WEBVTT - Anne Wojcicki 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:07.680 A few years ago and Whisky start a company called 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:11.000 twenty three and Me. That company provides anyone who uses 0:00:11.000 --> 0:00:14.319 the firm services with information about their own genetic code. 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:17.599 With that information, people going to determine their own ancestry 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:19.800 and they can also determine where they have potential genetic 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:22.560 health problems in the future. I sat down with Anne 0:00:22.560 --> 0:00:24.840 and her home in Palo Alto to discuss the future 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:26.680 of twenty three and me and how it can help 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:30.600 solve genetic health care problems. So for those people that 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:33.360 have not done twenty three and me yet as a 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:36.800 test kit, tell us what twenty three and me actually is. 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:39.800 So twenty three and Me is a company that allows 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:43.120 you to see your own DNA, but it also helps 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:46.680 you understand what are your genetic health risks? What is 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:49.920 it that your potentially predisposed to something like type two diabetes, 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:54.760 h fibrillation. But it also helps you understand your ancestry. 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:57.280 So where are you from the world, how are you 0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:00.680 connected to other people? And we make it so shoal like. 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:02.480 One of the big differences with twenty three and Me 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:05.160 is like we have a it's a social platform, so 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:07.000 you could share like you and I could share our 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:10.640 data together, we could potentially be relatives. You can find 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:13.720 new relatives on twenty three ME and you can also 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:16.880 share some of your health information. So when people take 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:19.640 this test, and I should say I took it recently, 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:21.920 I haven't gotten the results back. I'm nervous about whether 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:25.080 I'm going to get good or bad results. But all 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:28.200 you do is you spit into a little tube, you 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:31.720 mail it back to you, and then how do you 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:34.560 get out of somebody's saliva all this information? Isn't it? 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:37.160 It's it's amazing that it's just it's a little tube 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:39.520 of spit. So you spit in the tube. It actually 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:42.640 takes about ten minutes to spit um. You have cells 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:46.480 from your cheek and you know, cells cells that come 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:49.280 into that spit into the saliva, and you send it 0:01:49.320 --> 0:01:51.600 back to us. We um you know, take part of 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:55.080 that sample. We extract the DNA and we run it 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:58.800 on Jean chip. You know, it's a technology that Alumina 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:01.760 has made and that's part of it's you know, thanks 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:04.120 to this company. It's a very affordable test. You know, 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:06.920 it's under two dollars if you want to get the 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:09.760 health and the ancestry, and it takes a couple of 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:11.760 weeks for us to turn it around, and then you 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:14.240 have your genome. And what twenty three really has done 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:17.840 is built all of the tools, all the interactive software tools, 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:22.040 so that you can navigate and explore what does the 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:25.120 genome mean for you? So when you give the results 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:28.880 back to people, what are they typically most surprised to learn? 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.960 We're first and foremost really concerned about health returning health results, 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:35.560 and so we spend a lot of time thinking about, Okay, 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:37.480 if I'm going to tell you your genetically high risk 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:40.919 for Alzheimer's, how are you going to respond to that? Um, 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:43.440 We have all kinds of additional layers of consent, We 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:46.600 have you know, physician videos around it. But I would 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:50.040 say what the biggest surprises for people is that they 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:54.079 find out that they have additional family members that they 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:57.000 did not know about, or the family members that they 0:02:57.040 --> 0:02:59.720 have they did not necessarily you know, they find out 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:03.560 that they're not necessarily related UM or genetically related. So 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:07.000 I would say the family connections are frankly actually become 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:09.960 the biggest surprise for me. UM. I would say, when 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:12.280 the other biggest questions is like, what is that definition 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:15.280 of race? So a lot of people find out that 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:19.000 they have African ancestry or they have Jewish ancestry, but 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:22.359 they never knew that they had either those. So then 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:24.799 what really is that definition of being Jewish or what's 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:28.720 that definition of being African American? With the co discovery 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:31.679 of DNA with James Watson and uh, he once told 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:34.600 me that he had his human genome mapped early, one 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:36.480 of the early people, but he said he didn't want 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:40.000 to know if he had a predisposition to Alzheimer's, And 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:42.080 I wonder or a lot of people have that view, 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:44.840 which is, I'd like to know what my genes would be, 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:47.240 but don't tell me if I have a predisposition Alzheimer's, 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:48.880 because not much I can do about it. Is that right? 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:51.400 I think it's it's actually I would say you have 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:54.120 sort of two camps, and both camps feel very strongly. 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:56.600 You have a group of people who very much want 0:03:56.680 --> 0:04:00.120 to know everything about themselves, and they don't necessarily a 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:03.880 report like Alzheimer's doesn't necessarily have clinical utility in the 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:05.800 capacity that you're going to have a treatment or you're 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:09.320 going to change anything, but it has high personal utility, 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:12.680 meaning that those people might decide they create a will 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:17.039 they retire earlier or one of the main things that 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:18.479 we see people do is they go and they buy 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:20.960 long term care insurance. So what we see is that 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:24.120 they take a personal utility and they're actually proactive with 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:27.720 that information. Now, in the consumer world, what people like 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:31.200 is repeat customers. And so if I did as I 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:33.440 just did, I took a twenty three and me test. 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:36.760 Once I get the results, how do you monetize me 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:38.719 in the future? What are there are different things you 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:40.839 can sell to me? Or because that's what usually companies 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:42.560 like to do is go back to their customers and 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:45.080 sell them something else. So what do you have interesting? 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:47.000 You know, I could look back like if we if 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:49.080 I ever do a retrospective on twenty three and me, 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:52.400 was it a mistake to not have a subscription product earlier? 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:55.680 So we do today have a subscription product. In early 0:04:55.800 --> 0:05:00.400 early stages of the subscription product, the original I ideas 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:02.240 with twenty three me was that we'd get you in 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:04.960 in the simplest way possible because we didn't want to 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:08.120 overly confuse the messaging about a subscription or not. But 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:10.560 it was just it was so unknown, like why do 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:13.960 you even want your genetic information. So the idea was 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:16.720 like I needed to see the market just with like 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:19.760 my early adopters is like, just like what is this information? 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:22.520 And make it as simple as possible. But what I've 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:25.520 seen over the last sixteen years is that my customers 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:29.719 are really engaged. So for example, over eighty five of 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:33.279 our customers are consenting for research, like really high numbers 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:37.080 of people opt into research. Over fift of my customers 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:39.880 are coming back on a quarterly basis. So if I 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:43.080 subscribe to one of your subscription services and I have 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:46.560 a predisposition to disease A or be, you're likely to 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:48.520 send me information on that from time and time. Is 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:50.720 that what you mean? We'll potentially update that report or 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:53.279 well potentially said you additional But the main thing we 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:56.560 did we recently acquired a company called Lemonade Health. And 0:05:56.600 --> 0:05:59.479 the reason why we acquired Lemonade Health was two folds, 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:02.560 like mostly to fit answer the question that you just asked. 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:04.599 Here is like you find out your higher risk, Well, 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:07.560 now what can you do? So first and foremost will 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:10.359 be able to have medical protocols about how can we 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:14.560 actually deliver genomic based care. No one has adopted genomic medicine, 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:17.480 So how can I adopt genomic based care in a 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:20.360 primary care setting to really help think about how do 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:23.120 I engage, Like how do I help you be healthy? So, 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:25.359 first and foremost we're going to like solve that question 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:28.479 for you. Second is really about the engagement side. You 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:31.400 find out your higher risk for heart disease, well, like 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:34.120 an article just came out about caffeine consumption in heart 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:37.120 disease or sleep in heart disease, I want you to 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:40.080 update me. So the company then will start to update 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:43.000 people to say, hey, here's the latest about what's happening. 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.640 Here's things that are in your hands that you should 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:48.159 actually start to go and think about. Now, you have 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:50.800 a fairly distinguished family. I'd like to talk about it 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:54.160 for a moment. It's been written about. I recall your 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:56.520 father was a physics professor in the head of the 0:06:56.520 --> 0:07:00.480 physics department at Stanford. Your mother is a distinguished educator 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:03.720 and wrote a book about how to raise distinguished, accomplished children. 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:08.280 She sure did. One of your sisters is an epidemiologist 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:12.880 at the University of California, professor. Another sister runs YouTube. 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:15.560 And then you are the founder of twenty three and 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:18.640 so what was it like growing up on the Stanford 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:21.560 campus with all this talented around you. I think the 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:24.200 best thing about how we grew up is we were 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:31.080 surrounded by an academic culture of people who really prioritized 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:36.120 education and learning, but also really encourage people to pursue 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:40.120 their passions. So what I what I love about all 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:42.520 my sisters, Like we both you know, Susan and I 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:46.640 happened to be in higher profile roles, but everyone is 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:49.760 pursuing something that they really love and they really enjoy doing. 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:52.680 So I think that the best thing we all got 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:56.640 from our parents was to pursue your passions, no matter 0:07:56.680 --> 0:08:01.000 how esoteric, or whether or not they're monetize able or 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:03.360 if it's you know, an academic kind of pursuit. Right. 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:05.760 So I grew up in the Stanford campus. I assume 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:08.080 you're an all A student. Your sisters are all a's. 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:10.240 So where did you want to go to school? In college? 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:12.200 You know, I kind of debate. I mean, my my 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:14.680 father went to Harvard. Like the realities, you know, things 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:17.520 based on your parents, and my father was really lucky. 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:19.960 He went to Harvard after he came from he came 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:21.800 from Poland. He was in school and he went early 0:08:21.840 --> 0:08:25.560 to Harvard. Um My mom went to Berkeley, so I knew. 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:28.320 My parents always encouraged me. They would say, you know, go, 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:31.440 like it's important to go, it's important to have education, 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:33.640 it's important to go to a good school. But there's 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:35.960 a lot of good schools, and I would say today 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:39.199 people over emphasized, like you know what, exactly what school 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:41.120 I have to go to. There's so many great schools, 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:43.800 and frankly, the great school finds you. Um So, I 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:46.439 always wanted to go. I thought Harvard would be fascinating. 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:49.439 My oldest sister she went to Harvard. Um I used 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:51.640 to stay with her at Harvard. I just like I 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:54.920 was fascinated by people who wore tweed and had leather patches. 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:58.520 Um So I decided not to end up going to Harvard. 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:01.800 I went to Yale for on weekend, and I fell 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:04.960 in love with Yale and I'm a yalely I just 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:06.920 loved it. Okay, And what did you study there? I 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:09.680 studied biology. And did you want to go to medical school? 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:12.240 I did. I thought about going to medical school. I 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:15.920 loved research, but I wasn't Um I can't say that 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:19.520 I was an incredibly talented researcher. I would say that 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:22.520 detail in that precision. There was a lot of wonderful 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:25.240 post docs in the lab who helped me get through 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:29.880 my research. But I love the science. I love molecular biology, 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:32.600 like it keeps me up at night that you have 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:36.160 this incredible set of processes going on right now in 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:39.240 your body. She went to Yale, you graduated. He decided 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:40.800 not going to go to medical school. But what did 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:42.880 you do? Well? I and I actually always you know, 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:44.600 and I joke a lot. I'm on the Kaiser Permanent, 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:47.480 a school medicine board, and I sometimes joke. I was like, 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:49.599 at some point, I'll still go to medical school, like I, 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:53.160 I mean, it's like the most it's the most interesting 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:55.760 job you can have, I think, But um, but I 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.240 decided not to, and very randomly I got a job. 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:03.079 I randomly got my resume sent to the Wallenberg family 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:06.280 in Sweden and they offered me a job. I didn't 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:08.440 know who they were, I didn't know what it was, 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:11.760 um and but I thought it was interesting, like it 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:14.720 was like a one year opportunity paid me forty dollars. 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:16.640 I thought I would never make that much money again, 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:18.599 so I figured I would go and do it for 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:20.320 a year. So where did you do this? So? I 0:10:20.360 --> 0:10:23.320 worked in New York for almost ten years. Um. So 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:25.319 I started off with the Wallenberg's and then I went 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:28.720 to a series of hedge funds afterwards. Right so, um, 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:31.480 nothing could be higher in life than working for hedge funds. Right? No, 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:34.600 exactly how did you feel there was a higher calling 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:36.160 than working for a hedge fund at the point I 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:39.440 was my my my best friend's father used to call 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:43.400 me a leech on society. Um so, and I took 0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:45.840 up fondly. I was like, look, the reality for me 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:50.120 is I was learning, Um, there was no better education 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:52.720 about it was like getting a PC. Like I went 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.520 to medical meetings every week. I went, I was speaking 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:57.960 with experts every day, Like I knew the health care 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:01.280 system so well. But I did feel after ten years, 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:05.840 I was investing in a system that was fundamentally not 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.719 really like not really the system that I wanted to 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:12.080 be part of. And um, and then I wanted to 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:13.720 do something. I feel like, you can't. If you're going 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:17.000 to complain about a problem, then you should, you know, 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:18.960 figure out how to fix it. So what year did 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:21.520 you decide to start? Twenty three? And me, it started 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:24.079 thinking about a lot in two thousand five, and then 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:28.360 it was two thousand two six that we actually started. 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:31.040 So for people who haven't paid attention to the genome world, 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:33.800 in the year two thousand, I think it was the 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:38.000 federal government said that two researchers, Francis Collins working at 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:40.520 n I H and Craig Ventor, who has had a 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:45.160 private company, had basically discovered the human genome. So that happened, 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:47.680 and I think two thousand President Clinton said that was 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:50.920 a tie, and they both given credit for it, leaving 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:53.880 aside the intramural fighting that had gone on before. So 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:55.880 it was then thought, Okay, the world is gonna be 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:58.199 so much better now that we know that human genome. 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:00.439 It's been mapped. There will be no more to Jesus, 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:02.760 we can fix all diseases. But what happened for the 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:05.400 ten years or so or fifteen years afterwards, it didn't 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:07.880 seem like much happened. But this is that's such an 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:11.560 interesting question, um, and this is also something that plagues me. 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:14.880 Like Francis Collins and President Clinton at the time came 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:18.240 out and said this human genome, like sequencing, the human 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:22.000 genome is going to transform how we diagnose treat and 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:26.200 prevent all human disease. So it's a huge statement about 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:28.559 what's going to happen. And I would argue one of 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:31.520 the biggest issues that's happened today is there has not 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:35.679 been adoption of genetic technology. And I would say point 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:39.199 back to again part of my dissatisfaction with the investing 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:42.079 world is part of the reason why it has not 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:44.719 been adopted is that a lot of genetic information is 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:49.480 about prevention. So for instance, if I tell you are 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:53.080 likely to have an adverse event from this this antidepressant, 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:57.000 or your potentially higher risk for atrial fib those are 0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:02.000 not well monetized medical events. You can make a lot 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:05.680 of money treating atro fibrillation, but you cannot make money 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:08.520 in the absence of a disease. So, for instance, if 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:11.760 I successfully keep you healthy to a hundred, you are 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:15.320 not a profit center for the healthcare world. And so 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:19.800 genetic information a lot of that potential is not really 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:23.760 adopted in the primary care setting, in part because there's 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:26.520 not an assilium monetization path. So you're starting to see 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:29.120 that more in cancer, you start to see it more 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:33.839 in pregnancy related but it has not been widely adopted 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:36.880 I would say the second thing is that the US 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:41.360 is far far behind countries like the UK. So the 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:44.760 UK has an incredibly impressive program called the uk Biobank 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:47.479 where they have half a million people who have consented, 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:52.120 who are participating in a nationwide program and it's amazing, 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.120 like everyone including twenty three me uses the data that 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:58.640 comes out from the UK Biobank. The US has totally 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:01.960 fallen behind. So we have a program called all of 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:04.240 Us where we're trying to get people. It's supposed to 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:06.760 be a million people, but the UK has already left 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:09.400 prog us and said we have a five million person program. 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:12.400 Now that's going to be, you know, running ahead. So 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:14.400 the US and part there's also been a lot of 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:17.280 politics around you know, how is this going to execute? 0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:19.600 You know, what are the ethics on it? If we 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:22.360 want to really capture the benefit of the human genome, 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:26.240 you need a massive I would say multiple countries that 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:28.880 come together and have like a hundred million people who 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:31.320 come together so you can really understand what the code is. 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:34.160 The US is obsessed not so much with the UK, 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:37.400 but it's with China. So it is China ahead of 0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:39.640 us in this area or not? Well, China is crushing 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:41.840 us too, but we don't know as much about what 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:44.920 they're actually doing. So I would say, like the one 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:48.360 big worry that I always have is like China. China 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:51.240 knows how to execute and they know how to lead 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:54.440 on a program in China has made no um, no 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:59.160 uncertain statements about their interest in genetics and that they 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:01.240 want to be the world leader in this next the 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:05.360 genetic revolution. So China has made huge efforts. They have 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:08.080 huge programs, and they also have something called the Beijing 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:12.720 Genome Institute, which is an incredibly well funded you know, um, 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:15.280 you know, well funded with the government and a massive 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:19.280 sequencing shop where tons and tons of discoveries are being 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:21.280 made and there's nothing in the U s or nothing 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:23.400 in the UK that's even comparable. As you look at 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:25.040 the company you've created, and you look at what you've 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:27.120 done with your life, how do you think you're having 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:29.360 an impact on the world for the betterment of the world. 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:32.960 I think in two ways. So one, I personally believe 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:36.680 there's no more interesting challenge than trying to understand the 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:40.320 code of life. And I think that twenty three is 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:46.760 frankly the best positioned entity public or not not public 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:50.120 or you know, for profit or nonprofit, we are by 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.000 far and away the best positioned entity to solve the 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:55.720 question as to what does the human genome mean and 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:58.880 how can you apply it to individuals? So one, I 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:00.960 think we are going to be the lead in deciphering 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:06.520 the human genetic code. Second, I transform people's lives, like 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:08.560 it's what keeps me up at night, and it's also 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:11.640 what keeps me going. I tell someone that they're higher 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:15.200 risk for breast cancer and that leads them to get amasectomy, 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:20.320 and I can potentially prevent an early death, like that's amazing. 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:23.240 Or I can reconnect to family members where they've been 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:26.320 lost for years. Like. One thing twenty three ME does 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:32.160 is that we generate incredibly meaningful information for individuals. By 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:34.080 the way, all my twenty three and ME tasks I'm 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:36.520 waiting for they get the results soon. How can I 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:38.920 be certain that nobody will know the results other than me? 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:40.880 How can I be sure that you're not selling the 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:43.560 data to somebody else? So we honor the fact that, like, 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:45.840 this is your genome and you should do with it 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:48.520 what you want. So that means, though I'm not going 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:51.360 to prevent you from sharing it, I'm going to give 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:54.680 you options. So we as we ask you, do you 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:58.640 want to opt into research and over our customers are 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:02.040 now opting in so but it's not a default. We 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:04.840 actually ask you like you have to elect that option. 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:07.880 If you wanted to share your genetic information with me, 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:11.960 you have that opportunity. But there's no defaults, like nothing 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:14.760 is mandatory. So it's all about you being in control. 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:18.040 So your company went public not too long ago through 0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:20.560 a spac process. I think it was a spact that 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:24.320 was involved with Richard Branson and Virgin So any regrets 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:26.960 to backgoing public or throw us back? No, I mean 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.199 it's interesting because it's it's definitely not you know, the 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:33.040 most positive of market times. Um, but I loved I 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:37.159 love the process, like being being public. The process of 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:39.720 going public is a lot of work. And so when 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:42.600 we decided about or we at least looked at opportunities 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:44.840 to go public, Like one of the big considerations for 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:46.480 me was how much time is it going to take 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:49.400 from me? And I wanted, like, I'm very much focused 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:51.320 and very much of a CEO that like I like 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:53.000 to operate and I like to be in the weed, 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:55.679 like how are we executing? So I wanted to make 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:58.040 sure I was minimizing times, like how much time is 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:00.200 it going to take for the whole process? This back 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:03.960 process is incredibly efficient. Um. I got incredibly lucky with 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:07.320 Richard Branson. He's a very high quality investor. He has 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:11.359 an incredibly educated team. He's actually invested in healthcare before. 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:14.360 He's run you know, benefits companies. He's had a care 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:17.639 company in the UK, so he knows this space and 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:20.679 he was specifically looking at healthcare in a consumer space. 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:24.000 So I'm happy with the like the process was smooth 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:27.480 and we ended up in a really successful situation. But 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:31.800 many tech companies have seen their prices go down, so 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:35.479 you you have as well? I said, so does that 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:38.119 bother you and you're saying, well, we'll come back, or 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:41.080 what is your view generally on the the future of 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:43.400 tech companies in terms of the valuations they once had. 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:46.080 I think coming from Wall Street has given me a 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:49.080 good perspective on this. You know, Wall Street is not 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:52.919 always a reflective of true value. And I can also 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:55.920 say that there's like no shortage of opportunities that people 0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:58.639 have missed where there's a diamond in the gem like 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:00.800 you know, or diamond the rough where I could look 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:02.320 at like the early days of Google, or I could 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:04.640 look at the early days of Amazon, where people did 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:06.919 not really understand the story, and I would put us 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:09.680 in that bucket. A lot of people don't quite understand 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:12.639 what we do. They either think are we ancestry. We 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:15.160 also have a biotech side, which we haven't even talked about, 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:16.960 is like how do you translate all this data into 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:21.760 drug discovery? So we're complicated story. The market conditions are bad. 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:25.560 You know, markets are efficient over time, You're largely seen 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:29.359 as a consumer company, and consumer companies have relatively lower 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:33.000 pe multiples tech companies and biotech companies when the market 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:35.959 comes back and higher multiple. So can you transform your 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:39.760 company into being a tech or biotech company by working 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:43.560 on disease solutions as opposed to just giving people their information? 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:47.080 We are, Um, that's actually one of the beauties. So 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:49.440 twenty three AM when we started the company, remember I said, 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:52.760 it was like all about like exploring the genome. And 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:54.080 so one of the things we do is we have 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:56.560 this huge research arm like how can I help best 0:19:56.680 --> 0:19:59.800 understand what the human genome means? And that's part of 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:02.280 the whole process from the very beginning, is how do 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:05.480 I consent people for research, engage them in research, learn 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:08.720 about them, and then I have a whole analytics team 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:10.879 and data science team that's in looking at all that 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:13.160