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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Favorites the podcast from the Volume Podcast Network.

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Speaker 1: I am Chad Mollman, Chief Content Officer of the Action Network.

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Speaker 1: I am joined as always by my BFF, my companion,

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Speaker 1: my compadre professional better, Simon Hunter. Hello, Simon Sad. What's

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Speaker 1: going on? Brother? We got a We're gonna have a

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Speaker 1: big show today because listen, I know you don't like

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Speaker 1: to admit this. You're like, uh, you're like a former

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Speaker 1: athlete who jumps into the broadcast booth and then refers

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Speaker 1: to the media as if you aren't a member of

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Speaker 1: the media. What's that. I'm Draymond Green. I'm playing at

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Speaker 1: the highest level within championships, millions of dollars. Podcast with you, Chad,

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Speaker 1: You're part of You're part of the new media, right,

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Speaker 1: I'm part of the old media. We're gonna talk a

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Speaker 1: little bit about media. We're gonna talk about media and betting, uh,

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Speaker 1: and then just media in general because it does impact betters.

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Speaker 1: With one of the most pre eminent reporters on the

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Speaker 1: sports media business who has been doing it for a

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Speaker 1: long time at a huge brand. Jimmy traina host of

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Speaker 1: the Sports Illustrated Media podcast, author of the column Train

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Speaker 1: of Thoughts. Jimmy, Welcome to the Favorites. Brother, how are you.

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Speaker 1: I'm well, thanks for having me. It was way too

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Speaker 1: kind of an intro, so thank you. Well, that's the

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Speaker 1: last kind thing we're gonna say about you. So here's

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Speaker 1: what I want to know. I've known you as a

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Speaker 1: guy who has written about gambling for a long time,

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Speaker 1: who knows the space, and yet if you were to

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Speaker 1: read your stuff or listen to you on the podcast,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like you're so anti gambling. Really yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think we all have that opinion. We feel like you

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Speaker 1: can be, like, uh, a bit of a gambling scourage

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Speaker 1: at times. I would have to ask for like a

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Speaker 1: more specific criticism. I'm not because I do wager. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'm on a little break right now. I'm gonna wait

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Speaker 1: till college football starts. But um, once college football starts,

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Speaker 1: I bet every single day until pretty much the NBA

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Speaker 1: Finals end. So to classify me as anti gambling is

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Speaker 1: pretty interesting. It feels I'm saying it feels like some

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Speaker 1: times you don't. You're not as enthusiastic about the way

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Speaker 1: the media covers gambling and how gambling can be incorporated

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Speaker 1: into the broader conversation. Well, I don't necessarily think it's

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Speaker 1: probably gab. I get annoyed by anything that we get

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Speaker 1: bombarded by. So you may use gambling ads here as

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Speaker 1: an example, but I can't stand it when you know

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Speaker 1: ESPN uses, you know, halftime to give me a trailer

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Speaker 1: of some stupid Disney movie. So, like, I may get

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Speaker 1: frustrated by the amount of gambling ads, although it's not

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Speaker 1: nearly as bad now as it was. Um, I don't

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Speaker 1: know what was it like five or six years ago

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Speaker 1: when every ad was like DraftKings. Yeah here in New York. Um,

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Speaker 1: I do get annoyed at people who consider themselves like

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Speaker 1: gambling experts or touts, because I think that's all bullshit. Um,

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Speaker 1: but nobody likes to make a wager more than me.

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Speaker 1: What do you think is good gambling coverage forgetting for

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Speaker 1: a second year on a gambling centric podcast for a

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Speaker 1: gambling centric company. You know, if I'm looking at it

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Speaker 1: as someone who places wagers to me, I don't, I

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Speaker 1: don't need other if I'm doing my research, I don't

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Speaker 1: need other reasons, like you need to know your injuries,

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Speaker 1: you need to know your weather if it's football. I

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Speaker 1: don't believe in trends Like if you tell me you

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Speaker 1: know the Bears or six and oh since against the Bengals,

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Speaker 1: I think that's a complete bullshit stat that means nothing,

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Speaker 1: It has nothing to do with today. Um. I'm more

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Speaker 1: into sort of what I love is I'd love for

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Speaker 1: announcers during telecast to acknowledge the spread and the over

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Speaker 1: under when it's in play in the last let's say

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Speaker 1: five minutes and I I mean, there's no bigger fan

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Speaker 1: of bead beats than May So I love the coverage

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Speaker 1: of how you lose a wager or on the flip

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Speaker 1: side of that, how you win a wager. We always

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Speaker 1: seem to focus on the losses, but on every bed

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Speaker 1: beat there's a win. So I'm more into the coverage

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Speaker 1: of that how a bet was one or lost? Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, two minutes left in an NFL game, teams

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Speaker 1: up by three, the spread is four, are they gonna

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Speaker 1: take a knee? Like? I'm into that more than trends,

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Speaker 1: stats and all that other stuff. That's fair enough. Do

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Speaker 1: you think the math that makes it all is connected

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Speaker 1: in some way? But I'm with you about trends. Trends

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Speaker 1: are the end all be all, but with certain things,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I mean, I think trends makes sense if

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Speaker 1: they're sort of relevant and current, Like if you know,

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Speaker 1: I think the baseball season might be a good example

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Speaker 1: of that. If you tell me, you know, the Yankees

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Speaker 1: are Tenanto against the Twins this season, there's some relevance there.

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Speaker 1: But when you go back to past years, when there's

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Speaker 1: completly different players on the teams and different coaches, it's irrelevant.

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Speaker 1: It isn't. That's what I'm trying to explaining you. It's

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Speaker 1: all connected, brother, Like history repeats itself constantly. You can

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Speaker 1: about any history book. It's gonna keep repeating itself. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's a reason Europe all those wards were decided by

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Speaker 1: a Russian winter. Like it just Napoleon he learned the hardway,

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Speaker 1: went to Russia in the winter, he learned Hitler, he learned.

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Speaker 1: It's it's just connected. But I'm with you about it.

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Speaker 1: It's hard where it's like, how can what happened fifty

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Speaker 1: years ago matter about today? But there's a little bit,

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Speaker 1: there's a little bit and all of it. And if

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Speaker 1: the trends worked out, we'd all be millionaires and not

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Speaker 1: doing what we're doing for a living, and there wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be Vegas casinos standing up. Well, but you know what

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Speaker 1: I signon. Uh, you know, I hate to disagree with you,

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Speaker 1: but I do think there's a difference when you're talking

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Speaker 1: about a Russian winter stopping a war and what the

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Speaker 1: Bears did against the Packers. The everything about that is different.

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Speaker 1: I think what's interesting in the coverage, Jimmy we're talking

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Speaker 1: about is and we see it at action, writing about

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Speaker 1: the lines, writing about the markets, writing about the final

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Speaker 1: two minutes and the bad beats. It's very small, right,

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Speaker 1: And at the end of the day, what the audience

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Speaker 1: wants is to be told who do the wise guys

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Speaker 1: like and why? That's what I'm interested in. You can't

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Speaker 1: fight fate like history is what it is. Where the

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Speaker 1: Bears they can draft quarterbacks they never have. Ohio State

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Speaker 1: can't produce quarterbacks that never have. Am I gonna be

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Speaker 1: wrong one day? Yeah? But I've been fading them my

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Speaker 1: entire life on the basis of these two teams. Can't

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Speaker 1: produce quarterbacks and it's worked out for me. So I

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Speaker 1: get what you're saying. I'm just I just believe in history.

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Speaker 1: That's my whole point. I also think different sports lend

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Speaker 1: itself to different coverage. For instance, getting news and information

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Speaker 1: is more important on a Saturday morning for college football

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Speaker 1: than and NFL. You know the injuries, you you know,

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Speaker 1: if you watch a pregame show, checking the internet, you'll

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Speaker 1: know the weather, You're gonna know when players are out.

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Speaker 1: In the NFL, it's just the NFL is a beast

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Speaker 1: with But like on a Saturday morning, if I'm here

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Speaker 1: in New York and I want to bet, you know, Colorado,

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Speaker 1: Colorado State, I might not know that the quarterback for

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Speaker 1: one of those teams is out. So I think information,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think different sports, Like I said, Lendon,

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Speaker 1: you know, different baseball is a whole different animal than

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Speaker 1: NFL betting. Um, So I think for college you know,

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Speaker 1: I think your site action for you know, college football Saturday,

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Speaker 1: like I would be locked into all that in from Saturday.

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Speaker 1: I do more research on a Saturday morning to college

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Speaker 1: football than any of the sports because I feel like

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Speaker 1: there's so many more games, so many more teams, you

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Speaker 1: can't keep up with it all. It's very easy to

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Speaker 1: keep up with the NFL. I was just saying that's

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Speaker 1: the NFL effect though, where that's why the books make

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Speaker 1: their most money off NFL. Is that exact mentality of

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Speaker 1: I watch a lot of NFL, so I know NFL,

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Speaker 1: and that's what the NFL bank like this worst books

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Speaker 1: bank on that where it's like people are ladies of the

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Speaker 1: the NFL because they say I watch a lot of

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Speaker 1: the NFL. It's simple. It's on all day Sunday. You know,

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Speaker 1: everyone knows all the names, you know all these players,

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Speaker 1: and that's how they make a killing. It's where it's

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Speaker 1: like the more you know, the more you watch. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about news specifically, like yeah, I mean, if

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Speaker 1: you watch NFL and you think, okay, this quarterback is good,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna, you know, always bet this team. That's different

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Speaker 1: than finding out about an injury, finding out about whether

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Speaker 1: finding out this player was suspended because he was out,

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Speaker 1: you know, drinking the night before. There's so many more wild,

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Speaker 1: crazy things that happened in college football where I think

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Speaker 1: the information news information is more vital there than in

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Speaker 1: forty seven hundred in Wyoming, or visit one gambler dot

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Speaker 1: net in West Virginia. What's your view on this Maning

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Speaker 1: cast and the impact it's had on TV and what's

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Speaker 1: to say about the similar Manning cast in the future,

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Speaker 1: They're gonna be different casts like that, they're gonna be

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Speaker 1: betting cast. Do you think in the future where you

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Speaker 1: know the NFL is really embracing sports betting. Here we are,

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Speaker 1: all these teams are making deals. I think the Bengal

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Speaker 1: has just signed a deal chat. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: book it might be, but the Bengal has just opened

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Speaker 1: a book in their stadium. So a lot of things

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Speaker 1: happen to sports betting. Yeah, I wouldn't expect to see

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Speaker 1: an betting specific shows on networks during games that because

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Speaker 1: that you know, Roger Goodell still doesn't want announcers mentioning

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Speaker 1: point spread, so we're not gonna make the leap to

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Speaker 1: like a gambling show within a game. I think networks

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Speaker 1: that don't have a TV deal with the NFL, obviously

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Speaker 1: they'll be all in on on gambling shows. Um. In

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Speaker 1: terms of the Manning Cast, the worst thing about the

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Speaker 1: Manning cast that everyone's gonna do a Manning cast now

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Speaker 1: and it's just not going to be nearly as good

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Speaker 1: as the Manning cast. So you know every network is

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Speaker 1: gonna copy it, and very very few, if any, will

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Speaker 1: be successful. What ESPN did with the Manning cast and

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Speaker 1: in conjunction with all our productions, I mean, that's a

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Speaker 1: unique special deal with You've got brothers who can bust

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Speaker 1: each other's balls and then you know that chemistry hard

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Speaker 1: to find. So you know there's all this stuff. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's a new report. Amazon is going to do a

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Speaker 1: Manning cast for the Thursday Night package. Al Michaels and

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Speaker 1: Kara Kurbsheet'll call the regular game, and then there'll be

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Speaker 1: an alternate telecast which just quarter you know, old quarterbacks.

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't see how that gets people all

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Speaker 1: hot and bothered. It does seem very derivative, right, and

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Speaker 1: so nobody can come up with a new idea. Once

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Speaker 1: there is a new idea, Let's see what the other

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Speaker 1: sort of variations separated by two or three degrees of

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Speaker 1: that idea could be. You mentioned something earlier, and I

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Speaker 1: get asked this all the time, So I'd like to

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Speaker 1: know your opinion the inclusion of relevant gambling information in

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Speaker 1: national broadcasts. What's the line for you in terms of

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Speaker 1: how much is enough and how much is too much?

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Speaker 1: I don't think you have too much that to me,

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Speaker 1: there's no line, you know, Like I said, if if

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Speaker 1: you know listen, I don't know if you need like

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Speaker 1: Jim nance and Joe back talking about like the first

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Speaker 1: quarter line, that might be a little in the heads um.

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Speaker 1: But again, you know, listen, if you bet NFL everyone

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Speaker 1: knows this, You're playing it an entire game in your brain.

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Speaker 1: We've how to cover spread. Oh if they if they

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Speaker 1: can get one first down here, they can move the

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Speaker 1: clock here. You know, I'm rooting for them to not

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Speaker 1: get a first down. I want them to get a

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Speaker 1: field goal. If they get a field goal, they can

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Speaker 1: come back when you know you're going through. So I

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Speaker 1: do think an alternate telecast that detailing all that would

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Speaker 1: be tremendous. I don't know if there's a massive audience

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Speaker 1: for that, and again Roger Goodell would never allow that,

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Speaker 1: but I'd love to see you go you know right now.

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Speaker 1: What will happen is, you know, let's say on the

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Speaker 1: final play of a game, there's a garbage play touchdown,

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Speaker 1: the game goes over, and an announcement say, oh, you know,

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Speaker 1: al Michael's that was overwhelming. They'll they'll couch it like that.

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Speaker 1: I would wish they could be more direct about it

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Speaker 1: and say, listen, the score here is, you know, thirty

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Speaker 1: one ten. We know the only people left watching of

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Speaker 1: the people have over forty four. Let's see if we

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Speaker 1: you know, they can get there and break it down

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Speaker 1: that way, But again, Roger gotll have an aneurism and

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Speaker 1: it won't happen. So there's so much moving and change

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Speaker 1: in the sports media. I'm interested to hear your view

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Speaker 1: and if you like the way the sports medias going,

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Speaker 1: are there any newcombers in sports media that as surprise

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Speaker 1: You're delighted? You like the new personalities that have come

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Speaker 1: into sports media these last you know, four or five

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Speaker 1: years where things have kind of changed. Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting because, um, there's this whole thing with the

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Speaker 1: NBA with new media, new media and players getting involved.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm a huge I love what JJ Reddick

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Speaker 1: and Richard Jefferson doing the n b A. I think

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Speaker 1: they're great as ex athletes. You didn't enjoy Draymond doing

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Speaker 1: live updates during the finals that I'm not into. I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about Richard Jefferson and J. J Reddick, what they

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Speaker 1: do with their podcasts and and Richard Jefferson's just a

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Speaker 1: complete character on Twitter and TikTok and Instagram and all that.

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Speaker 1: So I do what they do there. Listen, he hasn't

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Speaker 1: started yet, but I can't wait to see what Brady does.

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Speaker 1: I mean to me, that's gonna be the ultimate two things.

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Speaker 1: You said. Number one, why aren't you into the Draymond

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Speaker 1: Green stuff? I thought it was amazing. Every every minute

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Speaker 1: of it was entertaining. He because he's turned me off

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Speaker 1: a little bit with his personality. How so, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think sometimes he's entertaining and I think sometimes he's

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Speaker 1: whacked out of his head. So he has this attitude

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Speaker 1: that like no one's allowed to criticize any place. Did

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Speaker 1: you see him he got mad because someone on Sports

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Speaker 1: Center called Kevin Durant emotional. Yeah, sports Center anchor is

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Speaker 1: allowed to have that opinion, and he's allowed to voice

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Speaker 1: that opinion. Sorry, Draymond. He did nothing wrong. He did

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Speaker 1: nothing wrong, and Draymond is certainly within his right to

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Speaker 1: go after him. And to me, that's part of the

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Speaker 1: game though, Like Draymond, I will take it. I will

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Speaker 1: take when you're when you're going after people every single day,

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Speaker 1: it gets tired and played out and feels forced unless

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Speaker 1: that's who he is, Like, he's never been someone on

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Speaker 1: the court who doesn't act that way, right, And so

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Speaker 1: to me, I'm getting Draymond at his rost in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the NBA Finals talking about reaction. It's the

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Speaker 1: most meta things there is, right, it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: Russian nesting doll. We got Draymond responding to the response

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Speaker 1: to him not doing well because he might be hosting

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Speaker 1: the podcast in the middle of the finals. And then

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Speaker 1: he has two bad you know, he has those two

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Speaker 1: bad games and then goes off in the last three

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Speaker 1: and he's fantastic and it's a non issue. That's all

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Speaker 1: drama fun to me, that's what this is supposed to

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Speaker 1: be about. That to me is an I just think

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Speaker 1: it's I think it gets like there's there's days where

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Speaker 1: I'm just like, you know, it's enough already, Like it

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Speaker 1: goes on every day, and you know, and there's also

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Speaker 1: a lot of hypocrisy involved. You know, they you know,

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Speaker 1: him and the Warriors got all bent out of shape

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Speaker 1: when the was it was it the the Grizzlies. Uh

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Speaker 1: was it where the fans are channing F. Draymond? What

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Speaker 1: what fans of those? I think that was was that

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Speaker 1: was Memphis, Memphis? It was yeah, yeah, they were channing,

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Speaker 1: you know, F. Draymond, And he was dancing to it, right,

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Speaker 1: and then you know, he was the one who was

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Speaker 1: saying after fame, I don't know what. And then the

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Speaker 1: Boston fans are kersen to Clay Thompson and the Warrior's

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Speaker 1: got all hot and bothered it was, you know, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't think there's a lot of like objectivity or

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Speaker 1: like down the line with Draymond, He's always gonna take

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Speaker 1: players side, and then the players are never wrong about anything,

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Speaker 1: and that's just not the way it works. It is interesting, though,

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Speaker 1: how some players can elicit a reaction from the media

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Speaker 1: and it's almost always positive, and some players can elicit

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Speaker 1: a reaction from the media and it's almost always negative.

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Speaker 1: How have you seen that manifest itself in the years

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Speaker 1: you've been covering media? A big factor in that, you know,

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Speaker 1: media people use athletes as sources, They use agents as sources.

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Speaker 1: Some media people have the same agents as athletes. So

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Speaker 1: from the day I started as high I've always maintained

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Speaker 1: there's not one reporter, media person, anyone who's objective. There's

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Speaker 1: no such thing as objective. You want to say that

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Speaker 1: this report is objective, Well, that reporter has relationships with gms,

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Speaker 1: with agents, with players. No one's objective. I think there

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Speaker 1: are people who have agendas, but I don't think overall

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Speaker 1: most media people use their agenda to either not. I

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Speaker 1: think there are some I think it goes on, but

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Speaker 1: I think everyone has their own feelings about whether they

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Speaker 1: like an athlete or like. You know, I like Tom Brady,

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Speaker 1: for instance, So I've written negative things about Tom Brady

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Speaker 1: because of the TV twelve stuff, but overall like, I

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Speaker 1: like Tom Brady. So am I going to give him

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Speaker 1: the benefit of doubt more than an athlete I don't like? Probably,

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Speaker 1: But I try to be very clear about who I

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Speaker 1: like and who I don't like. I think that's where

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Speaker 1: I'm sort of different, and that's why, you know, if

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Speaker 1: people read my column listen to my podcast, I make

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Speaker 1: it very clear like who I like and who I

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Speaker 1: don't like. So, for instance, everyone knows I'm a Yankee fan.

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Speaker 1: I love Derek Cheater. I just watched the Jeeter doc

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Speaker 1: and I told people, like, here's my review, but I'm

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Speaker 1: coming at it as a Jeter fan, so be prepared,

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Speaker 1: you know. So my issue isn't if if if isn't,

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Speaker 1: if isn't if a media person is not objective, it's

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Speaker 1: let me know. Just let me know what you are

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Speaker 1: and then I can gauge how I want to judge

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Speaker 1: your opinion. Yeah, I would say as some of that's

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Speaker 1: new indue media. I've definitely it's been a little eye opening, Um,

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Speaker 1: the egos and how certain people are. Um, I mean

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Speaker 1: I kind of knew it was that way. Again, I

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Speaker 1: was a huge t O fan. We all agree too,

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Speaker 1: as a top four, top five BIB receiver ever to

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Speaker 1: play football, wasn't a first ballot Hall of Famer because

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Speaker 1: he was an asshole to all these guys in media.

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Speaker 1: So I get it, Like, I get both sides where

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Speaker 1: it's like, you can't treat people like trash your whole

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Speaker 1: career and not work with people in media and they

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Speaker 1: expect them to give your roses on your way out.

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Speaker 1: Like it has to work both ways because these people

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Speaker 1: are trying to do a job. So I've kind of

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Speaker 1: adjusted to it. Um, It's definitely been a learning curve

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Speaker 1: where it's like, you know, people will say crazy shit

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Speaker 1: and it's widely wrong, and they'll just keep it moving.

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Speaker 1: They want to acknowledge the crazy thing they said. So

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Speaker 1: it's definitely interesting to see how that's kind of progressed

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Speaker 1: here with not that I'm blaming Stephen A. Smith and

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Speaker 1: Skip Bayliss, but like they've kind of set this trend

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Speaker 1: in media now that it's again. I think the guy

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Speaker 1: like Draymond Green we're talking about, that's what he's pushing

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Speaker 1: back on our guys like that, where you know, Shannon

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Speaker 1: Sharp can say whatever you want and then the next

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Speaker 1: day you can just keep it moving. Well, I'd argue

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Speaker 1: there though, that Draymond Green gives Shannon Sharp credibility. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't think anyone really cares what Shannon Sharp says,

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Speaker 1: but then for some reason care and then they give

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Speaker 1: that give people like that credibility. I do want to

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Speaker 1: say one thing about media and objectivity. Well, I do

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Speaker 1: think every media person has some biases based on relationships

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Speaker 1: and connections. I will say the one thing I will

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Speaker 1: push back on that fans are deranged about and think that,

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Speaker 1: you know, like when Joe Buck does a game, or

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Speaker 1: Jim Nance or Alt Michaels like they think they're rooting

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Speaker 1: for one team. I don't think any of those guys.

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Speaker 1: I've gotten to know all these played by play guys,

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Speaker 1: I've interviewed all of them multiple times, they do not

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Speaker 1: have any rooting interests. When they're calling game. They want

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Speaker 1: a game that's going down to the final play. But

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Speaker 1: fans for some reason, are hung up on this thing

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Speaker 1: that like the play by play guy is rooting for

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00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 1: one team and it's so foolish. But most sports fans

425
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 1: a foolish So you just mentioned something really interesting about

426
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 1: objectivity though. So The Washington Post this week did a

427
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 1: big story about Adam Schefter and the money he's getting

428
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 1: paid and how he's always working, and there were long

429
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,439
Speaker 1: parts of the story that we're about how he managed,

430
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: how he tweeted about certain players in domestic violence, how

431
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 1: he sent that story to the guy who used to

432
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 1: be the GM for the Washington football team, said Mr Editor.

433
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 1: When you see stuff like that, you see stuff like

434
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 1: woas who breaks every story through agents or shams and

435
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. Guys getting paid, you know,

436
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: a lot of money right now. That's a pretty dramatic

437
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 1: change in the media business. I'm all four people getting paid.

438
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 1: But do the relationships with the agents make that feel

439
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,959
Speaker 1: less than what it is because they're getting this inside

440
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 1: information through these relationships that I feel like you take

441
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 1: less work. I don't care what these guys get paid.

442
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,199
Speaker 1: I say, get whatever you want. I guess things have

443
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,159
Speaker 1: changed so dramatically over the years with the advent of

444
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,120
Speaker 1: the Internet and then social media obviously, and everyone becoming

445
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,680
Speaker 1: a brand. I mean, that's that's what's changed the game.

446
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,640
Speaker 1: Everyone's there our own brands. And I don't think I've

447
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: ever looked at Adam Schefter as a reporter, Like, for me,

448
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 1: if you're reporting, you know, on a trade, to me,

449
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 1: that's different than people who are doing like investigative pieces

450
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 1: onto Shaun Watson. Like there's two different things there. So

451
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: I think I look at Adam Schefter as a transactional reporter.

452
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: This guy got traded, this guy got fired, this guy

453
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: is hurt, he's doing transactions he's not doing Here are

454
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:08,719
Speaker 1: eight more women that have come out about DeShawn Watson

455
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: and what they claim. So I think maybe I think

456
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,159
Speaker 1: this way because I'm in the media, so I know

457
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: how it works. But reporters a very broad term, and

458
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:24,880
Speaker 1: to me, transactional is a different kind of reporter than

459
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: someone who's breaking news that's not you know, a trade

460
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,959
Speaker 1: or an injury. Would you say those people are considered

461
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: journalists rather than reporters. Yeah, I I you could classify

462
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: it that way. Journalist reporters. I mean, you know, it's

463
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 1: all about a label at this, you know, But there's

464
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 1: a big difference between what Jenny Frentis is doing at

465
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,919
Speaker 1: the New York Times and Adam Schefter is doing. But

466
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: they're both called reporters. They're both called journalists. But you know, well, baby, yeah,

467
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 1: I was gonna say I would never be called a

468
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: journalist boys, so don't worry. So I'll give you a

469
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,679
Speaker 1: little background here with me. G I've basically been a

470
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: pro better for say ten years, lived in Vegas. I

471
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,719
Speaker 1: specialized NFL. It's what I do. Chad, my good friend here,

472
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: has been my mentor. I've been in what is this

473
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: year four? Season four? We're heading in two together. Um,

474
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 1: you know, it feels like so many more. What would

475
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 1: your advice be to someone like me that's new in

476
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 1: the media. How how does one succeed in this new landscape?

477
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: I mean, how do you deal see the better information?

478
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: I feel like that's my biggest thing. I'd love to

479
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,199
Speaker 1: ask you. Where you're seeing people put out such awful information?

480
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 1: How do you not go at them on social media?

481
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: And how you just keep in your own little world

482
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: instead of engaging and these people that you know it's

483
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: not even worth your time to deal with. Yeah, everyone

484
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: asked me that I don't know. It's just very easy

485
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: for me to not engage and not I've always said

486
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 1: I only Twitter's real life. I think as soon as

487
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 1: you like for me, as soon as I take this

488
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: and I put it down, like Twitter doesn't exist. So

489
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 1: whenever there's anarchy going on, or if I tweet something

490
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 1: and I'm getting replies from people, if I just don't

491
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: go on the Twitter app, everything's normal. I think you're

492
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: in a good placed in terms of getting into the

493
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 1: gambling aspect of it, because obviously it's huge and only

494
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 1: going to get bigger and bigger and bigger. You know,

495
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,719
Speaker 1: find your niche because if you can tweet some picks

496
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 1: and go like let's say five and one on an

497
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,199
Speaker 1: NFL Sunday, you'll get a bunch of new followers. Now,

498
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 1: how I make my money is I gave up the

499
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 1: Jaguars money line in Week eighteen against the Colts, and

500
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: no one else in sports media did that, And that's

501
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 1: that's my niche for sports media. Go, yeah, the Colts

502
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: will kill the Jags in the final week, though New

503
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: England they'll kill Miami in the final week, and but yeah,

504
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: that's fair. Sign makes a good point, Like people go

505
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 1: on these studio shows. They don't say anything for thirty minutes,

506
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: and yet the media makes a huge deal about who's

507
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: hosting the studio show, who's on the studio show, who's

508
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: the analyst, this person is leaving the studio show. These

509
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 1: are not huge viewership opportunities. Sometimes it feels like the

510
00:27:54,720 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: studio shows matter to the executives who produced them, in

511
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: the league's that are watching them, and the rest of

512
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,199
Speaker 1: the fans could take them, relieve them. And what is

513
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: your feeling on studio shows versus their and their impact

514
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: versus studio shows and the importance they have in the

515
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,199
Speaker 1: media industry. Yeah, I mean, I think you summed it up.

516
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: Everything you said that was correct. The I think the

517
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: sort of explosion of social media put a big dent

518
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: in the studio shows. You don't need to watch CBS

519
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: or Fox at twelve thirty to find out if player

520
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: X is playing or not. You get that information right

521
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: on your phone. So they're less relevant, but they're not

522
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: less relevant to the NFL. To Roger Goodell, you know,

523
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: it's all part of the package. The NFL is such

524
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: a you know, this goes into the Brady thing. You

525
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: know people are gonna say Brady's getting three seventy million

526
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 1: to call games. Well, it's not just that, like they're

527
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: gonna make him Fox, you know, they give him that

528
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: ambassador title. But like the NFL likes having Tom Brady

529
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: as part of their organization and calling games. It was

530
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: you know, think about this. I've I've said, I've talked

531
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: about this so many times. When they came up several

532
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,479
Speaker 1: years ago when the NFL decided they would do Thursday

533
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: Night every single week and NBC got the package, NBC

534
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: wanted to use Mike Tariko on the games, was an

535
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: excellent broadcaster, and the NFL said no, they wanted Al Michael's.

536
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: They wanted their NBC's top team calling the games. The

537
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: the NFL cares about the um presentation of it all.

538
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: So that's where the pregame shows are important. And I

539
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: do think I don't want to just say they're completely useless.

540
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: I think a lot of them do really good interviews.

541
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: I think some news comes out of them every now

542
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: and then. Um, from that standpoint, but yeah, like a

543
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 1: lot of things in media that social media has taken

544
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: a bat and put a big dent in the importance

545
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: of it. Studio show, do you think tom Brady has

546
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: changed everything now with sports me or is that just

547
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: a one off? Is he just so unique? Yeah? I

548
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: think it's a well. I mean he's the greatest quarterback

549
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: whoever played the game, So it's a one off. No

550
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: one else can bring any of that value that he brings.

551
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 1: You know, he's a guy I talk about this a lot.

552
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,719
Speaker 1: He's a guy who brings in the fringe fan. There

553
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 1: are people who don't care about the NFL. They know

554
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,719
Speaker 1: who Tom Brady is. There are very few athletes who

555
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: fit into you know, Lebron obviously would fit into that

556
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: mold um. You know, his wife being an international model,

557
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 1: brings in people who may not care. So his reach,

558
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: he's got reach, and he's got credibility. He's and I

559
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: think since he got out of New England he's got

560
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: some personality. So I totally get what Fox is doing there.

561
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: But you're gonna see him. I mean Fox, I want

562
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: to five. You know, Fox will use him to promote

563
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 1: college football games, MLB game. He you'll see him. They're

564
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: not just gonna have them called sixteen games and hand

565
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: them three million dollars and say, you know, thanks for

566
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: your work. He's though, you'll see a lot of him

567
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 1: all over the Fox properties. My last question for you,

568
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 1: you've covered media for a while and you started s

569
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: I sort of doing a lot of pop culture type

570
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: stuff and connecting sports in the wider universe. If you

571
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: weren't covering media in today's landscape, where do you think

572
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: the biggest opportunity is. It does seem like it's in

573
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: the gambling world. I mean, you know FanDuel, DraftKings, It's Caesar's.

574
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: They're all hiring and making commercials. Listen, you want to

575
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: get into anything related to the NFL. It's a stable

576
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: company as there is. I think that's a good way

577
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: to go. This is such a time to where I

578
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: don't even know if you need to be attached to

579
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: a big company. We're seeing so many people with their

580
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: own niche. Now this is not good for Simon. But

581
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: you can stay away from a big company, but you're

582
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: gonna have to be doing wacky videos all day long.

583
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: You have to be on every single social media platform

584
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: all day long. I feel like there's this trend where,

585
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: like so many media companies, and even if you're not

586
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 1: with the media, even if your own brand, like so

587
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: much content is just taking the phone putting it here,

588
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: hitting play and screaming into the thing and making a

589
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: video like I I would call myself if had to

590
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,239
Speaker 1: do that. I'm so happy I've avoided having to do that.

591
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: But you know, that's where it's at at this moment,

592
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: So that's what you have to do if you're starting out.

593
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: I think we're all going to succumb at some point

594
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: to silliness. Jimmy Traina, do you still think I'm anti gambling?

595
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: I need to know this because I don't know. I

596
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: need to see going forward how you're treating it. I

597
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: might be colored by a couple of comments about the

598
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: proliferation of gambling media. I mean of gambling ads, but

599
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: I hate all ads just for the records. Like you

600
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: might write for s I, but you could just as

601
00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: easily have been writing for The New York Post in

602
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: two You know what I mean, And I mean that

603
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: as a I mean that as a compliment. I am

604
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: a I romanticize that era. I think the writers, then,

605
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: the characters, then the culture then of media and sports

606
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: writing specifically. Obviously it's different in today, is better in

607
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, but I think about it back

608
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: then as sort of the epitome of what it used

609
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: to be. So I say that with love and affection.

610
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 1: So oftentimes I think it just might be like you've

611
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: got a particular point of view based on who you

612
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: are and how you approach things, and so that's what

613
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: might come across. Yeah, I just I just the anti

614
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: gambling label. I just don't like it. Listen, feedback is

615
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 1: a gift. Now you know what you can improve on.

616
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: Part of me wishes I was anti gambling. I'd have

617
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: a lot of if I was. But you know, I've

618
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: been betting since college. Definitely not anti gamble. I just

619
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: want that out there for the record. I actually get

620
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: shipp from people on Twitter like you shouldn't be promoting gambling.

621
00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: It's an addiction, people get in trouble, blah blah blah.

622
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: So I'm getting it. This is typical of today's media.

623
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: You get both sides of it. You get it from everywhere. Man,

624
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 1: you can't please us all, and we're all gonna take

625
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 1: one slice of what we saw and decide that is

626
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,439
Speaker 1: the perspective that we believe in. And nothing is going

627
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 1: to change my mind. Yeah, I said recently too, like

628
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: I think I said on my podcast, like I hate

629
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: the summer like July and August to be the two

630
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: worst months of the year. I need that. Give me

631
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 1: to that first college football game. That's all I care about.

632
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 1: Just please don't call me ant we are about forty

633
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: three days away. Excellent, excellent Jimmy Trainer Train of Thoughts

634
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 1: SI Media podcast decidedly a lover of all things gambling.

635
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming on the podcast. For Simon Hunter,

636
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: for Matt Mitchell, I am Chad Millman. Download the podcast

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Speaker 1: from a podcast from Spotify. Whatever you get your podcasts,

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Speaker 1: give us five stars, say whatever you want. Feedback is

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Speaker 1: a gift. Until next time. I love you, um