1
00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:04,440
Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, welcome to the Foundations podcast. I'm your host,

2
00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:08,160
Speaker 1: Tony Peterson, and today I have on Jordan Horrock, who's

3
00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:10,760
Speaker 1: one of the best dog trainers out there, and we're

4
00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:14,640
Speaker 1: going to discuss why you shouldn't underestimate puppies, even though

5
00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:22,280
Speaker 1: an awful lot of us do. This episode of Houndations

6
00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:25,320
Speaker 1: is brought to you by Shields, which is the place

7
00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:30,240
Speaker 1: to go if you need new dog training gear, leashes, bompers, crates,

8
00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:33,720
Speaker 1: e callers, and just about anything and everything you need

9
00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,280
Speaker 1: to have a better life with your sporting dog can

10
00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:39,120
Speaker 1: be found in any one of their stores, and if

11
00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,040
Speaker 1: you don't have one close, don't worry. You can check

12
00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:46,960
Speaker 1: them out at shiels dot com. It's the dog days

13
00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:50,200
Speaker 1: of May here at Meat Eater, and we've finally gone

14
00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,320
Speaker 1: above Steve Vanella's head, who, by the way, is a

15
00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:57,800
Speaker 1: huge cat person. Anyway, we've decided that it's time to

16
00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,800
Speaker 1: celebrate our love of dogs, and this is going to

17
00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:02,880
Speaker 1: be a fun one because now we're doing some full

18
00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:07,000
Speaker 1: length interviews here in honor of that love of dogs,

19
00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:09,559
Speaker 1: and I get to talk to my really good friend

20
00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,520
Speaker 1: Jordan Horrock, who's just such an interesting trainer. He has

21
00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,800
Speaker 1: a really soft style and it just works with a

22
00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:18,880
Speaker 1: lot of dogs. He figures out how to get them

23
00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:19,800
Speaker 1: to work for him.

24
00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:20,640
Speaker 2: Uh.

25
00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:25,720
Speaker 1: He's also got some serious accomplishments behind him, you know,

26
00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:30,160
Speaker 1: national field trials. He owns two dog companies. One that

27
00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,800
Speaker 1: you maybe have heard of is Cato Outdoors, which makes

28
00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,120
Speaker 1: a really cool place board. He's just one of the

29
00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,839
Speaker 1: best at explaining, you know, why he trains the way

30
00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,640
Speaker 1: he does. He's also really good at getting puppies started

31
00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:44,800
Speaker 1: the right way, and that is the bulk of what

32
00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:50,960
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about in this episode. Jordan Horrock,

33
00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,160
Speaker 1: it is a pleasure to see your smiling face and

34
00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:58,000
Speaker 1: to UH to get you on this podcast. We are

35
00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,160
Speaker 1: starting to do full length interviews and you are the

36
00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:04,520
Speaker 1: first guest I reached out to UH to talk to

37
00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,400
Speaker 1: about dogs because you're one of the most knowledgeable and

38
00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,440
Speaker 1: interesting dog trainers out there. So thanks for coming on, buddy.

39
00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, Tony, it's it's my pleasure. I'm excited to do this.

40
00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:18,480
Speaker 1: So you and I, you and I go aways back.

41
00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:20,920
Speaker 1: We met. We met down in Saint Louis for a

42
00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:25,239
Speaker 1: Peeriana event a while back, and I watched you put

43
00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,320
Speaker 1: on a demonstration with a springer. Then and it was

44
00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:32,960
Speaker 1: an interesting thing to see sort of how you handle dogs,

45
00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:34,720
Speaker 1: and we're going to get into this and how you

46
00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:36,880
Speaker 1: approach dogs and your demeanor and everything. I really want

47
00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:38,600
Speaker 1: to talk to you about that. But I remember thinking,

48
00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,800
Speaker 1: this guy's vibe is different from a lot of a

49
00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:44,680
Speaker 1: lot of the trainers that I had had exposure to.

50
00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,720
Speaker 1: And there were all of these I don't remember how

51
00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,040
Speaker 1: many people were there, probably two dozen or more at

52
00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,800
Speaker 1: one point, and there were all these like rumblings in

53
00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,040
Speaker 1: these whisperings about this you know, field National Field Trial

54
00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,280
Speaker 1: Championship that you had just won, and how you had

55
00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:03,560
Speaker 1: really sort of taken like the spaniel world by storm.

56
00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:05,840
Speaker 1: And to me, you know, I didn't know anything about that.

57
00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:07,160
Speaker 1: I was just watching you train. I was like, man,

58
00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:09,359
Speaker 1: this guy's style is pretty cool, But can you give

59
00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,160
Speaker 1: the listeners just like a little rundown on your history

60
00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:13,840
Speaker 1: and how you got to be where you are as

61
00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:15,200
Speaker 1: a pro trainer today.

62
00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. Sure, So I think I took a different approach

63
00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,520
Speaker 2: than a lot of people. I kind of lived in

64
00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,360
Speaker 2: the trenches for probably almost a decade where I was

65
00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:28,360
Speaker 2: just doing my own thing, reading books, watching videos every

66
00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:30,000
Speaker 2: once in a while, and might get a little bit

67
00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,640
Speaker 2: of help from somebody, but for the most part, I

68
00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:34,239
Speaker 2: was just kind of doing my own thing. And I

69
00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:38,400
Speaker 2: think that's probably resulted in me having a different approach

70
00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,680
Speaker 2: than most people because I'm not really trying to copy anybody.

71
00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,120
Speaker 2: And I also spent a long long time not caring

72
00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,480
Speaker 2: what anybody thought. Like I didn't have a social media presence,

73
00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:51,360
Speaker 2: I wasn't doing podcasts, like. It was just me and

74
00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,760
Speaker 2: my dogs and me trying to figure out, like how

75
00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,200
Speaker 2: to win a Nationals. And really that was what I

76
00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,840
Speaker 2: was trying to do, like, and I told, like my

77
00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,800
Speaker 2: wife knew, like that is the plan. I was trying

78
00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:05,120
Speaker 2: to win a national. So for the first like five

79
00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,200
Speaker 2: or six years, I didn't even run in trials. I

80
00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,000
Speaker 2: just trained dogs, trying to figure out the game, trying

81
00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:11,880
Speaker 2: to like figure out how to get the dogs to

82
00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:16,160
Speaker 2: that level. And then twenty and fifteen, I actually fall

83
00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,160
Speaker 2: of twenty fourteen, I started to run in trials and

84
00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:23,080
Speaker 2: just in a couple of them. Twenty fifteen I placed

85
00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,240
Speaker 2: third at the Nationals with the dog named Breeze, and

86
00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,520
Speaker 2: then twenty and eighteen I won the Amateur Nationals with

87
00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,240
Speaker 2: Breeze in the spring, and then in the fall I

88
00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:36,479
Speaker 2: won the Open Nationals with a dog named Cato. After that,

89
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,280
Speaker 2: I started Cato Outdoors with the dog training platform. Some

90
00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,960
Speaker 2: of your listeners may be familiar with those I still

91
00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,360
Speaker 2: today own. I think we have like nine dogs here.

92
00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:48,800
Speaker 2: We bring in like one or two at a time

93
00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,120
Speaker 2: for training. My daughter helps me with those. Actually she

94
00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:53,600
Speaker 2: does the majority of the training with them. I more

95
00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:58,160
Speaker 2: help her and then so it's kind of gone back

96
00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,640
Speaker 2: to almost being a hobby because Kate Outdoors with the

97
00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,800
Speaker 2: platforms has taken so much time. But we we do

98
00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:06,719
Speaker 2: one or two litters a year. We trained a couple

99
00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:08,520
Speaker 2: of dogs that aren't ours, and then we spend a

100
00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:10,880
Speaker 2: lot of time with our own dogs. So that's kind

101
00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,840
Speaker 2: of and you know my approach as we get into

102
00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:15,960
Speaker 2: this podcast, hopefully you can pull some of it out

103
00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,400
Speaker 2: of me, but I try to take more of a

104
00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,400
Speaker 2: I guess like a relationship based approach to dog trading.

105
00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,800
Speaker 2: So instead of like X Y ZB, like we follow

106
00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,599
Speaker 2: this process and you know, just check all the boxes,

107
00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:34,120
Speaker 2: it's more of an individualized approach to each dog and

108
00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:37,080
Speaker 2: more trying to figure out what makes them tick and

109
00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,840
Speaker 2: like how can how can I develop them into what

110
00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,919
Speaker 2: I want so that it looks different for every dog,

111
00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:47,000
Speaker 2: but I would say like the over overarching principles stay

112
00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:49,680
Speaker 2: the same, like connect with the dog, figure out what

113
00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,360
Speaker 2: makes them tick, and then you know, work that into

114
00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:53,279
Speaker 2: a final product.

115
00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:56,880
Speaker 1: So you I mean, if you were to go out

116
00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:02,880
Speaker 1: there right now and you know, just just contact pro trainers,

117
00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,520
Speaker 1: you know, do a little Google search whatever in your area,

118
00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,200
Speaker 1: I don't know what percentage of trainers you would contact

119
00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,960
Speaker 1: who started with somebody else, went out and did their

120
00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,880
Speaker 1: own thing and so so basically kind of studied under

121
00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,320
Speaker 1: somebody who has established got enough experience until they felt

122
00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:21,120
Speaker 1: like they could go do their thing and split out.

123
00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:22,880
Speaker 1: I mean, that's like a very common trope in the

124
00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,320
Speaker 1: dog training world, is right like you know you train,

125
00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:27,760
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, it just it just is. But

126
00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:31,479
Speaker 1: you didn't, you didn't go that route. And there's a

127
00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,440
Speaker 1: really important distinction there, I think, and a lot of

128
00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,560
Speaker 1: people will look at, you know, some of the trainers

129
00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:39,760
Speaker 1: with a really good name behind a really good reputation,

130
00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:43,240
Speaker 1: and there's almost like a formula for all dogs right

131
00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,599
Speaker 1: if there, if they're a lab trainer or corner trainer whatever,

132
00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,000
Speaker 1: where they're like, you know, you do this, you do this,

133
00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,640
Speaker 1: you do this, you do that, and it's like a

134
00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,159
Speaker 1: lot of people who will never get their hands on

135
00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,839
Speaker 1: hundreds of dogs will look at that and go, I

136
00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:00,719
Speaker 1: don't I don't really know how to follow that that program,

137
00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,520
Speaker 1: and you know, it's not a style that's like you

138
00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,280
Speaker 1: can absorb easily, and so they drop their dog off,

139
00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:09,359
Speaker 1: it gets trained a certain way, it comes back. They don't,

140
00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,480
Speaker 1: you know, follow all the same rules, there's some attrition whatever,

141
00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:14,600
Speaker 1: Like it's kind of a it's a story that happens

142
00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:19,000
Speaker 1: a lot. But your style is connect with the individual

143
00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,800
Speaker 1: dog and develop that dog how it needs to be developed.

144
00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:27,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say, so, I don't. Actually people ask

145
00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:29,840
Speaker 2: me like do you have like have you written a

146
00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,080
Speaker 2: book on this, or like do you have documentation? And

147
00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:35,800
Speaker 2: it kind of sinks, to be honest, because I can't.

148
00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:37,920
Speaker 2: Really I really don't feel like I can write a

149
00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,560
Speaker 2: book on it because every dog is so different. Like

150
00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:44,960
Speaker 2: I don't like each session. I go into it with

151
00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:46,720
Speaker 2: a little bit of a game plan on what I

152
00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:51,280
Speaker 2: want to accomplish, but almost every session ends up taking

153
00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:54,800
Speaker 2: a different turn at some point. And I would say,

154
00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,040
Speaker 2: of the I think it kept track, but I would

155
00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,400
Speaker 2: imagine I've trained one hundred and fifty to maybe two

156
00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,440
Speaker 2: hundred dogs at this point, and I can honestly say, like, well,

157
00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,120
Speaker 2: there's a bunch of overlap, Like, for sure, I'll do

158
00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,240
Speaker 2: the same drills with a lot of dogs, but every

159
00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:11,840
Speaker 2: single one of those dogs has taken a little bit

160
00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,200
Speaker 2: of a different path to get to a finished product

161
00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,960
Speaker 2: because they're all developing at different speeds. They all have

162
00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:23,840
Speaker 2: different strengths, different weaknesses. I always like to I feel

163
00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,240
Speaker 2: like my clients with people that I talk to, can

164
00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,120
Speaker 2: most relate like when I connect it to humans. So

165
00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,640
Speaker 2: when I relate or connect dog training to humans. I

166
00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,559
Speaker 2: have four kids, and each one of them is very,

167
00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:40,360
Speaker 2: very different. So if I were to pick up one

168
00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:45,400
Speaker 2: book and on parenting or maybe on sports development with kids,

169
00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,520
Speaker 2: there's no way that there's any one book out there

170
00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,240
Speaker 2: that can address all four of my kids, because all

171
00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,280
Speaker 2: four kids are so different from each other. Even though

172
00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:58,120
Speaker 2: they're all siblings, they're still very, very different. I think

173
00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,240
Speaker 2: dogs are the exact same way. And when we try

174
00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:04,120
Speaker 2: to almost objectify them and say like almost like turn

175
00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,680
Speaker 2: them into a robot, right, like, well, here's the process.

176
00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:08,560
Speaker 2: First you do this, then you do this, then you

177
00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:13,400
Speaker 2: do this. I think a lot of those systems. They

178
00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,160
Speaker 2: have merit for sure, and there's some been some incredible

179
00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,720
Speaker 2: dogs that have been trained through systems. So this isn't

180
00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:23,079
Speaker 2: like this is I'm just contrasting. I'm not saying anybody

181
00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,400
Speaker 2: anybody else is doing it. There's many ways to get

182
00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,720
Speaker 2: to the end. My approach, though, is every dog is

183
00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:32,000
Speaker 2: different and they all need something different at different times.

184
00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:36,000
Speaker 2: So as a dog trainer, I feel like my responsibility

185
00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,640
Speaker 2: is to be constantly problem solving and reading the dog

186
00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,240
Speaker 2: and coming up with game plans on the fly in

187
00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,760
Speaker 2: order to move the needle in the direction I want

188
00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:45,000
Speaker 2: to go.

189
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, when when you talk about uh, you know,

190
00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:52,040
Speaker 1: somebody who you know kind of offers up a formula

191
00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:56,120
Speaker 1: right there there, there is merit to that, right, Here's

192
00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,240
Speaker 1: how you social now, here's how you get the dog

193
00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:03,840
Speaker 1: to you know, place or whatever your goal is. But

194
00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:08,079
Speaker 1: there's also all these sort of intangibles like confidence and

195
00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:10,800
Speaker 1: the dogs drive and how it's feeling that day, and

196
00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,320
Speaker 1: you know whether it can work for you know, ten

197
00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,600
Speaker 1: minutes or an hour. I mean, there's so much to

198
00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:18,560
Speaker 1: the individual and I think that a lot of times.

199
00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:20,400
Speaker 1: I mean, when you say that, it reminds me of

200
00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,920
Speaker 1: my entire writing career has been pretty heavy on how

201
00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,760
Speaker 1: to stuff, and I realize that you have to like

202
00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,760
Speaker 1: tease out some kind of lesson in an article and

203
00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:36,560
Speaker 1: just be like, here's how I hunt bucks in the cattails,

204
00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,640
Speaker 1: because that's like that I have to narrow it down

205
00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:41,600
Speaker 1: because otherwise, if you're like, how to kill mature bucks,

206
00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:45,280
Speaker 1: it's like, well, in Pennsylvania or Florida or you know,

207
00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,800
Speaker 1: North Dakota on public private how much time do you have,

208
00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,880
Speaker 1: how much experience you start getting into it. And so

209
00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,520
Speaker 1: what you're talking about is literally doing that work for

210
00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:59,480
Speaker 1: yourself and going I have this kind of dog, and

211
00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,520
Speaker 1: I'm learning about this dog as we train, and so yeah,

212
00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:06,120
Speaker 1: there's some valuable lessons in that. You know, gunfire introduction

213
00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,360
Speaker 1: system that this guy does, for sure, but my dogs

214
00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,080
Speaker 1: a little more cagey or a little more of this

215
00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:12,600
Speaker 1: or a little more of that, and so it has

216
00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,280
Speaker 1: to be tweaked. And it's it's an important lesson for

217
00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,360
Speaker 1: anyone listening to this who's not a professional trainer to go, Okay, like,

218
00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,000
Speaker 1: there's there's something here that I can use for my dogs,

219
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:23,120
Speaker 1: because I'm in the same boat.

220
00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So like if you were to go let's

221
00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,640
Speaker 2: say you're having a problem with your computer. You can

222
00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,960
Speaker 2: plug that like into Google Search. Like, hey, for some reason,

223
00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,880
Speaker 2: you know, whatever is not happening, you plug it into Google.

224
00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:40,839
Speaker 2: And computers are very repeatable, right, Like, they're all if

225
00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,199
Speaker 2: it's a MAC, it's a mac. If it's if it's

226
00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:46,240
Speaker 2: a PC, it's a PC. Like, but it's all very repeatable.

227
00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,120
Speaker 2: With dogs, that's very different. So somebody asks me, like, hey,

228
00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:54,280
Speaker 2: how should I introduce my dog to gunfire? Well, exactly

229
00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,320
Speaker 2: what you said. Like, one dog, I think you could

230
00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:58,600
Speaker 2: take them out to the firing range and blast over

231
00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:00,320
Speaker 2: their head right from the start, and they're not going

232
00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,520
Speaker 2: to care because that's their personality. Maybe it has a

233
00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:05,840
Speaker 2: little bit to do with their environment, but largely that's

234
00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,839
Speaker 2: their personality. The next dog, you know, here's a firecracker

235
00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,640
Speaker 2: go off three blocks away, and it's gunshy for life

236
00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:16,240
Speaker 2: because it's a completely different dog. So yeah, like, as

237
00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,360
Speaker 2: we would, it would be so awesome if as dog

238
00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:21,920
Speaker 2: owners we could just read a book and follow that

239
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,280
Speaker 2: process and have exactly what we wanted as a final result.

240
00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:29,040
Speaker 2: But just like with parenting, there is no one book

241
00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:30,720
Speaker 2: that if you read that book, you'll be the most

242
00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,280
Speaker 2: amazing parent. There's also no one book that will tell

243
00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,720
Speaker 2: you everything you need to know about dog training. I

244
00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:41,240
Speaker 2: really think dog training is it's problem solving, it's thinking

245
00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,720
Speaker 2: on your feet, it's reading the dog in front of you.

246
00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,720
Speaker 2: And hopefully as we get into like puppy development here,

247
00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:48,960
Speaker 2: which I think is the next kind of piece we

248
00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:53,199
Speaker 2: talk about. I think puppy development and building a foundation

249
00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:57,520
Speaker 2: where you're learning to communicate with that puppy as much

250
00:12:57,559 --> 00:12:59,760
Speaker 2: as that puppy is learning to work with you. I

251
00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,040
Speaker 2: think once once you have that foundation, it's amazing how

252
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,920
Speaker 2: it feeds into the more complex things with adult dogs.

253
00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:09,520
Speaker 1: And that's what I want to talk to you about

254
00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:11,720
Speaker 1: for sure, is I mean, there's a lot of stuff

255
00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:12,840
Speaker 1: I want to get into, but I want to talk

256
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,440
Speaker 1: to you about puppies because you're running, or I shouldn't

257
00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,360
Speaker 1: say running. You have a springer litter hanging out at

258
00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:23,319
Speaker 1: your house currently, and you posted some stuff about you

259
00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,760
Speaker 1: kind of built a little obstacle course for these puppies,

260
00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:30,120
Speaker 1: and that is something that I really want to get

261
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,199
Speaker 1: into because I know you hear this.

262
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:32,959
Speaker 2: I hear this.

263
00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,320
Speaker 1: People will get a puppy, you know that eight week

264
00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,360
Speaker 1: old whatever comes home and you'll talk to them. They're

265
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,480
Speaker 1: out walking it whatever, getting a bunch attention, and they're like, yeah,

266
00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,360
Speaker 1: I'm gonna start training it when it's three months or

267
00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,360
Speaker 1: five months because it's not ready now. And I know

268
00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,200
Speaker 1: that that's sort of an antiquated worldview on dogs, but

269
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,320
Speaker 1: it still exists. And even the people who are like, no,

270
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna treat train from day one, I'm get that

271
00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,760
Speaker 1: puppy to sit and start to stay and like start

272
00:13:55,800 --> 00:14:00,320
Speaker 1: these little tiny lessons, they still often underestimate what puppies

273
00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,680
Speaker 1: can do. And that I think your little Springer experiment

274
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,360
Speaker 1: was like a really kind of neat way to frame

275
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:05,719
Speaker 1: that up.

276
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'll, yeah, let me get into that just

277
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,080
Speaker 2: a second before I do. I'm gonna I've thought about

278
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:16,640
Speaker 2: this a lot because like, puppies can do so many things.

279
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,520
Speaker 2: On the other hand, like so many puppies get burned

280
00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,800
Speaker 2: out because they are taught too many things when they're young.

281
00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:28,680
Speaker 2: So my theory or my philosophy on this is puppies

282
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:35,320
Speaker 2: have like incredible like resiliency and curiosity, like it's their

283
00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:39,480
Speaker 2: formulative years or they're months when they're little, right, like

284
00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:41,440
Speaker 2: just like a kid in the first ten years of

285
00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,440
Speaker 2: their life is learning like more than they will probably

286
00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:46,480
Speaker 2: in the rest of their life combined. I don't know

287
00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,480
Speaker 2: that for sure, but I'm guessing that's probably true. The

288
00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,080
Speaker 2: same thing for a puppy, Like the first handful of

289
00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,360
Speaker 2: months in their life, they're probably going to learn more

290
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,320
Speaker 2: in that time than they do the rest of their life.

291
00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:58,840
Speaker 2: So they have this they do have this huge capacity

292
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,640
Speaker 2: to learn at at the same time, no different than kids,

293
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,720
Speaker 2: they have a really short attention span. So I think

294
00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,200
Speaker 2: that if we if we want to like just grind

295
00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,000
Speaker 2: with that puppy where it's like you know we do

296
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:13,800
Speaker 2: we teach sit for a half hour a day, and

297
00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:17,160
Speaker 2: we teach laid down, and and we do retrieves over

298
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,080
Speaker 2: and over and over again. I think if we're asking

299
00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,320
Speaker 2: them to do unnatural things without a clear reward at

300
00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,760
Speaker 2: the end, I think we can burn puppies out really

301
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:31,680
Speaker 2: really quickly. On the other hand, food is like food

302
00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,080
Speaker 2: is this natural desire that every dog and every puppy

303
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,920
Speaker 2: has right like they're born with it and they'll have

304
00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:40,280
Speaker 2: it for their entire life. So that's a great tool

305
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,560
Speaker 2: that we can use to give them longer lessons when

306
00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,120
Speaker 2: they're when they're younger and I think we can do

307
00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,760
Speaker 2: longer lessons when it's more like it's not even like

308
00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,440
Speaker 2: a formal lesson, it's more just like a lifestyle thing.

309
00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:57,520
Speaker 2: So so that obstacle course that you reference. I had

310
00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:59,880
Speaker 2: seen some things kind of similar to this in the

311
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,720
Speaker 2: protection dog world with a lot of like malain laws

312
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,960
Speaker 2: and shepherds, and I thought it would be a cool

313
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,360
Speaker 2: thing to try with my spaniels. And I lay and

314
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,760
Speaker 2: in bed at night, we're having trouble shut and my

315
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,080
Speaker 2: brain down, like, oh, I should build I could build

316
00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:14,920
Speaker 2: this thing. So I came up with this idea, a

317
00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,360
Speaker 2: design in my head. My one of my sons who's sporteen,

318
00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,600
Speaker 2: he's really good in the wood shop, and I love

319
00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,360
Speaker 2: giving in projects out there. So I just took a

320
00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,360
Speaker 2: sheet of paper and scratched out like a really rough

321
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,680
Speaker 2: draw and told him to go to town with it.

322
00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,360
Speaker 2: And like a couple hours later, he's got the thing

323
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:36,360
Speaker 2: halfway built and we had and I'm gonna my so

324
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,240
Speaker 2: my Instagram for my dogs is Juggernaut gun Dogs, and

325
00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,920
Speaker 2: I'm going to make sure to like bookmark or save

326
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:44,640
Speaker 2: that video so it'll be the first thing on there.

327
00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:46,920
Speaker 2: Because it's a little bit buried, right now. But when

328
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,320
Speaker 2: people watch this or listen to this, it'd be great

329
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,040
Speaker 2: if they could go check that video out. But I

330
00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,120
Speaker 2: have the this obstacle course where the puppies come in

331
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,640
Speaker 2: and they they go across this piece of steel that

332
00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:59,800
Speaker 2: has some holes in it, and then they go through a

333
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:04,040
Speaker 2: real small maze. Then they go through up onto a platform.

334
00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:05,879
Speaker 2: Then they go through a bucket that has the bottom

335
00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:07,919
Speaker 2: cut out of it, so it's like a tunnel. Then

336
00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,840
Speaker 2: I have a broom that's upside down with bristles sticking up,

337
00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:13,440
Speaker 2: so they've got to run through the bristles. Then there's

338
00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,560
Speaker 2: a platform that swings, and then there's some rods they

339
00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:20,720
Speaker 2: have to go through, and then some soda bottles hanging

340
00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,440
Speaker 2: from the top, and then they jump over a little

341
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:25,520
Speaker 2: bit of a wall, and then they're at the end

342
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:30,040
Speaker 2: and there's the food. And so we built this thing. Obviously,

343
00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:32,760
Speaker 2: it was way too long for a six week old

344
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:34,880
Speaker 2: or seven week old puppy, and I think we started

345
00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,359
Speaker 2: it when they were like roughly six weeks old. And

346
00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,119
Speaker 2: it was really cool, Tony, because we put them in

347
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,520
Speaker 2: at the very end and we had it backwards, so

348
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:46,960
Speaker 2: all they had to do is like go around one

349
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,080
Speaker 2: wall which was the maze. We have the maze like

350
00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,879
Speaker 2: consolidated or reduced down to one wall. All they had

351
00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,760
Speaker 2: to do is go through, like around one corner and

352
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,400
Speaker 2: they would have been at their food. So we set

353
00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:03,359
Speaker 2: the puppies in and they started crying, like frustrated. They're

354
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,760
Speaker 2: like jumping up on the wall and like they had

355
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,119
Speaker 2: no they had absolutely no clue what to do, and

356
00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:09,440
Speaker 2: all they had to do was just go around the

357
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:11,720
Speaker 2: corner and there was the food. They couldn't figure it out.

358
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,560
Speaker 2: And honestly, it was like a little bit tempting to

359
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,000
Speaker 2: help them out, you know, to go in there and like, hey, look,

360
00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:20,639
Speaker 2: you know you just have to go this way. And

361
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:22,719
Speaker 2: I had the kids out there with me, and they

362
00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,760
Speaker 2: were tempted, i think two to intervene. But we just

363
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:27,840
Speaker 2: stood there and watched. We didn't make a big deal

364
00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,199
Speaker 2: about it. We didn't tell they were good puppies, and

365
00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,720
Speaker 2: we didn't add any commotion or noise or anything. We

366
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:37,160
Speaker 2: just let them figure it out. And pretty soon one

367
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,160
Speaker 2: of them like went through backwards, like literally his butt

368
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,359
Speaker 2: went around the corner first, and then he was like, hey,

369
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,800
Speaker 2: what's going He turns around and like, oh, there's the food.

370
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,480
Speaker 2: Starts eating, and then here comes another one, and then

371
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,040
Speaker 2: pretty soon there was nine puppies originally in that litter,

372
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,560
Speaker 2: and I still have six of them here, but there

373
00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,399
Speaker 2: were nine at that time. Pretty soon all nine of

374
00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,399
Speaker 2: them come around the corner and they're chowing down on

375
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,240
Speaker 2: the food. And it was it was such a little thing,

376
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,040
Speaker 2: like if you were watching it, you're like, well, that

377
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,440
Speaker 2: was dumb, Like they just went around a corner. Right

378
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,960
Speaker 2: next speeding time, we did it again, and every single

379
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,080
Speaker 2: one of them, without without hesitation, we set them in there.

380
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,120
Speaker 2: They ran around the corner and started eating. So then

381
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,600
Speaker 2: we added another obstacle. I think they had to climb

382
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:22,719
Speaker 2: over the wall, which was a really low wall, and

383
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,920
Speaker 2: I was trying to be really aware of their joints.

384
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,360
Speaker 2: You know, with a little puppy mentally, they might want

385
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,960
Speaker 2: to do a lot more than what their body can

386
00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:36,280
Speaker 2: can withstand. So those joints are really soft and forming.

387
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,280
Speaker 2: So everything in the obstacle course is designed to be

388
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,880
Speaker 2: really really low impact and not much elevation change because

389
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,399
Speaker 2: I don't really want them jumping down or jumping up

390
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,119
Speaker 2: on top of anything too much. So there's just a

391
00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:50,000
Speaker 2: low wall at the end. We put that in there.

392
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,800
Speaker 2: It was funny. Some of them like actually just like

393
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,240
Speaker 2: ran into the wall, like just it's like a it's

394
00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,960
Speaker 2: like a little newborn bird coming out of the nests,

395
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,360
Speaker 2: you know, like they have no no clue what their

396
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,679
Speaker 2: capacity is. And pretty soon they figured out like, oh,

397
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:06,720
Speaker 2: I can kind of climb over this wall. And we

398
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,680
Speaker 2: just every feeding time we would add roughly one more

399
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:15,040
Speaker 2: obstacle within that obstacle course, and they it was amazing

400
00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,080
Speaker 2: because they took it all astride. Like I would put

401
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,800
Speaker 2: something in there, like the bucket. We cut the end

402
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:21,520
Speaker 2: out of this bucket, and I'm like, oh, that's going

403
00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:23,280
Speaker 2: to throw some of them for a loop, right, Like

404
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:25,760
Speaker 2: that's a little bit of a scary thing to shoot,

405
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:29,000
Speaker 2: you know, to climb through this slippery bucket. And they

406
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,560
Speaker 2: didn't even hesitate. They just shot right through that thing.

407
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,800
Speaker 2: So by the end, we could set them down at

408
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,720
Speaker 2: the start of it and they would immediately run through

409
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,439
Speaker 2: that obstacle course because they knew there was food at

410
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:50,240
Speaker 2: the other end. We started putting the food at the

411
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,600
Speaker 2: other end while the puppies were running around, and the

412
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,200
Speaker 2: food was enclosed in a pen so they couldn't cheat

413
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,800
Speaker 2: and just go right to the food, and we started

414
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,000
Speaker 2: calling them back to the start of the obstacle course,

415
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,439
Speaker 2: so they had to go away from the food, like

416
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 2: they had to listen to us, come away from the

417
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,359
Speaker 2: food twenty four feet because that's how long it is,

418
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,280
Speaker 2: and then go through the obstacle course and get the food.

419
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,080
Speaker 2: And at the start when we did that, a lot

420
00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,320
Speaker 2: of those actually almost all those puppies were like they

421
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,840
Speaker 2: couldn't understand it, Like the food was right in front

422
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:22,760
Speaker 2: of their face, just on the other side of the fence,

423
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 2: and they were just consumed with trying to get the

424
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:27,920
Speaker 2: food right there. So we didn't maybe have to pick

425
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:29,800
Speaker 2: them up and carry them to the end and then

426
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,280
Speaker 2: set them down and maybe one would follow along. But

427
00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 2: after like four or five sessions of that, we could

428
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 2: put the food at the end and almost every one

429
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,200
Speaker 2: of those puppies would take off running on their own

430
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:43,879
Speaker 2: to go to the start, like we wouldn't even have

431
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:48,359
Speaker 2: to call them anymore. So we really like we talked.

432
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 2: They learned some really complex behaviors there, like they learned

433
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 2: to go away from a reward in order to get

434
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:57,320
Speaker 2: that reward, which is later on in training, Like that's

435
00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:59,920
Speaker 2: a really big concept for a dog, like Okay, that's

436
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,439
Speaker 2: what I want, but the fastest way to get that

437
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 2: is to go do a job first, so that that

438
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,879
Speaker 2: was a really big concept for them. They also like

439
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:14,040
Speaker 2: the fearlessness of going through that course is it was

440
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 2: really really cool to see how like even there's like

441
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:19,720
Speaker 2: one or two puppies in that litter that were just

442
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,880
Speaker 2: a little bit more reserved, especially at the start, and

443
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,399
Speaker 2: after like a week or two of that, they were

444
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 2: all the same. Like the ones that were more reserved,

445
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,200
Speaker 2: their confidence level was so high. The ones that had

446
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 2: a lot of confidence initially, they it didn't it didn't

447
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:37,920
Speaker 2: deter them at all, Like I think it just built

448
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 2: their confidence. So it's those puppies now are eleven weeks old.

449
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:44,879
Speaker 2: They'll be a little bit older by the time you

450
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:49,119
Speaker 2: release this audio, I think, but at eleven weeks it's funny.

451
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 2: Yesterday I had a friend over and he hadn't been

452
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:53,919
Speaker 2: over since we had this litter. He had seen the

453
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,199
Speaker 2: video and he wanted to see them go through the

454
00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:00,439
Speaker 2: obstacle course, which we stopped using the obstacle when they

455
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 2: were about nine weeks old because they were they're starting

456
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 2: to look for alternative ways to get through, like they

457
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 2: were getting more creative, like maybe we can go over

458
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 2: this instead of under, And I didn't want them to

459
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 2: hurt themselves, but for the sake of entertainment, I we

460
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 2: did this for my buddy yesterday, and it was like

461
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 2: Kama Kazi's running through this thing, like instead of trying

462
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 2: to go through the maze, like some of them were

463
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 2: like going over the top of it, and they're trying

464
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 2: to go over the bucket instead of through it. And

465
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 2: so I'm like, Okay, well, we won't do that again

466
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 2: because I don't want anybody to get hurt. But it

467
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:37,360
Speaker 2: was also cool to see how that lesson stuck. Like Springers,

468
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,959
Speaker 2: in my experience, are a little bit more reserved than

469
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 2: a cocker would be. And these these puppies, like both

470
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 2: parents are successful field trialbogs, and it's it is a

471
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 2: nice breeding, but they're also i'd say just a little

472
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:55,120
Speaker 2: bit more cautious by nature, and these puppies like they're

473
00:23:55,480 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 2: they're fearless, like they're slightly reckless, definitely fearless. So it's

474
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 2: it's been a cool experiment.

475
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,439
Speaker 1: So there's like there's a whole bunch to unpack there. Uh.

476
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

477
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 1: The first thing that I want to ask you about

478
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 1: is did you see so you you started, you said

479
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:17,120
Speaker 1: you started from the end and tacked on obstacles once

480
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: they figured it out because they have to learn that

481
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 1: that reward is their first and so correct. Did you

482
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,919
Speaker 1: see them solving problems quicker once? You know, once they

483
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 1: go around the first wall and they're like, okay, now

484
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,160
Speaker 1: the reward's here, and they started to sort of put

485
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 1: the game together as you added like subsequent obstacles. Did

486
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 1: they figure them out quicker? Like did you? Could you

487
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 1: see it for sure?

488
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,159
Speaker 2: Yes? For sure? Like at the end, I was like,

489
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 2: I don't even know what else to do because nothing

490
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:47,199
Speaker 2: bothers them anymore. Like yes, So once they've figured out

491
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 2: the concept of like pushing through adversity to get a reward,

492
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:55,239
Speaker 2: it was like every time I added another piece to that,

493
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 2: to that agility course or obstacle course, they were like, oh, yeah,

494
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 2: we know what this is. Is like we just have

495
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 2: to figure this thing out and then we get food

496
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 2: at the end.

497
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 1: So you you condition them to problem solve at six

498
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 1: seven weeks old, saw it in real time where they

499
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:16,159
Speaker 1: were developing confidence around those problem solving skills and the

500
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 1: other thing with that, you know, I mean the main lesson.

501
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 1: I always think about this when you when you talked

502
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: earlier about you know, people kind of like overtraining or

503
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,360
Speaker 1: asking too much of puppies when they you know, they're

504
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: they're primed to learn, you know, in those formative weeks, months, whatever,

505
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 1: But you can ask too much of them and overwhelm them.

506
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: What I thought about there was, you know that, like,

507
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 1: that's undoubtedly true, right like people, people ask too much

508
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,719
Speaker 1: of them. But at the same time, those puppies are

509
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 1: learning a ton, whether you're teaching them or not, So

510
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 1: they're learning the bad behaviors or they're learning how to

511
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,919
Speaker 1: problem solve and good behaviors like that. That learning is

512
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: happening either way. But the way that dogs learn and

513
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: with the way we train them, that obstacle course is

514
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 1: like a perfect thing because you took the easiest part first,

515
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 1: connected it to the reward, so you made it positive

516
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 1: and said here's here at first is all you have

517
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 1: to do for this reward. You figure that out, you

518
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: get that reward that you want. So you're working dog,

519
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: you're working for your reward. Here you go and then

520
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: you tack on, now you daisy chain the next thing,

521
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: and they go, okay, well I want that reward and

522
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: I like working for it. So here I go and

523
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: on down the line. And I always think about, you know,

524
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,439
Speaker 1: if you have a you know, like I have labs

525
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: right now, I want them super steady, right, And so

526
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 1: they have to learn to sit before anything, and then

527
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: they have to learn to heal, they have to learn

528
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 1: to stay, they have to learn to wait for you

529
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: and be patient for that reward. But all of those

530
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: behaviors start with that simple sit command that you start

531
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 1: right away treat training on their pups, and you daisy

532
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 1: chain on these extra things. And so what looks like

533
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 1: a really nice, you know, controlled retrieving drill is a

534
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 1: just a series of behaviors that you've asked of them,

535
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,679
Speaker 1: that you've connected to that reward and just made it

536
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 1: progressively a little more complex.

537
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think like semantics or semantics, but if we

538
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,959
Speaker 2: could think about puppies as more like conditioning behaviors as

539
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 2: opposed to training, I think we would be a lot

540
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 2: better off. So if we can condition, then like, hey,

541
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 2: when you do this, you get this, Okay, that's easy enough, right,

542
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 2: Like simple concept. There's something in it for me. I

543
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 2: always think back to when I brought home my first

544
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 2: cocker I had. I had a lab when I was younger,

545
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 2: but she was here. He was just like a rough,

546
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,400
Speaker 2: shooting dog, poorly trained, so I kind of skip over

547
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 2: him my first spaniel, which would have been two thousand,

548
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 2: like seven or two thousand and eight that I brought

549
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 2: her home. I brought her home thinking I need to

550
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,400
Speaker 2: train this dog and make her great, and I started training,

551
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 2: like right from the start, like you need to do this,

552
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,239
Speaker 2: and you need to do that, Like if you're going

553
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 2: to be a great dog, you have to know this,

554
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 2: you have to know that. So I started, I started

555
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 2: training her rather than just trying to condition the behaviors

556
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 2: that I want. So with that obstacle course, we didn't

557
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 2: train them anything, like we didn't show them, We didn't

558
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 2: show them anything. They figured it out on their own,

559
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,120
Speaker 2: but they they got the reward at the end, which

560
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 2: was their meal. So we conditioned the behavior without making

561
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,719
Speaker 2: them do anything right, Like a lot of times when

562
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 2: we teach a dog to sit, we'll make it sit

563
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 2: and then we try to reward it. But if we

564
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 2: could just condition that, hey, when you sit, you get

565
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 2: a reward, I think we get a much better response.

566
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 2: So like that obstacle course, it's kind of funny. I

567
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 2: wish I had video of it. Like we had to

568
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 2: board the ends up to it, because if we took

569
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 2: the puppies out just to play with them, they would

570
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 2: go over and like just crash the obstacle course on

571
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 2: their own, like they would run through it. You'd see

572
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 2: them looking out the top like they thought, well, maybe

573
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 2: if I run through this thing, like the pot of

574
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 2: gold will magically appear at the end. Right, they're offering

575
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 2: the behavior. Literally, we would have like something blocking the

576
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 2: end and they would like knock it over or push

577
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 2: it to the side because they wanted it to the

578
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 2: obstacle course so badly, not because I don't think, because

579
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 2: they love the obstacle course, but because they love the

580
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 2: food that they thought the obstacle course created. So it

581
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 2: was a conditioned condition simply by feeding them breakfast at

582
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 2: the end, not trained.

583
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: Right, So I guess, I guess I need you to

584
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: clarify something. Then I'm trying to like work this out

585
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: in my brain because let's say, let's use like jumping

586
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 1: up on like you take a puppy, I don't know,

587
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: ten week old puppy, twelve weeks old puppy, and it

588
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,959
Speaker 1: starts jumping up on people for attention, and our natural

589
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 1: reaction is that happens, and we want to correct them

590
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: and take that away from them. But conditioning a dog

591
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 1: to walk up and sit and wait for somebody to

592
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 1: come to their level is a positive thing. And so

593
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: a lot of the ways that we look at this,

594
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: it's sort of the difference between a positive and a

595
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,959
Speaker 1: negative interaction, right Or you're trying to make that so

596
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: that dog gives you a positive behavior and gets its

597
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: reward instead of does this thing that's going to be

598
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: a negative and you and you would train that dog

599
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: maybe to not jump up on people by correcting it,

600
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: or you could train that dog to offer you a

601
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: positive behavior and it gets the reward of somebody coming

602
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: down to its level. Is that super confusing?

603
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, Well, so if you think about jumping, like,

604
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 2: jumping on somebody is something the dog wants to do

605
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 2: on its own, right, Like, you don't have to encourage it,

606
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 2: especially if it's a cocker. They are the absolute worst.

607
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 2: But they like, that's a behavior we want them to

608
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 2: stop doing, not a behavior that we want them to do.

609
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 2: Sitting would be a behavior that we want them to do,

610
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 2: not something we want them to stop doing right, So

611
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 2: if if you were to use a negative for jumping,

612
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 2: like okay, if it causes them to stop jumping, great,

613
00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 2: But like retrieving and sit like these are all like

614
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 2: unnatural behaviors that we're trying to get them to do,

615
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 2: not to stop, but to get to do. So if

616
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 2: we try to put a bunch of pressure and like

617
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 2: formal training on that, we can burn them out from

618
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 2: it really really quickly. Like retrieving is it's the low

619
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 2: hanging fruit. Like there are a bunch of really really

620
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 2: well bred hunting dogs that frankly do not like to

621
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 2: retrieve the majority of the time. I think that's because

622
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 2: owners brought them home as little puppies and just started

623
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 2: chucking stuff for him. And eventually that puppy was like,

624
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 2: you know what, Like retrieving kind of sucks, Like it

625
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 2: never ends, you keep throwing stuff for me. It's no

626
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 2: different than youth sports. Like there's a lot of kids

627
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 2: out there that the parents are like, oh, he's eight

628
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 2: years old and he loves it. Like he loves it,

629
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 2: you know, he wants to go to all these practices

630
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 2: and he loves that. I'm driving him halfway across the

631
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 2: country to play a soccer game or a baseball game.

632
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 2: He loves it. He loves it, and then one day

633
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 2: they're like, yeah, I don't know what happened to Johnny,

634
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 2: but like he just doesn't love baseball anymore, Like, well, yeah,

635
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 2: because it was the like it was something he was enjoying,

636
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 2: and then you just did so much of it that

637
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 2: it just became like one day he woke up and

638
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 2: his eyes opened and was like, I don't really like

639
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 2: doing this. I think retrieving for a puppy can be

640
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 2: the same way. Like, for sure, some of them will survive,

641
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 2: Like there's some of them that will just never grow

642
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 2: tired of retrieving. But there's a bunch of them that

643
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 2: if you do it too much, they eventually open their

644
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 2: eyes and say, every time I bring this back, you

645
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 2: just chuck it for me again. You know, I'm just

646
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 2: gonna stop that, like the love is gone. And I

647
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 2: also think that translates like into sitting. You see people

648
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 2: that are just constantly sit, sit, sit, sit, And I

649
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 2: think eventually the dogs like, you know what, you tell

650
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 2: me to sit all the time, there's nothing in it

651
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 2: for me, Like I don't get rewarded for it half

652
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 2: the time you told me to sit, and then you

653
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 2: forget you told me to sit, you walk away, and

654
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 2: I just self release, and like it becomes so mundane

655
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 2: and repetitive that the puppy, just like you start seeing

656
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 2: like a begrudging sit right like they're oh, you tell

657
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 2: them to sit, and they like slowly put their butt

658
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 2: down because there's no there's no like drive or desire

659
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 2: to do something quickly. It's more just like, yeah, I'll

660
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 2: do it because I have to. And and frankly like

661
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 2: I hate that, Like I want a puppy and an

662
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 2: adult dog that's like like totally in tune with me,

663
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 2: making eye contact and is like asking what's next, what's next?

664
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 2: Like what what do you want to do next? What

665
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 2: do you want to do next? Because that's the type

666
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 2: of just like with youth sports, the kid that's hungry

667
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 2: to learn, he may not be the best athlete, but

668
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 2: if he's hungry to learn, he's gonna learn much more

669
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 2: quickly than the kid that maybe knows everything and is

670
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 2: a good athlete, but he's apathetic. So I want the

671
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 2: puppy that has desire and like heart and wants to

672
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 2: please way more than I want the puppy that knows

673
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 2: everything but doesn't give a rip. And I believe in

674
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 2: many cases how we develop them as puppies results in

675
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 2: either having that apathetic or that that eager adult dog.

676
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 2: So condition more than training.

677
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: I could not agree with you more. In fact, I

678
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,879
Speaker 1: wish my wife was listening to this uh with youth

679
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:26,479
Speaker 1: sports analogy there, because that shit is bananas around here?

680
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 2: Yes, the same here.

681
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 1: Oh my god, dude, crazy Uh. I think I think

682
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,280
Speaker 1: there's a really good point that the retrieving, like overdoing

683
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: the retrieves that you talked about. I think the easiest

684
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,399
Speaker 1: way to make that relatable to people, because you're so right,

685
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: is like, what what is just absolute punishment for us

686
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 1: as humans? It's generally doing the same thing over and

687
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: over over addition, no variation, no mystery, no challenge. Like

688
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 1: I when I was in college, I worked at IBM

689
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: down in Rochester, uh, polishing discs for computers. That was

690
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 1: hard me and my buddies. It was a great job

691
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,399
Speaker 1: to pay for school, but it was like you want

692
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: to put rocks in your pockets and wade into the

693
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 1: river and end it all, man was You'd load up

694
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: these things, put them in this machine, run it for

695
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 1: like fifteen minutes, pull them out and you'd test every

696
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 1: like fifth batch or whatever, and it was the same

697
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 1: thing for twelve hours a day, pure torture. And so

698
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: when you talk about retrieves and you think, oh, that's

699
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: a that's a dog, that is a retriever, that's all

700
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,839
Speaker 1: it wants to do, it's like when you start that

701
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: dog on that path right away and it's we're going

702
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 1: to the yard and we're going to throw the pumper

703
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,240
Speaker 1: the same way every time, over and over. And then

704
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 1: you start to notice they start to drift off and

705
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 1: sniff stuff and they don't want to bring it back

706
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 1: right away. They're getting bored, like they've had too much

707
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:50,720
Speaker 1: of the same thing. You know, you need a new environment.

708
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: You need to dial it back. You know, Docin talks

709
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: about that a lot, like always keep them wanting more.

710
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 1: And if that's a puppy and two retrieves is awesome

711
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 1: and three would be a little bit too much, Like

712
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: you got to stop that too, and you have to

713
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,320
Speaker 1: have to learn your individual dog that way. And I

714
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 1: always think about that, like, you know, people people will

715
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 1: say to me all the time, you have my dream job,

716
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 1: because they think I just hunt and fish all the

717
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,320
Speaker 1: time for my job. But I'm like, I have burned

718
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: myself and I love to hunt fish, but I have

719
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: burned myself right to the ground in both categories a

720
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 1: million times by just having to go too much for

721
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: my job. And I know that's like a first problem

722
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: and a dumb thing to bitch about. But when you've

723
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: when you've done it, you go, okay, like I get this.

724
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 1: And so you think about a dog that's super excited

725
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: about something, you can you can put that dog in

726
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 1: a bad place with that in a way that it

727
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,760
Speaker 1: might never shake that off the rest of its life.

728
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I always try to think about what am

729
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 2: I trying to accomplish here in any session? Right, So

730
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 2: if I'm going to throw a retrieve for a dog,

731
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,280
Speaker 2: why am I throwing that retrieve? Then I'll ask client.

732
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 2: When I used to have more clients coming here, I

733
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 2: would they would throw something for their dog, Like why

734
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 2: did you throw that? Well, because I wanted him to

735
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 2: retrieve it? Yeah, but like what were you what were

736
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,240
Speaker 2: you know? He retrieves? So like, what were you trying

737
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 2: to accomplish with that retrieve? And most of the time,

738
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 2: like most people can't give a good answer for it.

739
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 2: So if you know the dog will retrieve, like, use

740
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,439
Speaker 2: it sparingly. You don't have to check it all the time,

741
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 2: you know. We don't want to just have to go

742
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 2: out and do a bunch of worthless to retrieves, Like

743
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 2: use those retrieves to accomplish something. So if I'm going

744
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 2: to throw a retrieve for an adult dog, it's gonna

745
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 2: be for probably one of roughly three reasons. One of

746
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 2: them would be because I want them to work on

747
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 2: their marking. So it's going to be a really difficult retrieve,

748
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 2: like lots of transitions or distance or maybe both of

749
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 2: those things. So we're doing a complex retrieve to work

750
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 2: on marketing. That would be one reason. Another would be

751
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 2: as a reward. So because I built up that retrieve

752
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 2: drive when they were young, I can use that retrieve

753
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 2: as a reward when they're older. So like you gave

754
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 2: me a behavior, Okay, here's a retrieve in order to

755
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 2: mark or reward that behavior. And then the probably the

756
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 2: third reason that I would do retrieves with an adult

757
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 2: dog would just be if I was working on steadiness.

758
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 2: So like maybe if I had a dog that was

759
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 2: having breaking issues and well, yeah, we gotta throw some

760
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 2: retrieves in order to focus on the breaking. If I

761
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 2: was doing that, I wouldn't be combining. I would be

762
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 2: focusing just on the breaking though, right I wouldn't be

763
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 2: giving a long complex retrieve. If what I was actually

764
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,839
Speaker 2: working on was breaking, it would probably be a ten

765
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 2: yard retrieve. So there's really little effort for the dog

766
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 2: because we're not focusing on the retrieve. Again, we're just

767
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 2: focusing on the steadiness. So my sessions with adult dogs,

768
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 2: if retrieving is going to be a part of it,

769
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 2: those would be my reasons for it. I'm not just

770
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:57,320
Speaker 2: going to go out in the yard and just start

771
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:01,399
Speaker 2: throwing retrieves for a dog. Going to be exceptions for that.

772
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 2: It can be a good way to get some exercise.

773
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 2: Usually the exercise is kind of a byproduct, though, while

774
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 2: I'm working on something else. To me, just going out

775
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 2: and throwing a bunch of retrieves just to get a

776
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 2: dog in shape probably isn't the best way to do it.

777
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 2: If I back that up, if I'm doing retrieves for

778
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 2: a puppy, I'm not working on complexity at all. Like

779
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 2: I want them to be successful every single time, so

780
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 2: they're a puppy's not going to get a one hundred

781
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 2: yard retrieve with three factors, and like it's just not

782
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 2: going to happen, Like it's going to be a really

783
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,320
Speaker 2: easy retrieve in a hallway or in a room without

784
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 2: any distractions. They're going to be able to see it.

785
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 2: I'm not going to restrain them. I'm not going to

786
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 2: ask them to be steady. I'm not gonna ask for

787
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 2: a good delivery. All I'm trying to do with a

788
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 2: puppy is build the retrieve drive so it's something that

789
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 2: they really really want. So if I keep that in mind,

790
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 2: that all I'm focusing on is getting a retrieve drive up,

791
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 2: then it gives me a really clear picture, Like all

792
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:03,800
Speaker 2: I want to do is get that dog really really excited,

793
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 2: make a couple of retrieves, get him excited again, and

794
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 2: then put the dummy away because next time I bring

795
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 2: it out, he's going to be more like hungry for it. Right.

796
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 2: But if I if I give that puppy like you said,

797
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 2: if I give him five retrieves or even three retrieves

798
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 2: and at the end he runs out and sniffs it

799
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 2: and then he picks his head up and looks around

800
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 2: because he's looking for something else to do, Like I

801
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:31,800
Speaker 2: actually had a counterproductive training session at that point because

802
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 2: instead of building drive, that shows me at the end there,

803
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,399
Speaker 2: I just took a tiny bit of desire away from

804
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 2: that dog. So it was a bad session. So yeah,

805
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 2: like I guess like making sure that we're thinking about

806
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 2: what are we conditioning here? Like are we making the

807
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,800
Speaker 2: dog hate what they're doing? Are we just like reinforcing

808
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,919
Speaker 2: that we're a bit of a jerk and a hard

809
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,280
Speaker 2: ass and we're gonna make you do whatever we want?

810
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 2: Or in that session, are we making that want it more?

811
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,760
Speaker 2: And are we making them like have heart and desire

812
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 2: for it? And I think that's I mean, like when

813
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 2: we think about our own lives, if we go to

814
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 2: a job and we have somebody that just makes us

815
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 2: do stuff and they're yelling at us all the time

816
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 2: and like they're holding our feet to the fire and

817
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 2: like making it miserable. Like man, like, yeah, we may

818
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 2: do the job, but like we all know, like the

819
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,959
Speaker 2: desire isn't there and the drive isn't there, we're doing

820
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 2: it out of obligation, and like obligation in that way,

821
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 2: like it sucks, frankly, where on the flip side, if

822
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 2: like we're doing something because we want to do it.

823
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,280
Speaker 2: Like maybe even if it's a job where we're paid

824
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 2: like by commission or by effort, there's a lot more

825
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 2: heart and desire and like we're gonna work harder and

826
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 2: we're gonna want to do it more. And same for

827
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 2: a dog, like if we can keep that desire and

828
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 2: they know that, like you know, I want that so bad,

829
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,919
Speaker 2: and I know, like it's a little bit about them,

830
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 2: like they know they're going to get a reward at

831
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 2: the end, Like there's just there's more passionate to me,

832
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 2: that's a lot more fun to train a dog like that,

833
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 2: And it's it's honestly just a lot more fun to

834
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 2: train period when it's there's there's more psychology and less

835
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 2: just like do it my way.

836
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 1: Less brute force, right, I mean, yeah, that's that's one

837
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: of the things. You know, people ask me a lot,

838
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 1: you know, why labs versus something else right now in

839
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 1: my life, And I'm like, man if I get the

840
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 1: right lab and and I manage that retrieving desire, I

841
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: have a built in reward for almost everything we're going

842
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 1: to do for that dog's entire life. So it actually

843
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: not only does it make it more fun, I think

844
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 1: just like to train them, but it also makes it

845
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,359
Speaker 1: just easier. And I know, don't We don't really talk

846
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: about that a lot out in the dog space. You know,

847
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:50,839
Speaker 1: people kind of get married to a breathe. They fall

848
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 1: in love with the wire hairs or the whatever, and

849
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 1: they're like, that's my dog forever. And I look at

850
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 1: it and I go, you know, you're not thinking about

851
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 1: am like, how could of a trainer? I like, can

852
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 1: I handle that breed or that specific bloodline or is

853
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 1: it kind of got a little more horsepower than I

854
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:08,800
Speaker 1: can handle or is it going to be more challenging.

855
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 1: And I'm like, man, I want a dog that's easy

856
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: to train, because I'm not a professional trainer. And so

857
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: if I have a dog that lives and breeds, retrieves,

858
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 1: and I don't burn that out of them for the

859
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 1: rest of their life, I can train around that whether

860
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:22,479
Speaker 1: you know, like you said, you're getting them a little

861
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 1: exercise while you're doing it up at the lake and

862
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: you're making them work on steadiness or whatever. That reward

863
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 1: is just built in so that dog is going to

864
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: show up and want to work as long as you

865
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 1: don't push it too far.

866
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:39,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, and right, so retriever retrieve Great Spaniels saying thing like,

867
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 2: I think most breeds, most of them have some desire

868
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,359
Speaker 2: to retrieve, and you can you can nurture that and

869
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 2: like build that drive up. But if you have a

870
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 2: dog that doesn't have retrieve drive, and maybe maybe it's

871
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 2: an English pointer, like retrieving isn't ever going to be

872
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 2: a part of that dog's life. I know some of

873
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 2: them do retrieve, but maybe you have one that you

874
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 2: that's like not really in the cards for that dog.

875
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean you still can't find something that makes

876
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 2: that dog tick and use that right Like again, for

877
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 2: a puppy, food makes pretty much every puppy tick. I mean,

878
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 2: I know some have more food drive than others, but

879
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 2: they all eat at some point. So that's one birds.

880
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 2: You know, using birds as a paycheck like that can

881
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 2: be for an adult dog, that can be a really

882
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 2: really great tool. I don't like to use birds with

883
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 2: young dogs because I feel like that's like Candora's box.

884
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 2: Once you once you introduce birds to that puppy, it's

885
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 2: really really hard to go back, And so I kind

886
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 2: of wait till I have a foundation and have my

887
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 2: other stuff done with that dog before I start introducing

888
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 2: birds to them, which might be like eight, nine or

889
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 2: ten months old. Some people introduce them a lot earlier.

890
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 2: I get that, but again, I'm we just have to

891
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 2: find like what makes that dog tick and what do

892
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 2: they want to work for, and then let's use that

893
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 2: to our advantage. So I'm gonna can I go back

894
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 2: to like the little puppy stage real quick, because I

895
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 2: think this is kind of cool. Okay, So we put

896
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 2: all these sprayer puppies through this obstacle course. They learned

897
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,440
Speaker 2: that if they listened to us and came to the

898
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 2: other end, then they could go through the course and

899
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 2: the food was there. So they're like learning to show

900
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,319
Speaker 2: restraint and to listen to us a little bit, even

901
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 2: though like their primitive desire for food was like on

902
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 2: high at that point. So one of the puppies in

903
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 2: that litter, we named him Scuffy, mostly because like he

904
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 2: doesn't give a rip about anything, Like he's like the

905
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 2: one that just Scuffy is like the perfect name for him.

906
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 2: And my older son Brett, who built the obstacle course,

907
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 2: he kind of like snuck this. It's a long story

908
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 2: and I won't give it here, but he kind of

909
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 2: snuck the puppy away from me and somehow, like somehow

910
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 2: the puppy is it right now, I don't really even

911
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:57,279
Speaker 2: know how it happened, but so he's been working like

912
00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 2: in order to like plant his flag on that puppy.

913
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 2: He's like doing all the work with it. Like I

914
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 2: come inside and there's Scuffy hanging out with him, like

915
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 2: it's Scuffy, Scuffy, Scuffy, and he's totally making it so

916
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,319
Speaker 2: like I have no recourse to get Scuffy from him,

917
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 2: and I get it, like it's you're keeping this. Hey.

918
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:18,399
Speaker 2: It's one hundred percent manipulative on his part, and I'm

919
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 2: a little proud that he's so good at it. But

920
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,840
Speaker 2: so he's so kato outdoors. The cato boards, the platform

921
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 2: that I make and sell, we obviously use those a

922
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 2: lot for training. So he started going out into the

923
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 2: dog room and training Scuffy with a cato board and

924
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:36,839
Speaker 2: the way that I do it, and he's he's doing

925
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 2: what I told him, Like he just stands in front

926
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 2: of the cato board, no commands, has a piece of kibble,

927
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 2: not even like a special tree, just like piece of

928
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,839
Speaker 2: Brina dog food in his hand. And when Scuffy would

929
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:52,360
Speaker 2: stand or like when he would just touch the platform,

930
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,840
Speaker 2: Brett would give him a piece of kibble, no command,

931
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 2: just just marking the behavior right. And within like two

932
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 2: session and Scuffy was jumping on the platform and Brett

933
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,240
Speaker 2: would give him a piece of kibble. Hadn't used the command,

934
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 2: just had condition to behavior, and then he started waiting

935
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 2: till Scuffy put his butt down and then he would

936
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 2: give him a piece of kibble, and he did. I

937
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 2: think he did four sessions like that, so no force,

938
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 2: no verbal commands like one, just conditioning and behavior. When

939
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 2: you do this, like here comes a mana from heaven,

940
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 2: like here, here's your piece of kibble. Right. I was

941
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 2: out in the dog room with a friend and I

942
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 2: had a catero board. I think probably Brett had left

943
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 2: a cato board in the middle of the floor, and

944
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 2: I let all the puppies out, and we had all

945
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 2: nine of them here at the time because they were

946
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 2: this was still they were like nine weeks old at

947
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 2: the time. And I was talking to my buddy and

948
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 2: I turned around and looked, and there's Scuffy in the

949
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 2: middle of the floor, sitting on the cato board, just

950
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:56,359
Speaker 2: staring at me, and all all eight of the other

951
00:47:56,440 --> 00:48:00,080
Speaker 2: puppies are milling around and sniffing and because none of

952
00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 2: them had been none of them had gone through this

953
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,919
Speaker 2: process yet. But Scuffy was I wish, like I don't

954
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 2: have a video out there, but Scuffy is just sitting there,

955
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 2: chest out as proud as can be, just staring at

956
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 2: me like I'm doing it. I'm doing it, like when's

957
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 2: the treat come? When's the treat come? And I contrast

958
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,279
Speaker 2: that to my early dogs, where I'm like forcing them

959
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 2: to sit, and I'm you know, pushing their butt down

960
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:27,840
Speaker 2: and sit, sit, sit, pushing the butt down, and they're

961
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:31,279
Speaker 2: fighting against me, and eventually they do it like just

962
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 2: like not a fun process and frankly, not a good

963
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 2: product at the end of that process. And then I

964
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 2: can compare that to Scuffy who's trained by a fourteen

965
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,760
Speaker 2: year old kid who's like doesn't really know what he's doing,

966
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 2: but he kind of knows the basics. And now here's

967
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:50,799
Speaker 2: a puppy that's like eagerly offering the behavior on his

968
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 2: own and not just offering the behavior, but he's offering

969
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 2: it while there's eight puppies screwing around around him, which

970
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:01,360
Speaker 2: is like a huge distraction. And it's also a great

971
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:04,759
Speaker 2: contrast to show that like, yeah, he's not doing it naturally,

972
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 2: because the natural thing to do would be to screw

973
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 2: around with those other eight puppies, right, Like, those eight

974
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 2: puppies are showing like this is like just natural behavior.

975
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 2: Scuffy with four sessions is showing like a conditioned behavior

976
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 2: and he's doing it of his own accord without any

977
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 2: verbal command or physical correction or anything like that. And

978
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 2: that to me, like, that's the seed right there that

979
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 2: will make Scuffy a great dog someday and will make

980
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,880
Speaker 2: him really really fun to train, because Scuffy has learned

981
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 2: if I offer a behavior, I can get what I want.

982
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 2: And I think that's a great thing. Like if Scuffy

983
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 2: learns to offer what I want in order to get

984
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 2: what he wants, Like, isn't that like that's a good relationship,

985
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 2: I think, And I can use that to my advantage

986
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:53,720
Speaker 2: for the life of that dog.

987
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 1: Well, there's there's a lot there, and it so your

988
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 1: your son hit that he's hitting the window of where

989
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:05,799
Speaker 1: treat training with puppies is really effective because that's the

990
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 1: that's the reward that matters to them the most. You know,

991
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 1: later you'll transition him to praise and some other stuff,

992
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:12,400
Speaker 1: and it you know, you're not going to be carrying

993
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 1: around a handful of kibble forever to train that dog.

994
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 1: But in that moment when they're young like that, and

995
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 1: that's you know, you hear, you hear differing opinions on

996
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 1: treat training, but there's like sort of a general consensus

997
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:27,439
Speaker 1: that young puppies eight weeks to you know, I don't

998
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 1: know what age you'd get, you know, I'm talking about

999
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: when people get them home. Yeah, it's it is just

1000
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,319
Speaker 1: the move to do. And you think about so that

1001
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 1: placeboard training, So you're cato boards for people who don't

1002
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 1: know they're a placeboard. They're an elevated platform, a nice

1003
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: surface on it that's not slippery. What are they about?

1004
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 1: Four inches tall?

1005
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, three and a half inches three and a.

1006
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,319
Speaker 1: Half inches tall, So they are I always say that

1007
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: a placeboard is like it's it's like debt or pregnant.

1008
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 1: You're either on or not. You either are you aren't.

1009
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 1: So a dog on that on those placeboards, they're either

1010
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 1: fully on it and they've placed themselves or not. You know,

1011
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:06,799
Speaker 1: if you use a dog better or something like that,

1012
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 1: they'll start to cheat off it and lay on the

1013
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 1: floor and keep a toe on it or whatever. But

1014
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 1: a good placeboard doesn't allow them to do that. And

1015
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: that's that's what you're talking about here, and those placeboards

1016
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,360
Speaker 1: when they learn that as puppies, and he's you know,

1017
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:22,439
Speaker 1: that pup's offering up that behavior for that reward on there,

1018
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 1: and he's learned that that is the place that he

1019
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,280
Speaker 1: gets his reward and a lot of the good stuff

1020
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:31,839
Speaker 1: originates around him being on there. That's going to you know,

1021
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 1: feed into like hand signal training later because you can

1022
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: send him to the placeboard or two place boards. Steadiness.

1023
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: It's a huge deal. So if you're working a duck

1024
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 1: dog or you want a dog in the house that

1025
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 1: doesn't run to everybody who shows up at the front door,

1026
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 1: and all of that you're talking about in four sessions

1027
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 1: by your teenage son with very you know, no heavy handedness,

1028
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 1: just just a little bit of like a reward for

1029
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:57,280
Speaker 1: doing the right thing or the thing that he wants

1030
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 1: is going to set the stage for behaviors through training

1031
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:03,439
Speaker 1: much later in life that would be harder to train

1032
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:07,240
Speaker 1: later without that foundation, for sure. And it's just a simple,

1033
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:12,239
Speaker 1: relatively simple thing that's going to feed positively throughout that

1034
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:16,839
Speaker 1: dog's life. In ways, it's just like a general dog

1035
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 1: behavior in the house, but also for training and the

1036
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: ability to ask more out of that dog later.

1037
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:29,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent. It's just a tool, but it

1038
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 2: is a tool that makes life way way easier. Like

1039
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 2: thinking about Scuffy, thinking about my early dogs. I taught

1040
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 2: them all to sit in front of me. This is

1041
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:42,320
Speaker 2: before I use place boards, way before cato boards. I

1042
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 2: teach them to sit in front of me. And when

1043
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:46,879
Speaker 2: I asked them to sit at a distance, like, they

1044
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 2: couldn't do it. It was too much pressure, like they

1045
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 2: wanted to come in by my feet and then sit down,

1046
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 2: and it took. Like that dog Breeze that I won

1047
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:59,359
Speaker 2: the Amateur Nationals with, I remember having some very tough

1048
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 2: sessions with her when she was about a year old,

1049
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:04,280
Speaker 2: because I was trying to get her to sit twenty

1050
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 2: yards or thirty yards in front of me, and she

1051
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 2: wanted to just kind of come slinking back in and

1052
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:12,399
Speaker 2: sit at my feet, and it took way too much

1053
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 2: work in creativity to fix that issue. Now I think

1054
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:19,399
Speaker 2: about Scuffy at nine weeks old, he's going ten feet

1055
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 2: away from me and sitting already, And you're one hundred

1056
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 2: percent right, we'll be able to use that to teach

1057
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 2: him to sit at fifty yards and teach him to

1058
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 2: sit when he flushes a bird, or if he's going

1059
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 2: to be a duck dog, like hey, it's okay to

1060
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 2: sit in a blind ten yards away from me, or

1061
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 2: direction like we'll use it to teach directional stuff for

1062
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 2: blinds or even quartering through a field. But all of

1063
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:45,280
Speaker 2: it is because he wants to go to it, because

1064
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:49,759
Speaker 2: we've conditioned that behavior, like he knows it's a positive thing.

1065
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 2: The treats I used to be in the camp that like, hey,

1066
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 2: this is supposed to be a badass hunting dog. I

1067
00:53:55,960 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 2: don't really understand how giving it a treat like those

1068
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:04,320
Speaker 2: things seeing like at odds with each other, like treats

1069
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 2: and a badass hunting dog. No, No, treats are for

1070
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 2: like lap dogs. I've changed on that drastically because I

1071
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 2: found with treats, I can do much longer sessions and

1072
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 2: I can ask for more repetition because the dog has

1073
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 2: way more dry I'm never gonna burn it out from treats,

1074
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 2: you know, especially if I'm using their meal for that.

1075
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 2: So I can I can do much longer sessions and

1076
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:32,720
Speaker 2: I'm teaching them the concept of a behavior for a reward. Today,

1077
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 2: the reward is a piece of kibble. As they get older,

1078
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 2: you know, we start saying good at the same time

1079
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 2: we give them the kibble. Some people will use a

1080
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:44,720
Speaker 2: clicker for that. We can start to charge the word good,

1081
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 2: or we can charge the click on a clicker. So eventually,

1082
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:53,880
Speaker 2: when I say good, they associate they they're subconsciously associating

1083
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 2: the word good with the taste of a piece of kibble,

1084
00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 2: even though later on that piece of kibble isn't even there.

1085
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:02,640
Speaker 2: And that's concept of the clicker as well. And then

1086
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:06,440
Speaker 2: later even later on from that, the reward is going

1087
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 2: to become that piece of kibble. So, yeah, you did

1088
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 2: what I asked you to do fifty yards away, all right,

1089
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 2: I'm going to throw the tennis ball. The tennis ball is,

1090
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 2: you know, the big piece of kibble. You get to

1091
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 2: go make that retrieve and come in and I tell

1092
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:23,760
Speaker 2: you you're a good dog. But the foundation of offering

1093
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:27,240
Speaker 2: a behavior in order to get a reward like that's

1094
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:31,400
Speaker 2: getting established at such a young age. And that concept,

1095
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 2: like if I get in a dog that's say a

1096
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:35,319
Speaker 2: year and a half old, and they've only ever been

1097
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:40,799
Speaker 2: made to do things, they don't necessarily naturally understand that

1098
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:43,360
Speaker 2: they can offer a behavior in order to get something

1099
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,719
Speaker 2: from me, and you have to teach them that. And

1100
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 2: as they get older that can be a harder and

1101
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:51,279
Speaker 2: harder concept for them to learn. But if we can

1102
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 2: take that little puppy and like lay that foundation early on,

1103
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 2: like they never forget that, that goes with them for life.

1104
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 2: And I I think you've seen, like when you've spent

1105
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:04,919
Speaker 2: time with me, like training dogs doesn't have to be

1106
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 2: a bunch of yelling and yanking on a leash and

1107
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:13,160
Speaker 2: being frustrated and veins popping, and like it can actually

1108
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 2: be just like a relaxing, enjoyable thing to do, and

1109
00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 2: the dog has to have a good foundation in order

1110
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:24,360
Speaker 2: to do that. But like once you have it, it's fun.

1111
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 2: Like I'm a little bit on like this campaign, I guess,

1112
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:30,320
Speaker 2: like get people to do like just go out and

1113
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:32,759
Speaker 2: have fun with your dog, and like it doesn't have

1114
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 2: to be like this intimidating thing and you don't have

1115
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 2: to be a hard ass. It's gonna really like force

1116
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 2: the dog to do things, Like you guys can just

1117
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:44,320
Speaker 2: kind of go out and learn together, like just control

1118
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:47,120
Speaker 2: the paycheck, you know, make sure your timing is good

1119
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 2: and that you reward them when you see the behavior

1120
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:52,400
Speaker 2: that you want. But like, as long as you control

1121
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 2: the paycheck, you don't have to get all worked up

1122
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:56,719
Speaker 2: when you're training, Like it can just be a good, relaxing,

1123
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 2: enjoyable experience for you and the.

1124
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:02,000
Speaker 1: Dog, right And that I mean when you when you

1125
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 1: talk about you know, treat training an eight week old

1126
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 1: puppy or however old they are, I mean there's two

1127
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:09,759
Speaker 1: things going on there, right, Like you don't they don't

1128
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:12,440
Speaker 1: care about praise yet really like they don't care about

1129
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:15,920
Speaker 1: you in a way they will later. Uh. That's like

1130
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:19,600
Speaker 1: the reward that you can give them essentially, And it's

1131
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 1: so important because you know, like I know Doc pushes

1132
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 1: this a lot too, where when you have that kibble

1133
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 1: in your hand and you take a puppy that you

1134
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 1: would generally say has no attention span whatsoever, you can

1135
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 1: get that puppy to focus on you by just letting

1136
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 1: them smell that kibble in your hand, in your fist,

1137
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 1: and it changes the entirety of that little training session.

1138
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 1: And it might be like a fifteen twenty thirty second deal,

1139
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 1: but now you have that dog's attention because you have

1140
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 1: what it wants, and so I always look at that

1141
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:52,760
Speaker 1: and go, man, you know the coolest thing about you know,

1142
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 1: like hunting with a bird dog for me or having

1143
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:58,440
Speaker 1: a bird dog is just that relationship when we figure

1144
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 1: it out. We're working together for birds, and I can

1145
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 1: walk into a cattail, sew or whatever, and that dog

1146
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:05,160
Speaker 1: is going to lead me. Instead of me being like

1147
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 1: we walk this way, then we walk that way where

1148
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:09,959
Speaker 1: I can just be like, okay, you work into the wind,

1149
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 1: we'll figure this out. I'm following you. And there's a

1150
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 1: teamwork aspect where they're checking back if they get too

1151
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 1: far out, or there's just like that relationship and the

1152
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 1: earlier that starts where it's not like I'm forcing you

1153
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 1: out of fear to do something, but you're offering me

1154
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:29,120
Speaker 1: up something because you want to please me because it

1155
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 1: results in you getting a reward. When you established that

1156
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 1: early on, that team aspect comes into play in a

1157
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:38,800
Speaker 1: way where you don't need to be nearly as heavy

1158
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 1: handed later because that dog's already conditioned to like, well,

1159
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 1: we're together in this and he has what I want,

1160
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 1: I have what he wants. Let's make this work.

1161
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And I don't know your story like early

1162
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 2: dogs as well if I don't mine, of course, well,

1163
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 2: like I can contrast it real easily with that first

1164
00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 2: dog I had where I just tried to well, actually

1165
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 2: my lab and my first cocker, where I just tried

1166
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:07,160
Speaker 2: to make them do it my way, and I had

1167
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 2: so many control issues with them in the field, and

1168
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 2: like they were unreliable. We still shot, like we killed

1169
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 2: lots of birds, no doubt, but it was always a

1170
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:20,440
Speaker 2: little bit stressful. And if I lost sight of them,

1171
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 2: like they were probably gone at that point, they're gonna

1172
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 2: be way too far. Like they were, they would take

1173
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 2: advantage of me very very quickly. And when I contrast

1174
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 2: that with dogs today, like half the time now I'm

1175
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:34,960
Speaker 2: doing things to get the dogs to run bigger as

1176
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:39,160
Speaker 2: opposed to run smaller because they want they typically want

1177
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:41,720
Speaker 2: to be a little bit closer to me, just because

1178
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 2: there's no there's no resentment, and I don't think they

1179
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 2: feel competition with me either, Like it feels like it's

1180
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 2: much and I mean feeling whatever that is, but like

1181
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:54,720
Speaker 2: it feels like it's much more of a teamwork experience

1182
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 2: as opposed to that dog being a tool that I'm

1183
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 2: just using it as and as an object almost.

1184
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:06,080
Speaker 1: Right, I mean I kind of see it. Uh, you know,

1185
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've seen this. I'm sure people listening to

1186
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:10,080
Speaker 1: this have have been through this a lot, maybe with

1187
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 1: their dogs or their buddies dogs. But you can see,

1188
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 1: you know, you take you take dogs out pheasant hunting,

1189
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:19,560
Speaker 1: and you know, some of them are like, I'm going

1190
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:23,000
Speaker 1: to get mine with or without you, Like they're just

1191
01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:25,720
Speaker 1: like they don't have that connection, and they're like that

1192
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:28,200
Speaker 1: that is something I want so bad that I'm going

1193
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 1: to take it, regardless of how you're gonna light me

1194
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 1: up with an e caller or whatever, like I have

1195
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:35,680
Speaker 1: to go do this mindless whatever. And then you have

1196
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:38,200
Speaker 1: other dogs that are like I understand, like if you

1197
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:40,240
Speaker 1: let them out of the truck and they're going nuts,

1198
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 1: but they're like, I'm waiting for him to walk in

1199
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 1: with me, and this whole thing happens together. And I

1200
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:50,320
Speaker 1: just don't think I mean, that's that starts at as

1201
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:53,040
Speaker 1: soon as you bring them home, puppy and with those puppies,

1202
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:55,520
Speaker 1: and if you underestimate what those puppies are capable of

1203
01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:58,240
Speaker 1: and you don't work with them in that capacity right away,

1204
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:00,680
Speaker 1: you're gonna miss those windows and that's going to just

1205
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:04,600
Speaker 1: ripple through your relationship with that dog throughout its entire life,

1206
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:07,160
Speaker 1: and probably not in a positive way.

1207
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:10,400
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, so look like I mean, if we boil

1208
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 2: it right down, you're bringing home an eight week old puppy.

1209
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:16,320
Speaker 2: Look for behaviors you can condition, Like, don't get all

1210
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 2: obsessed with I've got to have a formal training session.

1211
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:23,320
Speaker 2: Like no, it's like just look for me. So I'm

1212
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 2: gonna do Yes, I'm going to do placeboard training early

1213
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:29,280
Speaker 2: on short sessions though I don't need to do this

1214
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:31,240
Speaker 2: for twenty minutes a day. I need to do it

1215
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 2: like three times a week, for like two minutes at

1216
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:36,960
Speaker 2: a time, Like just short. I can condition a behavior

1217
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:39,240
Speaker 2: with them running into a crate just by taking a

1218
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 2: couple pieces of kibble and luring them to the front

1219
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:44,920
Speaker 2: of the crate and tossing the kibble in. You know what,

1220
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 2: I'm That was a real simple thing, But I'm conditioning

1221
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:50,720
Speaker 2: them to go into the crate because they're associating it

1222
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 2: with a good thing. I can, on the flip side

1223
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 2: of that, when I'm letting them out of the crate,

1224
01:01:57,760 --> 01:01:59,600
Speaker 2: I can make sure that I wait until they're not

1225
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:01,959
Speaker 2: barking and carrying on and then I open the crate.

1226
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:04,280
Speaker 2: Like a lot of people make these little mistakes early

1227
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:07,840
Speaker 2: on because they think they'll fix it later. But if

1228
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 2: you have an eight week old puppy that's barking and

1229
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:12,200
Speaker 2: it's create, and you go over and open up that

1230
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:15,000
Speaker 2: crate because the puppy is barking or just because it's

1231
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 2: time to let the puppy out, you're conditioning a behavior.

1232
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:20,240
Speaker 2: Like you are going to have a one year old

1233
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:23,000
Speaker 2: dog that is barking and it's great because it wants out.

1234
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:26,200
Speaker 2: So for me, like if an eight week old puppy

1235
01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:28,520
Speaker 2: is barking and it's great, I'm going to go stand

1236
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 2: there and I'm going to get that puppy to be quiet,

1237
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:33,560
Speaker 2: even for twenty seconds, and then I'm going to open

1238
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 2: the crate because I'm conditioning behavior. So I think, don't

1239
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:41,680
Speaker 2: underestimate what a puppy is learning. They're being conditioned all

1240
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 2: the time, and you can use that to your advantage.

1241
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:48,280
Speaker 2: But on the flip side, don't get obsessed with a

1242
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 2: bunch of long sessions teaching formal things because you run

1243
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 2: you run a really higher risk of making them apathetic

1244
01:02:55,520 --> 01:02:59,200
Speaker 2: as they get older, and we don't want that like

1245
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:01,720
Speaker 2: we want to dog that's eager and hungry to learn

1246
01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:04,680
Speaker 2: and has drive and desire by the time it grows up.

1247
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:08,200
Speaker 1: I love it, buddy. I'm going to have you on

1248
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:09,920
Speaker 1: here again. At some point. We're going to dive deep

1249
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 1: into place training and some other stuff and talking about

1250
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:16,280
Speaker 1: some of the ways you work with adult dogs. Let

1251
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 1: everybody know where they can find your stuff out there.

1252
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:23,880
Speaker 1: They can watch you on social wherever you're at out there.

1253
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:27,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so I am on social now A decade later.

1254
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:32,120
Speaker 2: Kto Outdoors KTO is felled c A t O so

1255
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:35,480
Speaker 2: kto Outdoors. If you go on Instagram or Facebook or

1256
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 2: kto outdoors dot com, that's where, like any content content

1257
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:43,640
Speaker 2: that's related to Placeport training most it's going on to

1258
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:47,640
Speaker 2: the kto Outdoors stuff. Juggernaut gun Dogs, which that's a

1259
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:51,560
Speaker 2: great word that never knew that people would actually maybe

1260
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:54,440
Speaker 2: be looking it up someday. J U G G E

1261
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 2: r n A U t so Juggernaut gun Dogs. That's

1262
01:03:57,400 --> 01:04:02,560
Speaker 2: more like my hobby, so like photography maybe whatever, Like

1263
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:05,320
Speaker 2: follow both of them because I do put content on both,

1264
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:07,040
Speaker 2: but more training stuff is going to be on k

1265
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:11,000
Speaker 2: too Outdoors, so that yeah, and if you want to like,

1266
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 2: get in touch with me. I am. It's me and

1267
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:17,520
Speaker 2: one guy. So if you send a message through my

1268
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:19,520
Speaker 2: social media, it's gonna come to me and I will

1269
01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:20,520
Speaker 2: do my best to help you.

1270
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:24,000
Speaker 1: Awesome. I appreciate it. Brother, Thanks for coming on.

1271
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:26,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, Tony, have a good one.

1272
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:31,520
Speaker 1: That's it for this show. We're still going to be

1273
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:34,240
Speaker 1: celebrating dog Week all week. You can come back for

1274
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:39,280
Speaker 1: more interviews here, more houndations, episodes of all styles. You

1275
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:41,600
Speaker 1: can head over to the meeteater dot com check out

1276
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:44,080
Speaker 1: a bunch of articles on dogs, or if you're sick

1277
01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 1: of dogs you want to hear about something else. We

1278
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:49,120
Speaker 1: put up new articles and new films all the time.

1279
01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:51,360
Speaker 1: If you want to, you know, live a little vicariously

1280
01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:55,240
Speaker 1: through us. Mark Kenyon just dropped a really interesting show

1281
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:58,360
Speaker 1: on blacktails in Alaska. It's really cool to check out.

1282
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 1: All of that stuff is over at the medeater dot com.

1283
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:04,880
Speaker 1: Go give it a listen, go give it a look,

1284
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:07,160
Speaker 1: check it out, and as always, thank you so much

1285
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:07,840
Speaker 1: for your support.