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Speaker 1: On the Bechdelcast. The questions asked if movies have.

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Speaker 2: Women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 2: or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and

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Speaker 2: best start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 3: No no, no, no, no no no no no no

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Speaker 3: no no, no no, it's the Bechdel Cast. Oh you're

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Speaker 3: gonna keep Oh I will? It failed immediately?

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Speaker 4: Okay, Well, what is what is the beel Cast introduction?

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Speaker 4: If not a shocking lack of commitment on both of

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Speaker 4: our parts. I think that that.

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Speaker 3: Is what a true all about.

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Speaker 4: It's being like, okay, you get the concept, but we're

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Speaker 4: not gonna sing. Okay, the podcast is free to listen to. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Shamie Loftus,

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Speaker 4: and I'm not gonna sing.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah. My name's Caitlin Dernte. I really wish I

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Speaker 3: had the foresight to like write out a Like's family

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Speaker 3: style Bechdel Cast theme song, but and it turns out

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Speaker 3: I'm not an improviser, so it didn't work out.

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Speaker 4: Well, here we are, and we are doing this our

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Speaker 4: second Adams Family episode with I feel the superior Adams

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Speaker 4: Family movie. But before we get into it, what the

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Speaker 4: hell is this show? This show is a podcast where

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Speaker 4: we take a look at your favorite movies using an

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Speaker 4: intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel Test as a jumping

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Speaker 4: off point for discussion. But Caitlin, what.

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Speaker 3: The hell is that? Well, it is just a little

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Speaker 3: media metric that first appeared in our best friend Alison

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Speaker 3: Bechdel's comic dis to Watch out For. It has many versions.

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Speaker 3: The one that we use is do two characters of

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Speaker 3: a marginalized gender have names? And do they speak to

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Speaker 3: each other about something other than a man? And ideally

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Speaker 3: we like it when it's a narratively substantial, meaty conversation.

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Speaker 3: Not a problem for this.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, let's get let's get into it.

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Speaker 3: We have an amazing returning guest, Yea, and I want

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Speaker 3: to get her in here. Indeed, she is the creator

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Speaker 3: of the Ali Naughty Test. She is a content creator

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Speaker 3: with a terrific YouTube channel. You remember her from episodes

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Speaker 3: on movies like Frozen, Two Avatar, Aquaman. It's Ali Nanny.

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Speaker 1: I'm here. I rolled up because I heard you guys

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Speaker 1: need a nanny.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes I might kill you.

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Speaker 1: Guys and take your money.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I've got this like weird brother who's single, which

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Speaker 4: is a statement that's half true.

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Speaker 3: I have a weird brother.

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Speaker 4: He's daying someone.

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Speaker 1: It's so good to be back. I was so excited

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Speaker 1: when you guys asked me back, especially for this video.

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Speaker 4: Welcome back, yes, because we I mean, you have made

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Speaker 4: a video on this very movie.

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Speaker 1: Yep, what was it? It was Sada the fat culture

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Speaker 1: critic on YouTube. She these prompts for YouTube videos, and

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Speaker 1: it's usually like for a positive emotion, like one scene

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Speaker 1: for joy, one scene for forgiveness, one scene for hope,

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Speaker 1: and this one was one scene for resistance because a

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Speaker 1: lot of people ask me about my opinion about this movie,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, what better way to just dive

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Speaker 1: in because it was my one scene for resistance.

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Speaker 4: Because it's perfect, it's a great video. We're gonna link

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Speaker 4: it in the description as well. I mean, just congrassle

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Speaker 4: your channel.

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Speaker 3: It fucking rocks, Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: I work so hard on it, and I'm not monetized

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Speaker 1: because as soon as I turn it into a job,

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Speaker 1: I'll hate.

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Speaker 3: It, sure of course.

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Speaker 1: So it's just I need an outlet for this sort

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Speaker 1: of thing, and it's something I've always wanted to do

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Speaker 1: and it's it's really great and I'm just very bad

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Speaker 1: at deadlines.

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Speaker 4: So the but it doesn't matter if it's not your job.

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Speaker 1: It's true, it's a hobby.

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Speaker 3: That rocks.

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Speaker 4: Well, thank you, thank you for coming back. Yeah, we

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Speaker 4: have so much to talk about today, but let's get

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Speaker 4: started in the way we always get started. What is

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Speaker 4: your personal history with this movie, which I guess we

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Speaker 4: haven't said the title Adam's Family Values in nineteen ninety three.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and you're corrected as the superior movie. And I

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Speaker 1: don't know, maybe it's because I'm biased, because I explain

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Speaker 1: in my video for it that, you know, I grew

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Speaker 1: up in a biracial family. You know, my dad is

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Speaker 1: a Nishnabe and my mother's white, and me and my

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Speaker 1: sisters we grew up, you know, not on a reservation,

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Speaker 1: not on an unseated territory without like a big native

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Speaker 1: community like at all. So because my dad was assimilated,

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Speaker 1: because his mother and his anti were residential school survivors,

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Speaker 1: they didn't have a cultural connection either, you know, so

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Speaker 1: when they raised us, it was you know, we were

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Speaker 1: native and we understood that dad wasn't white, you know,

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Speaker 1: at least visibly, and they would show us like we

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Speaker 1: still wanted that connection, you know, to the culture and

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Speaker 1: didn't really know how to go about doing that since

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Speaker 1: we lived so far away, and a lot of stuff

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Speaker 1: that my parents would do was, oh, there's a movie

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Speaker 1: that has Indians in it. Let's show it to them,

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Speaker 1: and they'll think that's cool because it's you know, like

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Speaker 1: their dad, like us. You know. So sometimes it was

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Speaker 1: good and sometimes a lot of times it was not.

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Speaker 1: But you know, with problematic representation isn't a new thing

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Speaker 1: for natives, but this was one of them, and I

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Speaker 1: didn't realize until we get to that specific part why

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Speaker 1: my parents chose to show us this movie. And it's

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Speaker 1: been a favorite sense and I love the hell out

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Speaker 1: of it.

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Speaker 3: Hell yeah.

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Speaker 1: It also helps that when I put my hair in braids,

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Speaker 1: especially if I try to go to like, you know,

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Speaker 1: rallies or pow wows and stuff, because I'm very pigment challenged.

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Speaker 1: I look more like Wednesday than I do like any

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Speaker 1: of my native relatives.

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Speaker 3: Like Okay, Jamie, what about you, what's your relationship with

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Speaker 3: this movie?

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Speaker 4: I was a late comer to it. I think I

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Speaker 4: saw it when I was a kid, but I it wasn't.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I think my mom was just she's like the Adams Family,

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Speaker 4: no goths in this house, which is why I got

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Speaker 4: so into goth stuff because my mom said no goths. Anyways, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: so I got really into the Adam's family as like

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Speaker 4: a teen. I love this movie. It's my favorite of

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Speaker 4: I mean, there's only the two, but this is the

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Speaker 4: better one. I feel like this movie really is like

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Speaker 4: the best use of the Adams Family that I've ever seen,

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Speaker 4: in putting them in fish out of water situations to

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Speaker 4: criticize American culture, which is the point of them. And

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Speaker 4: I don't know. My niece watches that this is unrelated.

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Speaker 4: My niece really enjoys the like animated reboot, and they

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Speaker 4: just don't use any of the cool parts of the

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Speaker 4: Adams Family. It's a waste. I haven't seen Wednesday, can't

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Speaker 4: speak to it. But yes, I love the Adams Family.

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Speaker 4: I think that this movie is doing so much in

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Speaker 4: something that I feel like it's hard to find family

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Speaker 4: films doing now, which is really exkewering and criticizing American

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Speaker 4: culture and not sacrificing any funny to like, you know,

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Speaker 4: be super didactic, which is just you just don't see

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Speaker 4: it a lot. So it's I think one of my

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Speaker 4: favorite comedies. I think, I mean, I think. I also

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Speaker 4: think it's wild that any like has it happened and

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Speaker 4: other things where like Joan Cusack and Christine Baranski two

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Speaker 4: women I love so much, very confusing when they're in

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Speaker 4: the same movie. Their vibes are similar. Sure, yes, and

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Speaker 4: then I did, Caitlin. I didn't run this by you before,

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Speaker 4: but I feel like it's just time to say something

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Speaker 4: that it's been five years. It's been five whole years,

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Speaker 4: eighty four years. So another reason that this is an

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Speaker 4: especially interesting movie for us to cover on the show

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Speaker 4: is because we have previously interviewed the director of this

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Speaker 4: movie in one of the very few lost episodes of

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Speaker 4: the Buxtell Cast. You'll never hear it. We are Barry

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Speaker 4: Son and felt heads on the show. But he was

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Speaker 4: definitely not brief done what our show is about.

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Speaker 3: Or he was and he did not pay attention.

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Speaker 4: We're not sure. I mean, it's like he's busy. I

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Speaker 4: get it, pod has prep. It could be a lot

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Speaker 4: of work and uh, but anyways, it's just a fun

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Speaker 4: fact that something that happened five years ago, and we

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Speaker 4: were like, someday we'll say it.

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Speaker 3: It happened. It did happen.

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Speaker 4: We we covered Wild Wow West, and you'll never.

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Speaker 3: Know what happened in that conversation.

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Speaker 4: You can imagine it, you can wonder, but we'll never tell.

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Speaker 4: But I I feel like it's okay, I don't know.

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Speaker 4: We talked to our point of contact and she was like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: tell everyone it happened.

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Speaker 3: Well, it happened, history, history happened.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 3: Also, at the time, before the interview went the way

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Speaker 3: that it did, we had posted like a screen grab

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Speaker 3: of our zoom call on Twitter, I think, and then

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Speaker 3: people were like, wow, that's cool. And then we just

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Speaker 3: never released that episode and people are like, what wasn't

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Speaker 3: that supposed to be something that came out, and we're like, really, don't,

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Speaker 3: don't talk about it.

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Speaker 4: I really know we were talking about.

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Speaker 1: Have you guys deleted your Twitter?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 4: No, it's sitting dormant. It's just like a fucking.

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Speaker 3: Graveyard and is gone. I was like, good for you,

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Speaker 3: but yeah, I know this happened. And he's in the

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Speaker 3: movie as a cameo. He plays He plays a character's father.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and we are we are we are fans, we

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Speaker 4: are Barry Heads.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was wild which character's.

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Speaker 3: Father Joel Joel's father a ka David Crumholtz his father.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it was.

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Speaker 1: Like if it was the Sarah Miller's father. I was

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Speaker 1: going to be like, oh no.

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Speaker 4: So Also, this was the first I don't I haven't

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Speaker 4: seen this movie in well, it's not even true. I

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Speaker 4: saw it a couple of years ago. They did a

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Speaker 4: double feature with Casper and Adam's Family. Value is great

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Speaker 4: double double. So I saw that a couple of years ago,

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Speaker 4: and that was the last time I saw this. But

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Speaker 4: this is the first time I registered that that's baby

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Speaker 4: David Crumbholts. Oh nokay, I just I didn't know that

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Speaker 4: Bernard was in this film.

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Speaker 3: Bernard the Elf. Yeah, what can you do?

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Speaker 4: Anyways, Yes, I love this movie and that episode exists. Yes,

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Speaker 4: that's all I have to say at this time.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for sharing. I have a pretty limited history

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Speaker 3: with this movie. I probably saw both of the early

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Speaker 3: nineties Adam's families when I was a kid, but I

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Speaker 3: don't know something about my household. We were more of

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Speaker 3: a no goths. We know, it was more that we were.

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Speaker 3: We were a Tim Burton household.

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Speaker 1: Have ten anime betrayals right there.

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Speaker 4: It's funny.

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Speaker 1: There was a time.

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Speaker 3: I won't vouch for the man now, but we Yeah,

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Speaker 3: for some reason, when it came to like nineties Gothy

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Speaker 3: type movies that were mainstream. I mean, my mom fucked up.

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Speaker 3: She should have we should have had these on BHS,

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Speaker 3: but we didn't, and I resent her to this day.

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Speaker 4: We weren't allowed to have Tim Burton I there.

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Speaker 3: Anyway. So all this to say, I didn't really grow

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Speaker 3: up with these movies. I think I probably saw them

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Speaker 3: at some point, but I didn't really immerse myself in

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Speaker 3: them until we covered the first movie, which was what

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Speaker 3: like five six years ago at this point.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, with the Iffy and Danny, I.

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Speaker 3: Think, yeah. And while prepping for that episode, I also

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Speaker 3: watched Adam's Family Values. And these movies are very funny.

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Speaker 3: I love the jokes in them. I wish I had

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Speaker 3: kind of gotten to them sooner. Also side note, there

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Speaker 3: is there is a third movie that I guess is

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Speaker 3: canonically part of the trilogy, although almost the entire cast

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Speaker 3: is different except for Oh the actor who plays Lurch.

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Speaker 3: But there's a movie called Adam's Family Reunion. Yes, from

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Speaker 3: nineteen ninety eight Tim Curry, Tim Curry and Darryl Hannah

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Speaker 3: as Gomez and Mortitia.

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Speaker 4: Wow, I have seen that. I guess that's like, I

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Speaker 4: feel like it's its own thing. Wednesday, it changes, it's

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Speaker 4: a different iteration.

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Speaker 3: I mean once all day. Once you know Angelica Houston

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Speaker 3: isn't there, Christopher.

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Speaker 4: Lloyd or Flintstone's Viva Rock Vegas in that way? Right,

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Speaker 4: You're like, where what's Jane Krakowski doing here?

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Speaker 3: Yes, So anyway, I don't have much of a history

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Speaker 3: with these movies, but I do enjoy them very much,

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Speaker 3: and there's a lot to discuss today. Let's take a

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Speaker 3: quick break and we'll come back for the recap, and

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Speaker 3: we're bad. We're back.

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Speaker 4: Hailey duff is in Adam's Family Reunion. Sorry, I'm looking

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Speaker 4: at this list like as Wednesday or no, as Gina Adams.

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Speaker 4: I'm assuming these are who I don't know. I'm assuming

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Speaker 4: she went to the reunion. Gina Adams Harve.

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Speaker 3: The reunion right right right right? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: This guy straight to video. That would be a good

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Speaker 4: Matreon theme, just like Curse Straight to Video.

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Speaker 3: Sequels. There's so many bad ones with an entirely different

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Speaker 3: cast I always think of like George of the Jungle.

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Speaker 1: And Mortal Kombat Annihilation.

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Speaker 4: Just some really gnarly stuff. A lot of actors in debt,

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Speaker 4: right Yeah. Anyways, Adams family values, which does not suffer

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Speaker 4: from this problem.

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Speaker 3: Not at all. So we see the Adams family that

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Speaker 3: we know and love. We've got Fester screaming at the moon.

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Speaker 3: Wednesday and her brother, Pugsley and their granny are burying

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Speaker 3: a cat alive.

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Speaker 1: What cats.

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Speaker 3: Hid Your cats? Lurch is playing the organ Gomez and

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Speaker 3: thing our arm wrestling. Mortitia announces that she's going to

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Speaker 3: have a baby right now, so the family rushes to

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Speaker 3: the hospital and Mortitia gives birth. They bring the baby

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Speaker 3: home and it looks like a miniature Gomez with a

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Speaker 3: little mustache in the suit and everything. Wednesday and Pugsley

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Speaker 3: resent the new baby and keep trying to kill it,

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Speaker 3: but their plans are thwarted each time.

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Speaker 4: Their love language.

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Speaker 1: Movie perfectly like encapsulates my dark humor that I've developed

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Speaker 1: over the years, because every single thing that happens in

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Speaker 1: it is so bad and hilarious, Like they're dropping the

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Speaker 1: baby and gor didn't hit with bowling.

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Speaker 3: Balls and it's comedy, it's hilarious, it's amazing. Yeah. So

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Speaker 3: Mortitia and Gomez are trying to be romantic because they're

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Speaker 3: still so horny for each other, but their hands are

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Speaker 3: full with three children. They try to hire a nanny.

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Speaker 3: Cynthia Nixon plays.

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Speaker 4: Like Maranda, what are you doing here?

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Speaker 3: Marianda? Yeah, she's one of the people who is interviewed.

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Speaker 3: Another is Debbie Jelinski played by Joan Cusack, who they

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Speaker 3: eventually hire, and they introduce her to their baby, who

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Speaker 3: they've named Pubert. Hilarious, awesome, saying how did.

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Speaker 4: They get away with it?

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Speaker 3: We don't know, we don't know, it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 4: And then did you know that David Hyde Pierce is

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Speaker 4: in the delivery rooms?

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Speaker 3: He plays a doctor Blitz second.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot of good cameos in this too.

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Speaker 3: So Debbie also meets the rest of the family, and

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Speaker 3: when she meets Fester, he's like hubba, hubba, who's that

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Speaker 3: at And then Debbie moves in that night, and then

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Speaker 3: she watches a news report about an unknown serial killer

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Speaker 3: who the media has dubbed the black Widow because she

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Speaker 3: seeks out rich and marries them and kills them on

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Speaker 3: their wedding night so she can collect their money.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember that happening in the Avengers movies, right,

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Speaker 1: would have made things better.

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Speaker 4: It would have been much more interesting.

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Speaker 1: So that's why she showed up an Iron Man two.

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Speaker 4: I do like that they take the trouble to show

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Speaker 4: like four different pictures of Joan Cusack and various wigs.

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Speaker 4: I think the disguises were pretty good. Like so, I mean,

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Speaker 4: while Wednesday's right to say that she was sloppy, I

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Speaker 4: still think she was doing She was running a pretty

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Speaker 4: good grift.

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Speaker 3: It's not until she met the Adams family and she

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Speaker 3: was no match for them.

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Speaker 1: No, if she just would have been so upfront, it

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Speaker 1: would have been like, oh, honey, you want to.

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Speaker 3: That's awesome.

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Speaker 4: She and Martitia really could.

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Speaker 1: Have bonded, I think joined a polycule man and then

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Speaker 1: even Odder exactly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because that's the whole thing that this you know,

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Speaker 3: Black Widow serial Killer is bi Jelenski, and she starts

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Speaker 3: to go through Fester's things and finds all of his assets.

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Speaker 3: There's stocks, there's bonds, there's deeds to houses, all that stuff,

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Speaker 3: and it looks like he will be her next target.

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Speaker 3: But Wednesday is on too Debbie. So Debbie gets rid

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Speaker 3: of Wednesday by lying and telling Mortitia and Gomez that

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Speaker 3: the kids really really want to go to summer camp.

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Speaker 3: So the family arrives at Camp Chippewa.

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Speaker 4: Ah, yeah, it begins.

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Speaker 3: We'll talk about it does not mean orphan, No, it

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Speaker 3: does not. They drop off Wednesday and Pugsley. At the camp,

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Speaker 3: the kids meet a spoiled rich girl named Amanda, as

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Speaker 3: well as the camp directors, Becky and Gary played by

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Speaker 3: Christine Branski and Peter McNichol, who I recognized from Ghostbusters two.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, yes. They also meet another camper, Joel. This

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Speaker 3: is the David Crumholtz character, and he and Wednesday make

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Speaker 3: eyes at each other. Meanwhile, back at the Adams family home,

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Speaker 3: Debbie is there with Fester and she's working on getting

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Speaker 3: him to fall in love with her, and she is succeeding.

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Speaker 3: A double date is arranged Mortitia and Gomez and Fester

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Speaker 3: and Debbie. They go out to dinner. There's this whole

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Speaker 3: scene where Morticia and Gomez do like a tango dance number.

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Speaker 4: That's a great number.

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Speaker 1: It's great that inspired an entire generation of bisexuals. They

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Speaker 1: know it because it was the nineties, and.

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Speaker 4: It was yeah, everyone in that scene is cooking. I

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Speaker 4: love that they're like getting off on making the other jealous,

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Speaker 4: Like it's just oh, it's so good, it's so good. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and then cutting back to Uncle.

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Speaker 3: Fester doing that. What does he do?

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Speaker 1: He's like showing he's like sticking dreadsticks up.

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Speaker 4: Oh, yes, it's just just no, no, it's perfect hilarious.

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Speaker 3: And then later that night, Fester and Debbie are alone

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Speaker 3: and she tells him that she's a virgin. Obviously she's lying,

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Speaker 3: but he very sincerely is like me too, and she

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Speaker 3: professes her like you know, love for him, aka she's

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Speaker 3: manipulating him, and they get engaged. Meanwhile, at camp, Wednesday

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Speaker 3: is having a terrible time among all of the rich

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Speaker 3: blonde children, especially that girl Amanda. The camp directors put

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Speaker 3: Wednesday and Pugsley in this like time out cabin or

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Speaker 3: it's called like army house hardy House. Little David Crumholtz

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Speaker 3: is sent there as well. He and Wednesday continued to

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Speaker 3: vibe with each other and the three of them try

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Speaker 3: to escape the camp because Wednesday has learned that her

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Speaker 3: uncle Fester is engaged and she wants to try to

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Speaker 3: put an end to it, but the campers and camp

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Speaker 3: directors catch them and stop them from leaving. They like

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Speaker 3: sing Kumbaya at them.

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Speaker 4: They just can't stop appropriating. I can't, I can't, they can't.

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Speaker 1: Act of positivity is a weapon.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, oh yeah, oh my god, absolutely so at

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Speaker 3: the house, Fester and Debbie have an engagement party slash

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Speaker 3: like joint bachelor slash bachelorette parties. Fester is still oblivious

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Speaker 3: that Debbie is conning him. Then they have their wedding.

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Speaker 3: The whole Adam's family is there, including the kids plus Joel.

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Speaker 3: He got invited to the wedding and they managed to

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Speaker 3: leave the camp. Then we cut to Fester and Debbie's

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Speaker 3: honeymoon in Hawaii, where she tries to kill him by

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Speaker 3: throwing a stereo in the bathtub while he's in it,

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00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 3: but just turns him on.

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Speaker 1: He's like, this is so awesome.

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Speaker 3: So now Debbie is pissed that he's still alive and

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Speaker 3: grossed out because now he wants to consummate their marriage

383
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Speaker 3: and have sex ever heard of it? And she's like, okay,

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Speaker 3: but after we make love, you can never see your

385
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Speaker 3: family again, and he's reluctant, but anyone else. Yeah, honestly

386
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 3: a pretty pretty cool move.

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Speaker 1: He got tries so upset that he's alive. It's so mad,

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Speaker 1: and then it's like, oh my god, Christopher Lloyd's fucking face. See.

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Speaker 4: I was surprised at like how in detail that seed

390
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Speaker 4: goes into, because I feel like with the kids movies,

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Speaker 4: you usually get like an implication, but they're just they're

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Speaker 4: just having a frank discussion about fucking.

393
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Speaker 3: Well while he's inside her question mark.

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Speaker 4: It's unclear. I watched it. I'm glad it's not clearer,

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Speaker 4: but the fact that it's a possibility is wild.

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Speaker 1: I think the only reason that it could do that

397
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Speaker 1: was because Gomes and Morticia or clearly fucking like the

398
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 1: entire time through both movies, it's true. And the movie

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Speaker 1: even begins with Wednesday. You know that girl's like the

400
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 1: diamond under the cabbage patch turned into a baby and

401
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: Wednesday's like our sand sucks.

402
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Speaker 3: That's hilarious joke anyway, So he Fester doesn't want to

403
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,679
Speaker 3: cut ties with his family. He's very reluctant, but he

404
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 3: agrees because he's so freaking horny. Many such cases, the

405
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,880
Speaker 3: leaps in logic that we all do because of horniness,

406
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 3: you know, yeah, Okay, So then they return from their honeymoon.

407
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 3: Debbie is still furious that Fester is alive, but she's

408
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 3: kind of accepted that he's going to be sticking around,

409
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Speaker 3: so she gives him a makeover with like a bowl cut.

410
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Speaker 4: He seems to be into it.

411
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Speaker 3: She is a dom, he is a sub. And then

412
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Speaker 3: they move into a mansion while the rest of the

413
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Speaker 3: family receives word that Fester can never see them again,

414
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,120
Speaker 3: and they're like, what the fuck. So Morticia and Gomez

415
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 3: go to Debbie and Fester's new house to be like, Debbie,

416
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Speaker 3: U succubis, let us see Fester.

417
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Speaker 4: And then the iconic but Debbie Pastels moment is so good.

418
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I love that Mortitia respects the hell out

419
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Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, it's like you, you've put him under

420
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Speaker 1: some sexual seductive spell. I respect that.

421
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Speaker 4: But Debbie, it's so and I love the like the

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Speaker 4: Angelica Houston lighting. She's just so movie star, her little

423
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Speaker 4: eye line light that just irrationally follows her throughout everything,

424
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Speaker 4: and I just love it.

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Speaker 3: It's so good. So, yeah, they they confront Debbie, but

426
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Speaker 3: she refuses to let them see Fester, who is cowering

427
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Speaker 3: in the corner, too afraid of Debbie to defy her,

428
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Speaker 3: so the family goes to the police and tries to

429
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Speaker 3: report Debbie parentheses ACAB include Nathan Lane playing a cop.

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Speaker 4: That was that was.

431
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Speaker 3: That was a hard one. That's a hard one. But nonetheless,

432
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Speaker 3: because the police are useless, they do nothing to help

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Speaker 3: the family.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that's a that's a shock, right, They never do that.

435
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 1: They're usually so competent.

436
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 3: And oh yeah, meanwhile, the kids are back at the

437
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 3: summer camp and the camp directors are organizing a play

438
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 3: about the First Thanksgiving.

439
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 4: And you know that they're obsessed with this racist story

440
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 4: because they're doing it in the summer for some reason. Ye,

441
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 4: Like yeah, fuck, And.

442
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: Like it makes even less sense because that's not even

443
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 1: the tribe. I mean, like, it's not gonna make sense

444
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: for car.

445
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 3: It's not the tribe. Pocahontas was not at the First Thanksgiving.

446
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 3: Because Wednesday gets cast as Pocahontas. They start rehearsing the play.

447
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 3: It is horrendous for many reasons. Obviously we'll talk a

448
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 3: lot about this more, but Wednesday, Pugsley and Joel are like, Okay,

449
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 3: this sucks. We don't want to participate in your awful play.

450
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 3: So they are sent back to the Harmon House and

451
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 3: made to watch a bunch of like uplifting family friendly media,

452
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 3: Disney movies, Sound of Music, Brady Bunch Annie, all that

453
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 3: kind of stuff to fix their bad attitude. Meanwhile, Pubert

454
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 3: the baby seems to be sick or possessed because he

455
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 3: suddenly looks like a more traditional cute baby with like

456
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 3: rosy cheeks and blonde curls.

457
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 4: He likes Doctor Seuss books, he wants the cat in

458
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 4: the Hat so good.

459
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, Hubert looks like me when I was a baby,

460
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,919
Speaker 1: because exactly what my hair used to look like?

461
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 3: Oh wow, Okay, I don't know.

462
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 1: And then I guess I decolonize because now it's uh

463
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 1: this color and gray.

464
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 3: Yeah. Anyway, so they think Pubert is possessed maybe because

465
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 3: of this like troubled family life ordeal that they're going through.

466
00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 3: Fester abandoning them, and so they work on trying to

467
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 3: fix this. Cut back to the camp, it is time

468
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 3: for the Thanksgiving play. Obviously, it's very whitewashed revisionist history

469
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 3: version of the Thanksgiving narrative. So Wednesday goes off script

470
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 3: gives a monologue about colonialism, stolen land modern day injustices

471
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 3: that native people face, and then she and the other

472
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 3: native characters in the play literally burn the set of

473
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 3: the play and tie up that snobby rich girl Amanda,

474
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 3: who had been cast as like the lead pilgrim woman.

475
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 3: The whole thing is chaos. It's very cathartic, so good,

476
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 3: and then Wednesday and Pugsley escape. After Wednesday and Joel

477
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 3: share a heartfelt goodbye. Back at Fester and Debbie's house,

478
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 3: she wraps up a b as a birthday present for Fester,

479
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 3: once again trying to kill him, but he's like, oh

480
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 3: my god, is this a bomb? Thank you so much.

481
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 3: But she leaves the house and goes to a bar

482
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 3: where Tony Shaloub is singing Macho Man.

483
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: As you do.

484
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 4: Just then you think it couldn't get any better. There's

485
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 4: Tony Shaloub at a bar singing Macho Man.

486
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 3: And then I guess the idea is like Debbie leaves

487
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 3: so that the house can explode and then she'll come

488
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 3: back to be like, oh no, my poor husband. But

489
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 3: Fester survives the explosion, so Debbie pulls a gun on

490
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 3: him and admits that she doesn't love him, that she

491
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,479
Speaker 3: wants to kill him, and take his money. But before

492
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 3: she can do any of that, Thing the Adams family

493
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 3: disembodied hand runs Debbie over with a car and rescues

494
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 3: Fester and they drive off.

495
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: Upon this most recent viewing, there's a piece of dialogue

496
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: earlier on in the movie where Fester was talking about

497
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: how he's been jealous of Gomez and Mortitia's relationship, and

498
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: Gomez says something like, well, you have Thing, And I

499
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: was like, has Thing.

500
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 3: Been jerking off Fester this whole time?

501
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: And then Thing comes and saves him from the woman

502
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: who stole him away from him.

503
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 4: So, look, everything in this family is fluid, and don't

504
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 4: worry about it. What happens in Adam's manner stays in

505
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 4: Adam's manner. I also love cousin it and his wife.

506
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 4: That was a really fun, touchy but he's got a

507
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 4: he's got a normy wife and they seem very happy.

508
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 3: And then then they have a baby, and what a

509
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 3: cute kid.

510
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you guys something. Yeah, it was me.

511
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: I was cousin it.

512
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 3: A celeb unkenny. I'm Kenny resemblance of Okay. So back

513
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 3: at the Adams family home, Mortitia is trying to care

514
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 3: for this new version of her baby, and Gomez is

515
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 3: like bedridden and dying. I'm not really sure what's going

516
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 3: on there no extra But then Fester returns home, as

517
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 3: do the children, so the family reunites. But oh no,

518
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 3: Debbie shows up with a rifle and puts the whole

519
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 3: family in a bunch of electric chairs, shows them a

520
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 3: slide show of all the people she has murdered, her

521
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 3: past husbands and her parents when she was ten years

522
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 3: old because they gave her Malibu Barbie instead of Ballerina Barbie.

523
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: Incredible, incredible because then her parents might have taken it

524
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: too far. But who else does Debbie kill? She kills

525
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: a doctor because he's snipped dinner because the pope had

526
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: a cold, not a girl. And she kills a senator

527
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: and there's nothing wrong with that.

528
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, some of some of Debbie's crimes.

529
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 3: You're like, I support it.

530
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, wait, you know whatever, it's valid.

531
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 5: Yeah.

532
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 3: So, meanwhile, the only family member who Debbie didn't tie

533
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 3: up is baby Pubert. He's on the loose, looking like

534
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 3: a mini Gomez again, you know, zipping around the house

535
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 3: and setting in motion a final destination style Rube Goldberg

536
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 3: thing that electrocutes Debbie and turns her to dust. We

537
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 3: cut to sometime later, the Adams family is safe and

538
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 3: together and back to their normal cousin It and It's wife,

539
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 3: Margaret and their baby come over for baby Pubert's first

540
00:32:54,320 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 3: birthday party and bring along their nanny, Dementia, who seems

541
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 3: like a very good match for Fester because they look identical.

542
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 3: And Joel also comes to see Wednesday, and the movie

543
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 3: ends with Joel being like, oh, Wednesday, I hope we

544
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 3: can get married one day, and she's like, ooh, gross,

545
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 3: cool it. And then she's like, I'd rather be like

546
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 3: Debbie and kill my husband, except she was sloppy and

547
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 3: I would get away with it. And then she plays

548
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 3: a little graveyard prank on Joel the end. Oh, and

549
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,719
Speaker 3: then the credit song is I forget when episode We

550
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 3: were just talking about this on Jamie, but when you

551
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 3: were like, Oh, I miss the days when the credit

552
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 3: song was a rap recap.

553
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 4: Oh my god, this is such a good one. This

554
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 4: one it like it makes no sense and therefore it's perfect. Yeah,

555
00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 4: I love it. What did they call it a fish?

556
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 4: It has such a funny title.

557
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 3: Oh, I don't even know.

558
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, the last movie I saw they did that recently

559
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: was PG Psycho gore Man, where they had like some

560
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: nineties not nineties, like eighties white rapper. I guess summarize

561
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: the video.

562
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:20,760
Speaker 4: Okay, it's called Adam's Family.

563
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 3: Woomp. That's okay. Oh yeah, they're sort of like that.

564
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: Woomp. There.

565
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it couldn't be more nineteen ninety three if

566
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 4: it wanted to be. It's Adams Family.

567
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 3: Woomp.

568
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 4: You are seeing you are valued?

569
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,399
Speaker 3: Yes, okay, so let's take a quick break and we'll

570
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 3: come back to discuss.

571
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 4: And we're back, Ali, We're going to kick it to you.

572
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 4: Where would you like to start?

573
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: Oh? Okay, Well, first of all, perfect casting all around.

574
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: Everybody in this movie is perfectly cast. I would love, like,

575
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: I know you haven't seen Wednesday, and I've only seen

576
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:09,760
Speaker 1: like a couple episodes on the Netflix. The Netflix Wednesday. Yeah,

577
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 1: but Sabrina Carpenter had Jenna Ortega and her music video

578
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: for Taste, and it was a very death becomes Her,

579
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: very morbid, but very funny and very toxic lesbian. You know,

580
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: it's great, And Sabrina Carpenter could totally be Debbie on Wednesday,

581
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: and I just think that would make things perfect.

582
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 4: That would rock young Debbie.

583
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 1: They do it right this time, or it was like

584
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 1: Debbie's niece or something like right sure, Sabrina Jelenski.

585
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm waiting.

586
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 1: That would be perfect.

587
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 3: And then.

588
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: Wow, where else do I begin? Like I'm going through

589
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: my moods right now? What else?

590
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 4: Here's seventy seventy places to stay?

591
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 2: Oh.

592
00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: Someone said on Tumblr or something about how beheading all

593
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: the billionaires would include Gomes Adams because he's got all

594
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:05,919
Speaker 1: that money, and I was like, you know, he would

595
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 1: just be so honored.

596
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, I say, I think he'd be like, you know what,

597
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 4: you got me, I deserve it.

598
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 3: You got me guys guillotine me.

599
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 1: So Pupert has a little baby guilloty on top of

600
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,320
Speaker 1: his birthday cake and I want one.

601
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 3: Amazing.

602
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,839
Speaker 4: I love usually a movie where the premise is and

603
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 4: now there's a baby, it's so hit or miss premise wise,

604
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 4: but like Pupert Ooh, I love that baby. He's he's

605
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 4: a great addition. He just makes sense. He's just as evil.

606
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 3: I love his little mustache.

607
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,799
Speaker 4: And the story doesn't get lost in like I don't know,

608
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 4: like what now there's a baby, which I just like.

609
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 4: It is a very tired plot point like, yeah, there's

610
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 4: a baby, the kids are trying to kill.

611
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 3: Him, classic narrative.

612
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, and he's kind of loving it.

613
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:59,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, and all that. Wednesday plays with a gea

614
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 1: with the baby dressed up as Marie Antoinette, and I

615
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 1: was children paying attention to comrade Wednesday.

616
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 3: Fun fact, Hubert the baby is played by twin babies,

617
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 3: as like children and babies often are in movies because

618
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 3: it's like they need a break, We'll swap out this

619
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 3: one for the other one. Yeah, but the babies are

620
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 3: twin girls named Kristen and Caitlyn Hooper. But Caitlyn spelled

621
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 3: the wrong way, so I can't forgive that.

622
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: So the baby with the little mustaches, that's adorable.

623
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:42,879
Speaker 4: Something that stood out to me. I mean, this movie

624
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 4: is doing so much cultural commentary. Obviously we're going to

625
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 4: spend a lot of time on the Thanksgiving play, but

626
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:49,720
Speaker 4: I just wanted to shout out a few other things

627
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 4: that popped out that I had to like put on

628
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety three goggles to understand. There's a few contemporary references.

629
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 4: There's obviously the Michael Jackson reference, which I had to do.

630
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,840
Speaker 4: I mean, like I had a feeling why it was included,

631
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 4: but I was like, well, like, where was that cultural

632
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 4: discourse at at the time, And it ended up being

633
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:20,280
Speaker 4: actually quite personal to the movie, specifically because Michael Jackson

634
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 4: was originally going to appear in this movie. Yeah I

635
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,959
Speaker 4: read that, and so yes, I'm pulling from scholarly journal

636
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 4: Wikipedia here. He was supposed to have a song in

637
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 4: the movie called family Thing. The song is rumored to

638
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 4: have been removed due to the child's sexual abuse allegations

639
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 4: against Jackson, but the truth is it was a contractual difference,

640
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 4: so we don't know if they would have included it.

641
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,760
Speaker 4: If they could have, it seems like they probably wouldn't

642
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 4: have because of the way he's referenced that Yeah, he's

643
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:52,879
Speaker 4: referenced like visually and Joel is terrified of him, which

644
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 4: I'm sure got a big laugh in nineteen ninety three.

645
00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 4: I personally don't like when they use his accurance to

646
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 4: like seem like that's the source of horror when it's

647
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 4: the act. Maybe just don't reference him at all. It

648
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 4: is my fat And then I felt the same way

649
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:15,359
Speaker 4: about the Amy Fisher reference, which is also so nineties

650
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 4: in a way that like in a movie that generally

651
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 4: is pushing back on popular narratives. I don't know. Listen

652
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 4: to the year wrang About episode about Amy Fisher. It's

653
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 4: like a classic mischaracterization of a teenager who is being groomed.

654
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,839
Speaker 4: So there was that. I also didn't know that the

655
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:40,800
Speaker 4: title is a reference to a dan Quail speech question

656
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 4: mark yeah, okay, also pulling from scholarly journal Wikipedia here.

657
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,160
Speaker 4: Of course, the family values in the film's title is

658
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 4: a tongue in cheek reference by the writer to a

659
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety two speech called Reflections on Urban America made

660
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 4: by then Vice presidential candidate Dan Quayle. In the speech,

661
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 4: Quail controversially blamed the nineteen ninety two Los Angeles riots

662
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 4: on a breakdown of quote unquote family values, which is,

663
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 4: you know, we don't need to tell you that's unbelievably racist.

664
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 4: But I just didn't realize that the title was pulling

665
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 4: from something. Yeah, both like very recent and very specific,

666
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,919
Speaker 4: and that is a culture reference that I'm like, yeah,

667
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 4: that's a fun fuck you uh to Dan Quayle.

668
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 3: Similarly, I would say that there are a couple jokes

669
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 3: in the movie that just feel quite reductive. Most of

670
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 3: the jokes in the movie are hilarious, and great, and

671
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 3: I have a list of my favorites, but there's for.

672
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 4: Nineteen ninety three is an accomplishment truly that more of

673
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 4: it agees well than doesn't.

674
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. There's a joke where like that implies that

675
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 3: Gomez infest jerk off to a pin up style nude

676
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 3: image of their mom and we're like, okay, insects and

677
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 3: miss art. Dang, yeah that's there. There's an there's a

678
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 3: joke that's judgy toward anyone who has had cosmetic surgery

679
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 3: that Wednesday makes the where it's like, oh, all the

680
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 3: girls woke up with their original noses and they're like, so,

681
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 3: she's like shamy of that. Christopher Lloyd is in a

682
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 3: fat suit to play Fester. So you know, there are

683
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 3: some things that don't age very well.

684
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: But as a person with an overbite, let me tell

685
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 1: you when oh, yeah that one your bathing suit, is

686
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: that your overboy brutal?

687
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess with the with the joke about nose jobs,

688
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,240
Speaker 4: I felt like that was, Yeah, that's cruel of Wednesday,

689
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,360
Speaker 4: But I felt that they were trying to get at

690
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 4: the waspiness of the girl she was talking to. It

691
00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 4: could have been a different joke.

692
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 3: That's thing, like she could have commented on her whatever

693
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 3: class privilege or something, didn't need to make a dig

694
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 3: at anyone's appearance. But she does that a couple of times.

695
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 4: She also tries to kill a baby. I mean problematic, problematically, yeah,

696
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 4: and then I mean, yeah, the big, the big discussion

697
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:23,720
Speaker 4: to have here is the I mean the summer camp

698
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 4: it itself and then the specific play that they put on.

699
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 3: But yeah, so overall, it's I think a pretty effective

700
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 3: satire of like American summer camp culture, where it's this

701
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 3: camp for like privileged children who you know are just

702
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 3: children with rich parents. Almost every child there is white.

703
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,359
Speaker 3: Almost all of them are blonde. Like you see shot

704
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 3: like wide shots of like forty kids, and they're all

705
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 3: just these blonde children. There's commentary on class and white

706
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 3: supremacy and how non native people and especially white people,

707
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:15,479
Speaker 3: appropriate indigenous cultures, treat Native people as a monolith, act

708
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 3: as though Native people don't exist anymore, that they're a

709
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 3: thing of the.

710
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 1: Past, completely make up the name, like say that the

711
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,280
Speaker 1: name of it, yes, scribe is because it's not orphan.

712
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 1: What happened was is that Chippewa is what the colonizers

713
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 1: heard when they said, oh, jibwa, and they thought, because

714
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 1: how you spell it? And I'm sure how you say it?

715
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,760
Speaker 1: Before there was like a written language for these words.

716
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 1: They were like, oh, chippewa instead of ojibwa or ojibwa.

717
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 1: That's what it is. It doesn't mean orphan. I forget

718
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 1: what it means. It means something. It means something very weird,

719
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 1: like if I recall correctly, but I forgot what it was.

720
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 1: I can look it up somewhere.

721
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 4: But racist brain cell to be shared among these colonizers.

722
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 4: It's just like sough. I was curious. I guess I

723
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:12,320
Speaker 4: was curious if either of you. I hadn't thought about

724
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 4: this in a long time, but I was talking about

725
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 4: this movie with my brother, and we grew up in Massachusetts,

726
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 4: where misrepresentation of Native history, I feel like, is particularly egregious,

727
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,800
Speaker 4: and we were talking about it wasn't a camp quite

728
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,399
Speaker 4: like this, but it's one of the or at least

729
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 4: at the time in the late nineties early two thousands,

730
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,399
Speaker 4: was a default field trip that you would take in

731
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 4: public schools to a place called Camp Squanto in Massachusetts.

732
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 4: And so I did a little bit of research into it,

733
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 4: because again, this seems like, it's a very like the

734
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 4: camp that the Atoms are going to is a rich

735
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 4: kid camp. This is a publicly owned camp that I

736
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:57,479
Speaker 4: think mostly boy Scouts use, but it has this very

737
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 4: racist history that it doesn't seem like unlike you know,

738
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 4: at very least there has been push back on the

739
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 4: way Plymouth Plantation, another field trip I had to go on,

740
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 4: is portrayed.

741
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 3: There hasn't really been any.

742
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 4: Motion on camps like this, but I just wanted to

743
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 4: talk about it a little bit because I do like

744
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 4: once my brother brought it up, I was like, oh,

745
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 4: I clearly remember going to Camp Squanto as a kid,

746
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 4: which is you know, Squanto is yet another like misrepresented name.

747
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 4: I looked into how the website portrays and I want

748
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 4: to make sure I'm saying his actual name correctly. It's

749
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 4: to Squantum, and he's He's a popular, falsely portrayed cultural

750
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 4: figure in Massachusetts.

751
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 3: I've learned about him all the time.

752
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 4: Growing up, and the narrative that is attributed to him

753
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 4: is that he was an indigenous person who helped the

754
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 4: pilgrims and who like you know, helped them understand how

755
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 4: the land worked. And he was presented as like helpful

756
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:07,359
Speaker 4: to colonizers and that that was a good thing. And

757
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:11,320
Speaker 4: that's why they named this weird camp after him, the Camp,

758
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 4: And it seems like a lot of similar camps like

759
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 4: it in New England. There's also a Camp Squanto in

760
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 4: New Hampshire that's even worse because it's an explicitly Christian camp,

761
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 4: which makes is what do you even say this that

762
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:34,359
Speaker 4: I was like, I was like, I don't want to

763
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:38,319
Speaker 4: bring these, but yeah, it's Camp Squanto invites campers to

764
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 4: experience the love of Christ outside of four walls in

765
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 4: a unique transforming environment. This is what wasn't the place

766
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 4: I went. It was a federally owned piece of land,

767
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 4: but nonetheless it is a piece of land that is

768
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 4: dedicated to teaching kids, most of whom are not native,

769
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 4: this false version of to Squantum. It opened in July

770
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:03,280
Speaker 4: nineteen twenty five, so it wasn't even originally integrated. Obviously

771
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 4: by the time I went, it was. But it was

772
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 4: a camp for white kids all over Massachusetts to learn

773
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 4: a false version of history. And to this day it

774
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 4: is very popular. It is still where boy Scouts will

775
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 4: go and camp year round. And I guess I just

776
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 4: I don't know I hadn't really connected that. Even though

777
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 4: it's not the exact same kind of camp, it has

778
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:33,280
Speaker 4: a similar mission, which is just mis education and misrepresentation

779
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 4: of history to serve the American project. So that's unfortunately,

780
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 4: Camp Squanto in this.

781
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 3: Movie seems very aware of all these types of camps

782
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 3: that are all over Turtle Island and is satirizing them

783
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 3: by way of this play that goes a little differently

784
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:03,320
Speaker 3: than the camp directors are expecting. So yeah, Ali, we're

785
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:06,959
Speaker 3: curious on your take on this.

786
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:12,240
Speaker 1: Well, Okay, first of all, I remember that ojiboy, the

787
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 1: word is like kind of in reference to this is

788
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 1: so silly, Like puckered up is more or less because

789
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 1: the way we wear they would wear our moccasins is like,

790
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: I don't know, the moccasins have like puckered scenes or

791
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,400
Speaker 1: something like that. So it's like, oh, puckered up or something.

792
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 1: So that's kind of what ojibwe means. But obviously Ani

793
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 1: schnabe would be more correct, you know. Anyways, it doesn't

794
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 1: mean orphan, it means puckered up. God, I wish it

795
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:49,799
Speaker 1: didn't sound so dirty the Thanksgiving scene. So I, like

796
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 1: I said, I did a video about this on YouTube.

797
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 1: And the thing that I really loved the most about

798
00:48:56,719 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: this scene was, you know, first of all, came out

799
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 1: like I don't know, a year or so before Disney's

800
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 1: Pocahontas came out, so before you know, like obviously, the

801
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 1: story of Pocahontas has been told for you know, since

802
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 1: the sixteen hundreds. People have like a vague, very whitewashed

803
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: understanding of that story anyways, so it's familiar, and then

804
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 1: Disney just made it worse. But it's just so interesting

805
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:32,959
Speaker 1: that this movie is so honest about the lie of

806
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:36,959
Speaker 1: not just not just Pocahontas. You know, they don't really

807
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:41,359
Speaker 1: dive into that story. It's just, oh, this is a

808
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 1: play about Indians, and Pocahontas is an Indian, so let's

809
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 1: just you know, throw her in there to make what

810
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 1: stay uncomfortable. But just how honest it is about the

811
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:56,319
Speaker 1: lie of thanksgiving, and not only the lie of Thanksgiving

812
00:49:56,520 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 1: that we tell our you know, the nation to children,

813
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 1: but how the other parents in the audience very clearly

814
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 1: are racist against Native people. And that's something that really

815
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 1: stood out to me when I was little, you know,

816
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 1: I saw this movie probably when I was like four.

817
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 1: I want to say, three or four. And I understood,

818
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 1: you know, at a very young age, just from like

819
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 1: what my parents taught me, and then later when I

820
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 1: would like go to school and stuff and interact with

821
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:31,280
Speaker 1: people who had never seen a Native person, like until

822
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 1: my dad. My dad was probably the first, if not

823
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 1: the only Native person that a lot of the white

824
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:42,360
Speaker 1: kids in my schools ever saw, you know, so probably

825
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,919
Speaker 1: one of the very very few that the teachers had

826
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 1: to like interact with. Also. So it's like I understood

827
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: at a very young age that there are adults and

828
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: parents and teachers that are lying about what happened to

829
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 1: the Native Americans, not just at Thanksgiving or even with pokehonnas,

830
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 1: but throughout history. I realized that teachers will lie about this,

831
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,800
Speaker 1: like they'll even probably even know the story and still

832
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 1: lie about it just because you know, it's a prettier version,

833
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:18,439
Speaker 1: it's a more flattering version.

834
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 3: It's more quote unquote appropriate for children, and it's who's children.

835
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 4: I've I got into an argument about this with one

836
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:30,839
Speaker 4: of my mom's co workers years ago, who teaches at

837
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:36,839
Speaker 4: an elementary school, and it was like this looping thing

838
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 4: of I was like, well, but you know that's not true.

839
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 4: And you know, she was like, well, but that's how

840
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 4: are you supposed to explain that to children? I was like,

841
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:46,399
Speaker 4: figure it out.

842
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's not true your job as an educator.

843
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 4: But it was this idea of like, well, it's a

844
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 4: tradition to tell this lie, and like she really felt that,

845
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 4: and it's it's I think that there are a lot

846
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 4: of people out there who still really don't want to

847
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 4: face their own discomfort of having to explain this.

848
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 1: No, not at all. But yeah, it's just like how

849
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 1: the movie really just called that out, especially like in

850
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 1: the early nineties, Like people have difficulty calling it out now,

851
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 1: let alone, you know, back when I was three years old,

852
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 1: so Wednesday not giving them an inch. It's like I

853
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 1: like to think that she just sat in that cabin

854
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:30,400
Speaker 1: and watched all those movies and just was like, oh,

855
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:34,800
Speaker 1: I'm plotting how to get back at all of you

856
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:38,719
Speaker 1: just orchestrated all of this. I will say though, that

857
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 1: the scene, as amazing as it is, it's still pretty problematic.

858
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:49,359
Speaker 1: Y like context matters, but racial stereotypes are still racial stereotypes.

859
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 1: If you look at the Native the kids that are

860
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:56,240
Speaker 1: dressed up like natives, A lot of them have really

861
00:52:56,440 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 1: darkened skin. I point that out in the video. I

862
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 1: was like, Wow, they really just like dark in this

863
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 1: kid's skin for the play. And it's racist. I mean,

864
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:08,840
Speaker 1: the whole play is racist.

865
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:13,640
Speaker 3: But right, it's tricky because yeah, the like, of course,

866
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 3: these racist camp directors would put these children in brown face.

867
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 3: They would like cast and it's not even predominantly white people.

868
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:26,279
Speaker 3: Because another thing with that is that the campers who

869
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 3: are cast to play native characters are like the quote

870
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:36,239
Speaker 3: unquote outcasts in the camp. Like there's a disabled child

871
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,400
Speaker 3: who's Jewish, there's a kid who is fat, there's an

872
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 3: Asian kid, there's a Latina kid, there's a black kid,

873
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 3: a nerdy kid, like all the quote unquote outcasts who

874
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 3: are not these like blonde children.

875
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 4: Like descendants are pilgrims.

876
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:54,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, and that's that is like a commentary of like,

877
00:53:55,160 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 3: of course, these horrible camp directors would put children who

878
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 3: who have been othered by society, you know, cast them

879
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 3: in the role as the native characters in the play.

880
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:11,319
Speaker 3: But the movie also others those children and again it's like, yes,

881
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:15,160
Speaker 3: of course, these horrible camp directors would put those children

882
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 3: in brown face.

883
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,319
Speaker 4: But like the viv isn't doing a ton to push

884
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,280
Speaker 4: push back to be like, let's get to know these kids.

885
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we get more time with how terrible the

886
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,400
Speaker 1: white kids are than we are with you know, how

887
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 1: cool these kids are. Actually, like Wednesday should have been

888
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:32,720
Speaker 1: with them more.

889
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, why doesn't she befriend like Jamal and Consuela

890
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:41,239
Speaker 3: and the other children who she has been outcast with,

891
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 3: right like and find community with them anyway.

892
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:47,520
Speaker 4: So it's not really her thing, Wednesday.

893
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:48,879
Speaker 3: That is true. That's true.

894
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:51,839
Speaker 4: But even Pugsly, I mean Pugsly, who I do kind

895
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:54,280
Speaker 4: of like that. It's cannon to the Adams family universe,

896
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 4: that Pugsy. You know, we can kind of take or

897
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:59,800
Speaker 4: leave him. Yeah, you know, he's in a couple of scenes,

898
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 4: but but he's not putting butts in seats. You know,

899
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:06,799
Speaker 4: he seems like a sweet kid. I like his his

900
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:12,719
Speaker 4: performance as the turkey was very funny me. I mean,

901
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 4: even down to the like lyrics that they're writing. I

902
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:20,359
Speaker 4: mean it is like it is really really sharp commentary

903
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 4: writing display from this like horrendous couple's perspective.

904
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:29,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are a lot of Native people who like

905
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 1: the scene, and there's a lot of Native people who don't,

906
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 1: and that's I think that's valid. Like I would never

907
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 1: argue with a Native person about not liking this scene because,

908
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 1: you know, like I said, it's you still have kids

909
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:50,239
Speaker 1: in brown face and culturally appropriating costumes. The dialogue is

910
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:53,759
Speaker 1: very racist too, you know, like it's you know, like

911
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:58,480
Speaker 1: racial stereotypes are stereotypes and they're harmful, so you know,

912
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 1: like ironic racism can still racism. That being said, if

913
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:06,799
Speaker 1: I have to choose between two false accounts of the

914
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 1: Pocahonta story, I'm going with this one because it was

915
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:15,439
Speaker 1: very very cathartic for me, you know, at that time

916
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:18,400
Speaker 1: in my life, and still kind of I mean, Donald

917
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 1: Trump is using Pocahontas as a slur to this day,

918
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:28,840
Speaker 1: and with recent hate crimes committed against Indigenous actors like

919
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:34,320
Speaker 1: Jonathan Joss, I would see that. Yeah, it still holds

920
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 1: up in some places, even if it doesn't in others, right,

921
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 1: I mean.

922
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 3: This is one of the few pieces of mainstream Hollywood

923
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 3: media from this era that even acknowledged European settler colonialism

924
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 3: and stolen land and modern Native people living in poverty

925
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 3: on reservations as a result of colonialism and displacement and

926
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 3: so like, I'll give the movie that, but like you said,

927
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 3: there are things that ways in which the movie doesn't

928
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:09,319
Speaker 3: handle this perfectly. For example, I mean, the whole thing

929
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:13,960
Speaker 3: still centers whiteness. There are no Native characters present on

930
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 3: screen to offer their perspectives or experiences. I feel like

931
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 3: there are things that the play gets wrong that the

932
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 3: movie could have easily acknowledged if it's something that like

933
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 3: Wednesday includes in her monologue, or again, if the movie

934
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 3: included one or more Native characters who could set the

935
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 3: record straight.

936
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 4: But again, one of the many things that I like,

937
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:43,640
Speaker 4: something that would have fit pretty seamlessly into Wednesday's monologue

938
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:47,959
Speaker 4: is acknowledging how racist their costuming is. Like that would

939
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:54,240
Speaker 4: have been at least a step toward not seeming as

940
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 4: if the movie is just endorsing like any facet of that.

941
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 3: But that doesn't.

942
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:02,760
Speaker 4: I mean, it's I feel like it's almost kind of

943
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 4: like leaned into versus resisted, which isn't true of a

944
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 4: lot of elements in that speech.

945
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, she could have acknowledged the costuming, the brown face,

946
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 3: the fact that Pocahontas was not a quote unquote Chippewa maiden,

947
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 3: as she says in her dialogue.

948
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, as you say in your video, very funny and repeatedly, Ali,

949
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:29,280
Speaker 4: she's nine.

950
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 3: She is nine, Yes, yeah, she's a small child. Pocahontas

951
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 3: was not involved in the first Thanksgiving, neither was the

952
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 3: Ojibwe nation. It's just all these like again, the movie

953
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 3: is commenting on how these racist white camp directors have

954
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 3: created this and are perpetuating this very false version of

955
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 3: the narrative. But for the people in the nineties watching this,

956
00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 3: and even people today watching this, many of them don't

957
00:58:59,880 --> 00:59:03,200
Speaker 3: know any better. They don't know that the quote unquote

958
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:08,000
Speaker 3: facts presented by this play are completely incorrect, and the

959
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 3: movie doesn't say, hey, all these details that you see

960
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 3: here in the play are wrong. Again, it would have

961
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:16,960
Speaker 3: been easy for Wednesday to be like and by the way,

962
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:18,880
Speaker 3: this this and this, or it would have been easy

963
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 3: for a native character to be written into the movie

964
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:26,400
Speaker 3: to say here's the actual thing. But the movie again

965
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 3: just glosses all over that. But but it is very

966
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 3: cathartic to watch this set burned down and for Sarah Miller,

967
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 3: the pilgrim girl, to be tied up and burned at

968
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 3: the stake question mark.

969
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:40,439
Speaker 4: That's great.

970
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:44,760
Speaker 1: So I think something that like in the hands of

971
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 1: a responsible writer. Something that could have helped the scene

972
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 1: would be if there was an actual Native person at

973
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:58,919
Speaker 1: the camp. Obviously you walk on thin ice with that one,

974
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:03,080
Speaker 1: like isn't a person attending the camp, And if it's

975
01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 1: a rich like city Indian, you know, or you run

976
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:10,880
Speaker 1: the risk of like you know, stereotypes anyways, but how

977
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 1: they treat a rich Indian is still very racist, you know,

978
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 1: when you're surrounded by rich white children or like maybe

979
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:24,960
Speaker 1: there's a camp director or something like that that's like, oh,

980
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 1: we're gonna teach you, you know, take you on a

981
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:31,440
Speaker 1: trail or take you horseback riding, and the kids are like,

982
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 1: you know, because the other thing is, you know, you

983
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:36,480
Speaker 1: don't really want an excuse, like you don't want a

984
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 1: Native person there specifically so people can be racist to them, right,

985
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 1: But like if someone was there, like I don't know,

986
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:48,840
Speaker 1: the image in my head when I imagine how the scene

987
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:51,040
Speaker 1: probably could have been a little bit better, would be

988
01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 1: like a Native person watching this all unfold and just

989
01:00:56,160 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 1: like nodding and smiling and just watching it like, oh, okay,

990
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:04,480
Speaker 1: you know about it all. I don't remember this version

991
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:06,920
Speaker 1: of the Thanksgiving story, but it's a lot better than

992
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:10,480
Speaker 1: the ones they've been telling for the past like three

993
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:12,520
Speaker 1: hundred years.

994
01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:16,320
Speaker 4: The other thing that I know we've like touched on it,

995
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:19,400
Speaker 4: but again, one of the things that I don't think

996
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 4: I would have seen in other movies is the acknowledgment

997
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:27,360
Speaker 4: that Native people still exist. Like, I think that was

998
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:30,960
Speaker 4: something that I was I feel like, I mean, I

999
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 4: didn't grow up around any Native kids. I grew up

1000
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:36,400
Speaker 4: in a very diversity, but we didn't have a large

1001
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:39,960
Speaker 4: Native population at all. And I feel like, even if

1002
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:43,440
Speaker 4: it wasn't explicitly said to me that you're sort of

1003
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 4: taught that Native people don't exist anymore. And so that Wednesday,

1004
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:50,680
Speaker 4: even in like it could have been a more detailed

1005
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 4: line of dialogue, but acknowledged that of course Native people

1006
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:58,760
Speaker 4: still exist and they're extremely oppressed to this day, Like

1007
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:02,920
Speaker 4: is really impactful for it, you know, kids in the

1008
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 4: audience who just have not been taught that whatsoever. Yeah.

1009
01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:09,480
Speaker 4: I had a long talk with my brother about this

1010
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:11,680
Speaker 4: because I was like, we didn't like, I just to

1011
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 4: verify how miseducated we really were. And yeah, I mean

1012
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:18,440
Speaker 4: it's just again it's like a couple lines of dialogue,

1013
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:21,440
Speaker 4: but it's I'm very glad it's there.

1014
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:24,120
Speaker 1: One of my nieces. And this was back I want

1015
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 1: to say, like two thousand. Let's see, I graduated high

1016
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 1: school in two thousand and eight, so it must have

1017
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:35,200
Speaker 1: been two thousand and five era, I want to say.

1018
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:39,920
Speaker 1: But the kids in her classroom, so she was probably

1019
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:44,080
Speaker 1: like in sixth or seventh grade. The kids in her

1020
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:48,400
Speaker 1: classroom didn't think Native people were real. My god, They're like,

1021
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 1: why are we learning about this? This didn't even happen.

1022
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 1: I was like, what are you talking about? They're like,

1023
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 1: Indians aren't real. And I'm like, excuse.

1024
01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:58,680
Speaker 3: Me, Hi, nice to meet you.

1025
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 1: Like what the fuck is going on at our public schools?

1026
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:05,840
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, oh my gosh. And it's only gotten

1027
01:03:06,640 --> 01:03:10,000
Speaker 1: gotten somewhat better and gotten somewhat worse because just recently,

1028
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:14,400
Speaker 1: actually I was helping my nephew with his homework and uh,

1029
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:18,560
Speaker 1: Sitting Bull was addressed Chief Sitting Bull, and they talked

1030
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:21,840
Speaker 1: a little bit about the battle a little big horn,

1031
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:24,919
Speaker 1: just what it was, and you know that Sitting Bull

1032
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 1: was there. Then they followed it up like the next

1033
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:31,360
Speaker 1: page was about Golden Mirror. I think it's how you

1034
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:34,440
Speaker 1: say it. Who was the fourth prime Minister of Israel

1035
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 1: oh and asked how was Goldenmeir and Sitting Bull alike?

1036
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:45,360
Speaker 1: And I was like, excuse me, oh my god. Yeah,

1037
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 1: I was like, first of all, we never even learned

1038
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:51,760
Speaker 1: about Israel like at all through my K through twelve education,

1039
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:55,120
Speaker 1: like saying, none of it, not at all. I don't

1040
01:03:55,120 --> 01:03:58,040
Speaker 1: even think we learned about Sitting Bull in my K

1041
01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:00,720
Speaker 1: through twelve. You know, I think I learned about that

1042
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:03,880
Speaker 1: like on my own, just because of who my family is.

1043
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 1: And it's like, so the one time you're bringing up

1044
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:12,800
Speaker 1: Israel and Sitting Bull is to compare those two. And

1045
01:04:13,040 --> 01:04:17,280
Speaker 1: I wrote a very very angry email to my nephew's principle,

1046
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 1: So yeah, it.

1047
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:24,080
Speaker 4: Shouldn't fault you. But I'm oh glad that people are

1048
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:27,240
Speaker 4: keeping their eyes piled for it, because that's that's absurd.

1049
01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:32,280
Speaker 3: Like it goes without saying that Israel is the pilgrims,

1050
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:37,720
Speaker 3: is the colonizers decimating an entire indigenous population.

1051
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:41,960
Speaker 1: And I was very much like, listen, if this woman

1052
01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:45,000
Speaker 1: was anything like Sitting Bull, the United States would not

1053
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:47,920
Speaker 1: be backing Israel, just so you.

1054
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:52,280
Speaker 4: Know, like, yeah, they are the colonizers, it's their whole

1055
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:56,000
Speaker 4: fucking thing. I mean it is it yeah again, And

1056
01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:58,480
Speaker 4: it's like it's tricky because I think we've had this

1057
01:04:58,520 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 4: conversation on the show before. It's it is like one

1058
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:05,440
Speaker 4: movie is not going to be able to make up

1059
01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:10,960
Speaker 4: for years of miseducation, but it can help. And this

1060
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:16,640
Speaker 4: is a scene that I think is an example of that. Yeah,

1061
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:20,600
Speaker 4: I have for I have a whole section. I need to,

1062
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:23,440
Speaker 4: I think, process this whole Camp Squanta thing because I'm

1063
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:27,400
Speaker 4: still thinking so much about that, Like I double checked

1064
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 4: current stuff hanging at the camp just to see him,

1065
01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:33,800
Speaker 4: Like has the messaging changed at all? It hasn't, and

1066
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:36,760
Speaker 4: you know it instead of being presented as oh, the

1067
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:43,080
Speaker 4: translator for the pilgrims in Plymouth, where the truth, of

1068
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:46,600
Speaker 4: course is far more complicated and horrific, is that he

1069
01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 4: was overseas and returned to North America and his entire

1070
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:55,600
Speaker 4: village was gone and it'd been replaced with Plymouth Plantation.

1071
01:05:56,640 --> 01:06:00,520
Speaker 4: And that is certainly not acknowledged within the walls of

1072
01:06:00,520 --> 01:06:04,160
Speaker 4: Campsquanto because that doesn't feel good to hear. And I

1073
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:07,080
Speaker 4: feel like that is a lot of what is satirized

1074
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:12,560
Speaker 4: in this Christine Baranski and other guy Gary Couple here

1075
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:15,240
Speaker 4: is like they are in a way that like I

1076
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 4: think is like written pretty well of like they are

1077
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 4: so determined to appropriate the hell and misrepresent the hell

1078
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:25,280
Speaker 4: out of any aspect of Native culture that they can

1079
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:28,720
Speaker 4: accept the parts that don't feel good to hear. And

1080
01:06:28,760 --> 01:06:32,480
Speaker 4: that is there's that great line that I think they

1081
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:38,080
Speaker 4: kind of split about privilege. What is it privileged young

1082
01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:40,800
Speaker 4: adults and we're all here to learn, to grow and

1083
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:43,840
Speaker 4: to just have plain fun because that's what being privileged

1084
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:47,680
Speaker 4: is all about. And like doing that in the context

1085
01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 4: of misrepresenting and stealing Native culture for their own purposes

1086
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:56,400
Speaker 4: unfortunately completely tracks. And I do appreciate that the movie,

1087
01:06:56,600 --> 01:07:00,520
Speaker 4: for its faults, does seem to know that. I also like,

1088
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:04,080
Speaker 4: did they know that Pocahontas was in production when this

1089
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:06,960
Speaker 4: was made? Because they have they have it out for

1090
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:07,919
Speaker 4: Disney in this one.

1091
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:14,720
Speaker 5: It's very satisfying, maybe because I remember, I guess around

1092
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:18,800
Speaker 5: that time, like because Pocahontas and The Lion King were

1093
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:20,360
Speaker 5: both being animated at the.

1094
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:25,200
Speaker 1: Same time, and Disney wanted that Oscar Gold and thought that, oh,

1095
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:27,600
Speaker 1: we'll get it with Pocahontas this time and make it

1096
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 1: edgy an adult, you know.

1097
01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:31,080
Speaker 3: Make her sexy.

1098
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:38,280
Speaker 1: The gross, so gross nine nine, she was nine.

1099
01:07:39,520 --> 01:07:39,880
Speaker 3: I did.

1100
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:43,040
Speaker 4: I did. Like the the other aspect of the like

1101
01:07:43,640 --> 01:07:46,760
Speaker 4: the camp being that if you disagree with them, they

1102
01:07:46,760 --> 01:07:50,720
Speaker 4: will try to basically clockwork orange you by making you

1103
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:54,880
Speaker 4: watch The Little Mermaid a trillion times, and that Wednesday,

1104
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:56,840
Speaker 4: Wednesday is stronger.

1105
01:07:57,920 --> 01:08:01,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, like you said, Ellie, she's you can imagine, she's

1106
01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:06,080
Speaker 3: just like sitting there as like Ariels singing part of

1107
01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:09,080
Speaker 3: this world or whatever, just like plotting. Like yes, I

1108
01:08:09,120 --> 01:08:11,480
Speaker 3: will pretend to agree to be in the play so

1109
01:08:11,520 --> 01:08:16,439
Speaker 3: that I can, you know, derail the play and give

1110
01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:22,320
Speaker 3: this monologue. I read a couple pieces by Native writers,

1111
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:27,679
Speaker 3: one by Sasha la Point in huff Post in twenty

1112
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:32,720
Speaker 3: twenty entitled as an Indigenous woman, I always hate Thanksgiving

1113
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:36,320
Speaker 3: This year, I'm terrified of it in reference to people

1114
01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:40,880
Speaker 3: gathering a few months after COVID broke out, and then

1115
01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:44,440
Speaker 3: the other piece I read is by author Alyssa Washuota

1116
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:50,320
Speaker 3: in twenty seventeen in a publication called Electric Lit, entitled Wednesday,

1117
01:08:50,320 --> 01:08:54,360
Speaker 3: Adams is just another Settler. In both pieces, the writers

1118
01:08:54,360 --> 01:08:59,040
Speaker 3: discuss their relationship to Thanksgiving and their relationship to this

1119
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:05,400
Speaker 3: scene in Adam's family values, how they celebrated and or

1120
01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:09,439
Speaker 3: connected to the scene in their youth, but both say

1121
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:13,599
Speaker 3: that like it's not enough. Though of course, white people

1122
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:17,960
Speaker 3: like Wednesday Adams are still sellers on stolen Land. Liberation

1123
01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:20,960
Speaker 3: isn't going to happen via sharing this clip from the

1124
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:25,160
Speaker 3: movie on social media on Thanksgiving, solidarity and allyship from

1125
01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:28,160
Speaker 3: white people has to be a lot more meaningful and impactful,

1126
01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:32,960
Speaker 3: and both pieces are definitely worth reading. We'll provide the

1127
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:34,559
Speaker 3: links to those.

1128
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:37,519
Speaker 1: But that makes me happy to hear though I know

1129
01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:39,920
Speaker 1: that you know, both of those were released, you know,

1130
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:44,280
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, but especially how relevant it is,

1131
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:47,640
Speaker 1: Like again, going back to Jonathan Joss, it's you know,

1132
01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:52,000
Speaker 1: his husband has been very vocal saying, you know, like

1133
01:09:52,400 --> 01:09:56,320
Speaker 1: please keep putting pressure on the fact that this was

1134
01:09:56,360 --> 01:10:01,920
Speaker 1: a hate crime against gay indigenous man, you know, put

1135
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:07,360
Speaker 1: pressure on the police. And surprisingly every new piece of

1136
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:10,920
Speaker 1: information about Jonathan Joss is worse than the last, and

1137
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:14,519
Speaker 1: it's been very traumatizing, like just this past week, you

1138
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:22,280
Speaker 1: know alone. But I really appreciate how much this man

1139
01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:26,760
Speaker 1: was loved by so many people, because it sounds like

1140
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:31,440
Speaker 1: the police, the San Antonio Police Department was severely underestimated

1141
01:10:31,479 --> 01:10:34,960
Speaker 1: how much people would have cared about this, like oh

1142
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:37,840
Speaker 1: it's another gay guy. Oh it's another dead Indian and

1143
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:43,760
Speaker 1: everyone's like, oh no, actually absolutely not. We're not just

1144
01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:49,320
Speaker 1: gonna gloss over this murder that happened, you know, And

1145
01:10:50,439 --> 01:10:53,800
Speaker 1: again like that's another example of using your solidarity, not

1146
01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:57,080
Speaker 1: just sharing, you know, a very cathartic, awesome clip from

1147
01:10:57,120 --> 01:11:01,000
Speaker 1: your favorite movie, but being like this is their phone number,

1148
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:03,479
Speaker 1: this is who you can call, this is you know,

1149
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:06,760
Speaker 1: post on social media, send money to the GoFundMe. I

1150
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:10,080
Speaker 1: heard that the husband doesn't want any more GoFundMe donations,

1151
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:13,559
Speaker 1: but you know, using your platform, which I hope that

1152
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:17,439
Speaker 1: the Parks and Rec and King of the Hill people

1153
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:20,639
Speaker 1: will step up and put a little bit more pressure

1154
01:11:20,680 --> 01:11:24,120
Speaker 1: on it with their platforms. But we'll see, because I

1155
01:11:24,160 --> 01:11:27,839
Speaker 1: saw how they treated them at that panel, so hopefully

1156
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:29,080
Speaker 1: Park Rec does better.

1157
01:11:29,400 --> 01:11:32,800
Speaker 4: I've been so disappointed to see how I mean, not

1158
01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:35,880
Speaker 4: that we expect anything from Chris Pratt, but Chris Pratt,

1159
01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:38,440
Speaker 4: I think, is the only person who is like acknowledged

1160
01:11:38,439 --> 01:11:41,000
Speaker 4: it in a public way, in a half assed, useless way,

1161
01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:45,800
Speaker 4: and all of the acknowledgments that he isn't here don't

1162
01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:49,000
Speaker 4: acknowledge the fact that he was murdered. It's just very

1163
01:11:49,160 --> 01:11:52,839
Speaker 4: like I read I was reading through just public statements

1164
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:55,400
Speaker 4: made for the most part, it's like you would think

1165
01:11:55,439 --> 01:11:57,280
Speaker 4: he died in his sleep, you.

1166
01:11:57,200 --> 01:11:59,760
Speaker 3: Know, like you just it's disgusting.

1167
01:12:00,040 --> 01:12:05,360
Speaker 4: Especially I'm like Amy Poehlard couldn't have a huger platform, why,

1168
01:12:05,479 --> 01:12:05,680
Speaker 4: you know.

1169
01:12:06,160 --> 01:12:08,080
Speaker 3: I hope she steps up. I hope they all do.

1170
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:11,680
Speaker 1: So if you love this scene and Adam's family values,

1171
01:12:12,280 --> 01:12:15,000
Speaker 1: do something awesome this year for Pride and step up

1172
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:19,320
Speaker 1: for Jonathan Jass. So yeah, anyways.

1173
01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:20,840
Speaker 3: I mean, honestly, I don't have that much else to

1174
01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:24,920
Speaker 3: talk about with this movie, especially stuff that we didn't

1175
01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:29,080
Speaker 3: also cover on our first episode. Yes, about the first movie,

1176
01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:30,320
Speaker 3: Corny Parents Rock.

1177
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:32,400
Speaker 4: You know, we talked you could go back to our

1178
01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:34,280
Speaker 4: first episode to talk about the ways that the Added

1179
01:12:34,439 --> 01:12:38,400
Speaker 4: Family subverts all of these you know, Hollywood tropes in

1180
01:12:38,439 --> 01:12:40,120
Speaker 4: this really delightful way. I did want to talk a

1181
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:44,400
Speaker 4: little bit about Debbie, because this is our first rodio

1182
01:12:44,479 --> 01:12:47,680
Speaker 4: with Debbie and unfortunately our last. I would love to

1183
01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:50,880
Speaker 4: see word Debbie. I think she's a pretty cool, like

1184
01:12:51,200 --> 01:12:56,840
Speaker 4: satirical character as well, where she is this like extremely entitled,

1185
01:12:57,640 --> 01:13:01,479
Speaker 4: you know, wasp by murderer. It's an interesting idea for

1186
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:05,360
Speaker 4: a character. Yeah, and she's just she's killing guys. She's

1187
01:13:05,439 --> 01:13:09,000
Speaker 4: just she's just walking around killing killing rich guys, and.

1188
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:13,240
Speaker 3: She's manipulating them, she's doming them, she's making them get makeovers,

1189
01:13:14,280 --> 01:13:19,000
Speaker 3: stealing from them, murdering them. It's honestly iconic.

1190
01:13:19,600 --> 01:13:23,680
Speaker 1: I like that she's very feminine and very pretty and

1191
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:30,000
Speaker 1: where's you know, like white Sellstels, but is also very

1192
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:35,439
Speaker 1: dark and very like unhinged and very angry. It's a

1193
01:13:35,439 --> 01:13:39,320
Speaker 1: great character. It's like girl you and more should have

1194
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:44,200
Speaker 1: just hooked up and Orkard Gomez lovingly because he would

1195
01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:44,840
Speaker 1: have loved it.

1196
01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:48,360
Speaker 3: And yes, the thing could be there, you know whatever.

1197
01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:51,800
Speaker 4: I like that they don't try to like I don't know, well,

1198
01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:54,240
Speaker 4: they do justify her actions quote unquote where they give

1199
01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:57,160
Speaker 4: her like villain origin story, but it's so silly. It's

1200
01:13:57,160 --> 01:14:00,439
Speaker 4: the ballet bou barbie thing where Yeah, I think a

1201
01:14:00,479 --> 01:14:02,160
Speaker 4: lot of times we get I mean I think I

1202
01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:04,639
Speaker 4: complain about this all the time, and especially more recent

1203
01:14:04,680 --> 01:14:10,000
Speaker 4: Disney movies, where the villainous behavior is contextualized through like

1204
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:14,400
Speaker 4: you know, something that almost feels like it's excusing the behavior.

1205
01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:14,879
Speaker 3: Itself.

1206
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:18,800
Speaker 4: They're like, well, yeah, as tough childhood. So that's why

1207
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:20,720
Speaker 4: he killed all those people, you know, like.

1208
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:23,519
Speaker 3: And that's why they deserve a redemption.

1209
01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:27,640
Speaker 4: Right, right, And Debbie Jelinsky couldn't get less of a

1210
01:14:28,120 --> 01:14:33,320
Speaker 4: redemption arc if she tried. She dies like several times,

1211
01:14:34,040 --> 01:14:37,840
Speaker 4: and that, you know, her villain origin story is ridiculous.

1212
01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:41,600
Speaker 4: It's like she's just like, I think whatever, this representation

1213
01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:45,160
Speaker 4: of someone who is just like absolutely a selfish consumer

1214
01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:50,520
Speaker 4: to her bones, literally her bones, because she's crevated.

1215
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:57,400
Speaker 1: I also love that Debbie's evilness isn't tied to oh

1216
01:14:57,439 --> 01:15:01,719
Speaker 1: I hate this other woman for being pretty or something,

1217
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:05,520
Speaker 1: you know, like she doesn't really like. She and Mortitia

1218
01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:08,519
Speaker 1: are on opposite ends of the spectrum, but I wouldn't

1219
01:15:08,520 --> 01:15:12,439
Speaker 1: say that, you know, they're at odds as far as

1220
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:15,439
Speaker 1: you know, oh she's prettier and oh she's got more money,

1221
01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:18,280
Speaker 1: you know, which would have been super boring.

1222
01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:19,240
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1223
01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:22,280
Speaker 1: I love Martitia also is in you know, like I'm

1224
01:15:22,320 --> 01:15:24,880
Speaker 1: not like other girls like and response to it. It's

1225
01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:28,800
Speaker 1: just fucking beneath her and for her killing all of

1226
01:15:28,840 --> 01:15:32,320
Speaker 1: these dudes. I never got like this faux feminist vibe

1227
01:15:32,320 --> 01:15:34,320
Speaker 1: from it, you know, like, especially in the nineties where

1228
01:15:34,360 --> 01:15:37,679
Speaker 1: it's like feminism is man hating and blah blah blah.

1229
01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:38,760
Speaker 3: You know, Yeah, she.

1230
01:15:39,080 --> 01:15:45,519
Speaker 1: Just wants money, which valid don't get married, just get cash.

1231
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:48,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's doing a series of neutral acts. I think

1232
01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:53,360
Speaker 4: she I Yeah, I like jumping off that point. I

1233
01:15:53,400 --> 01:15:57,960
Speaker 4: think if Debbie was the only woman we met in

1234
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:00,719
Speaker 4: this movie, I would have some issue with it because

1235
01:16:00,720 --> 01:16:02,639
Speaker 4: it's like, if you only get to know one woman

1236
01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:07,880
Speaker 4: and she's extremely selfish and horrible and evil, you know,

1237
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:10,080
Speaker 4: that's something to talk about. But we get such a

1238
01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:14,280
Speaker 4: range of types of women, especially in the Adams family,

1239
01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:18,160
Speaker 4: like Martitia. Yeah, I love that. Martitia's like, I respect

1240
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:22,720
Speaker 4: what you're doing, but you look tacky doing it. Wednesday. Uh,

1241
01:16:23,080 --> 01:16:26,800
Speaker 4: I mean you have you even have a range of

1242
01:16:27,160 --> 01:16:30,920
Speaker 4: types of horrible waspy white lady. Debbie Jolinsky and Christine

1243
01:16:30,920 --> 01:16:35,360
Speaker 4: Baranski's character are different flavors of terrible person and I

1244
01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:37,599
Speaker 4: think Christine Baranski's far worse.

1245
01:16:38,680 --> 01:16:41,800
Speaker 3: Yes, and then you've got the Amanda the little rich

1246
01:16:41,880 --> 01:16:45,479
Speaker 3: girl character. Yes, another brand of that.

1247
01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:48,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's I guess maybe it's because we were recovering

1248
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:51,920
Speaker 4: camp Rock too, but I was like, the it's such

1249
01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:55,719
Speaker 4: a it's such a stock character, like the bitchy blonde

1250
01:16:55,760 --> 01:16:56,880
Speaker 4: girl at camp.

1251
01:16:57,160 --> 01:17:01,400
Speaker 1: And she probably wouldn't have been the bad if it

1252
01:17:01,439 --> 01:17:06,200
Speaker 1: wasn't an Adam's Family movie. But what was interesting to

1253
01:17:06,280 --> 01:17:09,960
Speaker 1: me about Amanda's character was like, this is very clearly

1254
01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:15,479
Speaker 1: a child repeating the things that her parents and her

1255
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:19,960
Speaker 1: teachers were telling her. You know. She like, if you

1256
01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:22,680
Speaker 1: don't know, you don't know, and you only know what

1257
01:17:22,960 --> 01:17:26,360
Speaker 1: the adults around you are telling you or not telling you.

1258
01:17:27,160 --> 01:17:31,439
Speaker 1: And adults weaponize this all the time, you know, because

1259
01:17:31,479 --> 01:17:34,680
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, well, you can't get mad and you

1260
01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:37,720
Speaker 1: can't say anything because it's a child, you know, Like,

1261
01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:39,600
Speaker 1: what are you going to do? Bully a kid for

1262
01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:43,519
Speaker 1: being racist? They don't know any better, and uh have.

1263
01:17:43,479 --> 01:17:45,040
Speaker 4: To fucking talk to them.

1264
01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:48,719
Speaker 1: You have to do better. And they'll run into someone

1265
01:17:48,760 --> 01:17:51,760
Speaker 1: like Wednesday, who will you know, scalp them and burn

1266
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:54,599
Speaker 1: their village to the ground. We'll walk around and find.

1267
01:17:54,400 --> 01:17:58,560
Speaker 4: Out, Yeah, she will not forget that anytime soon. I

1268
01:17:59,240 --> 01:18:02,040
Speaker 4: do think it's tricky with a character like Wednesday specifically,

1269
01:18:02,120 --> 01:18:06,440
Speaker 4: I it seems like this is this dynamic is adjusted

1270
01:18:06,520 --> 01:18:09,639
Speaker 4: somewhat in the Netflix series so that Wednesday can have

1271
01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:14,400
Speaker 4: a friend I'm pretty sure, not sure, but this iteration

1272
01:18:14,760 --> 01:18:18,640
Speaker 4: of Wednesday, like she's not going to be building a coalition.

1273
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:23,120
Speaker 4: That's just not what she's gonna do. So, you know,

1274
01:18:23,160 --> 01:18:25,400
Speaker 4: I think the result of that is like you can't there.

1275
01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:27,920
Speaker 4: You probably could have squeezed a little more. And it's

1276
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:30,479
Speaker 4: not that I wanted to admit a character on screen more,

1277
01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:32,960
Speaker 4: but I feel like you could have gotten a little

1278
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:35,559
Speaker 4: more nuanced, like you were just describing Ali of like

1279
01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:38,720
Speaker 4: we see that her parents are racist, but there's not

1280
01:18:38,760 --> 01:18:42,280
Speaker 4: an explicit connection of she is parroting what her parents

1281
01:18:42,280 --> 01:18:45,240
Speaker 4: are saying, because she does say like, you know, she's

1282
01:18:45,240 --> 01:18:48,920
Speaker 4: not just racist, she's also very classist. She you know,

1283
01:18:49,000 --> 01:18:52,559
Speaker 4: when they talk about, you know, uncle Fester is marrying

1284
01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:57,280
Speaker 4: the help and I don't know, this movie will choose

1285
01:18:57,280 --> 01:19:00,600
Speaker 4: a one liner over almost anything, so it's not like

1286
01:19:00,600 --> 01:19:02,920
Speaker 4: we're going to get a deep insight into this very

1287
01:19:02,960 --> 01:19:06,719
Speaker 4: toxic dynamic in Adam's family values. And not being said,

1288
01:19:07,120 --> 01:19:11,200
Speaker 4: I do love that exchange between her and Wednesday where

1289
01:19:11,360 --> 01:19:13,920
Speaker 4: Amanda's like, I'll be the victim and Wednesday is like

1290
01:19:14,040 --> 01:19:18,360
Speaker 4: all your life. It's so good.

1291
01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:23,759
Speaker 1: I also love Okay, as soon as Fester comes back,

1292
01:19:24,320 --> 01:19:26,600
Speaker 1: you know, and Gomez is on his deathbed, you know,

1293
01:19:27,040 --> 01:19:30,080
Speaker 1: his heart is broken because he lost his brother, and

1294
01:19:30,280 --> 01:19:33,800
Speaker 1: as soon as Fester comes back, it's just immediate love

1295
01:19:33,880 --> 01:19:37,840
Speaker 1: and support, like we know, you know, it's not. Wednesday

1296
01:19:37,840 --> 01:19:40,720
Speaker 1: has a moment where she's like, you know, you sent

1297
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:43,479
Speaker 1: us a camp and they made us sing, you know,

1298
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:47,719
Speaker 1: but she gets over it because that's their their unit,

1299
01:19:48,040 --> 01:19:52,240
Speaker 1: that's their family, and it's just such a nice example

1300
01:19:52,439 --> 01:19:57,280
Speaker 1: of how to care for your family when they come

1301
01:19:57,400 --> 01:20:01,320
Speaker 1: back from a very abusive, toxic relationship up which you

1302
01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:04,200
Speaker 1: know of all families do. To see Adam's family.

1303
01:20:05,479 --> 01:20:09,799
Speaker 3: I love the part right after Fester returns and Gomez

1304
01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:12,160
Speaker 3: is kind of in disbelief about it, and he's just

1305
01:20:12,200 --> 01:20:18,640
Speaker 3: like you are, mister Debbie, and I'm like, mister Debbie. Hilarious.

1306
01:20:20,120 --> 01:20:22,920
Speaker 4: They kind of they match each other's freaking a kind

1307
01:20:22,920 --> 01:20:25,439
Speaker 4: of interesting way. I wasn't not rooting for.

1308
01:20:25,479 --> 01:20:29,760
Speaker 3: Them back to Wednesday really quick, though I would have.

1309
01:20:30,080 --> 01:20:31,920
Speaker 3: I mean to me, it feels like they kind of

1310
01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:36,680
Speaker 3: wedge in an unnecessary hetero love story.

1311
01:20:36,840 --> 01:20:39,520
Speaker 4: There very studio notes.

1312
01:20:40,200 --> 01:20:43,719
Speaker 3: And look I Joel as a character I enjoy very much.

1313
01:20:44,120 --> 01:20:48,799
Speaker 3: And you know, a camp crush that's familiar people can.

1314
01:20:48,720 --> 01:20:51,040
Speaker 4: But it's beneath Wednesday Adams.

1315
01:20:51,160 --> 01:20:56,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I do like that he comes over at

1316
01:20:56,120 --> 01:20:58,479
Speaker 3: the very end of the movie and is now like

1317
01:20:58,720 --> 01:21:02,920
Speaker 3: dressing like and Adams, and he basically gives up his

1318
01:21:03,080 --> 01:21:06,360
Speaker 3: identity for a girl, and I think more men should

1319
01:21:06,360 --> 01:21:06,559
Speaker 3: do that.

1320
01:21:07,000 --> 01:21:11,200
Speaker 1: So and I love how how it ends where she's like,

1321
01:21:11,200 --> 01:21:15,080
Speaker 1: I would scare him to death, you know, I assume

1322
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:19,360
Speaker 1: he does so does kill him. And I feel like

1323
01:21:19,479 --> 01:21:23,120
Speaker 1: Wednesday is just like Debbie, that's how it's done. You

1324
01:21:23,200 --> 01:21:26,320
Speaker 1: were slappy because they're over her grave as they do.

1325
01:21:26,320 --> 01:21:27,519
Speaker 1: It's good.

1326
01:21:28,920 --> 01:21:31,760
Speaker 4: I also liked with with Joel. It's again it's it's

1327
01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:35,799
Speaker 4: a very like not a harped upon point. But Joel

1328
01:21:36,160 --> 01:21:39,479
Speaker 4: is from a Jewish family, and his family is very

1329
01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:45,160
Speaker 4: racist toward natives, and he clearly, like I think the Joel,

1330
01:21:45,200 --> 01:21:47,880
Speaker 4: we get a little closer to like what you would

1331
01:21:47,960 --> 01:21:50,920
Speaker 4: hope for in a character like Amanda, where his parents

1332
01:21:50,920 --> 01:21:53,840
Speaker 4: are just as racist as hers are, but he is

1333
01:21:54,640 --> 01:21:58,479
Speaker 4: resisting it and you know, actually trying to learn because

1334
01:21:58,479 --> 01:21:59,760
Speaker 4: he reads, because he reads.

1335
01:21:59,800 --> 01:22:01,560
Speaker 3: He's he reads books.

1336
01:22:01,240 --> 01:22:04,639
Speaker 4: Right right, which I mean even you know, hopefully he's

1337
01:22:04,680 --> 01:22:07,920
Speaker 4: just choosing authors and sources carefully.

1338
01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:08,240
Speaker 3: Jul.

1339
01:22:09,520 --> 01:22:12,439
Speaker 4: But but yeah, like I do like that you have

1340
01:22:12,520 --> 01:22:17,080
Speaker 4: an example of this kid who is unquestionably from privilege,

1341
01:22:17,240 --> 01:22:21,559
Speaker 4: but is not just wholesale buying into the bullshit that

1342
01:22:21,640 --> 01:22:24,839
Speaker 4: his parents believe. I think it's a good good character

1343
01:22:24,920 --> 01:22:26,040
Speaker 4: for kids to see.

1344
01:22:26,240 --> 01:22:31,599
Speaker 1: And I like that his explicit jewishness is at the wedding.

1345
01:22:32,000 --> 01:22:35,280
Speaker 1: So it's not, you know, a joke. It's not you know, like,

1346
01:22:35,960 --> 01:22:37,680
Speaker 1: oh the Jewish kid, you know what I mean, Like,

1347
01:22:37,760 --> 01:22:40,240
Speaker 1: it's not offensive, it's like, oh, he just happens to

1348
01:22:40,240 --> 01:22:42,679
Speaker 1: be Jewish. And when he goes to the wedding, he's

1349
01:22:42,720 --> 01:22:45,360
Speaker 1: wearing I think it's called Yamaica. I'm not sure.

1350
01:22:45,400 --> 01:22:47,800
Speaker 3: I'm not kidding he's wearing a Yamica, right, Because a

1351
01:22:47,800 --> 01:22:52,040
Speaker 3: lot of characters will be coded Jewish in movies but

1352
01:22:52,120 --> 01:22:55,800
Speaker 3: not explicitly defined that way. But I think it's safe

1353
01:22:55,840 --> 01:23:00,599
Speaker 3: to say that his Yamaica explicitly identifies him as being

1354
01:23:00,640 --> 01:23:01,559
Speaker 3: a Jewish kid.

1355
01:23:02,000 --> 01:23:05,120
Speaker 4: Which which makes sense with Barry sound and fault. I

1356
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:08,040
Speaker 4: think that's been a very consistent part of like, you know,

1357
01:23:08,120 --> 01:23:11,960
Speaker 4: he wants to have good representation of young Jewish characters.

1358
01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:16,280
Speaker 3: Right. Shout out to a couple of my favorite lines

1359
01:23:16,400 --> 01:23:21,240
Speaker 3: slash jokes mortitious, saying, I'm just like any modern woman

1360
01:23:21,320 --> 01:23:23,759
Speaker 3: trying to have it all, a loving husband, a family.

1361
01:23:24,160 --> 01:23:26,160
Speaker 3: It's just I wish I had more time to seek

1362
01:23:26,200 --> 01:23:28,880
Speaker 3: out the dark forces and join their hellish crusade.

1363
01:23:29,280 --> 01:23:34,400
Speaker 4: That's my one thing with this movie that there's so

1364
01:23:34,520 --> 01:23:37,519
Speaker 4: much amazing, there's so many great storylines. I just I'm like,

1365
01:23:37,960 --> 01:23:39,519
Speaker 4: not enough more Titia for me.

1366
01:23:40,000 --> 01:23:40,320
Speaker 3: I need.

1367
01:23:40,360 --> 01:23:42,960
Speaker 4: That's like the one thing that we're One of the

1368
01:23:43,000 --> 01:23:45,280
Speaker 4: only things that the first movie has the edge over

1369
01:23:45,320 --> 01:23:49,240
Speaker 4: the second movie, and is Gomez and Martitia are art

1370
01:23:49,360 --> 01:23:53,400
Speaker 4: around for the majority of the action, and which I

1371
01:23:53,439 --> 01:23:56,080
Speaker 4: don't know if that was like an availability thing or

1372
01:23:56,120 --> 01:23:59,400
Speaker 4: whatever it may be, But I mean, I just always

1373
01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:00,920
Speaker 4: want to see Raul.

1374
01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:06,080
Speaker 3: Julia's health was failing during the shooting of this movie.

1375
01:24:06,160 --> 01:24:08,080
Speaker 4: Oh wait, this is his last film, right, the.

1376
01:24:08,040 --> 01:24:10,599
Speaker 3: Last one that he shot. And then something else came

1377
01:24:10,640 --> 01:24:13,080
Speaker 3: out after he had passed Street Fighter.

1378
01:24:13,640 --> 01:24:19,479
Speaker 4: Yes, wow, Karen, but very nineties, Yes, Okay, that that

1379
01:24:19,520 --> 01:24:20,240
Speaker 4: does make sense.

1380
01:24:20,479 --> 01:24:22,160
Speaker 3: It could have been that, and maybe they needed to

1381
01:24:22,160 --> 01:24:25,200
Speaker 3: make changes to the script to accommodate his health. We're

1382
01:24:25,240 --> 01:24:28,080
Speaker 3: not totally sure, but he was missed.

1383
01:24:28,080 --> 01:24:31,519
Speaker 4: I also didn't realize that because the grandmother character is

1384
01:24:31,600 --> 01:24:35,719
Speaker 4: under so much makeup that it's Carol Kane in this one.

1385
01:24:36,000 --> 01:24:39,880
Speaker 4: I didn't didn't know that was her in there. Always

1386
01:24:39,960 --> 01:24:41,479
Speaker 4: happy to see Carol Kane.

1387
01:24:42,040 --> 01:24:47,920
Speaker 3: Indeed, one of my other favorite jokes is Gomez saying

1388
01:24:47,960 --> 01:24:50,880
Speaker 3: to Fester. After Fester is saying how oh he would

1389
01:24:50,920 --> 01:24:54,280
Speaker 3: like to one day get married and have children, Gomez says,

1390
01:24:54,520 --> 01:24:57,280
Speaker 3: I hope you someday know the indescribable joy of having

1391
01:24:57,400 --> 01:25:02,240
Speaker 3: children and paying someone else to raise them. Hilarious, incredible.

1392
01:25:03,760 --> 01:25:05,760
Speaker 1: Do you know? Like this movie was so ahead of

1393
01:25:05,760 --> 01:25:09,559
Speaker 1: its time anyways, But the fact that Pubert, you know,

1394
01:25:09,640 --> 01:25:12,599
Speaker 1: when he is possessed in his blonde and looks like

1395
01:25:15,360 --> 01:25:19,040
Speaker 1: the grandma, is like, he could become a lawyer and

1396
01:25:19,080 --> 01:25:23,320
Speaker 1: he's not in this house. He could be the president.

1397
01:25:23,600 --> 01:25:26,720
Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, that is legitimately terrifying

1398
01:25:26,800 --> 01:25:30,880
Speaker 1: now because there are lawyers who voted for Trump and

1399
01:25:30,960 --> 01:25:34,800
Speaker 1: Trump became president, and I would definitely be concerned as

1400
01:25:34,840 --> 01:25:36,479
Speaker 1: well for my child.

1401
01:25:36,720 --> 01:25:37,600
Speaker 3: Oh yes, I do.

1402
01:25:37,800 --> 01:25:38,400
Speaker 4: I love that.

1403
01:25:38,520 --> 01:25:38,720
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1404
01:25:38,760 --> 01:25:41,200
Speaker 4: Their whole thing, like I feel like it hasn't really

1405
01:25:41,240 --> 01:25:45,439
Speaker 4: been done effectively since, but does the ideas of like

1406
01:25:45,920 --> 01:25:50,559
Speaker 4: them being the least American family in terms of like

1407
01:25:50,640 --> 01:25:54,880
Speaker 4: ascribing to these like white supremacist American values and yet

1408
01:25:55,120 --> 01:25:58,679
Speaker 4: really thriving all at all times. It's very cool.

1409
01:25:59,439 --> 01:26:01,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, like, when you think about it, it's

1410
01:26:01,640 --> 01:26:05,280
Speaker 1: like gom as a Morticia. Not only do they just

1411
01:26:05,520 --> 01:26:09,920
Speaker 1: love each other like fiercely, like they are very romantic,

1412
01:26:10,080 --> 01:26:13,719
Speaker 1: very sexual, very you know, like on each other's level,

1413
01:26:14,080 --> 01:26:17,200
Speaker 1: but they also respect each other. They co parent together.

1414
01:26:17,360 --> 01:26:20,360
Speaker 1: It's not like, you know, oh, I'm cleaning up after

1415
01:26:20,439 --> 01:26:25,560
Speaker 1: my useless husband while he you know, weaponizes his incompetence.

1416
01:26:26,000 --> 01:26:30,400
Speaker 1: You know. It's, uh, it's very interesting, it's very wholesome.

1417
01:26:30,800 --> 01:26:34,320
Speaker 1: I also love how they're just so secure in their

1418
01:26:34,360 --> 01:26:38,040
Speaker 1: sexuality so much, like they know they're the hottest people

1419
01:26:38,080 --> 01:26:40,760
Speaker 1: in the room and the hottest people to each other.

1420
01:26:41,439 --> 01:26:42,080
Speaker 3: It's awesome.

1421
01:26:42,520 --> 01:26:44,040
Speaker 1: It's it's great goals.

1422
01:26:44,160 --> 01:26:48,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just gonna say, hashtag relationship goals. And yeah,

1423
01:26:48,240 --> 01:26:51,080
Speaker 3: I think we talk about that in quite a bit

1424
01:26:51,080 --> 01:26:54,240
Speaker 3: of depth in our first episode, so if listeners want

1425
01:26:54,280 --> 01:26:59,599
Speaker 3: to go back and check that out, we wax poetic

1426
01:26:59,640 --> 01:27:04,720
Speaker 3: about it. The last thing I wanted to say was

1427
01:27:05,360 --> 01:27:09,920
Speaker 3: Wednesday talking about Gary's play, right after she's initially been

1428
01:27:10,000 --> 01:27:12,560
Speaker 3: cast in it, and she's like, I don't want to

1429
01:27:12,600 --> 01:27:15,360
Speaker 3: be in this and she says, your work is puerile

1430
01:27:15,520 --> 01:27:19,360
Speaker 3: and under dramatized. You lack any sense of structure, character

1431
01:27:19,800 --> 01:27:24,760
Speaker 3: or the Aristotelian unities. And it's like us describing most

1432
01:27:24,800 --> 01:27:26,639
Speaker 3: movies they cover on the.

1433
01:27:26,600 --> 01:27:35,000
Speaker 4: Podcast Wednesday Adams come on the show, Christina, please, Yeah,

1434
01:27:35,000 --> 01:27:36,960
Speaker 4: I think that that's all I had. But that was

1435
01:27:37,000 --> 01:27:40,000
Speaker 4: a lot. I mean this, this movie gives a lot

1436
01:27:40,040 --> 01:27:43,439
Speaker 4: to chew on or however you say that correctly, a

1437
01:27:43,479 --> 01:27:44,840
Speaker 4: lot of gristle to.

1438
01:27:45,080 --> 01:27:47,759
Speaker 3: That was the word I was chew on. It's another

1439
01:27:47,840 --> 01:27:48,360
Speaker 3: weird word.

1440
01:27:49,280 --> 01:27:51,800
Speaker 1: Some one did say that Fester and Debbie is like

1441
01:27:51,840 --> 01:27:55,880
Speaker 1: Trump and Millennia, but I disagree completely, because Fester adores

1442
01:27:55,960 --> 01:28:00,719
Speaker 1: Debbie and Trump doesn't adore anybody except himself and his money.

1443
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:01,400
Speaker 3: That's true.

1444
01:28:02,160 --> 01:28:05,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, guys, why you got a drag Fester? Yeah, no,

1445
01:28:05,920 --> 01:28:08,000
Speaker 1: it doesn't deserve that Festers.

1446
01:28:08,160 --> 01:28:10,760
Speaker 3: He's had it hard enough. It feels almost subversive to

1447
01:28:10,800 --> 01:28:16,760
Speaker 3: me that he's this like love sick, like longing for companionship,

1448
01:28:16,880 --> 01:28:20,240
Speaker 3: and he wants to be married so much, and he's

1449
01:28:20,280 --> 01:28:23,880
Speaker 3: like he submits to the first woman that shows any

1450
01:28:23,920 --> 01:28:27,360
Speaker 3: interest in him. He's you know, he's like a very

1451
01:28:28,080 --> 01:28:29,559
Speaker 3: just love sick man.

1452
01:28:29,720 --> 01:28:30,120
Speaker 4: I mean, it.

1453
01:28:30,080 --> 01:28:31,320
Speaker 3: Feels like to see more of that.

1454
01:28:31,680 --> 01:28:34,960
Speaker 4: It feels like they're they like he or Debbie keeps

1455
01:28:34,960 --> 01:28:38,799
Speaker 4: waiting for him to feel emasculated, right, and he just doesn't.

1456
01:28:38,920 --> 01:28:39,639
Speaker 1: He just doesn't.

1457
01:28:40,360 --> 01:28:41,040
Speaker 3: It's not a.

1458
01:28:41,000 --> 01:28:44,519
Speaker 4: Part of his makeup. And I'm like, great, I don't know.

1459
01:28:44,640 --> 01:28:48,080
Speaker 4: It's he was looking for a woman to throw a

1460
01:28:48,120 --> 01:28:52,160
Speaker 4: toaster in his bats up and she found him. Yeah,

1461
01:28:52,439 --> 01:28:56,439
Speaker 4: rip Debbie.

1462
01:28:55,320 --> 01:29:00,360
Speaker 1: Oh daddy. My mom took personal offense that her name

1463
01:29:00,439 --> 01:29:03,439
Speaker 1: was Debbie, just because of how Fester would be like,

1464
01:29:03,800 --> 01:29:06,960
Speaker 1: oh Debbie. She's like, stop.

1465
01:29:06,560 --> 01:29:08,720
Speaker 3: It wait, is that your mom's name?

1466
01:29:09,080 --> 01:29:13,639
Speaker 1: My mom's name was Debbie. I take personal but her

1467
01:29:13,720 --> 01:29:19,439
Speaker 1: name is Debbie, just because how dare oh poor mama.

1468
01:29:20,120 --> 01:29:23,479
Speaker 3: Does anyone have anything else they'd like to talk about?

1469
01:29:23,960 --> 01:29:24,320
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1470
01:29:24,360 --> 01:29:27,160
Speaker 1: I like how this movie was as good as it

1471
01:29:27,400 --> 01:29:30,200
Speaker 1: was for the run time that it had. It doesn't

1472
01:29:30,240 --> 01:29:33,040
Speaker 1: feel like it dragged on for too long, except for

1473
01:29:33,120 --> 01:29:36,240
Speaker 1: you know, Fester's O face that dragged on a bit

1474
01:29:36,280 --> 01:29:40,360
Speaker 1: too long. But I just watched it this morning with

1475
01:29:40,400 --> 01:29:42,760
Speaker 1: my family and we laughed our asses off.

1476
01:29:42,800 --> 01:29:46,240
Speaker 3: So it's like a cool ninety four minutes or something

1477
01:29:46,320 --> 01:29:48,800
Speaker 3: like that. I love it. We should go back to

1478
01:29:48,800 --> 01:29:53,639
Speaker 3: those I know, so I'm always saying the movie does

1479
01:29:53,680 --> 01:30:03,160
Speaker 3: pass the Bechdel test where Wednesday and Amanda insult each other,

1480
01:30:04,080 --> 01:30:06,200
Speaker 3: Wednesday and Debbie.

1481
01:30:06,680 --> 01:30:10,679
Speaker 4: All of the Debbie confrontation that Mortitia and Debbie. There's

1482
01:30:10,720 --> 01:30:12,759
Speaker 4: at least one exchange in there that.

1483
01:30:12,840 --> 01:30:15,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, Martitia and her mom. I think either mostly talk

1484
01:30:16,000 --> 01:30:21,360
Speaker 3: about the baby who's a boy or Gomez, but maybe

1485
01:30:21,400 --> 01:30:24,519
Speaker 3: there's a couple quick exchanges. Either way, the movie passes.

1486
01:30:24,920 --> 01:30:26,520
Speaker 1: She curses Debbie.

1487
01:30:26,800 --> 01:30:31,320
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that passes. A woman curses, another one cursing Debbie.

1488
01:30:33,600 --> 01:30:38,519
Speaker 3: So yeah, lots of passes. Lots of combinations are nipple scale, though,

1489
01:30:38,800 --> 01:30:42,639
Speaker 3: where we rate the movie zero to five nipples based

1490
01:30:42,680 --> 01:30:48,360
Speaker 3: on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens, I'll give it.

1491
01:30:49,320 --> 01:30:53,960
Speaker 3: I think like a three, maybe even as much as

1492
01:30:53,960 --> 01:30:57,240
Speaker 3: a three and a half. And maybe that's too generous,

1493
01:30:57,360 --> 01:31:02,960
Speaker 3: but considering this is a mainst stream studio movie in

1494
01:31:03,000 --> 01:31:09,040
Speaker 3: the early nineties that has a full monologue where a

1495
01:31:09,200 --> 01:31:17,280
Speaker 3: character acknowledges land theft and displacement and poverty and class

1496
01:31:17,320 --> 01:31:23,760
Speaker 3: disparity between white colonizers and Native people, and that is

1497
01:31:23,840 --> 01:31:31,160
Speaker 3: followed by a scene of said colonizers burning like their

1498
01:31:32,520 --> 01:31:36,760
Speaker 3: village burning to the ground, and you know, the main

1499
01:31:36,840 --> 01:31:41,080
Speaker 3: pilgrim lady being tied up at the stake about to

1500
01:31:41,120 --> 01:31:45,320
Speaker 3: be burned. All that like, it's very cathartic. As we've discussed,

1501
01:31:45,479 --> 01:31:50,640
Speaker 3: It's not handled perfectly. There are you know, things that

1502
01:31:50,680 --> 01:31:53,400
Speaker 3: could have been done a little bit differently, but again

1503
01:31:53,439 --> 01:31:58,160
Speaker 3: for the early nineties, it feels pretty groundbreaking for a

1504
01:31:58,200 --> 01:32:01,960
Speaker 3: movie to have done that. So and I just you know,

1505
01:32:02,040 --> 01:32:04,800
Speaker 3: I love this family. I love the characters who are

1506
01:32:04,840 --> 01:32:08,080
Speaker 3: girls and women in this family. They get most of

1507
01:32:08,120 --> 01:32:11,559
Speaker 3: the best jokes and laugh lines. I love it when

1508
01:32:12,280 --> 01:32:14,880
Speaker 3: women are allowed to be funny and allowed to have

1509
01:32:15,000 --> 01:32:18,919
Speaker 3: jokes because so few movies and so a few comedy

1510
01:32:18,960 --> 01:32:23,439
Speaker 3: movies let women say the funny things. But most of

1511
01:32:23,479 --> 01:32:28,560
Speaker 3: the best jokes are either Mortitia or Wednesday. Mabby is

1512
01:32:28,560 --> 01:32:35,120
Speaker 3: pretty funny too, and Debbie's funny too. Yeah, it's great

1513
01:32:35,600 --> 01:32:38,160
Speaker 3: every performance. No one does a bad job.

1514
01:32:38,240 --> 01:32:39,839
Speaker 4: No one does a bad job in this movie.

1515
01:32:39,960 --> 01:32:42,559
Speaker 3: So yeah, three, I'm gonna three and a half and

1516
01:32:43,400 --> 01:32:46,639
Speaker 3: I'll give one to Wednesday, one to more Titia, one

1517
01:32:46,680 --> 01:32:51,760
Speaker 3: to Debbie. She did nothing wrong, right, maybe Ibbie, And

1518
01:32:51,800 --> 01:32:54,839
Speaker 3: I'll give my half nipple to all to the kitten

1519
01:32:56,080 --> 01:32:59,160
Speaker 3: maybe got buried alive at the beginning rip. I know,

1520
01:32:59,760 --> 01:33:01,960
Speaker 3: I think it escaped. That's my head canon.

1521
01:33:02,680 --> 01:33:04,800
Speaker 4: I think I'll make sure at three point five. With

1522
01:33:04,880 --> 01:33:07,760
Speaker 4: the understanding that we've talked about a bit, and as

1523
01:33:07,880 --> 01:33:10,880
Speaker 4: you talk about in your video, ALLI like that my

1524
01:33:11,160 --> 01:33:12,160
Speaker 4: enjoyment of the movie.

1525
01:33:12,240 --> 01:33:12,920
Speaker 3: Does you know.

1526
01:33:13,000 --> 01:33:17,320
Speaker 4: I would never argue against a Native viewer who was like, no,

1527
01:33:17,400 --> 01:33:19,360
Speaker 4: fuck it, it's still doing a lot of the same

1528
01:33:19,880 --> 01:33:22,400
Speaker 4: reductive tropes that we see in movies over and over.

1529
01:33:22,520 --> 01:33:25,080
Speaker 4: But I agree with the Caitlin that this movie is

1530
01:33:25,200 --> 01:33:29,120
Speaker 4: doing this, particularly for its time, something that not only

1531
01:33:29,200 --> 01:33:34,639
Speaker 4: were other family directed media not attempting, but in short

1532
01:33:34,760 --> 01:33:39,519
Speaker 4: order would be doing the exact opposite with Pocahontas. And

1533
01:33:39,640 --> 01:33:41,760
Speaker 4: so the fact that this came out a year and

1534
01:33:41,760 --> 01:33:45,479
Speaker 4: a half before Pocahontas, I think is actually it is

1535
01:33:45,680 --> 01:33:49,240
Speaker 4: really really worth remembering how these movies are in conversation

1536
01:33:49,360 --> 01:33:53,400
Speaker 4: with one another, even though there are shortcomings that this

1537
01:33:53,520 --> 01:33:59,040
Speaker 4: movie has and that it is still ultimately centered on whiteness. Yeah,

1538
01:33:59,200 --> 01:34:01,000
Speaker 4: I mean, we've talked about most of it. But I

1539
01:34:01,040 --> 01:34:03,839
Speaker 4: think that this this movie and this like series in general,

1540
01:34:03,880 --> 01:34:06,960
Speaker 4: it just is like an endless amount of opportunities to

1541
01:34:07,080 --> 01:34:11,280
Speaker 4: push back on popular white supremacist American narratives, and I

1542
01:34:11,320 --> 01:34:14,320
Speaker 4: think this movie is the best example of them really

1543
01:34:14,560 --> 01:34:17,400
Speaker 4: swinging for the fences with it. So I'm gonna go

1544
01:34:17,479 --> 01:34:19,719
Speaker 4: three and a half nipples, and I'm giving them all

1545
01:34:19,880 --> 01:34:22,959
Speaker 4: to the very son Enfeld episode.

1546
01:34:24,280 --> 01:34:26,880
Speaker 3: Well, speaking of rip RIP.

1547
01:34:29,280 --> 01:34:34,400
Speaker 1: I am giving it four because I loved it. I

1548
01:34:34,439 --> 01:34:37,200
Speaker 1: really loved it, just because of how cathartic it was,

1549
01:34:37,360 --> 01:34:41,040
Speaker 1: you know, and how it still like holds up now,

1550
01:34:41,320 --> 01:34:45,080
Speaker 1: and especially because like it could be made today, but

1551
01:34:45,120 --> 01:34:47,719
Speaker 1: then it would be canceled for being woke or something

1552
01:34:47,800 --> 01:34:50,959
Speaker 1: equally ridiculous and be like God that was so forced,

1553
01:34:51,080 --> 01:34:55,560
Speaker 1: or Wednesday gave that speech you know today, right, but

1554
01:34:56,240 --> 01:35:01,479
Speaker 1: still they would be wrong today anyway. So I would

1555
01:35:01,479 --> 01:35:07,280
Speaker 1: give my nipples to Mortitia and to Debbie that who

1556
01:35:07,280 --> 01:35:12,599
Speaker 1: else can have them? Who else? A thing?

1557
01:35:12,880 --> 01:35:13,240
Speaker 3: Why not?

1558
01:35:13,560 --> 01:35:19,559
Speaker 1: But he has to watch his name first after got No.

1559
01:35:21,360 --> 01:35:26,960
Speaker 4: Really, the of this movie is just doing so much,

1560
01:35:27,280 --> 01:35:32,679
Speaker 4: like so much? Why why all the incest implications with

1561
01:35:32,680 --> 01:35:33,720
Speaker 4: with the mom right?

1562
01:35:33,800 --> 01:35:35,519
Speaker 3: Is thing related to them?

1563
01:35:35,880 --> 01:35:36,400
Speaker 1: I hope not?

1564
01:35:36,680 --> 01:35:37,120
Speaker 3: I hope not.

1565
01:35:37,439 --> 01:35:39,799
Speaker 4: I guess I was talking about the mom thing? Why

1566
01:35:39,720 --> 01:35:43,559
Speaker 4: the mom thing? But why is that there? Why is

1567
01:35:43,600 --> 01:35:46,479
Speaker 4: that there? I don't know. Also shout out okay, I

1568
01:35:46,680 --> 01:35:49,719
Speaker 4: I couldn't tell if the movie. I think the movie

1569
01:35:49,800 --> 01:35:52,960
Speaker 4: was poking fun at him a little bit, But I

1570
01:35:53,160 --> 01:35:58,360
Speaker 4: liked that Fester was not ashamed or embarrassed or felt

1571
01:35:58,360 --> 01:36:01,160
Speaker 4: any which way about saying that he hadn't had sex before.

1572
01:36:02,320 --> 01:36:02,719
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1573
01:36:02,800 --> 01:36:05,759
Speaker 4: I liked that. I thought that was a cool moment,

1574
01:36:06,200 --> 01:36:10,200
Speaker 4: and especially because the contrasted, like the joke of the

1575
01:36:10,240 --> 01:36:14,439
Speaker 4: scene is that she is lying about being a virgin,

1576
01:36:14,680 --> 01:36:19,240
Speaker 4: because that is something that is valued, especially in white womanhood,

1577
01:36:19,320 --> 01:36:21,800
Speaker 4: is you know, purity, blah blah blah and that. But

1578
01:36:21,960 --> 01:36:25,800
Speaker 4: it's gross. It's like emasculating if men, you know what

1579
01:36:25,840 --> 01:36:27,360
Speaker 4: I'm talking about. But he was like, oh, I'm a

1580
01:36:27,400 --> 01:36:30,639
Speaker 4: virgin too, awesome. I was like, I love you love.

1581
01:36:30,680 --> 01:36:33,200
Speaker 3: I feel like the movie doesn't really cast judgment on

1582
01:36:33,520 --> 01:36:36,640
Speaker 3: him for that. Yeah, but I don't know. I was like,

1583
01:36:36,680 --> 01:36:37,200
Speaker 3: probably the.

1584
01:36:37,200 --> 01:36:39,960
Speaker 4: Nineteen ninety three I'm sure that that is supposed to

1585
01:36:39,960 --> 01:36:42,640
Speaker 4: be a laugh live but it just really endeared me

1586
01:36:42,760 --> 01:36:44,800
Speaker 4: to him. And it just is another way that the

1587
01:36:44,800 --> 01:36:50,920
Speaker 4: Adams family kind of consistently eschewes these gender norms.

1588
01:36:51,760 --> 01:36:56,360
Speaker 3: Well, there you have it. That's our Adams Family Valuees episode. Allie,

1589
01:36:56,360 --> 01:36:59,960
Speaker 3: thank you so much for joining us. Where can people

1590
01:37:00,080 --> 01:37:04,439
Speaker 3: bull check out your work? Tell us what you'd like

1591
01:37:04,479 --> 01:37:05,000
Speaker 3: to plug?

1592
01:37:05,320 --> 01:37:08,720
Speaker 1: Okay, so you can visit me on YouTube. That's where

1593
01:37:08,760 --> 01:37:11,000
Speaker 1: you'll get like my quality stuff. If you want to

1594
01:37:11,040 --> 01:37:14,519
Speaker 1: see my less quality stuff but still entertaining. I guess

1595
01:37:14,880 --> 01:37:19,840
Speaker 1: I'm on TikTok. I still run the Ali Nati Test

1596
01:37:20,160 --> 01:37:24,320
Speaker 1: on Tumblr, but it's the Aila Dash the Dash Aila

1597
01:37:24,520 --> 01:37:30,599
Speaker 1: Dash Test on Tumblr. I also run another blog that's

1598
01:37:31,000 --> 01:37:34,400
Speaker 1: not as fun, but I still try to make it pretty,

1599
01:37:34,520 --> 01:37:37,639
Speaker 1: you know, like relevant or important. It's called the your

1600
01:37:37,680 --> 01:37:42,639
Speaker 1: fave is Anti Native and that one is about It's

1601
01:37:42,720 --> 01:37:45,439
Speaker 1: kind of in the vein of your favorite problematic, except

1602
01:37:45,479 --> 01:37:51,960
Speaker 1: it focuses specifically on public figures, so actors or politicians

1603
01:37:52,320 --> 01:37:56,439
Speaker 1: or world leaders or whoever with like a big public

1604
01:37:56,720 --> 01:38:02,480
Speaker 1: influential presence how they have been anti Indigenous with their racism,

1605
01:38:03,000 --> 01:38:06,439
Speaker 1: either in the past or currently. So it doesn't like

1606
01:38:06,680 --> 01:38:11,240
Speaker 1: just tackle any like rando on the Internet. It's specifically like,

1607
01:38:11,360 --> 01:38:13,720
Speaker 1: this is who this person is, this is how you

1608
01:38:13,800 --> 01:38:17,640
Speaker 1: know who they are, and this is what they've said,

1609
01:38:17,880 --> 01:38:20,559
Speaker 1: you know, And it's less about you know call out

1610
01:38:20,600 --> 01:38:27,559
Speaker 1: culture and more about how normalized anti indigenous racism is

1611
01:38:28,200 --> 01:38:32,160
Speaker 1: like across a scale, you know, like if our politicians

1612
01:38:32,160 --> 01:38:35,240
Speaker 1: and our movie stars and stuff can get away with

1613
01:38:35,320 --> 01:38:38,519
Speaker 1: saying it, I mean, of course the people, the rando's

1614
01:38:38,560 --> 01:38:40,479
Speaker 1: and the comments are going to feel comfortable saying it,

1615
01:38:41,160 --> 01:38:43,800
Speaker 1: you know. So there's a lot of people on there,

1616
01:38:44,280 --> 01:38:48,800
Speaker 1: but more creatively, I mean, like my YouTube is the

1617
01:38:48,840 --> 01:38:53,639
Speaker 1: place to go for some more fun. And I have

1618
01:38:53,840 --> 01:38:57,599
Speaker 1: a project that's coming up soon that should be done

1619
01:38:57,640 --> 01:38:59,320
Speaker 1: sometime this week. It was supposed to be do on

1620
01:38:59,400 --> 01:39:03,040
Speaker 1: Memorial Day, but me and deadlines since it's not my job.

1621
01:39:03,240 --> 01:39:06,840
Speaker 1: So take your time and thank you so much for

1622
01:39:06,880 --> 01:39:09,559
Speaker 1: inviting me. I always love coming on. And this is

1623
01:39:09,640 --> 01:39:10,719
Speaker 1: number four now.

1624
01:39:10,640 --> 01:39:14,839
Speaker 4: Right, yeah, five timer jacket on the way, the jacket

1625
01:39:14,840 --> 01:39:15,360
Speaker 4: we makeup.

1626
01:39:15,479 --> 01:39:17,040
Speaker 1: I'm so happy you guys aren't sake of me.

1627
01:39:17,760 --> 01:39:20,000
Speaker 4: I love you, We love you. Oh my gosh, thank you,

1628
01:39:20,080 --> 01:39:21,360
Speaker 4: thank you for coming back.

1629
01:39:21,560 --> 01:39:26,320
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you Megwitch. I did want to say though,

1630
01:39:26,360 --> 01:39:30,080
Speaker 1: I wanted to really thank both of you because of

1631
01:39:30,200 --> 01:39:36,439
Speaker 1: the search the landfill hashtag that we talked about in

1632
01:39:36,520 --> 01:39:41,639
Speaker 1: the Avatar episode, because they found them. Like I try

1633
01:39:41,680 --> 01:39:44,479
Speaker 1: to keep you guys in the updated every time new

1634
01:39:44,520 --> 01:39:49,760
Speaker 1: information came up, but they found them, and so I

1635
01:39:50,040 --> 01:39:51,880
Speaker 1: you know, obviously a lot of people did a lot

1636
01:39:51,920 --> 01:39:56,000
Speaker 1: of work, but I think that though talking about it

1637
01:39:56,000 --> 01:39:59,719
Speaker 1: on the Beckel Cast probably put it on people's radar,

1638
01:40:00,120 --> 01:40:04,280
Speaker 1: otherwise wouldn't have. So I think every little bit helps,

1639
01:40:04,320 --> 01:40:07,240
Speaker 1: And I just wanted to thank you guys for doing that, so.

1640
01:40:07,680 --> 01:40:10,200
Speaker 4: Literally the least we could do. Thank you, Thank you

1641
01:40:10,280 --> 01:40:13,120
Speaker 4: so much for consistently bringing important stories here.

1642
01:40:13,520 --> 01:40:15,920
Speaker 1: Let's do the same for Jonathan Johns and give him

1643
01:40:15,920 --> 01:40:16,519
Speaker 1: some justice.

1644
01:40:16,760 --> 01:40:20,519
Speaker 4: Justice for Jonathan. I still yeah, I literally just checked

1645
01:40:20,520 --> 01:40:23,040
Speaker 4: to be like, has anyone else from Parks and Rex

1646
01:40:23,080 --> 01:40:26,280
Speaker 4: said anything not at the time of this recording.

1647
01:40:26,800 --> 01:40:28,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, so fix that.

1648
01:40:29,200 --> 01:40:33,479
Speaker 4: Fucking fix it. Yeah, And with that, let's go, yell,

1649
01:40:34,120 --> 01:40:36,600
Speaker 4: let's go shake our fist at Debbie's grave.

1650
01:40:39,560 --> 01:40:47,000
Speaker 3: By bye bye. The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia,

1651
01:40:47,120 --> 01:40:50,960
Speaker 3: hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lichterman,

1652
01:40:51,240 --> 01:40:54,639
Speaker 3: edited by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by

1653
01:40:54,640 --> 01:40:58,719
Speaker 3: Mike Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Voss Krasinski. Our logo

1654
01:40:58,880 --> 01:41:02,080
Speaker 3: and merch is designed by Jamie Loftus and a special

1655
01:41:02,120 --> 01:41:06,160
Speaker 3: thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast,

1656
01:41:06,280 --> 01:41:08,480
Speaker 3: please visit link Tree Slash Bechtelcast