1 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savor production of I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 1: I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we 3 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: have an interview for you with the host of The 4 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: Sport Full Dan Pashman. Yes, and you know what, I 5 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: have a very big regret about this interview. Oh yeah, 6 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: I actually think it's a really good thing. But we 7 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: didn't ask him about sports. Oh my heck, we didn't. 8 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: And we had that whole we found that whole website 9 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: that had those like sad poems about like how sports 10 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,840 Speaker 1: are useless. Yeah, yeah, like lamenting the fate of the sport, 11 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 1: and not a single sport question was asked. Yeah. This, 12 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: we really fell down on the job. I bet he 13 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: gets that question a lot though. So it's pretty really good, 14 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: but it haunts I just want you all to know 15 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: it haunts my food podcast your brain that I didn't 16 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: bring that up. I think the only thing haunting my 17 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: brain about that interview was a man like I was 18 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: having a rough day and I felt like I wasn't 19 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: being human the entire time. Like do you ever feel 20 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: like that? Do you ever feel like you're like you're 21 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: talking hypothetically but you're not sure if what you're saying, 22 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: is coming across as like normal human conversation? Yes, I 23 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: not only do I feel that way over on stuff 24 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 1: I've never told you the podcast we just did an 25 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: episode about that. Really. Yeah, how interesting it is to 26 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: be in a medium where being a normal conversation, well 27 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:29,559 Speaker 1: not normal necessarily, but conversational human is sort of the job. Yeah, 28 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 1: and what happens on days where you know that's just 29 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: not it's just for whatever reason, not firing off, not 30 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: how you're feeling. Yeah, well I think I like to 31 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:44,320 Speaker 1: think that that's what gives us our charm. I like 32 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: I feel like your voice kind of indicate how you said, 33 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: charm captures our charm. There's sort of a note of 34 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: panic in there at all was to say it was 35 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: a delightful interview. I thought it was very fun. Oh 36 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: my goodness, yes I had. I had such a good 37 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: time talking with Dan. It was a very bright spot 38 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: in my day. And so so yeah, without further Ado, 39 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:12,399 Speaker 1: let's get into the interview. You're joining us today, Dan, 40 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: We welcome to the show. Dan Pashiman of The Sporkfell. Hey, 41 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: thanks you guys, Thanks for having me of course, Um, yeah, 42 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: and you're you're you're joining us because the Sportfull is 43 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: ten years old. Yes, it seems like just yesterday. No 44 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: it doesn't. Actually it feels like twenty. But anyway, um, yes, 45 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: it's an exciting milestone. Hu um and uh you all 46 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: started out um so, so savor Is is a little 47 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: bit younger than that. Annie and I have both been 48 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: in the podcasting space for just about that long gosh, 49 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: but not in the food podcasting space. But it seems 50 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: like y'all started up The Sportful with a very similar 51 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: idea to why we wanted to start savor to kind 52 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: of like like remove food from from this pedestal or 53 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: like monolith that it seems to exist in and popular 54 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: culture and kind of make it more accessible because it 55 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: is accessible and it's worth understanding. Yeah, I mean the 56 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: motto of the Sporkfull is it's not for food ease, 57 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: it's for eaters. Um. And so you know, it's a 58 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: big part of what we do. And you know, yeah, 59 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: I I I'm not a chef. I waited tables for 60 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: a couple of years, but I'm not maybe an above 61 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: average home cook, but I'm not any great expert on food. 62 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: I um don't really care about celebrity chefs. I kind 63 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,519 Speaker 1: of am very turned off by chef worship. I don't 64 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: care who has the hot new restaurant. I'm not gonna 65 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: wait for a table there or anywhere. I wanted my 66 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: food now. Um. And so you know, I started the 67 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: Sporkfull because right because I feel like there's a lot 68 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: of people who love to eat and are passionate about 69 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: food and maybe even passionate about cooking, but don't are 70 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: not interested in food as a status symbol, are turned 71 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: off by that world, don't care about fancy chefs. In fact, 72 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: for that, I think it was. I think it was 73 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: it was four or five years of the sport Full 74 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: before I interviewed my first chef. I had a rule 75 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: for years. I was like, I'm not interviewing any chefs. 76 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do a food podcast without interviewing chefs. That 77 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: was my goal. And I made it a good four 78 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: or five years, and then I The first chef I 79 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 1: had on was this guy named Tyler Cord, who had 80 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 1: written a book all about broccoli and cooking and cooking 81 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 1: and eating broccoli and how much he loved broccoli and 82 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: his restaurant in New York. He was famous for a 83 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: broccoli sub and that all just seems so weird and 84 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 1: ridiculous that I was like, all right, I'll let this 85 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 1: guy in, Like he just seems too quirky. He's obviously not, 86 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: you know, not a snob. And what I learned from 87 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: talking to him, and then eventually under the wall came down, 88 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:40,919 Speaker 1: I was like, all right, it turns out that actually, 89 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 1: like a lot of chefs are pretty down to earth 90 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: and they have the same kind of obsessive I for 91 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:47,840 Speaker 1: detail that I have when it comes to eating, you know, 92 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: like I love to nerd out on the details of 93 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: the eating experience, just from the eater's perspective, not from 94 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: the fancy chefs perspective. And so it turns out that 95 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 1: actually a lot of chefs think about food the same 96 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: way I do. Oh yeah, I would say that. Well, 97 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: so I'm biased because my father was a chef um 98 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: or a cook or you know, like a guy who 99 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: stood around in kitchen smoking too many cigarettes however you 100 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: really want to phrase it, um but uh but you know, so, 101 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: so I've got a little bit of bias there. But 102 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:16,679 Speaker 1: I would say the chefs are some of the demos 103 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: down to earth humans you could ever possibly meet. Um sometimes, yeah, 104 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 1: I mean, I I don't know, I haven't met that 105 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: many of the super super fanciest ones, but yeah, I mean, 106 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: you know, I I think it's one of those funny things, 107 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: like you know, they spend all all day at work, 108 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: cooking these elaborate dishes and taking care of other people, 109 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: and then really all they want at the end of 110 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: the day is just like to eat something like very 111 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: simple and homey and have someone else make it for 112 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 1: them so they don't have to do it and they're 113 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: very happy. So yeah, yeah, yeah, my by the time 114 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: you got home, my dad was down for cooking like 115 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: macaroni and cheese was and that was essentially it. I'm 116 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: sure people assume that you're you must have eaten really 117 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: well at home, but as your dad was a chef, yeah, 118 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, when when he did go all 119 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 1: out for holidays or something, um, those those few holidays 120 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: that he wasn't working, it would be something um technically 121 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: beautiful um, but but it was it was so rare, 122 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, like because usually yeah, he would 123 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: get home and he would just be like, I don't know, man, 124 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: like can we can we order like a like a 125 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: Philly cheese steak? Or something like, what's what's going on? 126 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: For sure? Um? And And you know, I do think 127 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: about it sometimes. I'm not totally positive because he had 128 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 1: he had entered into retirement, um starting maybe like five 129 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: or ten years back, and uh And I wonder sometimes 130 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: if he had grown up in in the world of 131 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: um of of of this pop culture fascination with with 132 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 1: chefs and restaurants, um and and the whole instagram ability 133 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: of everything, if if he would have survived in that environment, right, like, 134 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: what you would you have survived? What do you have thrived? 135 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: What have you done better or worse or the same. Yeah, 136 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: it is interesting to me the degree to which Instagram 137 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: influences food. You know that there are restaurants now, I 138 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: forget which magazine it was. Did there like, you know, 139 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:15,119 Speaker 1: ten best new restaurants of the year, and the number 140 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: one was this restaurant in Oklahoma City. And the guy 141 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: who wrote the column basically said, you know, I wouldn't 142 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: even gone to Oklahoma City except for the fact that 143 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: I saw people sharing the food from this restaurant on Instagram, 144 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: and enough people shared it and it looked interesting enough 145 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: that I decided to go there and try it. And 146 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 1: now I'm naming it the best new restaurant in America. 147 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: And so you see that the power of that. But 148 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: so so I went to here, like that's great. It's 149 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: great that the restaurant in Oklahoma City, can you know, 150 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: can get noticed by you know, big national media that 151 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: are like predominantly on the coasts. So that's a good thing. Um. 152 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: The downside is that, like, um, you know, it puts 153 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: a lot of focus on the way, look, the presentation 154 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: of food has always been part of food, but but 155 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: so much onus on how does the food look in 156 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: a photograph? Um, And I think it also leaves to 157 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: a lot of sort of gimmickery and restaurants like you know, 158 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: let's bring someone out from the kitchen do some kind 159 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: of song and dance that people will will put a 160 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: video on Instagram. Remember Salt Bay. That was cool for 161 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: like five minutes. That's the best thing about COVID is 162 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: it probably shut that guy down, Like this guy who 163 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: comes out and like you know, does some sort of 164 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: dance and salts your steak at the table and double 165 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: for it, right yeah, I mean, like I don't understand 166 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: why that's like it was like and everyone instagrams didn't 167 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:34,199 Speaker 1: go crazy, but um, so some of that stuff is 168 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: kind of grating. Yeah, yeah, I now it feels like 169 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 1: a ritual where whenever I used to get when I 170 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: used to go out with people, the food comes and 171 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: then there's like a four minute like lighting and switching 172 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: of like you no frame it like this, And I 173 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: kind of it's odd because I work in this world, 174 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: but I'm like, can we just eat it? We just 175 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: eat it right well, and and then we documented. Then 176 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: you have these people who are right like also like 177 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: the flashes going off and come on, like no picture 178 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: of the flash is gonna look good and like, but 179 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 1: restaurateurs don't have to think about the lighting because they 180 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: can't make it too dim because then people can't get 181 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: you know, like you need people to be able to 182 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: take good pictures of your food and share it because 183 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: that's like marketing. You need that. But it also means 184 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: it's certain dishes like Stew's um and a lot of 185 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: sort of like saucy dishes UM. I had this conversation 186 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:26,199 Speaker 1: with Professor Christian end ray Is to share the n 187 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: y U Food Studies Department, and he was talking about 188 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: how a lot of South Asian food UM that tastes 189 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:36,959 Speaker 1: incredible doesn't always photograph as well. You know, like a 190 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: like a bowl of doll or something like that that 191 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: can be so good and it's such a classic staple. 192 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 1: You gotta really gonna know what you're doing to make 193 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 1: it look captivating in a photo. And that's sort of 194 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,839 Speaker 1: that sucks because doll. Everybody should be eating more doll. Yeah, yeah, 195 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: we shouldn't need to have gold leafed doll in order 196 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 1: to make it more right, right, there shouldn't need to 197 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: be like a guy. You don't need the Indian Salt 198 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: Bay coming out from the back to like throw termeric 199 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: in from five feet away for it to be good. Like, 200 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: just make some good doll. Let's just become a hit job. 201 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:17,079 Speaker 1: I'm that guy had to come out out. Anyone who 202 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: star rises that quickly is bound to fall. We're gonna 203 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:26,959 Speaker 1: get hate mail from Salt Bay and I love it. Right, 204 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: you can get like a packet of like anthrax coated no. Well, 205 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: I guess speaking of you this, you've been in this 206 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: for ten years and you talked about how you know 207 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: you lost You had these radio jobs and opportunities and 208 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: you were trying to side, well, what should I do 209 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: a podcast on and you said idiosyncrasies. What's uh. I 210 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: think how you phrased it in your letter I'm very 211 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 1: interested by. But I'm just curious how it feels to 212 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:58,599 Speaker 1: have gone from that to having people asking you to 213 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: weigh in on rat versus the burrito, and then having 214 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: someone claim that you don't have the expertise to even right. Right. No, 215 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: I mean it's it's the whole thing is crazy. Like 216 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: I mean, I started, you know, it was always my 217 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: dream to host a radio show that became host my 218 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: own podcast, but I kept getting laid off from jobs 219 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: in radio. So I said, I'll start my own podcast 220 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 1: as a ten years ago and at least no one 221 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 1: can cancel it but me. Um, And slowly but surely 222 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,719 Speaker 1: it's grown, you know. But yeah, I I I. When 223 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: I first started, it was just like, let's just obsess 224 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: over the most ridiculous food minutia in search of new 225 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 1: and better ways to eat. Like I spent twenty minutes 226 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: talking about, you know, the ideal surface area to volume 227 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:38,199 Speaker 1: ratio of ice cubes and what the best shape of 228 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: ice cubes is for different purposes. Since then, the show 229 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: has grown and evolved, I think, Um, but that was 230 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 1: what it was in the early days. And I'm the 231 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: kind of person who would think about these things even 232 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:51,959 Speaker 1: though I was not a chef at all, Like I 233 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: wouldn't think about the ice cubes of thinking about what's 234 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: the best bite? If you take a sandwich and you 235 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: cut it on the diagonal, like like a white bread sandwich, 236 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: you cut it out on the diagonal, you have that 237 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: triangle in your hand, what's the best first bite? Should 238 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: you take it from one of the acute angles? You do? 239 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: You take it from the hypot news? You know, and 240 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: and I don't know there's a right or wrong. There's 241 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: pros and constant both, but it's sure is a fun 242 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: debate to have. Um. So these are my idiosyncracies. These 243 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: are the things that I think about. You know that 244 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: I was like, this might be a podcast, and so 245 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: it grew and you know, I also gonna come from 246 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: a long line of lawyers. So it became opinions about 247 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,199 Speaker 1: you know, is a burrito a rap I say yes? 248 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: Is a hot dog of sandwich? That's a bit of 249 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: a tired debate now, But but I was in the 250 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: early I was in the early part of that was 251 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:35,959 Speaker 1: a four front. I was in the forefront that the 252 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 1: hot dog sandwich debate, I'll have you know right, yes, 253 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 1: I don't think the responsibility for that. Um, I do 254 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: believe a hot dog is a sandwich. And so people 255 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 1: just love these debates. And yeah, like somehow, I guess 256 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 1: because I was one of the few people having these 257 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: debates early on, I was an expert by default because 258 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: there was nobody else talking about it. Um. I remember 259 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: when I was Giancarlo stanton On a baseball star I 260 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: think was in the Marlins at the time. He was 261 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: photographed taking like a four bar kit cat and he 262 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 1: bit into the whole thing. He bit across the perforations, 263 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: and the internet went insane and other baseball players were 264 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: giving him a hard time about it. And like Fox 265 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: five New York sent a news truck to my house, 266 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: like forty five miles outside New York City, just set 267 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: up a camera crew in my living room to get 268 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: my comment on this approach to eating a kit cat. 269 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: And I was like, this is really out of hand, 270 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: Like I don't know, there's got to be more important 271 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: news out there, but the is a burrito rap one 272 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:41,680 Speaker 1: that one I got hired to be an expert witness. 273 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: I mean this is it was. It was hilarious. So 274 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: long story short, is this like strip mall in Canada, Waterloo, Waterloo, Ontario, Canada. 275 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: And so often when a restaurant gets a lease in 276 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 1: a strip mall, there'll be a clause in the lease. 277 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: In the case, it was a peda place that said, uh, 278 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:01,679 Speaker 1: it's called the PA pit. And in the least it 279 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: said that the landlord won't least space to any other 280 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: restaurant that would be too similar, that would compete. And 281 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: in their case, the least said they won't least space 282 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: to another restaurant that sells wraps. So the PA place 283 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: at the least that said, the landlord promises not to 284 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: give any other space to anyone who sells wraps. Well, 285 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: the landlord gave a lease to Holy Guacamole Burritos, and 286 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: the PA pit said, wait a second, burritos or wraps. 287 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: And the landlord said, no, they're not, and the pit said, 288 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 1: yes they are. We're taking your butt to court. And 289 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: I got hired to write an affidavit let's worn affidavit 290 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 1: in which I argued that burritos are in fact raps 291 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: and um the opposing sides rejoinder their response to My 292 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: affidavit was we don't think Passiman is an expert. So 293 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: but I'll have you know that the courts took our 294 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: side and we won. Okay. I was about to say, 295 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: did you already, like, did you do research to come 296 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: to this or did you already have like a knee jerk? No? 297 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: I think I had. I had been making this case before. 298 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: And I want to be very clear because people get upset, 299 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: especially people who come from from like southern California or 300 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: northern any part of California really well where burritos are 301 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: especially a big deal or that Text mex burritos are 302 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: a little different, but so but the point is, like 303 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 1: people who are passionate about burritos taking as an insult 304 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: for burrit to be called a rap because they think 305 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: of wrap and think of like an airport sandwich wrap, 306 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: you know, like like which is And I'm not this 307 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: is not a statement on quality. I'm not. I'm not 308 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: talking about quality. Yes, the vast majority of burritos are 309 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: better than pretty much all sandwich wraps. Um, It's just 310 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: about structure. What is how is the food made? And 311 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: if you're gonna take some sort of flower tortilla and 312 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: wrap anything inside it, you are making a rap. Some 313 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: wraps are better than others, but they're still all rap 314 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: at the end of the day. I can hear the lawyer. Yea, yeah. 315 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: My grandfather was a judge, my dad was a lawyer, 316 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: My brother is a lawyer. I'm sort of the odd ball. 317 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: Oh no, it sounds like you're absolutely following in their 318 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: footsteps right in my own weird way. Yes, Um, what's 319 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: your what speaking speaking of strong opinions that people may 320 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: or may not get mad about. So, um, So, this 321 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 1: whole cosmic crisp Apple thing, it's still happening and it's 322 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: just really kicking off now. I mean last year was 323 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: sort of the the the initial preliminary release new apples, 324 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: Yeah right, but this fall is the big release. Yeah. 325 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: So okay. So for for anyone who hasn't heard about this, 326 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: this is this apple that is twenty years in the making. Um, 327 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: these researchers have been trying to put together just the 328 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 1: best possible Apple, like hundreds of millions of dollars in investment, 329 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: a ten million dollar marketing budgets. Speaking of Instagram, they 330 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: have had in instant influencers out there talking up this apple. 331 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: What how have you had one of these I have, 332 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: I have well, and I had to kind of divide 333 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:12,399 Speaker 1: them because I've had something that I bought at a 334 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 1: supermarket and then I had some of that the Cosmic 335 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 1: Chris people sent to me. The ones that they sent 336 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 1: to me were like pretty amazing, But I'm sure that 337 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,199 Speaker 1: the ones they reserve for like press are like the absolute, 338 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 1: you know, most pristine samples. Um. The ones that I 339 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: bought in the store were also very good. Look there, 340 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 1: it's a very good apple from to my like, to 341 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: my taste like, and you know, when you think about 342 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: the you know, an apple, there's a lot that goes 343 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: into let me take a step back. You go to 344 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: the grocery store. There's green grapes and red grapes. There's 345 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 1: maybe a couple of kinds of oranges. There's maybe a 346 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: couple of kinds of tomatoes. There's pretty much one kind 347 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 1: of strawberries. There's one kind of celery. Um. And it's 348 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: not that there aren't other kinds of strawberries or celery 349 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 1: or bananas that exist. It's just that there's only one 350 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 1: that has sort of become the one that gets mass 351 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: produced and shipped to supermarkets. Apples are the one fruit 352 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: that has sustained even in our sort of mass market, 353 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: um big food industry world, that we have a wide 354 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: range of different types of apples, and that the average 355 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: consumer knows about them. It's not just some sort of 356 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: high end food ething, like everyone knows red delicious and 357 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: golden delicious, honey crisp, and then you may have a 358 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: few more. Depending on where in the country you are, 359 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: you get some other different ones. But I would bet 360 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: that most Americans can name five different types of apples, 361 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: and and and there are real differences. There's there's how 362 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:34,400 Speaker 1: how crunchy or soft is the interior, How much does 363 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: the skin snap? Is it a shiny slicks smooth skin 364 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: or is it more that like dry sand papery skin. 365 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: How sweet is it? How juicy is it? How tart 366 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: is it? All of these things have to be calibrated. 367 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,640 Speaker 1: And the cosmic crisp is like it's like the way 368 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: that our computer monitors keep getting brighter and brighter, like 369 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: the way the saturation keeps getting turned up to like comply, 370 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 1: not like they burn your eyeballs because they're so bright. 371 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: The colors are so vivid. That's the cosmic crisp. It's 372 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: like the juiciness, the sweetness, the tartness, the crunch, everything 373 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 1: has been turned up to eleven and like that's pretty great. 374 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: That being said, Like, yeah, they're huge, which sometimes like 375 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: too big, and they're not cheap. They're you know, they're 376 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 1: pretty close to honey crisp prices. You know. My wife, 377 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: my wife, I don't know about you guys. My wife 378 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 1: doesn't let me buy honey Crisp. She's like, we don't 379 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 1: make honey crisp money. Right, you're right, right, that's the 380 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: that's like a birthday. It's your birthday, you got honey Crisp. 381 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: So so so there are downsides, but like it's a 382 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: very good apple. I think. Didn't you describe it as 383 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: the technicolor apple. Yes, it's like tell you right, it's 384 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 1: like it's it's it's just that it's so vivid. Everything 385 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 1: Every metric by which you would judge an apple is 386 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: like amped up. You can tell there's been twenty years 387 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:47,880 Speaker 1: breeding it for each one of these traits. I am 388 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: so fascinated by this. I it is um you know, 389 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: like like you have to pay royalties to grow this apple. 390 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: Like right, that's one of the interest things I learned 391 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 1: about working on this episode of the work Folle, which 392 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: is that um yet. Now, this is the way apples 393 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 1: are made, is that there are these apple clubs and 394 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: a university in the case of Cosmic Crisp, at the 395 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: University of Washington or or some sort of collective. They 396 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: develop the apple and then they license the right to 397 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: grow it to a select number of growers, and so 398 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: you have to pay for the right to grow it 399 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: and the right to you And the name of the 400 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: apple is trademarked. It's not just like a generic plant name, 401 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 1: and so you have to pay for the right to 402 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: use the name and to sell it under the name. 403 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 1: But the flip side is that that controls supply and demand. 404 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: So so what what the apple club says is, look, 405 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: you pay us for the right to grow these apples, 406 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 1: but what we're gonna do an exchange is that we're 407 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,640 Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna put a bunch of money behind marketing 408 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: this specific type of apple, so that gives you an 409 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: incentive to get in. And also we're gonna control the 410 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: number of growers who can grow it, so you don't 411 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: have to worry about the market being flooded. You're getting 412 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 1: something special here, and so that that accessent is a 413 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: pretty good incentive because in the past it takes a 414 00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: couple of years for an apple tree to bear fruit. 415 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: So if you have you know, and look, most apple 416 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: growers aren't getting rich. If you're gonna say, look, I 417 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: got X member of trees that are making me a 418 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 1: pretty good living, it's a big risk to start swapping 419 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: out the varieties and you have trees that are taking 420 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 1: a while, and then you don't know anyone's going to 421 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 1: buy that apple when the apple comes out. So these 422 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: apple clubs are trying to counteract that and and it 423 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: so it makes me this kind of interesting business model. 424 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: And the Cosmic Crisp is in line to make the 425 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: University of Washington quite a lot of money. Huh. That's 426 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 1: a pretty great name. It's it's like because it looks 427 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 1: like stars, right, cosmic party. It's like literally, I mean, 428 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: to me, looking at stars were a little bit of 429 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: a stretch. I think the way that someone else described 430 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 1: it was good. It was freckles. They look like little 431 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 1: yellow freckles on the red surface. And I mean maybe 432 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 1: if you get the right one, it could look a 433 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: little bit it could look kind of like stars. But 434 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 1: there's like a speckling a dust. But but yeah, but 435 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 1: what a name? Right, that's like a that that sounds 436 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: like a high sea flavor that I would have been 437 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: really into when well, it's also funny, Like I feel 438 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,159 Speaker 1: like this is you see a general trend in the 439 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 1: way that foods are named now. I think it's a 440 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: trend in marketing and branding in general, which is that 441 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,199 Speaker 1: things are less literal and more evocative. So like it 442 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: used to be, would name an apple red delicious. Well 443 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 1: let's look, okay, it's red, and we want people to 444 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: think it's delicious. What should we call it? You know, like, 445 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: let's not break the budget. Let's just go with red delicious, 446 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,160 Speaker 1: you know. And and and I. When I was a kid, 447 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: gatorade flavors were actually like orange was a flavor, like, 448 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: you know, not just a color. You know. Now Gatorade 449 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: flavors are like Arctic Blast, Like no, but Arctic blast 450 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: isn't a flavor, you know, that's an experience. But that's 451 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,199 Speaker 1: what they want you to They want to describe how 452 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 1: you're gonna feel when you consume this drink, not what 453 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: it tastes like. And the same iody with Cosmic Crisp 454 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: of of this sort of idea that it evokes an 455 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: emotion more than it tells you what it's going to 456 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: be like to eat it. That's interesting. I've been thinking 457 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 1: a lot about um, oh, those dreaded millennials and everything 458 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: they've ruined. Um, which I am one, but like this 459 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 1: whole Instagram kind of tying in with that of like 460 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 1: wanting an experience and and that being a separate thing 461 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: than just being at home and I'm tired and I 462 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: just want to eat something that's good and easy. Um, 463 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: but kind of seeing both of those things play out 464 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: at the same time and often in the same like 465 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,439 Speaker 1: I I can be guilty of instagramming food, and I 466 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: can also be guilty of just eating mac and cheese 467 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: and loving, loving every second. Yeah, but I wonder, like 468 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,880 Speaker 1: if mac and cheese were named something different first gained 469 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 1: national would I mean, Mac and che has been around 470 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 1: for a very very long time America a hundred couple 471 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,919 Speaker 1: hundred years, but you know, in some form, but like 472 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: if it was called something different, you know, like, um, 473 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,919 Speaker 1: what would be what would be a modern day version 474 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 1: of a name for mac and cheese? Like if blue 475 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 1: gatorade is whatever, like Arctic freeze. What's like, like you 476 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,640 Speaker 1: feel like it's very cozy. Yeah, it's like a comfort 477 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:15,400 Speaker 1: hug with ye like warm blanket. Maybe maybe I would 478 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: call it cheesy hug. Cheesy hug hug. You know, that's right. 479 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:22,400 Speaker 1: I would buy a product called cheesey hug. I would 480 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: buy it right now all the time. Yeah, Like that's yeah. 481 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: That's another interesting point though, because that comes up a 482 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:30,880 Speaker 1: lot on our show of how a lot of these 483 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 1: foods that were considered like poor foods get elevated and 484 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: then you're paying like ten dollars for your mac and cheese, 485 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 1: or you're because now as a different name, and maybe 486 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: it's been made instagram able and suddenly got truffle oil 487 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: and yeah right right, yeah, you know totally those things. 488 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 1: What a scam. Well, that's what much to say about this, 489 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: because like, first of all, like lobster's a perfect example, 490 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: Like lobster used to be plentiful in Maine. They would 491 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: serve it to prisoners. It was called the cockroach of 492 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: the sea. Now they put lobster in I can cheese, 493 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: which is also like the dumbest thing because like you 494 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 1: can't taste lobster, Like I'm not even the biggest lobster fan, 495 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: Like I like lobster rolls more than I like a 496 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: big fancy steam lobster. But but like you, you if 497 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: you put lobster in a giant thing back and she's like, 498 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 1: you're not tasting that lobster, you're wasting your money. And 499 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: also most truffle oil isn't even made from truffles. Goodness, Yeah, 500 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: lobsters are like worst crabs. I don't understand the entire 501 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 1: fascination that we're gonna get a lot of interesting list 502 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: but I love it. We're all about strong opinions, so yeah, 503 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 1: this is great. We do have some more of this 504 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 1: interview for your listeners, but first we have a quick 505 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 1: break for word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank 506 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,399 Speaker 1: you sponsor. Let's get back into the interview on a 507 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:00,400 Speaker 1: perhaps more serious note. Um, you know, this summer has 508 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 1: it's fall now it is officially fall. But um but 509 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: but we have had just just a lot of things 510 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: happening out there in the world that of of course 511 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 1: have touched the food world as well. And one of 512 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: those was I think that the intersection of the Black 513 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,719 Speaker 1: Lives Matter movement with um Bonappetite, one of the you know, 514 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:22,919 Speaker 1: kind of mainstays of food journalism, um, food entertainment journalism 515 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,679 Speaker 1: in our country. You've talked to a few guests on 516 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 1: your show who were involved in that, right, Yeah, when 517 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 1: when when all that first started going down, there were 518 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: a lot of people probably heard, but if you haven't, 519 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: there basically allegations of systemic racism and bonappetite which had 520 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 1: kind of been on a low simmer in the food 521 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: world for a long time. But um, when a photo 522 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: surface of the editor in chief in brown face was 523 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,480 Speaker 1: a photo for many years ago, but it sparked a 524 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: lot of people coming forward with a long list of 525 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,880 Speaker 1: serious concerns about the way things have been done there 526 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: for a long time leading right to the present, and 527 00:26:57,680 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: he was forced to resign and other executives forced to 528 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: resis ee um And at the end of the day, 529 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: wasn't about the brown face photo. Is about all the 530 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 1: you know, that just was the spark And we did 531 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: an episode about that on the Sport Fill that turned 532 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 1: out to be the most downloaded episode we ever did. 533 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: We kind of tracked what happened. Um. We interviewed Sola 534 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: l Wali, who was fantastic. She's one of the stars 535 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: of the BA Test Kitchen videos, which I mean for 536 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,880 Speaker 1: younger people, Like most younger people know about Appetite from 537 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: the b A Test kitsching videos, and they're not reading 538 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: the magazine. And so I think that there's just a 539 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 1: certain level of reckoning around race that's happening everywhere, I hope, um, 540 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: but it's happening. It's even more pointed in the world 541 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,159 Speaker 1: of food because, at least in part, because food is 542 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 1: a stand in for identity, and so it's a very 543 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: it's a very short leap from the food of person 544 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 1: cooks to who a person is, where they're from, where 545 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: they're you know, what their culture is. And and so 546 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: when the decisions to get made about which foods are 547 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: considered better, which which foods get more attention, which chefs 548 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: get more attention, how the hierarchy of the food world 549 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: is is set. Um. You know a lot of those 550 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,880 Speaker 1: questions are just like so glaring the questions around race, 551 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 1: and why aren't some foods considered as good as others? 552 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 1: Why don't some chefs get the same opportunities that others get. 553 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: And those are the kinds of questions that were coming 554 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,919 Speaker 1: up at Bon Appetite, you know, Um, which frankly, I 555 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,879 Speaker 1: think like I mean, I I did not know the 556 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: depth of it, but I mean I think the people 557 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: in the world of food knew that Bon Appetite was 558 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: the place that had issues. Yeah it, um, you know, 559 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 1: it's one of those experiences I just called a magazine 560 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 1: and experience that's great. Um uh, it's it's it's it's 561 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: one of those things that you that you get and um, 562 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: you know. I was charmed by it as as a kid, 563 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: but as I got older, I started realizing that the 564 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: way that that some of these publications frame things is 565 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: always from this extraordinarily white standpoint, um, looking at anything 566 00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: like as far out as a curry as this exhost 567 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: experience for you to have, um, and just thereby completely 568 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: erasing the experience of the billions of people for whom 569 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: that's a normal, everyday food. We should all be eating 570 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 1: more doll It shouldn't need to be packaged to something 571 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: exotic like you know, right. So that was one of 572 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 1: the issues that that bonabateet head um, which was when 573 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 1: they would feature any dish that, first of all, it 574 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: was rare they would feature those kinds of dishes from 575 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: non white cultures. When they did it, would sometimes be 576 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 1: presented as like look at this, you know strange, look 577 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 1: at this exciting exotic thing like which right? Um, so 578 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: there was that, but then often they would hire white 579 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: chefs to be the people presenting these dishes. Um and 580 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: to be clear, you know, um no, you know some 581 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,479 Speaker 1: people hear that. And one of the responses I hear 582 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: often from white people as they say, well, like that's 583 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: just the world of food. You know, people experiment. You 584 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 1: know who says, don't tell me I can't cook Indian food. 585 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: I can cook Indian food if I want. And I 586 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: think the what people miss is for us of all, Look, 587 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 1: you can cook whatever you want in your house, No 588 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: one cares, um, do whatever you want. The issue happens 589 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: when when you talk about white chefs who are putting 590 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 1: who are putting themselves forward in the public eye as 591 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: experts in a cuisine and in many cases haven't put 592 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: in all that much time and all that much work, 593 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: and don't really have that deep of an expertise, and 594 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: you have these food media outlets that then hold them 595 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: up as experts, present them as experts, give them more credibility, 596 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: and these people often don't really know what they're talking about. 597 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: Or have only very surface understanding, and even if they 598 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: do know what they're talking about, why not, Like to 599 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: be featured in Baropotite is a huge career opportunity for 600 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: any chef, So why not give that opportunity to one 601 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: of the chefs of color who have a much deeper 602 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: level of expertise in this cuisine and can contextualize it right, right, 603 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: And so those are some of the issues that they 604 00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: were running into. You know, they would do things like 605 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 1: um al Us in Rome and the white chef had 606 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 1: a recipe there for something called flaky bread, and the 607 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: whole recipe is presented as if it's her idea, as 608 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 1: if she invented this new type of bread. If you 609 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: and if you read it and didn't know any better, 610 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 1: you would think, oh cool, Alice and Roman developed this recipe, 611 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 1: she has this way to make bread. What turns out 612 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: that like this, it was inspired by a Yemeni flatbread. 613 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,959 Speaker 1: But like there's it's also like it's similar to a parata. 614 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: You know, all there are huge regions of the world 615 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: that do some variation of this bread. Alice and Roman 616 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: didn't invent it. It's fine for her to do it, 617 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: but she should at least say like this was inspired 618 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: by these other dishes in these cultures, and here's how 619 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: I learned about it. Like, give us some context, Um, 620 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 1: don't act like you invented it. We've got a little 621 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: bit more of this interview for you, but first we've 622 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: got one more quick break for a word from our sponsor, 623 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,959 Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you sponsor, and let's get back 624 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 1: into the interview. As part of your ten years Speak milestone, 625 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 1: you're re releasing um. Three of the listeners voted on 626 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: their favorite episodes, UM, and all of them just have 627 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: amazing stories to tell. Also, is it true you're learning 628 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,719 Speaker 1: to make a rue? It is true, yes, yes. So 629 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: for our tenth anniversary, we listeners voted and we picked 630 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: three all time favorite episodes for us to re release, 631 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: each with a brand new update. UM. So we're doing 632 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: one called Searching for the Aleppo Sandwich. This was the 633 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 1: number one vote getter. This was our quest to find 634 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: out what happened to a beloved sandwich shop in Aleppo, Syria. 635 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: What was this sandwich shop, what made it special? What 636 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,239 Speaker 1: was in those sandwiches? And what happened to it? Are 637 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: the owners alive or dead? And and what can the 638 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 1: Fate of this shop tell us about the fate of 639 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: Aleppo UM. So that was one of the most popular 640 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: episodes ever, so we do an update on that one. 641 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: We did update on one called Katie's Year and Recovery 642 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: in which we follow a woman who's in recovery from 643 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: a serious eating disorder over the course of a year. 644 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: So that was like followed over the course of and 645 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: then we have a more current update. And the last 646 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: one was Notes from Young Black Chef with Kwama and Watchi, 647 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 1: who has an incredible story in the original episodes really 648 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: just him telling his life story, which is he's a 649 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 1: great storyteller, thoughtful and hilarious. Even though that was only 650 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:26,959 Speaker 1: only aired less than a year ago, so much has 651 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 1: happened in the world of restaurants. He's been one of 652 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 1: the leading voices speaking out for a stimulus built as 653 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 1: poor restaurants UM and so he we had a lot 654 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: to catch up on with him. So that was the 655 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: three things we did for the tenth anniversary and it's 656 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: it's all culminating with an Instagram Live tenth anniversary party 657 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: tomorrow night, Saturday, September nine pm Eastern, six pm Pacific 658 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: with solo l Wali formerly about Appetite and Carla Hall 659 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: and Sola is going to be teaching me how to 660 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 1: make a rue? It is true, any I have made 661 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 1: it ten years as a podcast host of food podcast 662 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: host without knowing this most basic culinary task. I was 663 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,359 Speaker 1: not judging. I've only done it once and I can't 664 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: remember a successful And I hear that the moronically simple, 665 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,719 Speaker 1: but I I it had become a sort of point 666 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 1: of pride and the same thing that I didn't interview 667 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,319 Speaker 1: chefs at the beginning. I was like, I'm not you know, 668 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,959 Speaker 1: all the other food podcasters know how to make a rue. 669 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do it, you know. Well, so I 670 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 1: certainly wish you the best of luck on that. Yeah, 671 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,880 Speaker 1: I have total faith in you. Yeah. And if you 672 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 1: if you miss the Instagram live, will post it to 673 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,880 Speaker 1: I G t V. You can follow me on Instagram 674 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 1: at these pork full and you can watch it there later. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah, um, well, 675 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,360 Speaker 1: I love all of this. I love that, um that 676 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 1: these episodes that you're bringing back the people voted on 677 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 1: are such globally influenced episodes and that those are the 678 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 1: ones that really struck home with people. And I and 679 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: I hope that that's indicative of of these past ten 680 00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: years that you've spent in podcasting and how the world 681 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 1: is kind of turning around to be a little bit 682 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,879 Speaker 1: more self reflexive about about food and what it's doing 683 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 1: with that. Yeah, I I it's a nice way to 684 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 1: put it. I think. I hope, So, I hope, so, 685 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,760 Speaker 1: you know, I think that Certainly the show is evolved 686 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,319 Speaker 1: a lot since I started it ten years ago, and 687 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: in the early years was probably very narrow and its focus. 688 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,840 Speaker 1: It was mostly like food that I eat and you know, 689 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,399 Speaker 1: grew up eating. And at a certain point that got 690 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: tired and I was like, I want to broaden our audience. 691 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,399 Speaker 1: I want to connect with listeners on a deeper level 692 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: and be more thoughtful and just make the show more ambitious. 693 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,160 Speaker 1: And so that's sort of taking us into this new 694 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: to some of these episodes that we're talking about for 695 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,360 Speaker 1: the tenth anniversary, and and yeah, it's just kind of um, 696 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,760 Speaker 1: I still keep learning. Like I when I started the podcast, 697 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 1: I was a little worried because I was like, I 698 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 1: love food, I love to eat. If this becomes my career, 699 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 1: will that take the fun out of it? You know? 700 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 1: And that was really I was really worried that that 701 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 1: would be the case, but I think that I can 702 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: now say that has not happened, and in fact, the 703 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 1: opposite has happened, which is that I've learned more and 704 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 1: more about food and culture and people, um, and that 705 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: has only increased my fascination and now I'm more interested, 706 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 1: more passionate. There's more that I want to know and 707 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: more that I want to learn. So as long as 708 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,400 Speaker 1: that's the case, I'll keep doing it. Yeah. Yeah, and 709 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 1: that's great because that's how you started. But you know, 710 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 1: focus more on people, were on eaters, and it seems 711 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,239 Speaker 1: like through this time that that's only strengthened. And we 712 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,719 Speaker 1: definitely see it when we get letters from listeners and 713 00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 1: it's always so beautiful. It's like I could have just 714 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:35,960 Speaker 1: mentioned that as a kid, I did this growing up, 715 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,319 Speaker 1: and five people right in and oh I have a 716 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: story that connects to that, and you brought back memories 717 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 1: to this and just these human connections people form over 718 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,760 Speaker 1: food and food experiences. Yeah, I mean I remember learning 719 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,320 Speaker 1: that lesson when I was a producer at Air America 720 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 1: Radio years ago. I produced Mark Marrin's show there, and 721 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 1: you know that was supposed to be like a news 722 00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 1: in politics and like political comedy show, and that's most 723 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,439 Speaker 1: of what it was. But then like you know, once 724 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: an hour, Marion would like say something about his cats. 725 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,840 Speaker 1: He had adopted these like feral cats, and the phone 726 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,920 Speaker 1: lines would light up, you know, everyone like, tell us 727 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:13,759 Speaker 1: more about the cats, and we're like, when are we 728 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 1: even you know? So you know, um, you know, it's 729 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 1: just like but people love to connect with other people 730 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,360 Speaker 1: around things like that, you know, those little personal details 731 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 1: m hm. And people have opinions about food. People have 732 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 1: opinions about burrito rap. I love it. Yeah. And if 733 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:34,320 Speaker 1: if anyone out there is involved in any sort of 734 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:40,279 Speaker 1: lawsuit and you need an expert witness, I'll write a 735 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,399 Speaker 1: great ALFI David, I'm want to know I'm undefeated. There 736 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: you go, there you go. You could have a nice 737 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: little side gig so um in the future. In the future, Uh, 738 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 1: why do you have planned on the horizon? Aren't starting 739 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: a network? I think? Yeah, I mean network probably makes 740 00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 1: it sound more impressive than it is, but yes, I'm uh. 741 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,280 Speaker 1: We've announced that I'm launching something called spork Full Media, 742 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:08,320 Speaker 1: and so we got a couple of projects in development. 743 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,319 Speaker 1: One is a new food podcast with Stitcher, whom happy 744 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: to produce the sport Full with and um, that will 745 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: be one that I will help create and produce but 746 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 1: will not host. Still be a nice opportunity for us 747 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,960 Speaker 1: to you know, give other voices in the world of 748 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,239 Speaker 1: food and opportunity and hopefully use the sportful to help 749 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,959 Speaker 1: grow that show. And then I'm developing a TV show 750 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 1: with zero point zero productions. They're the same folks who 751 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,759 Speaker 1: do w km out Bell CNN show, they do David 752 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 1: Letterman's Netflix show. Um, they did all of Athny Bourdain's shows, 753 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: so they do fantastic work. So yeah, So we're gonna 754 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,480 Speaker 1: develop concepts with on those two fronts and then kind 755 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 1: of see where it leads. You know, I don't have 756 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 1: some there's no investors. I'm not hiring up a giant staff. 757 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 1: But I'm excited to start producing other things and you know, 758 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,000 Speaker 1: to just sort of like follow it where it leads us. 759 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,080 Speaker 1: I don't want to like grow just for the sake 760 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,719 Speaker 1: of growing. Um, I want to grow because it's an 761 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 1: opportunity to do fun, exciting new projects. Absolutely well, we're 762 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:14,920 Speaker 1: excited to see where all that goes. Thanks yeah, yeah, yeah, 763 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,920 Speaker 1: thank you. Um We're big fans. We I've used your 764 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 1: writings and podcasts and research before, so thank you. I 765 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:26,839 Speaker 1: appreciate Yeah, take it, Take anything you want? Yes, yes, yes, 766 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 1: yes yeah. Um. Is there anything else you wanted to 767 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,319 Speaker 1: touch on? You always shout out social media or where 768 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,560 Speaker 1: people can find you. Subscribe to this work full podcast 769 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,839 Speaker 1: wherever you get all your other podcasts, and I'm on 770 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:44,839 Speaker 1: social media at all the places at these porkfulle That 771 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,440 Speaker 1: brings us to the end of this delightful interview. We 772 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: hope it was as delightful to listen to as it 773 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,719 Speaker 1: was to do. We covered a lot of ground. We 774 00:39:53,880 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 1: went bouncing all over as as as a good interview does. Yes, um, yeah, 775 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,040 Speaker 1: So so do check out that live stream UM on 776 00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:09,359 Speaker 1: Saturday September What day is a Yes, that's if you're 777 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,960 Speaker 1: listening to this episode as it comes out that is tomorrow, 778 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,680 Speaker 1: UM and if you if if you if you miss 779 00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 1: it when it's live, then check it out later on YEP, 780 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,200 Speaker 1: and go check out sportful if you have it already. 781 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:27,239 Speaker 1: And also if you want to contact us, you can. 782 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 1: We have an email albright shiny email and it is 783 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,680 Speaker 1: hello at savor pod dot com. We're also on social media. 784 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at 785 00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 1: savor pod and we do hope to hear from you. 786 00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 1: Savor is production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts 787 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:44,640 Speaker 1: for my Heart Radio, you can visit the I Heart 788 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,239 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 789 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 1: favorite shows. Thanks to our super producers Dylan Fagan and 790 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 1: Andrew Howard and the entire sport Full team for helping 791 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:54,960 Speaker 1: make this happen. Thanks to you for listening, and we 792 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,360 Speaker 1: hope that lots more good things are coming your way.