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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg Intelligence

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Speaker 1: with Alex Steel and Paul Sweeney.

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Speaker 2: The real app performance has been the US corporate high yield.

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Speaker 3: Are the companies lean enough? Have they trimmed all the fats?

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Speaker 2: The semiconductor business is a really cyclical business.

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Speaker 1: Breaking market headlines and corporate news from across the globe.

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Speaker 3: Do investors like the M and A that we've seen?

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Speaker 4: These are two.

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Speaker 2: Big time blue chip companies.

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Speaker 3: The window between the peak and cut changing super fast.

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence with Alex Steel and Paul Sweeney on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 5: I'm Paul Sweeney and I'm normal Linda filling in for

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Speaker 5: Alex Steele.

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Speaker 2: Today's Bloomberg Intelligence Show we dig inside the big business

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Speaker 2: stories from PACTE, Wall Street and the global markets.

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Speaker 5: Each and every week we provide in depth research and

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Speaker 5: data on some of the two thousand companies and one

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Speaker 5: hundred and thirty industries are analysts covered worldwide.

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Speaker 2: Today, we'll look at why the coffee giants Bucks has

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Speaker 2: withdrawn its guidance for twenty twenty five plus.

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Speaker 5: We'll dive into the telecommunication space and look at earnings

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Speaker 5: from AT and T.

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Speaker 2: But first we look at earnings from the shipping giant UPS.

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Speaker 5: This week, the company reported that it returned to sales

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Speaker 5: and profit growth for the first time in nearly two years.

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Speaker 5: UPS benefited from higher volumes, more profitable packages, and studying

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Speaker 5: labor costs for more.

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Speaker 2: Nora and I were joined by Lee Klascow, Bloomberg Intelligence

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Speaker 2: Senior Transport, Logistics and shipping analysts.

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Speaker 5: We first asked Lee for his take on UPS's most

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Speaker 5: recent quarter.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, so UPS had a pretty good print. May also,

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Speaker 6: you know, indicated that earnings might be a little better

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Speaker 6: than expectations are in the fourth quarter. UPS has been

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Speaker 6: kind of a show me story. They've been doing a

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Speaker 6: lot of self help things, but a lot of those

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Speaker 6: initiatives really haven't bubbled up to the bottom line or

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Speaker 6: the revenue numbers, just given the difficult backdrop. And what

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Speaker 6: we saw was earnings per share for growth finally inflected

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Speaker 6: positively after seven quarterly declines. So things seem to be

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Speaker 6: working for UPS, and you know, we expect earnings expectations

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Speaker 6: for the fourth quarter and probably next year to move

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Speaker 6: higher on kind of the progress that they've made thus far.

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Speaker 5: Hayley, I mean, you mentioned that difficult backdrop as we're

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Speaker 5: thinking about the future. I mean, how much of a

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Speaker 5: move higher do you really anticipate as we're thinking about

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Speaker 5: the year end, should investors start to see some gains here?

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Speaker 6: Well, we don't do buy hoole sell recommendations of Bloomberg Intelligence,

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Speaker 6: but you know, what we can tell you is that

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Speaker 6: the company are doing the right things to see their

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Speaker 6: margins expand. And you know, our view is that margin

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Speaker 6: expansion could be more than where where the market currently

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Speaker 6: is at. And a lot of that has to do

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Speaker 6: with a lot of the cost savings that they've been

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Speaker 6: able to generate. They've been able to you know, shut

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Speaker 6: down various shifts, sorting shifts, They've been able to close

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Speaker 6: some facilities and just do more with the network that

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Speaker 6: they have. That and if you fast forward that, you know,

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Speaker 6: maybe you know, volumes could start to improve a little

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Speaker 6: more meaningfully from here. You know, they expect a better

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Speaker 6: peak season this year, albeit probably not as robust as

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Speaker 6: they were probably planning for three months ago, but the

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Speaker 6: peak season is expected to grow. And the reason for

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Speaker 6: you know, them tempering the outlook for the peak season

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Speaker 6: is given the fact that the peak season is condensed

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Speaker 6: the peak season for those that don't know is from

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Speaker 6: Black Friday to Christmas Eve and because of that condensed

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Speaker 6: peaks time. You know, a lot of retailers think that

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Speaker 6: some consumers might be going to the stores versus ordering

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Speaker 6: online and making that gamble whether or not you get

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Speaker 6: it under the tree in time.

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Speaker 7: Hay Lee.

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Speaker 2: We love talking to you for a variety of reasons,

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Speaker 2: not the least of which is the companies you covered

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Speaker 2: lead give us a real sense of how the underlying

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Speaker 2: economy is doing, whether it's stuff's being shipped by rail

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Speaker 2: or truck or air cargo. What's GPS telling you about

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Speaker 2: kind of underlying activity that they're seeing.

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Speaker 6: Well, first and foremost, I love talking to you as well, Paul,

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Speaker 6: But you know what I think they're telling us is

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Speaker 6: the consumer is doing okay. You know, it's not doom

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Speaker 6: and gloom going into the holiday season. I think that

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Speaker 6: you know, you are going to see growth. Like I

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Speaker 6: said earlier, that growth might be a little more tempered,

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Speaker 6: but you know, we are seeing a return to kind

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Speaker 6: of seasonality, which is really good because it's not just

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Speaker 6: going to impact the parcel providers. It's going to impact

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Speaker 6: the truckload providers, you know, like the night swifts and

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Speaker 6: the warners of the world. It's going to impact the

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Speaker 6: intermodal providers like the JB Hunts and the hub groups

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Speaker 6: of the world, and the railroads as well. So, you

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Speaker 6: know what we're hearing about the consumer and the fact

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Speaker 6: that B to B volume grew for the first time

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Speaker 6: in a long time within their domestic business is also

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Speaker 6: telling me, you know, that that things might be might

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Speaker 6: be a little better in twenty twenty five. So you know,

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Speaker 6: we're pretty optimistic that demand should be increasing across most

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Speaker 6: of the modes that we cover, and you know, twenty

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Speaker 6: twenty five and our view was going to be a

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Speaker 6: much better year than twenty twenty four was.

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Speaker 5: And I do know back in about April, I remember

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Speaker 5: that UPS became USPS's primary air cargo provider. Is that

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Speaker 5: still a topic of conversation. How much has that really

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Speaker 5: added to the business if at all?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, So it is a great business win for them.

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Speaker 6: You know, FedEx walked away from it for various reasons

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Speaker 6: and UPS decided to pick it up. It's going to

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Speaker 6: be consistent volumes at a consistently good margin. And you

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Speaker 6: know what they're doing is they're really restructuring their overall

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Speaker 6: business they've been getting out of businesses that are a

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Speaker 6: lot more volatile. They just sold their freight brokerach business,

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Speaker 6: which was called Coyote to RXO, and then that was

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Speaker 6: earlier last month, and then in twenty twenty one they

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Speaker 6: sold their less than truckload business UPS Freight to TFI

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Speaker 6: and those were not great businesses for UPS. And now

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Speaker 6: UPS can really focus on being a parcel provider. And

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Speaker 6: to answer your question, what the US postal service business

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Speaker 6: can also do, It's going to build density and density

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Speaker 6: is the name of the game in any transportation company,

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Speaker 6: and so they can build off that density with other volumes.

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Speaker 2: Our thanks to Lee Klasgow, Bloomberg Intelligence Senior Transport, Logistics

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Speaker 2: and Shipping analyst.

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Speaker 5: We move next to earnings from ev giant Tesla.

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Speaker 2: Tesla's expectations for earnings in the third quarter. The company

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Speaker 2: also forecasted as much as thirty percent growth in vehicle

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Speaker 2: sales next year. This reflects the rebound and demand for

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Speaker 2: Tesla's electric vehicles.

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Speaker 5: For more, Paul and I were joined by Craig Trudell,

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Speaker 5: Bloomberg Global Autos Editor. We first asked Craig for his

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Speaker 5: take on Tesla's most recent.

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Speaker 4: Results Oftentimes it's not necessarily the case that you can

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Speaker 4: count on both earnings and the vision to be positive.

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Speaker 4: In this case, both were working in Musk's favor. I

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Speaker 4: think the earnings were much better than expected. I do

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Speaker 4: think that those expectations came down quite a bit over

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Speaker 4: the last year year and a half, but they sort

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Speaker 4: of they did exceed expectations by pretty significant measures. And

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Speaker 4: the profit margins in particular, or something that everybody keeps

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Speaker 4: a very close eye on their automotive profit margins when

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Speaker 4: you back out the credits that they sell to other

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Speaker 4: automakers for regulatory purposes, those in particular, I feel like,

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Speaker 4: are you know, just quarter in and quarter out what

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Speaker 4: everybody looks at? That was a big beat. And then

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Speaker 4: I think Musk was as self assured as I've ever heard.

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Speaker 4: He's never won lacking in confidence. And for him to

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Speaker 4: throw out, you know, twenty to thirty percent sales increase

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Speaker 4: for next year, I think was very surprising. For nine

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Speaker 4: ten months into the year, and they've delivered fewer vehicles

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Speaker 4: in twenty twenty four than they did in twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 5: Hey, Craig, So when I'm walking around New York City

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Speaker 5: every so often I will see, to my surprise, a

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Speaker 5: cyber truck. What is the leadst on that? What do

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Speaker 5: they say in earnings? What can we expect there?

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Speaker 4: They said that it was gross margin positive for the

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Speaker 4: first time in the recent quarter, and so we're almost

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Speaker 4: we're roughly a year into the launch of that vehicle.

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Speaker 4: I would say that's a little on the early side,

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Speaker 4: just relative to how Tesla has you know, done with

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Speaker 4: with new vehicle launches in the past. So that is

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Speaker 4: another another positive I think, you know, in terms of volume,

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Speaker 4: it's it's still quite low relative to the Model Y

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Speaker 4: and the Model three. That is still where you see

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Speaker 4: the vast majority of Tesla's deliveries, so much so that

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Speaker 4: Tesla has even yet to break out that that vehicle.

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Speaker 4: And in terms of you know, quarterly results, and so

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Speaker 4: I think we have a rough idea of how many

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Speaker 4: they've sold. Ironically, based on the recalls that the company

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Speaker 4: has had to do with the vehicle. It's it's as

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Speaker 4: of the latest recall was, which was just a few

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Speaker 4: weeks ago, it was around twenty seven thousand units, I believe,

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Speaker 4: So you know, that's that's pretty small for a company

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Speaker 4: that you know, may sell somewhere in a one point

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Speaker 4: eight million vehicles this year.

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Speaker 2: Where is the focus from the company here in terms

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Speaker 2: of they seems like they have a lot of balls

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Speaker 2: in the air, obviously, the car business itself, robotaxis, artificial intelligence,

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Speaker 2: what are they? What does Elon want investors to focus on?

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Speaker 4: Do you think? I think that's actually really one of

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Speaker 4: the most interesting things here. And I think Liam Denning's

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Speaker 4: column for Bloomberg Opinion, you know, does a great job

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Speaker 4: of laying out this idea that you know, Musk's emphasis

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Speaker 4: has really been on, you know, don't bother with the

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Speaker 4: here and now, forget the near term earnings. The sort

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Speaker 4: of big potential for this company has to do with,

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Speaker 4: you know, selling self driving cars and humanoid robots and

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Speaker 4: things that you know, we've heard Elon talk about time

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Speaker 4: and time again, but not actually deliver. And I think,

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Speaker 4: you know, if if you're sort of looking at this

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Speaker 4: company sort of class half full, it's I'm less concerned

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Speaker 4: than I am today about the here and now of

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Speaker 4: this company and the earnings power of Tesla and it's

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Speaker 4: it's current business and therefore, you know, more encouraged that

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Speaker 4: that they have, you know, the ability and the time

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Speaker 4: and the financial wherewithal to go out and pursue those

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Speaker 4: you know, big stretch goals that Musk has stepped for

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Speaker 4: the company, and you know, depending on who you ask,

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Speaker 4: you know may or may not be able to actually

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Speaker 4: follow through on his various predictions.

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Speaker 5: Well, from an equity perspective, this stock has been all

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Speaker 5: over the place this year. What's the goal case here?

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Speaker 5: What are people saying? How much legs do they have

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Speaker 5: to run? Can the stock go much further? What's the

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Speaker 5: consensus there?

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Speaker 4: You're absolutely right. I mean back in April, this was

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Speaker 4: a stock that was down forty three percent for the year,

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Speaker 4: and so for for them to have you know, come

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Speaker 4: all the way back, they it's sold off quite a bit,

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Speaker 4: you know, after the Robotaxi unveiling just a few weeks ago,

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Speaker 4: and you know, we we've now seen the shares to

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Speaker 4: go positive again for the year. I think whether or

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Speaker 4: not the the company can can actually grow next year

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Speaker 4: with deliveries, I think is really important. Because even Musk,

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Speaker 4: who's you know, sort of perpetually said, you know, next

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Speaker 4: year will be our year for autonomy, even he is saying,

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Speaker 4: you know that this cyber cab that they showed a

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Speaker 4: couple of weeks ago isn't going to be ready in

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty six, and so we need this company to bring,

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Speaker 4: you know, more affordable vehicles to market, to make teslas

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Speaker 4: more accessible to more consumers and get back to when

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Speaker 4: it's you know, growing again. To put it simply, and

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Speaker 4: you know, I think it's still unclear what exactly they

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Speaker 4: have to offer that's going to help them get there.

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Speaker 2: Thanks to Craig Trudell, Bloomberg Global Autos Editor.

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Speaker 5: Coming up, we'll discuss what we can expect and Walt

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Speaker 5: Disney's succession planning.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence on Bloomberg Radio, providing

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Speaker 2: in depth research and data on two thousand companies and

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Speaker 2: one hundred and thirty industries. You can access Bloomberg Intelligence

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Speaker 2: be a b I go on the terminal.

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Speaker 5: I'll Paul Sweeten and I'm normal. DUP, this is Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live

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Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Affle Card Playing and

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Speaker 1: broud Otto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand

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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 5: I'm Paul and I'm normal. Enda, filling in for Alex Steel.

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Speaker 2: We move next to earnings from the coffee chains Starbucks.

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Speaker 2: This week, the company reported sales that plunged for the

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Speaker 2: third consecutive quarter.

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Speaker 5: Starbucks also pulled its guidance for twenty twenty five. This

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Speaker 5: comes as a new CEO, Brian Nichol, tries to assess

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Speaker 5: his business and develop a turnaround plan for more.

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Speaker 2: Guest host Emily Grafao and I were joined by Michael Halen,

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg Intelligence Senior Restaurant and food service analyst. We first

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Speaker 2: asked Michael what exactly is going on at Starbucks.

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Speaker 8: They played catch up a bit once the hiring of

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Speaker 8: Brian Nichol was announced. You know, Brian Nichols started last month,

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Speaker 8: and you know he's moving quickly.

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Speaker 2: Man.

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Speaker 7: He's making a lot of management changes, and he's.

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Speaker 8: Aggressively making moves to simplify operations. You know, they're going

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Speaker 8: to rationalize menu items, make it easier to execute, and

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Speaker 8: try to bring.

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Speaker 7: Hospitality back to the coffee shops right.

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Speaker 8: They want to free up their employees, their partners as

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Speaker 8: they like to call them, to get back to knowing

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Speaker 8: the names of their customers right and being able to

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Speaker 8: greet them with a smile and friendly service, right, and

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Speaker 8: so's that's going to be job one, and then from

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Speaker 8: there they're going to expand on the marketing side.

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Speaker 7: You know, Starbucks has historically.

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Speaker 8: Only marketed to its rewards members, right, and Brian nicol

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Speaker 8: wants to expand that to everyone, right.

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Speaker 7: And we think that's a smart plan.

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Speaker 8: We think they've been under investing in marketing for a

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Speaker 8: long time and we expect it to pay dividends as

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Speaker 8: early as fiscal twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 9: What is the company said to explain the seven percent

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Speaker 9: decline in same store sales? Because before you came on,

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Speaker 9: we were talking about how you have to wait in

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Speaker 9: a really long line to get your Starbucks.

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Speaker 10: There's less foot traffic.

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Speaker 2: Right every doing it.

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Speaker 9: There's I guess, well maybe some teams in the store,

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Speaker 9: but there's less people in the store. What have they

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Speaker 9: said about really what's driving that decline?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 8: Part of what new CEO Brian Niccholas said is is

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Speaker 8: like it's largely about the experience. You know, it's become

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Speaker 8: largely transactional. Right, They've lost that customer service feel. They've

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Speaker 8: had the trouble executing the orders. You know, a big

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Speaker 8: part of it is, you know. And then he also

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Speaker 8: mentioned that, you know, all of these new menu items

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Speaker 8: that they added to try to bring people in didn't work, right.

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Speaker 8: And then pricing has gotten ahead of itself at Starbucks

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Speaker 8: as well.

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Speaker 7: And then China, China.

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Speaker 8: There's a huge price gap between the prices that they're charging.

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Speaker 8: Sometimes they're charging three times as much as as some

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Speaker 8: of their smaller.

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Speaker 7: Competitors like Luck and Coffee and k Coffee.

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Speaker 8: So, you know, prices has also been a big part

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Speaker 8: of their issue, and it's something that they're they're going

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Speaker 8: to address right away.

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Speaker 2: You know, I've seen some crazy graphics in various articles

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Speaker 2: showing the permutations of the different orders that one could have,

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Speaker 2: and if you're bar barber, it's virtually impossible to learn

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Speaker 2: all these Is there a sense that they got to

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Speaker 2: simplify just the menu a little bit.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, they issued a video and that was a big

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Speaker 8: point of emphasis. It was like making the jobs of

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Speaker 8: their bearistas a lot easier and their employees a lot easier, right,

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Speaker 8: and so you know, when an employee stressed, it's very

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Speaker 8: hard for them to provide the customer with a good experience, right,

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Speaker 8: So this all flows downhill.

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Speaker 7: So making the Barista's jobs easier.

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Speaker 8: Making it more enjoyable environment for them is going to

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Speaker 8: flow down to the consumer and then it's going to

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Speaker 8: result in better traffic and same source sales.

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Speaker 9: I was curious to get your thoughts, you know, Brian

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Speaker 9: Nichols said. The company said that they're pulling back this

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Speaker 9: guidance because the CEO needs more time to kind of

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Speaker 9: think through all this. How unprecedented is that just thirty seconds?

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Speaker 11: Uh?

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Speaker 7: No, it would be This is very common.

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Speaker 8: Any any good CEO worth his soult is going to

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Speaker 8: suspend guidance so they have more time to get their

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Speaker 8: initiatives in place.

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Speaker 7: This is huge.

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Speaker 8: Companies can take a long time for momentum to start

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Speaker 8: building in the right direction, and this is a wise.

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Speaker 5: Move our thanks to Michael Halen Bloomberg Intelligence senior restaurant

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Speaker 5: and food service analysts.

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Speaker 2: We move next to the Median entertainment space and Walt Disney.

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Speaker 5: This week, Disney named a former Morgan Stanley CEO, James Gorman,

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Speaker 5: chairman of the board. The company also said it will

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Speaker 5: appoint a new CEO in early twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 2: Nor and I were joined by Githa Rong Andathan Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: Intelligence analyst on US Media. We first asked Githa for

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Speaker 2: her thoughts on the latest with Disney's succession plan.

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Speaker 12: So I think this is the number one issue for

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Speaker 12: this company right now. I mean, succession planning has obviously

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Speaker 12: not been Disney's strong suit. You know, they had botched

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Speaker 12: succession attempts now multiple times, this is important. I mean,

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Speaker 12: you have arguably one of the best executives in the

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Speaker 12: business in James Gorman, who led such a smooth, orderly transition,

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Speaker 12: you know, in his own CEO transition, just did it

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Speaker 12: in five months with all internal candidates. So if it's

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Speaker 12: going to be orchestrated by him, I think obviously he's

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Speaker 12: been on the succession planning committee. It's his number one priority,

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Speaker 12: and I think it definitely gives investors a lot of confidence.

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Speaker 12: The one thing, though, that you know, you have to

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Speaker 12: mention here is that the early twenty twenty six time

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Speaker 12: frame that they have announced in terms of the new

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Speaker 12: CEO appointment, I think that's a little bit later than

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Speaker 12: what investors were expecting. I think most investors were expecting

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Speaker 12: it to happen in twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 5: I mean, things have really been tumultuous as we think

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Speaker 5: about succession plans. What are investors looking for from a

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Speaker 5: successor here?

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Speaker 12: So right now, all that we know is that you

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Speaker 12: have the four internal chiefs, you know, So you have

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Speaker 12: the parks chief Josh Tomorrow, you have ESPN's Jimmy Pittaro,

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Speaker 12: and you have the two big creative heads on the

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Speaker 12: TV and the film side, Dana Walden and Alan Bergman,

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Speaker 12: who are all front runners. So, you know, leading a

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Speaker 12: company like Disney is really really challenging because you know,

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Speaker 12: you had a parks guy in Bob Chapek who was

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Speaker 12: leading the company, and obviously that turned out not so

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Speaker 12: well because you know, the creative side was completely neglected.

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Speaker 12: And now you have Barbiger kind of coming back in

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Speaker 12: and cleaning up all those relationships that were broken with

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Speaker 12: the Hollywood community. So it's going to be interesting to

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Speaker 12: see whom he really picks. Obviously, the two front runners

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Speaker 12: here are Dana Walden, who is a very well known,

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Speaker 12: very well respected TV executive. She has deep, deep ties

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Speaker 12: in Hollywood. She actually came over from Fox. She has

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Speaker 12: built a lot of credibility within the industry, but she

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Speaker 12: has absolutely no experience with the parks business. And remember,

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Speaker 12: parks brings in almost fifty five to sixty percent of

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Speaker 12: Disney's profits, so this is critical to the future of

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Speaker 12: the company. Josh Tomorrow on the other side, of course,

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Speaker 12: he's an out and out parks guy, has absolutely no

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Speaker 12: experience with creative so this is where it gets really

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Speaker 12: really challenging. So it's going to be interesting to see

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Speaker 12: whether Barbiger things having that creative element is more important

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Speaker 12: or whether it's again going to be a parks pick

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Speaker 12: like Bob Schapeck.

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Speaker 2: So Githa, you know, probably the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: only one person counts, and it's not James Gorman, It's

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Speaker 2: not the board, it's Bob Eiger. What do you think

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Speaker 2: he wants to do? Will he be ready to go

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Speaker 2: when this happens.

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Speaker 12: I think he will be ready to go. The question

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Speaker 12: is does he want to stick with an internal candidate?

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Speaker 12: I mean we you know you know this very well, Paul.

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Speaker 12: He's been doing this now for a very very long time.

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Speaker 12: You know, there was first, of course the Jay Rozzulo thing.

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Speaker 12: Then of course there was Bob Japek. There's always kind

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Speaker 12: of been this proclivity towards an internal candidate. But having

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Speaker 12: said that, for the CFO, they did look outside with

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Speaker 12: Hugh Johnston. So again it's it's going to be interesting

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Speaker 12: to see what happens and what he really wants to prioritize.

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Speaker 12: If he thinks this time around the creative element is

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Speaker 12: going to be more important, or whether he wants more

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Speaker 12: of an operations kind of person. But I think yes,

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Speaker 12: he will, he will go. His contract ends in December

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Speaker 12: twenty twenty sixth.

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Speaker 5: Our thanks to GEETHA. Rogenathan Bloomberg Intelligence analysts on US media.

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Speaker 2: This week we focused on a Bloomberg Big Takes we're

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Speaker 2: entitled Cracked Skull, Broken Bones show Rivian's Plant Danger.

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Speaker 5: You can find it on Bloomberg dot Com and The Terminal.

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Speaker 5: The story looks at how interviews with factory workers show

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Speaker 5: serious safety issues at Rivian's only US plant.

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Speaker 2: For more, guest host Emily Grafao and I were joined

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Speaker 2: by Kyle Porter, Bloomberg Industrials reporter. We first asked Kyle

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Speaker 2: to discuss his findings at Rivian.

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Speaker 11: They're really struggling to build a safety culture that they

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Speaker 11: can be proud of. In short, there's been numerous incidents,

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Speaker 11: some of which you start that in the headline, or

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Speaker 11: those which we didn't put into the story. Or this,

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Speaker 11: which I haven't been investigated by OSHA. If you talk

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Speaker 11: to people out there in normal Illinois, a lot of

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Speaker 11: them go to work every day because it's the best

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Speaker 11: paid employer in the region, but they don't feel safe.

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Speaker 2: So I mean again, they only have one plant here.

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Speaker 2: I'm wondering, how did Rivian like if I were starting

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Speaker 2: up a new hotalk cup and I'd just go over

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Speaker 2: to Ford or GM or Stalantis steal a bunch of

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Speaker 2: their factory people and say, hey, guys, start building my

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Speaker 2: car here. How did Rivian do it? How is Rivian

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Speaker 2: kind of I guess learning on the job if you will.

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Speaker 11: Well, Rivian got a deal. The original the plan that

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Speaker 11: they have they purchased the sixteen million dollars been abandoned

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Speaker 11: by Mitsubishi when they were trying to make an electric

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Speaker 11: car in the US, so it's sort of all fell

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Speaker 11: into place. There were still workers from the time that

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Speaker 11: it was owned by Mitsubishi that could come in and work,

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Speaker 11: so they felt that they could get some muscle memory.

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Speaker 11: And then at the start they you know, it was

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Speaker 11: designed to be a very niche comaker, and then they

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Speaker 11: got the Amazon deal. Things exploded and they had to

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Speaker 11: ramp up.

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Speaker 2: So what's the company responding, like, how they've kind of

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Speaker 2: respond to this and do they have any policies in

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Speaker 2: place to try to address this, because I'm just looking

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Speaker 2: at another great graphic. Get you having a story that

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Speaker 2: just shows a number of serious violation sited and Ruvin's

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Speaker 2: at the top of that list.

439
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,400
Speaker 11: Yes it is, and as you pointed out, it's only

440
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,040
Speaker 11: one factory with eight thousand staff. Most of the companies

441
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 11: on that list have multiple sites and tens of thousands

442
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 11: of workers.

443
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:56,760
Speaker 2: I just want to know kind of have the companies

444
00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:57,400
Speaker 2: responding here.

445
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,879
Speaker 11: They're responded in great detail to us. It's fair to say.

446
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 11: They pointed out that most of the serious citations that

447
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,880
Speaker 11: they were issued were ultimately downgraded or in a couple

448
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,919
Speaker 11: of cases, dismiss which is true of most people that

449
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,919
Speaker 11: go through the citation process. And they pointed as to

450
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,800
Speaker 11: things that they've done to improve their safety processes. And indeed,

451
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 11: Osher itself has commended the company for being open and

452
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:20,880
Speaker 11: looking to improve itself in safety.

453
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:26,639
Speaker 2: So is any materially different than say a Tesla factory

454
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 2: or you know the other EV makers.

455
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 11: Well, it currently only builds two types of vehicle. You

456
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 11: have the Amazon truck, and then you have the R one,

457
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,200
Speaker 11: which comes into several bottles. It's a ne SUV in

458
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 11: a truck, and they're looking to ramp that up with

459
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,200
Speaker 11: an expansion with the R two next year. So it's smaller.

460
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 11: It's I think it's aiming to produce now. They actually

461
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,679
Speaker 11: cut their forecast this year about fifty thousand vehicles, so

462
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:54,440
Speaker 11: the scale of it is much smaller.

463
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 2: Does Rivin have the money to invest in their plants

464
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 2: into the safety because well, you look at the the

465
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 2: stocks of some of these companies that are just so volatile,

466
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:05,640
Speaker 2: and I wonder if they even really have the money

467
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 2: to invest in safety protocols.

468
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,880
Speaker 11: It's a question to ask the company that they say

469
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:11,719
Speaker 11: that they have a real commitment to safety and they

470
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 11: are investing in it.

471
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 2: Is it is making an evy?

472
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 4: I don't know.

473
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,919
Speaker 2: It seems like they're not building an internal combustion engine,

474
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 2: so they're not actually building an engine.

475
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 7: There is it?

476
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:23,639
Speaker 2: I would think the process is a lot different. Is

477
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 2: it any more or less dangerous as the industry said

478
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 2: versus say, a you know, traditional guess assembly plant.

479
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,919
Speaker 11: Given that you're building this thing from scratch, you know,

480
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,199
Speaker 11: from the engine upwards there's a lot of process that

481
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 11: has to be learned. There's a lot of things that

482
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 11: need to be learned. Indeed, one of the things that

483
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 11: the company was cited for was a movement vehicle that

484
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,639
Speaker 11: the engineers are designed and you know, wasn't safe for

485
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 11: employees to use. They were telling employees to be careful

486
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 11: until I she cited them and they figured out a

487
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 11: way to do it differently. And you could replicate that

488
00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 11: across a thousand examples, from how you attach the doors

489
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:01,959
Speaker 11: to how you put the glass in. You could go

490
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 11: on and on and on, and Rivian's had to work

491
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 11: out new and different ways of doing all these things

492
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:07,440
Speaker 11: for these new bespoke vehicles.

493
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,919
Speaker 2: But the employees, I guess they are. Are they aware

494
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 2: of the hazards when they take these jobs.

495
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 11: That's a very good question. It's rapidly becoming a company town.

496
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 11: Most of the people that we spoke to for the

497
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 11: story are one of several family members who work at

498
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,160
Speaker 11: the plant. They all talk about how when the plant

499
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 11: first opened, it was very small, very welcoming. You saw

500
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 11: members of senior management. It felt like a family. And

501
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 11: as production as ramp up, that's gone away and there's

502
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,240
Speaker 11: been a pressure just to produce.

503
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 2: Our thanks to Kyle Porter, Bloomberg Industrials Reporter and.

504
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 5: Coming up on the program, well look at where we

505
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 5: stand with nuclear reactor technology.

506
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 2: You're listening to Bloomberg Intelligence on Bloomberg Radio, providing in

507
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 2: depth research and data on two thousand companies and one

508
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 2: hundred and thirty industries. You can access Bloomberg Intelligence via

509
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,159
Speaker 2: b I go on the terminal, Paul Sweeney.

510
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 5: And I'm normal. Dup, this is Bloomberg.

511
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live

512
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on applecar Play and Android

513
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen

514
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station.

515
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 1: Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty M.

516
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 5: Paul Sweeney and I'm Normalinda filling in for Alex Steele.

517
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 5: We moved next to the telecommunications space. Both AT and

518
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 5: T and Verizon both reported third quarter earnings this week.

519
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 2: AT and T said it gained more mobile subscribers and

520
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 2: analysts expected well steady focus on its fiber optic network

521
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 2: and fixed wireless service.

522
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 5: But Verizon reported quarterly revenue that missed analyst expectations. The

523
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 5: company said it was weighed down by lackluster sales of

524
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 5: hardware such as mobile phones.

525
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 2: For more, guest host Emily Grafeo and I were joined

526
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 2: by John Butler, Bloomberg Intelligence senior telecom analyst. We first

527
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:53,800
Speaker 2: asked John for his take on what he saw from

528
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 2: AT and T this quarter.

529
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,360
Speaker 13: Mob Bell delivered It is what I would say. They

530
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 13: actually had a very steady quarter. The one thing I've

531
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 13: always liked about AT and T is they are the

532
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 13: steady hand in the telecom space, unlike technology. For example,

533
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,919
Speaker 13: in telecom, I always say a millimeter is a mile.

534
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 13: You know, if they edged out expectations on key metrics

535
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:24,199
Speaker 13: particularly and wireless and so, you know, steady as she

536
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 13: goes really a good story. And it continues to be

537
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 13: based on what I saw this quarter.

538
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 9: So they gain more mobile subscribers in the third quarter

539
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 9: than analysts expected. Where is that coming from? Is that

540
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 9: people switching from a competitor to AT and T?

541
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 13: Yeah, Emily, So what we're seeing in telecom is the

542
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 13: market is largely saturated, So when you see gains at

543
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 13: AT and T, it's typically coming from other carriers. We're

544
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 13: also seeing a big migration coming out of the prepaid

545
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 13: business as carriers like AT and T take their best

546
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:05,400
Speaker 13: credits out of that category and sort of elevate them

547
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 13: into the low end of the post paid space. The

548
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 13: other thing we're seeing our second line, So a lot

549
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 13: of people are actually getting second cell phones or adding

550
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 13: an additional line to their phone, and so we're getting

551
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 13: what I termed second line growth as well. So it's

552
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 13: really a combination of those factors that's at work there.

553
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 2: So John kind of zoom out a little bit. Look

554
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 2: at the wireless space in general. We've got you know, Verizon,

555
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 2: AT and T, T Mobile. I mean, it's got three big,

556
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 2: big players, and the pie is not growing a whole lot,

557
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 2: I don't think. So how do investors think about where

558
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,400
Speaker 2: to lay their wireless that's here between those three names, So.

559
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 13: Let me take it from the top. T Mobile continues

560
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 13: to be the growth name in the space. They have

561
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 13: I think, the strongest brand they've been out there with

562
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 13: a consumer friendly brand. It's very splashy, it resonates well

563
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 13: with the young people. When you look at those net

564
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 13: news subscribers coming in every quarter. Team mobile just continues

565
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 13: to be quartered and quarter out. As I said a

566
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 13: moment Ago, AT and T is this steady hand. They're

567
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 13: growing steadily, they're executing very well. And then at the

568
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 13: low end of that spectrum is Verizon. They've had some trouble,

569
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 13: they've been losing share in recent quarters. They're starting to

570
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 13: make the turn. So it's going to be interesting to

571
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 13: see the industry dynamics here as Verizon on the margin

572
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 13: gets better I think in coming quarters. So we're watching that.

573
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 13: But in terms of how the stack lays out, now,

574
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 13: that's that's where it is.

575
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 10: How are you thinking about AT and T and these

576
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 10: other wireless providers versus the traditional telecom companies because we've

577
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 10: learned in at least the AT and T earnings reports

578
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:02,959
Speaker 10: they're trying to get more into that traditional telecom business

579
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 10: laying out broadband fiber. Is it working.

580
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 13: Yeah, So if you look at the history of telecom,

581
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 13: AT and T and for Verizon are the old regional

582
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 13: bell operating companies. There are a number of them put together, actually,

583
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 13: and so they both still have a wireline business, a

584
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 13: fixed line network that they're using now to deliver and

585
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 13: really grow in the broadband space, and that is causing

586
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 13: convergence with the cable industry. Right the cable operators are

587
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 13: now getting into wireless, and telcos are all leaning into

588
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 13: broadband and having very good success building share and taking

589
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 13: share from the cable guys. So that's going to continue

590
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 13: to play out in coming quarters. And I think the

591
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 13: competitive edge that the telcos have is a lot of

592
00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 13: their networks are built on fiber, and so fiber is

593
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 13: the best long term solution for broadband. It's the highest

594
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 13: capacity and it stands up very well to environmental pressures.

595
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 2: How did the cable companies, then, John, compete? What's their

596
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 2: competitive I guess strengths versus AT and T and Verizon.

597
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,479
Speaker 13: I think so great question, Paul. You know, on the

598
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 13: broadband front, they're trying to upgrade their networks to what's

599
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 13: called doss for it's going to give them the ability

600
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 13: to offer the same upload and download speeds, which they

601
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 13: can't do now. The download speeds are very fast, but

602
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 13: the upload speeds are rather slow, so you don't get

603
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 13: that the metrical service, but hopefully coming soon. And I

604
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 13: think on the wireless side, they're capturing a lot of

605
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 13: share at the low end of the market. They're coming

606
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 13: in with some very compelling offers and it's working and

607
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 13: they're taking share from the telecoms.

608
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 5: And wireless to John Butler, Bloomberg Intelligence senior telecom analysts.

609
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 2: Each week we look at research from Bloomberg and EF

610
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 2: previously known as New Energy Finance.

611
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,240
Speaker 5: They're the team at Bloomberg that tracks and analyzes the

612
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 5: energy transition from commodities to power, transport, industries, buildings, and

613
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 5: agriculture sectors.

614
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 14: This week we.

615
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 2: Took a look at nuclear power and for the first

616
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 2: time in seventeen years, there are no nuclear reactors under

617
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 2: construction in the US.

618
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 5: For more, Paul and I were joined by Chris Gadomski,

619
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 5: be an EF lead nuclear analyst. We first asked Chris

620
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 5: where we stand with nuclear reactor technology.

621
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 14: Think about a football team or a basketball team and

622
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 14: you're sitting your best player on the bench, and there's

623
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 14: a lot of issues with regards to nuclear energy, but

624
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 14: it is a very, very robust technology that can provide

625
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 14: the twenty four to seven type of baseload power that

626
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:59,719
Speaker 14: many customers are looking for and interested in having. We

627
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 14: are are for the first time since two thousand and

628
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 14: seven without a reactor under construction, which is very, very discouraging,

629
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 14: especially in the context of the fact that China has

630
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 14: got something like twenty seven to twenty eight reactors under construction,

631
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 14: and Russia is building twenty two or twenty three reactors

632
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 14: around the world in six different countries. So what has

633
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 14: happened to the US nuclear industry. We've kind of dropped

634
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 14: the ball on large reactor construction. And there's a lot

635
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 14: of hope and a lot of cheerleading that some of

636
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 14: these advanced reactors are being developed by a whole slew

637
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 14: of companies will carry the day and provide an alternative

638
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 14: nuclear solution.

639
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 5: Talk us through just how long it takes to license

640
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 5: and build a lot of these larger reactors.

641
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 14: So though the AP one thousand that was built in

642
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 14: Vogel at a budget a cost of thirty four billion dollars,

643
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 14: it took about fifteen years to license and build. And

644
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 14: that's quite a long period of time. What utility executive

645
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 14: is going to look around and say, listen, let me

646
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 14: grab another one of these and spend that type of

647
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 14: cash and wait that long, Especially since the new technologies

648
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 14: intermittent renewables are coming on and they provide an alternatives,

649
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 14: and there's a lot of change in the utility industry

650
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 14: and the electric power industry, and hence it becomes a

651
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 14: pretty risky proposition to place a bet billions of dollars

652
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 14: for a technology that's not going to come and return

653
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 14: an investment for several different years. And there's several examples

654
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 14: not only in the US, but also in Europe where

655
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 14: this is going on.

656
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 2: Some of these smaller modular reactors that we hear about

657
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 2: that kind of seems like a reasonable solution to me.

658
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 2: I don't have to build this monster generator. I do

659
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 2: something smaller for maybe lower cost, presumably cheaper all the

660
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 2: kind of stuff.

661
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 14: Well, the question is is that we anticipate that those

662
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 14: reactors may be more expensive on a per kill a

663
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 14: wide basis, but the risk that they present to a

664
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 14: utility executive signing to invest this technology is less. You

665
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 14: can build them sequentially so that you get a cash

666
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 14: flow after the first one is up and running and

667
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,320
Speaker 14: now you're building the second one, as opposed to waiting

668
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,839
Speaker 14: the many years to get that. We anticipate that licensing

669
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 14: and building an SMR and will take about five to

670
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 14: six years, two years in the licensing process and three

671
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 14: or four years optimistically for construction. We don't anticipate any

672
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 14: of these advanced reactors coming online in North America until

673
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 14: twenty thirty.

674
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 10: How does this compare internationally.

675
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 14: Well, the US is a leader in the development of

676
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 14: advanced reactors and SMRs. There's only two SMRs that operate

677
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 14: around the world, one in China, one in Russia, and

678
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 14: only two under construction, one in China and one allegedly

679
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,359
Speaker 14: in Russia. They're supposed to break around soon. We have

680
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 14: a very interesting development in Wyoming with terror Power developing

681
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,399
Speaker 14: or replacing a coal plant with an advanced reactor, which

682
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 14: is very, very exciting. But they have not received a

683
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 14: construction permit for that reactor yet and they're still doing

684
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 14: preliminary work, and we anticipate that coming online around the

685
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 14: twenty thirties.

686
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 2: What's the feeling within the halls of Congress about this

687
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 2: power source? Is there any support for nuclear power or

688
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 2: is ideologically divided or where are we on this?

689
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,879
Speaker 14: It's certainly changing from being very very questioning and very

690
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 14: very nervous about it to be more accepting of the

691
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 14: technology because they realize the certain advantages of nuclear power.

692
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 14: I live in a solar powered house in California. I

693
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 14: get all of my electricity from solar energy. But when

694
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 14: you think about powering a large city or so, you

695
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 14: need something more than just intermittent renewables. Renewables are very

696
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 14: good solution for part of the problem, but they're not

697
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 14: a solution for the entire problem. So to displace some

698
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 14: of the fossil fuel that we see being used now,

699
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 14: we need to have a clean, carbon free source of

700
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 14: nuclear power. SMRs have greater flexibility, easier to bring online,

701
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 14: and hopefully they'll have a role to play in the future.

702
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 10: Well, let's talk about AI.

703
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 5: We think about data centers and the demand there, and

704
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 5: when we think about nuclear supplying these data centers. I

705
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 5: know you mentioned that this should be a pretty much

706
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 5: a post twenty thirty phenomenon, apart from the revival of

707
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 5: Three Mile Island by twenty twenty eight. Can you talk

708
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 5: a bit more about that.

709
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,840
Speaker 14: Yes, several studies that suggest that there's a tremendous demand

710
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 14: growth for nuclear power between now and twenty thirty. There

711
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 14: are some questions will that growth continue after twenty thirty

712
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 14: or will plateau for a while. I wish I could

713
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,760
Speaker 14: say that there'll be a solution from the advanced nuclear

714
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 14: community before twenty thirty, but if it is, it's just

715
00:36:58,239 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 14: going to be first of a kind one or two

716
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 14: WHO reactors, and the challenge is developing a supply chain

717
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 14: that can deliver a fleet of these advanced reactors to

718
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 14: really respond to the growing demand for electricity from the

719
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:13,280
Speaker 14: data centers.

720
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 5: Our thanks to Chris Kadomski, be any app lead Nuclear Analysts.

721
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:22,440
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722
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723
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724
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725
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