1 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on 2 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: the parties are divided in terms of the effect that 3 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: the stimulus is going to have. This inflation debate has 4 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 1: really been heaming up the effect of what the Biden 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: administration is spending on political capital. Bloomberg Sound on. The insiders, 6 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: the influencers, the insights, a group of centrists are the 7 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: key senators to watch. Jill Biden give number one focus 8 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,879 Speaker 1: in addition to the COVID health crisis being jobs. I 9 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: don't quickly have red roads and blue roads, and that's 10 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: the way we're looking at this. Schoomberg Sound on with 11 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: Devin sil on Bloomberg Radio. He's a running again. President 12 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: Biden's dominant domestic headline from his first press conference is 13 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: that he plans to seek re election. But then he 14 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: also said that he's not think in about two or 15 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: three years from now, so who knows. Plus the latest 16 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: on what he had to say about US China relations, 17 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: We've got an all star lineup fricking Ginor with me 18 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: plus Congressman John Kato, the top Republican on the House 19 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: Committee of Homeland Security and a member of the Transportation 20 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: and Infrastructure Committee as well. My name is Kevin Currellia. 21 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: I'm the chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg Television and for 22 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. The All Star Policy Panel, Rick Davis and 23 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 1: Jeannie shawan Zo are with me. We begin tonight with 24 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: the big story President Joe Biden's first press conference, and 25 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: he made a lot of news. He said he was 26 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: running for re election, and he also said that the 27 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: new vaccine goal is two hundred million shots in his 28 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: first one hundred days, up from the one hundred million 29 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: that he first called for. Take a listen to the 30 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: sound on the shots Damn City. The second goal we 31 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: will buy my one hundred day in office, have administered 32 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: two hundred million shots in people's arms. That's right, two 33 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: d million shots in one days. The dominant theme of 34 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: the press conference was immigration, but our very own Justine 35 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: Sink did ask the President about the U. S. China relationships. 36 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: Take a listen to what President Biden had to say 37 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: about Shijing pig. We're not looking for confrontation, although we 38 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: know there will be steep, steep competition. Two that will 39 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: have strong competition, but will insist in China played by 40 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: the international rules. They have an overall goal to become 41 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: the leading country in the world, the wealthiest country in 42 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,160 Speaker 1: the world, and the most powerful country in the world. 43 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 1: That's not gonna happen on my watch. He went on 44 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,239 Speaker 1: to say that he will try to hold China accountable 45 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: for its human rights violations. Take a listen to the 46 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 1: sound on that. No American president ever back down from 47 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: speaking out of what's happened in the weaker, which happened 48 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:06,399 Speaker 1: in Hong Kong, which happened in in in country, that's 49 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,679 Speaker 1: who we are. The moment of president walks away from that, 50 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: as the last one did, is the moment we began 51 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: to lose our legitimacy around the world. Joining us on 52 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: the telephone line as Congressman John Katko, he is a 53 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: Republican representing New York's twenty four congressional district. He is 54 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 1: the ranking member on the House Committee on Homeland Security 55 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:31,239 Speaker 1: and a member of the House Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure. Congressman, 56 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: great to talk with you again. You're analysis your analysis 57 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: President Biden's update on the relationship between the U S 58 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: and China. Well, I mean, if the President means what 59 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: he says is that they're going to take this whole 60 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: leaguers situation. Seriously, that Hill do what we were suggesting 61 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: that he do what he were doing, that is to 62 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: move to louis the Olympics, away from China and to 63 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: somewhere else because what's on the leaguers isn't just some 64 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: political conflict. It's genocide. And when is the last time 65 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: we had an Olympics in the country where there was genocide? 66 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: And so, if you know President Biden again, he has 67 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: great rhetoric, wonderful, just like on the day of the inauguration, 68 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: But how about imagine that rhetoric with action, and the 69 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: action would be to take a strong stand against China. 70 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: And do you do China is going to continue to 71 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: eat our launch on the world stage. And now you 72 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: know that China is playing a long ball, and we've 73 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: got to recognize that if we don't stand up to 74 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: the would be bullying in the world, then we're gonna 75 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 1: have a real hard time down the road. And they're 76 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: committing genocide against leaders. So President Biden, why don't you 77 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: take my suggestion and movie Olympics. So and you've been 78 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: one of the if not the leading Republican in the House, 79 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: especially on that Olympic issue, and many Republicans are are 80 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: following your lead on this. Um, are you bullish that 81 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: Democrats will start to echo those those cries? Um? I 82 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, there's an obviously there's a lot 83 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: of issues going on, and uh, you know the hotbush, 84 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: but the issue of the day is uh um um um. 85 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: You know what's going on at the border and the 86 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: president's press conference today and other issues. So uh, it's 87 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 1: hard for to get the attention of people on what's 88 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: going on in a foreign land. But just think of 89 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: the optics and we're setting our our young men and 90 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: women they are to compete in a country when just 91 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 1: on the road in the same country in the north 92 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: western provinces, they're literally committing genocide to one of a 93 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: group of one to three million people that are in 94 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: concentration camps and forced labor and forced sterilizations and forced 95 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: abortions and and and and forced labor. So it's really uh, 96 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 1: that's something I think we should really get on and 97 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: I hope all of us to get around it. And 98 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:42,919 Speaker 1: it's a follow up on that earlier this week at 99 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: a nomination hearing before the Senate Armed Services Committee. I know, 100 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 1: the other the other chamber Admiral John chamber Am I 101 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 1: allowed to say that, but it's where everyone's talking about, 102 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: especially without filibuster, which we'll get into this hour. But 103 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 1: John Aquilino, who's the Admiral John Aquilino. Uh, he was 104 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: asked about Taiwan, and I was really struck by this 105 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: Congressman Katko because he said that the the Chinese military 106 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: is much closer to trying to take over Taiwan and 107 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: that it is their quote number one priority end quote, 108 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: and that it is much closer to us his words 109 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 1: than most believe he used in a couple of years. 110 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: And I'm just curious from from from the briefings that 111 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:32,160 Speaker 1: you can share with US congressmen, how how close are 112 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: we is? Is that a viable prediction that the Taiwan 113 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: conflict could heat up in the short shorter term than 114 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: that most people realize. I know a lot of folks 115 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 1: are focusing on the on the North Korea missile issue, 116 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: but uh, it appears to be brewing in Taiwan as well. 117 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: I mean, there's no question at China this China's got 118 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 1: a long term goal of fifty year plan, if you will, 119 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: and I commend everybody to look at it and that 120 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: is really world domination. United States just wants peace with 121 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: the world. China wants to basically dominate the world. And 122 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 1: they they've been rattling their saber in the South China 123 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 1: see for for years now, and we took a tough 124 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: stance in the previous administration. And that's why I think 125 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: if they're kind of the bully in the room. And 126 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: when I was a federal organized crime prosecutor for twenty years, 127 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: the only thing the bad guys understood with strength. Anything 128 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: short of full strength with the with the bad guys, 129 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: they would take advantage of you, and they would they 130 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: would exacerbate the problem and they would ignore you. So 131 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: if we don't make a stand with China soon, what's 132 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: going to prevent China from going into Taiwan? You know, 133 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: I look at we kind of stood back and when 134 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: the bother that's had terrible human rights abuses in Hong 135 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: Kong and did nothing, We're doing nothing right now with 136 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: respect genified a committing against their own people. And then 137 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: to think that we're going to compound that by giving 138 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: China legitimacy in the world stage by having them uh 139 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: conducted Olympics with help us going on and I think 140 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: if we don't do something soon, that that's that's a 141 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: logical end of what could possibly happen, and that's what 142 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: really concerns me. Congressen is Rick Davis, thank you for 143 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: being on the program. Say very topical UH today on 144 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: China specifically, and we've heard from a lot of these 145 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:10,119 Speaker 1: combatant commanders who are up for confirmation in the Senate, 146 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: as Kevin pointed out, and uh in the commander for 147 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: the Southern Hemisphere also made comments in including that China's 148 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: insidious behavior in the region has contributed to a lot 149 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: of instability, including the promotion of organized crime groups throughout 150 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: the region. And I find there seems to be a 151 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: little bit of bipartisan interest in some of the things 152 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: that that that the Biden administration are talking about visa 153 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: of each China, which is, you know, reigniting our supply 154 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: chain management, creating a domestic capability um uh. Support for 155 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: our our allies, the twenty seven European our national heads 156 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: of state to have a actually a summit on democracy. Uh. 157 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: Do you find that those are the kinds of things too, 158 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,400 Speaker 1: in addition to the Olympics that you're talking about that 159 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: you could support, of course, of course, so this is 160 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: supply chain is a very vague homeland security matter. As 161 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,319 Speaker 1: far as I'm concerned, and being the ranking member in Homeland, 162 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,079 Speaker 1: I see this firsthand. Think about it when when I 163 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: was when I was growing up in Syracuse, New York. 164 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: Here right down the road had Crystal Myers. That factory 165 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: in Syracuse produced um A sixty sevent of our nation's penicilla. Virtually, 166 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: no penicilla is produced in the in the United States anymore. 167 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: In the vast majority of the penicillan or component parts 168 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,079 Speaker 1: for the penicillana is coming from China, and that is 169 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: a supply chain problem. When we had a pandemic, we 170 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 1: literally had to have what we call a modern day 171 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: air bridge, which is similar to the Blue Lan airlift, 172 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: to just have a planeload upon planeload upon planeload of 173 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: personal protective equipments flown in from China and other countries 174 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: because we didn't have our supply chain. No one said 175 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 1: we closed ourselves off to the rest of the world. 176 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: But I think from this pandemic we need to learn 177 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: that for that from a national security standpoint, we need 178 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 1: to start bringing some of those industries back home just 179 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: in case there is a conflict on the road. At 180 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 1: least we'll be secure in the in the basics that 181 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: we need. Manufaction is good example as well representative. It's 182 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:09,959 Speaker 1: geniez No. It's very good to talk to you. I 183 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 1: want to talk about another issue that the President mentioned 184 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: during his press conference quite a bit because he was 185 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: asked a lot, and that's immigration. Um. The President has 186 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: been under fire for some of his rhetoric here, even 187 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: some Democrats saying he hasn't stated clearly enough that people 188 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,199 Speaker 1: should not come to the border, and today he was 189 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: trying to make the case that they're not coming because 190 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: he's nice or empathetic, but for other reasons. Can I 191 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 1: interrupt you before you ask you a question, because you've 192 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: got sound on that, not to interrupt you if it's 193 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,959 Speaker 1: a highlight your question that we have sound on that. 194 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: So let's let's take a listen to it, and then Jeanne, 195 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: go ahead. When when we're done, of all the children 196 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: are coming across the border over either sixteen or seventeen 197 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: years old, we're not talking about people ripping babies from 198 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: mother's arms or a little three year old stand on 199 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: the border. Go ahead, Yeah, And that's exactly the point 200 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: he kept making over and over again and represented what 201 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you. Were you at all satisfied 202 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: that he had cleaned up some of this rhetoric um 203 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: and that he had made the case um as emphatically 204 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:11,439 Speaker 1: as as some people are calling on the administration to 205 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: do that people should not come to the border. Yeah, 206 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: I don't think he has. And I'll tell you why. 207 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 1: First of all, I'm gonna make an observation and masonally 208 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: being down at the border and that things I saw. 209 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: But then I'm going to read you a quote and 210 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 1: it's not from me. But first of all, you know 211 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:27,559 Speaker 1: what I saw down at the border. My intel is 212 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: very clear. I prosecuted cartels on the border in the 213 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 1: mid nineties and I'll pass all Texas starting out my 214 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: career as a federal prosecutor, and um, I can tell 215 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: you that nobody goes across the border without their in perimeter, 216 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: and they the cartels are making an unbelievable amount of money. 217 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: In February was estimated that the cartel has made about 218 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: fourteen million dollars per day. And we got into intelligence 219 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: down there that they they're coming across and not being tested, 220 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: being released into the country. Um, but I've being touched 221 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: for for the coronavirus. UM. They they kind of stumbled 222 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 1: into the admitting to us that some people coming across 223 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: the border on the terror watch lists, that they have 224 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: apprehended people doing that. People are coming across and droves. 225 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 1: Once the President issued as executive orders willing back everything 226 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: frump did uh to try and secure the border and 227 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,559 Speaker 1: stop the surgeries. And they were working. And it's a 228 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: fact when you talk to the cartel folks down there 229 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: and the experts on the cartels, the cartels are taken families, 230 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: they are splitting them up at the border, and they're 231 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: bringing people that are parts of the cartels and others 232 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: across the border with these kids. So kids are being 233 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: separated at the border to facilitate illegals coming back into 234 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 1: the country. And people coming into the country are not 235 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 1: just people here to make a better life. There's people 236 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: that have been uh previously departed for sexual sexual crimes 237 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: and violent crimes and what have you. So with all 238 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:53,959 Speaker 1: that is back from let me just read you this. 239 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,599 Speaker 1: Expectations were created that the government of President Biden, with 240 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: the government of President Bid that they were to be 241 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: a better treatment of migrants, and this has caused Central 242 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,719 Speaker 1: American migrants wanting to cross the border thinking it is 243 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 1: easier to do so. That wasn't me, That wasn't a Democrat, 244 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 1: that was a Republican. That was the president of Mexico. 245 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,719 Speaker 1: I think about that. The President of Mexico said, and 246 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: this has caused Central American migrants and also from our 247 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 1: country wanting to cross the border thinking it is easier 248 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,959 Speaker 1: to do so. So for all their attempts to try 249 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,079 Speaker 1: and lay this at someone else's feet, it just doesn't 250 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: hold water. Because even the President of Mexico, he has 251 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: every incentive to try and finished. I'm sorry, it's every 252 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: incentive to try and get along with the new new 253 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,719 Speaker 1: administration has said this in this observation. So that's that 254 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: speaks honest to me. Congressman cat goes with this final question, 255 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: even so generous with your time. He's the top Republican 256 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: on homeland security. What do you want the business community 257 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,199 Speaker 1: to do on this issue, because you know, I know 258 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 1: there's a lot of business folks listening and small businesses 259 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: as well, you know, the Silicon Valley types as well 260 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: as the Wall Street crowd on the main street crowd. 261 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: They have been activated on the immigration issue. And it's 262 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: obviously a heated political discourse, but talk to me about 263 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: what the what what do you feel the business community 264 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: should be doing from that perspective, police, if I was 265 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: a CEO and I had a civic mindedness about me, 266 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: I would be saying, Okay, we're spending hundreds of millions 267 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: of dollars a month on the border and and s 268 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: going to increase. We just got a contract for any 269 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: four million dollars for hotel rooms for our illegals coming 270 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: in because it's so so bad. How about security boarder 271 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: way it was, And let's take that money and let's 272 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: feed the kids in our own country on American citizens 273 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: who go to bed hungry every night. I know people 274 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: go to bed hung every night in my district, and 275 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: I know they do across this great country. I know 276 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: a lot of kids get all their meals from school 277 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: or they don't get anything at all. So let's try 278 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: and help them poor children at our country and have 279 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: uh and get some humanity back to our immigration because 280 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: the only way to stop the human crisis that's going 281 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: on at the border is that is call back to 282 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: where we were and get people are coming to this 283 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: country the right way, so they'll learn the false halt 284 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: that they can run across the border and have a 285 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: better life than all Right, Congressman, I kept you past time, 286 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: so I appreciate you making the time for us. Uh, 287 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: and appreciate that extended pastime. That's Congressman John Katko. He's 288 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: a Republican representing New York's twenty four congressional district. Look, 289 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,479 Speaker 1: I mean, Ricky just said the word humanity and immigration. 290 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: You see those images. I thought, actually Kristen Welkner's question 291 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: from NBC News where she asked him about the transparency 292 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: and access to to some of these facilities, was a 293 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: really you know, not to pick of. I thought that 294 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: was a really profound moment to be to be frank 295 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: with you. Um, And I mean these images are just 296 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: you don't even you can see them in your mind. 297 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: I mean, I know we're on radio, but they're they're 298 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: horrifying wreck. Yeah, and it's very tough, Kevin for the 299 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: bide demonstration, specifically President Biden, to characterize this in any 300 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: other way. But I know they don't want to call 301 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: it a crisis. But um, regardless of what the motivations are, right, 302 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: whether they are, as a congressman said, you know, a 303 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: an effort by the cartels to penetrate this country and 304 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: and to use this kind of a feature, or as 305 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: President Biden said today, um, you know, a desperate attempt 306 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: by families, especially those in places like guatemal and her 307 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: her not wherever Central America to UH to come into 308 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: the United States because they've been persecuted and and and 309 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: and or economically disadvantaged. Regardless, he tried to put on 310 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: a good face, but this is a this is the 311 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: first big crisis within his administration, on top of all 312 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: the other initiatives that frankly have been relatively positive to 313 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: date on his battle against COVID UH and UH and 314 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 1: I and I think he's learned a lesson today in 315 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: his UH in his press conference that it's not going 316 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: to go away. Well, yes, and Jeannie, was this a 317 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: missed opportunity for President Biden? In terms of there was 318 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: I don't have the minute by minute breakdown. I was 319 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: trying to keep tabs of it, but I couldn't. In 320 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: terms of the time that he spent talking about immigration, 321 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 1: I didn't hear him taking the opportunity to discuss what 322 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: he's gonna do to bring back manufacturing jobs, what he's 323 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 1: gonna do to uh, you know, for the middle class, 324 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,479 Speaker 1: for the lower middle class. I mean, it's almost as 325 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: if they passed the stimulus and now they're done talking 326 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: about the middle class economy. And and candidly, I don't 327 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: think that's a smart strategy, not that I'm in the 328 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: strategy business, but to me, do you do you think 329 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: that it was a missed opportunity to talk about how 330 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,920 Speaker 1: all of this connects to the middle class America. He 331 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: needed to do that. As we all watched he he 332 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: came out, his opening remarks were focused the way they 333 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: should have been, on vaccinations, on school openings, on COVID relief. 334 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: And yet I was struck by the fact that not 335 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: one question came to him as far as I heard, 336 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 1: dealing with the pandemic, COVID relief. It was almost like 337 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: people were done with that. I totally agree with you. 338 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: I totally agree with you. And and when there are 339 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: millions of Americans and millions of families who were without 340 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: who were unemployed, millions of middle aged Americans who have 341 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: lost their job, who are trying to figure out if 342 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: their kids can go to school, I thought it was. 343 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: It was a missed opportunity by both the Fourth State 344 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: and President Biden. What do I know? I agree with 345 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: you and you know on immigration. Let's also say, while 346 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: he's the most empathetic person and and does a great 347 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: job focusing on the humanitarian issue, I think progressives are 348 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: listening hard. He didn't accomm at to your point about 349 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 1: Welker's question. He didn't say when reporters get access that 350 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: was great, that was a great question, was a great question. 351 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: He never gave a deadline for that. He didn't say 352 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: talk about eliminating child detention facilities, and no when to 353 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: Title forty two. So on some of those specifics, he 354 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: was very much in line with the Trump administration. I 355 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: think that causes problems with progressives as we or at 356 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: least with people who are concerned about immigration, which is 357 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: a lot of people on the left. Part of what 358 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: happens when you don't hold a press conference for administration 359 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: now smart and your bucket is completely full of these issues. Right. 360 00:18:57,800 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: He hasn't let any of the air out of the 361 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 1: tire prior to this, and so there was there was 362 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:04,920 Speaker 1: a plethora. Now it was a big newsday. I grant 363 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: you that, but it was partly big because he let 364 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: all this stack up, and so instead of handling the 365 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: two or three really most important questions of the day. 366 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: You know, he had incoming in from geopolitical questions about China, 367 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,440 Speaker 1: North Korea, you know, uh, Russia. You had all this 368 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,159 Speaker 1: stuff domestically about the COVID relief and jobs, and in 369 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 1: the economy, you had all this technology stuff going up 370 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: on the hill. I mean like he let himself get 371 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 1: overtaken by uh not being more excessible. The biggest winner, 372 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: the biggest winner of today were the tech CEOs who 373 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,199 Speaker 1: got who got drowned out by the and and literally 374 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: we I was watching on Bloomberg Television as we were 375 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 1: monitoring that, and that crossed over to the press conference. 376 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to what's going to drive the 377 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: cable shows tonight, which is Caitlyn Collins of CNNs her 378 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 1: question on whether or not he's gonna seek a second term. 379 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 1: CBS also asked him about it, but it's this uh exchange. 380 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: Take a listen to that here this You also just 381 00:19:57,920 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: made some news by saying that you are going to 382 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 1: on for re election. I said, that is my expectation. 383 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 1: So is that a yes, that you are running for 384 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,880 Speaker 1: re election. Look, I don't know where you guys come from. Man, 385 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 1: I've never been able to travel. I'm a great respector 386 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 1: of fate. I've never been able to plan four and 387 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: a half three and a half years ahead for certain 388 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: And if you do, if you do run, will Vice 389 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 1: President harrisy on your ticket? I would fully expect that 390 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: to be the case. She's doing a great job. She's 391 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: a great partner. She's a great partner. And do you 392 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 1: believe you'll be running against former President Trump? Oh? Come on, 393 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: I don't even think about I don't. I have no idea. 394 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 1: I have no idea what it will be a Republican party? 395 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: Do you? I know you don't have to answer my question, 396 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: but I mean you know, do you vick your analysis? Well? Uh, 397 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: the the news of the death of the Republican Party 398 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,440 Speaker 1: maybe a little exaggerated today. What about him? I because 399 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 1: I don't hear when I heard that, Do you, when 400 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: you hear that answer, feel that he has said on 401 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: that he's running? You know? Look, I mean any speculation 402 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: about a president who has made a decision run for 403 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 1: a second term is premature, no matter what whether the 404 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: president makes it because he feels good about his chances, 405 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 1: like Donald Trump did he basically announced he was running 406 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: for a second term the day after his inaugural and 407 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: and or Joe Biden, who hasn't said anything publicly, but 408 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: you know, Frankly got caught. I mean, everybody expects a 409 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 1: sitting present to run for re election. The only reason 410 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: this is a big news item is because of Joe 411 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 1: Biden's age, and he can't he can't run from that, 412 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 1: and so I think he did what he had to do. 413 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 1: But again, this is not something you wanted to be 414 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 1: in your first press conference. But do you think he 415 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: answered the question as well as he could? I mean, 416 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: there's no there's no real answer to that. I mean, 417 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: you could say, look, I'm for sure I'm running because 418 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: I don't want to be a lame duck. If he 419 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:49,479 Speaker 1: said he wasn't gonna run, he'd be a lame duck 420 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: the day he said it. And so he didn't sound definitive, 421 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 1: did he, Jeanie, Well, no. One. Part of it is 422 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: because he himself during the campaign seemed back and forth 423 00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: on this issue, and many of us suspected he'd be 424 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 1: a one term president and all of a sudden today, 425 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: which is another reason I agree with Rick. But another 426 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 1: reason it's big news is because there's a lot of 427 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: people who were under the impression this was it for him, 428 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: not not just his age, because he himself had indicated 429 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,200 Speaker 1: at certain points that was probably the case. He left 430 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: Wiggle him and and and as a reporter, I gotta 431 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 1: call it like I see it, And he left Wiggle 432 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: verm on this, and to me it was he's leaning 433 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 1: towards running. If I had to do an analysis, he's 434 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: leaning towards running. But leaning towards running has policy implications, 435 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 1: just as it does with him suggesting that he's moving 436 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: towards leaning towards abolishing the filibuster in some way, shape 437 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: or form. The reason this matters and I get it. 438 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: The Twitter verse is going to say, why are obsessed 439 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,479 Speaker 1: if he's running he's not even done the first one days? 440 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 1: Why Because his relationship with the progressive part of his 441 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: party and the Democratic Caucus is now going to be 442 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: under a microscope if he plans to seek a second term, 443 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 1: whether or not, he is challenged from the left on 444 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: a host of different issues that are that he wants 445 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 1: that he has outlined as are a part of his 446 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,719 Speaker 1: policy menu agenda. All of that now comes into focus 447 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: and and candidly when you're on the global stage and 448 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: you've got in April meeting with shi Jing Ping, they 449 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: global leaders are going to be looking to see whether 450 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: or not the United States is going to have just 451 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,159 Speaker 1: a blip on the radar with one term or a 452 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 1: longer term scenario. I don't know, I was to me. 453 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: I was completely shocked that that answer. Go ahead. Joe 454 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,719 Speaker 1: Biden President United States is seven eight years old. Two 455 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: years from now when the decisions made, he'll be eight. 456 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 1: No eighty year old is ever going to run for 457 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: president United States? Rick Davis? Really, this is Bloomberg. I 458 00:23:42,960 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 1: love it, broadcasting live from our nation's capital, Bloomberg to 459 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: New York, Bloomberg eleven Frio to San Francisco, Bloomberg to 460 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: the country, Sirius XM General one ninety and around the 461 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:20,920 Speaker 1: globe the Bloomberg Business app and Bloomberg Radio dot Com. 462 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Sound On with Kevin Sireli coming on next. 463 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,639 Speaker 1: It's our big tech Ken. We have a conversation with 464 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: Denver Riggleman. What's even up to? My name is Kevin Sili. 465 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: I'm the chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg Television and for 466 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio, accompanied by none other than Rick Davis and 467 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: Jeannie shan Zano, the Bloomberg Politics contributors. You know, we 468 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: made light of it earlier, but it's it's true. I mean, 469 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 1: the president's press conference today completely overshadowed what would have 470 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: been a dominant business story domestically, which is the big 471 00:24:55,160 --> 00:25:00,040 Speaker 1: tech CEOs Facebook, Twitter, and Google. They all test to 472 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: fight again virtually the Capitol Hill. Uh, let's take a 473 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,439 Speaker 1: listen to some sound on some of the hearing, because 474 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: they actually just wrapped like a minute ago. Um, and 475 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: they were going around all day. But the uh, Mark 476 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: Zuckerberg and Jack Dorsey and a Sundart Pecai. They answered 477 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: renewed inquiries about the content moderation policies from members of 478 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: two House Energy and Commerce subcommittees during a virtual hearing 479 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: examining social media's role in promoting extremism and disinformation. Some 480 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 1: lawmakers also asked pointed questions about the negative impact of 481 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 1: the company's products on children. Take a listen to this 482 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: exchange from Congresswoman Jan Schakowski, a Democrat from Illinois, with 483 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,360 Speaker 1: Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg. Here's the sound on that. Well, 484 00:25:54,600 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 1: you admit today UM that Facebook groups and particular UM 485 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:06,960 Speaker 1: played a role in the UH and flementing the extremism 486 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:11,120 Speaker 1: that we saw and that led to the capital siege. Congishwoman, 487 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 1: I think certainly there was content on our services and 488 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,200 Speaker 1: UM and and from that perspective, I think that there's 489 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 1: further work that we need to do to make our 490 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: services and moderation more effective. We did our part to 491 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: secure the integrity of the election, and then on January six, 492 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: President Trump gave a speech rejecting the results and calling 493 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: on people to fight. I believe that the former president 494 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: should be responsible for his words and that the people 495 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 1: who broke the law should be responsible for their actions. 496 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: I stand corrected, as our All Star executive producer Christine 497 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,679 Speaker 1: Baratta just pointed out, maybe it's a Delco thing. Christine, 498 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 1: I said, Illinois, it's Illinois. Or maybe I just been 499 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: saying it wrong my whole life. Anyway, Uh, you know, 500 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 1: Rick Davis, you hear that exchange. I mean, every time 501 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,199 Speaker 1: something goes wrong, it seems big tech is is UH 502 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: having to face some really tough questions. We didn't see 503 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 1: much market movement though off of the headline risk that 504 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 1: they incurred today. Yeah, Kevin, this was a different kind 505 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: of hearing. It really did seem to gravitate more toward uh, 506 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 1: the sensational events around uh January six than what you 507 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: would consider sort of real reform around UM section to 508 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: thirty or privacy or competition and I trust issues uh 509 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: and so uh and and you mentioned Earli in the program, 510 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: and I thought it was the most astute thing. Is 511 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: with with President Biden's press conference, nobody even heard what 512 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,360 Speaker 1: was going on on Capitol Hill today. So I think 513 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 1: there's still a lot of wood to chop around the 514 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 1: tech sector. And I think these um, these heads of 515 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: these big tech companies are this is the first salvo 516 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: for the year. They're under attack by both Republicans and Democrats, 517 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: and they can anticipate doing this all year long. Genny, Well, 518 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 1: I'm just grateful you're not asking no question because that 519 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,159 Speaker 1: was one of the the as a sidebar thing that 520 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: they were being cut off these executives pretty regularly by 521 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: these congress women and congressmen UM and Jack Dorsey was 522 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 1: even tweeting the yes and no. But you know, I 523 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: think it's very clear that there is one area of 524 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,199 Speaker 1: agreement amongst the Republicans and Democrats on this. They are 525 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 1: all ready to regulate tech. But what is unclear to 526 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: Rick's point is how there wasn't a lot of specifics 527 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: where are they going to go, for instance, on section 528 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: two thirty, All of that remained unclear in my mind. 529 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,719 Speaker 1: And on that clip you just played by Zuckerberg, UM 530 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,120 Speaker 1: fascinating that he I'm not fascinating. He's defending what Facebook 531 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: did in the election, but he turned his focus not 532 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: only on former President Trump, but also on the traditional 533 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 1: news media, saying, hey, look at these guys too, they're 534 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: carrying false information. They should be held upoundable. And yet 535 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: this is the same guy who doesn't want to be 536 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: identified as a media outlet. So to me, there was 537 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,680 Speaker 1: some you know, explanation to be to be sort of 538 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: teased out there, and I don't believe they followed up 539 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 1: on that. Well, there is another exchange with Congressman Mike Doyle, 540 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: a Democrat from Pennsylvania, along with the CEOs. Here's the 541 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 1: sound on that. I want to start by asking all 542 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: three of you, um if your platform bears some responsibility 543 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: for disseminating disinformation related to the election, and to stop 544 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: to steal movement that led to the attack on the capital. 545 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: Just a yes or no answer, Mr Zuckerberg, Chairman. I 546 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: think our responsibility is to build systems that can help. 547 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: Mr I just want to know answer. Okay, yes or no? 548 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: Do you do bear some responsibility for what happened? Congressman, 549 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: Our responsibility is to make sure that we build effective systems. 550 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,479 Speaker 1: Business is not to answer the question, Mr Pacha, yes 551 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: or no. We always made a deep sense of responsibility. 552 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: But I think we worked hard. Uh. This election effort 553 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 1: was one of our most substantive efforts. Is that a 554 00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: yes or no? Uh, Congressman's a complex question. We okay, 555 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: we'll move on. Mr Dorsey. Yes, but you also have 556 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 1: to take in the consideration of broader ecosystem. It's not 557 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: just the technology platforms were used. There you go, Jennie, 558 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: that was it, and and you know, granted, I understand 559 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: what the congressman is doing, but it was repeated throughout 560 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: the hearing. I heard much of the hearing today, and 561 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 1: it was repeated to the to the point where Dorsey was, 562 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: as I mentioned, tweeting about it. So you know, I'm 563 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: not sure it's an easy yes or no question, But 564 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: they did want that, and of course they were also 565 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: asked yes or no had they seen social dilemma? And 566 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 1: I had a hard time believing too out of the 567 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: three had not seen that when I've seen it, and 568 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: I'm the slowest person on the even netput shows rick. 569 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: In terms of policy, did you glean anything new from 570 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: this hearing? Yeah, that they've added fuel to the fire 571 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: on in Congress, both sides, House and Senate, both party, 572 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 1: Republican and Democrat, to the effort to amend UH, if 573 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: not withdraw to thirty. I mean, this is really an 574 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: important issue for them, and I didn't think the performance 575 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: by the tech sector executives or UM the substance that 576 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: they put on the table was going to delay that debate. 577 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 1: So more coming on that, more coming on other issues 578 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 1: we've talked about, but UH today, I think the lines 579 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 1: were drawn to sand What you heard in these responses 580 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: to UH. To Congressman Doyle was lawyers talking right, don't 581 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 1: admit to any fault, don't admit to being culpable. There 582 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 1: are investigations going on and and I get that, totally understand, 583 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 1: but the fun is about to begin for them all right, 584 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: coming up, we continue this conversation with former Virginia Congressman 585 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: Denver Riggleman. Uh lots to talk about. I'm Kevin Surreley. 586 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: This sis Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Sound On with Kevin 587 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: Shirley on Bloomberg Radio. We're talking Sack. I'm Kevin Surreley, 588 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: Chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg Television and for Bloomberg Radio. 589 00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: Accompanied by the Bloomberg Policy All our panel, Rick Davis, 590 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: Jennie sean Zo, always a pleasure, always felt gratitude. Joining 591 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: us on the line is Denver Riggleman. He's a former 592 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: Republican Congressman from Virginia. He's now the chief strategist at 593 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 1: the Network Contagion Or Research Institute, which is a neutral 594 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: and independent third party whose mission it is to track, expose, 595 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: and combat misinformation, deception, manipulation, and hate across social media channels. 596 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: No doubt you were plugged into the hearing today your analysis. 597 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: Ha ha ha. First of all, I don't know if 598 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 1: Congress Kevin is up to the challenge to ask the 599 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: questions that needs to be asked on a huge level 600 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: from what I was hearing today. And you know what 601 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 1: scares me about this is that we have these different 602 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 1: areas of thought, whether it's regulation, whether it's making these 603 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 1: individuals into a utility um, whether it's somehow UM controlling 604 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: what they're saying by completely redoing section to thirty or 605 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: getting rid of section to thirty, or manipulating section two thirty. 606 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: And really what it comes down to is I don't 607 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 1: know if any of those on their own is up 608 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 1: to really fighting this contagion of misinformation and disinformation that's traversing, 609 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: you know, the inner webs. And I used interwebs purposely 610 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 1: as a military joke. But that's the issue that we have, 611 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: right Kevin. And you know, there was two people there, 612 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: and I want to make sure I get to your questions. 613 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 1: But what I can is go over to specific lines 614 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: of questioning if you want me to, Kevin. But really 615 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: what it comes down to is I think we need 616 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: a public trust. I think we need something akin to 617 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 1: the c d C, something maybe we call the Centers 618 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 1: for Disinformation Defense. And we need a more open architecture 619 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 1: where you have maybe some kind of independent audit or 620 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: some way to identify what disinformation is out there, and 621 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: you need to skull drag uh these disinformation peddlers into 622 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,719 Speaker 1: the sunlight. So how how far off are we from 623 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: even tackling that. What would the legislative vehicle be for 624 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 1: that or would it require executive action? Well, you know, 625 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,480 Speaker 1: the legers lay a vehicle for this would actually be 626 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 1: a revamp of Section to thirty and And there's a 627 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,239 Speaker 1: couple of bills out there, Kevin, that you guys might 628 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 1: want to pay attention to. One is by Tom Alanowski, 629 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: which is looking about protecting UH. I would say protecting consumers. 630 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,920 Speaker 1: I can't think it's protecting consumers with Algorithms Act or 631 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 1: something like that, But what it's looking at is our 632 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 1: big tech companies. Are they responsible if they have algorithms 633 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: that are aggressive and push people to do bad things 634 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 1: to radicalize them. Also on the democratic side, I think 635 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,320 Speaker 1: it's Mark Vessey was looking at some kind of independent 636 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: auditing trail or independent auditing group that is overseen by 637 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: Congress to look at what disinformation is actually being pumped out. 638 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: And I believe their hearts are in the right place, 639 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 1: but that there's a cascading effect there that could be 640 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 1: very dangerous Kevin, and and uh, listen, this is a 641 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,760 Speaker 1: huge technical conversation. I don't want to dominate these answers. 642 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: I'm not here to film buster you guys, but this 643 00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 1: is a long thing. It's much more than yes or no. 644 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: And we have we have Google hiring private contractors that 645 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 1: are pushing people to other sites on keyword searches where 646 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: they have they actually have relationships that are independent, and 647 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,760 Speaker 1: they're pushing people away from radical websites into other radical 648 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: websites because they don't understand how this works. And that's 649 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,800 Speaker 1: what scares me. We would have big tech it doesn't 650 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 1: understand the complexities of trying not to push people to 651 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 1: radical websites. This is a huge morass and what we need, 652 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,840 Speaker 1: I think, is a public trust c d D centers 653 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,800 Speaker 1: for Disinformation Defense that can actually try to identify the 654 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 1: disinformation actors and publish it right not only to the 655 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: big tech actors, but also to the public at large. 656 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 1: I think that's the first step before we look at 657 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: technical legislation. You know, I wanted to ask you a 658 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: question because I gotta tell you're the first guest that 659 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: I've ever been on the radio with who's ever used 660 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 1: the term skull drags, So kudos to you. I think 661 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 1: that's an excellent one. But you know, you were outspoken 662 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: in Congress about people who were talking about stealing the 663 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 1: election and election fraud, and you called bs on that. 664 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,879 Speaker 1: You said, hey, look, this is not the appropriate way 665 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 1: to handle a post election period of time, and and 666 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 1: and to some degree you were that way throughout your 667 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: entire time in Congress, and and and paid a price 668 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 1: for that. But do you think it's at all um? 669 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,800 Speaker 1: I would say obvious to some of those uh members 670 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 1: of Congress who participated in that activity of undercutting the 671 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,360 Speaker 1: election results when they sat in Congress today and listened 672 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 1: to the testimony about misinformation realizing they were part of 673 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: that initiative, that's that's the issue. Gosh, that's a great question, 674 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:39,880 Speaker 1: because I was talking to something about the data, like, 675 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 1: how do you how do you if you said, right 676 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,360 Speaker 1: you you did not believe the election was valid, or 677 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 1: you refused to recognize the electors, or you know, you 678 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 1: had all these issues where you think election integrity needs 679 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,840 Speaker 1: to be you know, identified, and it needs to be 680 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 1: worked on it by the way, I'll let you guys 681 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 1: do there's real issues. However, election integrity right now is 682 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: a cover term for sty to steal. So that's why 683 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,239 Speaker 1: this is such a great question and listening to that 684 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: today the questions being asked by certain individuals. Were there 685 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:12,400 Speaker 1: very people that were sort of victims of disinformation or 686 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,280 Speaker 1: were willing participants. And it's really it's really mind blowing. 687 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: You know that you're doing this, and and then when 688 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 1: you see that bias right, you see the bias on 689 00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:23,839 Speaker 1: the right or the left, and and the biases are there, 690 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 1: but the right, the far right is having a hole 691 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,279 Speaker 1: of my beer moment um. The issue that you have 692 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: is you have something like a Morrigan Griffith right, who 693 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:34,880 Speaker 1: I think asked some of the best questions at the end. 694 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,279 Speaker 1: Uh was one of those individuals who did not think 695 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,080 Speaker 1: that the elector they needed to do something about the 696 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,840 Speaker 1: electors or there were some issues with electioned integrity. But 697 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 1: then those biases come into play when you have Google 698 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 1: hiring a company that's pushing people right, it's a it's 699 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,399 Speaker 1: a group called Moonshot, it's a private contractor that are 700 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,719 Speaker 1: pushing people to a guy who called themselfs a Southern 701 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,720 Speaker 1: anarchist that was arrested in two thousands several of Russian 702 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 1: nationals through aliens smuggling and also has said that Israeli 703 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:05,319 Speaker 1: should be executed because it matched their keywords that they 704 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 1: were looking at for an anarchist on the left, and 705 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,640 Speaker 1: they pushed people that were doing those kind of terms 706 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 1: on the right, like Q and on Um Army, Hugh Shaman, 707 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,600 Speaker 1: and they didn't even know they were being redirected to 708 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: the southern anarchist right YouTube videos. Were you saying that 709 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 1: cops are bad and that they're thugs and a thugs 710 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,160 Speaker 1: should meet a thugs end or something like that. I mean, 711 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,320 Speaker 1: this is this is this is why this is so 712 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 1: complex and and that's my problem, guys, is that I 713 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 1: know this so well. There's no simple answer. There's no 714 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: yes or no answer. There has to be a combination 715 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,480 Speaker 1: of a public trust, government oversight, and there's got to 716 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 1: be integrity in these companies. If one of those failed, 717 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:45,400 Speaker 1: this whole thing is a sham, and it's metastasized globally. 718 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,560 Speaker 1: This means with everybody has to row in the same direction, 719 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 1: and right now there's still so much politics and bias 720 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,680 Speaker 1: baked into this. I'm not that encouraged. Denver. I agree 721 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 1: with you. There's no easy answers here. And you know 722 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,320 Speaker 1: what Bernie Sanders kind ing out recently and saying he 723 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,800 Speaker 1: was uncomfortable with Twitter having the power to remove the 724 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 1: President of the United States, whether you like him or not, 725 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 1: from Twitter is something I think a lot of us 726 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,920 Speaker 1: are sensitive to. And as I'm listening to some of 727 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:17,279 Speaker 1: these ideas being bandied about, there's a similar sort of 728 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,279 Speaker 1: uncomfortable nous, which is the idea that on the one hand, 729 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 1: social media companies have the final say on what is 730 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 1: or what is not the truth. Alternatively disinformation auditing by 731 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,239 Speaker 1: the government, and the government has the final say on that. 732 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:33,919 Speaker 1: So where is sort of a middle ground in your 733 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: mind that we could come to. We're on the one hand, 734 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:38,680 Speaker 1: there can be you know, we can be sensitive to 735 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 1: public safety. But on the other hand, we don't have 736 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,480 Speaker 1: either the government or big tech companies deciding what we 737 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:46,320 Speaker 1: can and cannot say and what is or what is 738 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,360 Speaker 1: not the truth? You're quote you guys should have been 739 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,640 Speaker 1: asking questions today, By the way, Um, those are the 740 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,880 Speaker 1: questions that needed to be honestly um and and and 741 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 1: if I was sitting on the other end on this 742 00:39:57,640 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 1: one instead of asking the questions, I would say this, 743 00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders is correct, uh, and and not just correct 744 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,560 Speaker 1: on censorship, guys, what he's correct on also which he 745 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,920 Speaker 1: doesn't know, but he's correct on Also, if you d platform, 746 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,120 Speaker 1: if your censor every single thing that you think, and 747 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,439 Speaker 1: I think you mentioned it about social media decision making, 748 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 1: if you censor or deep platform everything you think is 749 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 1: not inside your bias line, right inside your bias plane 750 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,399 Speaker 1: or your bias chamber. If you do that, not only 751 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 1: you need platforming people that may be are dangerous. Your 752 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,799 Speaker 1: deep platforming people that are actually having open communications. Second thing, 753 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,840 Speaker 1: if your d platform those people, guess what happens to 754 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,560 Speaker 1: people like me who are trying to do open source 755 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,560 Speaker 1: collection and looking at where disinformation is. They go to 756 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,120 Speaker 1: encrypted channels, Kevin, you know, they go to encrypted channels. 757 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,440 Speaker 1: And that's the issue that we have is that Bernie's right, Well, 758 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:52,319 Speaker 1: we gotta leave it there right. I'm sorry, Kevin, No, no, no, don't. 759 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,160 Speaker 1: I wish I had more time. I always wish to 760 00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,880 Speaker 1: have more time with with with Riggleman and and Genie 761 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,520 Speaker 1: and Rick and it's it's a great conversation, you know, 762 00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,880 Speaker 1: Unfortunately we're out of time. Congress former Congressman dun Rigleman. 763 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:06,200 Speaker 1: Always great to catch up with you, my friend. Let's 764 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 1: talk soon, um. And it is women's history month and 765 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:14,080 Speaker 1: every day we are spotlighting an important American who has 766 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,640 Speaker 1: contributed to the uh betterment of of female empowerment. And 767 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:22,560 Speaker 1: here with today's installment as Bloomberg, ernudly young on this 768 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:26,200 Speaker 1: day in Women's History in nineteen sixty seven, record breaking 769 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,640 Speaker 1: figure skater Debbie Thomas is born in Poughkeepsie, New York. 770 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,800 Speaker 1: She grew up in San Jose, California, where she started 771 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,000 Speaker 1: her ice skating career at five years old. While she 772 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 1: was young, her mom drove her over a hundred miles 773 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:42,040 Speaker 1: a day between home, school and the ice rink. In 774 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,960 Speaker 1: three Thomas joined the Los Angeles Figure Skating Club, and 775 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 1: three years later she won both the US national title 776 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:53,800 Speaker 1: and World championships, becoming the first female African American figure 777 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 1: skater to do so. During many of her career wins, 778 00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,800 Speaker 1: Thomas was a full time college student at Stanford You 779 00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:04,600 Speaker 1: to Versity on a premit track. In Thomas made Olympic history, 780 00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,479 Speaker 1: becoming the first black athlete to ever win a medal 781 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,360 Speaker 1: at the Winter Games, earning a bronze medal in figure skating. 782 00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:15,320 Speaker 1: That's today in women's history. I'm rened a young Bloomberg 783 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:19,000 Speaker 1: Radio and that does it for me. I'm Kevin Sireli 784 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,839 Speaker 1: on behalf of our producer Matthew Shirley and our executive 785 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:27,080 Speaker 1: producer Christine Barrata. I want to thank you for listening, 786 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 1: and of course our thanks to Rick and Jeanie on 787 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,120 Speaker 1: the All Star Policy Panel. This is Bloomberg.