WEBVTT - Ethan Hawke | Archive 0:00:03.850 --> 0:00:05.809 What kind of a show are you guys putting on 0:00:05.850 --> 0:00:06.350 here today? 0:00:06.470 --> 0:00:07.590 You're not interested in art? 0:00:07.670 --> 0:00:09.490 No. Well, look, we're going to do this thing. We're 0:00:09.539 --> 0:00:10.619 going to have a conversation. 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:17.700 Hey, film spotters. Archive drop time, and we're thinking about 0:00:17.860 --> 0:00:20.460 the new Ethan Hawke and Russell Crowe movie coming out, 0:00:20.739 --> 0:00:23.910 The Wait. We also know that The Next Picture Show 0:00:24.110 --> 0:00:28.450 is covering this film, and we thought, why not go 0:00:28.490 --> 0:00:33.809 back to the interview, Josh, that I usually answer when 0:00:33.850 --> 0:00:38.840 people ask me, what's your favorite interview that you've ever done? 0:00:40.340 --> 0:00:42.800 I am a little bit hesitant to say it's my 0:00:42.860 --> 0:00:45.199 favorite though, because I then have to follow that up 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:48.740 by saying, I didn't really have to do much. It's 0:00:48.820 --> 0:00:52.220 not necessarily an interview where I can point to my 0:00:52.300 --> 0:00:56.800 incredible skills as an interviewer and all the amazing preparation. 0:00:57.000 --> 0:01:01.580 I did all my great questions. Ethan Hawke is just 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:06.220 truly one of our most insightful artists and one of 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:09.500 the great talkers of our time. And you can pretty 0:01:09.540 --> 0:01:13.360 much let him go no matter what you throw at him. 0:01:13.770 --> 0:01:15.970 Yeah, it seems like he's developed that. I wouldn't say 0:01:16.010 --> 0:01:19.529 it's his second career because he's still very active acting, 0:01:19.650 --> 0:01:22.370 but yeah, he's developed that reputation, right? As someone who 0:01:22.410 --> 0:01:24.750 you just bring in, give him a mic, ask him 0:01:24.770 --> 0:01:28.570 a few good questions about art, and he'll return with 0:01:28.650 --> 0:01:29.810 some really thoughtful stuff. 0:01:30.390 --> 0:01:33.850 Yeah, a lot of wisdom here. This is from 2018 0:01:33.850 --> 0:01:38.130 when he was doing press for his Blaze Foley biopic, Blaze, 0:01:38.150 --> 0:01:41.429 a movie that he directed. On that same show, we 0:01:41.450 --> 0:01:44.530 did our top five Ethan Hawke moments with Keith Phipps 0:01:44.590 --> 0:01:45.810 from The Next Picture Show. 0:01:46.530 --> 0:01:56.220 Enjoy. I don't know who Blaze Foley is. It's actually, 0:01:56.320 --> 0:02:00.580 it's Blaze Foley. You really should know who Blaze was. 0:02:01.380 --> 0:02:03.900 I'm going to open with kind of a long-winded one, 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:05.020 so bear with me here a little bit. I like 0:02:05.060 --> 0:02:08.380 it already. Watching your movie, I am immediately thinking about 0:02:08.780 --> 0:02:11.810 the biopic as a genre, conventional ones anyway, which I 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:14.310 would say your film is certainly not a conventional one. 0:02:14.870 --> 0:02:18.650 And often they're concerned, to me, they seem concerned with psychology, 0:02:18.830 --> 0:02:23.010 trying to explain behavior of these characters rather than maybe 0:02:23.110 --> 0:02:26.260 trying to just observe behavior. But the other one that 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:28.940 really hit me watching Blaze... and it's something I never 0:02:28.980 --> 0:02:32.060 really considered before, is that biopics on some level are 0:02:32.100 --> 0:02:36.060 excuses to enact or reenact these kind of signpost moments 0:02:36.100 --> 0:02:39.270 from characters' lives that we as viewers have some attachment to. 0:02:39.310 --> 0:02:41.870 They're kind of part of the cultural consciousness, so we 0:02:41.930 --> 0:02:44.910 care about what's happening. And maybe we only care about 0:02:44.930 --> 0:02:48.549 what's happening because we have that attachment to it. Biopics 0:02:48.590 --> 0:02:50.940 then can be a little bit lazy. But when you're 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:53.480 making a movie like you did where the subject is 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:56.730 someone who's not part of that collective consciousness... We have 0:02:56.750 --> 0:02:58.530 to be invested the same way we would be with 0:02:59.070 --> 0:03:03.290 a fictional character. So my question is, how deliberately did 0:03:03.330 --> 0:03:05.489 you consider those things? How deliberately did you set out 0:03:05.630 --> 0:03:07.800 to not make a conventional biopic? 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:11.779 Well, I think in the DNA, as soon as you 0:03:11.900 --> 0:03:14.740 say you want to make a biopic about Blaze Foley, 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:20.970 you're shifting the paradigm a little bit because almost every 0:03:21.030 --> 0:03:26.990 musical biopic that's ever been made is... about somebody who's famous. Yeah. 0:03:27.090 --> 0:03:31.209 Who made it. And the subconscious, the subtext of that 0:03:31.750 --> 0:03:34.090 is that your story is worth telling because you're famous. 0:03:34.890 --> 0:03:37.750 And when I was working on this Chet Baker biopic, 0:03:38.450 --> 0:03:42.390 I was interviewing guys who played with Chet and really 0:03:42.430 --> 0:03:45.560 realizing they would say that, you know, to really know Chet, 0:03:45.570 --> 0:03:47.120 you really had to play music with him. I mean, 0:03:47.140 --> 0:03:52.090 that was where his best self was manifest. And a 0:03:52.150 --> 0:03:54.510 couple of things happened to me, which was that, wow, 0:03:55.530 --> 0:03:56.990 first of all, I want to make a movie about 0:03:57.070 --> 0:04:00.390 these guys, the guys who played with Chet rather than 0:04:00.510 --> 0:04:03.490 Chet himself. Cause the story of celebrity and drug addiction 0:04:03.530 --> 0:04:07.530 and you know, the ups and downs of fame, it's 0:04:07.550 --> 0:04:10.870 just a well-worn road. And I was like, wouldn't it 0:04:10.890 --> 0:04:13.550 be awesome to see a biopic where the scene where they, 0:04:13.570 --> 0:04:16.230 you know, we all know the narrative, right? He struggles, 0:04:16.300 --> 0:04:20.859 something bad happens. These draws a great, well of creativity 0:04:20.940 --> 0:04:24.729 from this pain. He gets discovered. He rises to the top. 0:04:24.850 --> 0:04:27.809 Now he loses what's important to him. He falls from grace, 0:04:27.890 --> 0:04:31.770 finds self, and movie, right? And that's a really boring narrative. 0:04:31.930 --> 0:04:34.370 And it flies in the face of, I've spent my 0:04:34.430 --> 0:04:37.210 life with artists, musicians, and most of them are met 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:40.739 with just complete and utter indifference. That's not the story 0:04:40.779 --> 0:04:42.960 of their life at all. Their story is that of 0:04:43.060 --> 0:04:47.530 practicing constantly and trying really hard, having some minor little 0:04:47.650 --> 0:04:52.390 ups and basically, you know, being ignored. That's most people's 0:04:52.450 --> 0:04:56.260 experience in the arts. And I just thought Blaise Foley, 0:04:56.339 --> 0:04:59.400 somehow I was like, wow, he's the perfect, you know, 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:04.779 vehicle to tell a more true biopic. Because like you said, 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:07.800 I find them often extremely lazy because they have a 0:05:07.820 --> 0:05:11.060 great central performance because there's this very interesting human being 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:13.000 at the center of which we already know a lot about. 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:14.930 So a lot of the work of the actor has 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:17.410 already been done. All they have to do is imitate 0:05:17.470 --> 0:05:19.750 this other person. They don't have to do any discovery. 0:05:20.410 --> 0:05:23.490 And part of what I wanted from Ben Dickey was 0:05:23.630 --> 0:05:27.970 I cast a real musician, a guy who has cried 0:05:28.070 --> 0:05:31.710 real salty tears over the way his dreams have been 0:05:31.770 --> 0:05:34.970 treated by the music industry. And he has something to 0:05:35.110 --> 0:05:38.710 say about that. He's not going to watch some reheated meal. 0:05:39.120 --> 0:05:42.320 He has something to offer you about his love of music. 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:46.890 his love of blaze and he's lived this, this life. 0:05:47.610 --> 0:05:50.430 And I didn't want him to impersonate blaze. And the 0:05:50.450 --> 0:05:53.170 great thing about when blaze isn't famous, nobody would know anyway, 0:05:53.270 --> 0:05:57.330 even if you did, you, you have to make, I 0:05:57.370 --> 0:06:00.540 want you to put your blood into the movie. Use 0:06:01.140 --> 0:06:05.039 blaze's music. Blaze gave us his music. That's where he lives. 0:06:05.140 --> 0:06:07.220 That's where the, we will be true to the man 0:06:07.260 --> 0:06:10.560 by honoring the music. Yeah. Now let's honor the spirit 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:15.130 of what's vital about blaze. an artist's life when they, 0:06:15.750 --> 0:06:17.310 where their dreams don't come true. Yeah. 0:06:17.350 --> 0:06:18.789 I was going to ask you about how you settled 0:06:18.870 --> 0:06:21.170 on kind of the framing device and that makes it 0:06:21.210 --> 0:06:23.370 sound a little more mechanical than it is in this film. 0:06:23.390 --> 0:06:26.060 There's nothing mechanical about it, but honoring the music, the 0:06:26.100 --> 0:06:29.280 music is really not just the soundtrack. It's what holds 0:06:29.339 --> 0:06:30.060 the entire narrative. 0:06:30.100 --> 0:06:31.780 It holds it all together. I call it a country 0:06:31.820 --> 0:06:34.500 Western opera, you know, which is, you know, a good musical. 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:38.870 It tells the story of the characters through song. So 0:06:38.970 --> 0:06:42.250 I studied Blaze's music and figure like, what's the character 0:06:42.290 --> 0:06:45.630 inside the song? How could this song, uh, speak for 0:06:45.650 --> 0:06:51.050 the movie? And, and I had this idea that when 0:06:51.130 --> 0:06:53.830 people die, there's this kind of fight over the narrative. 0:06:54.529 --> 0:06:57.029 You know, I've seen it happen over. What's the story. 0:06:57.350 --> 0:06:59.830 And the wife tells one story and the best friend 0:06:59.870 --> 0:07:02.690 tells another story. And the person who worked with them 0:07:02.750 --> 0:07:05.690 tells another story. And often they don't match, you know, 0:07:05.710 --> 0:07:09.100 that they don't describe the same human being. And, and I, 0:07:10.180 --> 0:07:12.860 I think a lot about this, about past, present, and future. 0:07:13.460 --> 0:07:15.100 And that was my idea. What if I made a 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:19.070 movie where there really isn't one narrative? It's this braid 0:07:19.630 --> 0:07:22.690 of the three of them. There's the past, there's the present, 0:07:22.710 --> 0:07:25.390 the future, and they're always touching and affecting each other. 0:07:25.970 --> 0:07:29.810 And what if I could tell Blaze's life posthumously, the 0:07:29.850 --> 0:07:32.560 way people fight over the narrative after they're gone, the 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:36.140 way the narrative is being created in the moment, and 0:07:36.180 --> 0:07:39.050 the way that, you know, the the female point of view, 0:07:39.130 --> 0:07:41.090 his lover's point of view, his point of view, how 0:07:41.130 --> 0:07:43.530 they're all dancing off of each other. And I kind 0:07:43.550 --> 0:07:45.890 of just, that was my device. Yeah. 0:07:46.270 --> 0:07:48.950 Another touch that I really loved with the movie and 0:07:48.970 --> 0:07:51.420 it's something I can't really recall ever seeing before is 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:55.020 the way you show us characters in life happening outside 0:07:55.060 --> 0:07:57.460 of the point of view of that main character, right? 0:07:57.480 --> 0:07:59.940 So we get these little snippets sometimes where we follow 0:07:59.980 --> 0:08:02.140 the angry guy in from his truck as he then 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:05.020 gets into a fight with Blaze. And then the guy 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:06.670 whose job it is to clean up the remnants of 0:08:06.700 --> 0:08:09.100 the the beer bottle from that fight. And then we 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:11.100 follow him outside a little bit. And it did reinforce 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:13.620 for me anyway, the idea that everybody's the star of 0:08:13.660 --> 0:08:14.480 their own story, right? 0:08:14.580 --> 0:08:16.620 That's I, what I didn't want to do is make 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:21.640 another movie that deifies the individual that, Oh, Oh, isn't 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:24.800 it sad? Blaze wasn't discovered. You know what? Blaze lived 0:08:24.860 --> 0:08:28.920 his life and there are blazes around you all the time. 0:08:29.420 --> 0:08:32.540 That's what I wanted to do is like, who, who's 0:08:32.580 --> 0:08:35.100 the waitress at the club where blaze fully works. I 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:37.459 bet she's a musician too, or, What does she think 0:08:37.500 --> 0:08:40.000 about this song? What does the busboy think about it? 0:08:40.020 --> 0:08:42.989 What is the other person on the bus sitting about it? 0:08:44.070 --> 0:08:46.270 Hopefully what you take away from that is not that 0:08:46.410 --> 0:08:49.370 Blaze is special, but that we are special. 0:08:50.290 --> 0:08:52.040 I do really love that touch, as I said. And 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:55.119 you mentioned Born to be Blue. earlier one of my 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:57.920 favorite films of that year actually your performance i think 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:00.060 was my favorite of the year as chet baker and 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.040 i do want to ask you about one scene in 0:09:02.100 --> 0:09:05.040 particular you'll know which one here my apologies for quoting 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:06.800 myself but on the show when i talked about that 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:09.300 scene in my list of the year's best i said 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:11.000 that it starts with those familiar notes to my funny 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:13.540 valentine on his horn then switches to vocals he's there 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:15.020 to prove he can play the trumpet the way he 0:09:15.100 --> 0:09:17.439 used to play he mostly sings instead he's not a 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:20.460 particularly good singer but he commits to the performance he 0:09:20.500 --> 0:09:23.090 connects with the music he internalizes not just the words 0:09:23.140 --> 0:09:25.330 but the soul of the song And then expresses it 0:09:25.370 --> 0:09:28.250 in his own idiosyncratic way, which is what great artists do. 0:09:28.290 --> 0:09:30.990 And it's melancholy and haunting and gorgeous and weird and vulnerable. 0:09:31.610 --> 0:09:34.330 And I could go on about that performance in that scene. 0:09:34.390 --> 0:09:37.330 What I want to ask is how the performance scenes, 0:09:37.350 --> 0:09:39.690 that one in particular maybe, and that entire experience of 0:09:40.050 --> 0:09:43.550 playing Chet Baker did ultimately inform your making of this movie. 0:09:44.290 --> 0:09:48.550 There was a review I read of Chet's singing that 0:09:48.590 --> 0:09:52.290 gave me real inspiration, which was that it wasn't even 0:09:52.380 --> 0:09:55.880 somebody singing. It was the... the memory of someone having 0:09:55.940 --> 0:09:59.050 sung already. No sooner had it come out of his 0:09:59.110 --> 0:10:06.260 mouth and there was this detachment that he didn't sing well. 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:14.170 Like Nina Simone sings well. Louis Armstrong sings well. He communicates, 0:10:14.950 --> 0:10:18.910 and he communicates something genuine, that there's a genuine loneliness there. 0:10:19.690 --> 0:10:24.740 And there's a genuine fragility there. And he really liked 0:10:24.980 --> 0:10:28.140 to sing, but that he really liked to sing because 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:31.070 he was so worried about his teeth that he wanted 0:10:31.090 --> 0:10:34.510 to give his horn playing a break. I found that 0:10:34.710 --> 0:10:39.170 so interesting. It's kind of like Bob Fosse was this 0:10:39.230 --> 0:10:41.390 amazing dancer. And then as you study him, you realize, oh, 0:10:41.890 --> 0:10:43.650 He had a lot of problems with his legs. He 0:10:43.690 --> 0:10:46.730 was pigeon-toed. And he developed, because he wasn't as good 0:10:46.770 --> 0:10:49.309 a dancer as he wanted, he developed this real in-step 0:10:49.390 --> 0:10:52.800 move that people found really sexy and cool. But it 0:10:52.900 --> 0:10:56.559 came from trying to hide that he couldn't go out, 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:00.459 you know? And I find, it's this thing as a 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:02.100 parent all the time, you're trying to say, don't be 0:11:02.179 --> 0:11:04.440 scared of what makes you unique. It's actually what makes 0:11:04.500 --> 0:11:09.059 you beautiful. And that's why when I was like, you 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:11.550 know what? I wouldn't normally think I could play this 0:11:11.590 --> 0:11:17.150 jazz musician, but because his secret was actually an actor's secret, 0:11:17.470 --> 0:11:20.330 which is you have to actually just show him how 0:11:20.390 --> 0:11:23.580 scared you are. And then it can work. And that 0:11:23.620 --> 0:11:24.220 I thought I could do. 0:11:24.540 --> 0:11:27.000 Well, I use the word commits there and talking about 0:11:27.059 --> 0:11:30.660 commitment to a performance. Maybe what I appreciate most about 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:32.939 you as an actor is your level of commitment. I 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:35.100 was talking with our producer, Sam, about this, that we 0:11:35.140 --> 0:11:37.600 never doubt that you are 100% all the way in 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:41.160 on whatever it is that you're engaged in, whether it's 0:11:41.860 --> 0:11:45.520 life or whether it's art, do you think that commitment, 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:49.100 the act of committing to something is a choice you 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:51.319 make or is it an instinct? Is that just who 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:51.660 you are? 0:11:53.140 --> 0:11:57.179 Some of us are predisposed to certain things. And some 0:11:57.220 --> 0:12:01.179 of us, our fears and our insecurities are encouraged by life. 0:12:01.210 --> 0:12:07.449 And sometimes we have people, I find confidence extremely fragile. 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:12.680 And the difference between somebody who's good at something and 0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:15.500 somebody who's great at something often is confidence. And one 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:17.660 in person it can leave. We see it in sports 0:12:17.710 --> 0:12:20.510 all the time. A guy's on a hitting streak and 0:12:20.570 --> 0:12:24.050 he can't miss. And then that confidence is the talent, 0:12:24.070 --> 0:12:28.370 the body, the molecules, the parents, the practice. It's all 0:12:28.410 --> 0:12:31.490 the same. But where's that magic confidence and where does 0:12:31.530 --> 0:12:39.059 it come from? And so commitment, I think, a lot 0:12:39.100 --> 0:12:43.160 of confidence can, confidence can come in from two places. 0:12:43.410 --> 0:12:48.790 One is experience and another is commitment. There's a line 0:12:48.850 --> 0:12:52.530 actually in the movie blaze about confidence. Cause it's, it's 0:12:52.570 --> 0:12:56.429 a mystery to me how we, when we're at our worst, 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:59.480 it's usually because we don't, aren't confident when we, when 0:12:59.500 --> 0:13:03.440 we lie to somebody, when we're, uh, hateful to somebody 0:13:03.460 --> 0:13:05.840 we care about, or maybe somebody we just met, even, 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:09.179 you know, something is, We're letting the worst parts of 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:13.380 ourselves lead. And Ben Dickey, the lead actor, has this 0:13:13.420 --> 0:13:15.470 thing that he, you know, one of the things that 0:13:15.490 --> 0:13:19.610 gives you confidence is knowing that you're alive. Simply knowing 0:13:19.670 --> 0:13:22.750 that you actually have air in your lungs and that 0:13:22.790 --> 0:13:24.530 your heart is beating right now and that it actually 0:13:24.570 --> 0:13:27.610 won't forever. Yeah. It actually puts your finger on something 0:13:27.710 --> 0:13:30.329 very tangibly real. Like a sun, you know, one of 0:13:30.350 --> 0:13:32.130 the things that I think that people love about a 0:13:32.170 --> 0:13:35.630 sunrise or a sunset is it marks this day. Unlike 0:13:35.790 --> 0:13:41.650 this is really happening. Um, and from that, you realize 0:13:41.690 --> 0:13:44.550 that life is passing and that you can't waste these moments. 0:13:44.590 --> 0:13:48.110 And for some mysterious reason, confidence can be drawn because you, 0:13:48.470 --> 0:13:51.170 you can see the melodramas, the little things that shake 0:13:51.190 --> 0:13:54.500 your confidence aren't real. Oh, she won't like me. Maybe 0:13:54.540 --> 0:13:59.579 I'll fail. Um, failure feels so much better if you 0:13:59.780 --> 0:14:03.460 know you were committed. Yeah. It's just true. Absolutely. You know, 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:05.320 and I think that's the sports fan in me always. 0:14:05.340 --> 0:14:08.820 I love you don't ever have to feel bad about 0:14:08.860 --> 0:14:10.860 losing a game if you gave it your all, if 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:13.380 you leave it all in the field. You know, it's 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:17.620 the expression I heard watching an athlete once. Somebody said, 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:21.160 there's no quitting that guy. I thought, what a great expression. 0:14:22.860 --> 0:14:25.300 Permission to fail. You know, I remember one of my, 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:28.460 Richard Linkletter directing me one time said, you know, what 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:32.600 he didn't like about a certain actor he was talking 0:14:32.620 --> 0:14:34.920 about is that something happened during the day and he 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:38.150 gave himself permission to fail. That was the reason why 0:14:38.190 --> 0:14:40.510 I wasn't going to do a good job today. And 0:14:40.530 --> 0:14:42.630 he said, you just got to never give yourself permission. 0:14:42.870 --> 0:14:45.510 You're going to fail. We're all going to fail all 0:14:45.570 --> 0:14:48.470 the time. That's part of living, but don't give yourself permission. 0:14:49.820 --> 0:14:52.240 You know, go down swinging. And you know, I, I 0:14:52.260 --> 0:14:54.020 try to do that. Even if it's one of the 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:56.400 things that is lousy about the film business. If you're 0:14:56.420 --> 0:14:58.680 a painter, for example, and you're painting a picture and 0:14:58.700 --> 0:15:00.080 you get about halfway through it and you're going to go, 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:01.800 this is not going to work. You stop and you 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:04.420 put it in the, you know, garage or whatever you 0:15:04.460 --> 0:15:06.440 paint over the canvas. You wait two years till you 0:15:06.460 --> 0:15:08.180 have the idea to fix it. When you're halfway through 0:15:08.210 --> 0:15:09.930 a movie, sometimes, you know, it's not going to work. 0:15:11.150 --> 0:15:12.670 You just know it, you feel it in your mind, 0:15:12.970 --> 0:15:14.730 but you got to finish it because all these people 0:15:14.770 --> 0:15:16.670 are being paid. And you're like, damn it. I know 0:15:16.730 --> 0:15:17.310 this isn't. 0:15:17.150 --> 0:15:17.570 Going to work. 0:15:18.270 --> 0:15:20.330 And you, but you, what you can't do, you know, 0:15:20.350 --> 0:15:23.590 I actually heard Paul Schrader speak about this so beautifully. He, he, 0:15:24.010 --> 0:15:27.930 he really believes that a big part of cinema is casting, 0:15:28.810 --> 0:15:30.850 you know, and, and if you cast it wrong, he, 0:15:32.030 --> 0:15:33.890 You figure it out about two weeks into the shoot, 0:15:34.010 --> 0:15:38.650 and it's just over. And when you cast it right, 0:15:39.010 --> 0:15:41.650 then everything starts working all by itself. And that's the 0:15:41.690 --> 0:15:44.080 way I've come to feel that way. 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:46.600 You mentioned Linklater, and I want to talk about him here. 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:48.780 We have just a little bit of time left. I 0:15:48.820 --> 0:15:50.660 kind of hate this trend on social media of parents 0:15:50.740 --> 0:15:54.380 sharing funny or poignant things their precocious kids supposedly just said, 0:15:54.420 --> 0:15:56.240 but now I'm going to be guilty of it. I 0:15:56.260 --> 0:15:58.680 got a text from my daughter, Sophie, completely out of 0:15:58.700 --> 0:16:01.720 the blue recently, and it said this. It is two 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:04.540 weeks from my 14th birthday. This is exactly the age 0:16:04.660 --> 0:16:07.720 Juliet fell in love with Romeo. Now, she was reading 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:10.220 Shakespeare in school, but my first thought was, shoot me. 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:12.040 You know, I'm just, I'm not prepared for any of this. 0:16:12.060 --> 0:16:14.180 But my second thought was, I think she's ready for 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:17.620 Before Sunrise. And I'm actually, I'm really, I'm really now 0:16:17.830 --> 0:16:19.810 eager to watch that film with her. So I want you, 0:16:19.870 --> 0:16:22.930 Ethan Hawke, to guide me. Should we dive into that? 0:16:23.130 --> 0:16:28.810 Yeah. First of all, you know, everybody does their own thing. 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:31.460 but there's this thing that goes around with men that 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:34.100 they're supposed to be scared of their daughter's sexuality. And 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:38.380 it's like, some of them, they think it's a good quality. Uh, Oh, 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:40.440 you know, I remember when Maya, my oldest, when she 0:16:40.460 --> 0:16:42.780 was turning 16, Oh, you better keep those guys away. 0:16:42.860 --> 0:16:44.780 Keep a shotgun at the door or something. And I 0:16:44.780 --> 0:16:46.340 was like, you know what? I'm going to give Maya 0:16:47.020 --> 0:16:49.830 permission to be your own shotgun, you know? And if 0:16:49.870 --> 0:16:52.630 you act all scared of her sexuality, then how is 0:16:52.730 --> 0:16:53.670 she supposed to feel? 0:16:54.590 --> 0:16:54.870 You know? 0:16:55.370 --> 0:16:58.540 And, um, there's a great movie that Chris Christopherson plays 0:16:58.580 --> 0:17:00.960 a dad and it's called a soldier's daughter never cries. 0:17:01.020 --> 0:17:04.040 It's written by James Jones and Chris plays this old 0:17:04.100 --> 0:17:07.030 war veteran and writer. And, and I saw it really 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:11.909 affected me because Chris just, his character just loves his 0:17:11.970 --> 0:17:15.770 daughter and gives her permission to be a hundred percent 0:17:15.850 --> 0:17:19.290 human being. Meaning you are a sexual person. Julia did 0:17:19.350 --> 0:17:22.919 fall in love with Romeo and you know what? It's beautiful. And, 0:17:24.340 --> 0:17:25.920 Is she prepared to fall in love? No. 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:26.609 Were you? 0:17:26.850 --> 0:17:30.930 No. Nobody is. You're never going to do it all right, 0:17:31.390 --> 0:17:35.169 but you can give her confidence. Confidence to know that 0:17:35.250 --> 0:17:37.030 she's in charge and she doesn't need to be scared 0:17:37.070 --> 0:17:39.570 of him. She doesn't need a dad with a shotgun 0:17:39.609 --> 0:17:41.560 behind her. She can handle herself and she can go 0:17:41.580 --> 0:17:44.500 have a good time and she can make mistakes and 0:17:44.540 --> 0:17:48.680 she can recover from them. You know, that's this idea 0:17:48.859 --> 0:17:51.700 of innocence and this idea that we're not allowed to 0:17:51.740 --> 0:17:55.100 make mistakes and that, you know, We are allowed to 0:17:55.140 --> 0:17:56.699 make mistakes and we're allowed to grow up. And if 0:17:56.720 --> 0:17:59.629 we don't, if we don't, then we're just going to 0:17:59.710 --> 0:18:04.030 live in a little tiny, tiny glass world. And I've 0:18:04.070 --> 0:18:06.149 given my daughter permission to make a big fool of 0:18:06.190 --> 0:18:07.090 herself if she wants. 0:18:07.230 --> 0:18:07.790 Yeah. 0:18:07.970 --> 0:18:10.490 And to break some hearts and to get her heart broken. 0:18:10.540 --> 0:18:10.670 Yep. 0:18:11.740 --> 0:18:14.409 And I think I was really, I got to tell you, 0:18:14.420 --> 0:18:17.480 one of the best moments of my life was Maya 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.440 was about 18. So just a year or so ago 0:18:20.500 --> 0:18:23.220 and a couple of her and her friends decided, One 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:25.040 of her friends told her that Before Sunrise was a 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:28.399 really good film. She's like, my dad's film? And they're like, yeah. 0:18:29.060 --> 0:18:32.760 And she watched it and she loved it. And she 0:18:33.580 --> 0:18:36.260 had all these interesting things to say about it. And 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:41.230 I was so pleased to know that those, we had 0:18:41.250 --> 0:18:43.010 a goal when we were making that movie to have 0:18:43.190 --> 0:18:46.410 no pop culture references. We wanted it to be able 0:18:46.430 --> 0:18:49.250 to not be, is it 1970? Is it 2010? You know, 0:18:49.270 --> 0:18:50.520 we made it in whatever year it was, 94, 95 0:18:50.510 --> 0:18:53.990 or whatever. But we wanted it to be able to 0:18:54.070 --> 0:18:56.570 float through time because the way you feel when you 0:18:56.609 --> 0:18:59.550 walk through an old European city, you almost feel like 0:18:59.609 --> 0:19:02.949 a ghost. Because the past, present, future, when things are 0:19:03.010 --> 0:19:05.840 so old around you, it feels a little different than 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:08.359 it does here in America. So I say show your 0:19:08.380 --> 0:19:10.820 daughter before sunrise. I hope she likes it. And tell 0:19:10.859 --> 0:19:14.640 her she's right. She is the age of Juliet. And 0:19:14.740 --> 0:19:16.460 things are happening. And it's for real. 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:18.240 Yeah, we're going to do that soon. And to her credit, 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:21.780 when I made some non-evolved comment back to her. She replied, 0:19:21.970 --> 0:19:24.359 reminding me how young I was when I met her mother. 0:19:24.380 --> 0:19:27.560 How old were you? I was 16. Wow, so there 0:19:27.580 --> 0:19:28.980 you go. Put me in my place. 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:29.960 It's on. 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:31.300 Very quickly. And you know, tell her to go see 0:19:31.340 --> 0:19:33.139 Romeo and Juliet too because she'll learn a lot from that. 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:34.700 For sure. That play teaches you a lot. 0:19:36.230 --> 0:19:38.870 Okay, we're going to end with the film spotting five here. 0:19:38.910 --> 0:19:40.150 Five rapid fire questions. 0:19:40.290 --> 0:19:40.530 Hit me. 0:19:40.730 --> 0:19:42.899 Last movie you saw in the theater other than your own? 0:19:44.410 --> 0:19:47.640 I don't know what the last one I saw was. 0:19:47.700 --> 0:19:49.800 The one that jumps to my mind is I saw the... 0:19:49.820 --> 0:19:54.399 25th anniversary of Malcolm X in Brooklyn with a full house. 0:19:55.180 --> 0:19:57.780 And it goes to show how much you can't watch 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:01.790 how important it is going to the movies because... I 0:20:01.810 --> 0:20:04.389 remember being told that that movie was too long. When 0:20:04.410 --> 0:20:08.120 you see Denzel's performance in that movie with the music 0:20:08.190 --> 0:20:09.520 blaring and the crowd laughing. 0:20:09.540 --> 0:20:11.240 Yeah, I've never seen it with an audience, I can imagine. 0:20:11.380 --> 0:20:14.899 It's like, it's better than a fireworks display, you know? 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:17.640 I mean, it's what cinema is supposed to be. So 0:20:17.660 --> 0:20:21.020 that floored me. That was the most recent one I remember. 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:21.859 Okay, is there another one? 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:25.770 Oh, I saw Claire Denis recently, her film with Juliette Binoche, 0:20:25.790 --> 0:20:27.130 which was also staggering. 0:20:27.150 --> 0:20:28.150 Let the Sunshine In, yeah. 0:20:28.190 --> 0:20:31.910 Yeah, this woman, Juliette Binoche, she's... The greatest, right? She 0:20:31.970 --> 0:20:34.190 really is first ballot Hall of Famer, man. She just 0:20:34.290 --> 0:20:35.000