1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Terror in the Heartland. 2 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 2: A beautiful little boy, just five years old hurled off 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 2: the Mall of America balcony. A predator stalked the mall 4 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 2: before throwing the child straight down. 5 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. 6 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 2: I want to thank you for being with us. 7 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 3: Five year old Landon Hoffmann arrives at Minnesota's Mall of 8 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 3: America with his mom for a day of celebration, but 9 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,959 Speaker 3: within minutes, an unsuspecting child will cross paths with an 10 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 3: evil stranger. 11 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 2: Joining us Landon's mother to tell us what happened that 12 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 2: day at Mall of America and about her journey since 13 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 2: this horrific tragedy. 14 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: But first listen and I saw. 15 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 4: The suspect pick up land in and it's kind of 16 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 4: tossing over the edge. I don't really think I could 17 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 4: put into words what I've just the filling on. 18 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 5: A chili April morning, snow still on the ground, Carrie Hoffman, 19 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 5: her five year old son Landon, and a friend and 20 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 5: her son will arrive at the mall early before all 21 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 5: the stores are open. Standing outside the Rainforest Cafe on 22 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 5: the third floor, the boys are playing on a fake 23 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 5: rock when a man Carrie thought was an employee. 24 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 6: He walks up to. 25 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 5: The boys, asking if it was okay for the boys 26 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:27,639 Speaker 5: to be on the rock. The man tells the moms 27 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 5: very nicely, it's okay, you can be here. The man 28 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,479 Speaker 5: then leans down and whispers something into Will's ear. 29 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 2: Got from our forensic k A R E. Eleven and 30 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 2: join me. Landa's mom Carrie Hoffman, author of Miracle at 31 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 2: the Mall. Carrie, thank you for being with us. Why 32 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 2: did you take your children to the mall that day? 33 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: Mall of America. 34 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 7: Landon had just finished preschool and we were going to 35 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 7: go there and do something fun, celebrate the end of preschool, 36 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 7: beginning of kindergarten. What's to be a fun. 37 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 2: Day, you know, Carrie, It's really interesting that your idea 38 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 2: of fun is taking the children to the mall, because 39 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 2: I try to discourage my children from being mall rats. 40 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 2: But Mall of America is different. Mall of America isn't 41 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 2: just a mall where all you can do is shop 42 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 2: and spend money on material things. 43 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 1: With all the other. 44 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 2: You know, you're bombarded with materialism, But at Mall of America, 45 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 2: it really is a tourist spot. 46 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:30,959 Speaker 1: I was researching. 47 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 2: They have Nickelodeon Universe, an indoor theme park, Sea Life, 48 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 2: Minnesota Aquarium. They have the Amazing Mirror Maze, the Rock 49 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 2: of Ages, black Light, Mini Golf, fifty restaurants, events, activities. 50 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 2: It's seven acres. The Nickelodeon Universe has a seven acre 51 00:02:55,639 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 2: indoor theme park, twenty four rides like roller coasters and 52 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 2: family friendly attractions. They have the aquarium with Marine Life. 53 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 2: They have that Mirror Maize. It's reflections and twists you 54 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 2: try to get through. 55 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: Mini Golf. 56 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 2: They have that Crayola experience. They have Museum of Illusions, 57 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 2: and over fifty restaurants. There's also fly Over America, the 58 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 2: Escape game. 59 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:23,799 Speaker 1: I mean, I could go. 60 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 2: On and on and on about what's in the Mall 61 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 2: of America. So when I first heard you took your 62 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 2: children for fun at the mall, I'm like, what is 63 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 2: fun about wandering endlessly around and around and around stores? 64 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: But it's actually a lot of fun. What did you 65 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: have in mind that day? 66 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 7: Well, it is really close to my house, so it's 67 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 7: only about twenty minutes, and so we can go there 68 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 7: and just do the one thing. It is that big 69 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 7: and has all of that stuff. But that day we 70 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 7: were just going to that Krayola experience. We knew it 71 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 7: was on the third floor. 72 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: What is that? 73 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:00,839 Speaker 7: You just go, you go pay to go in there. 74 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 7: It's a separate, you know, experience, and you go from 75 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 7: station to station creating things with crans, so you can 76 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 7: like melt crans and do a spin arts. You can 77 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 7: pretend you're a crayon and dance like a crayon. There's 78 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 7: there's like a whole creon slides and everything has to 79 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 7: do with the creole, the creole a crayon. Just you 80 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 7: just go around and spend there. 81 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 2: At our mall for the Twins, which we thought was 82 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 2: just amazing, was a Lego land and they had some 83 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 2: rides and they had three D movies and like when 84 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 2: it would rain you'd get wet or just and we 85 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 2: just thought that was the biggest thing ever, was to 86 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 2: go to the Lego Land. It was just one big 87 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 2: room and a playpit, a playpit, and my son was 88 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 2: already getting tall and I had to bring id to 89 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 2: show he was under twelve because he was already taller 90 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 2: than me. You know, it's just the dichotomy, because those 91 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 2: are some of the happiest memories that I have of 92 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,799 Speaker 2: taking them and their friends and playing in the ballpit 93 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:15,559 Speaker 2: and riding those crazy rides with them in a mall. Yeah, 94 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 2: And the dichotomy between your happy intentions and what happened 95 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 2: that day, it just it hurts to think about it. 96 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:29,359 Speaker 2: What tell me what happened? 97 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 7: Well, we were there before it opened, so it opened 98 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 7: at ten am, and we were there probably quarter two, 99 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 7: so we were You could park and you could walk in, 100 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,799 Speaker 7: and you could go wait outside the experience until it opened, 101 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 7: and so that's what we were doing. We were kind 102 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 7: of just standing on those rocks outside that Rainforest Cafe, 103 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 7: which is right next to the Kerala Experience, waiting for 104 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 7: it to open. And we were just leaning over those 105 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 7: rocks looking at that alligator, trying to see if it 106 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 7: would turn on. Usually it goes up and down and 107 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 7: steam come out, and it wasn't doing that because it 108 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 7: wasn't on yet. It wasn't open. But the boys were 109 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 7: just like looking at it waiting for it to come on. 110 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 7: And when we were doing that, a man had walked 111 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 7: up and leaned put his elbows on the rock and 112 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 7: leaned over and was talking to the boys quietly in 113 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 7: their ears. And I was right there with the other 114 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,279 Speaker 7: mom that I was with, and we were talking and 115 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 7: the boys as this man was whispering in their ear, 116 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,719 Speaker 7: and they were giggling, and so whatever he was saying 117 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 7: was funny, but it did strike me as odd, on 118 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 7: why is he leaning over and whispering. So I did 119 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 7: ask him if if he was going to turn the 120 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 7: alligator on. See it was winter or it was April, 121 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 7: but it was snowing that day and we all had 122 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 7: on winter coats and boots, and he had on short 123 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 7: sleeves and blue jeans, so I thought that he worked there, 124 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 7: and so I asked him if he was going to 125 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 7: turn the alliator on, and he said, you know, kind 126 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 7: of just mumbled to me. No, you know, I don't 127 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 7: know what he said, just no, no, kind of mumbles. 128 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 7: I said, well, is it okay if we stand here? 129 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 7: And he's like, oh, yeah, that's okay that you stand here, 130 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,799 Speaker 7: just like it reassured me. He was nice, he looked 131 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 7: kind It wasn't. I didn't. I had a warning when 132 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 7: I went into the mall, but I did not have 133 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 7: a warning standing there talking to him. 134 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 2: Carrie, you just mentioned you had a signal a warning 135 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 2: when you first went into the mall. 136 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: What happened? 137 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 7: Yeah, I just it was driving into that parking ramp. 138 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 7: I just had an overwhelming whelming sense that I could 139 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 7: be in danger, something weird could happen today. It was 140 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 7: just like some odd feeling that I didn't feel comfortable with. 141 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 7: So I just prayed, and I asked God to go 142 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 7: before us to keep us safe everywhere we go. I 143 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 7: asked for angels to come with us to guard us 144 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 7: and keep us safe. I also led the blood of 145 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 7: Jesus around us, because I know the enemy can't cross 146 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 7: the blood line. So I just led blood of Jesus. 147 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 7: And then I thought, okay, let's go. We're gonna go 148 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 7: have a fun day. And so I had the warning 149 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 7: enough to pray that keep us safe today. But when 150 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 7: I was talking to the man, I believe it or not, 151 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 7: did not feel like I better get away. He was 152 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 7: reassuring me. I felt like, I honestly feel like the 153 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 7: enemy was working through this man and he was reassuring me, 154 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 7: and I was feeling comfortable because he was tricking me. 155 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 7: But I did not know that. 156 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 2: It's amazing to me, Carrie, that you felt that premonition 157 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 2: and you actually acted on it by praying. You know 158 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 2: now my twins take themselves to school, which I really 159 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 2: miss driving them to school. But the last thing they 160 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 2: would hear would be a prayer over them every morning 161 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 2: as they got out of the minivan to go to school. Yes, 162 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 2: and I can just imagine you pulling into that parking 163 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 2: ramp and getting that feeling. And you know a lot 164 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 2: of people pooh pooh feelings, and that's completely erroneous because 165 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 2: our feelings are hunches, premonitions, so to speak. 166 00:08:55,720 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: Are based on thousands of thousands of year years of evolution. 167 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 2: Something tips us off, or is in your case, you 168 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 2: believe it was a higher, a more divine warning. 169 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:10,839 Speaker 1: And I'm thinking about. 170 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 2: What you said, Carrie, that the man was talking to 171 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 2: the boys and they were giggling. 172 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: Listen, everybody. 173 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 4: I ran down and found the first officer I saw 174 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 4: the entire time. My concern was for. 175 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 8: Landing whispering so the moms can't hear. The man, who 176 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 8: is not an employee, has previously thought, tells the boys, 177 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 8: if you don't get off this rock, I'm going to 178 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 8: throw you off. The boys nervously giggle. When the man 179 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 8: reaches around, Will grabs land in and throws the five 180 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 8: year old over the third floor railing. 181 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 2: Oh my stars, that original sound was from our friends 182 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 2: at kare you're standing there with the other mom. 183 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: What did you observe, Carrie? 184 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 7: Yeah, actually Will was right next to the man, and 185 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 7: he went around Will and grabbed Land and took him 186 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 7: under the armpits and threw him over the balcony. And 187 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 7: it all happened so fast, like we were not that 188 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 7: far from the balcony, probably I don't know ten feet. 189 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 7: He ran that fast and through him before I could 190 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 7: even understand what just happened. As soon as he did it, though, 191 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:22,559 Speaker 7: I screamed, no, devil, take your hands off. I'm somebody 192 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 7: just threw my baby. Went screaming down the escalator stairs 193 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 7: at somebody through my baby. I just went as fast 194 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 7: as I could do. 195 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: You down the third floor. 196 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 7: Carry, Yes, I was on the third floor. 197 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 2: We're showing an image now inside Mall of America, and 198 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 2: you see the bottom the ground floor, the next floor, 199 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:47,959 Speaker 2: but then the escalator takes you up even higher. Looked 200 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 2: all the way up near that glass roof to the 201 00:10:52,960 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 2: third floor, that is from where this child was thrown 202 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 2: to that hard, hard bass floor. 203 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: You start screaming and do what. 204 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 7: Carrie ran as fast as I can, yelling somebody through 205 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 7: my baby, somebody through my baby, everybody, come help pray. 206 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 7: As soon as I got down there, I saw him 207 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 7: or I didn't see him, and I yelled, where is he? 208 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 7: There wasn't many people there, like I said, it wasn't 209 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 7: open yet, and one woman pointed where he was and 210 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 7: I ran and picked him up, and she goes, no, 211 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 7: you have to put him down. Please put him down. 212 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 7: You know, my first instinct was to pick him up. 213 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 7: I don't remember what he looked like or anything. I 214 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 7: just saw him and scooped him up. And right behind 215 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 7: me two nurses happened to be on the second level 216 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 7: waiting for a st door to open. Like I was, 217 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 7: I am brooding, landing on to live and take a breath. 218 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 7: So they were giving him CPR and they said, we 219 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 7: got a heart beat, and I said, yes, we got 220 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:53,839 Speaker 7: a heart beat. Everybody pray. And I looked up and 221 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 7: there's three levels of people all looking over the balcony 222 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 7: and I just looked up there and I said, everybody pray. 223 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 7: He has a heartbeat. And then they said he just 224 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 7: took a breath, and I said, yes, he took a breath. 225 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 7: Everybody pray, and I just begged everyone one around staring 226 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 7: to pray. This is what we're doing. We're praying, and 227 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 7: we're routing landing On to live and not die. And 228 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 7: that's what we were doing. 229 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 3: As the five year old is amazed by the rainforest cafe, 230 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 3: the perpetrator closes in. He leans down whispers something to 231 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 3: the little boy. Seconds later, the mall will erupt in chaos. 232 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 2: Joining me is Landon's mom, who describes running down an 233 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 2: escalator begging people around her to pray for her son. 234 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 2: As she reaches land and picks him up and is 235 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 2: still praying that he is alive. But at that moment, 236 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 2: as she is praying, Landon is dead with no heartbeat. 237 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 2: The guy, Miss Hoffman, that threw your son over the 238 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 2: balcony on the third of Mall of America, had a 239 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 2: reputation in the mall of throwing things off the balcony, 240 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 2: throwing things into restaurants, Yet he was still there. 241 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: He had not been banned from the all. 242 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 7: I mean, I don't know what the whole background is 243 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 7: on that. I never wanted anything to do with this guy. 244 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 7: I know that he had issues there, and I think 245 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 7: he was banned. I think there was a lot at 246 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 7: the time that you could only be banned for up 247 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 7: to six months, maybe one year, and so I mean 248 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 7: that has been changed now, but I don't know. I 249 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 7: don't like to go down that role, that hole of 250 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 7: all the things I have to do with this man, 251 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 7: because he is no part of our life. 252 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 1: You know what, You're so wise, Carrie. 253 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 2: I try not to think about the guy that murdered 254 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 2: my fiance because it's wasted energy. Yeah, it's completely wasted 255 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 2: energy and time and can take me down a dark hole. 256 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: That's try. It's very difficult to get out of. Listen 257 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: to this. 258 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:11,319 Speaker 5: Everybody falling forty feet to the ground, Landen Hoffman breaks 259 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 5: his skull, facial bones, both arms, and a leg, as 260 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 5: well as a life threatening injury to his vina kVA 261 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 5: running to his heart. Two nurses who work in a 262 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 5: cardiac unit happen to be right there when it happened 263 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 5: and are able to perform CPR on the little boy. 264 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: Joining us right now. 265 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 2: Is a renowned medical examiner, the Chief Medical Examiner District 266 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 2: two Medical Examiner's Office, State of Florida. He is a 267 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 2: forensic pathologist, a toxicologist, and a neuro pathologist. Wow doctor 268 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 2: Thomas Coin, thank you for being with us. I'm hearing 269 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 2: a lot of medical jargon if you can make some 270 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 2: sense of it for us. We're told landon falls forty 271 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 2: feet and remember age five, age five, If that makes 272 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,239 Speaker 2: any difference, fall's. 273 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: Forty feet is thrown. He didn't fall thrown forty. 274 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 2: Feet to a hard surface, the bottom floor of Mall 275 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 2: of America. It looks like it's tile, which is probably 276 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 2: on top of cement. Forty feet to the ground, breaks 277 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 2: the skull, facial bones, both arms, and a leg. And 278 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 2: this is the thing I don't understand. Life threatening injury 279 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 2: to Veena Kava running to his heart, what does that mean? 280 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 6: Sure, those are types of injuries that I will see 281 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 6: in high impact car collisions or injuries where the body 282 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 6: absorbs a lot of force. And the vein we remember 283 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 6: from school, the blood is carried in our body through 284 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 6: arteries and veins. Arteries carry the blood away from our 285 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 6: heart to oliver organs, and the veins deliver the blood 286 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 6: back to our heart from oliver organs. The vein of 287 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 6: keva is the largest vein that we have in our body, 288 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 6: and it courses from our pelvic region back up to 289 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 6: the heart. And so all of the blood that comes 290 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 6: from our feet and our legs comes together into the 291 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 6: vena cava, and as the vina cable travels back up 292 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 6: to the heart along the spine, all of the organs 293 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 6: in our body send veins that communicate with the vena cava, 294 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 6: allowing all that blood to come back to our art 295 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 6: to get rid of the carbon dioxide and get new oxygen. 296 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 6: The vinagable, like I said, is a large vessel. And 297 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 6: so when the body absorbs a large amount of force, 298 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 6: whether it be a car car crash, or in this 299 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 6: case a fall from great height at impact, the body 300 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 6: will absorb that force, will get stretched and become deformed. 301 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 6: And as it becomes deformed, those blood vessels are stretched 302 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 6: beyond their normal elastic capacity. You know, like a rubber band, 303 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 6: if you stretch it too far, it will break. Well, 304 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 6: the same thing can happen to a blood vessel, and 305 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 6: sometimes what happens is the inner layer of that blood 306 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 6: vessel may tear, allowing blood to escape. That inner layer. 307 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 6: In between the layers of the blood vessels can slowly 308 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 6: grow and expand, and so in this case that injury 309 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 6: may not have been recognized at first. They probably realized 310 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 6: he wasn't bleeding into any of his body cavities. They 311 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 6: attended to all of his injuries, and that other small 312 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 6: injury in that vein could have slowly grown over time, 313 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 6: being a threat to rupture at some point, especially if 314 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 6: he started to do normal activity. Again, that we see 315 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 6: that sometimes a vascular dissection is called. And again when 316 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 6: I see in the vein, very often high impact collisions, 317 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 6: I see it from an abdominal trauma and in this case, 318 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 6: more likely when he fell and impacted the ground. 319 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 1: Wow. 320 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 2: Okay, So the vena cava runs directly to the heart. 321 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 6: Yes, it will go right into the bottom of the heart, 322 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 6: and that's where all of the blood draining from our 323 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 6: lower half and our Torso we'll get back to the heart. 324 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: Okay. 325 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 2: We always hear about the femeral artery or the jugular 326 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 2: or the carotid artery. You don't hear a lot about 327 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 2: the vena kava. I guess because it's protected by the ribcage. 328 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,159 Speaker 6: Correct, it's protected by the body, so all the organs 329 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 6: set over it. And again, you very rarely see an 330 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,239 Speaker 6: injury like that unless you have extreme force, and in 331 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 6: this case, of course, rare to see this a person survive. 332 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 6: But nevertheless, side did that fall from three floors is 333 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,360 Speaker 6: enough force to cause this kind of injury deep inside 334 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 6: the body? 335 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 2: You know, this child was thrown from the third level. 336 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 2: It's way up there near the skylights of the Mall 337 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 2: of America. I mean, that's scary and I'm curious. 338 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: He I've learned. 339 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 2: Was attended to almost immediately by two nurses who happened 340 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 2: to be at the mall that race down and start 341 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 2: resuscitating him or trying to. How is it different to 342 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 2: resuscitate a child versus an adult. 343 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 6: Well, it may it may be a little easier in 344 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 6: the sense that you know, a child isn't compensating for 345 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 6: underlying heart disease. Right, so many of us, as we 346 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 6: get to be in our forties and fifties, we will 347 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 6: accumulate heart disease over time, and that may make the 348 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:22,360 Speaker 6: heart less responsive to resuscitation. A child is much younger. 349 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 6: But also the injuries themselves may not be as severe 350 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 6: in a child as opposed to an older adult who 351 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 6: may have more internal bleeding, just because of the fact 352 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 6: that their masses greater. They're not as plastic or pliable, 353 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 6: so their ability to withstand such a force will be 354 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 6: less and less, say a much smaller child, but in 355 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 6: particular a child. Children also tend to be a little 356 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 6: more resistant to loss of oxygen. So you know the 357 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 6: classic story of a child who drowns and then is 358 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 6: resuscitated even you know, maybe up to thirty minutes later, 359 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 6: and is able to still regain normal brain function. So 360 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 6: it may very well be that they have a little 361 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 6: more plastic ability than adults do, and so sometimes in 362 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 6: children it's a little bit easier to get that return 363 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 6: of normal spontaneous circulation without having long term frametime. 364 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:25,439 Speaker 2: Crime stories With Nancy Grace, you know, doctor Coyne, I 365 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:31,439 Speaker 2: have handled cases where I found in the autopsy a 366 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 2: lot of bruising to the body and was told by 367 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:40,359 Speaker 2: the medical examiner like yourself, that that bruising occurred during CPR. 368 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 2: This child already suffered multiple broken bones. How do you 369 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 2: resuscitate the child when he is covered in breaks and injuries? 370 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 6: Sure, I mean it's a ton of war. You're trying 371 00:20:55,280 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 6: to provide resuscitation or enough force to the chest, because 372 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 6: mind you, when you're when you're doing CPR, what you're 373 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 6: effectively doing is compressing the body to allow the body 374 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 6: to squeeze the heart so you can pump blood through 375 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 6: the body. So you want to do it with enough 376 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 6: force that actually allows the ribs above to compress down 377 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 6: upon the heart to allow blood to flow. And so 378 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 6: you you take into consideration that some injuries may and 379 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 6: very well occur in adults who are less plastic right there, 380 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 6: their ribs aren't. Children have much more cartilage. As we 381 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 6: get older, are our bones. The cartilage will turn into bone. 382 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 6: You'll also have more mineralization or calcium deposits in your bones, 383 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 6: so they're a little more easy to break. So in adults, 384 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 6: I see very commonly rib fractures, external fractures in persons 385 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 6: who administer CPR, But in children they're more plastic, so 386 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 6: you're less likely to get a rib fracture. But nevertheless, 387 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 6: at the end of the day, we're trying to save 388 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,919 Speaker 6: this person's life. So you you take into consideration, yes, 389 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 6: I'm going to have some injury, but more importantly, can 390 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 6: I get this person's heart restarted, Can I get blood 391 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 6: flow back to their body? Then I can worry about 392 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 6: treating all of those injuries. 393 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,719 Speaker 2: You know, doctor Coyn, I've never heard a victim referred 394 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 2: to as plastic, more plastic, less plastic. 395 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: What are you saying? 396 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 6: Sure, so you know I'm more pliable? Right, So again children, 397 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 6: and I'm sure we all are not growing up. I 398 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 6: was able to do a split and do things I 399 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 6: certainly cannot do in m twenties and definitely not now 400 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 6: in my fifteen. 401 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: I bet you could our bodies. 402 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 6: Our bodies. I wouldn't want to try it. But our bodies, 403 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 6: especially the ligaments, the tendons, all to the cartilaginous parts. 404 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 6: They're much more pliable as a child. As we get older, 405 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,159 Speaker 6: as they begin to ossify or form bone, or accumulate 406 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 6: minerals from aging calcification or calcium in particular, your bones 407 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 6: become less pliable. Your ligaments become less pliable. That's why 408 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 6: it's much more easier to tear a ligament as we 409 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 6: get older. So children have more pliability. So when they 410 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 6: fall and their bodies to form on impact. Right, as 411 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 6: you can imagine, if a bone, let's say, is being 412 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,919 Speaker 6: impact that that bone will bend due to the force, 413 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 6: and it will be up to the point upon which 414 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 6: it can't bend anymore because it's not elastic, so it 415 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 6: will fracture. A child's bone in certain areas have more cartilage, 416 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 6: so it's more pliable, so it has more give, if 417 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 6: you will, so maybe less likely to fracture than say 418 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 6: a person who's in their twenties or thirties. So that's 419 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 6: what I mean by more plastic. They're a little more pliable, 420 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 6: but also plastic in terms of their ability to respond 421 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 6: to injury. They're still growing, you know, they're healthy. Their organs, 422 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 6: you know, have no plaques or disease that we have 423 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,400 Speaker 6: that makes us harder to compensate for injury. A child 424 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 6: is much more readily capable of compensating for an injury 425 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 6: than an adult. 426 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 2: Doctor coin, How does a fall cause brain injury or 427 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 2: a crash? 428 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,400 Speaker 1: I mean, I know that they do, But how does 429 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 1: that happen? 430 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,919 Speaker 2: What happens to your brain that leaves you with a 431 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 2: permanent brain injury? 432 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 6: Sure, there's two things really that happen. Well, let's first 433 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 6: break it down. There's primary injury, and the primary injury 434 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 6: is the effect of the actual impact itself. So there's 435 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 6: the direct impact. When your head strikes a hard object 436 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 6: or a heard object strikes your head, that will number 437 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 6: one cause the force of that object to be transmitted 438 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 6: throughout your brain, and so your brain will literally move 439 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,920 Speaker 6: within your skull, you know, side to side, front to back, 440 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 6: slamming into the skull itself. The brain is very soft, 441 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 6: like agella mold, so it's very easy for the brain 442 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 6: to bruise and get injured. That's the first thing, the 443 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 6: direct injury. The second thing is the brain will also 444 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 6: rotate around a central axis, so as you imagine if 445 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 6: you kick a soccer ball, as that soccer ball is kicked, 446 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,199 Speaker 6: it will roll, it will spin. The brain wants to 447 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,360 Speaker 6: spin too after impact, and it will spin or rotate 448 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 6: within the actual skull itself. That rotation stretches all of 449 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 6: those tiny nerve fibers, and if it stretches it too far, 450 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 6: they can tear. And so critically, if the bottom of 451 00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 6: our brain, where our brain stem sits, it's the part 452 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 6: of our brain that you know, allows us to breathe 453 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,120 Speaker 6: without having to think about it. We're not sitting here 454 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 6: thinking about breathing in breathing out. If fibers in those 455 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 6: areas are torn or injured, that person can stop breathing 456 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 6: and they can die up all of a sudden. So 457 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 6: brain injury does those two things primarily, but it's a 458 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,360 Speaker 6: secondary injury that's more dangerous, and that's the swelling that occurs, 459 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 6: because you know, I'm sure we've all gotten punched in 460 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 6: our arm before. You may see the initial redness or 461 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 6: a little bit of bruising, but over time swelling occurs, 462 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 6: and sometimes you can get a significant amount of swelling. 463 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 6: Looks like I have a softball on your arm, right. 464 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 6: That same thing happens to our brain. But the problem 465 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 6: is the brain is within the skull and it has 466 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 6: nowhere to go. So as the swelling occurs, pressure builds up, 467 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 6: and that pressure is directed back on the brain itself, 468 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 6: which can physically compress the brain structures, destroying them or 469 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 6: more importantly, prevent blood flow to those areas because blood 470 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 6: vessels are compressible. 471 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 2: You know what, whoa whoa white white Oay. Remember I'm 472 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 2: just a g I'm trying to keep up with you, 473 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 2: but you're saying, okay. 474 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,199 Speaker 1: So the brain is hurt like a bruise, and it 475 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: starts to. 476 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 2: Swell, and then there's nowhere for it to go, like 477 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 2: your arm can go out. I remember every time I 478 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 2: got an allergy shot, my arms swell up like two 479 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 2: of them like an egg. And my dad would actually 480 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,600 Speaker 2: I'd look over at him, he be driving me home 481 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 2: from the allergy doctor, and there'd be tears going in 482 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 2: his eyes because he'll look over and see my arms 483 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 2: swelling up. 484 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,360 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think about how that connects to the brain. 485 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,199 Speaker 1: The brain tries to swell up and it hits the 486 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: skull and has nowhere to go, so it starts. 487 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 2: Damaging the brain, killing the brain cells because they're up 488 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 2: against the skull. 489 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: Is that right, Yeah? 490 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 2: The pressure, Okay, so that's why they put a shut, 491 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 2: a hole in the head. 492 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 6: A shut, or they'll literally out of the skull to 493 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 6: relieve the pressure. Yet, so that secondary part is all 494 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 6: times most dangerous. And imagine this, if it's so severe, 495 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 6: if the pressure inside the brain or skulls me it 496 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 6: is so high, if it's above our blood pressure, no 497 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 6: blood can flow into the head or into the brain, 498 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 6: and that's where things get really dangerous. And so managing 499 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 6: that part, the swelling of the brain, is the most 500 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 6: difficult part after an initial injury, and oftentimes that's what 501 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 6: is the fatal injury, is a secondary injury or swelling. 502 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,920 Speaker 1: Doctor coryn, are you married, Yes? 503 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:30,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not shopping, Okay, I've only raised one. I 504 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 2: don't want to start all over with another one. 505 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: I'm just curious. 506 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 9: You're so. 507 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 2: Brilliant, But I bet when you go home your life 508 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 2: is like, did you take out the trash? 509 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: Okay? Do you know? 510 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 6: Yeah? 511 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 10: My kids always I'm literally hanging on every word you're saying. 512 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to take it all in. Okay, let 513 00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: me ask you this. 514 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 2: We talked about the resuscitation when I have reason to 515 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 2: believe when mom ran running down the escalator, you know 516 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 2: how sharp those things are, the steps. She's running, screaming 517 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 2: to all three levels, pray, pray, pray. 518 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: When she gets to. 519 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:26,879 Speaker 2: Her son, Doctor cron, I think he was dead. I 520 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 2: think he was dead at that moment. How can that 521 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 2: be good? Way? 522 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 6: Well, you know death? How he labeled death. Usually we 523 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 6: say when a heart stops speeding, right, But and his 524 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,719 Speaker 6: heart made very well been stopped. But the brain tissue 525 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,959 Speaker 6: is still alive until it exhausts all of its energy, 526 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 6: all of its oxygen. And so although he may not 527 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 6: have been conscious and may not have been able to 528 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 6: remember those events, his brain made very well still been functioning, 529 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 6: may have been receptive to his mother's voice, to certain 530 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 6: sounds around him, It's hard to know because the problem 531 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 6: always is in these cases is our inability to remember. 532 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 6: I use this bad analogy of a person who goes 533 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 6: out drinking at nighttime they have you know, they go 534 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 6: to parties, and then they wake up the next morning 535 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 6: and they can't remember a thing. It isn't that the 536 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 6: events never occurred the night before, It's just that the 537 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 6: alcohol prevented them from being able to remember the events. 538 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 6: So in this way, you know, the injury is preventing 539 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 6: you from encoding those memories. So if you ask a 540 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 6: person days or you know, a long time after, hey, 541 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 6: do you remember the events? Do you remember your mother 542 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 6: speaking to you? You may not be able to remember anything, 543 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 6: but it doesn't mean that at that moment you couldn't 544 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 6: hear her voice, couldn't hear her prayers, And who knows, 545 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 6: maybe that gave him enough strength to keep on going. 546 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 2: But how do you go from being dead on the 547 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:52,280 Speaker 2: floor of them all of America to being alive again? 548 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 2: I mean, I think you're going to give me some 549 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 2: medical explanation, but no, no, it was like a miracle 550 00:29:58,520 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 2: to me. 551 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 6: It is. It's a miracle that those two nurses were 552 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 6: there to initiate CPR, because the real key was just 553 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 6: getting blood flow back to the brain. Was to allow 554 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 6: blood flow get back to the brain and the vital 555 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 6: organs so he could then be transported to the hospital 556 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 6: and have all those injuries you attended to. That was 557 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 6: the miracle, really, it was making sure that his heart, 558 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 6: although it stopped temporarily, was restarted and life can go on. 559 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 2: One last thing, doctor Coin, the mom kept talking to 560 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 2: him even when he had been he was dead, his 561 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 2: heart not beating, and we've I've always heard this anecdotally. 562 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 2: I don't have any statistics to tell me this, because 563 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 2: no one apparently believes the near death or after life experiences. 564 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 2: But we have been told over and over and over 565 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 2: that people can hear. It's the last sense to leave 566 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 2: you that people can hear even after they're declare did 567 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 2: and they can when they're resuscitated, they can recall what. 568 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: Was being said around them. Is there any way that 569 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 1: Landon heard his mother. 570 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 6: It's quite possible. Yeah, because as I mentioned, although the 571 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 6: heart stopped beating, the brain tissue is still all those 572 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 6: cells throughout our brain, all those nerve fibers are still 573 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 6: there potentially active, and so if those little fibers in 574 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 6: his ears are hearing sounds, they are transmitting those signals 575 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 6: to his brain. Again, he may not have been conscious 576 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 6: or may not be able to remember those those signals, 577 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 6: but I'm assuming it's quite possible that he was still 578 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 6: receiving those signals without warning. 579 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 3: A twenty four year old man lunges at a toddler 580 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 3: in one of the fanciest malls in America, lifting the 581 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 3: boy up off his feet and hurling over a thirty 582 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 3: nine foot balcony. The child swams onto the tile below. 583 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 2: Miss Hofflan, I know that you were already out trying 584 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 2: to get in to that ambulance at the time. Standers 585 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 2: by grabbed this guy, tackled him and hailed him as 586 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 2: he tried to escape. So I want to go back 587 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 2: to your story, Carrie, what happened when you got to 588 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 2: the hospital. 589 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 7: When we get to the hospital, he goes right into 590 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 7: a life saving room where it's just a big empty room, 591 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 7: and you go in there and all the doctor they 592 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 7: told me this was a miracle. At all the doctors 593 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 7: that they needed to be there were there, the bone doctor, 594 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 7: the brain doctor, you know, the pickewed surgeon, everybody who 595 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 7: they needed to be there were there, and they wheeled 596 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 7: them into the room and they all started working on 597 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 7: his body immediately, five or six doctors all doing different 598 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 7: setting his bones, stopping the bleed, removing his spleen, and 599 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 7: I got to go right in there with him. I 600 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 7: couldn't see, so I stood up on a chair and 601 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 7: I just was praying that the God would use those 602 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 7: doctors to put him back together. And I was praying 603 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 7: out loud, which I don't normally do, and they let 604 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 7: me do that. At one point they did say, okay, 605 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 7: everybody quiet, because it was just chaos and they're trying 606 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 7: to stop all the major injuries. And they said, if 607 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 7: you don't need to be talking, please don't be talking. 608 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 7: But I considered myself need to be talking at that 609 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 7: time because I wanted landin to hear me and I 610 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 7: wanted him to fight to be alive, and so they 611 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 7: did let me. I wasn't doing it annoying or rude. 612 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 7: I was trying to let Land and hear me praying 613 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 7: to stay alive. And that's where we were. That's that 614 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 7: life saving room where they've just put them back together. 615 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 7: Then he goes across the hall to the MRI to 616 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 7: see the extent of his brain injury. So that's what 617 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 7: you do right when you get there. 618 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 2: After that initial response and as you call it, the 619 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 2: life saving room, what happened after that to Landon? 620 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 7: Then they rush him across the hall to give him 621 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 7: an MRI to see what extent he has of his 622 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,719 Speaker 7: brain injury, what are going to be the consequences, and 623 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 7: right from there they rush him upstairs to surgery where 624 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 7: they can do not just like saving surgery, just every 625 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 7: other surgery he's going to need, which was the entire 626 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 7: day of surgeries. 627 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 2: Guys, this is the beginning of a very long journey. 628 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 3: Listen Landed Hoffmann has surgeries for his broken arms, a 629 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 3: broken leg, and skull fractures, and his spleen was removed. 630 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 3: He remains in intensive care for four months. He undergoes 631 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:20,839 Speaker 3: more than a dozen surgeries and even broke his leg 632 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,360 Speaker 3: for a second time during his rehab while doctors and 633 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 3: nurses are trying to get him out of bed and walking. 634 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 3: The break reveals his ban a cava vain running to 635 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 3: his heart is barely hanging on. Had he tried to 636 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,000 Speaker 3: walk on it, he would have died. During his recovery. 637 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 3: A GoFundMe page is launched for medical. 638 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: Possible crime stores with Nancy Grace. 639 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 2: Miss Hoffin explained to me what happened when he tried 640 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:55,279 Speaker 2: to stand up. This is after over a dozen surgeries. 641 00:34:55,800 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 2: He even broke his leg for a second time during rehab. 642 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 2: But the break itself was a miracle of sorts because 643 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 2: it revealed his vena cava vein running to his heart 644 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 2: was barely hanging on and had he been able to walk, 645 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 2: they were trying to get him up and walking, he 646 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 2: would have died. 647 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,880 Speaker 7: Yes, we didn't know the Vina Keva parked until the 648 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 7: day till four months later. He probably broke his leg 649 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,319 Speaker 7: the second time two months in and we were in 650 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 7: there for four months and so after you know, six 651 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,919 Speaker 7: to eight weeks after your that's how long it takes 652 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 7: for a bone to heal. And he had broken it 653 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,839 Speaker 7: from the initial fall. After it was healed, that's where 654 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 7: he was able to stand up and do rehab to 655 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,839 Speaker 7: get it too, you know, strong again, and that's when 656 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:50,400 Speaker 7: he broke it a second time. He was on so 657 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,200 Speaker 7: much pain medicine and he didn't know standing up that 658 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 7: he was just so fragile and his body was working 659 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 7: so hard to heal everything else, I just think it 660 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 7: broke a second time. But at that when we found 661 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 7: that out, we were so devastated because we wanted to 662 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,319 Speaker 7: get out of bed. We were in bed for six 663 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 7: to eight weeks at that time, just feeling like, okay, 664 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,319 Speaker 7: can we just stand up? Can we move it all? 665 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:14,759 Speaker 7: We just couldn't because how fragile he was. And so 666 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 7: when we could finally stand up and then the learning 667 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,879 Speaker 7: broke it a second time, we were devastated. And that's 668 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 7: where I was asking God, why why do we have 669 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:24,400 Speaker 7: to stay in bed now another six to eight weeks? 670 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 7: Not only that, now he has to have a more 671 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 7: permanent cast. And so I could choose between an external 672 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,400 Speaker 7: fix stator where they take screws three screws or four 673 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 7: screws down his leg, take it from his skin and 674 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 7: drill it into his bone to hold it into place. 675 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,520 Speaker 7: I could do that, or I could do a hard 676 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 7: cast all the way from his foot all the way 677 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 7: up to his chest, and then he would really not 678 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 7: be able to move. Plus he couldn't get out of 679 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,319 Speaker 7: bed to use the bathroom, so he was I have 680 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,359 Speaker 7: to change him all the time, and having that big, long, 681 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,799 Speaker 7: that big hard cast from his foot to his chest 682 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 7: was not an option for me, so we went with 683 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 7: the external fix stator, which gave him more movement. But 684 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,800 Speaker 7: it was it was awful, It was painful, it was torture. 685 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 7: I hated that. We found out at the end of 686 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 7: our stay four months later that the vienna keeva was 687 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,879 Speaker 7: the main issue that the doctors could not figure out. 688 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,399 Speaker 7: It was closing to the size of a pinhole. And 689 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 7: that's when we learned good thing he broke his leg 690 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,320 Speaker 7: a second time because had he not, he would have 691 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:23,960 Speaker 7: been up walking around and that could have been devastating. 692 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,879 Speaker 7: And so I knew there was a reason we broke 693 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 7: the leg because I thought God did not take us 694 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,759 Speaker 7: through this miracle and keep him alive to go through 695 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,080 Speaker 7: even more pain like this, just petty pain. So I 696 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 7: knew there was a reason, but I didn't know why. 697 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:38,359 Speaker 7: And now I know why. 698 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 2: As we mentioned, the recovery has been such a long road. 699 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 8: Recovery is a long journey for the entire family. Gary 700 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:53,160 Speaker 8: watches yes her son's personality changes. Where Landon had always 701 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,320 Speaker 8: been a sweet and kind child, injury to the frontal 702 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 8: love of his brain causes his personality to shift, and 703 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 8: he became angry and mean. The injury causes his personality 704 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 8: to switch back to sweet and kind, only to change 705 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:06,959 Speaker 8: again to angry and mean. 706 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:13,400 Speaker 2: Carrie, I had a relative very close to me suffer 707 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:19,320 Speaker 2: a traumatic brain injury after a crash and their personality 708 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:27,920 Speaker 2: did change. Yeah, tell me what happened with Landa's personality change? 709 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,880 Speaker 7: You know, when I found out in the hospital halfway 710 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 7: through or whatever that this was going to be, I 711 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,880 Speaker 7: knew I was going to get him back walking and talking. 712 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,000 Speaker 7: I was going to have landed back. But they did 713 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,799 Speaker 7: tell me he will have a slight personality change, we 714 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 7: don't know the extent of it, and that he will 715 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 7: be more impulsive as he grows up, because that's what 716 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,799 Speaker 7: he injured, is his front alone. They also told me 717 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,360 Speaker 7: that it was a good thing. If you could injure 718 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,279 Speaker 7: any part of your brain, this is the part you 719 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,920 Speaker 7: would want to injure, because people brain surgeons can remove 720 00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 7: this part of your can still be alive and have 721 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 7: a good quality of life. And so at the time 722 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:03,880 Speaker 7: when they told me that, I didn't care that he 723 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 7: was going to have a different personality or be more impulsive. 724 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 7: I was going to get him back. I was just 725 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 7: so thankful. But everything they told me when we did 726 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,919 Speaker 7: get home and try to go to kindergarten two weeks 727 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,759 Speaker 7: after we get home from the hospital, is when I 728 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,080 Speaker 7: saw that he was in and out of being nice 729 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 7: and mean, and his eyes were like bulging out and 730 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:28,400 Speaker 7: then and then and then I would just have to 731 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 7: teach him land and we don't do that. This is 732 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:31,840 Speaker 7: not we don't act like that. He just had to 733 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,880 Speaker 7: learn all over how to be kind again. And six 734 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,160 Speaker 7: this we're now going on six years, and I do 735 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:42,480 Speaker 7: think Landin is totally back to the kid he was 736 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 7: supposed to be. He is loving life, he is so kind, 737 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:50,399 Speaker 7: so loving, loves people. He's back now, but it took 738 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,440 Speaker 7: a long time to learn that, and I would say 739 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,839 Speaker 7: at least three years of that in and out of mean. 740 00:39:55,360 --> 00:40:00,440 Speaker 1: I want you to hear Landing for yourself. 741 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 9: Lessens land Hi, they are one week but I. 742 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:29,800 Speaker 11: Yes, yes, now, a right, yes. 743 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:34,720 Speaker 2: That is Landing with a feeding tube in his nose, 744 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,000 Speaker 2: singing a beloved song. 745 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 1: Jesus loves me. This I know. And here is more 746 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:45,120 Speaker 1: from land. 747 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 12: My name is Landon. I'm nine years old. I'm the 748 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 12: guy that got thrown at the third story at Mall 749 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 12: of America And that was the part where God came 750 00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 12: in and helped as a miracle that I'm alive. God 751 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:02,480 Speaker 12: healed all the parts in my body. 752 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 6: I'm perfect. 753 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:11,239 Speaker 12: I would say that I want people to know my 754 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,120 Speaker 12: story because I want them to believe in God and 755 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:14,680 Speaker 12: go to heaven. 756 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:23,840 Speaker 2: That is a reference at Eagle Brook Church. That's amazing, Carrie, 757 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 2: that is amazing. Tell me about Landon now. 758 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,799 Speaker 7: He has a walking, talking miracle. He loves life. He 759 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:38,960 Speaker 7: does not This story is not something sad. He is 760 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 7: not scared of people. He's not scared to be in public. 761 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:47,000 Speaker 7: He knows that he is the boy that God used 762 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,440 Speaker 7: to show the world a miracle, and he is proud 763 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,280 Speaker 7: of it. And he will tell all of his friends, 764 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:54,239 Speaker 7: do you believe in God? I hope people believe in 765 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,719 Speaker 7: God because if you don't, you won't go to heaven 766 00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:58,160 Speaker 7: with me. And I want you to go to heaven. 767 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:00,520 Speaker 7: And if you don't believe, it happens me. I have 768 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,560 Speaker 7: all these scars and God saved me. And that's who 769 00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,239 Speaker 7: he is. He's just walking around showing everybody what a 770 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,239 Speaker 7: miracle he is. That is the power of God. That's 771 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,560 Speaker 7: who our God is today and Landon is living proof 772 00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:16,040 Speaker 7: that God is real, and he is powerful and he 773 00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:17,399 Speaker 7: listens when you call on him. 774 00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:19,120 Speaker 1: Here is more from Landon. 775 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,520 Speaker 2: When your friends ask you about what happened to you, 776 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:23,920 Speaker 2: what do you tell them. 777 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:29,160 Speaker 12: I tell him that it was me that got thrown 778 00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,480 Speaker 12: and they say really, and and I show them everything 779 00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:33,840 Speaker 12: on me. 780 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:38,480 Speaker 2: That from our friends at Good Morning America. You know, 781 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,920 Speaker 2: I just want to see Landon speaking one more time. 782 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:43,200 Speaker 1: Let's watch. 783 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:47,560 Speaker 12: My name is Landon and I'm nine years old. I'm 784 00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,040 Speaker 12: the guy that got thrown the third story at the 785 00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,959 Speaker 12: Mall of America. And that was the part where God 786 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,040 Speaker 12: came in and helped. There's a miracle that I'm alive. 787 00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,640 Speaker 12: God healed all the my book. 788 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:02,759 Speaker 6: I'm perfect. 789 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:09,440 Speaker 12: I would say that I want people to know my 790 00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,279 Speaker 12: story because I want them to believe in God and 791 00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:12,880 Speaker 12: go to heaven. 792 00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:20,400 Speaker 2: This is a miracle from our friends at Eagle Brook Church. 793 00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:24,080 Speaker 1: Carrie, you told me earlier. 794 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:30,919 Speaker 2: Off air that you felt Christ with you particularly at 795 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:32,280 Speaker 2: one moment. 796 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:33,600 Speaker 1: Could you describe that. 797 00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,120 Speaker 7: Just when I was in that hospital room, I was 798 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,960 Speaker 7: held in a perfect peace the entire time. I mean 799 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:46,319 Speaker 7: I intentionally didn't have TV on or outside noise of 800 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,759 Speaker 7: the world. I asked people not to tell me what 801 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,520 Speaker 7: was going on out there, because I wanted to be 802 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:56,360 Speaker 7: close to God, and I was honestly held at perfect 803 00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:59,439 Speaker 7: peace that entire four months. I knew he was there, 804 00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:03,320 Speaker 7: I felt him there. It was just I was never scared. 805 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,879 Speaker 7: Doctors were coming in and out, and some of them 806 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,480 Speaker 7: would be maybe throwing telling me to throw in the towel. 807 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,000 Speaker 7: I even had one told me I can't maintain this 808 00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:16,920 Speaker 7: warrior status forever. But I did not waiver. I felt 809 00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,400 Speaker 7: God's presence in that hospital room the entire four months, 810 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,239 Speaker 7: and he kept me in that perfect peace, and I 811 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:24,880 Speaker 7: felt Landon was going to be okay, and he was 812 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,200 Speaker 7: never going to die, in my opinion. 813 00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:33,399 Speaker 2: An incredible story of a miracle. Carrie describes it all 814 00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:38,600 Speaker 2: in her book Miracle at the Mall. Carrie, thank you 815 00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,400 Speaker 2: for telling us your story, land and story and giving 816 00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:44,400 Speaker 2: us your witness. 817 00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:46,719 Speaker 7: Thank you so much for having me on the show. 818 00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:48,719 Speaker 7: I so appreciate being a part of this. 819 00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,400 Speaker 2: We remember an American hero, Deputy share of Sidney Carter, 820 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:56,800 Speaker 2: killed in a line of duty, survived by her parents. 821 00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:03,560 Speaker 2: Grieving parents Annette and Jerry, American hero Sheriff Sydney Carter. 822 00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:09,480 Speaker 2: Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,