Speaker 1: I won't let my body out me out well everything
Speaker 1: that I'm made don't won't spend my life trying to change.
Speaker 1: I'm learning to love who I am. I get I'm strong,
Speaker 1: I feel free, I know who everybody me. It's beautiful
Speaker 1: and then will always out way if you feel it
Speaker 1: with yours in there, She'll love to the boy there.
Speaker 1: Let's say good day and did you and die out?
Speaker 1: Happy Saturday. Outweigh fam Hey Michelle, Hello, how you doing
Speaker 1: doing good? Michelle's a regular here now Here we are
Speaker 1: episode four of Michelle's residency here on Outweigh, and I
Speaker 1: am gonna get into a little bit of my story
Speaker 1: which we've shared before, because we're gonna talk about binging
Speaker 1: and how that might look like you're restricting if you
Speaker 1: deny yourself a binge. And this is just my personal story.
Speaker 1: I don't know that this will work for everyone, but
Speaker 1: I was a big fan of Brain over Binge, which
Speaker 1: is a book that was written by Catherine Hansen, and
Speaker 1: it came with the workbook. It was a big part
Speaker 1: of my recovery, along with Fork the Noise, which Lisa,
Speaker 1: my co host for Outweigh, whose Michelle is filling in
Speaker 1: for the last four weeks, but I had to implement
Speaker 1: all kinds of tools from all over. But because I
Speaker 1: was in such a binge restrict cycle and even purge
Speaker 1: at times. The binging didn't happen all the time, but
Speaker 1: it was something that I had to practice not doing.
Speaker 1: And that's through the brain over binge process. Was when
Speaker 1: I found myself going to the pantry when I knew
Speaker 1: it wasn't time for food, like I had had enough food,
Speaker 1: like it was good, I had to go to the
Speaker 1: pantry and literally just walk away. And I had to
Speaker 1: walk away from it hundreds of times, probably loably. And
Speaker 1: the point was to build new neural pathways of like
Speaker 1: I don't need food right now. But this is not restriction.
Speaker 1: I'm not restricting myself. I can have this food. I'm
Speaker 1: not hungry right now. I don't need this food. I'm
Speaker 1: walking away. So it was this constant like back and forth.
Speaker 1: I mean there were some days where I probably walked
Speaker 1: to the pantry so many times and I would just
Speaker 1: turn around. But that was part of the process that
Speaker 1: worked for me. Now Michelle, being a registered dietitian and
Speaker 1: having clients that come to you say I was your client,
Speaker 1: and I came in and I'm like, I don't know
Speaker 1: what it is, but I go to my pantry and
Speaker 1: I'm eating like fifty times, and I'm going and I'm
Speaker 1: just constantly grabbing for things. It might just be that
Speaker 1: I'm going to the pantry and eating too much, but
Speaker 1: then that ultimately for me and my personal experience, would
Speaker 1: end up in a binge because I'd be like, look
Speaker 1: at what I've already eaten, So I'm just gonna sit
Speaker 1: here and eat, and I would get into this zone.
Speaker 1: It's almost like I checked out and like I was
Speaker 1: just going through the motions of eating. And so that
Speaker 1: was a tool that I used to rewire my brain.
Speaker 1: What is something that you would have added to my
Speaker 1: toolbox during that season of my life. Yeah, So something
Speaker 1: that is kind of similar and different is um thinking
Speaker 1: about permission and choice. And so what I tell my
Speaker 1: clients is, you know, you always have the option to
Speaker 1: do these disordered behaviors, like let's not take it off
Speaker 1: the table, because then that is going to make it
Speaker 1: kind of feel more appealing. But if you're having that
Speaker 1: urge to binge, and what you said about feeling checked
Speaker 1: out is really important. If someone doesn't know if they're
Speaker 1: over eating or binging. That mentality of not being able
Speaker 1: to stop and feeling out of control is kind of
Speaker 1: the sign of a binge versus just eating too uncomfortably
Speaker 1: full or over eating. And so what I like to
Speaker 1: tell clients is first to make sure that you're eating
Speaker 1: enough and it's not just a product of restriction, because
Speaker 1: that restrict binge cycle is very present. So if you
Speaker 1: are eating enough and you still are having the binges,
Speaker 1: then yeah, try and create space, is how I describe it.
Speaker 1: So you know, what I've had some people do that
Speaker 1: they found very helpful is like literally set a timer
Speaker 1: for ten minutes when you feel that urged to binge,
Speaker 1: and then use that time to journal or distract yourself
Speaker 1: in some way, doing some sort of other pleasant activity
Speaker 1: or think about just notice like what you're feeling and
Speaker 1: what's driving the binge, and then when the ten minutes
Speaker 1: are up, then make the choice, so not I'm not
Speaker 1: going to binge, but then you get to decide at
Speaker 1: that time, after you've reflected and checked in with yourself,
Speaker 1: do I want the food or do I actually need
Speaker 1: something else? And just making it a conscious choice makes
Speaker 1: it less compulsive and out of control. And then yeah,
Speaker 1: giving yourself that power of like, oh I can make
Speaker 1: this a decision. It's interesting, like our brains, they're so fascinating.
Speaker 1: I'm turning ear to ear when I say it, because
Speaker 1: I honestly don't understand much of it when I'm trying.
Speaker 1: And I've seen it happen in my brain, and I've
Speaker 1: seen the difference that it can make, and I what
Speaker 1: ultimately happened was I started restricting. That's where it first
Speaker 1: started for me. This is again my story, but at
Speaker 1: a young age, I started dieting as a teenager, and
Speaker 1: that restriction, then my brain suddenly was like, wait, what,
Speaker 1: we can't trust this person. I'm going to take care
Speaker 1: of you, So you're gonna need to eat and eat
Speaker 1: and eat. Next time you give me food, we're eating
Speaker 1: a lot of it because I don't know when you're
Speaker 1: gonna give it to me again. And then then that
Speaker 1: for me, is how the binging started. Was from the
Speaker 1: restricting and having a list of things I was never
Speaker 1: allowed to have, and so I was totally disconnected, like
Speaker 1: there was no yeah mine body spirit connection like it
Speaker 1: just was. My brain was in survival mode like no
Speaker 1: wonder And now that I understand it. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's crazy that my brain was literally forming a way
Speaker 1: to take care of me, right, It just wants us
Speaker 1: to survive desperately. Yeah, And so I mean what you
Speaker 1: mentioned briefly was like foods being off limits. That's the
Speaker 1: other piece of things is making sure that whatever your
Speaker 1: go to binge foods are, if you don't want to
Speaker 1: binge on them, are you incorporating them in a healthy way.
Speaker 1: So let's say, I mean you mentioned oreos before, and
Speaker 1: now I'm thinking about oreos, So let's always talking about oreos.
Speaker 1: So I mean, number one question, are you regular oreos
Speaker 1: or golden Oreos? I'm regular double stuffed Golden oreos. Double
Speaker 1: stuffed are my favorite, so I might have to try those.
Speaker 1: I don't really go for the golden. I try to
Speaker 1: pick up all the other crazy flavors that are out there.
Speaker 1: My friend Kat the Fatah, who she's comes on Outweighs sometimes,
Speaker 1: but she is also in the same network. She has
Speaker 1: a podcast called You Need Therapy, and we were doing
Speaker 1: a podcast about something totally different than oreos, but of
Speaker 1: course I found a way to bring up oreos and
Speaker 1: she we had this whole like metaphor for how Oreos
Speaker 1: they keep adding so many different flavors. It's almost like
Speaker 1: you go to Target or the grocery store and there's
Speaker 1: so many different Oreo flavors, and it's like, why did
Speaker 1: you mess with something that was good? Like Oreos they
Speaker 1: had something going like they're good. Fine, you could end
Speaker 1: at the regular and the golden. We'll give you that.
Speaker 1: But then there's like double chocolate chocolate chunk chocolate hazel,
Speaker 1: not like all you know, red velvet. Yeah, there was
Speaker 1: a mystery one that was like fruity pebbles. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: the Oreo company ends up being this metaphor for like
Speaker 1: we as humans, we keep striving and striving and like
Speaker 1: when is enough? Like when are we satisfied with who
Speaker 1: we are and what we bring to the table, Because
Speaker 1: Oreo just does not seem satisfied, and so it's kind
Speaker 1: of like the difference between like striving versus contentment. It
Speaker 1: was basically our conversation and it all happened because Oreos,
Speaker 1: Like a lot of conversations in my life start because
Speaker 1: of Oreos. So back to this conversation, Um, you asked
Speaker 1: me my favorite, but yeah, Oreos might be something that
Speaker 1: is a binge food. So where am I incorporating it
Speaker 1: into my life? Yeah, So, if you find yourself going
Speaker 1: to binge on oreos, and then what works for you
Speaker 1: is to take a pause or to walk away, or
Speaker 1: to do some journaling or whatever it is. If you
Speaker 1: never eat the oreos, the urge to bend them probably
Speaker 1: won't go away. So then the next step would be
Speaker 1: maybe the next day, while you're eating your lunch, you
Speaker 1: have a few oreos as a side with your lunch,
Speaker 1: and normalize it in the other parts of your life,
Speaker 1: in the other times of day outside of the bench,
Speaker 1: so that it loses that emotional charge that oreos aren't
Speaker 1: ruling you. Exactly exactly when I first became a mom,
Speaker 1: I had so many disordered behaviors myself, and I was
Speaker 1: passing them along to my kids, and I restricted so
Speaker 1: many things, and I thought I was doing it in
Speaker 1: the name of hell, my children, We're gonna be so
Speaker 1: quote unquote healthy. And I would get so irritated if
Speaker 1: they would go to like a something at church, for example,
Speaker 1: where I shouldn't be irritated there, but I would go
Speaker 1: pick them up and then they would have all this
Speaker 1: candy and snacks from Sunday school, and I would be like,
Speaker 1: they didn't even ask me. They didn't even ask me
Speaker 1: if it's okay to give my kids candy. I'm working
Speaker 1: so hard to keep candy out of their life. And
Speaker 1: then I realized I was making them obsess about candy
Speaker 1: way more like my kids actually didn't really care that
Speaker 1: much about candy, but they were caring about it more
Speaker 1: because I wasn't allowing it. So that also was a
Speaker 1: huge learning lesson for me. And my kids are so
Speaker 1: much happier now. My daughter has said multiple times like
Speaker 1: you're just more cool or I don't know how, she
Speaker 1: just says that I'm not as strict around food as
Speaker 1: I used to be, and not just for myself but
Speaker 1: for them. And we don't realize sometimes what we're doing,
Speaker 1: we're passing along to our kids. And then we could
Speaker 1: we create eating this, you know, fear of foods in
Speaker 1: our children, when they didn't even have a fear to
Speaker 1: begin with. We put it there. Yeah, And I don't
Speaker 1: know if there's research on this, but if you were
Speaker 1: to look at the variety of foods that kids eat
Speaker 1: when they're in a home that restricts sugar, for example,
Speaker 1: of versus when they're not. They probably eat less sugar
Speaker 1: when it's not restricted. Like, we're naturally interested in variety,
Speaker 1: and so when everything is available, we want variety. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so just think about that if you happen to be
Speaker 1: a mom, But then also think about that just for
Speaker 1: yourself and know that, like I'm sure it makes sense
Speaker 1: when you think about it from a child's eyes, it
Speaker 1: literally is the same thing from you and you as
Speaker 1: an adult listening to this now, you maybe started some
Speaker 1: of these behaviors as a child because I grew up
Speaker 1: with diet culture all around me and the restricting all
Speaker 1: around me because it's the nineties and everything was fat
Speaker 1: free and everyone was trying this diet and that diet,
Speaker 1: and it was very normal for and it still is
Speaker 1: normal for a lot of moms to quote unquote diet.
Speaker 1: But I think as a society, we're learning more, we're
Speaker 1: shifting away from that, and hopefully we're raising up a
Speaker 1: generation that won't have that as their childhood memories. But
Speaker 1: I don't know how old are you, Michelle. I'm thirty, Okay,
Speaker 1: so I'm forty. What was it like for you as
Speaker 1: as a child. Well, I mean, I am very grateful
Speaker 1: that my my parents were pretty flexible with food, so
Speaker 1: we we had a wide variety of things with some
Speaker 1: parameters of you know, my mom would not buy the
Speaker 1: certain types of cereal that had quote unquote too much sugar,
Speaker 1: but you know, still we had popped cards every now
Speaker 1: and then and all sorts of things, so I was
Speaker 1: pretty I don't like the word normal because is there
Speaker 1: even a normal. But normal with food growing up, which
Speaker 1: I think really contributed to having a healthy relationship with
Speaker 1: food was just like it was always there. It was
Speaker 1: always normal, there wasn't I mean, yes, I did see
Speaker 1: people on diet the like weight Watchers was super trendying
Speaker 1: and kind of all those diets, but for me and
Speaker 1: my siblings, eating everything made it feel okay, well that's awesome.
Speaker 1: I think that's a great example of what that could
Speaker 1: look like and the well, now what I'm going to
Speaker 1: be offering my kids and I hope that they grow
Speaker 1: up to be thirty and they're like, yeah, we kind
Speaker 1: of just we're able to have whatever. Except for the
Speaker 1: first year when our mom brought us to America, she
Speaker 1: restricted and that will be their answer. After that, it
Speaker 1: got more. Yeah, the one thing for me was white bread.
Speaker 1: My mom only did holy read and whenever I went
Speaker 1: to friends houses and we would have like if I
Speaker 1: had lunch there and they had white bread, that was like, wow,
Speaker 1: I got white bread. Never like tell my mom, like
Speaker 1: we had white bread. So that was the one thing.
Speaker 1: You know, I always point out to people, and I
Speaker 1: think we know this, Like when you're at like a
Speaker 1: kid's party, you can tell which kids don't have access
Speaker 1: to the sweets because they're like going for it. And
Speaker 1: that happens as adults too, like you said, like you
Speaker 1: notice the people who are st ate to the dessert
Speaker 1: table at the birthday party, and then it takes away
Speaker 1: from being able to be present in the socializing. So
Speaker 1: kind of relating it to adulthood, like if you're not
Speaker 1: allowing yourself those foods and then you're thinking about it more,
Speaker 1: then you're not fully participating in your life and everything
Speaker 1: else that you're wanting to do. Yeah, I missed out
Speaker 1: on so many experiences, whether I was binging or restricting
Speaker 1: because depending on the day, so it was a restrictive day,
Speaker 1: I would bring my own meal and miss out on
Speaker 1: whatever maybe someone cooked because I didn't trust it. So
Speaker 1: therefore I missed out on that connection. And then of course,
Speaker 1: because I'm eating what I brought, I'm just thinking about
Speaker 1: everything they're eating, wishing I could eat it. So there
Speaker 1: I'm not present. That was a restrictive state. Then if
Speaker 1: I was in a I don't really care day, so
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna eat whatever, then I'm focused on eating whatever,
Speaker 1: and I'm uncomfortable and I don't feel present again. So
Speaker 1: my hope is for people to find that that sweet
Speaker 1: spot where you can just be present with the people
Speaker 1: and and joy the food, whatever that might be, and
Speaker 1: find joy in that activity, because there's so much time
Speaker 1: when you're in a binge restrict cycle that you don't
Speaker 1: get to enjoy. You may cancel plans, not go to
Speaker 1: plans again, depending on where are you, where you are
Speaker 1: in it, and there's so much joy to be had
Speaker 1: for you, there is and it, and I do wanna
Speaker 1: validate and acknowledge normalize that it takes some challenge to
Speaker 1: get there, because I hear from a lot of clients like, well,
Speaker 1: I don't want to allow myself this food that I
Speaker 1: don't have permission for it, because then I'll be so
Speaker 1: stressed out while I'm at that dinner with my friends,
Speaker 1: and I just want to be present, and so the
Speaker 1: initial like working through it and giving yourself permission. And
Speaker 1: I'm sure you experienced this, like it does create discomfort,
Speaker 1: but it's the short term discomfort for the long term
Speaker 1: peace with food. Well, and we had Dr Josh on
Speaker 1: the podcast. Actually it's been a couple of years now,
Speaker 1: but I follow him on Instagram and he's he's a
Speaker 1: medical doctor, and he was saying about that. You mentioned
Speaker 1: anxiety in stress around like allowing a food, but the
Speaker 1: chemicals that you release with the stress around it's like
Speaker 1: worse than if you would just eat the cookie or whatever.
Speaker 1: It is, absolutely and so if that just helps you
Speaker 1: have some perspective on it, give yourself that permission to
Speaker 1: to try to enjoy it, even if you're not restricting.
Speaker 1: What about keeping binge type foods or something that fell
Speaker 1: into that category for you or I don't even know
Speaker 1: what we call it, like a trigger food, like a
Speaker 1: food that you would eat that might lead to a binge.
Speaker 1: I know you mentioned incorporating it into or making sure
Speaker 1: it's available to you. You know, that's like one of
Speaker 1: the steps. How do you feel about keeping it in
Speaker 1: the pantry. I think it's great. I think for most
Speaker 1: people it's very helpful to work through that process with
Speaker 1: a professional, with a dietician. But I think it's something
Speaker 1: that's important to do because it just increases that level
Speaker 1: of full permission. So you know, we want to make
Speaker 1: it sustainable and achievable, setting yourself up for success. So
Speaker 1: you might not buy all of your bene foods at once.
Speaker 1: Maybe you want to work through them one at a time,
Speaker 1: first focus on one and getting really comfortable with that,
Speaker 1: then adding another, And the point is to be okay
Speaker 1: having it without that compulsive urge to binge it. Then
Speaker 1: you get to again have that choice and that freedom
Speaker 1: of like do I want to have it right now
Speaker 1: or not. So the initial working through it and like
Speaker 1: normalizing having it at home doesn't mean that you need
Speaker 1: to have a constant supply of that food at all
Speaker 1: times for the rest of your life. But then it
Speaker 1: just is like another thing on the grocery list when
Speaker 1: you want it, and it's not when you don't. I
Speaker 1: went through a phase. I'm not so much there anymore,
Speaker 1: but as I was retraining my brain, I did a
Speaker 1: lot a lot of unlearning and learning. Like at the
Speaker 1: grocery store sometimes I would go grab something and I'd
Speaker 1: be like, uh, I don't really mean and then I'd
Speaker 1: be like, you know what, getting it and I would
Speaker 1: just throw it in my cart because I and it
Speaker 1: just was like something inside me just felt so empowering,
Speaker 1: like throwing it in my cart and that simple act
Speaker 1: like again, and then I knew I have a choice
Speaker 1: whether I'm taking that home and I'm gonna put in
Speaker 1: my pantry, and I have a choice when I go
Speaker 1: to the pantry, I'm going to be in control. But
Speaker 1: like you said, just to back up, it takes a
Speaker 1: lot of time, and it takes repeat, repeat, repeat. Like
Speaker 1: I said, I went back to the pantry or would
Speaker 1: walk away from the pantry multiple times. But I knew
Speaker 1: what I was doing to my brain, and I trust
Speaker 1: that I was trusting the process. There might be a
Speaker 1: different process for other people. But again that book was
Speaker 1: brain over binge in case people want more info on that.
Speaker 1: But I like where this discussion went today. I know
Speaker 1: not everybody has an issue with binging, but hopefully it's
Speaker 1: of this episode was helpful to you and then to
Speaker 1: understand what some other like family members or friends might
Speaker 1: be going through. Even though now my brain has a
Speaker 1: choice and I'm in control. For so many years, I
Speaker 1: was out of control. My brain was doing its thing
Speaker 1: to try to take care of me, and I was
Speaker 1: depriving it. It was like, Okay, we're gonna go ahead
Speaker 1: and eat eat, eat, eat eat. Like working against each other, Yeah,
Speaker 1: learning to work with yourself is helpful. Give yourself that
Speaker 1: that grace for sure. Okay, Well, thank you Michelle for
Speaker 1: coming on again, and people can find you on Instagram
Speaker 1: at Yes at Michelle Pillow Pitch Nutrition than for having
Speaker 1: me and the Pillow Pitch. Yes. We know it's difficult
Speaker 1: to spell, but we have it in the show notes,
Speaker 1: so if you're listening to sapvages, go there and you
Speaker 1: can see their click on it, get it, get all
Speaker 1: of Michelle's info. Thank you for coming on for all
Speaker 1: four weeks and we'd love to have you back again
Speaker 1: in the future. And in the meantime, y'all can connect
Speaker 1: with Michelle on Instagram. Thanks so much,