1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:10,719 Speaker 1: Thing from iHeart Radio. If you've passed through Bradley International 3 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: Airport recently, you may have noticed a sixty foot long, 4 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: twenty foot wide, life size portrait of a sperm whale 5 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 1: made from discarded plastic bags and shipping mailers. The piece 6 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 1: was created by My Guest Today as part of her 7 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: ongoing Entangled and Ingested art series. Tat Owens is not 8 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: only an ambitious artist, she is also a plastic pollution researcher, activist, 9 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: and professor. Owens merges science, policy and the arts to 10 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: create life size portraits of the animals harmed by plastic 11 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: pollution to raise environmental awareness. Caat Owens is also a 12 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: National Geographic Explorer, Fulbright Nehrew Fellow and a professor at 13 00:00:55,640 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: the University of Hartford in Connecticut. Owens seamlessly blacken her 14 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: visual art with her day to day work. I wanted 15 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: to know if she first considered herself to be an 16 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: artist or an environmentalist. 17 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 2: That's a good question. I would say an artist first. Definitely. 18 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 2: From a young age, I was very interested in drawing 19 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 2: and making things, and fortunately was able to get some 20 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:24,759 Speaker 2: art lessons and things before I got to school age 21 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 2: where it was available through schools. And then I went 22 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 2: to college, the College of Charleston in South Carolina, and 23 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 2: I was a studio art major there and got exposed 24 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 2: to all kinds of amazing things painting, printmaking, a little 25 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 2: bit of sculpture drawing. But when I was at college, 26 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 2: the subject matter for all of my work was insects. 27 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 2: I was really into bugs. 28 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, so bugs came into the picture when. 29 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 2: In high school I had a high school biology class 30 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 2: where we had to do a bug collection. And I 31 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 2: was always like an outdoorsy kind of kid, but that's 32 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 2: when I started collecting bug And then I went to 33 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 2: college and I was kind of just you know, your 34 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 2: art teacher says like make something, and you don't know 35 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 2: what to make, right, you know, Nothing's like your brain's 36 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,519 Speaker 2: not working like that yet, really like thinking about deep 37 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 2: thoughts quite yet. So I was like, oh, I'm going 38 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 2: to make I've got all these insects, I'm going to 39 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 2: start making art. And so I really got into it 40 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 2: and would be like I was the bug girl at 41 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 2: my college and people would bring me bugs. I would 42 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 2: go out to bars and people would be like Oh 43 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 2: my god, I found this great moth. I'm going to 44 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 2: bring it to you to the studio next week and 45 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 2: they would, which was really fun. Then I graduated with 46 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 2: an art degree, and back then in the nineties, they 47 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 2: were kind of like, yeah, good luck. No information about 48 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 2: like how to start a career. They said, if you're lucky, 49 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 2: after you're dead, people might be interested in your art work. 50 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 2: So I waitressed for two years and then I was like, 51 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,679 Speaker 2: you know, I think I'd like to study science more formally, 52 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 2: and so I sat in on an entomology class. The 53 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 2: professor at the College of Charleston let me in on 54 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 2: his class, and I really loved it, and so then 55 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 2: I decided to take the plunge. I went back to 56 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 2: school and got degrees in biology and anthropology and all 57 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 2: the work what I was doing was connected to insects. Why, well, 58 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 2: they're fascinating. 59 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,079 Speaker 1: No, I mean, I agree, there are great I watched 60 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: my share of insect documentaries, But like, you really go 61 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: down this road, I mean, you get degrees and all 62 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: these really really heady subjects. What was the goal? Where 63 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 1: were you? You weren't going to be an artist, you 64 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: were going to do what. 65 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 2: I thought at the time that I would be a scientist, 66 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 2: that I would go to graduate school and study entomology. 67 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 2: I was especially into beatles, and I started a master's 68 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 2: degree at the College of Charleston and environmental studies, and 69 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 2: I was on the brink of doing a project about 70 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 2: ground beetles in the Smoky Mountains and I loved it. 71 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 2: But then over time I had realized, if you're an entomologist, 72 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 2: you spend like six weeks out collecting bugs and the 73 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 2: rest of the year looking through microscopes counting leg parts. Know, 74 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 2: And I thought, I don't know if I if I 75 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 2: want to spend the rest of my life indoors looking 76 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 2: through a microscope. And so I got more interested in 77 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 2: sort of like the environmental policy side of things. And 78 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 2: so I switched from the science track to the policy 79 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 2: track in my master's program and started. 80 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 1: Studying this is where's what's school at. 81 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 2: The College of Charleston in South Carolina? 82 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: And what is this place you went? It's called twin It's. 83 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 2: Called University of Fenta in the Netherlands. 84 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:32,239 Speaker 1: And you were there how long a while? 85 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 2: Almost five years? It was amazing that was for what program? 86 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 2: It was a PhD program in sustainability and governance. 87 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 1: So you have Do you have a PhD? You finished? Yeah? 88 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 2: Definitely, My god. 89 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 1: What was it like studying that there? 90 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 2: Very cool? I mean I loved being in the Netherlands, 91 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 2: you know, no car biking everywhere. Wonderful place to be, 92 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 2: sort of like young and broke. I have my two 93 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 2: oldest children. I had the there because it was free 94 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 2: and you got all kinds of support. 95 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 1: How old are your kids now? 96 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 2: They are just turning. Their birthdays are last week and 97 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 2: next week, twenty and eighteen. 98 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: No, yeah, what does your husband do? 99 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 2: He at the time, he was for a long time 100 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 2: he was building timber barns out of like you know 101 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 2: they do like hand barn raising. 102 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,239 Speaker 1: Sure, and very expensive barns. 103 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know a guy if you need a cheap one. 104 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 2: But he did that for a long time, and then 105 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:32,799 Speaker 2: about ten years ago he's like, I can't keep climbing 106 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 2: up these ladders, like this is I'm getting too old 107 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 2: for this. And he went back to school and now 108 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 2: he teaches botany in Connecticut. 109 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 1: So you stayed five years in the Netherlands. Yeah, but 110 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: that's what it took for you to do the program 111 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: the doctor. Yeah, and the degree was in what again. 112 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 2: It's governance and sustainability. It's like environmental policy, right. 113 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 1: And when you went into that knowing it was going 114 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: to be five years of your life, what was the goal? Meaning? 115 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: Year along the way before you started making artwork of 116 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 1: innocent animals being contaminated and poisoned by our hands. What 117 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: was the goal before? Were you thinking of going into 118 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: some kind of administrative job, or you wanted an appointment, 119 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: you wanted to work for a state, you wanted to 120 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: run for office. What was the goal then? 121 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 2: I think, I, you know, I had all these degrees, right, 122 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 2: I spent a lot of time as an undergraduate. I 123 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 2: loved the professors I had, and I thought I want 124 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 2: to be like them. I want to get a PhD 125 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 2: and teach at a university. And that's how I ended 126 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 2: up kind of on that track. 127 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: When you finished in the University of Venta, when you 128 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:39,279 Speaker 1: graduated from that. 129 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 2: What year was that two thousand and eight? 130 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: Okay, so that's a while ago, that's seventeen years ago. 131 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: And what was the plan you were going to go do? 132 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 2: What? 133 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: And what happened? 134 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 2: I started looking for jobs at colleges, at universities, full 135 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:55,919 Speaker 2: time teaching jobs. Yeah, that's when I came over. My 136 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 2: husband was doing the timber framing at that time, and 137 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 2: he was like, can we go somewhere where there are 138 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 2: trees and barns, like a history of trees and barns, 139 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 2: And so we were almost exclusively looking in New England. 140 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 2: And I applied for the job at the University of 141 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 2: Hartford and I got that and I've been there for 142 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 2: eighteen years. 143 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: So nothing in your academic career revisited Georgia. When you 144 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: grew up in Georgia, you left Georgia never to return. 145 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 2: I mean, I go to sea family, but I haven't 146 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 2: lived there since I was eighteen. 147 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: Now. 148 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 2: I lived in Charleston for ten years, and then the Netherlands, 149 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 2: and then I've been in Connecticut ever since. 150 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: When you started this work, what did you see like 151 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: for me, I see that plastics pollution has usurped many 152 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: other environmental issues because everybody's under the impression we've all 153 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: been contaminated by massive amounts of plastics pollution. What was 154 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: the thing that alarmed you that you decided you wanted 155 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: to pivot into this art project you've been doing. 156 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 2: I was playing around with it as early as twenty twelve, 157 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 2: but I really started during the pandemic, doing the the artwork, 158 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 2: and focusing on this particular project. So at that time, 159 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 2: I'd been studying water policy for about twenty years, and 160 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 2: plastic pollution started to be a big issue within environmental 161 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 2: policy and water policy. And the more I looked at it, 162 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 2: I knew in Connecticut, on Long Island Sound, we weren't 163 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 2: one of these places like you can see stories on 164 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 2: the Midway Islands in Hawaii where they just get like 165 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 2: tons of plastic like showing up on their islands. And 166 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 2: I knew we weren't one of those kinds of places. 167 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 2: But I wanted to know sort of like what this 168 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 2: big global problem looked like in my neck of the woods. 169 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:40,319 Speaker 2: So I applied for funding from NOAH, the National Oceanic 170 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 2: and Atmospheric Administration, and the idea of the project was 171 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 2: that I would take my students from the University of 172 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 2: Hartford and we'd go down to the beach and collect 173 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 2: debris and analyze it and then share the results with policymakers, 174 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:57,199 Speaker 2: like I wanted to make that connection. 175 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: Between state or federal. 176 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 2: State level policymakers, so we did that. That was funding 177 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 2: that I got in twenty sixteen to do that project. 178 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 2: And it was really fun, really cool experience for my students. 179 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 2: And then based on that, I applied for funding from 180 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 2: the Fulbright Foundation to replicate that project in a place 181 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 2: called Thoruvn and Thaperam, India, which is in southwest India. 182 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 2: And it's the same idea. We go, we collect debris 183 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 2: and we analyze it, we use scientific methods to do 184 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 2: it and then share the results with policymakers. And you know, 185 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 2: while I was there, I got it funded from the 186 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 2: National Geographic Society too, to train other folks from around 187 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 2: India in these methods. 188 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: Did they have a lot of money available for that 189 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: kind of thing? 190 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 2: National Geographic Society they have a really strong grant program 191 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 2: and once you get in the door as an explorer, 192 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 2: they offer all kinds of like really great opportunities to 193 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 2: collaborate with other explorers and do all kinds of neat projects. 194 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 2: So I'm very grateful. 195 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: No these grants or grants that we might assume maybe 196 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: not that are going to evaporate pretty soon. 197 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,719 Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, National Geographic is independent, but 198 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 2: Noah has certainly been impacted. 199 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: Right, That's what I's referring to. 200 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:15,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, which is a shame, right, because it's 201 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 2: really about like protecting resources for all of us that 202 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 2: are critical for our survival, something we should all care about. 203 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: Well, you know, for me, the beginnings or some of 204 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 1: the beginnings of this. I mean, I've worked with people 205 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,959 Speaker 1: at U n EP, the former U n DP Development Program. 206 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: I've worked with people for years now, and much of 207 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: it related to plastics pollution. And you know, some of 208 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:42,319 Speaker 1: the initial you know, pulsing, dramatic presentations were about the 209 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: Pacific garbage gyre out there throwing off all kinds of 210 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: you know, it's just a piece of a giant garbage 211 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:54,079 Speaker 1: jump leeching plastic into the water in the baking sun, 212 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 1: the size of Rhode Island or whatever the hell it 213 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: is now Texas. Okay, Well, I was hoping you wouldn't 214 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: say that, But I'm so sorry, Saith, but the I 215 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: don't want to discourage our listeners. But when I was young, 216 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: recycling was it you were told and if you could 217 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: compose or whatever, you know. I made efforts in all 218 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:18,559 Speaker 1: those areas. But now plastics pollution seems to be the devil. 219 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: I mean, everybody's really, really, really uptight about this. When 220 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: did you first become aware of this and what kind 221 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: of work were you doing even as a child. 222 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 2: I mean, I wasn't really engaged on things around plastic 223 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 2: and climate change or things like that as a child. 224 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 2: My awareness came much later because I am from a 225 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,679 Speaker 2: very small town, rural town in Georgia. But you know, 226 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 2: it's definitely for me in college and then later in 227 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 2: graduate school and even as someone who studies it. You know, 228 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 2: my eyes have been opened so much over the last 229 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 2: decade about recycling and what's really happening with recycling. I 230 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 2: do recycle. I try to recycle, but it doesn't make 231 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 2: me feel good all the time because I don't truly 232 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 2: believe that a lot of the recycling is happening. 233 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: Right being handled properly. 234 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And so what happened in twenty eighteen or 235 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, China put this policy in place called the 236 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 2: National Sword Policy, where they said they were no longer 237 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 2: going to take our basically like shredded bales of plastic 238 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 2: and recycle them anymore. And when that happened, the sort 239 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 2: of market for recycling disappeared because no one wants it. 240 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 2: And so I know that, you know, whereas local government's, 241 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 2: municipal governments used to get a little bit of money. 242 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 2: I mean it probably added up to like a couple 243 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 2: ten thousand dollars, you know, for a town like my 244 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 2: town over the year. Now there's no market for it. 245 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: Researcher, activist, and artist kat Owens. If you enjoy conversations 246 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: with artists inspired by nature, check out my episode with 247 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: photographer Carolyn Marx Blackwood. So singing writing the photography on 248 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: that level, do they overlap. 249 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:09,439 Speaker 3: Yes, and they overlap to this day, I'm doing photography. 250 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:14,079 Speaker 3: I'm having museum shows that are coming up, i have 251 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 3: galleries where I have shows, and I'm making movies with 252 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 3: my partner. So when one part of my brain gets tired, 253 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 3: I go to the other thing, and it's just a 254 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 3: whole other part of my brain. It's wonderful. 255 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: To hear my conversation with Carolyn Marx Blackwood. Go to 256 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: Here's the Thing dot Org. After the break, kat Owens 257 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 1: talks about the goal behind her Entangled and Ingested series 258 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: and what she is trying to say through art. I'm 259 00:13:55,920 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Has 260 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: traveled the world for her research. After attending college in Charleston, 261 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:08,599 Speaker 1: Owens spent five years in the Netherlands completing her PhD. 262 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: She continued her research in Finland, India, Indonesia, and Uganda. 263 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: These days, Owens resides in Connecticut and teaches at the 264 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: University of Hartford. Owens and her students gather samples and 265 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: data from marine debris collected along the Connecticut shorelines. Having 266 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: lived and studied in so many unique places across the world, 267 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: I wanted to know what drew Owens to Connecticut. 268 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 2: I applied to a few universities in the Northeast for 269 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 2: a job, and I came to Hartford, and I really 270 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 2: loved it. It has a real potential for interdisciplinary work 271 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 2: because it has a music school, an art school, an 272 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 2: engineering school, a College of Arts and Sciences, a business school. 273 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 2: So it's got a lot of depth, even though it's 274 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 2: a really small institution, relatively small institution. So I thought 275 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 2: that would be that they might kind of get my 276 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 2: whole interdisciplinary way of doing things and it might be more, 277 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 2: you know, just like a good place to grow and thrive. 278 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 2: And then they hired me, so like that all came together. 279 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, they're geniuses if they hired me. Now described for me. 280 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: You said you started this that the artwork, the specific 281 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: artwork we're talking about in doing COVID, and interesting how 282 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,120 Speaker 1: a lot of people needed something like that to soothe 283 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: them and we all had our way to negotiate our 284 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: way through COVID. Described to me the genesis of the pieces, 285 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: described me, how that process begins. Is it all recycled material? 286 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: Described to me what you're making as an artist. 287 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, So this began during COVID when all of that 288 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 2: research that I was doing out in the field got 289 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 2: canceled and my regular job. And it's true, I'm sure 290 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 2: for everyone who was in education at any level at 291 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 2: that time, like it just exploded into all this terrible 292 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 2: you know, you're stuck in these meetings, you're making choices 293 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 2: that aren't great. And I was really stuck in a 294 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 2: lot of ZOOM meetings at that time and struggling with 295 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 2: it because I'd just come back from India. I had 296 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 2: all this kind of momentum behind my work and I 297 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 2: thought like things are really coming together, like maybe we 298 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 2: can change policy on this issue. So what I started 299 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 2: to do is to create these life size portraits of 300 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 2: different species that are harmed by plastic pollution, such as well, 301 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 2: I mean, they're over five hundred of them. 302 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: Sure, what was your first one? 303 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 2: The fairy penguin, which is a little, a little cute 304 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 2: blue penguin that I believe is from It goes between 305 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 2: South Africa and Antarctica. I'm not a penguin. 306 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: Why that animal? 307 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 2: Why it's cute and it's small. I started small because 308 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 2: I wasn't. So what I do is I hand so 309 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 2: film plastics onto canvas to make these portraits. 310 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: When you say film plastics, you mean what by that? 311 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 2: I mean any kind of like soft PLI A plastic 312 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 2: that's not too. 313 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: Thick, plastic bags. 314 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's plastic bags. It's a lot of like food packaging, 315 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 2: a lot of mailers, you know from online stores. 316 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: Remember like the little window you cut out? 317 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,880 Speaker 2: No, not that that's cellulos. I don't really worry about 318 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 2: that because I'm often looking for colors, not for clear plastic. 319 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: Right too. You have a storage facility for this material? 320 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 2: I mean I have a lot of bins, and my 321 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 2: biggest problem is that people save it for me, and 322 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 2: they give it to me and it's almost too much 323 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 2: for me to process. I've had to ask and I 324 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 2: only have like four or five people who save stuff 325 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 2: for me. And then give it to me. But it's 326 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 2: overwhelming because there's so much. And you know, I have 327 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 2: one friend. Every time we go for a walk, she 328 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 2: hands me like a bag of garbage because it's all 329 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 2: the stuff her family, you know, the squash they eat 330 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 2: and the fruit that they make smoothies from. It all 331 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 2: comes in these plastic bags. 332 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: So the first one you did, and when you say 333 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: life size, what's the biggest issue made? 334 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 2: So the biggest one I've made so far is the 335 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 2: sixty foot sperm whale. It's sixty feet long. 336 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: No, yeah, and you did this? Where where do you? 337 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:11,439 Speaker 1: Where's your studio? 338 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 2: My studio is not that big post COVID. In my town, Middletown, Connecticut, 339 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 2: the downtown business district was trying to get people onto 340 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 2: main street because people had stopped going outside right And 341 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 2: there was an old Woolworth's building and they let me 342 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 2: get in there and use it a local kids museum 343 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,159 Speaker 2: built like some walls around the front of it. It's 344 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 2: a place called kid City, and they let me use 345 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 2: it as an open studio for six months, which was huge. 346 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 2: I mean I never would have been able to do 347 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 2: that in my living room. And I had just open 348 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 2: studio days where people could show up. A lot of 349 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 2: people would just walk by and kind of say, like, 350 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 2: what is happening here? 351 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: You know, they can see into this glass out receiver. 352 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, big glass windows. 353 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: Spot a glass okay. 354 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, big open front. And I had all the 355 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 2: pieces that were done at that time. It was probably 356 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 2: like twenty pieces up on the walls around and so 357 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 2: people could come in and just like check it out 358 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 2: or sow and you know, I would have people sew 359 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 2: for like a few minutes, and I had some people 360 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 2: who kept coming back over and over again for weeks, 361 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 2: which was really cool. 362 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: Well, but you worked your way toward the whale. You 363 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: didn't go full on whale now, you know day three. 364 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 2: Right, No, No, I had done probably thirty of them, 365 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 2: you know by the time I tried with the whale 366 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 2: and crammed as many, you know, of the larger pieces 367 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 2: as I could into my home studio. So I had 368 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 2: sharks like going around like walls, you know, two or 369 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 2: three walls of the studio because they didn't fit otherwise. 370 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 2: And I've definitely had them out in our living room. 371 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:47,360 Speaker 2: My family's like can you please put that away? I mean, 372 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 2: I was trying to with this project. What I'm trying 373 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 2: to do is make connections between all of us and 374 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 2: this problem, because it's often in the scientific literature, they're 375 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,959 Speaker 2: often like kind of pointing a finger towards developing world 376 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 2: and saying, of course, these are the dirtiest places in 377 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 2: the world. These are the worst polluting countries. These rivers 378 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 2: are the top ten dirtiest rivers. And it's always the 379 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 2: global South. And I'm not an expert in India. After 380 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 2: spending six months there. 381 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: Why do you think it's that way there? Why when 382 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 1: you see footage of like some river in India, it's 383 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:22,360 Speaker 1: just like a stream of garbage going. 384 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,880 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I mean it is a huge problem there. 385 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,439 Speaker 2: They don't have the waste infrastructure that we have, so 386 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 2: like their garbage isn't picked up the way are garbage is. 387 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 2: And like in our community where we lived in India, 388 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 2: you know, it's very common to gather all kinds of 389 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 2: garbage and just burn it, you know, which would you 390 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 2: know is not good at all for the people living 391 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 2: nearby and certainly for the people who are burning that waste. 392 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: Now, No, I want to also want to indicate what's 393 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: the difference between a full bright and a full Bright 394 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 1: nehrew I never heard of that before. 395 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, the full Bright Neahrews are just the full Brights 396 00:20:57,760 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 2: that happen in India. 397 00:20:58,920 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 1: India. 398 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 2: That's it. They get money from the American government and 399 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 2: the Indian government and so they have like co naming 400 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 2: of that grant over. 401 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: What period of time were you in and out of India? 402 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,439 Speaker 2: I was there in twenty nineteen for six months. I 403 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 2: took my whole family and we lived there for six months. 404 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: What did your was your husband building shelving or cabinets 405 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:22,400 Speaker 1: or were working over there? No? 406 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,880 Speaker 2: No, no, he was not. I mean he checked out 407 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 2: some interesting buildings there, but no, he was actually doing 408 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 2: a graduate degree at that time. He was doing it 409 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 2: the Yale School of Forestry. But he was able to 410 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 2: do it remotely because he was at a point in 411 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 2: his research where he was working independently. 412 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: What did your children How old were they during the 413 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 1: Indian phase? 414 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 2: They were six, twelve, and fourteen. It was an incredible experience. 415 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 1: What was it like for them? I'm sure I want 416 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: to pivot to that. What was it like for them 417 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: for that? 418 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,679 Speaker 2: You know, you tell your kids about the world, but 419 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 2: you can't explain things to them in the same way 420 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 2: of seeing it. So, I mean it really blew their mind. 421 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 2: They got to go to school there. We lived in 422 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 2: this big apartment tower. We were the only sort of 423 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 2: like non Indian family in this group of three towers. 424 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 2: And they were kind of like it was funny. They 425 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 2: were kind of like locally famous, you know, because we 426 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 2: stood out. You know, my husband's six', eight so he 427 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 2: stands out. Anywhere but like traffic would stop when we 428 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 2: were crossing streets, sometimes like people would hand me their 429 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 2: baby at a mall And i'm, like what is happening 430 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 2: here just to take a Picture that probably happens to 431 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 2: you all the, time but it doesn't happen to. 432 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: Me, WELL i, MEAN i don't. DON'T i don't. KNOW 433 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: i got to go To india and find that it's 434 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:38,919 Speaker 1: going to. Happen what's going on for me In india 435 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,679 Speaker 1: because my career doing In. India but let me ask you, 436 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,160 Speaker 1: this which is THAT i don't understand why this country 437 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,199 Speaker 1: is struggling still with this. Issue, yeah why we're not 438 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: investing so much money into you, know you want people 439 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 1: to you can use glass for THESE i mean, again 440 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,200 Speaker 1: right when you have a little puff of air under your, 441 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 1: wings here in terms of your. Hope then they tell, you, 442 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: well you realize every cokecin is lined with, plastic, right 443 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 1: there's a plastic, lining and they show you the work 444 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: they do to take. Them and then also the plastic 445 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: bag comes out and they peel it out of the 446 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 1: cokecin and you're, like oh, god you know WHAT i, 447 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: mean what is it you think about this country that 448 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: you believe were so disengaged from our environmental? 449 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 2: RESPONSIBILITY m, Yeah SO i teach environmental, policy and you, 450 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 2: know you look at the history of polluters in our. Country. 451 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 2: RIGHT a good example is ge putting PCBs in The Hudson. 452 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,360 Speaker 2: River so you look at that historically and you think 453 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,120 Speaker 2: what were people, Thinking like did they not? Know were they? 454 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 2: Naive were they not paying? Attention AND i really feel 455 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 2: like plastic is that for us? Now? Right you, know 456 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 2: because what happened, eventually, right is that people cottoned onto 457 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 2: it and said this is, unacceptable and it became a 458 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 2: super fun, site, right and they're putting billions of dollars 459 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 2: into cleaning it. Up but of course it's like unringing a. 460 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 2: Bell you can't get all of that. Out and it's 461 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 2: true for any kind of. Pollutant it's so much more 462 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 2: efficient and. Inexpensive the GOLF bp just, forgotten just. Forgotten yeah, 463 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 2: Right and it's like preventing it makes so much sense, environmentally, 464 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:27,679 Speaker 2: economically in every, way and yet our leaders don't are not. 465 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,160 Speaker 2: INTERESTED i would say our business leaders and our political 466 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 2: leaders are both focused on the things that can get, 467 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 2: them you, know clout in the short term and not 468 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 2: the long. TERM i, MEAN i think a politician would 469 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,479 Speaker 2: would never say, like, well we're going to do, this 470 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 2: it's going to cost a little bit more, money but 471 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 2: your grandchildren and your great grandchildren are going to have 472 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 2: clean air and soil and water because of. IT i 473 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,120 Speaker 2: think that's just, sadly like it's really hard to get 474 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 2: people to. Care BUT i talk to people all the 475 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 2: time who know about this issue and care about this, 476 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,199 Speaker 2: issue and they take a canvas back to the grocery, 477 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,400 Speaker 2: store but everything in there is like wrapped in. Plastic 478 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,120 Speaker 2: so it's like decisions were made long before you showed 479 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 2: up at the grocery store that you seem to have 480 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:07,640 Speaker 2: no way of. 481 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: Changing, well people aren't willing to change their lifestyle in that. 482 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: Way they think the long term, effects let's, say of 483 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: plastic are something that takes decades to have any real 484 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: impact in your. Life but are people willing to trade 485 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: off slowing down and living their life more thoughtfully in 486 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:31,959 Speaker 1: order to avoid plastic? Contamination in other, words your life 487 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: is one of the reasons that enables you to live 488 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: this kind of. Life is this? Product are people willing 489 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: to make a? Switch i'm terrified to. SAY i don't believe. 490 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,439 Speaker 2: So. YEAH i think it depends right on some of. 491 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 2: It BUT i think they're taking advantage of the fact 492 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:52,640 Speaker 2: that people are so overtired and being scheduled. Overscheduled. RIGHT 493 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 2: a lot of plastic packaging for food is certainly convenience, based, 494 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 2: Right SO i think it's hard to ask people who 495 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 2: are already overburdened by other things to give up all of. 496 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:08,360 Speaker 2: That water bottles are different for, me, though because that's 497 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,959 Speaker 2: so it's so easy to stop drinking bottled. Water there 498 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 2: are very few communities in the. Country there are, some of, 499 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 2: course right where the water is not safe to, drink 500 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:20,880 Speaker 2: but for most of, us like our tap waters is. Great, yeah, 501 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 2: YEAH i, Drink. 502 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: YEAH i DRINK i drink filter tapwater old long. 503 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,640 Speaker 2: YEAH i, mean you're just taking a public resource and 504 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 2: they've taken that public resource and they put it in a, 505 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 2: bottle and they're charging you for it at a rate 506 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 2: like higher than you know you would pay for gasoline 507 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,439 Speaker 2: for your, car and it's in a container that's like 508 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 2: slowly breaking. 509 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: Down, researcher activist and Artist Cat. Owens if you're enjoying this, 510 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 1: conversation tell a friend and be sure to Follow here's 511 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 1: The thing on the, iHeartRadio, Apps spotify or wherever you 512 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: get your. Podcasts when we come, back Kat owens talks 513 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 1: about her art stick process Creating entangled And ingested and 514 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 1: how she works in a plastic based. Medium I'm Alec 515 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: baldwin and this Is here's the. Thing in twenty, twenty 516 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,360 Speaker 1: Cat owens had plans to continue her research In, Uganda, 517 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: colombia And, india but when her travel plans were disrupted 518 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 1: by THE covid nineteen, pandemic she began exploring rivers closer to. 519 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 1: Home it was these local waterways that inspired the idea 520 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 1: for owens art Series entangled And. Ingested six years, Later 521 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: owens has created one hundred and nineteen portraits of animals 522 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: who have been harmed by plastic. Pollution some Of owen's 523 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: pieces are created on a massive, scale including the sixty 524 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 1: foot long sperm whale recently on display at The Bradley. 525 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 1: AIRPORT i wondered where else has once had the opportunity 526 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 1: to exhibit her. 527 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:11,919 Speaker 2: WORK i have had shows with many of the pieces in, 528 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 2: them AND i have a few coming up next. Year 529 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 2: i'm going to be at The Hartford Public library in 530 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,880 Speaker 2: the spring of twenty twenty six and at this place 531 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 2: In West Palm, Beach florida in the summer of twenty 532 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 2: twenty six Called Resource depot that tries to keep waste 533 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 2: out of the waste. 534 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 1: Stream tell me you have a somewhat longer relationship With Resource, 535 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,679 Speaker 1: depot meaning what's the environmental what's the market for your 536 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: environmentally based art In Palm, Beach. FLORIDA i don't. KNOW 537 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: i mean you're about to find, out, RIGHT i. 538 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 2: Find out the hard. 539 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 3: Way. 540 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 2: Yeah they had a, show like a group, show AND 541 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 2: i applied for, it and then the director contacted me and, 542 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 2: said you know what you should. Do we should do 543 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 2: just a solo show with your work here because it's 544 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 2: such a good match for what we. Do SO i was, 545 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 2: like that sounds, great but my dream is to see 546 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 2: all forty six of these pieces together in one, room you, know, 547 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 2: LIKE i think that could really make an impact on 548 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 2: how people think about this. PROBLEM i take it around to, 549 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 2: schools and you, KNOW i have had exhibits in several. 550 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 2: Places the big, whale the sperm whale has been at 551 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 2: The Hartford airport for about a year and a. 552 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: HALF i think all of your, art if you keep 553 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: going in this direction with these large, pieces the only 554 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: place to display your art would be like The Javits. 555 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 2: Center, YEAH i, KNOW i need like A i don't, 556 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 2: know like an airplane hangar that doesn't have anything in, 557 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 2: it you, know something, huge Because i've got at least 558 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 2: two whales over three whales over fifty feet And i'm 559 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 2: working on right now the fin, whale which will ultimately 560 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 2: be eighty feet, Long SO i need more. Space. 561 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: Yeah is the size of the piece now become your? 562 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: Obsessions like what's the? Biggest let me get some dinosaurs in. 563 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 2: Here, well it's all based on the, Literature So i'm 564 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 2: working down this list from the scientific, literature a list 565 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 2: of all the different species that are affected by entanglement and. 566 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 2: Ingestion so the biggest whale on my list is the fin. 567 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 2: Whale it's not the biggest. Whale the blue whale is 568 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 2: the biggest whale out, there but the fin whale is 569 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 2: the biggest one on my. List. 570 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: Yeah now when you approach a piece whale mouse in. 571 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: Between when you're doing, that how does it? Work you 572 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 1: on a? Canvas? 573 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 2: Canvas cotton. CANVAS i buy it in six foot tall 574 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 2: rolls that are ninety feet, long and then cut it 575 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 2: down to the sizes THAT i. Need and, YEAH i 576 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 2: cut down the, CANVAS i sketch out the. Animal if it's, 577 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 2: SMALL i can just sort of eyeball it and do. 578 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 2: It if it's a big, WHALE i have to do 579 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 2: like a schematic Where i'm measuring. Computers, no just by. 580 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,959 Speaker 1: Hand, yeah then what are you applying to the? 581 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:46,719 Speaker 2: Canvas So i'm hand sewing all the. Scholastic, YEAH i 582 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 2: sew the plastic onto the. Canvas BUT i, mean in terms. 583 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 1: Of your identifying the material you, use it's all we cycle. 584 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 2: Material, Yeah it's not the STUFF i find WHEN i 585 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 2: go into a beach clean, up because that stuff is 586 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 2: really gross and not. Healthy wouldn't want to be in 587 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 2: a room with it or touch it very. Much but 588 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 2: WHEN i started this, project i'd been saving this kind 589 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 2: of film, plastic the film plastic that my family used 590 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 2: BECAUSE i was often it's marked with those chasing arrows 591 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 2: that say like please, recycle and you, think, okay this 592 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 2: must be. RECYCLABLE i just have to figure out how 593 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 2: to recycle. It so this is my. Field and it 594 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 2: took me two years to realize that actually you can't 595 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 2: recycle most of. 596 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: It, now your husband did he wake up at one 597 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: point and you woke up and he's like leaning over, 598 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: you staring at, you and you, say what's his? 599 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 3: Name? 600 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: Michael and you, say what is, It? Michael and he, 601 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 1: goes it's got to, stop, honey it's gotta. Stop stop 602 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: bringing all this plastic into our. 603 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 2: House he does get a little frustrated with. It sometimes he's, 604 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 2: Like i'm, Honey i'm just so glad you're not into 605 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 2: like metal, recycling because at least this can be like 606 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 2: folded up and rolled up and put. Away LIKE i 607 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 2: have a closet with a row of hangars on it 608 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 2: and it just has like penguins anduffins and you, know 609 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 2: dolphins hanging from. 610 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: Them, now when you do the, piece you are sketching 611 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 1: something in terms of. Color you're creating an image in 612 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: whatever fashion computer or on a. Paper and then and 613 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: then and you're bringing to the piece itself multi colored 614 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 1: pieces of plastic to create a to can or whatever. 615 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 1: Is you're going to make something with a lot of vibrant. 616 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 2: Color, Correct, yes absolutely, So, Yeah i'm JUST i have 617 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 2: it all divided out by. COLOR i have like a 618 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 2: bin of, yellow a bin of, orange of purple, blue 619 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 2: and THEN i just sort of make decisions As i'm sewing. 620 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 2: It and SOMETIMES i use things like patterns from different, 621 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 2: materials and SOMETIMES i use those to create depth or 622 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 2: to build like the turtle behind. 623 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: Me, yes it's. Gorgeous, oh thank, you. 624 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 2: Gorgeous that's a green sea. Turtle and so sometimes that's 625 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 2: like coffee bags that have like modeled coloration on, them, 626 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:57,959 Speaker 2: right so THAT i can sort of try to build 627 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 2: like what a turtle shell actually looks like through pattern 628 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 2: and color and that kind of. 629 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 1: Thing, now you say you do exhibit in MUSEUMS i 630 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 1: have is anything hanging? Anywhere? NOW i? 631 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 2: Think, well so mostly local stuff happening right. Now The 632 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 2: Bradley airport In Central connecticut has the sperm whale In. 633 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 2: HARTFORD i have four or five pieces in The Connecticut Science. 634 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 2: CENTER i have a place at The parks And Rec 635 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 2: pool In. Middletown the indoor pool has a big orca 636 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 2: THAT i made with elementary school kids from my. TOWN 637 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 2: i went around to all the elementary schools and did. 638 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 2: That and next Month i'm going to be In iceland 639 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 2: for the month on an artist. Residency if anyone's in 640 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 2: a Kirie, iceland they might find me there sewing. PUFFINS 641 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 2: i guess probably in a harp. Seal what do you 642 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 2: make in a harp? Seal but, Yeah i'm always trying 643 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 2: to find more places to exhibit my work because the 644 00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 2: whole point of it IS i want. THIS i want 645 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 2: people to make between this problem and their own, lives 646 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 2: and then ideally get them to take political action about, 647 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 2: it BECAUSE i really do think we can still influence 648 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,719 Speaker 2: our political systems and we need to. 649 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,839 Speaker 1: Try, now let's talk about your understanding through your other, 650 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 1: work all of your credentials and so. FORTH i, mean 651 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,720 Speaker 1: what's happening in your, mind what's the biggest problem pollution 652 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:26,720 Speaker 1: wise in this? Country where's it coming? 653 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 2: From, OH i mean it's coming from a million, communities, 654 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 2: RIGHT i, mean we do have relatively good waste, management 655 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 2: and yet you, know go outside any parking lot you've 656 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 2: ever been, in and there's waste. Everywhere AND i go 657 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 2: down WHEN i, travel you, know you see the, highway 658 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 2: there's all kinds of litter all along the, streets and 659 00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 2: so a lot of, it whether intentionally or, unintentionally it 660 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,799 Speaker 2: gets out of the waste stream and then goes into. 661 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 2: RIVERS i read a statistic the other day that said 662 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 2: ten thousand tons of plastic in or The Great lakes every? 663 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 2: Year just. 664 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 1: Crazy did any of the work you've worked on address 665 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 1: specific outcomes of plastic? Pollution have you gotten into that at? 666 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,360 Speaker 2: ALL i don't study sort of like the impact on. 667 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 2: HEALTH i don't study microplastics or. NANOPLASTICS i know people who, 668 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 2: do but we really don't know what the health impacts 669 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:23,399 Speaker 2: are going to be yet of accumulated contact with plastics over. 670 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 2: Decades but you, know part of the. Issue so global 671 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 2: markets all together produce over four hundred million tons of 672 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:37,839 Speaker 2: plastic every, year and their stated goal is to increase that, number. 673 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: Right, right the petroleum, Industry. 674 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah and they absolutely want to increase that. Production 675 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 2: so at this point in, time we're not even talking 676 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 2: about what are the important uses of this? Material, Right, 677 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 2: like certainly there are important uses of this. Material it 678 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 2: is all around. Us it's there's a reason it's so. 679 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:02,320 Speaker 2: Popular it's, inexpensive and it's well because we're only counting 680 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 2: like how much it, costs not how much it costs 681 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 2: for its full. Life but you, know we're not even 682 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 2: having a conversation, about like what's the most important use 683 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,480 Speaker 2: of this. MATERIAL i was with a friend at the hospital. 684 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 2: Recently you, know hospitals use lots of single use. Plastics that's, great, 685 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 2: Right but then they brought the patient water and it 686 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:20,719 Speaker 2: was in a styrofoam, cup AND i was, like are 687 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:21,280 Speaker 2: you kidding? 688 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 1: Me like WHEN i see people back packages with, styrofoam 689 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 1: the peanuts that they call them Styro i'm, Like i'm 690 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 1: never going to speak to you again for the rest 691 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 1: of my life now that you sent my birthday present 692 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: in the styrofoam. 693 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 2: Peanuts but the steam come out of my. Ears oh my. 694 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 1: God but the plastic, industry like the tobacco, industry the same. 695 00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 1: Thing they know what's going, on they know what's. Happening 696 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,279 Speaker 1: they know what the deleterious effects of all of us. 697 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 2: ARE i, mean in their moo is kind of like 698 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,719 Speaker 2: to throw a little money towards some vague recycling programs 699 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 2: and then continued to produce and ninety nine percent of 700 00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 2: plastic is still made with virgin fossil fuels because that's 701 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 2: the deepest and the easiest way to do. It and 702 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,919 Speaker 2: so they're actually things that they could do to have 703 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 2: to lessen the, impact BUT i don't see a lot 704 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,000 Speaker 2: of companies that are really trying to do. That there are, 705 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,360 Speaker 2: some like food companies who seem to be making choices 706 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 2: and packaging to get away from, plastic which is exciting to, 707 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,759 Speaker 2: see but it's a tiny. Amount and things that used 708 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 2: to be you, KNOW i encounter packaging all the time 709 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 2: from cat, litter dog, food bird. Seed all of that 710 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:30,319 Speaker 2: is like in plastic, now and it wasn't that long 711 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 2: ago when all of that came, in like multi layered, paper, 712 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,440 Speaker 2: right and and for most people in the, world like 713 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,319 Speaker 2: that's a fine way to package that, good, right you, 714 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 2: know we're, yes you might have like mice get into your, 715 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 2: garage but for most of us it's it's it's an 716 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,879 Speaker 2: okay packaging. Type but it has become the, standard right 717 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 2: where our expectations if something's good or if it you, 718 00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 2: know we want it to look a certain. Way it's 719 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:56,319 Speaker 2: going to come wrapped in. 720 00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: PLASTIC i want to mention one more, thing which is 721 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,319 Speaker 1: just for people to, understand you have these pictures and 722 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 1: this beautiful artwork you do with these materials and this 723 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,480 Speaker 1: kind of you, know obviously without it goes without saying 724 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 1: unorthodox methodology with what you're, Doing but you ever get 725 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: sick of, It you ever sit there and GO i 726 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 1: want to get back into policy and try to fix. 727 00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 2: This, WELL i mean two things. THERE i don't get 728 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,160 Speaker 2: sick of. It, like it's very calming and meditative practice 729 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,759 Speaker 2: for me to, sew SO i really enjoy that. Process 730 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,359 Speaker 2: but at the same time a huge Materials, yeah there's 731 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,000 Speaker 2: a lot of, sewing BUT i hate the. Materials it's very. 732 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,800 Speaker 2: Weird as an, artist usually you, know you're excited about 733 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 2: the oil paints and the materials you're, using the. Watercolors 734 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 2: it's very weird to be spending so much time with 735 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,080 Speaker 2: something that you really. Hate BUT i, THINK i, mean 736 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 2: part of the REASON i took on this project is 737 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,800 Speaker 2: BECAUSE i was tired of just communicating with other scientists 738 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,360 Speaker 2: about this, issue BECAUSE i think it's no fun to 739 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:55,960 Speaker 2: talk about it with a bunch of people who already 740 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,760 Speaker 2: know everything about, it, Right LIKE i want to connect 741 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 2: with people and then get them to contact their leaders 742 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 2: and demand something. 743 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,520 Speaker 1: BETTER i just want to, say first of, all thank 744 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,120 Speaker 1: you for doing this with. ME i feel like this 745 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 1: is the one we've got to. Solve we've got to, solve, 746 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,640 Speaker 1: yes because it's really REALLY i think doing a lot 747 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 1: of more importantly unseen, things unknown. Things who knows what's 748 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:19,719 Speaker 1: going to be the plastic the bill we're going to 749 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 1: get handed twenty five years from. Now so thank you so, much. 750 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:24,840 Speaker 2: Thank you for having. ME i really appreciate. 751 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 1: It my thanks to Kat. Owens this episode was recorded 752 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 1: AT Cdm studios In New York. City we're produced By Kathleen, 753 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 1: Russo Zach, MacNeice And victoria De. Martin our engineer Is Frank. 754 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:45,720 Speaker 1: Imperial our social media manager Is Danielle. Gingrich I'm Alec. 755 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: Baldwin here's the thing that is brought to you By iHeart. 756 00:39:48,840 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 1: Radio name