WEBVTT - Lorne Michaels 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.760 I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. 0:00:03.440 --> 0:00:06.600 Lauren Michaels is one of the most influential figures in 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:10.000 American entertainment. I went to visit him at his corner 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:14.400 office and Rockefeller Center. It's seventeen floors above the skating rink. 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:17.360 Then there's a huge fish tank in the corner. It's 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:20.760 the same office he's had since nineteen seventy five, when 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:24.119 he started Saturday Night Live and proceeded to launch the 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:28.320 careers of some of the biggest names in comedy Belushi, Ackroyd, 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:32.640 Gilda Radner, Bill Murray, Chris Farley, Adam Sandler, Chris Rock, 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:36.480 Will Farrell, Tina Fey. The list goes on and on 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:40.240 and on. He's a rare producer and that he's truly 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:43.639 involved in all aspects of production. Yet he says when 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:47.680 he does his job right, he leaves no fingerprints. Lord 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:51.160 Michael's life in comedy began in the late nineteen sixties 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:54.800 when he worked at the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation in Toronto 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:59.360 alongside his writing and performing partner Hart Pomerantz. But it 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:03.720 wasn't television. Lord Michael started out in radio. It was 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:06.360 a show called five nights a week at this time, 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:11.160 and we did political satire every week. We thought we 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:15.320 were potentially bringing down the government, and the fact that 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:18.280 no one was listening didn't occur to us for at 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:21.160 least the first year. But we loved doing it. It 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:23.399 was just a chance to write and perform every week. 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:27.280 Radio had a larger budget at that point than television 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:30.080 because people had more radios than the television. It's just 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:33.920 it's a government system and they allocated based on fairness, 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:38.360 which is very Canadian thing to do, not necessarily on 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:43.000 the edge of technological change. But there was a radio 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:49.040 show produced like the Tonight Show, full orchestra, done every 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:52.720 day in Toronto, which was called The Rust Thompson Show. 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:55.640 And we were hard as the writers on that and 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:58.200 we performed once or twice a week. Now where did 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:00.000 that begin though? For you? Did you go to school 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:01.680 for that or did you? No, no, no, no, I 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:06.000 went when I graduated from University of Toronto. I had 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:10.320 taken nothing that was of any pro drama theater. I'd 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:13.360 worked in theater there, but it was more. There was 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:19.160 a review that University College UC Follies, which was a 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:23.959 satirical review music and comedy, and I co wrote that 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:26.720 and directed it. So so from the beginning, I mean, 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:32.680 even before you go into CBC radio and before Hard 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:36.040 Palmer ants there, even in college what you characterize a 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:40.000 satiric review, comedy review, that was your bailiy Wick from 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:41.640 the beginning. I think it was what was in the 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:45.560 air at the time. It was just the beginning of 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:48.519 the questioning of authority. Which was the year I did 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:52.360 it was we were no longer talking about World War Two. 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:55.880 The first part of my childhood, that's all anyone talked about. 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:58.760 Every teacher I had at school had been in the war. 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:01.839 It was pretty much the gloom of that hung over 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:06.560 most of the fifties s. Yeah, and then we television 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:10.080 came into our lives and and everything changed, and so 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:13.440 the CBC. How long are the radio years? The radio years? 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:15.959 Think three years. The funny part about the show, the 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:19.639 Russ Thompson Show, was at a certain point, five or 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:22.079 six months into it, the producer of the show came 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:24.400 in and met with us and he said, the show's 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:28.800 not working. We don't know whether it's you guys or Russ. 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:32.320 So we thought we'd start with you guys. So we 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:36.880 were the first, Yeah, and then we began writing for 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:40.160 comedians Woody Allen and John Rivers and a little bit 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:42.680 Dick Cabin. How do you get into that door? Heart? 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:45.680 Heart did that. He was very good at approaching people. 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:48.800 We would come down to New York to write for 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:55.960 people and what he was incredibly generous and encouraging, and 0:03:56.320 --> 0:03:58.800 we had no impact at all on his career, but 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:02.440 he was very helpful. Then we got hired on a 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:07.920 television show in as writers called The Beautiful Phillis Dealers 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:12.840 Show and which was a variety show at NBC in Burbank. 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:15.680 And then from there, when that was canceled, we were 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:18.200 hired on Lapin, which was in its first season for 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:21.520 George for George laughter, Yeah, what was the dynamic when 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:24.240 you go to Los Angeles in the late sixties and 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:26.560 you're writing for network television? Did you feel like that 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:29.120 was It wasn't at all the romantic idea of what 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:32.919 I thought being in show business would be well. On 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:36.840 lap In, the writers would write and then it would 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:40.719 be edited by a head writer, and then we did 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:43.440 not go to the read through. We were at at 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.159 a motel in Burbank, uh and we would all have 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:48.240 lunch together and that was fun. I didn't even have 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:50.960 to have offices. No, we had offices, but they were 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:55.039 in a motel, which was you know, it was the 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:59.880 boom period of Burbank. So um, it's not let NBC. No, 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:03.000 we've used offices that our motels before exactly. Yeah. And 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:06.960 what was interesting about it was that it was the 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:10.640 number one show and on one level it was like 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:13.440 the greatest credit you could have, and it certainly did 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:17.800 wonders for you know, like self image and career, but 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:22.400 it wasn't fun. You'd write, you know, monologues for Dan 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:24.960 and Dick, who were really nice to us. Did you 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:26.679 get to go to the tapings of the show. We'd 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:29.440 go to the studio if they were doing the monologues, 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:32.599 and they would read it from the cards. They would 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:34.159 see it for the first they were some of the 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:37.640 most famous card readers, but they also just they would 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:39.440 just see it for the first time on the car. 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:43.520 They did not want their work in any way interfere 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:45.880 with their life. And we worked there for a year 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:49.839 and then I got a call from the head of 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:53.360 the CBC asking what it would take to bring us 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:56.479 back to do shows. You were still hard on television yeah, 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:58.800 and that's where I learned how to do television. Why 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:03.239 do you say that, because I spent a huge chunk 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:06.440 of my twenties, you know, in an editing room. We 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:08.760 would shoot in the studio, we'd be in front of 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:10.920 an audience and then what were you doing? It was 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:15.480 called The Heart and Louren Terrific Hour, and we were 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:19.880 the stars. Yeah, and there was you know, one ensemble 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:24.200 and a musical guest James Taylor was on one. Cat 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:27.200 Stevens Birth. The idea for the other show that you 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:29.120 eventually wound up doing. I don't know whether you know. 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:31.960 There was a real form then called Variety, and it 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:35.520 was comedy Variety and it had you know, music and comedy, 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:39.320 and we would perform in front of an audience, but 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:41.480 mostly it was built in the editing room. And the 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:44.360 way that laughed in was I remember that we came 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:48.120 out of the first show with like sixteen hours worth 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:51.240 of tape and I met with the editor. I had 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:54.080 no experience of it at all, and he said, well, 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:56.039 we just why don't we just watch it? So we 0:06:56.120 --> 0:07:00.440 watched the first four hours. We were discussing a catch. 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:04.880 He said, I think in that piece we could pull 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:07.520 out that part and I was still thinking script. I 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:11.360 wasn't in any way thinking visually. And he said, no, 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:14.600 your arm there is is by your temple and then 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:17.360 you put it down. And he was looking for continuity. 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:20.320 He was an editor, he actually saw it. I said, 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:22.880 how did you do that? And he said, I can 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:27.120 teach your eye to see, and he did. I learned 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:30.040 how things are put together, and how what to look 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:33.880 for in composition, and how to make something work, and 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:36.960 the role that sound played because it's all radio with pictures. 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:41.000 Nobody cared about sound then. When we first did SNL 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:44.120 the first five years, it was a boom. When you 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:47.640 see Elvis Son ed Sullivan him in the Jordan eires, 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:50.840 it's just a boom. They got what they got. We 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:53.400 have better sound on this interview than I had in 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:56.360 the first twenty years of my career. And what I 0:07:56.480 --> 0:08:01.360 realized then about myself is that I'm much more interested 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:06.960 in the production that I am in performing. What changed 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:11.200 for you? I saw it in the editing room one night. 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:15.440 I looked at myself before a take. I see my 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:19.360 eyes checking the lighting, seeing where the cameras are in 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:22.360 terms of their angles, and you're seeing a guy who 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:25.600 all his instincts are technical and director just kind of look, yeah, 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:31.040 I'm seeing a guy who's preoccupied, and then the slate happens, 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:35.320 and then there's this smiling artificial Yeah. Snap, too artificial. 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:41.720 I'm sure I was sincere Yeah, yeah, allow in my opinion, 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:45.480 speaking for myself, as a little artificial, yes, exactly, we reached. 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:48.320 I had the same experience when I was on stage 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:50.679 when I was at University of Toronto in the theater 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:54.760 there and we were doing a play written by Shelley 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:57.560 the Poet and it was called en Chi I think, 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:00.560 definitely dull. But that's not the point of the point 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:02.360 of it is I was in the middle of a 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:05.640 scene with an actor and it was exciting to be 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:08.000 on stage and all that. But I looked in his 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:14.000 eyes and I realized, Oh, he's actually that guy. You know. 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:16.800 I knew he turned lines with some charm, but he 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:20.160 actually had turned more character. Yeah, which I thought, Oh, 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:24.439 I see that's what actors are. They actually can do that, 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:28.720 you know. Whereas yes, for me, it was like it 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:30.800 was fun to be in shows and I've done them 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:33.200 at summer camp and I've done them in high school 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:37.000 and and uh, but you had a pure instinct at 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:39.000 that time where you just said, there's this other thing 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:41.080 I'd rather be doing that I was more and you 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:44.560 walked away, So so you So you ended that situation there. Ye, Well, 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:48.760 in Canada there was still a kind of national self loading, 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:53.040 best expressed by the then head of the CBC. We 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:57.200 were slow in getting our start dates for production for 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:02.320 the next season, and I had been offered by Sandy 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:04.960 Warnick and Burdy Brulstein, who I had met when I 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:09.440 was working in California, agent and manager respectively. They said, 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:11.480 you want to come back and work on a Burnston 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:16.200 Shriver summer show for like Yeah they were and they 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:19.680 were funny and it was like smart shows. In ten weeks, 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:22.800 I went to the the head of the department at 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:25.480 the CBC and I said, I have this other offer, 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:28.520 but I will stay here. At the time, I was 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:32.160 caught up in the idea that I would be of 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:35.120 the first generation of Canadian artists who would be able 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:37.679 to stay in Canada. And why is that? Why did 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:41.680 you feel that because everyone had always left and the 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:45.080 moment that you left in Canada, people started to treat 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:48.560 you differently, and I thought, well, that's idiotic. We should 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:51.520 be were involved enough, we should be able to stay 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:55.280 here and work here. They had the CBC that I 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:58.520 was working for, said, I said, I had this offer 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:02.640 and it's just for you know, ten weeks. He said, well, 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:05.920 if you're that good, why are you here? And I thought, 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:08.480 I want to be here that you know. And then 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:13.080 I realized against Yeah, And also I realized is Van 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:17.440 Gogh a Dutch painter. He really painted in France. And 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:20.400 I thought, oh, I see, so nationalism isn't the best 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:22.120 way to you know, you go where the work is. 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:25.439 So I went out and I did that, and then 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:29.120 I came back. Even as we're talking about Canada, your 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:33.480 accent just came back, you just said, I went out. Yeah, 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:37.720 I realized I'd come to the end of that period, 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:43.760 and I moved back to California ninety two, and I 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:46.800 lived at the Chateau Marmont un till I moved here, 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:51.240 which is seventy five. I had my thirtieth birthday in 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:53.400 the lobby of the Chateau Marmont, which hadn't had a 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:58.680 party then, I believe since lived there. Yeah, so certainly 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:00.680 one of the happiest parents of myne. You we're gonna 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:02.840 get to that in a minute. But you have a 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:05.320 real fondness from Los Angeles. Yeah, I love you have 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:07.319 a Yeah, you have a very very warm spot for 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:11.319 Los Angeles and you who are New Yorker. Yes, the 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:13.600 nice part about being Canadian is you don't have to 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:16.880 make that decision. You know, you're in California and it's 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:20.600 there's grass in February and the sun is shining. You know, 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:23.240 this is fantastic. But if you're from New York, then 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:25.920 l A becomes like, well, no, you know, it becomes 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:28.520 that it's a lot of people get an entire career. 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:31.360 Well I think different. That's true, and I've been very 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:34.120 guilty of that myself. The thing about Los Angeles is 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:37.800 if you do it in your twenties, you can find 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:42.240 and understand sepulvida, which is if you grew up in 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.080 a city with a grid, you're going, well, so what 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:47.480 do you mean this crosses will Shire? And then then 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.320 if you're on that s you get off at Robertson 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:56.240 and you think you're up here. Yes, exactly. But when 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:58.000 you're in your twenties, you're going to a lot of 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:00.840 parties where you're just following some to or somebody gives 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:03.800 you directions and this is at a time it's hard 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:06.959 to recall, but it's pre gps. No, no one wants 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:09.800 to learn where they're going. But anyway, I had a 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:12.400 very happy time there and I worked for Lily Tomlin 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:17.200 and I wrote on her show, which was like ten 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:20.760 or twelve weeks, and at the end of it it 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:23.000 was time to go back to Canada, and I realized 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:26.760 I wasn't visa wise, I wasn't going back. No, it 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:29.600 wasn't that. It was that the CBC wanted me to 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:32.200 do something, but they want to be back six months 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:34.560 in advance of that nagging I'm gonna be the normal 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:37.360 leader of Canada or no, not even normally. I think 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:39.319 it was just that you would be able to work there. 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:43.000 But here's what I realized, without Malcolm Gladibo, who's also 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:45.800 a Canadian, articulating it, because we didn't have the benefit 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:49.880 of that, then it's the ten thousand hours in doing 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:53.720 twelve shows in ten weeks. Working at that pace, you 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:57.120 get better. In Canada, working on a show every four 0:13:57.200 --> 0:14:01.079 months or five months, you overthink every thing. There's so 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:04.880 much at stake, and there was something about working at 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:08.360 that pace and working in a system that was really 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:11.480 clear cut, like if the numbers were there and you 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:15.000 had ratings, then you were hit, and they weren't there, 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:18.720 then you were a flop, Whereas in Canada you could 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:23.000 be sustained by quote unquote critical approval or the fact 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:26.720 that what you were doing was quote unquote worthwhile. And 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:28.480 at that point in my life I kind of needed 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:30.800 clarity of which is one of the reasons I'm drawn 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:34.600 to comedy, because you're trying really hard to make people laugh. 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:40.160 If they don't laugh, it's really so I do. Lily 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:42.960 Thomas Show gets nominated for an Emmy. It was a 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:47.080 pilot special four series and I am co producing with 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:50.800 Jane Wagner. We spent forever on it and then at 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:54.400 the end it didn't get picked up. But Dick Eversoul, 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:57.880 who was the new newly appointed head of late Night, 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:01.680 had come from ABC Sports and had meant Herbschlosser on 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:03.840 a plane and by the time they landed he was 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:07.520 the director of late night Television and he had this 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:12.440 idea of doing many pilots in late night, using late 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:16.160 night to be a testing ground for prime time. It 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:18.720 was actually kind of prophetic because now when you look 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:21.840 at prime time, all the networks, almost all the creative 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:24.920 talent came from late night. I agreed to do one 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:27.440 for Dick. And I was, as I said, living at 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:30.440 the Barmont, and I came home one night two o'clock 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:34.320 in the morning, which was not unusual for me, and uh, 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:37.720 there was a message from Dick. Could you be at 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:41.480 the poll Lounge at seven o'clock in the morning for breakfast? 0:15:42.120 --> 0:15:44.680 No better for me then than it is now. And 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:47.920 I went, um, okay, what's it about it? And he 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:52.880 said they decided to do one show as opposed to 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:58.040 twenty pilots, and yours is one of the ones that there, 0:15:58.040 --> 0:15:59.800 and they all want to meet you. So I came 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:03.960 and it was Dick and the head of programming, the 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:07.600 head of research, and the head of talent. I could 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:10.400 kind of tell that they were like tribal elders in 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:12.160 a way. They were just sort of looking at me 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:14.800 like is he all right? You know? It was just 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:18.240 basically an approval process. But I seem normal enough, and 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:22.000 was I, you know, trouble I had lost. That's interesting 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:24.600 because because that's was ever thus in the business where 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:27.680 I mean, talent is not the only coin of the realm. 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:29.920 I totally want to realize, can we hand you a 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:33.080 lot of money? And it does he seem like a 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:36.680 plaque or whatever? And I and I was just turned thirty, 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:39.440 but I did have credits and I hadn't been nominated 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:41.880 for stuff. And Dick called me and he said it 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:44.280 went well, and then they wanted me to fly to 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:46.960 New York and how do you feel about that? I 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:51.200 was excited by it. But Herb Schlausser, who had a 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:55.840 very romantic notion of production in New York, I thought 0:16:55.880 --> 0:17:01.400 it should be live. Well, I'd never done live except 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:03.600 for radio. And I said, what was everybody else in 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:05.600 the processing? Was he the lone voice? He was the 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:07.480 lone voice. He decided that it should be an eight 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:10.240 age because eight h was the big NBC studio and 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:13.400 it was lying vacant, and all of the production moved 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:16.359 to l A. All variety was in l all of 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:19.680 that crap music hall, all of those variety series which 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:22.600 were done in New York. In this building was all 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:27.359 in everything with the Angeles. Yeah, exactly for me, live 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:34.400 meant this no pilot, having done three pilots that everybody 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:38.679 thought were great. But then somewhere in the process of 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:43.240 making a pilot, all your most conservative instincts come out 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:45.600 and you find yourself doing the thing that you think 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:48.399 is going to be It's like a college essay. Is 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:51.360 what you really think or feel, it's what you think 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:53.200 will get you in or get you on the air. 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.879 So the idea that I could do a show in 0:17:56.920 --> 0:17:59.720 which the audience would see it at the same time 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:03.920 as the network was truly and also I was at 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:05.800 a point in my career where I really thought I 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:08.440 had nothing to lose, so I was gonna take one 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:10.480 more shot at television. I was gonna see if I 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:12.480 could do it the way I wanted to do it, 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:18.159 and I pretty much did. The very first broadcast of 0:18:18.200 --> 0:18:26.119 the show live was when in September. October oct is 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:28.720 the first broadcast of the show, and was the structure 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:34.040 virtually the same it is now. Yeah, the yeah, that 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:36.159 part was all the same, although I think for the 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:39.800 first show we did address rehearsal with the audience on 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:43.240 Friday night just so that we'd have an extra one 0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:46.200 because we've never actually done anything. And the crew was 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:48.840 very funny. The crew was like an original Old New 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:53.680 York crew. They were all mildly overweight, they had donuts. 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:56.680 We had crew to tay because we were from California, 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:01.080 Jets jackets on. Yeah, and until we saw the move 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:05.399 the cameras around in the way that they could because 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:08.840 they knew that that world. I once did a show 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:13.080 at CBS in their big studio and they have no 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:16.480 tradition of this over at CBS, and I realized when 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:21.240 I had taken the tour that all the cameras had 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:25.639 stools beside them. It was only later when I realized 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:30.879 the show was a complete mess. Right, They haven't moved 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:34.120 cameras there. They just sort of aimed it at Cronkite 0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:37.120 for the last forty years. It was that they set 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:38.960 up their camera and then they sit on their stool. 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:42.520 The eight ah crew that crane flew around the studio. 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:44.960 They learned that we knew what we were doing in 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:50.159 terms of the content, and this is gonna be interesting 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:53.199 for them as well. Wasn't a desk and what was 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:55.920 coming back to New York. There's a wonderful story when 0:19:56.160 --> 0:19:59.280 Eugene Lee, who's the designer I hired, who had just 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:04.320 done Candy It on Broadway. We did the very first set, 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:07.359 you know, and it was like a two dollar set. 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:11.680 I couldn't get approval, like they wouldn't authorize the budget 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:15.439 for it. I went up to Herb Schlauster's office. I 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:18.080 just assumed, being Canadian, that I was just supposed to 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:20.760 do the right thing and make a show that he 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:24.000 would be proud of since he had authorized it. So 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:26.160 we took it to his office, you know, very high 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:28.120 up in the building, and it was a little modeled, 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:29.719 and I don't think you've ever seen a model, And 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:32.560 suddenly we're moving little cameras around and all that, and 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:34.320 he said, well, what's the problem. I said, well, they 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:37.240 you know, it's it's expensive, and they, oh fine, And 0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:40.159 we got the approval and it was very paternal in 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:43.600 the best sense of it. But Eugene had a very 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:46.480 clear sense of what he wanted. We were showing New 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:48.560 York City as it then was, which was kind of 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:52.320 in decay and crumblings. So forward to New York drop 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:57.159 dead exactly. Yes. So when Herb came down to the 0:20:57.200 --> 0:21:00.520 studio the first time to see it and looked at 0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:03.200 the cracked paint, you know, the thing which was where 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:05.359 all the money was. Of course, in terms of getting 0:21:05.400 --> 0:21:08.480 that exactly right, he said, I can't I don't know why, 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:09.800 you know, I don't know what I was thinking that. 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:13.439 I just thought the shop did this, you know, because 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:17.560 he just said it was a really bad and yeah, no, 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:20.880 it was just that nobody knew whether production could gear 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:23.280 up again in New York, and of course it did 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:28.560 and still does. So when you do the show October eleven, 0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:33.840 the first show is broadcast live at Years, and when 0:21:33.880 --> 0:21:37.280 it's over, describe how you feel after the very first show. 0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:39.119 I was the same way then that I am now. 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:42.080 I only see the mistakes, and I tend to wear 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:46.159 that up until about the second drink at the party. 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:50.760 Even last week's show. It takes me really through midway 0:21:50.800 --> 0:21:52.520 through Sunday. You just take me a couple of days. 0:21:52.560 --> 0:21:54.760 I can get over it now in a day. Because 0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:57.359 you're always hoping that everything's gonna work the way you 0:21:57.359 --> 0:21:59.560 were hoping it was gonna work. You know, what you 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:03.119 see of something? Yeah, and you see somebody you know 0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:05.080 on the left foot instead of the right foot, or 0:22:05.200 --> 0:22:09.600 the camera cut is late, or that Q gets screwed up, 0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:12.560 or that or somebody stuck guy right before the slate 0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:15.800 was looking at things. Yeah. Never, he's still here. He's 0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:29.680 not going anywhere. Yeah, more from my conversation with Lauren 0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:32.239 Michael's is coming up in a minute. You're listening to. 0:22:32.600 --> 0:22:58.080 Here's the thing. We're in your office here at NBC, Yes, 0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:00.680 which has been your office from day one, from day one, 0:23:00.800 --> 0:23:03.200 from day one, and most of the furniture is exactly 0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:06.159 most of the first exactly the same. The joke is 0:23:06.280 --> 0:23:08.640