WEBVTT - Holiday Inventions: Christmas Tree Lights, Tinsel and Angels

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, the production of

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<v Speaker 1>My Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow

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<v Speaker 1>your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick.

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<v Speaker 1>And I was gonna say that it's almost Christmas time,

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<v Speaker 1>but I don't know exactly what day this episode is

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<v Speaker 1>going to be airing. We haven't fully worked that out yet.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's sometime within a couple of weeks of Christmas, right,

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<v Speaker 1>well Christmas Day, but certainly it falls within the month

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<v Speaker 1>of December or like the three month radius of surrounding December.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's Christmas, right, It's the holidays. Bells will be ringing,

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<v Speaker 1>meaning doorbells with deliveries because that's uh, that's the kind

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<v Speaker 1>of Christmas that's going on this year. Yep, yep, the

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<v Speaker 1>supply chain straining holiday season. Yes, um so, yeah, you

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to talk about some Christmas related invent chins, and

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<v Speaker 1>I gotta say we turned up some surprisingly weird and

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<v Speaker 1>funny stuff on this subject. I was pleasantly surprised with

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<v Speaker 1>where this went. Yeah, last year, in the Invention feed

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<v Speaker 1>Back when Invention was its own podcast, we focused on

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<v Speaker 1>some popular toys, where they came from, how they were

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<v Speaker 1>invented things that went under the tree. This year, all

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<v Speaker 1>of the inventions were discussing are things that go on

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<v Speaker 1>the tree? Which is uh and and yeah these It

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<v Speaker 1>turned out to be quite interesting. Do you have a

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<v Speaker 1>tree up right now, Joe? We do. It is fake.

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<v Speaker 1>It is made primarily of petroleum products. So, uh, what

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<v Speaker 1>was once ancient organisms floating in the seas have settled

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<v Speaker 1>down and become oil and now they are plastic and

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<v Speaker 1>they're in my home and they make it festive. Oh nice, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>we too have our tree up. It is a a

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<v Speaker 1>live tree, or at least one that was was alive

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<v Speaker 1>at some point and it was cut free from the earth.

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<v Speaker 1>And uh so yeah, now it is in my living

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<v Speaker 1>room and I run a hose in from outside to

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<v Speaker 1>give it more water every day or so you were

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<v Speaker 1>you always a live tree person or was that a transition.

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<v Speaker 1>I've just always been a fake tree family my whole life.

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<v Speaker 1>We were always a live tree family and we would

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<v Speaker 1>do this thing. I think this is something my family

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<v Speaker 1>picked up in Canada and then continue to do. And

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<v Speaker 1>that is for a for the tree stand. Instead of

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<v Speaker 1>having an actual tree stand, we had a bucket of rocks,

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<v Speaker 1>so you'd put the tree stump in the bucket and

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<v Speaker 1>then you put big sizeable rocks around it, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>to fill it up, but there's still space for water,

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<v Speaker 1>and then we'd pour water in and uh, I think

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<v Speaker 1>we did that till one year the tree tipped over

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<v Speaker 1>and rocks and water went everywhere. And then they decided, well,

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<v Speaker 1>let's let's see about getting an artificial tree, and then

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<v Speaker 1>they made the switch. But uh, I've done both here

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<v Speaker 1>in my own household. Um. I mean, you know, it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's a trade off, right like, because the there's a

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<v Speaker 1>nice smell to the to the fresh cut tree. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>but then you have to pick up the needles, you

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<v Speaker 1>have to inevitably do a little song on it to

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<v Speaker 1>make it function in your house. So I don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>I can go either way. I think conceptually I'm very

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<v Speaker 1>much a live tree person. I've just never in actuality

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<v Speaker 1>been one. That's that's the power of habit and the

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<v Speaker 1>power of family tradition, right Like, if you were to

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<v Speaker 1>present me these options afresh, as if you know, I'd

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<v Speaker 1>never celebrated Christmas before, I would definitely go live tree.

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<v Speaker 1>But now I think I'm going to be plastic to

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<v Speaker 1>the grave. I used to like the idea of doing

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<v Speaker 1>a small tree because if you do a small little tree,

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<v Speaker 1>it's less less work. Right, But now we have all

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<v Speaker 1>of these, We've accumulated all of these these family heirloom decorations,

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<v Speaker 1>so you know we've got to put those on the trees.

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<v Speaker 1>You gotta have a large enough tree to hold them.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a very good points as the ornaments that come

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<v Speaker 1>as Christmas gifts that people give you when they don't

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<v Speaker 1>know what else to give you for Christmas, as they

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<v Speaker 1>accumulate over the seasons, they really do start weighing down

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<v Speaker 1>those branches. Alright. So, like I said, everything that we're

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<v Speaker 1>discussing this episode, all the inventions are things that go

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<v Speaker 1>on a Christmas tree. So we really need to lay

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<v Speaker 1>the groundwork, especially for our first invention, Christmas tree lights

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<v Speaker 1>electric Christmas tree lights. Now we always discussed what came before. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, obviously we have to talk about just the

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<v Speaker 1>origin of the Christmas tree as much as we understand it. Um. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>if a couple of different ways to consider this. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>you can think about the the use of control fire

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<v Speaker 1>itself for ceremonial purposes. Uh, this has a role in

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<v Speaker 1>every culture but here we're talking more specifically about the

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<v Speaker 1>use of illumination technology combined with the form of a

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<v Speaker 1>tree or an actual tree. Now I know I read

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<v Speaker 1>a legendary account. Something tells me this this might not

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<v Speaker 1>be necessarily true. But a legendary account involving Martin Luther

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<v Speaker 1>and the origins of lighting up a Christmas tree. Um. So,

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<v Speaker 1>so this story, I guess would post date the invention

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<v Speaker 1>of the Christmas tree itself because it assumes there's already

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<v Speaker 1>a tree inside the house. But the story is that

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<v Speaker 1>Martin Luther is out wandering one night, the Protestant reformer

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<v Speaker 1>Martin Luther. I'm sure he's uh, he's composing in his

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<v Speaker 1>mind some extremely scatological screed against the pope. And then

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<v Speaker 1>he's wandering and he sees trees, and he sees the

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<v Speaker 1>stars behind the trees, twinkling and shining through the branches,

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<v Speaker 1>and he's like, oh, how could I recreate that at home?

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<v Speaker 1>And the idea he comes up with is, well, let's

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<v Speaker 1>put a bunch of candles in the branches of this evergreen. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a beautiful story, but as far as I can tell,

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<v Speaker 1>it's just a story, just made up. Yeah, much like

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<v Speaker 1>another story, another myth concerning St. Boniface thwarting a pagan

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<v Speaker 1>ceremony and somehow turning it into a Christmas tree. Again.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, it makes for a cool origin story, but

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<v Speaker 1>there's nothing to it now. There's certainly you get into

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<v Speaker 1>the myth making about the origin of the Christmas tree. Like.

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<v Speaker 1>Another thing to keep in mind is that we have

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of what you can think of as auxiliary traditions. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>For instance, in England, prior to the use of Christmas trees,

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<v Speaker 1>there were fifteenth and sixteenth century traditions involving bringing holly

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<v Speaker 1>and ivy and during the winter and doing things with

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<v Speaker 1>holly and ivy. They are dreadic traditions concerning mistletoe and

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<v Speaker 1>we've explored those on the podcast before The winter may

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<v Speaker 1>pole tradition has also some similarities according to historians. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>the general ideas that you could find something that was

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<v Speaker 1>green in the wintertime, some kind of evergreen branch, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>if it was pine needles or or holly or something,

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<v Speaker 1>and you'd bring that into the home around the winter

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<v Speaker 1>solstice and the green decoration would help distract the family

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<v Speaker 1>from the barren misery that is winter time. But Christmas

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<v Speaker 1>tree traditions themselves, where you'd actually cut down an evergreen

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<v Speaker 1>tree and then bring it inside the house, or at

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<v Speaker 1>least put it somewhere near the house or in the

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<v Speaker 1>barn or in the home. Uh. That appears to begin

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<v Speaker 1>among German speaking people's maybe around the sixteenth century. That again,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a little complicated because that seems to emerge from

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<v Speaker 1>similar older traditions. But but the Christmas tree itself looks

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<v Speaker 1>like it it comes around the fifteen hundreds. And this

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<v Speaker 1>was not the only Christmas decoration tradition among German speaking

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<v Speaker 1>people's at the time. Another German classic was what came

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<v Speaker 1>to be known as the Christmas pyramid, though this name

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<v Speaker 1>comes after Napoleon's adventures in Egypt. Uh. It's not strictly

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<v Speaker 1>a pyramid like the ones at Giza. You've seen this before.

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<v Speaker 1>It's sort of a tapering miniature tower with platforms populated

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<v Speaker 1>by angels with trumpets and other critters of that stripe.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a little diorama. Okay, I you know, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know that I've seen this. I think I've seen pyramid

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<v Speaker 1>type constructions where they use point seta plants and kind

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<v Speaker 1>of arrange them like that. But I think one thing

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<v Speaker 1>you could do when you're building your Christmas pyramid is

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<v Speaker 1>put some evergreen branches on it, you know, kind of

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<v Speaker 1>spruce it up and like, oh it's maybe it's not winter.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's something green. Yeah. And then of course slay all

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<v Speaker 1>the servants who helped you erect it and placed them

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<v Speaker 1>under the under the pyramid, right scoop the brains out

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<v Speaker 1>of the angels through the nose. Yeah. Yeah, oh man,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, an ancient Egyptian themed Christmas tree would actually

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<v Speaker 1>be quite lovely. I'm not sure if you would put

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<v Speaker 1>at the top maybe a cyrus. Maybe you could put

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<v Speaker 1>in the sun disc. I don't know. There's there's so

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<v Speaker 1>much you could do. Now I want to make one,

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<v Speaker 1>except that I would not be permitted to do that. Now.

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<v Speaker 1>I was looking more into the uh, the history here

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<v Speaker 1>the tree, and you you pointed to the sixteenth century

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<v Speaker 1>origins in Germany, and certainly that seems to be when

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<v Speaker 1>it was. We can really point to it and say like,

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<v Speaker 1>here is the Christmas tree tradition in action. But I

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<v Speaker 1>was also reading from a book by Judith Flanders, Christmas

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<v Speaker 1>Say Biography. She's a historian and writer with a specialty.

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<v Speaker 1>Her main especially, I think is Victorian history, and she

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<v Speaker 1>says that we can we can think of of many

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<v Speaker 1>of these earlier traditions as again precursors to the Christmas Tree,

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<v Speaker 1>and an association that had been forged between winter traditions

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<v Speaker 1>and the tree we're already growing around this time, especially

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<v Speaker 1>in Germany. The origins, she says, seemed to take us

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<v Speaker 1>back to the early fifteenth century. In Germany, there are

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<v Speaker 1>records of a fourteen nineteen decorated tree in Friedburg decorated

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<v Speaker 1>with apples, flower paste wafers, tinsel and gingerbread flower paste wafers.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh boy, so Flanders points to documented traditions of paradise

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<v Speaker 1>plays performed at the time and performed around Christmas. They

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<v Speaker 1>use They would have used an evergreen fur with apples

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<v Speaker 1>tied to their branches in place of the Tree of

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<v Speaker 1>Knowledge a k a. The Tree of the Knowledge of

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<v Speaker 1>good and Evil, which of course is important to Judeo

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<v Speaker 1>Christian traditions and tied to the world tree myths in general. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>So in the paradise play, this would be reproducing the

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<v Speaker 1>the the myth of the Garden of Eden, where Eve

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<v Speaker 1>is tempted by the serpent to eat of the tree

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<v Speaker 1>of the knowledge of good and evil, which Adam and

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<v Speaker 1>Eve have been forbidden from from partaking of. They can

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<v Speaker 1>eat of the tree of life, and that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>live forever, but they can't know what's right and wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>And and once they eat of the fruit, then they

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<v Speaker 1>realize they're naked, and all kinds of bad stuff happens.

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<v Speaker 1>God gets very angry. Yeah, it's a it's a whole scene,

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<v Speaker 1>trust me. But at any rate that this would have

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<v Speaker 1>been a tree standing in to represent that mythic tree,

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<v Speaker 1>and the decorations would have included wool thread against straw apples,

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<v Speaker 1>things like nuts and pretzels and pretzels. Yeah, pretzels, which

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<v Speaker 1>makes sense, right, You can make things out of pretzels,

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<v Speaker 1>make curious shapes and all. It sounds good and also

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<v Speaker 1>feels authentically German. This brings up a question I was

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<v Speaker 1>talking about with Rachel recently, and something about this has

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<v Speaker 1>me still a little bit steaming. Are you not supposed

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<v Speaker 1>to eat a gingerbread house. I'm getting mixed signals about

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<v Speaker 1>what the whole deal with the gingerbread house is, because

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<v Speaker 1>if you're not supposed to eat it, why are you

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<v Speaker 1>making it entirely out of edible foods. Uh. I guess

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<v Speaker 1>that's a redundancy out of edible things. And if you

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<v Speaker 1>are supposed to eat it, why is it treated I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know, I'm very confused. Well, I guess part of

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<v Speaker 1>it is that it's not just you know, cookieer cake,

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<v Speaker 1>it's load bearing cookier cake. Right. Um. Yeah. I was

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<v Speaker 1>always told you were making a gingerbread house, but you

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<v Speaker 1>can't eat it because the gingerbread is obviously just sitting

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<v Speaker 1>out on the table and is not fit for consumption

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<v Speaker 1>at this point. You know, when you turn the lights

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<v Speaker 1>off at night, you go to bed, and you nestle in,

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<v Speaker 1>and you nestle in and get all cozy, the roaches

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<v Speaker 1>come out. They crawl all over the gingerbread house, so

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<v Speaker 1>they eat little bits off of it, and then they

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<v Speaker 1>scurry away in the morning. So if you go and

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<v Speaker 1>take a bite, you just know who you're eating after exactly. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that's that's all a good reason not to trust it,

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<v Speaker 1>unless I guess you're very controlling with your gingerbread house.

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<v Speaker 1>It goes into the refrigerator when you're not using it.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I could see that as working and that

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<v Speaker 1>could be fun, but otherwise you don't eat the house.

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<v Speaker 1>You eat them men. You eat the gingerbread men. Voiced

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<v Speaker 1>by Gary Busey. Yeah, alright, So this tree is becomes popular.

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<v Speaker 1>In fact, it becomes so popular it out last the

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<v Speaker 1>popularity of these paradise plays, and it becomes this holiday tradition.

0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:07.800
<v Speaker 1>It is the it is the Christmas tree. It is

0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:11.840
<v Speaker 1>the the vi Knox bomb. So Flanders rights of the

0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:15.559
<v Speaker 1>oldest Christmas tree market was apparently in Strassburg, just over

0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:19.200
<v Speaker 1>the current German border in France in the seventeenth century,

0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:22.640
<v Speaker 1>and Flanders points to the first decorated indoor Christmas tree

0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:27.480
<v Speaker 1>as being is being tied to sixteen o five. Again,

0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:30.240
<v Speaker 1>the decorations seemed to include things like apples and sweets,

0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:34.080
<v Speaker 1>and they became quite popular in the Strasburg region with

0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:36.839
<v Speaker 1>Actually there were fifteenth century laws put in place at

0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:39.959
<v Speaker 1>one point to limit the number of trees per household. Oh,

0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:41.960
<v Speaker 1>this is not the last place we're going to encounter

0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:45.439
<v Speaker 1>laws regulating Christmas trees. Yeah, I mean people, you know,

0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:48.160
<v Speaker 1>they get upset about the War on Christmas, But wars

0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:50.400
<v Speaker 1>must be waged against Christmas to keep it from getting

0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:53.680
<v Speaker 1>out of control, because it will. This is a centuries

0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:58.760
<v Speaker 1>long tradition. Yeah. Now, speaking of the traditions though, uh,

0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:01.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, we we often expect here in the United States. Uh,

0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:05.240
<v Speaker 1>and and certainly in England. You think of it as being,

0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:08.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, firmly rooted in English speaking people's right. But

0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:11.920
<v Speaker 1>the tradition didn't actually travel from Germany to England till

0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:15.319
<v Speaker 1>the final quarter of the eighteenth century. Flanders points to

0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.880
<v Speaker 1>the Gurton novel The Sorrows of Young Werther from seventeen

0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:22.360
<v Speaker 1>seventy four, which was translated into English and includes a

0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:26.440
<v Speaker 1>description of a tree not only with organic decorations, but

0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:28.960
<v Speaker 1>with lights. So I had to I had to look

0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:31.760
<v Speaker 1>it up, and you can find this text in full

0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:36.720
<v Speaker 1>on the internet. And but it here's the juicy part. Quote.

0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:40.640
<v Speaker 1>He began talking of the delight of the children and

0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:43.120
<v Speaker 1>of that age when the sudden appearance of the Christmas

0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:46.760
<v Speaker 1>tree decorated with fruits and sweetmeats and lighted up with

0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:51.880
<v Speaker 1>wax candles causes such transports of joy. The tree lighted

0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:54.800
<v Speaker 1>up with wax candles is going to cause such transports

0:13:54.840 --> 0:14:00.000
<v Speaker 1>of something. Yes, So another big thing that was involved

0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:03.760
<v Speaker 1>in the transfer of the Christmas tree tradition to England

0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:06.800
<v Speaker 1>in seventeen eighty nine, the German wife of George the

0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:09.880
<v Speaker 1>third suggested they erect quote an illuminated tree according to

0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:14.000
<v Speaker 1>the German fashion, and and so you see it making

0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:18.040
<v Speaker 1>the leap over into England. Now, as for the Christmas

0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:21.320
<v Speaker 1>tree in North America, this is interesting. Flanders rights that

0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:23.760
<v Speaker 1>it may have been here in North America as soon

0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:27.560
<v Speaker 1>as seventeen eighty six. Quote in North Carolina that year,

0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:31.200
<v Speaker 1>a member of the Morovian Brethren accused an apprentice of

0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:33.880
<v Speaker 1>cutting down a small pine tree on Christmas Eve, the

0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:38.440
<v Speaker 1>day on which trees were customarily erected in Germany. Interesting,

0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:41.600
<v Speaker 1>and there's also evidence of one in Georgia in eighteen

0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:44.920
<v Speaker 1>o five. So this is this is interesting. We often

0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:48.720
<v Speaker 1>think of of of things sort of you know, establishing

0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:51.280
<v Speaker 1>themselves in England and then becoming a thing here in

0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:53.680
<v Speaker 1>the United States. Uh, you know. But of course there

0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:57.440
<v Speaker 1>were people from from various European countries coming into North America.

0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:00.920
<v Speaker 1>So it ultimately makes perfect sense that the Christmas tree

0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:03.120
<v Speaker 1>would arrive here around the same time or even a

0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:07.000
<v Speaker 1>little earlier. Well. Yeah, so, based on what I've reading,

0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:10.120
<v Speaker 1>it seems like Christmas trees really started making their way

0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:14.040
<v Speaker 1>to the United States being brought with German immigrants, not

0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:17.160
<v Speaker 1>not so much coming directly from England, though a few

0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:21.000
<v Speaker 1>people in England were trying to to pick it up. Um,

0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:24.160
<v Speaker 1>it looks like the German immigrants would bring them in

0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:27.880
<v Speaker 1>the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, but they weren't taken up

0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:30.840
<v Speaker 1>as readily among the general population as you might imagine.

0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:35.840
<v Speaker 1>And there was basically a history of religious discrimination against

0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:39.280
<v Speaker 1>Christmas trees and other types of Christmas celebrations. After all,

0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:43.000
<v Speaker 1>many of the early settlers of eastern the eastern North

0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:47.960
<v Speaker 1>American colonies were English Puritans, who most of the time

0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:50.280
<v Speaker 1>were not fans of the sort of you know, be

0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:54.160
<v Speaker 1>steel pagan implications of a hallowed tree. You know, they

0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:55.600
<v Speaker 1>were thinking, like, if you're going to put a tree

0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:57.760
<v Speaker 1>up in your house, why not just celebrate Christmas by

0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:02.560
<v Speaker 1>having a decapitation contest night. Uh so, And a few

0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:06.000
<v Speaker 1>examples of this William Bradford, you know, the king of

0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:10.640
<v Speaker 1>the Puritans, the pilgrim governor of the Plymouth Colony. He

0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:14.479
<v Speaker 1>was famous slash infamous, depending on your point of view. Apparently,

0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:19.800
<v Speaker 1>in one instance Bradford just went ballistic and chewed out

0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:22.880
<v Speaker 1>a bunch of people in the Plymouth Colony for trying

0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.720
<v Speaker 1>to take the day off on Christmas. So you know,

0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:28.880
<v Speaker 1>Bob cratchit's out in the street hanging out on Christmas morning,

0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:33.920
<v Speaker 1>and Bradford sees him and just his eyes glow red. Uh.

0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:37.760
<v Speaker 1>And so he's writing incredulously that instead of working, he

0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:41.200
<v Speaker 1>found people on Christmas Day quote in the street at

0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:45.720
<v Speaker 1>play openly, some pitching the bar and some at stool

0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:49.720
<v Speaker 1>ball and such like sports. And he regarded these celebrations

0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:53.080
<v Speaker 1>of Christmas as some kind of quote, pagan mockery of

0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:56.280
<v Speaker 1>God and the spirit of Jesus. So I think Bradford's

0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:58.360
<v Speaker 1>idea of Christmas is you go to work and then

0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:01.480
<v Speaker 1>maybe you go to church, but you do not decorate,

0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:04.200
<v Speaker 1>you do not play, you do not take the day off,

0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:08.200
<v Speaker 1>you do not sing. That that is all satanic mischief. Yeah,

0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:11.320
<v Speaker 1>he really sounds like the Grand here. Yeah, totally. And

0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:14.080
<v Speaker 1>there were some other examples that I found cited in

0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:16.600
<v Speaker 1>a in a history dot com article I was reading

0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:18.680
<v Speaker 1>called the history of Christmas Trees. So one of them

0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:21.960
<v Speaker 1>was about Oliver Cromwell, not in the colonies, but back

0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:25.119
<v Speaker 1>in England, English Puritan leader, one of the victors of

0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:28.320
<v Speaker 1>the English Civil War and becoming Lord Protector. He he

0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:32.280
<v Speaker 1>did not like what he called the heathen traditions of

0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:37.399
<v Speaker 1>things like Christmas carols, or decoration of trees or you know,

0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:40.320
<v Speaker 1>running around acting Mary, that that was all kind of

0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:44.080
<v Speaker 1>desecration of what he called the sacred event of Christmas.

0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:48.120
<v Speaker 1>Um And this article also says quote in sixteen fifty nine,

0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:51.960
<v Speaker 1>the General Court of Massachusetts enacted a law making any

0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:55.240
<v Speaker 1>observance of December twenty five other than a church service

0:17:55.560 --> 0:18:00.119
<v Speaker 1>a penal offense. People were fined for hanging decorations. The

0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:04.320
<v Speaker 1>stern solemnity continued until the nineteenth century, when the influx

0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:08.560
<v Speaker 1>of German and Irish immigrants undermine the Puritan legacy. Oh man,

0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:12.520
<v Speaker 1>this this is rich again, especially when you look at

0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:16.800
<v Speaker 1>some of the like legitimate angst that emerges around you know,

0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:21.520
<v Speaker 1>so called wars on Christmas and so forth today. Well

0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:23.919
<v Speaker 1>it's this is funny because while I was reading about this,

0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:27.199
<v Speaker 1>looking at for these historical sources, I also just happened

0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:31.719
<v Speaker 1>to stumble across like fundamentalist Christian blogs called things like

0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:36.520
<v Speaker 1>Christmas Tree truths and stuff like that. They're still railing

0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:39.919
<v Speaker 1>against Christmas trees as a as a trapdoor into some

0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:44.040
<v Speaker 1>kind of covert Satanic mass it was. Yeah, that that's

0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:46.800
<v Speaker 1>a whole corner of the internet that is worth exploring. Yeah,

0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:50.040
<v Speaker 1>Christmas trees are just a gateway to find joy and

0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:53.560
<v Speaker 1>other Satanic concepts. Yeah, but so by the mid to

0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:56.360
<v Speaker 1>late eighteen hundreds there there had been a real transition.

0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:59.760
<v Speaker 1>By the late eighteen hundreds, Christmas trees started becoming popular

0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:02.960
<v Speaker 1>in homes throughout the United States, not just among German

0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:07.000
<v Speaker 1>immigrants and their descendants. Christmas became a federally recognized national

0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:09.160
<v Speaker 1>holiday in eighteen seventy I think that was signed into

0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:13.320
<v Speaker 1>law by Grant. And so, of course, as Christmas and

0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:17.480
<v Speaker 1>Christmas trees became more mainstream, and you know, you're not

0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:20.440
<v Speaker 1>necessarily part of an immigrant community who has a centuries

0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:24.000
<v Speaker 1>long tradition of how exactly to festoon the branches, you know,

0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:27.080
<v Speaker 1>going back to your grandparents and all that, the question

0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:30.000
<v Speaker 1>is going to become, how do you decorate this thing? Well,

0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:33.080
<v Speaker 1>you know, we're talking about Christmas tree lights, so the

0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:37.000
<v Speaker 1>immediate predecessor to electric Christmas tree lights, it's of course

0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:41.880
<v Speaker 1>going to be candles accentuated. This is interesting. I hadn't

0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:44.800
<v Speaker 1>really thought about this, but accentuated by special glass beads

0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:47.919
<v Speaker 1>that were strung around the tree. H Flanders mentioned this,

0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:52.960
<v Speaker 1>pointing out that check glassblowers specialized in these. Not only

0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:55.399
<v Speaker 1>were they beautiful, but they were they were something, they

0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:57.679
<v Speaker 1>were actually something on the tree that would not burn

0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:01.960
<v Speaker 1>if things got out of control. Uh. Because of course

0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:05.360
<v Speaker 1>fire is a big risk when you're talking about decorating

0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:09.679
<v Speaker 1>a tree with little candles, and it's it's actually, you know,

0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:13.080
<v Speaker 1>I knew this innately, like that's dangerous. That sounds like

0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:16.600
<v Speaker 1>an out of control fire waiting to happen, But I

0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:19.359
<v Speaker 1>hadn't really thought about all the various ways in which

0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:23.080
<v Speaker 1>it is dangerous. Uh. Flanders points out that that, first

0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:25.960
<v Speaker 1>of all, with candle lights and hearth fires in general,

0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:29.400
<v Speaker 1>fire was just a much greater daily risk back then.

0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:33.199
<v Speaker 1>But then you had these little candles wired or tied

0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:38.399
<v Speaker 1>the individual tree branches, which again in and of itself dangerous.

0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:42.320
<v Speaker 1>But then as the candles melt their weight altars and

0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:44.520
<v Speaker 1>uh and so so that's going to alter the tilt

0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:47.680
<v Speaker 1>of the branch that they're fixed to. UM, and that's

0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:50.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, potentially move moving that little ball of fire

0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:52.840
<v Speaker 1>around and putting it in contact with other branches and

0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:56.600
<v Speaker 1>decorations and things. On top of that, wax is dripping

0:20:56.640 --> 0:21:00.520
<v Speaker 1>down from these candles onto lower branches, and and and

0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:04.560
<v Speaker 1>uh in in increasing their weight as well. So the risks,

0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:07.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, go way beyond merely you know, a situation

0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:10.679
<v Speaker 1>of candles balanced in a dried out tree, it becomes

0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:14.239
<v Speaker 1>a moving system to contend with with with branches, with

0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:19.399
<v Speaker 1>one candle slowly moving up branches beneath, slowly dipping down

0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:25.000
<v Speaker 1>with accumulating wax um. It's frightening. Yeah, so, Flanders writes, quote.

0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:28.760
<v Speaker 1>A series of innovations and contrivances designed to hold each

0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:31.840
<v Speaker 1>candle in place with greater stability appeared over the years,

0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:35.080
<v Speaker 1>but a lit tree was never a safe tree. Many

0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:39.080
<v Speaker 1>households lit their candles only once on Christmas Eve, prudently

0:21:39.160 --> 0:21:42.120
<v Speaker 1>keeping the hand water and a stick with a sponge

0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:45.280
<v Speaker 1>on the end of it. Um, which sounds great, like

0:21:45.359 --> 0:21:47.840
<v Speaker 1>that that should be like a Christmas character, that should

0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:50.760
<v Speaker 1>be like have its own decoration, like the the sponge

0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:54.920
<v Speaker 1>stick guy for putting out the tree fire. Calls to

0:21:54.960 --> 0:22:00.640
<v Speaker 1>mind weird associations with the crucifixion scene and the sponge.

0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:06.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah alright, so obviously again this is terribly dangerous situation,

0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:10.720
<v Speaker 1>but it is the immediate predecessor to the electric Christmas

0:22:10.760 --> 0:22:15.840
<v Speaker 1>tree lights, so this we can basically look back to

0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:19.440
<v Speaker 1>the late eighteen hundreds on this one. In eighteen eighty two,

0:22:19.480 --> 0:22:23.879
<v Speaker 1>the Edison Illuminating Company built the world's first electrical power station,

0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:26.960
<v Speaker 1>and four months later they lit up a Christmas tree.

0:22:27.359 --> 0:22:30.280
<v Speaker 1>It consisted of eighty red, white, and blue bulbs and

0:22:30.359 --> 0:22:33.199
<v Speaker 1>was installed in the home of Edward H. Johnson, an

0:22:33.240 --> 0:22:37.440
<v Speaker 1>inventor and Edison's business partner. But at this point electricity

0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:40.600
<v Speaker 1>was simply not established enough for regular folks to get

0:22:40.640 --> 0:22:43.399
<v Speaker 1>in on the action. This was a special tree, so

0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:46.639
<v Speaker 1>it was only for special events and places such as

0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:51.080
<v Speaker 1>an electric tree erected in the children's ward of the

0:22:51.119 --> 0:22:55.040
<v Speaker 1>New York City Hospital or in the White House put

0:22:55.080 --> 0:22:57.320
<v Speaker 1>up an electric tree. This would have been Grover Cleveland's

0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:01.240
<v Speaker 1>White House. Hundreds of multicolored electric bulbs. According to the

0:23:01.280 --> 0:23:05.160
<v Speaker 1>Library of Congress. Some historians credit this tree was spurring

0:23:05.200 --> 0:23:09.480
<v Speaker 1>the acceptance of indoor Christmas tree lights. Okay, but still

0:23:09.840 --> 0:23:13.360
<v Speaker 1>you had to be either rich or an electricity nut,

0:23:13.400 --> 0:23:15.520
<v Speaker 1>or I guess ideally both to have this sort of

0:23:15.600 --> 0:23:18.760
<v Speaker 1>lighting set up at that time. According to the Library

0:23:18.800 --> 0:23:22.080
<v Speaker 1>of Congress, a light to light. An average Christmas tree

0:23:22.119 --> 0:23:25.280
<v Speaker 1>with electric lights before nineteen o three would have cost

0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:29.439
<v Speaker 1>something like two thousand dollars in today's dollars. But but

0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:32.240
<v Speaker 1>then at the turn of the century, General Electric buys

0:23:32.280 --> 0:23:35.160
<v Speaker 1>out Edison, and in nineteen o three they begin offering

0:23:35.440 --> 0:23:41.400
<v Speaker 1>pre assembled kits of Christmas lights. Okay, sorry, I'm trying

0:23:41.440 --> 0:23:45.240
<v Speaker 1>to imagine. So one of the things that predated electric

0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:50.919
<v Speaker 1>lighting indoors and homes was you would have gas supplied lamps, right,

0:23:50.960 --> 0:23:53.800
<v Speaker 1>so you'd actually kind of like the wiring in today's home.

0:23:53.840 --> 0:23:56.800
<v Speaker 1>You'd run gas pipes up through the walls and they'd

0:23:56.800 --> 0:23:59.080
<v Speaker 1>have a little output where you could attach a lamp,

0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:02.119
<v Speaker 1>and that they would be powered indoors, Could you have

0:24:02.200 --> 0:24:05.720
<v Speaker 1>a gas powered Christmas tree? Set? The gas pipe runs

0:24:05.800 --> 0:24:08.000
<v Speaker 1>up the trunk and then it goes out through some

0:24:08.040 --> 0:24:10.560
<v Speaker 1>of the branches. They're just pipes around through them, and

0:24:10.600 --> 0:24:13.639
<v Speaker 1>then they're just lamps all up and down. I like

0:24:13.800 --> 0:24:17.320
<v Speaker 1>this idea of an unholy gas punk Christmas tree. Um

0:24:17.359 --> 0:24:19.240
<v Speaker 1>I did not. She does not mention it as being

0:24:19.240 --> 0:24:22.119
<v Speaker 1>a reality. But man, there's gotta be some wacky and

0:24:22.400 --> 0:24:26.199
<v Speaker 1>inventor who who tried it and exploded. If not, I

0:24:26.280 --> 0:24:29.520
<v Speaker 1>really just doubt the ambition of inventors in the eighties.

0:24:31.840 --> 0:24:34.639
<v Speaker 1>Um So anyway, they put out this kit, and a

0:24:34.720 --> 0:24:37.320
<v Speaker 1>Fleming quotes the brochure that comes with it. It says,

0:24:37.680 --> 0:24:41.400
<v Speaker 1>quote miniature incandescent lamps are perfectly adapted to Christmas tree lighting.

0:24:41.480 --> 0:24:43.560
<v Speaker 1>The element of danger I have a present with candles.

0:24:43.560 --> 0:24:46.359
<v Speaker 1>It's entirely removed, as well as the inconvenience of grease,

0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:49.080
<v Speaker 1>smoke and dirt. The lamps are all lighted at once

0:24:49.119 --> 0:24:51.359
<v Speaker 1>by turning off a switch, will burn as long as

0:24:51.359 --> 0:24:55.040
<v Speaker 1>desired without attention, and can be readily extinguished. No stick

0:24:55.080 --> 0:25:00.320
<v Speaker 1>with a sponge required. That sounds far preferable. Flanders Deep tales.

0:25:00.359 --> 0:25:03.240
<v Speaker 1>This is a string of twenty eight one candle power

0:25:03.280 --> 0:25:07.200
<v Speaker 1>miniature Edison lamps. It costs twelve dollars, and I believe

0:25:07.400 --> 0:25:09.919
<v Speaker 1>that breaks down to something like three fifty dollars in

0:25:09.920 --> 0:25:12.840
<v Speaker 1>today's money, which, to be clear, is is the sort

0:25:12.840 --> 0:25:15.320
<v Speaker 1>of some people are still paying and well beyond that

0:25:15.400 --> 0:25:18.560
<v Speaker 1>for their various holiday decorations. When you were growing up,

0:25:18.680 --> 0:25:21.200
<v Speaker 1>was there anybody in the town where you lived who

0:25:21.280 --> 0:25:23.920
<v Speaker 1>was like the house that everybody in town knew about

0:25:23.960 --> 0:25:26.479
<v Speaker 1>that would just go bonkers at Christmas and put up

0:25:26.480 --> 0:25:29.760
<v Speaker 1>what looks like a million dollars worth of Christmas decorations

0:25:29.760 --> 0:25:32.880
<v Speaker 1>in the yard and everybody drive by at night. Yeah. Yeah,

0:25:32.920 --> 0:25:36.320
<v Speaker 1>there were several of those grizzwoll households around you would

0:25:36.359 --> 0:25:38.400
<v Speaker 1>have you would drive out to see them. They were destinations.

0:25:38.760 --> 0:25:41.080
<v Speaker 1>Of course, Now we have so many inflatable decorations, which

0:25:41.080 --> 0:25:45.200
<v Speaker 1>are cool, but I feel like that takes takes away

0:25:45.720 --> 0:25:48.080
<v Speaker 1>some It doesn't take anything away from the decorations obviously,

0:25:48.119 --> 0:25:51.000
<v Speaker 1>but uh, there are all these other exciting ways to

0:25:51.040 --> 0:25:53.760
<v Speaker 1>decorate a house for the holidays. Now they don't necessarily

0:25:53.840 --> 0:25:57.040
<v Speaker 1>involve lights, but at the time, even in nineteen o three,

0:25:57.280 --> 0:26:00.440
<v Speaker 1>it sounds like you had some pretty cool options. Flaming points,

0:26:00.600 --> 0:26:04.280
<v Speaker 1>uh to some Austrian produced strings of lights quote with

0:26:04.359 --> 0:26:08.439
<v Speaker 1>bulbs shaped like fruit flowers and animals or snowmen or

0:26:08.520 --> 0:26:12.280
<v Speaker 1>Santa's And the cool thing about these these were apparently

0:26:12.359 --> 0:26:14.840
<v Speaker 1>battery powered and could be used in houses that didn't

0:26:14.840 --> 0:26:18.640
<v Speaker 1>have electricity, which is which is again an interesting innovation

0:26:18.680 --> 0:26:22.280
<v Speaker 1>because again three Yeah, and by the start of War

0:26:22.359 --> 0:26:26.720
<v Speaker 1>War one around nineteen fourteen, prices dropped to the affordable

0:26:26.800 --> 0:26:29.720
<v Speaker 1>range of a dollar seventy five, so it just became

0:26:30.200 --> 0:26:32.600
<v Speaker 1>you can just see the situation. More and more houses

0:26:32.640 --> 0:26:36.119
<v Speaker 1>are getting electricity, More and more households are cool with

0:26:36.160 --> 0:26:39.560
<v Speaker 1>the idea of having electricity in in the home on

0:26:39.600 --> 0:26:42.159
<v Speaker 1>the Christmas tree. I also understand that there was an

0:26:42.160 --> 0:26:45.640
<v Speaker 1>insurance boost to having electric lights in your tree as

0:26:45.640 --> 0:26:48.480
<v Speaker 1>opposed to candles, And then it just becomes more and

0:26:48.520 --> 0:26:50.919
<v Speaker 1>more affordable, so more and more people buy into this.

0:26:52.080 --> 0:26:57.119
<v Speaker 1>According to the Library of Congress, American Albert Sedaka also

0:26:57.160 --> 0:27:00.639
<v Speaker 1>helped popularize tree lights. His family owned a novelty lighting store,

0:27:01.040 --> 0:27:03.240
<v Speaker 1>so he was well positioned to cash in on this

0:27:03.560 --> 0:27:07.240
<v Speaker 1>as a teenager in nineteen seventeen, he reportedly realized the demand,

0:27:07.560 --> 0:27:11.600
<v Speaker 1>and in nineteen twenty UH Albert and his brothers organized

0:27:11.640 --> 0:27:16.560
<v Speaker 1>the National Outfit Manufacturers Association or NOMA, which became the

0:27:16.680 --> 0:27:20.040
<v Speaker 1>Noma Electric Company, and they ended up cornering the Christmas

0:27:20.160 --> 0:27:24.840
<v Speaker 1>light market until the nineteen sixties, and NOMA was responsible

0:27:24.840 --> 0:27:27.359
<v Speaker 1>for a number of key innovations during their reign of

0:27:28.040 --> 0:27:32.520
<v Speaker 1>Christmas terror, UH, including bubble lights. Do you remember bubble lights, Joe?

0:27:32.680 --> 0:27:34.760
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what that is now, you know? Oh? Okay?

0:27:35.400 --> 0:27:38.359
<v Speaker 1>I believe I had an aunt or two even that

0:27:38.440 --> 0:27:41.000
<v Speaker 1>still had these on their trees. When I was a kid. Uh.

0:27:41.040 --> 0:27:44.720
<v Speaker 1>These were in nineteen six innovation. These were Uh. These

0:27:44.720 --> 0:27:50.080
<v Speaker 1>consisted of liquid feel filled vials of toxic methylene chloride.

0:27:51.560 --> 0:27:54.640
<v Speaker 1>And methylene chloride has a very low boiling point, so

0:27:54.720 --> 0:27:57.080
<v Speaker 1>the heat of an electric bulb is enough to make

0:27:57.119 --> 0:28:01.520
<v Speaker 1>it bubble, which looks cool on a Christmas tree. But again,

0:28:01.760 --> 0:28:05.520
<v Speaker 1>toxic vials of bubbling liquid. Methylene chloride is also known

0:28:05.560 --> 0:28:08.760
<v Speaker 1>as di chloro methane and it I think it is

0:28:08.880 --> 0:28:12.680
<v Speaker 1>used as a paint thinner or like a paint stripper. Yeah.

0:28:13.080 --> 0:28:16.920
<v Speaker 1>So um, I'm I'm not jealous that I don't have

0:28:17.000 --> 0:28:19.239
<v Speaker 1>these in my house. Um, and I'm not sure there

0:28:19.320 --> 0:28:21.800
<v Speaker 1>might be some more acceptable form of bubble lights out

0:28:21.800 --> 0:28:24.240
<v Speaker 1>there today. But I would love to hear from anyone

0:28:24.240 --> 0:28:27.879
<v Speaker 1>out there who has memories of bubble lights uh or

0:28:27.960 --> 0:28:30.360
<v Speaker 1>has some sort of updated version of the technology now,

0:28:30.640 --> 0:28:33.800
<v Speaker 1>or just anybody who has has memories of older models

0:28:33.800 --> 0:28:37.080
<v Speaker 1>of Christmas tree lighting, because of course nowadays it's all

0:28:37.080 --> 0:28:40.200
<v Speaker 1>pretty much l e ed. Uh. They system seems to

0:28:40.200 --> 0:28:43.640
<v Speaker 1>be pretty much refined, The technology seems to be pretty stable,

0:28:43.760 --> 0:28:46.560
<v Speaker 1>with just varying degrees of like smart technology involved in

0:28:46.560 --> 0:28:49.040
<v Speaker 1>how they function. Like I think you can nowadays, you

0:28:49.040 --> 0:28:51.440
<v Speaker 1>can get an artificial tree with lighting still you know,

0:28:51.480 --> 0:28:54.239
<v Speaker 1>already installed on it, and you can just you can

0:28:54.280 --> 0:28:56.800
<v Speaker 1>decide like the frequency of the twinkle, you can decide

0:28:56.840 --> 0:28:59.280
<v Speaker 1>like what the the colors are going to be, just

0:28:59.560 --> 0:29:02.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, on the fly. Oh, sorry to whip us back.

0:29:02.040 --> 0:29:04.440
<v Speaker 1>I think I just remember another use of dichlora methane,

0:29:04.480 --> 0:29:07.080
<v Speaker 1>which I think it's the liquid that's in the dippy bird.

0:29:07.440 --> 0:29:11.080
<v Speaker 1>Oh oh oh yeah, the the dippy bird, the water

0:29:11.160 --> 0:29:14.680
<v Speaker 1>drinking a bird automaton. Yeah, well there you go. That

0:29:14.720 --> 0:29:17.560
<v Speaker 1>makes sense. Well, anyway, I'm gonna order some dangerous vintage

0:29:17.600 --> 0:29:20.200
<v Speaker 1>bubble lights. I'm sure you can get the money. Oh,

0:29:20.280 --> 0:29:24.360
<v Speaker 1>be careful, please be careful out there. Um. You know,

0:29:24.360 --> 0:29:26.560
<v Speaker 1>I'd also love to hear from anybody who still decorates

0:29:26.640 --> 0:29:29.600
<v Speaker 1>at all with candles. Um. I imagine some people still

0:29:29.680 --> 0:29:32.800
<v Speaker 1>do this, at least for that one lighting. But oh,

0:29:33.040 --> 0:29:35.240
<v Speaker 1>I just don't know. I don't think I'm brave enough

0:29:35.240 --> 0:29:36.640
<v Speaker 1>to try it, even if I did have a sponge

0:29:36.640 --> 0:29:45.000
<v Speaker 1>on a state. Okay, so put down your sponge on

0:29:45.000 --> 0:29:48.720
<v Speaker 1>the stick, because I want you to picture another element

0:29:48.800 --> 0:29:52.520
<v Speaker 1>of a classic Christmas tree picture, like the vintage nineteen

0:29:52.600 --> 0:29:55.520
<v Speaker 1>fifties American Christmas tree, the kind of like you'd see

0:29:55.520 --> 0:29:58.040
<v Speaker 1>in a Christmas story and that kind of thing. But

0:29:58.200 --> 0:30:00.320
<v Speaker 1>what do you see when you picture that in your mind?

0:30:00.440 --> 0:30:05.200
<v Speaker 1>Maybe these multicolored electric lights, maybe big old ball shaped

0:30:05.320 --> 0:30:08.240
<v Speaker 1>ornaments kind of making the branches all drooped down under

0:30:08.280 --> 0:30:12.520
<v Speaker 1>their weight. And then there's that other stuff, stuff that

0:30:12.560 --> 0:30:15.800
<v Speaker 1>makes it look like the tree is dripping shiny metallic

0:30:16.040 --> 0:30:21.000
<v Speaker 1>gack like a cassette tape has barfed silver pasta all

0:30:21.000 --> 0:30:24.800
<v Speaker 1>over the festive branches. Yes, and and over the floor

0:30:24.880 --> 0:30:28.200
<v Speaker 1>and um and just over the house in general. Uh,

0:30:28.480 --> 0:30:31.240
<v Speaker 1>you're talking, of course, about about tinsel or I think

0:30:31.280 --> 0:30:33.000
<v Speaker 1>when I was growing up we called them icicles for

0:30:33.040 --> 0:30:36.720
<v Speaker 1>some reason. But tinsel, Yes. So I've got to start

0:30:36.760 --> 0:30:38.800
<v Speaker 1>off by saying, I don't know how many people still

0:30:38.840 --> 0:30:42.360
<v Speaker 1>actually use this stuff, but I do know it still exists.

0:30:42.400 --> 0:30:43.880
<v Speaker 1>You can buy it. I looked it up, but I'm

0:30:43.920 --> 0:30:47.720
<v Speaker 1>mainly associated with Christmas trees. You would see an old

0:30:47.800 --> 0:30:52.600
<v Speaker 1>polaroids from boomer childhood's. Yeah, we we definitely used it.

0:30:52.640 --> 0:30:54.920
<v Speaker 1>I was talking about tinsel with my wife last night,

0:30:55.200 --> 0:30:57.200
<v Speaker 1>and in both of our households growing up, Yeah, we

0:30:57.240 --> 0:31:00.200
<v Speaker 1>just tinseled the hell out of those trees like they

0:31:00.320 --> 0:31:04.120
<v Speaker 1>looked like somebody and to just she lacked them with

0:31:04.120 --> 0:31:07.880
<v Speaker 1>with with shiny metal drippings. So what is tinsel and

0:31:07.920 --> 0:31:10.520
<v Speaker 1>where did it come from and where did it go? Well,

0:31:10.680 --> 0:31:13.640
<v Speaker 1>so remember that the tradition of the Christmas tree, it

0:31:13.720 --> 0:31:16.440
<v Speaker 1>ties into even older traditions, but it goes back at

0:31:16.520 --> 0:31:20.880
<v Speaker 1>least as far as the sixteenth century in Germany. Um. So,

0:31:20.880 --> 0:31:25.680
<v Speaker 1>so what came before tinsel in this context? Apparently literal icicles,

0:31:26.320 --> 0:31:29.360
<v Speaker 1>because one thing I've read is that a common understanding

0:31:29.360 --> 0:31:33.720
<v Speaker 1>of the purpose of tinsel is to resemble icicles hanging

0:31:33.760 --> 0:31:36.600
<v Speaker 1>from the branches of an evergreen tree and glimmering in

0:31:36.640 --> 0:31:39.680
<v Speaker 1>the sun. Now, if the tree is inside your house,

0:31:39.920 --> 0:31:42.440
<v Speaker 1>it will not do to have icicles hanging from it

0:31:42.520 --> 0:31:45.080
<v Speaker 1>unless you have a really really cold house or you

0:31:45.360 --> 0:31:47.800
<v Speaker 1>don't mind having a really wet floor after they melt.

0:31:48.240 --> 0:31:51.600
<v Speaker 1>So this is the next best thing, right, shiny glittering

0:31:51.800 --> 0:31:55.840
<v Speaker 1>filaments that reflect the firelight and make your tree twinkle

0:31:55.880 --> 0:31:59.040
<v Speaker 1>with Christmas cheer. Absolutely, And it's kind of an upgrading

0:31:59.080 --> 0:32:02.120
<v Speaker 1>of those checks that we talked about earlier, Right right,

0:32:02.640 --> 0:32:06.520
<v Speaker 1>those were glass beads, right, Uh, So these are originally

0:32:06.560 --> 0:32:09.960
<v Speaker 1>going to be very metal. I was reading um not

0:32:10.080 --> 0:32:13.239
<v Speaker 1>metal like metal music they made of metal. I was

0:32:13.520 --> 0:32:16.080
<v Speaker 1>reading a Mental Floss article about this by Michelle deb

0:32:16.200 --> 0:32:20.120
<v Speaker 1>Chack about the history of of tinselong Christmas trees, and

0:32:20.200 --> 0:32:22.480
<v Speaker 1>she puts out a few interesting facts, one of which

0:32:22.520 --> 0:32:24.840
<v Speaker 1>is that today tinsel is very cheap. You know, I

0:32:24.880 --> 0:32:26.640
<v Speaker 1>looked it up. You can get it from Target for

0:32:26.840 --> 0:32:29.440
<v Speaker 1>three dollars for a packet or something. But it was

0:32:29.520 --> 0:32:33.719
<v Speaker 1>once absolutely a luxury item, much like Christmas lights themselves.

0:32:34.320 --> 0:32:38.160
<v Speaker 1>In seventeenth century Germany, there are records of trees being

0:32:38.200 --> 0:32:42.440
<v Speaker 1>decorated with pressed strips made from real silver. And remember,

0:32:42.520 --> 0:32:44.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, one of the classic appeals of silver and

0:32:44.480 --> 0:32:47.160
<v Speaker 1>gold is the way they could shine beautifully. They'd reflect

0:32:47.200 --> 0:32:49.080
<v Speaker 1>the light in a way that was pretty. And this

0:32:49.200 --> 0:32:52.760
<v Speaker 1>was before the invention of cheaper metal and plastic foils.

0:32:53.560 --> 0:32:55.760
<v Speaker 1>So I was looking for more on the history here

0:32:55.800 --> 0:32:59.040
<v Speaker 1>of about tinsel and I found an interesting book by

0:32:59.080 --> 0:33:02.719
<v Speaker 1>Bernd Brunner are called Inventing the Christmas Tree, published by

0:33:02.760 --> 0:33:08.240
<v Speaker 1>Yale University Press in and Brunner has some interesting things

0:33:08.240 --> 0:33:11.000
<v Speaker 1>to point out here. Brunner says that quote tinsel was

0:33:11.080 --> 0:33:15.920
<v Speaker 1>probably inspired by the so called Leonie Drata, which he

0:33:15.960 --> 0:33:19.280
<v Speaker 1>says was introduced by Huguenots from leon. I think Leonishia

0:33:19.360 --> 0:33:23.360
<v Speaker 1>drata means Leonese wire, and this would be quote silver

0:33:23.520 --> 0:33:27.360
<v Speaker 1>or gold plated copper wire that was originally a byproduct

0:33:27.400 --> 0:33:30.920
<v Speaker 1>of metal work. It is reminiscent of the silver thread

0:33:30.920 --> 0:33:34.440
<v Speaker 1>that was woven into church vestments in the Middle Ages

0:33:35.160 --> 0:33:39.320
<v Speaker 1>for a long time. Tinsel, also called silver plated sauerkraut

0:33:39.400 --> 0:33:43.800
<v Speaker 1>in colloquial German, was cut from tinfoil. It is reminiscent

0:33:43.840 --> 0:33:46.280
<v Speaker 1>of a thin icicle, but it could just as well

0:33:46.360 --> 0:33:50.760
<v Speaker 1>bring forth summary associations. And then he quotes a German

0:33:50.800 --> 0:33:53.920
<v Speaker 1>writer who's a like a German realist author named Theodore

0:33:54.080 --> 0:33:57.800
<v Speaker 1>Storm in a passage from eighteen eighty four where he's

0:33:57.880 --> 0:34:01.200
<v Speaker 1>describing some stuff going on around Christmas. He says, quote,

0:34:01.520 --> 0:34:04.600
<v Speaker 1>on the Sunday before Christmas, my friend Peterson brought a

0:34:04.640 --> 0:34:08.520
<v Speaker 1>sack filled with a marvelous silver thread. The tree wrapped

0:34:08.520 --> 0:34:11.600
<v Speaker 1>in this fine silver thread looked like a flying summer.

0:34:12.320 --> 0:34:15.000
<v Speaker 1>But Bruner also notes that a variation on the silver

0:34:15.040 --> 0:34:19.760
<v Speaker 1>tincil was known as angels hair, fairies hair, or baby

0:34:19.880 --> 0:34:23.720
<v Speaker 1>Jesus's hair, and he says this was also a type

0:34:23.719 --> 0:34:27.399
<v Speaker 1>of fine metal thread. Ah, Now that's that's internet. First

0:34:27.400 --> 0:34:29.720
<v Speaker 1>of all, I mean, I just I'm picturing Jesus, adult

0:34:29.840 --> 0:34:31.920
<v Speaker 1>Jesus with like a full head and beard of like

0:34:32.239 --> 0:34:36.680
<v Speaker 1>straight up silver metal hair. But it also reminds me um.

0:34:37.760 --> 0:34:40.360
<v Speaker 1>I remember talking to someone from the Czech Republic and

0:34:40.360 --> 0:34:42.840
<v Speaker 1>they were talking about the tradition of the baby Jesus

0:34:42.880 --> 0:34:45.960
<v Speaker 1>lowering gifts down. I think kind of like a golden

0:34:46.040 --> 0:34:48.880
<v Speaker 1>or metallic string. So I wonder if that's connected to

0:34:48.920 --> 0:34:51.920
<v Speaker 1>this tradition, like Jesus with a fishing pole, like the

0:34:51.920 --> 0:34:54.680
<v Speaker 1>Man on the moon kind of. I guess I'm down

0:34:54.840 --> 0:34:58.439
<v Speaker 1>Baby Jesus from on high using like the silver corn

0:34:58.560 --> 0:35:06.239
<v Speaker 1>really like a space elevator. That's very good. But so

0:35:06.360 --> 0:35:08.680
<v Speaker 1>to come back to this, the silver tinsil, So there

0:35:08.680 --> 0:35:11.719
<v Speaker 1>were a lot of problems with genuine silver tinsil. One

0:35:11.760 --> 0:35:14.440
<v Speaker 1>of the obvious ones I mentioned already is how expensive

0:35:14.480 --> 0:35:16.759
<v Speaker 1>it would have been. But also deb Check points out

0:35:16.800 --> 0:35:19.560
<v Speaker 1>another thing, which is that silver tarnishes very quickly, so

0:35:19.600 --> 0:35:21.239
<v Speaker 1>if you put it up on the Christmas tree, it

0:35:21.360 --> 0:35:26.480
<v Speaker 1>might tarnish before Christmas actually came around. Okay, so but

0:35:26.520 --> 0:35:28.160
<v Speaker 1>then again, if you're if you're putting up your tree

0:35:28.200 --> 0:35:32.600
<v Speaker 1>on the like the traditional German Christmas Eve erection night,

0:35:32.920 --> 0:35:35.799
<v Speaker 1>then it makes sense. I mean they don't call it

0:35:35.800 --> 0:35:38.040
<v Speaker 1>erection night obviously, but I mean that is the night

0:35:38.080 --> 0:35:41.439
<v Speaker 1>that you erect the Christmas tree. Okay, yeah, maybe I'm

0:35:41.480 --> 0:35:44.520
<v Speaker 1>not sure when exactly the tincil would go up in

0:35:44.520 --> 0:35:47.720
<v Speaker 1>in what context, But but you know, there were problems

0:35:47.800 --> 0:35:51.400
<v Speaker 1>with it maintaining it's it's sheen for as long as

0:35:51.400 --> 0:35:55.080
<v Speaker 1>you would want it to, especially since it's expensive stuff. Yeah,

0:35:55.640 --> 0:35:57.960
<v Speaker 1>so I mean this might be problems with trying to

0:35:58.080 --> 0:36:00.279
<v Speaker 1>use it year after year. If it was need of

0:36:00.280 --> 0:36:02.480
<v Speaker 1>actual silver, you would probably want to do that, right,

0:36:03.680 --> 0:36:06.480
<v Speaker 1>But in the early nineteen hundreds of manufacturers in the

0:36:06.560 --> 0:36:09.319
<v Speaker 1>United States were making tinsel out of cheaper and more

0:36:09.400 --> 0:36:13.600
<v Speaker 1>durable shiny metals like aluminum and copper. But there were

0:36:13.600 --> 0:36:17.600
<v Speaker 1>still some problems with the new models because aluminum paper

0:36:17.640 --> 0:36:21.360
<v Speaker 1>based tinsel was highly flammable. Again, this is going to

0:36:21.600 --> 0:36:23.960
<v Speaker 1>cause problems when you want to light up your tree, right.

0:36:25.280 --> 0:36:28.160
<v Speaker 1>But then also during World War One, copper was in

0:36:28.239 --> 0:36:30.799
<v Speaker 1>high demand for wartime production, and so that made it

0:36:30.880 --> 0:36:35.120
<v Speaker 1>a poor choice for you know, frivolities like holiday decorations.

0:36:35.160 --> 0:36:37.520
<v Speaker 1>So so what could come in to save the day.

0:36:37.560 --> 0:36:39.880
<v Speaker 1>What other medals could come in to be your cuddle

0:36:39.920 --> 0:36:43.600
<v Speaker 1>friend for Christmas time? Oh oh, I don't know. Um,

0:36:44.840 --> 0:36:49.279
<v Speaker 1>I know you know where I'm going with this. Not lead, yep, lead?

0:36:50.239 --> 0:36:53.280
<v Speaker 1>Uh So, to read from teb Jack's article here, quote

0:36:53.960 --> 0:36:57.120
<v Speaker 1>lead revive tinsel from obscurity, and soon it was embraced

0:36:57.160 --> 0:36:59.920
<v Speaker 1>as a standard Christmas component, along with ornaments and all

0:37:00.000 --> 0:37:03.080
<v Speaker 1>ectric lights. It became so popular in the nineteen fifties

0:37:03.120 --> 0:37:05.319
<v Speaker 1>and sixties that tinsel has often thought of as a

0:37:05.360 --> 0:37:08.479
<v Speaker 1>mid century fad rather than a tradition that's been around

0:37:08.520 --> 0:37:12.279
<v Speaker 1>as long as Christmas trees themselves. With so many synthetic

0:37:12.320 --> 0:37:16.400
<v Speaker 1>decorations becoming available around Christmas time, tinsel made from metal

0:37:16.520 --> 0:37:19.120
<v Speaker 1>was considered one of the safer items to have in

0:37:19.120 --> 0:37:22.800
<v Speaker 1>the home. A nineteen fifty nine newspaper article on holiday

0:37:22.840 --> 0:37:26.480
<v Speaker 1>safety reads quote tinsel was fairly safe because even if

0:37:26.480 --> 0:37:32.720
<v Speaker 1>the kiddies decided to swallow it, it will not cause poisoning. Uh, folks,

0:37:32.840 --> 0:37:35.680
<v Speaker 1>you you probably should not use tinsel based on lead

0:37:35.719 --> 0:37:38.360
<v Speaker 1>at all, and you definitely should not let the kiddies

0:37:38.440 --> 0:37:43.240
<v Speaker 1>decide to swallow it. Um. And this became quite clear

0:37:43.280 --> 0:37:45.480
<v Speaker 1>obviously by the end of the sixties. I mean, starting

0:37:45.480 --> 0:37:49.239
<v Speaker 1>in the mid sixties, you had great scientists like Claire C. Patterson,

0:37:49.760 --> 0:37:51.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, the Lord of Lead, who we've talked about before,

0:37:52.120 --> 0:37:55.200
<v Speaker 1>talking about the the dangers of lead in the environment

0:37:55.320 --> 0:37:58.440
<v Speaker 1>and dangers of lead being incorporated into the body. By

0:37:58.440 --> 0:38:01.960
<v Speaker 1>the early seventies, the message was really out and there was,

0:38:02.040 --> 0:38:06.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, widespread backlash against the total infiltration of lead

0:38:06.040 --> 0:38:09.520
<v Speaker 1>into every corner of our existence. I mean, this is

0:38:09.600 --> 0:38:11.640
<v Speaker 1>the era when you get like the banning of leaded

0:38:11.640 --> 0:38:14.600
<v Speaker 1>gasoline and things like that. Um. And of course, of

0:38:14.640 --> 0:38:17.960
<v Speaker 1>course this eventually also lead to the discontinuation of lead

0:38:18.000 --> 0:38:21.239
<v Speaker 1>in many consumer goods, including tenseil. So if you buy

0:38:21.320 --> 0:38:24.400
<v Speaker 1>tenseil today, it's probably gonna be made out of milar

0:38:24.719 --> 0:38:28.080
<v Speaker 1>or polyvinyl chloride with a shiny finish. Uh, you know,

0:38:28.120 --> 0:38:31.359
<v Speaker 1>you're gonna get probably some kind of plastic product. But

0:38:31.440 --> 0:38:33.560
<v Speaker 1>despite the fact that you can still buy it, I

0:38:33.640 --> 0:38:37.000
<v Speaker 1>have noticed I don't really see it very much anymore.

0:38:37.000 --> 0:38:40.200
<v Speaker 1>I mean, obviously somebody still using it because you can

0:38:40.200 --> 0:38:42.760
<v Speaker 1>still get it. But like, my question is what happened

0:38:42.760 --> 0:38:47.719
<v Speaker 1>to tenseil. I wonder if modern versions of it just

0:38:47.800 --> 0:38:52.239
<v Speaker 1>have too many associations with like the post war plastic

0:38:52.320 --> 0:38:55.839
<v Speaker 1>boom kind of energy if it just seems too synthetic,

0:38:56.520 --> 0:39:00.440
<v Speaker 1>because Bruner writes of a countervailing force against soul in

0:39:00.480 --> 0:39:03.399
<v Speaker 1>all of its forms in In one paragraph in his book,

0:39:03.400 --> 0:39:06.400
<v Speaker 1>he says, quote at the end of the eighteen seventies,

0:39:06.600 --> 0:39:11.080
<v Speaker 1>there is documentation from Corinthian gael Valley in southern Austria,

0:39:11.440 --> 0:39:14.920
<v Speaker 1>that a thick spruce, free of all decoration, was placed

0:39:14.960 --> 0:39:17.200
<v Speaker 1>in the corner of a farmstead as a sign of

0:39:17.239 --> 0:39:21.359
<v Speaker 1>silent joy. On frosty, cold winter mornings. The tree, now

0:39:21.400 --> 0:39:24.960
<v Speaker 1>covered with little icicles and illuminated by the sun's rays,

0:39:25.400 --> 0:39:28.479
<v Speaker 1>shimmered like a Christmas tree covered in lights without any

0:39:28.560 --> 0:39:32.680
<v Speaker 1>tensil or Fairi's hair. The wild beauty of the tree sufficed.

0:39:33.600 --> 0:39:35.080
<v Speaker 1>And this kind of brings us back to what we

0:39:35.080 --> 0:39:37.680
<v Speaker 1>were talking about at the beginning, like the fake tree

0:39:37.800 --> 0:39:41.520
<v Speaker 1>versus the real tree. I mean, I feel that real

0:39:41.560 --> 0:39:44.839
<v Speaker 1>tree drive, even though habits have prevented me from ever

0:39:44.920 --> 0:39:47.840
<v Speaker 1>going there. And the real tree drive, I think feeds

0:39:47.880 --> 0:39:51.960
<v Speaker 1>into a maybe maybe a more total rejection of things

0:39:52.000 --> 0:39:55.880
<v Speaker 1>that remind you of synthetic industrial products when you're decorating

0:39:55.920 --> 0:40:00.800
<v Speaker 1>for Christmas. Yeah, I do admire those really organic trees

0:40:00.880 --> 0:40:04.239
<v Speaker 1>you see sometimes where they're they're using like strong popcorn

0:40:04.440 --> 0:40:06.759
<v Speaker 1>around it, and and yeah, maybe getting back to the

0:40:06.840 --> 0:40:11.000
<v Speaker 1>use of apples and so forth. Uh, you know it's yeah,

0:40:11.160 --> 0:40:13.120
<v Speaker 1>I do like that the idea that you could basically

0:40:13.160 --> 0:40:16.279
<v Speaker 1>just eat the whole tree after after Christmas, just eat

0:40:16.280 --> 0:40:18.400
<v Speaker 1>it up or just I guess it's you know, completely

0:40:18.400 --> 0:40:22.040
<v Speaker 1>compostable to some degree as well, that let the fungus

0:40:22.120 --> 0:40:25.640
<v Speaker 1>have it. Uh. But there's one more passage I want

0:40:25.640 --> 0:40:27.719
<v Speaker 1>to read before we move on. This doesn't really have

0:40:27.800 --> 0:40:31.040
<v Speaker 1>much to do with tenseil, but I was reading parts

0:40:31.040 --> 0:40:33.680
<v Speaker 1>of this book Inventing the Christmas Tree by Burned Bruner,

0:40:33.920 --> 0:40:38.520
<v Speaker 1>and um, I came across one section where I met

0:40:38.560 --> 0:40:43.440
<v Speaker 1>the hannibal lecter of Christmas, just the most astonishingly anal

0:40:43.520 --> 0:40:46.719
<v Speaker 1>retentive Christmas fanatic in history. Do you mind if I

0:40:46.760 --> 0:40:48.960
<v Speaker 1>read this just because I thought it was let's let's

0:40:48.960 --> 0:40:51.400
<v Speaker 1>do it, let's lean into the holidays. Yeah, okay, okay,

0:40:51.440 --> 0:40:54.000
<v Speaker 1>So this is Brunner, this is Bruner himself writing this

0:40:54.080 --> 0:40:58.960
<v Speaker 1>introduction to the passage. Brunner says some specialists transformed decoration

0:40:59.000 --> 0:41:02.879
<v Speaker 1>of the Christmas tree into an exceptional skill. Among them

0:41:02.960 --> 0:41:06.720
<v Speaker 1>was the German Hugo Elm who in his eighteen seventy

0:41:06.760 --> 0:41:10.520
<v Speaker 1>eight Golden Christmas Book made a plea for quote a

0:41:10.640 --> 0:41:14.600
<v Speaker 1>tasteful separation of the numerous decorations on the tree in

0:41:14.719 --> 0:41:19.719
<v Speaker 1>order to avoid a bland hodgepodge. He suggested the following

0:41:19.760 --> 0:41:22.920
<v Speaker 1>steps precisely designed for the anatomy of the tree and

0:41:23.000 --> 0:41:26.320
<v Speaker 1>the load capacity of its branches, and here the quote begins.

0:41:27.000 --> 0:41:30.520
<v Speaker 1>Decoration should begin with the heaviest objects, which are best

0:41:30.560 --> 0:41:33.240
<v Speaker 1>placed near the trunk and in the middle of a branch.

0:41:33.840 --> 0:41:38.200
<v Speaker 1>Next one should place the nuts. Place silver and gold nuts,

0:41:38.239 --> 0:41:41.600
<v Speaker 1>alternating about three to four pieces on the longer and

0:41:41.680 --> 0:41:44.399
<v Speaker 1>two to three on the shorter branches, and on the

0:41:44.440 --> 0:41:49.360
<v Speaker 1>top smallest branches only one each. The golden and silver

0:41:49.480 --> 0:41:53.279
<v Speaker 1>pine cones, in contrast, should be placed farther forward in

0:41:53.360 --> 0:41:56.520
<v Speaker 1>the second third of the branch, as calculated from the

0:41:56.560 --> 0:42:01.200
<v Speaker 1>trunk outward. Marzipan and sweets are best placed in between

0:42:01.360 --> 0:42:05.440
<v Speaker 1>two nuts. Shiny glass balls, fruits and the like are

0:42:05.480 --> 0:42:08.759
<v Speaker 1>to be placed preferably on the upper branches in order

0:42:08.800 --> 0:42:12.000
<v Speaker 1>to enjoy the effect of their refracting rays of light.

0:42:12.640 --> 0:42:15.520
<v Speaker 1>Metal coils and tinsel are spread out at the tips

0:42:15.560 --> 0:42:18.719
<v Speaker 1>of the secondary branches, for these are thinner and are

0:42:18.760 --> 0:42:22.560
<v Speaker 1>more likely to sway than the thicker main branches, and

0:42:22.680 --> 0:42:25.680
<v Speaker 1>small baskets and nets made of paper are placed on

0:42:25.760 --> 0:42:30.520
<v Speaker 1>secondary branches. The individual stars should be distributed evenly, while

0:42:30.560 --> 0:42:35.400
<v Speaker 1>the strings of alternating nuts, straw, stars, paper and similar

0:42:35.640 --> 0:42:39.040
<v Speaker 1>are to be wound around the branches and distributed. Paper

0:42:39.040 --> 0:42:41.760
<v Speaker 1>bags should always be put on the tips of the branches,

0:42:42.080 --> 0:42:44.919
<v Speaker 1>ideally beneath the lights. At the top of the tree,

0:42:44.960 --> 0:42:48.640
<v Speaker 1>one customarily puts a large star made of cardboard covered

0:42:48.680 --> 0:42:51.800
<v Speaker 1>with golden paper, in which one glues either a self

0:42:51.920 --> 0:42:55.840
<v Speaker 1>made or bought Christmas angel, a thick tome with golden

0:42:55.960 --> 0:42:59.960
<v Speaker 1>fringe and an old Gothic script displaying the Sublime Christmas

0:43:00.120 --> 0:43:03.920
<v Speaker 1>saying glory to God in the high also looks magnificent.

0:43:04.440 --> 0:43:06.640
<v Speaker 1>Once the lights have been put on the tree, the

0:43:06.680 --> 0:43:09.440
<v Speaker 1>tops of the branches can be covered with loosely pulled

0:43:09.480 --> 0:43:14.040
<v Speaker 1>cotton and these then affixed with silver thread. This is

0:43:14.080 --> 0:43:18.480
<v Speaker 1>my design, Okay, So here's my idea. Actually, in the

0:43:18.520 --> 0:43:23.120
<v Speaker 1>tradition of Batman versus Superman, Freddie versus Jason, Godzilla versus

0:43:23.200 --> 0:43:27.160
<v Speaker 1>King Kong, we've got to have a big movie Christmas extravaganza.

0:43:27.520 --> 0:43:33.120
<v Speaker 1>Hugo elm versus William Bradford the man who Hated Christmas

0:43:33.280 --> 0:43:36.120
<v Speaker 1>versus the man who will kill you if you put

0:43:36.120 --> 0:43:42.520
<v Speaker 1>the nuts and the stars in the wrong order. Oh wow, wow, yeah,

0:43:42.560 --> 0:43:45.960
<v Speaker 1>I love that reading. It's just so um pedantic, so

0:43:48.680 --> 0:43:56.719
<v Speaker 1>so tyrannical concerning the decoration of the Christmas tree than

0:43:58.880 --> 0:44:00.959
<v Speaker 1>right there at the end though, he you mentioned the star,

0:44:01.120 --> 0:44:08.520
<v Speaker 1>the angel, the tree topper. Joe, what's what's your tree topper? Oh? Um,

0:44:08.520 --> 0:44:10.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, I don't know the answer. I could go

0:44:10.080 --> 0:44:14.120
<v Speaker 1>check right now, let me let me go check some

0:44:14.160 --> 0:44:23.360
<v Speaker 1>waiting music in the meantime, all right, and may have

0:44:23.400 --> 0:44:25.200
<v Speaker 1>caught him in alive. There may be no Christmas tree

0:44:25.239 --> 0:44:34.120
<v Speaker 1>and he's not coming back. Oh it's anticlimactic. It's a star. Yeah.

0:44:34.120 --> 0:44:36.680
<v Speaker 1>The star and the angel are are typical. You do

0:44:36.760 --> 0:44:40.840
<v Speaker 1>see some other quirky Christmas tree toppers. I I have

0:44:40.960 --> 0:44:43.040
<v Speaker 1>some family members to use a tartist at the top

0:44:43.080 --> 0:44:48.120
<v Speaker 1>of their tree. They can they consider that the pinnacle. Um.

0:44:48.120 --> 0:44:50.560
<v Speaker 1>But of course one of the big ones is either

0:44:50.640 --> 0:44:53.760
<v Speaker 1>the star or the angel. So for our final section

0:44:53.880 --> 0:44:57.239
<v Speaker 1>in this episode, I wanted to talk about the angelic

0:44:57.320 --> 0:45:00.280
<v Speaker 1>tree topper. So remember when we discussed the Victor Orion

0:45:00.360 --> 0:45:02.480
<v Speaker 1>Christmas tree. Apparently it was during this time that the

0:45:02.520 --> 0:45:05.759
<v Speaker 1>angel really became popular as a Christmas tree topper, and

0:45:05.840 --> 0:45:08.319
<v Speaker 1>it remains a popular choice to this day. Though for

0:45:08.360 --> 0:45:11.479
<v Speaker 1>the most part, these are generally the most boring sort

0:45:11.520 --> 0:45:15.080
<v Speaker 1>of angelic depictions you could ask for, never the fearsome

0:45:15.280 --> 0:45:19.000
<v Speaker 1>or surreal angels that one often finds another treatments and

0:45:19.200 --> 0:45:23.080
<v Speaker 1>art and artistry and even in um sacred literature. Now,

0:45:23.120 --> 0:45:25.960
<v Speaker 1>these are generally like little dress up dolls with wings

0:45:25.960 --> 0:45:29.000
<v Speaker 1>in a halo. This is not the terrifying messenger who

0:45:29.040 --> 0:45:33.720
<v Speaker 1>carves the seven p's into Dante's forehead, right right, which

0:45:33.760 --> 0:45:36.120
<v Speaker 1>again I say, missed opportunity there. I'd love to hear

0:45:36.120 --> 0:45:38.480
<v Speaker 1>from anyone who has a more terrifying angel at the

0:45:38.480 --> 0:45:40.040
<v Speaker 1>top of their tree. I guess you could put. I

0:45:40.040 --> 0:45:42.560
<v Speaker 1>know they have ornaments of the what what are they?

0:45:42.560 --> 0:45:45.920
<v Speaker 1>The weeping angels from doctor who? So maybe some uh,

0:45:46.000 --> 0:45:47.960
<v Speaker 1>some doctor who fans out there have have those at

0:45:47.960 --> 0:45:51.080
<v Speaker 1>the top. Oh, that's not a bad idea, but uh,

0:45:51.440 --> 0:45:55.359
<v Speaker 1>to discuss what came before this this invention. Basically we're

0:45:55.400 --> 0:45:57.600
<v Speaker 1>using this is an excuse to talk about angels and

0:45:57.680 --> 0:46:00.200
<v Speaker 1>Christmas tree angels. Basically, the Angel of the top of

0:46:00.200 --> 0:46:03.760
<v Speaker 1>the Christmas Tree is there because the Angel Gabriel factors

0:46:03.800 --> 0:46:07.400
<v Speaker 1>into the Christmas story. Gabriel is the Angel of annunciation,

0:46:07.719 --> 0:46:10.920
<v Speaker 1>the messenger of the Almighty God that informs Mary that

0:46:11.040 --> 0:46:14.239
<v Speaker 1>she is pregnant with the Son of God. And just

0:46:14.280 --> 0:46:16.880
<v Speaker 1>to give you a taste of the the original Bible

0:46:17.000 --> 0:46:19.399
<v Speaker 1>literature here that is from the King James version UH

0:46:19.520 --> 0:46:24.400
<v Speaker 1>Luke one. And in the sixth Month, the Angel Gabriel

0:46:24.480 --> 0:46:28.200
<v Speaker 1>was sent from God into a city of Galilee named Nazareth,

0:46:28.600 --> 0:46:31.719
<v Speaker 1>to a virgin espouse to a man whose name was

0:46:31.800 --> 0:46:34.600
<v Speaker 1>Joseph of the House of David, and the virgin's name

0:46:35.000 --> 0:46:37.120
<v Speaker 1>was Mary. I believe it's also in the Gospel of

0:46:37.200 --> 0:46:40.360
<v Speaker 1>Luke that the Angel later at the birth of Jesus

0:46:40.440 --> 0:46:43.040
<v Speaker 1>appears to the shepherds and tells them the good news

0:46:43.080 --> 0:46:45.880
<v Speaker 1>that I'm unto them, My Savior is born right. And

0:46:45.920 --> 0:46:48.400
<v Speaker 1>I think that that if I'm not mistaken, that angel

0:46:48.560 --> 0:46:50.680
<v Speaker 1>is not named, but it's often assumed that it might

0:46:50.680 --> 0:46:53.200
<v Speaker 1>be the same angel, or I guess maybe angels working

0:46:53.200 --> 0:46:56.759
<v Speaker 1>for Gabriel. Uh. It's all a little vague, but but

0:46:56.840 --> 0:46:59.879
<v Speaker 1>Gabriel is often referred to as the Herald a ka

0:47:00.080 --> 0:47:02.040
<v Speaker 1>Harold Angel. You may have heard of him. He's been

0:47:02.120 --> 0:47:06.959
<v Speaker 1>heart the Herald Angel sings um. But Gabriel is also

0:47:07.040 --> 0:47:10.440
<v Speaker 1>sometimes referred to as the Angel of Death or though

0:47:10.480 --> 0:47:11.800
<v Speaker 1>the end of the one who will blow the final

0:47:11.800 --> 0:47:14.880
<v Speaker 1>trumpet before the end of time. He's also sometimes described

0:47:14.920 --> 0:47:19.480
<v Speaker 1>as a deathbad angel who eases people into the next life. Yeah,

0:47:19.520 --> 0:47:24.279
<v Speaker 1>the actual characteristics and individual identities of the angels and

0:47:24.320 --> 0:47:28.680
<v Speaker 1>their hierarchies are not really explored in what's usually considered

0:47:28.680 --> 0:47:31.800
<v Speaker 1>canonical biblical literature, but a lot of sort of apocryphal

0:47:31.880 --> 0:47:35.759
<v Speaker 1>and you know, extra canonical works. Now here's a fun fact.

0:47:35.760 --> 0:47:38.480
<v Speaker 1>According to Carol Rose, who often referred to for various

0:47:38.480 --> 0:47:42.879
<v Speaker 1>mythical and uh, you know, fanciful creatures, Rose points out

0:47:42.880 --> 0:47:46.600
<v Speaker 1>that the word angel derives from the Greek anglos and

0:47:46.640 --> 0:47:49.279
<v Speaker 1>would have been pronounced with a hard g up until

0:47:49.280 --> 0:47:51.839
<v Speaker 1>the end of the thirteenth century, in line with Old

0:47:51.840 --> 0:47:55.640
<v Speaker 1>English and Teutonic traditions, but then the French influence softens it.

0:47:56.560 --> 0:47:59.840
<v Speaker 1>That's interesting now, when you see the word angel appearing

0:48:00.120 --> 0:48:02.960
<v Speaker 1>like the Bible, that comes from word that originally just

0:48:03.040 --> 0:48:07.920
<v Speaker 1>means messenger, So like the angels are the messengers of

0:48:07.960 --> 0:48:11.799
<v Speaker 1>the divine realm. Yeah. Yeah, sometimes that message takes the

0:48:11.840 --> 0:48:14.880
<v Speaker 1>form of announcing a birth. Sometimes it's more than the

0:48:14.920 --> 0:48:18.040
<v Speaker 1>destruction of an entire city, that sort of thing. But

0:48:18.560 --> 0:48:21.160
<v Speaker 1>I have to say, growing up in Christianity, I often

0:48:21.200 --> 0:48:26.560
<v Speaker 1>gravitated towards the weirdness of angels because they were supernatural outsiders,

0:48:26.640 --> 0:48:29.399
<v Speaker 1>demi god like travelers, and there's of course a ton

0:48:29.440 --> 0:48:32.840
<v Speaker 1>of interesting material built up around them, from their depiction

0:48:32.960 --> 0:48:36.640
<v Speaker 1>throughout hard history, to their place in occult magic, to

0:48:36.719 --> 0:48:39.880
<v Speaker 1>their treatment in modern popular culture, and also in the

0:48:40.480 --> 0:48:44.560
<v Speaker 1>spiritual warfare fundamentalist theology that was popular back in the

0:48:44.600 --> 0:48:47.279
<v Speaker 1>ninety nineties, and I guess it's probably still popular in

0:48:47.320 --> 0:48:51.080
<v Speaker 1>some circles. But you know, angels were just this deeply

0:48:51.160 --> 0:48:56.120
<v Speaker 1>weird concept that was just an accepted aspect of religious reality. Well, yeah,

0:48:56.280 --> 0:48:59.600
<v Speaker 1>there is a funny irony and like the insistence of

0:49:00.040 --> 0:49:03.560
<v Speaker 1>the idea of monotheism, and yet there are these heavenly

0:49:03.600 --> 0:49:06.800
<v Speaker 1>beings called angels, and you might say, well, but they're

0:49:06.880 --> 0:49:11.040
<v Speaker 1>heavenly beings but not gods. And then you just get

0:49:11.080 --> 0:49:13.360
<v Speaker 1>into sort of like hair splitting over what the meaning

0:49:13.360 --> 0:49:14.960
<v Speaker 1>of God is because a lot of the things that

0:49:15.000 --> 0:49:18.240
<v Speaker 1>are called gods and what are openly acknowledged as polytheistic

0:49:18.280 --> 0:49:21.920
<v Speaker 1>religions actually in many ways are similar to what people

0:49:21.960 --> 0:49:26.000
<v Speaker 1>believe about angels and say Christianity. Yeah, because if you're

0:49:26.120 --> 0:49:28.120
<v Speaker 1>if you were like like I was, sometimes, if you're

0:49:28.160 --> 0:49:29.759
<v Speaker 1>board in church and you pick up the Bible and

0:49:29.760 --> 0:49:32.440
<v Speaker 1>you're like, well, I'm gonna read some angel stories, Uh,

0:49:32.480 --> 0:49:35.040
<v Speaker 1>You're gonna be a little disappointed because there's there's actually

0:49:35.120 --> 0:49:38.560
<v Speaker 1>not much angelic action in the Bible, just a handful

0:49:38.600 --> 0:49:42.480
<v Speaker 1>of occurrences, and there's nothing to explain why they exist.

0:49:42.520 --> 0:49:45.960
<v Speaker 1>There's no origin story or anything for the angels. Though,

0:49:45.960 --> 0:49:48.160
<v Speaker 1>if you want to get into stuff outside the biblical

0:49:48.200 --> 0:49:50.759
<v Speaker 1>canon about where the angels come from and all that,

0:49:50.840 --> 0:49:54.959
<v Speaker 1>you get some into some wild and awesome territory. Yeah,

0:49:54.960 --> 0:49:56.800
<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of a lot of great fan fiction

0:49:56.880 --> 0:49:59.680
<v Speaker 1>that it immerged throughout history about this. We'll feel like

0:49:59.680 --> 0:50:03.120
<v Speaker 1>we gotta explaying these guys where they come from. Um. So,

0:50:03.120 --> 0:50:04.840
<v Speaker 1>so I was looking into this a little bit for

0:50:04.840 --> 0:50:08.040
<v Speaker 1>for this episode, and uh I read uh the Archangel

0:50:08.080 --> 0:50:13.839
<v Speaker 1>Gabriel in History and Tradition by Roxana Eleana Yavashi. Uh,

0:50:13.880 --> 0:50:16.880
<v Speaker 1>and you've actually points out that the reason that angels

0:50:16.880 --> 0:50:20.400
<v Speaker 1>are basically taken for granted, both in Judaic and Christian traditions,

0:50:20.760 --> 0:50:23.239
<v Speaker 1>is that you did not need to explain them. They

0:50:23.239 --> 0:50:27.920
<v Speaker 1>are already part of our supernatural understanding of everyday reality

0:50:28.000 --> 0:50:31.000
<v Speaker 1>in the world. The author points out that Hebrew ideas

0:50:31.040 --> 0:50:36.760
<v Speaker 1>of angels were influenced by Babylonian angelology and also by Zoroastrianism.

0:50:37.640 --> 0:50:40.399
<v Speaker 1>So the idea, as they explain it, is that while

0:50:40.480 --> 0:50:44.880
<v Speaker 1>angelic beings, demi gods and you know, various intermediaries that

0:50:44.960 --> 0:50:48.440
<v Speaker 1>serve primarily as messengers are sometimes agents of another sort.

0:50:48.719 --> 0:50:52.319
<v Speaker 1>They certainly factor into various religious systems, including the polytheism

0:50:52.400 --> 0:50:55.520
<v Speaker 1>of ancient Egypt. You know, they're there. But but while

0:50:55.520 --> 0:51:00.359
<v Speaker 1>they are, they factor into polytheistic um pantheons. They are

0:51:00.400 --> 0:51:06.000
<v Speaker 1>a necessity, they write for monotheistic religions, as the monotheistic

0:51:06.040 --> 0:51:09.080
<v Speaker 1>God is ultimately faceless, or at least does not reveal

0:51:09.200 --> 0:51:12.120
<v Speaker 1>its face to humans. So for a god of God's

0:51:12.160 --> 0:51:15.920
<v Speaker 1>to do humanlike things, it has to send a humanlike messenger.

0:51:16.680 --> 0:51:19.799
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, that's kind of interesting. Now. I would say

0:51:19.800 --> 0:51:23.239
<v Speaker 1>that the idea of the monotheistic God is a like faceless,

0:51:23.280 --> 0:51:26.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, disembodied kind of spirit that has no form

0:51:26.960 --> 0:51:30.080
<v Speaker 1>of its own. Is a much later understanding of that.

0:51:30.120 --> 0:51:32.399
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I think the earlier visions of that God

0:51:32.440 --> 0:51:35.120
<v Speaker 1>would give would give him a body and give him

0:51:35.200 --> 0:51:39.960
<v Speaker 1>much more recognizably humanlike features. Right, Yeah, And as the

0:51:39.960 --> 0:51:42.920
<v Speaker 1>author points out again, you have various messengers and agents

0:51:42.920 --> 0:51:46.400
<v Speaker 1>popping up in various polytheistic religions, and of course I

0:51:46.440 --> 0:51:49.600
<v Speaker 1>instantly thought about the avatars and Hinduism, by which a

0:51:49.640 --> 0:51:52.960
<v Speaker 1>single divine entity may take various forms, you know, some

0:51:53.200 --> 0:51:56.520
<v Speaker 1>much more human than others. The author points out though,

0:51:56.560 --> 0:51:59.399
<v Speaker 1>that you know that this ultimately shows the continued role

0:51:59.480 --> 0:52:03.040
<v Speaker 1>of trans sentence in religion. There's this increasing distance in

0:52:03.120 --> 0:52:06.520
<v Speaker 1>religious tradition between the world of the gods in the

0:52:06.560 --> 0:52:09.920
<v Speaker 1>world of humans. So if you look back to Greek myths, uh,

0:52:09.960 --> 0:52:11.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, there's a lot of interplay between the gods

0:52:11.920 --> 0:52:14.640
<v Speaker 1>and humans, a lot of drama, direct drama between gods

0:52:14.640 --> 0:52:17.399
<v Speaker 1>and humans. You look to the Egyptian model, and there's

0:52:17.440 --> 0:52:19.799
<v Speaker 1>also this sense that this is all happening in the

0:52:19.840 --> 0:52:23.160
<v Speaker 1>same world in our world. But then there's this growing

0:52:23.200 --> 0:52:25.800
<v Speaker 1>distance between the place where God is and the place

0:52:25.800 --> 0:52:31.480
<v Speaker 1>where humans reside, and it then necessitates these holy intermediaries

0:52:32.480 --> 0:52:34.600
<v Speaker 1>where instead of God showing up and saying hey, I'm

0:52:34.600 --> 0:52:38.160
<v Speaker 1>a bit ticked at you over this, and angels like hey, um,

0:52:38.280 --> 0:52:40.680
<v Speaker 1>God sent me. Yeah, yeah, he's not really happy about

0:52:40.680 --> 0:52:43.640
<v Speaker 1>this whole apple thing. Or he said to call off

0:52:43.680 --> 0:52:46.000
<v Speaker 1>the whole sacrifice your kid thing. Yeah, yeah, I just

0:52:46.040 --> 0:52:50.600
<v Speaker 1>got the message to middle management. Yes. Now, just as

0:52:50.600 --> 0:52:53.640
<v Speaker 1>angels don't really have a huge presence in the Bible, uh,

0:52:53.680 --> 0:52:57.640
<v Speaker 1>they're also rarely named. Gabriel is the first angel mentioned

0:52:57.640 --> 0:52:59.759
<v Speaker 1>in the Book of Daniel, and he he doesn't have

0:52:59.760 --> 0:53:02.239
<v Speaker 1>a lot appears. I mean mostly it's just Michael the

0:53:02.360 --> 0:53:06.440
<v Speaker 1>Archangel as the other named angel um and as the

0:53:06.440 --> 0:53:09.040
<v Speaker 1>author points out here, Gabriel winds up doing quite a

0:53:09.040 --> 0:53:12.239
<v Speaker 1>bit of the heavy lifting. He interprets Daniel's visions. In

0:53:12.280 --> 0:53:15.759
<v Speaker 1>the Old Testament, he appears to Zacharias and announces the

0:53:15.760 --> 0:53:18.520
<v Speaker 1>birth of John the Baptist. In the New Testament, of course,

0:53:18.680 --> 0:53:21.360
<v Speaker 1>appears to marry like we already mentioned, and then in

0:53:21.480 --> 0:53:26.399
<v Speaker 1>Islamic tradition, he reveals the Koran to the prophet Mohammed. Yeah,

0:53:26.680 --> 0:53:29.560
<v Speaker 1>and of course there he has other adventures outside of

0:53:29.560 --> 0:53:34.520
<v Speaker 1>these books as well, various myths, legends, even pop cultural examples.

0:53:34.960 --> 0:53:37.680
<v Speaker 1>For instance, Uh, Gabriel shows up in various bits of

0:53:37.760 --> 0:53:41.080
<v Speaker 1>Jewish legend and lore, various bits of Islamic legend and lore,

0:53:41.719 --> 0:53:44.560
<v Speaker 1>so he's associated with the moon and early Jewish writings,

0:53:44.560 --> 0:53:48.640
<v Speaker 1>as well as in medieval Christian astrology. In Moroccan traditions,

0:53:48.719 --> 0:53:53.319
<v Speaker 1>he is a Sidna Jebri according to Carol Rose, and

0:53:53.440 --> 0:53:55.760
<v Speaker 1>is said to have delivered to Adam all the tools

0:53:55.800 --> 0:53:58.839
<v Speaker 1>that he needed to survive outside of Paradise, which kind

0:53:58.840 --> 0:54:01.960
<v Speaker 1>of makes him sound like a promethy Is figure. Oh yeah, totally.

0:54:02.160 --> 0:54:04.360
<v Speaker 1>Though also I would say in the Garden of Eden story,

0:54:04.560 --> 0:54:09.240
<v Speaker 1>the serpent itself is very much a Prometheus figure, that's right, Yeah,

0:54:09.239 --> 0:54:12.919
<v Speaker 1>I read that. In Northern English traditions, there's a We've

0:54:12.920 --> 0:54:15.560
<v Speaker 1>mentioned the Wild Hunt and various death dogs and hell

0:54:15.600 --> 0:54:18.480
<v Speaker 1>hounds on the show before. Uh, there are also the

0:54:18.480 --> 0:54:22.200
<v Speaker 1>Gabriel Hounds, which are you know, basically just death dogs

0:54:22.200 --> 0:54:24.239
<v Speaker 1>of the Wild Hunt. And then, of course we have

0:54:24.280 --> 0:54:29.200
<v Speaker 1>some very memorable performances from from recent film history in

0:54:29.239 --> 0:54:33.480
<v Speaker 1>which somebody plays Gabriel. Tilda Swinton played a rebel Gabriel

0:54:33.560 --> 0:54:38.720
<v Speaker 1>in two thousand five's Constantine, which um was maybe yeah,

0:54:38.880 --> 0:54:40.600
<v Speaker 1>I remember it as being fun. I haven't seen it

0:54:40.600 --> 0:54:43.640
<v Speaker 1>since it came out. It's probably an imperfect adaptation of

0:54:43.680 --> 0:54:46.080
<v Speaker 1>the comic book character, but it has a lot of

0:54:46.080 --> 0:54:48.719
<v Speaker 1>fun weirdness in it. I mean Tilda Swinton as a

0:54:48.719 --> 0:54:54.560
<v Speaker 1>rebel angel um, oh god, what's his name? Plays the devil? Oh?

0:54:54.600 --> 0:54:56.520
<v Speaker 1>I played with his name? He played Dino Velvet in

0:54:56.800 --> 0:55:05.920
<v Speaker 1>Um eight millimeter Hold on looking at Vigo Mortenson. No, no,

0:55:05.960 --> 0:55:08.239
<v Speaker 1>you're thinking of your thinking of the next film we're

0:55:08.239 --> 0:55:12.440
<v Speaker 1>going to talk about. Oh oh geez, sorry sorry sorry,

0:55:13.760 --> 0:55:17.719
<v Speaker 1>Peter storm Er. Yes, yes, he plays a wonderful kind

0:55:17.719 --> 0:55:24.000
<v Speaker 1>of like coked up Satan in that film We believe

0:55:24.040 --> 0:55:27.840
<v Speaker 1>in Nothing Gabriel Nothing. Yeah, yeah, he's a lot of

0:55:27.880 --> 0:55:30.560
<v Speaker 1>fun in that. And of course the other big Gabriel

0:55:30.600 --> 0:55:33.600
<v Speaker 1>performance that comes to mind Christopher Walkin as a rebel

0:55:33.640 --> 0:55:38.120
<v Speaker 1>Gabriel in three out of five Prophecy films with with

0:55:38.239 --> 0:55:41.200
<v Speaker 1>Vigo Mortenson as the devil in that one. Yeah, Vigo

0:55:41.280 --> 0:55:44.480
<v Speaker 1>played the devil in the first one, and um, yeah,

0:55:44.520 --> 0:55:46.719
<v Speaker 1>I think what who else was in that? A number

0:55:46.760 --> 0:55:49.160
<v Speaker 1>of of actors showed up in that franchise. Oh man,

0:55:49.200 --> 0:55:52.239
<v Speaker 1>I'm seeing lots of names of Virginia Madson of Highlander

0:55:52.280 --> 0:55:57.960
<v Speaker 1>to fame, Eric Stults, Eric Stults. That's right. Yeah, Elias Koteas,

0:55:59.239 --> 0:56:02.879
<v Speaker 1>Amanda Plumber. Wow, and for a written and directed by

0:56:03.760 --> 0:56:07.560
<v Speaker 1>the man who wrote Highlander, so it has strong Highlander

0:56:07.600 --> 0:56:13.919
<v Speaker 1>really Cannon, that's I mean, well, you know, it's like

0:56:13.920 --> 0:56:16.120
<v Speaker 1>like this, Like we've said before, there's the idea that

0:56:16.160 --> 0:56:19.440
<v Speaker 1>to understand the mythology, you have to you have to

0:56:19.560 --> 0:56:21.879
<v Speaker 1>accept all forms of the mythology, have to include all

0:56:21.920 --> 0:56:25.640
<v Speaker 1>forms of the myth, so we ultimately have to incorporate

0:56:25.840 --> 0:56:30.120
<v Speaker 1>um the prophecy films into our understanding of angelic lore.

0:56:31.000 --> 0:56:32.840
<v Speaker 1>I was just thinking about something that that's kind of

0:56:32.840 --> 0:56:35.839
<v Speaker 1>about Maybe the sexually isn't all that interesting, just let

0:56:35.840 --> 0:56:38.360
<v Speaker 1>me put it together. So in order to have a

0:56:38.400 --> 0:56:41.600
<v Speaker 1>really good understanding of a mythological tradition, you need to

0:56:41.640 --> 0:56:44.080
<v Speaker 1>know all of the versions of the myth that you

0:56:44.120 --> 0:56:45.640
<v Speaker 1>can and hold them all in your head at the

0:56:45.680 --> 0:56:48.080
<v Speaker 1>same time understand where they come from, how they fit together,

0:56:48.160 --> 0:56:50.399
<v Speaker 1>and how the myth varies in in all of its

0:56:50.400 --> 0:56:54.239
<v Speaker 1>different faces. But as we talked about last time, one

0:56:54.280 --> 0:56:56.720
<v Speaker 1>way in which you have to just pick one version

0:56:56.800 --> 0:56:59.600
<v Speaker 1>of the myth is if you're going to engage in

0:56:59.640 --> 0:57:02.160
<v Speaker 1>story helling, right, because you can't tell all versions of

0:57:02.160 --> 0:57:04.520
<v Speaker 1>the story at the same time, that's not enjoyable as

0:57:04.520 --> 0:57:07.480
<v Speaker 1>a story, So you have to pick one way there.

0:57:07.840 --> 0:57:09.840
<v Speaker 1>But the other time when you really have to pick

0:57:09.920 --> 0:57:13.000
<v Speaker 1>one version of the myth is if it's official dogma

0:57:13.239 --> 0:57:15.799
<v Speaker 1>and people have to believe it. If people have to

0:57:15.880 --> 0:57:18.360
<v Speaker 1>believe it, they have to believe it one way or another,

0:57:18.840 --> 0:57:21.200
<v Speaker 1>in which case you also have to pick one version

0:57:21.240 --> 0:57:23.520
<v Speaker 1>of the story. So I think that's kind of interesting

0:57:23.560 --> 0:57:26.360
<v Speaker 1>that whether you are trying to keep a child entertained

0:57:26.440 --> 0:57:28.600
<v Speaker 1>or whether you want to lay down the law, that's

0:57:28.640 --> 0:57:31.120
<v Speaker 1>when you have to pick one version and ignore all

0:57:31.120 --> 0:57:34.960
<v Speaker 1>the others. One exception of this that I like that

0:57:35.040 --> 0:57:38.720
<v Speaker 1>you you see occurring in various treatments, but one of

0:57:38.720 --> 0:57:43.080
<v Speaker 1>the most noteworthy is probably um that second Batman from

0:57:43.080 --> 0:57:46.000
<v Speaker 1>from Christopher Nolan, the one in which Heath Ledger plays

0:57:46.040 --> 0:57:50.680
<v Speaker 1>the Joker. Uh. The Joker gives his own origin story

0:57:51.040 --> 0:57:53.600
<v Speaker 1>what a couple or maybe three different times, and it's

0:57:53.640 --> 0:57:57.440
<v Speaker 1>always different. It's a play on that. Some say they

0:57:57.520 --> 0:57:59.880
<v Speaker 1>came from such and such, Some say was this, you know,

0:58:00.640 --> 0:58:05.840
<v Speaker 1>establishing multiple possible mythologies behind a character, which which I

0:58:05.880 --> 0:58:09.000
<v Speaker 1>kind of like, Well, I think that Joker is uh

0:58:09.400 --> 0:58:11.520
<v Speaker 1>that to sound really cool. I think that Heath Ledger

0:58:11.600 --> 0:58:16.880
<v Speaker 1>Joker is supposed to embody chaos and canonical unity is order.

0:58:17.840 --> 0:58:20.160
<v Speaker 1>Uh you know what that really means is in order

0:58:20.160 --> 0:58:22.760
<v Speaker 1>to understand the mythology you need to understand the chaos

0:58:22.760 --> 0:58:26.640
<v Speaker 1>of canonical diversity. Yeah, all right, sounds good to me.

0:58:27.760 --> 0:58:32.760
<v Speaker 1>Let's let's put that on the tree, Chaos angel to

0:58:32.800 --> 0:58:35.720
<v Speaker 1>go right at the top um. Because again, yeah, I'd

0:58:35.720 --> 0:58:39.640
<v Speaker 1>love to see some some Christmas angel tree toppers that

0:58:40.000 --> 0:58:42.600
<v Speaker 1>invoked some of these other ideas. I mean, there's some

0:58:42.680 --> 0:58:46.480
<v Speaker 1>really beautiful, weird visions of angels out there, and and

0:58:46.640 --> 0:58:50.520
<v Speaker 1>certainly you know, traditional artistic treatments, but also more modern stuff.

0:58:50.560 --> 0:58:54.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm thinking about the various like the seraphims of of

0:58:54.560 --> 0:58:58.440
<v Speaker 1>Michael W. Kaluda Um. Certainly you could put a Christopher

0:58:58.440 --> 0:59:00.200
<v Speaker 1>walking up there at the top. I think that would

0:59:00.200 --> 0:59:03.240
<v Speaker 1>be great. All right, Well, uh, Joe, I think we've

0:59:03.240 --> 0:59:06.400
<v Speaker 1>completely decorated this Christmas tree for the year. The trimming

0:59:06.480 --> 0:59:09.360
<v Speaker 1>is complete, and now it really it only remains for

0:59:09.440 --> 0:59:11.880
<v Speaker 1>us to put some presents underneath this tree. And by that,

0:59:12.040 --> 0:59:14.720
<v Speaker 1>I of course mean listener mail. We would love to

0:59:14.720 --> 0:59:17.320
<v Speaker 1>hear from everyone out there if you have some sort

0:59:17.360 --> 0:59:21.720
<v Speaker 1>of a Christmas tree or holiday decoration tradition that ties

0:59:21.760 --> 0:59:23.840
<v Speaker 1>into what we've discussed here. We'd love to hear from

0:59:23.840 --> 0:59:26.200
<v Speaker 1>you about it. Uh, you know, it's certainly not just

0:59:26.520 --> 0:59:30.280
<v Speaker 1>Christmas decorations. I'm oh, I'm very interested in very secular

0:59:30.480 --> 0:59:35.160
<v Speaker 1>holiday decoration traditions or some version of holiday traditions that

0:59:35.200 --> 0:59:39.520
<v Speaker 1>also meld with other systems of faith or mythologies or fandoms.

0:59:39.760 --> 0:59:41.440
<v Speaker 1>I think that's all on the table, and I want

0:59:41.480 --> 0:59:44.400
<v Speaker 1>to hear about it. Does anybody decorate their tree according

0:59:44.440 --> 0:59:49.440
<v Speaker 1>to the strict instructions of Hugo Elm with no deviations whatsoever?

0:59:49.560 --> 0:59:52.240
<v Speaker 1>If so, I want to know about that. Oh, man,

0:59:52.360 --> 0:59:54.560
<v Speaker 1>I I want to see a Hugo Elm tree. Now,

0:59:54.760 --> 0:59:58.200
<v Speaker 1>you know, it's it's basically like to come back to

0:59:58.240 --> 1:00:01.080
<v Speaker 1>the Bible. It's like the the the instructions of how

1:00:01.120 --> 1:00:04.000
<v Speaker 1>to build the tent that houses the Ark of the Covenant.

1:00:04.040 --> 1:00:07.320
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's so specific, but surely somebody's recreated it.

1:00:07.840 --> 1:00:13.000
<v Speaker 1>You shall decorate, as the common daunt says. All right.

1:00:13.400 --> 1:00:14.840
<v Speaker 1>In the meantime, if you want to check out other

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