Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Wait inside from the reporters and
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Speaker 1: global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 1: Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, when financial advisors need help, that's why
Speaker 2: they come to Orlando and the Bnymeil Impurshing Insight Conference.
Speaker 2: We are live from the World Center Marriott in Orlando
Speaker 2: at the event, and I'm so delighted to have back
Speaker 2: with us. Is Stephanie Pierce, chief executive officer of Dreyfus,
Speaker 2: Melon and ETFs at bn Y mail in Management here
Speaker 2: on site and joining me and Matt on BusinessWeek.
Speaker 3: It is so great to see you again.
Speaker 4: Great to be back.
Speaker 2: I want to talk about because you guys have some news,
Speaker 2: but I promised I was going to start there, But
Speaker 2: actually I want to say, what do you make of
Speaker 2: the environment this year versus last year?
Speaker 5: It's a very different environment, it is, right, I mean,
Speaker 5: I think this year we're looking at a situation where
Speaker 5: clients have been burned. Right, last year, nothing worked so hard,
Speaker 5: right sixty and forty both sides of the trade didn't work,
Speaker 5: and even though markets are up this year, people are
Speaker 5: still reeling from what happened. What could I have done differently?
Speaker 5: It's actually interesting is the topic of one of the
Speaker 5: panels I'll beyond later today, which is solutions for on
Speaker 5: certain markets and people are scratching their heads trying to
Speaker 5: figure out what.
Speaker 2: To do, which is a perfect conversation. We're going to
Speaker 2: dig into that, Matt and I with you in just
Speaker 2: a moment. Tell us about some of the news though
Speaker 2: that you guys, because you do use this platform to
Speaker 2: kind of talk about what you are doing to help
Speaker 2: financial advisors.
Speaker 5: Well, we're very excited today because we have a big announcement.
Speaker 5: So Bny Melan has just announced as part of our
Speaker 5: Pershing X initiative, the Pershing X Wove platform, and as
Speaker 5: part of that, which literally just happened in the next room,
Speaker 5: as you know, as part of that behind the curtain
Speaker 5: of Wove is B and Y Melan Precision Direct Indexing
Speaker 5: S and P five hundred, which is bringing the best
Speaker 5: of B and Y Melan's institutional indexing capability to financial
Speaker 5: advisors for the first time.
Speaker 3: So unpack that. What does that mean?
Speaker 5: So direct indexing is one of the fastest growing investment
Speaker 5: advisory products in the marketplace, to a kind of north
Speaker 5: of twelve percent a year, maybe more than that. There's
Speaker 5: predictions of how big this will get over the next
Speaker 5: number of years, rivaling things like ETFs and other things.
Speaker 5: But essentially what those strategies are are a customized index
Speaker 5: solution for investors that not only gives them kind of
Speaker 5: the tax you know, the the good tax treatment and
Speaker 5: all the great things that ETFs do, but it also
Speaker 5: gives them their own cost basis and the ability to
Speaker 5: customize for both tax kind of tax management, but also
Speaker 5: other preferences that they may have.
Speaker 3: And they're so active or passive. It's passive, but it
Speaker 3: is passive.
Speaker 5: But what's interesting is so you have all the kind
Speaker 5: of tax benefits that you would have in other tax
Speaker 5: efficient vehicles and good kind of you know, cost effective
Speaker 5: investment management, but for an advisor it allows them to
Speaker 5: sit on the same side of the table as their
Speaker 5: client and customize for them a solution that has kind
Speaker 5: of tax benefits but also the customization. So if a
Speaker 5: client says, gee, I want certain types of companies excluded,
Speaker 5: you can actually do that because they are the beneficial
Speaker 5: holder of the securities.
Speaker 4: It's a separately managed account.
Speaker 3: Matt come on in in the conversation.
Speaker 6: Well, it sounds like the perfect way to do your
Speaker 6: own I hate to use the term esg right because
Speaker 6: people it's been sort of politicized. But you can put
Speaker 6: your own money where your mouth is effectively, or you
Speaker 6: can do that in collaboration with your financial advisor and
Speaker 6: make investments that you feel comfortable with, Investments that you
Speaker 6: feel comfortable.
Speaker 5: With you can I mean, I think at the end
Speaker 5: of the day, what advisors are trying to do for
Speaker 5: clients again is sit on the same side of the
Speaker 5: table with them and figure out what's important to the client.
Speaker 5: And we know taxes are important, we know costs are important,
Speaker 5: and we know that clients and the different segments that
Speaker 5: they serve have different preferences. Taxes are part of that,
Speaker 5: but not the only part. And so these strategies allow
Speaker 5: you a level of flexibility and customization.
Speaker 4: Essentially, think of it this way.
Speaker 5: You're like last year, right where the markets did not
Speaker 5: only nothing, they did nothing good, right, but at the
Speaker 5: end of the year you could get this tax benefit
Speaker 5: of tax lost harvesting along the way. Then in a
Speaker 5: year like this, year where the NADAC is up you know,
Speaker 5: double digits, right, and there may be some gains that
Speaker 5: are associated with that.
Speaker 4: With some of your actively managed.
Speaker 5: Muta funds, you can use those losses booked in your
Speaker 5: direct indexing account to offset gains and other parts of
Speaker 5: the portfolio. So where an advisor can really add value
Speaker 5: is to not only do asset allocation, but asset location
Speaker 5: with their clients.
Speaker 4: Right. So these are.
Speaker 5: Less efficient strategies over here, and these are more tax
Speaker 5: efficient strategies to put them together and you can wipe away.
Speaker 4: A lot of tax bill at the end of the year.
Speaker 5: So that's where these have become credibly valuable tools for
Speaker 5: advisors to deliver value to clients.
Speaker 6: So is this for you a better solution than having
Speaker 6: an in house fund manager or create an active ETF
Speaker 6: for you or one that could be actively traded traded.
Speaker 5: Well, two very different things, right. This is solving for
Speaker 5: something different. This is providing for clients if you will
Speaker 5: beta exposure in core parts of the portfolio at a
Speaker 5: very cost effective you know price, and then they can
Speaker 5: supplement that with active solutions. In a way they work
Speaker 5: perfectly together because some of the active solutions may deliver
Speaker 5: more capital gains over time, and then you can remove
Speaker 5: the tax build impact of those by utilizing a direct
Speaker 5: indexing strategy to harvest losses along the way while still
Speaker 5: getting an index return.
Speaker 6: Stephanie, could you could you build an ETF that has
Speaker 6: active ETFs inside it?
Speaker 5: Could you build a direct indexing portfolio with active etms?
Speaker 5: Is that what you meant, met Yep, Yes you could, Yes,
Speaker 5: So you can put any security inside these things. Of course,
Speaker 5: you know, we don't want to get too fancy and
Speaker 5: too complicated because then it becomes very difficult to explain.
Speaker 5: So we want to keep it simple for clients. But
Speaker 5: what we're really really excited about is, you know, B
Speaker 5: and Y Melon has all these things under the roof
Speaker 5: of the firm, right, so, Melon, which is going to
Speaker 5: manage these portfolios, is in its fortieth year of index management.
Speaker 5: We've been doing tax management for thirty out of those
Speaker 5: forty years, and we've been doing it for some of
Speaker 5: the world's most sophisticated investors. So now we get to
Speaker 5: bring that to financial advisors and their clients at a
Speaker 5: very cost effective means through the Wolve platform where it's.
Speaker 4: All wrapped up in one bundle. For the client.
Speaker 5: So we think that's really delivering unique value from our company.
Speaker 5: We call it one bny melon in terms of how
Speaker 5: we're delivering to clients. So, Matt, you could do all
Speaker 5: those things, but again we want to keep it simple
Speaker 5: and elegant for clients. The way I think about it
Speaker 5: is the active solutions and the passive solutions can work
Speaker 5: together in a portfolio to create both alpha at a
Speaker 5: cost cost effective manner, but also a tax efficient solution.
Speaker 2: Stephanie, what's the constructive conversation around active right now?
Speaker 7: Right?
Speaker 3: For so long?
Speaker 2: Passive just work so long that we all question whether
Speaker 2: or not active was even a strategy for the future.
Speaker 2: We know that that is, certainly we think about it
Speaker 2: differently now, So how do you guys think about it?
Speaker 3: Because I was listening to you with a Paula.
Speaker 6: That's still the case because the cues have outperformed every
Speaker 6: growth fund manager over the last five years, ten years,
Speaker 6: or fifteen years, and that's pretty passive.
Speaker 3: That's a good point.
Speaker 4: It does.
Speaker 5: So now what Carol, referring to earlier, We're still fundamentally
Speaker 5: big believers in active management, and in certain areas.
Speaker 3: Our funds are active, right, Yes, So for our ETFs.
Speaker 5: We have seventeen ETFs, the two most recent ones are active,
Speaker 5: about half were active, half are passive, and the two
Speaker 5: most recent ones are a classic example of where active
Speaker 5: works really well, which is thematic investing. About of the
Speaker 5: one hundred and twelve billion or so of thematic ETFs,
Speaker 5: about seventy seven percent of them are passive.
Speaker 4: So we think we're bringing.
Speaker 5: Something really different and unique and Carol, as we were
Speaker 5: talking earlier, one of these is BKIV, which is bny
Speaker 5: melan innovator as ETF.
Speaker 4: So think of it this way.
Speaker 5: If you look at the last fifteen years of the
Speaker 5: S and P five hundred, about about fifty two percent
Speaker 5: of the securities that we know as S and five
Speaker 5: hundred stocks have actually disappeared from you, not just from
Speaker 5: the benchmark, would have disappeared as companies. So what this
Speaker 5: product is trying to do, the Innovator's Fund, is to
Speaker 5: think forward in terms of who are those companies that
Speaker 5: are disrupting the way we live, the way we work,
Speaker 5: the way we play, the way we do things.
Speaker 2: Is this the Kathy, I'm afraid to introduce this because
Speaker 2: Matt's going to go crazy on me, But is this
Speaker 2: kind of the Kathy would effect to some extent, right,
Speaker 2: making us think about, Okay, what are the companies, the futures,
Speaker 2: the trends you know for the future, the trends, the technologies.
Speaker 5: Well, I'm not going to comment on anyone else out there,
Speaker 5: but I will say that this is an area that
Speaker 5: we've been focused on for many, many years, never in
Speaker 5: an ETF before, so we're very excited to bring it.
Speaker 4: But this is an area where we want.
Speaker 5: Investors to have the ability to think forward and have
Speaker 5: access to companies that are going to disrupt the companies
Speaker 5: that are in these spaces today. And statistically, like I said,
Speaker 5: we know that if half of those companies disappear, that
Speaker 5: are the companies we know today. You want to be
Speaker 5: thinking forward and having a part of your portfolio invested
Speaker 5: in that. So, Carol, the other one just while I'm
Speaker 5: while I have the mic here yep, well, jo.
Speaker 6: Just how do you hedge against I mean, being early
Speaker 6: is the same as being wrong, right, So how do
Speaker 6: you hedge against that you don't want your product and
Speaker 6: end up looking like Kathy Woods Mathew Woods.
Speaker 4: So, Matt, this is why we think about having a portfolio.
Speaker 8: Right.
Speaker 5: We talked about direct to next thing we talked about
Speaker 5: thematic ETFs. You don't put all your eggs in one basket,
Speaker 5: you know, it's kind of like biotech investing, right. You
Speaker 5: want to do it in a portfolio construct because you
Speaker 5: don't know how it's all going to work. So the
Speaker 5: thematic ETF is a component of an overall portfolio.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 5: The other ETF that I wanted to just quickly mention
Speaker 5: that we also launched a couple of weeks ago, which
Speaker 5: I have to say makes all fifty two thousand people
Speaker 5: at my company, particularly the women.
Speaker 4: Incredibly proud to work.
Speaker 5: Here is a B and white Melon Women's Opportunities ETF.
Speaker 5: And the thesis here, of course, as we all know,
Speaker 5: is that companies to do the right things by women
Speaker 5: in terms of recruiting, retaining, promoting, and supporting them to
Speaker 5: be able to do it all actually perform better than
Speaker 5: companies who don't do those things.
Speaker 4: So here we actually have.
Speaker 5: A component of philanthropy to the product, where we're giving
Speaker 5: ten percent of net profits to Girls Inc. To support
Speaker 5: the empowerment of girls starting at age five all the
Speaker 5: way up through high school and college, and the rates
Speaker 5: of graduation and empowerment of those girls is pretty powerful.
Speaker 5: So it's a good cause that we're contributing to, and
Speaker 5: we're really excited about it.
Speaker 3: What have been the flows into these funds?
Speaker 5: I know they're new, they're brand new, so too early
Speaker 5: to come by care Okay, okay, we've just say to them.
Speaker 5: But I will say the interest is really high. And
Speaker 5: back to Matt's point, I think you know you were
Speaker 5: talking earlier about market levels. I think we're entering at a
Speaker 5: pretty good time, right, markets have been are all over
Speaker 5: the place, So.
Speaker 3: Why do you say that? What do you think? We
Speaker 3: only got about forty five seconds left.
Speaker 5: Look, I mean I think you know people are really uncertain.
Speaker 5: I mentioned, you know, people are trying to figure out
Speaker 5: what to do. Their sixty forty portfolios didn't work last year.
Speaker 2: And give me a hard time when I said we're
Speaker 2: trying to see if we find a are finding a bottom.
Speaker 2: He's like, look, the S and P's up twenty percent
Speaker 2: from that October low, and I'm like, well do we
Speaker 2: buy it?
Speaker 5: Well, look, I mean here's what we know, right, we know,
Speaker 5: you know interest rates, you know, short term rates, thirt
Speaker 5: five percent?
Speaker 4: Cash is sexy, as.
Speaker 5: We like to say, no, you know, giving everything all
Speaker 5: run for its money, everything else and run for its money.
Speaker 5: That being said, as we know, if we think we're
Speaker 5: into heading into potential slownown or even a shallow recession as.
Speaker 4: Vince reindhard or economist things.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, we know that equities tend to lag
Speaker 5: right in terms of fixed income fixingcome tends to do
Speaker 5: better kind of inter recession. Equities tend to do better
Speaker 5: as you're coming out, as you bought them and come out.
Speaker 5: So that's where I think that from evaluation perspective, we're
Speaker 5: an interesting place to enter with these ETFs right now
Speaker 5: because valuations are pretty.
Speaker 3: But interesting, good versus interesting.
Speaker 4: I agree with that.
Speaker 3: So great to check in with you.
Speaker 4: Thank you guys.
Speaker 3: Be well.
Speaker 2: Stephanie Pierres, chief executive Officer of Dreyfus, Mellen and ETFs
Speaker 2: at B and Y Mellon Investment Management on site with
Speaker 2: us at the B and Y Melan Purging Insight Conference.
Speaker 2: Lots more to come from me in Orlando, Matt back
Speaker 2: at our New York headquarters.
Speaker 3: Stick around, folks. You are listening and watching Bloomberg Business Week,
Speaker 3: and this is Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch US
Speaker 1: live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App,
Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 2: We are live from the World Center married in Orlando.
Speaker 2: Are at the b and Y Melan Purging Insight Conference.
Speaker 2: I'm Carol Massler here in Orlando. Matt Miller back there
Speaker 2: at our Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio in New York City,
Speaker 2: and our next guest. We're going to talk about a
Speaker 2: bunch of things, Matt, because we have M and A
Speaker 2: activity because she was on a panel a breakout involving
Speaker 2: what was going on with M and A, and she
Speaker 2: also talked about talent and the war in talent. So
Speaker 2: so delighted to have with us. Lisa Crawford. She's director
Speaker 2: and head of Business Consulting at BNY Melan Persian Persian Pershing.
Speaker 3: It's big out to day, It's Melon Pershing. Welcome. How
Speaker 3: are you great? Doing great? So let's start.
Speaker 2: You did do two breakouts. What's really cool about this
Speaker 2: event is it's finance professionals who have so many questions
Speaker 2: about different things and everything impacts them. And I always
Speaker 2: say that everything in our life has a business element
Speaker 2: to it, a market element to it. Whether it's public
Speaker 2: or private, it all comes together. So let's talk specifically.
Speaker 2: I think about M and A. First of all, it's
Speaker 2: good M and A. I was looking at some Bloomberg
Speaker 2: numbers down about thirty six percent year over year in
Speaker 2: North America, and then it's down forty one percent globally.
Speaker 3: But we do see deals happening.
Speaker 2: How do you think about the M and A environment
Speaker 2: and what did you want to convey to the groups here?
Speaker 8: So in our little world of arias and advisory film,
Speaker 8: so I was certainly seeing a shift in the types
Speaker 8: of M and A deals that are happening. It's nothing
Speaker 8: particularly new, but bigger deals, a lot more strategic deals,
Speaker 8: a lot more minority investments. Gone are the days of
Speaker 8: the small elderly advisor is selling because they have nothing
Speaker 8: else to do. Now it's really I'm selling because this
Speaker 8: is the right strategic decision for my firm now before
Speaker 8: I get too far gone in my career. And I
Speaker 8: want to develop my people. I want to give my
Speaker 8: clients a great client experience. And so we're seeing some
Speaker 8: really creative deals across a couple of big firms that
Speaker 8: you would think would just continue to be independent, but
Speaker 8: they realize that there's great synergy to be together. It's
Speaker 8: making for a really fun conversation out in the marketplace.
Speaker 2: Well you're talking about in the advisory firm, right among
Speaker 2: advisory firms, is does it get more complicated? You know
Speaker 2: in terms of I don't know some of the issues
Speaker 2: that are coming down. We talk a lot about AI,
Speaker 2: the role of technology, or does it make it easier
Speaker 2: to be a part of a group.
Speaker 3: I think it makes it easier.
Speaker 8: When we look at technology and the evolution of how
Speaker 8: technology is used. It used to be we bought technology
Speaker 8: to replace a person. Now we're hiring people to help
Speaker 8: enable that technology. And the technology has broadened, it's gotten
Speaker 8: more complicated, and we need more thoughtful technologists to run
Speaker 8: those You can't do that if you have fifteen people
Speaker 8: who need to be part of that fifty hundred two
Speaker 8: hundred person organization. And so M and A is really
Speaker 8: creating opportunities for people to do that. And so when
Speaker 8: we see these merges happen between two big firms, we're
Speaker 8: now seeing all these new and really cool career paths
Speaker 8: that are coming out of that that are enabling a
Speaker 8: really cool client experience, or some other new way that
Speaker 8: advisors can touch their clients and add value to their lives.
Speaker 3: Matt, you want to come on in.
Speaker 6: So, Lisa, are you saying that this market is there's
Speaker 6: no longer a place for independent advisors and smaller firms.
Speaker 8: Well, I didn't say there's no longer a place, but
Speaker 8: good try there. So no, I think there's always going
Speaker 8: to be a place for smaller independent firms. There's always
Speaker 8: going to.
Speaker 2: Because we have a guest coming up later that's going
Speaker 2: to talk, but it's independent.
Speaker 8: We have lots of great clients who are continuing to
Speaker 8: be independent, and that's great.
Speaker 9: There's a place for all of that.
Speaker 8: There are end clients that are always going to want
Speaker 8: that I know this person because I went to school
Speaker 8: with them, or they have been on my street or
Speaker 8: you know, my families use them for years. And then
Speaker 8: there are those that want the big brand and the
Speaker 8: flashy names and that, and that's okay. There's a market
Speaker 8: for everybody, and as our industry matures, we have to
Speaker 8: be able to provide a broader spectrum of services to
Speaker 8: a broader spectrum of clients. And this is allowing that
Speaker 8: to happen.
Speaker 2: I am curious when it comes to clients specific Oh
Speaker 2: go ahead, Matt, go ahead.
Speaker 6: I was just gonna ask, you know, if you if
Speaker 6: you want to provide those services, a broader array of
Speaker 6: services and serve a broader array of clients, how is
Speaker 6: it finding the talent to do that? I mean, is
Speaker 6: it is it difficult right now? Or is that difficulty
Speaker 6: only reserved for like, you know, giant hedge fund managers.
Speaker 8: No, I say, every firm that I've worked with in
Speaker 8: the last year has said I'm hiring, And whether they're
Speaker 8: advertising for those hires or not, they're all hiring. And
Speaker 8: we're no longer hiring for senior people. They want junior
Speaker 8: power planners, they want the three to five year experienced advisors,
Speaker 8: and they want the back office and the operations people.
Speaker 8: Every firm I'm working with is hiring. And so what
Speaker 8: we saw kind of come out of the M and
Speaker 8: A space was that the talent market was so tight
Speaker 8: for so long that they started buying firms because they
Speaker 8: had talent. They started buying firms because they realized that
Speaker 8: they could lift out those people and expand.
Speaker 3: The great strategy but kind of an expensive one.
Speaker 8: No, well, I mean not really because the cost of
Speaker 8: hiring someone and training them and bringing them on at
Speaker 8: least then you're bringing on revenue too, right, right?
Speaker 3: Is that continuing?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, It's interesting because then how do you juxtapose this
Speaker 2: against you know, we talk often about the labor market
Speaker 2: still is really tight. How do you kind of think
Speaker 2: about the more broader labor story versus what your guys
Speaker 2: are seeing in your industry.
Speaker 8: Yeah, So for those of you who are here at
Speaker 8: INSIGHT today, we have sixty five students here this part
Speaker 8: of our student experience program that we've been doing since
Speaker 8: twenty sixteen. We're trying to bring more and more students
Speaker 8: to the conference so that advisors can meet them and
Speaker 8: hire them and bring them in. There are about one
Speaker 8: hundred and thirty universities around the country that offer CFP
Speaker 8: designation programs. That number continues to grow, but those students
Speaker 8: are getting snapped up the day that they graduate. Many
Speaker 8: of them have jobs six months before they graduate. We
Speaker 8: need to get more kids into those programs, so that
Speaker 8: starts in elementary and middle and high school with really
Speaker 8: basic financial literacy of advisors going to classrooms and teaching
Speaker 8: the difference between checking and savings and between credit cards
Speaker 8: and debit cards. We need more and more diverse talent
Speaker 8: in the space. And that's only going to come if
Speaker 8: we take the longs low strategy and get into the
Speaker 8: schools and get them.
Speaker 2: Well, Matt, you and I've had conversations right with guests
Speaker 2: about the importance of financial literacy and starting really really early.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I mean, if I were the boss, we would start
Speaker 6: that in elementary school. If not, you know, maybe middle school.
Speaker 6: I wonder, Lisa, when we see a bunch of pretty
Speaker 6: decently sized banks fail, or when we see you know,
Speaker 6: a UBS takeover at Credit Suite and they've got to
Speaker 6: dispose of some assets, have you been able in the
Speaker 6: last few months to find some good deals out there?
Speaker 6: Have you been able to pick you know, up talent
Speaker 6: or systems that are useful to you?
Speaker 8: So at Pershing, we've been hiring a lot of people.
Speaker 8: Our business continues to evolve, and we are hiring from
Speaker 8: all kinds of places in industry and out of industry.
Speaker 8: And the advisory firms that I work with, same thing.
Speaker 8: They're bringing people who heard somebody this morning talk about
Speaker 8: how they hired somebody out of Microsoft to help them
Speaker 8: run their IT infrastructure in an advisory firm years ago
Speaker 8: that never would have happened.
Speaker 3: And you don't see any of that slowing down.
Speaker 8: No, No, I mean the consolidation just continues to gain
Speaker 8: momentum and create more new and different ways for us
Speaker 8: to do business and so have clients and create more
Speaker 8: value for them.
Speaker 2: I am also curious that in terms of I'm listening
Speaker 2: to you, it's funny a second conversation here during our broadcast,
Speaker 2: and it sounds like a lot of optimism.
Speaker 3: I mean, based on what you're seeing.
Speaker 2: We Matt and I spend time with our TV colleagues
Speaker 2: and just with all of our guests, you know, kind
Speaker 2: of batting around, are we going to miss a recession?
Speaker 2: Are we going to see a soft recession? Based on
Speaker 2: what you're seeing and the demands of the clients that
Speaker 2: you all work with, and then just your fight for talent,
Speaker 2: what does it tell you about kind of the broader
Speaker 2: economic outlook.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I'm definitely not the economist, but these are like
Speaker 8: important factors. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I think you know, with
Speaker 8: these students that are coming out of programs, there's enough
Speaker 8: jobs for all of them. And even in a recession,
Speaker 8: that's a time where it end investors you and need
Speaker 8: our advisors more than ever. So it's up to the
Speaker 8: advisors to be creative, to think about the profitability of
Speaker 8: their firm and how they're structured. That's a lot of
Speaker 8: the work that we do on the business consulting team here.
Speaker 8: But there's always going to be jobs. There's always going
Speaker 8: to be amazing yea. So it's not you know, it's
Speaker 8: not a recession proof thing, and to shifts and changes
Speaker 8: a little bit as the markets change and there's constantly
Speaker 8: new opportunities being created.
Speaker 3: Does AI just make this even crazier?
Speaker 8: So we've got a couple of firms AI. So actually
Speaker 8: we were just talking that about this with one of
Speaker 8: our firms last week at a different conference, and her
Speaker 8: next hire is somebody to do AI for the firm,
Speaker 8: not because they know what they want to do right,
Speaker 8: but they know they need to do something right.
Speaker 3: And they don't want to be left behind, right, So
Speaker 3: just to check it out.
Speaker 2: What a pleasure, lovely to see, so good and great
Speaker 2: to attack both of those worlds they definitely like tie together.
Speaker 2: Lisa Crawford, she's director of a director and head of
Speaker 2: business Consulting at b and Why Melon Purshing joining us
Speaker 2: here on site at B and Why Melon Pursing Insight Conference,
Speaker 2: Listen and watching Bloomberg BusinessWeek. I'm Carol Masser here in Orlando.
Speaker 2: Of course, Matt Miller back there at Bloomberg Headquarters in
Speaker 2: New York City.
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Speaker 3: We are delighted to have with us Trey Prescott.
Speaker 2: He's director of business development at the Atlanta based Registered
Speaker 2: Investment Advisory Advisory Services Network, and he's joining us live
Speaker 2: from the World Center Married in Orlando at B and
Speaker 2: Y Melon Pershing Insight.
Speaker 3: Nice to meet you.
Speaker 7: Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure.
Speaker 3: It's a pleasure to have you here. And you're going
Speaker 3: to talk to you because it is interesting.
Speaker 2: We just had a conversation about, you know, investment advisors
Speaker 2: joining forces. Tell us about what you do because you
Speaker 2: really help independence, right the opposite advisors.
Speaker 7: Go I'll sit in a very fortunate seat.
Speaker 10: I get to work with advisors from wirehouse banks, broker
Speaker 10: dealers and really telling them the best ways to go independent.
Speaker 10: And if I'm lucky enough, they'll come over to our
Speaker 10: firm and Advisory Services Network. But we enable them to
Speaker 10: self brand and we take care of all the back
Speaker 10: office and they can manage and prospect their book.
Speaker 3: So they're kind of right.
Speaker 2: They stay on their own, right on their own, are
Speaker 2: dealing all of it, with all their back office yep.
Speaker 10: So they they create the brand, they manage the money.
Speaker 10: It's their book of business. But they're just aligning that
Speaker 10: independence through our firm as a member of ASN, and
Speaker 10: we do all the billing, compliance, operations, all the all
Speaker 10: the day to day minutia that they have no.
Speaker 7: Interest in doing.
Speaker 3: Why do most come to you.
Speaker 10: Most because they hate compliance, they hate operations, they hate billing,
Speaker 10: They don't want to deal with the sec They want
Speaker 10: to do what they do best, and that's building their
Speaker 10: book or prospecting those new clients. And you know, unfortunately,
Speaker 10: and fortunately we're in a we're in a great space
Speaker 10: right now for the independent rep. But most out there
Speaker 10: they don't know what's good for them and they don't
Speaker 10: know or have a proper education is what's available to them.
Speaker 10: So a lot come to me and they'll determine if
Speaker 10: a fee based oria is their best route or if
Speaker 10: one of the other firms out there, because that's one
Speaker 10: thing it's exploding.
Speaker 2: I want to bring my co host Matt Miller in
Speaker 2: in just a moment. But how big has the network gone?
Speaker 2: Because you said you've been doing this for thirteen.
Speaker 7: Years, this will be my fourteenth year this fall.
Speaker 10: I did five years on the operations team and sales
Speaker 10: on the other side. So we get to work with
Speaker 10: a number of different reps. And as of right now,
Speaker 10: Advisory Services networks almost seven billion in about forty five states,
Speaker 10: and those advisors roughly are a ten million dollar upstart.
Speaker 10: At our largest shops about four four hundred and fifty million.
Speaker 10: So it's all across the board and we service a
Speaker 10: lot of different entities.
Speaker 3: Matt, come on in.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm just wondering if your advisors are then more
Speaker 6: independent than they would be at say, I don't know,
Speaker 6: like amor Prize or PREW or any of the others
Speaker 6: like that. What makes them so independent? Do they not
Speaker 6: have any proprietary products to push.
Speaker 10: They are on our eighty but they are self branding
Speaker 10: as a member of our firm. Adv is a brochure supplement,
Speaker 10: basically saying.
Speaker 7: If they're on our RIA or if they're their own RIA.
Speaker 10: But generally, I mean those reps coming over to us,
Speaker 10: they are looking for an independent space where they can
Speaker 10: manage the money, they can pick and choose the products.
Speaker 10: We don't push that type of stuff. We're an independent
Speaker 10: IE platform, meaning we're doing all the day.
Speaker 7: To day minutia of the RIA.
Speaker 10: So we're not pushing product, we're not pushing brand, and
Speaker 10: we're not pushing a five year, ten year lockup or
Speaker 10: upfront money. It's a straight independent service platform for those
Speaker 10: type of reps who want to create their own brand,
Speaker 10: sell for the highest multiple down the road, but also
Speaker 10: maintain that independence and open architecture for as long as possible.
Speaker 3: All right, So Matt, you wanted to follow us?
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, I mean, how many people are leaving bigger
Speaker 6: firms to come to you and where are they coming from?
Speaker 6: Is there something specifically that they all share that they
Speaker 6: all don't like about having to work for you know,
Speaker 6: another boss, another boss.
Speaker 7: That's a very long conversation right there.
Speaker 10: What I will say is that last year I spoke
Speaker 10: to one hundred and eighty four groups in total meeting.
Speaker 10: If you've got ten million in AUM or over, they
Speaker 10: were generally qualifying US as an independent RIA platform this
Speaker 10: year alone. This morning actually I spoke to my one
Speaker 10: hundred and fifty fifth group already. If that tells you
Speaker 10: anything about the space, A lot of those reps are
Speaker 10: coming from captive broker dealer environments, banks, the wirehouse channels. Essentially,
Speaker 10: most of those groups are on twenty to sixty percent
Speaker 10: payouts and they can never leave those companies anyway. So
Speaker 10: they come to us peel as much out as possible,
Speaker 10: and they really control their own destiny from there. Because
Speaker 10: we don't require them to sell internally or externally. They
Speaker 10: can work with us forever long they want to and
Speaker 10: sell at their beck and call.
Speaker 2: So I am curious about the financial advisors, and you've
Speaker 2: been doing this for so long. What are you seeing
Speaker 2: about the individuals? What are some of the demographics. Are
Speaker 2: they getting younger, are they getting older? Are they getting what?
Speaker 10: It's amazing how many entrepreneurs there are in the industry.
Speaker 10: Most people that you think about in our industry are
Speaker 10: at a wirehouse and a you know, with a bear
Speaker 10: and the bull in the front of it. A lot
Speaker 10: of people out there, they want to create their own
Speaker 10: practice and they want to create their own brand, and
Speaker 10: that's what we answer for. Demographics wise. Look, I'm a
Speaker 10: family owned firm, family owned company. My dad started us
Speaker 10: fourteen years ago as an offshoot from our consulting practice mainstay.
Speaker 7: It's getting generational.
Speaker 10: A lot of advisors are bringing in their sons or
Speaker 10: daughters to help answer for that next generation of clients.
Speaker 10: But that also makes it sticky. A lot of reps
Speaker 10: are liking that. I right now, you may argue with
Speaker 10: me on this. I see the industry getting a lot
Speaker 10: younger and a lot more hip as to the technology
Speaker 10: and tools that are available to them now and going independent.
Speaker 10: Ten years ago, someone thirty thirty five years old probably.
Speaker 7: Never thought about going independent. So we're trying to answer
Speaker 7: for that diversity as well. Diversity as well.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we had well we were talking with Lisa Crawford
Speaker 6: just a moment ago from Pershing and she said, you know,
Speaker 6: if you want to have a really broad, deep and
Speaker 6: complex technology offering, then you've got to have, you know,
Speaker 6: more than fifteen people in your firm.
Speaker 7: Do you disagree, No, I don't disagree.
Speaker 10: I mean, look, we're a different type of firm right here,
Speaker 10: and that we are a full scale RIA. But if
Speaker 10: you do want to be a single man or woman
Speaker 10: practice with one hundred million under management, you can do it.
Speaker 7: It's hard. Yeah, it may not be.
Speaker 10: The best use of your day dollar and overhead, but
Speaker 10: you can certainly do it right now. And as long
Speaker 10: as there's aria is like us coming out there, more
Speaker 10: and more advice is going to go independent.
Speaker 8: You know.
Speaker 2: One of the other things that Lisa Crawford talked with
Speaker 2: Matt and me about too, is you know, the hunt
Speaker 2: for talent, the talent wars. What about the talent war
Speaker 2: for you all in terms of the back office operations
Speaker 2: right that you've got to support for all these registered
Speaker 2: investment advisors who want to go independent, but they need
Speaker 2: someone to take care of kind.
Speaker 3: Of that stuff.
Speaker 7: Well, we're hiring right now.
Speaker 10: We're looking for two to three reoperations, two to three
Speaker 10: compliance people.
Speaker 7: It is. It's a war out there right now. Generally
Speaker 7: we're having to pay up. We're having to pay up
Speaker 7: right now.
Speaker 10: But we're also we're seeing how many fifteen twenty thirty
Speaker 10: year veterans are being let go of their current firms
Speaker 10: for the younger generation. But that's opening up seats for
Speaker 10: us to bring on those type of veterans of services
Speaker 10: independent reps that.
Speaker 7: We have, which you know we typically are.
Speaker 10: This will be the first year that we're doing an
Speaker 10: actual internship, but with that, we are looking for those
Speaker 10: veterans in our industry to help service our independent reps
Speaker 10: because that's what they expect right now.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Interesting, Trey, thanks so much for stopping by.
Speaker 7: Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate you.
Speaker 3: Guys, appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Trey Prescott, Director of Business Development and Advisory Services Network.
Speaker 2: Here onsite at BNY Mailing Purshing Insight Conference in Orlando.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Wait inside from the reporters and
Speaker 1: editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus
Speaker 1: global business finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week
Speaker 1: Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebek from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2: Matt, we recently talked without Bloomberg for sixteen and it
Speaker 2: was about collectible collectibles market and how it was cooling
Speaker 2: kind of coming off the pandemic and if you think
Speaker 2: about alt investments. It is things like cars and you know, art,
Speaker 2: but it's also real estate. It's also private equity, it's
Speaker 2: hedge funds, it's a lot of different things, even cryptocurrencies.
Speaker 2: So we're going to talk a little bit about that
Speaker 2: right now and really that importance of women being in
Speaker 2: that space. So we welcome Lisa Luinci's vice president, director
Speaker 2: for the Prime Services division at B and Y Melon
Speaker 2: Pershing here in Orlando.
Speaker 9: Welcome, Welcome, Thank you, Carol, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3: It was a long introduction, so forgive me no problem.
Speaker 2: But it is interesting because it's you know, there's your
Speaker 2: kind of Plaine Vanilla right market investing that we talk
Speaker 2: a lot about here at Bloomberg.
Speaker 3: Matt and I certainly do.
Speaker 2: But when you think about the alt space, and it
Speaker 2: is things like art and so on, but it's also
Speaker 2: real estate, it's private equity, it's a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2: First of all, can I start broadly, sure what you're
Speaker 2: thinking about that space right now?
Speaker 9: So that's actually a great question.
Speaker 11: We had a panel this morning about why alternatives now,
Speaker 11: like why is important for you to have some spectrum
Speaker 11: of an alternative investment in your asset allocation? And really
Speaker 11: the key themes that came out of that panel, which
Speaker 11: are the same things that I agree with, are given
Speaker 11: all the market volatility that we've seen in the last.
Speaker 9: What has it been, year, eighteen months?
Speaker 8: Two years?
Speaker 11: You know better than I have, it's so important that
Speaker 11: you have some type of strategy in your portfolio that's
Speaker 11: uncorrelated to the market, that helps you provide downside protection.
Speaker 11: And I really think alternatives can do that and do
Speaker 11: do that for investors, whether it is private credit, or
Speaker 11: art or real estate or hedge funds, which is what
Speaker 11: I'm focused on.
Speaker 2: Okay, So before I bring that in, so which is
Speaker 2: the alt investment space? Because we spend some time at
Speaker 2: MILK and also again another year where it was all
Speaker 2: about the private markets and private credit in particular, in
Speaker 2: terms of when you look at this environment and if
Speaker 2: you're trying to hedge some of the volatility, where is
Speaker 2: it that you think investors or where was the conclusion
Speaker 2: in that panel that people should be in the alt space?
Speaker 3: Where's the interest? Where's the opportunity?
Speaker 11: Excellent question. You know, there was not a consensus in
Speaker 11: terms of where the opportunity was. I mean, they echoed
Speaker 11: the same things that.
Speaker 3: You just had everybody said crypto.
Speaker 11: No one said crypto, actually, but everyone you know, there
Speaker 11: was definitely a lot of interests, which is what we've
Speaker 11: seen in terms of private credit, private debt.
Speaker 9: People believe there'll be opportunities there as well.
Speaker 11: But then there's also opportunities in the more liquid alternative strategies,
Speaker 11: so hedge funds maybe that are market neutral and allow
Speaker 11: investors to kind of hedge out some of that market risk.
Speaker 11: There's certainly you know, interests in that as well. So
Speaker 11: I think it kind of is wide, you know, in
Speaker 11: terms of where the interest is. I think, you know,
Speaker 11: some of the things we touched on on the panel
Speaker 11: this morning is it also depends on the individual investor
Speaker 11: and what their liquidity tolerances and what their risk tolerance is,
Speaker 11: and that, you know, some of that is what's really
Speaker 11: driving the decision as opposed to the specific strategy.
Speaker 3: All right, come on in, Matt.
Speaker 6: So in terms of hedge fund performance, do you find
Speaker 6: it to be consistent? Because I feel like there are
Speaker 6: years when they're up big and there are years when
Speaker 6: they're down big. But you know, the OG hedge fund
Speaker 6: at least the idea the word should mean that if
Speaker 6: the market is down a lot, you don't lose as much.
Speaker 6: And if it's up a lot, maybe you don't gain
Speaker 6: as much, but that's what you pay for. Gain as much,
Speaker 6: but that's what you pay for.
Speaker 9: So, Matt, excellent question.
Speaker 11: You know what I always tell people when we're doing
Speaker 11: sessions like get Insight or other conferences, when we're talking
Speaker 11: to investors about the importance of alternative strategies, it's really
Speaker 11: in these kind of markets where a hedge fund manager
Speaker 11: should really be proving their worth, right, That's where they
Speaker 11: demonstrate why you want to have them, you know, their strategy,
Speaker 11: their investment style in your portfolio, because that's really where
Speaker 11: they're going to differentiate themselves. When you do have these
Speaker 11: market you know, falltle markets, and I think that the
Speaker 11: good managers really perform and that helps kind of weed
Speaker 11: those managers out from the not so good managers.
Speaker 7: Right.
Speaker 11: So it's these types of environments where a hedge fund
Speaker 11: managers can really prove the are worth so to speak,
Speaker 11: and really demonstrate why they add value.
Speaker 6: So what do you think the strategies are, Well, what
Speaker 6: are the most popular strategies right now?
Speaker 7: Strategies right now?
Speaker 9: Oh, excellent question.
Speaker 11: That would actually be a good question for our kind
Speaker 11: of capital introductions teams who are more focused on that space,
Speaker 11: I think that they're again they're seeing kind of a
Speaker 11: wide interest from the investors that we that we work
Speaker 11: with our investor relationships. Again, depending on liquidity preferences, you know,
Speaker 11: the type of structure people are looking for. You know,
Speaker 11: it's really across the gamut. It goes back to some
Speaker 11: of those things Carol and I talked about before, whether
Speaker 11: it's private equity, private credit.
Speaker 9: We see a lot of opportunities.
Speaker 6: Is private credit is still a great idea, you know,
Speaker 6: as we see if as we see credit really start
Speaker 6: to tighten up right now, as we expect more and
Speaker 6: more firms to go bust, is it really the best
Speaker 6: idea to go into that privately rather than play the
Speaker 6: public markets the public markets.
Speaker 2: It's a really good question because I will say that
Speaker 2: for two years at Milkin, it's been the golden era
Speaker 2: of credit, private credit. And when I start to hear that,
Speaker 2: it makes me a little nervous having seen just like that,
Speaker 2: and you you know, we've seen lots of market cycles
Speaker 2: and everybody's like, yeah, all in, you get a little nervous,
Speaker 2: Especially when we were in a market where there's credit.
Speaker 11: Concerns, absolutely, and I think that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 8: You know.
Speaker 11: I have to be honest, I'm not the expert when
Speaker 11: it comes to private credit. Most of what we deal
Speaker 11: with within prime services is in the liquid markets, so
Speaker 11: I'm much more familiar with those strategies, you know. I
Speaker 11: think the people in our panel this morning, I'm sure
Speaker 11: we can give you some points from some of that discussion. Really,
Speaker 11: they had some good reasons why they thought private credit
Speaker 11: could still be positive in the next few years, having
Speaker 11: to do with the different credit cycle, you know.
Speaker 9: They said that, and to.
Speaker 2: Be fair, everybody I talked to you at Milkin, you know,
Speaker 2: was still all in on private credit, so they could
Speaker 2: definitely bullish. So you're you're on point, okay, good and
Speaker 2: and folks can actually taking it well then, Carol, because
Speaker 2: you're driving.
Speaker 9: Private credit is not my area of expert.
Speaker 2: It's another space. But it's been like so on everybody's radar.
Speaker 2: And we just had a great feature out from our
Speaker 2: Bolomberg News team and everybody can also check out the
Speaker 2: different discussions on the Pershing website. I do want to
Speaker 2: ask you, though, because the panel was about women leading
Speaker 2: the way in the alt space, and Matt and I
Speaker 2: have lots of conversations of all types, whether it's with
Speaker 2: heads of companies, heads of organizations, certainly those in the
Speaker 2: investment space, about the importance of diversity when it comes
Speaker 2: to management of assets. So what you're thinking about that
Speaker 2: right now, because I feel like not a new argument.
Speaker 2: We know this and yet we're still having it.
Speaker 9: Well as women, of course we know this, right, It's
Speaker 9: still there. No, it's still there.
Speaker 11: Look, this is something that personally that I'm very passionate
Speaker 11: about this topic. Pershing Prime Services, Pershing BNY, Melon as
Speaker 11: a whole, we're all very passionate about this topic because
Speaker 11: exactly as you said, we believe that having diversity is
Speaker 11: so beneficial for many reasons. I mean, one of the
Speaker 11: things we talked about on the panel was that by
Speaker 11: having like a women len manager or women in senior
Speaker 11: investment roles, you actually tend to have more diverse teams.
Speaker 9: So I think there's lots.
Speaker 11: Of different benefits to have in diversity that people don't
Speaker 11: even think about. Whether it's the diversity of thought, the
Speaker 11: diversity of opinion, the diversity of talent that you recruit
Speaker 11: if you're a woman. So I think there's a lot
Speaker 11: of benefits to investors, and the more kind of different
Speaker 11: opinions in different representation we get, the better we are
Speaker 11: as an industry.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, I think we've established for a
Speaker 6: long time that diversity is important. So we agree, we agree, No,
Speaker 6: but it.
Speaker 2: Is, you know, I will say, I mean right, I
Speaker 2: mean one of the things I love working with someone
Speaker 2: like Matt is we have different thoughts on things, but
Speaker 2: I also agree. Lisa like, it's amazing in the investment space.
Speaker 2: I feel like I've been in doing covering markets and
Speaker 2: things for a long time that this is a conversation
Speaker 2: that we're still having.
Speaker 3: And I am curious.
Speaker 2: What's the narrative that you're having with investment advisors and
Speaker 2: clients of BE and why mil En purging you know
Speaker 2: about this?
Speaker 3: Is it moving a loss?
Speaker 11: So it is moving along, Carol, excellent question, and to
Speaker 11: give you some hope, some optimism, it's definitely moving along. Actually,
Speaker 11: in anticipation of this conference, we did a survey of
Speaker 11: a lot of our investor relationships just to get their
Speaker 11: thoughts on the topic and what they think about specifically
Speaker 11: women led managers, women led funds, senior women investment professionals,
Speaker 11: and the data that we got from the survey was
Speaker 11: really terrific. I mean, I have some of the notes
Speaker 11: in front of me, but they said seventy three percent
Speaker 11: of survey responding said that they have representation of women
Speaker 11: led strategies in their portfolio, and twenty two percent of
Speaker 11: survey responding said that they have actually increased the percentage
Speaker 11: of women led strategies that they have in their asset
Speaker 11: allocation over the last several years. You know, one of
Speaker 11: the things we continue to hear time and time again
Speaker 11: from investors is that there isn't demand to have more diversity.
Speaker 9: They want to say, there is demand, there is demand.
Speaker 3: Is a pool not there for them to drop on
Speaker 3: or what?
Speaker 11: Well, that's the biggest challenge is there's not a huge,
Speaker 11: huge universe.
Speaker 9: Of female at talent. But that's improving too.
Speaker 11: I mean, we started this conversation actually at our Insight
Speaker 11: conference last year. Yeah, and in that time when we
Speaker 11: do the panel again a year from now, we've seen
Speaker 11: two very large hedge fund launches by female managers over
Speaker 11: a billion dollars. We've seen women be put into key
Speaker 11: roles at some of the largest alternative asset management firms
Speaker 11: out there.
Speaker 9: You know, Man has a woman's CEO.
Speaker 11: Bridgewater announced that they're going to have a female co CIO.
Speaker 11: So I think that we even though the pool might
Speaker 11: be small, it's growing and it continues to increase and
Speaker 11: be important to people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I just think about the conversation Matt and
Speaker 2: I have with Lisa Crawford over at B and Y
Speaker 2: Male and Pershing about the importance of advisors going into
Speaker 2: schools and start, you know, talking to kids at a
Speaker 2: young age. Yes, for financial literacy, which is something we've
Speaker 2: all been kind of pounding the table about that to
Speaker 2: be part of education, but also you know, it says
Speaker 2: to kids, here's what you can do.
Speaker 11: Absolutely, and we talked about this on the panel last year.
Speaker 9: We're going to talk about it tomorrow. But I think
Speaker 9: that's so important and even for young.
Speaker 11: Peoples that are thinking about their careers, like the financial
Speaker 11: services industry offers such a variety of different career paths
Speaker 11: and so no matter what you're interested in, you can probably.
Speaker 9: Find some failing Just explain it all.
Speaker 3: Right, Fingers Crost.
Speaker 2: We're making We're making progress. Lisa, Thank you so much,
Speaker 2: tail much to check in with you. We can Ruin,
Speaker 2: Vice President, director for Prime Services Division at BNYMIL encoursing
Speaker 2: on site at b ANDYMIL Encoursing USITE conference.
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