1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane 2 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: Never Told Your Protection of iHeartRadio, and welcome to another 3 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: edition of a book Club. Content warning before we get 4 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: into this one, we are going to be talking about 5 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: intergenerational racial trauma, slavery, death, sexual assaults. They're all like 6 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:34,639 Speaker 1: heavy topics, so it's not that we're going to get 7 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 1: into them too much, but they're like still really heavy topic, right, 8 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: So take care of yourself, do what you need to do. 9 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: Today we are discussing the beautifully illustrated and written graphic 10 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: novel and memoir Wake The Hidden History of Women led 11 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: Slave Revolts, written by doctor Rebecca Hall and illustrated by 12 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: Hugo Martinez, and it depicts the difficult journey doctor Hall, 13 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: a former attorney and part time teacher an historian, embarked 14 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: upon to dig up the lost and rased histories of 15 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: slave revolts in the US led by black enslaved women. 16 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: It primarily focuses on revolts near New York, although there's 17 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: a bunch of other things going on as well. A 18 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: New York constructor Hall's hometown, so she was curious about it. 19 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: Are also slave revolts on ships, and it is interwoven 20 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 1: with how systemic racism that this country was built upon 21 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: obstructed her research all along the way, and how it 22 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: impacts her daily life personally and professionally, especially given that 23 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: her paternal grandparents were both born enslaved, And just as 24 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: she interacts with the lives of people she's teaching or 25 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: has taught, she delves into court documents, the logs of 26 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: ships carrying enslaved people, old letters, forensic evidence from bones, 27 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: and so many other things to track down these rased stories. 28 00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 1: And it's a really, really great depiction of this struggle 29 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: of a researcher and her storian to find these stories. 30 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: Doctor Hall is an activist, educator, and scholar. She has 31 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: a history serving as an attorney, yes for low income 32 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: tenants and those without homes. She is a writer and 33 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: a publisher, especially on topics of race and gender. And 34 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: the tag gun is the past is gone, but we 35 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: still live in its wake. And the title actually works 36 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: on a bunch of different levels, which is cool. The 37 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: art is very, very striking. It's beautifully done in shades 38 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: of black. It's just it's kind of hard to describe, 39 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: but just very very good. It's very beautiful and just 40 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: draws you in. Right. If you actually go and follow 41 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 1: doctor Rebecca Hall's Twitter, you can see examples from Hugo 42 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: Martinez's drawing and you'll see what it could be like. 43 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: I think she does have some excerpts in her Twitter 44 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: because the whole other thing Twitter try to suppress her 45 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 1: book as well, and it did the opposite, which is 46 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: amazing and I'm glad for because that's how we found it. 47 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: But yeah, if he wanted to see an example without 48 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: buying the book, you should buy the book. But it 49 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: is an amazing depiction, and he does an amazing job 50 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:14,519 Speaker 1: in really showing the depth and the strength within these 51 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: horrific conversations and tails, and he does it in a 52 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: way that's not sadistic. I guess is the best word, 53 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: which can happen pretty quickly in a story like that, 54 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: which is honest and true. He really makes sure to 55 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 1: exemplify the strengths of the enslaved people rather than showing 56 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: like the disgusting disasters and all of the horrifying acts 57 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: or horrifying things of what's happening against them, of abuse 58 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: and the assaulted murder that is talked about, rather than 59 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: anything else but yeah, it's a really great illustration, and 60 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: I think he does a great job in making sure 61 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: that what her words, her profound words, and her words 62 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: of a lot of depth and feeling that it's translated 63 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: on these pages. Yeah, and it was interesting. I read 64 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: a bunch of like interviews and articles about it and 65 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: about how this was a difficult project for a lot 66 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: of reasons, but one of them is, you know, how 67 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: do you capture kind of the pain of like being 68 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: this researcher and going through this and it's not like 69 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 1: a typical quote like graphic novel type thing, Like it's 70 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 1: you know, you go to a library and you're doing 71 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 1: this research and things like that. So it was very, 72 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: very interesting, but yeah, okay, very Basically, the plot follows 73 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 1: doctor Hall's decision to dig into justice and the history 74 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: of black women and deciding to pursue all the stories 75 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:36,159 Speaker 1: she could find about black women led slave revolts, and 76 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: it begins with her working as an attorney, questioning what 77 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: justice means in systems that are inherently racist and sexist, 78 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: kind of seeing it play out over and over again. 79 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: So she decides to work on a dissertation of women 80 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: led slave results, particularly in nearby New York. But in 81 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 1: search of documentation and evidence, she keeps running into scraps 82 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,160 Speaker 1: and dead ends, and she is determined to tell all 83 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: these hidden stories and is relentless. But this is all 84 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: happening while she is dealing with the fallout of slavery 85 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 1: and racism in doing this research, whether it's officials barring 86 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: her from accessing records for BS reasons, or confronting the 87 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: legacy of enslavement and racism in terms of her students 88 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: and her child, her own family, all of those things. 89 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 1: So definitely check it out. It's a it's not a 90 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 1: long read. I won't say it's like easy read, because 91 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 1: obviously it's very painful material, but it's like so powerful 92 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: and you should read it right, So we can say 93 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: it it's a short ready, but it doesn't have to 94 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: be if you're really focusing on the arts and the 95 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: graphics that bring out the story. As a plus, I 96 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: did listen to the audio version mistakenly thinking that that 97 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 1: was the actual book, but it's in a fantastic add on. 98 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: I believe they describe it it's the extended story, as 99 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: the story of the story as really about how it 100 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: came out and it's a full cast and it has 101 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: a lot of it's it's a full live cast, reading 102 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: as if you're there, and it's a play. You know, 103 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: we've done this often a fiction fiction type of audio, 104 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: and he does it with her fiction of the month, 105 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 1: But this is not exactly fiction. It is her adventure 106 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 1: in getting these So we don't see the results necessarily 107 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: of what we see here some of the things that 108 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: she was able to find finally, But what we do 109 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: is hear her struggle in her her journey into getting 110 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 1: to this point and releasing and writing this novel. So 111 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 1: it's a fantastic hearing. If you get a chance to 112 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: listen to it, you really really really really should because 113 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: it's a whole different experience for the same theme and 114 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 1: wonderful take that she has placed on it. Wait acting 115 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: because apparently they wanted like they're nominated for and I'm 116 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 1: gonna call it Audie Awards A U. D I E. 117 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: S Well, they're a finalist for the Audience twenty twenty 118 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: three award. It's a very cool. It's definitely well worth 119 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: the listen. It's nothing else to hear. What she went 120 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: through is amazing, m and it's kind of you know, 121 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: I gave the like plot rundown. It's kind of hard 122 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: to describe though, but essentially you're kind of you're getting 123 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: her version of like her researching these stories, and then 124 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: we get snippets of those stories, so it's sort of 125 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: juxtaposed against each other. So some themes I would say, 126 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: like at the beginning, you know, you see her working 127 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: as an attorney and having this question of like what 128 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: is justice in this white supremacist, sexist, racist society when 129 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: she's seeing like these outcomes over and over again, and 130 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: as I said, like she was an attorney for like 131 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: low income tenants, and so she's just kind of seeing 132 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: this over and over, kind of hearing this really racist 133 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: you know, advice of like well you have to kind 134 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: of behave in a certain ways so they don't think 135 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: you're the angry black woman in court and all of 136 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: those things, and having a lot of questions like well 137 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,679 Speaker 1: what does this mean? Right? I think it's very interesting, 138 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: and I know there's something that I really touched in 139 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: with her. She was talking about the fact that yes, 140 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: immediately they didn't assume that she was a lawyer, that 141 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: she was one of the plaintiffs or the defendants, and 142 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: having to be like, I'm the representative, they are pleased, 143 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:36,239 Speaker 1: let me buy, having to prove herself as the educated 144 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: person who with the law degree, unlike many of the 145 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,719 Speaker 1: clerks or any of them in there, or the deputies, 146 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: but then also having to give advice and seeing the 147 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: bias within course. And I've talked about those many times 148 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:55,239 Speaker 1: on Mike about my own experiences being in the courtroom 149 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: and talking to children and talking to about who they 150 00:08:57,800 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: were and how things will play out. And she talked 151 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: to one black woman who is one of her clients, 152 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 1: but she also has a white woman that lived in 153 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: the same building and had the same lawsuit. The white 154 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: woman got all this money and a black plaintiff. In 155 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: the audio, so I'm gonna say this in the audio, 156 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: the black woman was like, I feel like this is 157 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: good for me, this is amazing, Like they've already said 158 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 1: a precedent. And she's like, well, if you want to 159 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: get what she got, you're gonna have to do exactly 160 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: what she did, which is the white woman tears, pronouncing everything, 161 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: unusually being very quiet and polite in all these things. Well, 162 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: she probably would have been already, but like making it 163 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:37,439 Speaker 1: be like be white though, and when she when the 164 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: woman came to in front of this, she got half 165 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:41,719 Speaker 1: the amount that the white woman did. And that's how 166 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: it goes. And then having the regret of telling this 167 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: woman her client be white, be more white, be this, 168 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: because this is how the justice system works. And I've 169 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: had this moment where I've told young black kids, Hey, 170 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: I hate to tell you this, and this is gonna 171 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: be the gods on his truth. And I don't want hate. 172 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: I don't look at this, but because this system is 173 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: already set up to have you fail, they have already 174 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: had bias against you. It doesn't matter before you walked in, 175 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,839 Speaker 1: whether it's for whatever want not this specific group of people. 176 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 1: And there were specific people that I would have to 177 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: look out for for certain types of lawyers, certain types 178 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: of judges, and who was going to do what and 179 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: who had the racial bias and trying to teach the 180 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: kid to play the game instead of trying to change 181 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: the system. And I know that's kind of the beginning 182 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 1: of why she starts really going into teaching and then 183 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 1: really going into research. And I hate that too, that 184 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: I hate that I was a part of that. And 185 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: it's a non black person. It's even worse coming from me, 186 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: and I hate that I was a part of that system, 187 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: but doing what I could do at that moment. And 188 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: she talks about that, having that guilt and playing into 189 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: the system and then coming out of it and trying 190 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:47,599 Speaker 1: to break that system. And then, of course this is 191 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 1: a whole different conversation, but it hit me real hard 192 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 1: when she was talking about this and knowing exactly what 193 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,959 Speaker 1: she meant. And of course I feel like my guilt 194 00:10:56,040 --> 00:11:00,199 Speaker 1: is definitely different and my result was different, and that 195 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: in the seeing that at how ugly a gross it 196 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: really is. Yeah, Yeah, And we do see doctor Hall 197 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,959 Speaker 1: kind of grappling with that throughout it, even in her 198 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: teaching and her research all that stuff. And so she's 199 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: seeing this as an attorney, decides to get her dissertation, 200 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: decides to focus on slave revolts led by black women, 201 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: and there's a quote in there about kind of being 202 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: haunted by the legacy of slavery. Quote, sometimes when you 203 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: think you're hunting down the past, the past is hunting you. 204 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,679 Speaker 1: I was born to tell the stories. So she does 205 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: describe that. She does describe this feeling of like I 206 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:47,719 Speaker 1: need to find these stories that have been erased and 207 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: I need to tell them and they are a part 208 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: of my life and my history and the history that's 209 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 1: shaping all of this. And it, like I said, it 210 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: is a really really excellent depiction of what it's like 211 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:05,079 Speaker 1: doing historical research. This is like, you know, we've researched 212 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: for this show, but nowhere near this level. Right, So 213 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: this is from articles I've read from historians about it, 214 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: saying that this is a very excellent depiction of what 215 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: it's like to do historical research. And that did set 216 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 1: apart from most graphic novels. Like I said, it was 217 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: kind of a new take on this idea, and that's 218 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: one of the reasons she talks about, which she also 219 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 1: at the back of the at least the copy I had, 220 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 1: there was a Q and A with her and she 221 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 1: was describing why she decided to do a graphic novel, 222 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: and that was one of the reasons, was like, this 223 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: will be a new way to really showcase illustrate what 224 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: it's like to be a historian doing this stuff, right, 225 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: especially when it comes to the limited amount and we're 226 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:51,839 Speaker 1: going to talk more about this, especially when it comes 227 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: to the limited amount of information, the amount of information 228 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 1: that was a race and the amount of information people 229 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 1: want to hide, like the like the odds are stacked 230 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: against her for so many reasons, and her traveling all 231 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: over the world she really does trying to get this 232 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: and hunt down this information. Uh sounds exhausting but inspiring. 233 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: Real exhausting, exhausting. Yes, honestly, I was like, this feels like, um, 234 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: I do love those scenes in movies where they're doing 235 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,079 Speaker 1: the montage and they're like, I gotta go here, I 236 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 1: gotta go here, I gotta go here. It was like that, like, 237 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: I feel like they should make a show about how 238 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: she did this. Yeah, she's done the audio and it's 239 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 1: time for a show. Now, I agree, I agree, But yeah, 240 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 1: it's it showcases like the traveling of information, because this 241 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: is she's looking at you know, before the internet obviously, 242 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 1: but so like on boats or like where did this 243 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: information end up after it was on this boat? The 244 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: thought process of like, well, this piece of information is missing, 245 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: where could it be? Like all of those things, um, 246 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: and then yeah, this real pain and frustration of the 247 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: research of finding something like a total dead end or 248 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: something completely erased and like you'll never know, you'll never 249 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 1: know what happened. So it was it excellently depicted that. 250 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: And then there was also just the obviously like the 251 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: history of slavery and seeing the aftermath of slavery everywhere, 252 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: and that goes back to yes, this pain of the 253 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: loss of history, of a rasure of the question of 254 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: what gets recorded. And so for instance, like one of 255 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: the first things she does is she finds like these names, 256 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: and she finds very brief snippets about them, is trying 257 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: to piece together their story, and then in the end 258 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: it's just a race. Then she can't find it. And 259 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: the quote, here's a quote, I can't find her. I'll 260 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: never know what happened to Sarah or Abigail, right, and 261 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: this one specifically to a revolt that happened on the 262 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: state grounds, because we do talk a lot more about 263 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: ships and the travel when they're see but in the 264 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: transatlantic slave trade, but where they were talking specifically about 265 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: a couple of herbles that have happened where they did 266 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: sentence people to death in slave people's to death and 267 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: or jailed, and this conversation about how it got lost 268 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: and she was trying to find out what happened to 269 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: these women who were the ones because they just became 270 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: numbers essentially, and the pain of them just being numbered 271 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: and being property in itself is horrendous. And also knowing 272 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: and we're gonna talk about this is like her family, 273 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: immediate family members essentially had experienced something to this and 274 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: that that was not too far from her generationally, But 275 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: like in the conversation that she was trying to discover 276 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: who did this, who was this? Who who did this? 277 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: And having a few names to the many that died, 278 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: and then not even having the correct names and not 279 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: even being able to like finding some information just enough 280 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: that you know partially what happened, but not the ending 281 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: and the trauma of not being able to have resolved 282 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: in something that heartbreaking and something that is so triggering 283 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 1: in itself that that she had to go on this 284 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: journey without any resolution, right. And that's another thing that 285 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: I thought this book did an excellent job at is 286 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: really showing the physical impact of researching something so horrendous, 287 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: of researching something that directly impacts you, that is in 288 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: your family, of like she experiences nausea, She just talks 289 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: about like pain in her body and being so exhausted 290 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: and her mental health and having these questions and like 291 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: these physical things that are happening to her because of 292 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: this research she is doing, which I think is really 293 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: important to recognize. And then there's also several instances of 294 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: her trying to do this research very like legitimately doing 295 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: nothing wrong, but these white officials blocking access to documents. 296 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: So we see it in the United States when I 297 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: believe it's like an archive she's trying to go to 298 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: and they're like, no, no, no, you didn't go through 299 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: the right procedures. We can't let you in. And she's like, 300 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: but I kind of did, and also have a flatland. 301 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: They're like no, no, no, no way. And then she 302 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:21,359 Speaker 1: does travel to the United Kingdom and it's like, you know, 303 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 1: trying to get some documents from museum, and the officials, 304 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 1: the white officials, they're very like, oh no, we don't 305 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,679 Speaker 1: have any. We were good at abolition, don't you remember, 306 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:36,679 Speaker 1: very very defensive. And then she goes to visit Lloyd's 307 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: of London and try to get their archives. And Lloyd's 308 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 1: of Blunton got started insuring slave ships and still around right, 309 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: and you know, just they just flat out refused, and 310 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: she told them what she was doing, and here's why 311 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: all this, like it's totally legitimate, They had no reason 312 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 1: not to let her get that information that they absolutely refuse. 313 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: So this is another thing she's constantly fighting with to 314 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,439 Speaker 1: get to these stories, of which many of them she 315 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 1: might finally get that information, and it's just not there 316 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: right And that's I think that's part of the reason, 317 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:16,439 Speaker 1: and I know she talks about this, is that the 318 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: focus is partially on her trying to get this research 319 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: is because of the way she was railroaded, essentially by 320 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: white people who may even claim to be allies. Like 321 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: she talks about how again she comes to the UK 322 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 1: and she's like, everybody's so nice in comparison to what 323 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 1: happened in the US, but the black community in the 324 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: UK or like they're just being nice to you because 325 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 1: you know you're they're trying to play nice while you're here, 326 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: because you're a visitor essentially, and that it is not 327 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 1: that wonderful as they would want it to be, and 328 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: it make it seem and we've talked about bad the 329 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,159 Speaker 1: different biases that happen in different areas and regions, and 330 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,439 Speaker 1: just because it seems nice doesn't mean that's the truth 331 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: of it all. Just because there may not be a 332 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:57,880 Speaker 1: focus on some of the things that happen in other 333 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: places doesn't mean that discrimination and race isn't there. But 334 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: I really do think it's interesting that we talk about 335 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: people who make money, which insurance companies have definitely been 336 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: reamed over the cold as they should be continuously, because 337 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:11,479 Speaker 1: it is an ugly, ugly trade in business, and it's 338 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: fairly racist and discriminatory today. So knowing that that they're 339 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 1: trying to hide some of that history that absolutely was 340 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: making money off of the backs of enslaved people and 341 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: their deaths and their demise and their murder, all of that, 342 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: and their profiting and the white people who profited off 343 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 1: of that. It's a horrendous and ugly business, which to 344 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: a certain degree they still do that today. That's a 345 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: whole different conversation. Don't get me started, because you know 346 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: I will, But that what we see in her conversation 347 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: is that it's so hard to even get past those 348 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,719 Speaker 1: blocks that has already been set up by white supremacy 349 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,120 Speaker 1: from way back when, from the beginning, essentially for her 350 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: to find information, there hasn't been much progress and breaking 351 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: down the white supremacy to tell the truth about the 352 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 1: enslaved people and the bolts that happened, right, And on 353 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: top of that, another thing that she touches on is 354 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: these myths around, like you know, enslaved people didn't resist. 355 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: Are other stories that are basically just deflecting the blame 356 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: from anywhere where it should be, which was the white 357 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 1: slavers and people propping it up. But that being so important, 358 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: It's like this clarity when telling the story of enslavement 359 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 1: and why it was one of the one of the 360 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 1: reasons why she wanted to do it even though it 361 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: was so painful, when it was so difficult, and there 362 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: are all these things in her way, and she did 363 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:42,360 Speaker 1: find some facts that sort of we're telling her like, oh, yes, 364 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: I knew I was onto something. One of them is 365 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 1: one and ten ships of enslaved people experienced a revolt, 366 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 1: and here's a quote. The more women on board of 367 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 1: slave ship, the more likely a revolt. So again, where 368 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 1: is that history. She's like, found this, but there's no 369 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: the stories are there. And one of the reasons that 370 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: she and others think that this is is in part 371 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 1: because of gendered stereotypes that women aren't a threat, so 372 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:13,399 Speaker 1: they were forced to stay on deck near weapons and 373 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: also where they could be sexually abused, but this allowed 374 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: this was the way that they could lead these revolts, right, 375 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: And she talks about the fact that many of times 376 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 1: that the white slave version, those on the board on 377 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: ships really were naive, thinking that women wouldn't do anything, 378 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: and so therefore they just really let them be. Of course, 379 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: I talk about the horrendousness of the activities that happened 380 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,879 Speaker 1: on board when they were released and why it was 381 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 1: so horrific, and of course that that to me is 382 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: like that, Yeah. A lot of the conversation that she 383 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 1: has in the Bugs is that many of the enslaved 384 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 1: at that time would rather die than go into this 385 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,400 Speaker 1: horrific situation that they know is even more awful than 386 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: could be told, and that that that that there was 387 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 1: no other options, knowing that in the sea they would die, 388 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,160 Speaker 1: but that would be much better than what they would 389 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: have to suffer in the mainland and then in the 390 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 1: colonies at that time. And we saw that during the 391 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: revolts in many of things that they talk about Indian 392 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: sam and Um the unknown woman in the beginning of 393 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,120 Speaker 1: the book, which one of the big revolts, and they 394 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: talked about how she could not find this woman and 395 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: who she was or where she came from, but both 396 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: were prosecuted because she had gone and her and m Sam, 397 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: who I believe was a native person who was enslaved 398 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: as well, that they would rather die than continue the 399 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:50,360 Speaker 1: way they had, and they they took out the entire 400 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,159 Speaker 1: family because they knew if one one was alive that 401 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: they would still be under ownership and would still be 402 00:22:55,920 --> 00:23:00,239 Speaker 1: horrifically abused and enslaved. So all had to go, and 403 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: it was an interesting In my audio version, they do 404 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: have an enacted They enact the whole story, and it's 405 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 1: interesting how they hear and what they even bring the 406 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: children of the white plantation owners. They have that as 407 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 1: a part of the conversation and then have the conversation 408 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: between them about why this is so important. We also 409 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: find the gendered prosecution. Essentially, the woman is burned at 410 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: the stake while the man was hung, and it was 411 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 1: during that time that this had been where the women 412 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: were under property, whether they are white or of a 413 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: different race, they were under the property of their husband 414 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: as well, so therefore as property, this was treason to 415 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 1: go at. Instead of just murder, it was treason. So 416 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: they had a different type of punishment, which I found 417 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,360 Speaker 1: interesting as well. And apparently this was the revolt, according 418 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 1: to doctor Hall's research and the book that became a 419 00:23:55,760 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: whole decree about how to keep revolting enslave people in 420 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: line quote unquote and had a specific punishment for them, 421 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:07,479 Speaker 1: and that was the beginning of prosecuting insurrectionists as they 422 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 1: called them. Yeah, And then to go back to your point, 423 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: there is a pretty upsetting and moving scene where doctor 424 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 1: Hall is teaching. She's recommending Beloved Tony Morrison's Beloved, and 425 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: one of the students comes up to her afterwards it's like, 426 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: I already read it, Can I please not read it again? 427 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: Like it was great, I'm glad I read it, but 428 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: it's very difficult read. And later doctor Hall is at 429 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,880 Speaker 1: her home and kind of looking at her young son 430 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 1: and thinking, like having this really emotional moment of I can't. 431 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: She's struggling to come to turn with wanting a child, 432 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: thinking it would be better for a child to be 433 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: dead rather than be living slaves. Right because of the book, 434 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 1: And that's just another example of that trauma, that racial trauma, 435 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,400 Speaker 1: intergenerational trauma, and the things that she in her own 436 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: professional and personal life. It has to deal with, right. Yeah, 437 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: And along with that, they do talk about those who 438 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: are raped by the plantation owners and the colonizers. I'm 439 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 1: gonna call him colonizer because I don't want to calm 440 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: anything else at that point in time, and how they 441 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: did not want to bring that to life essentially, which 442 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: was done out of hate and anger and like like 443 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: abuse in ownership in all of these things as a 444 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: way of power to control power over women. They've been 445 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 1: talked about the specific woman who was a leader of 446 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: the area and how they send homage to her and 447 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 1: revolted in her name because what they did to her, 448 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 1: they pretty much worked her to death, as the phrase 449 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: which is seen often in that conversation, and how she 450 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: had been someone that had saved so many of the 451 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: unsaved people at that point in time, and how they 452 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: all did it in her name. And then one of 453 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: the things that she helped with was trying to get 454 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: rid of unwanted pregnancies by rape and sexual assault, which 455 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 1: was all too common. Yeah, And that is something that 456 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 1: was present in a lot of the in this book, 457 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: was black women honoring and supporting other black women coming together, 458 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: coming together for these revolts are coming together for something 459 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 1: like that, and then you get to see it on 460 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 1: a really personal level when there's almost this like memory 461 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: of doctor Hall reaching out to the memory of her 462 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 1: grandmother about surviving enslavement. And it's a really beautiful like 463 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,159 Speaker 1: back and forth that they have where doctor Hall is 464 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: just trying to understand her grandmother and what happened to 465 00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 1: her and her life and make it relate to what 466 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:02,919 Speaker 1: she's going through and what she's trying to do in 467 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: these stories she's trying to tell. It's very very moving 468 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: moving scene, right. She uses her as a guidance, and 469 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: I loved every bit of that, like praying for her 470 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: grandmother's spirit to guide her to these truths because she 471 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: was having so many roadblocks, but knowing that this is 472 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: something that she was supposed to do, that this is 473 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 1: something that's been calling to her, that all the rejection 474 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 1: and that all the racism that she had dealt with 475 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: in our path while it came to teaching, and all 476 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: the pushbacks while she was researching, that it was for 477 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,640 Speaker 1: a purpose, and that her grandmother, who who was finally 478 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: freed through all that inslatement and was the major patriarch 479 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: and push for not for only for her the family, 480 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: but her father specifically, and there's a beautiful exchange where 481 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 1: we see a flashback between her father and his mother 482 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,239 Speaker 1: and his father and how they really grew. I think 483 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,919 Speaker 1: they were part of the big Great migration because they 484 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: had been threatened bodily harm and then constantly taken after 485 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 1: They were talking about having to deal with the clue 486 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: Klux Klan by one of the great grandfathers and how 487 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 1: he dealt with it and what that looked like and 488 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 1: really trying to start over, unfortunately doing what they had 489 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: to do in order to survive, but still having the 490 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 1: spirit of the grandmother who really kept that family alive 491 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: with her hope and her obviously power and constant work 492 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: to provide for her family. But it was a beautiful exchange, 493 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: and in this conversation of all the darkness of light 494 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 1: growing out of that darkness, Yeah, it really was. And 495 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: then the book does a really excellent job of just 496 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: pointing out all of these things and how they are 497 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 1: still in present in our society today. So it ties 498 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: it together with current police violence against the black population, 499 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: just like all these current issues that are from that 500 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 1: we can't like erase as much as people try to. 501 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: The history of that like it's still here. It's we're 502 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 1: still feeling all of these impacts, and black people especially 503 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 1: are still feeling all of these impacts. So it's a 504 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: really good like tying together of why it matters that 505 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 1: she wrote this, that she did this research on all 506 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 1: of that, and that we all know it and how 507 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: it is still here hasn't gone away. Yeah, and obviously 508 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 1: with things like her book that again kept getting suppressed 509 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: on social media. As today we've talked about the conservative 510 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: pushback to learn these truths because people are afraid of 511 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: what they will look like, and which is exactly what 512 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: we talked about why people are blocking archival things because 513 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: I don't want to be responsible or they don't even 514 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: want to be shown to be even associated with that light. 515 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 1: Which I found it interesting because I had a moment 516 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: of thinking about what happened with the Nazis and the 517 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 1: Holocaust and how Germany's response, and we've talked about this 518 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: before was completely different. Of course, there's still people who 519 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: want to try to deny it and hide things, but 520 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 1: the information is a little more scene, and that's an 521 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: interesting look at what has happened when things can actually 522 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: be learned well hopefully people don't make the same mistakes 523 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,959 Speaker 1: again or watch out for warning signs, and what happens 524 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: when we try to ignore history. And I find that 525 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 1: interesting that we know so much less of something that 526 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 1: was so prevalent, not even that long ago, that that 527 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: happened to so many groups of people across the world. 528 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: And this is unfortunate that she had so many roadblocks 529 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: that she can't even give it the proper credit in names, 530 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: but has to fill in the stories with some of 531 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: the fact that she got which are amazing, and the 532 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: art is amazing. It really just brings it to life 533 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: in a way in a different perspective. But again that 534 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: the fact that we have to struggle to get to 535 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: these points, and we've talked about it before, how little 536 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: history that we know of those marginalized communities, and how 537 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 1: often they do try to hide it. And hopefully we 538 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: will get more and more people who do do the 539 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: hard work like this, and we are so grateful for that. 540 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: We would continue to make sure it is being spread 541 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 1: that so it won't die out. Absolutely, Yeah, I can't 542 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: recommend it enough obviously, Like the questions in the back 543 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: are really great to her answers to the questions in 544 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: the back really good the audio that Samantha is mentioning, 545 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of stuff here to like really 546 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: paint a full picture of what all of the difficulties 547 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 1: of this getting made. But it's so important and it's 548 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: so well done. So can't recommend enough. Go check it out, 549 00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: Go buy copies, do it now? Yes, yes, yes, yes um. 550 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: In the meantime, if you have any suggestions for what 551 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: are next book called pick should be, you can emails 552 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You 553 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter at Momstup podcast, or on 554 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 1: Instagram and TikTok at Stuff I've Never Told You. We're 555 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: also on YouTube now if you want to check it 556 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 1: out that way. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina. 557 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 1: Thank you, Christina, and thanks to you for listening Stuff 558 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: and Never Told You protection of iHeartRadio. For more podcast 559 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: from my Heart Radio, you can check out the iHeartRadio app, 560 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: Apple podcast wherever you listen to your favorite shows.