1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of I 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast everybody. I'm Josh, 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: and there's Chuck and Jerry's out there running around somewhere. Uh. 4 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: And this is stuff you should know about Fender and 5 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: less Paul Heart Do Should we recap real quick? Yeah? 6 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: I think so. It seems appropriate, all right. Well, where 7 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:35,919 Speaker 1: we left off with part one was Leo Fender, lifelong engineer, 8 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: tinker and non musician, has made a career making amps 9 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: and trying to figure out the problem with electric guitar feedback. 10 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 1: Les Paul was a budding superstar guitar player and session player, 11 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: also tinkerer, trying to figure out this problem of amplifying 12 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: the electric guitar without feedback, and they were introduced in 13 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: trying to figure this out together. And then enters a 14 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 1: third gentleman who may have had more to do with 15 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: the invention of the solid body electric guitars we know it, 16 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 1: than either one of them. For real. This is where 17 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: things get a little bit shady, little murky, when Carrie 18 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 1: Grant enters what's the guy's name, Paul? His name is 19 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: Paul Biggsby, and I've heard of the last name I've 20 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: I've seen those guitars before. Is it still are the 21 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: is the company is still around? Yeah, So here's the deal. 22 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: Biggsby is now most well known for what's called the 23 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,759 Speaker 1: Biggsby tail piece, which is he's the guy who kind 24 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: of invented the wammy bar. If you know nothing about guitars, 25 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: but you've ever seen like Eddie Van Halen play. Not 26 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: all guitarists use these things. But if you hit a 27 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: note and then you reach below the guitar and grab 28 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: that little steel bar and make it go wow, why wow, 29 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: wow wow, that's a whammy bar. Bigsby invented that, and 30 00:01:57,800 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: he is still most well known. Like you can get 31 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: Biggsby tail piece put onto a Less Paul or an 32 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: s G or uh. You can't do a two Fenders 33 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: because they have their own I guess you could with 34 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: a telecaster, but um, any guitar without a wammy bar 35 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: you could put on a Biggsby tail piece. They're beautiful, 36 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: they look great, and that's what they're kind of most 37 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,959 Speaker 1: well known for today. Okay, gotcha. But at the time 38 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: Bigsby was he was the oldest of so Leo Fender. 39 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: If you didn't realize was older than Less Paul, and 40 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: Paul Bigsby was older than Leo, and he had started 41 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: out his career as a motorcycle racer and then went 42 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: on to start to make up motorcycle parts, I believe, 43 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: and then moved on to instruments. And he Um was 44 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: known to Leo Fender and that they were competitors because 45 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: Um Biggsby also made electric steel guitars at the time. 46 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: I don't know if they were friendly necessarily, but I 47 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: do know that they definitely worked together in Fenders workshop. 48 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: UM kind of working on electric instruments together, so I 49 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: would guess you'd have to be somewhat friendly. It wasn't 50 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 1: like you know, Macy's and gimbals or anything like that. 51 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, I think I think that's about right. Okay, 52 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: So they definitely worked together at some point in time, 53 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 1: and they were friendly enough to to do that, and 54 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: there they were dedicated to creating that big electric sound 55 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: out of a guitar. Um and Bigsby, if you ever 56 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: have seen those guitars that he made, they were beautiful. 57 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: They were It was a lot like Gibson. They were artisan. 58 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: UM just just crafted works of art basically UM one 59 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: at a time, kind of things exactly, and so he 60 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: already had Um, Paul Bigsby already had a name for 61 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: himself in that respect. And he was hanging out at 62 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: a radio station as guitar makers do in l a 63 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: um k x l A, which featured country music played 64 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: live kind of like Grand Old Opry stuff, I guess, 65 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: and uh, country mus sition named Merle Travis Um was there, 66 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: I believe, playing, and Merle Travis knew Paul Biggsby at 67 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,839 Speaker 1: least by reputation, and said, Hey, you know I heard 68 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: you can build anybody whatever, whatever they're looking for. If 69 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: I draw you a picture of a guitar, can you 70 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: make it for me? And I guess Paul Bigsby said 71 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 1: challenge accepted, good sir, and um, we should probably fast 72 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: forward about a month or two. Huh yeah. And I 73 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: just again, I want to stress the fact that at 74 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: one point in Les, Paul Leo Fender and Paul Bigsby 75 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: are all together in a garage and county in southern California. 76 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 1: And this is like, I mean, it makes my mind 77 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: explode to think about those three men in a room 78 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: together like working on something. I'm like, I'm trying to 79 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: think of another industry where like three separate top brains 80 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 1: got together like this, and I can't even think of 81 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: a of anything to compare it to. It'd be like 82 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: if um, Steve Jobs, Build Gates and Paul Giamatti all 83 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: got to I couldn't. Yes. Yeah, uh So anyway, a 84 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 1: very just special moment in history. So yeah, he comes 85 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: back a few months later, uh, with this guitar. Leo 86 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: Fender is backstage at a show and Merle Travis is 87 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 1: there playing, and he pulls out this thing that Paul 88 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: Bigsby made And if you look up Merl Travis Bigsby guitar, 89 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 1: this thing is beautiful. It is a gorgeous guitar and 90 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: looks like and is a real deal solid body electric guitar. Yeah, 91 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: and he pulls it out in front of Leo Fender 92 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 1: no Less, who said, hey, Merel, that's a pretty neat 93 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 1: looking guitar there. Uh, you mind if I get my 94 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: hands on that for a little bit and just check 95 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: it out. I want to see what it's all about. 96 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 1: You know, this little prototype out of the way right, uh, 97 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: And Merle Travis was kind enough to let Leo Fender 98 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: borrow it, and Leo Fender and so should we should 99 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,840 Speaker 1: caveat this? Supposedly, Leo Fender, where he alive today, would 100 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: be like, no, no, that's not true. No, this is 101 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: not correct. But supposedly there are informed people who say 102 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 1: that Merle Travis let um that let Leo Fender take 103 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: his guitar that Paul Bigsby had made for him back 104 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 1: to Leo Fender's workshop and basically have a reverse engineer 105 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: session all over it. Yeah, this is where it gets 106 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: a little hinky, because Leo Fender was a great man 107 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: and a great inventor of things. Um, but what he 108 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: was really really good at was improving things. He was 109 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: like the Japanese, Yeah, and um, they make some pretty 110 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 1: good guitars to it, think right, but there, well, the 111 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: Japanese are well known for taking something that's pretty cool 112 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 1: and then just improving the heck out of it, and 113 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: like he say, you should do it? Yeah exactly. Uh 114 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: so Yeah, I mean definitely a point in history sort 115 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: of a crossroads where some people are like Leo Fender 116 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: stole this from Paul Bigsby and was able to mass 117 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,799 Speaker 1: produce it, whereas Bigsby was intent on making these artists 118 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: and pieces one by one and just got left in 119 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: the dust. Um, there may be something to that. If 120 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: you look at the headstock for that original Bigsby guitar, 121 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: and you look at the head stock and the head 122 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: stock is at the the very end of the neck 123 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: where the strings end up and where the little tuning 124 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: pegs are, it looks a lot like the Stratocaster headstock, 125 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: almost exactly like it. And he denied kind of even 126 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: ganking that, but in meetings at Fender later on, there 127 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: were higher ups at Fender that said, go out and 128 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: make us something like that Biggsby, Like they literally said that. 129 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: So it's kind of undeniable at this point. Um. He 130 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: was even sued. There was a lawsuit that Bigsby sent 131 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: about the head stock and they basically said, you know, 132 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: they were there were too many just sort of similar 133 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: kinds of things before this, so it's not gonna hold water. Well, 134 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: not only that, Um, there there is some there are 135 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: other similarities to like you talked about that little wammy bar. Um, 136 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: the biggs By had one. It's called the biggs By 137 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: pure vibrato, where basically you're you're you're pushing pushing down 138 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: on a bar that's actually manipula I don't understand. Actually, Chuck, 139 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: what is manipulation? Maybe you should take this part. All 140 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: I know is that it affects the sound like wa 141 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: wa wa wah like that, But I don't know the 142 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: mechanism by which it does the wa wah wah wah. 143 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: It's really easy because it's purely mechanical. It's the guitar 144 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: bridge is the part where you're, if you're right handed players, 145 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,479 Speaker 1: where the right hand is, and that's where the strings 146 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: are rooted. So what the wammy bar and what the 147 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: Bigsby tailpiece did is it lifts up the back of 148 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: the bridge and it literally manually loosens the guitar strings 149 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: until you release it, and then it snaps them back. 150 00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: So if you press on it, it just it's literally 151 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 1: losing the guitar string enough to make it go wait 152 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: wait waiting. And you remember when you do this around 153 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: the pickup the metal strings and steel strings affect the 154 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,319 Speaker 1: the electrical signal that's produced. So if you're messing with 155 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: the strings, you're messing with the electrical signal and hence 156 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: the sound. Right. Uh. The other thing we should point 157 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: out that Leo Fender probably kind of stole was the 158 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: all the tuning pegs on the headstock are all on 159 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 1: top and in one line. So if you look at 160 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: telecasters and strato casters, and that's sort of the Fender thing, 161 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: they're all in a row because it's just really easy 162 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: to access them as a player, whereas uh Gibson models 163 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: were based on acoustic or Spanish guitars, where there's three 164 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 1: on one side and three on the other. And in 165 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: order to turn to tune those lower strings or I 166 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: guess the higher strings, you have to reach under and around. 167 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 1: And Leo Fender was I guess he saw this design 168 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: was like, hey, that's kind of brilliant. Actually to put 169 00:09:56,040 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: them all on one side, that's superior. Frankly. Yeah, so yeah, 170 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: it's really tough to get around. Like if you put 171 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 1: the there's plenty of pictures out there. If you put 172 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: that first Bigsby Merle Travis guitar next to the first 173 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: guitar that Fender ever mass produced, it's pretty much the 174 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 1: same thing in a lot of ways. Um, And so yeah, 175 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: I don't know. It was tough to swallow it. But 176 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: like you said, the idea UM, the idea of impugning 177 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: um Leo Fender's character, it just doesn't it doesn't quite 178 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: make sense because he was a great guy and he 179 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: did do a lot um for the industry, and he 180 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 1: founded Fender, which just that alone is pretty amazing too. 181 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: But one of the things that he doesn't necessarily get 182 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: credit for UM at least outside of like musicians circles 183 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: I'm guessing, but UM is the basse that he created, right, Yeah, 184 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: the Precision basse um. Before the electric bass guitar. The 185 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: basses were all the big standard upright basses, and they 186 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: were a problem because they were huge. You either had 187 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: to drop it to the strap it to the top 188 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: of your car, uh and you know, potentially have it 189 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: get beat up by weather, or you had to ride 190 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: separately from the rest of the band because that thing 191 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,319 Speaker 1: filled up the entire back seat. They were just big 192 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: and bulky and hard to transport. So uh leo. Fender 193 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: again was not the first UM. A guy named Paul 194 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: tut Mark who worked on He was a big lap 195 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: steel maker and he founded the Audiobox company, which is 196 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:35,560 Speaker 1: still around fifteen years before the Fender p base. The 197 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: Precision base. He invented what's generally known as the first 198 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: electric solid body bass guitar. It just didn't take off 199 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: like the precision. And again the p bass is called 200 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 1: a precision because the upright basse doesn't have frets. So 201 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: if you knew how to play it, you know how 202 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:52,200 Speaker 1: to play it, but you couldn't be like go to 203 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: the fourth fret. You would just sort of not guess, 204 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: but you would generally know where it falls. The electric 205 00:11:57,559 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: bass guitar, the p bass had frets, so they say 206 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: it had more precisions, so that's why they called it that. 207 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: But that's another thing that's easy to overlook too, is 208 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: like you know, the electric guitar, it's it's pretty different 209 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: from like the electric Spanish guitar, but it's still in 210 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: the same general it's like a progression from that. The 211 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: electric bass was like hull cloth and a new invention basically, 212 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 1: and it changed everything too. I mean, like I was 213 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 1: reading an article I think, yeah that you sent from 214 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 1: maybe Pitchfork UM where I was talking about like just 215 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: how much that changed things having that around like basically 216 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: Motown and then later on Funk like like none of 217 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: that would have existed without the electric bass, and like um, 218 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 1: like another one bites the Dust and like Pink Floyd's 219 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 1: Dark Side of the Moon and like you know, Parliament, 220 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: like all these like bands were predicated on the fact 221 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: that there was like a nice slappy electric bass that, um, 222 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: you just couldn't get around, You couldn't ignore it. It It 223 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: became like a part of the band rather than just 224 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 1: some background thing that was more visual than than audio 225 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 1: or wait oral, Yeah, because the upright basse kind of 226 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: ended up having the same problem as the acoustic guitar, 227 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: and that once they had electric guitars, that upright bass 228 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: wouldn't really cut through live, and so you had, you know, 229 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: the a song is driven by the rhythm section that 230 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: the bass player and the drummer. That's when you ever 231 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: hear about the rhythm section. They drive the heart of 232 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 1: the song. Everyone follows them. Like as much as you 233 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: think is the guitars out front, it's not leading the band. 234 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: The low end is what's actually leading the song, and 235 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: everyone else kind of falls in line with that because 236 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:41,559 Speaker 1: they're setting that beat with the bass and the drums. 237 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: But he's he's working on this and again not to 238 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: get in the weeds with the amps, but this whole 239 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: time he's making leaps and bounds on amplification that works 240 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: at really high volume with these Fender amps. Yeah, and 241 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: then one of the other things that made Fender really 242 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:06,239 Speaker 1: innovative was he um aided the he created like instruments 243 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: for everyday people. That was the big innovation for him. 244 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: Like his company set out to create to bring this 245 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: stuff to the masses so that you know, teenage kids 246 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: could save up from like there after school job and 247 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: like buy one of these things and buy an amp 248 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: and start a band and maybe actually get kind of 249 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: good and it like I mean, I hate to use 250 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: this word because it's so over used these days, but 251 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: he kind of democratized starting a band. Whereas before you 252 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: had to you know, you're you had like a twenty 253 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: piece band, and you had to know all these people, 254 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: and you had to do dance halls and everything. And 255 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: now you could you could because everything was amplified and electrified. 256 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: You could get away with just you know, three or 257 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: four pieces and um everybody could hear you, and they 258 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: could hear you louder than they could hear the big 259 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: bands from before um because it was amplified, but it 260 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: was affordable. And he also made him really durable too. Yeah, 261 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: And it was because he introduced kind of like a 262 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: factory process to it. Whereas over at Gibson and Rick 263 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:04,360 Speaker 1: and Bucker and Bigsby, they were all still making these 264 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: hands kind of not one at a time, but they 265 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: were making them by hand, very slowly. Uh. One of 266 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 1: the big reasons he was able to factory I is 267 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: it was he started he was basically the only company 268 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: using a bolt on neck. Um. So in other words, 269 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: you take the neck and you literally screw it into 270 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: the body of the guitar on the back. And that's 271 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: why anytime you see a Fender guitar on the back, 272 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: they have this little silver square plate where the neck 273 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: meets the body and under that it's where it's bolted together. Um. 274 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: Gibson and basically everyone else was using uh what's called 275 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: set neck which are glued on. And you might think that, 276 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: like many bolting sounds a lot better than glue. But 277 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: what glue does is that actually it hears it and 278 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: makes it more like that log almost like a through neck. 279 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: It makes it part of the body and gives you 280 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: more warmth and a little more sustain and it's just 281 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: a bit of a different it sound. Whereas the both 282 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: on guitar got a little more known for sort of 283 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: being kind of pluckier, and you know, they both have 284 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: their advantages. Some people swear by one or the other, 285 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: but uh, neither like nowadays, neither one of them is 286 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: superior to the next. Really, it's just sort of two 287 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: different methods. Gotcha, I got you. But I could also 288 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 1: see that Bolt almost represents that mass production to ye 289 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: for sure. So it took um Leo Fenders working on that, 290 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: um big we'll call it Biggsby inspired design. And at 291 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: the same time, um Les Paul is about to have 292 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: a life changing experience in Oklahoma of all places. Right, Yeah, 293 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: So he, like I said, was not a good husband 294 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 1: to either his first wife or his second. Really, he 295 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: had a long time affair with a woman her with 296 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: her stage name of Mary Ford. She was a singer 297 00:16:55,760 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 1: and also a champion guitar player. Uh, they had at 298 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: a duo going on. It was Less Paul mary Ford, 299 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: and they had tons and tons of number one hit records, 300 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: and they had been together for quite a few years 301 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 1: before he even got divorced from his first wife. But 302 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: in while traveling I think back to l A from Wisconsin, 303 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: they were in a really bad car accident on the 304 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 1: icy roads of uh near Davenport, Oklahoma, and it was 305 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: a really really bad wreck that could have killed both 306 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: of them. Yeah. So um, they were both thrown from 307 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 1: the car along with all their equipment. UM. And from 308 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: what I understand, Mary's injuries weren't nearly as bad as 309 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 1: less as um his spleen was all messed up a 310 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: bunch of other stuff. But the big problem for less 311 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: Paul was that his right elbow was shattered, and at 312 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 1: first the doctors said, well, we're just gonna have to 313 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: amputate your arm, and that obviously would have been that 314 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 1: for his guitar playing days. Um. Apparently, when he was 315 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: faced with this news, when of the first things he 316 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:05,199 Speaker 1: started doing was um coming up with how to create 317 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: um an effect where you could play guitar one handed. Um. 318 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: But he luckily did never have to actually follow through 319 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: and invent that, because uh, some doctor was aware of 320 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,120 Speaker 1: his status and that he played guitar and like that. 321 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:24,120 Speaker 1: He just they couldn't take his arm, so he set 322 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 1: about trying to figure out how to solve the problem 323 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 1: while keeping his arm and allowing less Paul to somehow 324 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 1: play one way or another. Yeah, I mean, he basically 325 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: gave less Paul the choice. He was like, you can 326 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: either amputate it, or we can try this procedure where 327 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 1: we kind of screw your arm back together and we 328 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,439 Speaker 1: don't know if it'll work. And he he said, but 329 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: it's gonna be permanently bent in some kind of direction. 330 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 1: And less Paul said, why don't we at least try 331 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: it first so we know if it works before we 332 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: cut the arm off, And he said, and just bend 333 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: it and pointed towards my belly button and leave it there. Yeah, 334 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: so he could play guitar. And that's what they did, 335 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,120 Speaker 1: and for the rest of less Paul's life. Like if 336 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: you ever see a picture of less Paul, that right 337 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: arm is bent. Yeah, and the doctor just to put 338 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: a little flourish on it, made it so that his 339 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: thumb was always in the thumbs up position, so it 340 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 1: always looks like Les Paul was really happy about whatever 341 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: was going on when that picture was taken. Alright, So 342 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: that's where Les Paul is. He recovers. It literally takes 343 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: him about a year in the hospital to fully recover 344 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: from his injuries. So he's on pause when Leo Fender 345 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: builds Uh the Fender Esquire guitar and debuts it at 346 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: the nineteen National Association of Music Merchants Convention in Chicago. 347 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 1: I say we take a break here and then we 348 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: come back and talk about that and keep going. How 349 00:19:47,600 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: about that? It sounds great. Okay, we'll be right back 350 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: and shock alright, chuck so um so. Leo Fender takes 351 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:30,400 Speaker 1: his um Paul Bigsby inspired guitar and creates a prototype 352 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: out of it that's known as the Esquire. And I 353 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 1: think there's some differences between the Esquire and what would 354 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: become later known as a Telecaster, Right, it's not the 355 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 1: exact same thing, just with a different name. Uh yeah, 356 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: I mean I think there was only one pick up 357 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: and the Telly ended up having a couple, but it 358 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: was when you look at pictures of the Esquire, it's 359 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: the same body shape, very utilitarian. Uh, not the most 360 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: comfortable guitar to play. Um, which we'll see later on 361 00:20:57,920 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 1: what's kind of a big deal in the creation of 362 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: the strap a cast. But it was a real deal 363 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: guitar and it was loud, it was clear it could 364 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:10,400 Speaker 1: be mass produced, and everybody basically said this is the future. Yeah, 365 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,360 Speaker 1: He's had the National Association of Music Merchants convention going, hey, 366 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 1: you like you like it this, you like it this guitar, 367 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: and they all said yes very much. So he went 368 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: back after the convention and kind of tinkered with it 369 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:27,640 Speaker 1: a little more. Um. He had a collaborator named George Fullerton, uh, 370 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: and they ended up producing from the Esquire. There are 371 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 1: a couple of problems with it, apparently from the steel 372 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: strings when they were tuned tightly. Um, eventually the neck 373 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: would start to warp a little bit. That's a big problem. 374 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: So they figured out how to reinforce it with the rod, 375 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: and they solved some other small problems and then ended 376 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: up coming up with the broadcaster. Right, that's right. Uh. 377 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 1: A guy we should mention here is Um. I think 378 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: Dave called him as marketing sales guy. It's true he 379 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 1: was that Don Randall, but he was Leo Fenders d 380 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: fifty partner in the Fender Music Corporation and a huge, 381 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: huge part of this story that we really won't get into. 382 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: But Don Randall was there the whole time and and 383 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: sort of was everything that Leo Fender wasn't as far 384 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,360 Speaker 1: as when you're looking for a good business partner, UM 385 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: out there hitting the bricks selling this thing, drumming up deals, 386 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: and the Broadcaster. You know, the ads came out and 387 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: he got that first cease and desist from Gretch. The 388 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: they made drums and guitars, and there was actually a 389 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 1: drum set called the Broadcaster with a k. It sounds 390 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: like a sound you make when you burp and choke 391 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 1: at the same time. Yeah, broadcaster, no Gretch. Oh I 392 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: misread that one. Sorry, broadcaster with the case sounds evil? 393 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,919 Speaker 1: Remember yeah, yeah, yeah, um Gretch still makes beautiful guitars 394 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: and great drums, but they had a drum set with 395 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: a k. Uh. So they said, all right, we gotta 396 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: think of a different name. And so TV was the 397 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 1: latest thing, and so they literally called it the Telecaster 398 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 1: because of that, I know, and people were like, boy, howdy, 399 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: I love this. They did, so that was a big deal. 400 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 1: The Telecaster was I guess the first mass produced, widely 401 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:18,679 Speaker 1: available electric guitar, solid body electric guitar that shredded, that 402 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 1: you could shred on. I guess. Yeah. It kind of 403 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: started at all. Yeah, and so um Less Paul by 404 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: this time he had gotten in that car rec in 405 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,159 Speaker 1: n you said. It took him about a year to recover. Um. 406 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 1: He got divorced from his wife. He ended up marrying 407 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 1: Mary Ford um, and together they actually his his music 408 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: career got even even greater than it was when he 409 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: was working with Bing Crosby. Um. This is when they 410 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: had four slots on the Billboard top charts at one 411 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 1: time on one week. That's enormous. They were the first 412 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 1: to do it. I'm sure maybe some others like Michael Jackson, 413 00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 1: the Beatles and a couple others have done it since, 414 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: but there were only kind of gets across just how 415 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: huge less Paul was as a popular musician. Right. Yeah, 416 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 1: Mary was great and um, everyone loved her. She had 417 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,159 Speaker 1: a beautiful voice. Again, he was not a good husband 418 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: to her. He was eventually when they got divorced, it 419 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,199 Speaker 1: was on grounds of cruelty. Was one of them because 420 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: he was just a workaholic and would never stop, and 421 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: he would not let her stop. And she was like 422 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,400 Speaker 1: where they were really really wealthy at this point from 423 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: their career, and she was like, can we enjoy life 424 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: a little bit? Can we stop and and live? And 425 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: he was like no, Like, we're not getting anything accomplished 426 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: if we're doing that. And the stage act was a 427 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 1: little I mean, I guess for the time it was 428 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: what it was, but it was kind of misogynistic. He 429 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: would make cracks about about Mary, you know, singing in 430 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 1: between doing the dishes and and kind of you know, 431 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: making him dinner, and she would sort of laugh, and 432 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: it was their banter, but it was just the whole 433 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: thing was kind of gross in retrospect, Yeah, for sure, 434 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 1: especially today and then the cats on the unicycles with 435 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: the Sparklers. It was just widely considered to be over 436 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,439 Speaker 1: the top. Yeah, way over the top. So um, But 437 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,200 Speaker 1: because Leo knew Less Paul, I mean, like you said, 438 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: they they and Paul Bigsby were all working in a 439 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,360 Speaker 1: garage together, working on electric guitars. Like you kne him. 440 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,400 Speaker 1: He was friendly with him enough so that, um, Leo 441 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: Fender and Don Randall said, you know, if we could 442 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: get Less Paul, who's like the most well known guitar 443 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 1: player in the world, to endorse our Fender guitars, this 444 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: would be a huge deal, huge. So they sent him 445 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 1: a telecaster and with a note saying like, hey, this 446 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,360 Speaker 1: is where I'm going, I'd like you to to consider 447 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: coming here with me something along I'm paraphrasing, um and uh, 448 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 1: Less Paul was like, no, that's all right, I don't 449 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 1: really like this guitar that much. Yeah, I think he 450 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: was fairly kind about it, but he just said, this 451 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 1: sound is too bright at that bolt on neck and 452 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 1: you know, it's a different sound, and he didn't like it. 453 00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 1: And remember, like that was the whole reason he dedicated 454 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 1: himself to coming up with the electric guitar and cracking 455 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: this code for a decade or more a couple of 456 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: decades by that, because he wanted to. He was searching 457 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: for that one perfect sound and so that actually he 458 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 1: didn't give up the quest after Fender said, you know, 459 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: here's my guitar and it didn't work. Um Les Paul, 460 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 1: despite having been turned away by Gibson a full decade before, 461 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: went back to Gibson and said, hey, you guys have 462 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: to listen to me this time, like it's this is 463 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: this is where things are going. Look, Leo Fender has 464 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: just come out with this telecaster, Like it's very clear 465 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: that you guys need to be developing a solid body 466 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 1: electric guitar. And Gibson said, funny, you should mention that 467 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: because we've been working on it ever since we saw 468 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 1: that Esquire at that music convention and it knocked our 469 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,679 Speaker 1: socks off, that's right, So they were kind of already 470 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:55,719 Speaker 1: on it um. They were different, they were they were 471 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 1: sort of modeled after those acoustics with the tuning pegs 472 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 1: on both sides. The Gibson guitar was really heavy, and 473 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 1: that's it's funny. Later on, many many guitar players started 474 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: with what would end up being the Less Paul. Eric 475 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 1: Clapton and uh and Keith Richards and all these people 476 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: played the less Paul early on, and a lot I 477 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:21,360 Speaker 1: think Pete Townsend and they all eventually switch to fenders 478 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,960 Speaker 1: later in their career because the less Paul weighs between 479 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: nine and ten pounds and the strats and Telly's way 480 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 1: about seven pounds, and it's difference two or three pounds 481 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 1: strapped on your back when you're touring is a big deal. 482 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 1: Like I can tell a difference when I play a 483 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 1: heavy guitar, you know, being fifty years old in my 484 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 1: basement after a few hours, so I can imagine what 485 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 1: like touring year after year, what what kind of told 486 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:47,639 Speaker 1: that takes, for sure. But this Gibson was heavy. It 487 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: had that glued on neck which gives you a little 488 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 1: more warmth, a little more resonance, and it was a 489 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 1: really good guitar. And so they say to less Paul like, 490 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: now he's being courted by Gibson officially, like, hey, what 491 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: do you think of this? We will let this be 492 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 1: your guitar, We will slap your name on it, will 493 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 1: give you a five percent royalty, and you've got to 494 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: play it exclusively. And he said the done deal, my friends. Yeah, 495 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 1: because he was like like he'd always only played Gibsons. 496 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 1: He loved Gibson. This is like a dream come true 497 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 1: for him, you know, and for them also to come 498 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: back to him now, um had had to feel awfully sweet. 499 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 1: But it was so stupid too, because this is a 500 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: decade after he went to them with this idea of 501 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 1: the first time and now they're finally getting around to it. 502 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 1: But it was a big deal. So Less Paul now 503 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: played Gibson guitars exclusively and they named that first model 504 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: the Lebson the Gibson. Less Paul. Yeah, I wonder if 505 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 1: in that meeting he said, can also tell people that 506 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: I U I designed and invented this thing, because that's 507 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: what I'm gonna do for the rest of my life. Yeah, 508 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: which which is really something because he apparently didn't. There's 509 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: a guy named uh, I think Paul McCarty, George McCarty. 510 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: I think George McCarty. I'm sorry, I'm pretty sure his 511 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: name is George McCarty. UM. He was the president of 512 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: Gibson at the time. His last name is McCarty. Let's 513 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: just call him that or mr X. Mr X was 514 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: the president of Gibson at the time, and he um 515 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: largely designed the guitar. But yeah, they kind of let 516 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: I guess as part of the endorsement deal, they let 517 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: um less Paul just basically claim it like he had 518 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: a lot to do with it. He made some tweaks 519 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: um for sure, but he never designed the less ball 520 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,960 Speaker 1: that that is also a fact. And he did not 521 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: admit the electric guitar. A lot of people still say 522 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 1: that Les Paul invented the electric guitar, and he was 523 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 1: always happy to just sort of nod his head right, 524 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: all right, Chuck. So like by the by the mid fifties, 525 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 1: by the early fifties, um Fender had the Telecaster out, 526 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: um Gibson had their less Palm model out, So they 527 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: were now widely available electric guitars being produced, and that 528 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: that sounded awesome, like this sound had finally been a 529 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 1: cheap loudness, clarity, shredding nous, gnarly nous. All of that 530 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: stuff was now extant in the world. Did not exist 531 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 1: before now it did. But the one that really changed everything, 532 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: the the electric guitar that changed at all was um Offenders. 533 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: If not their second model, they're definitely their second well 534 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: known model, the Stratocaster, right, which came out in nine. Yeah, 535 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 1: this was a huge innovation because the problems with the 536 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: Telly is that it uh like I said it was 537 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 1: it was. It wasn't rounded, it wasn't sharp, and I'm 538 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: talking about the edges of it. It was you know, 539 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: it kind of dug into your body and wasn't super comfortable. 540 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: So Leo Finder does what he does, which is making 541 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 1: improvements like the Japanese, and he got into the back 542 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: of it and he he carved out where the top 543 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 1: of the back of the guitar meets your belly. He 544 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: shaved that down to where it was contoured and then 545 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: where your right arm if you're right and player your 546 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: pick hand, where it where your forearm kind of rests 547 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 1: on the top front of the guitar. He carved that 548 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: down to and contoured it so your arm and your 549 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: belly weren't pressed against these sharp edges, and it was 550 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: just a more comfortable guitar all the way around. It 551 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: had a had a cool look. This was a time 552 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 1: in the early fifties, mid fifties when you know, these 553 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: these cars has had these big fins on them and 554 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: everything just had this sort of look like it's hard 555 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: to describe what the how weird the stratocaster and how 556 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 1: sort of modern and futuristic it looked at the time 557 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 1: because we all just see that it's like, oh, that's 558 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: what a guitar looks like. But at the time it 559 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 1: was revolutionary and everyone literally was like, what in the 560 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: world is that hot looking thing? Yeah. One of the 561 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: other things that made it look hot, those fins had 562 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,360 Speaker 1: a purpose. The horns at the top of the guitar, 563 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 1: where the neck met the body. Um, it carved out 564 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: space so you could get your fingers to press those 565 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 1: frets on the higher notes a lot more easily than 566 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 1: you could have before when you were reaching all the 567 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 1: way around it, which again allowed for greater shredding. That's right, 568 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: And the fenders did those on both sides, whereas the 569 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: Less Paul was only carved on the underside, so you 570 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: could still get into some strings, but it took a 571 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 1: little bit of finagling. Uh. Later on, Les Paul would 572 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: come up and I have one of these two what's 573 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: called the double cut where it's cut on both sides, 574 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 1: and the Gibson s G which is cut on both sides. 575 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 1: But originally it was just Fender doing that, and then 576 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,239 Speaker 1: the Less Paul did something that just did away with 577 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 1: that all together and made the coolest guitar of all time, 578 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 1: the Flying V, which is the one I always associated 579 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 1: with heavy metal. And by Less Paul, of course I 580 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 1: mean Gibson, but that that that's the one. Like Jimmy 581 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: Hendricks played that one, like, um, I can't remember, like 582 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: a bunch of people played it. You've seen this before, 583 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: but when he looked, well, he also played a Flying 584 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,959 Speaker 1: V I've seen. I've seen pictures on of it on 585 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,719 Speaker 1: the internet. Um, but the the UM like it's what 586 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 1: you associate with, like like just just rocking out with 587 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 1: a guitar, and it turns out the thing was designed 588 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: in It's one of the most mind blowing facts I 589 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: learned in this podcast. I couldn't believe because I associated 590 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 1: with eighties hair metal, and um, it's been it was. 591 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 1: It had been around for a good thirty years by then, 592 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: and it like the fifties is when this thing came out. 593 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 1: It's like the coolest looking guitar of all time for 594 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 1: my money. No, I love the Flying V and I'll 595 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: probably own one at one point. At some point, you 596 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 1: should look up reverse Flying be because they were one 597 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: of the ugliest guitars. Yeah, I've seen that before, but yeah, 598 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: Gibson was tinkering around. They made the Flying V, and 599 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: they made the Explorer, which is the one that's kind 600 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 1: of looks like a lightning bolt. Uh, and then the 601 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: Firebird and those all did okay, but they weren't like 602 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: you know, and Leo fendered the same thing. After the 603 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: Stratocaster success, he came up with the jazz Master and 604 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 1: the Jaguar, and he thought these were all improvements on 605 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: those guitars because they added a lot more options for 606 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 1: switches and switching in additional pickups. But they were I mean, 607 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 1: they're kind of cool now, but they were a little 608 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 1: busy for a lot of players back then, so they 609 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 1: didn't take off like the strat did. It was just 610 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: this utilitarian, really comfortable players guitar that everyone really wanted 611 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 1: after Buddy Holly jumped on TV and and played one. 612 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: Because Buddy Holly was huge. Yeah, he was huge, and 613 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: he was actually bigger in the UK than he was 614 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 1: in America at the time. UM, and I didn't realize 615 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 1: to see this is another factor the podcast. There were 616 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:39,920 Speaker 1: two tours of the UK and ninety that changed music history. 617 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 1: I just think it's so cool. But one was Buddy Holly, 618 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: who Buddy Holly and the Crickets went on tour with 619 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 1: the Stratocaster front and center. And then Muddy Waters came 620 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: to the UK. And Muddy Waters have been around for 621 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: years by then. He actually was just kind of like 622 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,759 Speaker 1: an old relic in America by then. But it was 623 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: super cool in the sixties and the UK to be 624 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 1: into old style blues, so they brought Muddy Waters over 625 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:06,760 Speaker 1: and Muddy Waters didn't show up with the Spanish style guitar. 626 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 1: He showed up with the strato caster and blared it. 627 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,760 Speaker 1: Then those two tours produced bands like the Beatles, The Who, 628 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 1: the Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, UM like basically every band 629 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: in the British Invasion were in the audience as kids 630 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 1: are slightly younger men, uh for those two tours and 631 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 1: were inspired to go on and form some really amazing 632 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: bands afterward. Yeah, it was funny. It was kind of 633 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: like either you were in the Beatles camp where you 634 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,440 Speaker 1: saw Buddy Holly and you wanted to do sort of 635 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: upbeat pop music, or you were Eric Clapton going to 636 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: see Muddy Waters and you wanted to do this sort 637 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 1: of raunchy blues rock thing. But either way, it was 638 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 1: a strato caster front and center and another. Well, I 639 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 1: guess we should take a break now before we get 640 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 1: to the next guy. Right, all right, all right, we'll 641 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:01,279 Speaker 1: take our final break and talk about surf guitar legend 642 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: Dick Dale right after this blooms and shock. Okay, welcome, Wait, 643 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: hold on, let me do it differently. We're back, all right. 644 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: So all these people are being influenced by people like 645 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,439 Speaker 1: Buddy Holly and Muddy Waters. Then comes a gentleman named 646 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,240 Speaker 1: Dick Dale in the nineteen fifties, the you know everyone 647 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 1: knows him now, of course, is the the head of 648 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 1: the surf guitar surf music movement. And that was big. 649 00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: That wasn't just like a sort of like, oh, some 650 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,279 Speaker 1: people are listening to that. That was like the most 651 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: popular form of music for a little while in the 652 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:06,799 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties. And Dick Dale's thing was he wanted He 653 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,880 Speaker 1: was the first guy to really want enormous amounts of volume, 654 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 1: like more than just like let me amplify this so 655 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,399 Speaker 1: we can cut through. He wanted to blow people's ear 656 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,800 Speaker 1: drums out, and he actually accidentally blew out Leo Fender's 657 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 1: ear drum when they were working together trying to figure 658 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:26,320 Speaker 1: out this problem. Leo Fender bent down and said he 659 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 1: he thinks he hears a hum. He said, don't play 660 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,360 Speaker 1: for a minute. He literally put his ear on the 661 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 1: amplifier speaker, and no one knows what happened. If he 662 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,279 Speaker 1: bumped the guitar or something, but cranked all the way up, 663 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: which is how you would listen for a buzz or 664 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:43,719 Speaker 1: a hum. He literally destroyed one of Leo Fender's ear 665 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: so now he's down to one ear and one eye. Yeah. 666 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:50,400 Speaker 1: Leo Fender famously clutched his ears and went, cratch my ears, 667 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:54,319 Speaker 1: and they said, hey, we'll see you for that. It's 668 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,840 Speaker 1: like Marty McFly getting blown across the room and Doc Yeah, 669 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: Slan sort of is. But he was a huge, huge 670 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 1: influence on UM achieving volume for rock bands that would 671 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 1: come along later. I actually saw him in Athens, you know, uh, 672 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:13,279 Speaker 1: towards not towards the end of his life, because he 673 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:14,839 Speaker 1: just died a few years ago, but it was saw 674 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: him at forty. What it was amazing, that's awesome, but 675 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,880 Speaker 1: that was Yeah. Supposedly he inspired Jimmy Hendrix. Um, he 676 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 1: was like a guitar god himself, for sure, an overlooked one. 677 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,640 Speaker 1: I saw I think an article you sent that he's 678 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 1: not in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, which 679 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 1: is like the cookiest thing I've heard in a while. 680 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:36,760 Speaker 1: It's ridiculous. Yeah, so he's playing the strat the Beach 681 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,319 Speaker 1: Boys are playing Fenders. Uh, we have to shout out 682 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:44,879 Speaker 1: legendary session bass player Carol Kaye, a woman among men 683 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: who played the Fender Precision bass. Yeah. I mean, if 684 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 1: you think of just about any popular song from the 685 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:56,440 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties and sixties, there's probably about a chance that 686 00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:01,080 Speaker 1: Carol k played bass on it. Yeah, motown song, every 687 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,359 Speaker 1: Beach Boys up record like you name it. Wow, that's 688 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 1: really cool. I hadn't heard of her. Yeah, it was 689 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,360 Speaker 1: there's a great documentary called The wreck and Crew about 690 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,360 Speaker 1: these legendary studio musicians who basically played all that stuff. 691 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,800 Speaker 1: Like the Beach Boys didn't play their instruments on the records. 692 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,879 Speaker 1: What it was the Wrecking Crew. Be quiet, don't tell 693 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 1: me things like that. I'm sorry. Brian Wilson's a genius, 694 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,640 Speaker 1: but he played bass on stage. Carol k played bass 695 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 1: in the studio. Okay, so, um, Leo Fender, here's the 696 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:30,279 Speaker 1: thing about him. Remember we said that he was a 697 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:34,400 Speaker 1: tinker and engineer. Those guys don't translate to head of 698 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 1: highly successful and quickly growing company very well. They tend 699 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,680 Speaker 1: to get a little stressed out and overwhelmed. And that's 700 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:46,400 Speaker 1: exactly what happened to good old Leo. He apparently had ulcers, 701 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:48,800 Speaker 1: which has nothing to do with stress, as we learned 702 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,319 Speaker 1: thanks to the guinea pig scientists who drank a bunch 703 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,640 Speaker 1: of that bacteria to prove that it was caused by 704 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:59,719 Speaker 1: a bacteria rather than stress anyway, So he tried to 705 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 1: s l out in the early sixties, I believe, yeah, 706 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,640 Speaker 1: And um, I guess Randall didn't accept that. What do 707 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,760 Speaker 1: you why? Why not? I think they had been partners 708 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:13,080 Speaker 1: for so long at Randall. It seems like genuinely thought, like, 709 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:15,920 Speaker 1: you don't understand the value of this company asking for 710 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:21,400 Speaker 1: a million dollars, And so he started uh courting other companies. 711 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,960 Speaker 1: He courted Baldwin to sell the whole company. He courted 712 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 1: eventually CBS UH, CBS, CBS Records UH, and they ended 713 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,160 Speaker 1: up paying what would be the equivalent of a hundred 714 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,919 Speaker 1: and ten million dollars for the Fender Music Corporation, and 715 00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,840 Speaker 1: Don Randall and Leo Fender each got checks uh for 716 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,960 Speaker 1: five million bucks, which is about fifty something million dollars today. 717 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,840 Speaker 1: That's amazing. Wow. Don Randall was great, great kind of 718 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:50,120 Speaker 1: have in your corner. Huh. He really was, um and 719 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,840 Speaker 1: they were friends. And I think you know, Leo also 720 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:54,880 Speaker 1: had this. He was just always in bad health. He 721 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 1: had this and I had never heard of this, be 722 00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,319 Speaker 1: in a case of strep that apparently literally never went 723 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,120 Speaker 1: away like he had it for years and years and 724 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,440 Speaker 1: years and was always so a week sucks. But I 725 00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:09,319 Speaker 1: can't imagine having a chronic case of strip. Yeah, so 726 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 1: he I think part of the terms of the deal 727 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:13,600 Speaker 1: was there were two parts of the company that were 728 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,799 Speaker 1: brand new that didn't make any money. Actually lost money, 729 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:21,160 Speaker 1: which was the Fender Rhodes Electric piano, which everyone was like, 730 00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:23,080 Speaker 1: what the heck is this? Of course now it's amazing, 731 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,359 Speaker 1: and then the Fender Acoustic division, which really never did 732 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,840 Speaker 1: take off, like I mentioned earlier. And part of the 733 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,640 Speaker 1: deal was that they had to include those even though 734 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 1: they weren't profitable. As he said, fine, and then they 735 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,960 Speaker 1: had to keep Leo on for five years as a consultant, 736 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,480 Speaker 1: which they were happy to do. And I think he 737 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:41,520 Speaker 1: couldn't do anything else with anyone. I think he had 738 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:43,880 Speaker 1: a noncompete for ten years. But he would go on 739 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 1: later to start new companies even after that, and he 740 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:51,120 Speaker 1: died in Um. He lived a pretty pretty good life, 741 00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,280 Speaker 1: pretty good long life, got to tinker for a pretty 742 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,320 Speaker 1: long time, ended up being a wealthy man, and really 743 00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 1: kind of like became one of the people who's known 744 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:03,400 Speaker 1: as the inventor of the electric guitar. For better or worse, 745 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:07,720 Speaker 1: UM and Less Paul's story kind of took a slightly 746 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,880 Speaker 1: different turn um than Leo Fenders. Leo wanted to fade 747 00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,800 Speaker 1: into the background. That decision was made for Less Paul, 748 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:20,600 Speaker 1: not necessarily UM in conjunction with his wishes, his innovations 749 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:25,160 Speaker 1: with electric guitar. His and Leo fenders creation and introduction 750 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:30,080 Speaker 1: of electric guitars changed music like we saw Um created 751 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,200 Speaker 1: rock and roll or led the found created the foundation 752 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,840 Speaker 1: that rock and roll was built on. And all the 753 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,640 Speaker 1: kids said, we don't really like less Paul's music anymore. 754 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,799 Speaker 1: So this he created this monster that ended up swallowing 755 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:46,160 Speaker 1: him basically, Um, and he kind of faded off into uh, 756 00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,520 Speaker 1: into nothingness there for a little while. He was gonna 757 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:55,360 Speaker 1: become this obscure, incredibly wealthy guy. Yeah, he got divorced 758 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,360 Speaker 1: from Mary. Like I said earlier, Um, he ended up 759 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,800 Speaker 1: getting custody the kids, which was just crazy at the time, 760 00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:04,320 Speaker 1: and that was kind of the only thing she wanted. 761 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 1: It was really ugly, kind of public divorce. It was 762 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:11,080 Speaker 1: very sad. And he uh, you know, I mentioned the 763 00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,759 Speaker 1: Gibson SG earlier, the solid guitar they made that to 764 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,080 Speaker 1: be lighter and to kind of compete with these. That 765 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,480 Speaker 1: was originally called the Gibson Les Paul s G. And 766 00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:21,680 Speaker 1: eventually he didn't like it at all, so they took 767 00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:23,360 Speaker 1: his name off of it and then it was just 768 00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,000 Speaker 1: the Gibson s G. And Yeah, he just kind of 769 00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,719 Speaker 1: faded away. He he lived to be ninety two. I 770 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:30,759 Speaker 1: mean he had a great life, like you said, as 771 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,879 Speaker 1: a wealthy guy who he would always play these live 772 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,560 Speaker 1: kind of small club gigs in New York, and very 773 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,239 Speaker 1: famous people like Slash would stop through and everyone would 774 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:41,479 Speaker 1: come through to play with Less Paul and he would 775 00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,839 Speaker 1: regale people's stories. And it wasn't like a sideshow act. 776 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:49,280 Speaker 1: He just he couldn't fill large halls anymore. Basically. Yeah, 777 00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:52,319 Speaker 1: but he you know, he he got the recognition that 778 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,480 Speaker 1: he I'm sure liked. I mean, he seemed like a 779 00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:59,120 Speaker 1: pretty good guy as long as you weren't married to him. Um. 780 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:03,080 Speaker 1: But he Uh, he's known as like the guitar God's 781 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:07,040 Speaker 1: guitar god. I saw put somewhere that like, if you 782 00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:10,520 Speaker 1: are a guitar player, guitar hero, you look up till 783 00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,040 Speaker 1: Less Paul for what he did, not just with creating 784 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,279 Speaker 1: or helping to create or at least saying that he 785 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:18,000 Speaker 1: created the electric guitar, but also for all the other 786 00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:21,200 Speaker 1: innovations that he really did invent, like multi track recording 787 00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:24,719 Speaker 1: and sound sound you know. Yeah, and just to sort 788 00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:27,799 Speaker 1: of button up the story of the guitar itself, Uh, 789 00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:31,719 Speaker 1: they only made them in fifty nine sixty and I'm sorry, 790 00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:36,880 Speaker 1: fifty fifty nine and sixty made of these. And after 791 00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:40,600 Speaker 1: Muddy Waters is when people like Eric Clapton and Pete 792 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:46,160 Speaker 1: Townsend and uh like kind of any big English guitar 793 00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,520 Speaker 1: player at the time played less Paul's. Remember how seeing 794 00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:51,319 Speaker 1: at the very beginning in the first episode, how when 795 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,160 Speaker 1: Finder was up less Paul was down on the other 796 00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,239 Speaker 1: way around, the strat kind of changed the world. And 797 00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:58,520 Speaker 1: then the strat became kind of uncool for a little 798 00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,600 Speaker 1: while in the six stas when all these guys started 799 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:06,760 Speaker 1: playing the less Paul Jimmy page of course, and um, 800 00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:08,960 Speaker 1: people are like, wait a minute, we need less Paul's. 801 00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,799 Speaker 1: Like there was only of them, so they started making 802 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:17,960 Speaker 1: them again by popular demand, and I think sixty something, Yeah, 803 00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,600 Speaker 1: sixty eight, and they never went out of production again, Yeah, 804 00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:24,880 Speaker 1: sixty eight to start making him again. And since then 805 00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,200 Speaker 1: it's you know, there are plenty of people who have both, 806 00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,200 Speaker 1: but the questions sort of always unless you play like 807 00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:32,879 Speaker 1: an off like like a Rick and Bucker or something, 808 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,239 Speaker 1: people are always like you Gibson person or a or 809 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,759 Speaker 1: a Fender person, And I'm a Gibson person, always have been. 810 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,600 Speaker 1: That's well, less Paul ended up he died in two 811 00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:43,800 Speaker 1: does and nine, but he ended up being the only 812 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,759 Speaker 1: person to date who has been inducted in both the 813 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,400 Speaker 1: Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and the National Inventors 814 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,160 Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, which is pretty cool, pretty amazing. Great story. 815 00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,840 Speaker 1: That's it, the story of the solid body electric guitar, 816 00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,920 Speaker 1: as told through the eyes of Leo Fender. Unless Paul 817 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,239 Speaker 1: the end, thanks for indulging me on this. That was 818 00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:05,960 Speaker 1: a good one, man. It was nice to hear you 819 00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:11,000 Speaker 1: just so just jazzed like a precision jazz bass. Well, 820 00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:13,719 Speaker 1: after thirteen years, it was we finally tackled something. I 821 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:18,200 Speaker 1: knew something. Whatever. Well, if you want to know more 822 00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:21,560 Speaker 1: about the electric guitar, go pick one up, see what happens, 823 00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:24,960 Speaker 1: and maybe you'll start your own shredding rock band yourself. 824 00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,239 Speaker 1: And since I said shredding rock band, of course, it's 825 00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:33,279 Speaker 1: time for a listener mail. You know what, Let's not 826 00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:35,960 Speaker 1: do a listener mail today. And we we do this 827 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,960 Speaker 1: occasionally where we will not do listener mail and ask 828 00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:41,560 Speaker 1: people for a favor. We do this like once every 829 00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,560 Speaker 1: three years. Never been good at self marketing, but we 830 00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:47,680 Speaker 1: like to call out occasionally for people to go on 831 00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,960 Speaker 1: iTunes or your pod player of choice. Leave reviews, leave ratings. 832 00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,839 Speaker 1: It helps us out. I don't care how long we've 833 00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,960 Speaker 1: been around, we still need people saying positive, hopefully positive 834 00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:01,000 Speaker 1: things about us out there. So instead of listener mail, 835 00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,680 Speaker 1: just do us favorite telefriend about us, tell a relative, 836 00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:07,480 Speaker 1: tell a coworker that they might hate us or love us. 837 00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:11,120 Speaker 1: Well done. That's why we only do this at once 838 00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,640 Speaker 1: every three years. That's right, so clunky. Well, Like Chuck said, 839 00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:16,840 Speaker 1: we would love it if you left us a review, 840 00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,799 Speaker 1: specifically a positive one. But whatever, you know, speak from 841 00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:21,719 Speaker 1: your heart. How about that? That's what Josh and Chuck 842 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,160 Speaker 1: think you should do. And in the meantime, if you 843 00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:26,480 Speaker 1: want to get in touch with us as well as always, 844 00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:28,920 Speaker 1: you can send us an email to stuff podcast at 845 00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:34,600 Speaker 1: iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a 846 00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:38,000 Speaker 1: production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, 847 00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:41,200 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 848 00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:42,680 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.