1 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: Y'all know them. Y'all have followed them. Lord knows y'all 2 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:16,799 Speaker 1: followed them. Now tonight we are gonna be talking to 3 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:21,479 Speaker 1: Anya Cane and Kevin Greenley from Murder Sheets. Y'all know 4 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: who I'm talking about, because they have done something I'm 5 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: not even sure I know a word because I ain't 6 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 1: a writer. They are now and it is kind of 7 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,959 Speaker 1: knocking me out because they have never written a book before. 8 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 1: But not only have they've done it, they've done it magnificently, 9 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: and they've done it as a couple. Y'all know, good 10 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: and well. Sometimes it is hard to pick a Christmas 11 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: tree with a spouse, much less to side a book title. 12 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: How the chapters are going to go, how the story's 13 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: gonna unfold. That's hard. That's difficult work right there. So 14 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:04,559 Speaker 1: let's bring them in and figure out how they got 15 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: this deal done. Kevin, Anya, how are you welcome? Welcome, 16 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Zone seven. 17 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 2: We are so excited to be here, and thank you 18 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 2: so much for having us. We really appreciate it, love 19 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 2: the work you do, and it's an honor. 20 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: I just want to set the record straight if people, 21 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,479 Speaker 1: for some reason did not hear the first episode y'all 22 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 1: did with me here on Zone seven. So I just 23 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 1: want to tell people, let's talk about your book, Shadow 24 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: of the Bridge, And then you have a subtitle that 25 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: I think is so powerful, the del Phi Murders, a 26 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: dark side of the American Heartland. You couldn't have hit 27 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: that more accurate. When this trial was going on. Some 28 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: of the stuff y'all heard about was absolutely accurate. People 29 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: were having a fight for a seat, the judge wasn't 30 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: having it. The courtroom was tiny. They didn't get back 31 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: room breaks, you didn't hardly get a lunch break. You 32 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: just everything was I mean, it was almost surreal when 33 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: I got there and I thought all of these rumors, 34 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: all these crazy things are true. And the courtroom was 35 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: so tiny, y'all that if there were any haters, you 36 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: were two feet from them. I mean, you weren't but 37 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,519 Speaker 1: eight feet from the accused. And then his family was 38 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: sitting right there. You had the victim's family not even 39 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: a foot from you. It was really an odd layout 40 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: to me. Would y'all agree with that? 41 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 2: Yes? I think you just summed it up really well. 42 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 2: And I think you know you had to be almost 43 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 2: constantly scanning for threats, whether it was like maybe a 44 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 2: fight's going to breakout, or it's just really cold out, 45 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 2: or you're really hungry. So it kind of put you 46 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 2: in a weird Hunger Games esque sort of mindset. 47 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: Sure, and when I say no bathroom breaks, I'm not kidding. 48 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: If you all of a sudden had to go, there 49 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: was no re entry, you just lost half a day. Well, 50 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: fortunately there were two of you. For that, to me, 51 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: it would make it difficult because you know, any marriage, 52 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: it's never fifty to fifty. Sometimes somebody has the line's 53 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: share of whatever load is happening right now, right But 54 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: y'all had to divide and conquer and divide and conquer 55 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: and somehow come back together. And you were I mean, Anya, 56 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: I saw your notebook one day and I'm like, oh no, 57 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: I mean I thought that looks like a crazy person. 58 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: I mean, you're writing down every single word. I don't 59 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: know if you knew shorthand or not, but I just 60 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: knew page after page because you know how Kevin, you 61 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about. When you sit next to 62 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: somebody in class that you know is smarter than you, 63 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: and they're like on the third or fourth page of 64 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: notes and you've only written a couple of things down. 65 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 3: Feel that way anytime that's Kevin. 66 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 2: Okay, marriage, I. 67 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: Feel that way about both of you because I felt 68 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: like I've only written a couple of things down. How 69 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: is she on her fifth page of notes? Like, I'm 70 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,840 Speaker 1: clearly missing something? But I couldn't have written that all 71 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 1: down anyway. But here's what I thought was amazing. Number One, 72 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 1: Kevin is an attorney and Anya you are a journalist, 73 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: so with research skills, you both have it, even if 74 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: it's from a different avenue. I mean, that's how y'all met. 75 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,119 Speaker 1: So y'all had that in sync already, which I thought 76 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 1: was fabulous. But here's the part people may not know. 77 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: In this business, whether it's writing a book or doing 78 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 1: a podcast or getting on TV, whatever it is, there 79 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 1: is some competition involved, and some people are cut through 80 00:04:55,760 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: about it. Y'all were so kind and so gracious and 81 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,799 Speaker 1: helped so many people that other folks don't know about. 82 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: Y'all help me. Hear me and my sister, we didn't 83 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 1: even know what was up. We didn't know where to stand, 84 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: we didn't know where the line start and ended. We 85 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: didn't know how to take a break, we didn't know 86 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: where our cell phones went and y'all were fabulous about that. 87 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: I know y'all were all so good to Susan Hendricks 88 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 1: and other folks. I know it for a fact. I 89 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 1: know what the Prosecutor's podcast thanks of y'all and other people. 90 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: And I just think that speaks to who y'all are 91 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,840 Speaker 1: as a couple and individuals more than anything. 92 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 2: Thank you. That means a lot, I mean it, And 93 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 2: you know what it was. You guys were so nice 94 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 2: to us too. And I'm just gonna say Susan Hendrix 95 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 2: probably saved us from getting a frost bright like several 96 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 2: times over. 97 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, she's a doll. 98 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 2: She was like, let's get blankets. It was like, yeah, 99 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 2: y'all like the heat blankets. I would go up with 100 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 2: on Everest with that woman because she knows what she's doing. 101 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: But no, she's a doll and she is the same way. 102 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: But I'm saying that there was just this tight knit group, 103 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 1: like I already felt, you know, just this kinship with Kelsey, 104 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: and I just felt like I needed to be there 105 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: for her, you know what I mean, you just just 106 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: show up. There was nothing I could do. I couldn't 107 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: make anything better, but just know what I, Hey, I'm here, 108 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: I'll take you to dinner kind of thing. Well, I 109 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: just saw y'all help person after a person after person, 110 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: so I just thought that was super cool. I just 111 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: want to say that I don't know if y'all you. 112 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 3: Know, it's very nice of you to say. And you know, 113 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 3: at the end of the day, you mentioned Kelsey, And 114 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 3: at the end of the day, it really is about 115 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 3: the families, and it's about the girls, and it's about 116 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 3: their legacies and it's about honoring that. And so it's 117 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 3: not about us trying to get an exclusive or cut 118 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 3: people out. If there's people there who care about the 119 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 3: girls and the families, we want to help them so 120 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 3: they have the tools to share the truth and to 121 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 3: honor these girls. 122 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm going to say this, like it was 123 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 2: really easy to do when we were kind of modeling 124 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 2: after people like Kelsey and her family. They were so 125 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 2: kind and patient with people there. I think we've talked 126 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 2: about this on the show, but they were giving people food, 127 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 2: and I was like, people should be taking care of you, 128 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 2: and you're taking care of everybody else, you know, And 129 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 2: I'm like, Becky Patty's given everyone this, like, you know, 130 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 2: banana bread, and I told her at some point, I 131 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 2: was like, Becky, you're a better woman than I. I 132 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 2: would have been throwing that banana bread at some of 133 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 2: these jerks. And she was like, well, you know, I'm 134 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 2: just going to give food to people who are hungry. 135 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 2: And I'm like, that's amazing. So we want like when 136 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 2: we had that as sort of an inspiration, it was 137 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 2: it became easier to try to lead with some compassion 138 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 2: and kindness. I mean, I don't know, because I do 139 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 2: feel like most of the people there, such as yourself, it 140 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 2: was so nice to meet your sister. 141 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 3: She was awesome. 142 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 2: Such as yourself, and then other people who visited, they 143 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 2: just wanted the truth. And it's like we all got 144 00:07:58,120 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 2: to kind of stick together a little bit because it's 145 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 2: a difficult situation. 146 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: It was difficult, and I agree with you, Becky, Patty 147 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: was the standard. I've never seen anything like it. And 148 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: I know Charlene and I you know, we laughed about it, 149 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, I might have been passing out 150 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: some muffins, but they would have had some poison in it, 151 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: Like what do you talk about? I mean, she was 152 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: just beyond gracious and again treated everybody as best she could, 153 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: which was crazy. Y'all moved there. I mean, your whole 154 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: lives were turned upside down. And I can remember at 155 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: one point, Annie, you were saying you were so exhausted. 156 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: But every night you had to type up your notes, 157 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: You had to get things in order, you had to 158 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: get ready to get back in line to do it 159 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: all again. And you know, for y'all to keep up 160 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: with just your day to day, I mean you had 161 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: other emails, you had other responsibilities, you had bills, you 162 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 1: had a house, you had a life, you had family members. 163 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 1: That's a lot to put on old to do what 164 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: you did every day for seventeen hours a day, it 165 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:06,479 Speaker 1: was tough. 166 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:08,679 Speaker 2: And we were lucky we had people in our lives 167 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 2: who understood what we needed to do, so they weren't, 168 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 2: you know, offended when we sort of disappeared for a month. 169 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 2: The saddest thing was we didn't get to spend we 170 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 2: always are hanging out with our dog Annie. She's a 171 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,319 Speaker 2: great dog, and we had to, you know, she had 172 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 2: to spend a lot of time apart from us, and 173 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 2: I don't know, I was really worried at first, but 174 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 2: I think she had a blast with her sort of staycation. 175 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 2: So I ended up kind of being offended. It's like, 176 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 2: don't you miss us. It's like, no, I'm having all 177 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 2: the treats. It's like okay, but that was stressful. 178 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 1: I think being away from your dog would be probably 179 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: the most difficult. 180 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, but she didn't care at all. 181 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: So that's good. 182 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 2: Feel a little bit. 183 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: That's good. Now. Y'all started writing the book while the 184 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: trial was going on. Is that right? 185 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, No, that's that's what we mean. We were writing 186 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 2: throughout we so it's we Actually we had I would say, 187 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:05,079 Speaker 2: like a draft before the trial, but we wrote very rough, 188 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 2: very rough. We knew, hey, like probably half of this 189 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 2: is going to turn out to be wrong or need 190 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 2: to be scrapped, so we had something very rough, tried 191 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 2: to add to it during trial, but really wrote the 192 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 2: bulk of it after trial. Is that fair to say, Kevin? 193 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 3: That is fair to say because there was a gag 194 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 3: order in place. 195 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about that, Kevin, how 196 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: difficult that was because there's folks that are paramount you 197 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: can't interview. 198 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 3: That's right, and the people on the prosecution law enforcement side, 199 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,559 Speaker 3: the families, they took that gag order very very seriously. 200 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 3: And they did not talk to us until after the 201 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 3: gag order was lifted, which was at the end of December, 202 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,199 Speaker 3: and we had to deliver the book at the end 203 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:46,959 Speaker 3: of January. 204 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,839 Speaker 1: Wow, that's a lot of work really quick. 205 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it was like a power host. We were working. 206 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 2: How long a day were we working after that January? 207 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 3: We were working seventeen to eighteen hours a day. 208 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was intense. 209 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I figured it had to be seventeen it had 210 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: to be. Now again, as a married couple, how did 211 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:13,559 Speaker 1: y'all I'm sure there were no arguments or fights about me, 212 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 1: of course, No, of course not. I mean, I can't 213 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: even imagine what you would argue about. So even from 214 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: the title who kind of well, I don't know not who. 215 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: But how did y'all decide who was going to do 216 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 1: what and how the job was divided up? Or did 217 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 1: y'all just do everything together at the same time. 218 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 2: So you know what you said earlier about trying to 219 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 2: divide and conquer. I think that's what smart people would do. 220 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 2: I don't know whether it's codependency or we were just 221 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 2: like relying on each other during the trial. Kevin and 222 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 2: I didn't do that as much as we probably could 223 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 2: or even should have. You know, we talked a lot 224 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 2: about it. Hey maybe I'll go one day, you go 225 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 2: the next day, and we'll kind of you know, one 226 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 2: person can sleeve, one person can go to trial. But 227 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 2: we were so stressed we kind of just never really 228 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 2: separated that much except for a couple of occasions, and 229 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 2: that's kind of been the whole way we've worked through 230 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 2: the And I think you're asking about the title. So 231 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 2: I was really happy about this because the cover of 232 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 2: the book is actually you know, a photograph that Kevin took, 233 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,199 Speaker 2: and the title is what I came up with because 234 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 2: I sort of felt like, you know, shadow of the Bridge. 235 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 2: I mean, it all centers upon what happened on this 236 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 2: bridge and it kind of cast everything into shadow for 237 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 2: all these years to come. So I kind of felt 238 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 2: and like the girls were, you know, forced down the 239 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 2: hill kind of into this shadowy area. It's just kind 240 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 2: of so that was something we kind of teamed up 241 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 2: on and we both kind of got something on the 242 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 2: cover there. 243 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 3: And then we sat down very early on in the process, 244 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 3: i think right after the trial, and we started having 245 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 3: conversations about how to organize the book because, as you well, 246 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 3: know this is a very very comple Cadences story. 247 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: And so very complicated. 248 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, we had to figure out how to tell it, 249 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 3: which includes what do we want to leave out, what 250 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 3: do we have to include, what do we stress? And 251 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 3: we developed a very very rough outline, and then we 252 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 3: would each take different sections of it and write a 253 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 3: rough draft of that section, and then we kind of 254 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 3: change them and revise each other's word. 255 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm gonna tell her this and Kevin's going 256 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 2: to kill me, probably, But I remember there was this 257 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:29,839 Speaker 2: one day where it was like, Okay, I'm going to 258 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 2: look at Kevin's section two and you kind of had 259 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 2: left it more in a rough draft form, and I 260 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 2: was like, oh my god, are you kidding me? And 261 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 2: then I looked at and I was like, I am 262 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 2: like how why is this happening? And then I look 263 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 2: at his section like five or whatever, and I was like, 264 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 2: this is brilliant. So I was laughing. We were laughing. Afterwards. 265 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, I was about to kind of 266 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 2: yell at you about section two, but second five so good. 267 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: I can't be mad the rest of your marriage anytime 268 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,559 Speaker 1: she says anything crazy to go hey, section five. 269 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 2: Section five, Okay, so during the trial before trial happened, 270 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 2: we had a conversation where we were like, you know, 271 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 2: because you know, we get along very well, but it's 272 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 2: not like we fight a lot. But we knew our 273 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 2: tensions were going to be really high and it was 274 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 2: going to be stressful. So we said, let's just try 275 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 2: to be really really patient with one another. If someone's 276 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 2: being kind of snippy, let it go. If someone's being 277 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 2: kind of annoying, just let it go. Like let's just 278 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 2: kind of roll with it. And we were able to 279 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 2: really hold to that I think treaty, and it was great. 280 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 2: And the one time and this was I just thought 281 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 2: the funniest thing. 282 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: You know. 283 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 2: We were spending a lot of time in Monticello, which 284 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 2: is a city in White County that's pretty near Delphi, 285 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 2: and that's where we were staying for a lot of it. 286 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 2: But we were in this I think it was a 287 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 2: McDonald's and we were getting into we were getting into 288 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 2: an argument about something like not yelling at a McDonald's, 289 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 2: but like just kind of like, oh, come on, you know, 290 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 2: like that kind of thing. And I remember like punching 291 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 2: in this like the chicken nuggets order onto the Kiosk 292 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 2: screen and being like, oh, you know, just aggravating each other. 293 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 2: And then one of our sources called and we talked 294 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 2: to them quickly, and then we were like, wait, what 295 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 2: were we even fighting about. We didn't even remember, so 296 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 2: we were just kind of laughed about it because we 297 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 2: were like that whatever it was was obviously not very sure. 298 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to tell you if y'all can survive this, 299 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: because there were days y'all were cold, you were sleep deprived, 300 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: you were hungry. You couldn't just take a break when 301 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: you wanted to. You had to stay in that courtroom. 302 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: You had to stay silent. You know, you didn't have 303 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: your phone, you didn't have your dog. So that's a 304 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: testament it should be easy straight now, honey. 305 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 2: That's what And that's what I think it was weird 306 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 2: because when we that was difficult. I think it was 307 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 2: harder when we came back eventually because it was like, 308 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 2: we want to just be back to normal, and it 309 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 2: took a while, so there was a learning curve. So 310 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 2: I think that was where you know, we need to 311 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 2: stop only working or only talking about work, or like 312 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 2: we can't let every conversation just become Delphi, which is 313 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 2: what it had been for a while and kind of like, hey, 314 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 2: let's go out and do activities that are non crime related. 315 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 2: That's where it became important for us to try to 316 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 2: regain some distance where we can work together, but then 317 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 2: also not let work dominate our lives. 318 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: That's really smart. And I think it's smart that y'all 319 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: had these things in place before you really started, because 320 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: it could have been real different. 321 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, gosh, you know, I'm we've had 322 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 2: a lot of practice communicating. 323 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I had I had this nightmarish memory. I 324 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 3: remember reading an article where Jimmy Carter of all people, 325 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 3: talked about the process of writing a book with his wife, 326 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 3: and of course they had famously a wonderful marriage, and 327 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 3: it was like, that's the closest we ever came to divorce. 328 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 2: Really weirdly, we probably we gotten more annoyed with each 329 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 2: other writing a book than actually being a trial. I 330 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 2: think that because we had more energy to be annoyed. 331 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 2: But I think we eventually The thing is, I am like, 332 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 2: so I throw in way too many details, I missing details. 333 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 2: I'm throwing everything at you to the point where it's 334 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 2: slowing everything down. And then Kevin takes too much stuff 335 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 2: out he cuts too much, and it's like, wait, this 336 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 2: doesn't even mean anything anymore because we have no idea 337 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 2: what we're talking about here. So, you know, we had 338 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 2: to find a balance between that, and I hope we 339 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 2: achieved that, but it was a situation where it was 340 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 2: kind of we are dealing with slightly different writing styles 341 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 2: and writing like Ethos, so it was important to kind 342 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 2: of without getting mad, without making it personal, without getting upset, 343 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 2: just figure out how do we give each other feedback 344 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 2: and balance it. And I think we achieved that. 345 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: It's beautifully done. And I'm going to tell you you 346 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: know how they said the Beatles wrote like John would 347 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: write something and then Paul would write something, and they 348 00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 1: would blend it. I can't even tail where it's blended. 349 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: It's just y'all. I think it is beautifully done. 350 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 2: That's a wonderful thing. 351 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 3: So yet we were really worried it would sound like 352 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 3: two different people like. 353 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 2: Up here's Anya to get really, you know, overly sentimental 354 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 2: about something, and then up Kevin's gonna give some legal jargon. 355 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 2: You know, that was what we were worried about. 356 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: I think it is so just fluid. It is fantastic, 357 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 1: Like even the way you handled odinism. Talk a little 358 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 1: bit about that, like who first broached Hey, should we? 359 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: Should we not? Is it relevant? Is it not relevant? 360 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 2: Yeah? No, that's a great question because we you know, 361 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 2: I think we did an outline. We were like, wow, 362 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 2: we're putting a lot into odinism right now. And I 363 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 2: think the way we viewed odinism is you can't tell 364 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 2: the story without getting into it in some level, but 365 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 2: that you know, we don't necessarily want to overinflate its 366 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,959 Speaker 2: importance either, And we also didn't want to do anything 367 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 2: where it was almost like trying to you know, how 368 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 2: do I say this like whitewashing, Like we didn't want 369 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,679 Speaker 2: to put it in there as like, oh, this is 370 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 2: a normal theory that made a lot of sense, you know, 371 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 2: but we also didn't want to necessarily like write it off. 372 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 2: So I think we tried to balance that and we 373 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 2: looked at it as you know, this is something that 374 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 2: the defense of Richard Allen, for whether or not people 375 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 2: agree with this or not, they went all out on 376 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 2: and as a result, you have to at least look 377 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 2: at it, and in fairness, the only reason the defense 378 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 2: went all out and it is because you know, at 379 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:35,160 Speaker 2: some point investigators looked into it and documented their findings, 380 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 2: so they were coming from it was coming from discovery, 381 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 2: So we wanted to look at it, but we wanted 382 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,439 Speaker 2: to apply a more critical lens to it. 383 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: Then. 384 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 2: I think it's gotten in a lot of mainstream media 385 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 2: outlets where you know, understandably, you're a reporter, you got 386 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 2: a five o'clock deadline, the defense just filed this wild thing, 387 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 2: and you're thinking, hey, they're the defense attorneys. It must 388 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:58,919 Speaker 2: be some you know, there must be some level of 389 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 2: credibility here. Let's oh and you know, I think they're 390 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 2: running with it, but they're not necessarily like looking into 391 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 2: it as much as we did and as much as 392 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 2: others did. Actually, not just us, but I think people 393 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 2: who are more in the new media actually were a 394 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 2: little bit more skeptical at some of this over time 395 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 2: because they were able to really go in and say, well, 396 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,640 Speaker 2: they're saying this, but I'm not so sure, but yeah, 397 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 2: I don't know. So that's kind of where we were 398 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 2: coming from it. We didn't want to just erase it, 399 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 2: but we also didn't want to just present it as 400 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 2: like kind of you know, we wanted to kind of 401 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 2: just put the facts out there. No. 402 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: I think that was the best way to do it, 403 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: because if you didn't have it, people would use that 404 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: is see, they didn't even want to talk about it. 405 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: They know better, and I know, like Kevin for me, 406 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 1: I was on Nancy Grace that week that all that 407 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: came out, and she's like, I want you to weigh 408 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 1: in on Odinism, and I'm like, girl, I've never heard 409 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,640 Speaker 1: of it. I think I know who odin was kind 410 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: of sort of, but I don't have any idea what 411 00:20:55,440 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: this would look like like whatever they're proposing occurred. Well, 412 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: every single expert that I knew didn't know anything about it. 413 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: So that's when I started to craft this ain't this 414 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: ain't it If nobody I know has ever heard of it, 415 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: nobody's responded to it, nobody's ever worked it, that ain't 416 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: what you're saying here. 417 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 3: That's an excellent point. It's very hard to say, oh, 418 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 3: this crime happened this certain way if you can't point 419 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 3: to any other instance in the history of mankind where 420 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,920 Speaker 3: the crime happened this certain way. And no one could 421 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 3: point to any instance where Odinism or white supremacists committed 422 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 3: a ritual homicide of two white girls Yeah. 423 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 2: We talked to a terrific expert named Stuart Wexler who 424 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 2: looked into like white supremacy and things like that, so 425 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 2: he had a background in this, and you know, he 426 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,400 Speaker 2: pointed out that, hey, there can be situations where white 427 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 2: supremacists norse, pagans, odinis, whatever you want to call them, 428 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 2: where they've assassinated people. But the case he was talking 429 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 2: about was an adult man who was a DJ who 430 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 2: was like against the white supremacist and making fun of 431 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 2: them on his show. When you're talking about white children, 432 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,120 Speaker 2: white supremacists tend to be, you know, wanting to have 433 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 2: more of those, you know, and like that's not really 434 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 2: who they're going to be targeting. They're going to be 435 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 2: targeting people who are minorities or people who are their 436 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,199 Speaker 2: perceived enemies, and so you know, kind of portraying it 437 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 2: as a ritual sacrifice. It's like, okay, but how is 438 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 2: it a ritual if it's only ever been done once 439 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:32,880 Speaker 2: as far as we. 440 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: Know, right, and wasn't done well. 441 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, and like also here's something that was just so 442 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 2: annoying about this whole thing that I just people were 443 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 2: just like, oh, well, there are sticks on the bodies, 444 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 2: so those are runs. Here's a question. If I threw 445 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 2: out a bunch of sticks in my yard, some of 446 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 2: them might resemble like the letter B or the letter B, 447 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 2: But if they don't really actually spell anything, then what 448 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 2: are we doing here? Like we can't you can't make 449 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 2: something out of nothing like it either well something or 450 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 2: a dozen. 451 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: And that's what I was trying to say. It wasn't 452 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 1: done well. I mean, if you had a you know, pentagram, 453 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,880 Speaker 1: it should be clear. If you have a goat's head, 454 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: it should be clear. If you've got six six six, 455 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 1: it should be clear. Like there was nothing that anybody 456 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: could see that this was Oh, I see what the 457 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 1: you know, activity is supposed to be. I say, what 458 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 1: the meaning is supposed to be wasn't there at all. 459 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 2: I'm a Catholic, right and we have you know, symbols 460 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 2: or there might be like things that represent like a 461 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 2: different saint or whatever. And it's like if the symbols 462 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 2: are so murky and obscure that they don't really mean anything, 463 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 2: Like how am I supposed to signal to another Catholic 464 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 2: what I'm trying to do here? Like, you know, like 465 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 2: language needs some level of clarity, even if it's a 466 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 2: secret language or an obscure language, because otherwise it's not 467 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 2: a language, it's just a vagueness. 468 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 1: Anya, that's a great point. Now, Kevin, let me ask 469 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: you this, As y'all are talking and having back and 470 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,160 Speaker 1: forth and you're waiting for the gag order to be lifted, 471 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:08,199 Speaker 1: how did y'all then decide to approach and include the 472 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 1: family story. 473 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 3: Well, we knew the family story was absolutely crucial. We 474 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 3: both felt that in a lot of coverage of the case, 475 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 3: people were talking so much about Owenism and all these 476 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:26,120 Speaker 3: other things that the girls were getting lost in their 477 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 3: own stories, to be honest, But at the same time, 478 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 3: we didn't want to intrude and we didn't want to 479 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 3: take any precious memories that the family had and try 480 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,360 Speaker 3: to exploit them. So we really tried to be respectful 481 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:44,119 Speaker 3: in that regard. 482 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, we sort of went to the families and sort 483 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 2: of just approached it very gently and said, this is 484 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 2: our intention with the book. We'd like to tell the truth. 485 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,439 Speaker 2: We'd like to center the fact that we think Abby 486 00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 2: and Liby are heroes because we think that they solved this. 487 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 2: But you know, yeah, so I mean, like, so that's 488 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 2: our intention. That's where we're coming from, but don't feel 489 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 2: like you have to, like, you know, just give us 490 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 2: your memories so we can you know, have them for 491 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,479 Speaker 2: the book, like those are yours. If there's stuff you 492 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,440 Speaker 2: want to bring to us to our attention, we would 493 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 2: be happy to you know, kind of talk about that 494 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 2: and whatnot, but also don't feel pressure. So that was 495 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,199 Speaker 2: sort of a way that people could come to us 496 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 2: at their own pace and do what they wanted to do, 497 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 2: versus like feeling like they had to. And you know, 498 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 2: I think that was something that I feel good about 499 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 2: doing because you don't want to ignore the family story. 500 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 2: You don't want to not reach out and have them engaged, 501 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 2: but you also don't want to just be like running 502 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 2: them down and beating on their door and stressing them out. 503 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,920 Speaker 2: So we tried to have kind of a way where 504 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 2: they could feel empowered to do what they wanted to do. 505 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: I think one of the most difficult things about covering 506 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:57,119 Speaker 1: any case that you are so intimately involved in, you know, 507 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,400 Speaker 1: things that don't make it to coort, you know, things 508 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 1: the jury never heard. I think that's an important part 509 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 1: of this book too, that y'all are both able to 510 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: now tell things people did not know. 511 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was so hard sometimes because you know, for 512 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,439 Speaker 2: safety reasons or for reasons of trying to preserve the 513 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 2: case or Richard Allen's rights. Even in some instances you can't. 514 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 2: You can't just share everything you know at all times. 515 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,639 Speaker 2: It just wouldn't be responsible. But you do want to 516 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 2: inform the public, and I think this book was the 517 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 2: chance to kind of give people a peek behind the 518 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,360 Speaker 2: curtains and here, here's what was really going on when 519 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 2: this whole thing was happening. And I think we feel 520 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,640 Speaker 2: in that way, but I think the investigators did too. 521 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 2: When we talked to them, they were you know a 522 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 2: lot of them would be like, oh man, I'm so glad, 523 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 2: like finally I can tell people about this situation happened. 524 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, because you know, you've got some 525 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 1: folks that have been pretty vocal online about how corrupt 526 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,399 Speaker 1: the law enforcement is, how the judge was crazy, how 527 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 1: everybody that thinks Richard Allen did it is on and 528 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 1: it's some big conspiracy. They had zero evidence. I mean, 529 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 1: you've heard all so again, I think there's some parts 530 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: of this book where people are gonna be like, Okay, well, 531 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: that's hard to refute. Oh, I didn't realize that could 532 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: y'all put things in such a succinct way. And I 533 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: don't want to give things away, but y'all, when I 534 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 1: tell you, I think Anya just said it perfect. 535 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 3: It is. 536 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: You get a peek behind the curtain for sure. 537 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, you get to see some of the fights between 538 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:33,879 Speaker 2: law enforcement. You get to see some of the like 539 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 2: instances where they were like, you know, going back and 540 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 2: forth or not sure what to do, or they maybe 541 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 2: felt they did the wrong thing. So like it's going 542 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 2: to be warts and all, but I really appreciate that. 543 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 2: I think one thing that for me, there's a handful 544 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 2: of people and it really is a small group. When 545 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,400 Speaker 2: you look at them, they're just very loud where they're 546 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,680 Speaker 2: just I mean, I hate to say this, but it's 547 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,919 Speaker 2: almost like a cult where they've just like made this 548 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,159 Speaker 2: their whole personalities, where they think everything's a conspiracy and 549 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 2: everyone's evil except for them, and so, I mean, they're 550 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 2: all very badly behaved and ridiculous. And some of them 551 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 2: are in the book, but I would say most people 552 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 2: who you encounter, they're just not sure and that's understandable. 553 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 2: They're just like, hey, I read a couple headlines or 554 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 2: I read a couple articles. I don't really understand the case, 555 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 2: and I don't feel comfortable with the idea that someone 556 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,919 Speaker 2: went to prison if I'm not sure that that's the 557 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 2: guy who did it. And it's like, hey, I understand 558 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 2: where you're coming from. I'd probably be in the same 559 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,639 Speaker 2: boat if I hadn't seen all of this. And so 560 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,160 Speaker 2: this book is a chance to give people an opportunity 561 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 2: to kind of make up their own minds based on everything, 562 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 2: and in the end they may come to different conclusions. 563 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 2: They can at least be starting from the foundation of 564 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 2: having all the relevant information. 565 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: And I would imagine too. I mean, Kevin can't take 566 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: his attorney had off. He can't. That's the way he's 567 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,760 Speaker 1: trained to think. And when you have to make a decision, 568 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 1: do we include that Richard Allen's wife didn't I make 569 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: the stand? Do we include that or not? Because I 570 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: think you made a great point on you that, yeah, 571 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: he's got rights and those have got to be respected 572 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: and he may appeal. So you don't want to do 573 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,400 Speaker 1: anything to hurt the integrity. But at the same time, 574 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: you're sitting there writing with an attorney sitting to your left, 575 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 1: breathing down my neck and breathing down your neck, trying 576 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: to ruin your book. 577 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 2: Watching me like shying attorney hat. 578 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: Honey, you better put allegedly. I don't want to say allegedly, you're. 579 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 2: Gonna go nuts at this. But sometimes I always felt 580 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 2: like I was the more I mean, on the show, 581 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 2: I'm the hot head and Kevin's the cool mister cool. 582 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 2: But behind the scenes sometimes I could be the more 583 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 2: cautious one because I would be like, I don't know, 584 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 2: like like, let's get a couple more sources on this, 585 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 2: and Kevin's like, let's go. So we don't try to 586 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 2: be cautious. We also don't want to be unfair to anybody. 587 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 2: You know, there were certain people who just would not participate, 588 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 2: and we're not gonna pull punches or white water just 589 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 2: because people don't participate. But we also don't want to 590 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 2: just be like, oh, we're in somebody's head when we're not. 591 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 2: I think like, there's there's situations too where, yeah, you know, 592 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 2: and like we never want to just kitchen sink somebody 593 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 2: like throw everything but the kitchen sink at them. So 594 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 2: you know, with with Richard Allen, there'd be certain things 595 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 2: where you know, we ultimately felt very much that he 596 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 2: was guilty as charged and the jury made the right 597 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 2: call and should that verdict should be respected. But at 598 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 2: the same time, there would be things that people would 599 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 2: make a big deal about that we would say we 600 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 2: didn't really feel like that was so much of a 601 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 2: big deal. Like, you know, when he was on a 602 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 2: recording saying I'll just tell them what they want to hear. 603 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 2: Some people thought that sounded like a confession. We kind 604 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 2: of thought that sounded like it could be something incriminating, 605 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 2: or it could be just more of him saying I'll 606 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 2: just tell the detectives what they want to hear, even 607 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 2: if it's not true. So we're not going to you know, 608 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 2: beat up on him on that. So we tried to 609 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 2: be like just thoughtful about what we felt was really 610 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 2: relevant versus what is just kind of you know, noise 611 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 2: is If that makes sense. 612 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: Well, I did learn something just then Kevin and I 613 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: should not write a book together so much. It would 614 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: be fabulous, but we might get so so I didn't 615 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: have a question. Let's go, you know. 616 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 2: I'll just be there with my editor hat on, and 617 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 2: then you guys can be like kind of a little cowd. 618 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: You know, in Kevin's defense, I mean Richard Allen did 619 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,959 Speaker 1: say I did it. I killed Abby and Libby. 620 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 2: Yes, And we we with our with where we were 621 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 2: going with this. We wanted to everything we were going 622 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 2: to have was either going to be in the court 623 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 2: record or something where it would be like we had 624 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 2: multiple sources all saying the same thing independently, So we 625 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 2: tried to make sure that everything was vetted. I mean, 626 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 2: one thing that I kind of have had a bit 627 00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 2: of heartburn about, you know, was just like, hey, like 628 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 2: it's it's it's something where you know, like you know, 629 00:31:57,840 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 2: you want to I mean, it would have been nice 630 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 2: to at people from Alan's side and from Allan's family 631 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 2: sort of just sharing their story, and that I mean 632 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 2: we asked for that, We pushed for that, and and 633 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 2: that was with the intention of we'd really love to 634 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 2: have been able to talk to them, figure out how 635 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 2: they felt about things, and humanize their stories even more. 636 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 2: But you know, at the same time, when people don't 637 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 2: want to participate, that's their right. But it doesn't mean that, 638 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 2: you know, we did our due diligence there as far 639 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 2: as I'm concerned. 640 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: Okay, I want to ask both of you, because I 641 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: know this was a labor of love. I know it 642 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: was tasking. I know it was hard work. I know it, 643 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: and especially working with somebody love, I mean, that is 644 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: not always easy. 645 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 2: You know. 646 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: My grandmama, she would say, travel with them or build 647 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: something with them, that's how you'll figure out what they're about. 648 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: But I would add to that and I'd say cover 649 00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 1: a case with them. It's a lot, but y'all have 650 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,959 Speaker 1: done it brilliantly. But I want to ask both of you, 651 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: what was your favorite section of the book. What was 652 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: your favorite thing that came out, or the way you 653 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: put it together, whatever just grew you the most. 654 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 3: I'm so impressed with Anya's writing in general, and most 655 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 3: of the book I think, certainly it was like fifty 656 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 3: to fifty, but one section that she did on her 657 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 3: own completely was the very ending, and we've heard from 658 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 3: so many people that it brought a tear to their eyes, 659 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,800 Speaker 3: and I was really affected by it. I just thought 660 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 3: it was some wonderful writing, and just generally throughout the process, 661 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 3: I've really been blessed to work with someone as talented 662 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 3: as she is. It makes it a whole lot easier 663 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 3: when if you're working on a project and you look 664 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 3: over and your partner is someone as wonderful and as 665 00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 3: talented as Anya Kid, sweetie. 666 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 2: I'm going to cry. Now, well, that's really nice Kevin. 667 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, Kevin is easy to work with because 668 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 2: he is easy going and he undercuts my ridiculous perfectionist tendency. 669 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 2: So I'll be someone who's like, oh, geez, like, we 670 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 2: got to get this paragraph, and he'll just be like, 671 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 2: calm down, and I'll be like, yeah, that's fair, and 672 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 2: he'll say it in a nicer way than just calm down. 673 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 2: He'll be able to actually help me, and he is 674 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 2: great to work with. I really liked I think I 675 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 2: mentioned I section five. I think that was the section 676 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,840 Speaker 2: where the investigators are starting to kind of piece together 677 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 2: the lead that ultimately led them to Richard Allen. 678 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 3: Is that right? Yeah? 679 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 2: And I thought Kevin wrote that it just felt very propulsive, 680 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,399 Speaker 2: It felt like it was like pushing us forward, and 681 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 2: that I was excited to read that because even though 682 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 2: I knew exactly what happened, and I'd gone over it 683 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 2: in my head so many times, he was able to 684 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 2: cut it down, edit it, and piece it together in 685 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 2: a way that just felt really like you're watching this 686 00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 2: happen almost and it's chilling, it's disturbing, but it's also 687 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 2: something that you want to know what happens next. And 688 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,279 Speaker 2: I think that for me. And then another thing for 689 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 2: me was we got the opportunity to talk to some 690 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 2: of these investigators. And I know this is something that 691 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 2: you'd appreciate, but just like learning about the human beings 692 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 2: behind the job and their personalities and what they struggled 693 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 2: with and getting to help them try to, you know, 694 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 2: kind of almost making them come alive a little bit 695 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,399 Speaker 2: in the book, or at least attempting to do that 696 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 2: was gratifying because it was like, these guys are really good, 697 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 2: solid guys, and they're solid investigators, and you know, for 698 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 2: reasons that are understandable to a certain extent, but also 699 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,320 Speaker 2: for reasons that are kind of nonsense. At this point, 700 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 2: a lot of them have been you know, the investigation 701 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,239 Speaker 2: was really maligned as like, oh and nept and incompetent 702 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 2: and horrible and all these people are all obviously corrupt 703 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 2: because it's not solved yet, and I think that's the 704 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 2: furthest thing from the truth. I think they there were 705 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 2: mistakes made, There were problems. Any investigation is going to 706 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 2: have that, but these people never gave up, and they 707 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 2: should be celebrated for that. I think that's what we 708 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 2: should want from law enforcement. You know that they're going 709 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 2: to continue to try to investigate even if things are 710 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 2: not always looking good. And that's what these guys did. 711 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 1: Y'all. Go get Shadow of the Bridge. Go get it. 712 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:26,759 Speaker 1: It is a masterpiece, y'all. I cannot tell you how 713 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 1: much I have enjoyed talking to y'all again. I adore 714 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: a good love story. I'm a sucker for a good couple, 715 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 1: but I'm going to tell you it just brings me 716 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 1: joy when I see a good couple succeed. So I'm 717 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 1: going to end Zone seven the way that I always 718 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 1: do with a quote. When I first suggested the podcast, 719 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:53,839 Speaker 1: it was before we were married or living together. Part 720 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 1: of my thinking was, at least this way I get 721 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,880 Speaker 1: to talk to her for an hour a week. Kevin 722 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:05,320 Speaker 1: Greenley about Anya came Murder Sheets podcast. 723 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:07,799 Speaker 3: Thank you so much. 724 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:08,799 Speaker 2: It's romantic. 725 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,840 Speaker 1: I'm Cheryl mccollumn and this is Zone seven. 726 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 3: Mm hmm.