1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie, and you're listening to stuff I've 2 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: never told to you. And today we're going to do 3 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: a bit of a round table in classic Sminty fashion. 4 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,479 Speaker 1: We are recording this the day after the Oscars, so 5 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:31,159 Speaker 1: we kind of missed the what we call on the 6 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: biz tent pole event. But we're gonna be talking about um, 7 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: women and gender in production in television production and movie production. 8 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: And I am joined by two fantastic people for this conversation. 9 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: I'm so excited. Could both of you introduce yourselves. My 10 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 1: name is Aaron. I am an onset dresser, uh sometimes 11 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: an assistant prop master or a proper person, and I 12 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: kind of got my set legs in the A D department. 13 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: But these days I'm home with a baby and I'm Angela. 14 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:07,679 Speaker 1: I am a director and worked as a first dady 15 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: for a long time, and I had a baby a 16 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: long time ago. My babies are old and we will 17 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: be talking about that, what it's like to be a 18 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: mom and a new mom in the industry. UM. And 19 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,479 Speaker 1: as I've mentioned on the show, outside of this whole 20 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: podcasting thing, I am also an actor, um and some 21 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 1: I've done some writing, so I've got some stories too. 22 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: I used to do cinema cinematography actually like lo lo 23 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 1: lo lo key, but I do have some experience in that. UM, 24 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,199 Speaker 1: and we're yeah, we're gonna be talking about what it's 25 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: like as a woman to work in production and all 26 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: kinds of things that tangentially come off with that. But 27 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: first let's look at some numbers, because there are a 28 00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: couple of reasons why we're talking about this. UM. This 29 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: office where we are recording from now is located in Atlanta, Georgia, 30 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 1: and due to some tax incentives passing two thousand eight 31 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: UM Georgia, Atlanta, it's kind of become the Hollywood of 32 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 1: the South. UM. Seriously, so much stuff is filmed here 33 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 1: every other day. I see those yellow signs that indicate 34 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: that something is filming, big stuff, small stuff, TV movies, 35 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:29,919 Speaker 1: all kinds of things. From seventeen to June, Georgia film 36 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,799 Speaker 1: and television production accounted for four hundred and fifty five 37 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: productions two point seven billion dollars in direct spending. And 38 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: that four fifty five is just the stuff that qualified 39 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 1: for the tax incentive, UM, which you have to spend 40 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 1: five hundred thousand dollars in the state for a thirty 41 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 1: percent tax credit. And worth noting is that two point 42 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: seven billion dollars number is a little squidgy and up 43 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: for debate. Some say it's probably half that, but in 44 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 1: either case it's a lot. Um. It doesn't take into 45 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: account tourism like we have us is that drive around now, 46 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,359 Speaker 1: it's like that's where The Walking Dead is filmed. Um 47 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: And the infrastructures that have been built up to support 48 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 1: the industry. According to the Motion Picture Association of America, 49 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: dred jobs and nearly four point six billion dollars in 50 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: total wages in Georgia has come about as results of 51 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: the entertainment industry here. But all of that said, there 52 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: are some pretty negative stats, shall we say, um, and 53 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: to reiterate, women do make up fifty percent of movie gobers. 54 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: We do not see that reflected on screen in women 55 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: made up of protagonist, and we also don't see it 56 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: reflected behind the scenes. Statistics from report called Celluloid Ceiling 57 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: found that of the top one hundred grossing films, women 58 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: made up four percent of directors are possibly eight percent, 59 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: but either way not even breaking double digits. Only five 60 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: women have been nominated for Best Director at the Oscars, 61 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 1: and only one woman has one, only four were led 62 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: by a woman of color. Female directors also faced what 63 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: is called a financial cliff and movies and TV. They're 64 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: more likely to be involved in smaller projects as opposed 65 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: to bigger budget productions. The same is true of solo 66 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: female protagonist. I also found this stat interesting. Male characters 67 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 1: were more likely than females to have work related goals 68 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 1: for two percent versus female characters were more likely than 69 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 1: males to have goals related to their personal lives versus thirteent. 70 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: Women make up fifteen percent of the writers, only three 71 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: percent of cinematographers. Only one woman has ever been nominated 72 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 1: for the cinematography category with the oscars, eighteen percent of producers, 73 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: eighteen percent of executive producers, fourteen percent of editors. Those 74 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 1: are some disheartening depressing stats. Movies with at least one 75 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 1: female director were more likely to employ a diverse work 76 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: for and if we look at TV, according to the 77 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: u c l A and seen quote, only of all creators, directors, writers, producers, 78 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: executive producers, editors, and directors of photography working on broadcast, network, 79 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 1: cable and streaming programs, we're women of the programs considered 80 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: had no women directors of photography percent had no women directors, 81 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: seventy six percent had no women editors, seventy percent had 82 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: no women creators, had no women writers, had no women producers, 83 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: and had no women executive producers. So that's kind of 84 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: where we are. Yeah, with your experience in the industry, 85 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: both of you, does this I mean, is this what 86 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: you see? You reflected projects that you've worked on. Yes, 87 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: it's a very certain I worked mostly and I worked 88 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: mostly in television, so that those are all numbers for features. 89 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: I know that the directors Gill does numbers um for 90 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 1: episode of television to percent female. Um, I'm a black woman. 91 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: I think it was two. Every year jumps between two 92 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:11,119 Speaker 1: to three percent women of color. Part of the behind 93 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 1: the scenes things we have going on now, too, is 94 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 1: that the the fight for equality for women sometimes it's 95 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: not as intersectional as it needs to be and turns 96 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 1: into a like I see I'll be in the group 97 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: of women that are fighting for equality, and then somebody 98 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 1: will say something about, well, these men of color are 99 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 1: getting more whatever, and then it turns into like a 100 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: It's like it needs to be intersectional in order for 101 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:36,679 Speaker 1: it to be successful, and it feels like the people 102 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: who when women win that it feels like white women 103 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 1: are the ones that are women winning. So when you 104 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: see the numbers, it's mostly white women too. So I 105 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: think that's something that's important that we talk about, is 106 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: not just how many women, but how many women of 107 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: color are breaking through because there's a lot of us 108 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: out there too, absolutely know and trying to trying to 109 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: do it, and there's you know, I think, UM, a 110 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:02,799 Speaker 1: lot of the access programs that they have in television 111 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: have now started to branch off into future films, which 112 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: is great, but I think there needs to be more 113 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: efforts below the line because editors and writers are the 114 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: ones who move up to become director. A lot of 115 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: times can move up to become directors UM dps. You know, 116 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: for this is for episode of television that the top 117 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: three categories of people that move up to you know, 118 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: as first time directors for reposide of TV are DPS, 119 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: editors and writers. And if most of those are white 120 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: men M and n A d S, I'm sorry for 121 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: st d S UM. And if most of them are 122 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: white men, then it's like then, yes, we need to 123 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: get more women and people of color in there. But 124 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: it's like getting them into the pipeline is where it's important. 125 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: And if people like Aaron are bullied, for lack of 126 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: a better word, out of a department because you're because 127 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: of sexism or because of racism, then then you've lost 128 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: that person. And I think that's a lot of the 129 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: complaints that I hear from women of all shades is that, well, 130 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: I it's fine for this, me too, but I've already 131 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: left the business. It's fine that this is finally coming 132 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: to light, but I already missed. You know, now I'm 133 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 1: sixty years old and missed my chance. Or you know, 134 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: what can we do? I think it needs to be 135 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: not just oh we need more people that are up 136 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: at these top level levels. I think we need people 137 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: on all floors of more women and more people of 138 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: colors in order to get a more diverse base of people. 139 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: Absolutely yeah, um when I mean my experience has been 140 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,079 Speaker 1: in the in my world of acting like I have encountered. 141 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: I have lost jobs because I turned down un wanted advances, 142 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: and I it breaks my heart because I think of 143 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: people who think this is this is my only chance. 144 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 1: I have to go along with this, and then I 145 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: guarantee you they probably didn't get it anyway. Um, and 146 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: just yeah, have in this your career impacted by by 147 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 1: harassment and by bullying, and um it maintains the status quo. 148 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 1: And it just really makes me angry that that you, 149 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,959 Speaker 1: you know, you're ending up where perhaps you you didn't think, 150 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: but not for a good reason, like someone basically forced 151 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: you out of a career choice. Yeah. Yeah, And it's 152 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: also made me kind of wary of accepting jobs with men. 153 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 1: I don't know. I tend to say yes to the 154 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: jobs where my superiors are women, or my superiors are 155 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 1: men that I know to be good people who um, 156 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: you know, are not sexist and who believe in me 157 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:02,559 Speaker 1: and think that there's not a thing that I can't 158 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 1: do that any guy could do, you know, Um, that 159 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: are empowering. So yeah, yeah, I've I've been called all 160 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: kinds of names for nothing that I even did at work. 161 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: This was because I wouldn't take this person, um partying 162 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: on a weekend. Ooh yeah, I got fired for it 163 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: and it was all over text. Um. I actually wound 164 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,839 Speaker 1: up with my first onset dressing gig right after that 165 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: on your show, Angela. Yeah, which was that was that? Yeah? 166 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: It was and it was just it felt so good 167 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: to go from that to like seeing you on set. 168 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: And I remember I like, I like shed like some 169 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 1: tears of happiness. I was just so like it felt 170 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: like I was just coming home and I was safe. 171 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: And my one of my dear friends who's kind of 172 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 1: big sister of mine. Um, she and her sister both 173 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: worked as set decorators for a long time and now 174 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: they have their own production company and they are, um, 175 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: they're trying to do more producing and directing themselves. But uh, yeah, 176 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: I I was with them for years as their onset dresser, 177 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: and uh it was a really good place to be. 178 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: And onset dressing is a is a job that a 179 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: lot of people think of as being kind of a 180 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: moon's job because you're doing a lot of how you 181 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:35,439 Speaker 1: lifting and working with a lot of tools and you know, 182 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,559 Speaker 1: climbing ladders and all that kind of stuff. But um, 183 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 1: I wound up getting hired repeatedly, not just by them, 184 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: but by by by good men, because um, I was 185 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,679 Speaker 1: smarter than a lot of the burly guys that could, 186 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: you know, probably lift more than I could. I I 187 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,319 Speaker 1: knew how a set worked, and I learned how a 188 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 1: set worked from people like Angela. You know I could, 189 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: I I was smart. So, UM, I really think that 190 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: uh people need to start looking beyond the braun and 191 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: realizing that women have a lot going on that make 192 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 1: us a very integral, important part of a set. Women 193 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: can see past the hubris and see past the uh 194 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: making the shot the number one priority. Women are able 195 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: to see that these are people, but these are people 196 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: that are working, that are trying to make this happen 197 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: as a team, and the people that make the movie 198 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 1: are the most important part of it. So I also 199 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: wanted to have a friend come in who is a 200 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: trans filmmaker, and she has the most interesting point of view. 201 00:12:55,960 --> 00:13:00,839 Speaker 1: She started filmmaking UM when she was still presenting as 202 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: a man, and now she's presenting as a woman. So 203 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: she's told me that the difference in treatment that she 204 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: has gotten from back then to now. My only comment 205 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:17,079 Speaker 1: is that when you said women can see past the Huberists, 206 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: to me, I think it's a personality because there's men 207 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: that are out there that are just as is aware 208 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: that it's not we're not saving lives, We're just making 209 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: a movie. So let's keep half, but let's put on 210 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: a show kids but we don't have to like do 211 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: anything stupid or beat people up or you know, even 212 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: as a director, I'm like, you know, could I do 213 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: another take? Sure? Will? I know? Because we all need 214 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: to go home right, right right, And just because I 215 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: have we're budgeted for twelve hours and it's only been 216 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: eleven and a half. It's still been eleven and a 217 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:58,959 Speaker 1: half hours. Let's go, you know. So to me, I 218 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: feel that with this one of the advantages of this 219 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: me too movement, which you know, originally started with just 220 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: about sexual harassment, has now branched into just humane treatment 221 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: of human beings, where people are recognizing that you just 222 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: can't be an asked you know, like sorry, you just 223 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: can't be a jerk, you know, all the time and 224 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: expect people to say, oh, well, they're a genius at 225 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: what they do, so it's okay, Now we don't care 226 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: how much of a genius you are. You have to 227 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: treat people with respect. So the fact that that now 228 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: is seems to be the default is great. Like I 229 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: was the first a d on a show called Atlanta 230 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: which Donald Glover and everybody seems knows about it, right, 231 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: and they first one like the Golden Globe and they 232 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: got all this stuff, and you know, they get the Emmy, 233 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, that's nice. But like like 234 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: Donald brought the Emmy to work so people could take 235 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: pictures of it, which was he literally just left it 236 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: out on a table and then put for the Graham 237 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: and I had to go in his office or something, 238 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: and I was like, hey, I just have to tell you, 239 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: like the Emmy's cool and everything. But in twenty at 240 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: that point might have been the beIN like twenty three 241 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: years ago. In twenty three years as being on sets, 242 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: this is the only set I've never been mansplained on, 243 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 1: the only one. And this is a show about dudes 244 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: that's run by dudes. I'm usually the only woman in 245 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: the scout van unless the set decorator is along for 246 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: the ride. Um, it's all dudes all day long. And 247 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: I say, hey, we should do this, and they say okay, 248 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: And there's no second guessing or no wondering whether I 249 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: know what I talk I'm talking about. And obviously the producer, 250 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: if they had won a way in, they'll do what 251 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: they want to do. But you even you know, as women, 252 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: we know the difference between asking a question or checking 253 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: up on whether or not I know what I'm talking about, 254 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: or not trusting that I know what I'm talking about. 255 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: I had. I had trust on that show that I 256 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 1: was never shown in any other show before. And and 257 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: it's funny, like we did the pilot for that was 258 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: almost entirely female. A D staff for second and second second, 259 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: we're off females all of the p as, but one 260 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: more female and and a mix of pete, women of 261 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: color and white women in terms of the mix of people. 262 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: And at the end, people are as a pilot, they're like, 263 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: that's the this is the best most efficient run set 264 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: we've ever been on. And I was like, this is 265 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: the first time we've been allowed to just do it. 266 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: That's why, Yeah, you know. And it wasn't like I 267 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: was like, I'm going to have an all female crew. 268 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 1: It was, oh, who's my favorite? Second second a D? 269 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: And I called Rondo. I called Rondo and I got 270 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: up who else is my favorite? Second? Second? I call 271 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: and everybody that I was, my favorites that I always 272 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: called first all were available. So it wasn't that I've 273 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: had this secret plan to make it all female. I 274 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: just called the people that I like working with that 275 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: I know worked well with me, because again, like I've 276 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: worked with good, really good second A d s that 277 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: were male that I would have to like not handle 278 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: because I don't deal with that kind of crap, but 279 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: that I would have to check because they were being 280 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 1: mean to some of the other people in the department. 281 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:08,400 Speaker 1: Or they would say Okay, if I said I could 282 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: do this, they'd be like, they would say, oh, but 283 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: we should do this, and I'm like, no, do this, 284 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: and they go okay, and I would have to say okay, 285 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: say say okay one more time and see and see 286 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: which one of us still has a job, right, you know, 287 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: So having to deal with that, it's just you know, 288 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 1: Roonda says okay, then I know it's just Randa being Rhonda, 289 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: and it's not kind of sexy. Ronda is allowed to 290 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: do that too, because she's she's good. She is. Yeah, 291 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 1: you're right, I should. There are some absolutely absolutely phenomenal 292 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 1: men that um that we work with. I've yet to 293 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: meet a key grip in Atlanta, I don't like. I 294 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: don't know, there's something about the Atlantic Grips that are 295 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 1: just there's there's something just absolutely lovely and delightful, and 296 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: even if they're not like delightful. They're just just good guys. 297 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: The grip departments I found, Yes, the gathers too, affors 298 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: to Cornwall, we really do have a wonderful family of 299 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: people here. And Atlanta. Yeah, I mean, but I also 300 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: think Atlanta because I was in l A for about 301 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: twelve years of working, and I think in l A 302 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: it was like people have been doing it enough that 303 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,440 Speaker 1: it's like just the job. I think the business here 304 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 1: is new enough that people are like, we get to 305 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: work on a movie today, Like even if they've been 306 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: doing it for a long time, there's a joy of 307 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,199 Speaker 1: isn't it cool that we're doing this and not like 308 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 1: working at McDonald's, you know, or whatever being accountant or 309 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 1: whatever jobby job other people have. Like there's still a 310 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 1: joy to it. And that's why I remember hearing a 311 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: story back when we first got the Incynemas, when people 312 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 1: were first in l A. People were first flooding the 313 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: place where some you know, kacky, mean screamy DP yelled 314 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: at one of the guys on the set in a 315 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: very disrespectful way in the grip was like, all right, 316 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,719 Speaker 1: we're gonna just take our bong go home by guys, 317 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: and all the groups just left, and I was like, 318 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 1: that's the difference in Atlanta. In l A, they would 319 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: have yelled back and it would have just been one 320 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: of those sets that had a bunch of testesterone in here. 321 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: They're like, we're gonna take up all and go home. 322 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:10,640 Speaker 1: Go find someone who's gonna put up with that, because 323 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 1: we're not going to be treated like that. I did that, 324 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: I do too, I have, so I feel like I 325 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 1: should I should give credit to at least one man 326 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: that I've worked with, because I have had some amazing, 327 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 1: amazing UM experiences working with men that really did care 328 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,199 Speaker 1: about me and treated me like a daughter or a 329 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:38,120 Speaker 1: sister or a true friend. And uh and I've had 330 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 1: some really good encounters with UM with with male celebrities 331 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: as well. And the one that pops into my head 332 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 1: is Anthony Hopkins. I think he's a walking saint. He's 333 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: an earth angel UM that is a person that really 334 00:19:56,280 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: knows how to stand up for the crew. That was because, 335 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: you know, besides making a good movie, that was his 336 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 1: main goal was was supporting the crew. UM. The first day, 337 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:09,919 Speaker 1: he would come in with a call sheet with his 338 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 1: assistant and he would go around and personally introduce himself 339 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: to every single person on the crew, from the additional 340 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 1: p A to to transpo to you know, the prop 341 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: for everybody, everybody, and he memorized every single person's name, 342 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 1: everybody's and uh. He would hold meetings saying, I want 343 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 1: you all to know that the crew is doing an 344 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 1: amazing job. And he talked about each department and how 345 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:42,679 Speaker 1: they were doing and he said, but you know what, 346 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,880 Speaker 1: as actors, we need to step it up. We need 347 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: to tighten up and be more professional. And then you know, 348 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: at the end of the movie, he held a meeting 349 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 1: and he said, in front of the producers, I want 350 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: you all to know that there were no producers on 351 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: this movie. The crew produced this movie and I could 352 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: not be any more grateful to work with all of you. 353 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 1: That was his last day of shooting. But yeah, just 354 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: a wonderful guy, always looking out for um the well 355 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 1: being of others. So I had to I have to 356 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: put that in there, just to give credit where credits to. 357 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: You know, there are some wonderful, wonderful men out there 358 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: in this film industry. It's true. And I mean lately 359 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,439 Speaker 1: all we hear about is the not so good ones. 360 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: Um and one of the things that um, we kind 361 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: of touched on throughout this episode is this the issue 362 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: of like me too and harassment. And something that I 363 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: have encountered is that I've worked on indie movies. Plenty 364 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: of them were wonderful, but some of them were not. 365 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 1: And there's no like HR that you can go to. 366 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: There's no one to really advocate on your behalf, so 367 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 1: you sort of have to either find a way to 368 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 1: deal with it, leave or or maybe talk to someone 369 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: else that that can that can help you. But that 370 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:13,360 Speaker 1: is something that is definitely a problem on film sets 371 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: and TV sets and in general in production. Um, is 372 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 1: that something that either of you have experienced. Well, I 373 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,479 Speaker 1: can tell you, even on a big budget movie, if 374 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,640 Speaker 1: you have an incident that does go up to HR. 375 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: And this was pre me too movement, it doesn't necessarily 376 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:36,640 Speaker 1: always help you anyway. Um, the incident I had been 377 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: talking about that kind of bullied me out of that department. Um, 378 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: it did. It went all the way up to the 379 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: HR department of a very big studio. I had legal 380 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: documents sent to me offering me my job back, like 381 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: I would want to work with this person again. But UM, 382 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 1: it was a big thing I had people producers telling 383 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: me that they were absolutely horrified that this happened. That 384 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,199 Speaker 1: they have daughters in the film industry, and they know 385 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: how much harder we work, and and it is true. 386 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 1: We really have to prove ourselves, um, every second of 387 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: the day. And yeah, so I mean all this stuff 388 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 1: went down, I wasn't. Uh. I had people that came 389 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: out saying that they were protecting me by UM only 390 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 1: allowing me to speak to certain people, UM, with their supervision. 391 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: And I was really naive back then. UM, and I 392 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 1: believed that, UM, it had been kind of a a 393 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: long thing coming. UM. I've been getting all kinds of 394 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: texts that were about having threesome with this man and UM, 395 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 1: haven't I seen his IMDb? Don't I want to take 396 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 1: my career to the next level. Um. He would use racial, 397 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: misogynistic UM and homophobic slurs a lot, which made me 398 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: feel really uncomfortable. And this is this is all over text, 399 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: and UM, the movie hadn't even started yet. This is 400 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 1: the other part about it hadn't even started. I've worked 401 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 1: with this guy for maybe three weeks on UM on 402 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,120 Speaker 1: a movie that came through Atlanta a long time ago, 403 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: for a couple of weeks and he thought, for some reason, 404 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 1: because I have tattoos and I play drums and punk 405 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 1: rock bands, that he could talk to me like this 406 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 1: and UM make all these you know, like sexual comments 407 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: and that kind of thing. And he would ask me 408 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: where to find blow, where to find prostitutes. Why he 409 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:57,440 Speaker 1: thinks I would know, I have no idea. Um, so yeah, 410 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 1: so he started making me feel very uncomfor truble and 411 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: kept nagging me and nagging me and nagging me go 412 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: pick him up in my car, take him partying. At 413 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 1: the time, I had a boyfriend and I was also 414 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 1: in a band, but I didn't want to. I mean, 415 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: every everything in me was going, no, this is not 416 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: going to end well. Um. And finally I said, you know, 417 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: I can't. I'm going to bed and I have banned 418 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: practice in the morning. And that's when the slew of 419 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:29,919 Speaker 1: texts came through, calling me and telling me, you know, 420 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: my to dry to be on his team and uh, 421 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: she's you're no professional. Um, all kinds of threats about 422 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: my career, and UM, I didn't know what to do. 423 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: I cried a lot. UM talked to um some of 424 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: my my, my big sisters in the industry, and handed 425 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:56,400 Speaker 1: it over to my union and then I got called 426 00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: into the office. Everybody hid, and it is weird. They 427 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 1: cleared the offices out, had everybody hide in their respective offices, 428 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: went straight to the producer's office with my phone with 429 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: the text to prove that I hadn't fabricated them, and 430 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 1: that's when they told me how sorry they were, and um, 431 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 1: you know, I said, I just I want to make 432 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: sure that this doesn't happen to anybody else. Oh, yes, 433 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,639 Speaker 1: we're just horrified, you know we I have a daughter 434 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: that works in the film business. I know how hard 435 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 1: it is for for women. I was then told by 436 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: somebody who was supposed to be protecting me that if 437 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:39,959 Speaker 1: I went any further with this that I would be 438 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: blackballed from working for this particular big studio, and also 439 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,120 Speaker 1: told that there is no lawyer that I could ever 440 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 1: hire that would ever be able to stand up to 441 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: the lawyers at this big studio. And there was nothing 442 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 1: in me that was thinking I want to sue. I 443 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: wanted to get money for this. All I wanted was 444 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:06,439 Speaker 1: for this guy to not work on this show, and 445 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,199 Speaker 1: I wanted him to learn a lesson and not do 446 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: this to anybody else. Well, he kept his job, and 447 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: my friend who was to be the UM, who was 448 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:22,439 Speaker 1: the assistant Prome master UM a woman. I was forbid 449 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 1: from talking to her, and I was so young and 450 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 1: naive and stupid then like I had like what um, 451 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: So I didn't talk to her for months and and 452 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: this person wound up making her life a living hell. UM. 453 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: They had a man of color come on and he 454 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: kept asking him where to find cocaine and and prostitutes. 455 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: My friend, who was a woman who stayed on the show, 456 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: quit with like one week left because he was just 457 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,920 Speaker 1: so horrible to her. UM. Other women I know that 458 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: came in unknowingly, you know, UH wound up being harassed 459 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: and traumatized. And this man continues to work. And the 460 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: weird thing is that after all of that, he recommends 461 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: me to people. So this day I don't know why 462 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: or what he's doing or what kind of mind game 463 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: this is UM. And then I, uh, I was dumb 464 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 1: enough to work for his brother on a different show 465 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: who told me he was nothing like his brother. And 466 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 1: this man went and had his own backhanded way of 467 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: absolutely ruining my life for three months and messed with 468 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: my my paychecks would have paychecks that came back with 469 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: UM a way lower rate. And when I started with 470 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: I had my position messed with. I had been told 471 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: that I would be assistant prop master after Um the 472 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: prop master got fired by the producer ers, and also 473 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: there had been a big safety incident that happened UM 474 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: and a lot of people left because of that, and 475 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: I wanted to leave too, and UM they said we'll 476 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: make you the assistant prop master. And I think it 477 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,239 Speaker 1: was just because there was no continuity without me, So 478 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 1: they had me as assistant prop master for a week. 479 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: I brought in one of my great friends who's a 480 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: prop person and production designer and now she's working as 481 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: a producer sometimes and screenwriter. Had her come in and 482 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 1: we crushed it for a week, and then all of 483 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: a sudden, I find out he's bringing in this guy 484 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: from l A because he can't find anybody. It reminded 485 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: me of your story, Angela. He can't find anybody in Atlanta. 486 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: So UM, this guy comes in and immediately things are weird. 487 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: He shows up with assistant prop master on his badge. 488 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 1: He's on you know, on set, and we're both like 489 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: running the props on set. It's a the assistant prop 490 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: master's job to run set, and the third kind of 491 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: does a lot of prep and you know, UM keeps 492 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: the truck and you know typically UM so slowly but surely, Uh, 493 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: this guy UM kind of took over my job. My 494 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 1: pay got lowered. The prop master would come by in 495 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: a big group of people when I was doing my 496 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 1: job and say something like you got a zip on 497 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: your face? Um, or he would come and he would 498 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 1: hug me a little bit too long and tell me 499 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: all these people are crazy when I would ask him 500 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 1: why my paycheck got lowered. So anyway, I decided never 501 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: to work with this guy again. My friend, who's a guy, 502 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: went and worked with him on the next show and 503 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: decided to bring on an additional prop person who's a woman. 504 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: And this man grabbed my friend and said, you never 505 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: bring women on to our crew. I hate working with women. Yeah, 506 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: I I, so I decided I never I never wanted 507 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: to let anybody make my life miserable for that long again. 508 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: And I never wanted to let anybody make me cry again. 509 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: And I would never again not stand up for myself 510 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 1: or for anybody else UM who's put in that position. 511 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: And I'm grateful to the me to movement. It has 512 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: been very triggering. You know, I've experienced all kinds of um, 513 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: sexism and uncomfortable situations, so many that I can't even 514 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: remember all of them. Um. But uh, but I think 515 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: it's time to be strong and to stand up and 516 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: stand up for one another. And if you know that 517 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:58,959 Speaker 1: somebody has hurt someone else, don't go work for them, 518 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,720 Speaker 1: you know, Um, don't hire them, don't hire them, don't 519 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: enable them. Um. But unfortunately, there is a lot of 520 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: fear because people want to keep their jobs, people need 521 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 1: to work, people need to you know, feed their kids. Yeah. UM, 522 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 1: we have a lot more to talk about in this 523 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: in this conversation, but first we have a quick break 524 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 1: for a word from our sponsor. H we're back, thank 525 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: you sponsor. So let's get back to this. It's so 526 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: unfortunate that, uh, this is that this is something that 527 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: was kind of just accepted and expected for a while. 528 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: I'm glad that we're talking about it more, but it's 529 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: sort of like this has been going on forever. I 530 00:32:53,480 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: can't believe when people are shocked. I'm like, are you shocked? Really? Um. 531 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 1: But so there's a lot of things that uh in 532 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 1: that in that conversation that I wanted to go back to, 533 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: and one is, UM, so you you're both moms working 534 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: in this industry. UM, and I am not not a mom, 535 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: So I was wondering if you could share what that 536 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: has been like. UM, my oldest is ten. I know 537 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 1: Aaron's a newer mom than I am. Um. You know, 538 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: women are kind of sold this, the whole myths of 539 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: we can do everything and you can't. And I think 540 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: if you go in with your eyes open that you 541 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: can't do everything, then you'll be much happier. I think 542 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: the women who drive themselves crazy are the ones who 543 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 1: try to do everything and then get mad. Um. Like you, 544 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: time is a pie, So you can't spend all your 545 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 1: time at work and all your time with your kids. 546 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: So if you spend all your time at work, you're 547 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: not spending time with your kid. And your kid is 548 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 1: only going to be, you know, three years old in 549 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: fifty five days, you know, for that one moment, and 550 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 1: then he's going to be three years old and fifty 551 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: six days, you know, So for both you know, I'm 552 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: lucky that I have a supportive partner and that we 553 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: agreed that one of us would try to stay home. 554 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 1: So this business being freelance. My husband works in reality television. Um, 555 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,719 Speaker 1: we try to take jobs with minimal overlap so that 556 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,720 Speaker 1: both of us aren't working at the same time and 557 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: until the kids are kind of old enough two manage 558 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 1: without us needing to be there all the time, which 559 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: probably keep that rhythm. I think it's important. Like there 560 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,320 Speaker 1: are job opportunities have had to turn down because I 561 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 1: didn't couldn't be away from the kids. Um, I'm lucky 562 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: that'll out of the directing jobs I've gotten have been here. 563 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: But like like in a week, I'm on a plane 564 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: to Atlanta, I mean to Los Angeles for a week 565 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 1: and a half for another job. Um, So I try 566 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 1: to only take jobs like there's another job that they're like, hey, 567 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,319 Speaker 1: this show was really interested in you. But I would 568 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 1: be gone for a month and a half that I 569 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: would have to say no to, so I would probably 570 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:21,319 Speaker 1: be I would definitely be much further faster in my 571 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: career if I did not have kids. But that's a 572 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 1: swap that I went in with my eyes open knowing 573 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:30,800 Speaker 1: was going to happen. So I have to be okay 574 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:32,839 Speaker 1: with that, and I'm okay with that. I'm still having 575 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: a good time. Um, and my kids are you know. 576 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 1: And I think part of it too is this business 577 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 1: is not sustainable if both parents If I in my opinion, 578 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 1: if both parents are working full time and you have 579 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,359 Speaker 1: the kids that are young, it just does not work. 580 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: Somebody has to be the one who works less or 581 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,839 Speaker 1: doesn't work at all to be able to make sure 582 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,239 Speaker 1: your kids aren't crazy because either paying even the time now, 583 00:35:58,160 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 1: or you take the time when they're nineteen and they 584 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:01,799 Speaker 1: have to go to rehab like there's or you know, 585 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,280 Speaker 1: or have whatever other problems that they could have because 586 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,280 Speaker 1: no one was there making sure that they felt. Um 587 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 1: like all the emotional milestones that are important for kids 588 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:12,839 Speaker 1: or that's what parents need to be there for. All 589 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,239 Speaker 1: the educational stuff school can cover whether they get too 590 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:19,439 Speaker 1: plus two, but the emotional milestones are our job. That's 591 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 1: my opinion. Yeah, I agree. Um, any day that I 592 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 1: go to work is a day I do not see 593 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 1: my daughter at all. Um, she's twenties six months old. Um, 594 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 1: so she's just getting into her a little terrible two's, 595 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 1: but you know she is, she's all about mom right now. 596 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 1: And UM, I completely agree with what you said. Like 597 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,759 Speaker 1: you can either put in the time now or put 598 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,720 Speaker 1: in the time when they're older and you know they 599 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 1: need some help because you know, mom wasn't there, or 600 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 1: both of their parents weren't there. Because I went back 601 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,800 Speaker 1: to work when my oldest was six months. Oh yeah, 602 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 1: but my husband was home. Also, It's that's somebody was 603 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 1: home that was familiar, that he had stability and could 604 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 1: look in his eyes and say I'm glad you're here 605 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 1: and make sure that everything was okay. Do I wish 606 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,000 Speaker 1: I could have stayed home, Yeah, sure, But I also 607 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 1: really love my job. And I also feel that it's 608 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,000 Speaker 1: really important that my kids have both been to set 609 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,759 Speaker 1: to see what mom does so they understand that when 610 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: I'm going I'm not just going into some like Shelby yucky, horrible. 611 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:28,759 Speaker 1: Like this is a book of mom kicking ass out here, 612 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,839 Speaker 1: because you need to understand that this is how we 613 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 1: get you want to PlayStation. This is how we got 614 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 1: the PlayStation. Mom out here kicking ass on set is 615 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: how we got to PlayStation. You want to, you know, 616 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,319 Speaker 1: go all these fancy places like Mom has to go 617 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 1: to work to do that. You know, So if you 618 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 1: want me to stay home in big cookies, I can, 619 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 1: but not this week but we can do it next week. 620 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 1: You know, we can do that. So they you know, 621 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:52,800 Speaker 1: and they hate it. They're like, oh, you gotta go 622 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 1: to work. They get mad because there is I mean, 623 00:37:55,520 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 1: even though you know there's gender differences is and how 624 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,359 Speaker 1: but there's that's not always according to gender, but there's 625 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:07,240 Speaker 1: differences in how each parent parents and whatever that parent 626 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,400 Speaker 1: isn't there, whatever that parent brings is not there. So 627 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,799 Speaker 1: it's not that they need their mommy like it's a 628 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 1: female thing as much as it is they need me 629 00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,920 Speaker 1: because there's specific things that I do that Rob doesn't 630 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 1: and there's things that he does that I don't do. Um, 631 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 1: you know, like they would never you know, make it 632 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: to the skateboard park if it was up to me, 633 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,040 Speaker 1: because I can't skate, you know, and I don't know 634 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:30,359 Speaker 1: how to show him, and I'd be like, no, you're 635 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,479 Speaker 1: gonna cry. So that's like something they do with their dad, 636 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 1: which is awesome, but you know that I'm taking him 637 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: to the Puppets show. I don't know that he would 638 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 1: be that nerding out on puppets or you know that 639 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,920 Speaker 1: kind of thing or you know, or me like I 640 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:44,879 Speaker 1: bought like a plastic pool and got it so the 641 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:46,960 Speaker 1: little one could jump off the deck into this like 642 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 1: one ft. You know, it's just stupid stuff like that. 643 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:53,799 Speaker 1: So that's why I think it's nice to have both 644 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,239 Speaker 1: of us in the mix, but at least, you know, 645 00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 1: but one of us guarding the ship until the kids 646 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,799 Speaker 1: are kind of old enough to not take care of themselves, 647 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 1: but to only need to check in, I really know 648 00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 1: if everything's okay, you know what I mean, Like my 649 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:09,520 Speaker 1: ten year old, if it was if I didn't have 650 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:11,719 Speaker 1: the six year old, I would feel more comfortable with 651 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:13,000 Speaker 1: my ten year old if we had to get like 652 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:14,960 Speaker 1: someone like a nanny that was with him after school, 653 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:16,880 Speaker 1: because I can I can check in with him and 654 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 1: see how he's doing and be okay. But when there's six, 655 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:23,600 Speaker 1: they don't know what's going on, right right, So like 656 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 1: when I got pregnant, I didn't tell anybody. I was 657 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,520 Speaker 1: like eight months pregnant. I got a job that I 658 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,280 Speaker 1: came in and I literally wore like a baggy shirt 659 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:35,239 Speaker 1: and like scarves and like at the and and it's 660 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 1: funny because I showed it was one was a commercial 661 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,719 Speaker 1: I showed up on and they're like, are you pregnant? 662 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:41,520 Speaker 1: And I was like, because for the interview. I showed 663 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 1: up and I like leaned over in the like I 664 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:45,839 Speaker 1: was interested, but it was leaning over to the shirt 665 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 1: with billow and cover it my stomach. And then when 666 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:49,320 Speaker 1: I showed it for the job, I'm like, when you 667 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 1: can't fire me now, right? But in their minds it's like, well, Angela, 668 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 1: what can Angela do or not do? And then they 669 00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,120 Speaker 1: make the choice for you. So to me, that's what 670 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 1: needs to change. But also I think that comes back 671 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 1: to just being female. Of people are used to what 672 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,719 Speaker 1: they're used to. And sometimes it's not overt sexism, like 673 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:11,960 Speaker 1: the guy who says I don't like women on my set. 674 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's subtle because you've never seen a woman first 675 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 1: a d When you do see one, there's something that 676 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,279 Speaker 1: doesn't sit right. It's like if you went to take 677 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 1: your car in to get like a major overhaul to 678 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,839 Speaker 1: the engine, and like the woman who came out was 679 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,120 Speaker 1: you know, was a was a black woman that was 680 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,080 Speaker 1: like thirty years old and says, okay, hi, I'm going 681 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:34,279 Speaker 1: to be the one who's going to fix your car. 682 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:39,520 Speaker 1: Everybody for a second would go, wait, you work here? 683 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,520 Speaker 1: Are you not the receptionist person here? Because it's not 684 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:44,360 Speaker 1: what they're used to seeing. She could have grown up, 685 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,359 Speaker 1: she could be an engineer that builds cars for a living, 686 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,800 Speaker 1: and no one would care. In the back of their mind, 687 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,319 Speaker 1: the first thing is, wait, this doesn't look like the 688 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,319 Speaker 1: big Italian guy with greasy fingers, you know, or what 689 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:58,239 Speaker 1: they're used to sing fixing cars. Right, So once they 690 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,480 Speaker 1: get used to seeing it, then they're just used to it. 691 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,120 Speaker 1: Then they don't like I don't get as much pushback. 692 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,359 Speaker 1: I still get a pushback, don't get me wrong, but 693 00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:08,759 Speaker 1: I don't get as much now as I did in 694 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,479 Speaker 1: the beginning, where people would assume I was like hair, 695 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,160 Speaker 1: I didn't like that came on. I. I mean, not 696 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,760 Speaker 1: that that's a problem, but like, why can't I why 697 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:19,399 Speaker 1: why does you when you see a black woman? Why 698 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:21,120 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that I have to be the hair tyonihilist 699 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,239 Speaker 1: or a job where they I showed up and thought 700 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:28,719 Speaker 1: I was the choreographer, or it's like and so I'm 701 00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,160 Speaker 1: always i'd be qut about it. I'm like, so what 702 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:34,040 Speaker 1: about me makes you think that you know that I'm 703 00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,879 Speaker 1: not the first aid or I'm not the director. I mean, 704 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,919 Speaker 1: like the p A He's like, hey are you hair? 705 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:44,600 Speaker 1: And I was like, no, I'm not hair well, I'm sorry, 706 00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:46,480 Speaker 1: but this is this is like what what are you? 707 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,960 Speaker 1: One of the extras? And I was like, I'm sorry, 708 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:51,600 Speaker 1: what's your name? He goes, what's your name? I was like, 709 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:53,480 Speaker 1: I asked you first. It's like what, it's like why 710 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:55,160 Speaker 1: I asked you? Second? I was like, I'm Angela, I'm 711 00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:59,440 Speaker 1: the first dad. What's your name? And he told me 712 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,799 Speaker 1: and he had like the worst crappiest lock up, way 713 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:04,799 Speaker 1: way way down the street. And I was like, I 714 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,239 Speaker 1: don't want to see you all day, but but what 715 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,279 Speaker 1: do you do when that guy is the producer? You 716 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:11,440 Speaker 1: can't do that? Then you don't have no power, you know. 717 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,680 Speaker 1: So I think getting more women and people of color 718 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,520 Speaker 1: on sets is the first thing that we need to 719 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,840 Speaker 1: do so that it's not weird to see a woman 720 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,600 Speaker 1: that's directing or a woman that's holding the camera or 721 00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:26,959 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, how many female operators do you now? 722 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:32,720 Speaker 1: Not many? Not many, not many at all? Um female 723 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,759 Speaker 1: first deities, not many many, you know, and then when 724 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,399 Speaker 1: you get into women of color, it's even fewer. When 725 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,840 Speaker 1: you think of women gaffers, I think I've maybe seen 726 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,359 Speaker 1: uh and I've seen more in Georgia actually than I've 727 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:46,799 Speaker 1: seen when I was out in l A. But in 728 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:50,520 Speaker 1: terms of female like a gripping electric not many. You know, 729 00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:55,000 Speaker 1: women tend to be hair, makeup, wardrobe and and by 730 00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,200 Speaker 1: the way, makeup artists make more poor hour than hairdressers 731 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,680 Speaker 1: because traditionally makeup artist was a man job back in 732 00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:05,719 Speaker 1: the day, so their hourly rate is higher, higher rate 733 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,480 Speaker 1: because typically that was a male job back and I 734 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,880 Speaker 1: did not know it. Yeah, so you have these and 735 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:13,160 Speaker 1: that's when they're talking about trying to make things fair. 736 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:16,040 Speaker 1: It's trying to have script supervisors or is a very 737 00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:19,040 Speaker 1: important job at traditionally as a female job, that's a 738 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,480 Speaker 1: job that should pay more. If that was a traditionally 739 00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:25,000 Speaker 1: male job, it would pay more, right, So it's about 740 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:29,360 Speaker 1: getting people used to seeing what they're not used to 741 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,279 Speaker 1: and then they'll go, oh, then it's not about show 742 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 1: me what you know. But even a few months ago, 743 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I won't say the show, but the producing 744 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:40,640 Speaker 1: director sat me down and says, hey, so you know, 745 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:44,200 Speaker 1: you ever have problems with like people like band's planning 746 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,279 Speaker 1: and that kind of thing, and this is why I dude, 747 00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,279 Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, you know that happens well, 748 00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:52,080 Speaker 1: how do you deal with that? And I said, well, Um, 749 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,120 Speaker 1: as a woman, um, I'll get labeled hysterical if I 750 00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,040 Speaker 1: get yelled, if I yell and scream, and as a 751 00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,279 Speaker 1: black woman, I'll be labeled the angry black woman. So 752 00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,040 Speaker 1: I try to usually diffuse it with a few with 753 00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,480 Speaker 1: humorous usually how I go to it. If it's really egregious, 754 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,919 Speaker 1: I'll snap back, but like usually I'll try to say 755 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,239 Speaker 1: something to make sure that people understand, like, Hi, I 756 00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:14,800 Speaker 1: know that you're here, the I'm the director. It's cool, 757 00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,440 Speaker 1: Like I know what I was doing, you know whatever. 758 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,560 Speaker 1: And he was, oh, good, because you know our our 759 00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,719 Speaker 1: DP and our first a d UM have a reputation 760 00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:25,800 Speaker 1: of being can be a little aggressive with her own agendas, 761 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:27,960 Speaker 1: especially with women directors, So I just wanted to give 762 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,359 Speaker 1: you the heads up. And then he proceeds to tell 763 00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:31,960 Speaker 1: me a story about how he was with this other 764 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,680 Speaker 1: woman director and he told her he should she she 765 00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,000 Speaker 1: should shoot it a certain way, and she yelled. She 766 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,720 Speaker 1: yelled at him, And I'm like, so you're just told 767 00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,960 Speaker 1: me a story about you man's plaining somebody and her 768 00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,960 Speaker 1: getting angry, and then you gave me a warning about 769 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,520 Speaker 1: your DP and first a d instead of telling them 770 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,960 Speaker 1: to stop it, you know. And this is like in 771 00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:59,440 Speaker 1: the last six months. So it's it's weird how it's 772 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,959 Speaker 1: um it's allowed. Men are allowed, and I'm not saying 773 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,400 Speaker 1: that women should be allowed. Like. To me, parody is 774 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:13,480 Speaker 1: not directors crew. To me, parody is me doing a 775 00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,600 Speaker 1: crappy job and totally crap in the bed on a 776 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,080 Speaker 1: directing job and still getting hired back on the show. 777 00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,880 Speaker 1: That's real parody, you know. But I don't want that. 778 00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:24,839 Speaker 1: I want everybody to do a good job. And I 779 00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:28,120 Speaker 1: feel that lowering the standards to women to what men 780 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,839 Speaker 1: have been allowed to get away with is the wrong 781 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:34,080 Speaker 1: direction I feel, because I mean, I don't want to 782 00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:38,120 Speaker 1: be able to pout the same dp that I was 783 00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,480 Speaker 1: warned about when pout when he wouldn't get his way. 784 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:46,799 Speaker 1: And you know what, grown women can pout in a 785 00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,800 Speaker 1: position of authority and not be like it's are you crazy? 786 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:55,080 Speaker 1: Like like really, So to me, it's about raising the 787 00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,600 Speaker 1: overall level of respect in general on sets. But but 788 00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,839 Speaker 1: first things versus like just getting them getting more more 789 00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,480 Speaker 1: people on the set in the first place. You know, 790 00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:08,160 Speaker 1: you reminded me of something that happened last year, I 791 00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:11,040 Speaker 1: was working on a show and I came in as 792 00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:17,320 Speaker 1: an additional set deck buyer and the the set decorator 793 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,400 Speaker 1: was a woman. Um, the buyer was a woman. We 794 00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:23,320 Speaker 1: had a lot of people in there in the office 795 00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:29,440 Speaker 1: that day talking, having a meeting, all women. Not intentional, 796 00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:31,680 Speaker 1: it was just, you know, we all like working together. 797 00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:37,640 Speaker 1: And some guy came in and he you know, he's 798 00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:41,319 Speaker 1: not a mean person or anything, but he said, oh am, 799 00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:46,319 Speaker 1: I not allowed in this girl party here and he 800 00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:49,600 Speaker 1: left and we all said, how many times do we 801 00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:52,960 Speaker 1: walk into rooms in this business that are filled with 802 00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,799 Speaker 1: nothing but men? Do we say anything like that? Does 803 00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:59,560 Speaker 1: it even occur to us, like up to a party? 804 00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:04,040 Speaker 1: But again, it's because you're you're used to seeing it exactly, 805 00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:06,600 Speaker 1: So when people aren't used to seeing it, that's when 806 00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:10,000 Speaker 1: there's that's when there's the pushback. But I've had when 807 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,680 Speaker 1: I was the first I've had director, I had one 808 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:17,040 Speaker 1: very well known director who I would say, hey, we're behind, 809 00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,160 Speaker 1: but I think if I slide this scene to this day, 810 00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,799 Speaker 1: this is a light day. You can go ahead and 811 00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:25,200 Speaker 1: you don't have to cut anything, and I think we'll 812 00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:27,640 Speaker 1: be fine. I'll go oh wall wait, wait, wait, let's 813 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:29,600 Speaker 1: get the guys over and let's talk about it. Let's 814 00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:32,080 Speaker 1: not just make decisions. And then he would call over 815 00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:34,799 Speaker 1: the male DP and the male key grip and the 816 00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:38,840 Speaker 1: male gaffer and you would have me explain the situation 817 00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:40,840 Speaker 1: to them all, and then they would all talk amongst 818 00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,560 Speaker 1: themselves about what the best choice would and then they 819 00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:45,200 Speaker 1: would say, yeah, we should do this, and then he'd 820 00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:48,040 Speaker 1: be okay, so we'll do what Mike said. And I 821 00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:52,640 Speaker 1: would say, actually, that's that's what I said five minutes ago, 822 00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,800 Speaker 1: but okay, you know, and I remember one time. This 823 00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:00,960 Speaker 1: would happen a lot, and I would always point out 824 00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:03,600 Speaker 1: that's what I said, and they would be like, oh, yeah, whatever, 825 00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:05,719 Speaker 1: and I didn't care. Is a guest director. He's gonna 826 00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:08,520 Speaker 1: be gone in a week anyway. And one time this 827 00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,120 Speaker 1: grip was standing there and this all went down, and 828 00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:12,759 Speaker 1: he looked at me when they walked away, and I 829 00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,840 Speaker 1: kind of just wanted to myself, and he goes, I've 830 00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:18,320 Speaker 1: I've read about that, and he goes, I've had women 831 00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:20,200 Speaker 1: friends of mine tell me that these things happen, and 832 00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:22,399 Speaker 1: I never believed it. He's like, if I hadn't seen 833 00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,200 Speaker 1: it with my own eyes, I wouldn't have believed that 834 00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,319 Speaker 1: that really happened. He's like, that happens all the time. 835 00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:31,080 Speaker 1: I'm like, it happens every day, like every day, and 836 00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:35,400 Speaker 1: that was probably a few years ago. So like, again, 837 00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:40,400 Speaker 1: this face, there's something that's they're not used to taking 838 00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:46,239 Speaker 1: direction or information or truth from this face. They have 839 00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:49,200 Speaker 1: to get someone to co sign because they're just not 840 00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:50,680 Speaker 1: used to it. So the more of us that are 841 00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:54,359 Speaker 1: out there doing it and kicking ass, and I feel 842 00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:56,480 Speaker 1: like there's a lot of responsibility. Like for me, it 843 00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,920 Speaker 1: was really hard because I remember being on a set 844 00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:04,040 Speaker 1: as a second and overhearing these two producers talking about 845 00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:09,000 Speaker 1: how they really wanted this one black woman director, but 846 00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:12,240 Speaker 1: this other black women director they had worked with before 847 00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:15,960 Speaker 1: didn't really do that great. So they were having they like, 848 00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:17,520 Speaker 1: I don't know if we should bring this other one 849 00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:19,520 Speaker 1: in there, because I saw them, and I'm in my mind, 850 00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,120 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, we had like five white dudes come in 851 00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:24,640 Speaker 1: and were terrible, but you didn't stop hiring white dudes, 852 00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:28,520 Speaker 1: Like not the same woman, mind, you a totally different woman. 853 00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:32,720 Speaker 1: And that's stuck in my head. So in my mind, 854 00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,319 Speaker 1: I was always overprepared, and there's this weight that was 855 00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:39,239 Speaker 1: on me of if I screw up, how many other 856 00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,800 Speaker 1: women of color out there are, and specifically black women 857 00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:43,960 Speaker 1: are not going to get the job because like because 858 00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,560 Speaker 1: of me. So I would go in and I was 859 00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:50,279 Speaker 1: so stressed. And then one day I had like this 860 00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,520 Speaker 1: epiphany of of when I kick ass, they'll never doubt 861 00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:56,319 Speaker 1: hiring another black woman. So now I see it as 862 00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,880 Speaker 1: a as a tool of power of I am the 863 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,680 Speaker 1: ambassador of black role magic of you can see what 864 00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:05,720 Speaker 1: I am, what you see what I can do. Because 865 00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:07,800 Speaker 1: if I've made it to this level of my career 866 00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:09,680 Speaker 1: with all the books that I had to put it with, 867 00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,040 Speaker 1: like I've already proven him to like if you're going 868 00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,319 Speaker 1: to go, oh, all things being equal, I had to 869 00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:17,600 Speaker 1: put up more crap to be equal. So you know 870 00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:20,560 Speaker 1: I'm better. And that's most women. Same thing. Like I 871 00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:22,640 Speaker 1: knew a white dude that said, I always hire the 872 00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:24,520 Speaker 1: women of the person of color if it's it's if 873 00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:26,759 Speaker 1: it's a tie, because in order for it to be 874 00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:28,239 Speaker 1: a tie, they had to work so much harder to 875 00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:31,080 Speaker 1: get there, So it's not a tie anymore. That means 876 00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:35,120 Speaker 1: that what's that's what breaks the tie? I love you, 877 00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:39,239 Speaker 1: I really do. Every set I have ever been on 878 00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:45,200 Speaker 1: with you has been such a well run, efficient, lovely 879 00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:47,759 Speaker 1: place to be. I mean that from the bottom of 880 00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:51,520 Speaker 1: my heart. I don't like mean people. I know, so 881 00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:55,680 Speaker 1: do I handle I handle that early? You do? You do? 882 00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:58,520 Speaker 1: But thank you. I'm kind of turning into like you're 883 00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:00,920 Speaker 1: You've always been one of my role moles. Now that 884 00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:04,320 Speaker 1: I'm a mom, like, I'm starting to get it, starting 885 00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:06,480 Speaker 1: to get it and I and I don't put up 886 00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,160 Speaker 1: with the mean people either. No, but it's funny though, 887 00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:12,520 Speaker 1: but I do. That's the tools that you use on 888 00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:17,480 Speaker 1: a difficult toddler or a difficult five year old are 889 00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:21,000 Speaker 1: the same ones you use on a difficult person. Yes, 890 00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:23,800 Speaker 1: it's exactly the same skill set. So I was recently 891 00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:25,480 Speaker 1: on a set where one of the actors was very, 892 00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:29,560 Speaker 1: very high maintenance. It was very always stopping down production, 893 00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,879 Speaker 1: always causing problems. And after my first scene with him, 894 00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:35,399 Speaker 1: came over to me and he goes, I can tell 895 00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,160 Speaker 1: you're a good mommy because you just mom the crap 896 00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:40,200 Speaker 1: out of that guy. And I did. I have a 897 00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:42,120 Speaker 1: special needs six year old, and I used all the 898 00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:43,920 Speaker 1: tools and tricks you're supposed to use with kids who 899 00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:47,040 Speaker 1: may have like some difficulty in processing information. And I 900 00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:49,399 Speaker 1: used all of that stuff. I reflected things back to him. 901 00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:51,279 Speaker 1: I made sure that like when he would when he 902 00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:53,560 Speaker 1: does this, you do this, you mirror them. There's things 903 00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:55,839 Speaker 1: you can do to make people know that you're on 904 00:51:55,880 --> 00:52:00,359 Speaker 1: their side and that they have power. And that's and 905 00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:02,000 Speaker 1: and I also say, like, and I don't know if 906 00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:03,680 Speaker 1: you guys have to bleep this, but like part of 907 00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:05,680 Speaker 1: like when there's a dick swinging contest, like I don't 908 00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:10,359 Speaker 1: have a dick, so you win, so let's so let's 909 00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:12,719 Speaker 1: do what I said. You win, but let's go ahead 910 00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:14,759 Speaker 1: and do what I said, okay, And so then they 911 00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:17,680 Speaker 1: feel like they've won because there's there was no me 912 00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:20,160 Speaker 1: going no, but you you know, we gotta do it 913 00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:22,080 Speaker 1: matter way. I'd be like, oh and I just Jedi 914 00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:24,600 Speaker 1: mind trick mom them to death. And then they go, okay, 915 00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:27,640 Speaker 1: that's fine. Oh it kind of it kind of made 916 00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:31,440 Speaker 1: me think, like I'm having all these flashbacks of carrying 917 00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:37,320 Speaker 1: a heavy furniture across the set and some dude running 918 00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:41,880 Speaker 1: over and literally taking the couch or the you know, 919 00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,160 Speaker 1: dresser out of your hands, out of my hands, and 920 00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:47,520 Speaker 1: the thing falls over. I had it perfectly balanced with 921 00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:50,520 Speaker 1: this other woman that I am carrying it with, you know, 922 00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:55,600 Speaker 1: and let thanks a lot. Thanks. Now it's on the ground, 923 00:52:56,280 --> 00:53:01,200 Speaker 1: Um that that's that's not just that's not sexism as 924 00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:04,839 Speaker 1: much as is like southernerism, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, 925 00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,680 Speaker 1: And it's like I understand the intention behind it, but 926 00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:11,600 Speaker 1: started yes, yes, the men that do it actually are 927 00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:14,600 Speaker 1: coming from a good place. And I also don't want 928 00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:17,879 Speaker 1: to get that confused though with um, I'm a very 929 00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:21,359 Speaker 1: safety conscious person. But no matter what, I still stand 930 00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:26,440 Speaker 1: up even if I'm annoying, even if I you know, 931 00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:29,200 Speaker 1: it holds up production for a second. Like, these things 932 00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:32,080 Speaker 1: need to be talked about, and I don't think that 933 00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:36,920 Speaker 1: women should be disrespected for standing up. We gotta take 934 00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:41,080 Speaker 1: care of each other, have to. We have some more 935 00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:43,439 Speaker 1: for you listeners, but first we have one more quick 936 00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:55,799 Speaker 1: break for word from our sponsor M and we're back. 937 00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:59,840 Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor. Let's get back to the discussion. So 938 00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:02,759 Speaker 1: I feel like we could we could go on and 939 00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:06,680 Speaker 1: on and on forever, but in the because it can't, Yeah, 940 00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:12,640 Speaker 1: for time, I like to try to wrap these things 941 00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:16,319 Speaker 1: up with what are some positive things that you're seeing are? 942 00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:19,799 Speaker 1: What are things that you think actions we could take 943 00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:25,120 Speaker 1: two to improve the industry for everybody. I know we've 944 00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:30,759 Speaker 1: already touched on getting more representation. UM, but I think 945 00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:37,280 Speaker 1: things like that. UM. Well, I will say this, UM, 946 00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:40,480 Speaker 1: even though I've had a baby and everybody knows I'm home, 947 00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:45,960 Speaker 1: I get multiple calls every week from from men that 948 00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:50,400 Speaker 1: I've worked for in the set dressing department, lead men, UM, 949 00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:57,000 Speaker 1: set decorators, prop masters, and they don't care that I 950 00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:58,799 Speaker 1: had a baby. They still want me back and they 951 00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:02,960 Speaker 1: keep trying. And that makes me feel really good. And UH, 952 00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:06,279 Speaker 1: I do want to say, I think the majority of 953 00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:09,000 Speaker 1: the people that I've worked for in Atlanta, the majority 954 00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:13,799 Speaker 1: of the men are really amazing people and very supportive. 955 00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:16,560 Speaker 1: In fact, I have one that wants to hire me 956 00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,360 Speaker 1: to come out and do some set dressing and have 957 00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:24,040 Speaker 1: me work eight hour days and UM just wants to 958 00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:25,560 Speaker 1: have me come out so that I can keep my 959 00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:28,719 Speaker 1: health insurance going, you know. So I just want to say, like, 960 00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:33,719 Speaker 1: I think that there are some very enlightened, empowering men 961 00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:41,880 Speaker 1: here and I, UM, I hope that that there's that 962 00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:48,120 Speaker 1: the example that they are setting UM is contagious and UM, 963 00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:52,719 Speaker 1: and I really appreciate the fact that that people are 964 00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:59,840 Speaker 1: starting to really recognize that we need to support women 965 00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:07,200 Speaker 1: intersectionally in this business, in all businesses, in this country, 966 00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:10,200 Speaker 1: in the world right now. And we cannot just talk 967 00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:15,120 Speaker 1: about white women. We can't. We have to talk about 968 00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,680 Speaker 1: women of color. We have to talk about trans women, 969 00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:22,960 Speaker 1: we have to talk about gay women, all women. We 970 00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:27,400 Speaker 1: have to talk about agesm we have to talk about uh, 971 00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:33,080 Speaker 1: women with disability. It's not just white women. It's so 972 00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:41,440 Speaker 1: much more than that. Yeah, yeah, for sure. What about you, Angela, 973 00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:45,360 Speaker 1: do you have any um I've seen some interesting things 974 00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:49,840 Speaker 1: where um. Job sharing is something that I've seen happened. 975 00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:56,920 Speaker 1: UM that basically like if it's a second second that 976 00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:00,320 Speaker 1: they alternate episodes of its episode episode of TV show 977 00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:02,719 Speaker 1: and they'll get a waiver so that they don't have 978 00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:06,000 Speaker 1: to pay. Like if you once you your last day 979 00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:08,400 Speaker 1: of work, you're supposed to get like an extra check basically, 980 00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:10,799 Speaker 1: so that way there they don't keep getting last days 981 00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:14,239 Speaker 1: every time they alternate, you know, UM, or you know 982 00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:16,120 Speaker 1: job sharing like that, like when you know you're gonna 983 00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:18,600 Speaker 1: have long days, is you bring somebody in and they 984 00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:21,720 Speaker 1: their minimum is a bare minimum, so you use somebody 985 00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:23,280 Speaker 1: for so many days and somebody else for so many 986 00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,200 Speaker 1: days so that they have one job that's consistent, but 987 00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:29,000 Speaker 1: they're not working full time. Full time. I think a 988 00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:33,400 Speaker 1: lot of the access programs UM, some are better than others, 989 00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:36,760 Speaker 1: but they have been good about UM bringing people in 990 00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:40,440 Speaker 1: UM just to meet some new faces, you know. I 991 00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:44,840 Speaker 1: think UM a lot of episodic shows, in particular Features 992 00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:48,760 Speaker 1: is going a little slower, but UM are doing are 993 00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:53,200 Speaker 1: intentionally trying to look for female directors UM a little bit. 994 00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:55,280 Speaker 1: What's happening as all the ones who are already working 995 00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:57,760 Speaker 1: are just working a lot more now, so, but they're 996 00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:01,360 Speaker 1: being better about bringing in new voices and new people. Unfortunately, 997 00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:05,320 Speaker 1: sometimes it's being made a scapegoat. So like if you 998 00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:10,000 Speaker 1: have twelve episodes, is something producers will tell the guy 999 00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:12,640 Speaker 1: they didn't hire, Oh, well, we had to hold these 1000 00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:15,160 Speaker 1: two slots for women, and so in their mind, a 1001 00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:17,760 Speaker 1: woman took their job, when really the eight guys that 1002 00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:19,880 Speaker 1: got the episodes, they should have just been better than 1003 00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:23,640 Speaker 1: them and they would have got the job. So there's 1004 00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:28,000 Speaker 1: a lot of kind of blaming, like, you know, oh, 1005 00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:30,280 Speaker 1: that person is the reason you're not working, when that's 1006 00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:34,000 Speaker 1: not like diversity is not taking your job. It's it's 1007 00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:38,080 Speaker 1: not so, but I you know, slowly but surely from 1008 00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:41,400 Speaker 1: what I've seen, Atlanta's Atlantis sets tend to be more 1009 00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:45,080 Speaker 1: diverse in general. But even when I go back to 1010 00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:48,440 Speaker 1: l A two shows, I'm seeing a lot more. And 1011 00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:50,400 Speaker 1: then like on the screen, like I went, I did 1012 00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:53,160 Speaker 1: an episode of One Day at a Time and it 1013 00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:56,200 Speaker 1: was like beautiful because I'm used to seeing shows when 1014 00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:59,000 Speaker 1: it's like about people of color. The people behind the 1015 00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:01,760 Speaker 1: scenes often like I'm sorry, like we talked to Oscars, 1016 00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:05,800 Speaker 1: like last night with Green Book, like center stage was 1017 00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:08,920 Speaker 1: all the white dudes. Octavia Spencer was way over here 1018 00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:10,920 Speaker 1: as one of the producers and they only mentioned her 1019 00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:12,880 Speaker 1: way at the end. You know what I'm saying, Like 1020 00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:16,280 Speaker 1: that seems to be the pattern and telling the stories 1021 00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:17,720 Speaker 1: of people of color, like One Day at a Time 1022 00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:20,440 Speaker 1: was a great show because it was all there was 1023 00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:25,800 Speaker 1: Latinos writers and producers as well as lgbt Q writers 1024 00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:28,680 Speaker 1: and producers on the show to write the stories about 1025 00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:31,000 Speaker 1: this quan American in l A and her gay daughter 1026 00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:35,000 Speaker 1: and the traditional mom and the sun and like it's 1027 00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:38,640 Speaker 1: nice to see that um and not just be you know, 1028 00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:42,400 Speaker 1: a bunch of white dudes from Harvard rite up. You know, Yeah, 1029 00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:45,560 Speaker 1: what's what's really going on? But yeah, it's I've been 1030 00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:47,919 Speaker 1: having a good I've been having a good time. And 1031 00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:51,320 Speaker 1: go see the movies that are directed by women of color, 1032 00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:54,960 Speaker 1: you know, go see the movies that are that are 1033 00:59:55,000 --> 01:00:01,000 Speaker 1: directed by um people in the LGBTQ community. Um, God, 1034 01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:04,680 Speaker 1: when I when I think about how many movies I 1035 01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:09,320 Speaker 1: grew up, seeing that we're just like so male dominated, 1036 01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:12,040 Speaker 1: it makes me sick. I'm even you know, I'm going 1037 01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:13,680 Speaker 1: back and even listening to a lot of the bands 1038 01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:16,680 Speaker 1: I used to listen to, and I'm like Jesus Christ, 1039 01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:21,680 Speaker 1: it's a bunch of blape dudes. But you know, sorry, 1040 01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:26,240 Speaker 1: but um, let me get a sip of tea here. No, 1041 01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:27,920 Speaker 1: but I think part of it is, again, was what 1042 01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:30,440 Speaker 1: are you used to? I think when people get used 1043 01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:34,080 Speaker 1: to seeing like Wonder Woman was a big deal, so 1044 01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:36,400 Speaker 1: that Captain Marvel isn't as much of a big deal, 1045 01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:39,040 Speaker 1: and then eventually it's not a deal at all, you 1046 01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:42,640 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. Yes, so when we the nostalgia 1047 01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:45,000 Speaker 1: of oh my god, sixteen Candles was such a great movie, 1048 01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:46,960 Speaker 1: and then you watch it again and are horrified at 1049 01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:50,920 Speaker 1: how awful sexist and racist and and like rape the 1050 01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:54,480 Speaker 1: whole totally rad is and Jake Ryan's a dick. He's 1051 01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:57,720 Speaker 1: not an ideal guy, you know, like who like when 1052 01:00:57,720 --> 01:00:59,720 Speaker 1: you're you know, but that's what you're used to seeing. 1053 01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:02,440 Speaker 1: That was something that's normal. So as there's a new 1054 01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:07,600 Speaker 1: normal is introduced and as people are enforcing the new normal, Um, 1055 01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:10,680 Speaker 1: to me, that makes it a little easier for for 1056 01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:14,600 Speaker 1: us chicks to get ahead. You know. Yeah, we've done 1057 01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:18,360 Speaker 1: an episode after episode after episode where um, the studies 1058 01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:22,520 Speaker 1: have shown that seeing yourself represented really impacts the things 1059 01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:25,600 Speaker 1: that you think that you can do. And so, like 1060 01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:27,920 Speaker 1: you're saying, getting more people working on that set, and 1061 01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:30,840 Speaker 1: then younger people can see that and think that that 1062 01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:34,040 Speaker 1: is an option for them as well, instead of like 1063 01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:36,720 Speaker 1: it's just closed off. I've never seen someone who looks 1064 01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:39,480 Speaker 1: like me that does that. Um, it's a big deal. 1065 01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:42,400 Speaker 1: So and it may not even be conscious. It's women 1066 01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:44,280 Speaker 1: who go to film school who don't even try to 1067 01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:48,800 Speaker 1: become directors because they don't see they got it's going 1068 01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:51,120 Speaker 1: to be too That fight is a harder fight than 1069 01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:53,320 Speaker 1: I think I'm able to do, you know what I mean. 1070 01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:56,320 Speaker 1: And honestly, that's why I didn't go into being a 1071 01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:59,520 Speaker 1: director right away the same hardly because of that. I was, 1072 01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:04,640 Speaker 1: you know, I in my family the arts, My arts 1073 01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:07,240 Speaker 1: careers were kind of shunned as like, look what happens 1074 01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:09,240 Speaker 1: to everybody in our family who's an artist is they're 1075 01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:11,840 Speaker 1: all broken they you know they did My dad worked 1076 01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:14,080 Speaker 1: for I you know, worked for a business, and you 1077 01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:17,760 Speaker 1: know I should be a lawyer if something, or in office. 1078 01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:22,560 Speaker 1: You know. Um. So now that it's I don't know, 1079 01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:25,200 Speaker 1: now that the new normal is becoming the new normal, 1080 01:02:25,560 --> 01:02:28,640 Speaker 1: it's it's getting a little bit better, I think. Yeah. 1081 01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:33,000 Speaker 1: Um So, I just want to thank you both so 1082 01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:36,520 Speaker 1: much for being here. Um, is there anything else you 1083 01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:38,480 Speaker 1: want to touch on before we wrap up? By no time? Is? 1084 01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:49,560 Speaker 1: Uh no? Black ro magic, black girl magic, um, intersectional 1085 01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:58,520 Speaker 1: gender equality. We're just saying phrases. Now. Where can listeners 1086 01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:02,840 Speaker 1: find you? Oh? Um, I'm on Instagram. Love Angela comes. 1087 01:03:03,560 --> 01:03:06,960 Speaker 1: I am don't technically have Twitter is the same thing. 1088 01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:09,760 Speaker 1: Love Angela goms, but I don't ever tweet anything. I 1089 01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:13,680 Speaker 1: always just post pictures, um, and then I am dB 1090 01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:15,960 Speaker 1: is where they can find the kind of stuff I've 1091 01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:18,479 Speaker 1: been working on. So I just did some American soul 1092 01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:22,600 Speaker 1: and did alegacies and did ambitions and I'm about to 1093 01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:25,200 Speaker 1: go to Field the reunion for Netflix, which will be fun. 1094 01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:32,680 Speaker 1: So um so yeah that's my stuff. Um well, my 1095 01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:37,200 Speaker 1: IMDb desperately needs to be updated, and um you can't 1096 01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:40,640 Speaker 1: really find me anywhere unless you're my friend on Facebook 1097 01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:43,439 Speaker 1: or Instagram, because I'm kind of weird about people looking 1098 01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:46,800 Speaker 1: at my kid that, um I don't know her. I 1099 01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:56,120 Speaker 1: think that's pretty legit. People don't care though, um uh, 1100 01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:02,520 Speaker 1: but you can probably find some videos of me playing 1101 01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:08,680 Speaker 1: the drums out there somewhere. But you can find me 1102 01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:14,480 Speaker 1: in my kids preschool classroom as a classroom mom supporter 1103 01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:18,120 Speaker 1: p T A C type. I'll be back, so oh 1104 01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:23,360 Speaker 1: yes I will. Yeah, I'm sure you will. You're you're 1105 01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:26,520 Speaker 1: both doing amazing work. Eppisode thrilled that you came in, 1106 01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:30,240 Speaker 1: um and listeners. You should totally keep an eye out 1107 01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:32,960 Speaker 1: for the work that they do in the future and 1108 01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:34,960 Speaker 1: in the meantime. If you like the email as, you 1109 01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:37,520 Speaker 1: can our email as mom Stuff at how stuffworks dot com. 1110 01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:39,800 Speaker 1: You can also find us on Twitter at mom Stuff 1111 01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:42,240 Speaker 1: Podcast and on Instagram at stuff Mom Never Told You. 1112 01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:45,479 Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our producer Andrew Howard, and thanks 1113 01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:46,360 Speaker 1: to you for listening