1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow 3 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie, 4 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 1: what is the last lucid dream that you had and 5 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: what happened to it? Because I know you're you're a 6 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: lucid dreamer of old. It was like this weird. I 7 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: don't know how to even explain it. But um, I 8 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: didn't expect that you were going to ask me this, 9 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: so I'm not completely prepared. You didn't think i'd ask 10 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: you about your lucid dreams, like my last my last one. Well, 11 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: if not the last one, what what's an example that 12 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: stands out in your mind? Okay, well, how about one 13 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 1: where I've talked about recurring dream of a dog mulling 14 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: my face while I can't move right, and so eventually 15 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: got to the point where I knew that I was 16 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 1: dreaming and I could tell myself like I'd have a 17 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: different solution every time it happens to make the dog 18 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: stop chewing the skin off my face. So sometimes I'd 19 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: have to hug the dog, like embrace it back, even 20 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,279 Speaker 1: though it was malling me and then it would shatter 21 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 1: into a thousand pieces, which is an excellent example because 22 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: because that example of a horrible dream flowing into a 23 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: lucid dream works nicely with some of the stuff we're 24 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: going to talk about here. Yeah. Yeah, And actually we've 25 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 1: had a lot of request for this topic and we 26 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: touched on it before. Yeah, we've certainly talked about in passing, 27 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: but it seems like when we covered virtual sex and 28 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: we talked about the possibility of linked dreaming, it came 29 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: up again. So Dan and Oakland, who also is as 30 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 1: an experienced to a lucid dreamer, he wrote us about it, 31 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: and Joffrey talked about how awful lucid dreaming might be, 32 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: especially if we linked our dreams. Yes, I believe we 33 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 1: read the ladder and I have dands that I'm gonna 34 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: read at the end of Yeah. Yeah, it should be 35 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: a nice insight into this. So anyway, we wanted to 36 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: talk about it in full for you guys. All right, Well, 37 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: the term lucid obviously lucid dreaming as a thing has 38 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: existed for a very long time, but the term the 39 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: dreaming days back to nineteen and you had Dutch psychiatrist 40 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 1: Fedric Wilhelm von Eden. He coined the term. He identified 41 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: nine different types of dreams, which I granted I don't 42 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: have to list all nine, but I'm going to because 43 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: they're pretty awesome. Well, and he spent sixteen years of 44 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: his life studying this and coming up with these categories. Yeah, 45 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: I mean, he's an amazing dude. So number one and 46 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 1: I like to think of these as kind of like 47 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: items at a Chinese restaurant or items at a fast 48 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: food restaurant where you could order them up and be 49 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: like like a number one with the side of four, 50 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: but number one initial dreams. These are the very beginnings 51 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: of sleep, when the body is in a normal, healthy 52 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: condition but very tired, and the dreams sort of flew 53 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: in right off the back. Second type pathological dreams, in 54 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: which fever, indigestion, or some poison plays a role. You know, 55 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: a b bit of undigested potato, that kind of thing, Okay, 56 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: too much pepperoni, right, or if you know, fever dreams 57 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: intense situations but it's due to something not being right. 58 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 1: Body number three ordinary dreaming, good old vanilla dream number four, 59 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: vivid dreaming. All right, it's rich, it's it's the kind 60 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: of thing you're talking about all week and boring your 61 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: significant other with like it's a car that does not 62 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: exist in nature and I cannot explain it. Yeah. Number 63 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: five the symbolic or mocking dream. Van Eden tells us 64 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: that this is the kind of dream where we get 65 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 1: this intense feeling that circumstances are being arranged or invented 66 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: by intelligent beings quote of a very low moral order. 67 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 1: And this also ties in erotic dreams. But there's this 68 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: sense that it's not just you say, like you were 69 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: encountering something else, like an external force, and that's the feeling. 70 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: He's not saying that you're actually encountering some sort of entity, 71 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: but that's the feeling that you get in the dream. Right. 72 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: Number six is the realm of dream sensations. All right, 73 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: there's no vision, there's no image, there's no event, there's 74 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: not even a word or a name, But you have 75 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: this long period of deep sleep with the mind is 76 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: continually occupied by one person, one place, one remarkable event, 77 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: or even one abstract thought. Have you ever had one 78 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: of these? This one is outside of my dream experience, 79 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: I think no, I don't think so. I dream a 80 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: lot about the material that we research, so sometimes there's 81 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: a concept thore, but not just ones with such singularity 82 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: on topic. Number seven is the lucid dream, which we 83 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: will of course discussed in more detail. Number eight, and 84 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: this is where we get around to the Malling Dog 85 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: is what he called the demon dream, and it's always 86 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 1: very near before or after a lucid dream in vad 87 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: Eden's experience, and it involves something demonic, a horrific attacker, 88 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,359 Speaker 1: and it's just really intense. So immediately I'm reminded of 89 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: your example of the Malling Dog, and Radio Lab recently 90 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: did an episode that dealt with lucid dreaming in which 91 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: an individual kept having a recurring dream in which someone 92 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: was at their door pounding on the door and that 93 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: they were going to come in and just attack them. 94 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,359 Speaker 1: And it was like this fierce, confrontational, violent dream and 95 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 1: he was able to eventually break through that into a 96 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: lucid dreaming experien arians. So those would both the examples 97 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: of that and number nine the final in this series 98 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: of dream categories that I needn gay. This is the 99 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: wrong waking up, and this occurs always near waking. We 100 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: have the sensation of waking up in our ordinary sleeping room, 101 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 1: and then we begin to realize that something isn't right, 102 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:20,799 Speaker 1: and there's like some sort of inexplainable movements strange noises, 103 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: and then we realized we're still asleep. Those are the 104 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: worst because you spend a lot of time thinking that 105 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 1: you're waking up and getting ready and preparing, and only 106 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: to realize that you're still sleeping. I remember having them 107 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: in high school junior high, where I was inevitably I 108 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 1: was staying up too late at night because you're in 109 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: high school junior high in your sleep patterns are weird. Yeah, 110 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: and and so I've been up way too late, and 111 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: then I'm having to get up way too early, and 112 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: I dream that I have risen, that I have showered, 113 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 1: that I'm dressed, and then yes, I have risen. And 114 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: then and then I realized, crap, I've I haven't even 115 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: waken up at all. I just did all that work 116 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: for nothing. Well see, yeah, it's exhausting work. The waking 117 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 1: dream is also something you see a lot in films, 118 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: especially since like John Carpenter used this several times, where 119 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: you know the character wakes up, do you think he's 120 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 1: woken up from a dream geotypically like a weird dream 121 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: or a nightmare is something crucible of the plot, and 122 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: then they look around, Oh, everything's normal, everything's normal. Oh 123 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: there's a zombie. And then they wake up for real, 124 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: and it's a great sort of wham wham, double pal 125 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 1: kind of cinematic fool hum here, distract him here and 126 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: really get him. It's kind of cheap too, but when 127 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: you used a great effect by a talented director like Carpenter, 128 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: it really packed the punch. It's a great narrative device. 129 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: So in literature as well, of those nine, have you 130 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 1: had all of those with the exception of maybe that 131 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 1: the dream sensations? Yes, I would say that, and I'm 132 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: sure everybody has experienced all those to some degree, right, 133 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: because this is pretty and I think most people usually 134 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: remember their dreams, and if you don't, later on in 135 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 1: the podcast, we'll talk a little bit more about how 136 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 1: you can have better recall of them. Yes, but let's 137 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,479 Speaker 1: talk about this lucid dreaming. Yes, this is the item 138 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: we're ordering here today, the number seven. That's right. This 139 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 1: is generally thought of as a dream where the dreamer 140 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 1: is a where that they're dreaming and being aware of 141 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 1: the dream, they are able to manipulate or outright control 142 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: the circumstances around them, and generally this involves flying or 143 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: just complete power over their surroundings. I have a friend Elena, 144 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: who took some classes and Lucid dreaming. I don't know 145 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: if they were physical classes or if she attended them 146 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: through dreams, or how exact they were. I think that's 147 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: something in New York. But she Lucid dreamed of workshop. Yeah, 148 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: but but her her lucidreams would be that she should 149 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: grow to an enormous size like Godzilla and start crushing buildings. 150 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: So she has a lot of unresolved issues. And I think, well, 151 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: and that's the beauty of a Lucid dream, right, I mean, 152 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: the sky is the limit. You can do anything that 153 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: you want. Um you can shrink yourself to you know, 154 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: nano size, or you can become magnificently large. And it's 155 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,679 Speaker 1: such a beautiful idea because it's through dreaming, through the 156 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: neural gear that we're born with, we're able to achieve 157 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: the ends of some of our most outlandish technological dreams, 158 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: like all these ideas of virtual worlds that we can 159 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: move around in sandbox worlds in the video game, that 160 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: we can control in an An immense amount of talent 161 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: and effort, in time and money goes into the creation 162 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: of these things, and he's going into the creation of 163 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: virtual reality technology in the future. But we already have 164 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: all of that deer in our head and the idea 165 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: that with a certain amount of training and a certain 166 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: amount of forethought and presentness, that we can achieve those 167 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: same ends. It's just really remarkable. Well, and here's the 168 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: deal to Bettan Buddhists have been hipped to this long 169 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 1: before Western civilization. Yes, they were looking inward far before 170 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: most of the rest of the world was really looking 171 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: that far into the human psyche and into the human mind. Yeah. 172 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: And while we may use lucid dreaming to fly or 173 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,839 Speaker 1: for erotic adventures, Tibetan Buddhists actually practice a kind of 174 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: lucid dreaming called dream yoga, and this is a way 175 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: of recognizing the world for what it is, free from illusion. 176 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: So they're using it in a more high minded way. 177 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: It's about making discoveries about the way you think, in 178 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: the obstacles your mind puts in in your way, and 179 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: achieving better clarity. The ultimate goal is a state of 180 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 1: meta lucidity, in which you wake up from reality. I 181 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: love that, yeah, And I also like the idea that 182 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: in the same way that you are in a lucid dream, 183 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: you are realizing, you know, all these rules and all 184 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 1: these things that seem like they matter so much in 185 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: this dream. These all the confines, howling dog or an 186 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: attack or at the door, all these things that are 187 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 1: pushing in on me. They're not real. And if I 188 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: just let them go, then I have this immense freedom 189 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: in my life. You can take that into the waking 190 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: world and say that if you were actually awake in 191 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: the waking world and you're hip to these forces that 192 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: are all around you, aspects of the mind, the ego, 193 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: and all these forces. And we've talked about so many 194 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:47,439 Speaker 1: of these things before, but all these forces that are 195 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 1: dictating the way that we feel the world around us 196 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 1: in a mental sense, if we are aware of those, 197 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: then we can have elucid experience of a different type 198 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: in the waking world, all right, Because the mind makes 199 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 1: these paper tiger ors whether or not you are awake 200 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: or asleep. Right, And to recognize that the mind is 201 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: creating so much of your reality, is that the endgame 202 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: here for for our friends, the Buddhists. But it's a 203 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: very interesting way to look at it. Okay, so let's 204 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 1: get down to some of the brass talks about how 205 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: we know it's real, because for a long time it 206 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: was kind of thought of as maybe sort of made 207 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: up or magic, you know, because it sounds like magic. 208 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: It is magical, and it's it's it's reality. And so 209 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: for a long time that the really serious scientific minded types, 210 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: if you brought up the idea of lucid dreaming and 211 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: controlling your dream they would be like, I don't know, 212 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: I think that maybe you're you're making that up. Yeah, 213 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: But although we have all long suspected that dreaming could 214 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: help us with these sort of breakthroughs, right, and that 215 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: there was a possibility that we could control our dreams, 216 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: were at the very least know that we were dreaming, right. 217 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: And then there of course individuals along the way who 218 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: were doing it. And so even if they experts were 219 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: telling them it wasn't happening, they had a pretty good 220 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: idea about what was going on in their head. Only 221 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 1: they are a way to test it, right, How could 222 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: I test this anecdotal evidence? Well, it happens that lucid 223 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: dreaming occurs during REM sleep, the fifth sleep stage, and 224 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: the body is basically paralyzed, which we know with the 225 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: exception of the eyelids. And this is kind of an 226 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: AHA moment for a psycho physiologist, Stephen Leberge who monitored 227 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: subjects with electro and Sophello Grahams e g s, which 228 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: map electrical brain activity as they slept, and in the experiment, 229 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: subjects used pre arranged eyelid movements to signal they were 230 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: lucid dreaming to Lebert's right. So he's looking at them, 231 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: he's monitoring them, and all of a sudden he sees 232 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:42,679 Speaker 1: their eyelids flutter. He then looks at the e g 233 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: s and he's able to confirm that they're actually in 234 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: that REM sleep and that this is all corroborating. So 235 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: that's one instance we have where we can see that 236 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: people are outwardly signaling that they're in REM sleep and 237 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 1: we can we can say, yes, you are. According to 238 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:00,079 Speaker 1: Scientific Americans John Horrigan, leber showed the activities such as 239 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: counting numbers or having sex evokes similar neural and physiological 240 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: responses in both the dreaming and waking states, and if 241 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: your dream self holds its breath, then your real self 242 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 1: does too. And moreover, events take about the same time 243 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: to unfold in lucid dreams as they wouldn't real life, 244 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: which is a little bit different than what we've thought before. 245 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: We've always thought about dreams being compressed. And then there's 246 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: also some interesting data from Dr Matthew Walker, who is 247 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,599 Speaker 1: the director of the Sleep Lab at Berkeley, and that 248 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: he found that the lateral prefrontal cortex, part of the 249 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: brain that deals with logic, may be responsible for a 250 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 1: lot of what's going on in lucid dreaming. So during 251 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:38,599 Speaker 1: rem sleep, this part of the brain is supposed to 252 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: be asleep or inactive, but it's possible that it wakes 253 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: up so that dreaming and logic are both working at 254 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: the same time, which would then enable the dreamer to 255 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: suddenly have the mental capacity to say, Hey, this is 256 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: a dream, and this is what I want to do 257 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: with that dream. Now. You and I are talking about 258 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: this briefly before, and I was sort of saying that 259 00:12:57,360 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: that is one of the things that can get in 260 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: the way when you lucid dream, the fact that you're 261 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: bringing logic into it. But you can always kind of 262 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: get over it, because you know you're dreaming. And this 263 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: is the way that I kind of square this idea 264 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: of your logic center coming online while you're dreaming. Is 265 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: that now your logic center is under a set of 266 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:19,959 Speaker 1: different constructs, I guess for the dream logic. So even 267 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: though what you're doing in a dream might seem absolutely 268 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: crazy or inconceivable, your logic recognizes you're in a dream 269 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: and allows it. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, yeah, 270 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: This is kind of a tangent. But there's a fantastic 271 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: short story by South American author You're a Lewis Borges 272 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: called The Circular Ruins or or perhaps it is in 273 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: the Circular Ruins, but keywords Circular Ruins, in which a man, 274 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:47,439 Speaker 1: a dreamer, begins to dream a living being. He dreams 275 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:50,439 Speaker 1: the dream child piece by piece and cell by cell 276 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 1: and until it eventually achieves reality. And I won't spoil everything, 277 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: but do check that out. It's a very short story, 278 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: but just very poetic and shock full of wonder if 279 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 1: someone who's definitely concerned with the borders of reality right 280 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,439 Speaker 1: and crossing those borders. This is really interesting to the 281 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: visual cortex and parts of the motor cortex and some 282 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 1: motion sensing areas deeper in the brain are really active 283 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:15,199 Speaker 1: during dreams. So this is why we have lots of 284 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: motion and visuals and not so much stuff that you 285 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: can feel in your dream. Some people may have had 286 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: that experience, but for the most part, we're much more 287 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: visual and motion oriented in dreams. Yeah, I can't remember 288 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: ever having smelt or eaten anything in a dream before. Yeah, 289 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: I can ever remember something like stunning in terms of 290 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: like a pungency of smell, or something that's always usually visual, 291 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: or some sort of action like flying. These are some 292 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: interesting looks into the brain here. I also wanted to 293 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: note that German researchers gave lucid dreamers specific instructions to 294 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: make a series of left and right hand movements separated 295 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: by a series of eye movements. Again that that eye 296 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: fluttering while asleep, and the researchers were able to perform 297 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: brain scans knowing what was going on in their heads. 298 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: The eye movements undertaken in dreams are known to show 299 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: up on electro oculogram, giving the researchers markers to know 300 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: what the dreamers were meant to be doing at that point. 301 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: So this is really interesting in the sense that you 302 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: can start to map out actions and dreams and begin 303 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: to see what people are doing. Now, this is like 304 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: pretty rudimentary, right, but can you imagine within ten years 305 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: being able to look at the brain and start to 306 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: figure out what specifically people are dreaming about, what sort 307 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: of stories that they're weaving. This was from Current Biology 308 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: and the name of that paper is dreamed movement elicits 309 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: activation in the sense of remorn or cortex. So you know, 310 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: just a little f y I in case you know, 311 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: in ten years you want to get your dreams mapped out. Well, 312 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and when we return, we'll 313 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: talk more about lucid dreamings and we'll also discuss some 314 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: of the ways that you might bring lucid dreaming into 315 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: your life. Alright, we're back, so lucid dreaming. You obviously 316 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 1: have done this before. I do not believe I've ever 317 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: lucid dreamed. I've had the odd flying dream, I've had 318 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: the odd attackers coming after me dream lots of what 319 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: I loosely called movie dreams were something amazing, and I 320 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: guess they're vivid dreams under the nine point scale that 321 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 1: we were discussing earlier, but very vivid dreams for something 322 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: really imaginative is happening. But I've never had a lucid 323 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: dreaming experience. Okay, So I will say that in the 324 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: last couple of years, I haven't had as many lucid dreams. 325 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: And I'll tell you why I haven't been getting as 326 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: much sleep. Get a little rug rat right three years old. 327 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: So there you go. One of the first things you 328 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: have to do is get enough sleep, and the reason 329 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: is because the more rem the better your chances of 330 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: lucid dreaming and recalling the dream. And we go into 331 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: RAM every ninety minutes throughout the night, but each RAM 332 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: period gets much longer and occupies a larger chunk of 333 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: that ninety minutes cycle each time. So if you're only 334 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: sleeping the first part of a normal eight hours of sleep, 335 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: you're getting very little of that REM sleep. So if 336 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: you wake up at three o'clock in the morning and 337 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 1: four o'clock in the morning, it's harder to get back 338 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: to sleep than chances are you're not gonna have that 339 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 1: good time REM sleep that will induce our help to 340 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,360 Speaker 1: induce a lucid dream I should also have in terms 341 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: of dreaming in general, some sleep ates will also affect 342 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: your propensity for dream remembering yeah or not remembering right. 343 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: That's usually the cache that you you have a fogg 344 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: you r recall if you're if you're taking stuff. But 345 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:29,920 Speaker 1: you can still try some of these things. You could 346 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: keep a dream diary that seems to be very helpful 347 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: for people. Um, you can set an intention which sounds 348 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 1: kind of yoga s but if you want to fly 349 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: in your dream, you could look at a picture of 350 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: a person flying right before you get to bed and 351 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: tell yourself, I would like to know that I'm dreaming 352 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: and I would like to fly in my dream. And 353 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,680 Speaker 1: that seems pretty simple, but it's you know, the brain, 354 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: as we know is, is really great about taking suggestions 355 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 1: and acting on them. There's something called the mild technique 356 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: that Leberge calls mnemonic induction of lucid dreams, and that 357 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: involves waking up an hour earlier than usual in the 358 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: morning and recalling your last dream and then going to 359 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: sleep again while thinking again setting an intention next time 360 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: I'm dreaming, I want to remember that I'm dreaming, and 361 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 1: I'm going to lucid dream. And also you should know 362 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: that lucia dreams occur most often in the morning. Just 363 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:21,880 Speaker 1: before awakening, which makes sense when we talk about those 364 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: longer rim periods and then go back to sleep again 365 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 1: with purpose. Well, yeah, I mean a lot of it 366 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: has to do with that waking period, just the millisecond 367 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: when you're waking up and you begin to have this feeling, 368 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: this really strong flooding of a dream right coming at you. 369 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:41,399 Speaker 1: Instead of saying, oh, I need to get up and 370 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 1: I need to get dressed and so on and so forth, 371 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: if you try to just really bask and whatever emotions 372 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,439 Speaker 1: that are evoked at that moment, chances are you going 373 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: to be able to engage your recall a lot better. 374 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: So how do you know when you are actually Luca dreaming? Well, 375 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: one method that I've read is just simply to look 376 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,439 Speaker 1: around you and start looking at a little more detail 377 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 1: about what's actually in this world, because that's one method 378 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 1: that is often used is the idea that let me 379 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: look around, let me see if I can realize this 380 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: is a dream, if I can look for something. And 381 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:11,719 Speaker 1: I've heard you need to go about this in your 382 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 1: daily life as well, like in your waking life. Make 383 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: a point of, say, looking at light switches and making 384 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: sure they're there and that they work. Probably look at 385 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,199 Speaker 1: text and see if it's readable. The text thing is 386 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 1: a big That's been a big clue for me, because 387 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:25,479 Speaker 1: a lot of times I'll be reading or I'll be 388 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: writing something and the text keeps moving, or I can 389 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: see one sentence and then it all falls away. You 390 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 1: look at it, it's text, and you look away, and 391 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,159 Speaker 1: you look back at it and it's something else to 392 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,479 Speaker 1: pict a graham or a smiley face or something. It's 393 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: not gonna hold. It's not gonna be the same thing, 394 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,199 Speaker 1: whereas in the waking world, I can look at this 395 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: and it's still say the same thing it said earlier. 396 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: Waking status confirmed right, or clocks they don't have scrambled 397 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 1: numbers right in reality. But if you're dreaming, you're trying 398 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: to get a beat on what time it is, a 399 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:54,679 Speaker 1: lot of times you'll see the same thing as the 400 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 1: text that the numbers run around. So there are definitely 401 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 1: hall marks of this happening in Lucid dreaming. Here's something 402 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 1: that's just totally random, but I thought it was interesting. 403 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 1: There is a theory of why there are so many 404 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: flying dreams, especially in Lucid dreaming. And there's a guy 405 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: named Alan Hobson he's a psychidras and dream researcher at Harvard, 406 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 1: and he says that flying is the brain trying to 407 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: reconcile the fact that we're under the illusion that we're 408 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: moving and yet the body is giving the brain data 409 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: that it's immobile, and so in flying, we're moving, that 410 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: our limbs aren't bending or moving. And I would be 411 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: curious to know from from listeners to if they've ever 412 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: had the flying dream and if they have like the 413 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: typical reports of your hands being outstretched like Superman, because 414 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,199 Speaker 1: that's that idea of like your stiff that you're not 415 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 1: really moving but you're flying. I definitely have that experience. 416 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 1: This was the summer that The Rocketeer came out. While 417 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: I don't think The Rocket Here is a movie that 418 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 1: I would necessarily seek out to watch again, at that 419 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,239 Speaker 1: point in my life, I was pretty obsessed with it. 420 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,439 Speaker 1: I like read the novel that was based on the screenplay, 421 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: and I had at least one dream air I was 422 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: the Rocketeer, or was in The Rocketeers get up flying 423 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 1: stiffly over like a coastal area and it was really 424 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: really beautiful. Okay, so you've had the stiffarmed dream. Yeah, 425 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: and it was definitely stiff. I wasn't just flopping around around. 426 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,360 Speaker 1: The other side of that is every vision that we have, 427 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: every fiction involving a flying character, they tend to be 428 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 1: kind of stiff. They're Superman or there's a rocket their 429 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: Commando Cody or some other character, and they're they're very 430 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: stiff with their rocket suit because nobody wants to watch 431 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: Superman just flop around in the air and looked like 432 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: he was just valet in the air. Well, beautiful. Well, 433 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 1: I'll tell you one example that comes and I didn't 434 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 1: have this growing up. In that movie that I mentioned before, 435 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 1: Hanuman versus seven Ultraman, the tie Ultraman movie in which 436 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: Hant m Han, the Hindu monkey god, shows up. He 437 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: flies through the air. Well, he flies through the air 438 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: very stiffly, but he flies through the air with a 439 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,679 Speaker 1: dance pose, a very artistic pose to him. Now, so 440 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 1: he doesn't he is stiff, and then he has no 441 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: motion other than he is flying through the air, but 442 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,959 Speaker 1: his body language is very fluid looking. I'm gonna challenge 443 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 1: myself to fly and do like the robot like ants moves. 444 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 1: Next time I'm lucid dreaming, I am going to Work 445 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: versus Ultraman the Seven Ultraman every night for a week 446 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: and see if I start dreaming like that movie, because 447 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: even if I don't fly, the results are gonna be amazing. 448 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 1: Speaking of another movie, Real Quick Waking Life. If you've 449 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: never seen this movie before, it's very interesting and actually 450 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: talks about a lot of these concepts, a lucid dreaming 451 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 1: and also what is reality and what is illusion? I 452 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: need to see it again because I think I fell 453 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:39,160 Speaker 1: asleep i saw It's a it's a talking movie, but 454 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: nonetheless very interesting. Alright, So let's talk about whether or 455 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: not we can harness lucid dreaming and dreaming in general 456 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: to help ourselves. And I'm thinking about nightmares PTSD, and it's, 457 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: you know, general problems that we have in life. Right 458 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: in the same way that you were able to defeat 459 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: that dog that was mulling your face, and in the 460 00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 1: same way that in that episode of Radio Lab that 461 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: the individual was able to eventually deal with that troublesome 462 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: nightmare that he kept having, that reoccurring nightmare in which 463 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: someone was at his door. It has been proposed that 464 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 1: by commanding the power of lucid dreams, chronic nightmare sufferers 465 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,199 Speaker 1: could actually deal with their problems. Yes, it's true. And 466 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,159 Speaker 1: I was actually thinking to you about Elias how we've 467 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 1: talked about him before, when we talked about real science 468 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: that came from dreams. And this was a guy who 469 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: figured out how to use a needle in a sewing 470 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 1: machine that would puncture the cloth. Right. He dreamed about 471 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 1: a tribe that was dancing around him holding spears, and 472 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:32,239 Speaker 1: the spears had holes near their tips, and boom, he 473 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 1: realized the solution to making that happen. So that's just 474 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: a good example, I think in general, of how your 475 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: mind can work on these problems. Did I tell you 476 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: about this? I um this. This came up of a 477 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: week of playing a lot of board and card games, 478 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: and I think I had recently seen an episode of 479 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 1: Mystery Science Theater that had some magic in it. But 480 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,919 Speaker 1: I dreamt of a card slash board game that didn't 481 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,919 Speaker 1: exist in real life, and I mean still doesn't. But 482 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: I woke up remembering the mechanics of the game and 483 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: how the game more or less work with some certain 484 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,360 Speaker 1: blank spots regarding the shoots and ladder. No, it wasn't 485 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: shoots and ladder, and I can't reveal it exactly how 486 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 1: it works, because maybe I'll do something with it at 487 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: some point. But it was one of those dreams where 488 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 1: I woke up and I'm like, wow, I have this idea. 489 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: And it was interesting for me because I get a 490 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: lot of sort of visual ideas, like there's a particular 491 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,199 Speaker 1: kind of monster that shows up in my dreams. I 492 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,199 Speaker 1: could write a story about that or something. This is 493 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 1: one of the few times where I had a dream 494 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 1: in which there was like a system in play, where 495 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 1: I woke up not as much inspired by just the 496 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 1: imagery and magic of the dream world, but there was 497 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: a more or less a concrete idea there. Yeah, And again, 498 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: the prefrontal cortex usually is it gets a little bit 499 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,200 Speaker 1: dim when you're dreaming, not LUSA dream, but just dreaming. 500 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,120 Speaker 1: And we've talked about this before with jazz musicians. We've 501 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,919 Speaker 1: seen this part of the brain kind of dial it 502 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,919 Speaker 1: down a little bit because again, your logic center sometimes 503 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: can impede creative thought. So it's really interesting that that 504 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 1: this is the realm that we can get in there 505 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: and there are no rules and you can start to 506 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: to work out. So lucians are really cool creative ideas 507 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: and board games that are not shooting. There are no 508 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: rules yet. But if tenure is in the future when 509 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: we can monitor dreams, who's to say, right, dream police? Okay, 510 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 1: so I'm going to talk about this article in Scientific 511 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,959 Speaker 1: American is called how Can You Control Your Dreams? And 512 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: according to Didre Barrett, she's the assistant clinical professor of 513 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 1: psychology at Harvard, something called image rehearsal is a way 514 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,719 Speaker 1: to overcome the nightmares as you talk about or PTSD events. 515 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: Therapist or researchers have the person work out in an 516 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 1: alternate scenario they want the dream to take, and they 517 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 1: ask them to close their eyes and they imagine this 518 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: and they generally talk them through a kind of really 519 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 1: vivid enactment of it so that they're they're starting to 520 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,360 Speaker 1: pin those details in the person's mind. And we've talked 521 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,159 Speaker 1: about this before with memory too, about really penning that 522 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,880 Speaker 1: information into memory palace, right the memory palace, and making 523 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 1: sure that that person is really attaching meaning to these objects. 524 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 1: So that's what these therapists are doing. And usually the 525 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,360 Speaker 1: person incorporates some degree of the rehearse scenario at bedtime 526 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,360 Speaker 1: or listens to a tape where the therapist or researcher 527 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,440 Speaker 1: is recounting the alternate scenario and they've had some really 528 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 1: good results with us cool. And then there are various 529 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: devices that have come along that may aid us in 530 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 1: lucid dreaming. Oh, yes, are you referring to the Liverages goggles. Yes, 531 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 1: the Nova Dreamer And this is an invention of the 532 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 1: Lucidity Institute. And it looks like a cross between like 533 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,719 Speaker 1: sleep mass and goggles. And the idea here is that 534 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: if you condition yourself that red light, flashing red light 535 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: means that you're having a dream, as opposed to oh, 536 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,479 Speaker 1: my goodness, something pulled over for speeding. If you can, 537 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: if you can reprogram your mind to think flashing red 538 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: lights mean hey, it's a dream. Start doing whatever you 539 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: want to do in the dream. Then you can wear 540 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 1: these goggles and they would be able to measure when 541 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,200 Speaker 1: you're experiencing rem sue and then flash in that light, 542 00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: and then you would be able to perceive that through 543 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,880 Speaker 1: your eyelids and you would know that that was your cue. Yeah, 544 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: that's your cue to start dreaming it up big time. Yeah. 545 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 1: Instead of having to look specifically for examples of say, 546 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 1: dream writing or or something else weird in the dream 547 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 1: that doesn't match up and would be your clue. This 548 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,640 Speaker 1: is like an outside force saying, hey, signal Red, You've 549 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,439 Speaker 1: got a lucid dream opportunity. Here, go for it. And 550 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 1: some of this starts to go into the territory of inception, right, 551 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 1: like planting dreams or planting these cues. Yeah. John Horgan 552 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 1: hated that movie, or at least he enjoyed it, but 553 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 1: he did not enjoy the science of it, which makes sense, right. 554 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 1: I mean, he's this tried and true science journalist and 555 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,400 Speaker 1: he found that the water should be murky and they 556 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,199 Speaker 1: are sometimes the pop points where but still I enjoyed it. 557 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 1: Here's something about that movie which I enjoyed as well. 558 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 1: When these characters are lucid dreaming, they create some of 559 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,919 Speaker 1: the most boring things I've ever seen in a cinematic 560 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: dream portrayal. At one level, I used to think, I 561 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: don't really care for this movie, because if they're lucid dreaming, 562 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: they should really be wowing. There was just a lot 563 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: of crazy stuff. But if you bringing your logic into play, 564 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 1: then I can see where that could potentially null the 565 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: powers of just pure imagination. What part was boring to 566 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 1: know that, like the big city they had, like the 567 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: city and it's a building. I don't want to get 568 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: into spoilers too much, but there's there's a scene where 569 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 1: there's like a big city around them, and it's just 570 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: kind of it's creative in its own sense, but it's 571 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: not I feel like I could dream a better dream city. 572 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: It's what well I know. But the thing is, the 573 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: whole point of that movie is you're stuck in whomever 574 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: streams that is right. Yeah, they were in their own 575 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: dream at this point. Yeah, but she was dreaming, and 576 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: the whole point where she was creating the architecture for 577 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: like a realistic architecture. Okay, into realistic architecture, my dream, 578 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: I can have realistic architecture. Because he was putting her 579 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: through the paces, wanting to see if Grasshopper had learned well, 580 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: because that part of the movie, you know, show me 581 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: what you have learned, Grasshopper. But that's not what Leonardo 582 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 1: Dicapito said at all, Just so everybody knows. Okay, So 583 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: there are limitations to this, right, You can't exactly just 584 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: jump into this. It's not just clicker heels three times 585 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: and you're gonna be an a lucid dream You've gotta 586 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,959 Speaker 1: really want it. Even with fancy gadgetry involved. There's not 587 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: just an on off switch or a magic pill you 588 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: can take. Though they have experience with the use of 589 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: Alzheimer's drugs that a cognitive processes and memory, so there 590 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: are some experiments involving the use of a pill. But 591 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: still all of these things still require the dreamer to 592 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 1: really want lucid dreaming to happen. Yeah, and I keep 593 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: thinking about this travel Lodge study that came out but 594 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 1: by the futurist Stean Pearson, who tried to imagine travel 595 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: lodge of the future and and all the technology that 596 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: we have at our disposal and what that might look 597 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 1: like his idea. And again, this is someone who is 598 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: um He's got a lot of information and experience under 599 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: his belt, so he's not just dreaming that's out of nothing, right, 600 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: And he's, as we discussed before, he's a great futurist. 601 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 1: And then he's taking all of this information and he's 602 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: extrapolating a future reality that is for the most part 603 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: unmoored from our attachment to the way things are today. Right, 604 00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 1: And he says that developments and fabric technology and synthetic 605 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: materials means sleepware of the future will feature electronically controllable 606 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: properties such as touch sensitivity, shape changing, thermal properties, and 607 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: light emission. So his idea is that sleepers could get 608 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: gently massaged in their sleep or uncomfortably groped by strange, 609 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: faithless demons. Right, and then you know, red lights beamed 610 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: into their eyes and then they have to start loose 611 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 1: dreaming boop. Right then, But there is this idea that 612 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: you could enhance your dreaming, that there may be some 613 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: point in the future where we can enter into this 614 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: state much more effectively and get groped. As you say, well, 615 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: it's it's interesting that we're talking about the future and 616 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: we're talking about the nine different types of dreams. It 617 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 1: was one of the books in the futuristic Altered Carbon 618 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: series that Richard K. Morgan did, where he has he 619 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: has a future in which individuals are able to move 620 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: their consciousness from body to body. You're only allowed to 621 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: have one body at a time, but it means that 622 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: one can practically forever if one can afford new bodies. 623 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: So you have individuals that don't have to deal with 624 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 1: much in the way of physical illness. You'll have individuals 625 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 1: who end up voluntarily catching the flu just for the 626 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: fever dreams or just you know, just for some of 627 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: the intense bodily experiences of the illness. I gonna say, 628 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 1: that's not that's not a dream that I would want 629 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: to inhabit. No, But I guess the thing is they're 630 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 1: so jaded. They've tried everything else, They've had everything else 631 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: in their multiple lives, so they're at the point where, well, 632 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 1: what's left for me? I guess fever dreams. That's extreme, man. 633 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 1: I gotta say, all of this information sort of points 634 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: back to this idea that we talked about this before. 635 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: How much of our time we've spend dreaming even while 636 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: we're awake. We've talked about daydreaming rights. By one account, 637 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,120 Speaker 1: at least half of our waking hours daydreaming, right, And 638 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: you can, you know, cultivate awareness on that level there too. 639 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 1: And I love the idea of thevet and Buddhists that 640 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: we were talking about to where let's not be afraid 641 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 1: then to take this concept into the waking world and 642 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: think long and hard about the various aspects of our 643 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: thought processes that are dictating the way we experience waking reality. 644 00:31:58,400 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: There's a great quote, and I may have read this 645 00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: one before, but it's it bears repeating from Grant Morrison, 646 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: and this is from the Invisible Volume one. He says, 647 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: your head's like mine, like all our heads, big enough 648 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: to contain every god and devil there ever was big 649 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: enough to hold the weight of oceans, and the turning stars, 650 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 1: hold universes fit in there. But what do we choose 651 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: to keep in this miraculous cabinet? Little broken thing, sad 652 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: trinkets that we play with over and over. The world 653 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: turns our key, and we play the same little tune 654 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: again and again, and we think that tunes all we are, 655 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: that's keep coming back to. And then here's an older one. 656 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: Here's one from seventy four from author O'shanessy, from the 657 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: ode to his book Music and Moonlight. We are the 658 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 1: music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams, wandering 659 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 1: by lone sea breakers and sitting by desolate streams, world 660 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: losers and world forsakers on whom the pale moon gleams. 661 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: Yet we are the movers and shakers of the world forever, 662 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 1: it seems. And you've probably heard everyone from Willy Wonka 663 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 1: to a f X twin site that poem, but it's 664 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,080 Speaker 1: a it's another sort of beautiful line that that I 665 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 1: wanted to lead out with here. Very nice. Let's bring 666 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 1: that dreamy robot by. Yes, we have some listener mail 667 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 1: to get to and one of them is dream related. 668 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: As we mentioned, we heard from listener Dan, and I'm 669 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: not gonna read all of Dan's email, but he he 670 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 1: raised a number of really cool points and hopefully he'll 671 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 1: chime in with more after this podcast to get his 672 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: lucid dreaming feedback on this episode that he says Robert Julie, 673 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 1: on one of your recent podcasts, you talked about how 674 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 1: most people never utilize lucid dreamings for sexual experiences because 675 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 1: they'd rather fly or be a giant. I wanted to 676 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: let you know this isn't the case. He goes on 677 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,960 Speaker 1: to say, once you realize you're dreaming, the hardest part 678 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 1: is to remember that you're dreaming. It's very easy to 679 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: slip back into standard dreaming out of lucy dreaming. Conversely, 680 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: it can also be very easy to wake yourself up 681 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 1: and waste a perfectly go to lucid dreams, So it's 682 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: important to keep reminding yourself that you're dreaming. Looking at 683 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: your hands helps for some reason. And whatever you do, 684 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: don't open your eyes because you'll snap up right out 685 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: of it. I got to the point where I was 686 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: having a vivid, lucid dream every couple of months, so 687 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 1: I started experimenting with the possibilities. First I learned how 688 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: to fly, which took a little practice. Eventually I could 689 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:12,839 Speaker 1: do it quite easily. It's kind of like the story 690 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 1: of Peter Pan, because you actually have to believe you 691 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,240 Speaker 1: can fly. Later, I started learning how to conjure objects. 692 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,280 Speaker 1: The first thing I conjured was a sword that formed 693 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,840 Speaker 1: in my hands. I tried to conjure people in places 694 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,360 Speaker 1: with much difficulty until I figured out a wonderful little trick. 695 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: Just find a door, walk to any door, and convince 696 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: yourself before you open it, and whoever or whatever you 697 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 1: want is behind it. I want to use this trick 698 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 1: to conjure a lustful, scantily clad woman, and proceeded to 699 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,319 Speaker 1: have some great lucid dreaming sex. Let me tell you, 700 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: it's right up there with flying. So there you go, 701 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,920 Speaker 1: because we had to because a lot of people when 702 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 1: they did talk about their lucid dreamings, they discussed flying 703 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,800 Speaker 1: and growing huge, and even Frederic Vilhem von Eden, who 704 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: coined the term. In his descriptions of lucid dreaming, he 705 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,760 Speaker 1: tends to focus more and more on the fabulous aspects 706 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 1: of it and kind of discounts the erotic side of 707 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: lucid dreaming and his experience. So well, it's not really 708 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: t talk, you know. All right, Well, let's move onto 709 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,400 Speaker 1: another listener mail. This one is from Maria Mary all Right, 710 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:10,480 Speaker 1: Senses High, Robert, and Julie. I've been listening to your 711 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 1: show for a long time now and really enjoy it, 712 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 1: especially the more philosophical topics. I wanted to write in 713 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 1: about your episode on the lust because there is something 714 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: you didn't quite touch on, and that is the societal 715 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: pressure that exists now to be lustful in the sexual sense, 716 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: almost like the opposite of the prudence pressure that existed 717 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,799 Speaker 1: before when we freed ourselves from those shackles. I feel 718 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 1: like we went running too far in the other direction, 719 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,840 Speaker 1: and now the pressure is more on being lustful. I 720 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 1: don't think people notice too much, but it is very 721 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: apparent to me, being a sexual myself, that there is 722 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 1: a lot of pressure both from my peers and the multimedia. 723 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 1: Now people see it as an expression of freedom and 724 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 1: a pleasure that everyone should enjoy, regardless of whether they 725 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 1: want it or not, and often attempt to cure a 726 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: sexuality or advise me to go to the doctor. I 727 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: don't have anything against love and the free expression of sexuality, 728 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 1: but I think people need to tone it down a little. 729 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:03,600 Speaker 1: So there there, you know, I think that's some valid 730 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 1: commentary there, because as we've discussed before, I mean, we 731 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 1: live in this lust economy. We live in this world. 732 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: It is just so into our and so open with 733 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: our physical desires, and not everyone is really gonna I mean, 734 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 1: some people are going to have a very over sexed 735 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,719 Speaker 1: mind and they're gonna definitely flow in that direction a 736 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 1: lot easier. But then there are individuals who are, for 737 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:25,680 Speaker 1: the most part a sexual that pressure is gonna come 738 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,480 Speaker 1: on them on one right, And as you say, it's 739 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,920 Speaker 1: the last full commercial aspect of it. So there's this 740 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,160 Speaker 1: idea that you want to lust after something, that you 741 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,360 Speaker 1: have to have that deodorant because there's a lusty woman 742 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 1: smelling your armpit or something not you specifically. That is 743 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 1: an interesting bit of commentary and it made me recall 744 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,840 Speaker 1: and I feel like it's called the Science of Lust. 745 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: It's a discovery show, and they actually talked about usexuality, 746 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 1: which is not something that is studied a lot or 747 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 1: talked about a lot. So if anybody is interested in 748 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,719 Speaker 1: learning more about a sexuality, how it's hardwired or not hardwired, 749 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 1: you should check that out. One of my favorite characters 750 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 1: basically a sexual that would be Carlock Holmes basically in 751 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 1: a sexual character, and I have problems with adaptations to 752 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 1: try and sex him out too much, but yeah, you 753 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,040 Speaker 1: can't sex up the hounds too, that's not what that's 754 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,800 Speaker 1: about now. So he was always a great hero to me, 755 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 1: especially in my junior high in high school years, because 756 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 1: I'm like, like, you know, all the multimedia pressures on 757 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: me to even then, even as you're a team, there's 758 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 1: all you you watch the like the Wonder Years and stuff, 759 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,360 Speaker 1: and there's like sexual pressure in that. But then you 760 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,439 Speaker 1: can turn to Charlotte Holmes and you're like, Sherlock comes 761 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,400 Speaker 1: is amazing, and he doesn't he doesn't need any of this. 762 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:32,959 Speaker 1: There you go. Well, if you would like to share 763 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,799 Speaker 1: anything with us, be at Sherlock Holmes related or a 764 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 1: sexuality related or more importantly, write to us about your 765 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 1: lucid dreaming experiences. Are you a lucid dreamer? Have you 766 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 1: attempted it and failed? Are you still trying? Let us 767 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 1: know and let us know what your experience as a 768 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 1: lucid dreamer is like. Yeah, and you can also check 769 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 1: out an article about lucid dreaming on house to forks 770 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,320 Speaker 1: dot com and it's written by Katie Lambert. Really interesting. 771 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 1: But do drop us a line first of all Facebook 772 00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 1: that you can find us there Stuff to Blow your 773 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 1: Mind Twitter or Blow the Mind and it's a really 774 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,279 Speaker 1: cool feature right now called the Stuff to Blow Your 775 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 1: Mind photo upload contest. If you're listening to this particular 776 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,239 Speaker 1: episode around the time it publishes, you can find this 777 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 1: link on the how stuff Works dot com home page. 778 00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 1: You can find it on the how stuff Works Facebook account, 779 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:18,520 Speaker 1: and we'll also link to it on the Stuff to 780 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 1: Blow your Mind Facebook account. It's a really cool upload 781 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 1: to you take a cool photo if you think it's 782 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 1: mind blowing and like a scary, gross, amazing. There are 783 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 1: several categories. You have an image that you think is 784 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,120 Speaker 1: really awesome and you took it, inner it there you 785 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,239 Speaker 1: might be able to win an iPad. Yeah you heard 786 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,320 Speaker 1: that iPad alright, so and do you drop in it? 787 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,919 Speaker 1: You do, drop in Email us at Blow the Mind 788 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:48,319 Speaker 1: at Discovery dot com. Be sure to check out our 789 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 1: new video podcast, Stuff from the Future. Join how Stuff 790 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:55,520 Speaker 1: Work staff as we explore them as promising and perplexing possibilities. 791 00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 1: Up tomorrow