WEBVTT - Not Lost Chat: Where Am I? (Jessica Nabongo & Tegan and Sara) 0:00:15.316 --> 0:00:26.036 Pushkin. Hey everyone, So in this episode of Not Lost Chat, 0:00:26.796 --> 0:00:31.676 I speak with writer and traveler Jessica to Bongo, and 0:00:32.236 --> 0:00:37.876 as you'll learn, she's been to every recognized country in 0:00:37.916 --> 0:00:43.036 the world, which is incredible. I mean, I've been to 0:00:44.036 --> 0:00:48.436 every recognized pizza shop in North Brooklyn, but foreign countries. 0:00:49.236 --> 0:00:50.596 Let's just say, I'm going to have to get to 0:00:50.596 --> 0:00:53.276 work if I want to catch up with her. But 0:00:54.036 --> 0:00:56.956 reading her book to Catch Me if you can, did 0:00:56.996 --> 0:01:00.476 get me thinking about, you know, where was the furthest 0:01:00.556 --> 0:01:03.916 that I've ever gone from home? And I started reminisce 0:01:03.956 --> 0:01:09.476 about adventures in Brazil and Japan and Estonia. And I 0:01:09.556 --> 0:01:12.996 was going to write a kind of moody intro essay 0:01:13.156 --> 0:01:17.116 to put here, you know, part tone poem, part personal reflection, 0:01:17.756 --> 0:01:22.796 some musical flourishes. But then a guy on the l 0:01:22.876 --> 0:01:31.036 train coughed in my face and I contracted RSV. So 0:01:31.396 --> 0:01:33.156 that's going to have to wait until the next episode. 0:01:33.676 --> 0:01:36.996 But don't worry, because there is lots of fun content 0:01:37.156 --> 0:01:40.676 in store for you. In this episode, they're listening to 0:01:41.196 --> 0:01:46.316 the aforementioned Jessica Nabongo will tell us about her travel adventures, 0:01:46.836 --> 0:01:50.876 including the scariest place she's ever been hint she didn't 0:01:50.876 --> 0:01:54.636 need a passport to go there. Also, the musical duo 0:01:54.796 --> 0:01:58.996 The Twins, the sisters Tegan and Sarah, come by and 0:01:59.556 --> 0:02:02.396 talk about the touring life. They've been touring since they 0:02:02.396 --> 0:02:05.116 were teenagers. Before they could drive, they used to take 0:02:05.116 --> 0:02:07.676 a greyhound between gigs, and while now they have an 0:02:07.796 --> 0:02:10.636 entire bus. They talk about that and they answer listen 0:02:10.676 --> 0:02:14.516 to travel questions. So stick around, and I promise that 0:02:14.596 --> 0:02:18.236 you'll learn at least one interesting thing. Again, this show's 0:02:18.276 --> 0:02:19.876 really blowing my mind because I feel like I'm like 0:02:20.116 --> 0:02:22.436 leaving with two like brand new thoughts in my brain. 0:02:22.556 --> 0:02:27.996 All right, two two interesting things more after sigh these 0:02:28.036 --> 0:02:36.196 advertisements welcome back to Not Lost Chat, my series of 0:02:36.236 --> 0:02:40.796 conversations with fellow travelers. I am Brendan Franz's Nunham. The 0:02:40.836 --> 0:02:44.276 idea behind this series was for me to talk to 0:02:44.596 --> 0:02:48.796 people in the travel space, because when I did the 0:02:48.796 --> 0:02:51.116 first season of the show, I wasn't really one of 0:02:51.116 --> 0:02:53.996 those people. I had had a travel column, I was 0:02:54.036 --> 0:02:57.316 a traveler. I did do some writing, but I was 0:02:57.516 --> 0:03:00.396 blinging it. And so now that I'm here, I thought, 0:03:00.836 --> 0:03:04.716 let me meet other folks who've been here, and we're 0:03:04.716 --> 0:03:06.916 going to talk to lots of writers and people who've 0:03:06.956 --> 0:03:10.236 spent their time thinking about travel. But if you're thinking 0:03:10.236 --> 0:03:13.476 about the modern world and traveling, you can't help but 0:03:13.636 --> 0:03:19.516 think of influencers, those modern sentinels on the lookout for 0:03:19.836 --> 0:03:24.476 all that is glamorous and instagrammable. And my guest today 0:03:24.716 --> 0:03:28.636 might be considered an influencer, but her writing and mission 0:03:28.756 --> 0:03:32.916 are a bit more substitutive than say, bathing suit selfies 0:03:32.996 --> 0:03:38.676 with an endangered species. Jessica Nobongo is basically a professional traveler. 0:03:39.356 --> 0:03:42.196 She is also the first black American woman to document 0:03:42.316 --> 0:03:45.996 visiting every single country in the world, and earlier this year, 0:03:46.076 --> 0:03:48.676 she published a book about her travels called The Catch 0:03:48.756 --> 0:03:52.876 Me if you Can, And that title totally fits because 0:03:52.996 --> 0:03:56.316 Jessica was kind of hard to catch. She's always on 0:03:56.316 --> 0:03:59.396 the move. But thanks to some deft sleuthing on my 0:03:59.476 --> 0:04:03.116 part and her book publicist, I was able to get 0:04:03.116 --> 0:04:10.796 some time with her while she was temporarily on the ground. Well, 0:04:10.796 --> 0:04:13.596 I guess my first question is just where are you now? 0:04:13.796 --> 0:04:17.396 And no idea where you are? I am in West 0:04:17.436 --> 0:04:21.396 Hollywood right now. I just got back in the country Thursday. 0:04:21.396 --> 0:04:25.116 Are you just constantly a little bit disoriented? Like about 0:04:25.156 --> 0:04:27.356 what the weather is, what day it is, like, what's 0:04:27.356 --> 0:04:30.596 happening in your town. I recall a couple of years 0:04:30.596 --> 0:04:33.556 ago being in a target and literally, for like maybe 0:04:33.596 --> 0:04:36.516 fifteen seconds, I could not remember what city I was 0:04:36.556 --> 0:04:40.156 in because it's like, wait, where am I It's it's 0:04:40.196 --> 0:04:42.236 the weirdest thing in the world. So I never know 0:04:42.276 --> 0:04:46.476 what day it is like that is always elusive. You've 0:04:46.516 --> 0:04:50.116 outstripped your consciousness, like you've traveled so much. You are 0:04:50.156 --> 0:04:54.476 a pure traveler, and I'm wondering, how do you describe yourself? 0:04:56.076 --> 0:05:00.716 You know, I'm someone where travel is the air that 0:05:00.796 --> 0:05:03.836 I breathe, you know, like I've been traveling internationally since 0:05:03.876 --> 0:05:07.036 I was for My family is from Uganda, so it's 0:05:07.036 --> 0:05:10.636 really something that we've always done. Every summer when I 0:05:10.676 --> 0:05:13.596 was little, we did something, whether it was camping in 0:05:13.636 --> 0:05:16.156 the US, going on an American road trip, or going 0:05:16.236 --> 0:05:18.876 to the Cayman Islands or Jamaica or back to Uganda. 0:05:18.996 --> 0:05:21.396 We did something. So, you know, a lot of people 0:05:21.476 --> 0:05:23.196 have asked me, oh, you've been to every country in 0:05:23.196 --> 0:05:25.916 the world. Are you going to stop traveling? For me, 0:05:25.996 --> 0:05:28.716 it wasn't like I have this goal, I'm going to 0:05:28.836 --> 0:05:31.756 do it and then I'm done because travel is a 0:05:31.796 --> 0:05:34.996 part of me, you know, Like now I'm set to 0:05:35.036 --> 0:05:36.836 be on the ground for like two and a half weeks, 0:05:36.836 --> 0:05:38.316 and I'm like, Okay, I have to book a flight. 0:05:38.356 --> 0:05:43.476 I have to go somewhere. You're getting itchy feet. Yeah. Well, look, 0:05:43.596 --> 0:05:45.156 one of the many things I learned in your book 0:05:45.276 --> 0:05:49.476 is that there's this culture of country counters, which is 0:05:50.316 --> 0:05:53.276 which which are almost they're rarer than astronauts or something. 0:05:53.356 --> 0:05:55.236 Can you tell me a little bit about this class 0:05:55.236 --> 0:05:59.036 of people. Yes, there's a group of lunatics from different 0:05:59.036 --> 0:06:02.676 countries around the world. Yeah, so the country counting community 0:06:03.236 --> 0:06:06.076 there might be more than astronauts, but as far as 0:06:06.116 --> 0:06:08.796 people who've been to every country in the world, there's 0:06:08.836 --> 0:06:10.956 less and three hundred some more people have definitely been 0:06:10.996 --> 0:06:12.956 to outer space than have been to every country in 0:06:12.996 --> 0:06:17.036 the world. I stumbled upon this group in twenty seventeen. 0:06:17.156 --> 0:06:19.756 I had already been to sixty countries and I was 0:06:19.956 --> 0:06:23.196 a country counter, but I didn't know there were other 0:06:23.236 --> 0:06:27.116 weirdos like me out there, people who are filling in 0:06:27.156 --> 0:06:30.876 these maps. And it's a really great community because people 0:06:30.916 --> 0:06:35.516 are supportive and share resources. Obviously, some countries are easier 0:06:35.556 --> 0:06:39.036 to navigate than others. So people often share fixers for 0:06:39.116 --> 0:06:42.876 certain countries, you know, and just give tips and advice. 0:06:43.236 --> 0:06:45.636 But you know, I think the important thing is because now, 0:06:45.636 --> 0:06:46.956 of course, a lot of people are like, well, I 0:06:46.956 --> 0:06:48.476 want to go to every country in the world. And 0:06:49.116 --> 0:06:52.036 I always tell people what is your why? You know, 0:06:52.236 --> 0:06:54.596 like do you want to just go to every country 0:06:54.676 --> 0:06:57.156 so that you can say you did it, or do 0:06:57.276 --> 0:07:00.996 you have a real mission behind it? And you know, 0:07:01.116 --> 0:07:04.436 for me, my mission I was driven by my own 0:07:04.436 --> 0:07:08.356 personal curiosity and as media around my journey picked up, 0:07:08.436 --> 0:07:10.836 like most of the people who've been to every country 0:07:10.836 --> 0:07:14.836 in the world are white men, didn't specifically like Northern Europeans, 0:07:14.836 --> 0:07:19.276 so like Germans and Danes and Norwegians. Um, I guess 0:07:19.276 --> 0:07:26.236 it's the Viking thing. I have no idea, right right 0:07:26.276 --> 0:07:31.796 exactly living different types of lifestyles. And so for me, 0:07:32.116 --> 0:07:33.876 I was the first black woman to do it. I 0:07:34.276 --> 0:07:36.756 don't even know if we're at fifty women yet who 0:07:36.836 --> 0:07:39.236 have done it. I don't think fifty women have done 0:07:39.236 --> 0:07:41.996 it yet. So it's a different experience, you know, Like 0:07:42.076 --> 0:07:45.076 dealing with immigration was not always easy. If I was 0:07:45.196 --> 0:07:48.636 using my American passport, sometimes they thought that it was fake. 0:07:48.756 --> 0:07:51.156 If I was using my Ugunan passport, they thought that 0:07:51.196 --> 0:07:55.156 I was going to overstay my visa. So I've been detained, 0:07:55.596 --> 0:07:59.876 you know, harassed by multiple immigrations around the world. But 0:07:59.956 --> 0:08:02.636 I will say, for me, one of the biggest lessons 0:08:02.676 --> 0:08:05.436 I learned is that no matter all of that, most 0:08:05.436 --> 0:08:08.036 people are good. And so for me, like the people 0:08:08.076 --> 0:08:12.596 in the country exist on a different plane than the government, right, 0:08:13.036 --> 0:08:15.876 and I don't conflate the two. So no matter what 0:08:15.996 --> 0:08:18.356 nonsense I deal with at the border, I'm not going 0:08:18.396 --> 0:08:20.596 to put that on the people of that country because 0:08:20.596 --> 0:08:23.876 I'm also like, I don't want people to associate me 0:08:23.956 --> 0:08:27.116 with either of my governments, the US or the Ugandan government, 0:08:27.196 --> 0:08:31.636 Like I like to be looked at as an independent person. Yeah, yeah, 0:08:31.676 --> 0:08:34.036 I mean that's still a graceful way to look at it. Well, 0:08:34.036 --> 0:08:35.636 you said a lot there, and I want to like 0:08:35.716 --> 0:08:37.716 unpack a little bit of it. You write in your 0:08:37.756 --> 0:08:41.236 book about how you are perceived as African instead of 0:08:41.756 --> 0:08:45.476 Black American, and I wondered if you could talk about 0:08:45.476 --> 0:08:48.756 how that affects your experience traveling versus maybe some of 0:08:48.756 --> 0:08:53.076 your friends. Yeah, for sure, you know, blackness is not 0:08:53.156 --> 0:08:58.116 a monolith. And those blue American passports, as powerful as 0:08:58.116 --> 0:09:01.316 they are, it doesn't work the same for everyone. The 0:09:01.596 --> 0:09:04.916 world is decidedly anti African. I mean, we can look 0:09:04.916 --> 0:09:08.036 at it from the refugee crisis in Europe a few 0:09:08.116 --> 0:09:11.476 years ago to how they responded to Ukrainian refugees, right, Like, 0:09:11.556 --> 0:09:15.596 that's a very clear difference that we can acknowledge. And 0:09:15.716 --> 0:09:18.876 just the way that Africans are treated, not only in 0:09:18.956 --> 0:09:22.996 terms of economics and bilateral association between governments, but just 0:09:23.076 --> 0:09:25.676 in terms of television, all of the things. Right, And 0:09:25.716 --> 0:09:30.876 so for me, I recognize clearly how I'm treated as 0:09:30.996 --> 0:09:34.516 an African versus a Black American because I travel with 0:09:34.556 --> 0:09:37.156 my black American friends and so you know, they'll go 0:09:37.196 --> 0:09:40.596 through immigration and they're gone, and then I'm stuck and 0:09:40.676 --> 0:09:43.156 I'm being detained, and I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait, 0:09:43.156 --> 0:09:45.556 we just came back from the same place. We both 0:09:45.596 --> 0:09:49.036 have American passports. Why am I being detained? And it's 0:09:49.076 --> 0:09:52.916 this idea that Number one, I guess Africans can't be American, 0:09:52.956 --> 0:09:55.876 which is weird because anybody can be American. That's kind 0:09:55.916 --> 0:09:59.516 of our thing. And then you know, when I'm using 0:09:59.516 --> 0:10:03.596 my Ugnan passport, is this assumption that somehow our countries 0:10:03.636 --> 0:10:07.716 are so terrible that no one with a Ugunan passport 0:10:07.796 --> 0:10:10.956 or any African passport can just go on holiday somewhere 0:10:11.356 --> 0:10:14.836 and then go back home. Right. Like, there's that idea 0:10:14.876 --> 0:10:17.156 that if they're crossing a border, they have to want 0:10:17.196 --> 0:10:20.676 to live in our countries, and it's like, actually, truth 0:10:20.756 --> 0:10:23.956 be told, there's a lot of African countries I'd rather 0:10:23.996 --> 0:10:26.476 live in than you know, the US, or a lot 0:10:26.516 --> 0:10:28.796 of European countries for sure. I mean, I'm thinking of 0:10:28.796 --> 0:10:30.836 the picture you have in your book of the sunset 0:10:30.836 --> 0:10:33.996 in Uganda right over the lake, and like that alone 0:10:34.116 --> 0:10:38.196 is would draw one back. You also write about how 0:10:38.316 --> 0:10:42.316 the scariest country you visited is America, Like quite literally, 0:10:42.356 --> 0:10:46.196 the experiences you had here were more searing, it seems. Yeah. 0:10:46.236 --> 0:10:49.236 I mean, you know, the first time I saw a gun, 0:10:49.476 --> 0:10:51.956 I was looking at a point blank range and on 0:10:51.956 --> 0:10:54.716 the other side of it was Miami PD because they 0:10:54.756 --> 0:10:57.996 thought I was breaking into my friend's house. I mean, 0:10:58.076 --> 0:11:01.356 I can remember coming back from a work trip to 0:11:01.396 --> 0:11:05.276 Ethiopia and DC I was at dullest, got through immigration, 0:11:05.356 --> 0:11:08.316 went to customs and they asked for my passport and 0:11:08.356 --> 0:11:11.796 then asked me for another form of ID, and I'm like, what, 0:11:12.556 --> 0:11:15.636 my United States passport is not good enough to get 0:11:15.676 --> 0:11:19.956 me into the United States? You know, like that still 0:11:20.436 --> 0:11:23.796 is absolutely one of the most absurd things that happened. 0:11:23.876 --> 0:11:27.596 But I think just generally, the anxiety that I have 0:11:27.836 --> 0:11:31.876 when I'm in the US is unlike being anywhere else, 0:11:31.916 --> 0:11:34.316 whether it's landing and not knowing if I'm going to 0:11:34.396 --> 0:11:39.556 be harassed at immigration or just fear of like knowing 0:11:39.596 --> 0:11:41.996 that there's so many guns in rotation. I mean, and 0:11:42.076 --> 0:11:46.516 it's so often now we barely blink at mass shootings anymore. Yeah, 0:11:46.516 --> 0:11:48.956 you know, like I just can't wrap my mind around it. 0:11:49.076 --> 0:11:50.556 You know, at one point in your book, you quote 0:11:50.556 --> 0:11:54.916 Malcolm X and you quote American propaganda is designed to 0:11:54.956 --> 0:11:56.836 make us think that no matter how much hell we 0:11:56.916 --> 0:11:59.676 catch here, we're still better off in America than we'd 0:11:59.716 --> 0:12:02.876 be anywhere else. And the WII there is he's talking 0:12:02.916 --> 0:12:05.436 about black Americans. I feel like the we now as 0:12:05.476 --> 0:12:11.236 all of us though, But yes, definitely. You know a 0:12:11.276 --> 0:12:14.796 lot of people will semi messages and say which countries 0:12:14.796 --> 0:12:18.036 are safe for black people to travel to. I know 0:12:18.076 --> 0:12:20.316 where it comes from, but I hate it because there's 0:12:20.356 --> 0:12:23.676 this lack of freedom, that people feel like this idea 0:12:23.796 --> 0:12:27.836 that their blackness is such a weight that they can't 0:12:27.876 --> 0:12:31.396 travel the world freely. And so part of it, not 0:12:31.436 --> 0:12:33.356 only with the book and the imagery in the book, 0:12:33.396 --> 0:12:37.076 but just my Instagram and everything I do is showing 0:12:37.156 --> 0:12:40.596 me in all of these places. Because have I had 0:12:40.676 --> 0:12:44.436 some bad travel experiences, yeah, but very very few compared 0:12:44.476 --> 0:12:47.676 to how much I travel, Very very few negative experiences, 0:12:48.196 --> 0:12:51.556 And like, I'm unmistakably black, you know, and I go 0:12:51.596 --> 0:12:54.476 in places and I've been welcomed, and I visit rural 0:12:54.516 --> 0:12:58.396 parts of like Kyrgyzstan. I remember being in rural Kyrgyzstan 0:12:58.636 --> 0:13:01.196 and I was walking across the street to get a 0:13:01.276 --> 0:13:04.196 SIM card and cars were stopping and staring. I was like, oh, yeah, 0:13:04.236 --> 0:13:06.516 I forgot I'm black, you know, because I just wasn't 0:13:06.556 --> 0:13:10.676 thinking about it, you know, And it was hilarious. But 0:13:10.836 --> 0:13:14.356 I really hope that not only for black people but 0:13:14.396 --> 0:13:18.596 also women traveling solo. I hope that people see my 0:13:18.756 --> 0:13:22.636 journey and gives them a sense of freedom, you know. 0:13:22.756 --> 0:13:25.236 And I know that has been the outcome because I 0:13:25.276 --> 0:13:28.596 get messages, emails, dms, whatever from people saying I went 0:13:28.716 --> 0:13:31.196 here because of you. I was afraid. My family told 0:13:31.196 --> 0:13:33.116 me to be afraid, but seeing me go, they went. 0:13:33.476 --> 0:13:36.116 So I'm glad that my journey has really released some 0:13:36.196 --> 0:13:38.996 fear for people. It makes me think of that. There's 0:13:38.996 --> 0:13:42.076 a Mark Twain quote which I will misquote and paraphrase, 0:13:42.196 --> 0:13:47.396 but basically how travel is the biggest and adode to prejudice, right. 0:13:47.516 --> 0:13:49.676 It's being there interacting with the people that are really 0:13:49.676 --> 0:13:53.596 just going to break through any kind of preconceptions you have. Absolutely, 0:13:53.596 --> 0:13:55.996 And that's the other big thing I learned from visiting 0:13:56.036 --> 0:13:58.396 every country in the world. We're more similar than we 0:13:58.436 --> 0:14:01.556 are different. So for me, that's why I always say 0:14:01.596 --> 0:14:04.196 the world is our neighborhood. So it's about being a 0:14:04.236 --> 0:14:07.876 good neighbor. Because, first of all, borders are fiction. Borders 0:14:07.876 --> 0:14:11.196 are just geopolitical lines on a map, but they don't 0:14:11.236 --> 0:14:14.596 actually mean anything. We're all sharing this planet together, so 0:14:15.636 --> 0:14:19.396 we have to stop thinking about ourselves as Americans and 0:14:19.476 --> 0:14:23.196 Canadians or Ugundans, whatever it is, because we're all in 0:14:23.236 --> 0:14:25.796 this together, and when this planet blows up on us, 0:14:26.076 --> 0:14:28.036 it's not going to be like, oh, well, you have 0:14:28.116 --> 0:14:30.996 a strong passport, we're gonna save you. No, we're all 0:14:31.036 --> 0:14:33.916 going down. You talk about the you know, the eurocentric 0:14:33.956 --> 0:14:38.836 bucket lists that exists for various reasons, and this book 0:14:38.916 --> 0:14:42.116 is a corrective for that in many ways you want 0:14:42.156 --> 0:14:45.236 to speak to that. I love that it is a corrective, Yeah, 0:14:45.276 --> 0:14:49.676 because I think for too long and still ongoing, the 0:14:49.716 --> 0:14:52.836 powers that be are still mostly white men in terms 0:14:52.876 --> 0:14:55.196 of telling us where to go, what to do. We 0:14:55.196 --> 0:14:57.676 look at Kane Nash Traveler, we look at Traveling Leisure, 0:14:57.796 --> 0:15:01.876 even my publisher, National Geographic. There's not that much diversity 0:15:01.916 --> 0:15:05.396 of those telling us this is what should be on 0:15:05.476 --> 0:15:09.116 your bucket list. A lot of the people writing haven't 0:15:09.236 --> 0:15:11.876 been to the continent. Because to me, if you go 0:15:11.956 --> 0:15:19.996 to a place like Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania, Ghana, Senegal, South Africa, Botswana, Namibia, 0:15:20.276 --> 0:15:23.916 these are amazing countries where I have always felt one 0:15:24.116 --> 0:15:29.996 hundred percent safe, they have great tourism infrastructure, and in 0:15:30.036 --> 0:15:34.476 some cases they're relatively affordable to visit. So to me, 0:15:34.516 --> 0:15:37.476 I'm just like, I mean, I look at the New 0:15:37.556 --> 0:15:40.556 York Times fifty two places to visit. I look at 0:15:40.596 --> 0:15:42.996 all of these lists every year and I always roll 0:15:43.116 --> 0:15:47.196 my eyes because I'm just like, Yeah, Vermont is amazing, 0:15:47.436 --> 0:15:50.516 but what about Madagascar? You know what I mean. For me, 0:15:50.716 --> 0:15:54.756 I'm just like, come on, y'all, so you know, for 0:15:54.796 --> 0:15:57.596 those listening, I'm here to help you make your twenty 0:15:57.636 --> 0:16:00.956 twenty four lists. Let me know if you need my help. 0:16:01.356 --> 0:16:04.036 I mean, that's part of why among the reasons I 0:16:04.036 --> 0:16:06.756 wanted to have you on is you know, I'm talking 0:16:06.756 --> 0:16:09.636 with travel writers and travel thinkers, and when you make 0:16:09.676 --> 0:16:12.396 that list it is embarrassing. And I was going to 0:16:12.436 --> 0:16:14.916 ask you, and maybe this is too reductive, but like, 0:16:15.636 --> 0:16:18.196 what do you you know? Like why do you travel? 0:16:18.556 --> 0:16:20.916 But when part of why I travel, I think is 0:16:21.636 --> 0:16:24.876 collecting wisdom? You know, when why am I like talking 0:16:24.876 --> 0:16:26.596 to all these people? What am I looking for? I 0:16:26.636 --> 0:16:29.076 don't know what I'm looking for, but I know I 0:16:29.076 --> 0:16:32.436 am just trying to find some sort of wisdom about 0:16:32.476 --> 0:16:35.956 the world. What about you? What are you looking for? No, 0:16:36.076 --> 0:16:39.796 I think what's kept it going is I'm so curious. 0:16:39.836 --> 0:16:44.676 I am like a child, and I love asking questions. 0:16:44.836 --> 0:16:48.396 And I love visiting new places more than I like 0:16:48.596 --> 0:16:53.876 visiting old places. You know. I really novelty, Yeah, for sure. 0:16:53.876 --> 0:16:58.596 And I think studying basically my degree was global economic 0:16:58.636 --> 0:17:03.316 and political history, So for me, it's just so interesting 0:17:03.356 --> 0:17:06.916 to go to these countries, knowing their political history, knowing 0:17:06.956 --> 0:17:10.236 their economic history. And I'm person who I feel like 0:17:10.316 --> 0:17:12.316 we all have something to teach and we all have 0:17:12.396 --> 0:17:14.716 something to learn. So if you're open, you can learn 0:17:14.796 --> 0:17:19.156 something new every day. I love that. Yeah, well, Jessica, 0:17:19.516 --> 0:17:22.076 I think that we should end it on that great point. 0:17:22.196 --> 0:17:25.516 I want to thank you so much for chatting with 0:17:25.516 --> 0:17:27.636 me and for putting this book together and sharing it 0:17:27.676 --> 0:17:33.676 with the world. Jessica Nobongo's book is called The Catch 0:17:33.716 --> 0:17:36.516 Me if you Can, and it is a really great 0:17:36.556 --> 0:17:38.996 place to start if you are looking to fill the 0:17:39.036 --> 0:17:42.956 blind spots in your travel itinerary. And it's not just 0:17:43.076 --> 0:17:46.316 pictures and places. It has lots of neat little information 0:17:46.596 --> 0:17:51.156 like this scary fact. In twenty eighteen, in the USA, 0:17:51.436 --> 0:17:56.116 seven hundred and sixty eight million vacation days went unused. 0:17:57.436 --> 0:18:02.636 Whoa right. So if you need some ideas about where 0:18:02.676 --> 0:18:04.636 you should go, you can check out the book or 0:18:05.196 --> 0:18:09.716 Jessica's Instagram page at Jessica Nobongo. The beauty full images 0:18:09.756 --> 0:18:15.916 on her grid will be certain to influence you. All Right, Well, 0:18:15.956 --> 0:18:18.076 after a quick break, we're going to move from traveling 0:18:18.076 --> 0:18:21.316 for pleasure to traveling for work. And I don't mean 0:18:21.356 --> 0:18:23.596 a two day convention at the Chicago Hyatt. I am 0:18:23.596 --> 0:18:26.596 talking about months and months on the road. Here you 0:18:26.636 --> 0:18:29.116 are on a bus like you're a grown adult, sleeping 0:18:29.516 --> 0:18:33.516 within inches of other adults. It's very intimate and uncomfortable, 0:18:33.996 --> 0:18:37.556 and I've adapted to that by being able to like 0:18:37.876 --> 0:18:40.356 dissociate on some levels when you need to kind of 0:18:40.356 --> 0:18:44.996 ghost walk. Canadian indie pop duo Tegan Sarah stop by 0:18:45.156 --> 0:18:47.556 to talk about the touring life and to answer your 0:18:47.556 --> 0:19:10.676 travel questions. When Not Lost returns welcome back to Not 0:19:10.796 --> 0:19:15.116 Lost Chat. Hey, that almost rhymes welcome back to Not 0:19:15.196 --> 0:19:18.516 Lost Chat. It is now time for the part of 0:19:18.516 --> 0:19:21.596 the podcast where I invite someone more qualified than me 0:19:22.116 --> 0:19:25.156 to help answer your travel questions, and today I invited 0:19:25.356 --> 0:19:28.676 two people to assist me. They're kind of a package deal. 0:19:29.356 --> 0:19:32.956 Tegan and Sarah are an indie pop duo hailing from 0:19:32.996 --> 0:19:36.196 the Great Nation of Canada. And as always, if any 0:19:36.316 --> 0:19:40.156 Canadian immigration authorities happen to be listening, please slide into 0:19:40.196 --> 0:19:43.436 my DMS at b F Newnham so we can start 0:19:43.476 --> 0:19:48.116 building my new life in Montreal. Thank you anyway. Teagan 0:19:48.156 --> 0:19:52.316 and Sarah are identical twins queer icons. They are known 0:19:52.356 --> 0:19:55.196 for their catchy hooks and on stage banter. They also 0:19:55.236 --> 0:19:59.476 became best selling authors after publishing their memoir called High School, 0:19:59.956 --> 0:20:02.676 which is their story of teen angst and their search 0:20:02.756 --> 0:20:05.756 for separate identities. It is now a show on Amazon, 0:20:05.916 --> 0:20:09.236 also called High School. And these super twins all so 0:20:09.356 --> 0:20:12.876 just finished touring for their new album, cry Baby. They've 0:20:12.876 --> 0:20:15.756 been touring as a duo since they were teenagers. Back 0:20:15.796 --> 0:20:18.676 then they got from show to show via Greyhound bus. 0:20:19.116 --> 0:20:22.196 Now when they tour, they have an entire bus to themselves, 0:20:23.196 --> 0:20:27.276 well them their crew, a sort of family members and 0:20:27.436 --> 0:20:31.476 now babies. Oh and a quick note about this interview. 0:20:32.276 --> 0:20:35.396 Tegan and Sarah are twins. They do sometimes sound similar. 0:20:35.636 --> 0:20:38.516 In fact, when I conducted this interview over zoom, every 0:20:38.556 --> 0:20:40.756 once in a while I would discreetly mouse over the 0:20:40.796 --> 0:20:43.436 window so that their respective names would pop up under 0:20:43.476 --> 0:20:46.036 the images and I could remember who is who. I mean, 0:20:46.076 --> 0:20:48.436 there are so many amazing things about touring on a bus. 0:20:48.476 --> 0:20:50.276 I mean, the fact that you get to sleep overnight 0:20:50.396 --> 0:20:52.236 is really nice rather than having to drive all day. 0:20:52.436 --> 0:20:56.476 That is Teagan, who plays guitar, keyboards and sings. She's 0:20:56.476 --> 0:20:59.196 also wearing a hot pink hat during our interview I 0:20:59.276 --> 0:21:01.636 can't reveal the name of the star, but we know 0:21:01.716 --> 0:21:03.956 someone who has toured with one of the largest artists 0:21:03.956 --> 0:21:07.236 in the world, and that is Sarah, who also plays guitar, 0:21:07.316 --> 0:21:10.196 keys and sings. And it's also wearing a hot pink 0:21:10.236 --> 0:21:13.516 hat during our interview. Not confusing at all. This is 0:21:13.556 --> 0:21:16.356 like private jets, like the whole thing. And he recently 0:21:16.396 --> 0:21:18.836 was describing to me a scenario in which this person 0:21:19.596 --> 0:21:22.716 how they deal with a show and sleeping and getting 0:21:22.756 --> 0:21:26.236 to the next show, like the suitcases and the family 0:21:26.276 --> 0:21:28.716 and the entourage and everything is just sounded like kyos 0:21:28.716 --> 0:21:31.236 and it's like not RESTful. And this person, you know, 0:21:31.436 --> 0:21:33.436 has like a thing over their eyes, you know, like 0:21:33.436 --> 0:21:35.196 they have all the sleep of koutrement and like trying 0:21:35.196 --> 0:21:36.836 to help them get to sleep. But I thought to myself, 0:21:36.916 --> 0:21:39.396 my god, this is like objectively one of the biggest 0:21:39.436 --> 0:21:42.036 stars in the world, And if that is how that 0:21:42.236 --> 0:21:45.796 star is getting quote unquote rest, then the rest of 0:21:45.876 --> 0:21:48.036 us are doomed. Like, don't ever think there's a level 0:21:48.076 --> 0:21:49.876 of touring that you're going to achieve as like an 0:21:49.876 --> 0:21:52.236 indie rock band where you're not going to feel kind 0:21:52.236 --> 0:21:56.956 of like deeply like cellularly exhausted. Yeah, I think it's hard. 0:21:57.036 --> 0:22:00.796 I have friends who have done pretty well in music, 0:22:00.916 --> 0:22:03.356 and at first when they would complain about touring, would 0:22:03.516 --> 0:22:04.876 you would be a little bit when you're in your 0:22:04.876 --> 0:22:08.396 twenties or third you're like, sorry about your problems, but yeah, 0:22:08.436 --> 0:22:11.196 you're up in to Australia and every cool person came 0:22:11.196 --> 0:22:14.356 out to see you and you were single. But it 0:22:14.396 --> 0:22:16.956 seems like the pain is real. It's real. I think 0:22:16.956 --> 0:22:19.516 it's like a total not to get like too dark 0:22:19.516 --> 0:22:24.076 about our wonderful great aunt Helen, who's ninety two this year. Yeah, 0:22:24.076 --> 0:22:27.556 she's amazing. But I I was teasing her because she 0:22:27.556 --> 0:22:29.596 doesn't really travel anywhere, and she said, I don't like 0:22:29.636 --> 0:22:31.636 to travel because you go somewhere, you eat what other 0:22:31.676 --> 0:22:34.716 people want, and then you sleep in someone else's bed, 0:22:34.756 --> 0:22:40.116 on someone else's sheets, and then you are you're stopped up. 0:22:40.156 --> 0:22:41.876 But she used some sort of old and timey word, 0:22:41.876 --> 0:22:44.356 but she means like constipated. And then you go home 0:22:44.356 --> 0:22:46.196 and you're just relieved to get back into your house, 0:22:46.236 --> 0:22:48.116 your sheets, eat the food, you like a poop again. 0:22:48.156 --> 0:22:50.756 And I thought to myself, well, great aunt Helen, you 0:22:50.916 --> 0:22:53.996 kind of just nailed the worst part of travel yeah, 0:22:54.036 --> 0:22:57.116 it's glamorous up to a point, but also to way 0:22:57.116 --> 0:22:58.876 your aunt was saying, it also makes you appreciate your 0:22:58.876 --> 0:23:01.476 home to a certain extent, Like I feel like, oh, yeah, absolutely, 0:23:01.516 --> 0:23:04.476 I like New York more after spending a year and 0:23:04.476 --> 0:23:07.316 a half traveling from Montreal to Mexico City doing things. 0:23:07.876 --> 0:23:10.156 I like my apartment more. I appreciate my friends more 0:23:10.156 --> 0:23:11.676 than I did when I was here and I was 0:23:11.716 --> 0:23:15.756 just chafing for something else. I think there's a calibration required. Yeah, 0:23:15.756 --> 0:23:18.436 oh my god. I mean I used to feel completely 0:23:18.476 --> 0:23:20.636 the opposite to the way that I feel now in 0:23:20.676 --> 0:23:23.516 my twenties, and those gears were so fun, you know. 0:23:23.556 --> 0:23:25.236