1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff you should know from how Stuff Works 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. Josh Clark, 3 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry, and we're here 4 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:23,119 Speaker 1: to manipulate you into learning something new. You're trying to 5 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 1: use your least psychopath voice that you have. Yeah, but 6 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: it's having the opposite effect I'm trying for, isn't it. 7 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 1: You're not full like anyone. Well, you just made a 8 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 1: powerful enemy. Oh how you doing. I'm good, I'm feeling 9 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 1: quite quite good. I like this one. This is this 10 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: one's gonna have it all, you know what I mean? Psychology, 11 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: disputed psychology, prison murder, Yeah, a little serial killer action. Yeah. 12 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: We can't not mention at least Hollywood, the d S, 13 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:04,320 Speaker 1: m uh, contradictions in terms all sorts of stuff, the Bible, 14 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: China yeah, wait, how does Oh yeah, okay, I forgot 15 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: about those parts. So we're talking psychopathy, yeah, which I 16 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: mean people say, well, what's the difference between a psychopath 17 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: and a sociopath. We'll get to that. By psychopath, don't 18 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: you mean psychotic? We'll get to that too. Keep his 19 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: pants on, psychopath, just buckle in. Yeah, And if you 20 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 1: think you know everything there is to know about psychopaths, Well, 21 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: you may be surprised. There's a lot, la, la lot 22 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: of misconceptions out there about psychopaths about exactly what constitutes 23 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: a psychopath, or what they act like, or how easy 24 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: they are to recognize um. And it turns out this 25 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: article actually points out that a lot of the people 26 00:01:54,680 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: who tend to lead other people sometimes have psychopath ethic qualities, like, 27 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: for example, obviously you would call Hitler a psychopath. I 28 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: think just about everybody would write, but I guess from 29 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: studying them posthumous Lee and remotely UM guys like Teddy 30 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: Roosevelt JFK. But I'm sure basically every president that's ever 31 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: been president of the United States exhibits some psychopathic qualities, right, 32 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: and some because some actually can be considered useful in 33 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:31,799 Speaker 1: the right context, right, like immunity distress or fearlessness, or 34 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: the ability to influence others. These are pretty handy things 35 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:40,279 Speaker 1: to have if you're a politician. But just because you are, 36 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 1: you your your reaction to stress is far lower than 37 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: the average person, or you know you have an ability 38 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 1: to charm other people thanto doing it you want. It 39 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: doesn't automatically make you a psychopath. And the reason why 40 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: it doesn't automatically make your psychopatha is because there is 41 00:02:55,880 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: a spectrum of psychopathy and there's a threshold where below 42 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: the threshold you may have some of these qualities or 43 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: traits of psychopathy, but you're not a psychopath. At that 44 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: thresholder above, though, you would be considered a psychopath. And 45 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: if that is the case, if you are a full 46 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: blown psychopath, you have a very specific set of characteristics 47 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 1: that very much separate you from the average person in 48 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: some extraordinarily scary ways. Yeah, potentially, yes, if psychopaths um 49 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: exist in this form at all. There's a lot of 50 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: debate about that as well. Yeah. So uh, if you 51 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: think if you have a hundred friends, uh, science estimates 52 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: that one of those people is a psychopath. Yeah, I 53 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: saw that figure. So one percent of the general population, 54 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: So as many as three million psychopaths United States States 55 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: in about seventy million worldwide, and only I think, what 56 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: is it about of those are in the prison population? 57 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: So okay, people, people, Uh, the majority of prisoners aren't psychopaths, 58 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: and the majority of psychopaths aren't in prison, which means 59 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: they're all walking among us. Yeah, and it doesn't necessarily 60 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: mean that they aren't in prison because they haven't been 61 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: caught yet. There's a lot of what are known as 62 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: high functioning psychopaths that are full, full on psychopaths, but 63 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: they just don't exhibit the kind of traits that would 64 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: get you locked up in prison. Instead, they exhibit, um, 65 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: what we would call white collar crimes, which aren't prosecuted 66 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: in the United head fund managers basically, Well, it is 67 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 1: funny because I mean I do make that joke, but 68 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: they said that they think as many as perhaps of 69 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: like people in the finance industry could be psychopaths. Yeah, 70 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: there was a study that found that. Sure. Yeah, and 71 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: and but that makes a pretty good point, like there's 72 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 1: some in the right contact. Yeah, being a psychopath can 73 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: actually be useful to you. All right, Well, let's go 74 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: back to Aristotle. Like most things, he's the he's the 75 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: the tissue that binds this with the cricket farming episode. Correct. Interestingly, so, 76 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: I know in cricket Farm when we talked about his 77 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 1: pillow talk and great back in those days when he 78 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: was pillow talking, he had a student name Theophrastus, and 79 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: Theophrastus was a four century BC philosopher, and they they 80 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: talked about psychopaths. They called them unscrupulous at the time, 81 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: but what they were talking about was what we would 82 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: now refer to psychopaths. And everything from uh the Chinese, 83 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 1: to biblical stories to mythology and Greece and Rome the Shakespeare. Like, 84 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 1: it's just rife through history, literary history of people writing 85 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: about what we would now call a psychopath. And it's 86 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 1: not just the West either. I mean, like we call 87 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: them psychopaths here, apparently the Yoruba of southwestern Nigeria call 88 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: them ironicon, the yuk of Eskimos call them kun langhetta um. 89 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: They they seem to be around, like you said, one 90 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: percent of the global population, So they're not like culturally bound. 91 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: It's not a culturally bound condition, but it does seem 92 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: contextual in that psychopaths are contrary to society. They don't 93 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: follow the social norms that keep everybody else in line. 94 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:46,239 Speaker 1: That typically arise out of things like empathy and feeling 95 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,840 Speaker 1: bad for other people and seeing other people as their 96 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: own sentient um selves. Yeah, and not not just bags 97 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 1: of meat to be manipulated, yeah, to your own ends. 98 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: So psychopaths make appearances throughout history throughout literature. Um, you 99 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 1: mentioned the Bible, So um Kine is widely referred to 100 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: as an early psychopath, the first psychopath, maybe so, at 101 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: least in the in the Judaeo Christian tradition. Right. But 102 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: if we if we fast forward to eighteenth century France, 103 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: like the beginnings the modern beginnings of our Western at 104 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: least conception of psychopaths were found in the hands of 105 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: a French physician named Philippe Pine. Yeah. He was one 106 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: of the first professional medical professionals to talk about this, 107 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: and he referred to them as uh maniac songs, delile 108 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: nice insanity without delirium. Um. They've gone by other names 109 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: since then, uh, and descriptions from moral derangement, moral insanity, 110 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: rational madness, right, and that actually describes like a type 111 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: of insane entity where you're like morally and even maybe 112 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: behaviorally deranged, but you're not cognitively impaired, and your your 113 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: sense of your touch with reality is your grip on 114 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,880 Speaker 1: reality is totally normal as well. Yeah. Like kind of 115 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: the whole point is they are walking among us and 116 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: by all accounts are usually very a charming kind of 117 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:29,559 Speaker 1: quote normal unquote seeming individuals. Predatory. Yeah, and then finally 118 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: those a German psychiatrist named J. L. A. Cox and 119 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: he said, I have the term. It is psycho pastiche 120 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: I mean suffering soul. And that's where the actual word 121 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: finally psychopathy was born, right, and then I think into 122 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: the thirties or beginning in the thirties, sociopathy took over 123 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: a place psychopathy for a couple of reasons. One um, 124 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: from about the thirties to the seventies, there's a site 125 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: idea that psychopaths should be called sociopaths because it was 126 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: um nurture rather than nature that accounted for their anti 127 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: social behavior. Um that it was say a bad mother, 128 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:21,559 Speaker 1: cold father, or absent father, something like that. That that 129 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: that was the basis of sociopathic behavior. The other reason 130 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: that sociopathy became widely used was because people were getting 131 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: it confused with psychosis. Psychopathy and psychosis they're not at 132 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: all the same thing. Psychosis means it's an umbrella term 133 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:42,319 Speaker 1: for um, a loss of a grip on reality, delusions 134 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: basically right, and psychosis can be brought on by any 135 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 1: number of things like from dementia UM to lack of 136 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: sleep to schizophrenia. So psychosis is a condition where your 137 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: grip on reality is tenuous at best. Psychopaths are full. 138 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: Their grip on reality is totally fine. It's just again 139 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: it goes back to this idea that it's a moral arrangement. 140 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: They have no morals, they have no scruples, they have 141 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: no conscience, is another way that it's usually put. But 142 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 1: they're they're they're not delusional at all. Their grip on 143 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: reality is totally fine. Yeah, Like in a psychopathic brain, 144 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: there is literally a physical abnormality in the brain, right right, 145 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 1: And that's a huge, huge new development like that, And 146 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: as a result, sociopathy is quickly losing favor as an 147 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: interchangeable term for psychopathy. Yeah, I mean the terms over 148 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: the years of we're mostly interchangeable. Uh. In n D 149 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: s M, which we've talked about a lot, the Diagnostic 150 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: and Statistical Manual Mental disorders UM, I think they called it. 151 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: They said, no more sociopathy, let's call it anti social 152 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: personality disorder a sp D UM. And you know, the 153 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: terminology is important because you shouldn't just use two different 154 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: things interchangeably to mean the same thing, right, No, it's 155 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: true and with UM psychiatrists and psychologists who study psychopathy 156 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: in particular, especially guy named Robert Hare who was continuing 157 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: on the work of a guy named Hervey Cleckley who 158 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: did his work Chuck in Augusta, Georgia. UM said no, no, no, like, 159 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: you can't just say psychopaths are just part of an 160 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: antisocial personality disorder, which is what the d s M does, right, Um. 161 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:40,439 Speaker 1: And the reason why is because they've what they've concluded 162 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: is that they're basically two aspects to two different facets, 163 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: is what they call them. To being a psychopath, there's 164 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: primary psychopathy and secondary psychopathy or factor one and factor 165 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: too psychopathy. Right, Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask you. 166 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: So Hervey great name by the way, Herbie Click. He's 167 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: a guy from Augusta, and he's the one who wrote 168 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: a book called The Mask of Sanity, UM, which is 169 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: sort of the foundation of modern psychopathic research. But he 170 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: was the one that came up with factor one and 171 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: two and is that basically just what we now call 172 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: primary and secondary. He came up with these the first 173 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: descriptors that are still kind of in in use today, 174 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: where UM things like UM that they they lack social responsibility, 175 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:34,719 Speaker 1: but they're usually highly intelligent. UM. They're very irresponsible. They 176 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: don't um. They they have a winner take all um attitude. UM. 177 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: He spelled out like sixteen character traits um. And he 178 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: was basically the father of psychopathy. It was Hair who 179 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: came up with the two factors, or more to the point, 180 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: they emerged from his psychopathy checklist that he developed back 181 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: and I think the late seventies early eighties. So with 182 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:03,959 Speaker 1: fact their one chuck that relates to like interpersonal behavior, 183 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: so the idea that psychopaths are very charming, um, but 184 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: that they also lack remorse. This is all this, this 185 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: is all considered factor one or primary psychopathy. And they 186 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:21,319 Speaker 1: actually think that this is where um, you know, psychopathy 187 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 1: is rooted. It's a it's the the seeing other people 188 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: as means to an end and were using people in 189 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: that sense without any regard for the other person's feelings 190 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: or the consequences that has on their life and then 191 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: genuinely lacking remorse. These are classic traits of psychopathy, right, 192 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,319 Speaker 1: But that's just one facet of it. There's another facet, 193 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: factor two, which is the the behavioral aspect of psychopathy. 194 00:13:54,080 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: And factor two relates to things like impulsivity, uh, sexual promiscuity, 195 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: parasitic lifestyle. And so if psychopathy is a spectrum that 196 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: we all potentially could be on the psychopath spectrum, but 197 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,079 Speaker 1: we would most of us fall below that threshold, then 198 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 1: the factor one in factor two are like a spectrum 199 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 1: within a spectrum to where on one side you have 200 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: high functioning psychopaths like CEO, say, and then on the 201 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: other side you have very low functioning factor two psychopaths 202 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: like a truck stop serial killer, right who's getting sloppy um. 203 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: And then in between you would have, you know, a mixture. 204 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: But you can kind of lean more towards the factor 205 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: one psychopathy, you could lean more towards the factor to psychopathy. 206 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: But the factor too psychopathy relates almost exclusively to the 207 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: d s M s Antisocial personality disorder criteria, and so 208 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: therefore the d s M is ignoring factor one psychopathy. 209 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: And so therefore really the only way you can be 210 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: diagnosed as a psycho path is through the hair psychopath checklist. Um. 211 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: So there's almost like this competing field that's going up 212 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: against the d s M as far as the study 213 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: of psychopaths is concerned. You you take the rest of 214 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: the episode, all right, Well, let's take a break so 215 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: I can memorize all this stuff, and uh, we'll come 216 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: back and talk a little bit about demographics and that 217 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: hair test right after this. Alright, so we're back with 218 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: talks about demographics. Um, Studying psychopathy and psychopaths is tricky 219 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: to say the least, because, uh, this is there is 220 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: no Um, you can't well we'll talk a little bit 221 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: about the brain, but there is no you know, you 222 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: can't hook someone up to a machine that will spit 223 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 1: out a diagnosis of psychopath So you're gonna have to 224 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: get someone who self reports this stuff, which you're not 225 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 1: going to see a lot because no one usually likes 226 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: to think of themselves that way. Um, but most of 227 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: the data they have right now is gathered from psychiatric 228 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: examinations of criminals. Yeah, so there's really like a as 229 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: a sheltered view of psychopaths. We have just a limited 230 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: snapshot of the of the full spectrum of psychopathy. Because yeah, 231 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: if you're a psychopath, you're not going to go in 232 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: to look for help. You think you're better than everybody else. 233 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: So the very traits that make you a psychopath would 234 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: make you feel like you need the opposite of psychiatric help. Yeah, 235 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: like what are you saying, I'm I'm winning in life exactly. 236 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: Uh So as far as age goes, when they analyzed, um, 237 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: some of the results of some of these examinations prisoners, 238 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: they did show that it seems like psychopathic traits might 239 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: decrease some as you get older. They don't know why, um, 240 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,640 Speaker 1: but it is. There's a lot of um controversy about 241 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:22,439 Speaker 1: whether or not you can diagnose a kid as a psychopath. Uh. 242 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 1: Sometimes you might see some traits that a child expresses 243 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 1: that you might associate with psychopathy. But legally, technically you 244 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 1: can't diagnose a child as a psychopath. And just because 245 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 1: you might have some psychopathic tendencies as a kid, doesn't 246 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: mean you're going to grow up to be that way 247 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: as well. No, but they do have as part of 248 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 1: that anti social personality disorder spectrum. Um, they have diagnosed 249 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: these four kids like oppositional defiant disorder. Yeah, which seems 250 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 1: to be basically like as a factor to psychopath diagnosis 251 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: for children. Um. But yeah, I thinks they just don't 252 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: like to use that word for kids. No. No, And 253 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:06,360 Speaker 1: and like you should be very careful with labeling clinically, 254 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 1: labeling somebody a psychopath just because of the them the 255 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: stigma associated with it. Yeah, Like can you imagine seeing 256 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: parents down and saying, well, um, Francis is a psychopath, 257 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:25,199 Speaker 1: Like you're six year old is a psychopath? Not good? No, 258 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 1: they there's probably a company who specializes in that because 259 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 1: nobody else wants to do like up in the air 260 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: with people paid to come in and fire people, right exactly, Yeah, 261 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: I would if it was George Clooney to be a 262 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: different deal. Right, your child's a psychopath. Here's some literature 263 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: on that, and George and some fine tequila, right is 264 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: it fine? Yeah, it's good. But man, he sold that 265 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 1: thing for a billion dollars. You believe that? No? No, 266 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:59,400 Speaker 1: like George Clooney rolling in dough yeah, rolling in handsome 267 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: billion dollar tequila, I mean charm and he sold his 268 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: tequila company for a billion bucks. He's a psychopath. I 269 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:10,679 Speaker 1: feel like we talked about that before, have we? Is 270 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: that possible? No? We talked about him being smug. Oh 271 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: you did, sir, not me? Right, Well, you said, oh 272 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: I know he's so smug. No, I didn't because I 273 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: want to date him. Uh So when it comes to race, um, 274 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: it gets even more controversial because there have been analyzes 275 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,679 Speaker 1: that tried to link higher rates of the disorder to 276 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 1: Native American communities African American people, and most psychiatrists have 277 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,719 Speaker 1: come out and say, you know what, this is really 278 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:47,360 Speaker 1: not taking into account socio economic factors and it's pretty racist. Yeah. 279 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: There was this guy named Richard Lynn who wrote back 280 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,479 Speaker 1: in the early two thousands a journal article about that 281 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 1: and tried to basically say that the order of UM psychopathy, 282 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: as far as prevalence is concerned, is highest in Blacks 283 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 1: and Native Americans, and then followed by Hispanics and then 284 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 1: whites and then East Asians. And he said that it 285 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: had everything to do with evolution, and he totally left 286 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: out the fact that Hispanics are actually just five hundred 287 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: years or so removed from Caucasian Spanish people. Uh, and 288 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: that UM East Asians are the UM are tied genetically 289 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: to Native Americans over the last like ten thousand years 290 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 1: or so. So people just had fun kind of trashing 291 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 1: this guy's ideas, and he was like, you might also 292 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:40,439 Speaker 1: want to read my manifesto on eugenics, right exactly. Uh. 293 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: One thing is clear though, when it comes to gender, UM, 294 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:52,160 Speaker 1: they're definitely more psychopathic men than women. This dude. Yeah, yeah, 295 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 1: all of the numbers bear it out, like this guy 296 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,919 Speaker 1: is the guy who The people who say no, it 297 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: has to do with races seemed to be total crackpots. Um. 298 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 1: But the people who say that there is a difference 299 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 1: in gender, they're backed up by numbers for sure. Um. 300 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: Studies show that that women definitely have lower occurrences as psychopathy. 301 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: But it has been pointed out that perhaps what women 302 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: psychopaths their behavior, that their behavior manifests itself differently than 303 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 1: male psychopaths, and that the psychopathy criteria is geared more 304 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:37,160 Speaker 1: towards males and is missing female psychopaths. So for example, like, um, 305 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: you know you think of a psychopath, you think of 306 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: like a high functioning one, say like a CEO or 307 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 1: a Patrick Bateman type or something. Right, that's like a 308 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: classic psychopath. But what if what if there are just 309 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: as many women's psychopaths, but they're like um, Joan Crawford 310 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: and mommy dearist or something like that, you know, like 311 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: they just they're they're the way that they behave as 312 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: a psychopath manifests itself differently than how men do. That's 313 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: it's a theory. It's not necessarily true, but that's what 314 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: some people say. Well in the waters are so muddy 315 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: with how men and women think of each other in 316 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 1: their roles in society that it's bound to play a 317 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,640 Speaker 1: part here and how that gets all mixed up, you know. Yeah, 318 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: that's uh well, and then you know there are like 319 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 1: the Eileen Warnses of the world as well like that. 320 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: I know there aren't many female serial killers, but ah, 321 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: there have been some, for sure, but there's definitely not. 322 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: I mean, when you look at the list of serial 323 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 1: killers you here, you see way more Ted Bundy's and 324 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 1: and who is the guy b t K Yeah, Dennis Rader. Yeah, 325 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: there are more of those dudes out there than Eileen 326 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 1: Warns is for sure. That's I mean, that's as far 327 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: as the numbers suggest. Yes, that's true. But I think 328 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 1: it's extremely interesting that, like we're we've got the blinders 329 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: on and are just looking at one set of behaviors 330 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,640 Speaker 1: for psychopaths and are totally missing an entire population out 331 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: there that are women's psychopaths. That's just fascinating to me. 332 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: So should we talk about the psychopathy checklist? Yeah, we 333 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,159 Speaker 1: kind of have to. Yeah, I mean we mentioned a 334 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: little bit of it. Um, through herby Herbie Cleckley. That's 335 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: gotta be money hotel name, um, Herbie Cleckley's work. And 336 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: then hair is the man who is responsible for the 337 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 1: modern um, the modern checklists and tests that people still 338 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 1: give other people. Yeah, and it's pretty simple. Um, well 339 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: it's it's not simple. Well, it's extensive for sure. Yeah. Simple, 340 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 1: and that there are twenty characteristics and when you take 341 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,199 Speaker 1: the test, you either give yourself a two if you 342 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: have one of these characteristics or a one if you 343 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,679 Speaker 1: may or may not. And then at the end you 344 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: do a little math. And is it thirty and above 345 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 1: out of forty you qualify as a psychopath? Yeah, I saw. 346 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: It depends on what country you're in. Um. But seriously, 347 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: but um, somewhere like between twenty six and thirty over 348 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 1: that you are probably you're probably a psychopath, or you 349 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 1: are you you qualify as a psychopath. Yes, So here 350 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: are those twenty characteristics. Uh. And you can either just 351 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 1: listen to these or you can have fun thinking about 352 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 1: your own self and doing a little math along the way. 353 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: I did math on mine earlier, and I'm like, all right, 354 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: I'm not a psychopath. And you can also if it 355 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,880 Speaker 1: doesn't apply. Uh that you score a zero on any 356 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: of the questions. Correct. Uh. So we start with a 357 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 1: glibness and superficiality, and I think these aren't things like 358 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: you know, everybody can be a little superficial every now 359 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: and then. I think these are personality traits that you own, right, 360 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: wouldn't you say? Alright? So glibness and superficialities one grandiosity, 361 00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: need for stimulation, pathological lying uh, cunning and manipulativeness, lack 362 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: of remorse or guilt uh, an emotional shallowness. I want 363 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: to take the rest. YEP, callousness and lack of empathy. 364 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: Big one. Parasitic lifestyle, poor behavioral controls, sure sexual promisecurity, 365 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 1: early behavior problems, lack of realistic long term goals, impulsivity, irresponsibility, 366 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: you take the rest, failure to accept that responsibility, multiple 367 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 1: marriages that just seemed unfair, um, juvenile delinquency and revocation 368 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,160 Speaker 1: of conditional release, which is like a recentivism or violating 369 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: your parole. Yeah, and committing a variety of crimes. Yeah. 370 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 1: So some of those you are like, oh, I can 371 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: be callous and I don't I can be impulsive and 372 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,159 Speaker 1: don't have realistic long term goals. Like, don't sweat it, 373 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: just do the math. Like a thirty out of forty 374 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,159 Speaker 1: is a pretty that means you're scoring on on a 375 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: lot of these, right. But so this, these are the 376 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 1: twenty characteristics that the checklist is getting at. The checklist 377 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: is actually hundreds of questions long and takes between two 378 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,160 Speaker 1: and five hours to administer and can only be administered 379 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: by a highly trained psychologist, right, who's trained in administering 380 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: the tests for a cheap website. So right, So it's 381 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: not like the psychologist is like, did you have early 382 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 1: behavior problems? Uh, maybe that's a one. There's like the 383 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: dozens of questions for each of those things, right, And 384 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 1: so when you when you put the score together for 385 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 1: all of them, if you score over a thirty, um, 386 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: you're a psychopath as far as psychology the field of 387 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: psychology is concerned. Yeah, and you you know, hopefully you 388 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 1: are a functioning psychopath who um is getting along in 389 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: the world. But it can also manage best itself. As 390 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 1: Ted Bundy. So let's say you are a psychopath and 391 00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 1: you're not getting along in the world. Um. One of 392 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:05,159 Speaker 1: the one of the characteristics of psychopaths is something called externalization, 393 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: where you blame others or everything else but yourself for 394 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: your own problems. Um. But if you are a psychopath, 395 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 1: and you're more so if you're not getting along very 396 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:21,959 Speaker 1: well in the world, you're probably more like a factor 397 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: to psychopath. If you are getting along well in the world, 398 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 1: you got a nice job or whatever, a family, all 399 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 1: that you've got, your mask of sanity is cletly put it. Um, 400 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,400 Speaker 1: you you'd be more like a factor one psychopath. Um, 401 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: you're probably an intelligent human being. Yeah, and even if 402 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 1: you're incarcerated, if you there's probably a pretty good chance 403 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,399 Speaker 1: that you're above average intelligence, especially compared to the general 404 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 1: prison population. Right. I was reading this article about um 405 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 1: by a psychologist who is basically telling other psychologists, if 406 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,199 Speaker 1: you go interview a psychopath, here's what to expect. And 407 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: one of the things he said it is you can 408 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,399 Speaker 1: bet they've probably done more research on you than you 409 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 1: have on them. Hannibal lector Hannibal lector great example. Right, 410 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: he knew everything about Starling everything. But like just with say, 411 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: internet privileges, if a if a psychopath knows that he's 412 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 1: coming to be interviewed by you, the psychiatrist, he's probably 413 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,160 Speaker 1: going to read papers you've written, he's going to read 414 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: about what um about your education background, and all of 415 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: this is to figure out how to best tell you 416 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 1: what you want to hear so you can be more 417 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:36,640 Speaker 1: easily manipulated to that person's ends. It is pretty fascinating, 418 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 1: but it's also kind of scary, and you kind of 419 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 1: reach the point now where it's like, uh, okay, this 420 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: is um kind of dangerous actually to interact with people 421 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: like this. And there's a lot of people out there 422 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: who suggests just staying away from psychopaths. Just if you 423 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 1: encounter a psychopath in your normal life, say at work 424 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: or something like that, Um, you want to keep your 425 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 1: distance is kind of the prescribed um treatment. Well, at 426 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 1: least how to deal with them, like, because if you're 427 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: being manipulated by a psychopath, that's that's part of their game. 428 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: So if you engage, like Jodie Foster had no choice, 429 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: Clarice Starling had to engage in Hannibal Lecter and play 430 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: that little psychological cat and mouse game so she could 431 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: get the information that he had on Buffalo Bill. I 432 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: know she didn't want to do it, but she did 433 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: it anyway, and she saved the day. Yeah, So that 434 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: is the advice is to not give them what they want, uh, 435 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: which I imagine would would make a psychopath angry. I 436 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: don't know. I think depending on stay like their tendency 437 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: for a parasitic lifestyle, Um, they may just move on 438 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: to find somebody else who's more easily manipulated. Yeah. Sure, 439 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,080 Speaker 1: like it's possible that they you might really cat to 440 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 1: their attention, in which case you're you're not gonna be 441 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 1: very happy with having to to shed that person. But 442 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 1: chuck something that really struck me. And this is gonna 443 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: sound really weird to say it, but I can't help 444 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: but think fifty years from now, we're gonna look back 445 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: at a lot of the writing and a lot of 446 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: the suggestions on how to deal with the psychopath, which 447 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 1: is get rid of them, leave, get them a get 448 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: away from them, their predators and awful people that they're 449 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: They're gonna there's going to be a historically it's not 450 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: gonna hold up very well that Yeah, I think we're 451 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: gonna come to find that, um, psychopaths have no way 452 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: of helping themselves, that they are their brain is physically 453 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: different from the average persons, and that they can't help 454 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 1: their behavior anymore than the average person can change their 455 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:54,239 Speaker 1: own behavior. Right, Um, probably even less actually, and then 456 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: we're gonna look at you know, back fifty years from now. 457 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 1: I was like, man, that's how they treated psychopaths back then. 458 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: How awful. You know, Like how we used to treat 459 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: them mentally impaired or they cognitively impaired, and they were 460 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: you know, classified as moron's idiots or imbeciles, depending on 461 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: how how extreme the impairment was, and you know, it 462 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: was just lock them up, keep them away from society. 463 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 1: I can't help but wonder if once we know how 464 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: to treat psychopathy, that we will view them much differently 465 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: and maybe even with sympathy. Well, I mean, they have 466 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: something physically wrong with their brain, it seems like it. 467 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: But that's a new thought. And we'll let's take a 468 00:31:34,080 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: break and we'll talk about that after this. All right, 469 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: we're back. Uh So we promised a little bit of 470 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: talk about the brain, and um, you know, there's a 471 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 1: couple of things that work here and at play there. 472 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: There's the physical aspect of the brain is actually uh 473 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: uh well I would say damage, but um, just not 474 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 1: right in some ways. Uh, they tends to be regions 475 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,239 Speaker 1: of the brain. They're really trying to zero in on 476 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: which which one it is underdeveloped? Underdeveloped. Yeah, it's either smaller, 477 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: has less volume, or it's less active than it is 478 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: in control groups. Right, So there's that going on. And 479 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 1: then they're also and this is what we talked about 480 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 1: with factors one and two. Um, there's also social uh 481 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: factors that play in and they supposedly supposedly well, I 482 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: mean that seems to be losing favor pretty quickly. Do 483 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: you think brain damage that's supposedly what I'm seeing is 484 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 1: that that's the And it could just be the people 485 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: who are like really bullish on m R. Eyes are 486 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,480 Speaker 1: really you know, getting more pressed or whatever and getting 487 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: their message out there more. But it seems like over 488 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:15,719 Speaker 1: time favor has swung from you know, insanity to um 489 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 1: to nurture too, and then back again to you know, 490 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 1: physical brain structure, possibly even genetics. Well yeah, genetics. They 491 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: have done studies on twins, identical twins, and they think 492 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: it could be fifty to six genetically determined. But it 493 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 1: gets a little muddy because you can say, well, um, 494 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: you might have gotten your psycho orpy not psychotic. We 495 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: should point out that is a very different thing. Actually, um, 496 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: oh yeah we did at the beginning, right, Um, you 497 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: could say that your your dad was, um a psychopath, 498 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: so that means that you got that from him. But 499 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: the fact that your dad was a psychopath, it could 500 00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: also be a very strong, um social factor in why 501 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: you became a psychopath. Right yeah, yeah, exactly your absent 502 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: father did that make your psychopath? Or was he absent 503 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,759 Speaker 1: because he was a psychopath himself and passes genes onto you. Right, 504 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 1: So it definitely gets muddy. It is very muddy. And 505 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 1: the way that that will be sussed out ultimately is 506 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:21,720 Speaker 1: if they can show definitively no, dude, like in case 507 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 1: after case after case. This this region of the brain 508 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 1: is underdeveloped, and this region of the brain has to 509 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 1: do with, say, processing emotions, like for example, one of 510 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 1: the one of the places they zero in on is 511 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:39,760 Speaker 1: the amygdala, right yeah. The amygdala helps you, It helps 512 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 1: regulate emotions, it helps helps you experience emotions, and in psychopaths, 513 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: at least in some studies using mr eyes, they show 514 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 1: that if your amygdala is less active as it is 515 00:34:55,880 --> 00:35:00,399 Speaker 1: in people who score high on the psychopathy checklist, Um, 516 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:07,280 Speaker 1: they're amigdala does not react normally in in certain tests. Right. 517 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 1: And this this actually makes a lot of sense because 518 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 1: when you're being socialized by your parents, one of the 519 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,319 Speaker 1: ways that they socialize you're probably the most important way 520 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,840 Speaker 1: they socialize you, is by punishing you when you're bad 521 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 1: and you feel bad. You feel bad for letting your 522 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 1: parents down. You might feel angry because you can't leave 523 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,799 Speaker 1: your room or have dessert, um, whatever it is. You're 524 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 1: experiencing some pretty pronounced negative emotions right then, and so 525 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:38,799 Speaker 1: over time, you start to associate those negatives of emotions 526 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,840 Speaker 1: with the bad behavior that your parents are trying to curb. 527 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,280 Speaker 1: And eventually you're gonna stop doing that bad behavior because 528 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,240 Speaker 1: it feels bad to do it because you keep getting punished. 529 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: And then maybe your your own brain takes over and 530 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 1: you feel negative emotions when you do that stuff. Right, 531 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:58,080 Speaker 1: If you're amygdala is not functioning properly, then that's not 532 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,320 Speaker 1: going to happen. That process isn't gonna work, yeah, because 533 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 1: you're not going to experience those negative emotions. You're just 534 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,959 Speaker 1: gonna be like, Oh, I wish I could leave my room. 535 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 1: I think I'll just climb out the window over here. 536 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,479 Speaker 1: Not oh I feel so bad for letting my parents down. 537 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:14,840 Speaker 1: You're not going to experience that because you're amygdala is 538 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 1: not functioning. So they've really zeroed in on the amygdala. 539 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 1: But apparently the big toast of the town these days 540 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,279 Speaker 1: is the paralympics system. Yeah, that's when uh in you know, 541 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 1: the in the wonder machine, the fm R a machine 542 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 1: it lights up and shows you what parts of the 543 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 1: brain are being used into what extent. I know, we've 544 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:35,279 Speaker 1: talked about that a lot, but in case you didn't know, uh, 545 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 1: And the paralymic system is underdeveloped in psychopaths, or it 546 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 1: seems so at least, and that that region controls emotional memories, inhibition, 547 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 1: and moral reasoning. So that seems pretty obvious if you 548 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,919 Speaker 1: have an underdeveloped paralympic system, that that's kind of big 549 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,879 Speaker 1: on the checklist of psychopathy. Yeah. And there's a whole 550 00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 1: group of people who are UM kind of leading the 551 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 1: current research and psychopathy studying UM the prisoners, Because if 552 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 1: you're a prisoner, chances are you're going to be forced 553 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 1: to take the UM psychopathy checklist. UM. And that's that's again, 554 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:19,920 Speaker 1: that's where most of our psychopath study population resides is 555 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 1: in prison. UM. So if they volunteer for a follow 556 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 1: up study, if they score high on the psychopathy checklist, UM, 557 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: they'll probably be put into an m r I and 558 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 1: given different tests. And these are the people who the 559 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 1: results are starting to be to be cold from basically 560 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,279 Speaker 1: using the m r I, and they seem to it 561 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,680 Speaker 1: does seem to be pointing to the paralympic system. Very interesting, 562 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 1: It is extremely interesting. But again it makes you feel like, well, man, 563 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,359 Speaker 1: if it's not these people's fault, like, what can we do. 564 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 1: And part of the problem, Chuck, is that there's like zero, none, 565 00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:00,800 Speaker 1: a million percent to the negative cure. Yeah, you're not 566 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:05,280 Speaker 1: gonna cure UM. If you have an underdeveloped paralympic system 567 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:10,560 Speaker 1: or amygdala. There's nothing you can do about that, you know. Um. 568 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:16,760 Speaker 1: What you can do is hope to improve UM with therapy. Obviously, UM, 569 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,279 Speaker 1: catching it earlier in life is obviously gonna help more. 570 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 1: And what they found there's one, uh sort of treatment. 571 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:26,759 Speaker 1: They found that a lot of the typical treatments you 572 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 1: might use don't work. UM. Everything from group therapy to 573 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: electro shock hugs. Group therapy in particular was found not 574 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 1: to work because it gave psychopaths a chance to hone 575 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,879 Speaker 1: their manipulative behavior, which is just a bad idea out 576 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,160 Speaker 1: of the game. Yeah, it made things worse. So UM. 577 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,759 Speaker 1: Recently they started work with kids that they seem to 578 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,240 Speaker 1: have made some gain some ground on called decompression treatment, 579 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 1: the basis of which is basically, UH rewarding and this 580 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 1: is through hours long session hours lungs, hours long sessions 581 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:07,320 Speaker 1: UM of psychologists increasing reward for good behavior. So instead 582 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 1: of talking about the bad behavior and punishing bad behavior, 583 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 1: it's rewarding good behavior and kind of feeding that desire 584 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 1: of the psychopath to feel like they're winning. UM. I 585 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:20,719 Speaker 1: don't know, it's it seems to work. It seems a 586 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,799 Speaker 1: little dangerous to me too, like you're feeding the thing 587 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,920 Speaker 1: that they require. But maybe maybe that makes sense. I 588 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:33,879 Speaker 1: write a really really interesting um Cora post called what 589 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:38,960 Speaker 1: it feels Like to be a Psychopath um, and it's 590 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 1: exactly that is. The person wrote it anonymously. They seem 591 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,840 Speaker 1: to they seem to be legit that that they're just 592 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 1: making it up as they go along. UM. And they 593 00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 1: they talk about basically being trained that there they're a psychopath. 594 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 1: They're going to be a psychopath for the rest of 595 00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:00,439 Speaker 1: their life, and they're just trying to learn and how 596 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:06,480 Speaker 1: to be good in society while being a psychopath. Um, 597 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,800 Speaker 1: so they can go along and get along. It's really interesting. 598 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,480 Speaker 1: But but that's supposedly the best you can hope for. Again, 599 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:18,320 Speaker 1: there's no cure. There is treatment, but if you unless 600 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 1: somebody is saying, like son, there's something really really wrong 601 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:27,919 Speaker 1: with you, and I'm really worried about you, and I'm 602 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,040 Speaker 1: gonna cut you out of my will unless you go 603 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 1: see a shrink. The psychopath is typically not going to 604 00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,920 Speaker 1: say I really need some help with my moral reasoning, 605 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 1: so I'm gonna go go get you know, some treatment. 606 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:44,239 Speaker 1: It's just not going to happen. So there's a there's 607 00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 1: a really big catch twenty two in there with psycho 608 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 1: psychopathy to begin with. But then Chuck, there's also a 609 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:55,080 Speaker 1: question of you know what is psychopathy? Like? Are we 610 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,800 Speaker 1: sure we know exactly what a psychopath is? And in 611 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,560 Speaker 1: psychiatry and psychology as such, a long history of just 612 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:07,239 Speaker 1: so much over confidence and self assuredness when they when 613 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,359 Speaker 1: they're really getting it wrong. Yeah, that that you can 614 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,880 Speaker 1: be forgiven for stopping and saying, whoa you guys are 615 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:17,040 Speaker 1: are the arbiters of what's normal in society. Um, and 616 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,560 Speaker 1: this is a really serious thing to label somebody. So 617 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,799 Speaker 1: are we sure we know what we're talking about? And 618 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 1: not everybody says yeah, yeah, we know what psychopathy is. 619 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,359 Speaker 1: I mean, we were using interchangeable terms that don't even 620 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:33,680 Speaker 1: describe the same thing still, like sociopath and psychopath. It's 621 00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:35,920 Speaker 1: just there's a lot of confusion and it just seems 622 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 1: kind of dangerous too to label people with that stigma. 623 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 1: At the same time, if psychopaths do exist in the 624 00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:46,280 Speaker 1: form that psychiatry and psychology says it does, it's dangerous 625 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 1: to have those people out and about too. Yeah. I 626 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,000 Speaker 1: think I agree with you now that this just smacks 627 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,319 Speaker 1: of fifty years later saying I can't believe we used 628 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:59,080 Speaker 1: to do things and label people this way. Yeah, you know, Yeah, 629 00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:00,560 Speaker 1: it's hard to tell when you're in the middle of 630 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:05,200 Speaker 1: that time. Yeah, for sure. But um, very interesting. Yeah, 631 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 1: there's Uh did you ever read the psychopath Test? I 632 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:10,359 Speaker 1: have not read it. I know of it. I know 633 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,719 Speaker 1: Ronson wrote it. Yeah, John Ronson, who uh a friend 634 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:15,400 Speaker 1: of stuff you should know, and he's actually done a 635 00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:17,920 Speaker 1: uh one of our live shows at the Bellhouse with 636 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 1: us without shoes on. But did he not wear shoes. 637 00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,399 Speaker 1: He's just wearing socks. I don't think I knew that. Well, 638 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:29,000 Speaker 1: he very strangely walked from the Upper West Side of 639 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,759 Speaker 1: New York to but without shoes. Well maybe his feet 640 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:36,359 Speaker 1: were just hurting from that wall. That's possible anyway, lovely guy. 641 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,719 Speaker 1: And he wrote a great book called The Psychopath Test, 642 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,400 Speaker 1: and he does a lot of extensive interviewing with with 643 00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:46,880 Speaker 1: hair and um and other professionals and psychopaths and CEO 644 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:52,000 Speaker 1: s so uh investigative journalists. Just really terrific book. And 645 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,040 Speaker 1: I hate to be pluggy, but it's a it seems 646 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,799 Speaker 1: like an organic time to mention that I've got a 647 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:04,719 Speaker 1: new solo podcast coming called movie Crush. I think the 648 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:09,239 Speaker 1: tagline is your favorite people their favorite movie. Oh that's 649 00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:11,680 Speaker 1: a good tagline. You like that. Yeah, I came up 650 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,359 Speaker 1: with that. Nice work. My buddy Scotty thought a movie 651 00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,719 Speaker 1: crush the title. But basically, I sit down once a 652 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:21,000 Speaker 1: week and talked to some kind of notable person about 653 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,319 Speaker 1: their favorite movie. It's a great idea, Chuck, thanks man, 654 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,520 Speaker 1: very Gangbusters. But I want to have you on. Oh 655 00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:29,680 Speaker 1: I'd love to be on, which would be very strange. 656 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,560 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a conversation, but just the thought of like, 657 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,160 Speaker 1: quote unquote interviewing you would be weird. Well, anytime you 658 00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,359 Speaker 1: want me on, I'm happy to be on. But if 659 00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,360 Speaker 1: it is too weird, that's fine too. Oh no, it 660 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:43,279 Speaker 1: won't be too weird. They'd be great. But anyway, long 661 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:47,880 Speaker 1: story short, I had had Ronson on and um, his 662 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:49,680 Speaker 1: favorite movie I'll go ahead and just set this up 663 00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 1: as a teaser was his let the Right One in. Oh, 664 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,279 Speaker 1: that's such a good movie, the Swedish vampire movie. Yeah. Man, 665 00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,120 Speaker 1: that was so good. And I don't know when it 666 00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:00,680 Speaker 1: we're gonna start released. See them. I gotta get a 667 00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:03,040 Speaker 1: bunch of them in the can because scheduling people is tough, 668 00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,279 Speaker 1: so I need a nice pad. But um, sometime in 669 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:11,080 Speaker 1: the fall, look for a movie crush well, best of luck. 670 00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:12,960 Speaker 1: I'm sure it's gonna be awesome. I can't wait to 671 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:14,960 Speaker 1: hear it. Yeah, and just talking to Ronson's great. I 672 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,120 Speaker 1: love that guy. Yeah, he's such a good guy, really 673 00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,840 Speaker 1: good dude. Yeah. And just pro tip, if any of 674 00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:22,480 Speaker 1: you are ever around John Ronson, be careful not to 675 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:27,440 Speaker 1: step on his feet. Correct. Uh, well, you got anything 676 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:31,239 Speaker 1: more about psychopaths? I got nothing more about psychopaths. That's 677 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,960 Speaker 1: pretty interesting because it seems like there's a lot, but 678 00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,160 Speaker 1: there's not. We said at all correct. If you want 679 00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,759 Speaker 1: to know more about psychopaths, again, there's nothing more to know. 680 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:41,600 Speaker 1: But if you want to read this cool article on 681 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:44,600 Speaker 1: how stuff works, you can type psychopathy into the search bar. 682 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,399 Speaker 1: And since I said psychopathy, it's time for listener mail. 683 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,200 Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this short and sweet, and it's basically 684 00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:58,000 Speaker 1: kind of set up to uh promote the stuff you 685 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,200 Speaker 1: should Know Army. Um. I don't know who first coined 686 00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:05,120 Speaker 1: that phrase, but the stuff you should Know Army are. 687 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,760 Speaker 1: It's a collection of our most ardent listeners and fans 688 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,600 Speaker 1: who over the years have got their own little mini 689 00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,600 Speaker 1: community on Facebook. Even there's a stuff you Should Know 690 00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,680 Speaker 1: Army Facebook page. And they're just like the cream of 691 00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:21,319 Speaker 1: the crop and just good people who love to talk 692 00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,640 Speaker 1: about the episodes and help each other out in life, 693 00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:29,239 Speaker 1: uh with various things. Just they're they're not psychopaths in 694 00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:33,840 Speaker 1: any way, right, you know. Ironically they're not militant either. No, 695 00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:35,319 Speaker 1: they're not. So this is just a kind of a 696 00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:39,720 Speaker 1: short email about that from Tony. Hey, guys, been listening 697 00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:41,759 Speaker 1: to you for a little over two years now. And 698 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:43,840 Speaker 1: even though I love learning about all the topics, my 699 00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,839 Speaker 1: absolute favorite thing ever see from your work is unintentionally 700 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,719 Speaker 1: meeting real life stuff you should know Army personnel out 701 00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:55,000 Speaker 1: there at work and in social situations and going way 702 00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,880 Speaker 1: too far down the rabbit hole with them about our 703 00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:02,920 Speaker 1: favorite episodes. Even he says, s y s M instead 704 00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:08,880 Speaker 1: of sk stuff. You should anyway, thank you for the 705 00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,360 Speaker 1: work and all you've done. You three really brightened people's 706 00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:15,080 Speaker 1: lives forever. A devoted listener That is from Tony Latham Jr. 707 00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:20,840 Speaker 1: From Sacramento. Thanks a lot, Junior. We appreciate that thanks 708 00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:22,960 Speaker 1: to all this stuff you should know Army, like if 709 00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,880 Speaker 1: you were there here the core. Uh, that kind of 710 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,240 Speaker 1: keeps this machine running. Yeah, And if if you're interested, 711 00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:32,239 Speaker 1: you want to connect to some really great people online 712 00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,080 Speaker 1: and in real life, just go to the stuff you 713 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,960 Speaker 1: should know Army Facebook page is it um by invitation 714 00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,800 Speaker 1: is open to the public. I know think you have to. 715 00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:45,960 Speaker 1: I mean, you don't apply, but it's a it's a 716 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,640 Speaker 1: member's only page, so you gotta click on something and 717 00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:53,280 Speaker 1: then you know one of our admins. I'm sure it goes. 718 00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,759 Speaker 1: They look all right, right, Let's let him in Yeah. 719 00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,200 Speaker 1: I think that they have a Twitter handle as well too. 720 00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,000 Speaker 1: Okay to check that out, and you can check us 721 00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:04,360 Speaker 1: out on Twitter too. I've got my own Twitter handle, 722 00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,680 Speaker 1: It's josh um Clark. Uh. There's also the official one 723 00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,920 Speaker 1: S Y s K podcast. Chuck is on Facebook at 724 00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,840 Speaker 1: Charles W. Chuck Bryant and at Stuff you Should Know 725 00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,840 Speaker 1: as well, and you can send us all an email 726 00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,000 Speaker 1: to Stuff Podcast at how stuff Works dot com and 727 00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:23,319 Speaker 1: as always, join us at our home on the web, 728 00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:30,319 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know dot com For more on this 729 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,959 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff Works 730 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:43,839 Speaker 1: dot com