1 00:00:08,245 --> 00:00:13,565 Speaker 1: School of Humans. Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode 2 00:00:13,605 --> 00:00:17,405 Speaker 1: of Cadaver gals Omge So happy you're here. M This 3 00:00:17,445 --> 00:00:19,845 Speaker 1: is the podcast where we talk about death, dying, and 4 00:00:19,965 --> 00:00:23,325 Speaker 1: the weird, bizarre ways that people die to cope with 5 00:00:23,365 --> 00:00:27,605 Speaker 1: our immortality. Yes, I'm one of your hosts, Nika, along 6 00:00:27,645 --> 00:00:34,685 Speaker 1: with Gabe Hello, Yes, and Taylor. Hi. Cutis Cutis on 7 00:00:34,725 --> 00:00:37,645 Speaker 1: today's show. Um, we're going to be exploring how a 8 00:00:37,765 --> 00:00:42,285 Speaker 1: tarot card reading led to death, own guy, and um, 9 00:00:42,645 --> 00:00:46,285 Speaker 1: why playing with literally anything could actually be really deadly. 10 00:00:47,205 --> 00:00:51,245 Speaker 1: As always, we do have some content warnings, so they 11 00:00:51,245 --> 00:00:58,565 Speaker 1: are as follows choking, death, hostage situation, UM, psychics, murder, 12 00:00:58,965 --> 00:01:04,165 Speaker 1: sexual assault, and death of a child. Wow, sounds like 13 00:01:04,205 --> 00:01:24,685 Speaker 1: a good shows, like a great show. And que Alligator music. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 14 00:01:24,925 --> 00:01:28,205 Speaker 1: we're all here. Alligator music was so nice. Thanks Gabby 15 00:01:28,245 --> 00:01:31,205 Speaker 1: for making that. That's always just rolling in the back 16 00:01:31,245 --> 00:01:33,845 Speaker 1: of my brain at all times. Yeah, that's like our 17 00:01:33,925 --> 00:01:39,965 Speaker 1: low level anxiety, That's what it sounds like. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, 18 00:01:40,205 --> 00:01:44,245 Speaker 1: that's the equivalent of like the monkey clapping toy, which 19 00:01:44,285 --> 00:01:46,125 Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about toys today. I don't even 20 00:01:46,165 --> 00:01:49,565 Speaker 1: mean to do that. Wow, I did it. Wow, I'm 21 00:01:49,605 --> 00:01:56,285 Speaker 1: so so Natural Explorer says, Okay, so toys they can 22 00:01:56,325 --> 00:01:59,845 Speaker 1: be kind of scary. Yeah, they can be. So that's 23 00:01:59,845 --> 00:02:04,005 Speaker 1: a great cue. They certainly. Yeah. Um, I think as always, 24 00:02:04,245 --> 00:02:07,845 Speaker 1: we sometimes have sadder deaths than other deaths, and then 25 00:02:07,845 --> 00:02:09,965 Speaker 1: we're always like shook by the fact that it's sad. 26 00:02:10,005 --> 00:02:12,485 Speaker 1: But it's going to be. This one's pretty sad because 27 00:02:12,525 --> 00:02:16,965 Speaker 1: it involves the death of a child. So let's do it. 28 00:02:17,205 --> 00:02:21,845 Speaker 1: Everyone ready, Yes, I mean, like as ready as we'll 29 00:02:21,845 --> 00:02:24,605 Speaker 1: ever be, you know. Yeah. Yeah, so we're gonna be 30 00:02:24,645 --> 00:02:27,685 Speaker 1: talking about lawn darts. Had y'all ever heard of lawn 31 00:02:27,765 --> 00:02:31,965 Speaker 1: darts afore? Aren't darts that like bar game that you 32 00:02:32,085 --> 00:02:38,205 Speaker 1: throw on like a circular situation board, So it's just 33 00:02:38,325 --> 00:02:42,605 Speaker 1: like mega darts. Yeah, it's mega darts basically. So it 34 00:02:42,645 --> 00:02:44,605 Speaker 1: was a game that I think was created in like 35 00:02:44,645 --> 00:02:48,245 Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies or that's when they started. I think 36 00:02:48,285 --> 00:02:50,285 Speaker 1: in the nineteen sixties that's when they were they came 37 00:02:50,325 --> 00:02:53,045 Speaker 1: to the United States. They were usually manufactured in Taiwan 38 00:02:53,125 --> 00:02:56,245 Speaker 1: and Hong Kong. But it is a toy where yes, 39 00:02:56,285 --> 00:03:00,925 Speaker 1: it's a very large dart and it doesn't have like 40 00:03:00,965 --> 00:03:04,085 Speaker 1: a sharp point, but it is like just a big 41 00:03:04,165 --> 00:03:09,205 Speaker 1: steel sort of blunt object attached to a longer back 42 00:03:09,325 --> 00:03:11,365 Speaker 1: flying piece, you know. So it's just like a very 43 00:03:11,365 --> 00:03:16,365 Speaker 1: big dart and then you play them. Yes, so they're heavy. Yeah, 44 00:03:16,365 --> 00:03:19,285 Speaker 1: how heavy are we talking? They're pretty heavy. I mean 45 00:03:19,285 --> 00:03:21,845 Speaker 1: they're probably like each individual darts probably not more than 46 00:03:21,885 --> 00:03:24,085 Speaker 1: a pound, but it's like it's less than a pound 47 00:03:24,125 --> 00:03:27,165 Speaker 1: for sure, but it's still like pretty significant compared to 48 00:03:27,205 --> 00:03:30,125 Speaker 1: your everyday dart you know that you get at the bar. 49 00:03:30,645 --> 00:03:34,565 Speaker 1: But yeah, so lawn darts it's basically it's more like horseshoe, 50 00:03:35,085 --> 00:03:37,845 Speaker 1: that game where you throw the horseshoe into the ring 51 00:03:38,365 --> 00:03:40,325 Speaker 1: or like onto a thing, but instead you're throwing these 52 00:03:40,405 --> 00:03:44,445 Speaker 1: darts into a ring type thing and then depending on 53 00:03:44,485 --> 00:03:47,725 Speaker 1: like which if it's inside of it or outside of it, 54 00:03:47,765 --> 00:03:50,965 Speaker 1: you get points, etc. Who fun for the whole family, 55 00:03:51,005 --> 00:03:54,525 Speaker 1: Except it's not. The thing is In nineteen seventy the 56 00:03:54,645 --> 00:03:58,645 Speaker 1: United States actually banned lawn darts because they were so 57 00:03:58,725 --> 00:04:00,405 Speaker 1: dangerous and there was a lot of injuries that were 58 00:04:00,405 --> 00:04:04,005 Speaker 1: piling up. But then in nineteen seventy six, because of 59 00:04:04,005 --> 00:04:07,925 Speaker 1: pressure from the sporting its industry, you know that lobby, 60 00:04:08,165 --> 00:04:10,485 Speaker 1: they're like, hey, everybody wants the lawn darts. We want 61 00:04:10,485 --> 00:04:12,045 Speaker 1: to make, we want to sell them still, so they've 62 00:04:12,365 --> 00:04:15,805 Speaker 1: worked out a new law with the manufacturers. I was like, yeah, okay, 63 00:04:15,805 --> 00:04:20,005 Speaker 1: sure we can sell lawn darts, but they have to 64 00:04:20,045 --> 00:04:23,125 Speaker 1: only be in sporting goods stores. They can't be inside 65 00:04:23,165 --> 00:04:25,925 Speaker 1: toy departments, they can't even be close to toy departments, 66 00:04:26,325 --> 00:04:28,725 Speaker 1: and they must have a warning, a label on them 67 00:04:28,725 --> 00:04:31,645 Speaker 1: that says, hey, warning, this could be very dangerous if 68 00:04:31,765 --> 00:04:34,685 Speaker 1: children were playing with these inappropriately, I mean, but if 69 00:04:34,765 --> 00:04:37,165 Speaker 1: adults are playing with them inappropriately. I mean, it's not 70 00:04:37,205 --> 00:04:40,405 Speaker 1: like the people like adults are playing this and not 71 00:04:40,485 --> 00:04:43,245 Speaker 1: having alcoholic beverages, do you know what I mean? And 72 00:04:43,325 --> 00:04:46,325 Speaker 1: it also just sounds dangerous to begin with. This is 73 00:04:46,365 --> 00:04:50,045 Speaker 1: clearly created by a man. Yeah, so this reminds me 74 00:04:50,205 --> 00:04:52,885 Speaker 1: alcohol and playing a game reminds me of this Colombian 75 00:04:52,965 --> 00:04:57,205 Speaker 1: game called the Hall where basically you have like metal 76 00:04:57,445 --> 00:05:01,445 Speaker 1: balls and then you throw them kind of like ski 77 00:05:01,565 --> 00:05:04,965 Speaker 1: ball to this clay mound, and the clay mound has 78 00:05:05,005 --> 00:05:07,885 Speaker 1: gunpower hidden inside of it, and if you hit the 79 00:05:08,085 --> 00:05:12,085 Speaker 1: ball to the gunpowdered explodes and you win. You also 80 00:05:12,205 --> 00:05:15,525 Speaker 1: traditionally always have to be drinking while playing this games. 81 00:05:15,685 --> 00:05:18,485 Speaker 1: I used to play it safe. Yeah, I was so young, 82 00:05:18,645 --> 00:05:20,805 Speaker 1: Like when I would play it in Colombia in the farm, 83 00:05:21,445 --> 00:05:24,445 Speaker 1: did you ever win? No? I don't have very good 84 00:05:24,445 --> 00:05:29,365 Speaker 1: aim alas. Wow, well that game also sounds a little 85 00:05:29,365 --> 00:05:32,685 Speaker 1: bit dangerous. But I'm glad you survived it and that 86 00:05:32,725 --> 00:05:36,605 Speaker 1: you made it here today, so congratulations I'm making it. 87 00:05:37,565 --> 00:05:41,565 Speaker 1: But anyway, back to the lawn darts. So yeah, basically 88 00:05:41,605 --> 00:05:44,125 Speaker 1: anything a child touch can be can be dangerous. I 89 00:05:44,165 --> 00:05:46,365 Speaker 1: think is also a theme, so just watch out. But 90 00:05:47,085 --> 00:05:50,765 Speaker 1: the reason this story came to I think a few 91 00:05:50,845 --> 00:05:52,885 Speaker 1: years ago a lot more people were talking about lawn 92 00:05:52,965 --> 00:05:56,325 Speaker 1: darts because they were just trying to compare it to 93 00:05:56,605 --> 00:05:59,845 Speaker 1: guns safety and being like, hey, the story that I'm 94 00:05:59,845 --> 00:06:02,885 Speaker 1: going to tell this like one girl died and then 95 00:06:03,005 --> 00:06:07,445 Speaker 1: lawn darts were made basically illegal, but guns killed lots 96 00:06:07,445 --> 00:06:11,285 Speaker 1: of people every year and are not so interesting. Okay, 97 00:06:11,325 --> 00:06:14,805 Speaker 1: So in We're in nineteen eighty seven April nineteen eighty 98 00:06:14,845 --> 00:06:17,885 Speaker 1: seven and seven year old Michelle Snow is playing in 99 00:06:17,925 --> 00:06:21,045 Speaker 1: the front yard of her house in California while her 100 00:06:21,085 --> 00:06:23,605 Speaker 1: nine year old brother and his pals are playing out back. 101 00:06:24,245 --> 00:06:26,765 Speaker 1: The brother had gotten his hands on a set of 102 00:06:26,845 --> 00:06:29,245 Speaker 1: lawn darts that their parents had in the storage in 103 00:06:29,285 --> 00:06:32,085 Speaker 1: the garage. The dad, David Snow he had bought them 104 00:06:32,685 --> 00:06:34,605 Speaker 1: because he was trying to get because it came in 105 00:06:34,645 --> 00:06:38,605 Speaker 1: like a three pack set of volleyball badminton, and then 106 00:06:38,685 --> 00:06:40,445 Speaker 1: lawn darts were also in this set, so he had 107 00:06:40,445 --> 00:06:42,445 Speaker 1: bought the whole thing, not wanting to use the lawn 108 00:06:42,485 --> 00:06:44,285 Speaker 1: darts because he didn't know what those were and they 109 00:06:44,325 --> 00:06:46,925 Speaker 1: looked kind of sus so he had put them away 110 00:06:47,365 --> 00:06:50,605 Speaker 1: so they could use the volleyball set. But alas, the 111 00:06:50,845 --> 00:06:53,325 Speaker 1: boys found the lawn darts and they started playing with 112 00:06:53,365 --> 00:06:55,405 Speaker 1: them outside in the backyard. And the backyard in the 113 00:06:55,405 --> 00:06:58,165 Speaker 1: front yard were separated by a fence, and the boys 114 00:06:58,165 --> 00:07:00,885 Speaker 1: were just like, you know, chucking the lawn darts, and 115 00:07:00,925 --> 00:07:05,485 Speaker 1: then it accidentally chucked over the fence and that Michelle 116 00:07:05,565 --> 00:07:07,685 Speaker 1: was playing in the front yard and it landed into 117 00:07:07,925 --> 00:07:11,405 Speaker 1: her skull and pierced her skull and penetrated into her brain. 118 00:07:11,725 --> 00:07:14,365 Speaker 1: Oh no, And they predicted that it was at a 119 00:07:14,405 --> 00:07:18,565 Speaker 1: force of twenty three thousand pounds per square inch when 120 00:07:18,565 --> 00:07:21,045 Speaker 1: it drops from you know, a fifteen feet hight basically 121 00:07:21,125 --> 00:07:27,405 Speaker 1: from where it was thrown over the fence. She obviously 122 00:07:27,525 --> 00:07:29,965 Speaker 1: gets up, runs to the garage where her parents are 123 00:07:30,165 --> 00:07:34,045 Speaker 1: like sitting at the workbench. She's her dad describes this really, 124 00:07:34,125 --> 00:07:36,285 Speaker 1: it's so, it's so sad. He describes the scene of 125 00:07:36,285 --> 00:07:38,405 Speaker 1: her kind of like running in with her arms out, 126 00:07:38,805 --> 00:07:41,645 Speaker 1: and then she ran straight into the workbench and as 127 00:07:41,685 --> 00:07:43,765 Speaker 1: she was collapsing, her parents caught her. They took her 128 00:07:43,805 --> 00:07:45,805 Speaker 1: to the hospital and then she fell into a coma 129 00:07:45,885 --> 00:07:52,885 Speaker 1: and died three days later. No, this is so horrifying, Gabby, 130 00:07:52,965 --> 00:08:00,085 Speaker 1: this is so horrifying. Yeah. So obviously from the grief 131 00:08:00,285 --> 00:08:03,365 Speaker 1: of that of losing a child, the dad, David snow 132 00:08:03,445 --> 00:08:06,965 Speaker 1: he basically became like a one man crusader to ban 133 00:08:07,205 --> 00:08:10,685 Speaker 1: lawn darts in the United States, I imagine. So, yeah, 134 00:08:10,765 --> 00:08:13,765 Speaker 1: I think this story is interesting and that it's like 135 00:08:15,485 --> 00:08:20,045 Speaker 1: it just shows how much perseverance can pay off. But 136 00:08:20,085 --> 00:08:22,765 Speaker 1: it's also like so sad to know that it's motivated 137 00:08:22,805 --> 00:08:26,085 Speaker 1: by like a horrific tragedy and his sort of single 138 00:08:26,085 --> 00:08:31,365 Speaker 1: mindedness I imagine was you know, torturous for him emotionally, 139 00:08:31,365 --> 00:08:33,125 Speaker 1: but also you know, he's grieving the loss of his child. 140 00:08:33,165 --> 00:08:36,605 Speaker 1: So I just anyway, so he after this happened in 141 00:08:36,645 --> 00:08:39,885 Speaker 1: April nineteen eighty seven. He basically starts like drafting letters. 142 00:08:39,885 --> 00:08:43,365 Speaker 1: He drafts all these letters to people on Capitol Hill 143 00:08:43,845 --> 00:08:46,525 Speaker 1: pointing out how lawn darts are really dangerous and you know, 144 00:08:46,565 --> 00:08:48,165 Speaker 1: figuring out the shit that like it was banned in 145 00:08:48,165 --> 00:08:50,045 Speaker 1: the nineteen seventy so he's like, well, why are they 146 00:08:50,045 --> 00:08:54,125 Speaker 1: on the shelves. Also, he realized through doing all this 147 00:08:54,205 --> 00:08:57,205 Speaker 1: research on lawn darts that there's other things about the 148 00:08:57,245 --> 00:08:59,885 Speaker 1: placement of the lawn darts in the store that weren't 149 00:08:59,925 --> 00:09:02,605 Speaker 1: that wasn't compliant with the actual law. Because remember it 150 00:09:02,685 --> 00:09:05,485 Speaker 1: was like, hey, you can't have these and toy departments. 151 00:09:05,525 --> 00:09:07,725 Speaker 1: They also can't be like within a close proximity to 152 00:09:07,725 --> 00:09:10,245 Speaker 1: toy departments, and they can't be sold, and there needs 153 00:09:10,285 --> 00:09:13,165 Speaker 1: to be like a very clear label on the boxes. 154 00:09:13,405 --> 00:09:15,125 Speaker 1: There was a clear label on the box, but it 155 00:09:15,165 --> 00:09:18,845 Speaker 1: was very small and actually it was right next to 156 00:09:18,885 --> 00:09:22,845 Speaker 1: the toy department. So he just found like all these 157 00:09:22,845 --> 00:09:27,325 Speaker 1: compliance issues and he eventually like through doing his research, 158 00:09:27,365 --> 00:09:29,285 Speaker 1: he found that about a third of stores in the 159 00:09:29,365 --> 00:09:31,765 Speaker 1: United States weren't compliant with this, and also one hundred 160 00:09:31,765 --> 00:09:37,885 Speaker 1: percent of manufacturers weren't compliant with the labeling on the boxes. Basically, Wow, 161 00:09:38,325 --> 00:09:43,005 Speaker 1: so obviously the rule wasn't being followed. I mean, but 162 00:09:43,045 --> 00:09:46,365 Speaker 1: who would be enforcing that anyway, really the US Consumer 163 00:09:46,405 --> 00:09:48,845 Speaker 1: Product Safety Commissioner or the people who are in charge 164 00:09:48,885 --> 00:09:51,725 Speaker 1: of that. So that's basically it's actually at the time, 165 00:09:51,725 --> 00:09:54,805 Speaker 1: it was only like a three person committee in Congress, 166 00:09:54,925 --> 00:09:56,805 Speaker 1: and then they're the ones who are supposed to maintain 167 00:09:56,885 --> 00:09:59,645 Speaker 1: ordinances and make sure things are being compliant with you know, 168 00:09:59,725 --> 00:10:03,165 Speaker 1: all sorts of products. That's a pretty big job for 169 00:10:03,245 --> 00:10:06,485 Speaker 1: three people. Yeah. So yeah, sort of David snow and 170 00:10:06,565 --> 00:10:09,885 Speaker 1: doing all of this, he ended up quitting his job, 171 00:10:10,005 --> 00:10:15,205 Speaker 1: taking a unpaid leave of absence. He started dedicating all 172 00:10:15,205 --> 00:10:18,245 Speaker 1: of his money and time to this. He spent all 173 00:10:18,285 --> 00:10:21,325 Speaker 1: of his life savings buying tickets to go to and 174 00:10:21,365 --> 00:10:26,725 Speaker 1: from Washington, DC to start like lobbying senators and congress people. 175 00:10:27,125 --> 00:10:29,525 Speaker 1: So he goes to DC because he gets invited by 176 00:10:29,565 --> 00:10:33,805 Speaker 1: like a Congressional aid to testify about the dangers of 177 00:10:33,885 --> 00:10:37,565 Speaker 1: lawn darts, and then it's proposed in front of the 178 00:10:37,605 --> 00:10:41,485 Speaker 1: Commission for Product Safety, and the chairman at the time, 179 00:10:41,845 --> 00:10:43,445 Speaker 1: you know, was like, I don't really think there was 180 00:10:43,445 --> 00:10:47,045 Speaker 1: actually anything that was violated, and you know, these don't 181 00:10:47,045 --> 00:10:49,885 Speaker 1: actually seem that dangerous because the Commission had actually done 182 00:10:49,885 --> 00:10:51,765 Speaker 1: a study and found in the last twenty in the 183 00:10:51,845 --> 00:10:54,525 Speaker 1: last twelve years, that there had only been twenty two 184 00:10:55,525 --> 00:10:59,485 Speaker 1: injuries due to lawn darts. But when they reinvestigated, they 185 00:10:59,485 --> 00:11:02,125 Speaker 1: found there was actually six thousand, one hundred injuries due 186 00:11:02,165 --> 00:11:05,805 Speaker 1: to lawn darts, and the okay, that's a yeah, it's 187 00:11:05,805 --> 00:11:08,765 Speaker 1: a big difference. And it was through like David Snow's 188 00:11:08,765 --> 00:11:10,925 Speaker 1: perseverance to be like, hey, you should like look into 189 00:11:10,965 --> 00:11:13,685 Speaker 1: this because twenty two that's fake. That's fake as hell. 190 00:11:14,125 --> 00:11:16,845 Speaker 1: And of like a like three fourths of those numbers 191 00:11:16,845 --> 00:11:19,845 Speaker 1: were injuries for kids who were under fifteen years old, 192 00:11:20,365 --> 00:11:22,245 Speaker 1: and even more of those were kids under the age 193 00:11:22,285 --> 00:11:23,965 Speaker 1: of ten. And there was also a couple of cases 194 00:11:24,005 --> 00:11:26,645 Speaker 1: of other people who had you know, had their skulls 195 00:11:26,645 --> 00:11:30,085 Speaker 1: penetrated and were in like had neurological damage and we're 196 00:11:30,085 --> 00:11:35,445 Speaker 1: batalized it. So why did they initially only find twenty two. 197 00:11:36,245 --> 00:11:38,405 Speaker 1: I think they were just like not paying attention, you know, 198 00:11:39,045 --> 00:11:41,445 Speaker 1: so and they just like, I don't know. I think 199 00:11:41,445 --> 00:11:43,925 Speaker 1: it's interesting too to think about like how so much 200 00:11:43,965 --> 00:11:45,965 Speaker 1: of like getting things past in the United States are 201 00:11:46,005 --> 00:11:49,285 Speaker 1: like laws changing is just forcing people to pay attention 202 00:11:49,325 --> 00:11:51,765 Speaker 1: to it. And that's basically what this guy was doing, 203 00:11:51,805 --> 00:11:55,365 Speaker 1: which is like, hey, this happened to my daughter. Yeah, 204 00:11:55,405 --> 00:12:01,405 Speaker 1: and so at first the Commission rejected a ban on 205 00:12:01,565 --> 00:12:05,165 Speaker 1: lawn darts, and so obviously David Snow was very upset 206 00:12:05,205 --> 00:12:07,725 Speaker 1: about that, so he kept lobbying. He kept well, that's 207 00:12:07,725 --> 00:12:10,085 Speaker 1: when he started lobbying. That's when he basically he got 208 00:12:10,125 --> 00:12:12,885 Speaker 1: the attention of his senator and he was like, hey, 209 00:12:14,165 --> 00:12:17,005 Speaker 1: lawn darts, they're bad, and so his senator actually proposed 210 00:12:17,005 --> 00:12:20,885 Speaker 1: a law. And then David Snow started lobbying people and 211 00:12:20,925 --> 00:12:23,565 Speaker 1: would like literally go through like the US Capital and 212 00:12:23,605 --> 00:12:26,205 Speaker 1: like just find people sitting down and just like sitting 213 00:12:26,205 --> 00:12:27,405 Speaker 1: next to them and be like, hey, let me tell 214 00:12:27,405 --> 00:12:29,285 Speaker 1: you about the danger's lawn darts. He would just like 215 00:12:29,365 --> 00:12:32,965 Speaker 1: knock on everyone's doors and basically trying to get all 216 00:12:32,965 --> 00:12:34,965 Speaker 1: these people to pay attention to him. And he was 217 00:12:35,005 --> 00:12:39,285 Speaker 1: just like just kept at it for months and then 218 00:12:39,365 --> 00:12:43,445 Speaker 1: eventually yeah, and then it actually it's stirred up enough 219 00:12:43,605 --> 00:12:47,205 Speaker 1: controversy that people up because a lot of people you know, 220 00:12:47,245 --> 00:12:51,165 Speaker 1: obviously were in support of the band, but the chairman 221 00:12:51,205 --> 00:12:55,485 Speaker 1: of the Commission on the Safety of Products, they actually 222 00:12:55,525 --> 00:12:58,685 Speaker 1: were like calling for his removal at some point too. 223 00:12:59,045 --> 00:13:01,565 Speaker 1: I mean, like, who's the person that's like, no, we 224 00:13:01,645 --> 00:13:04,685 Speaker 1: need lawn darts. It's totally worth the risk. Like what 225 00:13:04,725 --> 00:13:08,325 Speaker 1: who's doing that? Lawn dart makers? Well, it was also 226 00:13:08,405 --> 00:13:10,725 Speaker 1: like there was one guy who was he was the 227 00:13:10,765 --> 00:13:13,845 Speaker 1: owner of Kent Sporting Goods, which was like a US 228 00:13:13,885 --> 00:13:17,765 Speaker 1: based supplier of lawn darts, and he was like, I 229 00:13:17,805 --> 00:13:20,205 Speaker 1: mean he also made this comparison up to guns too. 230 00:13:20,245 --> 00:13:22,205 Speaker 1: He was like, I think things are wrong with guns, 231 00:13:22,245 --> 00:13:24,485 Speaker 1: which is the greater evil. Lawn darts that killed three 232 00:13:24,525 --> 00:13:27,285 Speaker 1: people are guns that killed thousands a year. So he's 233 00:13:27,325 --> 00:13:28,805 Speaker 1: like bringing up this point. It's like, well, why are 234 00:13:28,805 --> 00:13:31,685 Speaker 1: we banning lawn darts? Guns killed so many more people 235 00:13:31,685 --> 00:13:34,805 Speaker 1: than lawn darts, so like we should just like keep 236 00:13:34,885 --> 00:13:38,605 Speaker 1: lawn darts. Yeah, which is like I would say the 237 00:13:38,645 --> 00:13:41,605 Speaker 1: same thing, but like my conclusion would be opposite. I'd 238 00:13:41,645 --> 00:13:43,845 Speaker 1: be like, hey, then maybe we shouldn't have as many guns. 239 00:13:44,045 --> 00:13:47,605 Speaker 1: Yeah like that, He's like, well, guns already kill so 240 00:13:47,645 --> 00:13:49,805 Speaker 1: many people, so what's up with lawn darts. It's only 241 00:13:49,845 --> 00:13:52,365 Speaker 1: like a few people have died. Well, you know, I 242 00:13:52,405 --> 00:13:56,245 Speaker 1: don't think lawn darts obviously weren't around when they were 243 00:13:56,245 --> 00:14:00,245 Speaker 1: writing the Constitution and everything and working on those amendments. 244 00:14:00,845 --> 00:14:04,285 Speaker 1: The right to bear lawn darts, yeah, that wasn't in 245 00:14:04,325 --> 00:14:07,685 Speaker 1: the Constitution, but yeah, so it was actually finally in 246 00:14:07,805 --> 00:14:11,805 Speaker 1: May nineteen eighty eight, the Commission did another vote after 247 00:14:11,885 --> 00:14:14,165 Speaker 1: there was all this pressure on it from different Senators 248 00:14:14,165 --> 00:14:17,245 Speaker 1: and congress people, and they did end up voting in 249 00:14:17,325 --> 00:14:22,485 Speaker 1: favor of banning lawn darts, so Dave Snowguy's wish, but 250 00:14:22,525 --> 00:14:24,645 Speaker 1: then they didn't it wasn't really going to go into 251 00:14:24,685 --> 00:14:28,125 Speaker 1: effect until nineteen eighty nine, so he just continued being like, hey, 252 00:14:28,165 --> 00:14:30,085 Speaker 1: we need to get this done, you know, the sooner 253 00:14:30,205 --> 00:14:33,325 Speaker 1: the better. So then finally in December of nineteen eighty eight, 254 00:14:33,325 --> 00:14:37,085 Speaker 1: they were officially banned, taken off shelves and retailers across 255 00:14:37,085 --> 00:14:40,485 Speaker 1: the country. And I mean, obviously there wasn't like a 256 00:14:40,605 --> 00:14:43,765 Speaker 1: lawn dart patrol team that like went out to take 257 00:14:43,805 --> 00:14:45,605 Speaker 1: people's lawn darts. I think there was just like a 258 00:14:45,645 --> 00:14:48,405 Speaker 1: public There was just like a release that was like, hey, guys, 259 00:14:48,405 --> 00:14:51,485 Speaker 1: this is dangerous, probably like don't use them around your 260 00:14:51,565 --> 00:14:53,925 Speaker 1: kids or whatever, don't let your kids play with these. 261 00:14:54,885 --> 00:14:59,525 Speaker 1: So they were banned they're officially banned, but there are 262 00:14:59,605 --> 00:15:02,445 Speaker 1: people who have been who have continued to make lawn 263 00:15:02,525 --> 00:15:05,725 Speaker 1: darts and to sort of get around the legislation, they've 264 00:15:05,725 --> 00:15:10,005 Speaker 1: done instead is they sell lawn darts, but they you 265 00:15:10,045 --> 00:15:12,165 Speaker 1: have to buy two different parts of it. Basically, it's 266 00:15:12,165 --> 00:15:14,365 Speaker 1: like the tail of it and the tip of it. 267 00:15:14,605 --> 00:15:16,685 Speaker 1: You have to buy those separately, but then you separately, 268 00:15:16,685 --> 00:15:19,245 Speaker 1: but then you can assemble them together to make your 269 00:15:19,245 --> 00:15:22,285 Speaker 1: own lawn darts. You know, that big lawn dart legislative 270 00:15:22,285 --> 00:15:24,685 Speaker 1: loophole that people are just really thirsty to get around. 271 00:15:24,805 --> 00:15:27,725 Speaker 1: So I just don't understand, like, do we really need 272 00:15:27,805 --> 00:15:31,285 Speaker 1: lawn darts that bad? I just don't think so. Yeah. 273 00:15:31,365 --> 00:15:33,725 Speaker 1: I mean I'm living my best life without them, So 274 00:15:33,885 --> 00:15:37,565 Speaker 1: I'm so happy to know you're living your best life. Taylor. 275 00:15:37,965 --> 00:15:42,005 Speaker 1: Thank you well, Thank you so much Gabby for sharing. 276 00:15:43,165 --> 00:15:47,205 Speaker 1: Oh it's still like obviously such a sad story, but 277 00:15:47,285 --> 00:15:50,165 Speaker 1: you are right about his persistence, and I mean, look, 278 00:15:50,165 --> 00:15:52,805 Speaker 1: he got a banned. That's pretty amazing. I've never even 279 00:15:52,885 --> 00:15:55,605 Speaker 1: heard of lawn darts until you started talking about them. 280 00:15:55,725 --> 00:15:59,085 Speaker 1: So thanks David Snow for getting those off the shelves. 281 00:15:59,205 --> 00:16:02,165 Speaker 1: Lawn darts are off the streets. When we come back, 282 00:16:02,205 --> 00:16:05,525 Speaker 1: I will be talking about other dangerous toys. And I 283 00:16:05,565 --> 00:16:07,965 Speaker 1: think we're only going up from here, So stay tuned. 284 00:16:10,725 --> 00:16:17,525 Speaker 1: Welcome back, Welcome back. Um, yes, toys, toys, not sex toys, 285 00:16:17,685 --> 00:16:23,725 Speaker 1: children's toys. So I was researching a little bit. And 286 00:16:24,405 --> 00:16:27,365 Speaker 1: do you all remember where Bindy's a big thing in 287 00:16:27,405 --> 00:16:32,205 Speaker 1: the US, Like, oh, I don't know. Bindy's. They were 288 00:16:32,245 --> 00:16:34,525 Speaker 1: a big thing in Australia. They were also in the US, 289 00:16:34,605 --> 00:16:36,645 Speaker 1: but I'm not sure if they were like, as you know, 290 00:16:36,805 --> 00:16:39,165 Speaker 1: big or whatever I think they were. What are they 291 00:16:39,725 --> 00:16:41,845 Speaker 1: very popular? Okay? So they were very popular in the 292 00:16:41,925 --> 00:16:45,565 Speaker 1: late nineties slash two thousands early because I was an 293 00:16:45,565 --> 00:16:49,925 Speaker 1: adult by then. She was already forty five by then. 294 00:16:50,005 --> 00:16:52,925 Speaker 1: Yeah right, all right, gotcha. Well, basically what they were 295 00:16:53,765 --> 00:16:56,685 Speaker 1: little dots. There were little colorful dots and then you 296 00:16:56,685 --> 00:16:59,205 Speaker 1: would put them on a tray to create like designs, 297 00:16:59,325 --> 00:17:01,645 Speaker 1: and then you would spray the designs with water and 298 00:17:01,685 --> 00:17:04,725 Speaker 1: they would merch together and that's it, like you would 299 00:17:04,765 --> 00:17:06,645 Speaker 1: have art. Then you could, you know, do whatever you 300 00:17:06,685 --> 00:17:11,005 Speaker 1: wanted with your Bindy's. I never had them because I 301 00:17:11,005 --> 00:17:12,925 Speaker 1: don't think they ever really interested me, to be honest, 302 00:17:13,005 --> 00:17:14,325 Speaker 1: Like I want to be like, oh, it was poll 303 00:17:14,485 --> 00:17:15,765 Speaker 1: but I really don't think that was the case. I 304 00:17:15,805 --> 00:17:17,925 Speaker 1: think I just never were just thoughts. You would put 305 00:17:17,965 --> 00:17:20,605 Speaker 1: on things and then spray them with trey, yeah, and 306 00:17:20,605 --> 00:17:22,565 Speaker 1: then spray them with water and then and they would 307 00:17:22,605 --> 00:17:26,365 Speaker 1: just use like fuck art when she was a kid, 308 00:17:26,725 --> 00:17:28,645 Speaker 1: I don't need that. Well, I just think I was 309 00:17:28,725 --> 00:17:31,445 Speaker 1: more creative than using a stencil to like put some 310 00:17:31,485 --> 00:17:34,165 Speaker 1: boots together. Like, come on, we all know she's like 311 00:17:34,245 --> 00:17:38,245 Speaker 1: shaming people. Yeah, I didn't need that. I didn't need that. 312 00:17:38,925 --> 00:17:40,645 Speaker 1: Do you actually want to know swithing? Funny though, I 313 00:17:40,685 --> 00:17:44,645 Speaker 1: was not very creatively, like good at anything. Because one 314 00:17:44,685 --> 00:17:47,565 Speaker 1: time in art class we made like clay models or 315 00:17:47,565 --> 00:17:51,485 Speaker 1: whatever for our parents, and I remember specifically going into 316 00:17:51,525 --> 00:17:54,045 Speaker 1: the art room during lunch and stealing someone else's because 317 00:17:54,085 --> 00:17:55,325 Speaker 1: mine was so bad, and I gave it to my 318 00:17:55,325 --> 00:17:56,965 Speaker 1: mom as a present and she didn't think out that 319 00:17:57,005 --> 00:18:03,405 Speaker 1: I was another kids until literally three years threat. And 320 00:18:03,525 --> 00:18:05,645 Speaker 1: what did it mean that that clay thing that's on 321 00:18:05,685 --> 00:18:08,405 Speaker 1: your night's sand is not mine? I'm kidding, Um, I 322 00:18:08,405 --> 00:18:15,445 Speaker 1: think we threw it away. Okay, you stole it? I can't, Okay, 323 00:18:13,205 --> 00:18:21,525 Speaker 1: So anyway, what happens, Yes, the bendis so um. In 324 00:18:21,565 --> 00:18:26,845 Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, they had to be recalled because, um, 325 00:18:27,405 --> 00:18:29,045 Speaker 1: the factory that they were being made in, this is 326 00:18:29,085 --> 00:18:31,165 Speaker 1: real bad. The factor that they were being made in. 327 00:18:31,485 --> 00:18:34,965 Speaker 1: They had used a cheap chemical on the toys instead 328 00:18:34,965 --> 00:18:37,365 Speaker 1: of the chemical they were supposed to use, and this 329 00:18:37,445 --> 00:18:41,885 Speaker 1: cheap chemical was very toxic. Now back while, the reason 330 00:18:41,925 --> 00:18:44,805 Speaker 1: why they switched it is because the normal chemical they 331 00:18:44,805 --> 00:18:47,085 Speaker 1: were supposed to use was I think three to seven 332 00:18:47,125 --> 00:18:50,005 Speaker 1: times more expensive than usual. So they were like, oh, 333 00:18:50,045 --> 00:18:56,925 Speaker 1: we'll cut some cornas well. Don't do that because because 334 00:18:57,245 --> 00:19:01,285 Speaker 1: the chemical was basically an active sedative. And then obviously 335 00:19:01,485 --> 00:19:04,485 Speaker 1: kids see like colorful beads, They're like, I need to 336 00:19:04,965 --> 00:19:08,645 Speaker 1: eat that. And so a lot of kids swallowed those 337 00:19:08,685 --> 00:19:12,645 Speaker 1: beads and then they had to be hospitalized and they 338 00:19:12,645 --> 00:19:16,085 Speaker 1: were in like comas. Yeah, it was bad, and doctors 339 00:19:16,085 --> 00:19:18,645 Speaker 1: found out that it was directly because of the chemical 340 00:19:18,845 --> 00:19:23,005 Speaker 1: in these beads. So they made drug beads. They literally 341 00:19:23,005 --> 00:19:27,205 Speaker 1: made drug beads absolutely for babies. Great yeah, yeah, because 342 00:19:27,565 --> 00:19:30,445 Speaker 1: the doctors explained it was an overdose from having so 343 00:19:30,485 --> 00:19:34,565 Speaker 1: many of the drug beads and then beats literally and 344 00:19:34,645 --> 00:19:38,085 Speaker 1: so in North America Australia and Europe, they all had 345 00:19:38,085 --> 00:19:40,485 Speaker 1: to recall the toys. And then in the middle of 346 00:19:40,525 --> 00:19:45,885 Speaker 1: this recal recal okay in the press was worried. This 347 00:19:45,925 --> 00:19:49,245 Speaker 1: is so funny that by sharing how the beads kind 348 00:19:49,285 --> 00:19:52,445 Speaker 1: of had like drugs in them, you could create a 349 00:19:52,525 --> 00:19:56,805 Speaker 1: Bindi's black market because when you ingested the bindies, if 350 00:19:56,845 --> 00:20:00,045 Speaker 1: you ingested just enough, you'd get high. If you ingested 351 00:20:00,085 --> 00:20:05,725 Speaker 1: too many, you would die. People are so frustrating. People 352 00:20:05,725 --> 00:20:08,245 Speaker 1: are in saying, honestly, but it's true. Like free drugs, 353 00:20:08,325 --> 00:20:11,205 Speaker 1: you know, in this little toy for four you still 354 00:20:11,245 --> 00:20:19,125 Speaker 1: gotta buyids discount discount drug beads for babies, that's what 355 00:20:19,165 --> 00:20:23,885 Speaker 1: they're called. So yeah, people were just crazy, and then 356 00:20:23,925 --> 00:20:26,165 Speaker 1: they had to be recalled, and then they had to 357 00:20:26,285 --> 00:20:29,965 Speaker 1: obviously like take away the bad chemicals, and then they rebranded. 358 00:20:30,005 --> 00:20:32,725 Speaker 1: I think they're called like aqua beads now or whatever. 359 00:20:32,965 --> 00:20:36,045 Speaker 1: They still exist though, well, who needs tide pods when 360 00:20:36,045 --> 00:20:39,485 Speaker 1: you have drug beads? You know, absolutely. There was another 361 00:20:39,525 --> 00:20:42,805 Speaker 1: toy recall, though, this one is really close to my 362 00:20:42,845 --> 00:20:46,045 Speaker 1: heart and I'm going to talk about it. So this 363 00:20:46,085 --> 00:20:51,525 Speaker 1: one affected my childhood experience directly because I when I 364 00:20:51,525 --> 00:20:54,085 Speaker 1: was growing up in Colombia, it was tradition for me, 365 00:20:54,445 --> 00:20:56,805 Speaker 1: or Australia too. This I kind of found them everywhere 366 00:20:56,805 --> 00:21:02,125 Speaker 1: except for the US. The Musum. I grew up eating 367 00:21:02,405 --> 00:21:06,525 Speaker 1: kinder eggs, you know, like the like volate eggs that 368 00:21:06,645 --> 00:21:09,485 Speaker 1: had the toy inside, and you would unwrap them and 369 00:21:09,485 --> 00:21:12,245 Speaker 1: then eat it. And then I would like, I don't know, 370 00:21:12,325 --> 00:21:14,685 Speaker 1: sometimes try to separate the like milk chocolate from the 371 00:21:14,685 --> 00:21:16,205 Speaker 1: white chocolate. Was like a whole thing. I love it 372 00:21:16,245 --> 00:21:18,605 Speaker 1: so much. And then there was an egg inside egg 373 00:21:18,645 --> 00:21:24,245 Speaker 1: inside the egg exception, and you would find a toy. 374 00:21:24,365 --> 00:21:26,485 Speaker 1: And I didn't really ever care about the toys, but 375 00:21:26,565 --> 00:21:28,845 Speaker 1: I remember some kids like collected the toys like it 376 00:21:28,885 --> 00:21:32,205 Speaker 1: was a big thing. So tell me why I immigrate 377 00:21:32,245 --> 00:21:34,285 Speaker 1: to the US thinking my life is going to be better, 378 00:21:36,845 --> 00:21:40,405 Speaker 1: and I can't find a kinder egg anywhere, And I'm like, 379 00:21:40,645 --> 00:21:43,205 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, do they not exist here? Turns out, y'all 380 00:21:43,245 --> 00:21:46,645 Speaker 1: they're illegal. Yeah, we really are working on our priorities here. 381 00:21:46,645 --> 00:21:50,805 Speaker 1: We're like, no, no kinder eggs, yes, I know, literally 382 00:21:51,365 --> 00:21:54,165 Speaker 1: no kinder eggs, no lawn darts. But like I could 383 00:21:54,205 --> 00:21:58,085 Speaker 1: go get like an automatic gun right now anyway, So 384 00:21:59,045 --> 00:22:03,365 Speaker 1: I was horrified. And it turns out that the FDA 385 00:22:03,525 --> 00:22:07,005 Speaker 1: has a rule where you to not put quote unquote 386 00:22:07,085 --> 00:22:13,525 Speaker 1: non nutritive items inside of nutritive items. So basically nothing 387 00:22:13,565 --> 00:22:16,605 Speaker 1: inedible can go inside of something edible because of choking 388 00:22:16,685 --> 00:22:20,645 Speaker 1: hazards now, unlike lawn darts. Because I researched, what about 389 00:22:20,645 --> 00:22:28,925 Speaker 1: a kingcake? Oh right, right, Jesus all the time, all 390 00:22:28,965 --> 00:22:31,565 Speaker 1: the time. And when I looked up, hey, how many 391 00:22:31,605 --> 00:22:35,405 Speaker 1: people have been hurt by kinder eggs? I found three 392 00:22:35,445 --> 00:22:39,805 Speaker 1: examples in like decades of people choking on Kinder egg toys. 393 00:22:39,965 --> 00:22:42,965 Speaker 1: And none of the examples were from children biting into 394 00:22:42,965 --> 00:22:46,005 Speaker 1: the egg like the chocolate egg and then accidentally eating 395 00:22:46,045 --> 00:22:48,645 Speaker 1: the toy. It was always kids playing with the parts 396 00:22:48,685 --> 00:22:52,445 Speaker 1: that came inside the toy, which that's any toy. Yeah, 397 00:22:52,485 --> 00:22:56,525 Speaker 1: that's literally any toy. So that was just so bananas 398 00:22:56,565 --> 00:22:58,565 Speaker 1: to me. And then the more that I looked into it, 399 00:22:58,645 --> 00:23:01,445 Speaker 1: this is ridiculous. So it's obviously not the case in 400 00:23:01,485 --> 00:23:04,965 Speaker 1: Europe or Canada, and obviously not that's in America. They 401 00:23:04,965 --> 00:23:07,885 Speaker 1: are still thriving and I always go and buy some 402 00:23:08,005 --> 00:23:11,885 Speaker 1: whenever I go visit Columbia. But here rebel, yes, such 403 00:23:11,925 --> 00:23:14,445 Speaker 1: a rebel but here in the US there is a 404 00:23:14,525 --> 00:23:18,925 Speaker 1: black market for Kinder surprise eggs, and there are Kinder 405 00:23:19,005 --> 00:23:23,525 Speaker 1: eggs smugglers. I'm not kidding. So this man, who it's 406 00:23:23,645 --> 00:23:27,965 Speaker 1: literally his job to smuggle Kinder eggs said that one 407 00:23:28,005 --> 00:23:31,685 Speaker 1: time he was bringing twenty back from a Kinder eggs 408 00:23:31,685 --> 00:23:35,805 Speaker 1: smuggling trip and the custom agents detained him and forced 409 00:23:35,885 --> 00:23:38,925 Speaker 1: him to eat twenty of the chocolate eggs in front 410 00:23:38,925 --> 00:23:41,565 Speaker 1: of them, and then they let him keep the toys 411 00:23:41,605 --> 00:23:44,285 Speaker 1: inside because the toys are collectible. People want the toys. 412 00:23:44,685 --> 00:23:48,205 Speaker 1: So he ate twenty chocolate eggs in front of these 413 00:23:48,685 --> 00:23:53,405 Speaker 1: officers and then got to keep the toys. That's wow, 414 00:23:54,325 --> 00:23:59,125 Speaker 1: I'm not insane. And then another couple was charged with 415 00:23:59,165 --> 00:24:02,405 Speaker 1: a twelve thousand dollars fine for bringing in ten Kinder 416 00:24:02,485 --> 00:24:06,965 Speaker 1: eggs for their kids to try the orties. All right, 417 00:24:07,445 --> 00:24:10,925 Speaker 1: it's insane. It's just crazy, because I mean, we do 418 00:24:11,045 --> 00:24:13,405 Speaker 1: have Kinder eggs here, they just don't have the surprise 419 00:24:13,445 --> 00:24:16,685 Speaker 1: on the inside. They have like other shits. So I 420 00:24:16,685 --> 00:24:19,245 Speaker 1: feel like what might be more lucrative instead of being 421 00:24:19,285 --> 00:24:22,365 Speaker 1: a Kinder smuggler is if you were just you took 422 00:24:22,365 --> 00:24:25,285 Speaker 1: the regular eggs and then you fabricated toys and put 423 00:24:25,285 --> 00:24:28,045 Speaker 1: them inside and like took the you like reassembled them 424 00:24:28,165 --> 00:24:30,685 Speaker 1: or something. I love that idea, just like a side 425 00:24:30,725 --> 00:24:34,565 Speaker 1: hustle for the kinder smuggler. Okay, good idea. I'll let 426 00:24:34,605 --> 00:24:37,085 Speaker 1: him know. I'll read thank you. Yeah, thanks, I could 427 00:24:37,125 --> 00:24:39,845 Speaker 1: definitely interview him. M Yeah, I was just I was 428 00:24:39,885 --> 00:24:42,885 Speaker 1: so shocked. So I've always been tempted to bring Kinder 429 00:24:42,925 --> 00:24:46,365 Speaker 1: eggs into the US when I go visit, and now 430 00:24:46,405 --> 00:24:49,605 Speaker 1: I'm glad I have never done that because I jail. Yeah, 431 00:24:49,685 --> 00:24:53,285 Speaker 1: twelve thousand. I would rather eat. You know, I would 432 00:24:53,285 --> 00:24:57,085 Speaker 1: obviously rather eat twenty eggs than pay twelve thousand dollars. 433 00:24:57,125 --> 00:25:00,645 Speaker 1: You know, my personal presence. Would you rather go to 434 00:25:00,765 --> 00:25:03,605 Speaker 1: jail or eat a bunch of chocolates? You know that 435 00:25:03,645 --> 00:25:06,245 Speaker 1: man was sick on the plane though. You know, I 436 00:25:06,285 --> 00:25:08,485 Speaker 1: am trying to like eat healthier, so that is you know, 437 00:25:08,485 --> 00:25:10,965 Speaker 1: I got to think about that one, Taylor. Of course 438 00:25:11,245 --> 00:25:15,085 Speaker 1: I'm thinking jail time like I'm thinking jail. Well, speaking 439 00:25:15,205 --> 00:25:19,405 Speaker 1: of jail and authorities, Um, Taylor, don't you have an 440 00:25:19,405 --> 00:25:25,685 Speaker 1: exciting story about I don't know, officers. Uh yeah, it 441 00:25:25,805 --> 00:25:28,285 Speaker 1: is the police involved in your story. Yes, I had 442 00:25:28,285 --> 00:25:30,245 Speaker 1: to think for a second but then okay, then say 443 00:25:30,725 --> 00:25:35,885 Speaker 1: good leaden Mika. That was a wonderful leaden, Mika. I 444 00:25:35,965 --> 00:25:38,245 Speaker 1: came up with that phrase all on my own. I 445 00:25:38,325 --> 00:25:40,285 Speaker 1: have a long I'm holding a law dart to her 446 00:25:40,365 --> 00:25:45,765 Speaker 1: like neck right now, kidding, we're going to talk about divination. Okay, 447 00:25:45,845 --> 00:25:49,205 Speaker 1: oh never mind, Well we'll get to the cops, don't 448 00:25:49,205 --> 00:25:53,085 Speaker 1: you worry. But divination, if you don't know, is the 449 00:25:53,245 --> 00:25:57,485 Speaker 1: art or practice of reading the future, past present, you know, 450 00:25:57,605 --> 00:26:00,445 Speaker 1: just trying to read into what's happening in life, what 451 00:26:00,565 --> 00:26:04,845 Speaker 1: has happened in life, etc. So some examples of divination 452 00:26:04,965 --> 00:26:10,965 Speaker 1: would be your classic crystal ball, reading tea, leaves, pendulums, rooms, stones, 453 00:26:11,525 --> 00:26:15,725 Speaker 1: so many more, but the probably one of the most popular. Like, 454 00:26:15,805 --> 00:26:19,205 Speaker 1: if you're not super familiar, you've probably heard of tarot cards, 455 00:26:19,325 --> 00:26:24,005 Speaker 1: and that's what we're going to talk about today. So basically, 456 00:26:24,645 --> 00:26:28,645 Speaker 1: the deck of tarot card deck consists of minor arcana 457 00:26:28,765 --> 00:26:34,085 Speaker 1: and major arcana cards. And the minor cards are kind 458 00:26:34,085 --> 00:26:36,205 Speaker 1: of like the daily life things, like your daily life 459 00:26:36,325 --> 00:26:39,245 Speaker 1: ups and downs, you know, just your stuff that happens 460 00:26:39,285 --> 00:26:42,965 Speaker 1: to you on a daily basis, and the major arcana 461 00:26:43,125 --> 00:26:46,165 Speaker 1: are like the bigger events or the long term things 462 00:26:46,165 --> 00:26:49,445 Speaker 1: in life. So the person who's having their cards read 463 00:26:49,805 --> 00:26:52,925 Speaker 1: shuffles the deck and what basically what the idea is 464 00:26:52,965 --> 00:26:56,765 Speaker 1: that they're transferring their energy to that deck. But it's 465 00:26:56,805 --> 00:26:59,605 Speaker 1: really kind of just like about your perception, and it's 466 00:26:59,645 --> 00:27:03,605 Speaker 1: like how you perceive the cards basically, So you like 467 00:27:03,645 --> 00:27:06,285 Speaker 1: put your vibes into your cards. Yeah, and the cards 468 00:27:06,325 --> 00:27:08,965 Speaker 1: just kind of like guide you there, right, Um, and 469 00:27:09,285 --> 00:27:12,285 Speaker 1: I feel like that's what magic is though, Like it's 470 00:27:12,485 --> 00:27:16,125 Speaker 1: leaning into your perspective because if you want to see something, 471 00:27:16,125 --> 00:27:17,965 Speaker 1: you're going to see it, and you're going to convince 472 00:27:18,005 --> 00:27:21,245 Speaker 1: yourself like the cards were speaking to you, when in reality, 473 00:27:21,285 --> 00:27:23,405 Speaker 1: I feel like the cards just show you what you 474 00:27:23,445 --> 00:27:28,765 Speaker 1: already knew you know sometime. But no, but that is real, 475 00:27:28,925 --> 00:27:31,925 Speaker 1: Like you're like, it's it's a it's a joint thing, 476 00:27:31,925 --> 00:27:34,685 Speaker 1: it's a joint effort. You know. This one, this story 477 00:27:34,725 --> 00:27:36,685 Speaker 1: that I'm going to tell you, though, might change your 478 00:27:36,685 --> 00:27:39,125 Speaker 1: opinion and you might just be like this is straight 479 00:27:39,205 --> 00:27:43,845 Speaker 1: up real, real stuff. Okay. But basically there's like a 480 00:27:43,885 --> 00:27:46,325 Speaker 1: couple of kinds of a couple of ways to spread 481 00:27:46,365 --> 00:27:48,885 Speaker 1: your cards. But um, this one we're gonna talk about 482 00:27:48,925 --> 00:27:53,405 Speaker 1: ten cards were pulled anyway, So we're going to twenty fifteen. 483 00:27:53,845 --> 00:27:58,565 Speaker 1: On May fifth, in Brighton, England. There's this guy. His 484 00:27:58,685 --> 00:28:00,805 Speaker 1: name was Starr. He was in either his late forties 485 00:28:00,885 --> 00:28:04,805 Speaker 1: or early fifties, UM, and he visited a terror card 486 00:28:04,805 --> 00:28:07,405 Speaker 1: reader named is Brandon. I'm not sure if this was 487 00:28:07,445 --> 00:28:10,325 Speaker 1: a regular thing, but like I found out later that 488 00:28:10,325 --> 00:28:12,125 Speaker 1: he's kind of like he's more of like a spiritual guy, 489 00:28:12,165 --> 00:28:13,885 Speaker 1: so it makes sense that maybe he got his Terot 490 00:28:13,885 --> 00:28:17,525 Speaker 1: card spread on a somewhat regular basis. But he did 491 00:28:17,605 --> 00:28:22,125 Speaker 1: this the tin card pull and the first card was 492 00:28:22,165 --> 00:28:26,405 Speaker 1: the Blasted Tower, which represents kind of like a downfall 493 00:28:26,645 --> 00:28:30,805 Speaker 1: or falling out of something or someone. Again, that's how 494 00:28:30,845 --> 00:28:33,925 Speaker 1: you interpret it, right, so your reader kind of like 495 00:28:33,965 --> 00:28:36,605 Speaker 1: help guides you through it, kind of asks you questions 496 00:28:36,645 --> 00:28:41,525 Speaker 1: to reveal whatever it is. Anyway, second card was the 497 00:28:41,525 --> 00:28:47,405 Speaker 1: Emperor card, which is like boldness or aggressive domination is 498 00:28:47,645 --> 00:28:51,445 Speaker 1: how it was interpreted in this reading. And then the 499 00:28:51,645 --> 00:28:54,285 Speaker 1: third card, Oh, and mind you, all of these are 500 00:28:54,365 --> 00:28:57,885 Speaker 1: major cards, so these are like major events in this 501 00:28:57,925 --> 00:29:01,645 Speaker 1: person's life. And then the third card that was pulled 502 00:29:01,805 --> 00:29:06,085 Speaker 1: was the Devil card. So this guy, his name is Starr. 503 00:29:06,605 --> 00:29:09,365 Speaker 1: Immediately he sees this card and just starts crying and 504 00:29:09,445 --> 00:29:13,565 Speaker 1: he just like breaks down. So, which, even if you 505 00:29:13,645 --> 00:29:15,685 Speaker 1: like you don't know anything about terror cards, the devil 506 00:29:15,685 --> 00:29:18,245 Speaker 1: card can't be good, right, And then a couple of 507 00:29:18,245 --> 00:29:20,845 Speaker 1: the other cards that were pulled just to give you 508 00:29:20,925 --> 00:29:23,405 Speaker 1: kind of a sense of what's maybe going on is 509 00:29:23,485 --> 00:29:27,365 Speaker 1: justice and the justice card and the death card. So 510 00:29:27,525 --> 00:29:32,365 Speaker 1: his Braiden sees how upset he is and she says, quote, look, 511 00:29:32,885 --> 00:29:35,965 Speaker 1: I can see here this is not good. You need 512 00:29:36,005 --> 00:29:39,685 Speaker 1: to tell me everything. Let's talk, That's what she says. 513 00:29:39,725 --> 00:29:45,285 Speaker 1: And I just think that is just great. That's so badass. 514 00:29:45,485 --> 00:29:48,285 Speaker 1: Like this woman seems like such a badass to me. 515 00:29:48,805 --> 00:29:52,365 Speaker 1: So anyway, so Starr says, So he responds and he's like, 516 00:29:52,445 --> 00:29:55,965 Speaker 1: it's terrible. I killed him. So he just start up 517 00:29:56,405 --> 00:29:59,725 Speaker 1: admits that he had killed someone and apparently he killed 518 00:29:59,765 --> 00:30:02,325 Speaker 1: his roommate and had been living with the body for 519 00:30:02,445 --> 00:30:08,365 Speaker 1: ten days. Oh my, like he killed him and then 520 00:30:08,405 --> 00:30:09,645 Speaker 1: just like he didn't know what to do, so he 521 00:30:09,725 --> 00:30:12,725 Speaker 1: left him, went about his day for ten days, went 522 00:30:12,805 --> 00:30:16,965 Speaker 1: to go get his tarot cards read, and like all 523 00:30:17,005 --> 00:30:19,725 Speaker 1: of these terrible cards pull up, and she's like, you, 524 00:30:19,965 --> 00:30:22,445 Speaker 1: something's going on, Like what So I was looking for guidance. 525 00:30:22,485 --> 00:30:27,205 Speaker 1: He was like, what did I do with his body? Exactly? So, 526 00:30:27,405 --> 00:30:31,885 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, tips from the tarot reader of how 527 00:30:31,925 --> 00:30:34,645 Speaker 1: to dispose of a body. Yeah, when really should just 528 00:30:34,645 --> 00:30:38,525 Speaker 1: listen to Cadaver House. Let me just kids to our podcast. 529 00:30:39,245 --> 00:30:43,485 Speaker 1: Um So anyway, miss Braydon, she's like, okay, um, I 530 00:30:43,565 --> 00:30:46,405 Speaker 1: have to call the police now. So she steps out. 531 00:30:46,405 --> 00:30:48,205 Speaker 1: She told him, Yeah, she was like, I've got to 532 00:30:48,205 --> 00:30:49,925 Speaker 1: call the police, Like you know that, what did he say? 533 00:30:50,765 --> 00:30:52,165 Speaker 1: I would not have told I would have said, hey, 534 00:30:52,165 --> 00:30:53,925 Speaker 1: I need to go to the bathroom. I know that 535 00:30:54,205 --> 00:30:56,765 Speaker 1: was my thing. But she was like apparently really diplomatic 536 00:30:56,805 --> 00:30:59,405 Speaker 1: about it. And she steps out, gives them a little 537 00:30:59,485 --> 00:31:05,685 Speaker 1: rang ding, and they are like, this isn't an emergency, 538 00:31:05,725 --> 00:31:10,365 Speaker 1: like call the non aliency line, and so she's like, no, no, 539 00:31:10,445 --> 00:31:13,485 Speaker 1: like this is this is serious. I mean and this 540 00:31:13,565 --> 00:31:15,765 Speaker 1: was also like a bank holiday as May Day, and 541 00:31:15,845 --> 00:31:17,765 Speaker 1: so they thought it was like the cops like thought 542 00:31:17,765 --> 00:31:20,085 Speaker 1: it was a prank. So they were just kind of 543 00:31:20,125 --> 00:31:24,485 Speaker 1: like not taking it very seriously. So it took them 544 00:31:24,525 --> 00:31:27,845 Speaker 1: like fifty five minutes to get there, and she's like 545 00:31:28,005 --> 00:31:32,445 Speaker 1: interviewing the murderer. Yeah, she literally even joked she was 546 00:31:32,485 --> 00:31:34,925 Speaker 1: like it would have been more efficient to go walk outside, 547 00:31:34,965 --> 00:31:38,605 Speaker 1: call them, tell them I litterd. She was like, they 548 00:31:38,605 --> 00:31:41,405 Speaker 1: would have jumped all over me. She sounds incredible. I 549 00:31:41,525 --> 00:31:43,805 Speaker 1: love so a star, just like chilling, being like, yeah, 550 00:31:43,845 --> 00:31:46,325 Speaker 1: you're right, call the police on me. Yeah, I think 551 00:31:46,365 --> 00:31:48,925 Speaker 1: so he was kind of like I He's like, I 552 00:31:49,085 --> 00:31:51,805 Speaker 1: know I did a bad thing. And so she's like, 553 00:31:52,645 --> 00:31:55,325 Speaker 1: let me go get you some water. Let's just talk 554 00:31:55,365 --> 00:31:58,325 Speaker 1: it out. See you know, how are you doing? Like 555 00:31:58,405 --> 00:32:01,485 Speaker 1: are you okay? Like trying to she just was doing 556 00:32:01,525 --> 00:32:05,085 Speaker 1: everything to stall and keep him there. So here is 557 00:32:05,085 --> 00:32:07,325 Speaker 1: where she's just kind of like she learns a little 558 00:32:07,325 --> 00:32:10,565 Speaker 1: bit more about the deceased, and she kind of like 559 00:32:10,605 --> 00:32:13,485 Speaker 1: stuck to that topic of like who this person was 560 00:32:14,205 --> 00:32:18,565 Speaker 1: alive rather than like the actual death part. She didn't 561 00:32:18,565 --> 00:32:20,565 Speaker 1: really want to know any gory details. And I cannot 562 00:32:20,565 --> 00:32:22,285 Speaker 1: say that I would want to know that either if 563 00:32:22,325 --> 00:32:26,365 Speaker 1: I'm stalling sitting with the murderer exactly. So Starr had 564 00:32:26,405 --> 00:32:29,285 Speaker 1: moved in with this seventy year old mister Marney. They 565 00:32:29,285 --> 00:32:32,805 Speaker 1: met at a spiritual church and they literally just moved 566 00:32:32,805 --> 00:32:34,925 Speaker 1: in just so that they could have company. They were 567 00:32:34,965 --> 00:32:37,205 Speaker 1: both kind of like lonely and so they just wanted 568 00:32:37,205 --> 00:32:39,685 Speaker 1: to have somebody to live with and somebody to like 569 00:32:39,765 --> 00:32:43,765 Speaker 1: hang out with. Okay, so this is really interesting. According 570 00:32:43,805 --> 00:32:47,045 Speaker 1: to Star, they were just roommates, but they did share 571 00:32:47,045 --> 00:32:50,885 Speaker 1: a bed. And then Starr also said that mister Marney, 572 00:32:51,045 --> 00:32:54,485 Speaker 1: who the victim, had sexually assaulted him a few times, 573 00:32:55,125 --> 00:32:57,365 Speaker 1: which you know, as a woman, I could I could 574 00:32:57,445 --> 00:33:00,765 Speaker 1: understand that anger, I guess, but like, you know, not 575 00:33:00,845 --> 00:33:04,525 Speaker 1: to murder, but like also don't assault people. It just 576 00:33:04,565 --> 00:33:06,565 Speaker 1: gets like really much and like the fact that it's 577 00:33:06,605 --> 00:33:09,205 Speaker 1: two men is just like I don't know, it's just 578 00:33:09,245 --> 00:33:12,845 Speaker 1: like really interesting to me. I wonder how. I wonder 579 00:33:12,845 --> 00:33:16,565 Speaker 1: how the cops took that information and if it was 580 00:33:16,685 --> 00:33:19,325 Speaker 1: used in his case or not, Like could he have 581 00:33:19,445 --> 00:33:22,765 Speaker 1: argued as self defense? I mean, that's exactly where my 582 00:33:22,805 --> 00:33:27,445 Speaker 1: head went. I didn't really find anything about the case specifics, 583 00:33:28,365 --> 00:33:32,445 Speaker 1: but it was just kind of like he didn't I guess, 584 00:33:32,485 --> 00:33:34,245 Speaker 1: he didn't call the police about it, and there was 585 00:33:34,645 --> 00:33:37,125 Speaker 1: not necessarily any evidence of it. Maybe I don't know. 586 00:33:37,725 --> 00:33:40,285 Speaker 1: It's so hard because if you're a lonely person and 587 00:33:40,485 --> 00:33:43,325 Speaker 1: you move in, you know, with another lonely person, and 588 00:33:43,405 --> 00:33:46,805 Speaker 1: that person takes advantage of you and if you're someone 589 00:33:46,845 --> 00:33:50,045 Speaker 1: who like doesn't trust cops, which like many times it's 590 00:33:50,045 --> 00:33:52,645 Speaker 1: already been proven that cops do not help at all 591 00:33:52,725 --> 00:33:54,885 Speaker 1: in like sexual assault cases. But you don't have anywhere 592 00:33:54,885 --> 00:33:56,405 Speaker 1: else to go, and this is your new home, like 593 00:33:58,205 --> 00:34:00,765 Speaker 1: maybe taken like an hour to get there, so do 594 00:34:00,885 --> 00:34:06,925 Speaker 1: something about it. His mental state must not have been good, yeah, 595 00:34:07,045 --> 00:34:09,805 Speaker 1: obviously not. Like apparently he was just in the kitchen 596 00:34:10,045 --> 00:34:13,365 Speaker 1: making a sandwich and mister Marney comes up and is 597 00:34:13,405 --> 00:34:16,805 Speaker 1: like confronts him about I think, like I don't know 598 00:34:16,845 --> 00:34:19,485 Speaker 1: if it was that he wanted a relationship or what, 599 00:34:20,045 --> 00:34:22,685 Speaker 1: but they I guess have some sort of confrontation and 600 00:34:22,765 --> 00:34:26,925 Speaker 1: he pretty deliberately stabs him anyway, So the cops eventually 601 00:34:27,045 --> 00:34:29,965 Speaker 1: arrive the rest star go to the apartment and they're like, 602 00:34:29,965 --> 00:34:34,005 Speaker 1: oh my god, there's a body here and there. They 603 00:34:34,005 --> 00:34:36,245 Speaker 1: were literally like shocked and they were like, you're right, 604 00:34:36,925 --> 00:34:38,965 Speaker 1: but they were just like did not take her seriously 605 00:34:39,005 --> 00:34:43,565 Speaker 1: at all. So Miss Braydon went to the trial. That's 606 00:34:43,565 --> 00:34:47,045 Speaker 1: where she learned kind of the more specifics freaked her 607 00:34:47,045 --> 00:34:51,525 Speaker 1: out a little bit more. But yes, so mister Martney 608 00:34:52,125 --> 00:34:56,765 Speaker 1: died from stab wounds in puncturing his organs, like he 609 00:34:56,805 --> 00:34:59,165 Speaker 1: got stabbed in the side and it punctured an organ. 610 00:35:00,685 --> 00:35:07,045 Speaker 1: And so that's the story about this weird tarot card 611 00:35:07,045 --> 00:35:10,285 Speaker 1: reading that had gone wrong. I feel like if we're 612 00:35:10,365 --> 00:35:13,325 Speaker 1: gone extremely right, yeah, or it depends on how you'll 613 00:35:13,325 --> 00:35:18,525 Speaker 1: extremely right is the answer. Um, that's a really terrible story. 614 00:35:18,565 --> 00:35:23,525 Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Taylor. Oh yeah, this is all about 615 00:35:23,605 --> 00:35:26,565 Speaker 1: terrible stories. When we come back, we're going to chat 616 00:35:26,605 --> 00:35:32,805 Speaker 1: about other moments that psychics and tarot readers were used 617 00:35:32,885 --> 00:35:37,805 Speaker 1: in more secret government official ways. So see you after 618 00:35:37,845 --> 00:35:44,045 Speaker 1: the break. Welcome back, Welcome back. So Taylor just told 619 00:35:44,125 --> 00:35:48,445 Speaker 1: us a story about a tarot reader who unknowingly uncovered 620 00:35:48,445 --> 00:35:52,645 Speaker 1: and murder, which is bananas, And we were all talking 621 00:35:52,925 --> 00:35:57,965 Speaker 1: and we just decided to go in on psychics and 622 00:35:58,285 --> 00:36:01,925 Speaker 1: taro readers and that sort of crew who have been 623 00:36:02,125 --> 00:36:09,245 Speaker 1: used in government investigations. That's the word. That's the word. 624 00:36:10,085 --> 00:36:11,965 Speaker 1: When I first started researching, I was like, oh, there 625 00:36:12,045 --> 00:36:15,485 Speaker 1: can't be that many, Like what tell me? Why? Oh 626 00:36:15,525 --> 00:36:19,525 Speaker 1: my gosh, I there was a wealth of information. Yeah, 627 00:36:19,685 --> 00:36:23,765 Speaker 1: I was so wrong. There are you know, Russian esp experiments, 628 00:36:23,885 --> 00:36:28,205 Speaker 1: Project stargate Um, the documents from the now declassified Mars 629 00:36:28,245 --> 00:36:32,565 Speaker 1: Exploration program, the eight Space theory. There is so much 630 00:36:32,605 --> 00:36:35,485 Speaker 1: to detangle, So I'm only going to focus on one 631 00:36:35,645 --> 00:36:38,525 Speaker 1: operation today and then we can get into more in 632 00:36:38,525 --> 00:36:40,765 Speaker 1: the future, or you can research at your own leisure. 633 00:36:41,525 --> 00:36:46,045 Speaker 1: Operation grill Flame, which is a terrible name. Way grill flame, No, 634 00:36:46,165 --> 00:36:47,925 Speaker 1: I love that. What are you talking about? Like a 635 00:36:49,805 --> 00:36:52,405 Speaker 1: literally yeah, absolutely, it sounds like a guy fiery TV 636 00:36:52,445 --> 00:36:55,365 Speaker 1: show slash a dairy queen special, Like what girl flame. 637 00:36:55,445 --> 00:36:59,605 Speaker 1: I can't. So in nineteen seventy nine, we're going to 638 00:36:59,645 --> 00:37:03,245 Speaker 1: the seventies, A lot of crazy shit was happening, and 639 00:37:03,485 --> 00:37:07,685 Speaker 1: we are in the middle of the Iranian Revolution. So 640 00:37:08,565 --> 00:37:13,045 Speaker 1: three thousand militarized Iranian college students entered the US embassy 641 00:37:13,085 --> 00:37:18,285 Speaker 1: in Tehran and took over sixty six Americans that were 642 00:37:18,325 --> 00:37:21,725 Speaker 1: living in the embassy compound um hostage. Yeah, they were 643 00:37:21,725 --> 00:37:25,885 Speaker 1: just like, hey, you're saying nice, it's not nice. Um. 644 00:37:25,925 --> 00:37:28,925 Speaker 1: Obviously this was a big problem. And so President Carter, 645 00:37:32,005 --> 00:37:36,445 Speaker 1: so President Carter, our Georgia boy and his aids. They 646 00:37:36,485 --> 00:37:42,045 Speaker 1: tried everything, um, diplomacy, international, to shake sanctions. I don't 647 00:37:42,045 --> 00:37:44,405 Speaker 1: know how, I don't know how to speak embargoes. Um. 648 00:37:44,445 --> 00:37:47,885 Speaker 1: They tried freezing Iranian assets that were held in US Banks, 649 00:37:47,925 --> 00:37:52,685 Speaker 1: which is insane. Nothing worked basically, So then he ended 650 00:37:52,725 --> 00:37:58,205 Speaker 1: up authorizing this operation called Operation eagle Claw, which failed. 651 00:37:58,565 --> 00:38:04,445 Speaker 1: Poop um, nothing was working spoiler alergies. Yeah, so nothing 652 00:38:04,525 --> 00:38:08,125 Speaker 1: was working. Operation eagle Claw, which is such an American 653 00:38:08,245 --> 00:38:12,365 Speaker 1: word by the way, failed. What do we do? Well, 654 00:38:12,645 --> 00:38:15,925 Speaker 1: you turn to the people who can see in the beyond. 655 00:38:16,445 --> 00:38:19,565 Speaker 1: Operation Girl Flame had started prior to the hostage crisis. 656 00:38:19,765 --> 00:38:22,485 Speaker 1: Under this operation, what the CIA did is they basically 657 00:38:22,485 --> 00:38:27,125 Speaker 1: focused on remote viewing, which is the parallel and normal 658 00:38:27,165 --> 00:38:30,365 Speaker 1: ability to receive information from a place or a person 659 00:38:30,765 --> 00:38:34,205 Speaker 1: without physically being there. So that's like, that's like, Okay, 660 00:38:34,285 --> 00:38:38,125 Speaker 1: someone's interviewing me and they're like, and I'm not with 661 00:38:38,165 --> 00:38:40,765 Speaker 1: you Taylor, for example, and they're like, think of Taylor, 662 00:38:40,925 --> 00:38:42,685 Speaker 1: you know, just like focus on Taylor. Focus on Taylor, 663 00:38:42,965 --> 00:38:45,885 Speaker 1: and then whatever comes to me, and then like suddenly, 664 00:38:45,885 --> 00:38:48,005 Speaker 1: I'll be able to see where you are, or I'll 665 00:38:48,045 --> 00:38:50,125 Speaker 1: be able to like visit you where you are, or 666 00:38:50,165 --> 00:38:52,525 Speaker 1: I'll be able to tell of your emotional state or 667 00:38:52,565 --> 00:38:55,805 Speaker 1: health or whatever. So that's essentially what remote viewing is. 668 00:38:56,165 --> 00:38:59,925 Speaker 1: I see, yes, will you remotely check on me a lot? 669 00:39:00,845 --> 00:39:05,205 Speaker 1: I do it every night? Good doing my remote view 670 00:39:06,365 --> 00:39:10,645 Speaker 1: sounds kind of creepy, sounds really creepy. Please don't do that. 671 00:39:11,165 --> 00:39:15,245 Speaker 1: So the CIA and the Department of Defense used this 672 00:39:15,485 --> 00:39:19,405 Speaker 1: for military purposes and they started this program to train 673 00:39:20,125 --> 00:39:26,125 Speaker 1: psychics into remote viewing for their own schemes or operations 674 00:39:26,205 --> 00:39:31,325 Speaker 1: or whatever schemes. Schemes, CIA schemes. So it had some 675 00:39:31,685 --> 00:39:34,525 Speaker 1: varied results. But the reason why President Carter had some 676 00:39:34,565 --> 00:39:38,405 Speaker 1: hope in it is because in nineteen seventy six, a 677 00:39:38,525 --> 00:39:42,645 Speaker 1: Soviet plane had crashed somewhere in Central Africa and the 678 00:39:42,765 --> 00:39:47,645 Speaker 1: CIA just could not find it through normal traditional intelligence. 679 00:39:48,005 --> 00:39:50,645 Speaker 1: They were desperate, and what do we do in desperate times? 680 00:39:50,685 --> 00:39:57,085 Speaker 1: Guys turned to the unknown? Yes, so they reached out 681 00:39:57,125 --> 00:40:00,205 Speaker 1: to a remote viewing facility that the CIA had set up, 682 00:40:00,245 --> 00:40:04,045 Speaker 1: and the Secretary, Rosemary Smith, who was a psychic, managed 683 00:40:04,085 --> 00:40:06,645 Speaker 1: to find it. She drew for the teams, and the 684 00:40:06,845 --> 00:40:10,565 Speaker 1: CIA sent out a paramilitary team to track the place 685 00:40:10,645 --> 00:40:13,285 Speaker 1: and sure enough it was where she said it was, 686 00:40:13,365 --> 00:40:18,365 Speaker 1: which is pretty bananas. That's crazy, Mary damn right. The 687 00:40:18,405 --> 00:40:22,885 Speaker 1: president at the time that the hostage crisis was happening, Carter, 688 00:40:23,085 --> 00:40:26,125 Speaker 1: he was like, Okay, maybe the psychics can give us 689 00:40:26,165 --> 00:40:29,405 Speaker 1: some info on the hostages. So the CIA had a 690 00:40:29,405 --> 00:40:33,805 Speaker 1: group of six trained psychics to stay in this house 691 00:40:33,845 --> 00:40:37,805 Speaker 1: in Fort Mead, Maryland, and they would conduct what they 692 00:40:37,885 --> 00:40:41,805 Speaker 1: called viewing sessions there. They were like thirty minute sessions 693 00:40:41,805 --> 00:40:44,045 Speaker 1: and they did over two hundred of these, And so 694 00:40:44,045 --> 00:40:47,085 Speaker 1: they'd ask the psychics questions like are the hostages in 695 00:40:47,125 --> 00:40:49,525 Speaker 1: good health or where exactly are they located? And this 696 00:40:49,565 --> 00:40:52,365 Speaker 1: happened for a while just because the hostages ended up 697 00:40:52,405 --> 00:40:54,765 Speaker 1: being taken for four hundred and forty four days, so 698 00:40:54,805 --> 00:40:57,565 Speaker 1: they needed to know this information right, and they figured, 699 00:40:57,645 --> 00:41:01,005 Speaker 1: let's use the psychics if that would be exhausting as 700 00:41:01,045 --> 00:41:04,925 Speaker 1: a psychic to do that right, so tiring. Now, there 701 00:41:04,965 --> 00:41:08,885 Speaker 1: was a lot of emotional and mental labor for the CIA. Yeah, 702 00:41:08,925 --> 00:41:13,405 Speaker 1: And there was one occasion where like, for example, a 703 00:41:13,485 --> 00:41:17,605 Speaker 1: psychic warned his interviewer that he saw a man being 704 00:41:17,645 --> 00:41:21,605 Speaker 1: carried in a gurney and he was not okay physically, 705 00:41:21,685 --> 00:41:24,885 Speaker 1: like he needed medical attention, and that this man would 706 00:41:24,925 --> 00:41:28,965 Speaker 1: be released imminently. And this is so bananas to me. 707 00:41:29,405 --> 00:41:32,925 Speaker 1: It happened. So Richard Queen, he was a hostage and 708 00:41:33,005 --> 00:41:35,645 Speaker 1: he had multiple sclerosis, and he was on day two 709 00:41:35,725 --> 00:41:38,845 Speaker 1: hundred of being a hostage, and one of the psychics 710 00:41:39,685 --> 00:41:41,725 Speaker 1: literally said that was the man that was going to 711 00:41:41,765 --> 00:41:44,725 Speaker 1: be carried in a gurney, and the psychic literally said, 712 00:41:45,165 --> 00:41:47,285 Speaker 1: someone will be released. His name will be on a 713 00:41:47,325 --> 00:41:51,805 Speaker 1: deck of cards. Queen. That's bananas. Whoa y'all make sure 714 00:41:51,885 --> 00:41:55,965 Speaker 1: to have the proper medical care available, And then Richard 715 00:41:56,005 --> 00:41:58,805 Speaker 1: Queen was released exactly as the psychic predicted. And because 716 00:41:58,885 --> 00:42:01,525 Speaker 1: the CIA listened to the psychic, they had the medical 717 00:42:01,645 --> 00:42:04,245 Speaker 1: attention that he needed and if he had not had 718 00:42:04,245 --> 00:42:07,325 Speaker 1: that medical attention, he would have died. That's crazy, wow, 719 00:42:07,525 --> 00:42:11,165 Speaker 1: isn't the s bananas? There was another moment during the 720 00:42:11,205 --> 00:42:15,765 Speaker 1: hostage crisis where they were planning a rescue mission and 721 00:42:16,125 --> 00:42:19,365 Speaker 1: they were consulting with the psychics before doing the rescue mission, 722 00:42:19,445 --> 00:42:22,965 Speaker 1: and the way that the compound was like positioned, there 723 00:42:23,005 --> 00:42:25,685 Speaker 1: was a courtyard in the middle where the rescue mission 724 00:42:25,725 --> 00:42:29,245 Speaker 1: was planning on landing a helicopter, and the psychic said 725 00:42:29,245 --> 00:42:31,965 Speaker 1: that they saw the courtyard and that they saw cobwebs 726 00:42:32,165 --> 00:42:35,445 Speaker 1: all over the top of the courtyard and that they 727 00:42:35,485 --> 00:42:38,245 Speaker 1: shouldn't go on along with the rescue mission. And they 728 00:42:38,325 --> 00:42:41,325 Speaker 1: later found out that those cobwebs that the psychics saw 729 00:42:41,485 --> 00:42:46,485 Speaker 1: were actually bomb triggering wires that were all over the 730 00:42:46,525 --> 00:42:49,285 Speaker 1: top of the courtyard, and so if anything would have 731 00:42:49,325 --> 00:42:53,085 Speaker 1: landed on there, especially a helicopter, it would have detonated 732 00:42:53,125 --> 00:42:56,725 Speaker 1: all the bombs and would have killed everyone. Dang, it's 733 00:42:56,765 --> 00:42:59,525 Speaker 1: not bananas. So but the craziest thing is that you 734 00:42:59,565 --> 00:43:01,525 Speaker 1: hear stories like this, right, and these are only the 735 00:43:01,565 --> 00:43:09,045 Speaker 1: declassified stories, and then over all, like according to the CIA, 736 00:43:09,325 --> 00:43:15,645 Speaker 1: it wasn't really successful. Like the Girl Flame operation, they 737 00:43:15,685 --> 00:43:19,445 Speaker 1: received around two hundred reports and according to the CIA, 738 00:43:19,685 --> 00:43:22,245 Speaker 1: only seven of them were correct, and then fifty nine 739 00:43:22,285 --> 00:43:25,165 Speaker 1: of the reports contained helpful information, but it wasn't like 740 00:43:25,485 --> 00:43:29,365 Speaker 1: totally accurate, and so it's a very divisive topic on 741 00:43:29,405 --> 00:43:32,725 Speaker 1: whether these people actually helped or not. One of the 742 00:43:32,765 --> 00:43:36,725 Speaker 1: military train psychics said that what the CIA has declassified 743 00:43:36,805 --> 00:43:39,365 Speaker 1: isn't even like half of the of what they did 744 00:43:40,045 --> 00:43:42,525 Speaker 1: via the operation. That they just didn't want to share 745 00:43:42,525 --> 00:43:50,085 Speaker 1: it because paranormal science is not really taken seriously. That's 746 00:43:50,085 --> 00:43:52,805 Speaker 1: not where I want my tax dollars to go. I mean, yeah, no, 747 00:43:52,925 --> 00:43:55,685 Speaker 1: that's that's what people think, right. So the operation actually 748 00:43:55,725 --> 00:43:57,605 Speaker 1: kept going for a while Girl Flame, and then the 749 00:43:57,645 --> 00:44:00,525 Speaker 1: operation was dismantled in nineteen ninety five. I think the 750 00:44:00,565 --> 00:44:03,445 Speaker 1: Washington Post got a hold of like what the CIA 751 00:44:03,525 --> 00:44:06,165 Speaker 1: was doing with their tax dollars of course, and release 752 00:44:06,245 --> 00:44:08,205 Speaker 1: like a big thing, and then it just became like 753 00:44:08,245 --> 00:44:10,085 Speaker 1: a whole thing and they had to stop doing it. 754 00:44:10,925 --> 00:44:14,605 Speaker 1: That's like the That's one of the many CIA stories. 755 00:44:14,645 --> 00:44:16,925 Speaker 1: And so many of the psychics that worked on that 756 00:44:17,405 --> 00:44:21,445 Speaker 1: team still do this work like separately, like independently and 757 00:44:21,685 --> 00:44:27,685 Speaker 1: remote viewing research is still going on within government funded operations. 758 00:44:27,925 --> 00:44:31,205 Speaker 1: I think the most recent one is through not NASA, 759 00:44:31,405 --> 00:44:38,205 Speaker 1: the water guys waters the Navy what are they called 760 00:44:38,245 --> 00:44:41,205 Speaker 1: the Navy? Through the Navy. Yeah, there are there are 761 00:44:41,245 --> 00:44:46,365 Speaker 1: some research projects going on there. So it's not fully away, 762 00:44:46,525 --> 00:44:48,205 Speaker 1: but I do think that, like you know, if you 763 00:44:48,325 --> 00:44:51,285 Speaker 1: told the American public, hey, you know a lot of 764 00:44:51,325 --> 00:44:54,725 Speaker 1: your tax dollars are going into psychic research. Actually all 765 00:44:54,765 --> 00:44:58,805 Speaker 1: of them are. Well in cadiver Gals, we're sharing all 766 00:44:58,845 --> 00:45:04,925 Speaker 1: of the government secrets, so watch out for bendis and psychics. Well, 767 00:45:05,125 --> 00:45:07,565 Speaker 1: thanks how much for listening and we will see you 768 00:45:07,645 --> 00:45:24,725 Speaker 1: next time on cadaver Gals Gal. Cadaver Gals is a 769 00:45:24,725 --> 00:45:28,165 Speaker 1: production of School of Humans and iHeartRadio. It is hosted 770 00:45:28,245 --> 00:45:32,245 Speaker 1: produced Mixed Research ET cetera by Gabbi Watts, Nika and 771 00:45:32,445 --> 00:45:35,285 Speaker 1: Taylor Church, and you can follow us on Instagram and 772 00:45:35,285 --> 00:45:37,765 Speaker 1: Twitter at Cadaver Gals. See you next week.