Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2: Well, our next guest runs ride Shair Giant Uber and
Speaker 2: is visiting Asia seeking new avenues of growth. The company
Speaker 2: has been successful in many markets in this region, but
Speaker 2: has also faced regulatory hurdles and local competition. Joining us
Speaker 2: exclusively now is the uberc of Dara Kosha Shawi rather
Speaker 2: joining us this morning, Dar. So it's been a very
Speaker 2: busy week for you today. If you've been Japan, Korea, Taiwan,
Speaker 2: Hong Kong, what's been this sort of standout so far?
Speaker 1: The key takeaways, well, the key takeaways for US is
Speaker 1: growth the APAC market and in particular the North Asia
Speaker 1: markets as well. They are huge growth markets for US.
Speaker 1: And if you look, for example, in the ride share business,
Speaker 1: over thirty percent of our global first trips coming into
Speaker 1: the category come from the APAC region. The area is
Speaker 1: growing very quickly, including taxi as well, which is actually
Speaker 1: one of our newest products on the platform. So for me,
Speaker 1: coming here, seeing the teams, meeting with local business people
Speaker 1: and regulators and talking about how we can be part
Speaker 1: of the future growth of the region is really what
Speaker 1: my agenda is.
Speaker 2: Early this year, you also put out a statement on
Speaker 2: the robot taxi push as well, and so the Middle
Speaker 2: East and Asia were the markets for twenty twenty five
Speaker 2: to launch, and we've seen of course that initial deployment
Speaker 2: in the Middle East already. What's happening on the Asia
Speaker 2: side well, lots.
Speaker 1: Of discussions on the Asia side. I think what's really
Speaker 1: important is to set up a regulatory framework to go forward.
Speaker 1: For example, Hong Kong has various trials and pilots going on,
Speaker 1: and in many other markets we're talking to regulators about
Speaker 1: how we can be a part of shaping ride share
Speaker 1: and autonomous ride shair going forward. The technology is absolutely
Speaker 1: getting there.
Speaker 3: These are the.
Speaker 1: Robot driver doesn't get tired, doesn't get distracted, and we
Speaker 1: very much look forward to working with various authorities to
Speaker 1: introduce rod share into the markets. We're now live in
Speaker 1: four markets now as we speak, in the US and
Speaker 1: in the Middle East, and I expect to be in
Speaker 1: ten plus markets by next year, and we want those
Speaker 1: markets to be in the Asia Pacific region as well.
Speaker 2: Where then in Asia do you think is the most
Speaker 2: likely place.
Speaker 1: We'll see I think that certainly Japan has great potential,
Speaker 1: you know, with.
Speaker 2: They behind on their regulation, they are.
Speaker 1: Behind in their regulation, but I think that they also
Speaker 1: understand that with an aging population, there's a real need
Speaker 1: for transportation, not just in the large cities but in
Speaker 1: the rural areas. And for example, I experienced that personally
Speaker 1: going to Kaga City and where we have communal ride
Speaker 1: share and kind of took a ride share trip and
Speaker 1: understood what the needs are there. So we're talking with
Speaker 1: very countries regulatory authorities. I think Japan is going to
Speaker 1: be part of it. I certainly hope that Hong Kong
Speaker 1: is going to be a.
Speaker 3: Part of it.
Speaker 1: Australia, where we were just talking about, is a huge
Speaker 1: market for us. So we're having those dialogues and I
Speaker 1: think that the picture will shape up over the next
Speaker 1: two years because the technology is definitely getting there.
Speaker 2: Speaking of Hong Kong, because we do see the trials
Speaker 2: that are underweight and they're being conducted by Baydu's Apollogo program.
Speaker 2: Would you be looking to work with them on that
Speaker 2: or are you working with them on that?
Speaker 1: By Do is a partner of ours, So we partner
Speaker 1: with Baidu. We're an we ride for example in Abu
Speaker 1: Dhabi and expanding their ponies another partner of ours. So
Speaker 1: We absolutely expect to be on the road with all
Speaker 1: three of them. When you look at Chinese autonomous technology
Speaker 1: and the development there, they are one of the leaders
Speaker 1: on a global basis, and for us, we want to
Speaker 1: partner with the whole autonomous ecosystem to bring this technology
Speaker 1: to reality.
Speaker 2: So just to clarify, you're expecting to ramp up the market.
Speaker 2: So you're into ten autonamous driving markets ten plus yes
Speaker 2: by next year, and you anticipate that those could also
Speaker 2: come from the Asia region.
Speaker 1: They could come from the Asia region, and they could
Speaker 1: also involve some of the partners that we talked about.
Speaker 3: By do we ride a pony?
Speaker 2: And if not Hong Kong, then where else? Do you think?
Speaker 2: In Japan? As I said, it's really is behind on
Speaker 2: the regulatory side.
Speaker 1: In every major market in which we operate, we are
Speaker 1: having discussions with autonomous partners and then most importantly regulators
Speaker 1: as to how we can introduce autonomous either in a
Speaker 1: pilot way or within some restricted operational domain.
Speaker 3: You know, everyone wants this product.
Speaker 1: It's a product that's delightful in markets for example, in Atlanta,
Speaker 1: in Austin and Abu Dhabi.
Speaker 3: Our consumers love the product.
Speaker 1: They feel safe, and this technology is hitting primetime now
Speaker 1: and every major city in the world wants to be
Speaker 1: a part of that revolution.
Speaker 2: I do find it interesting on By in particular with
Speaker 2: the Apollogo program, because they are conducting the trials here.
Speaker 2: They're already starting to remove the human drivers across some
Speaker 2: of their markets in mainland Shiner and the way that
Speaker 2: you can get a buy to apologo ride in mainland
Speaker 2: China is often through a buy do control platform. Do
Speaker 2: you see that risk of them maybe pursuing that strategy
Speaker 2: here instead of teaming up with you on it.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to be black and white
Speaker 1: in terms of the strategy. I think that there could
Speaker 1: be many hybrid approaches, and I compare it to the
Speaker 1: food delivery business. For example, we work with Starbucks or
Speaker 1: McDonald's that has a direct app, and customers.
Speaker 3: Go direct to get the food there.
Speaker 1: At the same time they also participate in the marketplace.
Speaker 1: So I think the autonomous ecosystem will be the same way.
Speaker 1: There will be some kind of some customers going direct,
Speaker 1: and we think that with the Uber marketplace, we can
Speaker 1: bring the kind of demand that over two hundred million
Speaker 1: monthly active platform customers can bring to autonomous so that
Speaker 1: we get those cars on the road and incredibly busy
Speaker 1: with very high utilization.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the US as well, because you're partnering
Speaker 2: there with Weimo as well in certain cities. Perfect partner, Yeah,
Speaker 2: terrific partnering. Actually in the latest earnings I think you
Speaker 2: said excellent as well. But in some places Weimo is
Speaker 2: expanding into new cities without you and becoming a direct competitor.
Speaker 2: And that's something that was highlighted even by web Bush
Speaker 2: earlier this week as being a potential risk for your
Speaker 2: business next year.
Speaker 1: How are you assessing that Well, I think it's the
Speaker 1: same example that I gave you that in some ways
Speaker 1: the McDonald's app is a competitor to Uber eats and
Speaker 1: the two can co exist.
Speaker 3: And it's very very early.
Speaker 1: In the development of autonomous we have to make sure
Speaker 1: that we have access to autonomous technology in the major
Speaker 1: cities that have the right regulatory framework to allow autonomous
Speaker 1: and we're very confident as we look at our roadmap
Speaker 1: and we look at our partners, we have over twenty
Speaker 1: partners autonomous partners globally that we will have access to
Speaker 1: autonomous technologies in the large cities and markets that really count.
Speaker 2: When you say access to twenty different partners, do you
Speaker 2: think that that is the way that the industry will
Speaker 2: continue to evolve or do you expect consolidation on the
Speaker 2: robotaxi side as well or the autonomous driving software side.
Speaker 1: We're seeing is this is a trillion dollar plus market
Speaker 1: in terms of autonomous mobility. I think delivery eventually will
Speaker 1: be of a similar size. And when you have markets
Speaker 1: that are that large, you usually don't have winner take calls.
Speaker 1: It's the same way with these LLM models. There are
Speaker 1: many to choose from, whether it's an open AI or Gemini,
Speaker 1: and I think the same will be true of autonomous
Speaker 1: It's an exciting technology, but there are many players getting
Speaker 1: to the finish line. We just have to make sure
Speaker 1: that the players that we work with are safe and
Speaker 1: that again we're working with the regulators in constructive manner.
Speaker 2: Part of the strength of Uber, of course is your
Speaker 2: data mode and just how much information you're collecting on
Speaker 2: users and in the rise they're taking in their behavior patterns.
Speaker 2: But other competitors in the market like way more like
Speaker 2: tests are still continuing to build up that infrastructure as well.
Speaker 2: So how secure do you see that data mode being well.
Speaker 1: There's nothing secure about the technology space. There's always innovation,
Speaker 1: and so we just have to move fast and isa ashulely,
Speaker 1: the more important factor in Uber is our global coverage.
Speaker 1: We operate in seventy countries, the demand that we're bringing
Speaker 1: every day, We've got millions of consumers opening our app
Speaker 1: all over the world, and we can point that demand
Speaker 1: not just to our current driver partners and delivery partners,
Speaker 1: but as autonomous comes in to autonomous partners.
Speaker 3: You know, these are very.
Speaker 1: Expensive cars, it's a very expensive technology, and you want
Speaker 1: to amortize the upfront spen against as many transactions as possible.
Speaker 1: And Uber certainly is though leader around the world in
Speaker 1: terms of the demand that we can point to our
Speaker 1: autonomous partners.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you talk about capital and just general capital
Speaker 2: raising plan, an interesting move that you made earlier this
Speaker 2: year was raising one point two billion dollars by selling
Speaker 2: those exchange the senior bonds linked to your stake in Aurora.
Speaker 2: A few details in that one, but do you see
Speaker 2: yourself doing that again in twenty twenty six something similar
Speaker 2: again just to it was really seen as an innovative
Speaker 2: and creative way, I guess to raise money.
Speaker 1: Well, we have a very creative team. I think the
Speaker 1: good news for us is we're now free cash flowing
Speaker 1: close to ten billion dollars, and we expect that to
Speaker 1: increase substantially over the next couple of years. So through
Speaker 1: a combination of the substantial free cashow that we have
Speaker 1: and also monetizing some of the equity stakes that we
Speaker 1: have in other companies. Now it's over ten billion dollars.
Speaker 1: We think we have plenty of capital to be able
Speaker 1: to continue to invest in our autonomous technology partners or
Speaker 1: building out a fleet presence or vehicles across the autonomous
Speaker 1: ecosystem so that.
Speaker 3: We can continue to be a leader in the space.
Speaker 2: You're well capitalized. That's sort of taking away from that,
Speaker 2: But would you look to do something similar with your
Speaker 2: stakes in d D and GRAB in particular.
Speaker 3: I think we'll be opportunistic.
Speaker 1: Certainly, we love GRAB and it's a strategic partner of ours.
Speaker 1: D D of course hasn't gone public yet, so to
Speaker 1: the extent we have an opportunity, we will look to.
Speaker 1: You know, we call it recycling the investments that we've made.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, we don't need to do
Speaker 1: that because the company continues to.
Speaker 3: Throw off cash flow. We have a lot of options
Speaker 3: ahead of us.
Speaker 2: I want to talk about also the sparsa geography's strategy
Speaker 2: and the importance of that. Can you maybe spell it
Speaker 2: out a little bit for people exactly what you mean
Speaker 2: by that, because it is interesting as you make sort
Speaker 2: of a push into lots of different centers, it actually
Speaker 2: seems to be less the urban centers that are doing
Speaker 2: well for you as a company.
Speaker 1: Well, the urban centers continue to grow, but I do
Speaker 1: think that we as I reflect on Uber's growth, we
Speaker 1: used to be a big city company, and what we're
Speaker 1: seeing is there's enormous demand for both mobility and delivery
Speaker 1: outside of the large cities and the most sparse markets,
Speaker 1: the suburbs, et cetera. And our growth in the sparse
Speaker 1: markets is anywhere from two to three times faster for
Speaker 1: mobility and delivery than in the big urban markets, even
Speaker 1: though the urban markets are growing at the same time.
Speaker 1: Some governments actually need access to mobility. You know, there
Speaker 1: isn't great taxi service in some of these rural destinations
Speaker 1: in Japan. Bus services is also not readily available. So
Speaker 1: you know, as Uber, obviously we run a business, but
Speaker 1: we want to be there for stakeholders, and we want
Speaker 1: to help address some of the needs of the government
Speaker 1: in Japan in particular, rural transportation is a real need,
Speaker 1: and we wanted to step up and give back to
Speaker 1: Japanese society because that market has been such a great
Speaker 1: market for us. And that's what communal ride share in
Speaker 1: these rural destinations like Carga City is all about. I
Speaker 1: experienced it myself. The countryside is absolutely beautiful and you know,
Speaker 1: our driver was so thankful. Actually runs a soba shop
Speaker 1: that's on Uber Eats as well.
Speaker 3: He delivers for Uber Eats. He's a part of.
Speaker 1: Our ecosystem and it's amazing to see that happen not
Speaker 1: just in the big cities, but also in a lot
Speaker 1: of small cities and rural destinations.
Speaker 2: What do you make then for India in particular, because
Speaker 2: of course you'd be competitive there is rapid of and
Speaker 2: then they've been very successful with a slightly different operating model,
Speaker 2: but including going down into the lower tier or solar
Speaker 2: tier cities. How do you also stay competitive there and
Speaker 2: does that sparse a geography strategy also fit for India?
Speaker 3: Yeah, very much so.
Speaker 1: So with India really the fastest growing part of the
Speaker 1: Indian market is two wheelers and three wheelers, and the
Speaker 1: business model is different. Actually it's not a commission model,
Speaker 1: but it's actually subscript model as well. Rappido's a real
Speaker 1: upstart there, but over the past months we've been pushing
Speaker 1: back against them and India continues to be a hugely
Speaker 1: promising market for us, so we're very happy about the
Speaker 1: recent results that we're seeing.
Speaker 2: Dara, thank you much for joining us this morning. That
Speaker 2: was Dara Costrachahi there, the CEO at Uber in an
Speaker 2: exclusive interview