Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, home of the
Speaker 1: modern white tail hunter, and now your host Mark Kenyon.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm your host
Speaker 1: Mark Kenyan and taying the show. We're discussing why, where,
Speaker 1: and how to plant native grass habitat. And joining me
Speaker 1: to discuss this is Pheasants Forever VP of Conservation Delivery
Speaker 1: Chris mc leland. All right, welcome to the Wired to
Speaker 1: Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light, and we're
Speaker 1: talking grass today, grass land habitat, grasses, forbes, pollinator habitat,
Speaker 1: all that good stuff. This is our last episode of
Speaker 1: our Habitat series. We've covered everything from southern whitetail habit
Speaker 1: improvement to how to get started if you're new to
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff. Last week we talked trees and
Speaker 1: today we're talking grass. And if you tune into our episode,
Speaker 1: like a month and a half ago or so, we
Speaker 1: spoke with another person from Pheasants and Forever, that was
Speaker 1: Bethany Herb and we were talking about kind of large
Speaker 1: scale grassland habitat issues, the importance of grass habitat, prairie habitat,
Speaker 1: grassland habitat across the country, and the fact that we've
Speaker 1: lost I think something like fifty three million acres of
Speaker 1: this ground in just a little over the last decade. Uh.
Speaker 1: This is tremendously important habitat for deer and birds, bugs,
Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff, and we're losing it. So in
Speaker 1: that episode back then, we discussed high level ideas for how,
Speaker 1: you know, we could work to advocate for new legislation
Speaker 1: that will hopefully get more grassland habitat on the ground.
Speaker 1: But today I want to talk about what we can
Speaker 1: do as individuals if we own land, if we have
Speaker 1: access to land where we have permission to improve the ground,
Speaker 1: what can we do to get grassland habitat out there?
Speaker 1: And why should we do that? You know, I think
Speaker 1: that I don't think. I know that doing that is
Speaker 1: not only gonna be good for the earth and the animals,
Speaker 1: but it's actually gonna be really good for your hunting too.
Speaker 1: So that's what we discussed today with Chris mcleland. Chris
Speaker 1: is the VP of Conservation Delivery for Pheasants Forever, so
Speaker 1: he does this thing for a career. His job is
Speaker 1: working with people to help get better habitat out there.
Speaker 1: But he's not just a pheasant guy. He actually has
Speaker 1: a long history as a deer hunter too, so he
Speaker 1: can speak to us from a white tailor's perspective on
Speaker 1: how this can actually help us with our deer, with
Speaker 1: our deer hunting, and with the good times we want
Speaker 1: to have out on our ground. And that's our plan. Today.
Speaker 1: We cover a lot about why this stuff matters. We
Speaker 1: cover a lot about how to make decisions around what
Speaker 1: to plant, where to planet, when to planet, how much
Speaker 1: should we plant, all that kind of stuff, and then
Speaker 1: we spend a good amount of time then discussing how
Speaker 1: to actually do it. You know, do you need a
Speaker 1: broadcaster or a cedar or a drill? You know, do
Speaker 1: you need to spray? Do you need to burn? How
Speaker 1: to do all those different things We covered all today.
Speaker 1: So if you've ever wanted to put something in your ground,
Speaker 1: something like CRP type habitat that you see, you know
Speaker 1: on TV that looks so great and you see these
Speaker 1: antlers rise out of the grass and come walking over
Speaker 1: the hill, you know that that dream scenario. If you've
Speaker 1: ever wanted to live that yourself, you want to listen
Speaker 1: today's episode as well. So I think, without any further ado,
Speaker 1: let's get into this chat with Chris mc leland. All right,
Speaker 1: I am here now with Chris McK leland. Chris, welcome
Speaker 1: to the show. Hey, thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 1: Excited to be here. Yeah, I'm excited too. I'm excited
Speaker 1: to have you. This is gonna be no pressure, but
Speaker 1: this is the the finale of our Habitat series. Month.
Speaker 1: We've we've covered I think this is our fifth week
Speaker 1: of episodes and we're ending with this one. So we
Speaker 1: gotta end on a high note. All right, Chris, can
Speaker 1: you do that for me? I got Hey, I got
Speaker 1: you covered. I'll do my I'll do my absolute best.
Speaker 1: No pressure, exactly right. I got you covered though. Well.
Speaker 1: Speaking of pressure, though, I gotta ask you this to
Speaker 1: kick things off. Your title at PF is VP of
Speaker 1: Conservation Delivery. At least that's the latest title I've seen
Speaker 1: for you. Is that first off? Is that accurate? VP
Speaker 1: of Conservation Delivery? Yeah, that's that's that's accurate. I've been
Speaker 1: in I've been in this role for it'll be a
Speaker 1: year in July, so it's a new kind of a
Speaker 1: new position within the organization. And uh, that's uh, that's
Speaker 1: the seat that I sit in. Okay, So the vice
Speaker 1: President of Conservation Delivery. That sounds really really importantly. It
Speaker 1: almost sounds like you, yourself alone, are responsible for the
Speaker 1: entirety of what Pheasants Forever is about, because the Pheasants
Speaker 1: Forever is conservation and you're in charge of delivering conservation.
Speaker 1: A do you feel that pressure and be what does
Speaker 1: that mean? What do you actually do? Chris? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: appreciate that. To answer your question, yes, I do. I
Speaker 1: do feel that pressure. But thankfully it's uh, it's I
Speaker 1: have an incredible team UM out there across the country
Speaker 1: that are that are are doing the real heavy heavy lift.
Speaker 1: And UM, you know, really what my role here is
Speaker 1: is UM within Pheasants Forever Quell Forever, is is to
Speaker 1: put habitat on the ground. Uh, you know, no if
Speaker 1: and ors or, but that's what that's what we're about. UM.
Speaker 1: We strive to be a force multiplier for conservation across
Speaker 1: the country, UM, public lands, private lands, working with a
Speaker 1: just a diversity of state and federal partners. And my
Speaker 1: my role is really too make sure that our field
Speaker 1: biologists and our our state and regional leadership across the
Speaker 1: country they have what they need UM to do their
Speaker 1: job to the best of their abilities and put as
Speaker 1: much habitat on the ground and and service those partners
Speaker 1: and landours we work with to the best of their ability.
Speaker 1: So um, my job is to to make sure our
Speaker 1: team has the tools they need and then just get
Speaker 1: out of the way and let them do what they
Speaker 1: do best. So there's pressure in that only because I uh,
Speaker 1: I've got such incredible staff and and we have such
Speaker 1: incredible biologists here that um, you know, I never want
Speaker 1: to be the bottleneck or the pinch point or have
Speaker 1: anybody waiting on me. So um, as far as getting
Speaker 1: good work done and putting high quality habitat on the
Speaker 1: ground I have, I'm just so proud of our team
Speaker 1: and and and just him thankful to work alongside them.
Speaker 1: But but yeah, this, this position, this role is um
Speaker 1: is never dull, and I really like that, so um
Speaker 1: so yeah, it's it's pretty pretty rewarding. So so you know,
Speaker 1: obviously our audiences is mostly white tail focused, so there
Speaker 1: might be a decent chunk of people listening that don't
Speaker 1: really have a clear idea of how Pheasants Forever and
Speaker 1: Quail Forever works. Can you give us a little more
Speaker 1: clarity on exactly, like, how does PF put habitat on
Speaker 1: the ground. As you said, like, what what does that
Speaker 1: actually mean an action? How do you guys make those
Speaker 1: things happen? Yeah, it's a great question. It's it's been
Speaker 1: an evolution to be honest with you, and we're kind
Speaker 1: of UM, you know, continue into to ride to ride
Speaker 1: that way. You know. Organizations started in UM. You know,
Speaker 1: we're grassroots, volunteer based five oh one C three UM
Speaker 1: Conservation not for profit UM. And we started very similarly
Speaker 1: to M you know, we have a very similar story
Speaker 1: too many conservation NGOs. Our organizations UM was started in
Speaker 1: a basement UM and and really grew, UM, you know,
Speaker 1: grew from there and for many, many many years, the
Speaker 1: way that Pheasants Forever and Quail Forever delivered its mission
Speaker 1: to put a cat on the ground was through our volunteers.
Speaker 1: There are you know, men and women you know, giving
Speaker 1: their time to go out and turn the dirt and
Speaker 1: UH put a wildlife have a tat on the ground.
Speaker 1: Primarily on public lands at that time, UM, some private
Speaker 1: land projects. But as our organization grew and our our
Speaker 1: volunteer base grew, UM, we started UH just asking some
Speaker 1: tough questions. So how can we do this, How can
Speaker 1: we do this better? How can we impact the landscape
Speaker 1: and and as UH you know, a beneficial and positive
Speaker 1: way to the fullest extent. Again being a forced multiplier
Speaker 1: for all the good things going on out there, how
Speaker 1: can we help lift that boat a little higher? And
Speaker 1: in two thousand and four we had the opportunity to
Speaker 1: partner UM to put the first private land biologists through
Speaker 1: Pheasants Forever, Quill Forever on the Ground and and UM.
Speaker 1: And since that time that program has has continued to
Speaker 1: grow along side our chapter volunteers. UH, we have UH
Speaker 1: an army of men and women out there UM that
Speaker 1: are working one on one with landowners providing conservation technical
Speaker 1: assistance on on any private land habitat project they have,
Speaker 1: you know, peasants and quail. That's great, But we do
Speaker 1: so much habitat work for UM. You know, where the
Speaker 1: objective is white tails or it's wild turkey or it's waterfowl.
Speaker 1: You know, we don't we don't you know. We we
Speaker 1: we go where the landowner goes, and so we want
Speaker 1: to help them achieve their objective. And so we have UM.
Speaker 1: We have an entire workforce of of AS our CEO
Speaker 1: refers to them as as fire eaters. You know, men
Speaker 1: and women out there just eager and hungry to put
Speaker 1: habitat on the ground. And uh and UM, you know,
Speaker 1: we've we've partnered with you know, as I mentioned, state
Speaker 1: and federal organizations to help make those things happen our
Speaker 1: chapters as well. UM and uh we've kind of expanded
Speaker 1: now into the public um public land phase of this.
Speaker 1: So now we have we're starting to grow an arm
Speaker 1: of our organization that's providing boots on the ground on
Speaker 1: those w M A s UM to help resource managers
Speaker 1: do a little more there and fill some holes and
Speaker 1: um and also provide additional public access. We have staff
Speaker 1: out there across the country that are working to create
Speaker 1: more public land for folks to uh, to enjoy and
Speaker 1: recreate on. So so it's been an evolution, I mean,
Speaker 1: it really has been. And and but we you know,
Speaker 1: the way we get work done is is not by ourselves.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's the biggest take home as
Speaker 1: it takes willing partners, willing volunteers, willing landowners and and
Speaker 1: we're there's genuine interest and desire to do good things
Speaker 1: for wildlife. We're gonna be there and do everything we
Speaker 1: can to make it happen for him. So, UM, it's
Speaker 1: a blessing to be here, and we're very thankful and
Speaker 1: fortunate to you know, have made it this far. Sure,
Speaker 1: that's awesome. Uh it sounds like a lot of work though,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of moving pieces. You put it in
Speaker 1: a lot of years doing this. Uh, I'm sure investing
Speaker 1: a ton of time and energy and blood and sweat
Speaker 1: and tears, all those cliche things. Right. Uh yeah, why
Speaker 1: do you do it? Why? Why did you choose to
Speaker 1: make a career and a life revolved around conservation. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a that's a good question. I So I'm from
Speaker 1: central Missouri, grew up in a really rural community, great community, UM,
Speaker 1: agricultural community. Um, most of my family is still there,
Speaker 1: and and uh, you know, it was just one of
Speaker 1: those things where you know, I loved I loved you know,
Speaker 1: being in a rural landscape. I grew up hunting and
Speaker 1: fishing with my grandfather's and my dad and my uncle's
Speaker 1: and you know, I just, for whatever reason, just developed
Speaker 1: a passion to be outside. You know this, this majesty, Um,
Speaker 1: you know that there's still can be unknowns out there.
Speaker 1: You know that there's still wild things, um out there
Speaker 1: just always you know, appealed to me. And it was
Speaker 1: something that just was a calling for me. And and
Speaker 1: I've never it's a very hard, uh feel too to
Speaker 1: stick with because it it can be it can be challenging,
Speaker 1: but um, there was never an alternative for me. I
Speaker 1: wanted to to make a difference, um and and make
Speaker 1: sure that you know, there was healthy landscapes and and
Speaker 1: plenty of wildlife out there on those landscapes, and and um,
Speaker 1: you know, I was gonna make this work one way
Speaker 1: or the other. And it's definitely been hard, um at times,
Speaker 1: but it's been the most rewarding thing I think I
Speaker 1: could have ever been involved with. And I'm just very
Speaker 1: thankful to have found my way to to the seat
Speaker 1: that I'm in today. And um and you know, even
Speaker 1: on the artist days, there's still there's still some so
Speaker 1: many positives to be thankful for and so um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I just can't imagine doing anything else, honestly, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: love that. So what about what about on the actual
Speaker 1: land work side. You know, I I see that you've
Speaker 1: got a family property where you're doing work on your
Speaker 1: own land, and you know, improving, improving the ground yourself
Speaker 1: and all that kind of stuff. I'm sure that is
Speaker 1: helping you with your hunting goals, right, but but but
Speaker 1: why do you do that? What is it about actually
Speaker 1: work in the ground yourself and trying to make that
Speaker 1: place specifically better? What's what is it about that? Because
Speaker 1: this whole you know, last month we've been talking about
Speaker 1: it's been you know, diving into a should you you know,
Speaker 1: should you try to improve the habitat that you have
Speaker 1: influence over and then how to do it? But I'm
Speaker 1: curious for you, like why, what's your pitch for why
Speaker 1: or what it is? What is it for you? Yeah? Yeah, absolutely, Well,
Speaker 1: for one thing, it's um, you know it. It's like anything,
Speaker 1: you know it nothing stays the same. You know when
Speaker 1: one of the first things you learned UM, you know
Speaker 1: when you're when you're in you know you can chasing
Speaker 1: this this career is UM the term succession. What that
Speaker 1: simply means is, you know, as the clock ticks things
Speaker 1: things change. And so when you think about you know,
Speaker 1: your property and you think about habitat and the quality
Speaker 1: of habitat, UM. You know, if you don't stay active
Speaker 1: and in the wildlife habitat world, disturbance is a good thing.
Speaker 1: You want. You want disturbance because that's constantly setting succession back.
Speaker 1: And generally what that equates to is is it increases
Speaker 1: the quality of the habitat that you have. And so
Speaker 1: you know, from from simply a recreational habitat standpoint, you know,
Speaker 1: I want to ensure that I have the highest quality habitats,
Speaker 1: you know, for for the species I'm interested in on
Speaker 1: my property as possible. In order to do that, I
Speaker 1: gotta get I gotta get active. And um, one of
Speaker 1: the most common I guess misconceptions that many have is,
Speaker 1: UM that you can overdo it. And you certainly can.
Speaker 1: But most of the time, you know, you're you're not
Speaker 1: going to be as active as you probably should be
Speaker 1: with your management right out of the gate, because it's
Speaker 1: just gonna seem like it's a it's a bit too much.
Speaker 1: But you know, so for for those reasons, I just
Speaker 1: want to ensure that I have the highest quality habitat
Speaker 1: that I that I can have on my property. I also,
Speaker 1: you know that for me personally, there's a legacy component
Speaker 1: to it. You know, I like to I like to
Speaker 1: know that, UM, you know that this property whenever I
Speaker 1: whenever I leave, whenever that may be, is is better
Speaker 1: than it was when I acquired it. And you know,
Speaker 1: and and you start as you get out and you
Speaker 1: start turning the dirt, you start putting a little fire
Speaker 1: on the landscape, and you start seeing these changes. I
Speaker 1: think naturally there's this desire to want to learn more
Speaker 1: about what you're seeing. And I've seen that so many
Speaker 1: times with landowners I've been privileged to work with over
Speaker 1: the years. Is you know, you talk about what you
Speaker 1: could expect to see if they do practice A, B
Speaker 1: and C. And if they do that and they see
Speaker 1: those changes that you sort of predicted, there's always this
Speaker 1: They become very inquisitive. Okay, now what's this flower or
Speaker 1: what you know? Why did that happen here? But we've
Speaker 1: got a different response over here. And then the more
Speaker 1: they learn and the more you know, exciting, they get excited,
Speaker 1: they get um the more that passion for you know,
Speaker 1: not just that the animal that they're chasing, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's the land itself. You know, it's the it's
Speaker 1: the ecology that's going behind it, that's driving the bus
Speaker 1: behind it. That it starts really lighting the fire there,
Speaker 1: and and and that fire has been burning bright for
Speaker 1: me for a really long time, and so, um, you
Speaker 1: know that's that's kind of that's kind of why I
Speaker 1: get to do it, and um, you know, it helps
Speaker 1: make me feel connected to what I'm trying to accomplish. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, as you were just describing that, it made
Speaker 1: me think of an analogy that I think helps describe
Speaker 1: something I've tried saying in the past, which is, you know,
Speaker 1: once I started working on habitat projects myself, kind of
Speaker 1: like you, you start seeing so much more around it.
Speaker 1: You start connecting to the landscape in so many different ways,
Speaker 1: and it like opens your eyes to a whole world
Speaker 1: that was around you you just never really realized it. Um.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like, and I don't I think you
Speaker 1: do some fishing, it's kind of like putting on polarized sunglasses.
Speaker 1: If you don't have those polarized glasses and you look
Speaker 1: at the water, you just see glass reflecting up at you, right,
Speaker 1: But you throw those polaroids on, all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you can see the fish, you can see the rocks,
Speaker 1: you can see the algae, you can see the wood,
Speaker 1: you can see everything underneath the surface. And I feel
Speaker 1: like as soon as you start working with the land,
Speaker 1: it's the same kind of thing. It's not no longer
Speaker 1: am I just passing through the woods trying to find
Speaker 1: a deer. I am passing through a landscape, which I'm
Speaker 1: seeing all these different moving pieces and parts. Now that
Speaker 1: I that I get, that, I that I understand to
Speaker 1: some degree that I just never would have before. That's
Speaker 1: a that's an incredible analogy. I'm gonna to feel that one.
Speaker 1: That's that's that's that's a really good one. I It's
Speaker 1: exactly right, you know, and you you just have much
Speaker 1: more depth and perspective to um, you know, to to
Speaker 1: what you're trying to accomplish, you know, and UM and
Speaker 1: what it helps you understand at times, and we're talking
Speaker 1: about diversity and habitat structure, and it it gives anyone
Speaker 1: the understanding that whether they have forty acres or four hundreds, UM,
Speaker 1: there's always more that can be done. And you can
Speaker 1: also make an incredible impact, um, you know on your forty,
Speaker 1: just like you can on your four hundred. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it is, um, you know, it's just a matter
Speaker 1: of understanding what's going on and understanding what the limiting
Speaker 1: factors are. Um, you know, the healthier that that property is,
Speaker 1: that landscape is, UM, the more diverse it is, you know,
Speaker 1: the more wildlife you're gonna have, and UM, you know,
Speaker 1: all creators, but definitely a species you're looking for to um.
Speaker 1: You know. So it's it's just a better deeper perspective
Speaker 1: and and uh you know that's that's sort of the
Speaker 1: end goal. Yeah, all right, so let's let's talk about
Speaker 1: then how we do it. You've got me sold on
Speaker 1: the fact that I should keep doing it, but let's
Speaker 1: talk about how to do it now. You Chris have
Speaker 1: been drafted as the grass guy. Okay, because you know
Speaker 1: when we talk, when we talk white tail habitat, a
Speaker 1: lot of the time, like food plots get a ton
Speaker 1: of press. They're very sexy. Everybody wants to talk about
Speaker 1: food plots. If I were to go down the line
Speaker 1: a little bit more, maybe we're going to talk about,
Speaker 1: you know, chain cell work. People get pretty excited about
Speaker 1: cutting trees or planting trees. To right. We just last
Speaker 1: week talked with some folks about plant ning trees, you know,
Speaker 1: putting trees in the ground, getting apples out there, all
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff that seems pretty obvious. Um, something
Speaker 1: that doesn't get a ton of play. It's been talked
Speaker 1: about more, but still nothing like food plots or timber management.
Speaker 1: Is grassland type habitat. If we were in an elevator, Chris,
Speaker 1: and you had like thirty seconds or a minute to
Speaker 1: pitch me on why a white tail hunter should be
Speaker 1: thinking about grasses and forbes and that kind of early
Speaker 1: successional grassland type habitat, why they should put that on
Speaker 1: their property. Pitch me on what your what your angle
Speaker 1: would be. Convince me absolutely well. To me, it's it's
Speaker 1: about usable habitat. So if I look out my window
Speaker 1: right here in my office right now, Um, I'm looking
Speaker 1: at and I worked, I'm working out of my house.
Speaker 1: So I'm looking at my yard. And I've got a
Speaker 1: all about a quarter acre yard that I maintained, and
Speaker 1: it's it's short, and it's a lot of screen. It
Speaker 1: looks good. But beyond that, I've got eighty acres of
Speaker 1: native warm season grass. And if you look at the
Speaker 1: structural differences, and you look at that the heights and
Speaker 1: the density and the diversity in those natives as opposed
Speaker 1: to what I'm maintaining in my yard doesn't take heart,
Speaker 1: doesn't take long to see that's had eighty acres of
Speaker 1: of tall, lush native prairie is much more usable at
Speaker 1: many more times of the year than you know, say,
Speaker 1: say my yard. So for me, it all boils down
Speaker 1: to that. It's from a white tail standpoint, I'm looking
Speaker 1: for a cover uh in the winter. I'm looking for
Speaker 1: um uh fawning cover in the spring. I'm looking for
Speaker 1: forage diversity which these grasses can provide at different times
Speaker 1: of the year. And I'm looking to create more usable
Speaker 1: space um all my property. You know, I live in
Speaker 1: central Missouri. You know we're blessed with some some great
Speaker 1: some great timber tracks. But you know, the landscapes open
Speaker 1: in a lot of cases as well. And so when
Speaker 1: you put that grass on that landscape, you know, if
Speaker 1: you don't have um, you know, a forest or a
Speaker 1: woodlot nearby, and you've got native grass on the landscape,
Speaker 1: you still have incredible diversity and structure, and you're gonna
Speaker 1: have white tails and all kinds of other wildlife using
Speaker 1: those um you know, using that habitat, using those acres,
Speaker 1: whereas um if it wasn't there, you know, it would
Speaker 1: be it would be much less. So so yeah, you
Speaker 1: know you're improving the habitat quality by adding these natives,
Speaker 1: but you're also creating usable space, um in huntable space
Speaker 1: as well. So um, it's a benefit in in many
Speaker 1: many ways to incorporate natives, uh where and when you can,
Speaker 1: um and uh it's one of those things to me. Um,
Speaker 1: I've never met a white tail hunter that that has
Speaker 1: installed native grasses that have and disappointed by the use
Speaker 1: and and and how much deer, how much deer are
Speaker 1: attracted to those habitat types for sure. So UM, you know,
Speaker 1: I I think there are a positive in many many ways.
Speaker 1: So I want to run a I guess a hypothesis
Speaker 1: by you. It's a little bit of the theory, I guess.
Speaker 1: So I anywhere I've ever hunted deer, you know, let's
Speaker 1: let's say like the Great Plain States don't come, so
Speaker 1: we're gonna stay, Like in an area that's not all grasslands,
Speaker 1: So in an area that's mostly timber, an egg or
Speaker 1: some mixture or interface of those two things. Anywhere I've
Speaker 1: hunted like that, where I find a patch that does
Speaker 1: have grassland type habitat, Let's say one field got put
Speaker 1: into CRP or there is a CRP in this property
Speaker 1: on this side and there's a regular agg and timber
Speaker 1: on the other. Every time I go into an area
Speaker 1: like that that has some kind of grassy component like that,
Speaker 1: that grassy area is the hub of activity almost always.
Speaker 1: That is like the hot spot for stuff coming in
Speaker 1: and out. And I mean I always gravitate towards those locations.
Speaker 1: Is that just me? Or is that happening? No, it's
Speaker 1: it's to me. I that those have been my experiences,
Speaker 1: and UM, it's you know, for lots of reasons. You know,
Speaker 1: I have a on on my property. I have actually
Speaker 1: a what we were referred to as a remnant prairie
Speaker 1: UM on it. So it was it's full of natives.
Speaker 1: But I didn't I didn't see anything originally. UM, it
Speaker 1: was just there. And so through a little bit of
Speaker 1: management and prescribed fire and UM, I did do some
Speaker 1: interceeding later on, but it was it was always great
Speaker 1: white tail hunting. And UM, you know, they feel they
Speaker 1: feel protected because they can get in there. It's tall. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, they can they can get the wind in
Speaker 1: their favor. So UM, you know, for lots of reasons
Speaker 1: they can. You know, they just feel protected. Um, it's
Speaker 1: an opportunity for them to um. Uh like I said,
Speaker 1: for him, you know, for the for fawning, it's uh,
Speaker 1: you know, same reasons. It's just one of those areas
Speaker 1: that they they'll key in on. Um. But when I'm hunting,
Speaker 1: you can bet I'm gonna be looking on the map
Speaker 1: to see, okay, where you know, where is the prairie
Speaker 1: the natives, whether it's you know, remnant or CRP or
Speaker 1: whatever it might be, you know where's the grass and
Speaker 1: where's the way in and out? And I'm keying in
Speaker 1: on that and uh, because i know at some point
Speaker 1: in time they're gonna be there. Um. And I can
Speaker 1: tell you just on my place, a little bit of
Speaker 1: TLC and that remnant prairie, getting that's kind of whip
Speaker 1: back up into shape. Um made a world of difference
Speaker 1: on the number of deer. Uh in the quality of
Speaker 1: dear that I started seeing just within a year. Um,
Speaker 1: and and the uses is only increased. And uh. One
Speaker 1: of my favorite things to do actually in the spring
Speaker 1: is when we we burn a third of that old
Speaker 1: a year. And uh, you know, there's nothing cooler than
Speaker 1: seeing a set of sheds glowing right after you right
Speaker 1: a fire through there, it's pretty it's pretty cool. And
Speaker 1: uh so yeah, they they're they're definitely a dear magnet. Now,
Speaker 1: what about stuff outside the deer? I mean you come
Speaker 1: from PF and QF. I mean obviously grassland type habitat
Speaker 1: is great for pheasants or other upland birds. But what
Speaker 1: what other types of wildlife and animal life or bug
Speaker 1: life do these habitats support? Yeah? Absolutely, so you know,
Speaker 1: if you think about you know, the the United States,
Speaker 1: we had uh millions and millions of acres of native prairie,
Speaker 1: so uh many many many species adapted to live on
Speaker 1: these landscapes and then these environments so um, you know,
Speaker 1: multiples many species of grassland birds UM outside of bob
Speaker 1: white quail UM that utilize these habitats that you know
Speaker 1: either are ground nesting or UM or uh you will
Speaker 1: nest in shrub shrub habitat adjacent to these grasslands UM.
Speaker 1: And native pollinators you know, far too many to name
Speaker 1: the uh the forbes of wildflowers that generally accompany these
Speaker 1: landscapes UM and are in these restorations, are are necessary
Speaker 1: hosts and forge sources for for the pollinators that we
Speaker 1: need Uh, to keep the diversity moving across uh, not
Speaker 1: just the country, but the world and um and so
Speaker 1: you you name it. I mean these there isn't hardly
Speaker 1: a specie in in you know, the northern grade plains
Speaker 1: of the central part of the country that isn't adapted um,
Speaker 1: you know, to survive or needs you know, native grasses
Speaker 1: and some form or fashion and so. Um they're critically important, um,
Speaker 1: you know, for for sex and and wildlife species alike.
Speaker 1: Here's one more fancy term, I guess I want you
Speaker 1: to break down for me to help us understand. You
Speaker 1: hear about ecosystem services. So not only does a grassy
Speaker 1: landscape like this support a lot of birds and bugs
Speaker 1: and animals, but it does other good stuff for the
Speaker 1: land to write. Um, can you talk to me a
Speaker 1: little bit about what that looks like in the case
Speaker 1: of grass, because last week we talked about the ecosystems
Speaker 1: services of trees. Uh what what how to grass is
Speaker 1: stack up? Oh? Yeah, so it's it's kind of it's
Speaker 1: nothing short of amazing really when you when you get
Speaker 1: into it. So, UM, if you take your typical let's
Speaker 1: say you're you know, the grass us in my yard
Speaker 1: out back here. So you know, I'm looking at I'm
Speaker 1: looking at fescue, I'm looking at um um, a little
Speaker 1: bit of clover, but by and large those grasses are
Speaker 1: very shallow rooted. Okay, so you're talking. You can take
Speaker 1: your scoop shovel, put in the ground, flip clump a
Speaker 1: fescue over, and you're gonna have the majority of the
Speaker 1: root mass is gonna be right there, just under the surface.
Speaker 1: And you know, it's pretty sod forming, which is if
Speaker 1: you think about it's a little bit like a carpet.
Speaker 1: When you know, a three inch rain comes in Missouri,
Speaker 1: comes through here, what happens is is it hits that
Speaker 1: fescue sod and most of that water runs off and
Speaker 1: where does that go. Well, even it will find its
Speaker 1: way to the nearest stream. That stream will find its
Speaker 1: way to the next stream, and a lot of that
Speaker 1: water that typically would infiltrate into the ground UH sheds
Speaker 1: and runs off that does not happen uh in a
Speaker 1: native restorations or on remnant native prairie. Native warm season
Speaker 1: grasses and forbes are so deeply rooted that most of
Speaker 1: the water when a three inch rain comes and and
Speaker 1: it hits the ground goes into the ground and so
Speaker 1: it's reabsorbed where it's supposed to go. UM. That's one
Speaker 1: of the primary reasons why you know, it's highly recommended
Speaker 1: that you know, these natives are planted in in areas
Speaker 1: where you know, like on CRP, where maybe it's a
Speaker 1: little bit more erotable, UM, maybe there is some more
Speaker 1: water um erosion concerns. These these species can can withstand
Speaker 1: that and can can protect that soil, can armor that
Speaker 1: soil and helping sure that that water goes into the
Speaker 1: ground and doesn't shed off and UM. And likewise, just
Speaker 1: carbon sequestration, you know, warm season grasses, Native prairie do
Speaker 1: an ex exceptional job of capturing and storing carbon and
Speaker 1: so UM. You know, the and I'm sure in the
Speaker 1: next you know, two years, five years, ten years, we're
Speaker 1: going to continue to learn more and more about all
Speaker 1: the other services that they provide. But uh, you know,
Speaker 1: when it comes to protecting the soil, increasing water infiltration,
Speaker 1: storing carbon um. You know, the list goes on these
Speaker 1: you know, Native prairie just continues to impress and never
Speaker 1: disappoints in that in that fashion, so it's good for
Speaker 1: the land, it's good for the air. It's good for
Speaker 1: the water, it's good for our deer hunting, it's good
Speaker 1: for any other kind of honey who want to do. Uh,
Speaker 1: it sounds like we should put grasses in the ground
Speaker 1: or help keep them healthy if they're already there. My
Speaker 1: question then to you is is how can we as
Speaker 1: landowners and hunters think about you know, grass type habitat
Speaker 1: being a part of the larger picture. Let's let's just say,
Speaker 1: maybe we'll try to create the generic hypothetical property that
Speaker 1: most people have to work with. They've got, you know,
Speaker 1: a small piece of g own we'll say, a lesson
Speaker 1: hundred acres or somewhere in that ballpark, and it has
Speaker 1: a mixture of some kind of timber type cover and
Speaker 1: then some kind of openings maybe their farm fields or
Speaker 1: old farm fields or pasture something like that. So that's
Speaker 1: a mixture of those two things. Um, how would you
Speaker 1: recommend we think about adding grass as a part of
Speaker 1: that component? Um? You know, right to my mind, I'm thinking, well,
Speaker 1: maybe I would if I want to get better betting
Speaker 1: on the cover, that'd be an obvious way and make
Speaker 1: some kind of grassy area for that. Or maybe I
Speaker 1: would plant strips of grass to act as screening cover
Speaker 1: to block off areas and stuff like that. Um, but
Speaker 1: in your mind, what are what are the some of
Speaker 1: the ideas that you've either done yourself or you've seen
Speaker 1: other people, or how should we think about like how
Speaker 1: this is a part of the mix. Yeah, that's great,
Speaker 1: that's a great question. This is really where the river
Speaker 1: meets the road. And and honestly, when you're working with
Speaker 1: private landowners, the fun really starts, um. You know. And
Speaker 1: and I was gonna make a comment earlier. You know,
Speaker 1: I mentioned c RP a lot of times. Uh, you'll
Speaker 1: hear that. You know, CRP referred to is a way
Speaker 1: to refer to native graphses, even if it's not a
Speaker 1: clinics of things. That's right, and there's nothing wrong with
Speaker 1: that at all. But but the reason I wanted to
Speaker 1: bring that up is, you know, as it relates to
Speaker 1: you know, a landowner getting assistance to do work like
Speaker 1: this there no matter what states you live in. Um,
Speaker 1: there's a number of opportunities for you know, financial assistance,
Speaker 1: definitely technical assistance to help you get a management plan
Speaker 1: and get the step by step instructions and the guidance
Speaker 1: on you know, how best to do this work and
Speaker 1: install these practices and um, but it all starts with
Speaker 1: an idea and and that starts with a conversation. And
Speaker 1: so in my mind, you know, the scenario you laid out,
Speaker 1: it kind of makes a difference on if it's an
Speaker 1: agricultural if if the fields that you have available to
Speaker 1: your act fields or if they're old pasture. That kind
Speaker 1: of to me it it it's sort of there's a
Speaker 1: decision tree there. So if it's if it's agriculture, you know,
Speaker 1: old food plots or something that you're looking to maybe
Speaker 1: put some warm season grass into. Um, my immediate thought is,
Speaker 1: and what I've had a lot of success within the
Speaker 1: past is Okay, let's take a look at the field borders.
Speaker 1: You know, do we want to do we want to um,
Speaker 1: you know installed native grasses and a percent of those
Speaker 1: acres or you know, should we maintain some of those
Speaker 1: acres and and border those fields. Now, keep in mind
Speaker 1: that a lot of wildlife, you know, white tails included,
Speaker 1: really like edge, so their edge species. So the more
Speaker 1: edge you can create, especially alongside uh, you know block September,
Speaker 1: they tend to you know, be utilized more. Not to
Speaker 1: buy just white tails, but bob white quail or you know,
Speaker 1: bring next pheasants whatever may be, UM, because they feel safer.
Speaker 1: You know, they can hop out into that food plot
Speaker 1: or into that agg field at any point along that edge,
Speaker 1: and then you know, the first sign of danger, they
Speaker 1: can hop back in and be be gone. So I
Speaker 1: look at that, how can I create and increase my
Speaker 1: edge um in more of an agg land setting. And
Speaker 1: in many in many cases you know there are little
Speaker 1: pockets and things like that. We may go ahead and consider,
Speaker 1: you know, squaring those fields off a bit and filling
Speaker 1: those pockets in with native grass. UM. But that's how
Speaker 1: I kind of take a look at that, uh scenario.
Speaker 1: If it's old field and we're gonna be converting um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's say an old pasture to two natives to take
Speaker 1: a similar approach, but I'm likely a little more heavy handed.
Speaker 1: I always like to err on the side or on
Speaker 1: the side of more grass is better because the more
Speaker 1: grass you have, as I mentioned earlier, you're increasing the
Speaker 1: usable space um, and you're increasing the amount of habitat
Speaker 1: you have on overall on the property. So I want
Speaker 1: to err on the side of of of more is better, uh. There,
Speaker 1: And and also you kind of get an opportunity to
Speaker 1: take a look at how you you know, especially in
Speaker 1: a scenario where you might have old field or or
Speaker 1: a field next to next September. Okay, how can we
Speaker 1: create some advantageous um food plot scenarios where we can
Speaker 1: we can lay this native grass out um in a
Speaker 1: way that's beneficial for you and and create some opportunities
Speaker 1: for some some killed plots or things like that, and
Speaker 1: so um. You know. Again that's that's the fun part
Speaker 1: where you kind of get to look at the map
Speaker 1: and you get your ideas out and and um and
Speaker 1: work with those landowners too to be ultimately land on
Speaker 1: something that they really like and and and go and
Speaker 1: go that direction. But to take home here is um,
Speaker 1: there's a thousand you know, no matter what the scenario is,
Speaker 1: there's multiple options that that you can look at and
Speaker 1: all of them will be beneficial. Yeah, all right, let's
Speaker 1: let's uh, let's do some like hypotheticals. Then I'm curious
Speaker 1: what your thoughts would be on some specifics. Let's say,
Speaker 1: you know, we've got I don't know our property is
Speaker 1: this kind of mixture, and I don't have any crops
Speaker 1: on my property. But it's in an agricultural type area,
Speaker 1: so there are you know, corn and beans and stuff
Speaker 1: in the general region. I've got timber, and I've got
Speaker 1: what used to be farm fields, but the owner stopped,
Speaker 1: you know, the previous landowners stopped farming a year ago.
Speaker 1: So they're starting to go um, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: weeds and stuff are growing up in them whatnot. And
Speaker 1: I've got a decision to make. I need to decide, well,
Speaker 1: do I want to put food on the ground. Do
Speaker 1: I want to put food plots in with my you know,
Speaker 1: my openings here I've got I don't know, let's just
Speaker 1: say forty acres and a third of it or sorry,
Speaker 1: a quarter of it is open. So we've got, you know,
Speaker 1: thirty acres of timber and ten acres of openings. And
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, all right, everyone plants really sexy green clover
Speaker 1: food plots, and big giant bucks come walking into them
Speaker 1: and they stand there and just wait for you to
Speaker 1: shoot them. That seems like the easy thing to do. Uh,
Speaker 1: So that temptation might be to plant a big old
Speaker 1: food plot or bunch of food plots and all those
Speaker 1: openings and things. If you had this scenario forty acres timber,
Speaker 1: ten acres of openings, and you were going to decide
Speaker 1: how you would mix it up, how you would mixed
Speaker 1: grasses with food or no food in all grasses or what?
Speaker 1: Give me you know, in this very specific hypothetical, walk
Speaker 1: me through how you would try to balance things and mad, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you bet so. My first step is, and you kind
Speaker 1: of alluded to it right out of the gate, is
Speaker 1: I take a look at what's around me, so you know,
Speaker 1: what is the limiting factor, you know, within that section
Speaker 1: that you're in. Let's say, you know, so to me,
Speaker 1: it sounds like food probably is not a limiting factor,
Speaker 1: but diverse cover might be. So you know, if that
Speaker 1: ends up being the case, and for this scenario, will
Speaker 1: say that it is. Um. Yeah, I'm I'm leaning pretty
Speaker 1: heavy on you know, putting most of those openings in
Speaker 1: diverse native grasses. You know, something with you know, like
Speaker 1: big blue stem in Indian grass, something that's tall that
Speaker 1: gives me some structure, um and in high quality cover.
Speaker 1: But also you know, ten species of wildflowers in the mix.
Speaker 1: So um, so there's some forage based just not only
Speaker 1: for white tails, but many other species as well. Um.
Speaker 1: It's hard to get away from And I agree with you.
Speaker 1: Those those lush ladno clover food plots are pretty sex
Speaker 1: and they look good. UM, and I would I would
Speaker 1: consider that. I mean, there, there's definitely gonna be um
Speaker 1: some opportunities most likely for um, you know, to include
Speaker 1: a micro plot here or there, you know, just something
Speaker 1: along the border. In fact, most of the time when
Speaker 1: we are you know, planning native restaurant native grass restorations,
Speaker 1: you know the best way to maintain those seatings is
Speaker 1: with prescribed fire. And so as part of our typically
Speaker 1: as part of our our management plan, will encourage you know,
Speaker 1: green fire breaks, which typically consists of clovers and and
Speaker 1: um and other perennials of that nature that can go around.
Speaker 1: So we'll incorporate a little bit of that. And that
Speaker 1: would be something that I would look at. But you know,
Speaker 1: if if diverse cover, especially betting cover, is limiting, I'm
Speaker 1: going I'm putting the majority of my open acres into
Speaker 1: into native grasses with either relying on the fire breaks
Speaker 1: for my perennial food source there for white tails, or
Speaker 1: potentially a micro plot somewhere in a corner. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: where I can I can slip in and slip out
Speaker 1: with the wind in my favor, and and and especially
Speaker 1: during the rut. These are these are areas that are
Speaker 1: that are there are some of my favorite areas the hunt.
Speaker 1: So that's that's how I'm lean and I'm looking at
Speaker 1: the landscape and you know, in totality, determining what I
Speaker 1: think is the most limiting factor um and and using
Speaker 1: that to help kind of set my compass arrow with
Speaker 1: where I go from there. Yeah, I want to take
Speaker 1: things to the extreme. So what if we kind of
Speaker 1: look at the example you mentioned, which was where where
Speaker 1: food is not the limiting factor, but diverse covers the
Speaker 1: limiting limiting factor. What if we went to the far
Speaker 1: far far side of that spectrum where let's say it's
Speaker 1: it's northern Ohio, like northeast Ohio, which I'm pretty close to.
Speaker 1: There's stretches where you go around there where it's just
Speaker 1: section after section with no timber at all. It's just,
Speaker 1: you know, after crops are harvest, is a flat, barren
Speaker 1: waste land with nothing, you have no cover. What if
Speaker 1: you inherit a property out there and you think yourself, well, gosh,
Speaker 1: I have zero trees or very few trees. Uh, it's all,
Speaker 1: you know, it's a jungle of corn and bean fields
Speaker 1: in August, but come you know October, and no, there's
Speaker 1: nothing I need to start from ground zero. What if
Speaker 1: I was trying to create all the cover I would
Speaker 1: have with grasses or newly planted tree as if that
Speaker 1: was an option, what would you do in that case?
Speaker 1: Would it be the exact same thing, just plant the
Speaker 1: same kind of blend and then add some pots in there,
Speaker 1: or is there a different species or a different mix
Speaker 1: or something else you would use when you have that
Speaker 1: limited of cover. Yeah, great question. So it's you know,
Speaker 1: it does kind of depend on what your objectives are.
Speaker 1: So if you're UM as far as mixes go, UM,
Speaker 1: definitely multiple options that you can choose from. If I'm
Speaker 1: if I'm looking at you know, white tails is my primary,
Speaker 1: my primary objective. That's what I like to chase. That's
Speaker 1: what I'm looking for, and I'm in that part of
Speaker 1: the state, I'm sticking with. You know what I mentioned before,
Speaker 1: you know, big blue indian uh, little blue stem as
Speaker 1: my grass component. Um, you know, ten to fifteen species
Speaker 1: of forbes, and I'm I'm putting as many acres in
Speaker 1: on the ground in grass as I can um definitely
Speaker 1: going to you know, have some sort of a perennial
Speaker 1: food source incorporated in there. You know, like I mentioned,
Speaker 1: I'm a fan of clover um, you know, and whether
Speaker 1: that's my fire breaks or you know, a food plot
Speaker 1: kind of snuck in the back corner in the middle
Speaker 1: of of you know this, uh, this grass seating. Either way,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be it's gonna be advantageous for you. And
Speaker 1: uh and you know I've seen scenarios just like this
Speaker 1: and those those uh, you know, those those properties tend
Speaker 1: to tend to start loading up about harvest. You know,
Speaker 1: they'll start seeing more and more more dear activity and
Speaker 1: and uh and it peaks doing during rutt generally, and
Speaker 1: you know, and stays that way all through the winter.
Speaker 1: You know, this is you know, we didn't really mention
Speaker 1: it before, but you know, native grasses as far as
Speaker 1: thermal cover goes, you know, for grassland birds and ground
Speaker 1: nesting birds as well as white tails, you know, being
Speaker 1: able to to withstand the cold, break the wind. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, they they provide a lot of those resources
Speaker 1: that creators need. And um, when you get up in
Speaker 1: those landscapes like that where there isn't much in that,
Speaker 1: you know, much cover at all, and winners can be harsh.
Speaker 1: You know, this is this is an important habitat for
Speaker 1: a lot of species, especially white tails, but um, many
Speaker 1: many other species. So I'm going I'm going heavy and
Speaker 1: I'm going with tall and uh yeah, like I said,
Speaker 1: I'm putting as many acres in as I can. What
Speaker 1: are your thoughts on monoculture plantings. There's some people that
Speaker 1: advocate for like a straight planting of switch grass or
Speaker 1: something like that. Um, and I know there's reasons for
Speaker 1: that on one hand, but what's your take on that?
Speaker 1: Is that problematic in anyway? Is that's why are you
Speaker 1: recommending a blend versus that? Yeah? Great, great question. You
Speaker 1: know there's there's definitely scenarios and situations out there where, um,
Speaker 1: you know, for one reason or another, mono monocultural monoculture
Speaker 1: planning would would make some sense. But by and large,
Speaker 1: you can you know, you want diversity, you want um
Speaker 1: as many species as you can in your mix, and
Speaker 1: and there's many reasons for that. You know, there's for one,
Speaker 1: on one hand, um, you know the the so we
Speaker 1: mentioned ecological goods and services earlier. You know those are
Speaker 1: multiplied by the number of species that you have in
Speaker 1: your mix. UM. Some species can can tolerate conditions a
Speaker 1: little bit better than others. And so you know, if
Speaker 1: you have a you know, a monocultural stand of of
Speaker 1: grass that's not very drought tolerant, let's say, and and
Speaker 1: neo needs it to be a bit wet, and you
Speaker 1: have a drought year, UM, and you don't have other
Speaker 1: species in that mix that can can taller rate that
Speaker 1: you could have a you know, your planning could be
Speaker 1: in in rough shape for a couple of years UM.
Speaker 1: And so you're just kind of getting some added insurance
Speaker 1: there as well. UM. But also from a wildlife standpoint,
Speaker 1: as I mentioned before, you know, wildlife key in on diversity.
Speaker 1: They need uh, multiple species doing what they do at
Speaker 1: different times of the year, UM, providing the necessary habitat
Speaker 1: and forage basis that they need throughout the year. And
Speaker 1: so the more species you have in your mix, UM,
Speaker 1: the more that you can offer you know, not only
Speaker 1: the wildlife, but you know the services on the landscape
Speaker 1: as well. So so I'm always a fan of diversity. UM.
Speaker 1: You know, the more diverse, the better UM. And you
Speaker 1: can always go back in later that's something to you know,
Speaker 1: I mentioned the typical you know, native grass mix, if
Speaker 1: there is such a thing, is generally you know, three
Speaker 1: species of grass, ten species of forbes uh uh, occasionally
Speaker 1: a lagoon in there. Um. But you can always come
Speaker 1: back in later and add additional species down the road too.
Speaker 1: So you know, starting with a three tin mix is
Speaker 1: a good start. Um. And as you get your seating
Speaker 1: kind of in the shape and you like what you're saying,
Speaker 1: you want to come back in and add additional forbes
Speaker 1: or wildflowers, you can so. But I'm I'm a proponent
Speaker 1: of of diversity where I can get it, Okay. So
Speaker 1: I go to Walmart or Tractor Supply or bass Pro
Speaker 1: shops and there's row after row of food plot seed
Speaker 1: bags of the you know, the clover plot that's gonna
Speaker 1: send big bucks my way in the Brassica big buck
Speaker 1: slammer mix that will give me big bucks in December.
Speaker 1: And then there's the you know, the the forage sore
Speaker 1: beans from heaven. Like. There's a thousand different food plot
Speaker 1: options that are marketed to me, and they're easy to find,
Speaker 1: and they tell me exactly what they're gonna do and
Speaker 1: how they're gonna do it. I don't owe many tractor
Speaker 1: supplies or or walmarts. I can walk into where I'm
Speaker 1: going to find a three and ten blend of native
Speaker 1: grasses that are just right for what I'm trying to do.
Speaker 1: How does someone go about finding this seed or the
Speaker 1: right blend. You know, someone doesn't really know what they're
Speaker 1: doing yet and wants a little bit of a handholder
Speaker 1: or want some direction. Where can people get this stuff
Speaker 1: if they're not already tapped into the community. Yeah, great questions.
Speaker 1: So you know, it all starts with who, getting you know,
Speaker 1: making contact with you know, either your your state Fish
Speaker 1: and Wildlife Agency, private lands biologists, match or Resources Conservation
Speaker 1: Service um UH office or you know Pheasants Forever Quill
Speaker 1: Forever farm Bill Wildlife Biologists if you have one in
Speaker 1: your area, and getting that site visits set up and
Speaker 1: walking through um your goals and your objectives on the property,
Speaker 1: because you know every site is different and UM like
Speaker 1: we've just been discussed and you know there's a lot
Speaker 1: of opportunity these for UH for strategy here and so
Speaker 1: it's always good to get you know, that sound technical
Speaker 1: advice on you know what to do and how to
Speaker 1: do it and a sorry, Chris, I'm gonna I'm gonna
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hit time out in that and ask you
Speaker 1: to expand on this part a little bit before going further,
Speaker 1: because I think there's probably people listening that don't know
Speaker 1: how to find that person, or they assume that this
Speaker 1: person is going to cost them money to pay for
Speaker 1: them as a consultant or something. Can you give me
Speaker 1: some specifics like how how do I literally who do
Speaker 1: I call or what office do I get in touch
Speaker 1: with to get a person to come out and walk
Speaker 1: my property with me to do this? Yeah? Great, I
Speaker 1: appreciate you stopping. I well, first and foremost, if if
Speaker 1: you go to U Doesn't Forever and Quill Forever's website
Speaker 1: Www dot Doesn't forever dot org. At the bottom of
Speaker 1: the page, there's a link that says find a biologist
Speaker 1: and you can UM. You can click that link and
Speaker 1: go through our directory and see if there is a
Speaker 1: biologist near you, in which case you can you can
Speaker 1: make a request for service. Otherwise, you can reach out
Speaker 1: to your state Fish and Wildlife agency contacts UM. You
Speaker 1: know whether it's in my state Missouri Department of Conservation, UM,
Speaker 1: Texas parks and wildlife and you know whoever, whatever the
Speaker 1: state is you you're in, reach out to the state
Speaker 1: Fish and Wildlife Agency UM and enquire about private lands assistance.
Speaker 1: And every state has a private lands program UM that
Speaker 1: can reach out and provides you with the technical assistance
Speaker 1: you need, set up a site, visit. It's all free
Speaker 1: of charge. UM you know, it's it's it's service provided
Speaker 1: UM to you. And so UM you know, there's a
Speaker 1: number of different organizations that can help. And if UM
Speaker 1: and if you UM you know you need uh need
Speaker 1: technical assistance, or you have questions about how to better
Speaker 1: manage your property for you know, whatever your interests, then
Speaker 1: white tails, while wild turkey, quail, pheasants. We can help
Speaker 1: you get to where you want to go and see
Speaker 1: achieve your objectives. So UM you know, and that's that
Speaker 1: is a tough That is a tough sometimes a question
Speaker 1: to answer from Landoer's point of view is how do
Speaker 1: I get started? You know? And and in some areas
Speaker 1: it's not as highly you know, understood or publicized as
Speaker 1: far as you know where to go to get this
Speaker 1: help UM as it as it may be in other places.
Speaker 1: So UM, I can tell you that you know our staff.
Speaker 1: We have staff and in um just just under forty states. UM,
Speaker 1: if you can get in contact with someone from Pheasants forever,
Speaker 1: Quail forever, UM. If we can't, if we don't have
Speaker 1: someone close by, we can definitely get you in contact
Speaker 1: with with folks who can help you. UM. So that
Speaker 1: might be just as good a place to start as
Speaker 1: any awesome. Okay, So then from there start to interrupting,
Speaker 1: You're you're starting to building where where we go from there? Then? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so so you've got your you've got your you've got
Speaker 1: your you've major contact, and you've got your private lands
Speaker 1: biologists at your door. What you're gonna do next is
Speaker 1: you're just gonna take a walk around. You're gonna look
Speaker 1: at the property, if you're gonna see what opportunities are there.
Speaker 1: They're gonna be talking with you about, you know, what
Speaker 1: your goals and your objectives are. You know, I would
Speaker 1: love to see more dear or you know I heard
Speaker 1: Quail five years ago. I don't hear him as much
Speaker 1: as I used to. I sure would love to hear
Speaker 1: uh more Bob White singing or um. You know, hey,
Speaker 1: I enjoy seeing monarch butterflies when they passed through. What
Speaker 1: can I do to um, you know, to to see
Speaker 1: more monarchs and whatever that might be. We can provide
Speaker 1: you with the technical assistance that you need. Along with
Speaker 1: that comes a conversation about native grasslands and grasses that
Speaker 1: you want to um that you might want to install,
Speaker 1: and with that generally comes in management plan. And along
Speaker 1: with that management plan comes your you know, your wrecking
Speaker 1: ended seed mix. So that that technic, that technical service
Speaker 1: provider is gonna take a look at your where you're
Speaker 1: physically located at, what state, Where in that state are
Speaker 1: you located, what species were historically prevalent in the in
Speaker 1: that particular area, and then take a look at your
Speaker 1: goals and objectives and they're going to develop your seed mix.
Speaker 1: With that, you generally get a list of vendors and
Speaker 1: there's native seed vendors all over the country depending upon
Speaker 1: where you're at, and generally you're provided with a list
Speaker 1: and you can go down that list and make your
Speaker 1: to make your selection based on um you know, who
Speaker 1: you want to who you want to work with, and
Speaker 1: so um you know, there there is uh you know,
Speaker 1: like I said, a number of great opportunities out there
Speaker 1: for folks to get their hands on on the seed
Speaker 1: that they need and and those vendors also provide a
Speaker 1: uh an exceptional service and and can answer technical questions
Speaker 1: as well, and and you know, help help folks it
Speaker 1: to where they want to go. Also awesome. Uh Here's
Speaker 1: here's another kind of I guess this is kind of
Speaker 1: related to this type of question, like understanding what the
Speaker 1: right grasses are for your area for your situation. UM,
Speaker 1: I'm curious about how you would handle analyzing a current
Speaker 1: like a current old field, like something that you haven't planted,
Speaker 1: you haven't done anything with, but you arrive on the
Speaker 1: scene way. Maybe it's because you're brand new to the property,
Speaker 1: or maybe it's because, well, there's a here's here's a
Speaker 1: great perfect example. I think I saw you post a
Speaker 1: video I don't know last year or something where you
Speaker 1: were driving around your property the spring after doing a
Speaker 1: burn and you said, you're heading down to this area
Speaker 1: that you burned and you were gonna go put a
Speaker 1: food plot down there. And you get down to this area,
Speaker 1: you arrived on the scene where you thought you were
Speaker 1: going to carve out this grass and put in a
Speaker 1: food plot, and then you said, oh, whoa change the
Speaker 1: plans I see milkweed, and I say, I see this stuff,
Speaker 1: and I see this stuff, and I see this stuff.
Speaker 1: There's no way I'm going to get rid of this.
Speaker 1: I've got to keep this. How how do you go
Speaker 1: about making that decision? What did you see there that
Speaker 1: made you realize, oh, this is worth keeping, We're not
Speaker 1: going to get rid of this, or you know, more generically,
Speaker 1: if someone's looking at an old field or a new field,
Speaker 1: there's something that they don't know about, how they how
Speaker 1: can they go about judging how high quality of habitat
Speaker 1: that is or how important that is, and if they
Speaker 1: need to change it or just nurture it. Yeah, great questions.
Speaker 1: So you know, one thing to keep in mind is
Speaker 1: and in that that video that you saw, so that
Speaker 1: was that was an old field originally when I bought
Speaker 1: that property, that had some had some remnant native prairie
Speaker 1: in it. So when I bought it, one of the
Speaker 1: first things I did was kind of take a look around,
Speaker 1: and you know, it was old pasture at one time,
Speaker 1: and so there was you know, there was some cool
Speaker 1: seeds grasses in there and sayings that you know, it
Speaker 1: was providing some habitat. But I would see you know,
Speaker 1: a clump of big blue stem over here, and you know,
Speaker 1: maybe a wild flower over there, and you know, the
Speaker 1: seed bank. No matter where you live, there are natives
Speaker 1: in the seed bank. Those seeds are there, and it's
Speaker 1: kind of a it all really depends on how degraded
Speaker 1: that system might be, as to, Okay, can I bring
Speaker 1: this back with a little bit of fire in her beside,
Speaker 1: or do I need to go down the road of
Speaker 1: putting a native you know, going in and prepping it
Speaker 1: and just doing a restoration and do do a seating.
Speaker 1: And so so I'm looking for I'm looking for keys.
Speaker 1: And in that particular case, you know, milkweed is a
Speaker 1: is uh very very important to monarch butterflies and and
Speaker 1: it's also you know, something that you believe it or not,
Speaker 1: sort of limited on the landscape these days. And so
Speaker 1: um so yeah, I was, I was going down there.
Speaker 1: I was gonna put in a perennial plot along this
Speaker 1: uh along the stream. And we had just done some
Speaker 1: burning earlier in the year and came back and sure
Speaker 1: enough there there was a whole bunch of milk weed there.
Speaker 1: And so I always air on the side of diversity,
Speaker 1: like I said earlier, so that's that was not something
Speaker 1: I planted in that particular spot there, but it was there,
Speaker 1: and it my property is going to be better the
Speaker 1: more diverse it is. So for me to have rhado
Speaker 1: tilt that and prepped it and went in with with
Speaker 1: clover in that particular spot, um, I wasn't going to
Speaker 1: maximize everything that my you know, my property could be
Speaker 1: so um, so I pivoted and moved and went to
Speaker 1: a went to a different spot and all worked out,
Speaker 1: um for the better. But you know, looking at those
Speaker 1: old field situations, you can kind of all based on
Speaker 1: if you're seeing remnant natives present versus none at all.
Speaker 1: That kind of tells you, okay, whether you've got something
Speaker 1: to work with here, or whether you're looking at a
Speaker 1: complete burned down and and then receding. And in this
Speaker 1: particular case, I did both. I I had a kind
Speaker 1: of had the field split in half. I had a
Speaker 1: little bit more remnant on one half, a lot less
Speaker 1: on the other. I did a restoration on one half
Speaker 1: and I did some some burning and some herbside application
Speaker 1: at the right time and brought the other half back
Speaker 1: and so um, you know, it's it isn't an exact science.
Speaker 1: But again it's it's it's working the land, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's it's working with what you have and making
Speaker 1: making management decisions that you think ultimately you're gonna healthy
Speaker 1: get to where you want to go, and um, and
Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a really fun process along the way.
Speaker 1: And you know, the thing I would say too, is,
Speaker 1: you know habitat management that there was Bob Ross said,
Speaker 1: you know, there's no mistakes, only happy accidents. It's very
Speaker 1: much like that. You know, it's you know, you you
Speaker 1: are afforded the opportunity to learn as you go, and um,
Speaker 1: you know, there's nothing generally that's too bad that you
Speaker 1: can't go back and and learn from and and and
Speaker 1: and incorrect later. So it's really a it's it's low risk,
Speaker 1: high reward, you know kind of activity stuff. Yeah, let's
Speaker 1: say we've we've either discovered an opening that we want
Speaker 1: to improve and manage or well, I guess this is
Speaker 1: probably to two separate tracks. I suppose there's probably one track,
Speaker 1: which is how do I plant something that is not
Speaker 1: currently in grasses? It's it's either an old crop field
Speaker 1: or an old pasture or something or timber. And now
Speaker 1: it's open um. So I guess part one is I'd
Speaker 1: love to talk to you about how do we go
Speaker 1: about planting new grass as a new blend. And then
Speaker 1: the second avenue will be then what if we have
Speaker 1: something old, some remnant and we want to manage it
Speaker 1: and improve it? Um, can you walk me through the
Speaker 1: step by step you know, how do we prep and
Speaker 1: and actually do this stuff? Because it's I mean, is
Speaker 1: it is it just like planning a food plot or
Speaker 1: would you say it's different? It's different? It is? And um,
Speaker 1: you know the thing I would say too is is uh,
Speaker 1: the techniques are the same, but the way that you
Speaker 1: do it is takes a little bit more finesse. So
Speaker 1: let's take the scenario that you have a crop field
Speaker 1: and you're going to be decided that you're going to
Speaker 1: put native grasses or field borders into into this crop field.
Speaker 1: In my opinion, that's the best case scenario. If you're
Speaker 1: doing a uh you know you're actually going to do
Speaker 1: a seating. The reason for that is, like anything else,
Speaker 1: this is where it's similar to putting a food plot
Speaker 1: in It all starts with your your site prep. If
Speaker 1: you if you do not go uh in all in
Speaker 1: on your side prep, you could have some chat. You
Speaker 1: almost will always have some challenges with your seating. So
Speaker 1: side prep is incredibly important. And you know, typically if
Speaker 1: I had a landowner that let's say they had an
Speaker 1: old fescuwed pasture, it wasn't being farmed at the moment,
Speaker 1: but they wanted to go do a native restoration on
Speaker 1: those acres, I would encourage them to to plant let's say,
Speaker 1: soy beans for two years something. Round up, ready, you know,
Speaker 1: get beans there, get that that cool season competition under control. Um,
Speaker 1: that's really really important. So um going into a you bet,
Speaker 1: go ahead real quick. You've mentioned the cool season competition
Speaker 1: and and something that I've heard over the years and
Speaker 1: have had to pick up on my own. But I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people that aren't really savoy and
Speaker 1: this stuff won't really understand the difference between like cool
Speaker 1: season grasses and warm season grasses or something like that.
Speaker 1: Can you can you just explain that a little bit?
Speaker 1: You bet? Yeah, I appreciate you stopping me there. I
Speaker 1: should have done that early. I So cool season and
Speaker 1: warm season grasses. So there um native varieties and non
Speaker 1: native varieties of both that exist on the landscape today.
Speaker 1: Warm season grasses grow when the soul temperatures are warmer,
Speaker 1: reach a certain degree level of kind of various depending
Speaker 1: upon the species, but they're actively growing during the warm
Speaker 1: part of the year. Cool season grasses are growing during
Speaker 1: the spring and the falls typically dormant during this summer.
Speaker 1: So for example, right now, we're in April, you know,
Speaker 1: looking out my window here, looking at my yard, you'll
Speaker 1: get fescue and and some brom out there. It's lush
Speaker 1: and it's green. It's a growing right now. So that's
Speaker 1: that's a cool season, cool season grass as opposed to
Speaker 1: the warm season, which is um, you know, starting to
Speaker 1: green up here around here when we're especially if they've
Speaker 1: if they've burned. But that's the difference, okay, And is
Speaker 1: it typically those cool season grasses that are trouble for
Speaker 1: some of our more preferred plantings because they start going early.
Speaker 1: I'll compete whatever you planted and then you get this
Speaker 1: really patchy or poor growth of what you actually want.
Speaker 1: Is that? Yeah, that's right. So the you know, especially
Speaker 1: on a new seating, the first three years are the
Speaker 1: most critical for a native warm season grass seating. So
Speaker 1: when you've got cool season competition, um, you know, those
Speaker 1: they're competing for the same resources, and so especially something
Speaker 1: like askue that sod forming as of native seedlings are
Speaker 1: coming up through the ground um that bescue, you can
Speaker 1: really overtake them and shade them out and out compete them.
Speaker 1: So you want to really make sure that you're you're
Speaker 1: staying on top of that and you're diligent. But if
Speaker 1: you do a very good job of your you know,
Speaker 1: to site prep, you're pretty well got the battle one
Speaker 1: right away. So that's kind of where I come back to.
Speaker 1: If you had, in the best case scenario, you're going
Speaker 1: into a uh an area that's you know, had multiple
Speaker 1: applications of Glypha state or round up applied, whether that
Speaker 1: is just your chemical burned down. You know, you've come
Speaker 1: you've mowed your fescue off, you've sprayed it twice the
Speaker 1: previous fall, burn that residue off, come back with one
Speaker 1: more application in the spring. Or you're going into an
Speaker 1: area that has been routinely cropped every year. You've got
Speaker 1: a great seedbed prepped, there's no weed competition, You're you've
Speaker 1: got plenty of bare soil. Now you're ready to put
Speaker 1: your seed down. There's two ways to do that UM,
Speaker 1: you can either broadcast seed your natives with a with
Speaker 1: a carrier of some type UM, you know, whether that's
Speaker 1: um vermiculite or something that you can put into the
Speaker 1: your broadcast seater that can that can agitate and also
Speaker 1: carry that seed. The native seed is incredibly light, very
Speaker 1: very fluffy. UM. It's adapted to be spread by wind,
Speaker 1: so you know, it's it's can be tough to get
Speaker 1: out the back of a seater. But UM, a seed
Speaker 1: you know, a spreader like a vicon that has a
Speaker 1: a dogtail on the back that that can really agitate.
Speaker 1: That's that's a great tool to use. UM. You want
Speaker 1: to see and it's actually Broadcast seating is my preferred
Speaker 1: method of seeding natives. I like to go in as
Speaker 1: long as the site prep has been done very well.
Speaker 1: I got plenty of bare ground. UM. I like to
Speaker 1: go in during the winter months, you know, January February,
Speaker 1: right before snow in my areas is ideal. Go in
Speaker 1: and broadcast seed. UM let that snow get on top
Speaker 1: of it, and then the free stall on the spring
Speaker 1: that that motion just works at seed in into the ground.
Speaker 1: Just just just perfect. And I really like broadcast seeding
Speaker 1: but the other way you can do it is with
Speaker 1: the warm season grass drill. So it looks a lot
Speaker 1: like a grain drill um, only it has agitators inside
Speaker 1: the hopper that can help seed the native seed. And
Speaker 1: what you're really trying to do, and this is again
Speaker 1: a situation where the technique is similar to plan a
Speaker 1: food plot, but it is different. You only need that
Speaker 1: native seed to be in I mean about half as
Speaker 1: deep as your thumbnail is long. It just needs a
Speaker 1: little bit of coverage. It doesn't need a lot. If you, uh,
Speaker 1: you plant that seed too deep, it's not gonna it's
Speaker 1: not gonna grow. So if you use the drill, you
Speaker 1: just wanted to have those cultures scratching the surface. That's
Speaker 1: just deep enough. But you know, you you get good
Speaker 1: seed to soil contact that way. It's another great method
Speaker 1: for um for planning your grasses. So so you've got
Speaker 1: the seed on the ground, you've either broadcast seeded it,
Speaker 1: or you have drilled it. Now comes the fun part,
Speaker 1: and that's when you get to kind of just sit
Speaker 1: back and and watch. So year one, don't expect a
Speaker 1: lot those natives are putting their growing, but they're growing underground,
Speaker 1: so that first year, they're putting their roots down. Remember
Speaker 1: I mentioned compass plant for example, is a very very
Speaker 1: tall native native plant, but it can have a root,
Speaker 1: a tap root um as deep as as twenty So
Speaker 1: it's it's it's putting, it's it's putting its roots down.
Speaker 1: So don't don't be expecting, you know, lush, big crp
Speaker 1: looking fields the first year, it's coming, trust me, it's coming.
Speaker 1: But that first year they're putting their roots down. What
Speaker 1: you're really looking at that first year is competition. So
Speaker 1: this is where anyone who's gonna do this work, whether
Speaker 1: there whether they think they will, you know this is
Speaker 1: gonna happen to them or not, they'll kind of become um,
Speaker 1: very proficient in plan identification because they're gonna be out
Speaker 1: there looking and they're gonna be they're gonna learn how
Speaker 1: to identify natives versus unwanted species. And so you're looking
Speaker 1: out there, you're just kind of seeing what you have.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be weedy, that's okay. Those there's gonna be
Speaker 1: annuals that come up in it. That's gonna be just fine.
Speaker 1: It's uh, it's actually providing some habitat for some annual
Speaker 1: habitat for wildlife. Um, this is where you need to
Speaker 1: have a mower handy, So it's okay, and we highly
Speaker 1: recommend at least twice a year in most areas to
Speaker 1: come in and clip that seating down. What you're doing
Speaker 1: is you're just keep in the playing field level at
Speaker 1: that point, so there will be a little bit of competition.
Speaker 1: No matter how good your site prep is, you'll have
Speaker 1: you know, you'll have some so through mo and a
Speaker 1: couple of times a year, you're just kind of keeping
Speaker 1: everything controlled while those natives are putting the roots down.
Speaker 1: Second year, second growing season, you're gonna start seeing wildflowers.
Speaker 1: At this point, you're gonna start seeing bunches of big
Speaker 1: blue in Indian grass and whatever you know, bunch grasses
Speaker 1: you have in your mix. You're gonna start seeing these
Speaker 1: start to really show themselves and you might be ready
Speaker 1: to rock and roll at this point. It just kind
Speaker 1: of depends on weather conditions and a number of things.
Speaker 1: I've seen second year plannings take off and look incredible,
Speaker 1: and you're you're up and running most of the time.
Speaker 1: You're looking to the it. You know, to mow at
Speaker 1: least once during year two and so that's kind of
Speaker 1: a judgment call, and you can work with your private
Speaker 1: lands biologists that you've worked with on the on the
Speaker 1: project to kind of determine when to make that call.
Speaker 1: But generally, as a rule of thumb, I'm looking to
Speaker 1: mow once that second year. By year three, you should
Speaker 1: have an established, fully established grassland restoration project on your hands,
Speaker 1: and you're you're up and off to the races at
Speaker 1: that point. And by then, once it's established and ready
Speaker 1: to go, prescribed fire is going to be your your friend.
Speaker 1: You know, this work is it's fun, you know it
Speaker 1: is Uh, it does require some patients, um, but there's
Speaker 1: a lot of there's a lot of benefit that comes
Speaker 1: from you know, getting some some expertise around learning how
Speaker 1: to use prescribed fire and the best management tool you're
Speaker 1: ever gonna have to manage your grasses. And so by
Speaker 1: your three you gotta be looking at okay about time
Speaker 1: for burn um And when you burns kind of depends
Speaker 1: on what your objectives are. So you know, you can
Speaker 1: burn your natives anytime during the dormant season, and if
Speaker 1: you burn them you know early, let's say January February,
Speaker 1: that tends to favor wildflowers, more diversity, you burn them
Speaker 1: a little bit later. It tends to favorite grasses a
Speaker 1: little bit more cover. All are things that you can
Speaker 1: work with your you know, your local point of contact
Speaker 1: on to make the determination that's best for you. But
Speaker 1: but that's that's sort of the the timeline really for
Speaker 1: for putting this work on the ground and getting a
Speaker 1: project from start to finish. Okay, So then what about
Speaker 1: scenario two where I've got an old field or something
Speaker 1: that I think that I've got something to work with,
Speaker 1: but I don't exactly know what, and I want to
Speaker 1: try to turn this thing into something worthwhile? What then
Speaker 1: you bet? You bet? So these are these are a
Speaker 1: lot of fun actually, and they're very they're very common.
Speaker 1: So scenario to you go into an old field, You're
Speaker 1: walking around with your private lands biologists and you're identifying
Speaker 1: you know, they make the decision, hey, we've got we
Speaker 1: might have something to work with here. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: seeing some rimnant. You've got a lot of unwanted cool
Speaker 1: seasons in here, but this is this is probably salvageable.
Speaker 1: Your two primary go to practices are going to be
Speaker 1: her poside and fire, So you're gonna look at that situation,
Speaker 1: and based on the recommendations of your of your point
Speaker 1: of contact there, you're gonna have likely an opportunity or
Speaker 1: a recommendation rather to apply some form of herbose side
Speaker 1: in the fall. Now this can be um, this can
Speaker 1: change depending upon you know, what they see out there,
Speaker 1: but generally you're gonna be putting a grass selective herbicide
Speaker 1: down in the fall. So something that's gonna be targeting
Speaker 1: those cool seasons that's in there, um and some of
Speaker 1: those unwanted species that are in there. Um, your natives
Speaker 1: are gonna be dormant, especially if you wait, um until
Speaker 1: after the first hard frost, your natives will almost always
Speaker 1: be dormant any time after that. If you're working with
Speaker 1: an unwanted cool season like fescue, you can spray that
Speaker 1: almost any time if the the ambient air temperature is
Speaker 1: somewhere in that fifties degree mark. I've had some great
Speaker 1: results spray in fescue out of remnant native stands in
Speaker 1: the middle of December in central Missouri when we've had
Speaker 1: you know, a couple of day warm shot there where
Speaker 1: we're in the fifties and so um, So you're gonna
Speaker 1: go in in October into October. If you're in the
Speaker 1: central part of the US and you're gonna apply you know,
Speaker 1: either a grass selective herbicide or some something. This is
Speaker 1: just a light application of round up and starts setting
Speaker 1: that unwanted cool season back. You're gonna watch that over
Speaker 1: the winter, see how it progresses. Generally, in most cases,
Speaker 1: come you're gonna come back the next spring with a
Speaker 1: prescribed fire and you're gonna run fires through there. That's
Speaker 1: going to continue to work on those unwanted cool season,
Speaker 1: set them back a little bit more, while at the
Speaker 1: same time that fire generates a response from the natives.
Speaker 1: So between the the application of the herbicide and the
Speaker 1: incorporation of the fire, you're really knocking back the cool
Speaker 1: season and you're giving those natives a kick start. And
Speaker 1: again it's about succession and competition, so you can get
Speaker 1: that cool season set back just enough to where those
Speaker 1: natives are or or kick started enough to where they're
Speaker 1: up over the top. Um generally you're off, you're off
Speaker 1: to the races, and and you might have to repeat
Speaker 1: that process the following fall, but generally in a couple
Speaker 1: of years, especially if you have a really good seed
Speaker 1: bank that has uh, you know, diverse native seeds in there,
Speaker 1: you'll you'll be in good shape. And the best part
Speaker 1: about that particular situation where you're going into a remnant
Speaker 1: scenario is it's incredibly cost effective. You know, a little
Speaker 1: bit of herbicide, you know, eighty jug of of glass
Speaker 1: to sade or or select or something like that, and uh,
Speaker 1: a little bit of deesel on gasoline in a drip
Speaker 1: torch and you can you can have, um, you know,
Speaker 1: some incredibly beneficial, high quality ABTA on your hands and
Speaker 1: in just a couple of years. M Now what about
Speaker 1: long term management? And in both scenarios, Let's say you've
Speaker 1: got your great stand of native grasses like you want them. Um,
Speaker 1: is it then just applying fire at some interval for perpetuity?
Speaker 1: Or is mowing ever a tool you would use at
Speaker 1: that point? Ever? Again, Um, any selective spraying of shrubs
Speaker 1: or something popping up anything else like that. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's actually it's all three. So you know you kind
Speaker 1: of want to you know, I guess first and foremost,
Speaker 1: you know, once you have your once you have your
Speaker 1: grass established, you're really looking at you're not just your
Speaker 1: grasslands at that point, But how does that all fit
Speaker 1: within your property? And so you're really wanting to manage
Speaker 1: you know, on sort of a a one third rotation.
Speaker 1: So you want to see some sort of active management
Speaker 1: on your one third of your property a year. And UM,
Speaker 1: you know, if it's all grassland, that's great. Um, you're
Speaker 1: gonna be burning or disking or mowing a third a
Speaker 1: year if it's kind of a in my case, you know,
Speaker 1: in my property, I've got mixed woods and and grassland habitats,
Speaker 1: and so I'm using a lot of prescribed fire um
Speaker 1: part and both my woodlands and my grasslands about a
Speaker 1: thirty years. So but for the purposes of you know,
Speaker 1: grassland management, you're really looking at disking, mowing, prescribed fire,
Speaker 1: or herb desides. You have four uh, primary tools at
Speaker 1: your disposal. All are great. Um, they all have their
Speaker 1: benefits and uh and they're definitely scenarios where some favorite
Speaker 1: or more favorable than the other. But I always lean
Speaker 1: heavily on fire. Um. You know, it's like I said,
Speaker 1: it's inexpensive, it's a it's a very impactful management tool
Speaker 1: for a number of reasons. UM. And it's it's something
Speaker 1: that's um, you know that when done correctly is is uh,
Speaker 1: you can really give your your best benefits, your best
Speaker 1: bang for your buck there um. But there are definitely
Speaker 1: are instances where you know, mowing is gonna it's gonna
Speaker 1: make some sense disking, especially if you have old, older
Speaker 1: plantings that maybe are very grass dominated and you're wanting
Speaker 1: to improve some diversity. You get some diversity back back
Speaker 1: into that stand. You know, disking can be a very
Speaker 1: effective tool in that uh in that case, same with
Speaker 1: prescribed with herbicide application to So it just kind of
Speaker 1: all depends. But those are going to be your four
Speaker 1: primary management tools that you're gonna want to have it
Speaker 1: at the ready is uh. You know, good mower, a
Speaker 1: you know sprayer, a drip torch and um and a
Speaker 1: desk and you're gonna be set all right. So the
Speaker 1: one roadblock, I don't know if this is a roadblock,
Speaker 1: but this is like a potential red flag for me
Speaker 1: as I'm working through this for myself, was like, man,
Speaker 1: this sounds like uh a lot of kind of energy
Speaker 1: and time and maybe money getting put into this. I've
Speaker 1: got to figure out a way to rent ceeder. I've
Speaker 1: got to figure out a way to buy this herbicide,
Speaker 1: I've gotta you know, get this thing and that thing. Um,
Speaker 1: if there's someone worrying about that kind of thing. I
Speaker 1: imagine that the government programs out there to help fund
Speaker 1: some of this stuff might be helpful, like the CRP
Speaker 1: program or others. Can you can you dive further than
Speaker 1: than that, because we talked a little bit about how
Speaker 1: there's there's free consultation services sometimes, but there's also programs
Speaker 1: where you know, the government is incentivizing private landowners to
Speaker 1: do work like this and even sometimes compensating you for it.
Speaker 1: Can you can you give us the cliff notes on
Speaker 1: what kind of programs we should look for specifically and
Speaker 1: how to do that. Absolutely absolutely, and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I just started by saying that the you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's really been. UM it's it's been, uh pretty incredible
Speaker 1: to see the amount of horsepower and emphasis being placed
Speaker 1: on grassland habitat restoration across the country, UM and in
Speaker 1: the interest that's out there in voluntary conservation practices to
Speaker 1: put grasslands on the on the landscape and and uh
Speaker 1: to help landowners make that happen and achieve their objectives.
Speaker 1: There's been significant resources put into UM both state and
Speaker 1: federal programs to help offset UM, you know, the costs
Speaker 1: of of a number of this war or a lot
Speaker 1: of this work. So you know, to start right out
Speaker 1: with with the program that most folks are familiar with,
Speaker 1: the Conservation Reserve Programs c RP. You know that is
Speaker 1: continues to be a very very impactful and um in
Speaker 1: popular program for for landowners to participate in. You know,
Speaker 1: it's completely voluntary. UM. It provides the landowner with an
Speaker 1: annual rental payment UM for for those acres that go
Speaker 1: into the program. UM. There's a sational funding available UM
Speaker 1: in most cases to offset you know, the restoration costs,
Speaker 1: so like the drill rental and the seed UH costs
Speaker 1: and things along those lines. And UM. You know that
Speaker 1: program is a US Department of AGG administered program both
Speaker 1: Natural Resources and Natural Resources Conservation Service and the Farm
Speaker 1: Service Agency UM. Helping delivering that program are Pheasants Forever
Speaker 1: and Quill Forever, farm Bill wildiffiologists do as well and
Speaker 1: m and you know, that's a very uh user friendly
Speaker 1: opportunity for folks to get grassland work on the ground.
Speaker 1: The CRP program, however, it does require or some eligibility
Speaker 1: requirements so for example, you would have had to have
Speaker 1: had UM you know, cropping history on the acres that
Speaker 1: are enrolled in the program. There has to be what
Speaker 1: they refer to as UM UM UH. Well, there's a
Speaker 1: score that's taken biological index that's UM kind of helps
Speaker 1: determine eligibility as well. So that's that's one option. The
Speaker 1: second option, again a U s D A opportunity is
Speaker 1: the Environmental Quality and Sentenced Program UM EQUIPPED for short UH.
Speaker 1: This program is administered by the Natural Resources Conservation Service.
Speaker 1: They have specific practices in in equipped for grassland restoration
Speaker 1: for wildlife UM while you know, and they can provide
Speaker 1: financial assistance to landowners interested and in doing this work.
Speaker 1: So it's it's cost share. There's not an annual rental
Speaker 1: payment per se with this, but they're definitely available funds
Speaker 1: available to help offset the cost of the restoration, putting
Speaker 1: the grass on the ground, getting getting the drill rented,
Speaker 1: buying the herbicide. It's all available for folks. UM. You know,
Speaker 1: it's a there is an application process as well, and
Speaker 1: there is a ranking and scoring. But you know, you're
Speaker 1: not to Resources Conservation Service UH staff or peasants forever
Speaker 1: quil Forever, Farm Build Wildlife biologists can help you through that, UM,
Speaker 1: and help you navigate those programs as well. So UM,
Speaker 1: you know those are two of of of many. But
Speaker 1: you know, if folks are interested in doing this work, UM,
Speaker 1: you know, I would highly encourage encourage them to reach
Speaker 1: out and and just ask the question. You know, if
Speaker 1: they want to reach out to us as Pheasants Forever,
Speaker 1: quil Forever, We're happy to help them get started, point
Speaker 1: them in the right direction. If we can't take them
Speaker 1: all the way. UM. You know, these these programs can
Speaker 1: be a little bit confusing, UM, and we definitely don't
Speaker 1: want to see that be a barrier to anyone that's
Speaker 1: interested in putting grassland habitats on the ground. So we'll
Speaker 1: help you in any way that we can and and
Speaker 1: and help find the program that best fits your your
Speaker 1: goals and objectives. So I gotta say I have not
Speaker 1: hunted pheasants in twenty years. Chris, Well, that's ridiculous. We gotta.
Speaker 1: I know that is bad, um, But despite that, I
Speaker 1: became a Pheasants Forever re member a few years ago
Speaker 1: and have stuck with it because of the work, like
Speaker 1: what you're describing their having biologists that are helping out
Speaker 1: all these things in the the way you guys are
Speaker 1: positively impacting grassland habitat across the country. Which despite not
Speaker 1: being a pheasant hunter, I love the grasslands and the
Speaker 1: great plains and have had some incredible deer hunting experiences
Speaker 1: in those types of habitats. So I'm a big fan
Speaker 1: of the work you guys are doing. Um So I
Speaker 1: would tell everyone that they should strongly considering supporting the
Speaker 1: work you guys are doing. A Pheasants Forever. You guys
Speaker 1: have a great magazine to which your members get, which
Speaker 1: I which even not, you know, even though the pheasant
Speaker 1: hunting part isn't what's drawing me in, I'm really interesting
Speaker 1: like the habitat stuff you guys talk about in there,
Speaker 1: so so good stuff across the board. That's that's my pitch.
Speaker 1: What would your pitch be? Two folks listening for why
Speaker 1: maybe they should check out uh PF and Quail Forever
Speaker 1: and any of the other work you guys have got
Speaker 1: going on. Yeah, well, I appreciate that, you know, I
Speaker 1: guess you know, I came to work here because of
Speaker 1: the habitat, you know, because of the mission. You know,
Speaker 1: this organization is is as grassroots as as they as
Speaker 1: they get. Um, we are we do our best to
Speaker 1: to do all we can to make a difference on
Speaker 1: the landscape for for quail, for pheasants, for pollinators, for
Speaker 1: all kinds of wildlife species. And you know, we're we're
Speaker 1: here to to make that landscape level change and you
Speaker 1: know we'll continue to continue to do that and and
Speaker 1: we want to, uh, we want to continue to be
Speaker 1: in a position to make those impacts for a really
Speaker 1: long time. And so I encourage anyone that's uh that's
Speaker 1: interested in learning more about peasants from every forever to
Speaker 1: to check us out on our website, uh www dot
Speaker 1: Pheasants Forever dot org or w e W Don't Fail
Speaker 1: Forever dot org. Uh, we're active on and all social
Speaker 1: media platforms. Check us out, and you know, give us
Speaker 1: a look. And uh and uh, you know, we hope,
Speaker 1: we hope be coming be part of our family here.
Speaker 1: And I think it's a good idea, I really do. Chris,
Speaker 1: is there if if there was someone who had been
Speaker 1: stuck on this hypothetical Elevator mentioned it at the beginning
Speaker 1: when you pitched us on Grassland Habitat. What if we
Speaker 1: had been stuck on an elevator this entire time. The
Speaker 1: elevator broken down. We've been stuck here. You've covered all
Speaker 1: this ground. You've talked about why grasses are great. You've
Speaker 1: talked about how they benefit deer and other critters and
Speaker 1: the land. We've talked through where to plant it, when
Speaker 1: to plant it, how to plant it. The elevator door
Speaker 1: finally is opening. Now we're about to walk off. If
Speaker 1: you had any final parting thought you could share with
Speaker 1: this person who is now about to head to their
Speaker 1: car and get off of this blasted elevator, Is there
Speaker 1: anything else you'd say to them? Well, for one thing,
Speaker 1: I'd have their name and their number, and I'd be
Speaker 1: following back up with them and uh and and making
Speaker 1: sure that that they didn't forget that we talked. But
Speaker 1: I would tell them this is a game changer. This
Speaker 1: is uh, this, this really is these You know, these
Speaker 1: habitats are were meant to be there. Um and you
Speaker 1: know we we use this cliche all the time. You know,
Speaker 1: build it and they will come. That's a fact with this.
Speaker 1: And UM, you know you're never gonna go wrong, um
Speaker 1: making the investment and UM and you know putting grasslands
Speaker 1: on on the landscape, putting grasslands on your farm. Um,
Speaker 1: you know they're they're gonna change how They're gonna change
Speaker 1: how you hunt, They're gonna change how you think about
Speaker 1: your property. They're gonna change about change with you know,
Speaker 1: how you think about the landscape. So don't overlook it.
Speaker 1: It is a game changer. Awesome, Chris. Well, you've got
Speaker 1: my name and number, so feel free to reach back
Speaker 1: up to me and check and see how I'm doing
Speaker 1: on this. Some of these things, I've got some I've
Speaker 1: got some old nasty like fescue kind of habitat on
Speaker 1: a proper to have permission on that. For for years now,
Speaker 1: I've known I've I've got to try to do something
Speaker 1: about it to convert it to something more useful, and uh,
Speaker 1: this might be the kick in the tail to finally
Speaker 1: do it. So so thank you for that, Chris, and
Speaker 1: thanks for all for all of this has been super helpful. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I really appreciate the opportunity and and again happy to
Speaker 1: answer any questions that come come our way. I could
Speaker 1: talk about this stuff all day and I'll be uh,
Speaker 1: I'll be following up with you to see if you've
Speaker 1: you've gotten active there and then uh, get started on
Speaker 1: your project. Don't worry about that, all right. It sounds good, Chris,
Speaker 1: thank you, You're welcome, all right, and that is it
Speaker 1: for us today. Appreciate you tuning in. I'll let you
Speaker 1: go with just a final couple updates. Number one, we've
Speaker 1: got a sale from first Light. If you're listening to
Speaker 1: this just when it came out, there's a sale that
Speaker 1: started on April two thousand twenty two from our pals
Speaker 1: over at First Light up to off a whole lot
Speaker 1: of their stuff, So check it out at first light
Speaker 1: dot com. Again. That's you know, if you're listening to
Speaker 1: this just a few days after April. Sorry, if you're
Speaker 1: listening to this, it's probably still not going. But I
Speaker 1: do hope you're still listening because that would be good
Speaker 1: if this podcast is still running and helping people at
Speaker 1: that point. So fingers crossed. Other news, make sure you're
Speaker 1: signed up to the Wired Hunt weekly newsletter. That's where
Speaker 1: me and Tony Peterson and all the other folks on
Speaker 1: our white Tail team are sharing our updates. Are articles,
Speaker 1: are how to videos, different things to help you on
Speaker 1: your deer hunting journey as well. So check those things out.
Speaker 1: I appreciate you, I hope you enjoyed this conversation, and
Speaker 1: until next time, stay wired.