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Speaker 1: Okay, So I was just talking to someone about I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to overstate this. I'm just going to say

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Speaker 1: it as a as a framework about making an analogy

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Speaker 1: to business with relationships only as it pertains to both

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Speaker 1: parties bringing something to the table. So, for example, I

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Speaker 1: have a relief work partner. We were just talking about

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Speaker 1: the fires, and his name is Michael Caponi, and it's

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Speaker 1: my longest marriage, he and I. It's been seven years

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Speaker 1: and under the most stressful times in the war, like

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Speaker 1: more stressful than I've ever had in any relationship, like

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Speaker 1: we almost got scammed on thirteen million dollars worth of

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Speaker 1: hazmat suits or in the Ppe crisis. He was like, Beth,

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to fucking jump off a balcony. Are

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Speaker 1: you killing me? Like you know, I'm on his ass.

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Speaker 1: I was on his ass last week about something like

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Speaker 1: It's but he I've never met someone who can keep

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Speaker 1: up with me and who has exactly is exactly as

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Speaker 1: valuable and proficient, but in completely different ways. And there's

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Speaker 1: never a question about who's doing more work or who's

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Speaker 1: bringing more to the table. It's sort of like all

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Speaker 1: in good faith and we both like are It's a

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Speaker 1: really equal partnership, even though it has like we literally

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Speaker 1: do completely different things at different times. So the reason

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Speaker 1: I bring that up is because in relationships, I don't

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Speaker 1: think it should be like a tit for tat where

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Speaker 1: it's like you have to do this and I have

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Speaker 1: to do that. But I think that there should be

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Speaker 1: sort of it's not it's not it's like sort of

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Speaker 1: the if it's important to you, it's important to me.

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Speaker 1: It's the unconditional thing. It's it's the not not the

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Speaker 1: things that they did or that you did, but both

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Speaker 1: of you sort of want to put chips in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the table just because you want to. The

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Speaker 1: best relationship that I've ever been in is one where

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Speaker 1: I want to give, like the way I am with gifts,

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Speaker 1: Like we want to give more than you want to receive,

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Speaker 1: and then hopefully the other person wants to give more

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Speaker 1: than receive and then you know, all boats rise at

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Speaker 1: the tide. So I kind of wanted to talk about

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Speaker 1: that because I've been in situations where I'm the giving

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Speaker 1: tree and then I bend and then I break, and

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Speaker 1: once you've broken, you can't mend it. And like people take, take,

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Speaker 1: take and push push, push, and just accept that they

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Speaker 1: are the taker in the relationship. But I think it's

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Speaker 1: sort of the mistake my kindness for weakness thing. So

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Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about that whole like meat.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting as you're talking, I'm sitting here taking notes

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Speaker 2: because there's a lot to chew on here. I think

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Speaker 2: you're correct in that the central metaphor of my coaching

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Speaker 2: is that you're the CEO of your love life, and

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Speaker 2: men are the interns applying for a job, and you

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Speaker 2: have to see if he's worthy of this job. And

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Speaker 2: there's one job at the company. It's a really important job,

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Speaker 2: and so it's a lot based on not just how

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Speaker 2: his resume looks, for how he interviews at the beginning,

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Speaker 2: but the consistent effort he continues to put in over

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Speaker 2: time once he has the job.

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Speaker 1: Wow, I keep forgetting that that's your main thing, and

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Speaker 1: that's the most important thing. If I only operated like

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Speaker 1: that every day, that's a great premise.

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Speaker 2: But sincerely, if I were talking to men, I'd say,

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Speaker 2: you're the CEO, and we need to pay attention to

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Speaker 2: how she makes you feel, to how she treats you.

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Speaker 2: That's the two way street. So whoever I'm talking to.

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Speaker 2: I'm giving them the sense of power that you don't

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Speaker 2: have to put up with this bullshit.

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Speaker 1: But that's with the tide, that's what you're saying. That's

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Speaker 1: all bangers. That's having an all star team in your

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Speaker 1: office versus one person dragging everybody down. That's the same thing, right.

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Speaker 2: And so you you mentioned both people wanting to be givers.

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Speaker 2: No one could have a successful relationship if there's one

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Speaker 2: giver and one taker. Now what makes that more complicated

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Speaker 2: is that we're all experts on what we give and

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Speaker 2: what we sacrifice.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: We always pay.

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Speaker 2: Attention to what we do. We don't always know what

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Speaker 2: other people are doing. So your premise itself is a

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Speaker 2: good one. It's the right one. If you find that

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Speaker 2: you're always given a relationship, well, I guess from here

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Speaker 2: on end.

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Speaker 3: You got a data giver. But there's also lots of

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Speaker 3: forms of giving. Right.

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Speaker 2: I'm married to a woman who hasn't worked since we

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Speaker 2: had kids. Her giving is gonna look different than my giving, right, Right,

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Speaker 2: And I'm going to value that because that's what she

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Speaker 2: has to give. She's an active service person, right, So

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Speaker 2: we have to look at this through different lenses. Last

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Speaker 2: thing that based on your notes. That I wanted to

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Speaker 2: bring up, which I think is also important, and it's

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Speaker 2: not to poke fun at you, is that I want

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Speaker 2: a guy who keeps up with me, which is true.

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Speaker 3: No one's going to argue.

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Speaker 2: That you shouldn't have to use smaller words for a

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Speaker 2: guy to keep up, right, Like that's true. But what

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Speaker 2: a lot of people forget is that in addition to

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Speaker 2: keeping up with someone, there's putting up with someone right,

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Speaker 2: and humility. That last piece is kind of everything for

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Speaker 2: a relationship. There's just knowing, Hey, I'm a lot, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: I want a man who could keep up with me,

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Speaker 2: but also I want of men who could put up

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Speaker 2: with me and all the stuff that comes with it

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Speaker 2: and having that humility.

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Speaker 3: And it's not just you. I could say the same

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Speaker 3: thing about myself.

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Speaker 1: But I would reframe that and say who celebrates you?

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Speaker 1: Because putting up with is a little net Like, for example,

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Speaker 1: I was out to dinner with the Gate couple the

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Speaker 1: other night. They've been together for I don't know, it

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Speaker 1: might have been fifteen twenty years, and they're great and

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Speaker 1: one of them is like a finance guy, and one

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Speaker 1: of them is more of a creative like media guy,

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Speaker 1: and he's more funny and wacky, and he's the peacock.

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Speaker 1: And the finance guy really celebrates you know. The other

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Speaker 1: guy like isn't like rolling his eyes, it's not too

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Speaker 1: much like he likes when he gets lit and crazy.

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Speaker 1: And they were saying, you need that, like you need that,

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Speaker 1: you're the you, and the other person totally gets a

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Speaker 1: kick out of it, loves when you get lit, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: Not the light dimming, but also not like yeah, not

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Speaker 1: the light dimming, and not someone who doesn't want to

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Speaker 1: be part of the circus. Someone who appreciates the circus,

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Speaker 1: loves the circus. Like to me, that's that's what we're saying.

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Speaker 1: It's not just putting up with it's celebrating it.

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Speaker 3: Right, But it's both.

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Speaker 2: And obviously that person's going to be attracted to all

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Speaker 2: the things that make you you, right, so we need

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Speaker 2: we need both. And thinking, of course, if a woman

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Speaker 2: likes a man who's got charisma, my wife, my wife,

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Speaker 2: you know, had a whole series of charismatic boyfriends who

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Speaker 2: cheated on her, right, that's her thing.

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Speaker 3: Her dad was charismatic.

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Speaker 2: So if someone likes charisma, that is going to be

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Speaker 2: a thing that she's drawn to like a moth to

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Speaker 2: a flame. There's also what comes with that, exactly right,

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Speaker 2: which someone does indeed have to put up with. Oh,

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Speaker 2: every time my husband goes to a party's going to

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Speaker 2: be surrounded by women.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, No, it's the rose that has pedal and thorns.

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Speaker 1: That's what I think.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, So that's what I'm saying is recognizing that

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Speaker 2: all good qualities come with bad qualities. And yes, we

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Speaker 2: could celebrate what makes Bethany Bethany. And there's a there's

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Speaker 2: a downside to the circus, and he is the guy

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Speaker 2: who's willing to put up with that, and that's no

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Speaker 2: small thing.

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Speaker 1: Right, Let's also talk about this. So there's two things. One,

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Speaker 1: there's a guy, Nick Viiel. He has a podcast. I've

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Speaker 1: never listened to it, and I know I think he

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Speaker 1: was on reality TV or The Bachelor or something, but

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Speaker 1: I saw a clip from his show where he was

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Speaker 1: talking about hookup culture, which is not what I'm really

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Speaker 1: talking about, but he was basically saying, no man will

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Speaker 1: ever like fall in love with you for the sex

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Speaker 1: they fall in love with, like the mystique and what

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Speaker 1: they can't have. He was saying, like, you know a

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Speaker 1: lot of women will try to keep giving, whether it's

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Speaker 1: of sex or of emotion or of a material to

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Speaker 1: try to like you're chasing the dragon, trying to get it.

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Speaker 1: And there's another woman on social media that has a

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Speaker 1: black Cat Golden Retriever theory. She's like, don't be giving

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Speaker 1: him a bunch of gifts, don't be going out of

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Speaker 1: your way. She's like, she believes in the black Cat

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Speaker 1: Golden Retriever. That like, you want to be the black

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Speaker 1: cat and the guy the Golden Retriever like that, And

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Speaker 1: so I want to know what you think about these

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Speaker 1: sort of like unintentional gamifications of it, like the guys

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Speaker 1: want what they can't have type of thing.

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Speaker 2: I'm taking copious notes because it's interesting to hear what

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Speaker 2: other people have to say and the metaphors people use

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Speaker 2: to get these complex ideas across. And so Nick Viles

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Speaker 2: thing that men are not just driven by hookup culture.

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Speaker 2: Being the most beautiful woman on the planet is not

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Speaker 2: going to land you a husband. That, in my estimation,

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Speaker 2: is one my wife used created a term that I

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Speaker 2: still use in coaching to this day. Men look for

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Speaker 2: sex and find love.

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Speaker 1: Well, wait, there used to be a movie called Sex

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Speaker 1: lives and videotape. It was years ago. It was an

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Speaker 1: amazing movie and eighty nine right, and it was men.

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Speaker 1: I forgot this. This is amazing. Men learn to love

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Speaker 1: the women they're attracted too, and women learn to be

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Speaker 1: attracted to the men that they love.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and again it's more complicated than that, but that's

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Speaker 2: basically the right idea. So that's why when people reach

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Speaker 2: out for coaching, I don't spend any time. There's enough

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Speaker 2: out there on giving you beauty advice on your skin

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Speaker 2: and your hair and your lips and all that kind

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Speaker 2: of stuff. You don't need a mail dating coach to

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Speaker 2: tell you to do.

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Speaker 1: That.

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Speaker 2: Presentation is what's going to draw him in. But every

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Speaker 2: man has had the experience of breaking up with someone

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Speaker 2: who's beautiful because the relationship didn't work for him. Why

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Speaker 2: doesn't the relationship work for him generally because he doesn't

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Speaker 2: feel accepted, appreciated, or admired. Right, you could be the

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Speaker 2: most beautiful woman in the world, You could be a

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Speaker 2: top chef, supermodel, Rhodes scholar. But if he doesn't feel

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Speaker 2: accepted as he is, appreciated for what he does or

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Speaker 2: admired for what gifts he does, bring to the table.

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Speaker 2: He's probably not going to feel emotionally satisfied in the relationship, right, But.

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Speaker 1: What if he shouldn't be appreciated because he's not meeting you, or.

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Speaker 3: You shouldn't, then you shouldn't date it exactly.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so let's talk about that. So let's talk about

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Speaker 1: you with someone and they don't appreciate you or they're

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Speaker 1: not meeting I think it's really you know, and again

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Speaker 1: bring up someone else. I don't think it was her

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Speaker 1: original concept. With Kristin Cavalari, another podcaster, I heard a

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Speaker 1: clip she said, match their energy. And the truth is,

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Speaker 1: for me, it's more than just that, because that's like

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Speaker 1: a little quip. For me, it's meeting you where you're at,

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Speaker 1: meeting you halfway, which is why I bring it back

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Speaker 1: to business, like you know, when someone's meeting you halfway,

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Speaker 1: even if it's not perfect, even if it's my partner Michael,

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Speaker 1: that we kill each other. I know that even if

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Speaker 1: I'm doing it wrong or he's doing it wrong, that

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Speaker 1: he's meeting with me where I'm at, He's making the effort.

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Speaker 1: He's like trying to be a partner. And that's what

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Speaker 1: I think it's about. Not being perfect and not getting

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Speaker 1: it right the intention.

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Speaker 2: He's bought into the larger concept and that works in business.

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Speaker 2: That also works in marriage, right, like if you're keeping score,

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Speaker 2: you're already losing.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: And my second book, we talk about something called the

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Speaker 2: platinum rule. The golden rule is due onto others. The

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Speaker 2: platinum rule is do more right. Just just constantly give, give, give,

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Speaker 2: And if you find that you're giving and you're on

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Speaker 2: the losing end and you feel depleted because your efforts

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Speaker 2: are not being appreciated or reciprocated, well then you're in

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Speaker 2: a losing relationship that's straining your energy and you should

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Speaker 2: find a better partner, a better job than that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So say that's your job, that's your partner. So

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Speaker 1: now you decide that you care about the person, but

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Speaker 1: this is not going to work for you, okay. Because

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Speaker 1: I always think about the friend zone. The friend zone

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Speaker 1: is often a place that people go in they're dating,

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Speaker 1: But what about when people break up? So what I

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Speaker 1: mean is often there's a guy that likes a girl

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Speaker 1: and he's put into the friend zone. It's very difficult

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Speaker 1: to get out of there unless a woman is at

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Speaker 1: a low point for some post New Year's eve disaster

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Speaker 1: that happened, and then she goes to the consolation prize

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Speaker 1: safety school and that never works. That's the friend zone.

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Speaker 1: What about the friend zone post relationship? What about you

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Speaker 1: break up with someone you're not getting what you need,

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Speaker 1: but they want to have you in their lives and

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Speaker 1: put you in the friend zone. My opinion for those

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Speaker 1: people is it's kind of the cow in the milk.

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Speaker 1: I don't think you get any You don't get the

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Speaker 1: access pass for like just the cherry pick of what

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Speaker 1: you want, but now the rose and the pedals. You

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Speaker 1: got to do the work and get the bad and

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Speaker 1: the good. You're gonna have to tolerate the bad to

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Speaker 1: get to get the good. You don't get the friend

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Speaker 1: stuff alone. Do you agree with that?

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Speaker 3: Mac?

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Speaker 2: And I think you I've said since I've mentioned I

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Speaker 2: think you've got really really great instincts for this based

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Speaker 2: on your experience, and I just have, you know, language

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Speaker 2: that I've developed over the years to talk about that.

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Speaker 2: What you're talking about I called the emotional booty car.

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Speaker 2: Yeah right, I get all the benefits of having a partner,

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Speaker 2: just without the sexual betait I could be there for me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah right Again, I mean we've been there right where

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Speaker 2: someone breaks up with me in my early thirties and

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Speaker 2: I write her online dating profile. I want to show

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Speaker 2: her what a great guy I am. And I'm just

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Speaker 2: sitting there like a bitch, you know, like hoping she

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Speaker 2: realizes she made the biggest mistake of her life and

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Speaker 2: she's getting all the benefits of the boyfriend, right. And

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Speaker 2: that's what people do when they're feeling weak and needy.

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Speaker 2: And the truth is, if you're the CEO and you're

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Speaker 2: firing the in turn, the intern doesn't get to keep

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Speaker 2: on coming back to work.

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Speaker 1: Look at you. Yes, you need to have on my

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Speaker 1: new website that's coming out like a little section with

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Speaker 1: just these like little digestible bites. Yes, exactly. You fire

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Speaker 1: the intern. They don't get to come back to work,

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Speaker 1: even if if you fire your fucking number two or

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Speaker 1: your partner.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it doesn't mean you don't care about them

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Speaker 2: or wish them well, but they don't get to keep

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Speaker 2: on showing up at the office or expecting a half

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Speaker 2: of a paycheck. And that's what people do in relationships

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Speaker 2: because it's hard to cut the people.

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Speaker 1: They reach out to you. You can give them a referral.

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Speaker 1: You could talk to them, but you're not the day

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Speaker 1: to day person. You don't you don't blow them out

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Speaker 1: where they died, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: It's a huge loss, right it is. It's a loss.

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Speaker 2: It's a morning for people to process when you think

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Speaker 2: this is your person and then suddenly that person you

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Speaker 2: leaned on is no longer there. Both people are going

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Speaker 2: to miss that. But you need to have the courage

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Speaker 2: to say, I can't move on if I'm spending half

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Speaker 2: my time with my ex.

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Speaker 1: Right and I can't find a new person to fill

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Speaker 1: this position, if I'm still letting this person come in

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Speaker 1: and file two days a week exactly. Okay, So that's excellent.

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Speaker 1: I love your analogy. I think it works really well,

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Speaker 1: and I have to reinforce it because I forgot about it.

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Speaker 1: And it's very good for people. So that's excellent.

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Speaker 3: I don't want you to forget about your black cat.

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Speaker 1: Oh right, that's the woman who said black cat golden retriever.

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Speaker 1: She's a woman on TikTok and she's very probably on

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Speaker 1: Instagram too, and it does work. She'll show you people

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Speaker 1: and she'll say ebbs and flows and relationships too. At

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Speaker 1: one point, you're the black cat at one point, you're

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Speaker 1: the golden Retriever, etc.

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Speaker 2: I what I don't like about that is that it's

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Speaker 2: playing power dynamics. Yes, and it's a little bit nineteen

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Speaker 2: nineties rules base. I'm trying to manipulate him into So

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Speaker 2: go back, let's go back to work. You don't have

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Speaker 2: to put a gun to the interns head and say

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Speaker 2: show up for work. They show up early, stay late.

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Speaker 2: Why they're self motivated. They want the job. A guy

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Speaker 2: should be a golden retriever, but not because he's weak,

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Speaker 2: but because he desires the opportunity to be in your

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Speaker 2: company and claim you as a partner and as the CEO.

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Speaker 2: Your job is not to be the black cat. Your

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Speaker 2: job is to be like Google, how do I make

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Speaker 2: an environment? Hey, we're gonna have We're gonna give.

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Speaker 3: You free food. We're gonna give you massages and therapy.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna that's the King and Queen thing. You're making

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Speaker 1: them your king.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, How do we make if you are the woman CEO,

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Speaker 2: how do we make the intern incentivized to say this

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Speaker 2: is the best goddamn job I've ever had. The black

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Speaker 2: cat is not trying to do that. She's trying to

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Speaker 2: do this sort of dopamine hit give tape, walk away, and.

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Speaker 1: It's very It's a good point because you know, actually

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Speaker 1: this is an excellent point because having been in dynamics

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Speaker 1: like this, you get a high and then you get

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Speaker 1: a low. You get it's like a binge eating and

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Speaker 1: then beating yourself up about it. It's not a good feeling.

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Speaker 1: You get the reaction you want for the wrong rea,

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Speaker 1: like you ignore, you match the energy you do. Whatever

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Speaker 1: the gamification is. The person responds for the wrong reasons

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Speaker 1: because they're game. They don't even know they're playing a game,

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Speaker 1: but you're withdrawing. So they're telling you how great you are,

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Speaker 1: how beautiful you are, and they leaning in. But then

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Speaker 1: five seconds later the rubber bank goes right back and

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Speaker 1: they're who they were. And it's a very not satisfying

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Speaker 1: junk food binge purge model. So I agree.

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Speaker 2: So games which work in finger quotes, games work, but

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Speaker 2: they beget more games than that insanability. Yes, they're not pleasant, No,

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Speaker 2: they're not pleasant. If a guy got you like he's

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Speaker 2: your boyfriend, then make him feel like a million bucks.

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Speaker 1: No, But if you do make them feel like a

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Speaker 1: million bucks, and then he pulls back and withdraws because

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Speaker 1: of that dynamic. Some people it's the attachment disorder or

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Speaker 1: the avoidant disorder, and some people are needy and attach,

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Speaker 1: and then the minute that somebody who has avoidant feels

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Speaker 1: the attachment from the attached person, they then withdraw And

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Speaker 1: it feels like games, but it's psychological.

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Speaker 2: You're correct, ethony, But that brings me back to don't

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Speaker 2: date someone who's avoidant, period. Great, like if that's if

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Speaker 2: you being authentic and showing up and giving, Like, hey man,

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Speaker 2: you were gone on.

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Speaker 3: A business trip for a week. I sent a car

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Speaker 3: to the airport.

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Speaker 2: I made your favorite dinner when we got home, right,

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Speaker 2: I put on my cutest thing when we go back

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Speaker 2: to the bedroom.

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Speaker 3: And he's like, whoa, babe, this is a little much

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Speaker 3: for me.

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Speaker 2: Well, that you don't want that guy, That that's a

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Speaker 2: signal to run when you are emotionally available giving, and

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Speaker 2: that sense him running in the opposite direction. So fifty

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Speaker 2: percent of the population of men are secure can form

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Speaker 2: intimate attachments, and so it feels differently. It feels a

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Speaker 2: lot safer. There's a lot less games, there's a lot

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Speaker 2: less rollercoaster. You might even say sometimes it's boring, why

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Speaker 2: because he does exactly what he says he's going to do.

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Speaker 1: That's not meeting you where you're at. That's the same

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Speaker 1: thing I'm saying. That's not meeting you where you're at.

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Speaker 1: And I say, you're married to that person. And like,

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Speaker 1: I've heard many different examples from people's parents, to their

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Speaker 1: own relationships to even kids that are disconnected, Like they

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Speaker 1: don't really experience or explore emotions. They're sort of avoidant.

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Speaker 1: And I know someone who's in a very serious relationship

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Speaker 1: with someone that basically it took a while for them

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Speaker 1: to realize, you know, we never really get deep, we

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Speaker 1: don't really connect. I know someone who's married to someone

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Speaker 1: for twenty years that they don't feel that they've ever

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Speaker 1: really had deep conversations with. They've had loving experiences and

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Speaker 1: fun and kids and all this stuff, but they really

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Speaker 1: don't have deep connections. And you have to get deep

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Speaker 1: on your own and be deep to realize that avoidance.

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Speaker 1: And it's sort of like not having a satisfying meal

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Speaker 1: over the course of your lifetime. So let's say you're

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Speaker 1: in a relationship with someone who is avoidant and there

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Speaker 1: is a gamification in your relationship. You're married to them.

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Speaker 1: Can someone change if the if they have the threat

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Speaker 1: of losing you or the fear of losing you, can

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Speaker 1: a person who's like that actually change.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to be the person to declare how

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Speaker 2: the world works entirely. I have my theories. I don't think.

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Speaker 2: I don't think you could have a relationship dependent upon

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Speaker 2: someone changing for you. I would never bank on it,

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Speaker 2: of course already, right, That's what I'm saying. So people

404
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Speaker 2: changed by their own volition. You're look in the mirror

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Speaker 2: of New Year's Eve, I'm twenty five pounds overweight. Okay,

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Speaker 2: this is the year that I'm gonna that comes from within.

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Speaker 2: But Bob, We've been married for twenty five years. I

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Speaker 2: don't think I've ever had an intimate conversation with you.

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Speaker 3: Go I don't know. But what about Bob.

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Speaker 1: I'm leaving and then you leave for six weeks. Is

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Speaker 1: Bob gonna go change because or Bob can't change?

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Speaker 2: I think Bob is being by I don't think. I

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Speaker 2: don't think he knows what to do. I don't think

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Speaker 2: it's who he is. So much of this has formed

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Speaker 2: at a really young age. I'm going to share a

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Speaker 2: story of a client of mind shoes in her early seventies,

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Speaker 2: and she went through my coaching program and she exited

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Speaker 2: with a boyfriend. And this boyfriend was seventies wealthy. He's

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Speaker 2: got a place in Paris, he's got a yacht. He

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Speaker 2: dote about her. He was really, really nice to We

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Speaker 2: got nothing bad to say about this man. She didn't

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Speaker 2: feel connected to him for this reason. He was just

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Speaker 2: a guy who did well in life. He was a

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Speaker 2: nice person. He was a devoted boyfriend. But she didn't

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Speaker 2: actually have a connection.

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Speaker 1: She wouldn't go deep.

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Speaker 3: They just did stuff together.

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Speaker 1: They did like diction transactional.

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Speaker 2: But not even like the rich man beautiful woman transactional.

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Speaker 2: It was it was like, come and join my beautiful

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Speaker 2: life and we will have we will have everything. And

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Speaker 2: the thing she wanted was the emotional connection, and this.

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Speaker 1: Dude didn't have the bandwidth.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he just wasn't that guy. And she waited like

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Speaker 2: eight months for him to be that guy. But the

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00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,480
Speaker 2: truth is she knew this in the first six weeks

437
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,479
Speaker 2: of dating him. But the package was so was so

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Speaker 2: tempting that she's like, all right, let's just see if

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00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:49,120
Speaker 2: this develops.

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Speaker 1: Of course, and there are people that both parties are

441
00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,560
Speaker 1: very disconnected and from a very stoic background, and the

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Speaker 1: both of them stay married for thirty years because it's

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Speaker 1: just like, no one needs to move the needle that's

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Speaker 1: not of your deep person. You can't be with a

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Speaker 1: shallow person right after