WEBVTT - How Psychopaths Work 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:04.600 Welcome to stuff you should know from how Stuff Works 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:14.280 dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. Josh Clark, 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:18.720 there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry, and we're here 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:23.119 to manipulate you into learning something new. You're trying to 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:26.599 use your least psychopath voice that you have. Yeah, but 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:29.520 it's having the opposite effect I'm trying for, isn't it. 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:33.920 You're not full like anyone. Well, you just made a 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:41.559 powerful enemy. Oh how you doing. I'm good, I'm feeling 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:45.839 quite quite good. I like this one. This is this 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:49.080 one's gonna have it all, you know what I mean? Psychology, 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:56.400 disputed psychology, prison murder, Yeah, a little serial killer action. Yeah. 0:00:56.440 --> 0:00:59.280 We can't not mention at least Hollywood, the d S, 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:04.320 m uh, contradictions in terms all sorts of stuff, the Bible, 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:09.840 China yeah, wait, how does Oh yeah, okay, I forgot 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:16.880 about those parts. So we're talking psychopathy, yeah, which I 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:20.600 mean people say, well, what's the difference between a psychopath 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:24.160 and a sociopath. We'll get to that. By psychopath, don't 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:26.880 you mean psychotic? We'll get to that too. Keep his 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:31.200 pants on, psychopath, just buckle in. Yeah, And if you 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:33.760 think you know everything there is to know about psychopaths, Well, 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:37.280 you may be surprised. There's a lot, la, la lot 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:42.360 of misconceptions out there about psychopaths about exactly what constitutes 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:44.760 a psychopath, or what they act like, or how easy 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:49.280 they are to recognize um. And it turns out this 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:54.640 article actually points out that a lot of the people 0:01:54.680 --> 0:02:01.840 who tend to lead other people sometimes have psychopath ethic qualities, like, 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:05.480 for example, obviously you would call Hitler a psychopath. I 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:09.400 think just about everybody would write, but I guess from 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:14.280 studying them posthumous Lee and remotely UM guys like Teddy 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:18.160 Roosevelt JFK. But I'm sure basically every president that's ever 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:22.760 been president of the United States exhibits some psychopathic qualities, right, 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:26.840 and some because some actually can be considered useful in 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:31.799 the right context, right, like immunity distress or fearlessness, or 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:35.920 the ability to influence others. These are pretty handy things 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:40.279 to have if you're a politician. But just because you are, 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:43.639 you your your reaction to stress is far lower than 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:47.280 the average person, or you know you have an ability 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:49.960 to charm other people thanto doing it you want. It 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:53.040 doesn't automatically make you a psychopath. And the reason why 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:55.840 it doesn't automatically make your psychopatha is because there is 0:02:55.880 --> 0:03:00.680 a spectrum of psychopathy and there's a threshold where below 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:03.400 the threshold you may have some of these qualities or 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:07.160 traits of psychopathy, but you're not a psychopath. At that 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:11.600 thresholder above, though, you would be considered a psychopath. And 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:13.960 if that is the case, if you are a full 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:19.160 blown psychopath, you have a very specific set of characteristics 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:23.360 that very much separate you from the average person in 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:31.600 some extraordinarily scary ways. Yeah, potentially, yes, if psychopaths um 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:34.040 exist in this form at all. There's a lot of 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:37.400 debate about that as well. Yeah. So uh, if you 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:42.400 think if you have a hundred friends, uh, science estimates 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:47.320 that one of those people is a psychopath. Yeah, I 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:50.120 saw that figure. So one percent of the general population, 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:55.000 So as many as three million psychopaths United States States 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:57.800 in about seventy million worldwide, and only I think, what 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:02.200 is it about of those are in the prison population? 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:09.640 So okay, people, people, Uh, the majority of prisoners aren't psychopaths, 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:14.280 and the majority of psychopaths aren't in prison, which means 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:18.080 they're all walking among us. Yeah, and it doesn't necessarily 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:19.920 mean that they aren't in prison because they haven't been 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:23.000 caught yet. There's a lot of what are known as 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:27.960 high functioning psychopaths that are full, full on psychopaths, but 0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:31.760 they just don't exhibit the kind of traits that would 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:35.680 get you locked up in prison. Instead, they exhibit, um, 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:38.560 what we would call white collar crimes, which aren't prosecuted 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:42.520 in the United head fund managers basically, Well, it is 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:44.839 funny because I mean I do make that joke, but 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:49.680 they said that they think as many as perhaps of 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:52.920 like people in the finance industry could be psychopaths. Yeah, 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:56.440 there was a study that found that. Sure. Yeah, and 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:58.400 and but that makes a pretty good point, like there's 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:02.280 some in the right contact. Yeah, being a psychopath can 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:05.680 actually be useful to you. All right, Well, let's go 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:09.920 back to Aristotle. Like most things, he's the he's the 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:15.360 the tissue that binds this with the cricket farming episode. Correct. Interestingly, so, 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:17.240 I know in cricket Farm when we talked about his 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:21.279 pillow talk and great back in those days when he 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:27.680 was pillow talking, he had a student name Theophrastus, and 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:33.880 Theophrastus was a four century BC philosopher, and they they 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:37.400 talked about psychopaths. They called them unscrupulous at the time, 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:39.640 but what they were talking about was what we would 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:45.400 now refer to psychopaths. And everything from uh the Chinese, 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:51.600 to biblical stories to mythology and Greece and Rome the Shakespeare. Like, 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:56.479 it's just rife through history, literary history of people writing 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:59.960 about what we would now call a psychopath. And it's 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:02.720 not just the West either. I mean, like we call 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:09.000 them psychopaths here, apparently the Yoruba of southwestern Nigeria call 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:15.400 them ironicon, the yuk of Eskimos call them kun langhetta um. 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:21.440 They they seem to be around, like you said, one 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:25.080 percent of the global population, So they're not like culturally bound. 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:28.719 It's not a culturally bound condition, but it does seem 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:36.640 contextual in that psychopaths are contrary to society. They don't 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:40.520 follow the social norms that keep everybody else in line. 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:46.239 That typically arise out of things like empathy and feeling 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:49.840 bad for other people and seeing other people as their 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:56.240 own sentient um selves. Yeah, and not not just bags 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:59.600 of meat to be manipulated, yeah, to your own ends. 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:05.240 So psychopaths make appearances throughout history throughout literature. Um, you 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:08.840 mentioned the Bible, So um Kine is widely referred to 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:13.200 as an early psychopath, the first psychopath, maybe so, at 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:16.960 least in the in the Judaeo Christian tradition. Right. But 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:20.120 if we if we fast forward to eighteenth century France, 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:24.960 like the beginnings the modern beginnings of our Western at 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:29.480 least conception of psychopaths were found in the hands of 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:34.840 a French physician named Philippe Pine. Yeah. He was one 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:38.360 of the first professional medical professionals to talk about this, 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:43.080 and he referred to them as uh maniac songs, delile 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:49.120 nice insanity without delirium. Um. They've gone by other names 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:55.360 since then, uh, and descriptions from moral derangement, moral insanity, 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:59.600 rational madness, right, and that actually describes like a type 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:03.360 of insane entity where you're like morally and even maybe 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:08.800 behaviorally deranged, but you're not cognitively impaired, and your your 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:11.680 sense of your touch with reality is your grip on 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:14.880 reality is totally normal as well. Yeah. Like kind of 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:18.000 the whole point is they are walking among us and 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:21.640 by all accounts are usually very a charming kind of 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:29.559 quote normal unquote seeming individuals. Predatory. Yeah, and then finally 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:35.040 those a German psychiatrist named J. L. A. Cox and 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:39.840 he said, I have the term. It is psycho pastiche 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:42.600 I mean suffering soul. And that's where the actual word 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:47.600 finally psychopathy was born, right, and then I think into 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:53.040 the thirties or beginning in the thirties, sociopathy took over 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:56.960 a place psychopathy for a couple of reasons. One um, 0:08:57.000 --> 0:08:59.960 from about the thirties to the seventies, there's a site 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:04.240 idea that psychopaths should be called sociopaths because it was 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:09.760 um nurture rather than nature that accounted for their anti 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:14.160 social behavior. Um that it was say a bad mother, 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:21.559 cold father, or absent father, something like that. That that 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:26.000 that was the basis of sociopathic behavior. The other reason 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:30.360 that sociopathy became widely used was because people were getting 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:34.600 it confused with psychosis. Psychopathy and psychosis they're not at 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:37.760 all the same thing. Psychosis means it's an umbrella term 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:42.319 for um, a loss of a grip on reality, delusions 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:45.880 basically right, and psychosis can be brought on by any 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:50.319 number of things like from dementia UM to lack of 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:53.920 sleep to schizophrenia. So psychosis is a condition where your 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:59.040 grip on reality is tenuous at best. Psychopaths are full. 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:04.160 Their grip on reality is totally fine. It's just again 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:07.120 it goes back to this idea that it's a moral arrangement. 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:10.360 They have no morals, they have no scruples, they have 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:14.400 no conscience, is another way that it's usually put. But 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:17.080 they're they're they're not delusional at all. Their grip on 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:20.760 reality is totally fine. Yeah, Like in a psychopathic brain, 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:25.640 there is literally a physical abnormality in the brain, right right, 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:30.200 And that's a huge, huge new development like that, And 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:34.160 as a result, sociopathy is quickly losing favor as an 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:37.520 interchangeable term for psychopathy. Yeah, I mean the terms over 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:42.440 the years of we're mostly interchangeable. Uh. In n D 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:45.160 s M, which we've talked about a lot, the Diagnostic 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:49.480 and Statistical Manual Mental disorders UM, I think they called it. 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:53.440 They said, no more sociopathy, let's call it anti social 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:58.040 personality disorder a sp D UM. And you know, the 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:03.000 terminology is important because you shouldn't just use two different 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:06.560 things interchangeably to mean the same thing, right, No, it's 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:12.240 true and with UM psychiatrists and psychologists who study psychopathy 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:16.960 in particular, especially guy named Robert Hare who was continuing 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:19.600 on the work of a guy named Hervey Cleckley who 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:26.000 did his work Chuck in Augusta, Georgia. UM said no, no, no, like, 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:30.360 you can't just say psychopaths are just part of an 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:36.040 antisocial personality disorder, which is what the d s M does, right, Um. 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:40.439 And the reason why is because they've what they've concluded 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:45.400 is that they're basically two aspects to two different facets, 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:49.520 is what they call them. To being a psychopath, there's 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:54.920 primary psychopathy and secondary psychopathy or factor one and factor 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:57.480 too psychopathy. Right, Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask you. 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:01.280 So Hervey great name by the way, Herbie Click. He's 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:04.520 a guy from Augusta, and he's the one who wrote 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:07.320 a book called The Mask of Sanity, UM, which is 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:12.280 sort of the foundation of modern psychopathic research. But he 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:13.760 was the one that came up with factor one and 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:16.400 two and is that basically just what we now call 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:19.680 primary and secondary. He came up with these the first 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:24.240 descriptors that are still kind of in in use today, 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:29.880 where UM things like UM that they they lack social responsibility, 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:34.719 but they're usually highly intelligent. UM. They're very irresponsible. They 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:40.760 don't um. They they have a winner take all um attitude. UM. 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:45.640 He spelled out like sixteen character traits um. And he 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:48.360 was basically the father of psychopathy. It was Hair who 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:51.440 came up with the two factors, or more to the point, 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:56.280 they emerged from his psychopathy checklist that he developed back 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.640 and I think the late seventies early eighties. So with 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:03.959 fact their one chuck that relates to like interpersonal behavior, 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:09.800 so the idea that psychopaths are very charming, um, but 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:14.400 that they also lack remorse. This is all this, this 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:17.840 is all considered factor one or primary psychopathy. And they 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:21.319 actually think that this is where um, you know, psychopathy 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:25.560 is rooted. It's a it's the the seeing other people 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:31.760 as means to an end and were using people in 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:36.360 that sense without any regard for the other person's feelings 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:40.040 or the consequences that has on their life and then 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:45.240 genuinely lacking remorse. These are classic traits of psychopathy, right, 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:48.319 But that's just one facet of it. There's another facet, 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:54.040 factor two, which is the the behavioral aspect of psychopathy. 0:13:54.080 --> 0:14:00.000 And factor two relates to things like impulsivity, uh, sexual promiscuity, 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:05.800 parasitic lifestyle. And so if psychopathy is a spectrum that 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:09.760 we all potentially could be on the psychopath spectrum, but 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:13.079 we would most of us fall below that threshold, then 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:15.679 the factor one in factor two are like a spectrum 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.679 within a spectrum to where on one side you have 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:23.640 high functioning psychopaths like CEO, say, and then on the 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:28.000 other side you have very low functioning factor two psychopaths 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:33.240 like a truck stop serial killer, right who's getting sloppy um. 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:35.800 And then in between you would have, you know, a mixture. 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:38.960 But you can kind of lean more towards the factor 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:42.640 one psychopathy, you could lean more towards the factor to psychopathy. 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:47.280 But the factor too psychopathy relates almost exclusively to the 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:52.280 d s M s Antisocial personality disorder criteria, and so 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:56.600 therefore the d s M is ignoring factor one psychopathy. 0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:58.800 And so therefore really the only way you can be 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:05.560 diagnosed as a psycho path is through the hair psychopath checklist. Um. 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:10.800 So there's almost like this competing field that's going up 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:13.840 against the d s M as far as the study 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:16.680 of psychopaths is concerned. You you take the rest of 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:20.320 the episode, all right, Well, let's take a break so 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:23.320 I can memorize all this stuff, and uh, we'll come 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:26.320 back and talk a little bit about demographics and that 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:54.000 hair test right after this. Alright, so we're back with 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:59.720 talks about demographics. Um, Studying psychopathy and psychopaths is tricky 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:03.000 to say the least, because, uh, this is there is 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:06.400 no Um, you can't well we'll talk a little bit 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:08.440 about the brain, but there is no you know, you 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:10.560 can't hook someone up to a machine that will spit 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:14.560 out a diagnosis of psychopath So you're gonna have to 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:17.640 get someone who self reports this stuff, which you're not 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:20.600 going to see a lot because no one usually likes 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:23.600 to think of themselves that way. Um, but most of 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:28.000 the data they have right now is gathered from psychiatric 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:32.560 examinations of criminals. Yeah, so there's really like a as 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:37.240 a sheltered view of psychopaths. We have just a limited 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:42.320 snapshot of the of the full spectrum of psychopathy. Because yeah, 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:44.280 if you're a psychopath, you're not going to go in 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:46.760 to look for help. You think you're better than everybody else. 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:49.960 So the very traits that make you a psychopath would 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:54.240 make you feel like you need the opposite of psychiatric help. Yeah, 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:57.280 like what are you saying, I'm I'm winning in life exactly. 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:01.160 Uh So as far as age goes, when they analyzed, um, 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:04.600 some of the results of some of these examinations prisoners, 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:09.359 they did show that it seems like psychopathic traits might 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:13.760 decrease some as you get older. They don't know why, um, 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:17.640 but it is. There's a lot of um controversy about 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:22.439 whether or not you can diagnose a kid as a psychopath. Uh. 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:25.919 Sometimes you might see some traits that a child expresses 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:29.879 that you might associate with psychopathy. But legally, technically you 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:34.440 can't diagnose a child as a psychopath. And just because 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:37.680 you might have some psychopathic tendencies as a kid, doesn't 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:39.080 mean you're going to grow up to be that way 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:41.560 as well. No, but they do have as part of 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:47.119 that anti social personality disorder spectrum. Um, they have diagnosed 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:51.240 these four kids like oppositional defiant disorder. Yeah, which seems 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:55.879 to be basically like as a factor to psychopath diagnosis 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:59.880 for children. Um. But yeah, I thinks they just don't 0:17:59.880 --> 0:18:02.320 like to use that word for kids. No. No, And 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:06.360 and like you should be very careful with labeling clinically, 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:11.159 labeling somebody a psychopath just because of the them the 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.480 stigma associated with it. Yeah, Like can you imagine seeing 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:19.480 parents down and saying, well, um, Francis is a psychopath, 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:25.199 Like you're six year old is a psychopath? Not good? No, 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:30.800 they there's probably a company who specializes in that because 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:33.040 nobody else wants to do like up in the air 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:36.280 with people paid to come in and fire people, right exactly, Yeah, 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:37.960 I would if it was George Clooney to be a 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:42.600 different deal. Right, your child's a psychopath. Here's some literature 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:46.560 on that, and George and some fine tequila, right is 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:49.040 it fine? Yeah, it's good. But man, he sold that 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:54.399 thing for a billion dollars. You believe that? No? No, 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:59.400 like George Clooney rolling in dough yeah, rolling in handsome 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:03.320 billion dollar tequila, I mean charm and he sold his 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:09.040 tequila company for a billion bucks. He's a psychopath. I 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:10.679 feel like we talked about that before, have we? Is 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:14.320 that possible? No? We talked about him being smug. Oh 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:17.080 you did, sir, not me? Right, Well, you said, oh 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:19.560 I know he's so smug. No, I didn't because I 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:25.000 want to date him. Uh So when it comes to race, um, 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:29.280 it gets even more controversial because there have been analyzes 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:32.679 that tried to link higher rates of the disorder to 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:39.359 Native American communities African American people, and most psychiatrists have 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:41.719 come out and say, you know what, this is really 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:47.360 not taking into account socio economic factors and it's pretty racist. Yeah. 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:51.040 There was this guy named Richard Lynn who wrote back 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:54.479 in the early two thousands a journal article about that 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:59.440 and tried to basically say that the order of UM psychopathy, 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:03.080 as far as prevalence is concerned, is highest in Blacks 0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:06.640 and Native Americans, and then followed by Hispanics and then 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:09.639 whites and then East Asians. And he said that it 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:13.240 had everything to do with evolution, and he totally left 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:16.840 out the fact that Hispanics are actually just five hundred 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:22.119 years or so removed from Caucasian Spanish people. Uh, and 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:27.520 that UM East Asians are the UM are tied genetically 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:30.960 to Native Americans over the last like ten thousand years 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:34.160 or so. So people just had fun kind of trashing 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:36.440 this guy's ideas, and he was like, you might also 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:40.439 want to read my manifesto on eugenics, right exactly. Uh. 0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:45.080 One thing is clear though, when it comes to gender, UM, 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:52.160 they're definitely more psychopathic men than women. This dude. Yeah, yeah, 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:54.160 all of the numbers bear it out, like this guy 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:56.919 is the guy who The people who say no, it 0:20:56.960 --> 0:21:00.760 has to do with races seemed to be total crackpots. Um. 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:04.200 But the people who say that there is a difference 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:08.160 in gender, they're backed up by numbers for sure. Um. 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:14.280 Studies show that that women definitely have lower occurrences as psychopathy. 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:19.720 But it has been pointed out that perhaps what women 0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:26.160 psychopaths their behavior, that their behavior manifests itself differently than 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:31.320 male psychopaths, and that the psychopathy criteria is geared more 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:37.160 towards males and is missing female psychopaths. So for example, like, um, 0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:39.080 you know you think of a psychopath, you think of 0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:41.600 like a high functioning one, say like a CEO or 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:45.639 a Patrick Bateman type or something. Right, that's like a 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:49.000 classic psychopath. But what if what if there are just 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:53.720 as many women's psychopaths, but they're like um, Joan Crawford 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:56.040 and mommy dearist or something like that, you know, like 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:59.800 they just they're they're the way that they behave as 0:21:59.840 --> 0:22:04.000 a psychopath manifests itself differently than how men do. That's 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:06.879 it's a theory. It's not necessarily true, but that's what 0:22:07.000 --> 0:22:10.560 some people say. Well in the waters are so muddy 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:12.840 with how men and women think of each other in 0:22:12.920 --> 0:22:16.119 their roles in society that it's bound to play a 0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:18.640 part here and how that gets all mixed up, you know. Yeah, 0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:23.080 that's uh well, and then you know there are like 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:25.399 the Eileen Warnses of the world as well like that. 0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:29.760 I know there aren't many female serial killers, but ah, 0:22:30.040 --> 0:22:33.280 there have been some, for sure, but there's definitely not. 0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:35.800 I mean, when you look at the list of serial 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:39.920 killers you here, you see way more Ted Bundy's and 0:22:39.920 --> 0:22:46.120 and who is the guy b t K Yeah, Dennis Rader. Yeah, 0:22:46.160 --> 0:22:47.840 there are more of those dudes out there than Eileen 0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:52.119 Warns is for sure. That's I mean, that's as far 0:22:52.160 --> 0:22:55.280 as the numbers suggest. Yes, that's true. But I think 0:22:55.320 --> 0:22:59.399 it's extremely interesting that, like we're we've got the blinders 0:22:59.400 --> 0:23:02.320 on and are just looking at one set of behaviors 0:23:02.359 --> 0:23:05.640 for psychopaths and are totally missing an entire population out 0:23:05.640 --> 0:23:09.320 there that are women's psychopaths. That's just fascinating to me. 0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:13.080 So should we talk about the psychopathy checklist? Yeah, we 0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:15.159 kind of have to. Yeah, I mean we mentioned a 0:23:15.160 --> 0:23:19.760 little bit of it. Um, through herby Herbie Cleckley. That's 0:23:19.760 --> 0:23:24.040 gotta be money hotel name, um, Herbie Cleckley's work. And 0:23:24.040 --> 0:23:28.560 then hair is the man who is responsible for the 0:23:28.600 --> 0:23:34.159 modern um, the modern checklists and tests that people still 0:23:34.200 --> 0:23:37.960 give other people. Yeah, and it's pretty simple. Um, well 0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:42.080 it's it's not simple. Well, it's extensive for sure. Yeah. Simple, 0:23:42.160 --> 0:23:45.440 and that there are twenty characteristics and when you take 0:23:45.480 --> 0:23:48.199 the test, you either give yourself a two if you 0:23:48.280 --> 0:23:51.560 have one of these characteristics or a one if you 0:23:52.000 --> 0:23:54.679 may or may not. And then at the end you 0:23:54.800 --> 0:23:58.080 do a little math. And is it thirty and above 0:23:59.240 --> 0:24:02.040 out of forty you qualify as a psychopath? Yeah, I saw. 0:24:02.240 --> 0:24:06.000 It depends on what country you're in. Um. But seriously, 0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:11.040 but um, somewhere like between twenty six and thirty over 0:24:11.119 --> 0:24:14.480 that you are probably you're probably a psychopath, or you 0:24:14.520 --> 0:24:17.400 are you you qualify as a psychopath. Yes, So here 0:24:17.400 --> 0:24:21.480 are those twenty characteristics. Uh. And you can either just 0:24:21.560 --> 0:24:24.160 listen to these or you can have fun thinking about 0:24:24.200 --> 0:24:27.920 your own self and doing a little math along the way. 0:24:28.800 --> 0:24:30.560 I did math on mine earlier, and I'm like, all right, 0:24:30.560 --> 0:24:32.600 I'm not a psychopath. And you can also if it 0:24:32.640 --> 0:24:36.880 doesn't apply. Uh that you score a zero on any 0:24:36.880 --> 0:24:39.840 of the questions. Correct. Uh. So we start with a 0:24:39.840 --> 0:24:43.880 glibness and superficiality, and I think these aren't things like 0:24:44.359 --> 0:24:46.600 you know, everybody can be a little superficial every now 0:24:46.600 --> 0:24:51.080 and then. I think these are personality traits that you own, right, 0:24:51.119 --> 0:24:55.840 wouldn't you say? Alright? So glibness and superficialities one grandiosity, 0:24:56.440 --> 0:25:03.600 need for stimulation, pathological lying uh, cunning and manipulativeness, lack 0:25:03.640 --> 0:25:08.280 of remorse or guilt uh, an emotional shallowness. I want 0:25:08.320 --> 0:25:11.760 to take the rest. YEP, callousness and lack of empathy. 0:25:11.880 --> 0:25:19.280 Big one. Parasitic lifestyle, poor behavioral controls, sure sexual promisecurity, 0:25:19.280 --> 0:25:26.639 early behavior problems, lack of realistic long term goals, impulsivity, irresponsibility, 0:25:26.920 --> 0:25:31.280 you take the rest, failure to accept that responsibility, multiple 0:25:31.320 --> 0:25:36.880 marriages that just seemed unfair, um, juvenile delinquency and revocation 0:25:37.000 --> 0:25:41.160 of conditional release, which is like a recentivism or violating 0:25:41.160 --> 0:25:45.000 your parole. Yeah, and committing a variety of crimes. Yeah. 0:25:45.040 --> 0:25:46.920 So some of those you are like, oh, I can 0:25:46.960 --> 0:25:50.560 be callous and I don't I can be impulsive and 0:25:50.640 --> 0:25:54.159 don't have realistic long term goals. Like, don't sweat it, 0:25:54.240 --> 0:25:57.080 just do the math. Like a thirty out of forty 0:25:57.320 --> 0:26:00.159 is a pretty that means you're scoring on on a 0:26:00.200 --> 0:26:02.960 lot of these, right. But so this, these are the 0:26:03.000 --> 0:26:06.919 twenty characteristics that the checklist is getting at. The checklist 0:26:07.080 --> 0:26:11.480 is actually hundreds of questions long and takes between two 0:26:11.480 --> 0:26:15.160 and five hours to administer and can only be administered 0:26:15.160 --> 0:26:19.960 by a highly trained psychologist, right, who's trained in administering 0:26:20.000 --> 0:26:23.240 the tests for a cheap website. So right, So it's 0:26:23.240 --> 0:26:26.080 not like the psychologist is like, did you have early 0:26:26.119 --> 0:26:30.440 behavior problems? Uh, maybe that's a one. There's like the 0:26:30.680 --> 0:26:33.560 dozens of questions for each of those things, right, And 0:26:33.640 --> 0:26:35.639 so when you when you put the score together for 0:26:35.680 --> 0:26:39.960 all of them, if you score over a thirty, um, 0:26:40.080 --> 0:26:43.080 you're a psychopath as far as psychology the field of 0:26:43.119 --> 0:26:45.760 psychology is concerned. Yeah, and you you know, hopefully you 0:26:45.760 --> 0:26:49.200 are a functioning psychopath who um is getting along in 0:26:49.240 --> 0:26:53.000 the world. But it can also manage best itself. As 0:26:53.119 --> 0:26:56.440 Ted Bundy. So let's say you are a psychopath and 0:26:56.520 --> 0:27:00.119 you're not getting along in the world. Um. One of 0:27:00.160 --> 0:27:05.159 the one of the characteristics of psychopaths is something called externalization, 0:27:05.720 --> 0:27:10.280 where you blame others or everything else but yourself for 0:27:10.400 --> 0:27:16.240 your own problems. Um. But if you are a psychopath, 0:27:16.960 --> 0:27:19.960 and you're more so if you're not getting along very 0:27:19.960 --> 0:27:21.959 well in the world, you're probably more like a factor 0:27:22.000 --> 0:27:25.480 to psychopath. If you are getting along well in the world, 0:27:25.480 --> 0:27:27.880 you got a nice job or whatever, a family, all 0:27:27.960 --> 0:27:32.119 that you've got, your mask of sanity is cletly put it. Um, 0:27:32.280 --> 0:27:36.400 you you'd be more like a factor one psychopath. Um, 0:27:36.480 --> 0:27:41.840