WEBVTT - Addams Family Values with Ali Nahdee 0:00:00.960 --> 0:00:04.000 On the Bechdelcast. The questions asked if movies have. 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:07.960 Women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:11.879 or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:15.960 best start changing it with the Bechdel Cast. 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:20.720 No no, no, no, no no no no no no 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:26.360 no no, no no, it's the Bechdel Cast. Oh you're 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:29.600 gonna keep Oh I will? It failed immediately? 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:32.960 Okay, Well, what is what is the beel Cast introduction? 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:36.800 If not a shocking lack of commitment on both of 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:37.959 our parts. I think that that. 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:39.959 Is what a true all about. 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:43.800 It's being like, okay, you get the concept, but we're 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:49.520 not gonna sing. Okay, the podcast is free to listen to. Yeah, 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:52.519 welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Shamie Loftus, 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:53.560 and I'm not gonna sing. 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:56.400 Oh yeah. My name's Caitlin Dernte. I really wish I 0:00:56.440 --> 0:01:00.600 had the foresight to like write out a Like's family 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:04.120 style Bechdel Cast theme song, but and it turns out 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:06.320 I'm not an improviser, so it didn't work out. 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:10.280 Well, here we are, and we are doing this our 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:14.120 second Adams Family episode with I feel the superior Adams 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:18.560 Family movie. But before we get into it, what the 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:21.600 hell is this show? This show is a podcast where 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:23.560 we take a look at your favorite movies using an 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:27.520 intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel Test as a jumping 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:29.880 off point for discussion. But Caitlin, what. 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:33.119 The hell is that? Well, it is just a little 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:36.480 media metric that first appeared in our best friend Alison 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:41.160 Bechdel's comic dis to Watch out For. It has many versions. 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:44.080 The one that we use is do two characters of 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:48.040 a marginalized gender have names? And do they speak to 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:51.840 each other about something other than a man? And ideally 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:57.600 we like it when it's a narratively substantial, meaty conversation. 0:01:58.320 --> 0:01:59.880 Not a problem for this. 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:02.800 Yeah, let's get let's get into it. 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:06.120 We have an amazing returning guest, Yea, and I want 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:08.800 to get her in here. Indeed, she is the creator 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:12.680 of the Ali Naughty Test. She is a content creator 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:17.160 with a terrific YouTube channel. You remember her from episodes 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:23.680 on movies like Frozen, Two Avatar, Aquaman. It's Ali Nanny. 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:28.040 I'm here. I rolled up because I heard you guys 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:28.960 need a nanny. 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:31.520 Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes I might kill you. 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:32.440 Guys and take your money. 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:32.880 I don't know. 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:37.239 Yeah, I've got this like weird brother who's single, which 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:38.760 is a statement that's half true. 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:39.760 I have a weird brother. 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:43.079 He's daying someone. 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:46.359 It's so good to be back. I was so excited 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:49.040 when you guys asked me back, especially for this video. 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:52.600 Welcome back, yes, because we I mean, you have made 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:54.600 a video on this very movie. 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:57.760 Yep, what was it? It was Sada the fat culture 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:02.560 critic on YouTube. She these prompts for YouTube videos, and 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:06.720 it's usually like for a positive emotion, like one scene 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:11.840 for joy, one scene for forgiveness, one scene for hope, 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:16.840 and this one was one scene for resistance because a 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:20.400 lot of people ask me about my opinion about this movie, 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:23.720 and I was like, what better way to just dive 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:27.760 in because it was my one scene for resistance. 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:31.160 Because it's perfect, it's a great video. We're gonna link 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:33.840 it in the description as well. I mean, just congrassle 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:34.360 your channel. 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:36.280 It fucking rocks, Thank you so much. 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:39.840 I work so hard on it, and I'm not monetized 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:41.880 because as soon as I turn it into a job, 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:42.640 I'll hate. 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:43.880 It, sure of course. 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:47.960 So it's just I need an outlet for this sort 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:49.760 of thing, and it's something I've always wanted to do 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:54.760 and it's it's really great and I'm just very bad 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:55.720 at deadlines. 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:59.760 So the but it doesn't matter if it's not your job. 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:01.800 It's true, it's a hobby. 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:03.840 That rocks. 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:06.080 Well, thank you, thank you for coming back. Yeah, we 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:09.960 have so much to talk about today, but let's get 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:12.240 started in the way we always get started. What is 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:15.080 your personal history with this movie, which I guess we 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:18.400 haven't said the title Adam's Family Values in nineteen ninety three. 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:21.640 Yes, and you're corrected as the superior movie. And I 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:24.640 don't know, maybe it's because I'm biased, because I explain 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:28.720 in my video for it that, you know, I grew 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:32.839 up in a biracial family. You know, my dad is 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:36.640 a Nishnabe and my mother's white, and me and my 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:41.200 sisters we grew up, you know, not on a reservation, 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:45.640 not on an unseated territory without like a big native 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:52.040 community like at all. So because my dad was assimilated, 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:56.640 because his mother and his anti were residential school survivors, 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:01.840 they didn't have a cultural connection either, you know, so 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:05.440 when they raised us, it was you know, we were 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:09.320 native and we understood that dad wasn't white, you know, 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:14.240 at least visibly, and they would show us like we 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:18.200 still wanted that connection, you know, to the culture and 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:21.280 didn't really know how to go about doing that since 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:25.080 we lived so far away, and a lot of stuff 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:27.559 that my parents would do was, oh, there's a movie 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:29.520 that has Indians in it. Let's show it to them, 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:33.240 and they'll think that's cool because it's you know, like 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:37.440 their dad, like us. You know. So sometimes it was 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:41.280 good and sometimes a lot of times it was not. 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:46.320 But you know, with problematic representation isn't a new thing 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:50.760 for natives, but this was one of them, and I 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:55.440 didn't realize until we get to that specific part why 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:58.839 my parents chose to show us this movie. And it's 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:01.760 been a favorite sense and I love the hell out 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:01.960 of it. 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:03.440 Hell yeah. 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:06.320 It also helps that when I put my hair in braids, 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:09.280 especially if I try to go to like, you know, 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:15.280 rallies or pow wows and stuff, because I'm very pigment challenged. 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:20.040 I look more like Wednesday than I do like any 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:21.520 of my native relatives. 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:28.880 Like Okay, Jamie, what about you, what's your relationship with 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:29.400 this movie? 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:32.640 I was a late comer to it. I think I 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:35.200 saw it when I was a kid, but I it wasn't. 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:36.080 I don't know. 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:40.000 I think my mom was just she's like the Adams Family, 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:43.280 no goths in this house, which is why I got 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:49.799 so into goth stuff because my mom said no goths. Anyways, Yeah, 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:52.160 so I got really into the Adam's family as like 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:57.279 a teen. I love this movie. It's my favorite of 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:00.640 I mean, there's only the two, but this is the 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:03.359 better one. I feel like this movie really is like 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:05.839 the best use of the Adams Family that I've ever seen, 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:08.600 in putting them in fish out of water situations to 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:12.600 criticize American culture, which is the point of them. And 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:15.400 I don't know. My niece watches that this is unrelated. 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:18.200 My niece really enjoys the like animated reboot, and they 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:20.440 just don't use any of the cool parts of the 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:25.240 Adams Family. It's a waste. I haven't seen Wednesday, can't 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:28.400 speak to it. But yes, I love the Adams Family. 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:33.240 I think that this movie is doing so much in 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:36.640 something that I feel like it's hard to find family 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:41.320 films doing now, which is really exkewering and criticizing American 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:45.800 culture and not sacrificing any funny to like, you know, 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:49.680 be super didactic, which is just you just don't see 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:52.400 it a lot. So it's I think one of my 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:56.600 favorite comedies. I think, I mean, I think. I also 0:07:56.600 --> 0:08:00.120 think it's wild that any like has it happened and 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:07.080 other things where like Joan Cusack and Christine Baranski two 0:08:07.400 --> 0:08:10.320 women I love so much, very confusing when they're in 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:14.800 the same movie. Their vibes are similar. Sure, yes, and 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:17.440 then I did, Caitlin. I didn't run this by you before, 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:22.000 but I feel like it's just time to say something 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:25.280 that it's been five years. It's been five whole years, 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:29.200 eighty four years. So another reason that this is an 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:31.679 especially interesting movie for us to cover on the show 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:36.000 is because we have previously interviewed the director of this 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:42.400 movie in one of the very few lost episodes of 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:46.320 the Buxtell Cast. You'll never hear it. We are Barry 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:49.160 Son and felt heads on the show. But he was 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:51.800 definitely not brief done what our show is about. 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:55.200 Or he was and he did not pay attention. 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:59.120 We're not sure. I mean, it's like he's busy. I 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:01.600 get it, pod has prep. It could be a lot 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:05.720 of work and uh, but anyways, it's just a fun 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:08.520 fact that something that happened five years ago, and we 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:10.880 were like, someday we'll say it. 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:12.800 It happened. It did happen. 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:16.400 We we covered Wild Wow West, and you'll never. 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:17.880 Know what happened in that conversation. 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:23.360 You can imagine it, you can wonder, but we'll never tell. 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:26.560 But I I feel like it's okay, I don't know. 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:28.800 We talked to our point of contact and she was like, yeah, 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:29.760 tell everyone it happened. 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:34.120 Well, it happened, history, history happened. 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:34.520 Well. 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:39.280 Also, at the time, before the interview went the way 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:42.600 that it did, we had posted like a screen grab 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:45.360 of our zoom call on Twitter, I think, and then 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:48.560 people were like, wow, that's cool. And then we just 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:51.160 never released that episode and people are like, what wasn't 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:54.200 that supposed to be something that came out, and we're like, really, don't, 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:55.679 don't talk about it. 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:57.440 I really know we were talking about. 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:58.640 Have you guys deleted your Twitter? 0:09:59.240 --> 0:09:59.640 No? 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:03.360 No, it's sitting dormant. It's just like a fucking. 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:05.920 Graveyard and is gone. I was like, good for you, 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:09.760 but yeah, I know this happened. And he's in the 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:13.880 movie as a cameo. He plays He plays a character's father. 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:17.120 Yes, and we are we are we are fans, we 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:18.000 are Barry Heads. 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:21.800 Yeah, but it was wild which character's. 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:26.680 Father Joel Joel's father a ka David Crumholtz his father. 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:28.079 Oh yeah, it was. 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:30.880 Like if it was the Sarah Miller's father. I was 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:34.000 going to be like, oh no. 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:37.079 So Also, this was the first I don't I haven't 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:39.599 seen this movie in well, it's not even true. I 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:40.920 saw it a couple of years ago. They did a 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:45.040 double feature with Casper and Adam's Family. Value is great 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:48.320 double double. So I saw that a couple of years ago, 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:49.920 and that was the last time I saw this. But 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:52.560 this is the first time I registered that that's baby 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:56.559 David Crumbholts. Oh nokay, I just I didn't know that 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:58.200 Bernard was in this film. 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:01.160 Bernard the Elf. Yeah, what can you do? 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:06.360 Anyways, Yes, I love this movie and that episode exists. Yes, 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:08.000 that's all I have to say at this time. 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:13.960 Thank you for sharing. I have a pretty limited history 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:19.679 with this movie. I probably saw both of the early 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:23.240 nineties Adam's families when I was a kid, but I 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:25.280 don't know something about my household. We were more of 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:28.839 a no goths. We know, it was more that we were. 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:31.240 We were a Tim Burton household. 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:34.160 Have ten anime betrayals right there. 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:36.600 It's funny. 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:38.040 There was a time. 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:41.640 I won't vouch for the man now, but we Yeah, 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:46.200 for some reason, when it came to like nineties Gothy 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:51.120 type movies that were mainstream. I mean, my mom fucked up. 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:53.760 She should have we should have had these on BHS, 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:56.520 but we didn't, and I resent her to this day. 0:11:56.559 --> 0:12:00.560 We weren't allowed to have Tim Burton I there. 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:05.240 Anyway. So all this to say, I didn't really grow 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:07.040 up with these movies. I think I probably saw them 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:11.400 at some point, but I didn't really immerse myself in 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:14.520 them until we covered the first movie, which was what 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:16.559 like five six years ago at this point. 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:18.760 Yeah, with the Iffy and Danny, I. 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:22.280 Think, yeah. And while prepping for that episode, I also 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:28.720 watched Adam's Family Values. And these movies are very funny. 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:31.960 I love the jokes in them. I wish I had 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:34.440 kind of gotten to them sooner. Also side note, there 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:36.960 is there is a third movie that I guess is 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:41.679 canonically part of the trilogy, although almost the entire cast 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:45.000 is different except for Oh the actor who plays Lurch. 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:48.920 But there's a movie called Adam's Family Reunion. Yes, from 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:53.040 nineteen ninety eight Tim Curry, Tim Curry and Darryl Hannah 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:54.520 as Gomez and Mortitia. 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:57.640 Wow, I have seen that. I guess that's like, I 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:01.480 feel like it's its own thing. Wednesday, it changes, it's 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:02.600 a different iteration. 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:05.440 I mean once all day. Once you know Angelica Houston 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:07.680 isn't there, Christopher. 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:12.360 Lloyd or Flintstone's Viva Rock Vegas in that way? Right, 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:15.760 You're like, where what's Jane Krakowski doing here? 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:20.240 Yes, So anyway, I don't have much of a history 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:23.040 with these movies, but I do enjoy them very much, 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:27.079 and there's a lot to discuss today. Let's take a 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:40.280 quick break and we'll come back for the recap, and 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:41.520 we're bad. We're back. 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:45.839 Hailey duff is in Adam's Family Reunion. Sorry, I'm looking 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:50.320 at this list like as Wednesday or no, as Gina Adams. 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:53.640 I'm assuming these are who I don't know. I'm assuming 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:57.280 she went to the reunion. Gina Adams Harve. 0:13:57.400 --> 0:13:59.319 The reunion right right right right? Yeah? 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:01.679 This guy straight to video. That would be a good 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:04.319 Matreon theme, just like Curse Straight to Video. 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:09.560 Sequels. There's so many bad ones with an entirely different 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:12.400 cast I always think of like George of the Jungle. 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:14.680 And Mortal Kombat Annihilation. 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:21.360 Just some really gnarly stuff. A lot of actors in debt, 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:25.840 right Yeah. Anyways, Adams family values, which does not suffer 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:27.560 from this problem. 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:30.840 Not at all. So we see the Adams family that 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:34.560 we know and love. We've got Fester screaming at the moon. 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:40.120 Wednesday and her brother, Pugsley and their granny are burying 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:41.320 a cat alive. 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:44.480 What cats. 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:50.120 Hid Your cats? Lurch is playing the organ Gomez and 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:55.440 thing our arm wrestling. Mortitia announces that she's going to 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:59.960 have a baby right now, so the family rushes to 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:05.040 the hospital and Mortitia gives birth. They bring the baby 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:08.720 home and it looks like a miniature Gomez with a 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:13.280 little mustache in the suit and everything. Wednesday and Pugsley 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:17.160 resent the new baby and keep trying to kill it, 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:20.640 but their plans are thwarted each time. 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:22.480 Their love language. 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:28.520 Movie perfectly like encapsulates my dark humor that I've developed 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:32.880 over the years, because every single thing that happens in 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:37.200 it is so bad and hilarious, Like they're dropping the 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:40.280 baby and gor didn't hit with bowling. 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:46.000 Balls and it's comedy, it's hilarious, it's amazing. Yeah. So 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:51.600 Mortitia and Gomez are trying to be romantic because they're 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:55.680 still so horny for each other, but their hands are 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:59.360 full with three children. They try to hire a nanny. 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:01.960 Cynthia Nixon plays. 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:05.120 Like Maranda, what are you doing here? 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:09.000 Marianda? Yeah, she's one of the people who is interviewed. 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:14.200 Another is Debbie Jelinski played by Joan Cusack, who they 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:19.640 eventually hire, and they introduce her to their baby, who 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:25.320 they've named Pubert. Hilarious, awesome, saying how did. 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:25.920 They get away with it? 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:28.200 We don't know, we don't know, it doesn't matter. 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:32.200 And then did you know that David Hyde Pierce is 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:33.240 in the delivery rooms? 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:35.000 He plays a doctor Blitz second. 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:37.160 Yeah, a lot of good cameos in this too. 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:42.000 So Debbie also meets the rest of the family, and 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:46.720 when she meets Fester, he's like hubba, hubba, who's that 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:51.280 at And then Debbie moves in that night, and then 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:55.520 she watches a news report about an unknown serial killer 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:58.920 who the media has dubbed the black Widow because she 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:02.480 seeks out rich and marries them and kills them on 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:05.040 their wedding night so she can collect their money. 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:10.320 I don't remember that happening in the Avengers movies, right, 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:11.960 would have made things better. 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:13.560 It would have been much more interesting. 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:16.120 So that's why she showed up an Iron Man two. 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:21.000 I do like that they take the trouble to show 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.360 like four different pictures of Joan Cusack and various wigs. 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:28.080 I think the disguises were pretty good. Like so, I mean, 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:31.639 while Wednesday's right to say that she was sloppy, I 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:33.639 still think she was doing She was running a pretty 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:34.240 good grift. 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:37.639 It's not until she met the Adams family and she 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:38.960 was no match for them. 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:41.280 No, if she just would have been so upfront, it 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:43.720 would have been like, oh, honey, you want to. 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:46.120 That's awesome. 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:48.480 She and Martitia really could. 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:52.240 Have bonded, I think joined a polycule man and then 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:55.600 even Odder exactly. 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:58.000 Yeah, because that's the whole thing that this you know, 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:02.000 Black Widow serial Killer is bi Jelenski, and she starts 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:05.719 to go through Fester's things and finds all of his assets. 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:11.520 There's stocks, there's bonds, there's deeds to houses, all that stuff, 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:14.680 and it looks like he will be her next target. 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:19.159 But Wednesday is on too Debbie. So Debbie gets rid 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:22.760 of Wednesday by lying and telling Mortitia and Gomez that 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:25.520 the kids really really want to go to summer camp. 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:29.879 So the family arrives at Camp Chippewa. 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:33.760 Ah, yeah, it begins. 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:40.040 We'll talk about it does not mean orphan, No, it 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:45.199 does not. They drop off Wednesday and Pugsley. At the camp, 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:51.120 the kids meet a spoiled rich girl named Amanda, as 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:55.600 well as the camp directors, Becky and Gary played by 0:18:55.840 --> 0:19:02.080 Christine Branski and Peter McNichol, who I recognized from Ghostbusters two. 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:07.439 Oh okay, yes. They also meet another camper, Joel. This 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:12.400 is the David Crumholtz character, and he and Wednesday make 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:18.000 eyes at each other. Meanwhile, back at the Adams family home, 0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:21.879 Debbie is there with Fester and she's working on getting 0:19:22.040 --> 0:19:25.360 him to fall in love with her, and she is succeeding. 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:30.240 A double date is arranged Mortitia and Gomez and Fester 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:33.040 and Debbie. They go out to dinner. There's this whole 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:38.120 scene where Morticia and Gomez do like a tango dance number. 0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:39.760 That's a great number. 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:45.400 It's great that inspired an entire generation of bisexuals. They 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:47.399 know it because it was the nineties, and. 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:54.360 It was yeah, everyone in that scene is cooking. I 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:57.920 love that they're like getting off on making the other jealous, 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:01.679 Like it's just oh, it's so good, it's so good. Yeah, 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:03.840 and then cutting back to Uncle. 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:05.760 Fester doing that. What does he do? 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:08.480 He's like showing he's like sticking dreadsticks up. 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:17.000 Oh, yes, it's just just no, no, it's perfect hilarious. 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:20.440 And then later that night, Fester and Debbie are alone 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:25.720 and she tells him that she's a virgin. Obviously she's lying, 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:32.320 but he very sincerely is like me too, and she 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:37.280 professes her like you know, love for him, aka she's 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:43.959 manipulating him, and they get engaged. Meanwhile, at camp, Wednesday 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:47.280 is having a terrible time among all of the rich 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:53.320 blonde children, especially that girl Amanda. The camp directors put 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:57.720 Wednesday and Pugsley in this like time out cabin or 0:20:57.760 --> 0:21:03.919 it's called like army house hardy House. Little David Crumholtz 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:08.080 is sent there as well. He and Wednesday continued to 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:12.080 vibe with each other and the three of them try 0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:15.959 to escape the camp because Wednesday has learned that her 0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:18.639 uncle Fester is engaged and she wants to try to 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:21.600 put an end to it, but the campers and camp 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:25.159 directors catch them and stop them from leaving. They like 0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:27.320 sing Kumbaya at them. 0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:31.320 They just can't stop appropriating. I can't, I can't, they can't. 0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:33.480 Act of positivity is a weapon. 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:39.200 And yeah, oh yeah, oh my god, absolutely so at 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:43.880 the house, Fester and Debbie have an engagement party slash 0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:49.960 like joint bachelor slash bachelorette parties. Fester is still oblivious 0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:54.000 that Debbie is conning him. Then they have their wedding. 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:59.720 The whole Adam's family is there, including the kids plus Joel. 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:03.760 He got invited to the wedding and they managed to 0:22:03.840 --> 0:22:06.600 leave the camp. Then we cut to Fester and Debbie's 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:11.320 honeymoon in Hawaii, where she tries to kill him by 0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:15.600 throwing a stereo in the bathtub while he's in it, 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:18.359 but just turns him on. 0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:20.760 He's like, this is so awesome. 0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:25.600 So now Debbie is pissed that he's still alive and 0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:29.640 grossed out because now he wants to consummate their marriage 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:35.400 and have sex ever heard of it? And she's like, okay, 0:22:35.480 --> 0:22:38.680 but after we make love, you can never see your 0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:48.400 family again, and he's reluctant, but anyone else. Yeah, honestly 0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:49.800 a pretty pretty cool move. 0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:57.040 He got tries so upset that he's alive. It's so mad, 0:22:57.200 --> 0:23:03.680 and then it's like, oh my god, Christopher Lloyd's fucking face. See. 0:23:04.160 --> 0:23:09.080 I was surprised at like how in detail that seed 0:23:09.200 --> 0:23:11.240 goes into, because I feel like with the kids movies, 0:23:11.320 --> 0:23:14.880 you usually get like an implication, but they're just they're 0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:18.000 just having a frank discussion about fucking. 0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:20.879 Well while he's inside her question mark. 0:23:21.280 --> 0:23:25.560 It's unclear. I watched it. I'm glad it's not clearer, 0:23:25.600 --> 0:23:28.040 but the fact that it's a possibility is wild. 0:23:28.680 --> 0:23:30.959 I think the only reason that it could do that 0:23:31.160 --> 0:23:35.920 was because Gomes and Morticia or clearly fucking like the 0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:39.480 entire time through both movies, it's true. And the movie 0:23:39.600 --> 0:23:43.080 even begins with Wednesday. You know that girl's like the 0:23:43.119 --> 0:23:45.800 diamond under the cabbage patch turned into a baby and 0:23:45.840 --> 0:23:47.520 Wednesday's like our sand sucks. 0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:53.520 That's hilarious joke anyway, So he Fester doesn't want to 0:23:53.560 --> 0:23:56.679 cut ties with his family. He's very reluctant, but he 0:23:56.800 --> 0:24:03.200 agrees because he's so freaking horny. Many such cases, the 0:24:03.600 --> 0:24:06.880 leaps in logic that we all do because of horniness, 0:24:06.920 --> 0:24:10.600 you know, yeah, Okay, So then they return from their honeymoon. 0:24:11.119 --> 0:24:14.680 Debbie is still furious that Fester is alive, but she's 0:24:14.760 --> 0:24:17.040 kind of accepted that he's going to be sticking around, 0:24:17.200 --> 0:24:20.800 so she gives him a makeover with like a bowl cut. 0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:24.320 He seems to be into it. 0:24:25.960 --> 0:24:29.080 She is a dom, he is a sub. And then 0:24:29.200 --> 0:24:32.480 they move into a mansion while the rest of the 0:24:32.520 --> 0:24:35.919 family receives word that Fester can never see them again, 0:24:36.320 --> 0:24:40.120 and they're like, what the fuck. So Morticia and Gomez 0:24:40.200 --> 0:24:43.480 go to Debbie and Fester's new house to be like, Debbie, 0:24:43.560 --> 0:24:46.480 U succubis, let us see Fester. 0:24:46.720 --> 0:24:51.960 And then the iconic but Debbie Pastels moment is so good. 0:24:52.560 --> 0:24:57.040 Yeah, and I love that Mortitia respects the hell out 0:24:57.080 --> 0:25:01.760 of it. Yeah, it's like you, you've put him under 0:25:01.800 --> 0:25:05.600 some sexual seductive spell. I respect that. 0:25:06.480 --> 0:25:12.960 But Debbie, it's so and I love the like the 0:25:13.000 --> 0:25:17.800 Angelica Houston lighting. She's just so movie star, her little 0:25:17.880 --> 0:25:22.080 eye line light that just irrationally follows her throughout everything, 0:25:22.160 --> 0:25:23.399 and I just love it. 0:25:23.400 --> 0:25:27.480 It's so good. So, yeah, they they confront Debbie, but 0:25:27.920 --> 0:25:31.840 she refuses to let them see Fester, who is cowering 0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:36.320 in the corner, too afraid of Debbie to defy her, 0:25:37.920 --> 0:25:41.000 so the family goes to the police and tries to 0:25:41.160 --> 0:25:47.040 report Debbie parentheses ACAB include Nathan Lane playing a cop. 0:25:47.400 --> 0:25:48.359 That was that was. 0:25:48.640 --> 0:25:52.840 That was a hard one. That's a hard one. But nonetheless, 0:25:53.840 --> 0:25:57.320 because the police are useless, they do nothing to help 0:25:57.480 --> 0:25:58.000 the family. 0:25:58.320 --> 0:26:02.920 Wow, that's a that's a shock, right, They never do that. 0:26:02.920 --> 0:26:04.280 They're usually so competent. 0:26:04.440 --> 0:26:10.480 And oh yeah, meanwhile, the kids are back at the 0:26:10.680 --> 0:26:16.040 summer camp and the camp directors are organizing a play 0:26:16.240 --> 0:26:19.040 about the First Thanksgiving. 0:26:18.920 --> 0:26:21.720 And you know that they're obsessed with this racist story 0:26:21.760 --> 0:26:25.159 because they're doing it in the summer for some reason. Ye, 0:26:25.400 --> 0:26:27.800 Like yeah, fuck, And. 0:26:28.080 --> 0:26:31.560 Like it makes even less sense because that's not even 0:26:31.560 --> 0:26:33.800 the tribe. I mean, like, it's not gonna make sense 0:26:33.840 --> 0:26:34.200 for car. 0:26:34.280 --> 0:26:38.240 It's not the tribe. Pocahontas was not at the First Thanksgiving. 0:26:38.240 --> 0:26:43.359 Because Wednesday gets cast as Pocahontas. They start rehearsing the play. 0:26:43.960 --> 0:26:47.840 It is horrendous for many reasons. Obviously we'll talk a 0:26:47.840 --> 0:26:53.520 lot about this more, but Wednesday, Pugsley and Joel are like, Okay, 0:26:53.560 --> 0:26:57.399 this sucks. We don't want to participate in your awful play. 0:26:58.080 --> 0:27:00.760 So they are sent back to the Harmon House and 0:27:00.800 --> 0:27:06.160 made to watch a bunch of like uplifting family friendly media, 0:27:06.320 --> 0:27:10.199 Disney movies, Sound of Music, Brady Bunch Annie, all that 0:27:10.240 --> 0:27:15.000 kind of stuff to fix their bad attitude. Meanwhile, Pubert 0:27:15.160 --> 0:27:20.240 the baby seems to be sick or possessed because he 0:27:20.320 --> 0:27:24.840 suddenly looks like a more traditional cute baby with like 0:27:25.119 --> 0:27:28.800 rosy cheeks and blonde curls. 0:27:29.280 --> 0:27:32.040 He likes Doctor Seuss books, he wants the cat in 0:27:32.080 --> 0:27:33.280 the Hat so good. 0:27:33.560 --> 0:27:36.800 Yeah, Hubert looks like me when I was a baby, 0:27:36.840 --> 0:27:39.919 because exactly what my hair used to look like? 0:27:40.160 --> 0:27:41.600 Oh wow, Okay, I don't know. 0:27:41.640 --> 0:27:44.680 And then I guess I decolonize because now it's uh 0:27:44.720 --> 0:27:46.200 this color and gray. 0:27:47.680 --> 0:27:52.480 Yeah. Anyway, so they think Pubert is possessed maybe because 0:27:52.760 --> 0:27:56.480 of this like troubled family life ordeal that they're going through. 0:27:56.520 --> 0:28:00.560 Fester abandoning them, and so they work on trying to 0:28:00.560 --> 0:28:04.200 fix this. Cut back to the camp, it is time 0:28:04.359 --> 0:28:10.760 for the Thanksgiving play. Obviously, it's very whitewashed revisionist history 0:28:10.880 --> 0:28:16.040 version of the Thanksgiving narrative. So Wednesday goes off script 0:28:16.520 --> 0:28:22.760 gives a monologue about colonialism, stolen land modern day injustices 0:28:22.920 --> 0:28:26.200 that native people face, and then she and the other 0:28:27.000 --> 0:28:32.000 native characters in the play literally burn the set of 0:28:32.040 --> 0:28:36.119 the play and tie up that snobby rich girl Amanda, 0:28:36.440 --> 0:28:39.760 who had been cast as like the lead pilgrim woman. 0:28:40.480 --> 0:28:45.160 The whole thing is chaos. It's very cathartic, so good, 0:28:46.120 --> 0:28:51.280 and then Wednesday and Pugsley escape. After Wednesday and Joel 0:28:51.640 --> 0:28:57.280 share a heartfelt goodbye. Back at Fester and Debbie's house, 0:28:58.160 --> 0:29:01.840 she wraps up a b as a birthday present for Fester, 0:29:02.480 --> 0:29:05.680 once again trying to kill him, but he's like, oh 0:29:05.760 --> 0:29:08.240 my god, is this a bomb? Thank you so much. 0:29:09.720 --> 0:29:12.400 But she leaves the house and goes to a bar 0:29:12.560 --> 0:29:15.440 where Tony Shaloub is singing Macho Man. 0:29:16.800 --> 0:29:17.680 As you do. 0:29:17.720 --> 0:29:20.360 Just then you think it couldn't get any better. There's 0:29:20.520 --> 0:29:22.760 Tony Shaloub at a bar singing Macho Man. 0:29:24.120 --> 0:29:28.200 And then I guess the idea is like Debbie leaves 0:29:28.480 --> 0:29:31.520 so that the house can explode and then she'll come 0:29:31.560 --> 0:29:35.280 back to be like, oh no, my poor husband. But 0:29:35.920 --> 0:29:40.080 Fester survives the explosion, so Debbie pulls a gun on 0:29:40.200 --> 0:29:42.600 him and admits that she doesn't love him, that she 0:29:42.640 --> 0:29:45.479 wants to kill him, and take his money. But before 0:29:45.520 --> 0:29:49.880 she can do any of that, Thing the Adams family 0:29:49.960 --> 0:29:54.760 disembodied hand runs Debbie over with a car and rescues 0:29:54.960 --> 0:29:56.520 Fester and they drive off. 0:29:56.840 --> 0:30:01.280 Upon this most recent viewing, there's a piece of dialogue 0:30:01.320 --> 0:30:05.240 earlier on in the movie where Fester was talking about 0:30:05.240 --> 0:30:10.720 how he's been jealous of Gomez and Mortitia's relationship, and 0:30:11.440 --> 0:30:14.880 Gomez says something like, well, you have Thing, And I 0:30:15.000 --> 0:30:16.120 was like, has Thing. 0:30:16.080 --> 0:30:20.160 Been jerking off Fester this whole time? 0:30:20.400 --> 0:30:23.640 And then Thing comes and saves him from the woman 0:30:23.680 --> 0:30:25.640 who stole him away from him. 0:30:25.720 --> 0:30:31.880 So, look, everything in this family is fluid, and don't 0:30:31.960 --> 0:30:36.920 worry about it. What happens in Adam's manner stays in 0:30:37.000 --> 0:30:42.160 Adam's manner. I also love cousin it and his wife. 0:30:42.520 --> 0:30:45.960 That was a really fun, touchy but he's got a 0:30:46.240 --> 0:30:48.560 he's got a normy wife and they seem very happy. 0:30:48.840 --> 0:30:51.520 And then then they have a baby, and what a 0:30:51.640 --> 0:30:52.280 cute kid. 0:30:53.200 --> 0:30:55.720 I gotta tell you guys something. Yeah, it was me. 0:30:56.120 --> 0:30:56.920 I was cousin it. 0:31:00.960 --> 0:31:07.520 A celeb unkenny. I'm Kenny resemblance of Okay. So back 0:31:07.600 --> 0:31:12.600 at the Adams family home, Mortitia is trying to care 0:31:12.720 --> 0:31:17.560 for this new version of her baby, and Gomez is 0:31:17.640 --> 0:31:21.880 like bedridden and dying. I'm not really sure what's going 0:31:21.920 --> 0:31:25.960 on there no extra But then Fester returns home, as 0:31:26.040 --> 0:31:29.600 do the children, so the family reunites. But oh no, 0:31:29.720 --> 0:31:33.360 Debbie shows up with a rifle and puts the whole 0:31:33.400 --> 0:31:36.760 family in a bunch of electric chairs, shows them a 0:31:36.920 --> 0:31:40.360 slide show of all the people she has murdered, her 0:31:40.400 --> 0:31:44.520 past husbands and her parents when she was ten years 0:31:44.520 --> 0:31:47.720 old because they gave her Malibu Barbie instead of Ballerina Barbie. 0:31:47.960 --> 0:31:51.520 Incredible, incredible because then her parents might have taken it 0:31:51.560 --> 0:31:54.080 too far. But who else does Debbie kill? She kills 0:31:54.080 --> 0:31:57.000 a doctor because he's snipped dinner because the pope had 0:31:57.120 --> 0:32:01.160 a cold, not a girl. And she kills a senator 0:32:01.360 --> 0:32:02.680 and there's nothing wrong with that. 0:32:03.480 --> 0:32:07.479 Yeah, yeah, some of some of Debbie's crimes. 0:32:07.520 --> 0:32:08.840 You're like, I support it. 0:32:08.960 --> 0:32:10.760 Yeah, wait, you know whatever, it's valid. 0:32:11.840 --> 0:32:12.120 Yeah. 0:32:12.160 --> 0:32:15.800 So, meanwhile, the only family member who Debbie didn't tie 0:32:15.880 --> 0:32:19.760 up is baby Pubert. He's on the loose, looking like 0:32:19.800 --> 0:32:23.920 a mini Gomez again, you know, zipping around the house 0:32:24.080 --> 0:32:29.240 and setting in motion a final destination style Rube Goldberg 0:32:30.120 --> 0:32:36.240 thing that electrocutes Debbie and turns her to dust. We 0:32:36.360 --> 0:32:40.160 cut to sometime later, the Adams family is safe and 0:32:40.520 --> 0:32:48.200 together and back to their normal cousin It and It's wife, 0:32:48.680 --> 0:32:54.240 Margaret and their baby come over for baby Pubert's first 0:32:54.320 --> 0:33:00.720 birthday party and bring along their nanny, Dementia, who seems 0:33:00.760 --> 0:33:05.200 like a very good match for Fester because they look identical. 0:33:06.720 --> 0:33:10.840 And Joel also comes to see Wednesday, and the movie 0:33:10.920 --> 0:33:15.160 ends with Joel being like, oh, Wednesday, I hope we 0:33:15.200 --> 0:33:18.680 can get married one day, and she's like, ooh, gross, 0:33:18.880 --> 0:33:23.360 cool it. And then she's like, I'd rather be like 0:33:23.440 --> 0:33:26.560 Debbie and kill my husband, except she was sloppy and 0:33:26.640 --> 0:33:28.800 I would get away with it. And then she plays 0:33:28.840 --> 0:33:35.200 a little graveyard prank on Joel the end. Oh, and 0:33:35.240 --> 0:33:38.719 then the credit song is I forget when episode We 0:33:38.720 --> 0:33:41.280 were just talking about this on Jamie, but when you 0:33:41.320 --> 0:33:44.400 were like, Oh, I miss the days when the credit 0:33:44.480 --> 0:33:47.840 song was a rap recap. 0:33:48.040 --> 0:33:51.480 Oh my god, this is such a good one. This 0:33:51.520 --> 0:33:56.520 one it like it makes no sense and therefore it's perfect. Yeah, 0:33:56.600 --> 0:34:00.000 I love it. What did they call it a fish? 0:34:00.600 --> 0:34:02.160 It has such a funny title. 0:34:02.400 --> 0:34:03.840 Oh, I don't even know. 0:34:04.040 --> 0:34:06.440 Yeah, the last movie I saw they did that recently 0:34:06.880 --> 0:34:11.680 was PG Psycho gore Man, where they had like some 0:34:12.160 --> 0:34:17.680 nineties not nineties, like eighties white rapper. I guess summarize 0:34:17.719 --> 0:34:18.160 the video. 0:34:18.880 --> 0:34:20.760 Okay, it's called Adam's Family. 0:34:20.840 --> 0:34:24.440 Woomp. That's okay. Oh yeah, they're sort of like that. 0:34:24.520 --> 0:34:25.600 Woomp. There. 0:34:25.960 --> 0:34:29.080 Yeah, it's it couldn't be more nineteen ninety three if 0:34:29.120 --> 0:34:31.000 it wanted to be. It's Adams Family. 0:34:31.040 --> 0:34:31.360 Woomp. 0:34:32.320 --> 0:34:34.200 You are seeing you are valued? 0:34:35.239 --> 0:34:37.399 Yes, okay, so let's take a quick break and we'll 0:34:37.400 --> 0:34:42.400 come back to discuss. 0:34:48.560 --> 0:34:51.880 And we're back, Ali, We're going to kick it to you. 0:34:51.920 --> 0:34:53.000 Where would you like to start? 0:34:53.600 --> 0:34:58.600 Oh? Okay, Well, first of all, perfect casting all around. 0:34:58.880 --> 0:35:03.080 Everybody in this movie is perfectly cast. I would love, like, 0:35:03.120 --> 0:35:05.200 I know you haven't seen Wednesday, and I've only seen 0:35:05.239 --> 0:35:09.760 like a couple episodes on the Netflix. The Netflix Wednesday. Yeah, 0:35:09.800 --> 0:35:13.920 but Sabrina Carpenter had Jenna Ortega and her music video 0:35:14.000 --> 0:35:17.640 for Taste, and it was a very death becomes Her, 0:35:18.600 --> 0:35:23.000 very morbid, but very funny and very toxic lesbian. You know, 0:35:23.920 --> 0:35:28.960 it's great, And Sabrina Carpenter could totally be Debbie on Wednesday, 0:35:29.280 --> 0:35:31.520 and I just think that would make things perfect. 0:35:32.160 --> 0:35:34.920 That would rock young Debbie. 0:35:34.840 --> 0:35:38.640 They do it right this time, or it was like 0:35:38.680 --> 0:35:43.319 Debbie's niece or something like right sure, Sabrina Jelenski. 0:35:44.680 --> 0:35:46.200 Oh, I'm waiting. 0:35:46.440 --> 0:35:47.440 That would be perfect. 0:35:47.520 --> 0:35:48.000 And then. 0:35:49.400 --> 0:35:52.560 Wow, where else do I begin? Like I'm going through 0:35:52.560 --> 0:35:54.000 my moods right now? What else? 0:35:54.080 --> 0:35:56.200 Here's seventy seventy places to stay? 0:35:56.280 --> 0:35:56.440 Oh. 0:35:56.520 --> 0:36:00.920 Someone said on Tumblr or something about how beheading all 0:36:00.920 --> 0:36:04.319 the billionaires would include Gomes Adams because he's got all 0:36:04.320 --> 0:36:05.919 that money, and I was like, you know, he would 0:36:05.960 --> 0:36:06.840 just be so honored. 0:36:08.160 --> 0:36:11.080 Yeah, I say, I think he'd be like, you know what, 0:36:11.560 --> 0:36:12.719 you got me, I deserve it. 0:36:12.800 --> 0:36:14.400 You got me guys guillotine me. 0:36:14.840 --> 0:36:18.279 So Pupert has a little baby guilloty on top of 0:36:18.320 --> 0:36:20.320 his birthday cake and I want one. 0:36:20.560 --> 0:36:21.080 Amazing. 0:36:21.280 --> 0:36:25.839 I love usually a movie where the premise is and 0:36:25.880 --> 0:36:29.680 now there's a baby, it's so hit or miss premise wise, 0:36:29.719 --> 0:36:34.160 but like Pupert Ooh, I love that baby. He's he's 0:36:34.200 --> 0:36:37.560 a great addition. He just makes sense. He's just as evil. 0:36:37.680 --> 0:36:39.200 I love his little mustache. 0:36:39.320 --> 0:36:42.799 And the story doesn't get lost in like I don't know, 0:36:42.920 --> 0:36:46.080 like what now there's a baby, which I just like. 0:36:46.080 --> 0:36:48.799 It is a very tired plot point like, yeah, there's 0:36:48.800 --> 0:36:50.440 a baby, the kids are trying to kill. 0:36:50.360 --> 0:36:52.000 Him, classic narrative. 0:36:52.120 --> 0:36:53.600 Yeah, and he's kind of loving it. 0:36:55.160 --> 0:36:59.919 Yeah, right, and all that. Wednesday plays with a gea 0:37:00.400 --> 0:37:03.239 with the baby dressed up as Marie Antoinette, and I 0:37:03.360 --> 0:37:08.000 was children paying attention to comrade Wednesday. 0:37:08.920 --> 0:37:14.719 Fun fact, Hubert the baby is played by twin babies, 0:37:15.320 --> 0:37:18.600 as like children and babies often are in movies because 0:37:18.640 --> 0:37:21.160 it's like they need a break, We'll swap out this 0:37:21.239 --> 0:37:24.120 one for the other one. Yeah, but the babies are 0:37:24.320 --> 0:37:30.880 twin girls named Kristen and Caitlyn Hooper. But Caitlyn spelled 0:37:30.920 --> 0:37:34.000 the wrong way, so I can't forgive that. 0:37:34.520 --> 0:37:38.600 So the baby with the little mustaches, that's adorable. 0:37:40.719 --> 0:37:42.879 Something that stood out to me. I mean, this movie 0:37:42.920 --> 0:37:45.840 is doing so much cultural commentary. Obviously we're going to 0:37:45.920 --> 0:37:48.000 spend a lot of time on the Thanksgiving play, but 0:37:48.040 --> 0:37:49.720 I just wanted to shout out a few other things 0:37:49.719 --> 0:37:52.640 that popped out that I had to like put on 0:37:52.880 --> 0:37:57.960 nineteen ninety three goggles to understand. There's a few contemporary references. 0:37:58.239 --> 0:38:02.920 There's obviously the Michael Jackson reference, which I had to do. 0:38:03.800 --> 0:38:06.840 I mean, like I had a feeling why it was included, 0:38:07.719 --> 0:38:11.120 but I was like, well, like, where was that cultural 0:38:11.160 --> 0:38:15.000 discourse at at the time, And it ended up being 0:38:15.120 --> 0:38:20.280 actually quite personal to the movie, specifically because Michael Jackson 0:38:20.320 --> 0:38:22.440 was originally going to appear in this movie. Yeah I 0:38:22.520 --> 0:38:25.959 read that, and so yes, I'm pulling from scholarly journal 0:38:26.000 --> 0:38:29.080 Wikipedia here. He was supposed to have a song in 0:38:29.120 --> 0:38:32.680 the movie called family Thing. The song is rumored to 0:38:32.719 --> 0:38:36.200 have been removed due to the child's sexual abuse allegations 0:38:36.200 --> 0:38:40.440 against Jackson, but the truth is it was a contractual difference, 0:38:40.680 --> 0:38:42.400 so we don't know if they would have included it. 0:38:42.440 --> 0:38:44.760 If they could have, it seems like they probably wouldn't 0:38:44.800 --> 0:38:48.279 have because of the way he's referenced that Yeah, he's 0:38:48.320 --> 0:38:52.879 referenced like visually and Joel is terrified of him, which 0:38:52.920 --> 0:38:56.120 I'm sure got a big laugh in nineteen ninety three. 0:38:56.280 --> 0:39:00.920 I personally don't like when they use his accurance to 0:39:01.640 --> 0:39:04.239 like seem like that's the source of horror when it's 0:39:05.200 --> 0:39:08.120 the act. Maybe just don't reference him at all. It 0:39:08.200 --> 0:39:10.200 is my fat And then I felt the same way 0:39:10.239 --> 0:39:15.359 about the Amy Fisher reference, which is also so nineties 0:39:15.800 --> 0:39:18.239 in a way that like in a movie that generally 0:39:18.719 --> 0:39:23.560 is pushing back on popular narratives. I don't know. Listen 0:39:23.560 --> 0:39:26.120 to the year wrang About episode about Amy Fisher. It's 0:39:26.160 --> 0:39:31.680 like a classic mischaracterization of a teenager who is being groomed. 0:39:33.040 --> 0:39:35.839 So there was that. I also didn't know that the 0:39:36.080 --> 0:39:40.800 title is a reference to a dan Quail speech question 0:39:40.920 --> 0:39:46.279 mark yeah, okay, also pulling from scholarly journal Wikipedia here. 0:39:46.520 --> 0:39:49.160 Of course, the family values in the film's title is 0:39:49.200 --> 0:39:51.520 a tongue in cheek reference by the writer to a 0:39:51.600 --> 0:39:56.640 nineteen ninety two speech called Reflections on Urban America made 0:39:56.680 --> 0:39:59.800 by then Vice presidential candidate Dan Quayle. In the speech, 0:40:00.120 --> 0:40:04.440 Quail controversially blamed the nineteen ninety two Los Angeles riots 0:40:04.480 --> 0:40:07.600 on a breakdown of quote unquote family values, which is, 0:40:08.520 --> 0:40:11.960 you know, we don't need to tell you that's unbelievably racist. 0:40:12.800 --> 0:40:15.520 But I just didn't realize that the title was pulling 0:40:15.600 --> 0:40:19.920 from something. Yeah, both like very recent and very specific, 0:40:20.200 --> 0:40:22.919 and that is a culture reference that I'm like, yeah, 0:40:22.960 --> 0:40:25.640 that's a fun fuck you uh to Dan Quayle. 0:40:26.480 --> 0:40:29.520 Similarly, I would say that there are a couple jokes 0:40:29.760 --> 0:40:35.400 in the movie that just feel quite reductive. Most of 0:40:35.440 --> 0:40:37.680 the jokes in the movie are hilarious, and great, and 0:40:37.719 --> 0:40:39.960 I have a list of my favorites, but there's for. 0:40:39.960 --> 0:40:43.880 Nineteen ninety three is an accomplishment truly that more of 0:40:43.880 --> 0:40:45.120 it agees well than doesn't. 0:40:45.200 --> 0:40:49.719 Yeah, definitely. There's a joke where like that implies that 0:40:50.000 --> 0:40:54.880 Gomez infest jerk off to a pin up style nude 0:40:54.920 --> 0:40:59.200 image of their mom and we're like, okay, insects and 0:40:59.520 --> 0:41:05.719 miss art. Dang, yeah that's there. There's an there's a 0:41:05.840 --> 0:41:10.840 joke that's judgy toward anyone who has had cosmetic surgery 0:41:11.040 --> 0:41:13.920 that Wednesday makes the where it's like, oh, all the 0:41:13.960 --> 0:41:20.239 girls woke up with their original noses and they're like, so, 0:41:20.320 --> 0:41:24.239 she's like shamy of that. Christopher Lloyd is in a 0:41:24.280 --> 0:41:28.160 fat suit to play Fester. So you know, there are 0:41:28.360 --> 0:41:31.840 some things that don't age very well. 0:41:32.239 --> 0:41:36.120 But as a person with an overbite, let me tell 0:41:36.160 --> 0:41:40.440 you when oh, yeah that one your bathing suit, is 0:41:40.440 --> 0:41:43.680 that your overboy brutal? 0:41:44.040 --> 0:41:47.360 Yeah, I guess with the with the joke about nose jobs, 0:41:47.360 --> 0:41:50.240 I felt like that was, Yeah, that's cruel of Wednesday, 0:41:50.239 --> 0:41:52.360 But I felt that they were trying to get at 0:41:52.640 --> 0:41:57.520 the waspiness of the girl she was talking to. It 0:41:57.520 --> 0:41:58.759 could have been a different joke. 0:41:59.760 --> 0:42:02.800 That's thing, like she could have commented on her whatever 0:42:02.880 --> 0:42:05.799 class privilege or something, didn't need to make a dig 0:42:05.840 --> 0:42:09.000 at anyone's appearance. But she does that a couple of times. 0:42:09.440 --> 0:42:17.040 She also tries to kill a baby. I mean problematic, problematically, yeah, 0:42:17.080 --> 0:42:19.640 and then I mean, yeah, the big, the big discussion 0:42:19.760 --> 0:42:23.720 to have here is the I mean the summer camp 0:42:23.719 --> 0:42:28.040 it itself and then the specific play that they put on. 0:42:28.360 --> 0:42:35.759 But yeah, so overall, it's I think a pretty effective 0:42:36.000 --> 0:42:40.640 satire of like American summer camp culture, where it's this 0:42:41.200 --> 0:42:46.360 camp for like privileged children who you know are just 0:42:46.840 --> 0:42:50.800 children with rich parents. Almost every child there is white. 0:42:51.000 --> 0:42:54.359 Almost all of them are blonde. Like you see shot 0:42:54.480 --> 0:42:57.200 like wide shots of like forty kids, and they're all 0:42:57.360 --> 0:43:03.920 just these blonde children. There's commentary on class and white 0:43:03.920 --> 0:43:08.960 supremacy and how non native people and especially white people, 0:43:09.680 --> 0:43:15.479 appropriate indigenous cultures, treat Native people as a monolith, act 0:43:15.520 --> 0:43:18.640 as though Native people don't exist anymore, that they're a 0:43:18.680 --> 0:43:19.279 thing of the. 0:43:19.200 --> 0:43:23.719 Past, completely make up the name, like say that the 0:43:23.800 --> 0:43:27.280 name of it, yes, scribe is because it's not orphan. 0:43:27.680 --> 0:43:32.040 What happened was is that Chippewa is what the colonizers 0:43:32.040 --> 0:43:35.040 heard when they said, oh, jibwa, and they thought, because 0:43:35.480 --> 0:43:38.239 how you spell it? And I'm sure how you say it? 0:43:38.920 --> 0:43:41.760 Before there was like a written language for these words. 0:43:41.800 --> 0:43:45.719 They were like, oh, chippewa instead of ojibwa or ojibwa. 0:43:47.480 --> 0:43:49.440 That's what it is. It doesn't mean orphan. I forget 0:43:49.480 --> 0:43:53.400 what it means. It means something. It means something very weird, 0:43:54.280 --> 0:43:56.960 like if I recall correctly, but I forgot what it was. 0:43:57.200 --> 0:43:58.440 I can look it up somewhere. 0:43:59.280 --> 0:44:03.680 But racist brain cell to be shared among these colonizers. 0:44:03.719 --> 0:44:08.480 It's just like sough. I was curious. I guess I 0:44:08.520 --> 0:44:12.320 was curious if either of you. I hadn't thought about 0:44:12.360 --> 0:44:14.360 this in a long time, but I was talking about 0:44:14.360 --> 0:44:18.120 this movie with my brother, and we grew up in Massachusetts, 0:44:18.280 --> 0:44:23.960 where misrepresentation of Native history, I feel like, is particularly egregious, 0:44:24.680 --> 0:44:27.800 and we were talking about it wasn't a camp quite 0:44:27.920 --> 0:44:30.399 like this, but it's one of the or at least 0:44:30.400 --> 0:44:32.400 at the time in the late nineties early two thousands, 0:44:32.480 --> 0:44:36.399 was a default field trip that you would take in 0:44:36.440 --> 0:44:42.040 public schools to a place called Camp Squanto in Massachusetts. 0:44:42.080 --> 0:44:43.759 And so I did a little bit of research into it, 0:44:43.800 --> 0:44:47.799 because again, this seems like, it's a very like the 0:44:47.920 --> 0:44:50.040 camp that the Atoms are going to is a rich 0:44:50.120 --> 0:44:52.920 kid camp. This is a publicly owned camp that I 0:44:52.960 --> 0:44:57.479 think mostly boy Scouts use, but it has this very 0:44:58.280 --> 0:45:03.040 racist history that it doesn't seem like unlike you know, 0:45:03.239 --> 0:45:05.560 at very least there has been push back on the 0:45:05.560 --> 0:45:08.279 way Plymouth Plantation, another field trip I had to go on, 0:45:09.000 --> 0:45:09.880 is portrayed. 0:45:09.920 --> 0:45:11.719 There hasn't really been any. 0:45:11.760 --> 0:45:13.960 Motion on camps like this, but I just wanted to 0:45:14.640 --> 0:45:17.160 talk about it a little bit because I do like 0:45:17.280 --> 0:45:19.279 once my brother brought it up, I was like, oh, 0:45:19.320 --> 0:45:24.360 I clearly remember going to Camp Squanto as a kid, 0:45:24.400 --> 0:45:29.759 which is you know, Squanto is yet another like misrepresented name. 0:45:30.520 --> 0:45:34.000 I looked into how the website portrays and I want 0:45:34.040 --> 0:45:38.799 to make sure I'm saying his actual name correctly. It's 0:45:38.880 --> 0:45:44.320 to Squantum, and he's He's a popular, falsely portrayed cultural 0:45:44.320 --> 0:45:45.440 figure in Massachusetts. 0:45:45.520 --> 0:45:46.960 I've learned about him all the time. 0:45:46.800 --> 0:45:50.560 Growing up, and the narrative that is attributed to him 0:45:50.640 --> 0:45:55.239 is that he was an indigenous person who helped the 0:45:55.280 --> 0:45:59.920 pilgrims and who like you know, helped them understand how 0:46:00.080 --> 0:46:03.719 the land worked. And he was presented as like helpful 0:46:04.080 --> 0:46:07.359 to colonizers and that that was a good thing. And 0:46:07.400 --> 0:46:11.320 that's why they named this weird camp after him, the Camp, 0:46:11.840 --> 0:46:14.160 And it seems like a lot of similar camps like 0:46:14.200 --> 0:46:16.960 it in New England. There's also a Camp Squanto in 0:46:17.000 --> 0:46:21.160 New Hampshire that's even worse because it's an explicitly Christian camp, 0:46:21.640 --> 0:46:29.759 which makes is what do you even say this that 0:46:31.160 --> 0:46:34.359 I was like, I was like, I don't want to 0:46:34.400 --> 0:46:38.319 bring these, but yeah, it's Camp Squanto invites campers to 0:46:38.360 --> 0:46:41.279 experience the love of Christ outside of four walls in 0:46:41.320 --> 0:46:44.080 a unique transforming environment. This is what wasn't the place 0:46:44.120 --> 0:46:47.560 I went. It was a federally owned piece of land, 0:46:47.680 --> 0:46:50.000 but nonetheless it is a piece of land that is 0:46:50.000 --> 0:46:53.400 dedicated to teaching kids, most of whom are not native, 0:46:53.920 --> 0:46:58.680 this false version of to Squantum. It opened in July 0:46:58.800 --> 0:47:03.280 nineteen twenty five, so it wasn't even originally integrated. Obviously 0:47:03.320 --> 0:47:06.160 by the time I went, it was. But it was 0:47:06.200 --> 0:47:09.600 a camp for white kids all over Massachusetts to learn 0:47:09.600 --> 0:47:12.680 a false version of history. And to this day it 0:47:12.760 --> 0:47:17.000 is very popular. It is still where boy Scouts will 0:47:17.040 --> 0:47:22.319 go and camp year round. And I guess I just 0:47:22.360 --> 0:47:25.759 I don't know I hadn't really connected that. Even though 0:47:26.000 --> 0:47:28.600 it's not the exact same kind of camp, it has 0:47:28.640 --> 0:47:33.280 a similar mission, which is just mis education and misrepresentation 0:47:33.520 --> 0:47:41.520 of history to serve the American project. So that's unfortunately, 0:47:41.600 --> 0:47:43.120 Camp Squanto in this. 0:47:43.120 --> 0:47:46.920 Movie seems very aware of all these types of camps 0:47:46.960 --> 0:47:52.520 that are all over Turtle Island and is satirizing them 0:47:52.719 --> 0:47:59.120 by way of this play that goes a little differently 0:47:59.160 --> 0:48:03.320 than the camp directors are expecting. So yeah, Ali, we're 0:48:03.400 --> 0:48:06.959 curious on your take on this. 0:48:07.600 --> 0:48:12.240 Well, Okay, first of all, I remember that ojiboy, the 0:48:12.320 --> 0:48:16.239 word is like kind of in reference to this is 0:48:16.239 --> 0:48:20.040 so silly, Like puckered up is more or less because 0:48:20.239 --> 0:48:24.960 the way we wear they would wear our moccasins is like, 0:48:25.040 --> 0:48:27.640 I don't know, the moccasins have like puckered scenes or 0:48:27.640 --> 0:48:30.400 something like that. So it's like, oh, puckered up or something. 0:48:30.440 --> 0:48:33.600 So that's kind of what ojibwe means. But obviously Ani 0:48:33.680 --> 0:48:39.080 schnabe would be more correct, you know. Anyways, it doesn't 0:48:39.080 --> 0:48:43.360 mean orphan, it means puckered up. God, I wish it 0:48:43.400 --> 0:48:49.799 didn't sound so dirty the Thanksgiving scene. So I, like 0:48:49.840 --> 0:48:52.880 I said, I did a video about this on YouTube. 0:48:53.480 --> 0:48:56.560 And the thing that I really loved the most about 0:48:56.719 --> 0:49:00.560 this scene was, you know, first of all, came out 0:49:00.600 --> 0:49:03.560 like I don't know, a year or so before Disney's 0:49:03.600 --> 0:49:09.160 Pocahontas came out, so before you know, like obviously, the 0:49:09.200 --> 0:49:13.239 story of Pocahontas has been told for you know, since 0:49:13.280 --> 0:49:18.239 the sixteen hundreds. People have like a vague, very whitewashed 0:49:18.320 --> 0:49:23.520 understanding of that story anyways, so it's familiar, and then 0:49:23.640 --> 0:49:27.600 Disney just made it worse. But it's just so interesting 0:49:28.400 --> 0:49:32.959 that this movie is so honest about the lie of 0:49:33.080 --> 0:49:36.959 not just not just Pocahontas. You know, they don't really 0:49:37.000 --> 0:49:41.359 dive into that story. It's just, oh, this is a 0:49:41.400 --> 0:49:44.520 play about Indians, and Pocahontas is an Indian, so let's 0:49:44.600 --> 0:49:46.960 just you know, throw her in there to make what 0:49:47.120 --> 0:49:50.680 stay uncomfortable. But just how honest it is about the 0:49:50.760 --> 0:49:56.319 lie of thanksgiving, and not only the lie of Thanksgiving 0:49:56.520 --> 0:50:00.840 that we tell our you know, the nation to children, 0:50:01.120 --> 0:50:06.040 but how the other parents in the audience very clearly 0:50:06.040 --> 0:50:09.560 are racist against Native people. And that's something that really 0:50:09.560 --> 0:50:12.080 stood out to me when I was little, you know, 0:50:12.120 --> 0:50:14.160 I saw this movie probably when I was like four. 0:50:14.600 --> 0:50:18.640 I want to say, three or four. And I understood, 0:50:18.719 --> 0:50:21.040 you know, at a very young age, just from like 0:50:21.480 --> 0:50:23.719 what my parents taught me, and then later when I 0:50:23.760 --> 0:50:26.960 would like go to school and stuff and interact with 0:50:27.160 --> 0:50:31.280 people who had never seen a Native person, like until 0:50:31.320 --> 0:50:34.880 my dad. My dad was probably the first, if not 0:50:35.040 --> 0:50:37.960 the only Native person that a lot of the white 0:50:38.040 --> 0:50:42.360 kids in my schools ever saw, you know, so probably 0:50:42.400 --> 0:50:45.919 one of the very very few that the teachers had 0:50:45.920 --> 0:50:50.719 to like interact with. Also. So it's like I understood 0:50:50.800 --> 0:50:54.000 at a very young age that there are adults and 0:50:54.239 --> 0:50:59.000 parents and teachers that are lying about what happened to 0:50:59.400 --> 0:51:04.040 the Native Americans, not just at Thanksgiving or even with pokehonnas, 0:51:04.080 --> 0:51:09.640 but throughout history. I realized that teachers will lie about this, 0:51:09.800 --> 0:51:12.800 like they'll even probably even know the story and still 0:51:12.800 --> 0:51:16.000 lie about it just because you know, it's a prettier version, 0:51:16.239 --> 0:51:18.439 it's a more flattering version. 0:51:18.600 --> 0:51:23.480 It's more quote unquote appropriate for children, and it's who's children. 0:51:24.320 --> 0:51:26.640 I've I got into an argument about this with one 0:51:26.680 --> 0:51:30.839 of my mom's co workers years ago, who teaches at 0:51:30.840 --> 0:51:36.839 an elementary school, and it was like this looping thing 0:51:36.920 --> 0:51:39.840 of I was like, well, but you know that's not true. 0:51:40.440 --> 0:51:42.640 And you know, she was like, well, but that's how 0:51:42.960 --> 0:51:45.520 are you supposed to explain that to children? I was like, 0:51:45.640 --> 0:51:46.399 figure it out. 0:51:46.600 --> 0:51:49.040 I don't know, it's not true your job as an educator. 0:51:49.400 --> 0:51:51.440 But it was this idea of like, well, it's a 0:51:51.520 --> 0:51:54.880 tradition to tell this lie, and like she really felt that, 0:51:55.040 --> 0:51:58.239 and it's it's I think that there are a lot 0:51:58.239 --> 0:52:01.080 of people out there who still really don't want to 0:52:01.080 --> 0:52:03.279 face their own discomfort of having to explain this. 0:52:03.719 --> 0:52:06.680 No, not at all. But yeah, it's just like how 0:52:06.719 --> 0:52:10.400 the movie really just called that out, especially like in 0:52:10.440 --> 0:52:14.080 the early nineties, Like people have difficulty calling it out now, 0:52:15.000 --> 0:52:17.680 let alone, you know, back when I was three years old, 0:52:18.360 --> 0:52:23.120 so Wednesday not giving them an inch. It's like I 0:52:23.200 --> 0:52:26.440 like to think that she just sat in that cabin 0:52:27.000 --> 0:52:30.400 and watched all those movies and just was like, oh, 0:52:30.520 --> 0:52:34.800 I'm plotting how to get back at all of you 0:52:34.840 --> 0:52:38.719 just orchestrated all of this. I will say though, that 0:52:39.040 --> 0:52:43.000 the scene, as amazing as it is, it's still pretty problematic. 0:52:43.920 --> 0:52:49.359 Y like context matters, but racial stereotypes are still racial stereotypes. 0:52:49.800 --> 0:52:52.600 If you look at the Native the kids that are 0:52:52.680 --> 0:52:56.240 dressed up like natives, A lot of them have really 0:52:56.440 --> 0:53:00.279 darkened skin. I point that out in the video. I 0:53:00.320 --> 0:53:03.239 was like, Wow, they really just like dark in this 0:53:03.560 --> 0:53:07.520 kid's skin for the play. And it's racist. I mean, 0:53:07.560 --> 0:53:08.840 the whole play is racist. 0:53:09.040 --> 0:53:13.640 But right, it's tricky because yeah, the like, of course, 0:53:13.760 --> 0:53:19.600 these racist camp directors would put these children in brown face. 0:53:19.640 --> 0:53:23.040 They would like cast and it's not even predominantly white people. 0:53:23.080 --> 0:53:26.279 Because another thing with that is that the campers who 0:53:26.320 --> 0:53:30.560 are cast to play native characters are like the quote 0:53:30.640 --> 0:53:36.239 unquote outcasts in the camp. Like there's a disabled child 0:53:36.320 --> 0:53:39.400 who's Jewish, there's a kid who is fat, there's an 0:53:39.480 --> 0:53:42.640 Asian kid, there's a Latina kid, there's a black kid, 0:53:42.680 --> 0:53:46.160 a nerdy kid, like all the quote unquote outcasts who 0:53:46.200 --> 0:53:49.600 are not these like blonde children. 0:53:49.360 --> 0:53:51.120 Like descendants are pilgrims. 0:53:51.239 --> 0:53:54.680 Yeah, right, and that's that is like a commentary of like, 0:53:55.160 --> 0:54:00.200 of course, these horrible camp directors would put children who 0:54:00.000 --> 0:54:03.719 who have been othered by society, you know, cast them 0:54:03.719 --> 0:54:06.400 in the role as the native characters in the play. 0:54:06.880 --> 0:54:11.319 But the movie also others those children and again it's like, yes, 0:54:11.360 --> 0:54:15.160 of course, these horrible camp directors would put those children 0:54:15.920 --> 0:54:17.440 in brown face. 0:54:17.800 --> 0:54:20.319 But like the viv isn't doing a ton to push 0:54:20.400 --> 0:54:23.280 push back to be like, let's get to know these kids. 0:54:23.440 --> 0:54:25.960 Yeah, yeah, we get more time with how terrible the 0:54:26.000 --> 0:54:28.400 white kids are than we are with you know, how 0:54:28.760 --> 0:54:31.640 cool these kids are. Actually, like Wednesday should have been 0:54:32.080 --> 0:54:32.720 with them more. 0:54:33.040 --> 0:54:37.040 Yeah, yeah, why doesn't she befriend like Jamal and Consuela 0:54:37.160 --> 0:54:41.239 and the other children who she has been outcast with, 0:54:42.040 --> 0:54:45.759 right like and find community with them anyway. 0:54:45.480 --> 0:54:47.520 So it's not really her thing, Wednesday. 0:54:47.719 --> 0:54:48.879 That is true. That's true. 0:54:48.960 --> 0:54:51.839 But even Pugsly, I mean Pugsly, who I do kind 0:54:51.880 --> 0:54:54.280 of like that. It's cannon to the Adams family universe, 0:54:54.400 --> 0:54:56.480 that Pugsy. You know, we can kind of take or 0:54:56.560 --> 0:54:59.800 leave him. Yeah, you know, he's in a couple of scenes, 0:54:59.840 --> 0:55:02.600 but but he's not putting butts in seats. You know, 0:55:02.880 --> 0:55:06.799 he seems like a sweet kid. I like his his 0:55:07.680 --> 0:55:12.719 performance as the turkey was very funny me. I mean, 0:55:12.840 --> 0:55:17.000 even down to the like lyrics that they're writing. I 0:55:17.000 --> 0:55:20.359 mean it is like it is really really sharp commentary 0:55:20.960 --> 0:55:25.520 writing display from this like horrendous couple's perspective. 0:55:26.200 --> 0:55:29.400 Yeah, there are a lot of Native people who like 0:55:29.520 --> 0:55:31.480 the scene, and there's a lot of Native people who don't, 0:55:31.920 --> 0:55:35.040 and that's I think that's valid. Like I would never 0:55:35.560 --> 0:55:40.040 argue with a Native person about not liking this scene because, 0:55:40.080 --> 0:55:42.680 you know, like I said, it's you still have kids 0:55:42.719 --> 0:55:50.239 in brown face and culturally appropriating costumes. The dialogue is 0:55:50.480 --> 0:55:53.759 very racist too, you know, like it's you know, like 0:55:54.080 --> 0:55:58.480 racial stereotypes are stereotypes and they're harmful, so you know, 0:55:58.560 --> 0:56:04.680 like ironic racism can still racism. That being said, if 0:56:04.680 --> 0:56:06.799 I have to choose between two false accounts of the 0:56:06.800 --> 0:56:10.040 Pocahonta story, I'm going with this one because it was 0:56:10.280 --> 0:56:15.439 very very cathartic for me, you know, at that time 0:56:15.440 --> 0:56:18.400 in my life, and still kind of I mean, Donald 0:56:18.440 --> 0:56:21.759 Trump is using Pocahontas as a slur to this day, 0:56:22.280 --> 0:56:28.840 and with recent hate crimes committed against Indigenous actors like 0:56:28.960 --> 0:56:34.320 Jonathan Joss, I would see that. Yeah, it still holds 0:56:34.440 --> 0:56:38.040 up in some places, even if it doesn't in others, right, 0:56:38.040 --> 0:56:38.560 I mean. 0:56:38.480 --> 0:56:41.400 This is one of the few pieces of mainstream Hollywood 0:56:41.600 --> 0:56:47.960 media from this era that even acknowledged European settler colonialism 0:56:48.160 --> 0:56:53.920 and stolen land and modern Native people living in poverty 0:56:54.000 --> 0:56:59.279 on reservations as a result of colonialism and displacement and 0:56:59.360 --> 0:57:03.680 so like, I'll give the movie that, but like you said, 0:57:03.680 --> 0:57:06.560 there are things that ways in which the movie doesn't 0:57:06.600 --> 0:57:09.319 handle this perfectly. For example, I mean, the whole thing 0:57:09.360 --> 0:57:13.960 still centers whiteness. There are no Native characters present on 0:57:14.080 --> 0:57:19.280 screen to offer their perspectives or experiences. I feel like 0:57:19.320 --> 0:57:23.080 there are things that the play gets wrong that the 0:57:23.200 --> 0:57:26.760 movie could have easily acknowledged if it's something that like 0:57:26.880 --> 0:57:31.840 Wednesday includes in her monologue, or again, if the movie 0:57:31.880 --> 0:57:36.160 included one or more Native characters who could set the 0:57:36.240 --> 0:57:36.960 record straight. 0:57:37.080 --> 0:57:39.720 But again, one of the many things that I like, 0:57:40.160 --> 0:57:43.640 something that would have fit pretty seamlessly into Wednesday's monologue 0:57:43.680 --> 0:57:47.959 is acknowledging how racist their costuming is. Like that would 0:57:48.000 --> 0:57:54.240 have been at least a step toward not seeming as 0:57:54.320 --> 0:57:59.880 if the movie is just endorsing like any facet of that. 0:58:00.320 --> 0:58:01.000 But that doesn't. 0:58:01.040 --> 0:58:02.760 I mean, it's I feel like it's almost kind of 0:58:02.800 --> 0:58:08.000 like leaned into versus resisted, which isn't true of a 0:58:08.000 --> 0:58:09.840 lot of elements in that speech. 0:58:10.080 --> 0:58:14.160 Right, Yeah, she could have acknowledged the costuming, the brown face, 0:58:14.960 --> 0:58:20.440 the fact that Pocahontas was not a quote unquote Chippewa maiden, 0:58:20.680 --> 0:58:23.320 as she says in her dialogue. 0:58:23.960 --> 0:58:28.120 Yeah, as you say in your video, very funny and repeatedly, Ali, 0:58:28.240 --> 0:58:29.280 she's nine. 0:58:29.600 --> 0:58:34.240 She is nine, Yes, yeah, she's a small child. Pocahontas 0:58:34.320 --> 0:58:38.640 was not involved in the first Thanksgiving, neither was the 0:58:39.120 --> 0:58:43.560 Ojibwe nation. It's just all these like again, the movie 0:58:43.600 --> 0:58:47.480 is commenting on how these racist white camp directors have 0:58:47.560 --> 0:58:51.760 created this and are perpetuating this very false version of 0:58:51.800 --> 0:58:56.840 the narrative. But for the people in the nineties watching this, 0:58:56.960 --> 0:58:59.840 and even people today watching this, many of them don't 0:58:59.880 --> 0:59:03.200 know any better. They don't know that the quote unquote 0:59:03.240 --> 0:59:08.000 facts presented by this play are completely incorrect, and the 0:59:08.040 --> 0:59:12.000 movie doesn't say, hey, all these details that you see 0:59:12.000 --> 0:59:13.960 here in the play are wrong. Again, it would have 0:59:13.960 --> 0:59:16.960 been easy for Wednesday to be like and by the way, 0:59:17.080 --> 0:59:18.880 this this and this, or it would have been easy 0:59:18.960 --> 0:59:21.840 for a native character to be written into the movie 0:59:21.880 --> 0:59:26.400 to say here's the actual thing. But the movie again 0:59:26.480 --> 0:59:30.400 just glosses all over that. But but it is very 0:59:30.400 --> 0:59:35.720 cathartic to watch this set burned down and for Sarah Miller, 0:59:35.760 --> 0:59:38.360 the pilgrim girl, to be tied up and burned at 0:59:38.360 --> 0:59:39.960 the stake question mark. 0:59:40.000 --> 0:59:40.439 That's great. 0:59:40.520 --> 0:59:44.760 So I think something that like in the hands of 0:59:44.800 --> 0:59:50.520 a responsible writer. Something that could have helped the scene 0:59:51.040 --> 0:59:54.520 would be if there was an actual Native person at 0:59:54.560 --> 0:59:58.919 the camp. Obviously you walk on thin ice with that one, 0:59:59.280 --> 1:00:03.080 like isn't a person attending the camp, And if it's 1:00:03.240 --> 1:00:06.840 a rich like city Indian, you know, or you run 1:00:06.880 --> 1:00:10.880 the risk of like you know, stereotypes anyways, but how 1:00:10.920 --> 1:00:16.040 they treat a rich Indian is still very racist, you know, 1:00:16.480 --> 1:00:21.640 when you're surrounded by rich white children or like maybe 1:00:21.680 --> 1:00:24.960 there's a camp director or something like that that's like, oh, 1:00:25.040 --> 1:00:27.200 we're gonna teach you, you know, take you on a 1:00:27.240 --> 1:00:31.440 trail or take you horseback riding, and the kids are like, 1:00:31.800 --> 1:00:33.320 you know, because the other thing is, you know, you 1:00:33.360 --> 1:00:36.480 don't really want an excuse, like you don't want a 1:00:36.520 --> 1:00:41.360 Native person there specifically so people can be racist to them, right, 1:00:41.680 --> 1:00:45.080 But like if someone was there, like I don't know, 1:00:45.120 --> 1:00:48.840 the image in my head when I imagine how the scene 1:00:48.880 --> 1:00:51.040 probably could have been a little bit better, would be 1:00:51.160 --> 1:00:56.040 like a Native person watching this all unfold and just 1:00:56.160 --> 1:01:01.200 like nodding and smiling and just watching it like, oh, okay, 1:01:01.920 --> 1:01:04.480 you know about it all. I don't remember this version 1:01:04.520 --> 1:01:06.920 of the Thanksgiving story, but it's a lot better than 1:01:06.960 --> 1:01:10.480 the ones they've been telling for the past like three 1:01:10.560 --> 1:01:12.520 hundred years. 1:01:13.400 --> 1:01:16.320 The other thing that I know we've like touched on it, 1:01:16.360 --> 1:01:19.400 but again, one of the things that I don't think 1:01:19.480 --> 1:01:23.800 I would have seen in other movies is the acknowledgment 1:01:23.880 --> 1:01:27.360 that Native people still exist. Like, I think that was 1:01:27.400 --> 1:01:30.960 something that I was I feel like, I mean, I 1:01:30.960 --> 1:01:33.400 didn't grow up around any Native kids. I grew up 1:01:33.400 --> 1:01:36.400 in a very diversity, but we didn't have a large 1:01:36.480 --> 1:01:39.960 Native population at all. And I feel like, even if 1:01:39.960 --> 1:01:43.440 it wasn't explicitly said to me that you're sort of 1:01:43.520 --> 1:01:48.280 taught that Native people don't exist anymore. And so that Wednesday, 1:01:48.320 --> 1:01:50.680 even in like it could have been a more detailed 1:01:50.680 --> 1:01:54.000 line of dialogue, but acknowledged that of course Native people 1:01:54.080 --> 1:01:58.760 still exist and they're extremely oppressed to this day, Like 1:01:59.000 --> 1:02:02.920 is really impactful for it, you know, kids in the 1:02:03.040 --> 1:02:07.560 audience who just have not been taught that whatsoever. Yeah. 1:02:07.120 --> 1:02:09.480 I had a long talk with my brother about this 1:02:09.480 --> 1:02:11.680 because I was like, we didn't like, I just to 1:02:11.880 --> 1:02:15.360 verify how miseducated we really were. And yeah, I mean 1:02:15.360 --> 1:02:18.440 it's just again it's like a couple lines of dialogue, 1:02:18.440 --> 1:02:21.440 but it's I'm very glad it's there. 1:02:21.440 --> 1:02:24.120 One of my nieces. And this was back I want 1:02:24.160 --> 1:02:28.000 to say, like two thousand. Let's see, I graduated high 1:02:28.000 --> 1:02:30.640 school in two thousand and eight, so it must have 1:02:30.720 --> 1:02:35.200 been two thousand and five era, I want to say. 1:02:35.680 --> 1:02:39.920 But the kids in her classroom, so she was probably 1:02:39.960 --> 1:02:44.080 like in sixth or seventh grade. The kids in her 1:02:44.120 --> 1:02:48.400 classroom didn't think Native people were real. My god, They're like, 1:02:48.440 --> 1:02:51.040 why are we learning about this? This didn't even happen. 1:02:51.400 --> 1:02:53.400 I was like, what are you talking about? They're like, 1:02:53.600 --> 1:02:57.000 Indians aren't real. And I'm like, excuse. 1:02:56.480 --> 1:02:58.680 Me, Hi, nice to meet you. 1:02:58.800 --> 1:03:02.160 Like what the fuck is going on at our public schools? 1:03:02.240 --> 1:03:05.840 It's like, yeah, oh my gosh. And it's only gotten 1:03:06.640 --> 1:03:10.000 gotten somewhat better and gotten somewhat worse because just recently, 1:03:10.200 --> 1:03:14.400 actually I was helping my nephew with his homework and uh, 1:03:14.760 --> 1:03:18.560 Sitting Bull was addressed Chief Sitting Bull, and they talked 1:03:18.600 --> 1:03:21.840 a little bit about the battle a little big horn, 1:03:22.080 --> 1:03:24.919 just what it was, and you know that Sitting Bull 1:03:25.040 --> 1:03:28.240 was there. Then they followed it up like the next 1:03:28.280 --> 1:03:31.360 page was about Golden Mirror. I think it's how you 1:03:31.400 --> 1:03:34.440 say it. Who was the fourth prime Minister of Israel 1:03:34.720 --> 1:03:40.680 oh and asked how was Goldenmeir and Sitting Bull alike? 1:03:41.480 --> 1:03:45.360 And I was like, excuse me, oh my god. Yeah, 1:03:45.440 --> 1:03:47.800 I was like, first of all, we never even learned 1:03:47.800 --> 1:03:51.760 about Israel like at all through my K through twelve education, 1:03:52.360 --> 1:03:55.120 like saying, none of it, not at all. I don't 1:03:55.120 --> 1:03:58.040 even think we learned about Sitting Bull in my K 1:03:58.160 --> 1:04:00.720 through twelve. You know, I think I learned about that 1:04:01.520 --> 1:04:03.880 like on my own, just because of who my family is. 1:04:04.240 --> 1:04:06.320 And it's like, so the one time you're bringing up 1:04:07.120 --> 1:04:12.800 Israel and Sitting Bull is to compare those two. And 1:04:13.040 --> 1:04:17.280 I wrote a very very angry email to my nephew's principle, 1:04:17.520 --> 1:04:19.960 So yeah, it. 1:04:19.960 --> 1:04:24.080 Shouldn't fault you. But I'm oh glad that people are 1:04:24.240 --> 1:04:27.240 keeping their eyes piled for it, because that's that's absurd. 1:04:27.560 --> 1:04:32.280 Like it goes without saying that Israel is the pilgrims, 1:04:32.560 --> 1:04:37.720 is the colonizers decimating an entire indigenous population. 1:04:38.440 --> 1:04:41.960 And I was very much like, listen, if this woman 1:04:42.200 --> 1:04:45.000 was anything like Sitting Bull, the United States would not 1:04:45.280 --> 1:04:47.920 be backing Israel, just so you. 1:04:47.920 --> 1:04:52.280 Know, like, yeah, they are the colonizers, it's their whole 1:04:52.400 --> 1:04:56.000 fucking thing. I mean it is it yeah again, And 1:04:56.040 --> 1:04:58.480 it's like it's tricky because I think we've had this 1:04:58.520 --> 1:05:02.360 conversation on the show before. It's it is like one 1:05:02.480 --> 1:05:05.440 movie is not going to be able to make up 1:05:05.560 --> 1:05:10.960 for years of miseducation, but it can help. And this 1:05:11.200 --> 1:05:16.640 is a scene that I think is an example of that. Yeah, 1:05:16.720 --> 1:05:20.600 I have for I have a whole section. I need to, 1:05:20.680 --> 1:05:23.440 I think, process this whole Camp Squanta thing because I'm 1:05:23.440 --> 1:05:27.400 still thinking so much about that, Like I double checked 1:05:27.800 --> 1:05:30.240 current stuff hanging at the camp just to see him, 1:05:30.240 --> 1:05:33.800 Like has the messaging changed at all? It hasn't, and 1:05:34.200 --> 1:05:36.760 you know it instead of being presented as oh, the 1:05:36.880 --> 1:05:43.080 translator for the pilgrims in Plymouth, where the truth, of 1:05:43.120 --> 1:05:46.600 course is far more complicated and horrific, is that he 1:05:47.520 --> 1:05:51.800 was overseas and returned to North America and his entire 1:05:51.880 --> 1:05:55.600 village was gone and it'd been replaced with Plymouth Plantation. 1:05:56.640 --> 1:06:00.520 And that is certainly not acknowledged within the walls of 1:06:00.520 --> 1:06:04.160 Campsquanto because that doesn't feel good to hear. And I 1:06:04.200 --> 1:06:07.080 feel like that is a lot of what is satirized 1:06:07.080 --> 1:06:12.560 in this Christine Baranski and other guy Gary Couple here 1:06:12.640 --> 1:06:15.240 is like they are in a way that like I 1:06:15.240 --> 1:06:17.600 think is like written pretty well of like they are 1:06:17.760 --> 1:06:22.840 so determined to appropriate the hell and misrepresent the hell 1:06:22.880 --> 1:06:25.280 out of any aspect of Native culture that they can 1:06:25.680 --> 1:06:28.720 accept the parts that don't feel good to hear. And 1:06:28.760 --> 1:06:32.480 that is there's that great line that I think they 1:06:32.600 --> 1:06:38.080 kind of split about privilege. What is it privileged young 1:06:38.120 --> 1:06:40.800 adults and we're all here to learn, to grow and 1:06:40.840 --> 1:06:43.840 to just have plain fun because that's what being privileged 1:06:43.920 --> 1:06:47.680 is all about. And like doing that in the context 1:06:47.880 --> 1:06:52.160 of misrepresenting and stealing Native culture for their own purposes 1:06:52.520 --> 1:06:56.400 unfortunately completely tracks. And I do appreciate that the movie, 1:06:56.600 --> 1:07:00.520 for its faults, does seem to know that. I also like, 1:07:00.840 --> 1:07:04.080 did they know that Pocahontas was in production when this 1:07:04.240 --> 1:07:06.960 was made? Because they have they have it out for 1:07:07.040 --> 1:07:07.919 Disney in this one. 1:07:08.000 --> 1:07:14.720 It's very satisfying, maybe because I remember, I guess around 1:07:14.800 --> 1:07:18.800 that time, like because Pocahontas and The Lion King were 1:07:19.120 --> 1:07:20.360 both being animated at the. 1:07:20.320 --> 1:07:25.200 Same time, and Disney wanted that Oscar Gold and thought that, oh, 1:07:25.240 --> 1:07:27.600 we'll get it with Pocahontas this time and make it 1:07:27.800 --> 1:07:30.040 edgy an adult, you know. 1:07:30.120 --> 1:07:31.080 Make her sexy. 1:07:31.520 --> 1:07:38.280 The gross, so gross nine nine, she was nine. 1:07:39.520 --> 1:07:39.880 I did. 1:07:40.040 --> 1:07:43.040 I did. Like the the other aspect of the like 1:07:43.640 --> 1:07:46.760 the camp being that if you disagree with them, they 1:07:46.760 --> 1:07:50.720 will try to basically clockwork orange you by making you 1:07:50.800 --> 1:07:54.880 watch The Little Mermaid a trillion times, and that Wednesday, 1:07:55.800 --> 1:07:56.840 Wednesday is stronger. 1:07:57.920 --> 1:08:01.280 Yeah, like you said, Ellie, she's you can imagine, she's 1:08:01.360 --> 1:08:06.080 just like sitting there as like Ariels singing part of 1:08:06.120 --> 1:08:09.080 this world or whatever, just like plotting. Like yes, I 1:08:09.120 --> 1:08:11.480 will pretend to agree to be in the play so 1:08:11.520 --> 1:08:16.439 that I can, you know, derail the play and give 1:08:16.720 --> 1:08:22.320 this monologue. I read a couple pieces by Native writers, 1:08:22.600 --> 1:08:27.679 one by Sasha la Point in huff Post in twenty 1:08:27.720 --> 1:08:32.720 twenty entitled as an Indigenous woman, I always hate Thanksgiving 1:08:32.880 --> 1:08:36.320 This year, I'm terrified of it in reference to people 1:08:36.520 --> 1:08:40.880 gathering a few months after COVID broke out, and then 1:08:40.920 --> 1:08:44.440 the other piece I read is by author Alyssa Washuota 1:08:44.760 --> 1:08:50.320 in twenty seventeen in a publication called Electric Lit, entitled Wednesday, 1:08:50.320 --> 1:08:54.360 Adams is just another Settler. In both pieces, the writers 1:08:54.360 --> 1:08:59.040 discuss their relationship to Thanksgiving and their relationship to this 1:08:59.240 --> 1:09:05.400 scene in Adam's family values, how they celebrated and or 1:09:05.560 --> 1:09:09.439 connected to the scene in their youth, but both say 1:09:09.479 --> 1:09:13.599 that like it's not enough. Though of course, white people 1:09:13.800 --> 1:09:17.960 like Wednesday Adams are still sellers on stolen Land. Liberation 1:09:18.120 --> 1:09:20.960 isn't going to happen via sharing this clip from the 1:09:21.000 --> 1:09:25.160 movie on social media on Thanksgiving, solidarity and allyship from 1:09:25.200 --> 1:09:28.160 white people has to be a lot more meaningful and impactful, 1:09:29.120 --> 1:09:32.960 and both pieces are definitely worth reading. We'll provide the 1:09:33.640 --> 1:09:34.559 links to those. 1:09:34.680 --> 1:09:37.519 But that makes me happy to hear though I know 1:09:37.600 --> 1:09:39.920 that you know, both of those were released, you know, 1:09:39.920 --> 1:09:44.280 a couple of years ago, but especially how relevant it is, 1:09:44.360 --> 1:09:47.640 Like again, going back to Jonathan Joss, it's you know, 1:09:48.360 --> 1:09:52.000 his husband has been very vocal saying, you know, like 1:09:52.400 --> 1:09:56.320 please keep putting pressure on the fact that this was 1:09:56.360 --> 1:10:01.920 a hate crime against gay indigenous man, you know, put 1:10:01.960 --> 1:10:07.360 pressure on the police. And surprisingly every new piece of 1:10:07.400 --> 1:10:10.920 information about Jonathan Joss is worse than the last, and 1:10:10.960 --> 1:10:14.519 it's been very traumatizing, like just this past week, you 1:10:14.600 --> 1:10:22.280 know alone. But I really appreciate how much this man 1:10:22.479 --> 1:10:26.760 was loved by so many people, because it sounds like 1:10:26.880 --> 1:10:31.440 the police, the San Antonio Police Department was severely underestimated 1:10:31.479 --> 1:10:34.960 how much people would have cared about this, like oh 1:10:35.000 --> 1:10:37.840 it's another gay guy. Oh it's another dead Indian and 1:10:38.600 --> 1:10:43.760 everyone's like, oh no, actually absolutely not. We're not just 1:10:43.800 --> 1:10:49.320 gonna gloss over this murder that happened, you know, And 1:10:50.439 --> 1:10:53.800 again like that's another example of using your solidarity, not 1:10:53.920 --> 1:10:57.080 just sharing, you know, a very cathartic, awesome clip from 1:10:57.120 --> 1:11:01.000 your favorite movie, but being like this is their phone number, 1:11:01.400 --> 1:11:03.479 this is who you can call, this is you know, 1:11:03.640 --> 1:11:06.760 post on social media, send money to the GoFundMe. I 1:11:07.080 --> 1:11:10.080 heard that the husband doesn't want any more GoFundMe donations, 1:11:10.080 --> 1:11:13.559 but you know, using your platform, which I hope that 1:11:13.720 --> 1:11:17.439 the Parks and Rec and King of the Hill people 1:11:17.560 --> 1:11:20.639 will step up and put a little bit more pressure 1:11:20.680 --> 1:11:24.120 on it with their platforms. But we'll see, because I 1:11:24.160 --> 1:11:27.839 saw how they treated them at that panel, so hopefully 1:11:27.840 --> 1:11:29.080 Park Rec does better. 1:11:29.400 --> 1:11:32.800 I've been so disappointed to see how I mean, not 1:11:32.880 --> 1:11:35.880 that we expect anything from Chris Pratt, but Chris Pratt, 1:11:35.920 --> 1:11:38.440 I think, is the only person who is like acknowledged 1:11:38.439 --> 1:11:41.000 it in a public way, in a half assed, useless way, 1:11:41.160 --> 1:11:45.800 and all of the acknowledgments that he isn't here don't 1:11:45.840 --> 1:11:49.000 acknowledge the fact that he was murdered. It's just very 1:11:49.160 --> 1:11:52.839 like I read I was reading through just public statements 1:11:52.880 --> 1:11:55.400 made for the most part, it's like you would think 1:11:55.439 --> 1:11:57.280 he died in his sleep, you. 1:11:57.200 --> 1:11:59.760 Know, like you just it's disgusting. 1:12:00.040 --> 1:12:05.360 Especially I'm like Amy Poehlard couldn't have a huger platform, why, 1:12:05.479 --> 1:12:05.680 you know. 1:12:06.160 --> 1:12:08.080 I hope she steps up. I hope they all do. 1:12:08.720 --> 1:12:11.680 So if you love this scene and Adam's family values, 1:12:12.280 --> 1:12:15.000 do something awesome this year for Pride and step up 1:12:15.000 --> 1:12:19.320 for Jonathan Jass. So yeah, anyways. 1:12:18.840 --> 1:12:20.840 I mean, honestly, I don't have that much else to 1:12:20.880 --> 1:12:24.920 talk about with this movie, especially stuff that we didn't 1:12:25.040 --> 1:12:29.080 also cover on our first episode. Yes, about the first movie, 1:12:29.240 --> 1:12:30.320 Corny Parents Rock. 1:12:30.680 --> 1:12:32.400 You know, we talked you could go back to our 1:12:32.439 --> 1:12:34.280 first episode to talk about the ways that the Added 1:12:34.439 --> 1:12:38.400 Family subverts all of these you know, Hollywood tropes in 1:12:38.439 --> 1:12:40.120 this really delightful way. I did want to talk a 1:12:40.120 --> 1:12:44.400 little bit about Debbie, because this is our first rodio 1:12:44.479 --> 1:12:47.680 with Debbie and unfortunately our last. I would love to 1:12:47.800 --> 1:12:50.880 see word Debbie. I think she's a pretty cool, like 1:12:51.200 --> 1:12:56.840 satirical character as well, where she is this like extremely entitled, 1:12:57.640 --> 1:13:01.479 you know, wasp by murderer. It's an interesting idea for 1:13:01.520 --> 1:13:05.360 a character. Yeah, and she's just she's killing guys. She's 1:13:05.439 --> 1:13:09.000 just she's just walking around killing killing rich guys, and. 1:13:09.080 --> 1:13:13.240 She's manipulating them, she's doming them, she's making them get makeovers, 1:13:14.280 --> 1:13:19.000 stealing from them, murdering them. It's honestly iconic. 1:13:19.600 --> 1:13:23.680 I like that she's very feminine and very pretty and 1:13:23.800 --> 1:13:30.000 where's you know, like white Sellstels, but is also very 1:13:30.120 --> 1:13:35.439 dark and very like unhinged and very angry. It's a 1:13:35.439 --> 1:13:39.320 great character. It's like girl you and more should have 1:13:39.439 --> 1:13:44.200 just hooked up and Orkard Gomez lovingly because he would 1:13:44.200 --> 1:13:44.840 have loved it. 1:13:45.040 --> 1:13:48.360 And yes, the thing could be there, you know whatever. 1:13:48.600 --> 1:13:51.800 I like that they don't try to like I don't know, well, 1:13:51.800 --> 1:13:54.240 they do justify her actions quote unquote where they give 1:13:54.240 --> 1:13:57.160 her like villain origin story, but it's so silly. It's 1:13:57.160 --> 1:14:00.439 the ballet bou barbie thing where Yeah, I think a 1:14:00.479 --> 1:14:02.160 lot of times we get I mean I think I 1:14:02.160 --> 1:14:04.639 complain about this all the time, and especially more recent 1:14:04.680 --> 1:14:10.000 Disney movies, where the villainous behavior is contextualized through like 1:14:10.560 --> 1:14:14.400 you know, something that almost feels like it's excusing the behavior. 1:14:14.439 --> 1:14:14.879 Itself. 1:14:14.920 --> 1:14:18.800 They're like, well, yeah, as tough childhood. So that's why 1:14:18.840 --> 1:14:20.720 he killed all those people, you know, like. 1:14:20.760 --> 1:14:23.519 And that's why they deserve a redemption. 1:14:23.800 --> 1:14:27.640 Right, right, And Debbie Jelinsky couldn't get less of a 1:14:28.120 --> 1:14:33.320 redemption arc if she tried. She dies like several times, 1:14:34.040 --> 1:14:37.840 and that, you know, her villain origin story is ridiculous. 1:14:37.880 --> 1:14:41.600 It's like she's just like, I think whatever, this representation 1:14:41.720 --> 1:14:45.160 of someone who is just like absolutely a selfish consumer 1:14:45.200 --> 1:14:50.520 to her bones, literally her bones, because she's crevated. 1:14:51.680 --> 1:14:57.400 I also love that Debbie's evilness isn't tied to oh 1:14:57.439 --> 1:15:01.719 I hate this other woman for being pretty or something, 1:15:01.880 --> 1:15:05.520 you know, like she doesn't really like. She and Mortitia 1:15:05.600 --> 1:15:08.519 are on opposite ends of the spectrum, but I wouldn't 1:15:08.520 --> 1:15:12.439 say that, you know, they're at odds as far as 1:15:12.640 --> 1:15:15.439 you know, oh she's prettier and oh she's got more money, 1:15:15.800 --> 1:15:18.280 you know, which would have been super boring. 1:15:18.880 --> 1:15:19.240 Yeah. 1:15:19.280 --> 1:15:22.280 I love Martitia also is in you know, like I'm 1:15:22.320 --> 1:15:24.880 not like other girls like and response to it. It's 1:15:24.880 --> 1:15:28.800 just fucking beneath her and for her killing all of 1:15:28.840 --> 1:15:32.320 these dudes. I never got like this faux feminist vibe 1:15:32.320 --> 1:15:34.320 from it, you know, like, especially in the nineties where 1:15:34.360 --> 1:15:37.679 it's like feminism is man hating and blah blah blah. 1:15:37.680 --> 1:15:38.760 You know, Yeah, she. 1:15:39.080 --> 1:15:45.519 Just wants money, which valid don't get married, just get cash. 1:15:46.000 --> 1:15:48.800 Yeah, she's doing a series of neutral acts. I think 1:15:49.840 --> 1:15:53.360 she I Yeah, I like jumping off that point. I 1:15:53.400 --> 1:15:57.960 think if Debbie was the only woman we met in 1:15:58.000 --> 1:16:00.719 this movie, I would have some issue with it because 1:16:00.720 --> 1:16:02.639 it's like, if you only get to know one woman 1:16:02.720 --> 1:16:07.880 and she's extremely selfish and horrible and evil, you know, 1:16:07.920 --> 1:16:10.080 that's something to talk about. But we get such a 1:16:10.840 --> 1:16:14.280 range of types of women, especially in the Adams family, 1:16:14.320 --> 1:16:18.160 like Martitia. Yeah, I love that. Martitia's like, I respect 1:16:18.160 --> 1:16:22.720 what you're doing, but you look tacky doing it. Wednesday. Uh, 1:16:23.080 --> 1:16:26.800 I mean you have you even have a range of 1:16:27.160 --> 1:16:30.920 types of horrible waspy white lady. Debbie Jolinsky and Christine 1:16:30.920 --> 1:16:35.360 Baranski's character are different flavors of terrible person and I 1:16:35.400 --> 1:16:37.599 think Christine Baranski's far worse. 1:16:38.680 --> 1:16:41.800 Yes, and then you've got the Amanda the little rich 1:16:41.880 --> 1:16:45.479 girl character. Yes, another brand of that. 1:16:46.160 --> 1:16:48.519 Yeah, there's I guess maybe it's because we were recovering 1:16:48.560 --> 1:16:51.920 camp Rock too, but I was like, the it's such 1:16:51.960 --> 1:16:55.719 a it's such a stock character, like the bitchy blonde 1:16:55.760 --> 1:16:56.880 girl at camp. 1:16:57.160 --> 1:17:01.400 And she probably wouldn't have been the bad if it 1:17:01.439 --> 1:17:06.200 wasn't an Adam's Family movie. But what was interesting to 1:17:06.280 --> 1:17:09.960 me about Amanda's character was like, this is very clearly 1:17:10.800 --> 1:17:15.479 a child repeating the things that her parents and her 1:17:15.520 --> 1:17:19.960 teachers were telling her. You know. She like, if you 1:17:20.040 --> 1:17:22.680 don't know, you don't know, and you only know what 1:17:22.960 --> 1:17:26.360 the adults around you are telling you or not telling you. 1:17:27.160 --> 1:17:31.439 And adults weaponize this all the time, you know, because 1:17:31.479 --> 1:17:34.680 it's like, oh, well, you can't get mad and you 1:17:34.720 --> 1:17:37.720 can't say anything because it's a child, you know, Like, 1:17:37.760 --> 1:17:39.600 what are you going to do? Bully a kid for 1:17:39.680 --> 1:17:43.519 being racist? They don't know any better, and uh have. 1:17:43.479 --> 1:17:45.040 To fucking talk to them. 1:17:45.400 --> 1:17:48.719 You have to do better. And they'll run into someone 1:17:48.760 --> 1:17:51.760 like Wednesday, who will you know, scalp them and burn 1:17:51.800 --> 1:17:54.599 their village to the ground. We'll walk around and find. 1:17:54.400 --> 1:17:58.560 Out, Yeah, she will not forget that anytime soon. I 1:17:59.240 --> 1:18:02.040 do think it's tricky with a character like Wednesday specifically, 1:18:02.120 --> 1:18:06.440 I it seems like this is this dynamic is adjusted 1:18:06.520 --> 1:18:09.639 somewhat in the Netflix series so that Wednesday can have 1:18:09.720 --> 1:18:14.400 a friend I'm pretty sure, not sure, but this iteration 1:18:14.760 --> 1:18:18.640 of Wednesday, like she's not going to be building a coalition. 1:18:19.000 --> 1:18:23.120 That's just not what she's gonna do. So, you know, 1:18:23.160 --> 1:18:25.400 I think the result of that is like you can't there. 1:18:25.520 --> 1:18:27.920 You probably could have squeezed a little more. And it's 1:18:27.960 --> 1:18:30.479 not that I wanted to admit a character on screen more, 1:18:30.560 --> 1:18:32.960 but I feel like you could have gotten a little 1:18:33.000 --> 1:18:35.559 more nuanced, like you were just describing Ali of like 1:18:35.800 --> 1:18:38.720 we see that her parents are racist, but there's not 1:18:38.760 --> 1:18:42.280 an explicit connection of she is parroting what her parents 1:18:42.280 --> 1:18:45.240 are saying, because she does say like, you know, she's 1:18:45.240 --> 1:18:48.920 not just racist, she's also very classist. She you know, 1:18:49.000 --> 1:18:52.559 when they talk about, you know, uncle Fester is marrying 1:18:52.680 --> 1:18:57.280 the help and I don't know, this movie will choose 1:18:57.280 --> 1:19:00.600 a one liner over almost anything, so it's not like 1:19:00.600 --> 1:19:02.920 we're going to get a deep insight into this very 1:19:02.960 --> 1:19:06.719 toxic dynamic in Adam's family values. And not being said, 1:19:07.120 --> 1:19:11.200 I do love that exchange between her and Wednesday where 1:19:11.360 --> 1:19:13.920 Amanda's like, I'll be the victim and Wednesday is like 1:19:14.040 --> 1:19:18.360 all your life. It's so good. 1:19:18.520 --> 1:19:23.759 I also love Okay, as soon as Fester comes back, 1:19:24.320 --> 1:19:26.600 you know, and Gomez is on his deathbed, you know, 1:19:27.040 --> 1:19:30.080 his heart is broken because he lost his brother, and 1:19:30.280 --> 1:19:33.800 as soon as Fester comes back, it's just immediate love 1:19:33.880 --> 1:19:37.840 and support, like we know, you know, it's not. Wednesday 1:19:37.840 --> 1:19:40.720 has a moment where she's like, you know, you sent 1:19:40.880 --> 1:19:43.479 us a camp and they made us sing, you know, 1:19:43.840 --> 1:19:47.719 but she gets over it because that's their their unit, 1:19:48.040 --> 1:19:52.240 that's their family, and it's just such a nice example 1:19:52.439 --> 1:19:57.280 of how to care for your family when they come 1:19:57.400 --> 1:20:01.320 back from a very abusive, toxic relationship up which you 1:20:01.360 --> 1:20:04.200 know of all families do. To see Adam's family. 1:20:05.479 --> 1:20:09.799 I love the part right after Fester returns and Gomez 1:20:09.880 --> 1:20:12.160 is kind of in disbelief about it, and he's just 1:20:12.200 --> 1:20:18.640 like you are, mister Debbie, and I'm like, mister Debbie. Hilarious. 1:20:20.120 --> 1:20:22.920 They kind of they match each other's freaking a kind 1:20:22.920 --> 1:20:25.439 of interesting way. I wasn't not rooting for. 1:20:25.479 --> 1:20:29.760 Them back to Wednesday really quick, though I would have. 1:20:30.080 --> 1:20:31.920 I mean to me, it feels like they kind of 1:20:32.000 --> 1:20:36.680 wedge in an unnecessary hetero love story. 1:20:36.840 --> 1:20:39.520 There very studio notes. 1:20:40.200 --> 1:20:43.719 And look I Joel as a character I enjoy very much. 1:20:44.120 --> 1:20:48.799 And you know, a camp crush that's familiar people can. 1:20:48.720 --> 1:20:51.040 But it's beneath Wednesday Adams. 1:20:51.160 --> 1:20:56.120 Yeah, yeah, I do like that he comes over at 1:20:56.120 --> 1:20:58.479 the very end of the movie and is now like 1:20:58.720 --> 1:21:02.920 dressing like and Adams, and he basically gives up his 1:21:03.080 --> 1:21:06.360 identity for a girl, and I think more men should 1:21:06.360 --> 1:21:06.559 do that. 1:21:07.000 --> 1:21:11.200 So and I love how how it ends where she's like, 1:21:11.200 --> 1:21:15.080 I would scare him to death, you know, I assume 1:21:15.400 --> 1:21:19.360 he does so does kill him. And I feel like 1:21:19.479 --> 1:21:23.120 Wednesday is just like Debbie, that's how it's done. You 1:21:23.200 --> 1:21:26.320 were slappy because they're over her grave as they do. 1:21:26.320 --> 1:21:27.519 It's good. 1:21:28.920 --> 1:21:31.760 I also liked with with Joel. It's again it's it's 1:21:31.800 --> 1:21:35.799 a very like not a harped upon point. But Joel 1:21:36.160 --> 1:21:39.479 is from a Jewish family, and his family is very 1:21:40.000 --> 1:21:45.160 racist toward natives, and he clearly, like I think the Joel, 1:21:45.200 --> 1:21:47.880 we get a little closer to like what you would 1:21:47.960 --> 1:21:50.920 hope for in a character like Amanda, where his parents 1:21:50.920 --> 1:21:53.840 are just as racist as hers are, but he is 1:21:54.640 --> 1:21:58.479 resisting it and you know, actually trying to learn because 1:21:58.479 --> 1:21:59.760 he reads, because he reads. 1:21:59.800 --> 1:22:01.560 He's he reads books. 1:22:01.240 --> 1:22:04.639 Right right, which I mean even you know, hopefully he's 1:22:04.680 --> 1:22:07.920 just choosing authors and sources carefully. 1:22:07.680 --> 1:22:08.240 Jul. 1:22:09.520 --> 1:22:12.439 But but yeah, like I do like that you have 1:22:12.520 --> 1:22:17.080 an example of this kid who is unquestionably from privilege, 1:22:17.240 --> 1:22:21.559 but is not just wholesale buying into the bullshit that 1:22:21.640 --> 1:22:24.839 his parents believe. I think it's a good good character 1:22:24.920 --> 1:22:26.040 for kids to see. 1:22:26.240 --> 1:22:31.599 And I like that his explicit jewishness is at the wedding. 1:22:32.000 --> 1:22:35.280 So it's not, you know, a joke. It's not you know, like, 1:22:35.960 --> 1:22:37.680 oh the Jewish kid, you know what I mean, Like, 1:22:37.760 --> 1:22:40.240 it's not offensive, it's like, oh, he just happens to 1:22:40.240 --> 1:22:42.679 be Jewish. And when he goes to the wedding, he's 1:22:42.720 --> 1:22:45.360 wearing I think it's called Yamaica. I'm not sure. 1:22:45.400 --> 1:22:47.800 I'm not kidding he's wearing a Yamica, right, Because a 1:22:47.800 --> 1:22:52.040 lot of characters will be coded Jewish in movies but 1:22:52.120 --> 1:22:55.800 not explicitly defined that way. But I think it's safe 1:22:55.840 --> 1:23:00.599 to say that his Yamaica explicitly identifies him as being 1:23:00.640 --> 1:23:01.559 a Jewish kid. 1:23:02.000 --> 1:23:05.120 Which which makes sense with Barry sound and fault. I 1:23:05.120 --> 1:23:08.040 think that's been a very consistent part of like, you know, 1:23:08.120 --> 1:23:11.960 he wants to have good representation of young Jewish characters. 1:23:12.320 --> 1:23:16.280 Right. Shout out to a couple of my favorite lines 1:23:16.400 --> 1:23:21.240 slash jokes mortitious, saying, I'm just like any modern woman 1:23:21.320 --> 1:23:23.759 trying to have it all, a loving husband, a family. 1:23:24.160 --> 1:23:26.160 It's just I wish I had more time to seek 1:23:26.200 --> 1:23:28.880 out the dark forces and join their hellish crusade. 1:23:29.280 --> 1:23:34.400 That's my one thing with this movie that there's so 1:23:34.520 --> 1:23:37.519 much amazing, there's so many great storylines. I just I'm like, 1:23:37.960 --> 1:23:39.519 not enough more Titia for me. 1:23:40.000 --> 1:23:40.320 I need. 1:23:40.360 --> 1:23:42.960 That's like the one thing that we're One of the 1:23:43.000 --> 1:23:45.280 only things that the first movie has the edge over 1:23:45.320 --> 1:23:49.240 the second movie, and is Gomez and Martitia are art 1:23:49.360 --> 1:23:53.400 around for the majority of the action, and which I 1:23:53.439 --> 1:23:56.080 don't know if that was like an availability thing or 1:23:56.120 --> 1:23:59.400 whatever it may be, But I mean, I just always 1:23:59.400 --> 1:24:00.920 want to see Raul. 1:24:00.960 --> 1:24:06.080 Julia's health was failing during the shooting of this movie. 1:24:06.160 --> 1:24:08.080 Oh wait, this is his last film, right, the. 1:24:08.040 --> 1:24:10.599 Last one that he shot. And then something else came 1:24:10.640 --> 1:24:13.080 out after he had passed Street Fighter. 1:24:13.640 --> 1:24:19.479 Yes, wow, Karen, but very nineties, Yes, Okay, that that 1:24:19.520 --> 1:24:20.240 does make sense. 1:24:20.479 --> 1:24:22.160 It could have been that, and maybe they needed to 1:24:22.160 --> 1:24:25.200 make changes to the script to accommodate his health. We're 1:24:25.240 --> 1:24:28.080 not totally sure, but he was missed. 1:24:28.080 --> 1:24:31.519 I also didn't realize that because the grandmother character is 1:24:31.600 --> 1:24:35.719 under so much makeup that it's Carol Kane in this one. 1:24:36.000 --> 1:24:39.880 I didn't didn't know that was her in there. Always 1:24:39.960 --> 1:24:41.479 happy to see Carol Kane. 1:24:42.040 --> 1:24:47.920 Indeed, one of my other favorite jokes is Gomez saying 1:24:47.960 --> 1:24:50.880 to Fester. After Fester is saying how oh he would 1:24:50.920 --> 1:24:54.280 like to one day get married and have children, Gomez says, 1:24:54.520 --> 1:24:57.280 I hope you someday know the indescribable joy of having 1:24:57.400 --> 1:25:02.240 children and paying someone else to raise them. Hilarious, incredible. 1:25:03.760 --> 1:25:05.760 Do you know? Like this movie was so ahead of 1:25:05.760 --> 1:25:09.559 its time anyways, But the fact that Pubert, you know, 1:25:09.640 --> 1:25:12.599 when he is possessed in his blonde and looks like 1:25:15.360 --> 1:25:19.040 the grandma, is like, he could become a lawyer and 1:25:19.080 --> 1:25:23.320 he's not in this house. He could be the president. 1:25:23.600 --> 1:25:26.720 I was like, you know what, that is legitimately terrifying 1:25:26.800 --> 1:25:30.880 now because there are lawyers who voted for Trump and 1:25:30.960 --> 1:25:34.800 Trump became president, and I would definitely be concerned as 1:25:34.840 --> 1:25:36.479 well for my child. 1:25:36.720 --> 1:25:37.600 Oh yes, I do. 1:25:37.800 --> 1:25:38.400 I love that. 1:25:38.520 --> 1:25:38.720 Yeah. 1:25:38.760 --> 1:25:41.200 Their whole thing, like I feel like it hasn't really 1:25:41.240 --> 1:25:45.439 been done effectively since, but does the ideas of like 1:25:45.920 --> 1:25:50.559 them being the least American family in terms of like 1:25:50.640 --> 1:25:54.880 ascribing to these like white supremacist American values and yet 1:25:55.120 --> 1:25:58.679 really thriving all at all times. It's very cool. 1:25:59.439 --> 1:26:01.559 Yeah, I mean, like, when you think about it, it's 1:26:01.640 --> 1:26:05.280 like gom as a Morticia. Not only do they just 1:26:05.520 --> 1:26:09.920 love each other like fiercely, like they are very romantic, 1:26:10.080 --> 1:26:13.719 very sexual, very you know, like on each other's level, 1:26:14.080 --> 1:26:17.200 but they also respect each other. They co parent together. 1:26:17.360 --> 1:26:20.360 It's not like, you know, oh, I'm cleaning up after 1:26:20.439 --> 1:26:25.560 my useless husband while he you know, weaponizes his incompetence. 1:26:26.000 --> 1:26:30.400 You know. It's, uh, it's very interesting, it's very wholesome. 1:26:30.800 --> 1:26:34.320 I also love how they're just so secure in their 1:26:34.360 --> 1:26:38.040 sexuality so much, like they know they're the hottest people 1:26:38.080 --> 1:26:40.760 in the room and the hottest people to each other. 1:26:41.439 --> 1:26:42.080 It's awesome. 1:26:42.520 --> 1:26:44.040 It's it's great goals. 1:26:44.160 --> 1:26:48.240 Yeah, I was just gonna say, hashtag relationship goals. And yeah, 1:26:48.240 --> 1:26:51.080 I think we talk about that in quite a bit 1:26:51.080 --> 1:26:54.240 of depth in our first episode, so if listeners want 1:26:54.280 --> 1:26:59.599 to go back and check that out, we wax poetic 1:26:59.640 --> 1:27:04.720 about it. The last thing I wanted to say was 1:27:05.360 --> 1:27:09.920 Wednesday talking about Gary's play, right after she's initially been 1:27:10.000 --> 1:27:12.560 cast in it, and she's like, I don't want to 1:27:12.600 --> 1:27:15.360 be in this and she says, your work is puerile 1:27:15.520 --> 1:27:19.360 and under dramatized. You lack any sense of structure, character 1:27:19.800 --> 1:27:24.760 or the Aristotelian unities. And it's like us describing most 1:27:24.800 --> 1:27:26.639 movies they cover on the. 1:27:26.600 --> 1:27:35.000 Podcast Wednesday Adams come on the show, Christina, please, Yeah, 1:27:35.000 --> 1:27:36.960 I think that that's all I had. But that was 1:27:37.000 --> 1:27:40.000 a lot. I mean this, this movie gives a lot 1:27:40.040 --> 1:27:43.439 to chew on or however you say that correctly, a 1:27:43.479 --> 1:27:44.840 lot of gristle to. 1:27:45.080 --> 1:27:47.759 That was the word I was chew on. It's another 1:27:47.840 --> 1:27:48.360 weird word. 1:27:49.280 --> 1:27:51.800 Some one did say that Fester and Debbie is like 1:27:51.840 --> 1:27:55.880 Trump and Millennia, but I disagree completely, because Fester adores 1:27:55.960 --> 1:28:00.719 Debbie and Trump doesn't adore anybody except himself and his money. 1:28:00.800 --> 1:28:01.400 That's true. 1:28:02.160 --> 1:28:05.599 Yeah, it's like, guys, why you got a drag Fester? Yeah, no, 1:28:05.920 --> 1:28:08.000 it doesn't deserve that Festers. 1:28:08.160 --> 1:28:10.760 He's had it hard enough. It feels almost subversive to 1:28:10.800 --> 1:28:16.760 me that he's this like love sick, like longing for companionship, 1:28:16.880 --> 1:28:20.240 and he wants to be married so much, and he's 1:28:20.280 --> 1:28:23.880 like he submits to the first woman that shows any 1:28:23.920 --> 1:28:27.360 interest in him. He's you know, he's like a very 1:28:28.080 --> 1:28:29.559 just love sick man. 1:28:29.720 --> 1:28:30.120 I mean, it. 1:28:30.080 --> 1:28:31.320 Feels like to see more of that. 1:28:31.680 --> 1:28:34.960 It feels like they're they like he or Debbie keeps 1:28:34.960 --> 1:28:38.799 waiting for him to feel emasculated, right, and he just doesn't. 1:28:38.920 --> 1:28:39.639 He just doesn't. 1:28:40.360 --> 1:28:41.040 It's not a. 1:28:41.000 --> 1:28:44.519 Part of his makeup. And I'm like, great, I don't know. 1:28:44.640 --> 1:28:48.080 It's he was looking for a woman to throw a 1:28:48.120 --> 1:28:52.160 toaster in his bats up and she found him. Yeah, 1:28:52.439 --> 1:28:56.439 rip Debbie. 1:28:55.320 --> 1:29:00.360 Oh daddy. My mom took personal offense that her name 1:29:00.439 --> 1:29:03.439 was Debbie, just because of how Fester would be like, 1:29:03.800 --> 1:29:06.960 oh Debbie. She's like, stop. 1:29:06.560 --> 1:29:08.720 It wait, is that your mom's name? 1:29:09.080 --> 1:29:13.639 My mom's name was Debbie. I take personal but her 1:29:13.720 --> 1:29:19.439 name is Debbie, just because how dare oh poor mama. 1:29:20.120 --> 1:29:23.479 Does anyone have anything else they'd like to talk about? 1:29:23.960 --> 1:29:24.320 I don't know. 1:29:24.360 --> 1:29:27.160 I like how this movie was as good as it 1:29:27.400 --> 1:29:30.200 was for the run time that it had. It doesn't 1:29:30.240 --> 1:29:33.040 feel like it dragged on for too long, except for 1:29:33.120 --> 1:29:36.240 you know, Fester's O face that dragged on a bit 1:29:36.280 --> 1:29:40.360 too long. But I just watched it this morning with 1:29:40.400 --> 1:29:42.760 my family and we laughed our asses off. 1:29:42.800 --> 1:29:46.240 So it's like a cool ninety four minutes or something 1:29:46.320 --> 1:29:48.800 like that. I love it. We should go back to 1:29:48.800 --> 1:29:53.639 those I know, so I'm always saying the movie does 1:29:53.680 --> 1:30:03.160 pass the Bechdel test where Wednesday and Amanda insult each other, 1:30:04.080 --> 1:30:06.200 Wednesday and Debbie. 1:30:06.680 --> 1:30:10.679 All of the Debbie confrontation that Mortitia and Debbie. There's 1:30:10.720 --> 1:30:12.759 at least one exchange in there that. 1:30:12.840 --> 1:30:15.920 Yeah, Martitia and her mom. I think either mostly talk 1:30:16.000 --> 1:30:21.360 about the baby who's a boy or Gomez, but maybe 1:30:21.400 --> 1:30:24.519 there's a couple quick exchanges. Either way, the movie passes. 1:30:24.920 --> 1:30:26.520 She curses Debbie. 1:30:26.800 --> 1:30:31.320 Oh yeah, that passes. A woman curses, another one cursing Debbie. 1:30:33.600 --> 1:30:38.519 So yeah, lots of passes. Lots of combinations are nipple scale, though, 1:30:38.800 --> 1:30:42.639 where we rate the movie zero to five nipples based 1:30:42.680 --> 1:30:48.360 on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens, I'll give it. 1:30:49.320 --> 1:30:53.960 I think like a three, maybe even as much as 1:30:53.960 --> 1:30:57.240 a three and a half. And maybe that's too generous, 1:30:57.360 --> 1:31:02.960 but considering this is a mainst stream studio movie in 1:31:03.000 --> 1:31:09.040 the early nineties that has a full monologue where a 1:31:09.200 --> 1:31:17.280 character acknowledges land theft and displacement and poverty and class 1:31:17.320 --> 1:31:23.760 disparity between white colonizers and Native people, and that is 1:31:23.840 --> 1:31:31.160 followed by a scene of said colonizers burning like their 1:31:32.520 --> 1:31:36.760 village burning to the ground, and you know, the main 1:31:36.840 --> 1:31:41.080 pilgrim lady being tied up at the stake about to 1:31:41.120 --> 1:31:45.320 be burned. All that like, it's very cathartic. As we've discussed, 1:31:45.479 --> 1:31:50.640 It's not handled perfectly. There are you know, things that 1:31:50.680 --> 1:31:53.400 could have been done a little bit differently, but again 1:31:53.439 --> 1:31:58.160 for the early nineties, it feels pretty groundbreaking for a 1:31:58.200 --> 1:32:01.960 movie to have done that. So and I just you know, 1:32:02.040 --> 1:32:04.800 I love this family. I love the characters who are 1:32:04.840 --> 1:32:08.080 girls and women in this family. They get most of 1:32:08.120 --> 1:32:11.559 the best jokes and laugh lines. I love it when 1:32:12.280 --> 1:32:14.880 women are allowed to be funny and allowed to have 1:32:15.000 --> 1:32:18.919 jokes because so few movies and so a few comedy 1:32:18.960 --> 1:32:23.439 movies let women say the funny things. But most of 1:32:23.479 --> 1:32:28.560 the best jokes are either Mortitia or Wednesday. Mabby is 1:32:28.560 --> 1:32:35.120 pretty funny too, and Debbie's funny too. Yeah, it's great 1:32:35.600 --> 1:32:38.160 every performance. No one does a bad job. 1:32:38.240 --> 1:32:39.839 No one does a bad job in this movie. 1:32:39.960 --> 1:32:42.559 So yeah, three, I'm gonna three and a half and 1:32:43.400 --> 1:32:46.639 I'll give one to Wednesday, one to more Titia, one 1:32:46.680 --> 1:32:51.760 to Debbie. She did nothing wrong, right, maybe Ibbie, And 1:32:51.800 --> 1:32:54.839 I'll give my half nipple to all to the kitten 1:32:56.080 --> 1:32:59.160 maybe got buried alive at the beginning rip. I know, 1:32:59.760 --> 1:33:01.960 I think it escaped. That's my head canon. 1:33:02.680 --> 1:33:04.800 I think I'll make sure at three point five. With 1:33:04.880 --> 1:33:07.760 the understanding that we've talked about a bit, and as 1:33:07.880 --> 1:33:10.880 you talk about in your video, ALLI like that my 1:33:11.160 --> 1:33:12.160 enjoyment of the movie. 1:33:12.240 --> 1:33:12.920 Does you know. 1:33:13.000 --> 1:33:17.320 I would never argue against a Native viewer who was like, no, 1:33:17.400 --> 1:33:19.360 fuck it, it's still doing a lot of the same 1:33:19.880 --> 1:33:22.400 reductive tropes that we see in movies over and over. 1:33:22.520 --> 1:33:25.080 But I agree with the Caitlin that this movie is 1:33:25.200 --> 1:33:29.120 doing this, particularly for its time, something that not only 1:33:29.200 --> 1:33:34.639 were other family directed media not attempting, but in short 1:33:34.760 --> 1:33:39.519 order would be doing the exact opposite with Pocahontas. And 1:33:39.640 --> 1:33:41.760 so the fact that this came out a year and 1:33:41.760 --> 1:33:45.479 a half before Pocahontas, I think is actually it is 1:33:45.680 --> 1:33:49.240 really really worth remembering how these movies are in conversation 1:33:49.360 --> 1:33:53.400 with one another, even though there are shortcomings that this 1:33:53.520 --> 1:33:59.040 movie has and that it is still ultimately centered on whiteness. Yeah, 1:33:59.200 --> 1:34:01.000 I mean, we've talked about most of it. But I 1:34:01.040 --> 1:34:03.839 think that this this movie and this like series in general, 1:34:03.880 --> 1:34:06.960 it just is like an endless amount of opportunities to 1:34:07.080 --> 1:34:11.280 push back on popular white supremacist American narratives, and I 1:34:11.320 --> 1:34:14.320 think this movie is the best example of them really 1:34:14.560 --> 1:34:17.400 swinging for the fences with it. So I'm gonna go 1:34:17.479 --> 1:34:19.719 three and a half nipples, and I'm giving them all 1:34:19.880 --> 1:34:22.959 to the very son Enfeld episode. 1:34:24.280 --> 1:34:26.880 Well, speaking of rip RIP. 1:34:29.280 --> 1:34:34.400 I am giving it four because I loved it. I 1:34:34.439 --> 1:34:37.200 really loved it, just because of how cathartic it was, 1:34:37.360 --> 1:34:41.040 you know, and how it still like holds up now, 1:34:41.320 --> 1:34:45.080 and especially because like it could be made today, but 1:34:45.120 --> 1:34:47.719 then it would be canceled for being woke or something 1:34:47.800 --> 1:34:50.959 equally ridiculous and be like God that was so forced, 1:34:51.080 --> 1:34:55.560 or Wednesday gave that speech you know today, right, but 1:34:56.240 --> 1:35:01.479 still they would be wrong today anyway. So I would 1:35:01.479 --> 1:35:07.280 give my nipples to Mortitia and to Debbie that who 1:35:07.280 --> 1:35:12.599 else can have them? Who else? A thing? 1:35:12.880 --> 1:35:13.240 Why not? 1:35:13.560 --> 1:35:19.559 But he has to watch his name first after got No. 1:35:21.360 --> 1:35:26.960 Really, the of this movie is just doing so much, 1:35:27.280 --> 1:35:32.679 like so much? Why why all the incest implications with 1:35:32.680 --> 1:35:33.720 with the mom right? 1:35:33.800 --> 1:35:35.519 Is thing related to them? 1:35:35.880 --> 1:35:36.400 I hope not? 1:35:36.680 --> 1:35:37.120 I hope not. 1:35:37.439 --> 1:35:39.799 I guess I was talking about the mom thing? Why 1:35:39.720 --> 1:35:43.559 the mom thing? But why is that there? Why is 1:35:43.600 --> 1:35:46.479 that there? I don't know. Also shout out okay, I 1:35:46.680 --> 1:35:49.719 I couldn't tell if the movie. I think the movie 1:35:49.800 --> 1:35:52.960 was poking fun at him a little bit, But I 1:35:53.160 --> 1:35:58.360 liked that Fester was not ashamed or embarrassed or felt 1:35:58.360 --> 1:36:01.160 any which way about saying that he hadn't had sex before. 1:36:02.320 --> 1:36:02.719 Yeah. 1:36:02.800 --> 1:36:05.759 I liked that. I thought that was a cool moment, 1:36:06.200 --> 1:36:10.200 and especially because the contrasted, like the joke of the 1:36:10.240 --> 1:36:14.439 scene is that she is lying about being a virgin, 1:36:14.680 --> 1:36:19.240 because that is something that is valued, especially in white womanhood, 1:36:19.320 --> 1:36:21.800 is you know, purity, blah blah blah and that. But 1:36:21.960 --> 1:36:25.800 it's gross. It's like emasculating if men, you know what 1:36:25.840 --> 1:36:27.360 I'm talking about. But he was like, oh, I'm a 1:36:27.400 --> 1:36:30.639 virgin too, awesome. I was like, I love you love. 1:36:30.680 --> 1:36:33.200 I feel like the movie doesn't really cast judgment on 1:36:33.520 --> 1:36:36.640 him for that. Yeah, but I don't know. I was like, 1:36:36.680 --> 1:36:37.200 probably the. 1:36:37.200 --> 1:36:39.960 Nineteen ninety three I'm sure that that is supposed to 1:36:39.960 --> 1:36:42.640 be a laugh live but it just really endeared me 1:36:42.760 --> 1:36:44.800 to him. And it just is another way that the 1:36:44.800 --> 1:36:50.920 Adams family kind of consistently eschewes these gender norms. 1:36:51.760 --> 1:36:56.360 Well, there you have it. That's our Adams Family Valuees episode. Allie, 1:36:56.360 --> 1:36:59.960 thank you so much for joining us. Where can people 1:37:00.080 --> 1:37:04.439 bull check out your work? Tell us what you'd like 1:37:04.479 --> 1:37:05.000 to plug? 1:37:05.320 --> 1:37:08.720 Okay, so you can visit me on YouTube. That's where 1:37:08.760 --> 1:37:11.000 you'll get like my quality stuff. If you want to 1:37:11.040 --> 1:37:14.519 see my less quality stuff but still entertaining. I guess 1:37:14.880 --> 1:37:19.840 I'm on TikTok. I still run the Ali Nati Test 1:37:20.160 --> 1:37:24.320 on Tumblr, but it's the Aila Dash the Dash Aila 1:37:24.520 --> 1:37:30.599 Dash Test on Tumblr. I also run another blog that's 1:37:31.000 --> 1:37:34.400 not as fun, but I still try to make it pretty, 1:37:34.520 --> 1:37:37.639 you know, like relevant or important. It's called the your 1:37:37.680 --> 1:37:42.639 fave is Anti Native and that one is about It's 1:37:42.720 --> 1:37:45.439 kind of in the vein of your favorite problematic, except 1:37:45.479 --> 1:37:51.960 it focuses specifically on public figures, so actors or politicians 1:37:52.320 --> 1:37:56.439 or world leaders or whoever with like a big public 1:37:56.720 --> 1:38:02.480 influential presence how they have been anti Indigenous with their racism, 1:38:03.000 --> 1:38:06.439 either in the past or currently. So it doesn't like 1:38:06.680 --> 1:38:11.240 just tackle any like rando on the Internet. It's specifically like, 1:38:11.360 --> 1:38:13.720 this is who this person is, this is how you 1:38:13.800 --> 1:38:17.640 know who they are, and this is what they've said, 1:38:17.880 --> 1:38:20.559 you know, And it's less about you know call out 1:38:20.600 --> 1:38:27.559 culture and more about how normalized anti indigenous racism is 1:38:28.200 --> 1:38:32.160 like across a scale, you know, like if our politicians 1:38:32.160 --> 1:38:35.240 and our movie stars and stuff can get away with 1:38:35.320 --> 1:38:38.519 saying it, I mean, of course the people, the rando's 1:38:38.560 --> 1:38:40.479 and the comments are going to feel comfortable saying it, 1:38:41.160 --> 1:38:43.800 you know. So there's a lot of people on there, 1:38:44.280 --> 1:38:48.800 but more creatively, I mean, like my YouTube is the 1:38:48.840 --> 1:38:53.639 place to go for some more fun. And I have 1:38:53.840 --> 1:38:57.599 a project that's coming up soon that should be done 1:38:57.640 --> 1:38:59.320 sometime this week. It was supposed to be do on 1:38:59.400 --> 1:39:03.040 Memorial Day, but me and deadlines since it's not my job. 1:39:03.240 --> 1:39:06.840 So take your time and thank you so much for 1:39:06.880 --> 1:39:09.559 inviting me. I always love coming on. And this is 1:39:09.640 --> 1:39:10.719 number four now. 1:39:10.640 --> 1:39:14.839 Right, yeah, five timer jacket on the way, the jacket 1:39:14.840 --> 1:39:15.360 we makeup. 1:39:15.479 --> 1:39:17.040 I'm so happy you guys aren't sake of me. 1:39:17.760 --> 1:39:20.000 I love you, We love you. Oh my gosh, thank you, 1:39:20.080 --> 1:39:21.360 thank you for coming back. 1:39:21.560 --> 1:39:26.320 Thank you, thank you Megwitch. I did want to say though, 1:39:26.360 --> 1:39:30.080 I wanted to really thank both of you because of 1:39:30.200 --> 1:39:36.439 the search the landfill hashtag that we talked about in 1:39:36.520 --> 1:39:41.639 the Avatar episode, because they found them. Like I try 1:39:41.680 --> 1:39:44.479 to keep you guys in the updated every time new 1:39:44.520 --> 1:39:49.760 information came up, but they found them, and so I 1:39:50.040 --> 1:39:51.880 you know, obviously a lot of people did a lot 1:39:51.920 --> 1:39:56.000 of work, but I think that though talking about it 1:39:56.000 --> 1:39:59.719 on the Beckel Cast probably put it on people's radar, 1:40:00.120 --> 1:40:04.280 otherwise wouldn't have. So I think every little bit helps, 1:40:04.320 --> 1:40:07.240 And I just wanted to thank you guys for doing that, so. 1:40:07.680 --> 1:40:10.200 Literally the least we could do. Thank you, Thank you 1:40:10.280 --> 1:40:13.120 so much for consistently bringing important stories here. 1:40:13.520 --> 1:40:15.920 Let's do the same for Jonathan Johns and give him 1:40:15.920 --> 1:40:16.519 some justice. 1:40:16.760 --> 1:40:20.519 Justice for Jonathan. I still yeah, I literally just checked 1:40:20.520 --> 1:40:23.040 to be like, has anyone else from Parks and Rex 1:40:23.080 --> 1:40:26.280 said anything not at the time of this recording. 1:40:26.800 --> 1:40:28.519 Yeah, so fix that. 1:40:29.200 --> 1:40:33.479 Fucking fix it. Yeah, And with that, let's go, yell, 1:40:34.120 --> 1:40:36.600 let's go shake our fist at Debbie's grave. 1:40:39.560 --> 1:40:47.000 By bye bye. The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, 1:40:47.120 --> 1:40:50.960 hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lichterman, 1:40:51.240 --> 1:40:54.639 edited by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by 1:40:54.640 --> 1:40:58.719 Mike Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Voss Krasinski. Our logo 1:40:58.880 --> 1:41:02.080 and merch is designed by Jamie Loftus and a special 1:41:02.120 --> 1:41:06.160 thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, 1:41:06.280 --> 1:41:08.480 please visit link Tree Slash Bechtelcast