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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace in the Last Days, the

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Speaker 1: armorer for the movie Rust starring Alec Baldwin is found

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Speaker 1: guilty of homicide and the shooting death of a young

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Speaker 1: wife and mom cinematographer Helena Hutchins. Is Alec Baldwin. Next,

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thanks for being

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Speaker 1: with us here at Crime Stories and on Serious Sex

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Speaker 1: sem one eleven Hannah Goutera's read found guilty of homicide

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Speaker 1: and the shooting death of the Rust cinematographer Helena Hutchins.

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Speaker 1: Gutera's read shows very little emotion, if any, when the

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Speaker 1: verdict was read. Now is Alec Baldwin, the movie and

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Speaker 1: TV star. Next, He's set to go on trial in

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Speaker 1: the same courthouse for manslaughter. That's right, the armorer. That

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Speaker 1: is movie talk for the person in charge of all

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Speaker 1: the guns and explosives use on a movie set. The

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Speaker 1: armorer for the Alec Baldwin movie Rust guilty in the

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Speaker 1: shooting death of Helena Hutchins. The jury determined Gutera's red

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Speaker 1: negligently allowed a live bullet in the gun on the

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Speaker 1: set of the western Baldwin used to shoot dead Helena Hutchins.

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Speaker 1: It just took two hours of deliberations at the courthouse

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Speaker 1: in Santa Fe, New Mexico, for a jury to fine

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Speaker 1: read guilty on manslaughter. They quitted her on charge of

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Speaker 1: tampering with evidence. Now, Guta's red is the daughter of

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Speaker 1: a very well respected industry armorer, thell Reed, and she's

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Speaker 1: facing about two years in jail eighteen months to be exact.

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Speaker 1: She showed no emotion, but one family member did break

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Speaker 1: down in the courtroom. That family member sitting behind Reid.

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Speaker 1: The judge Mary Sumner remanded that means scent Gata's read

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Speaker 1: in custody, telling her the reason is because you're now convicted.

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Speaker 1: It's criminal negligence. It's true, but still a death. Does

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Speaker 1: the verdict against Hannah Gata's read spell trouble for Alec

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Speaker 1: Baldwin When he goes on trial in July in the

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Speaker 1: same courthouse for manslaughter. He faces jail time as well.

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Speaker 1: I found guilty. What do we know?

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Speaker 2: The Sheriff's office there has just confirmed it was Baldwin

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Speaker 2: who fired the prop gun that killed a forty two

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Speaker 2: year old female director of stratography, Helena Hutchins. The film's director,

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Speaker 2: Juel Susa, was also hurt. This incident happened on the

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Speaker 2: side of the Western Rust.

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Speaker 1: You were just hearing our friend Christine John's with CBS

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Speaker 1: what really happened. According to reports, the assistant yelled out

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Speaker 1: cold gun just before the shooting, which means the gun

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Speaker 1: was safe, that it was loaded with a blank. So

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Speaker 1: how do we have a woman, dad, another film person

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Speaker 1: injured with me and all Star panel to make sense

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Speaker 1: of it all? If we can? With me? Dominate Romano

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Speaker 1: lawyer joining us out of New York at Romano Law

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Speaker 1: dot Com is specialty entertainment law, and I can tell

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Speaker 1: you if somebody's going to need a lawyer. Doctor Sherry

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Speaker 1: Schortz forensic psychologists joining us. Karen L. Smith, forensic expert,

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Speaker 1: host of Shattered Soul's podcast at Beerbonesforensics dot com. Paul

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Speaker 1: Zike joining us special guest, former police commander and author

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Speaker 1: of Stop Him From Killing Them on Amazon, and he

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Speaker 1: has lots of experience using firearms with blanks during live

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Speaker 1: action movie scenes like Terminator Salvation. Doctor Michelle du Pre

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Speaker 1: forensic pathologists, former medical examiner, author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide,

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Speaker 1: and a former police detective. But first to Alexis Terreschuk

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Speaker 1: Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter joining us from Hollywood.

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Speaker 1: Alexis is what is getting folded into the story, right

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Speaker 1: or wrong? Is Alec Baldwin's history, his reputation for let

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Speaker 1: me just say hot headedness to put it euphemistically. If

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Speaker 1: he thought it was a blank and it should have

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Speaker 1: been a blank, then history aside it was an accident.

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Speaker 1: But how can it really be an accident when somebody

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Speaker 1: loaded this prop gun with real bullets? Just start at

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Speaker 1: the beginning.

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Speaker 3: They were on a set in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

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Speaker 3: It's a Western style movie. So they were sitting in

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Speaker 3: a church at an old church scene, and Alex Baldwin

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Speaker 3: was sitting in one of the pews and he was

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Speaker 3: practicing what's called a cross draw. And so that would

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Speaker 3: be where the person say, take your left hand and

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Speaker 3: grabs the gun out of the holster on the opposite hip,

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Speaker 3: pulls it across to fire. He was practicing this move

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Speaker 3: standing the cinematographer, which is the person that makes the

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Speaker 3: movie beautiful. This is the person that the director that

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Speaker 3: films the scene. She was standing in front of him

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Speaker 3: with the assistant director Stumbard, with the director standing right

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Speaker 3: behind her. He was looking over her shoulder to see

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Speaker 3: what it would look like when Alex pulled the gun out.

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Speaker 3: He pulls it out of the side, points it at

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Speaker 3: her to show them, pulls the trigger, and it fires

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Speaker 3: a live round into her. Hits her in the stomach

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Speaker 3: and actually I believe goes through her and grazes the

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Speaker 3: director sitting standing right behind her.

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Speaker 1: Hush is pronounced Dad at an Albuquerque hospital after being

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Speaker 1: rushed to the emergency room. You know what I always

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Speaker 1: love of playing nine one one calls for a jury

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Speaker 1: because it takes you back to what's really happening. Not

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Speaker 1: a description, not someone recounting what happened, but you're hearing

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Speaker 1: what really happened. Take a listen to the beginning of

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Speaker 1: that nine to one one call.

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Speaker 4: On the location of your emergency pointed and that we

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Speaker 4: need and at a Bonanza Creek grants right now. We

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Speaker 4: got to people shot on a mo.

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Speaker 5: Said someone was shot.

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Speaker 4: Two people accidental gun shot on movie steps and wondered

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Speaker 4: often with medical who are you calling?

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Speaker 6: Where are the road.

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Speaker 4: Emergency?

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Speaker 7: Bonanza people accidentally.

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Speaker 5: Shot on a movie.

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Speaker 4: Step by top gun. We need help the immediate, like Fananza

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Speaker 4: free grant, come on.

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Speaker 5: Your name, Let Mitchell.

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Speaker 3: That Mitchell wants.

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Speaker 4: The one where you're calling from five up, don't hang up?

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Speaker 4: Okay one seconds for somebody else is calling for better.

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Speaker 4: Everybody should be need some help us director in our

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Speaker 4: cameraman camera woman.

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Speaker 1: Now you hear repeatedly the word accident accidentally throughout that.

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Speaker 1: But is it an accident? Very often when you have,

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Speaker 1: for instance, a d UI crash, people go, well, it

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Speaker 1: was an accident. But was it because the driver chooses

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Speaker 1: to go to a bar to order drinks, to drink,

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Speaker 1: to become legally intoxicated, to then get the car, key,

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Speaker 1: walk to the car, get in the car, crank up,

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Speaker 1: reverse and drive out onto the roads. That sounds pretty deliberate.

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Speaker 1: So is it an accident? Is it gross negligence? Well,

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Speaker 1: take a listen to more of that nine to one

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Speaker 1: one call.

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Speaker 5: So was it loaded with a real bullet?

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Speaker 4: Or I cannot shot you that? Okay, we have two

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Speaker 4: injuries from the movie gun Shock.

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Speaker 5: Okay, we're getting.

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Speaker 8: Out there already.

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Speaker 5: Just down upone with me.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I did see that yelled at me at lunch.

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Speaker 4: Could ask him about re vision. You can and yell

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Speaker 4: at me he's a succested gun See responsible, I would

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Speaker 4: have to.

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Speaker 3: Answer how many?

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Speaker 4: No, No, no, I'm a super hard people were injured,

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Speaker 4: true that I know of. I was hearing we were

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Speaker 4: rehearsing and it went off and I ran out. We

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Speaker 4: all ran out. There were but doubles over the id

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Speaker 4: and the camera woman and the director and the directors

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Speaker 4: were clearing the road. Can you come back. We're back

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Speaker 4: on the web. We're back in the town to call

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Speaker 4: the way back in the western town.

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Speaker 5: Is there any serious bleeding? I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I ran out of the building, but I still have

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Speaker 4: to go through VESE. Okay, are they completely alert?

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Speaker 1: I'm here A lot of discussion in the background. You

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Speaker 1: hear this speaker talking to somebody else about someone yelling

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Speaker 1: at her and lunch about script revision, and she says

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Speaker 1: she's supposed to check the gun. He's responsible for what happened. No, No,

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Speaker 1: I'm a script supervisor, so I don't know a lot

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Speaker 1: about movie sets. I can tell you more about a

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Speaker 1: murder trial, but I know this, A script supervisor should

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Speaker 1: not be checking dangerous weapons crime stories. With Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: In the Last Days, the armorer for the Alec Baldwin

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Speaker 1: movie Rust is found guilty of homicide by a jury,

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Speaker 1: will the next shoe to drop be the conviction of

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Speaker 1: movie star Alec Baldwin. Hannah Gata's Read's defense at trial

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Speaker 1: was basically to blame everybody else but herself, especially Alec Baldwin.

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Speaker 1: Reid's lawyer Jason Bowles kept repeating over and over that Baldwin,

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Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin was the quote big boss on the set

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Speaker 1: that nobody would stand up to, even though he rushed

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Speaker 1: people and ignored safety checks because Rust, on which he

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Speaker 1: was a producer, had a tight budget. The jury heard

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Speaker 1: from the defense Baldwin commissioned the director SUSA to write

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Speaker 1: the script, that Baldwin owns the rights to the script,

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Speaker 1: that he was the lead actor on the movie and

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Speaker 1: was also a producer. Now, the defense lawyer Jason Bowles

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Speaker 1: called his client, Hannah Reid a quote scapegoat for wider

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Speaker 1: failings that led in a Mexico safety regulator to issue

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Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty six thousand dollars fine on the

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Speaker 1: producers for serious safety failings. She's a scapegoat. Well, a

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Speaker 1: jury disagreed. What do we know? Paul Zike joining us

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Speaker 1: special guest, former police commander and author of Stop Him

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Speaker 1: From Killing Them? He's with the Screen Actors Guild and

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Speaker 1: he has experienced using firearms with blanks during live action

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Speaker 1: movie scenes. I could go on, but I think that

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Speaker 1: sums it up for today. Paul Zake, thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us. What went wrong? Obviously there was a

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Speaker 1: live bullet and what should have been a proper god,

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Speaker 1: but what happened, Nancy?

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Speaker 8: The only explanation for this is a systemic breakdown in

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Speaker 8: systems that are in place to ensure that live ammunition

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Speaker 8: is not present on the set.

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Speaker 1: Okay, now that was a lot of words, Paul's I

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Speaker 1: think you're saying somebody didn't do their job.

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Speaker 8: Well, absolutely, somebody did not do their job and catastrophically

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Speaker 8: did not do that. There's no reason whatsoever for live

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Speaker 8: ammunition to be on the set of any set. Because

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Speaker 8: these weapons are capable of firing live rounds. They're not

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Speaker 8: really prop guns. They're deadly weapons being used as props.

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Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, right there, I want to make that distinction.

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Speaker 1: You're absolutely right when look, I'm a trial lawyer, I'm

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Speaker 1: a legal expert. You're the expert in this world. When

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Speaker 1: I say prop gun, I mean they're using it as

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Speaker 1: a prop. But you're making a very fine, subtle but

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Speaker 1: important distinction. A prop gun is a fake gun. I

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Speaker 1: don't think it even can shoot? Is that right?

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Speaker 8: Exactly? If you're talking about say it prop knife, correct,

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Speaker 8: It has a flat edge on it. It's incapable of

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Speaker 8: cutting you. These are things that are not deemed to

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Speaker 8: be dangerous. A prop gun is simply as utilized on

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Speaker 8: set our weapons that are capable of firing live ammunition

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Speaker 8: and therefore accidentally live ammunition could be mixed with blank rounds.

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Speaker 8: You know, given time, this is just a disaster waiting

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Speaker 8: to happen. They need to move to true guns that

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Speaker 8: are incapable of chambering live ammunition. Until that happens, this

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Speaker 8: has a very strong chance of repeating itself.

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Speaker 1: Well, okay, tell me this. Paul's II guys with me.

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Speaker 8: Paul z II.

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Speaker 1: He is a former police commander. He's an author screen

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Speaker 1: actors gil and has experience using blanks during live action

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Speaker 1: movie scenes where we all think they're shooting real guns.

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Speaker 1: If you suspend your disbelief in movies like His Terminator Salvation,

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Speaker 1: those aren't real guns. So why are they using a

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Speaker 1: real gun? To start with? Paul Zeike and I mean

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Speaker 1: to me having been forced to handle so many guns

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Speaker 1: and so many homicides, what moron wouldn't make sure that

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Speaker 1: there were blanks in the gun.

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Speaker 8: It's hard to imagine that during the loading of the

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Speaker 8: weapon that that was not viewed very strictly as the

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Speaker 8: weapon is loaded. And also there's a chain of custody

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Speaker 8: issue here on the scene of Terminator Salvation. As we

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Speaker 8: would go out and we would you conduct the battle scene,

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Speaker 8: if you will, in the middle of the night. We

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Speaker 8: would be handed directly from the armor fully automatic weapons

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Speaker 8: and magazines, fully loaded with blanks, and we would head

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Speaker 8: straight out to where the scene was to be shot,

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Speaker 8: and then we would engage in the scene, you know,

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Speaker 8: five to ten minutes later, hand the weapons straight back

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Speaker 8: to the armor, all the ammunition back to the armor,

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Speaker 8: all the magazines back to the armor, and we would

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Speaker 8: not be able to touch those weapons again until the

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Speaker 8: next scene. So from a chain of custody standpoint, I

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Speaker 8: went directly from the armor directly to my hand, my

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Speaker 8: the co actor's hands that were with me, and that

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Speaker 8: was maintained very strictly.

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Speaker 1: Hold on, Paul, I've got to soak in everything you're saying,

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Speaker 1: because Dominic romano a high profile lawyer joining us out

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Speaker 1: of New York's specialty entertainment law. And that's why Dominic's

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Speaker 1: joining us today. Dominick, hold on. When you heard Paul's

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Speaker 1: like say, chain of custody, I immediately thought of a

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Speaker 1: serial murderer that I prosecuted on one murder. We could

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Speaker 1: get them on one and there ended up. I would say,

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Speaker 1: three weeks before trial. I was just looking at the

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Speaker 1: evidence and I noticed that the bag that contained the

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Speaker 1: evidence wasn't signed. It had never been signed by the

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Speaker 1: homicide cop that picked it up from It was DNA

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Speaker 1: in there's blood from where it had been taken and

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Speaker 1: carried to the crime lab. It wasn't written on the back.

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Speaker 1: Did anybody ten forer with it? No, he just didn't

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Speaker 1: put his initials. I'm like, oh, dear Lord in Heaven,

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Speaker 1: the chain is broken. This could be attacked at trial.

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Speaker 1: I had to go back out to the jail, stand

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Speaker 1: there and look at this killer while he pulled his

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Speaker 1: blood again. Then I carried it with my investigator myself

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Speaker 1: back to the crime lab to have it retested. Praise

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Speaker 1: the Lord in Heaven. It was his DNA. Long story short,

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Speaker 1: that's chain of custody. Your case can be lost. You

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Speaker 1: can lose a serial killer because somebody didn't keep the

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Speaker 1: chain to preserve the integrity of the trial. That's what

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Speaker 1: I thought when Paul Zike said chain of custody. But

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Speaker 1: did you also hear him say, Dominic Romano, he handed

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Speaker 1: it back to the It sounded like he was saying

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Speaker 1: armor or armory. But I've been reading about this case.

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Speaker 1: It's an arm er, armor er who is person in

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Speaker 1: charge of all the weapons. Hey, somebody is either going

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Speaker 1: to jail. Are they going to lose their house over

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Speaker 1: a lawsuit? Domino Romano.

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Speaker 9: I think you're right, Nancy, and I think Paul is

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Speaker 9: absolutely right. Look in twenty twenty one, no one should

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Speaker 9: ever be killed by a gun on a film set. Period.

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Speaker 9: Those are the words of Brandon Lee's sister. Brandon Lee

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Speaker 9: shot on a film set in the early nineteen nineties.

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Speaker 9: They should not happen. There are established protocols, chains of command.

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Speaker 9: Nancy said, someone would either going to jail or lose

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Speaker 9: their house.

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Speaker 8: It's highly likely here.

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Speaker 9: I mean, there appears to be some serious gross negligence

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Speaker 9: on that set to allow that to have that. That

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Speaker 9: is the appearance, and I don't know what evidence can

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Speaker 9: come out to rebut that.

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Speaker 1: Presumption alive round in well, as paul's Ikus corrected me,

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Speaker 1: it's not a prop gun. They were using real guns. Hey,

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Speaker 1: let me ask you a question. Explain the difference and

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Speaker 1: what a blank looks like as opposed to a live

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Speaker 1: round a bullet. We're saying live rounds, we're talking about

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Speaker 1: a bullet. What's the difference. Can't you just look at

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Speaker 1: them and you can see the difference in.

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Speaker 8: Most cases, absolutely, it's very clear. You can see the difference.

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Speaker 8: In some types of calibers, say two two three if

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Speaker 8: you will, that's an AR fifteen would shoot. The blanks

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Speaker 8: are kind of crimped at the end to almost look

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Speaker 8: like there's a bullet on the end of them. But

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Speaker 8: any sort of trained professional whatsoever, when you're handling a blank,

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Speaker 8: you know it's a blank.

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Speaker 9: When it's a bullet, you know it's a bullet.

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Speaker 8: The blank does not have a lead projectile or a

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Speaker 8: steel projectile at the end of the round, So at

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Speaker 8: the end it's either flat or it's slightly crimped to

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Speaker 8: hold in the gunpowder, which you know, the firearm usually

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Speaker 8: needs the gunpowder to correctly function the weapon cycle, the

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Speaker 8: weapon and.

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Speaker 9: It's one of the reasons why blanks are used.

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Speaker 1: Prosecutors call the armorer for the Alec Baldwin movie Hanicata's

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Speaker 1: read quote sloppy in handling guns and amo, even staying

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Speaker 1: in the opening statement in that prosecutors Jason Lewis, Good

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Speaker 1: Lawyer says she quote routinely left guns and ammo lying

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Speaker 1: around the set unattended, that the gun safe and ammo

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Speaker 1: cart were constantly disorganized. He also said the prospect of

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Speaker 1: live ammunition landing up on a film set is incomprehensible.

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Speaker 1: It should never happen, and he's right. Why do a

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Speaker 1: bunch of movie stars need to have guns with live

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Speaker 1: ammo in them? The jury was even shown photos taken

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Speaker 1: by a crime scene investigator that shows the chaotic way

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Speaker 1: in which the ammunition and guns were stored all the

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Speaker 1: set of Rust. They didn't even have the guns locked

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Speaker 1: away as is standard practices. Images photos trial shows a

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Speaker 1: gun which could have fired live rounds just sitting on

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Speaker 1: top of the cart. Loose rounds of all sorts of

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Speaker 1: calibers were scattered everywhere, and Gatira's Reid actually kept them

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Speaker 1: in a fanny pack with a can of red bull. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's professional. We now know. Another live round was found

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Speaker 1: in a box of bullets, from which Gatara's reid said

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Speaker 1: she got the AMMO to put in Baldwin's gun. Okay,

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Speaker 1: right there, and there's your guilty verdict. Gatira's reed is

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Speaker 1: stating she got the AMMO, which contained live rounds, to

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Speaker 1: put in Baldwin's gun. Hello, now, even though that round

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Speaker 1: is visibly different to the fake bullets, and even had

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Speaker 1: a bright silver primer on the back, that was something

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Speaker 1: the others didn't have. In one damning moment, a trial

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Speaker 1: corporal Alexandra Handcock from Santa Fe County shri ask Goodtara's

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Speaker 1: reed if the silver primer on that live bullet didn't

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Speaker 1: stick out when she loaded the gun. Good Tarra's reid

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Speaker 1: responds no. The corporal then goes to say, you didn't

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Speaker 1: notice the rest of them were not the same color.

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Speaker 1: She says, no, I would not want her in charge

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Speaker 1: of ammunition, and I want to follow up with Alexis

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Speaker 1: Tereschuk on the Alec Baldwin set of rust. There apparently

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Speaker 1: were problems with working conditions. A group of the crew

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Speaker 1: had walked out, I think the night before the claiming

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Speaker 1: that they had bad hotels, they were an hour away

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Speaker 1: from a hotel or motel, and if they worked late

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Speaker 1: into the night, they have to drive through I guess

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Speaker 1: the desert, and a lot of them were actually sleeping

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Speaker 1: in their cars overnight. That's just some of the complaints

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Speaker 1: I've heard. But what are the other complaints, if any,

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Speaker 1: on the Alec Baldwin movie set.

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Speaker 3: Well, there have been complaints that things were not safe. Quote,

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Speaker 3: but one of the person is being directly blamed for

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Speaker 3: a lot of the unsafe is when you were listening

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Speaker 3: to the nine one one call and you said you

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Speaker 3: heard the woman saying that he was yelling at me

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Speaker 3: things like that. This is the assistant director that they're

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Speaker 3: talking about. And this is the assistant director, David Halls,

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Speaker 3: who handed the gun to Baldwin and said this is

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Speaker 3: a cold gun.

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Speaker 5: So what the.

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Speaker 3: People on the set were saying is that Halls was

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Speaker 3: not a responsible person. He was very angry, he was

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Speaker 3: making the job very difficult for everybody to do, and

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Speaker 3: they didn't trust him.

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, you're saying David Halls was an assistant director. Yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: Well what about the honor. Isn't she the one responsible

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Speaker 1: for all the weapons and the blanks or the bullets.

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Speaker 1: Karen L. Smith, forensic expert, host of Shadowed Soul's podcast

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Speaker 1: at Beerbones for instance dot com way in.

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Speaker 10: Karensmith, well, we do a lot with forensics in physics.

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Speaker 10: When we do a reconstruction, we use of time and

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Speaker 10: sometimes that can be split seconds, and this includes trajectories

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Speaker 10: of projectiles, and this trajectory can generally be explained by

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Speaker 10: the reporting. Alec Baldwin was reported to be sitting at

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Speaker 10: a church pew to align a camera angle when the

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Speaker 10: gun was fired. Alena Hutchins then collapsed on the floor

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Speaker 10: and Joel Susa was struck in the clavicles. That's an

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Speaker 10: upward trajectory, which means both Hutchins and Susa were standing

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Speaker 10: up when the event occurred. The projectile that perforated Helena's

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Speaker 10: body and subsequently struck Joels.

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Speaker 1: Now, in order for that to.

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Speaker 10: Happen, the kinetic energy, which is energy as the result

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Speaker 10: of motion, would be very high. We're dealing with mass

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Speaker 10: or the amount of matter in an object and energy dispersion.

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Speaker 10: Guns carry a high volume of energy in a small space,

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Speaker 10: and that from my experience, it tells me that it

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Speaker 10: was something other than just the paper or plastic wadding

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Speaker 10: from a blank round. That needs to be confirmed by

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Speaker 10: the emmy and the investigators. But there are reports of

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Speaker 10: live ammunition bullets being on the bet and that particular

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Speaker 10: gun allegedly being used for target practice that morning.

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Speaker 1: A gun for the set being used as target practice.

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Speaker 1: Paul zeike that that shouldn't be that you've got crew

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Speaker 1: members out shooting bottles. I think that that's coming out

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Speaker 1: with live bullets and use that same gun for a

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Speaker 1: sane and a church full of people.

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Speaker 8: And Nancy, I just want to clarify the prior point,

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Speaker 8: so very simply, a blank is a is a shellcasing

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Speaker 8: with gunpowder in it with no bullet. A bullet is

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Speaker 8: the same exact thing with more gunpowder and a live

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Speaker 8: bullet at the end of it that is made to

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Speaker 8: travel through the barrel and exit the weapon. Back to

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Speaker 8: what you were saying, that's the cardinal rule that's been broken,

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Speaker 8: whether you're whether you're involved in police training or you're

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Speaker 8: involved in a movie set, keeping live ammunition away from

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Speaker 8: weapons that fire live ami indition and keeping weapons at

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Speaker 8: fire blanks away from those instances, and when you mix

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Speaker 8: those two together, the odds of somebody having a spare

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Speaker 8: live round in one of their pockets or you name

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Speaker 8: it is super high and saying it sounds very sloppy,

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Speaker 8: and it just just opens the door for terrible things

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Speaker 8: that happen. And that's where the systemic breakdown and that

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Speaker 8: controlled environment.

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Speaker 1: We'm jelling you, Paul Zike, You're right. Super sloppy is

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Speaker 1: one way to put it. Gross negligence or unintentional murder

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Speaker 1: is another way to put it. I think I hear

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Speaker 1: Dominic Ramano jumping in. Go ahead.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, basically it's a catastrophic miscalculation. I think two people

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Speaker 9: here should be folks. We should focus on one is

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Speaker 9: the armor? Right? This is only according to reports her

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Speaker 9: second movie with Cheers Read and the assistant director Dave

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Speaker 9: Haul's you mentioned before. According to reports, he was fired

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Speaker 9: from a twenty nineteen production of Freedom's Past members suffered

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Speaker 9: a my minor injury.

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Speaker 1: Whoa whit a minute? Why why white white You got

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Speaker 1: me drinking from the fire high hydrant, which is not

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Speaker 1: a bad thing. It's too much at once. Hold on,

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Speaker 1: why in the world would you have somebody that was

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Speaker 1: fired off another similar job handling your weapon? Okay, is

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Speaker 1: that what you just said, Dominic.

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Speaker 9: Okay, almost so almost. The armorer is twenty four years old,

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Speaker 9: the person handling the weapons. It's only her second film.

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Speaker 9: She was just in a podcast where she said, you know,

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Speaker 9: she's a bit nervous about her film, but it went well.

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Speaker 9: Her father is apparently a famous armor Okay, so we

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Speaker 9: have that an experienced armor. Number two, we have the

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Speaker 9: assistant director known as the AD Dave Holes. Apparently, according

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Speaker 9: to a report, he was fired from the twenty nineteen production.

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Speaker 9: The movie was freedom passed after crew members suffered guess

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00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 9: what a minor injury when a gun unexpectedly discharged.

435
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: M Dominic Ramano, there were similar transactions are jumping to mind.

436
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 1: I mean, if there is a trial, you know that

437
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 1: previous incident is going to come in. I mean, this

438
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: solidifies my thought that this is not an accident, because

439
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 1: an accident when you totally don't see it coming, it's

440
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: just like out of the blue. But if this guy,

441
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 1: if it's correct, the AD had a previous incident where

442
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,919
Speaker 1: somebody was shot on a set. Even if it was

443
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 1: a minor injury, then you should have seen. You either

444
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: new or should have known. Would you agree with that?

445
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: Dominic Romano there going to be some serious.

446
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 9: Questions to be asked, and there have to be answers.

447
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 9: And if we don't have good answers, someone is either

448
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 9: going to be involved in a very expensive lawsuit or

449
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 9: depending on what they knew and when they knew it

450
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 9: and how careless they were, probably facing some time. The

451
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,919
Speaker 9: other issue you alluded to earlier is, you know, cost cutting,

452
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 9: it's rampant in the industry right now, and the production

453
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 9: company's decision not to book the crew hotel rooms near

454
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 9: the actual set, but to have them travel an hour

455
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 9: in each direction to get to and from their accommodation,

456
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 9: to have long hours where people walked off the set

457
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 9: earlier that day in protest. So this is a combination

458
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 9: of what turned out to be a lethal combination at

459
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 9: catastrophic calculation on the part of the production company.

460
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 1: Well, you just said a mouthful, all in a good way.

461
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: Between the armorer being an experience, the ad having a

462
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: prior similar transaction, and budget cuts problems amongst the crew.

463
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut six that are from

464
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: our friends at News Nation.

465
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 6: Now let's start with the people responsible for handling a gun.

466
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 6: There are no ubiquitous rules across all film sets, but

467
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 6: generally there are some guidelines that they follow, and here

468
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 6: into a budget don't usually plays a big role. In

469
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 6: many sets, there are no fewer than three people responsible

470
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 6: for monitoring a weapon.

471
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 9: A prop master.

472
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 6: Who's in charge of all cross is often supported by

473
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 6: a safety officer and a stunt coordinator. And depending on

474
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 6: the state, you may also need to bring in an

475
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 6: armorer whose only job is handling weapons. An armorer is

476
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 6: required by New Mexico state law.

477
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: So the point is, just like Dominic Ramona was saying,

478
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: budget plays a big role, Well, you know what, you

479
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: can tell that to the victim and the victim's child

480
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: and husband. Prime Stories with Nancy Grace. After one guilty

481
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: verdict by a jury in the shooting death of cinematographer

482
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: Helena Hutchins, will the next you to drop be the

483
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: conviction of movie star Alec Baldwin now Guta's read at trial.

484
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: The jury was also shown behind the scenes videos from filming,

485
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: and it showed what firearms experts claim are gross breaches

486
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: of safety. One shows Guitarra's Reed holding a shotgun with

487
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: the muzzle face up, pointing straight at her own face.

488
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: Is she crazy? In another scene called on video, a

489
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 1: male actor points a gun at a twelve year old

490
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: boy who was part of the cast. Especially chilling now

491
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,479
Speaker 1: that we know there were live rounds on the set

492
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 1: out a twelve year old boy. What more do we know?

493
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: Doctor Michelle Duprex, forensic pathologists, former medical examiner, author of

494
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: Homicide Investigation Field Guide, and a former police detective. Doctor Duprix,

495
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: I'm sure you, like myself, have had to handle weapons

496
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: in front of jury's and I learned this from watching

497
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 1: a pro trycases. I would always pick the gun up,

498
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: holding it face down with a barrel pointing to the ground,

499
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: so the jury or anyone else would not be alarmed.

500
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: What you don't want to do is scare your jury.

501
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: I would walk in front of the jury holding the

502
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: weapon nose down, open the chamber, let them see me

503
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: check it, hold it up like I was examining it

504
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 1: through you know, my eye level, so they can see

505
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: that it was empty, and then shut it and then

506
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: give it to the witness without fail. Even if it

507
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 1: was a weapon that I knew was inoperable, that was

508
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: sp Why would that not occur on a movie set?

509
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: But describe how you're supposed to handle weapons.

510
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 5: Exactly answer, you described it perfectly. That is exactly what

511
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 5: you should do. And if you're giving a weapon to

512
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 5: someone else, normally you have the chamber open so that

513
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 5: they can also see, and then you both check it

514
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 5: and know that it's it's empty or that the blanks

515
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 5: are in it.

516
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: Tell me what you can discern about what Karen Smith,

517
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:16,719
Speaker 1: forensics expert, just told us about the injuries. What happened Nancy.

518
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 5: Even though these are quote prop guns or blanks, they

519
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 5: can still obviously do devastating damage the wadding or whatever

520
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 5: they are filled with, even in a blank. But this

521
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 5: was not a blank. This was an actual projectile. And

522
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 5: as we know, you mean.

523
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: A bullet speak English, a bullet.

524
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, this is a bullet. And the caliber of

525
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 5: that bullet of the gun is what is going to

526
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 5: determine how much damage is done. As she explained, the

527
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 5: higher the caliber, the more energy in that bullet, and

528
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 5: so the more damage done to the physical body. And

529
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 5: of course the location where that bullet enters the body

530
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 5: in this case was devastating.

531
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: You know, another issue to dot to Sherry. I've been

532
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: on a lot of TV sets, obviously in movie sets

533
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 1: for you know, cameos or some legal issue. And I

534
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 1: got to tell you, doctor Sherry Schwartz, a movie set

535
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: takes on a whole It's like you're in a different world.

536
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: Like when you go to the movies and you sit

537
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 1: down and it goes dark. Your mind takes you there

538
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: when you're on a movie set. I've never been on

539
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: a single movie set that went on time. You go

540
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: till one or two o'clock in the morning, it's pitch

541
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: dark outside. You keep going until you get the shot

542
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 1: or you finish the scene, or whatever it's called in

543
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 1: movie world. I think that there is a suspended fear

544
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: you think you're at a movie set, like when you

545
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: go to Disneyland or when you're on vacation on a

546
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: cruise ship. You suspend your normal thinking it doesn't seem

547
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: real and you're not thinking, wow, there's a gun I

548
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: could get shot because it's quote just a movie. It's

549
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 1: not real. How do we let me just say, suspend

550
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: our disbelief, suspend rational rules of functioning when you're on

551
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 1: a movie set or in a movie, you know, like

552
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:18,320
Speaker 1: in movies where there's some nut with a gun and

553
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 1: you hear a sound, but you don't think it's real

554
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: because you're in a movie. What happens in the human mind?

555
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 1: Doctor Sherry, Well, when.

556
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:30,839
Speaker 7: You don't think that something is actually real, then you

557
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 7: would not calculate accurately what the potential risks are, right,

558
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 7: And so there is this gun on the set, but

559
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 7: everybody thinks, oh, it's just make believe. We're setting this

560
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 7: up to film it. Nobody's actually going to get hurt.

561
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 7: And so what happens mentally is that you underestimate what

562
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 7: the potential risks are. And what happened here is an

563
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 7: egregious underestimation, right, So for the rest of us, it's

564
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 7: make believes. Maybe even for the actor. They know that

565
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 7: they're just playing a role, and everybody around them might

566
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 7: know they're playing a role. But there are people on

567
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 7: the set who are responsible for that gun and for

568
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 7: taking that proper care and knowing what the potential risks are.

569
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: Bet g You, Alexis Tereshia at Crime online dot Com

570
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 1: investigative reporter. You have heard dominant Romano. Paul's like, well,

571
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 1: everyone on the panel weighing in, but apparently there were

572
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 1: a lot of problems and a lot of disgruntled crew members.

573
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: I understand that one of the motels they had set

574
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: them up to stay overnight was at a place for

575
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 1: the homeless, and there were drug addicts there. They were

576
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: afraid to stay there. What was going on on the set.

577
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 3: It seems like what they were trying to do was

578
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 3: make this film as cheaply as possible. Understandable, but they

579
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 3: were putting people's lives at risk. It was fifty's hotels

580
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 3: were fifty miles away, so after working fourteen hour days,

581
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 3: the crew was having to drive over and hour to

582
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 3: get to their hotel. Then they would have to be

583
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 3: back within like six hours, so they would get almost

584
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 3: no sleep at off. But they were also saying that things.

585
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 5: Were just not safe.

586
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 3: There had been an incident a few days earlier that

587
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 3: one of the prop guns again prop done real gun

588
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 3: had been accidentally fired, and so the crew had been

589
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 3: complaining to the producer saying this is not a safe

590
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 3: working environment, and they walked off the set. And so

591
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 3: Hollywood is very much a union business, but the producers

592
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 3: hired non union people to replace them. These none union people, though,

593
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 3: are not the people. That's not the armor, and it's

594
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 3: not the assistant director.

595
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:41,839
Speaker 10: And everybody's been.

596
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 3: Talking there at a line of protocol. You have so

597
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 3: many steps in the line of defense, so that when

598
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 3: this gun got to Alex Baldwin, at least two other

599
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,240
Speaker 3: people were responsible for saying that it wasn't loaded.

600
00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 1: I mean, didn't somebody even scream out cold yes. I

601
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 1: mean they have to yell it out, you know what

602
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 1: you were just saying. I know so many times for

603
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 1: different shoots. I don't know who he is that carries

604
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 1: it comes over and they have to do it a

605
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: certain way. They have to say a certain thing, and

606
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 1: they say it really loudly. I don't know why, but

607
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's a reason for it, just like they

608
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:26,399
Speaker 1: would yell out cold gun and everybody would hear it.

609
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 1: But I guess they yelled it out without checking alexis.

610
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 3: And there are reports that yes there. So there were

611
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 3: three guns that were set up and they were put

612
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 3: on a table outside the church set. And this is

613
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 3: because of COVID nineteen protocols, so not a lot of

614
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 3: people are in the if it's an inclosed set, they're

615
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 3: not there three guns. So the assistant director picked it up,

616
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 3: is Dave Halls. As the other guest said, you don't

617
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 3: have a history of a lot of accidents on sets,

618
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 3: and handed it to Badlin and he is the one

619
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 3: that yelled out cold gun. There's no nobody has said

620
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 3: there's so many people have spoken to the police on

621
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 3: the set, so many of the other crew members, and

622
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 3: they said they didn't know whether it actually was empty

623
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 3: or not. And these guns were used at lunch. This

624
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:13,919
Speaker 3: is a post lunch break, so they broke for lunch

625
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 3: at twelve thirty. They come back after lunch. During that lunchtime,

626
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 3: there are reports that those crew members were using this

627
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 3: gun and other guns to shoot beer bottles out in

628
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 3: the desert area and using it as target practice. So

629
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 3: there could have been alive and there said there were

630
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 3: lots of live ammunition. Nobody was told they couldn't bring

631
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 3: live ammunition on set.

632
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: That's another thing that do you need you live round

633
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:38,280
Speaker 1: on set.

634
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:39,839
Speaker 3: That's a big problem here.

635
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 1: And I think I've seen is that Paul jump in.

636
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 8: I'd like to jump in there. It's it's simply a

637
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 8: breakdown of the security of the scene. The only people

638
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 8: there that our arms should be security personnel. And you know,

639
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 8: in my years, my decade of fighting to keep workplaces

640
00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 8: safe and to stop stalking offenders from killing victims, I

641
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 8: can tell you one thing and that is, nobody thinks

642
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 8: the unthinkable is going to happen. It's a matter of

643
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 8: just human thinking. They think that, well, that happened to

644
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 8: somebody else, that didn't happen to me. And because this

645
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,240
Speaker 8: is somewhat of a rare occurrence on a set, people

646
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 8: got laxed, They got lackadaisical about fundamental when it comes

647
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 8: to shooting a scene such as this. And just like

648
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 8: at any workplace, this is a workplace out in the

649
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 8: middle of the desert, just like it would be in

650
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 8: an office building, those protocols broke down, and people at work,

651
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 8: attempting to do the right thing for the right reasons,

652
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 8: had a catastrophic, devastating thing happen. Because we as human

653
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 8: beings think, well, if it hasn't happened, it won't happen.

654
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 8: And that's just not the reality of life when it

655
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:49,280
Speaker 8: comes to dangerous events.

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00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: A chaotic, shambolic movie set lies a wife and a

657
00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: mother dead. The movie armorer Hannigateer's read guilty on negligent

658
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 1: involuntary homicide. Is movie star Alec Baldwin the next to

659
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 1: go down? We wait as just as Unfalds Goodbye friend,