never made. 561 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: It's always empty, and I'm always having to make new butter, 562 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: so I don't know how long it lasts. On the Conca, 563 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 1: which is another Mexican pastry, does have French roots. 564 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 3: So if you want to hear all about that, go 565 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 3: back to season one. Listen to the Bandul's episode. It 566 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 3: is so good. 567 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: Thank you guys for listening, and thank you to my 568 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: butter half minday. 569 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 2: Thank you all for listening, and yes, thank you to 570 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 2: My Butter Half, My Taste, Butter, My Taste, Butter Date 571 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 2: by Off Bye. 572 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: Hungry for History is a hyphen media production in partnership 573 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: with Iheart's Michael Burda podcast network. 574 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 2: For more of your favorite shows, visit the iHeartRadio app, 575 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.