WEBVTT - The Pulitzer Prize: A major award! 0:00:01.520 --> 0:00:07.800 Welcome to stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:13.520 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:16.880 Chuck and Jerry's well, no, Jerry's not here. Man talk 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:21.000 about habit. Ben's here. It's the reign of Ben still 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:24.639 and that makes this these days stuff you should know. 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:28.000 That's right. The episode in which we talk about a 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:29.080 major reward. 0:00:30.040 --> 0:00:33.920 Yeah, that's not a leg lamp, but the Pulitzer Prize. 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:37.400 It is a you know, it's an award with much 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:42.360 prestige attached. They will be giving out the next round 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:45.720 on May eighth, probably not too long after this episode 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:50.440 comes out, in twenty three different categories. At a ceremony 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:52.879 at Columbia University in. 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:58.120 New York City, did you say Pulitzer? Pulitzer? What do 0:00:58.120 --> 0:00:58.440 you say? 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:01.680 That's what I say now. I said Pulitzer for the 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:03.000 vast majority of my life. 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:05.640 Though, Do you know which is right? 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:10.199 I think Pulitzer. Okay, yeah, we've been corrected enough times. 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:11.880 I think it is Pulitzer. You got it right? 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:12.680 All right? 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:16.120 Good they are and we'll go over all the categories. 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:18.760 But what you should know about the Pulitzer Prize is 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:25.039 they are distinguished works of American works, Yeah, in a 0:01:25.120 --> 0:01:29.280 variety of categories. And I don't think even until yesterday 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:33.640 I fully realized that it was such a strictly American award. 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:37.679 I didn't either, which is ironic because it was the brainchild. 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:43.640 It was founded by Joseph Pulitzer, who was a Hungarian immigrant. Yeah, 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:47.400 but loved America. Loved America so much he moved to 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:49.760 Missouri and didn't leave for a while. 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:50.880 Yeah. 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:54.320 He was born into a wealthy family April tenth, eighteen 0:01:54.400 --> 0:02:00.080 forty seven and was a real like ambitious dude. He 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:03.160 came over to fought to fight in the American Civil War. 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:05.680 For the Union. Yeah that's something, and did, in fact 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:07.720 enlists for a year in the Lincoln Cavalry. 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:12.000 But he became a newspaper publisher at the age of 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:14.600 twenty five, and by the time he was thirty one, 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:17.880 he was the owner of this Saint Louis Dispatch, like 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:18.760 a major paper. 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:22.040 Yet no, the Dispatch is still around. Oh yeah, yeah, 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:26.920 that's amazing. I didn't see how he ended up in 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:29.120 New York, but eventually he made his way to New 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:32.919 York and with his experience running a paper, took over 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:37.080 the world. The New York World, which was just a 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:39.400 New York paper in eighteen eighty three when he started, 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:43.200 but under his tenure it became the first national newspaper 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:45.280 like the USA today of its time. 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:48.239 Yeah, and he was, like I said, he was a 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:49.040 tireless worker. 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:52.080 But he also suffered from poor health for most of 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:56.720 his life. I'm not sure exactly what it was, because 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:58.640 I saw that noises were a big deal. So he 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:02.760 would like have like rooms that were just like vaults 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:06.760 basically so he could sit in silence. But this poor health, 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:09.280 and I think he had failing vision two. He eventually, 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:12.480 at the young age of forty three, technically retired as 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:15.720 editor in chief of the World, but still really maintained 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:17.480 a pretty tight control over that paper. 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:23.200 Right. So today we think of Joseph Pulleitzer, we associate 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:28.280 his name with distinguished works of journalism, like the Cream 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:31.760 of the Crop of journalism every year, and that it 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:35.480 turns out as largely by design, because Joseph Pulleitzer, at 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:38.160 the time he was alive and running the New York World, 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:42.839 was well known for being the essentially the guy who 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:50.680 helped create yellow journalism, using hyperbole, using sensationalism, like writing 0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:54.840 front page stories about people's divorces, like just scandal tabloid 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:58.520 stuff like this guy helped establish tabloid journalism in the 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:02.080 United States, And it might not have been quite so 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:08.280 pronounced his brand of yellow journalism had he not had 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:12.560 a like a rival who actually, in like perfect star 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:16.719 Wars in fashion, was actually his protege protege turned rival, 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:18.280 a guy named William Randolph. 0:04:18.000 --> 0:04:22.320 Hurst, that's right, And they had the New York American Journal. 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:26.080 American was the big paper for Hurst at the time, 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:28.320 and they were in a real sort of neck and 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:32.080 neck battle to sell newspapers there in New York and 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:35.640 really kind of went at it yellow journalism style. 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:38.680 Yeah, so yellow journalism, it turns out, has to do. 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:41.239 We must have talked about it in our comics episode 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:44.480 or whatever there was. The Yellow Kid was a character 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:50.120 on the comic called Hogan's Alley and the World and 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:54.039 the Journal American both had versions of this cartoon, essentially 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:56.760 one ripped off the other. So this was known as 0:04:56.800 --> 0:05:00.960 the competition between the Yellow Kids, which came to be 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:03.839 known as yellow journalism. Right, and they would just pull 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:07.039 out all the stops, And apparently this race to the 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:11.000 bottom is largely blamed for starting the Spanish American War 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:14.960 essentially or at least getting America behind the whole thing, 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:18.360 so there was like real repercussions to it. People's lives 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:22.240 would be ruined. And so the idea that Joseph Pulitzer's 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:25.919 name is associated with, like the greatness of journalism is 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:31.000 really one of the better cases of I guess whitewashing 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:32.200 your image over time. 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:36.600 Yeah, I mean, he did believe in great journalism. He 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:38.880 said at one point, my idea is to recognize that 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:41.320 journalism is or ought to be one of the great 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:45.719 and intellectual professions. And there's more to the quote, but 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:49.240 like he was, he had this idea that he revered 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:52.880 this journalism, maybe because he wasn't doing it. And in 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:57.240 eighteen ninety two he approached Columbia University president and said, hey, 0:05:57.440 --> 0:05:59.960 how about we get a graduate school of journalism going 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:03.320 there isn't one in the whole world. They said, eh, no, thanks, 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:08.400 So Missouri, the Missouri University of Missouri School of Journalism 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:12.680 became the first one in nineteen oh eight. The Nobel 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:15.640 Prizes were launched in nineteen oh one, and right after that, 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:18.640 Joseph Pulleitzer said, well, why don't we have our own 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:23.520 awards for journalism. This is nineteen oh two. Two years later, 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:27.200 in nineteen oh four, in his will he said, hey, Columbia, 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:30.760 here's two hundred and fifty grand, which is about nine 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:35.800 million bucks today. Established these prizes, and Columbia had a 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:38.920 new president at the time, and they said this guy 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:39.839 named Nicholas Butler. 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:41.400 He was like, yeah, that sounds great. 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:43.880 I'll take that money, and I'll also take the two 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:46.040 million dollars that you're going to give us for that 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:48.320 graduate school that we now think is a good idea, 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:50.719 which is about seventy one million bucks today. 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:58.880 That's right, So very wisely, Joseph Pullitzer, he helped establish 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:01.440 his legacy. He steered what his name would be remembered 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:06.479 for by creating the foremost prize for journalists. Right. 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:07.960 He didn't live to see it though, right. 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:10.960 Uh No, I believe I don't know what year he died, 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:14.200 but it was before nineteen seventy nineteen seventeen. 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:18.880 Yeah, he died in nineteen eleven, Okay, so he didn't 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:21.400 even I think the graduate school opened a year after that, 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:24.240 and then the Pulletzers didn't start until six years later. 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:27.120 Okay, So he probably died with his fingers crossed, and 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:33.520 it actually paid off because not only did he he 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:36.960 did two really smart things. Chuck. One, he created a 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:41.360 panel a board to oversee the Pulitzer Prizes, and he 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:44.680 very wisely said, you it's up to you guys to 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:47.520 let these prizes evolve with the times. Don't let them 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:51.840 just be stuck in like nineteen oh four type stuff, like, 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:53.720 we want them to just kind of grow and evolve, 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:56.040 and they have over time. That was very smart. And 0:07:56.080 --> 0:08:00.320 then secondly, he tied them not just a journalist, but 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:07.080 to drama, to music, to fiction, poetry. And at the time, 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:14.240 the American arts were considered foreig inferior to Europe, but 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:19.280 they were still considered vastly superior to American journalism. So 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:23.200 by hitching the wagon of journalism to this more revered 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:29.640 and legitimate form of expression, he raised journalism as well 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:32.079 the profile of journalism, and it worked. I mean, it 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:35.679 was really sharp how we set all this up, because 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:37.240 it paid off in aces. 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:40.520 Yeah, I think music came after him because his initial 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:44.120 eight awards were four for journalism and then four book 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:49.080 and drama awards. Compared to the twenty three categories we 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:53.439 have today fifteen in journalism, five in books, one in drama, 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:57.160 one in music, and one for graduate fellowships in journalism. 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:03.640 And I say we take an early break, yeah, and 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:04.920 go over these categories. 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:05.920 All right, let's do it. 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:24.600 Lately I've been learning some stuff about insomnia or alumnia. 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:31.319 How about the one on borderl disorder that are under order. 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:34.600 You've heard that one be more, but it was so 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:36.439 nice I learned this. 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:47.840 Why except everybody listen up, stop stop lead stop stop stop. 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:55.360 So we're gonna go over all twenty three categories. Dave 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:57.559 helped us with this, So we'll just tell you a 0:09:57.600 --> 0:10:00.000 little bit about him because there's so many and maybe 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:03.360 mentioned like some notable winners or maybe this past year's winner. 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:04.640 This is going to be a four parter. 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:07.560 Yeah. One thing you will notice is that. 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:12.920 He was a populist guy, Joseph Pulitzer was very sort 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:16.360 of progressive populist. Even though he was a wealthy dude 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:19.640 from a wealthy family. He really wanted to identify with 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:24.280 a common person. And the winners, as you'll see, still 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:28.320 have a very sort of populous progressive bit to them. 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:31.480 Yes, very much so to this day. And it's you know, 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:32.560 through Columbia university. 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:35.520 Still, so it's not You're not gonna see Alex Jones 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:37.160 winning a Pulitzer Prize, you. 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:40.920 Know, for one of many reasons such a shock. 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:41.280 Wow. 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:42.239 Yeah. 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:44.600 So the first one, the big Daddy, as they call 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:49.120 it at Columbia, is the Public Service Award. This is 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:55.600 the only Pulitzer award that comes with an actual engraved medal. Right, yeah, 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:57.800 that's what they expect you to do when they hand 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:01.240 you the medals. Dave who helped us with us he 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:04.640 put it, it's like the MVP of Pulitzers. Yeah, this 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:07.720 is so if you win this one, usually it's for 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:13.480 an entire organization. Sometimes they'll they'll mention like the lead writer, 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:15.920 if it was basically the work of one person. But 0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:18.680 usually it's like the New York Times newsroom, or the 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:21.000 Washington Post newsroom, or yea once in a while, the 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:24.520 Wall Street Journal's newsroom. Usually one of the big news 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:28.040 services organizations are the ones who win the Public Service Award. 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:30.960 That's right, that's the big Daddy. So there's also the 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:36.200 Breaking News Reporting Award. Obviously, it's about breaking news and 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:39.559 it is for a story that quote as quickly as possible, 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:44.360 captures events accurately, as they occur and as time passes, eliminates, 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:49.960 provides contexts, and expands upon the initial coverage. One notable 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:53.959 winner was the Denver Post the year the Columbine massacre happened, 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:58.240 or the New Orleans Times pick a UNI for their 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:00.959 coverage of Katrina in two thousands, that kind of thing. 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:04.200 Yeah, journalism, what journalism is supposed to be. They have 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:05.360 a special award for that. 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:06.960 Yeah, newsy journalism. 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:11.600 There's also investigative reporting, which you don't really need to 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:14.960 spell out because sure you know it is what it is. 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:17.880 But for this year, the Wall Street Journal one, they 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:21.120 had a series of articles, and that's a recurring theme. 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:26.079 Very frequently the winners have had a series of articles 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:29.040 rather than just one big whopper of an article. Yeah, 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:31.560 and that's actually by design, as we'll see. But there 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:33.840 was a series of articles about the conflicts of interest 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:39.920 between people at fifty different federal agencies and the stocks 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:43.200 of the companies that they regulated, and how they used 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:46.920 that information to basically trade publicly. Like you remember our 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:50.400 COVID episode where we started shouting about how some of 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:53.360 the senators who were debriefed on COVID and then went 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:55.760 and sold stock should be locked up. Yeah, it was 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:56.839 about that basically. 0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:57.880 Yeah, exactly. 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:03.240 What is for explanatory reporting if it's like a really 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:06.080 complex topic that someone can break down in a in 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:06.680 a great way. 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:13.000 One for local reporting. So yeah, that speaks for itself. 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.800 Yeah, and this is where it's much easier for a 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:21.800 smaller organization to shop. Yeah, sure, that's good. Else there's 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:26.720 also national reporting, again usually goes to the larger, the 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:29.520 larger organizations just because they cover more of the nation. 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:36.080 International reporting, same thing. And then feature writing, where you're 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:41.679 you're also kind of credited for bringing in style, like 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.520 making a like taking a topic and actually like making 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:47.560 it more readable in some ways. There's just some a 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:50.880 certain flare to it. It's like the TGI Fridays of Pulitzers. 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:53.079 Yeah, I thought. 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:56.800 I'd get a bigger reaction out, even you jerk. 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:02.040 Commentary. That is for columnists, but it is not editorial columns. 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:03.920 That's another one. 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:07.520 Criticism, like if you're a you know, drama critic or 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:09.880 a restaurant critic or someone like that. Like Roger Ebert 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:11.720 won one in nineteen seventy five. 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:16.200 So did our old friend Michiko Kakutani, who, as Dave 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:19.960 helpfully pointed out as a she for me because I 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:22.160 got it so so wrong before, so so. 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:26.080 Wrong, which will we already corrected, Dave. Yeah, what else? 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:29.120 We do have one for editorial writing. This is for 0:14:29.240 --> 0:14:32.600 you know, either editorial boards or op ed writers. Right, 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:37.000 illustrated reporting. This is a fun one because that's for 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:38.440 editorial cartoonists. 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:40.520 Yeah, that's what they used to call it, and then 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:43.800 they changed it to illustrated reporting and commentary. And for 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:47.360 this year, Mona Chellabi won for The New York Times. 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:51.560 She had a series illustrating Jeff Bezos's wealth and they 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:54.440 were all pretty clever and interesting, so were the finalists 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:58.520 the runners up too, but she had one that showed 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:02.880 so it compared the avera Ridge Amazon employees wages to 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:07.200 Jeff Bezos's wealth, and so that the average Amazon employee 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:11.120 made thirty seven, nine and thirty dollars in twenty twenty 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:15.280 and at that rate, to reach Jeff Bezos's wealth of 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:17.560 one hundred and seventy two billion, they would have had 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:21.320 to have started working in the Pliocene epoch four point 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:24.960 five million years ago. They really drove it home to me. 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:27.160 Yeah, those are always fun, Yeah you can. 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:29.440 Yeah, I was going to say like, oh, was it 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:31.840 just a sack of money in the shape of the 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:33.040 United States or something. 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:35.280 No, it was much more telling that. 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:37.840 Yeah that's how you went a Pulitzer exactly. 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:40.760 But I mean the runners up too, were just just 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:44.400 just good stuff. Like go look up illustrated reporting and 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:47.440 commentary Pulitzer stuff and you'll you'll be like, wow, this 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:48.720 is amazing that people do this. 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:53.720 We should we should do one on political what are 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:54.680 they called cartoons? 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:56.480 Yeah, editorial cartoons. 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:58.160 Yeah, yeah, we should do one on that whole thing. 0:15:58.320 --> 0:15:59.400 That'd be a fun one, I think. 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:02.400 Okay, Yumy's uncle is an editorial cartoonist, a well known 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:03.120 one in Japan. 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:07.880 No way, way, wow, all right, well, we're definitely gonna 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:09.720 do it. Then, okay, that's the old deal. 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:10.440 Cool. 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:15.840 I have seen that there's breaking news photography, you know, 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:20.480 that's obviously some usually some tragedy is unfolding and someone 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:25.680 will snap a iconic photo. Different from the feature photography award. 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:29.960 This is like a photo series usually yeah that has 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:31.240 a tells a story. 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:33.680 That's feature photography. 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:36.680 It's more flip bookie than the breaking news photography. 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:40.200 And then finally, everybody introduced just a few years ago 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:44.920 audio reporting, Like there is a they don't call it 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:47.320 the Podcast Award, but that's kind of what it is. 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:50.480 Well, it includes podcasts, but it can also include like 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:55.360 local yeah, public radio, like features and stories and all that. 0:16:55.520 --> 0:17:00.400 That's a huge expansion because before it was all print, 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:03.720 it was all writing, as we'll see. So that's a big, 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:05.680 a big new one. And there's another new one coming 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:11.680 down the pike that allows broadcast outlets like say, your 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:16.520 local NBC affiliate it's a really great reporter that writes 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:20.399 on their website that reporter will now be eligible for 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:21.640 Pulitzer stuff. 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:22.440 That's cool. 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:28.520 Yeah. Then there's also the whole book section, which is interesting. 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:32.800 Yeah, the Prize for Fiction used to be called the 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:37.119 Prize for novels, but now it's fiction. Usually it's about 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:42.000 American life, says you know, preferably, but it's American author 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:45.200 generally with a story about Americans American ing. 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:48.560 Yeah. So every year they picked that year's Great American 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:49.440 novel basically. 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:52.000 Yeah, and that's remember I said I was reading a book, 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:55.040 a novel for the first time in a while recently. Yeah, 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:58.720 I picked this book because that's sometimes when I'm after 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:00.800 a novel and it's been in a while, I will 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:03.080 go to the Pulitzer list, and that's exactly what I did. 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:07.200 And I'm reading Less by Andrew Sean Greer, which one 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:12.040 in twenty eighteen, and it is so funny and great awesome. 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:12.960 I love it. 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:16.479 From in Living Color to Pulitzer Price. 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:18.359 Oh, David Allen Greer com. 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:21.720 Oh oh that's right. There's also one on history, a 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:25.000 one on biography also other way outs biography. 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:27.919 Your man, Charles Mann has not won the Pulitzer. I 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:30.240 looked it up. I was like, surely Josh's guy won 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:31.359 this award for history. 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:35.199 Yeah, no, that's more. He's more focused on meso American. 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:37.600 This is America, like United States American. 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:39.600 I think that counts. 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:43.680 I agree, But apparently the Pulitzer committee is not interested 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:44.520 in that kind of thing. 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:46.720 He won which was yours fourteen ninety one. 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:49.400 Yeah, and then the follow up was fourteen ninety three. 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:52.119 Yeah, he won a big award for that, but not 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:52.600 the Pulitzer. 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:54.680 Oh yeah, no, he definitely deserved it for sure. 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:56.800 Yeah. So you mentioned biography. 0:18:57.080 --> 0:19:01.520 Yeah, there's also now memoir or autobiography, sure. 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:03.280 Which was branded this past year. 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:06.440 Yeah, they're just really busting out the new awards. 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:10.000 Right, Yeah, they got a Poetry Award for American Poets 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:11.240 general nonfiction. 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:15.320 That would be what our book won a Politzer. 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:18.520 For, right, so nonfiction but not a memoir or autobiography 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:19.320 or biography. 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:20.919 Yeah. And I'm not sure if we said this, and 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:24.439 I'm not sure if it was spelled out, but the 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:29.919 it had to have been released in that year. Yeah, yeah, okay, 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:32.439 so the good point. Okay, that's that's very important. So 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:34.560 like our book will never win a Pulitzer because it 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:37.360 had a shot at winning the year it came out, 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:39.119 and then after that it's out of the running. 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:40.280 That's right. 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:43.359 Same uh, same with drama. There's a drama one that 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:46.440 we said, like usually it is a great American play. 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:51.760 David Mammott won for Glengarry Glenn Ross. 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:56.520 Yeah, what's the name one, oh David. 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:01.160 Well Miranda, Yes, that guy, Yeah yeah. 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:04.840 August Wilson won for Fences, another great play. So yeah, 0:20:04.960 --> 0:20:05.920 great great plays. 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:09.800 And then music, and this one's typically kind of controversial 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:14.800 because it really reveals just how stuffy the Pulitzer board is. 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:19.480 In any given year. It almost always goes to a 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:24.160 like a recording of classical music that somebody released that year, 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:29.040 and classical music is not exactly America's contribution. These are 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:35.080 American awards. Don't forget about America by Americans. Typically well, 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:39.240 America contributed jazz, rock for the most part, and hip 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:42.960 hop very clearly as far as music goes, and only 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:45.359 one hip hop artist. I'm surprised that there's even one. 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:49.760 Kendrick Lamar won a Pulletzer in twenty seventeen. A couple 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:53.040 of jazz cats have, but for the most part, it's 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:56.800 usually classical music. So look for that to continue to 0:20:56.920 --> 0:20:59.160 change in the future because from what I can tell, 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:03.880 the Pulletzer people are hyper aware of how they are 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:08.760 perceived in the in the intelligentsia version of pop culture 0:21:09.280 --> 0:21:11.520 and respond to it subtly over time. 0:21:12.359 --> 0:21:14.800 Yeah, what I want to know is how many of 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:18.800 our friends in Britain their heads about to pop off. 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:22.119 That's why I said kind of I qualified the invented 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:24.080 rock and roll. We had a lot to do with it. 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:25.040 Hey, of course we did. 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:26.760 Chuck Berry was in British. 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:29.119 No, I know, we trust me. 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:31.879 I'm with you, okay, And some can even say that 0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:34.640 the you know, the American Blues is the true birth 0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:37.320 of what would become rock and roll because all those 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:40.280 British bands were influenced by the American blues exactly. 0:21:40.640 --> 0:21:42.080 Yeah to stick it. 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:44.680 Yeah, take that our British friends. 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:48.639 You know what's interesting though, is the biggest sort of 0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:52.240 rock bands of the classic rock era, most of those 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:56.440 were not American. I mean that we had our share, 0:21:57.080 --> 0:22:00.400 but like when you think about you know, the biggest 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:03.719 bands in the world, they were led Zeppelin and the Who, 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:08.640 and the Rolling Stones and the Beatles and mostly British. 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:12.280 So super super duper classic version, not like White Lion 0:22:12.440 --> 0:22:15.760 or Dockin No, no, no, because they were Americans through 0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:16.160 and through. 0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:18.600 My friend Yeah, yeah, I mean we had Boston and 0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:20.360 the Eagles and Aerosmiths and stuff like that. 0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:22.440 Sure, but they have flatbirds. 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:23.560 Yeah. 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:23.960 No. 0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:29.160 Boys, See, you're taking a rite down the White Lion lane. 0:22:30.040 --> 0:22:32.480 All right? Should we keep going or should we take 0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:33.119 a break here? 0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:36.000 Uh, let's keep going since we already took it early one. 0:22:36.119 --> 0:22:38.320